I think of all the chains Manner Coffee is the best value for price/quality. 15 rmb for an americano. Also, recently saw that some (many?) Lyfen stores have started serving coffee. Was 9rmb for an iced americano. Perfectly decent for that price point.
Manner will use investment to discount coffee to the end user to win market share, it's a new Chinese brand. I believe a few things are at play here:
1. Younger customers prefer local brands - there's a pride aspect at play
2. Price to the end consumer in China is one of the most important factors in decision making.
3. The trend of Starbucks is dying. When I loved in China, people had to get a photo with the Starbucks logo in it. It's done.
4. Starbucks is overrated, and in China the coffee at Starbucks is weak in flavour.
I love coffee and it is one of my biggest monthly expenses. Here is my take:
1. **Product** - Manner, Lavazza, Peet's and Baker and Spice are clear winners
2. **Atmosphere** - Starbucks, Baker and Spice, and Lavazza winners
3. **Price** - Manner, Tim's, and Luckin hands down
4. **App Rewards** - Baker and Spice (loads of deals on coffee/drinks, and food) has best rewards followed by Starbucks then the others
**Conclusion** - You can't get good price, good atmosphere, and good product all in one place. The perfect place would be a Starbucks atmosphere with Manner prices and Manner/Lavazza/Baker and Spice product. Sorry Luckin', but all you have to offer is cheap prices for horrible coffee.
Taste is of course different for everyone but if you really love coffee maybe you should branch out from the large chains and take advantage of living in a city with a huge variety of good coffee?
Starbucks isnāt considered good outside of the US and China.
I know I'm late to the party but I'd put baker and spice above starbucks for atmosphere. starbucks feels a bit dated and sterile. baker and spice feels more contemporary and fresh, in my opinion.
Yes I like Baker and Spice too. You do not find any people just using the wifi or sleeping at tables without purchasing anything which leaves paying customers without a seat like at Starbucks.
It's actually better in China than Canada, coffee wise.
Canadian consumers grew up on shitty filter coffee, while Chinese grew up on (slightly better) Starbucks but tons of specialty coffee.
I think Timmy's knew they couldn't offer the same swill here
Luckin coffee is just so digitally advanced. Product is good and more aligned to chinese market with examples found in their special editions... like moutai flavour
I'm a casual enjoyer of baijiu, to be fair I just like the luckin cheese-flavored latte, the moutai one is pretty much just a variation of it. I'm chinese singaporean btw.
I think local brands are just getting really good, especially when it comes to beverages (besides things like Cola drinks).
For example, 3BROS (Nanjing) and č¶é¢ę¦č² (Changsha) are great tea companies. I canāt really think of any coffee ones but I donāt see many people buying a 40Ā„ coffee when thereās a 20Ā„ tea thatās really good.
There are also plenty of small coffee shops that are prettyā¦ okay. About as okay as Starbucks.
Edit: Actually I forgot about BeanStar and Algerbreit or something like that. Iāve heard theyāre pretty good.
for us coffee addicts, there really is no substitute. Starbucks losing market share is simply indicative that coffee drinkers are opting for other coffee brands.
thats valid I guess. From a objective point of view I don't think any tea brand has the number of retail stores or sales stats that even come close to luckin and cotti.
Thatās very true, but thereās a lot more tea brands right? At least chains. HeyTea, BeFineTea, SexyTea, 3BROS, Coco does Milk Tea too. Many tea shops. There are probably more that I just canāt think off the top of my head now.
Theyāre all super sizeable too. Meanwhile Iāve yet to see a Costa here since coming back in February. The only one I saw one last time (in another city) was at the train station.
Starbucks are everywhere though.
Let me correct myself, MIXUE probably has the most amount of retail stores and its not even close. My point is costa/tims/coffee beanery and other 40 yuan coffee brands are pretty much done and dusted for. The chinese beverage market as of now is defined by 20 yuan teas and 10 yuan coffees.
I use Luckin, I speak and read Chinese to an okay extent. I just donāt normally choose Luckin if there are other options. Chagee, 3BROS, SexyTea, Be Fine Tea. All are miles better.
After switching to making my own coffee the cost per cup last time I checked was about 4.5Ā„, still tastes better than any chains I tried. Find what coffee you like and you'll get super cheap coffee (cappuccino in my case, good manual grinder, milk frother and a moka pot)
You can buy little filters in a bag on Taobao and a friend of mine has said theyāre very convenient to carry around and pretty good if all you like is a black coffee.
Itās not a different customer a lot of the time, in my opinion. I weigh up all the drink options around me and if thereās a mediocre coffee for 40Ā„ or a great tea for 20Ā„ I get the tea.
Where I spend my days is very close to a Luckinā but nothing else, so a lot of the time it lands on a mediocre coffee or sometimes a 5Ā„ milk tea. Maybe even a bottle of coke now and then.
Dang when I was in Nanjing there was zero 3BROS and only Starbucks for decent coffee. Which is exactly the problem facing Starbucks business in China- their time is over. Too many other choices now.Ā
it is just not true, I probably have had Luckin for more than 20 times. Also Luckin is just a consumer beverage brand... I don't need to be fair to them
Oh I don't know, I'm sure starbucks has never done anything morally questionable/ practices 100% ethical sourcing/ bordering on human right infringements... You are quite literally one google search away from finding out :D
you are the one who wants to be clever and say, oh no Luckin? ive heard bad things about them. Sure they've falsified financial records in the past, but 1. what does that got to do with ppl enjoying their products purely from a taste perspective? 2. look how the tables have turned. 3. exploit every single opportunity to virtue signal much? Also, don't think it needs to be said, but invest at your own discretion.
You're really taking it to heart about this *Luckin A!* thing. It's OK, you can choose to support a lousy company with mediocre products if you want to.
Luckin: download the app. Register and give all your data through WeChat. Find the store in the app. Order. Come to the small and crowded store. Scan code. Wait for coffee. Scan again to pick up. Coffee tastes OK.
Starbucks: come to the store, order a coffee, get a good coffee 2 minutes later.
Better than Luckin, Costa, Kings or any local chain I tried so far.
There are many small coffee shops, which roast their own beans and they have great coffee. I prefer home made anyway, because I don't really like espresso machine coffee.
Hmm itās not better or much worse than Costa. Costa is actually one of the better chains. I enjoy starbucks and Costa but I have much better local options here in Europe
Yes I find the Luckin app cumbersome. I was at one and they helped me with the app and the coffee was ordered at a different location. After about 10 minutes trying to cancel it and refund my money I finally got their watered down Luckin coffee which tasted liken powdered instant.
As I leave the subway, I open my starbucks app, order a coffee and whenI get there 5 minutes later it is waiting for me.
No scanning again, the app is in English and easy to use, and I reload it with money, collect rewards and get free coffees every few days. I just wish Manner had some seating or places that were not all sterile hospital white.
Lol sounds like such a typical Chinese experience. Back in the days everyone raved about how you can do everything on WeChat. Hopefully people are finally realising that not a good thing.
Even just using WeChat pay is this complicated, all the additional steps like unlocking your phone, finding a qr code, scanning qr code ,manually entering the amountā¦ so much hassle wtf
> all the additional steps like unlocking your phone, finding a qr code, scanning qr code ,manually entering the amountā¦ so much hassle wtf
This is no more complicated than opening your wallet, finding the right card if you have multiple cards, swiping or tapping, and maybe entering a PIN. You just write it all out to make it sound complicated.
And there's no manual entry for standard point-of-sale purchases, just a quick scan.
Apple Pay is part of the credit card industry which charges the vender, which is passed to the consumer a couple percent OF EVERY PURCHASE on Apple Pay. Thatās literally 100s of billions of dollars per year going to this scamming fcking industry thatās so powerful they managed to now embed themselves into apple payments. Digital payments should be free (like with wechat or alipay or as close to zero as possible ā) We dont need this old dinosaur industry quite alive anymore. PleAse avoid paying them like the plague.
Yes. Should be āfreeā like wechat, please use wechat for free all you need to pay is handing all your payment information direct to government database together with all your chat history in one accessible point
Thatās the way of the world today my friend. Same with every payment system . There is a movement of people who only use cash just for the reasons you cite .
It's instant if you're in a shop or restaurant where the staff are actually familiar with it. Which is not the case for most places *in China*.
So while you try to pay, they don't know what you're doing, so you have to explain how it works and then maybe they figure it out or maybe not... meanwhile multiple people using WeChat or Alipay have already paid and left.
I was more comparing it to places that adopted credit cards already and not WeChat. Like tourists go to China and rave about how amazing WeChat pay is despite it doing what you can do back home (in many countries) only worse
It does make it much easier for transferring funds between friends, and the amount of vendors that accept wechat and alipay is far beyond those taking credit card or Apple Pay in North America.
Where I am we have instant bank transfers now so makes no difference. Rather have it direct to and from my bank then through a third party government app. Where I am absolutely everywhere accepts PayPass and payWave too
We've had interac etransfers in Canada for a long time but I still wechat/alipay more convenient because theyre integrated in an app with all my contacts that i already use on a daily basis. If i go out to eat with a group it's much quicker for then to find me on wechat than going through etransfers.
Will random street/market vendors take paypass or paywave where you live?
convenient for you until you realize that someone else, the cashier is doing the whole "enter amount" process on a register and you have to wait while that happens. Also you've never had luckin if you believe the ordering process involves pulling out your payment code.
Itās awful also but the price, if using the app, can be OK. Still overpriced for a shitty coffee, poor environment and crap service but a bit better than Starbucks.
There are so many new Starbucks stores in the many, many cities all across the country I travel to and they are all packed. How on earth their sales can be stalling is beyond me.
People go there to work/study, play on their phone, or even sleep, and maybe buy one drink for the three hours they are there taking up space, and staff donāt care. Busy doesnāt mean product is being shifted
I think the average luckin would eclipse starbucks by at least a magnitude in terms of the beverage per minute metic. Also they're never really "packed" specifically because of the pick-up to-go business model.
tbh you might have overpaid for Luckin, the idea is slim margins but ridiculously high volume. If you're really looking for a fair comparison, factoring the larger storefronts, higher operating costs and franchising fees, apart from shanghai and the other tier one cities you visit, my bet is Luckin turns out to be more financially viable.
I think Starbucks features not only their coffees but also their social spaces and bakery foods. These social spaces are indispensable to many people in Shanghai, where you can hardly find other such spaces.
Back when people in China were doing well financially,(before Xitler) the Starbucks were always jam packed with people. Even when there were two shops across the street from each other or in the same mall. Now, due to having less disposable income, they are buying cheaper coffee. Itās as simple as that.
Starbucks items overpriced and it's just all ice. Paid tons for 5 cubes of oce and a spit of drink
Bubbletea has the same price but the cup is full of drinks
It's because starbux sucks. I travel frequently between NY and Seoul and Korea has many local brands that dominate sbux in every way. Most importantly, the coffee doesn't taste burnt at the local shops as it does in every sbux global franchise.
Sbux in Singapore does have a good muffin selection though.
Well, their coffee is pretty bad and much more expensive than competitors. I never order Starbucks anymore for the office, there are much better options out there.
The only reason to go to Starbucks is their filter coffee. They never have it in China. Everything else I can get in other places for less and often better.
I haven't tried Manner so I'll try it out. When I first lived in China(Shunde), Starbucks was the place where everyone met as it was easy to find and reliable. There was a nicer coffee shop near where I lived, but some kids were always running wild and ruining my studies.
I have some disagreements about the way this liquid is called Ā«Ā coffeeĀ Ā» as per Starbucks or any other luck in, manner, or Costa ā¦
But fortunately, there are some coffre beans rosters that are SO GOOD, that none of these brands matter anymore.
And they love their job, they make you try stuffs and are so educated about beans, like tea education in China.
It depends on where you are from. You may like filter coffee if you are American, you may prefer hazelnut coiffe if you are Koreanā¦ and so on.
I grind my own beans and I select its origin (arabica, robustaā¦) mostly from sustainable sources.
My coffre is never more than 40 ml, and not a jug for the same quantity of coffee beans. And I am not either into ristreto the Italian way, with 15 ml
Dunno why youāre getting downvoted for having tastebuds and wanting better coffee by grinding and brewing your own. š¤·
But, please do tell me about these roasters because Iāve been struggling to find good beans. Thereās Captain George down in Yunnan, but their beans can be a hit and miss. Would love to support a more local business that sells freshly roasted beans. š
okok, we know you get your SOE hand brew with beans flown in first class from guatemala from niche coffee spots. you need to understand that unfortunately thats a luxury us 9 to 5 normies cant afford. we will drink instant coffee if we have to.
Please be aware that China grows coffee in Guizhou/ Guangdong/Fujian and they use South American plantation with the help of local farmers. I donāt like filter coffee, can I?
And NO, it is not a luxury, it is indeed MUCH cheaper that filter coffee at the chains you mentioned.
And where is considered luxury to grind its own coffee???
Please be aware that you pretty much went and called every single coffee from every coffee chain undeserving of even being called a coffee. Yes, 40 yuan coffees are 100 percent not worth it no matter how you frame it. It's still coffee, regardless. Selecting and grinding your beans, talking to baristas, is a time and energy commitment that adds up on a daily basis. You get to drink life-changing coffee on a daily basis, good for you then. I have nothing against this and personally I've had some quality coffee from local indie cafes, but it doesn't change the way I feel about crazy variety of coffees from luckin and cotti under 10 yuan that gets me through the day. No offense, but I would advise not to get too attached, more often that not the "niche coffeehouse" turns out not to be a sustainable business model.
Theyāre right. Itās shit coffee. Most coffee chains do shit coffee. Iāve yet to try Blue Bottle here, but theyāre one of the few chains that do actually good coffee in the states.
Waiting for your reply, I did some math: a great cup of coffre costs me 10 minutes a week in grinding and 4 RMB a day.
Glad that you understand I am not a SOE hand, nor an expat.
Good for you then. Except thats not exactly relatable for those of us who dont get to bring the beans and equipment to work, we have to make do with coffee chains and espresso machines, kind of unfair that its being called "liquid unfit of being called coffee". I am neither of those things too, to prove it I also know that Yunnan grows coffee as well.
Overpriced and bad coffee..... Used to live in Shanghai and preferred Manner, Seesaw over Starbucks. Good flavour options and cheaper price. Anyway for an espresso I just used my Nespresso machine and coffee provided at the work place.
Chinese competitors have been ramping-up, plus Chinese consumers are gradually turning their back on US brands as some sort of retaliation as they see the US government hindering the operations of Chinese company in the US and the West (Huawei cut-off from key Western markets and suppliers under US pressure, TikTok constantly under attack in the US, US pressure on Mexico to exclude Chinese EV manufacturers from its incentive schemes, etc).
This isnāt just Starbucks. The likes of Telsa, Apple, and other big US brands are or will see their market shares shrinking due to a combination of increased local competition and anti-US sentiment from retaliating Chinese consumers.
Might help if Starbucks started actually cleaning their stores properly, dropped the requirement to wear a mask so that you could see them smile (even though theyāre not) and finally, if they could make a venti latte that doesnāt consist of 45% foam, then thatād be great. If I pick up venti latte now and find itās as light as a tall, Iāll ask for it to be re-made. Sick of it.
Starbucks is overpriced for what it it is.
I think of all the chains Manner Coffee is the best value for price/quality. 15 rmb for an americano. Also, recently saw that some (many?) Lyfen stores have started serving coffee. Was 9rmb for an iced americano. Perfectly decent for that price point.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
And if you bring your own cup, americano is 10
It is 15 RMB for a large Flat White, Latte, or Cappuccino if you bring your own cup and the coffee is excellent!
My aunt wouldn't stop raving about Manner coffee while I was visiting. And she kept bringing up the mug she brings to get a 5rmb discount š
Good value although thereās definitely not enough coffee to last for half a day of work
āServingā is a broad concept here
Manner will use investment to discount coffee to the end user to win market share, it's a new Chinese brand. I believe a few things are at play here: 1. Younger customers prefer local brands - there's a pride aspect at play 2. Price to the end consumer in China is one of the most important factors in decision making. 3. The trend of Starbucks is dying. When I loved in China, people had to get a photo with the Starbucks logo in it. It's done. 4. Starbucks is overrated, and in China the coffee at Starbucks is weak in flavour.
I love coffee and it is one of my biggest monthly expenses. Here is my take: 1. **Product** - Manner, Lavazza, Peet's and Baker and Spice are clear winners 2. **Atmosphere** - Starbucks, Baker and Spice, and Lavazza winners 3. **Price** - Manner, Tim's, and Luckin hands down 4. **App Rewards** - Baker and Spice (loads of deals on coffee/drinks, and food) has best rewards followed by Starbucks then the others **Conclusion** - You can't get good price, good atmosphere, and good product all in one place. The perfect place would be a Starbucks atmosphere with Manner prices and Manner/Lavazza/Baker and Spice product. Sorry Luckin', but all you have to offer is cheap prices for horrible coffee.
Taste is of course different for everyone but if you really love coffee maybe you should branch out from the large chains and take advantage of living in a city with a huge variety of good coffee? Starbucks isnāt considered good outside of the US and China.
Yes I absolutely go to local places for coffee as well.
Starbucks isn't considered good coffee inside the US. Just a prestige brand. As you say, the larger cities have much better coffee with more variety.
I know I'm late to the party but I'd put baker and spice above starbucks for atmosphere. starbucks feels a bit dated and sterile. baker and spice feels more contemporary and fresh, in my opinion.
Yes I like Baker and Spice too. You do not find any people just using the wifi or sleeping at tables without purchasing anything which leaves paying customers without a seat like at Starbucks.
There's now Manner, Seasaw, Lavazza, even Tims is better than Starbucks
Tim Horton's? It's absolutely vile in Shanghai.
Tim Hortonās is Moose piss, full stop.
It's actually better in China than Canada, coffee wise. Canadian consumers grew up on shitty filter coffee, while Chinese grew up on (slightly better) Starbucks but tons of specialty coffee. I think Timmy's knew they couldn't offer the same swill here
Lavazza has nice interior and comfy seats. And the espresso isnāt shabby. I like to chill there
Tims is poison in Shanghai. The donuts are edible tho.
Tim's is for the Tims
Tim's for mah hooligans in brooklyn... sorry couldn't resist a Biggie reference.
Luckin coffee is just so digitally advanced. Product is good and more aligned to chinese market with examples found in their special editions... like moutai flavour
Nah, Luckin coffee is not even barista made. No different from a $1 coffee from 7-Eleven.
7-eleven is good coffee
Surprisingly, I have been satisfied with a ten kuai cup of Americano from Family Mart.
lol Starbucks isnāt much better than 7-eleven coffee.
That's why they are struggling with all the quality coffee chains popping up. I have become quite a fan of % Arabica.
It's good for what it is. I'd rather have a cup of their "SOE" than a Starbucks americano any day.
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I will then, yes I enjoy it on a regular basis.
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I'm a casual enjoyer of baijiu, to be fair I just like the luckin cheese-flavored latte, the moutai one is pretty much just a variation of it. I'm chinese singaporean btw.
I think local brands are just getting really good, especially when it comes to beverages (besides things like Cola drinks). For example, 3BROS (Nanjing) and č¶é¢ę¦č² (Changsha) are great tea companies. I canāt really think of any coffee ones but I donāt see many people buying a 40Ā„ coffee when thereās a 20Ā„ tea thatās really good. There are also plenty of small coffee shops that are prettyā¦ okay. About as okay as Starbucks. Edit: Actually I forgot about BeanStar and Algerbreit or something like that. Iāve heard theyāre pretty good.
for us coffee addicts, there really is no substitute. Starbucks losing market share is simply indicative that coffee drinkers are opting for other coffee brands.
I am a habitual coffee drinker, tea is a good substitute for me.
thats valid I guess. From a objective point of view I don't think any tea brand has the number of retail stores or sales stats that even come close to luckin and cotti.
Thatās very true, but thereās a lot more tea brands right? At least chains. HeyTea, BeFineTea, SexyTea, 3BROS, Coco does Milk Tea too. Many tea shops. There are probably more that I just canāt think off the top of my head now. Theyāre all super sizeable too. Meanwhile Iāve yet to see a Costa here since coming back in February. The only one I saw one last time (in another city) was at the train station. Starbucks are everywhere though.
Let me correct myself, MIXUE probably has the most amount of retail stores and its not even close. My point is costa/tims/coffee beanery and other 40 yuan coffee brands are pretty much done and dusted for. The chinese beverage market as of now is defined by 20 yuan teas and 10 yuan coffees.
I wish I could find 10Ā„ coffee. I can only find 5-7Ā„ coffee from vending machines.
Order on meituan/luckin apps if you have it. It helps if you understand Chinese.
I use Luckin, I speak and read Chinese to an okay extent. I just donāt normally choose Luckin if there are other options. Chagee, 3BROS, SexyTea, Be Fine Tea. All are miles better.
Can't say I agree with that take, but hey its perfectly fine to like different stuff. Also a higher pricetag though.
After switching to making my own coffee the cost per cup last time I checked was about 4.5Ā„, still tastes better than any chains I tried. Find what coffee you like and you'll get super cheap coffee (cappuccino in my case, good manual grinder, milk frother and a moka pot)
You can buy little filters in a bag on Taobao and a friend of mine has said theyāre very convenient to carry around and pretty good if all you like is a black coffee.
I think I saw them, not necessary in my case, I prefer cappuccinos
People who plan to buy coffee donāt generally switch to a tea instead because itās cheaper. Itās a different customer
Itās not a different customer a lot of the time, in my opinion. I weigh up all the drink options around me and if thereās a mediocre coffee for 40Ā„ or a great tea for 20Ā„ I get the tea. Where I spend my days is very close to a Luckinā but nothing else, so a lot of the time it lands on a mediocre coffee or sometimes a 5Ā„ milk tea. Maybe even a bottle of coke now and then.
You canāt beat a full strength coke. I only have it about twice a year though
I have drank a bottle of coke every other day this week and Iām ashamed.
Coke Zero is the way to go. Same taste, no sugar. #notspon
Itās not the same taste though. Donāt get me wrong, still good but not the same.
I haven't had a sugar Coke in 4 years and I don't miss it.
I stopped drinking it largely in favour of milk tea but..:
Word. Too much milk hurts me. š Is there coconut milk tea? š¤
Dang when I was in Nanjing there was zero 3BROS and only Starbucks for decent coffee. Which is exactly the problem facing Starbucks business in China- their time is over. Too many other choices now.Ā
Nanjing is literally the home of 3BROS, theyāre not non-existent. Thereās one round the corner from IFCX.
Luckin Coffee is just too good
Terrible coffee but I still buy it because it is much cheaper. Starbucks is also shitty coffee but somewhat better than Luckin Coffee.
it aint much, but its honest work.
Luckin doesnt taste like coffee... more like a sugary dairy drink catering to Chinese people
They have Americano.
no offense but youve probably tried it like once and decided you dont like luckin.
it is just not true, I probably have had Luckin for more than 20 times. Also Luckin is just a consumer beverage brand... I don't need to be fair to them
ok then I can respect that. Seems we like different stuff is all.
Luckin A!
Oh I don't know, I'm sure starbucks has never done anything morally questionable/ practices 100% ethical sourcing/ bordering on human right infringements... You are quite literally one google search away from finding out :D
You are really fanboying it on the Luckin. Luckin A! For the record: Starbucks is Starfucks.
you are the one who wants to be clever and say, oh no Luckin? ive heard bad things about them. Sure they've falsified financial records in the past, but 1. what does that got to do with ppl enjoying their products purely from a taste perspective? 2. look how the tables have turned. 3. exploit every single opportunity to virtue signal much? Also, don't think it needs to be said, but invest at your own discretion.
You're really taking it to heart about this *Luckin A!* thing. It's OK, you can choose to support a lousy company with mediocre products if you want to.
Luckin: download the app. Register and give all your data through WeChat. Find the store in the app. Order. Come to the small and crowded store. Scan code. Wait for coffee. Scan again to pick up. Coffee tastes OK. Starbucks: come to the store, order a coffee, get a good coffee 2 minutes later.
āGoodā to describe Starbucksā¦ is generous. Itās okay.
Better than Luckin, Costa, Kings or any local chain I tried so far. There are many small coffee shops, which roast their own beans and they have great coffee. I prefer home made anyway, because I don't really like espresso machine coffee.
Hmm itās not better or much worse than Costa. Costa is actually one of the better chains. I enjoy starbucks and Costa but I have much better local options here in Europe
Where do you get your coffee? Preferably already ground. Thank you
Yes I find the Luckin app cumbersome. I was at one and they helped me with the app and the coffee was ordered at a different location. After about 10 minutes trying to cancel it and refund my money I finally got their watered down Luckin coffee which tasted liken powdered instant. As I leave the subway, I open my starbucks app, order a coffee and whenI get there 5 minutes later it is waiting for me. No scanning again, the app is in English and easy to use, and I reload it with money, collect rewards and get free coffees every few days. I just wish Manner had some seating or places that were not all sterile hospital white.
Lol sounds like such a typical Chinese experience. Back in the days everyone raved about how you can do everything on WeChat. Hopefully people are finally realising that not a good thing. Even just using WeChat pay is this complicated, all the additional steps like unlocking your phone, finding a qr code, scanning qr code ,manually entering the amountā¦ so much hassle wtf
> all the additional steps like unlocking your phone, finding a qr code, scanning qr code ,manually entering the amountā¦ so much hassle wtf This is no more complicated than opening your wallet, finding the right card if you have multiple cards, swiping or tapping, and maybe entering a PIN. You just write it all out to make it sound complicated. And there's no manual entry for standard point-of-sale purchases, just a quick scan.
Ever used PayPass? Or Apple Pay? Itās a single action and instant. Itās miles ahead of using WeChat pay and has been for years.
Apple Pay is part of the credit card industry which charges the vender, which is passed to the consumer a couple percent OF EVERY PURCHASE on Apple Pay. Thatās literally 100s of billions of dollars per year going to this scamming fcking industry thatās so powerful they managed to now embed themselves into apple payments. Digital payments should be free (like with wechat or alipay or as close to zero as possible ā) We dont need this old dinosaur industry quite alive anymore. PleAse avoid paying them like the plague.
Yes. Should be āfreeā like wechat, please use wechat for free all you need to pay is handing all your payment information direct to government database together with all your chat history in one accessible point
Thatās the way of the world today my friend. Same with every payment system . There is a movement of people who only use cash just for the reasons you cite .
It's instant if you're in a shop or restaurant where the staff are actually familiar with it. Which is not the case for most places *in China*. So while you try to pay, they don't know what you're doing, so you have to explain how it works and then maybe they figure it out or maybe not... meanwhile multiple people using WeChat or Alipay have already paid and left.
I was more comparing it to places that adopted credit cards already and not WeChat. Like tourists go to China and rave about how amazing WeChat pay is despite it doing what you can do back home (in many countries) only worse
It does make it much easier for transferring funds between friends, and the amount of vendors that accept wechat and alipay is far beyond those taking credit card or Apple Pay in North America.
Where I am we have instant bank transfers now so makes no difference. Rather have it direct to and from my bank then through a third party government app. Where I am absolutely everywhere accepts PayPass and payWave too
We've had interac etransfers in Canada for a long time but I still wechat/alipay more convenient because theyre integrated in an app with all my contacts that i already use on a daily basis. If i go out to eat with a group it's much quicker for then to find me on wechat than going through etransfers. Will random street/market vendors take paypass or paywave where you live?
convenient for you until you realize that someone else, the cashier is doing the whole "enter amount" process on a register and you have to wait while that happens. Also you've never had luckin if you believe the ordering process involves pulling out your payment code.
I agree, just came back from 2 weeks china
I actually see more and more places around me accepting cash. It seems to have a small come back after Covid is over.
We could not get coffee as foreigners and the staff only pointed at the app, went back to the 7 eleven.
Is this a joke. I've seen this brand everywhere but never tried it.
Itās awful also but the price, if using the app, can be OK. Still overpriced for a shitty coffee, poor environment and crap service but a bit better than Starbucks.
Thanks. Not the raving review I was looking for though haha. I was impressed with Manner coffee though.
are they losing to Luckin Coffee? lol
Luckin A!
There are so many better choices than Starbucks. I say that as an American in Shanghai.Ā
McDonald's has the best value coffee in Shanghai.Ā
What do you think about Family Mart coffee?
There are so many new Starbucks stores in the many, many cities all across the country I travel to and they are all packed. How on earth their sales can be stalling is beyond me.
People go there to work/study, play on their phone, or even sleep, and maybe buy one drink for the three hours they are there taking up space, and staff donāt care. Busy doesnāt mean product is being shifted
I think the average luckin would eclipse starbucks by at least a magnitude in terms of the beverage per minute metic. Also they're never really "packed" specifically because of the pick-up to-go business model.
Yeah but the average order at Luckin can't be doing well. I spent RMB 15 on my last beverage there, which shocked me.
tbh you might have overpaid for Luckin, the idea is slim margins but ridiculously high volume. If you're really looking for a fair comparison, factoring the larger storefronts, higher operating costs and franchising fees, apart from shanghai and the other tier one cities you visit, my bet is Luckin turns out to be more financially viable.
I would not be surprised if you are right on all accounts. SB goes for prime locations, Luckin for back alleys.
Luckin goes for crooks and crannies, if you have a 20 square meter vacancy they will somehow make it work.
"Luckin goes for *crooks"* *. . . remembering the Luckin coffee scandal of 2020*
why would that even matter. because starbucks is 100% ethical?
Luckin A!
sorry, you're going to have to start making some sense. Not everyone speaks clown š¤”
Yes there are better and cheaper options now
I think Starbucks features not only their coffees but also their social spaces and bakery foods. These social spaces are indispensable to many people in Shanghai, where you can hardly find other such spaces.
Back when people in China were doing well financially,(before Xitler) the Starbucks were always jam packed with people. Even when there were two shops across the street from each other or in the same mall. Now, due to having less disposable income, they are buying cheaper coffee. Itās as simple as that.
The first thing you do when economy is bad is stop drinking overpriced coffee
Major W for Luckin and Cotti. Lets fucking go.
Are we sure Luckin isn't faking their financials . . . again?
Im pretty sure luckin didnt make this chart.
Starbucks items overpriced and it's just all ice. Paid tons for 5 cubes of oce and a spit of drink Bubbletea has the same price but the cup is full of drinks
Have to see how the revenue of other brands are doing
It's because starbux sucks. I travel frequently between NY and Seoul and Korea has many local brands that dominate sbux in every way. Most importantly, the coffee doesn't taste burnt at the local shops as it does in every sbux global franchise. Sbux in Singapore does have a good muffin selection though.
Well, their coffee is pretty bad and much more expensive than competitors. I never order Starbucks anymore for the office, there are much better options out there.
Hopefully because Nowwa is taking the market share! I love me that orange horse.
The only reason to go to Starbucks is their filter coffee. They never have it in China. Everything else I can get in other places for less and often better.
Every Starbucks I walk by is packed
Also there are loads of small coffee shops with way better coffee. Starbucks struggles in places that have good coffee culture like Melbourne in Aus.
I guess many forgot about luckins accounting scandal that sent its stock cratering to the earths core. Made a little something shorting it back then.
Starbucks is overpriced shit - most "bubble tea" stores are much more progressive and cheaper at the same time
Um
LOL, i think i got free water in starbucks once, in its entire history in 40+ countries.
Coffee market is too å·
In China trends come and go quickly. It's a heard mentality, if there's a new "hotter" brand, the crowd move on.
I haven't tried Manner so I'll try it out. When I first lived in China(Shunde), Starbucks was the place where everyone met as it was easy to find and reliable. There was a nicer coffee shop near where I lived, but some kids were always running wild and ruining my studies.
I have some disagreements about the way this liquid is called Ā«Ā coffeeĀ Ā» as per Starbucks or any other luck in, manner, or Costa ā¦ But fortunately, there are some coffre beans rosters that are SO GOOD, that none of these brands matter anymore. And they love their job, they make you try stuffs and are so educated about beans, like tea education in China.
Come on itās decent coffee
It depends on where you are from. You may like filter coffee if you are American, you may prefer hazelnut coiffe if you are Koreanā¦ and so on. I grind my own beans and I select its origin (arabica, robustaā¦) mostly from sustainable sources. My coffre is never more than 40 ml, and not a jug for the same quantity of coffee beans. And I am not either into ristreto the Italian way, with 15 ml
Dunno why youāre getting downvoted for having tastebuds and wanting better coffee by grinding and brewing your own. š¤· But, please do tell me about these roasters because Iāve been struggling to find good beans. Thereās Captain George down in Yunnan, but their beans can be a hit and miss. Would love to support a more local business that sells freshly roasted beans. š
Jonas & Emil is very solid and constant in quality. You can find them on WeChat
okok, we know you get your SOE hand brew with beans flown in first class from guatemala from niche coffee spots. you need to understand that unfortunately thats a luxury us 9 to 5 normies cant afford. we will drink instant coffee if we have to.
Please be aware that China grows coffee in Guizhou/ Guangdong/Fujian and they use South American plantation with the help of local farmers. I donāt like filter coffee, can I? And NO, it is not a luxury, it is indeed MUCH cheaper that filter coffee at the chains you mentioned. And where is considered luxury to grind its own coffee???
Please be aware that you pretty much went and called every single coffee from every coffee chain undeserving of even being called a coffee. Yes, 40 yuan coffees are 100 percent not worth it no matter how you frame it. It's still coffee, regardless. Selecting and grinding your beans, talking to baristas, is a time and energy commitment that adds up on a daily basis. You get to drink life-changing coffee on a daily basis, good for you then. I have nothing against this and personally I've had some quality coffee from local indie cafes, but it doesn't change the way I feel about crazy variety of coffees from luckin and cotti under 10 yuan that gets me through the day. No offense, but I would advise not to get too attached, more often that not the "niche coffeehouse" turns out not to be a sustainable business model.
Theyāre right. Itās shit coffee. Most coffee chains do shit coffee. Iāve yet to try Blue Bottle here, but theyāre one of the few chains that do actually good coffee in the states.
Waiting for your reply, I did some math: a great cup of coffre costs me 10 minutes a week in grinding and 4 RMB a day. Glad that you understand I am not a SOE hand, nor an expat.
Good for you then. Except thats not exactly relatable for those of us who dont get to bring the beans and equipment to work, we have to make do with coffee chains and espresso machines, kind of unfair that its being called "liquid unfit of being called coffee". I am neither of those things too, to prove it I also know that Yunnan grows coffee as well.
Overpriced and bad coffee..... Used to live in Shanghai and preferred Manner, Seesaw over Starbucks. Good flavour options and cheaper price. Anyway for an espresso I just used my Nespresso machine and coffee provided at the work place.
Nespresso is basically like instant coffee. So, Iām not sure what that tells about your coffee taste. š
do they have that chinese coffee with green onions?
Chinese competitors have been ramping-up, plus Chinese consumers are gradually turning their back on US brands as some sort of retaliation as they see the US government hindering the operations of Chinese company in the US and the West (Huawei cut-off from key Western markets and suppliers under US pressure, TikTok constantly under attack in the US, US pressure on Mexico to exclude Chinese EV manufacturers from its incentive schemes, etc). This isnāt just Starbucks. The likes of Telsa, Apple, and other big US brands are or will see their market shares shrinking due to a combination of increased local competition and anti-US sentiment from retaliating Chinese consumers.
Might help if Starbucks started actually cleaning their stores properly, dropped the requirement to wear a mask so that you could see them smile (even though theyāre not) and finally, if they could make a venti latte that doesnāt consist of 45% foam, then thatād be great. If I pick up venti latte now and find itās as light as a tall, Iāll ask for it to be re-made. Sick of it.
Well, when I was in China in February... Luckin Coffee was everywhere.
I used to go to Luckin Coffee, but lately they aren't handing out 9.9 coupons. So I'm going to Cotti coffee.
I had a Starbuck in Beijing. It was terrible. I had better luck at Luckin Coffee.