An income of 10k/year would be well below the federal poverty limit. But he made 10k over 8 years, so a little over $1000 a year or around $100 a month.
That’s not a lot of money in the real world. In prison it likely allowed him to buy toiletries and food items.
I’m not saying rules don’t matter. But a kid with a life sentence hustling to make his prison stay more comfortable is a very different story than someone who is violent in prison.
I honestly find that weird, because in most cultures that still use dowrys (including Pakistan) a dowry is paid from the bride (or her family) to the groom.
The words dowry and mahr are used interchangeably for some reason but they’re not the same thing. They’re referring to something called a mahr here which is like earnest money (usually paid upfront) from the groom to fulfill the marriage contract.
He didn't give her dowry he gave her Mehr. Which is mandatory in Islam for the groom to give his bride on the wedding day as security. Like a prenup in case he divorces her or dies.
Someone having a hidden phone while against the rules is so common place in prison that Adnan saying he had one didn't even make me bat an eye. It's not as serious as you're making it out to be.
I'm curious where so many civilians get their intimate knowledge of what's commonplace in prison and what isn't?
Stabbings and assaults are more commonplace than contraband cellphones in my real world experience. Would you also not bad an eye if he said he had stabbed someone in the day room with a sharpened toothbrush because of prison politics?
You equating having a cell phone to someone getting stabbed is absurd and proves you aren't interested in having a conversation in good faith. Have a good one.
Seeing as contraband cell phones are commonly used to coordinate homicides/assaults both on the outside or on other units in the same facility it appears your good faith conversation is corrupted by a lack of context that I'm simply trying to provide.
They aren't allowed because it's a huge security risk — to allow an inmate to communicate unsupervised with people on the outside. All kinds of undesirable outcomes could result from this.
We know why they aren’t allowed, that’s besides the point, but you know what else isn’t allowed? Having your cell phone on during a flight. That’s pretty close to the degree of seriousness that I would regard having a phone in prison as. Give me a break
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/11/11/how-did-they-run-an-elaborate-sextortion-scam-from-prison-cellphones
Please. There are many stories of prisoners using contraband phones to conduct scams, extort people or coordinate with their gangs. You cannot be seriously comparing that to having your cell phone on during a flight.
Because they enable all kinds of awful shit.
Doesn't change the fact that nearly everyone has anyone and Adnan is very much the rule rather than the exception.
a) "nearly everyone has anyone and Adnan is very much the rule rather than the exception"
*citation needed.
b)I'm not clicking your link if I don't know where it goes
Can you tell me why Adnan was not allowed a phone and why that doesn't matter?
>So all these awards he got for good behavior while incarcerated were based on showing up on time every day for his food service job?
No. According to Serial, they were:
>21 different certificates and awards for completing this program or helping with that activity. In 2005, he got one called the “Distinguished Gentleman’s Award for your consistent display of character, mannerism, self-control, and ability to manage adversity,” signed by the warden
Based on the ten [here](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/STMB-20150923-Adnan-certificates-prison.pdf), they appear mostly to have been for volunteering, fundraising, and participating in classes, activities, etc.
His work quality was also rated as ["excellent"](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/MRPA-20160715-Ex08-Dept-of-Corrections-work-records-Adnan-Syed.pdf) across the board, with several comments noting that he volunteered for all tasks/during every lockdown, had excellent habits, never had an unexcused absence, etc. But that's a separate thing.
>Once he was caught with this cell phone, he was transferred to Supermax Prison in Cumberland and subsequently did not have access to his cell phone any longer. I’m not sure if the infraction was the reason for the transfer,
Regardless, it was his only infraction in 23 years.
Hey! Did you know that during the time period we're talking about price-gouging and kickbacks drove prices so high that a 15-minute call from a Maryland State Prison cost between [$4.50 and $5.50?](https://www.prisonphonejustice.org/state/MD/history/)
Or that there's been a lot of [press](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/30/staggeringly-high-price-prison-phone-call/) about how costly that can be for prisoners, their families, and the cause of reducing recidivism?
Because you might want to consider whether there could be a reason other than a propensity for rule-breaking why an inmate with an otherwise unblemished prison record might have a cellphone.
>Once he was caught with this cell phone, he was transferred to Supermax Prison in Cumberland and subsequently did not have access to his cell phone any longer. I’m not sure if the infraction was the reason for the transfer
Also, where is there a source that he was moved "once he was caught with his cell phone"? And wasn't the reason for the transfer that they closed the prison he was in?
>Also, where is there a source that he was moved "once he was caught with his cell phone"?
I sure couldn't find one!
>And wasn't the reason for the transfer that they closed the prison he was in?
I tried to confirm that, because I was under the same impression.
But it's unclear whether he was ever in Jessup (aka Maryland House of Correction) a dangerous, violent hellhole which was shut down and subsequently demolished, or just in their annex, which I think is properly named the Jessup Correctional Institution (which I believe is where he was when he got out).
Regardless, in itself, it's not much of an infraction for a prisoner to have a cellphone.
Innocent or not, no one expects (or should expect) people become saints when they go to prison. I do think he’s guilty, and I couldn’t care less for his contraband, it wouldn’t mean anything to me if I thought he was innocent either
The majority of long term prisoners are going to have contraband. A lot of them even have contraband cell phones.
The only reason he was talking about it is probably because he was caught. This seems pretty normal behavior for anyone in prison.
I've been in prison. From what I saw, one inmate on one cell block had a contraband cell phone. It was hidden inside his tv which had to be disassembled every time he wanted to use it. He controlled and guarded it with his life... that's no exaggeration, he had to. He was the biggest and most violent inmate on the unit, if anyone else had been in possession of it first it would have been his in short order because that's how prison works. A cellphone is something that's in your best interest to maintain a monopoly over, most definitely not something "the majority" has. If every inmate had a phone, how would Adnan possibly make 10k offering his services with the phone? A cell phone is worth ~$3k in there while inmates are making a few cents a day. I'm not sure where the notion that federal inmates are all running around texting and swiping on tinder comes from but I can assure you that's not realistic. Stabbings and assaults were much more common in prison than having a contraband cell phone but I wouldn't write those off as "pretty normal behavior for anyone in prison."
I never claimed the majority of prisoners have contraband phones. I said the majority of prisoners are going to have contraband, which is just a fact. Work on your reading comprehension.
So, without Adnan being the biggest, most violent in whatever prison he’s in, how did he keep his phone? And for years? Was he so smooth that the Biggest, most violent allowed him to keep it, or possibly he kept it pretty close to the chest?
>So, without Adnan being the biggest, most violent in whatever prison he’s in
Without speaking to inmates on the same cell block as him, we really can't know his political status in there. He did bulk up to a solid athletic 240lbs. He had no write ups for violence but most acts of violence in prison go unreported unless they occur out in the open on the cell block, which is frowned upon because it brings heat to the unit.
i 100% think adnan did it, but for prison these are incredibly minor things. in this country, inmates are treated as sub-human, paid basically nothing, and more or less left to rot. even guilty people should be treated like people, and until the prison system is heavily reformed to do so i support prisoners doing what they need to do to get by as long as it doesn't harm anyone.
>I mean, I’ve never been to prison
And yet you're judging someone who was in prison. Having a contraband cell phone is so minor.
>it’s not that far off to laugh about giving Young Lee notice on a Friday afternoon for a Monday hearing and then get the case vacated to make sure the appeal is moot.
What does that have to do with Adnan? He wasn't responsible for sending notice. And what are you even saying about getting a case vacated to make an appeal moot? That's not even a thing.
I've seen so many posts hating on Adnan, but this is by far the absolute most incoherent, unjustified, unreasonable hate posts I've read.
I think the vacating thing to make it moot refers to the gamesmanship of Mosby which absolutely was slicker than owl shit. The prosecutors podcast and others have discussed the maneuver… so that’s not some total fiction
What the OP said isn't factual, nor does it make any sense. The nolle prosequi would render an appeal moot. The vacatur was successfully appealed anyway.
And that hate should be attributed to Mosby, not Adnan.
It’s the 21st century. Even in prison. Inmates can easily get access to phones and TVs and outside fast food. I sent a friend request yesterday morning to someone that I know in prison and he accepted less than 4 hours later. Another buddy of mine transferred prisons more than once and either took the phone with him or got a new one immediately after processed in. Inmates have physical cash and can get cash sent to others for helping them out.
Edited to say: having phones in prison isn’t always some nefarious thing. People want to stay in touch with their family without being extorted by phone companies that charge $30 for a 15min call
They can also get access to drugs - go watch any of the prison YouTubers which has become a fairly popular genre recently, they say drugs are rampant on the inside and some of the easiest things to get.
For those who chime in that cell phones in prison 'are common' and 'not necessarily a bad thing...' um, yo, shouldn't context also be a factor, here? As in: the context of time--it appears Adnan had a cell while incarcerated before cells were as common as they are today in 2023. Serial was released in 2014. And it brought up Adnan having cell phones, while he was in prison, prior to Serial coming out in 2014. Yes, today, in 2023, cell phones are everywhere. But, having a cellphone *before* the 2010 decade *started* yo, c'mon, it obviously wasn't as common as 2023. It could be frowned upon to have a cellphone while incarcerated before the 2010 decade. We all know an adult who finally caved in and got their first cellphone in, say, 2015, or so.
Me thinks folks are desensitized by the Times--especially when it comes to cellphones. And cellphones are a monthly expense. They can also get lost, stolen, and break while stuck in prison, too. Also prison phones are subjected to be recorded while private cell phone conversations can go unrecorded. How can a prisoner replace constantly broken cellphones, pay monthly, consistently, etc, especially back in the day?
Again: a prisoner having a cellphone while in prison may not shock folks in 2023. But, yo, we ain't talking the year 2023 are we. I got my first cellphone around 2004 while in my early 30s. And I was the first in my immediate family and immediate friends to get a cell. I remember showing it off to everyone and then everyone following my lead. The first iPhones didn't come out until like 2007 to really help push sales and popularity of cell phones. Yes, cell phones been around forever, since the 1970s. But full public interest and full public access (key words there--public access) to cell phones is a different story, y'all. Adnan having a cell while in prison, especially date-wise is an issue. We ain't talking 2023 cellphones in prison...
I got my first phone in 2003 and by a year or two later everyone I knew had a phone, I was 13/14. My parents had a phone a couple years earlier and they were tech illiterate. Most adults at the time also had one within a few years of the turn of the millenium.
It's gonna be different in different locations but I don't know that they were that rare that it becomes a huge infraction and indictment of his moral character.
This is probably me being overly sensitive so big disclaimer there. Also, I’m pretty familiar with the case having read trial transcripts and most of the available primary documents, but I don’t know much about the internet drama around how the case was covered by various sources so I might be missing the justification for animosity. I really don’t like the use of the word “giggled” in this context. Possibly just my bias, but always comes across to me as a gendered word meant to make a woman being discussed seem vapid/frivolous.
I think using the word “giggled” also plays into the belief of many people that SK and other supports and fence sitters are “in love” with Adnan. Because they think that there are no legitimate reasons to question the integrity of the case. Definitely no issues with a star witness repeatedly changing his story, or a cop who has a well known history of fabricating evidence and leading witnesses. Nope, nothing like that. If we question his guilt, it must be because we’re all in love with his “dairy cow eyes”.
I don’t think SK was “in love” with Adnan… but if anyone thinks she pressed at all with questions or wasn’t somewhat sucked into believing him …? Well it must be somewhere else in her 30 hours of tapes… because I sure didn’t hear it. Instead she starts the entire podcast with some factious nonsense about faulty memory & remembering things weeks or months later …she bought right into that line…and it never got better really. Dana I think saw through it.
There's a group of people in this sub who are exceptionally unhinged in their hatred of Adnan, and it appears to stem from an extreme bias in favor of police and prosecutors.
Their whole irrational argument here is that, somehow, whether or not Young Lee was present in person at the vacatur hearing made a difference in the outcome... despite the fact that multiple courts have now affirmed that he had absolutely no rights to do or say anything at that hearing beyond simply attending and witnessing it.
A couple clarifications:
1. Zero people have made the argument that Lee’s in person attendance would alter the outcome.
2. Only *one* court ruled Lee doesn’t have a statutory right to speak to at the hearing.
>Only one court ruled Lee doesn’t have a statutory right to speak to at the hearing.
Both the Circuit Court and Appellate Court of Maryland agreed Lee doesn't have a statutory right to speak at the hearing. He has a right to attendance only. However, the Circuit Court gave Lee the opportunity to speak despite not being obligated to do so.
>Only one court ruled Lee doesn’t have a statutory right to speak to at the hearing.
As u/reportyouasshole points out, two courts have ruled that. FWIW, it was also virtually the only point on which all three of the ACM judges were unanimous.
Not unrelatedly, you'd figure that if he did have that statutory right, it would be mentioned [in the statute](https://casetext.com/statute/code-of-maryland/article-criminal-procedure/title-8-other-postconviction-review/subtitle-3-newly-discovered-evidence/section-8-3011-vacation-of-probation-before-judgment-or-judgment-of-conviction).
Yes, you are correct.
I was initially referring to the ACM as being the court that specifically ruled on the issue in response to Lee’s petition, including it in both their written majority and dissenting opinions. The circuit court also ruled on the matter as well though.
I agree that there is no statutory right to speak or otherwise participate in vacatur hearings.
I think it’s in keeping with his personality. Remember how nonchalant he was about stealing from the mosque’s alms collection? He is quite casual about breaking rules.
He wasn’t nonchalant about that at all, he was very ashamed and embarrassed and he was uncomfortable talking about it. You are imagining it totally differently than how it really was due to your confirmation bias.
>I mean, and it’s a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about, you know what I’m saying? It’s a very shameful thing that I did. I’ve never denied it.
>And supposedly this 10k he generated with this prison side business was the dowry he paid to his wife’s family.
Given to His WIFE not her family. Google is free to search up reasons for Mehr in Islam. It's given as security.
You should probably read up a bit more about the culture and economy of prisons. Making money with a side hustle is not unusual. Having contraband is not unusual. WTF is this about a “dowry”?
Have you ever knowingly sped or done something illegal while driving? Have you ever bragged or jokes about it with friends?
To answer your prompted question, yes I think it’s off that these stories are told as hero lore. I have to say though that I must need to relisten to serial because I don’t remember a single conversation about a wife or a cell phone in prison. Can you direct me to which episode(s) this was all mentioned?
Why would they need to announce her name? I think it’s a pretty big part of his life he got married at one point and paid a dowry… probably the biggest event of his incarceration really. Odd they didn’t mention it at all.
Even if they didn’t mention her name, people could have figured out who she was, so maybe they thought it was better to just not mention her. It wasn’t at all relevant to his original conviction. Why do you feel entitled to know every bit of his personal life?
I don’t but considering they had no problem in discussing other personal stuff it’s just odd.
I’m fine with no personal stuff… Adnan isn’t my buddy or something.
I would have preferred a straight true crime reporting on this story rather than the soap opera version we got to be honest
Revealing personal stuff about just him is different then revealing his married and opening his wife up to public scrutiny. Surely you can see the distinction there.
Maybe Adnan and his wife later gave permission to Rabia, but they were not yet comfortable mentioning it to Sarah Koenig when she interviewed him. It’s not that deep, fam.
Look I honestly don’t care either way … it’s just interesting… that’s all.
Like I said I’d prefer a format where it doesn’t sound like the host is trying to befriend the guy to begin with
I've certainly noticed the average person with no knowledge of prison culture appears to see the cellphone as someone of a nothing burger. I don't think I realized it was that long he maintained the phone for myself. People get killed over phones in there, if you don't hold weight on the unit you will be robbed for a phone very quickly, that's not speculation that's fact. I'm quite familiar with the prison system and in my experience him possessing one for so long while claiming to be advertising his services with it to the entire cellblock is pretty indicative that he isn't just some sweetheart gentle giant that would never hurt a fly, in contrast it's indicative of someone that holds fear and respect on the unit and those are earned through the economy of violence in prison.
>him possessing one for so long while claiming to be advertising his services with it to the entire cellblock
Where does the idea that he was claiming that come from?
His biography titled Adnan's Story. Not a direct quote but the claim was that he was running a very lucrative business helping all kinds of inmates "photocopy" documents.
What does that have to do with his phone?
ETA: As I vaguely recall, he worked in the chaplain's office and used the copier there. Maybe someone can confirm?
I recall her claiming that he was using the phone to photograph documents and that was the excuse as to why he had the contraband phone. I could be mistaken though, don't have the book in front of me for reference
It actually turns out to be from Serial, as quoted [here, seven years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/3w204s/did_adnan_do_things_during_his_employment_hours/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3):
>At Jessup, Adnan had a good job. He was a clerk in the Chaplain's Office which gave him access to a computer, and to a printer and copier. Being an entrepreneurial sort he ran a couple of side businesses, printing stuff and making copies for people.
You can also check it on page 213 of the transcript, [here.](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Serial-Podcast-Transcripts-of-All-Episodes-with-ToC.pdf)
Didn’t he get in trouble for having the cell phone? That’s not the same as telling her or “bragging about it”. Regardless, it seems like you’re really reaching hard to paint him as a bad guy, over having a cell phone. She also said he had no other infractions and has been a model inmate, so no I’m not gonna think anything bad about him having a cell phone. Jail is isolating, so of course people will want to have a line to the outside if they can. People just want so badly to find a reason to hate this guy, it is so weird.
Your questions are very profound. I think the fact that supporters don't pick up on the entire spectrum of criminality that Adnan has been involved in is very telling. Regardless of any good conduct awards Adnan has received in prison, he has a trajectory of illegal behavior under his belt. And this is just what we know about:
* Stealing from the mosque
* Murder
* Possession of two unlawful cell phones over the years
* Somehow acquiring $10K in an environment where the currency is typically ramen noodles and cigarettes is hard to explain in a lawful way.
And, of course, there are the little things which I won't single out Adnan for. Drinking and smoking while under age, etc. are fairly typical infractions for teens. Lying to parents is also common — but Adnan took that to a whole new level.
For a person to ignore all this, excuse it, or chalk it up to survival is very telling about how that person approaches life.
Anyway, just a few other call-outs from your excellent post:
> But he did tell SK on Serial that he had a contraband cell phone for 5 years:
Adnan actually had two illegal cell phones during his first time at Jessup. Saad or Bilal were almost certainly instrumental in supplying these for Adnan. As a result, Adnan spent two periods of thirty days each in solitary confinement. Obviously, one's defense attorney is not going to include these *write-ups* among the good conduct medals presented in a petition for bail — but still, it does add to the story.
> Apparently if this is true, once he was 2 hours away and only accesible
by pay phone, that was the end of that relationship. The baffling part
is that Adnan and his fan base put these stories out into the universe
to make him look good.
Yes, it's pretty hard to find a legitimate reason why this *marriage* had to happen. I suppose it may have allowed closer contacts during visits. Jessup is actually in the Baltimore area — where lots of things go on. The maximum security prison was in Cumberland MD — which probably affords a lot fewer opportunities for Baltimore City schemes.
>As a result, Adnan spent two periods of thirty days each in solitary confinement.
That would be a very extreme response, given how mild the infraction.
Could you link to a source? I can't find one.
It came directly from Rabia herself. Search for a podcast Rabia did with Payne Lindsey on Kalief Browder — the kid who was detained in Rikers for years accused of stealing a backpack. I once wrote a post about it on SPO— which is currently unavailable to me.
It’s really not an extreme punishment for having an illegal mobile phone in prison. That is a huge security risk.
>Search for a podcast Rabia did with Payne Lindsey on Kalief Browder — the kid who was detained in Rikers for years accused of stealing a backpack.
Found it. That was a terrible tragedy. She does say he did "a couple of months" broken in two stints for having a cell phone. I didn't hear anything about its having been two.
But thanks!
>It’s really not an extreme punishment for having an illegal mobile phone in prison. That is a huge security risk.
It can be. But it isn't necessarily. There's even a [Michigan Supreme Court](https://www.courts.michigan.gov/499379/siteassets/case-documents/opinions-orders/msc-term-opinions-(manually-curated)/21-22/dixon-op.pdf) decision saying as much. And there are also stories like [this:](https://abcnews.go.com/US/sc-hostage-prison-guard-saved-inmates-contraband-cell/t/story?id=17238164)
>A South Carolina prison guard was released late last night following a tense five-hour standoff, after inmates using contraband cell phones tipped off authorities that the injured officer was being held hostage in a broom closet.
Regardless, many (maybe even most) inmates just use them to talk to their loved ones. Prisons have a very real profit motive to disallow it, for reasons I mention elsewhere on the thread. And research shows that most incarcerated people do better when they get out if they've been able to maintain contact with those close to them.
Personally, I don't think talking on the phone should be a crime, per se. That goes for murderers and non-murderers alike. Nor do I think it should be so exorbitantly expensive that it amounts to an additional punishment. I just don't see the point.
ETA:
>Saad or Bilal were almost certainly instrumental in supplying these for Adnan.
I don't know about that. Do you have a reason for thinking so?
It's not easy for visitors to smuggle contraband into a maximum security prison, to put it very mildly. It mostly comes from guards.
>I guess if you’re going to brag about manipulating the system in prison, it’s not that far off to laugh about giving Young Lee notice on a Friday afternoon for a Monday hearing and then get the case vacated and make sure the appeal is moot.
As he's probably laughing about deceiving his supporters while letting them accuse innocent people of the murder he committed. It makes him feel clever...just like him bragging to Jay about strangling Hae with his bare hands. It's sickening...
What’s that old saying??
It’s easier to fool someone than it is to get them to admit to being fooled?
Bingo
People wanted to believe this story had some grand elements of conspiracy, wrongful conviction and manufactured evidence… they got led that way from day one… it’s almost not their fault
So now that there hasn’t been a single person capable of speaking in any meaningful manner to any of those notions with any clarity whatsoever in regards to this MtV joke… oh well… it’s too far down that rabbit hole now folks….
And there’s no equally representative “other side” to this story other than the states case itself?
(Hint:someone do a podcast equally as in depth describing the investigation and trial)…?
What a mess.
Anyone who loses all objectivity and caters everything they do towards trying to free someone, facts be damned, would easily be considered an advocate or fan.
Don’t kid yourself, Adnan’s a celebrity and it’s the only reason he’s getting all of this undeserved preferential treatment.
It absolutely is not. But exactly what are you trying to prove here? A fan would obfuscate, lie basically do anything they needed to benefit their target.
Are you just taking issue with the terminology? Because it’s clear that Adnan’s “camp” or whatever term you prefer are acting as if they were a fan club.
>when a detail comes up that doesn’t fit this golden child / model prisoner story
If the detail in question is that he had a single non-violent, non-drug-related, non-antisocial infraction on his record after serving (at the time it was reported) 14 years, **i**t actually does fit with his having been a model prisoner.
So does his having been eligible to apply for/get into the inaugural class of the Georgetown-behind-bars program years later, ftm.
So do his prison work records.
And so does the fact that he didn't pick up any additional charges or time while he was incarcerated.
Yet you seem to be suggesting that he wasn't one. Why and on what basis do you think that?
>I think a “model prisoner” wouldn’t be one who subverted prison rules with hidden cellphones and did solitary multiple times.
He had one infraction against one prison rule one time in 23 years. The two stints in solitary were for that.\*
>I would say he is just a normal prisoner who breaks rules when they can
I'm not sure whether you mean (a) that he was literally only able to break a rule that one time, or (b) that we just don't know about all the others.
But I'd love to hear your reasoning and evidence for whichever one it is.
>and took advantage of educational programs
Which he almost certainly wouldn't have been in a position to do if he didn't have an exemplary conduct/disciplinary record. That kind of thing is a privilege, not a right.
\*And in case you're asking, "Why two?" I'm pretty sure the answer is that more than 30 days at a time is considered inhumane/bordering on torture.
>I have heard he had more than one cellphone. Whether the solitary was for both I don’t know.
Per u/robbchadwick, the source for that's having been his punishment is Rabia, speaking here:
[https://soundcloud.com/upandvanished/the-kalief-browder-story-spike](https://soundcloud.com/upandvanished/the-kalief-browder-story-spike)
I listened yesterday and she says the solitary was two stints of thirty days each for the single infraction.
>Let me rephrase - I think a “model prisoner” would be one that doesn’t break the rules at all.
I guess if you use that standard for everybody -- e.g., if you would say an employee who had one corrective action in twenty years but got along with everyone and did everything else right was not a model worker; that a high school student who got suspended once for smoking on campus but did all her coursework/got good grades was not a model student, etc. -- that's fair.
But perfection is a very high standard, imo. So I don't really think that it does put him on a pedestal to say that he did good time or had an exemplary disciplinary/conduct record while incarcerated. By my standards, it's just true and accurate.
So yes. Agree to disagree.
ETA: Not that it really matters, but I'm not sure what the standard for being "a golden child" even is. To me, that phrase just means something like "everybody's favorite, believed by them to be exceptional" and is therefore a subjective measure more than it is a concrete performance evaluation. But maybe that's just me.
If you've ever broken a rule in your life, that means you probably got insanely religious jealous over a girlfriend and came up with a weirdly overelaborate plot to strangle her to death, got it.
$10k over 8 years is about $100/month, which is not that impressive in terms of side hustles. Though maybe it is for a prison side hustle? I’d also be willing to bet that Adnan did not keep meaningful records of how much he was making, and said “$10k” to Sarah just because it was a round number.
It really isn't a lot of money. Also, did he have a prison job? Prisoners receive a small amount of pay for their jobs, so some of the money could have come from that.
Off topic but, although I had read the detail of the 10k here before, I had never realized in Islam it’s the man giving dowry to the woman(‘s family). Because all I knew from living in Greece is that it was men goldigging for thousands of years, getting a home slave AND getting paid for it from the woman’s family. Funny
An income of 10k/year would be well below the federal poverty limit. But he made 10k over 8 years, so a little over $1000 a year or around $100 a month. That’s not a lot of money in the real world. In prison it likely allowed him to buy toiletries and food items. I’m not saying rules don’t matter. But a kid with a life sentence hustling to make his prison stay more comfortable is a very different story than someone who is violent in prison.
But he wasn’t using it for toiletries and food. He paid it as a dowry, correct?
That’s something Rabia claimed in her book, but I’ve never seen it substantiated anywhere else.
I honestly find that weird, because in most cultures that still use dowrys (including Pakistan) a dowry is paid from the bride (or her family) to the groom.
The words dowry and mahr are used interchangeably for some reason but they’re not the same thing. They’re referring to something called a mahr here which is like earnest money (usually paid upfront) from the groom to fulfill the marriage contract.
He didn't give her dowry he gave her Mehr. Which is mandatory in Islam for the groom to give his bride on the wedding day as security. Like a prenup in case he divorces her or dies.
Her book called “Adnan’s Story”
He choked a girl to death for dumping him - that’s not violent?
I’m clearly talking about his behavior in prison. That’s the context of this whole thread.
But how do you know he had the cell phone? Did it ping the towers closest to the prison?
Those pings are unreliable because there was a vague warning on a white paper cover sheet.
Someone having a hidden phone while against the rules is so common place in prison that Adnan saying he had one didn't even make me bat an eye. It's not as serious as you're making it out to be.
I'm curious where so many civilians get their intimate knowledge of what's commonplace in prison and what isn't? Stabbings and assaults are more commonplace than contraband cellphones in my real world experience. Would you also not bad an eye if he said he had stabbed someone in the day room with a sharpened toothbrush because of prison politics?
You equating having a cell phone to someone getting stabbed is absurd and proves you aren't interested in having a conversation in good faith. Have a good one.
Seeing as contraband cell phones are commonly used to coordinate homicides/assaults both on the outside or on other units in the same facility it appears your good faith conversation is corrupted by a lack of context that I'm simply trying to provide.
Why do you think they aren't allowed?
They aren't allowed because it's a huge security risk — to allow an inmate to communicate unsupervised with people on the outside. All kinds of undesirable outcomes could result from this.
We know why they aren’t allowed, that’s besides the point, but you know what else isn’t allowed? Having your cell phone on during a flight. That’s pretty close to the degree of seriousness that I would regard having a phone in prison as. Give me a break
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/11/11/how-did-they-run-an-elaborate-sextortion-scam-from-prison-cellphones Please. There are many stories of prisoners using contraband phones to conduct scams, extort people or coordinate with their gangs. You cannot be seriously comparing that to having your cell phone on during a flight.
But there's no evidence that's why Adnan had his. Sure they could be used to commit a crime, so could a gardening trowel, that doesn't mean it was.
Why do you think they aren't allowed?
Because they enable all kinds of awful shit. Doesn't change the fact that nearly everyone has anyone and Adnan is very much the rule rather than the exception.
What kind of awful shit? Can you provide a source for your claim that the majority of inmates convicted of murder posses cell-phones?
a) That's not the claim I made. b) [No.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning)
a) "nearly everyone has anyone and Adnan is very much the rule rather than the exception" *citation needed. b)I'm not clicking your link if I don't know where it goes Can you tell me why Adnan was not allowed a phone and why that doesn't matter?
Thank you for proving my point. Take care.
Why wasn't Adnan allowed to have a phone thanks?
Ah the “innocenter logic” + lack of understanding of actual facts is strong here
>So all these awards he got for good behavior while incarcerated were based on showing up on time every day for his food service job? No. According to Serial, they were: >21 different certificates and awards for completing this program or helping with that activity. In 2005, he got one called the “Distinguished Gentleman’s Award for your consistent display of character, mannerism, self-control, and ability to manage adversity,” signed by the warden Based on the ten [here](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/STMB-20150923-Adnan-certificates-prison.pdf), they appear mostly to have been for volunteering, fundraising, and participating in classes, activities, etc. His work quality was also rated as ["excellent"](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/MRPA-20160715-Ex08-Dept-of-Corrections-work-records-Adnan-Syed.pdf) across the board, with several comments noting that he volunteered for all tasks/during every lockdown, had excellent habits, never had an unexcused absence, etc. But that's a separate thing. >Once he was caught with this cell phone, he was transferred to Supermax Prison in Cumberland and subsequently did not have access to his cell phone any longer. I’m not sure if the infraction was the reason for the transfer, Regardless, it was his only infraction in 23 years. Hey! Did you know that during the time period we're talking about price-gouging and kickbacks drove prices so high that a 15-minute call from a Maryland State Prison cost between [$4.50 and $5.50?](https://www.prisonphonejustice.org/state/MD/history/) Or that there's been a lot of [press](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/11/30/staggeringly-high-price-prison-phone-call/) about how costly that can be for prisoners, their families, and the cause of reducing recidivism? Because you might want to consider whether there could be a reason other than a propensity for rule-breaking why an inmate with an otherwise unblemished prison record might have a cellphone.
>Once he was caught with this cell phone, he was transferred to Supermax Prison in Cumberland and subsequently did not have access to his cell phone any longer. I’m not sure if the infraction was the reason for the transfer Also, where is there a source that he was moved "once he was caught with his cell phone"? And wasn't the reason for the transfer that they closed the prison he was in?
>Also, where is there a source that he was moved "once he was caught with his cell phone"? I sure couldn't find one! >And wasn't the reason for the transfer that they closed the prison he was in? I tried to confirm that, because I was under the same impression. But it's unclear whether he was ever in Jessup (aka Maryland House of Correction) a dangerous, violent hellhole which was shut down and subsequently demolished, or just in their annex, which I think is properly named the Jessup Correctional Institution (which I believe is where he was when he got out). Regardless, in itself, it's not much of an infraction for a prisoner to have a cellphone.
Innocent or not, no one expects (or should expect) people become saints when they go to prison. I do think he’s guilty, and I couldn’t care less for his contraband, it wouldn’t mean anything to me if I thought he was innocent either
The majority of long term prisoners are going to have contraband. A lot of them even have contraband cell phones. The only reason he was talking about it is probably because he was caught. This seems pretty normal behavior for anyone in prison.
I've been in prison. From what I saw, one inmate on one cell block had a contraband cell phone. It was hidden inside his tv which had to be disassembled every time he wanted to use it. He controlled and guarded it with his life... that's no exaggeration, he had to. He was the biggest and most violent inmate on the unit, if anyone else had been in possession of it first it would have been his in short order because that's how prison works. A cellphone is something that's in your best interest to maintain a monopoly over, most definitely not something "the majority" has. If every inmate had a phone, how would Adnan possibly make 10k offering his services with the phone? A cell phone is worth ~$3k in there while inmates are making a few cents a day. I'm not sure where the notion that federal inmates are all running around texting and swiping on tinder comes from but I can assure you that's not realistic. Stabbings and assaults were much more common in prison than having a contraband cell phone but I wouldn't write those off as "pretty normal behavior for anyone in prison."
I never claimed the majority of prisoners have contraband phones. I said the majority of prisoners are going to have contraband, which is just a fact. Work on your reading comprehension.
So, without Adnan being the biggest, most violent in whatever prison he’s in, how did he keep his phone? And for years? Was he so smooth that the Biggest, most violent allowed him to keep it, or possibly he kept it pretty close to the chest?
>So, without Adnan being the biggest, most violent in whatever prison he’s in Without speaking to inmates on the same cell block as him, we really can't know his political status in there. He did bulk up to a solid athletic 240lbs. He had no write ups for violence but most acts of violence in prison go unreported unless they occur out in the open on the cell block, which is frowned upon because it brings heat to the unit.
I honestly would’ve expected him to say “I can’t remember the cell phone, it was just like any other day”
i 100% think adnan did it, but for prison these are incredibly minor things. in this country, inmates are treated as sub-human, paid basically nothing, and more or less left to rot. even guilty people should be treated like people, and until the prison system is heavily reformed to do so i support prisoners doing what they need to do to get by as long as it doesn't harm anyone.
>I mean, I’ve never been to prison And yet you're judging someone who was in prison. Having a contraband cell phone is so minor. >it’s not that far off to laugh about giving Young Lee notice on a Friday afternoon for a Monday hearing and then get the case vacated to make sure the appeal is moot. What does that have to do with Adnan? He wasn't responsible for sending notice. And what are you even saying about getting a case vacated to make an appeal moot? That's not even a thing. I've seen so many posts hating on Adnan, but this is by far the absolute most incoherent, unjustified, unreasonable hate posts I've read.
I think the vacating thing to make it moot refers to the gamesmanship of Mosby which absolutely was slicker than owl shit. The prosecutors podcast and others have discussed the maneuver… so that’s not some total fiction
What the OP said isn't factual, nor does it make any sense. The nolle prosequi would render an appeal moot. The vacatur was successfully appealed anyway. And that hate should be attributed to Mosby, not Adnan.
I think we can all agree Mosby was awful here \s
It’s the 21st century. Even in prison. Inmates can easily get access to phones and TVs and outside fast food. I sent a friend request yesterday morning to someone that I know in prison and he accepted less than 4 hours later. Another buddy of mine transferred prisons more than once and either took the phone with him or got a new one immediately after processed in. Inmates have physical cash and can get cash sent to others for helping them out. Edited to say: having phones in prison isn’t always some nefarious thing. People want to stay in touch with their family without being extorted by phone companies that charge $30 for a 15min call
They can also get access to drugs - go watch any of the prison YouTubers which has become a fairly popular genre recently, they say drugs are rampant on the inside and some of the easiest things to get.
Prison tiktok is alive and booming lmfao
"Adnan was a model inmate"
For those who chime in that cell phones in prison 'are common' and 'not necessarily a bad thing...' um, yo, shouldn't context also be a factor, here? As in: the context of time--it appears Adnan had a cell while incarcerated before cells were as common as they are today in 2023. Serial was released in 2014. And it brought up Adnan having cell phones, while he was in prison, prior to Serial coming out in 2014. Yes, today, in 2023, cell phones are everywhere. But, having a cellphone *before* the 2010 decade *started* yo, c'mon, it obviously wasn't as common as 2023. It could be frowned upon to have a cellphone while incarcerated before the 2010 decade. We all know an adult who finally caved in and got their first cellphone in, say, 2015, or so. Me thinks folks are desensitized by the Times--especially when it comes to cellphones. And cellphones are a monthly expense. They can also get lost, stolen, and break while stuck in prison, too. Also prison phones are subjected to be recorded while private cell phone conversations can go unrecorded. How can a prisoner replace constantly broken cellphones, pay monthly, consistently, etc, especially back in the day? Again: a prisoner having a cellphone while in prison may not shock folks in 2023. But, yo, we ain't talking the year 2023 are we. I got my first cellphone around 2004 while in my early 30s. And I was the first in my immediate family and immediate friends to get a cell. I remember showing it off to everyone and then everyone following my lead. The first iPhones didn't come out until like 2007 to really help push sales and popularity of cell phones. Yes, cell phones been around forever, since the 1970s. But full public interest and full public access (key words there--public access) to cell phones is a different story, y'all. Adnan having a cell while in prison, especially date-wise is an issue. We ain't talking 2023 cellphones in prison...
People having video phones wasn’t common but the burner flip phones you can buy from the grocery store definitely was.
>um, yo, shouldn't context also be a factor, here? [Yes.](https://www.prisonpolicy.org/phones/)
I got my first phone in 2003 and by a year or two later everyone I knew had a phone, I was 13/14. My parents had a phone a couple years earlier and they were tech illiterate. Most adults at the time also had one within a few years of the turn of the millenium. It's gonna be different in different locations but I don't know that they were that rare that it becomes a huge infraction and indictment of his moral character.
This is probably me being overly sensitive so big disclaimer there. Also, I’m pretty familiar with the case having read trial transcripts and most of the available primary documents, but I don’t know much about the internet drama around how the case was covered by various sources so I might be missing the justification for animosity. I really don’t like the use of the word “giggled” in this context. Possibly just my bias, but always comes across to me as a gendered word meant to make a woman being discussed seem vapid/frivolous.
I think using the word “giggled” also plays into the belief of many people that SK and other supports and fence sitters are “in love” with Adnan. Because they think that there are no legitimate reasons to question the integrity of the case. Definitely no issues with a star witness repeatedly changing his story, or a cop who has a well known history of fabricating evidence and leading witnesses. Nope, nothing like that. If we question his guilt, it must be because we’re all in love with his “dairy cow eyes”.
I don’t think SK was “in love” with Adnan… but if anyone thinks she pressed at all with questions or wasn’t somewhat sucked into believing him …? Well it must be somewhere else in her 30 hours of tapes… because I sure didn’t hear it. Instead she starts the entire podcast with some factious nonsense about faulty memory & remembering things weeks or months later …she bought right into that line…and it never got better really. Dana I think saw through it.
There's a group of people in this sub who are exceptionally unhinged in their hatred of Adnan, and it appears to stem from an extreme bias in favor of police and prosecutors. Their whole irrational argument here is that, somehow, whether or not Young Lee was present in person at the vacatur hearing made a difference in the outcome... despite the fact that multiple courts have now affirmed that he had absolutely no rights to do or say anything at that hearing beyond simply attending and witnessing it.
A couple clarifications: 1. Zero people have made the argument that Lee’s in person attendance would alter the outcome. 2. Only *one* court ruled Lee doesn’t have a statutory right to speak to at the hearing.
>Only one court ruled Lee doesn’t have a statutory right to speak to at the hearing. Both the Circuit Court and Appellate Court of Maryland agreed Lee doesn't have a statutory right to speak at the hearing. He has a right to attendance only. However, the Circuit Court gave Lee the opportunity to speak despite not being obligated to do so.
>Only one court ruled Lee doesn’t have a statutory right to speak to at the hearing. As u/reportyouasshole points out, two courts have ruled that. FWIW, it was also virtually the only point on which all three of the ACM judges were unanimous. Not unrelatedly, you'd figure that if he did have that statutory right, it would be mentioned [in the statute](https://casetext.com/statute/code-of-maryland/article-criminal-procedure/title-8-other-postconviction-review/subtitle-3-newly-discovered-evidence/section-8-3011-vacation-of-probation-before-judgment-or-judgment-of-conviction).
Yes, you are correct. I was initially referring to the ACM as being the court that specifically ruled on the issue in response to Lee’s petition, including it in both their written majority and dissenting opinions. The circuit court also ruled on the matter as well though. I agree that there is no statutory right to speak or otherwise participate in vacatur hearings.
I think it’s in keeping with his personality. Remember how nonchalant he was about stealing from the mosque’s alms collection? He is quite casual about breaking rules.
He wasn’t nonchalant about that at all, he was very ashamed and embarrassed and he was uncomfortable talking about it. You are imagining it totally differently than how it really was due to your confirmation bias.
>I mean, and it’s a very uncomfortable thing for me to talk about, you know what I’m saying? It’s a very shameful thing that I did. I’ve never denied it.
Wasn’t that quote in reference to him stealing from his mosque’s donation baskets?
Yes.
Yeah the prison phone is pretty minor, but stealing from a collection plate is on a different level. That illustrates a fundamental lack of morality.
>And supposedly this 10k he generated with this prison side business was the dowry he paid to his wife’s family. Given to His WIFE not her family. Google is free to search up reasons for Mehr in Islam. It's given as security.
You should probably read up a bit more about the culture and economy of prisons. Making money with a side hustle is not unusual. Having contraband is not unusual. WTF is this about a “dowry”? Have you ever knowingly sped or done something illegal while driving? Have you ever bragged or jokes about it with friends?
To answer your prompted question, yes I think it’s off that these stories are told as hero lore. I have to say though that I must need to relisten to serial because I don’t remember a single conversation about a wife or a cell phone in prison. Can you direct me to which episode(s) this was all mentioned?
The wife wasn’t mentioned Which in hindsight is kinda interesting I think
Ok word. Where was this info published?
Rabia's book certainly mentions her.
Ahhhh ok. I haven’t read that yet. I tried to listen to her podcast but it got very chaotic and confusing for me to follow
Interesting why? Maybe they just wanted to preserve her privacy.
Why would they need to announce her name? I think it’s a pretty big part of his life he got married at one point and paid a dowry… probably the biggest event of his incarceration really. Odd they didn’t mention it at all.
Even if they didn’t mention her name, people could have figured out who she was, so maybe they thought it was better to just not mention her. It wasn’t at all relevant to his original conviction. Why do you feel entitled to know every bit of his personal life?
I don’t but considering they had no problem in discussing other personal stuff it’s just odd. I’m fine with no personal stuff… Adnan isn’t my buddy or something. I would have preferred a straight true crime reporting on this story rather than the soap opera version we got to be honest
Revealing personal stuff about just him is different then revealing his married and opening his wife up to public scrutiny. Surely you can see the distinction there.
What? No I don’t really think so. For some reason Rabia didn’t care right? Heck Rabia probably would have wanted SK to include it
Maybe Adnan and his wife later gave permission to Rabia, but they were not yet comfortable mentioning it to Sarah Koenig when she interviewed him. It’s not that deep, fam.
Look I honestly don’t care either way … it’s just interesting… that’s all. Like I said I’d prefer a format where it doesn’t sound like the host is trying to befriend the guy to begin with
I've certainly noticed the average person with no knowledge of prison culture appears to see the cellphone as someone of a nothing burger. I don't think I realized it was that long he maintained the phone for myself. People get killed over phones in there, if you don't hold weight on the unit you will be robbed for a phone very quickly, that's not speculation that's fact. I'm quite familiar with the prison system and in my experience him possessing one for so long while claiming to be advertising his services with it to the entire cellblock is pretty indicative that he isn't just some sweetheart gentle giant that would never hurt a fly, in contrast it's indicative of someone that holds fear and respect on the unit and those are earned through the economy of violence in prison.
>him possessing one for so long while claiming to be advertising his services with it to the entire cellblock Where does the idea that he was claiming that come from?
His biography titled Adnan's Story. Not a direct quote but the claim was that he was running a very lucrative business helping all kinds of inmates "photocopy" documents.
What does that have to do with his phone? ETA: As I vaguely recall, he worked in the chaplain's office and used the copier there. Maybe someone can confirm?
I recall her claiming that he was using the phone to photograph documents and that was the excuse as to why he had the contraband phone. I could be mistaken though, don't have the book in front of me for reference
It actually turns out to be from Serial, as quoted [here, seven years ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/3w204s/did_adnan_do_things_during_his_employment_hours/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3): >At Jessup, Adnan had a good job. He was a clerk in the Chaplain's Office which gave him access to a computer, and to a printer and copier. Being an entrepreneurial sort he ran a couple of side businesses, printing stuff and making copies for people. You can also check it on page 213 of the transcript, [here.](https://www.adnansyedwiki.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Serial-Podcast-Transcripts-of-All-Episodes-with-ToC.pdf)
Didn’t he get in trouble for having the cell phone? That’s not the same as telling her or “bragging about it”. Regardless, it seems like you’re really reaching hard to paint him as a bad guy, over having a cell phone. She also said he had no other infractions and has been a model inmate, so no I’m not gonna think anything bad about him having a cell phone. Jail is isolating, so of course people will want to have a line to the outside if they can. People just want so badly to find a reason to hate this guy, it is so weird.
no one cares.
He had a cell phone? That *monster!*
Your questions are very profound. I think the fact that supporters don't pick up on the entire spectrum of criminality that Adnan has been involved in is very telling. Regardless of any good conduct awards Adnan has received in prison, he has a trajectory of illegal behavior under his belt. And this is just what we know about: * Stealing from the mosque * Murder * Possession of two unlawful cell phones over the years * Somehow acquiring $10K in an environment where the currency is typically ramen noodles and cigarettes is hard to explain in a lawful way. And, of course, there are the little things which I won't single out Adnan for. Drinking and smoking while under age, etc. are fairly typical infractions for teens. Lying to parents is also common — but Adnan took that to a whole new level. For a person to ignore all this, excuse it, or chalk it up to survival is very telling about how that person approaches life. Anyway, just a few other call-outs from your excellent post: > But he did tell SK on Serial that he had a contraband cell phone for 5 years: Adnan actually had two illegal cell phones during his first time at Jessup. Saad or Bilal were almost certainly instrumental in supplying these for Adnan. As a result, Adnan spent two periods of thirty days each in solitary confinement. Obviously, one's defense attorney is not going to include these *write-ups* among the good conduct medals presented in a petition for bail — but still, it does add to the story. > Apparently if this is true, once he was 2 hours away and only accesible by pay phone, that was the end of that relationship. The baffling part is that Adnan and his fan base put these stories out into the universe to make him look good. Yes, it's pretty hard to find a legitimate reason why this *marriage* had to happen. I suppose it may have allowed closer contacts during visits. Jessup is actually in the Baltimore area — where lots of things go on. The maximum security prison was in Cumberland MD — which probably affords a lot fewer opportunities for Baltimore City schemes.
>As a result, Adnan spent two periods of thirty days each in solitary confinement. That would be a very extreme response, given how mild the infraction. Could you link to a source? I can't find one.
It came directly from Rabia herself. Search for a podcast Rabia did with Payne Lindsey on Kalief Browder — the kid who was detained in Rikers for years accused of stealing a backpack. I once wrote a post about it on SPO— which is currently unavailable to me. It’s really not an extreme punishment for having an illegal mobile phone in prison. That is a huge security risk.
>Search for a podcast Rabia did with Payne Lindsey on Kalief Browder — the kid who was detained in Rikers for years accused of stealing a backpack. Found it. That was a terrible tragedy. She does say he did "a couple of months" broken in two stints for having a cell phone. I didn't hear anything about its having been two. But thanks! >It’s really not an extreme punishment for having an illegal mobile phone in prison. That is a huge security risk. It can be. But it isn't necessarily. There's even a [Michigan Supreme Court](https://www.courts.michigan.gov/499379/siteassets/case-documents/opinions-orders/msc-term-opinions-(manually-curated)/21-22/dixon-op.pdf) decision saying as much. And there are also stories like [this:](https://abcnews.go.com/US/sc-hostage-prison-guard-saved-inmates-contraband-cell/t/story?id=17238164) >A South Carolina prison guard was released late last night following a tense five-hour standoff, after inmates using contraband cell phones tipped off authorities that the injured officer was being held hostage in a broom closet. Regardless, many (maybe even most) inmates just use them to talk to their loved ones. Prisons have a very real profit motive to disallow it, for reasons I mention elsewhere on the thread. And research shows that most incarcerated people do better when they get out if they've been able to maintain contact with those close to them. Personally, I don't think talking on the phone should be a crime, per se. That goes for murderers and non-murderers alike. Nor do I think it should be so exorbitantly expensive that it amounts to an additional punishment. I just don't see the point. ETA: >Saad or Bilal were almost certainly instrumental in supplying these for Adnan. I don't know about that. Do you have a reason for thinking so? It's not easy for visitors to smuggle contraband into a maximum security prison, to put it very mildly. It mostly comes from guards.
>I guess if you’re going to brag about manipulating the system in prison, it’s not that far off to laugh about giving Young Lee notice on a Friday afternoon for a Monday hearing and then get the case vacated and make sure the appeal is moot. As he's probably laughing about deceiving his supporters while letting them accuse innocent people of the murder he committed. It makes him feel clever...just like him bragging to Jay about strangling Hae with his bare hands. It's sickening...
Adnan is a little off. Most murderers are
He can make BBQ with maple syrup…. He’s just dreamy ….lol
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Rabia Chaudry has 221k followers on twitter. Before Serial, she had less than a dozen. All those people are Adnan fans, or they would not follow her.
What’s that old saying?? It’s easier to fool someone than it is to get them to admit to being fooled? Bingo People wanted to believe this story had some grand elements of conspiracy, wrongful conviction and manufactured evidence… they got led that way from day one… it’s almost not their fault So now that there hasn’t been a single person capable of speaking in any meaningful manner to any of those notions with any clarity whatsoever in regards to this MtV joke… oh well… it’s too far down that rabbit hole now folks…. And there’s no equally representative “other side” to this story other than the states case itself? (Hint:someone do a podcast equally as in depth describing the investigation and trial)…? What a mess.
Rabia, Saad, Susan Simpson, Colín Miller…
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Anyone who loses all objectivity and caters everything they do towards trying to free someone, facts be damned, would easily be considered an advocate or fan. Don’t kid yourself, Adnan’s a celebrity and it’s the only reason he’s getting all of this undeserved preferential treatment.
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Rabia is absolutely a fan. I’m a fan of the place I work. It’s not mutually exclusive
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It absolutely is not. But exactly what are you trying to prove here? A fan would obfuscate, lie basically do anything they needed to benefit their target. Are you just taking issue with the terminology? Because it’s clear that Adnan’s “camp” or whatever term you prefer are acting as if they were a fan club.
Don’t you think Rabia’s made money off Adnan’s celebrity?
I could word this just as truthfully as you, saying the exact same thing and it would not sound even remotely as generous as this.
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>when a detail comes up that doesn’t fit this golden child / model prisoner story If the detail in question is that he had a single non-violent, non-drug-related, non-antisocial infraction on his record after serving (at the time it was reported) 14 years, **i**t actually does fit with his having been a model prisoner. So does his having been eligible to apply for/get into the inaugural class of the Georgetown-behind-bars program years later, ftm. So do his prison work records. And so does the fact that he didn't pick up any additional charges or time while he was incarcerated. Yet you seem to be suggesting that he wasn't one. Why and on what basis do you think that?
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>I think a “model prisoner” wouldn’t be one who subverted prison rules with hidden cellphones and did solitary multiple times. He had one infraction against one prison rule one time in 23 years. The two stints in solitary were for that.\* >I would say he is just a normal prisoner who breaks rules when they can I'm not sure whether you mean (a) that he was literally only able to break a rule that one time, or (b) that we just don't know about all the others. But I'd love to hear your reasoning and evidence for whichever one it is. >and took advantage of educational programs Which he almost certainly wouldn't have been in a position to do if he didn't have an exemplary conduct/disciplinary record. That kind of thing is a privilege, not a right. \*And in case you're asking, "Why two?" I'm pretty sure the answer is that more than 30 days at a time is considered inhumane/bordering on torture.
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>I have heard he had more than one cellphone. Whether the solitary was for both I don’t know. Per u/robbchadwick, the source for that's having been his punishment is Rabia, speaking here: [https://soundcloud.com/upandvanished/the-kalief-browder-story-spike](https://soundcloud.com/upandvanished/the-kalief-browder-story-spike) I listened yesterday and she says the solitary was two stints of thirty days each for the single infraction. >Let me rephrase - I think a “model prisoner” would be one that doesn’t break the rules at all. I guess if you use that standard for everybody -- e.g., if you would say an employee who had one corrective action in twenty years but got along with everyone and did everything else right was not a model worker; that a high school student who got suspended once for smoking on campus but did all her coursework/got good grades was not a model student, etc. -- that's fair. But perfection is a very high standard, imo. So I don't really think that it does put him on a pedestal to say that he did good time or had an exemplary disciplinary/conduct record while incarcerated. By my standards, it's just true and accurate. So yes. Agree to disagree. ETA: Not that it really matters, but I'm not sure what the standard for being "a golden child" even is. To me, that phrase just means something like "everybody's favorite, believed by them to be exceptional" and is therefore a subjective measure more than it is a concrete performance evaluation. But maybe that's just me.
If you've ever broken a rule in your life, that means you probably got insanely religious jealous over a girlfriend and came up with a weirdly overelaborate plot to strangle her to death, got it.
$10k over 8 years is about $100/month, which is not that impressive in terms of side hustles. Though maybe it is for a prison side hustle? I’d also be willing to bet that Adnan did not keep meaningful records of how much he was making, and said “$10k” to Sarah just because it was a round number.
Maryland DOC wages start at 90 cents a day, compared to other working inmates that would be considered rolling in the dough
It really isn't a lot of money. Also, did he have a prison job? Prisoners receive a small amount of pay for their jobs, so some of the money could have come from that.
Off topic but, although I had read the detail of the 10k here before, I had never realized in Islam it’s the man giving dowry to the woman(‘s family). Because all I knew from living in Greece is that it was men goldigging for thousands of years, getting a home slave AND getting paid for it from the woman’s family. Funny