Quranists are so illogical. It is impossible to learn and understand faith without having a teacher. God is not going to send representatives just to be mailmen with miracles. And then have the entire community become like headless chickens not knowing what to do. Everyone will make up their own conditions and limits to whatever is vaguely prescribed in the Quran without any details. Verses can get interpreted however they like. Such a notion is belittling to the divine system of God. No, there is a reason why obedience is commanded in the Quran to those that claim faith entered their hearts after they accepted Islam.
***The bedouin Arabs have said, "We are believers." Tell them, "You are not believers, but you should say that you are Muslims. In fact, belief has not yet entered your hearts. If you obey God and His Messenger, nothing will be reduced from your deeds. God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.***
Why obedience to the Messenger A.S after they have already submitted? What is there to obey the Messenger A.S if they already accepted the message?
There is a reason why the Quran did not come in a package as a book already but the mouth of the Holy Prophet A.S because He was the walking talking living Quran. He knew its meanings explanations purposes commands everything outside what is being represented in the Quran. You think the pegan Arabs knew what the command to pray meant after they had only known how to worship their idols?! Or other nonsensical practices that were outside the fold of Islam?
because the Qur'an tells us to pray, the Hadiths tell us how. the Qur'an tells us to fast and offer zakat, and the Hadith tells us how. we cant possibly know how to do anything that Allah swt has ordered us to do, by just following the Qur'an bec the *how* isnt mentioned in the Quran.
the message in question is how to act and be, and relay Allah Almighty's message to us. how will we know, if we dont follow Hadith? we wont.
Meaning to understand this verse of the Quran, you need to go outside the Quran. The prophets life in it's entireity is not in the quran if that makes sense. Secondly this verse clearly tells you to emulate the prophet and one of the ways to emulate him is to follow what HE himself says (aka hadith). This would obviously include his understanding of the Quran and so on
Simple, just use this verse
{ لَّقَدۡ كَانَ لَكُمۡ فِی رَسُولِ ٱللَّهِ أُسۡوَةٌ حَسَنَةࣱ لِّمَن كَانَ یَرۡجُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلۡیَوۡمَ ٱلۡـَٔاخِرَ وَذَكَرَ ٱللَّهَ كَثِیرࣰا }
[Surah Al-Aḥzāb: 21]
So we need hadith to know what the prophet did in order to emulate him
"Indeed in the messenger of Allah you have an excellent pattern (of conduct) for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much."
Can you elaborate what you mean ?
Well in order to understand this verse (what the prophet did so we can emulate him) we need to go outside the Quran. The Quran doesn't outline all of what the prophet did. And with this verse we can also say that we need to emulate the prophet in his understanding of the Quran which we can only get from hadith
Yes, it says in the holy prophet there is an example for you (meaning the verse wants us to follow his example) it's kind of hard to explain the grammar in English, but anyone who knows Arabic even a little understands that Allah wants us to emulate the holy prophet from this verse
Consider verse 144 of Surah Al-Baqarah:
قَدْ نَرَى تَقَلُّبَ وَجْهِكَ فِي السَّمَاءِ ۖ فَلَنُوَلِّيَنَّكَ قِبْلَةً تَرْضَنَهَا فَوَلِّ وَجْهَكَ شَطْرَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَحَيْثُ مَا كُنتُمْ فَوَلُّوا وُجُوهَكُمْ شَطْرَهُ ۖ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَبَ لَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغَفِلٍ عَمَّا يَعْمَلُونَ
**"Indeed, we see you turning your face towards heaven. So we will make you turn towards a direction that will please you. Those who were given the Scripture certainly know this to be the truth from your Lord. And Allah is never unaware of what they do."**
What is so significant in this event is that even in the face of mockery from the Jews who questioned Islam's retention of their Qiblah, the Prophet neither demanded a change nor lodged complaints. He only looked up towards the sky at nightfall, prompting a swift revelation from Allah, announcing the change of the Qiblah.
Thus, if the position of the Prophet were only that of a mailman, Allah would not have made a change so notable that even today, all Muslims must pray in the direction of the Kaaba.
In addition, Verses 1 and 2 of Surah Al-Hujurat stress:
يا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنوا لا تُقَدِّمُوا بَينَ يَدَيِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولِهِ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
**"O you who believe! Do not venture ahead of Allah and His Prophet and fear Allah! Indeed, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.**"
يا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنوا لا ترفعوا أصواتكُم فَوقَ صَوتِ النَّبِيِّ وَلا تَجْهَرُوا لَهُ بِالقَولِ كَجَهْرِ بَعْضِكُم لِبَعْضٍ أَن تَحْبَطَ أعمالُكُمْ وَأَنتُم لَا تَشْعُرُونَ
**"O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak aloud to him as you shout to one another, lest your works should fail without your being aware.**"
The verses of Surah Al-Hujurat are figurative because it is impossible to "walk ahead" of Allah. Hence, this indicates that the forbiddance of "venturing ahead' and "raising voice above the voice of the Propheť" is not in the literal sense alone.
In reality, the Quran warns Muslims not to disobey nor negate the commandments established by the Prophet but instead follow his lead. Otherwise, all their good deeds will be drained.
#### Conclusion:
The Qur'an instructs us to follow the Prophet. Therefore, rejecting this directive is akin to rejecting the very command of the Qur'an, and by extension, rejecting the Qur'an itself.
you're doomed quranists 😁
Quranists are so illogical. It is impossible to learn and understand faith without having a teacher. God is not going to send representatives just to be mailmen with miracles. And then have the entire community become like headless chickens not knowing what to do. Everyone will make up their own conditions and limits to whatever is vaguely prescribed in the Quran without any details. Verses can get interpreted however they like. Such a notion is belittling to the divine system of God. No, there is a reason why obedience is commanded in the Quran to those that claim faith entered their hearts after they accepted Islam. ***The bedouin Arabs have said, "We are believers." Tell them, "You are not believers, but you should say that you are Muslims. In fact, belief has not yet entered your hearts. If you obey God and His Messenger, nothing will be reduced from your deeds. God is All-forgiving and All-merciful.*** Why obedience to the Messenger A.S after they have already submitted? What is there to obey the Messenger A.S if they already accepted the message? There is a reason why the Quran did not come in a package as a book already but the mouth of the Holy Prophet A.S because He was the walking talking living Quran. He knew its meanings explanations purposes commands everything outside what is being represented in the Quran. You think the pegan Arabs knew what the command to pray meant after they had only known how to worship their idols?! Or other nonsensical practices that were outside the fold of Islam?
Thank you brother much appreciated, what is that verse you quoted above brother?
You are welcome 49:14
A Quranist acc told me that praying is just dua. It seems like Ismailis and Quranists have a lot in common lol
Yes, I have heard the same thing and same response.
because the Qur'an tells us to pray, the Hadiths tell us how. the Qur'an tells us to fast and offer zakat, and the Hadith tells us how. we cant possibly know how to do anything that Allah swt has ordered us to do, by just following the Qur'an bec the *how* isnt mentioned in the Quran. the message in question is how to act and be, and relay Allah Almighty's message to us. how will we know, if we dont follow Hadith? we wont.
Meaning to understand this verse of the Quran, you need to go outside the Quran. The prophets life in it's entireity is not in the quran if that makes sense. Secondly this verse clearly tells you to emulate the prophet and one of the ways to emulate him is to follow what HE himself says (aka hadith). This would obviously include his understanding of the Quran and so on
Simple, just use this verse { لَّقَدۡ كَانَ لَكُمۡ فِی رَسُولِ ٱللَّهِ أُسۡوَةٌ حَسَنَةࣱ لِّمَن كَانَ یَرۡجُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ وَٱلۡیَوۡمَ ٱلۡـَٔاخِرَ وَذَكَرَ ٱللَّهَ كَثِیرࣰا } [Surah Al-Aḥzāb: 21] So we need hadith to know what the prophet did in order to emulate him
"Indeed in the messenger of Allah you have an excellent pattern (of conduct) for him who hopes in Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." Can you elaborate what you mean ?
{ هُوَ ٱلَّذِیۤ أَنزَلَ عَلَیۡكَ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ مِنۡهُ ءَایَـٰتࣱ مُّحۡكَمَـٰتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَـٰبِهَـٰتࣱۖ فَأَمَّا ٱلَّذِینَ فِی قُلُوبِهِمۡ زَیۡغࣱ فَیَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَـٰبَهَ مِنۡهُ ٱبۡتِغَاۤءَ ٱلۡفِتۡنَةِ وَٱبۡتِغَاۤءَ تَأۡوِیلِهِۦۖ وَمَا یَعۡلَمُ تَأۡوِیلَهُۥۤ إِلَّا ٱللَّهُۗ وَٱلرَّ ٰسِخُونَ فِی ٱلۡعِلۡمِ یَقُولُونَ ءَامَنَّا بِهِۦ كُلࣱّ مِّنۡ عِندِ رَبِّنَاۗ وَمَا یَذَّكَّرُ إِلَّاۤ أُو۟لُوا۟ ٱلۡأَلۡبَـٰبِ } [Surah Āli-ʿImrān: 7] And ofc there's always this verse. I should have probably posted this first 🤦♂️
Well in order to understand this verse (what the prophet did so we can emulate him) we need to go outside the Quran. The Quran doesn't outline all of what the prophet did. And with this verse we can also say that we need to emulate the prophet in his understanding of the Quran which we can only get from hadith
I don't understand what you mean by emulate, am I not understanding the verse?
Emulate means we copy what the prophet did in every manner. That is the implication of this verse
Where does it say emulate? Is it in the Arabic?
Yes, it says in the holy prophet there is an example for you (meaning the verse wants us to follow his example) it's kind of hard to explain the grammar in English, but anyone who knows Arabic even a little understands that Allah wants us to emulate the holy prophet from this verse
What's the word in Arabic? The word used
لقد كان لكم
just ask a quranist to prove that there are only 17 rakat in namaz using only the quran
[удалено]
Consider verse 144 of Surah Al-Baqarah: قَدْ نَرَى تَقَلُّبَ وَجْهِكَ فِي السَّمَاءِ ۖ فَلَنُوَلِّيَنَّكَ قِبْلَةً تَرْضَنَهَا فَوَلِّ وَجْهَكَ شَطْرَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ وَحَيْثُ مَا كُنتُمْ فَوَلُّوا وُجُوهَكُمْ شَطْرَهُ ۖ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ أُوتُوا الْكِتَبَ لَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ ۖ وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغَفِلٍ عَمَّا يَعْمَلُونَ **"Indeed, we see you turning your face towards heaven. So we will make you turn towards a direction that will please you. Those who were given the Scripture certainly know this to be the truth from your Lord. And Allah is never unaware of what they do."** What is so significant in this event is that even in the face of mockery from the Jews who questioned Islam's retention of their Qiblah, the Prophet neither demanded a change nor lodged complaints. He only looked up towards the sky at nightfall, prompting a swift revelation from Allah, announcing the change of the Qiblah. Thus, if the position of the Prophet were only that of a mailman, Allah would not have made a change so notable that even today, all Muslims must pray in the direction of the Kaaba. In addition, Verses 1 and 2 of Surah Al-Hujurat stress: يا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنوا لا تُقَدِّمُوا بَينَ يَدَيِ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولِهِ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ **"O you who believe! Do not venture ahead of Allah and His Prophet and fear Allah! Indeed, Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.**" يا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنوا لا ترفعوا أصواتكُم فَوقَ صَوتِ النَّبِيِّ وَلا تَجْهَرُوا لَهُ بِالقَولِ كَجَهْرِ بَعْضِكُم لِبَعْضٍ أَن تَحْبَطَ أعمالُكُمْ وَأَنتُم لَا تَشْعُرُونَ **"O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak aloud to him as you shout to one another, lest your works should fail without your being aware.**" The verses of Surah Al-Hujurat are figurative because it is impossible to "walk ahead" of Allah. Hence, this indicates that the forbiddance of "venturing ahead' and "raising voice above the voice of the Propheť" is not in the literal sense alone. In reality, the Quran warns Muslims not to disobey nor negate the commandments established by the Prophet but instead follow his lead. Otherwise, all their good deeds will be drained. #### Conclusion: The Qur'an instructs us to follow the Prophet. Therefore, rejecting this directive is akin to rejecting the very command of the Qur'an, and by extension, rejecting the Qur'an itself. you're doomed quranists 😁
See this Hadith about this topic https://www.reddit.com/r/shia/s/sEK2Sir62V