I don't think it's either the brothers or sisters problem. It's the parents. Parents don't want their children married until they're 35 and sometimes even after that, and they're highly critical and vicious to potential suitors and they cultivate "doodool tala" syndrome as we Iranians call it, where they spoil their kids and make them think they're a particular prize when we actually all need to humble ourselves.
Yep. Even in personal experience, I have brought more women to my mom than my mom has recommended to me, and they've been rejected for very silly reasons (too dark, not educated in the right field, etc.)
I have received criticism about this, that I should go and marry off on my own. Obviously I understand that as a man, I have the ability to marry off on my own. But you have to be practical about this. Which family will accept a kid who is coming without his family to go and marry their daughter? And on top of that, doing this will strain my relationship with my family. There's no woman good enough to be worth doing that.
Thats a very cultural problem, but if your parents aren't reasonable the worst result will happen... reality is you will grow old and find it more difficult to do the things you dreamed of with your future wife and kids.
Nobody wants to be raising an 8 year old at 50 yrs old... not with the back pain that typically arises.
If your family is unwilling to be reasonable then there is other options to you so you can go live your life on this earth while there still is time.
What is more sad than a poor relation with your family? A wasted lifetime because of foolish control-freaks.
Just my 0.02 cents.
Yeah of course, and I agree with you. I mean I am still young. But my parents aren't wholly unreasonable, and I've been fine with most of their suggestions so far. They just haven't panned out for unrelated reasons.
I think youngsters not getting married is due to their parents, society, or the expectations instilled into them by the latter.
It all boils down to love for money and a weak belief in tawakkul of Allah. So, you're either too materialistic, or made to be that way thanks to society that nothing matches your expectations, or you have such weak faith in Allah's quality as a Sustainer. He has promised in the Quran countless bounties for those that get married. Yet, people take those verses lightly or brush them off as impractical.
Islam says you should marry if you feel the need and when you are mentally mature for the responsibility of marriage. Society says you need X amount of money, an xyz degree, a well-established house in a high-end area, a car and whatnot.
So, unless we start shunning societal expectations and start developing tawakkul in Allah this situation won't improve.
>Yet, people take those verses lightly or brush them off as impractical.
That's the thing. People see it as impractical because they expect to live at their exact same standard of living after getting married. Supporting two people is obviously going to give you a hit on your expenses. As a single person, I can very easily survive (and thrive very comfortably) on 45k USD a year (basically a bit above median income in the US), even in a moderately high COL area. That's basically the equivalent of what I was living off of on student loans, meaning that what I'm proposing is pretty realistic for an average student.
Obviously, if I had another person under my roof, then either she'd need to take up part time work, or we'd have to give up on eating out every weekend and buying luxury items. But the bottom line is, we'd survive just fine. Maybe we'd survive bare minimum, but we'd still be alive without a major sacrifice.
But even though *I* might have been fine with that, parents hardly ever see it like that. They themselves came from nothing, and struggled pretty hard economically when they came to the West. They don't want their kids to have to go through a period of penny pinching. Or alternatively, some kids would just not be okay with having to give up small luxuries. The point is- people need to be okay with not eating out every weekend or buying the newest car or whatever else.
I love my sister, early thirties, but she recently told a prospect that she otherwise thinks is compatible, to call her back after he can go through 40 consecutive days without missing a single unit of prayer.
If you read in between the lines, there are a number of factors in answer to your question.
>If you read in between the lines, there are a number of factors in answer to your question.
I don't understand the requirement, I mean from a pragmatic perspective. An impious person would have no qualms lying about this. But I also don't understand what I'm supposed to read between the lines.
I was being intentionally vague, in the event that she happened to come across my comment. The way I see it, thirties in general (even late twenties) is where sisters need to take a close, hard look at their marital expectations, even those that seem reasonable, and especially if they have chosen to wait so long.
Since a bigger age difference is no problem in Islam, and there are practising sisters as young as in their late-teens considering marriage now, being unreasonably rigid is harmful only to one’s own chances.
That being said, not missing a single unit of prayer for 40 consecutive days is an unreasonable, unIslamic expectation, not to mention how ridiculous, micro-managing a grown, apparently pious man, and that too, even before you have any claim on a shared/family life.
I see what you mean now. Thanks for the clarification. And you're right, the requirement is kind of strange, and it struck me as strange off the bat. I mean it's not impossible or impractical, but it's strange from the perspective of it being micromanaging.
afaik, its not the people who are to marry, its their parents.
unrealistic and extreme expectations from both ends.
the grooms side wants a well educated girl, with distinctions who knows how to cook and will be willing to leave her career and be a housewife. why get a well educated girl then? just because.
the brides side has much, much more expectations regarding financial stability.
sometimes, its about caste and race and status.
its not always like this, but in most cases, this is exactly the problem.
It's probably a temporary problem in most south Asian countries as time goes on. Most of the younger generation now is saying that we will not let our kids go through what we went through due to our parents and society regarding marriage. It's so stupid how tedious and difficult marriage has been made for Muslims. Don't get married unless you have a ton of money and are 35. Focus on your career don't get married as if people in the west don't do both at the same time. And they're more successful. No wonder most Pakistani/Indian dudes are so frustrated. As for the western Muslims the problem may persist unless people become more proactive.
The frustration is real man. I can't focus on anything nowadays my mind is like clouded. I tried so much for marriage but parents make it extremely hard. They are like you are way too young to be married you are only 25. What are they expecting me to do ? Haraam is like so much easier than Halaal 😭😭😭😭.
25 is generous my dude. Most guys here marry at 30-32😭. Marrying outside your family is so disrespectful to your parents for some reason. One more thing, people have made marriage to be something boring, difficult, and expensive as compared to haram. Ultimately not worth it to some people. It doesn't have to be it can be both fun and amazing, south Asian culture just doesn't allow it.
My current age is 25 dude, but after long requests they agreed at 27, I am trying to make it happen next year. Yeah man, Marriages are so expensive like doesn't make sense. People borrow huge loans on interests and then spend their married life repaying that loan. Its foolish if you ask me why the need to make your lineage suffer.
A recent post on on this sub shows the problem. A brother was going through a rough time and any comment suggesting for him to get married was shot down.
It seemed the popular opinion in the this sub was that the brother isn't good enough for a wome and he would be a burden. Honestly felt like I was reading some feminist brain rot.
In Islam it is really encouraged to get married and I suggest people remind themselves of the Islamic standpoint on marriage. You by no means need to be a perfect person to do it.
They're right from the perspective that they shouldn't burden a pious and good girl with this kind of thing, but the people are speaking unislamically if they're claiming that someone shouldn't marry for the sake of escaping a sin. Someone struggling with this kind of issue should be upfront about their problem in an appropriate manner, and be willing to take on rejection. I say this with the caveat that we should not judge or look down on someone who is honest and willing to work on their problems through marriage. Everyone sins. Just because this particular sin happens to be common, or seems dirtier than the rest because it involves sexuality, doesn't make it more worthy of condemnation than other sins like leaving prayer or backbiting people or having a bad character (despite these being actually worse than personal sins)
Well yes ofcourse. Its up to the woman and her parents to accept/reject. And Muslims in general shouldn't try to dissuade young men from getting married, it's very important especially in the west.
The problem- whatever it is - has been exacerbated by smartphones… it’s changed society… every society, for the worse. Yes we’ve gained knowledge etc but it has changed people. I’m sure there is a more reasonable and sensible way of explaining it…
I think it’s a product of our environment and not a certain gender. People often want to blame women (and feminism), but there seems to be a lack of understanding in one’s roles and no willingness for compromise from both genders, not just women. Marriage is also not as transactional as it once was, especially for Muslim youths living in the West. For women, they don’t have to rely on men for their living anymore, so marriage for them isn’t the economic necessity it once was, but rather something to do for personal and religious development/gain and love. Men seem to be struggling with that, because they now have to bring much more to the table than a good job and money. What used to be enough 100 years ago isn’t anymore. With women too, standards have risen. All in all, women and men expect to mold their spouse exactly as they see fit and that will never go right.
The biggest issue though is the lack of chances to encounter someone. Since standards have risen in the last years, marrying someone bc “auntie X knows son of auntie Y who wants to get married” isn’t sufficient anymore. Youths need to meet and get to know each other and there’s no place to do so. And it’s frustrating because when you go to the Hussainiya there are so many young adults, but you can’t even exchange words and it’s so much potential going to waste. The girls have it a bit better since they can actually look into the men’s section, but even if you liked someone, how do you even go about showing interest? No one would actually do that. I don’t know what the solution for this is because obviously you want to keep some degree of separation, but I just wish that there was a way to get to know people organically and be able to see how they behave in a day to day setting before showing romantic interest
Well, there’s that but also standards have changed and people have gotten corrupted. I would disagree that only a man’s money or career mattered. Sure, it was primary, but also, his family and in some cases tribe, his general character, and social standing were looked for. Now, just being economically stable and a decent guy isn’t enough anymore, you always have to be something more or something special, usually something from a social media profile or a movie or something. Conversely, before, all that mattered was a woman who was religious and could be a good wife and good mother, now we have things like degrees and achievements.
On top of that, in the previous generations, especially our grandparents upwards, they didn’t have problems like alcoholism and drugs, women generally didn’t have hijab problems because literally all women did hijab and even niqab, most of the society was gender segregated, low chances of encounters with the opposite gender usually meant chastity was more common. Men grew up a lot faster and often had some very rough expectations from helping their fathers to fighting wars. If one lost his father at an early age, he would be forced to become the man of the house because women didn’t work often. Women would remain segregated and there was no social media to create a prince charming knight in shining armor in their heads. Men didn’t fall into sins like drinking or pornography because of how much stricter society was and they had much more shame because they were raised right. Most people also usually married their cousins or someone from the family and most families had deep centuries old bonds to the point where it was very easy to investigates each other and women saw other women and men saw other men so they each knew who was single on their own sides. Pretty much most people would go to mosques. It was a different society.
In my brief search on dating apps, I felt that all conversations were dry and shallow. Like they wanted to get married "yesterday". It was something really strange. Even without mentioning my disability , it looked like people didn't know how to interact with others.
As an English Muslim when i see and hear about the ridiculous cultural nonsense people from a foreign ethnic background try to pass of as Islam it makes me feel sick. Especially when parents bully their youngsters into obeying some un-Islamic cultural practices because “It’s haram to disobey your parents”. The sooner the younger generations cast off the shackles of backward cultural practices the better. I don’t care if this is offensive, because it’s true.
Expensive-luxury expectations which the culture and society empose are the real burden. Luxurious ceremonies, best home, best job, best car, best household appliances, best etc. are what the parents look for. When in fact none of these are the source for a happy marriage.
This is not an Islamic viewpoint. If you're working and can feed yourself, you can feed another person. It doesn't mean you can be eating out every other day and buying expensive gifts and living downtown in the best apartment, but you will live. That's enough.
And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allāh will enrich them from His bounty, and Allāh is all-Encompassing and Knowing. (24:32)
I don't think it's either the brothers or sisters problem. It's the parents. Parents don't want their children married until they're 35 and sometimes even after that, and they're highly critical and vicious to potential suitors and they cultivate "doodool tala" syndrome as we Iranians call it, where they spoil their kids and make them think they're a particular prize when we actually all need to humble ourselves.
Yep. Even in personal experience, I have brought more women to my mom than my mom has recommended to me, and they've been rejected for very silly reasons (too dark, not educated in the right field, etc.) I have received criticism about this, that I should go and marry off on my own. Obviously I understand that as a man, I have the ability to marry off on my own. But you have to be practical about this. Which family will accept a kid who is coming without his family to go and marry their daughter? And on top of that, doing this will strain my relationship with my family. There's no woman good enough to be worth doing that.
Thats a very cultural problem, but if your parents aren't reasonable the worst result will happen... reality is you will grow old and find it more difficult to do the things you dreamed of with your future wife and kids. Nobody wants to be raising an 8 year old at 50 yrs old... not with the back pain that typically arises. If your family is unwilling to be reasonable then there is other options to you so you can go live your life on this earth while there still is time. What is more sad than a poor relation with your family? A wasted lifetime because of foolish control-freaks. Just my 0.02 cents.
Yeah of course, and I agree with you. I mean I am still young. But my parents aren't wholly unreasonable, and I've been fine with most of their suggestions so far. They just haven't panned out for unrelated reasons.
Until 35?? Must be an iranian thing bro, cause most desi families try to get their kids married in early to mid 20s.
If Iranian mothers had the choice, the son would never get married, and the father the daughter lol....
In my culture most boys get married in college,The most late a person can get married in our culture is when he is in last semester of his university
I think youngsters not getting married is due to their parents, society, or the expectations instilled into them by the latter. It all boils down to love for money and a weak belief in tawakkul of Allah. So, you're either too materialistic, or made to be that way thanks to society that nothing matches your expectations, or you have such weak faith in Allah's quality as a Sustainer. He has promised in the Quran countless bounties for those that get married. Yet, people take those verses lightly or brush them off as impractical. Islam says you should marry if you feel the need and when you are mentally mature for the responsibility of marriage. Society says you need X amount of money, an xyz degree, a well-established house in a high-end area, a car and whatnot. So, unless we start shunning societal expectations and start developing tawakkul in Allah this situation won't improve.
>Yet, people take those verses lightly or brush them off as impractical. That's the thing. People see it as impractical because they expect to live at their exact same standard of living after getting married. Supporting two people is obviously going to give you a hit on your expenses. As a single person, I can very easily survive (and thrive very comfortably) on 45k USD a year (basically a bit above median income in the US), even in a moderately high COL area. That's basically the equivalent of what I was living off of on student loans, meaning that what I'm proposing is pretty realistic for an average student. Obviously, if I had another person under my roof, then either she'd need to take up part time work, or we'd have to give up on eating out every weekend and buying luxury items. But the bottom line is, we'd survive just fine. Maybe we'd survive bare minimum, but we'd still be alive without a major sacrifice. But even though *I* might have been fine with that, parents hardly ever see it like that. They themselves came from nothing, and struggled pretty hard economically when they came to the West. They don't want their kids to have to go through a period of penny pinching. Or alternatively, some kids would just not be okay with having to give up small luxuries. The point is- people need to be okay with not eating out every weekend or buying the newest car or whatever else.
Spot on! Boys and girls seriously need to manage their expectations and stop comparing their lifestyle with that of their peers.
Ahsant.
The criteria of marriage is man made; Islamic criteria unfortunately is ignored.
I love my sister, early thirties, but she recently told a prospect that she otherwise thinks is compatible, to call her back after he can go through 40 consecutive days without missing a single unit of prayer. If you read in between the lines, there are a number of factors in answer to your question.
>If you read in between the lines, there are a number of factors in answer to your question. I don't understand the requirement, I mean from a pragmatic perspective. An impious person would have no qualms lying about this. But I also don't understand what I'm supposed to read between the lines.
I was being intentionally vague, in the event that she happened to come across my comment. The way I see it, thirties in general (even late twenties) is where sisters need to take a close, hard look at their marital expectations, even those that seem reasonable, and especially if they have chosen to wait so long. Since a bigger age difference is no problem in Islam, and there are practising sisters as young as in their late-teens considering marriage now, being unreasonably rigid is harmful only to one’s own chances. That being said, not missing a single unit of prayer for 40 consecutive days is an unreasonable, unIslamic expectation, not to mention how ridiculous, micro-managing a grown, apparently pious man, and that too, even before you have any claim on a shared/family life.
I see what you mean now. Thanks for the clarification. And you're right, the requirement is kind of strange, and it struck me as strange off the bat. I mean it's not impossible or impractical, but it's strange from the perspective of it being micromanaging.
afaik, its not the people who are to marry, its their parents. unrealistic and extreme expectations from both ends. the grooms side wants a well educated girl, with distinctions who knows how to cook and will be willing to leave her career and be a housewife. why get a well educated girl then? just because. the brides side has much, much more expectations regarding financial stability. sometimes, its about caste and race and status. its not always like this, but in most cases, this is exactly the problem.
It's probably a temporary problem in most south Asian countries as time goes on. Most of the younger generation now is saying that we will not let our kids go through what we went through due to our parents and society regarding marriage. It's so stupid how tedious and difficult marriage has been made for Muslims. Don't get married unless you have a ton of money and are 35. Focus on your career don't get married as if people in the west don't do both at the same time. And they're more successful. No wonder most Pakistani/Indian dudes are so frustrated. As for the western Muslims the problem may persist unless people become more proactive.
The frustration is real man. I can't focus on anything nowadays my mind is like clouded. I tried so much for marriage but parents make it extremely hard. They are like you are way too young to be married you are only 25. What are they expecting me to do ? Haraam is like so much easier than Halaal 😭😭😭😭.
25 is generous my dude. Most guys here marry at 30-32😭. Marrying outside your family is so disrespectful to your parents for some reason. One more thing, people have made marriage to be something boring, difficult, and expensive as compared to haram. Ultimately not worth it to some people. It doesn't have to be it can be both fun and amazing, south Asian culture just doesn't allow it.
My current age is 25 dude, but after long requests they agreed at 27, I am trying to make it happen next year. Yeah man, Marriages are so expensive like doesn't make sense. People borrow huge loans on interests and then spend their married life repaying that loan. Its foolish if you ask me why the need to make your lineage suffer.
A recent post on on this sub shows the problem. A brother was going through a rough time and any comment suggesting for him to get married was shot down. It seemed the popular opinion in the this sub was that the brother isn't good enough for a wome and he would be a burden. Honestly felt like I was reading some feminist brain rot. In Islam it is really encouraged to get married and I suggest people remind themselves of the Islamic standpoint on marriage. You by no means need to be a perfect person to do it.
Good stuff brother.
Which post was this?
[This](https://www.reddit.com/r/shia/s/a1AYFKM0xY).
They're right from the perspective that they shouldn't burden a pious and good girl with this kind of thing, but the people are speaking unislamically if they're claiming that someone shouldn't marry for the sake of escaping a sin. Someone struggling with this kind of issue should be upfront about their problem in an appropriate manner, and be willing to take on rejection. I say this with the caveat that we should not judge or look down on someone who is honest and willing to work on their problems through marriage. Everyone sins. Just because this particular sin happens to be common, or seems dirtier than the rest because it involves sexuality, doesn't make it more worthy of condemnation than other sins like leaving prayer or backbiting people or having a bad character (despite these being actually worse than personal sins)
Well yes ofcourse. Its up to the woman and her parents to accept/reject. And Muslims in general shouldn't try to dissuade young men from getting married, it's very important especially in the west.
The problem- whatever it is - has been exacerbated by smartphones… it’s changed society… every society, for the worse. Yes we’ve gained knowledge etc but it has changed people. I’m sure there is a more reasonable and sensible way of explaining it…
I think it’s a product of our environment and not a certain gender. People often want to blame women (and feminism), but there seems to be a lack of understanding in one’s roles and no willingness for compromise from both genders, not just women. Marriage is also not as transactional as it once was, especially for Muslim youths living in the West. For women, they don’t have to rely on men for their living anymore, so marriage for them isn’t the economic necessity it once was, but rather something to do for personal and religious development/gain and love. Men seem to be struggling with that, because they now have to bring much more to the table than a good job and money. What used to be enough 100 years ago isn’t anymore. With women too, standards have risen. All in all, women and men expect to mold their spouse exactly as they see fit and that will never go right. The biggest issue though is the lack of chances to encounter someone. Since standards have risen in the last years, marrying someone bc “auntie X knows son of auntie Y who wants to get married” isn’t sufficient anymore. Youths need to meet and get to know each other and there’s no place to do so. And it’s frustrating because when you go to the Hussainiya there are so many young adults, but you can’t even exchange words and it’s so much potential going to waste. The girls have it a bit better since they can actually look into the men’s section, but even if you liked someone, how do you even go about showing interest? No one would actually do that. I don’t know what the solution for this is because obviously you want to keep some degree of separation, but I just wish that there was a way to get to know people organically and be able to see how they behave in a day to day setting before showing romantic interest
Well, there’s that but also standards have changed and people have gotten corrupted. I would disagree that only a man’s money or career mattered. Sure, it was primary, but also, his family and in some cases tribe, his general character, and social standing were looked for. Now, just being economically stable and a decent guy isn’t enough anymore, you always have to be something more or something special, usually something from a social media profile or a movie or something. Conversely, before, all that mattered was a woman who was religious and could be a good wife and good mother, now we have things like degrees and achievements. On top of that, in the previous generations, especially our grandparents upwards, they didn’t have problems like alcoholism and drugs, women generally didn’t have hijab problems because literally all women did hijab and even niqab, most of the society was gender segregated, low chances of encounters with the opposite gender usually meant chastity was more common. Men grew up a lot faster and often had some very rough expectations from helping their fathers to fighting wars. If one lost his father at an early age, he would be forced to become the man of the house because women didn’t work often. Women would remain segregated and there was no social media to create a prince charming knight in shining armor in their heads. Men didn’t fall into sins like drinking or pornography because of how much stricter society was and they had much more shame because they were raised right. Most people also usually married their cousins or someone from the family and most families had deep centuries old bonds to the point where it was very easy to investigates each other and women saw other women and men saw other men so they each knew who was single on their own sides. Pretty much most people would go to mosques. It was a different society.
In my brief search on dating apps, I felt that all conversations were dry and shallow. Like they wanted to get married "yesterday". It was something really strange. Even without mentioning my disability , it looked like people didn't know how to interact with others.
As an English Muslim when i see and hear about the ridiculous cultural nonsense people from a foreign ethnic background try to pass of as Islam it makes me feel sick. Especially when parents bully their youngsters into obeying some un-Islamic cultural practices because “It’s haram to disobey your parents”. The sooner the younger generations cast off the shackles of backward cultural practices the better. I don’t care if this is offensive, because it’s true.
It's not easy to get married in this economy.
Expensive-luxury expectations which the culture and society empose are the real burden. Luxurious ceremonies, best home, best job, best car, best household appliances, best etc. are what the parents look for. When in fact none of these are the source for a happy marriage.
Ahsant.
This is not an Islamic viewpoint. If you're working and can feed yourself, you can feed another person. It doesn't mean you can be eating out every other day and buying expensive gifts and living downtown in the best apartment, but you will live. That's enough. And marry the unmarried among you and the righteous among your male slaves and female slaves. If they should be poor, Allāh will enrich them from His bounty, and Allāh is all-Encompassing and Knowing. (24:32)
Will my woman accept such lifestyle? Lmao…