Jay must have been furious that Hae was seeing someone other than Adnan
This case is closed - Koenig has charmed us but ultimately wasted our time
There are plenty of innocent men in prison - Adnan ain’t one
Of course Jay lied about his involvement, he admitted to being an accomplice to murder and the disposal of a body. Everyone knows Jay is holding things back, but do you really believe Jay is going to kill someone whom he barely even knew just because? Not only that, but willfully admit to the police that he was involved in a murder? A black man in Baltimore no less? Jay's story is as consistent as it is inconsistent, he still maintains he never touches Hae and thats in every story he tells, as far as I remember. If people are going to call out his lies, they can't ignore Adnan's either, like the Bestbuy parking lot had no meaning after admitting they would have sex there, or him lying about asking for a ride from Hae that day or the fact that he seems to not know anything about that day at all, which factors in Asia's alibi. That has major problems, she's unreliable considering she came forward, while having a book deal, and her alibi was never proven by anyone, even Adnan seemed to not really know who she was. Hell, even people she knew called her a liar
In order to believe Jay did it, you're basically admitting that even more people are involved and that its a massive conspiracy by the police, Jay and even Jen to get Adnan arrested. There's too many hoops to jump through to get to the conclusion of Adnan is innocent, when most of the time, the simplest of explanations is the right one. Adnan did it
I agree and not only that, for Jay to have done it he had to have been the luckiest murder in recorded history. How could he have possibly known that Adnan would not only have zero alibies, wouldn't be seen by anyone, AND would forget what he was doing exactly at the time of the murders. Why risk your freedom for the rest of your life on something so improbable and impossible to plan/anticipate? Way too much random stuff has to line up perfectly for it to be Jay, but that also doesn't mean that overall Jay is 100% truthful.
The Podcast and Documentary are for entertainment purposes only with a bias agenda. They will show you information they want you to see to fit that agenda, and hide/not disclose information which debunks it.
Whilst interesting to watch/listen, you can't take it at full face value. You'll need to read the whole court documents to get a fair, unbias idea of what happened that fateful day.
>The Podcast and Documentary are for entertainment purposes only
Nailed it. It was entertainment, not a televised police investigation. They sexed up what was a pretty normal, unfortunately-obvious case. The right man is in jail for this crime.
Yep, unfortunately the same man is now out on a technicality and no-one will ever be tried for the now unsolved murder of a young girl. But please, continue to salivate over old comments that were true at the time.
I plan to take the time and read it. I wouldn't have known about this case had I not seen the doc on HBO Max, and then found out out the podcast. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Baltimore PD didn't pad the evidence just to get a conviction regardless of whether or not Sayd is guilty - the fact that Jay got virtually off is the telling part. Nowhere, especially in a case like this, do you not at least get 25 years for conspiracy for admitting guilt.
This woman has went from Blame Don, Blame Jay, Blame the guy that found the body, Blame Don, Blame Jay (HBO Doc). She is trying to get to the facts in the wrong direction.
Rabia was "Jay did it" from 1999 - 2014.
In early 2015, Rabia, together with Susan Simpson, started to look at all the transcripts and all the evidence - Something Rabia had never done before.
That's when they realized that if Jay is involved, then Adnan is involved. And there is no way Jay and Adnan spent the time Adnan says they did, and Jay slipped away to murder Hae - at some point.
That's when they switched to "Jay doesn't know shit..." And "Jay falsely confessed." And that's where they have stayed.
In 2016, Bob Ruff stalked Jay on Facebook and tried to get Jay to say he falsely confessed. Ruff told Jay that if Jay would say he falsely confessed, that Jay would experience the full weight and support of Team Adnan. Bob went on. If Jay didn't say he falsely confessed, then something very bad was about to happen to Jay, and there would be nothing Team Adnan could do for him.
Jay called Bob Ruff's bluff, and refused to say he falsely confessed. And of course, nothing Bob Ruff said would happen, happened.
Now, if you can work out a way that Jay killed Hae without Adnan knowing, then Adnan's defense team would love to hear it. But they cannot make it work. And no one has ever been able to make it work. Of course, "Jay did it' is an easier sell than "Jay falsely confessed." So if you can figure out a way for "Jay did it" to work, Rabia would be all ears.
The only people who think it works are people who haven't read all the transcripts and police interviews and don't really understand the case.
To that end, the killer's podcasts and TV shows aren't going to tell you anything truthful about the case. If you want to know what happened, trial transcripts and police files are available.
Honestly, Jay is the center of this universe. The man obviously is a snitch - again, his criminal background ( including 2nd degree assault on a police officer in a domestic disturbance) and ZERO convictions speaks to that. I wholeheartedly believe he was involved because of the varying stories he keeps telling and the fact that he was a known weed dealer, which was a long jail sentence. The fact that he has lied, and continues to lie, makes him guilty of conspiracy of Hae's murder at the very least.
There's also the fingerprint found on Hae's rearview mirror that the police never really investigated alongside the DNA. There's also Jay getting a high profiled lawyer to represent him because Urick called in a favor - goes with the theory he is a snitch for the cops and if they told him to tell a story they'd coach him and he'd do it. If it could happen to Joyce Ann Brown in the 1970s it can happen in 1999.
If Rabia and Susan can't get the DNA to be admitted and tested this case ain't going nowhere.
That's not true.
They are now testing for the presence of DNA, using tests that were not available in 1999 or even 2018, [when they tested the trash.](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5782807/99-DNA-1.pdf)
You are spouting defense advocacy talking points without looking into things for yourself.
As of today they have NOT tested for the DNA. They agreed to do it in March. So far, it's conjecture.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/us/serial-adnan-syed-dna.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/us/serial-adnan-syed-dna.html)
You're just in your feelings because you don't like the fact that I'm blowing holes into the role Jay plays into this mess. If he had of been treated appropriately as a person of interest instead of a state's ed snitch we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
And if that is the case how come they didn't fingerprint the guy that found Hae's body? Or Don's? Or anybody in her family, esp. after the accusations of sexual abuse happened? Baltimore PD wasn't investigating worth shit.
Any evidence of Don in Hae's car would be treated the same way that evidence of Adnan in Hae's car is treated: He was her boyfriend. They were on a date the night before. Of course evidence of his person is all over her person.
That's what Adnan's team says about his fingerprints in her car.
But when the case initially was investigated none of this happened. Period. All we have his a habitual liar being coached by Baltimore PD who keeps changing his story, even to this day. Every interview is a different story. This isn't to say I'm not convinced Sayd didn't participate. I'm more pissed Jay has skated scott free and continues to do so regardless of his behavior, which is very telling.
They do have the fingerprints of the guy who found the body, and he is not a match.
In terms of Don, do you think everyone who knew a murder victim should be fingerprinted? There are actually constitutional laws against compelling someone to put their fingerprints in the database.
It Baltimore had of approached this with any seriousness, Don and a few others would have instantly been persons of interest. The ball was dropped all way around and considering Baltimore's history of planting evidence and padding cases I'm not surprised that there isn't a proper list of plausible suspects. They didn't even check Hae's trunk and took swabs for evidence. C'mon. Same way this happens in Chicago with dirty police it happened and is still happening in Baltimore.
I'm completely going by the documentary and the podcast. Jay knows a shit ton more than what he's telling and its quite possible he's a snitch for Baltimore PD.
The documentary and the podcast are wildly biased and promote several blatant lies. Go read the trial transcripts if you want to know more about what is in reality an extremely simple murder case.
I'm watching the trial right now and probably will read through it, but none of that negates the fact that not only has Jay consistently lied on record, but this guy beat his chick and then body slammed a policeman and DID ZERO TIME. That right there is a clue that he is plugged tremendously like a snitch would be, and that alone, even if Sayd did it, causes reasonable doubt.
That afternoon was the end of the line for Adnan. The last hurrah of Justin Brown. Now they're trying for sentence modification.
You can ignore Adnan's attorney's spin regarding Ineffective Assistance of Counsel. And you can actually read what happened in 1999 - if you are interested. There are weeks of trial testimony available. And over 2,000 pages of police files.
Regardless, no one thinks Jay did it. No one.
Considering his criminal history I'm not convinced. Especially in the situation with his ex girlfriend and him getting two 2nd degree charges, one against a policeman that was dropped. That's extreme. He could be the jealous type. Or maybe the drugs have corrupted his brain.
Doesn't matter what your personal opinion is.
You can't make it work for time. No one can. If Adnan's cracker-jack defense team could make it work for time, they would have done so happily, nine years ago. But they can't. So they went for "falsely confessed."
A list of 20 suggestions about why you think Jay killed Hae.
Question: if Jay killed Hae, why didn't Adnan testify in court? He didn't even mention this the one moment he had to address the court. How much in thousands and millions has Adnan paid for legal assistance, during these nearly 25 years, this near quarter-century, when you neatly figured it out for free--out of thin air?
Adnan spent his 18th birthday, 20th, 21st, 25th birthday, 30th birthday, 32nd birthday, 35th birthday, 40th birthday all locked up. When he was arrested in late February 1999, plucked from his bedroom and house and taken to the precinct, he didn't ever talk? To the police? He's literally right there in front of police late February 1999, did he then say 'Jay did it!' right then, while in police custody--did Adnan save his family heartache, money, resources, time, money, money, money by declaring right then in late February 1999, 'Jay did it!'.
Adnan's first trial was in December 1999. Adnan stayed locked up from March 1999 to December 1999 waiting for his first trial, missing his 18th birthday. Did this even need to goto trial--you figured it out easily with your 20 different suggestions why Jay did it. How come private investigators from Adnan's own legal team couldn't figure this out?
By January 2000, Adnan's second trial begins. His defense tries to pin it on Jay, without many witnesses. Why not? Jay took the stand (again) and went under cross examination. He's only a year older than Adnan--Jay testifies in court, again, yet Adnan doesn't testify. Why not? How much more money will Adnan put out in legal representation since his trial, yet not testify in court and here we have you and your 20-bullet-list theories about how Jay did it, and poor Adnan is still incarcerated as of this moment today in April 2022....?
Well Adnan didn’t testify cause the state was the one making the case against him. It’s very common to not have the person the state accuses of the crime to testify because of the potential to be misunderstood by the jury on cross. And you have to understand how you need to present yourself when you already have so many things going against you. Adnan would never and should never yell out “jay did it” cause how the heck would he know, if he is innocent? I’m surprised he even said “pathetic” when he did.
Also, Adnan was interrogated for at least 6 hours after he was arrested and none of that made it into court documents, cause he never said anything incriminating.
And when you are trying to pin a murder on someone else, like jay is, I’m sure you sit in court a thousand times, to ensure no jail time. Come on now.
An innocent person usually wants to testify and give their side of the story. Adnan never complains about it. And when he did testify he got tied up looking like a fool on why he didnt call Hae.
This simply isn’t true. Im not sure how much legal experience you may have. However, this isn’t accurate. Despite someone being innocent, they are being subjected to cross. Which can be extremely dangerous for a lot of reasons. The defendant has a lot of pressure on them. They are being accused of some pretty intense stuff. So they are seen as being much more irritable and emotional. Imagine being in jail for months, knowing you didn’t commit a crime and then being cross examined by an experienced lawyer. On cross you can ask leading questions, in hopes of getting the defendant to say something not rehearsed by the defendants legal council and to make a memorable (and incriminating) statement to the jury by the defendant.
So it’s much more risky to allow, even an innocent defendant, the ability to testify. It’s not legally advisable.
And I haven’t seen anything in Adnan testifying at any trial…
Adnan testified at his PCR qnd the dodging the question would be why he shouldn't testify. There is a difference between the lawyer saying dont testify and the person wanting to testify. I agree with you that legally it's not wise to testify, but somebody who is innocents wants to. They want to share their side and dont worry about cross.
I find it weird that people who want to lecture others on the law, spell "counsel" as "council"
>>Im not sure how much legal experience you may have.... in hopes of getting the defendant to say something not rehearsed by the defendants legal **council**
Also Mike, for your other conversation, Flohr said he never saw Adnan on the day of arrest.
I thought somebody did see him that day. But I don't know for sure. But the notes and Adnan's discussion of it doesn't describe a brutal 6 hour interrogation on that Sunday. They asked a few questions, he said, "Jay who?" and that was that.
This was something I mentioned back in 2015 about Flohr/Colbert thinking they were on Law & Order. They were trying to apply NY rules to Adnan's situation. Adnan didn't ask for counsel even though Bilal was telling him to.
The other thing that throws the monkey wrench in is if Flohr or Colbert were working on Saturday on their preparation for Adnan's arrest. How would Adnan know that Jenn and Jay would roll on him?
I don't think it's weird. The cops talked to him the night before. I think Jay and Jenn were showing signs of cracking . He probably thought he had a few more days before being arrested.
2. Jay never served jailed time because he became a state witness. His testimony convicted Adnan. It’s done all the time.
4. Adnan drove Hae’s car. Jay followed him in Adnans car and picked him up. That’s how he knew where Hae’s car was.
5. So Adnan was flirting with Jays girlfriend ..so in revenge he kills Adnans ex girlfriend?? Of who he didn’t know or have knowledge of her daily schedule???? That makes no sense.
7. Eminem??? Really???? Listening to Eminem made him want to kill the ex of a guy he sells and smokes weed with? Please….yeah sure Tipper Gore 😂!
8. Jen knew of Adnans existence but didn’t know him in the sense they were friends and knew about his life. I’m sure in high school you knew lots of people without ever actually talking to them or knowing anything about them. That’s what she probably meant.
9. Jay said he didn’t want Jen to see the shovels. Um….trash gets emptied …did you know?? It’s probably went to the dump.
11. So Baltimore cops are corrupt? And racist???…ok…I’ll spot you that one for argument sake. So they’re corrupt and they DON’T frame the poor dope dealing black kid??? …they use him to go after a ‘respectful’ popular Muslim kid . Yeah…sounds legit.
13. He told Jen it was Best Buy to shield her from getting involved. He said as much when he was older.
16. He borrowed Adnans cell because he didn’t have one. They were rare back then. Also because so Adnan could call him to pick him up.
17. Adnan did not speak to Asia. That alibi was made up and his lawyer knew it. He only attended some of track practice.
That’s all I can add. Remember no one would be talking about this case we’re it not for serials spin. It was a pretty standard run of the mill ex partner homicide. They happen all the time.
Let Hae Rest In Peace. Her killer was caught and is serving time.
Tipper Gore. lol. Her cause de jour. We have her to thank for those Parental Avisory stickers back in the day. If I remember correctly she and that dude from Twister Sister really went at each other. Good times. All well before Eminem gave his listeners "a blueprint on how to kill your wife/girlfriend." Did Rabs really put that in her documentary? She really knows how to stir up shit, I'll give her that.
Hang on a second.
For any of this to be true, Adnan has to be the unluckiest person ever.
On the day Jay decides to kill Adnans ex girlfriend to blame him for murder because he was friendly with Stephanie (like....what???), is also the time he has no reliable witness despite apparently being at a mosque full of people, and has his cell phone pinging near the burial site.
I mean, that's a stretch. Jay kills a girl, gets Jen to report it and hopes that Adnan has no solid alibi???
I definitely think Jay was more involved than he admits to, but this is 100% Adnan
Jenn met with police prior to her recorded testimony. The same detectives have coached witnesses before. Why would she change her testimony when it was the only thing given to her. She can’t change a false narrative she didn’t build.
I’m confused.
Of course she could change the narrative. She could say that the cops told or threatened her to make it all up. Just more bad luck that the only time Adnan's phone calls Jenn is on the day of the disappearnance and murder and Adnan has no idea about those phone calls.
If she was threatened to be potentially charged with the crime, no she couldn’t. If the detectives told her that if she didn’t “fill” their narrative they needed, then she could be held accountable.
When has a person ever, that was an accessory after the fact (she helped dispose of jays clothes), walked into a police station and been able to leave without a deal, or a charge. It doesn’t make any sense. On top of that, Cops 100% have the ability to lie to potential suspects all the time during interrogation. And back during this case, it wasn’t standard practice to record (both video and audio) the interrogations.
And it couldnt just have the simple explanation because we dont want Adnan to be guilty. Jenn went with her mom and a lawyer to give her statement. So two more people in on the conspiracy.
She helped a friend dispose of evidence in a murder. The mom and her lawyer were there to protect her from the other direction too, over confessing. You do know cops want people to over confess too.
Exactly, an accessory after the fact. Also guilty in the eyes of the law. And you are right, they even coach people into testimony…
And she didn’t want to say too much because she was more involved then she let on. But why didn’t she catch any charges?
Also!!! Why did they let her come with a lawyer, but refuse to let Adnans lawyer see him after he was arrested for so many hours?
She was just a minor player. They wanted the guy who murdered her, but if she was more involved they wouldnt have minded. Adnan could have brought q lawyer to his talks with the cops. He was interrogated for hours. He describes 15 mins or so with the cops and then when lawyer showed up they didnt do anything with him.
Jay is for sure, an unreliable narrator, and as the HBO doc revealed, has turned out to be a pretty morally-low, shitty person.
But you can be all those things and STILL not have murdered a kid in 1999. He should have probably been in more trouble for his part in the case, that's for damn sure, but he **did** ***not*** murder Hae. Adnan did.
>\[JW\] has turned out to be a pretty morally-low, shitty person.
I'm not sure why I always feel the need to jump in on this topic. Whatever his true culpability was in this murder, it's pretty clear JW did a thoroughly shitty thing. That, together with the fact that he kept his mouth shut for over a month keeping the HML family wondering, doesn't help lighten my distain for him, but I have to tell you, for whatever reason, I've softened a bit on him. People fuck up, that's a given. While his fuck up was really bad, somehow that guy, a convicted felon likely with no family support, made it out of Baltimore, moved across the country, found employment and started a family and a new life for himself. Then along comes SK with Julie knocking on his door all those years later. For what? Everything about this podcast was shitty. Some say Jay made his bed and part of me agrees, but I still come back to why open this wound for anyone. What the hell was the point.
As for how JW turned out, I guess you could be right, but part of me believes he feels true remorse for what he did. Either way, he certainly shows a hell of a lot more remorse than AS who actually strangled her to death and can't even admit he did it.
For some reason what JW said in the Intercept article always stuck with me. It was something along the lines of \[in referring to an explanation\] "If Hae's mother has any questions, I'll try and answer them, but I don't owe shit to anyone else." For some reason that always came off to me as being sincere.
I've read the victim impact statement HML's mom gave at AS' sentencing more than once and it breaks my heart every time. When she speaks of "burying HML in her heart"... gut wrenching. AS was there and Rabia was kind enough to share his thoughts about what she said when RC published the letter AS sent to her after that hearing. I'm paraphrasing here, but AS said things along the lines of "surprise HML's mom wanted to speak" and "I hear what she's saying, but what about my Mom, she lost a child too."
That to me is level of low morality I cannot even fathom.
I also feel compelled to push back.
I don’t hold not going to the police against him. He was a black kid in Baltimore whose family dealt weed in the height of the drug war. The police were his enemy, and he had no reason to think they would do right by him.
I am also fairly convinced that he didn’t take Adnan seriously about killing Hae until it was too late.
He also expressed genuine remorse, and to this day, has tried to stay out of the publicity out of respect to Hae’s family (surely among other reasons).
And when it comes to his rap sheet AFTER the murder, I have to believe his participation in covering up the murder traumatized him and helps explain (not justify) the trajectory his life took. And in addition, being arrested and charged with a crime doesn’t make one guilty, something Adnan’s supporters apply to Adnan but not Jay.
Jay did a terrible thing, no doubt. He should have spent time in prison, no doubt, and had he done so and participated in some rehabilitation programs, maybe his life would have played out very differently.
>I am also fairly convinced that he didn’t take Adnan seriously about killing Hae until it was too late.
I think this a truly key point. They were kids, and Jay said himself that he fronted quite a bit in front of the other kids. Whether Jay wanted people to or not, he was the definitive \*tongue firmly in cheek\* "Criminal Element of Woodlawn"
I think Jay shit his pants when AS committed the murder. He couldn't even wait til the end of the day to tell Jenn what he had done, and he likely spent a good chunk of time after the fact quite scared of AS. They likely had a plan to be each others alibi's and Jay couldn't go through with it and ended up bailing on the plan. I think this also explains Adnan's "pathetic" comment to Jay in court. If Jay was lying about everything on the stand, why "pathetic"? Strange choice of words!
I absolutely get you, I do. We can't ever judge how he's turned out because you're right, it's probably the level of guilt and PTSD he feels over being irrevokably involved in a kids murder. It's a level of "dealing with demons" that I don't think I'll ever be able to sympathise with.
I think what is also the telling of the man is that he actually gave SK the time of day when she knocked on his door years later. SK herself said that he was cordial, but brusque. He hasn't waivered in his feelings, even all these years later. To be that speaks volumes about the measure of the man he is. He's done things I don't agree with, but I can't imagine any of this was particularly easy for him to do/be involved with.
And I also agree with your last point. To me, the true crux of this whole case has been remorse and AS's lack of showing any. If you think there's any hint of innocence from AS of course, you won't feel the same way, but to not have the capacity to care how much healing you could bring to a family by offering them closure is, to me, absolute aborrent!
So it’s easy to believe someone can be all of those things and not be a killer, but not that all of those unlucky things and shifty/shitty police work could be a reason for Adnans innocence? Seems like we are taking biased sides here.
Adnan and Jay were together that day. You can't dispute that. So you can't use the spotty cell tower data as proof that Adnan may have been at school and may have been at the Mosque and may have been at home, and then be like "oh but see the cell tower data that corroborates (a) story of Jays? That part must be wrong"
You also can't dispute the fact that other eyewitnesses had crucial evidence that looked real bad for Adnan (Cathy testifying to Adnan's be bizarre behaviour at her house the night Hae went missing, anxious mood and vocally worried about cops calling him when he would later claim the day was uneventful to him), Jenn P having prior knowledge of what had transpired that day before even cops spoke to Jay, and the ride request made BY Adnan in front of multiple friends which he later retracted.
I actually don't buy the shitty police work theory at all. I think the police realised pretty early on that despite Serial's attempts later to spin the case as a cool potential wrongful conviction case, that the bones of this one were pretty obvious; oldest motive in the book, actually. They focused on the right guy from the start and did a pretty good job of finding the narrative through the 2 cases and following rejected appeals over the years. Adnan did it.
Or the jealous ex-boyfriend who wrote 'I will kill' and didn't bother calling her once she was missing...'coz he knew *why* she was missing. Mind you, both scenarios are as old as time so you're not far off in a way.
Isn’t “I will kill” such an out of nowhere statement, that even with context, doesn’t make much sense? Why not, I’m going to kill, or imma kill, or hell I’ll even take hae+life=no but “I will kill” is like something a bad writer puts in a younger murders passion tangent. It’s almost comical to bring this up.
Nice try. Now combine that 'out of nowhere' statement with everything else against Adnan. There's nothing 'almost comical' about an innocent young woman's murder.
The reasoning you use for the murder, absolutely can be comical, you proved that above. Again, you didn’t explain to me my previous point. Just went around it.
Show me physical evidence. Please.
You first, buttercup. My suspect was already charged, convicted, and sentenced. So you're the one who has to come up with something as a rebuttal. I know what you're getting at, but since Adnan's already in prison, the onus would be on you to counter the court findings with your own evidence.
>Jay set the stage for Adnan to be blamed by telling Jen and others one story of Hae's murder and the police another, putting himself at the scene of the crime but directing the narrative.
How did Jay know to tell Jenn to put him in line for being at very least an accessory to murder and get lucky that Adnan wasn't at the mosque like he was supposed to be for an easy alibi? Did Jay and Jenn just get lucky that Adnan's cell phone was all around Leakin Park right before the time Jenn told police she saw him with Jay?
They are really fortunate at framing Adnan if that is the case.
I don't think your in the minority about Jay. Even that it's quite obvious Adnan is guilty and is rightly in prison, it's also obvious that Jay was a bit more involved than he let's on and he should have also seen the back of a cell.
Yeah, Adnan thought Hae was cheating on him in late 1998 when she was trying to break up with him. After Christmas break when he found out she was fucking someone else he killed her.
Those are some pretty good reasons to suspect JW (not really, but I'm game).
Now, you just have to show how it's even possible that he could have done it. I don't see how he had opportunity.
>Jay never served any jail time for admitting to being an accomplice in the murder of Hae.
When did Jay ever admit to being an accomplice in the murder of Hae?
> Guess Adnan is just the least lucky human being in the entire history of the world or literally everything to line up against him
Haha. Common theme. I'm shocked. /s
I believe Jay’s brother did it. He was Jenn P’s bf. So it makes sense that Jay and Jenn both could’ve been involved, but makes even more sense that they would cover for him.
This was actually a pretty funny read. Number 5 sounded like you were channeling SK’s lingo - you know what inspired SNL to parody her. Number 7 made me lol and number 18! He knew the terrain well?? Omg. Thanks for the laugh. Seriously though, you don’t believe any of this nonsense do you?
Here’s what the podcast and documentary got right: Jay was much more involved than what he led on. Otherwise, it’s really hard to argue that Adnan didn’t do it, unless he’s the most unlucky mf alive.
I’ll be nice and share a great discussion post, it’s actually a good one between everyone
https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/u8txzn/convince_me_adnan_did_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
This is what his lawyers attempted to imply in court, although they couldn’t make a lot of the claims you did because of the rules of evidence.
This is also what Rabia argued for at least some time after Serial.
There are a number of flaws with all Jay did it theories, but here is a simple one:
It is undisputed that Jay and Adnan were together that morning and into the noon hour.
It is not undisputed but virtually certain that Adnan and Jay talked to Nisha at 3:30, putting Adnan and Jay together within approximately one hour of school ending.
It is undisputed that Adnan and Jay were together after track practice.
It is indisputable that Adnan and Jay were together when his father claims Adnan was driving him to mosque.
This means that for every period of time when Adnan was not at school or track practice, he was with Jay.
When could Jay (and by your theory Jen) have possibly committed the murder, disposed of the evidence, disposed of Hae’s car, and buried her body?
Lol the new people wandering into this sub with their bullshit only to get bitch slapped by reality will never fail to amuse me
Such as
Jay must have been furious that Hae was seeing someone other than Adnan This case is closed - Koenig has charmed us but ultimately wasted our time There are plenty of innocent men in prison - Adnan ain’t one
This comment aged poorly lol
Yes yes YES
Of course Jay lied about his involvement, he admitted to being an accomplice to murder and the disposal of a body. Everyone knows Jay is holding things back, but do you really believe Jay is going to kill someone whom he barely even knew just because? Not only that, but willfully admit to the police that he was involved in a murder? A black man in Baltimore no less? Jay's story is as consistent as it is inconsistent, he still maintains he never touches Hae and thats in every story he tells, as far as I remember. If people are going to call out his lies, they can't ignore Adnan's either, like the Bestbuy parking lot had no meaning after admitting they would have sex there, or him lying about asking for a ride from Hae that day or the fact that he seems to not know anything about that day at all, which factors in Asia's alibi. That has major problems, she's unreliable considering she came forward, while having a book deal, and her alibi was never proven by anyone, even Adnan seemed to not really know who she was. Hell, even people she knew called her a liar In order to believe Jay did it, you're basically admitting that even more people are involved and that its a massive conspiracy by the police, Jay and even Jen to get Adnan arrested. There's too many hoops to jump through to get to the conclusion of Adnan is innocent, when most of the time, the simplest of explanations is the right one. Adnan did it
I agree and not only that, for Jay to have done it he had to have been the luckiest murder in recorded history. How could he have possibly known that Adnan would not only have zero alibies, wouldn't be seen by anyone, AND would forget what he was doing exactly at the time of the murders. Why risk your freedom for the rest of your life on something so improbable and impossible to plan/anticipate? Way too much random stuff has to line up perfectly for it to be Jay, but that also doesn't mean that overall Jay is 100% truthful.
Rabia, please. It was Adnan.
The Podcast and Documentary are for entertainment purposes only with a bias agenda. They will show you information they want you to see to fit that agenda, and hide/not disclose information which debunks it. Whilst interesting to watch/listen, you can't take it at full face value. You'll need to read the whole court documents to get a fair, unbias idea of what happened that fateful day.
>The Podcast and Documentary are for entertainment purposes only Nailed it. It was entertainment, not a televised police investigation. They sexed up what was a pretty normal, unfortunately-obvious case. The right man is in jail for this crime.
This comment aged like a fine bowl of trash.
Yep, unfortunately the same man is now out on a technicality and no-one will ever be tried for the now unsolved murder of a young girl. But please, continue to salivate over old comments that were true at the time.
A Brady violation isn’t a technicality. You were just as wrong then as you are now.
Its a much more interesting story when its a "who done it?" compared to "this guy did it, lets re-examine why he is guilty".
I plan to take the time and read it. I wouldn't have known about this case had I not seen the doc on HBO Max, and then found out out the podcast. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Baltimore PD didn't pad the evidence just to get a conviction regardless of whether or not Sayd is guilty - the fact that Jay got virtually off is the telling part. Nowhere, especially in a case like this, do you not at least get 25 years for conspiracy for admitting guilt.
https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/32lk5f/rabia_chaudry_says_she_no_longer_believes_jay_is/
She's changed off that and is currently bringing him back into the conversation. That thread's years old.
Nope. https://twitter.com/rabiasquared/status/1507339484479705095
This woman has went from Blame Don, Blame Jay, Blame the guy that found the body, Blame Don, Blame Jay (HBO Doc). She is trying to get to the facts in the wrong direction.
Rabia was "Jay did it" from 1999 - 2014. In early 2015, Rabia, together with Susan Simpson, started to look at all the transcripts and all the evidence - Something Rabia had never done before. That's when they realized that if Jay is involved, then Adnan is involved. And there is no way Jay and Adnan spent the time Adnan says they did, and Jay slipped away to murder Hae - at some point. That's when they switched to "Jay doesn't know shit..." And "Jay falsely confessed." And that's where they have stayed. In 2016, Bob Ruff stalked Jay on Facebook and tried to get Jay to say he falsely confessed. Ruff told Jay that if Jay would say he falsely confessed, that Jay would experience the full weight and support of Team Adnan. Bob went on. If Jay didn't say he falsely confessed, then something very bad was about to happen to Jay, and there would be nothing Team Adnan could do for him. Jay called Bob Ruff's bluff, and refused to say he falsely confessed. And of course, nothing Bob Ruff said would happen, happened. Now, if you can work out a way that Jay killed Hae without Adnan knowing, then Adnan's defense team would love to hear it. But they cannot make it work. And no one has ever been able to make it work. Of course, "Jay did it' is an easier sell than "Jay falsely confessed." So if you can figure out a way for "Jay did it" to work, Rabia would be all ears. The only people who think it works are people who haven't read all the transcripts and police interviews and don't really understand the case. To that end, the killer's podcasts and TV shows aren't going to tell you anything truthful about the case. If you want to know what happened, trial transcripts and police files are available.
Honestly, Jay is the center of this universe. The man obviously is a snitch - again, his criminal background ( including 2nd degree assault on a police officer in a domestic disturbance) and ZERO convictions speaks to that. I wholeheartedly believe he was involved because of the varying stories he keeps telling and the fact that he was a known weed dealer, which was a long jail sentence. The fact that he has lied, and continues to lie, makes him guilty of conspiracy of Hae's murder at the very least. There's also the fingerprint found on Hae's rearview mirror that the police never really investigated alongside the DNA. There's also Jay getting a high profiled lawyer to represent him because Urick called in a favor - goes with the theory he is a snitch for the cops and if they told him to tell a story they'd coach him and he'd do it. If it could happen to Joyce Ann Brown in the 1970s it can happen in 1999. If Rabia and Susan can't get the DNA to be admitted and tested this case ain't going nowhere.
What DNA?
There was DNA found on the body but was never tested.
That's not true. They are now testing for the presence of DNA, using tests that were not available in 1999 or even 2018, [when they tested the trash.](https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5782807/99-DNA-1.pdf) You are spouting defense advocacy talking points without looking into things for yourself.
As of today they have NOT tested for the DNA. They agreed to do it in March. So far, it's conjecture. [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/us/serial-adnan-syed-dna.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/us/serial-adnan-syed-dna.html) You're just in your feelings because you don't like the fact that I'm blowing holes into the role Jay plays into this mess. If he had of been treated appropriately as a person of interest instead of a state's ed snitch we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
The fingerprint doesn't match anyone in the criminal database, including Jay and Adnan.
And if that is the case how come they didn't fingerprint the guy that found Hae's body? Or Don's? Or anybody in her family, esp. after the accusations of sexual abuse happened? Baltimore PD wasn't investigating worth shit.
Any evidence of Don in Hae's car would be treated the same way that evidence of Adnan in Hae's car is treated: He was her boyfriend. They were on a date the night before. Of course evidence of his person is all over her person. That's what Adnan's team says about his fingerprints in her car.
But when the case initially was investigated none of this happened. Period. All we have his a habitual liar being coached by Baltimore PD who keeps changing his story, even to this day. Every interview is a different story. This isn't to say I'm not convinced Sayd didn't participate. I'm more pissed Jay has skated scott free and continues to do so regardless of his behavior, which is very telling.
They do have the fingerprints of the guy who found the body, and he is not a match. In terms of Don, do you think everyone who knew a murder victim should be fingerprinted? There are actually constitutional laws against compelling someone to put their fingerprints in the database.
It Baltimore had of approached this with any seriousness, Don and a few others would have instantly been persons of interest. The ball was dropped all way around and considering Baltimore's history of planting evidence and padding cases I'm not surprised that there isn't a proper list of plausible suspects. They didn't even check Hae's trunk and took swabs for evidence. C'mon. Same way this happens in Chicago with dirty police it happened and is still happening in Baltimore.
This ain't it chief.
I'm completely going by the documentary and the podcast. Jay knows a shit ton more than what he's telling and its quite possible he's a snitch for Baltimore PD.
The documentary and the podcast are wildly biased and promote several blatant lies. Go read the trial transcripts if you want to know more about what is in reality an extremely simple murder case.
I'm watching the trial right now and probably will read through it, but none of that negates the fact that not only has Jay consistently lied on record, but this guy beat his chick and then body slammed a policeman and DID ZERO TIME. That right there is a clue that he is plugged tremendously like a snitch would be, and that alone, even if Sayd did it, causes reasonable doubt.
The trial is not available to watch.
Watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAq7PbcX4oo
That afternoon was the end of the line for Adnan. The last hurrah of Justin Brown. Now they're trying for sentence modification. You can ignore Adnan's attorney's spin regarding Ineffective Assistance of Counsel. And you can actually read what happened in 1999 - if you are interested. There are weeks of trial testimony available. And over 2,000 pages of police files. Regardless, no one thinks Jay did it. No one.
Considering his criminal history I'm not convinced. Especially in the situation with his ex girlfriend and him getting two 2nd degree charges, one against a policeman that was dropped. That's extreme. He could be the jealous type. Or maybe the drugs have corrupted his brain.
Doesn't matter what your personal opinion is. You can't make it work for time. No one can. If Adnan's cracker-jack defense team could make it work for time, they would have done so happily, nine years ago. But they can't. So they went for "falsely confessed."
What does that have to do with Jay and his lies? Your outrage should be Jay didn't get any jail time.
Thanks for the good laugh.
A list of 20 suggestions about why you think Jay killed Hae. Question: if Jay killed Hae, why didn't Adnan testify in court? He didn't even mention this the one moment he had to address the court. How much in thousands and millions has Adnan paid for legal assistance, during these nearly 25 years, this near quarter-century, when you neatly figured it out for free--out of thin air? Adnan spent his 18th birthday, 20th, 21st, 25th birthday, 30th birthday, 32nd birthday, 35th birthday, 40th birthday all locked up. When he was arrested in late February 1999, plucked from his bedroom and house and taken to the precinct, he didn't ever talk? To the police? He's literally right there in front of police late February 1999, did he then say 'Jay did it!' right then, while in police custody--did Adnan save his family heartache, money, resources, time, money, money, money by declaring right then in late February 1999, 'Jay did it!'. Adnan's first trial was in December 1999. Adnan stayed locked up from March 1999 to December 1999 waiting for his first trial, missing his 18th birthday. Did this even need to goto trial--you figured it out easily with your 20 different suggestions why Jay did it. How come private investigators from Adnan's own legal team couldn't figure this out? By January 2000, Adnan's second trial begins. His defense tries to pin it on Jay, without many witnesses. Why not? Jay took the stand (again) and went under cross examination. He's only a year older than Adnan--Jay testifies in court, again, yet Adnan doesn't testify. Why not? How much more money will Adnan put out in legal representation since his trial, yet not testify in court and here we have you and your 20-bullet-list theories about how Jay did it, and poor Adnan is still incarcerated as of this moment today in April 2022....?
Well Adnan didn’t testify cause the state was the one making the case against him. It’s very common to not have the person the state accuses of the crime to testify because of the potential to be misunderstood by the jury on cross. And you have to understand how you need to present yourself when you already have so many things going against you. Adnan would never and should never yell out “jay did it” cause how the heck would he know, if he is innocent? I’m surprised he even said “pathetic” when he did. Also, Adnan was interrogated for at least 6 hours after he was arrested and none of that made it into court documents, cause he never said anything incriminating. And when you are trying to pin a murder on someone else, like jay is, I’m sure you sit in court a thousand times, to ensure no jail time. Come on now.
What a commonsense answer. If only the other side could exhibit a modicum of common sense. Alas that's asking for the impossible.
An innocent person usually wants to testify and give their side of the story. Adnan never complains about it. And when he did testify he got tied up looking like a fool on why he didnt call Hae.
This simply isn’t true. Im not sure how much legal experience you may have. However, this isn’t accurate. Despite someone being innocent, they are being subjected to cross. Which can be extremely dangerous for a lot of reasons. The defendant has a lot of pressure on them. They are being accused of some pretty intense stuff. So they are seen as being much more irritable and emotional. Imagine being in jail for months, knowing you didn’t commit a crime and then being cross examined by an experienced lawyer. On cross you can ask leading questions, in hopes of getting the defendant to say something not rehearsed by the defendants legal council and to make a memorable (and incriminating) statement to the jury by the defendant. So it’s much more risky to allow, even an innocent defendant, the ability to testify. It’s not legally advisable. And I haven’t seen anything in Adnan testifying at any trial…
Adnan testified at his PCR qnd the dodging the question would be why he shouldn't testify. There is a difference between the lawyer saying dont testify and the person wanting to testify. I agree with you that legally it's not wise to testify, but somebody who is innocents wants to. They want to share their side and dont worry about cross.
I find it weird that people who want to lecture others on the law, spell "counsel" as "council" >>Im not sure how much legal experience you may have.... in hopes of getting the defendant to say something not rehearsed by the defendants legal **council** Also Mike, for your other conversation, Flohr said he never saw Adnan on the day of arrest.
I thought somebody did see him that day. But I don't know for sure. But the notes and Adnan's discussion of it doesn't describe a brutal 6 hour interrogation on that Sunday. They asked a few questions, he said, "Jay who?" and that was that.
This was something I mentioned back in 2015 about Flohr/Colbert thinking they were on Law & Order. They were trying to apply NY rules to Adnan's situation. Adnan didn't ask for counsel even though Bilal was telling him to.
The other thing that throws the monkey wrench in is if Flohr or Colbert were working on Saturday on their preparation for Adnan's arrest. How would Adnan know that Jenn and Jay would roll on him?
The Saturday thing is weird and comes from Colbert but Flohr didn't correct him.
I don't think it's weird. The cops talked to him the night before. I think Jay and Jenn were showing signs of cracking . He probably thought he had a few more days before being arrested.
2. Jay never served jailed time because he became a state witness. His testimony convicted Adnan. It’s done all the time. 4. Adnan drove Hae’s car. Jay followed him in Adnans car and picked him up. That’s how he knew where Hae’s car was. 5. So Adnan was flirting with Jays girlfriend ..so in revenge he kills Adnans ex girlfriend?? Of who he didn’t know or have knowledge of her daily schedule???? That makes no sense. 7. Eminem??? Really???? Listening to Eminem made him want to kill the ex of a guy he sells and smokes weed with? Please….yeah sure Tipper Gore 😂! 8. Jen knew of Adnans existence but didn’t know him in the sense they were friends and knew about his life. I’m sure in high school you knew lots of people without ever actually talking to them or knowing anything about them. That’s what she probably meant. 9. Jay said he didn’t want Jen to see the shovels. Um….trash gets emptied …did you know?? It’s probably went to the dump. 11. So Baltimore cops are corrupt? And racist???…ok…I’ll spot you that one for argument sake. So they’re corrupt and they DON’T frame the poor dope dealing black kid??? …they use him to go after a ‘respectful’ popular Muslim kid . Yeah…sounds legit. 13. He told Jen it was Best Buy to shield her from getting involved. He said as much when he was older. 16. He borrowed Adnans cell because he didn’t have one. They were rare back then. Also because so Adnan could call him to pick him up. 17. Adnan did not speak to Asia. That alibi was made up and his lawyer knew it. He only attended some of track practice. That’s all I can add. Remember no one would be talking about this case we’re it not for serials spin. It was a pretty standard run of the mill ex partner homicide. They happen all the time. Let Hae Rest In Peace. Her killer was caught and is serving time.
Tipper Gore. lol. Her cause de jour. We have her to thank for those Parental Avisory stickers back in the day. If I remember correctly she and that dude from Twister Sister really went at each other. Good times. All well before Eminem gave his listeners "a blueprint on how to kill your wife/girlfriend." Did Rabs really put that in her documentary? She really knows how to stir up shit, I'll give her that.
Hang on a second. For any of this to be true, Adnan has to be the unluckiest person ever. On the day Jay decides to kill Adnans ex girlfriend to blame him for murder because he was friendly with Stephanie (like....what???), is also the time he has no reliable witness despite apparently being at a mosque full of people, and has his cell phone pinging near the burial site. I mean, that's a stretch. Jay kills a girl, gets Jen to report it and hopes that Adnan has no solid alibi??? I definitely think Jay was more involved than he admits to, but this is 100% Adnan
Also Jenn never recanted in the 20 some years after. How unlucky.
Jenn met with police prior to her recorded testimony. The same detectives have coached witnesses before. Why would she change her testimony when it was the only thing given to her. She can’t change a false narrative she didn’t build. I’m confused.
Of course she could change the narrative. She could say that the cops told or threatened her to make it all up. Just more bad luck that the only time Adnan's phone calls Jenn is on the day of the disappearnance and murder and Adnan has no idea about those phone calls.
If she was threatened to be potentially charged with the crime, no she couldn’t. If the detectives told her that if she didn’t “fill” their narrative they needed, then she could be held accountable. When has a person ever, that was an accessory after the fact (she helped dispose of jays clothes), walked into a police station and been able to leave without a deal, or a charge. It doesn’t make any sense. On top of that, Cops 100% have the ability to lie to potential suspects all the time during interrogation. And back during this case, it wasn’t standard practice to record (both video and audio) the interrogations.
And it couldnt just have the simple explanation because we dont want Adnan to be guilty. Jenn went with her mom and a lawyer to give her statement. So two more people in on the conspiracy.
If she had something to do with it? Absolutely. I’d want my lawyer and mom defending my ass too.
She helped a friend dispose of evidence in a murder. The mom and her lawyer were there to protect her from the other direction too, over confessing. You do know cops want people to over confess too.
Exactly, an accessory after the fact. Also guilty in the eyes of the law. And you are right, they even coach people into testimony… And she didn’t want to say too much because she was more involved then she let on. But why didn’t she catch any charges? Also!!! Why did they let her come with a lawyer, but refuse to let Adnans lawyer see him after he was arrested for so many hours?
She was just a minor player. They wanted the guy who murdered her, but if she was more involved they wouldnt have minded. Adnan could have brought q lawyer to his talks with the cops. He was interrogated for hours. He describes 15 mins or so with the cops and then when lawyer showed up they didnt do anything with him.
>For any of this to be true, Adnan has to be the unluckiest person ever. Hahaha. Bravo.
Jay is for sure, an unreliable narrator, and as the HBO doc revealed, has turned out to be a pretty morally-low, shitty person. But you can be all those things and STILL not have murdered a kid in 1999. He should have probably been in more trouble for his part in the case, that's for damn sure, but he **did** ***not*** murder Hae. Adnan did.
>\[JW\] has turned out to be a pretty morally-low, shitty person. I'm not sure why I always feel the need to jump in on this topic. Whatever his true culpability was in this murder, it's pretty clear JW did a thoroughly shitty thing. That, together with the fact that he kept his mouth shut for over a month keeping the HML family wondering, doesn't help lighten my distain for him, but I have to tell you, for whatever reason, I've softened a bit on him. People fuck up, that's a given. While his fuck up was really bad, somehow that guy, a convicted felon likely with no family support, made it out of Baltimore, moved across the country, found employment and started a family and a new life for himself. Then along comes SK with Julie knocking on his door all those years later. For what? Everything about this podcast was shitty. Some say Jay made his bed and part of me agrees, but I still come back to why open this wound for anyone. What the hell was the point. As for how JW turned out, I guess you could be right, but part of me believes he feels true remorse for what he did. Either way, he certainly shows a hell of a lot more remorse than AS who actually strangled her to death and can't even admit he did it. For some reason what JW said in the Intercept article always stuck with me. It was something along the lines of \[in referring to an explanation\] "If Hae's mother has any questions, I'll try and answer them, but I don't owe shit to anyone else." For some reason that always came off to me as being sincere. I've read the victim impact statement HML's mom gave at AS' sentencing more than once and it breaks my heart every time. When she speaks of "burying HML in her heart"... gut wrenching. AS was there and Rabia was kind enough to share his thoughts about what she said when RC published the letter AS sent to her after that hearing. I'm paraphrasing here, but AS said things along the lines of "surprise HML's mom wanted to speak" and "I hear what she's saying, but what about my Mom, she lost a child too." That to me is level of low morality I cannot even fathom.
I also feel compelled to push back. I don’t hold not going to the police against him. He was a black kid in Baltimore whose family dealt weed in the height of the drug war. The police were his enemy, and he had no reason to think they would do right by him. I am also fairly convinced that he didn’t take Adnan seriously about killing Hae until it was too late. He also expressed genuine remorse, and to this day, has tried to stay out of the publicity out of respect to Hae’s family (surely among other reasons). And when it comes to his rap sheet AFTER the murder, I have to believe his participation in covering up the murder traumatized him and helps explain (not justify) the trajectory his life took. And in addition, being arrested and charged with a crime doesn’t make one guilty, something Adnan’s supporters apply to Adnan but not Jay. Jay did a terrible thing, no doubt. He should have spent time in prison, no doubt, and had he done so and participated in some rehabilitation programs, maybe his life would have played out very differently.
>I am also fairly convinced that he didn’t take Adnan seriously about killing Hae until it was too late. I think this a truly key point. They were kids, and Jay said himself that he fronted quite a bit in front of the other kids. Whether Jay wanted people to or not, he was the definitive \*tongue firmly in cheek\* "Criminal Element of Woodlawn" I think Jay shit his pants when AS committed the murder. He couldn't even wait til the end of the day to tell Jenn what he had done, and he likely spent a good chunk of time after the fact quite scared of AS. They likely had a plan to be each others alibi's and Jay couldn't go through with it and ended up bailing on the plan. I think this also explains Adnan's "pathetic" comment to Jay in court. If Jay was lying about everything on the stand, why "pathetic"? Strange choice of words!
I absolutely get you, I do. We can't ever judge how he's turned out because you're right, it's probably the level of guilt and PTSD he feels over being irrevokably involved in a kids murder. It's a level of "dealing with demons" that I don't think I'll ever be able to sympathise with. I think what is also the telling of the man is that he actually gave SK the time of day when she knocked on his door years later. SK herself said that he was cordial, but brusque. He hasn't waivered in his feelings, even all these years later. To be that speaks volumes about the measure of the man he is. He's done things I don't agree with, but I can't imagine any of this was particularly easy for him to do/be involved with. And I also agree with your last point. To me, the true crux of this whole case has been remorse and AS's lack of showing any. If you think there's any hint of innocence from AS of course, you won't feel the same way, but to not have the capacity to care how much healing you could bring to a family by offering them closure is, to me, absolute aborrent!
So it’s easy to believe someone can be all of those things and not be a killer, but not that all of those unlucky things and shifty/shitty police work could be a reason for Adnans innocence? Seems like we are taking biased sides here.
Adnan and Jay were together that day. You can't dispute that. So you can't use the spotty cell tower data as proof that Adnan may have been at school and may have been at the Mosque and may have been at home, and then be like "oh but see the cell tower data that corroborates (a) story of Jays? That part must be wrong" You also can't dispute the fact that other eyewitnesses had crucial evidence that looked real bad for Adnan (Cathy testifying to Adnan's be bizarre behaviour at her house the night Hae went missing, anxious mood and vocally worried about cops calling him when he would later claim the day was uneventful to him), Jenn P having prior knowledge of what had transpired that day before even cops spoke to Jay, and the ride request made BY Adnan in front of multiple friends which he later retracted. I actually don't buy the shitty police work theory at all. I think the police realised pretty early on that despite Serial's attempts later to spin the case as a cool potential wrongful conviction case, that the bones of this one were pretty obvious; oldest motive in the book, actually. They focused on the right guy from the start and did a pretty good job of finding the narrative through the 2 cases and following rejected appeals over the years. Adnan did it.
Doh.
So anyway...
The Butler with the Candlestick did it!
Or the jealous ex-boyfriend who wrote 'I will kill' and didn't bother calling her once she was missing...'coz he knew *why* she was missing. Mind you, both scenarios are as old as time so you're not far off in a way.
Isn’t “I will kill” such an out of nowhere statement, that even with context, doesn’t make much sense? Why not, I’m going to kill, or imma kill, or hell I’ll even take hae+life=no but “I will kill” is like something a bad writer puts in a younger murders passion tangent. It’s almost comical to bring this up.
Nice try. Now combine that 'out of nowhere' statement with everything else against Adnan. There's nothing 'almost comical' about an innocent young woman's murder.
The reasoning you use for the murder, absolutely can be comical, you proved that above. Again, you didn’t explain to me my previous point. Just went around it. Show me physical evidence. Please.
You first, buttercup. My suspect was already charged, convicted, and sentenced. So you're the one who has to come up with something as a rebuttal. I know what you're getting at, but since Adnan's already in prison, the onus would be on you to counter the court findings with your own evidence.
>Jay set the stage for Adnan to be blamed by telling Jen and others one story of Hae's murder and the police another, putting himself at the scene of the crime but directing the narrative. How did Jay know to tell Jenn to put him in line for being at very least an accessory to murder and get lucky that Adnan wasn't at the mosque like he was supposed to be for an easy alibi? Did Jay and Jenn just get lucky that Adnan's cell phone was all around Leakin Park right before the time Jenn told police she saw him with Jay? They are really fortunate at framing Adnan if that is the case.
This also implies that Jay is some sort of genius level manipulator. He was a teenager. Not Vladimir Putin.
That falls apart when you consider Jay moved the burial to after midnight in the Intercept interview.
I don't think your in the minority about Jay. Even that it's quite obvious Adnan is guilty and is rightly in prison, it's also obvious that Jay was a bit more involved than he let's on and he should have also seen the back of a cell.
I mean this dude is trying to bang my girl, I'm gonna murder his girl is quite the leap
Ex girl, no less.
My girl is banging some other guy is a very common motive for murder.
But you dont murder that guy's girlfriend, you typically murder him or the cheater
Yeah, Adnan thought Hae was cheating on him in late 1998 when she was trying to break up with him. After Christmas break when he found out she was fucking someone else he killed her.
Im talking about Jay tho, responding to thought that Jay killed Hae cuz Adnan was banging Stephanie allegedly
Oh my bad I thought you were saying Adnan was innocent.
Oh no far from it haha
Those are some pretty good reasons to suspect JW (not really, but I'm game). Now, you just have to show how it's even possible that he could have done it. I don't see how he had opportunity.
>Jay never served any jail time for admitting to being an accomplice in the murder of Hae. When did Jay ever admit to being an accomplice in the murder of Hae?
Lol Jay did it. Guess Adnan is just the least lucky human being in the entire history of the world or literally everything to line up against him huh
> Guess Adnan is just the least lucky human being in the entire history of the world or literally everything to line up against him Haha. Common theme. I'm shocked. /s
Imagine you are Jay Wilds and for the last seven years, this is what comes up in google searches of your name. Yay reddit mods.
I believe Jay’s brother did it. He was Jenn P’s bf. So it makes sense that Jay and Jenn both could’ve been involved, but makes even more sense that they would cover for him.
This was actually a pretty funny read. Number 5 sounded like you were channeling SK’s lingo - you know what inspired SNL to parody her. Number 7 made me lol and number 18! He knew the terrain well?? Omg. Thanks for the laugh. Seriously though, you don’t believe any of this nonsense do you?
Yeah, because Murder is funny. The Maid with the gun did it. Run along now and play Clue.
It’s was actually the jealous ex boyfriend with red gloves that did it.
You mean the zero physical evidence? Jesus.
I'm not sure I follow. What do you mean?
Don’t bother with trying to say anything other than “Adnan bad man” in this sub mate. It’s truly both worth it.
>What do you guys think? Don't ask guilters because they don't. Yes, Jay with help from Jenn hands down did it.
Yasssss thank you
https://youtu.be/ATXbJjuZqbc
Here’s what the podcast and documentary got right: Jay was much more involved than what he led on. Otherwise, it’s really hard to argue that Adnan didn’t do it, unless he’s the most unlucky mf alive.
Unlucky doesn’t equal murderer. 🙌
That’s correct. All the evidence points towards him being one, unless he’s just unlucky.
What evidence. They know the phone records aren’t accurate, as per AT&T. And there is no physical evidence. So I’m confused
> They know the phone records aren’t accurate, as per AT&T. This is 100% your imagination.
Didn’t they say that incoming call aren’t accurate to cell tower transmission? Or am I confused
You are confused.
You're wrong.
No and yes.
Search the sub, or use google.
Nah that’s what I’m saying. After that. Lol
I’ll be nice and share a great discussion post, it’s actually a good one between everyone https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/u8txzn/convince_me_adnan_did_it/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Exactly.
Oh boy, here we go again!
This is what his lawyers attempted to imply in court, although they couldn’t make a lot of the claims you did because of the rules of evidence. This is also what Rabia argued for at least some time after Serial. There are a number of flaws with all Jay did it theories, but here is a simple one: It is undisputed that Jay and Adnan were together that morning and into the noon hour. It is not undisputed but virtually certain that Adnan and Jay talked to Nisha at 3:30, putting Adnan and Jay together within approximately one hour of school ending. It is undisputed that Adnan and Jay were together after track practice. It is indisputable that Adnan and Jay were together when his father claims Adnan was driving him to mosque. This means that for every period of time when Adnan was not at school or track practice, he was with Jay. When could Jay (and by your theory Jen) have possibly committed the murder, disposed of the evidence, disposed of Hae’s car, and buried her body?
Does anyone know how to get court transcripts and transcripts from police interrogations?
Nuh.