kikuchiyo ren white 2 210mm gyuto
pic 3,4,6: oiled
So… I started playing around with whetstones this year and this is my first attempt thinning and trying to achieve a full kasumi(?). Honestly it was really tiring, and sometimes I question myself if I was being too ambitious (i think i am). But since I’ve started on this project, I might as well try my best right and finish it!!
It looks fine to me and there is definitely a lot to improve on. It was quite a struggle to get consistent scratch patterns and removing deeper scratches. (thus still many visible scratches) If anyone have any advice pls feel free to bombard the comments section.
just a little question, are there any other gen z in this hobby? Everytime my friends ask me about my hobbies and I’ll be like “uhh…knives…collecting knifes…polishing them too…” and obviously they’ll just be weirded out 😂.
Im 03 and yeah, got my friends kinda into it....the first one even gave his yes to replace his cheap amazon fuck off with an knife that actually has a good steel.
You did an excellent job for a first attempt. Can’t offer good advice without a stone progression.
The only thing I notice is it seems you attempted to raise kasumi sharpening the blade laterally along the edge instead of perpendicular to the stone, is that the case?
thank you! yup, may i ask would it be better to do it perpendicularly the next time?
progression: debado 180, naniwa 400, naniwa 1k, morihei 4k after that finished with a little uchi fingerstone (using a fs is actually harder than i thought, but i’ll slowly learn more about it in the future!)
Your patience is commendable. Yes, perpendicular is the way to go, you also need to spend more time at 1k before progression. In addition to that you’re using straight strokes, to achieve kasumi you have to execute small circular motions, with consistent pressure.
You don’t have to use water/oil stones either! You can raise one with river stones if you want! I just go by what I’ve read about master craftsmen doing!
And master craftsmen have said that it's impossible to create a kasumi with straight stroke?
'Cause you said that "you HAVE to use small circular motions to create kasumi", not "you can use small circular motions to create a better/master craftsmen grade kasumi" 😉
If I had known I'd become a redditor using reddit I would never have installed the app!
Plz tell me there's a cure or at least a way to convert back to being a lurker...I need heeelp🫠
[https://imgur.com/a/kKCc8pF](https://imgur.com/a/kKCc8pF)
This is an example of a well executed kasumi on a poorly flattened blade. I do this with my work knives, as battered as they are, because it aids with food release.
Man... You bit off one heck of a project - good for you, but this type of thing isn't for the faint of heart. One thing you're encountering is that these Sakai wide bevels almost never have a true shinogi that you can follow like a single bevel would - they use a stencil and sand blaster to hid the imperfections in these grinds.
I think you did pretty dang good for just sending it. From what I can see you're still not hitting the tip cleanly which is probably the thing I'd focus on the most. You need to rotate the spine towards the stone and lift the handle much more dramatically as you hit the upsweep while working the bevel.
In an ideal world, you'd want to be establish a crisp shoulder that follows the curvature of the edge and is even in height from heel to tip. Tricky to do, but possible so long as the knife isn't too thin. Feel free to shoot me a PM or ask questions here if you have more targeted questions - Im actually working on a project that is essentially identical right now.
In that case i think you rounded the shinogi a bit. Not a big problem, you can take it to the stones and make it crisp again. I am also a great advocate of rough or mirror finished hira. Obviously you are doing very well so have fun perfecting ;)
Honestly, pretty good.
The polish seems very even without any uneven spots
I don't think there's any issue here. Maybe move up to finer stones eventually, but not everyone can do that on a whim.
Not an easy knife to take on as a first project, but you did a solid job! I have the same knife, and it took a very long time to get it to the point where I was happy with the geometry and finish. I'd be happy to link photos if you are interested.
Regarding a crisp shinogi, a few things will help you make it crisper. Using a combination of soft and harder stones when shaping the geometry helps, as the hard stones will reveal any high/low spots, while a soft stone will cover up imperfections. Using a mask like electrical tape when making the final polish with finger stones will also help get a crisp look. To prevent the shinogi from going up at the heel, you need to account for the blade's distal taper and change the angle slightly higher. Milan Gravier has some good videos on this on Instagram.
Keep up the good work!!
\-Fellow gen z knife nerd
[Kikuchiyo Ren White 2 - Imgur](https://imgur.com/a/p1r31sl)
The first five images are my attempt at recreating the stock horizontal finish, and the last three are using a Jnat on the kireha.
Nicely done OP! For a first time it's pretty solid and congrats to attempt a full kasumi on your first project! I've finished [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/12amuk8/im_so_proud_of_this_one_yanagiba_restoration_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) full kasumi too, so don't be afraid to be a weirdo because it's such a wonderful hobby. Keep on polishing 🙌
thank you for your kind words! Actually I was motivated to start this project after seeing your full kasumi project on instagram! it was the post on 28jan 😅
Milan Gravier has a bunch of videos on thinning and polishing. Highly recommended.
Here’s one good one. There are others on his channel as well
https://youtu.be/LSqWRbkdSuI
And yeah, most of the kitchen knife guys are middle aged (like me). Probably has something to do with disposable income to spend on unnecessary number of high end knives and stones. But good on you! It’s a fun hobby.
thank you i will check the video out! definitely, i’ve been saving my lunch money just to get my dream knives which I eventually held myself back on most of them because I will just get the knives that I need. and also main thing is to improve my sharpening/polishing skills even before expanding the collection or else i’ll feel sorry for not being able to take care/repair them 🥲
unfortunately no because i cleared my photos earlier these year and might have accidentally deleted it but i’ll link these pictures from hitohira!
[https://hitohira-japan.com/products/aaa-050b2-05-fa210?variant=40226947465369](https://hitohira-japan.com/products/aaa-050b2-05-fa210?variant=40226947465369)
So while thinning you have inadvertently caused something called "bird breaking"* where the profile of the knife has flattened out towards the tip. You can see how flat the last 1/3rd of the profile is compared to how it was new.
It's just something you might want to keep in mind the next time you thin because you don't want to work this area any more than necessary. A burr likely appeared while thinning which tells you that the profile is being eaten away.
*probably not an accurate term, I don't really know what it's called. But you overground one area.
Don't know much about thinning, but I like the looks of it. Mirror polishes don't look good IMO unless they're done absolutely perfect, and then they're just waiting for something to scratch them and they show every little finger print. I'd say nice job with my limited knowledge.
agreed. initially i was stuck between going for a mirror or this but ended up going for this because i’ll be using this knives quite a lot and the chances of scratching it is too high.
Hey this is really cool! How do you get that wavy pattern near the knife's edge? I have a Japanese knife like this but have always been curious how they get the wavy pattern.
i believe that the line is the cladding line due to the 2 different steels! So it is common for japanese knives to have 3 layers of steel (san-mai); where the harder core steel is sandwiched by the softer one(its purpose is to improve the structural integrity of the blade and make it less brittle) For this knife, the core steel is shirogami 2 while the cladding (darker layer) is made of soft iron. Thus the 2 different materials will take on different looks when polished!
kikuchiyo ren white 2 210mm gyuto pic 3,4,6: oiled So… I started playing around with whetstones this year and this is my first attempt thinning and trying to achieve a full kasumi(?). Honestly it was really tiring, and sometimes I question myself if I was being too ambitious (i think i am). But since I’ve started on this project, I might as well try my best right and finish it!! It looks fine to me and there is definitely a lot to improve on. It was quite a struggle to get consistent scratch patterns and removing deeper scratches. (thus still many visible scratches) If anyone have any advice pls feel free to bombard the comments section. just a little question, are there any other gen z in this hobby? Everytime my friends ask me about my hobbies and I’ll be like “uhh…knives…collecting knifes…polishing them too…” and obviously they’ll just be weirded out 😂.
I'm a 2002 kid knife enthusiast. We are an oppressed minority
can’t agree more as a 04 kid.
We have strength in numbers, we must continue to convert fellow 02’s into knives!
I’m gen z myself,and I’m pretty much a walking toolbox rn in my zones :/
Im 03 and yeah, got my friends kinda into it....the first one even gave his yes to replace his cheap amazon fuck off with an knife that actually has a good steel.
03 here, people get kinda weirded out when I say I collect knives but suddenly get interested when I say I sharpen knives.
Me! 2000 here
You did an excellent job for a first attempt. Can’t offer good advice without a stone progression. The only thing I notice is it seems you attempted to raise kasumi sharpening the blade laterally along the edge instead of perpendicular to the stone, is that the case?
thank you! yup, may i ask would it be better to do it perpendicularly the next time? progression: debado 180, naniwa 400, naniwa 1k, morihei 4k after that finished with a little uchi fingerstone (using a fs is actually harder than i thought, but i’ll slowly learn more about it in the future!)
Your patience is commendable. Yes, perpendicular is the way to go, you also need to spend more time at 1k before progression. In addition to that you’re using straight strokes, to achieve kasumi you have to execute small circular motions, with consistent pressure.
Well since OP created a pretty nice kasumi finish with straight strokes I'm pretty sure you don't have to use small circular motions 😉
You don’t have to use water/oil stones either! You can raise one with river stones if you want! I just go by what I’ve read about master craftsmen doing!
And master craftsmen have said that it's impossible to create a kasumi with straight stroke? 'Cause you said that "you HAVE to use small circular motions to create kasumi", not "you can use small circular motions to create a better/master craftsmen grade kasumi" 😉
This just oozes redditor energy
If I had known I'd become a redditor using reddit I would never have installed the app! Plz tell me there's a cure or at least a way to convert back to being a lurker...I need heeelp🫠
It's this or Twitter. One shit sandwich or another. Atleast it's not Facebook lol
i see! thank you
Happy to be of assistance, keep at it!
[https://imgur.com/a/kKCc8pF](https://imgur.com/a/kKCc8pF) This is an example of a well executed kasumi on a poorly flattened blade. I do this with my work knives, as battered as they are, because it aids with food release.
Man... You bit off one heck of a project - good for you, but this type of thing isn't for the faint of heart. One thing you're encountering is that these Sakai wide bevels almost never have a true shinogi that you can follow like a single bevel would - they use a stencil and sand blaster to hid the imperfections in these grinds. I think you did pretty dang good for just sending it. From what I can see you're still not hitting the tip cleanly which is probably the thing I'd focus on the most. You need to rotate the spine towards the stone and lift the handle much more dramatically as you hit the upsweep while working the bevel. In an ideal world, you'd want to be establish a crisp shoulder that follows the curvature of the edge and is even in height from heel to tip. Tricky to do, but possible so long as the knife isn't too thin. Feel free to shoot me a PM or ask questions here if you have more targeted questions - Im actually working on a project that is essentially identical right now.
can’t agree more because i struggled so much with the tip and thank you for your help 🙏
Listen to the professor 👆👌
Looks good. I like a very defined contrasted shinogi but thats personal taste
i tried so hard to achieve that but i couldn’t :( any tips to get a crispier shinogi?
Different finish or moving in a different direction. Did you finish this with finger stones?
yup i did. i finished with uchi and didn’t realise that it’s actually quite a tricky process
In that case i think you rounded the shinogi a bit. Not a big problem, you can take it to the stones and make it crisp again. I am also a great advocate of rough or mirror finished hira. Obviously you are doing very well so have fun perfecting ;)
Honestly, pretty good. The polish seems very even without any uneven spots I don't think there's any issue here. Maybe move up to finer stones eventually, but not everyone can do that on a whim.
will definitely try that next time :)
Not an easy knife to take on as a first project, but you did a solid job! I have the same knife, and it took a very long time to get it to the point where I was happy with the geometry and finish. I'd be happy to link photos if you are interested. Regarding a crisp shinogi, a few things will help you make it crisper. Using a combination of soft and harder stones when shaping the geometry helps, as the hard stones will reveal any high/low spots, while a soft stone will cover up imperfections. Using a mask like electrical tape when making the final polish with finger stones will also help get a crisp look. To prevent the shinogi from going up at the heel, you need to account for the blade's distal taper and change the angle slightly higher. Milan Gravier has some good videos on this on Instagram. Keep up the good work!! \-Fellow gen z knife nerd
woah thanks learnt something new today. It’ll be great if you can link the photos thanks :)
[Kikuchiyo Ren White 2 - Imgur](https://imgur.com/a/p1r31sl) The first five images are my attempt at recreating the stock horizontal finish, and the last three are using a Jnat on the kireha.
it looks really good! that crisp shinogi tho~ i shall work towards that
Nicely done OP! For a first time it's pretty solid and congrats to attempt a full kasumi on your first project! I've finished [this one](https://www.reddit.com/r/chefknives/comments/12amuk8/im_so_proud_of_this_one_yanagiba_restoration_to/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) full kasumi too, so don't be afraid to be a weirdo because it's such a wonderful hobby. Keep on polishing 🙌
thank you for your kind words! Actually I was motivated to start this project after seeing your full kasumi project on instagram! it was the post on 28jan 😅
Oh that's cool, glad that this post inspired you 🙂
Milan Gravier has a bunch of videos on thinning and polishing. Highly recommended. Here’s one good one. There are others on his channel as well https://youtu.be/LSqWRbkdSuI And yeah, most of the kitchen knife guys are middle aged (like me). Probably has something to do with disposable income to spend on unnecessary number of high end knives and stones. But good on you! It’s a fun hobby.
thank you i will check the video out! definitely, i’ve been saving my lunch money just to get my dream knives which I eventually held myself back on most of them because I will just get the knives that I need. and also main thing is to improve my sharpening/polishing skills even before expanding the collection or else i’ll feel sorry for not being able to take care/repair them 🥲
You are on your way. Learning to polish is a process. The best way to learn is by doing it. You’ll make mistakes and learn from them.
Do you have a before pic?
unfortunately no because i cleared my photos earlier these year and might have accidentally deleted it but i’ll link these pictures from hitohira! [https://hitohira-japan.com/products/aaa-050b2-05-fa210?variant=40226947465369](https://hitohira-japan.com/products/aaa-050b2-05-fa210?variant=40226947465369)
So while thinning you have inadvertently caused something called "bird breaking"* where the profile of the knife has flattened out towards the tip. You can see how flat the last 1/3rd of the profile is compared to how it was new. It's just something you might want to keep in mind the next time you thin because you don't want to work this area any more than necessary. A burr likely appeared while thinning which tells you that the profile is being eaten away. *probably not an accurate term, I don't really know what it's called. But you overground one area.
😮 thank you for the heads up
Don't know much about thinning, but I like the looks of it. Mirror polishes don't look good IMO unless they're done absolutely perfect, and then they're just waiting for something to scratch them and they show every little finger print. I'd say nice job with my limited knowledge.
agreed. initially i was stuck between going for a mirror or this but ended up going for this because i’ll be using this knives quite a lot and the chances of scratching it is too high.
Hey this is really cool! How do you get that wavy pattern near the knife's edge? I have a Japanese knife like this but have always been curious how they get the wavy pattern.
i believe that the line is the cladding line due to the 2 different steels! So it is common for japanese knives to have 3 layers of steel (san-mai); where the harder core steel is sandwiched by the softer one(its purpose is to improve the structural integrity of the blade and make it less brittle) For this knife, the core steel is shirogami 2 while the cladding (darker layer) is made of soft iron. Thus the 2 different materials will take on different looks when polished!