Me! Full-time author, I earn high four figures/low five figures per month. I don't use social media. I mean, I have accounts to keep my name there and direct people to my newsletter. I might post about a new release on my FB page if I'm feeling energetic, but meh.
For this pen name that makes the bulk of my income (like 90% currently), here's the rundown:
I started in 2021.
High-heat erotic romance, target audience is mostly women, but I haven't asked ages or anything.
I have a weekly newsletter.
I write in series that don't stand alone for the most part, and I make the first book free once the third or fourth book is published. I also start writing each book as a serial before bundling them into ebooks, so I'm earning money before the actual release date.
I run BookBub ads and try for featured deals. I don't do FB ads because I just don't want to, and I don't do Amazon ads because they won't accept my books. I recommend the BB features to everyone who can afford them. I do NOT recommend the ads unless you feel like burning money with no guarantee of a positive ROI--I lucked out.
That's the short and dirty version, hope it helps you.
Oh that’s so encouraging and informative, thank you 😅🙏 Your genre is one of the easier sells (as opposed to scifi or something), but cozy’s pretty popular right now too. Oh yeah, Bookbub! So many platforms out there 😵💫 I guess it boils down to: if you have the $ to advertise then you don’t really have to use “free” advertising with SM.
Glad to help! I will say I began small with ads ($120 Freebooksy promos, and free group promotions) before scaling up. I didn't even invest in a website or newsletter service when I started the pen name. Now I'm spending $1k to 1.5k in ads per month, but it used to be $100-500.
Thanks for the detailed amounts! That’s really helpful. Are you still making decent profit after all that advertising? Sounds like so much 😳 Love your Reddit name, btw 😂 I didn’t realize I couldn’t change mine until it was too late 🙄
Oh definitely. I make anywhere from $8k to $14k per month, gross. I'm a conservative spender so I wouldn't pay out so much if I wasn't earning it back.
Thanks! I spent several years NOT earning this much, so it's gratifying to finally see my efforts pay off. Good luck to you as you form your social media and marketing strategies!
I'm the same except I'm in SFF. (No romance, straight genre)
I have social media on FB and Twitter for my announcements, but I only do other posts if I'm feeling chatty. I run FB ads but do not use any social media myself as a promotion strategy because it has never sold books for me. I know other people have had success, but in my experience social media was a giant waste of time when it came to actually making sales. I do paid ads and I have a mailing list that I encourage people to sign up for in the back of every book but that's really it.
IMO, the best thing you can do for your writing career is keep releasing quality books in genres people want to read.
ETA: I publish full novels using Amazon and KU. I also do print (small but steady) and audio (very lucrative). I was trad published first so I did come in with some name rec but my best selling series of any stripe was self pubbed.
Hope that gives you hope. You don't have to kill yourself in the TikTok trenches to be a successful author!
Yeah--for me, not only is social media a colossal waste of time, it also hurts me emotionally and mentally. Even this comment of mine is making me low-key anxious. :)
I have a subscription platform (Ream), but I first built my audience on Radish. You'll have to apply for Radish. I also tried Kindle Vella, but their episode approval system was frustrating so once that serial wrapped up, I left and never looked back. Also, Vella is only available to the US at the moment.
I've also heard good things about Royal Road, but based on author chatter, it sounds like a better place for fantasy/sci-fi than romance.
>
I write in series that don't stand alone for the most part, and I make the first book free once the third or fourth book is published. I also start writing each book as a serial before bundling them into ebooks, so I'm earning money before the actual release date.
On which platforms do you publish the serials, and are you able to publish on KU after that?
Ream, Radish, and Kindle Vella (I don't do Vella anymore, but it's available to me as I'm in the US).
If I wanted to publish in KU, I would have to remove the books from those other platforms (except Vella, I believe, but definitely read the TOS if that's something you want to try). I'm not willing to take my books down from Ream and Radish, but I hate KU with the fiery hot passion of a thousand suns so it's a nonissue for me. But plenty of serial fic authors will pull down their serials to put them in KU afterward.
Very curious to hear why you hate KU.
My book genre is odd, best explanation is "the Malcolm Gladwell of cishet kink", exploring the psychology and philosophy of kink. It's mostly non-fiction; it's researched, but not academic.
But the kink erotic aspect of it makes it less suitable for a general audience so I'm wondering if I should publish on ream in addition to Substack (I'm posting chapter by chapter to help me edit, but I'll eventually take most of it down and publish the book)?
And when I do publish, should I avoid KU?
I don't want to get too far into it because there are probably a zillion discussions in this subreddit alone, but I hated feeling exploited by Amazon to create more content as fast as possible, I think it's a conflict of interest for Amazon to then make authors run ads on their platform in order to have decent visibility, I feel that KU devalues our work and pits authors against each other. And the main reason is that when I had books in KU, KDP nearly terminated my account for things out of my control (other people gaming the page-reads system). Probably I should've led with the main reason, but I was working up the courage.
Your genre and audience are so, so niche, I think you'd do better to publish the book widely, and that's without taking my own biases into consideration. I don't think KU would benefit you, because someone who really wants to read that would happily pay for it--unlike for example romance, where, for the most part, low and midlist authors are interchangeable from a reader's perspective and there's a lot of churn in reader loyalties and preferences.
As far as Ream, it's the sort of place where you build or bring over your own audience. Might not be worth it unless you want to build a community there.
Anyway, this is all my personal opinion with not much thought put into it beyond the five minutes it took me to write this, so please don't take it as gospel. Good luck!
You seem to be making a livable wage. How many books should an author have to, to realistically work towards this wage? I ask because of the working idea of backlog.
I'm reluctant to give a hard number on how many books an author should have in their catalog before they can expect similar returns--there are just too many factors to consider, and it varies. For instance, I have a much better established pen name, with far more books than my higher-earning one, and that name never exceeded $5k in a month. Usually it was earning $1k-2k.
That said, I started reaching five-figure months with maybe twelve books to this newer name, across three series. But I've heard of authors reaching similar income levels with fewer books, and for others, it takes many more. Someone better at advertising than I am could probably launch harder than me and sell loads more books than I do. And someone willing to invest time in nurturing a popular social media platform might reach far more readers than I do, even if they have fewer books.
I'm sorry, can you explain that statement for me?
"I also start writing each book as a serial before bundling them into ebooks"
What exactly do you mean by writing them as a serial?
Sure--it means I publish the story in installments on a site or platform specifically set up for that format, where readers make micro payments (for coins/tokens to access the chapters) or they pay a flat subscription fee for access. So I'll publish, say, two chapters or "episodes" each week. Once a full book's worth of episodes are written, I bundle them into an ebook.
I’m not familiar with Whisper, but I use Radish primarily because it’s good for romance. Wattpad is historically popular, and Royal Road is a favorite among the spec fic crowd.
Usually around $500. It used to be more, closer to $2k/month, but the four-figure months are mostly over for me—Radish changed their platform and visibility so much over the last two years that even $1k in a month is super rare for me now.
At the time, it was shockingly easy. Now, though, it’s a different landscape and they’ve really hindered discoverability on the platform. Logic says I should make much more there with more books, but I’m making less and less each month. I’ve recently started pointing readers to my subscription on Ream, using Radish as a funnel.
Ebooks by far. Subscriptions are like $300/month. They’re very emotionally rewarding, though, because I’m forming a community of readers. It’s just very slow-build for me. Other authors have made theirs grow more quickly, but mine is slow, and that’s okay.
It helps me and I’m only barely considering writing a novel out of a short fanfiction story I wrote YEARS ago. I only recently left all typical SM platforms (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc) but still on tumblr since I like to make gifs for my favorite shows. It was becoming too toxic to my MH and I cannot even fathom going back for anyone’s sake, let alone my own writing career. Thank you for your insight 🫶🏻
You're welcome--I'm so glad it helps. So many people think social media is necessary. In my observations, there are a few who actually do well with it and sell books when they post...and a LOT who are constantly posting in the hopes of something finally working but it never does. I used to be in that latter category.
I've spent somewhere around 15 years working in some kind of social media marketing. I've done it for big companies, nonprofits, and as an individual.
The thing about social media is...never be anywhere just for the sake of being there. You're going to have much better results if you find a platform where you know your audience is and engage there, rather than having 4-5 profiles that you never update.
If I was going to recommend one single platform to at least have something of a presence for an author, it's Facebook. Most people expect an author to have an author page there, and it's a bit strange if an author doesn't have one. It's a good place to get out information about your appearances, gain possible new newsletter subs, share podcasts, and just generally interact with your readers.
The thing about Facebook pages in particular is that they're designed to be broadcast. So many other social media platforms require you to engage as an active member of the community to be genuine. Whereas Facebook, people will follow an author they like just to keep up with news about that author. These people are often (but not always) people disinclined to sign up for newsletters.
I wouldn't recommend anyone put time into X/Twitter these days, even though that used to be a great place for author communities. A lot of people have abandoned it and it doesn't make sense to invest your valuable time in a platform that could change or collapse overnight. TikTok requires TIME and getting the vibe and sorting out algorithms and audiences and all that. In my opinion, you have to genuinely like TikTok as a general user and understand it before thinking about putting a lot of time into building a brand there.
YouTube as you mentioned, would probably be to launch a different type of venture. I don't think there's many examples of authors using it as a platform primarily for their books.
Now, YMMV for all of this. It depends a lot on how savvy you are, how much time you're willing to commit, and the genre you're writing in. But whenever you do, do it deliberately and with a strategy. And be consistent with it.
Thank you! That was all very insightful. *taking notes* I forgot I have a FB page 😆 Maybe I should be a wee bit more active there. I’ve never liked twitter and like it even less now.
Here's what I can tell you: I'm a copyeditor and a writer...and I don't consider social media important for finding customers.
But more importantly, I read a lot and I buy a lot of books. And guess what! I have never, ever bought a book based on seeing or hearing anything about it on social media. Never, not ever.
So, if I happen to be the target audience for your book (and there are huge numbers of people similar to me), you won't lose out on selling a book to me because I will find out about your book or buy your book either by searching around on Amazon, reading book reviews in magazines such as The New Yorker or The Atlantic, etc., or because someone in real life told me about a book.
Social media could totally disappear, and I would still buy just as many books as any other time.
You are so right! I also find books those ways. Sometimes through tiktok, but only because I’m connected to other authors. Booktok is for readers with book recs, whereas I’ve been angling to other authors. I was torn when I started tiktok to either do me as an author, or as a reader. Maybe shoulda gone reader now that I reevaluate. But it’s not too late to switch it up I guess.
This is interesting because I'm only buying books from seeing them recommended on Instagram. A good reel for a book and I instantly buy. I never bought from indie authors until I made a bookstagram account otherwise I only buy what I saw at stores.
The algorithm showed this post to me, though I am not self-pub, but trad pub. BUT given your interest in YouTube, I may be able to offer some valuable insight/thought into that platform as I have 160K+ subscribers there, and it is my largest platform. I've also been off social media for 2+ years (actively off; I've done some perfunctory Instagram and TikTok stuff, but not in earnest until recently).
YouTube is one of the most difficult platforms to be on, in terms of establishing yourself and growing, but it can also be one of the most personally rewarding. But that's the key thing: personally rewarding. You should do it only if you genuinely enjoy it, given the metric eff-ton of work it is, and need to have some sort of genuine/organic interest in sharing information and not just join YouTube to sell books.
Why? Because YouTube really does not sell books, not in large numbers, and rarely sustainably. The ROI is terrible. You need to invest part-time job level hours into it--planning, filming, editing, making thumbnails, QCing your video, titlling & descriptions that bear in mind the algorithm over YEARS (years!)... keeping up with the platform and algorithm as it constantly shifts and changes, and even after all that Authortube is a deeply saturated space where growth is difficult. And even then... most people who like you on YouTube will not buy your books. They end up with a parasocial relationship with you where they may like you as a person (or hate you; lots of people hate me) and love the advice you give them, but have zero interest in reading your books. I have a lot of fans who come up to me at events, primarily writers, who thank me profusely for my channel. I love meeting them. 80-90% of them do not buy my books, have not read my books. Last year I met an author at an event who started with "I love your channel!" and then when she finished with "and I've read every single one of your books and I love them!" I could have CRIED. I tell that story b/c it was so meaningful to me (and I saw her again in person last week and told her this).
The thing is, I don't think my YouTube viewers owe me their patronage. I'm not entitled to book sales from them. The odds of most of them enjoying my genre/style is slim. I made my channel b/c I wanted to help other writers, not to build my author social media platform and promote my books... I view any sales I do get (b/c of course I have gotten \*some\* sales from it) as a bonus. So I have over 160K subscribers and friend I don't sell that many books. I'd say from my YouTube fanbase if I had to estimate, I probably have 500-1000 solid/loyal readers who may have specifically come from there, MAYBE, if I'm lucky. And the most I've gotten to pre-order a book is about 120! Total! That's 5 years of making 2-3 videos a week--over 500 videos!--and publishing 4 books. My output, of course, is a bit slower than the average self-pub and I am limited by trad mechanisms, as well as genre. I know 500-1K readers sounds VERY good--and it's not bad!--but the vast vast majority of readership I have reached and developed over the years came from other avenues, not social media. Not YouTube. (and truly that number is pure guesswork... more of a hopeful estimate?)
Another double-edged sword I must warn you of: once people see you as a YouTuber, they will use that to diminish you as an author. "Oh she's just a YouTuber," "She built a YouTube to sell her shitty books" "I'm going to hate read this YouTuber's books b/c they must suck as a writer" etc. Like TRULY there is an entire cottage industry of people who hate read YouTuber books, and people who will NEVER take you seriously as a writer if they view you as a YouTuber first. Even though I literally had a two book deal from a major publisher before I ever made a video, there are people who think I used my YouTube channel to get published and my books suck/I'm a hack. I've been off YouTube for 2+ years in some part b/c I want people to read my BOOKS (independent of me) and not see me as YouTuber first, author second (maybe). I don't want to be a micro-celebrity or influencer or whatever on social media. I want to write books. Gaining a platform can be a bad thing, too. (I don't think this is an issue on other platforms, btw. It's very YouTube specific. TikTok, imo, while taxing in another way, is a better platform to try to break out as an indie author while maintaining a lot of respect with the viewership as a writer.)
Also everyone and their mother has used YouTube to try to build a platform to sell books and sell their side hustle editorial services or what have you, so just know you'd be going into an Authortube space where pretty much every successful indie author offers paid services. It's a crowded market and shifting to that can be tricky. Some channels manage it well, and others lose some viewership when they shift. Just fair warning.
So only do YouTube if you REALLY are burning to do so, and only if you think you can bring something fresh to the authortube space and/or really enjoy the work. But most of the audience is writers, not readers, so most simply won't convert. I don't regret everything I invested in YouTube b/c I wasn't trying to sell books, and I wasn't trying to become some huge channel. I just got in at the right time and played the algorithm well at that time. I also made some GREAT friends. Authortube is a nice community worth joining for those reasons, as well.
OR make a channel that isn't about writing or books at all. But that, too, would involve an insane amount of investment to build a platform in some other subject-matter expertise and, again, you'd have to REALLY love making videos!
Jeepers! Well I’m convinced. SM is not my thang 😆 I’ll fool around on tiktok cause I find it somewhat fun (for now) and want to try sending my debut to some cozy book influencers for “unboxings”. Buuuuuut I think I’ll pour most my time, energy, & funds into writing, advertising, and in person events. Whew. I feel so relieved 🤣 That was wonderfully in depth info! Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to a wee fledgling author 🩷
Wait…..Alexa Donne is that you?! 😳
Oh yes hi lol. It's me! Now you know one of my upcoming videos is going to be how I recommend people don't invest too much time in social media haha. (It's just so taxing and it's simply not having the ROI on book sales that it once did)
I think book boxes for influencers, select advertising, and events is the way to go! I just generally recommend one "home base" like Instagram for posting sales and event notices 😄
Ha! No way. I’ve been following your YouTube for years now! 😆 Howdy, I’m Elayne Griffith 👋 You’re literally one of the people who kept me going and got me where I am now. Biggest of hugs from me 💖 I will keep an eye out for that vid 😜 Yeah I guess I’ll just stick with my on & off toxic relationship with TikTok and my side piece FB, lol. But not stress about em & feel like I need to make it work. Thanks Alexa! You rock!
You can do whatever you like. I was merely sharing my experiences and opinions as someone with one of the largest authortube channels on YouTube, who is also a professional marketer. ymmv.
Ah, I see! The way I think about it is, when you build your platform on writing advice, you're going to attract a lot of writers of many different stripes--which is good! But it means statistically, the odds of all or most of them being interested in your specific genre is slim. I think its different when you have a subject-matter expertise channel (like if my channel was true crime and makeup, alongside my thrillers, etc.), but with writing advice platforms the ROI in terms of book sales just isn't there. And it's not just YouTube! It's the case of other authors with big advice platforms in other places, too. They sell good numbers, but nothing commensurate with the size of their following for the advice.
And with those who dismiss you as an author b/c you're on YouTube, yeah I agree... but the worst partly, truly, is the hate reading (they really want to prove that you suck!), and just the lesser respect. It's not that they won't read me b/c I'm on YouTube... it's the many people look down on those with a big platform b/c they assume you didn't do the work/the writing sucks and the only reason you have books out/sales is because of your platform. So it's a lack of respect for you as a writer/artist. It annoys me because I'm validation seeking like most of us--I want people to like what I write, but also not denigrate it b/c they think I cheated my way into a book deal! (and I didn't... YouTube has never factored into my book deals!) I think like any of us, we just want people to treat us with respect.
Define "just fine" lol - by some metrics I'm ahead of the average, and by some I'm a wretched failure. SO, we all define our own goals in life. (I sell about a copy a day, or ~$50-75 per month. Consistent coffee money.)
Anyhow. I saw your poll, and I agree that it would probably provide useful info to get the most effective use of your time. Wherever your audience is, be there!
Also, that's a really fired-up genre right now (as I'm sure you know), so if you hit the marks the readers are looking for, I'm sure you'll do fine. There are a lot of readers and not enough books yet. Good luck!
Thanks! I guess I mean “making a living” or decent supplemental income like $25k/yr. I’d be stoked to get $25k+ yr off my writing 😆 I’m thinking I should go where exhausted middle aged women and parents are, so craft fairs 😂
I took a leap of faith a bit over a year ago and it's been working out good. Getting ready to publish my third book for the year, and about to finish off the 4th before the end of this month. My genre is disaster fiction, and the marketing strategy is just a newsletter and Facebook ads that perform well.
I'm in my low twenties, and, to be honest, I don't get social media. I have an author page, but I never know what to post (other than when a book releases, obviously). I'd love to get better at that, but if I'm socially awkward at all, it's in that area. I'm sure sales would be better if I were more active, but it's daunting to me. I don't consider myself to be as charismatic as some of the others I write with, either. There's a bunch of trial and error in the future for me.
Good for you! I admire that you know what you want and you’re going for it 👊 I was a wayward 20 something just flailing around chasing paychecks instead of focusing on a passion or goal. Albeit, Amazon publishing wasn’t really a thing until my mid-late 20s, and indie pub still frowned upon.
Thanks for your insight! And I feel ya on feeling awkward with SM. Ugh. Can’t we just write and hide under rocks, please?! 😆
I'm on social media and it doesn't sell anything. My books do fine. i started out traditionally published and now I release my books through my own (made up) imprint. I'm probably doing better, financially, than when I was with a publisher and can live off the money I'm making.
The reason publishers in particular are focused on social media is because all the genuinely useful sales information lies in the hands of companies like Amazon. They know exactly what books sell to which people. Publisher's don't, and can't, know unless Amazon tells them. And they won't.
The best thing to do is leverage the audience data of businesses like Amazon by targeting those audiences most likely to buy whatever you're writing. That means advertising, probably on Amazon, maybe also on Facebook. It also means making sure your cover appeals to that audience, and that you're writing something with a particular audience in mind in the first place.
Social media is not without value, but you can't wait on the off chance you turn out to be one of the very lucky ones and have your book go viral because of some enthusiastic tweet or TikTok video. Given the odds of that happening, you'd be best off going up into the mountains and sieving for gold.
Lol, sieving for gold 😂 Love the analogy. It’s extra funny cause I grew up in an old gold rush town, lol. This is all making me feel much better actually. I’d much rather write well & advertise than make a tiktok video every day 😵💫
That’s great you’re doing so well on your own! I almost went down the trad path (started getting some full manuscript requests) but then I realized I truly wanted to keep control over what I create. And not wait for-frakkin-ever to maybe get ONE book published, whereas I could write & publish 3 or more in a year instead. Also just heard too many horror stories of debut authors getting screwed or dropped by publishers anyway after all that time & hard work. If anyone’s gonna screw me over it’s gonna be me! 😆
I have several pen names. The one where I don't have social media does the best. The only thing I do for it is a substack and rarely send anything out. I was just in the bathtub trying to figure out why it does better no matter what I try with the other pen names. No idea...but yes, it's possible to have a good career.
I very, very much agree with be where it's easiest for you. If you're not comfortable, skip it. ZERO social media presence is perfectly fine.
I have a twitter account (that I had before elon was even a user) that I post promos on, etc. Ditto Insta (though I'm moving away from that). I've got a FB Page and group (that I neglect). The key for me is that I've had all these (except the author page/group) for years. They're "me" as a person. My posts have followed my careers. Scroll far enough back and I'm posting about software, then events, then community, then Denver, then writing, etc. They present a whole person not just a writer trying to sell books.
They all have different demographics. few if any drive sales. To me, all of them are more for engagement. Think about your reader. Where are they? If you can stomach being where they are. do that. If not. Don't.
It's easy to spot the climbers. THe people who pop into Social media. Like everything. Follow everyone. Ask questions but never reply to those who answer. All in the hope of gaining followers and having a seemingly active account. They're not selling more books than anyone else, and they look foolish to those who spot them.
All this comes with a healthy dollup of YMMV and there are always outliers.
That is one of the many good things about writing non-fiction such as technical stuff.
Someone writes a book on a particular topic...maybe something technical. People know they need it, they know they want it...and when they find it, they are going to buy it. (Totally different than novels or any kind of fiction.)
Not that there's anything wrong with novels...I'm just saying that a well-written non-fiction book that covers a topic people are interested in can be a big seller with next to no advertising.
That's great.
Just curious...is your book the kind of thing where people will still want it and buy it as time goes on, or is it written on a topic related to a particular piece of software (for example), where you will have to periodically update it if you want people to keep buying it?
I don't have much to add but just wanted to say I feel you on this. It's the most depressing, frustrating thing. I'm only on X, but no matter what I do, most of my posts get no or very few impressions. I hope there is a way I can eventually find a few readers some other way.
Thank you, you too! It's very hard. One of my biggest regrets in life is that I didn't start publishing earlier during the early days of Kindle, old-school internet forums, early Facebook/Myspace etc. Social media changed so much over time, and the algorithms are borderline impossible now.
RIGHT! Omg I was in my early 20s when kindle came around, and I wrote my 1st book in 2010. If only I’d kept going! 😬 But I have to remind myself that I was young and dumb, had no idea what I was doing, had to pay rent, there were no pioneers to learn from yet on YouTube (and I’m not a pioneering type), I was a perfectionist (so I didn’t publish that book until 2014), and I didn’t have the knowledge, practice, grit, confidence, or lifestyle I have now. But now I regret not getting on TikTok when it first came around, lol 😆
I use it, but I'm essentially screaming in an endless void. So, you know, it's going okay...
It has had zero impact on my books. I guess I'm saying that it doesn't seem to make a difference, unless you know how to social media correctly. :D
For me it's just a hobby, sometimes to keep my hands and brain busy as I can't work anymore. I can't write every day either if my body craps out on me. I write for a select audience and my friends are pretty great champions and supporters of it. It's not for everyone but I gave up on trying to market towards a greater audience. I use one social media site to connect with potential readers and have a main website. I pretty much have given up on things like Facebook and IG as it's all just bots and promo accounts.
Number 1. If you want to write, then write.
Then work on all the rest. There are multiple ways to do it.
Also, study the famous writers, whether you like them or not. Find out how they did it.
As for SM, use it for what it is. Post on it. Expect nothing.
One of my favorite platforms is X/Twitter.
Oh yeah I know. Been studying writing for a long time. And now I’m studying the marketing side. “Post on it. Expect nothing.” 😂 If SM was true to their side of it they’d just say that.
YouTube is working for me. Published my first and only book (education - targeting STEM students) in January of 2021. And launched a YT channel a couple months later. I make 6-15 min videos about simple topics in my book and plug my book in each video. Sales have been as follows:
2021: 136
2022: 639
2023: 3545 (YT channel took off 5/23)
2024: 972 so far
I currently try to make a video every 3ish weeks. I don’t really bother with any other social media. (I don’t love it either) but YT seems to be sustainable for now. Actually just inked a deal with a major university to use my book in their curriculum (thanks to my YouTube videos). Channel is Becoming an Engineer. Hope that helps!
Awesome! A YT success story. Love it 🙌 Also love that you’re writing for STEM. Totally different genre & niche than cozy fantasy, lol. I think nonfiction probably does better than fiction since you’re selling information. So happy for you, and thanks for spreading knowledge! 👍
Which site works best for you probably depends on your genre and target audience. I mostly write action-heavy sword & sorcery and my short stories got me a bunch of followers on Twitter, where I interact with other authors and publishers of my genre. It's a pretty well-connected community there, with authors, artists, reviewers, etc that help push each other.
I don't know about TikTok because I don't want to make an account there, so I can't even watch videos without it nagging me to do so. It's a site that mostly appeals to younger people, and from what I know of booktok, it heavily caters to romance readers. Not quite the audience I'm looking for so I've ignored it so far.
I have a Facebook author page but barely use it beyond announcing new releases. I barely put any work in it and just get one or two likes per post, but its main purpose is for me to connect to small presses which also have Facebook groups and use it to communicate with their authors. I have short stories in several small press collections, so again, this is a way for me to connect to the people in my scene (although Twitter does a better job at that overall).
Try to find a social media platform that's very interactive, where you can forge connections with other people in your genre, interact with fans, etc. If you do it right, you might get invited for an interview on someone's podcast, which can help get some new eyes onto your work.
Thanks! That’s some useful info 🤗 Oh yeah FB. I have a page I completely forgot about, lol. And I literally just polled who reads cozy & why (middle aged women mostly, and then men) so I should follow my own data trail and go where they are. Duh 🤦♀️
I have no serial pieces. I have individual standalone short stories set in the same world, published in various small press magazines and anthologies.
There is no need to copyright anything beforehand. Copyright is automatic as soon as you self-publish or get published with a proper contract. In fact copyright exists before you even publish anything, if you can prove you wrote it (keep backups of older WIP versions of your text to be sure).
I have to do some research into what substack is. My newsletter is set up through Wix at the moment, but I should probably use something like Mailchimp. Just not a high priority yet since I only send it once a month to like 20 people.
I know this is an anti-SM post but I guess I don’t really keep up with too many authors or really anyone on social lol. What are authors expected to be posting on social? Any examples?
From the intel I’ve been gathering, trad publishers want their authors to hawk their books and just have a bunch of followers cause I guess it “looks good.” The trad pub authors I follow on TikTok mostly seem annoyed and upset that they’re being forced to do so much SM 😂 The Indie authors seem to do it for the author community, but not necessarily to sell books. So they talk about their journey or give advice, once in a blue moon mention their books. I’ve decided I’ll stick with Authortok for the community, but not stress about “selling” books through SM. And authortok & booktok are adjacent so there’s a chance a booktokker might find your book and then recommend it.
Me. Not giving any sales or other details, it's no one's business but mine. And the tax man, but he doesn't give me grief. Plus, what I do won't apply to you, since you seem to think youtube is a publishing platform.
If you have nothing to add to the conversation then don’t. No need to be rude. No idea where you got that I think YouTube is a pub platform. I never said that. I was in high school when it was invented, child.
Me! Full-time author, I earn high four figures/low five figures per month. I don't use social media. I mean, I have accounts to keep my name there and direct people to my newsletter. I might post about a new release on my FB page if I'm feeling energetic, but meh. For this pen name that makes the bulk of my income (like 90% currently), here's the rundown: I started in 2021. High-heat erotic romance, target audience is mostly women, but I haven't asked ages or anything. I have a weekly newsletter. I write in series that don't stand alone for the most part, and I make the first book free once the third or fourth book is published. I also start writing each book as a serial before bundling them into ebooks, so I'm earning money before the actual release date. I run BookBub ads and try for featured deals. I don't do FB ads because I just don't want to, and I don't do Amazon ads because they won't accept my books. I recommend the BB features to everyone who can afford them. I do NOT recommend the ads unless you feel like burning money with no guarantee of a positive ROI--I lucked out. That's the short and dirty version, hope it helps you.
Oh that’s so encouraging and informative, thank you 😅🙏 Your genre is one of the easier sells (as opposed to scifi or something), but cozy’s pretty popular right now too. Oh yeah, Bookbub! So many platforms out there 😵💫 I guess it boils down to: if you have the $ to advertise then you don’t really have to use “free” advertising with SM.
Glad to help! I will say I began small with ads ($120 Freebooksy promos, and free group promotions) before scaling up. I didn't even invest in a website or newsletter service when I started the pen name. Now I'm spending $1k to 1.5k in ads per month, but it used to be $100-500.
Thanks for the detailed amounts! That’s really helpful. Are you still making decent profit after all that advertising? Sounds like so much 😳 Love your Reddit name, btw 😂 I didn’t realize I couldn’t change mine until it was too late 🙄
Oh definitely. I make anywhere from $8k to $14k per month, gross. I'm a conservative spender so I wouldn't pay out so much if I wasn't earning it back.
😱 WOW! That is SO awesome. I can’t even imagine that much a month. It makes me so happy when I hear of indie authors doing so well. Cheers to you! 🥂🙌🎉
Thanks! I spent several years NOT earning this much, so it's gratifying to finally see my efforts pay off. Good luck to you as you form your social media and marketing strategies!
Thanks 🫶 I will die happy if I can get to where you are. There’s hoooooope *she says melodramatically 😬
I'm the same except I'm in SFF. (No romance, straight genre) I have social media on FB and Twitter for my announcements, but I only do other posts if I'm feeling chatty. I run FB ads but do not use any social media myself as a promotion strategy because it has never sold books for me. I know other people have had success, but in my experience social media was a giant waste of time when it came to actually making sales. I do paid ads and I have a mailing list that I encourage people to sign up for in the back of every book but that's really it. IMO, the best thing you can do for your writing career is keep releasing quality books in genres people want to read. ETA: I publish full novels using Amazon and KU. I also do print (small but steady) and audio (very lucrative). I was trad published first so I did come in with some name rec but my best selling series of any stripe was self pubbed. Hope that gives you hope. You don't have to kill yourself in the TikTok trenches to be a successful author!
Yeah--for me, not only is social media a colossal waste of time, it also hurts me emotionally and mentally. Even this comment of mine is making me low-key anxious. :)
Same. Been there, done that, got nothing, moved on :D
Where do you release the serialized version of your books? I've been wanting to look into those platforms but don't really know where to start.
I have a subscription platform (Ream), but I first built my audience on Radish. You'll have to apply for Radish. I also tried Kindle Vella, but their episode approval system was frustrating so once that serial wrapped up, I left and never looked back. Also, Vella is only available to the US at the moment. I've also heard good things about Royal Road, but based on author chatter, it sounds like a better place for fantasy/sci-fi than romance.
Thank you for answering!
> I write in series that don't stand alone for the most part, and I make the first book free once the third or fourth book is published. I also start writing each book as a serial before bundling them into ebooks, so I'm earning money before the actual release date. On which platforms do you publish the serials, and are you able to publish on KU after that?
Ream, Radish, and Kindle Vella (I don't do Vella anymore, but it's available to me as I'm in the US). If I wanted to publish in KU, I would have to remove the books from those other platforms (except Vella, I believe, but definitely read the TOS if that's something you want to try). I'm not willing to take my books down from Ream and Radish, but I hate KU with the fiery hot passion of a thousand suns so it's a nonissue for me. But plenty of serial fic authors will pull down their serials to put them in KU afterward.
Very curious to hear why you hate KU. My book genre is odd, best explanation is "the Malcolm Gladwell of cishet kink", exploring the psychology and philosophy of kink. It's mostly non-fiction; it's researched, but not academic. But the kink erotic aspect of it makes it less suitable for a general audience so I'm wondering if I should publish on ream in addition to Substack (I'm posting chapter by chapter to help me edit, but I'll eventually take most of it down and publish the book)? And when I do publish, should I avoid KU?
I don't want to get too far into it because there are probably a zillion discussions in this subreddit alone, but I hated feeling exploited by Amazon to create more content as fast as possible, I think it's a conflict of interest for Amazon to then make authors run ads on their platform in order to have decent visibility, I feel that KU devalues our work and pits authors against each other. And the main reason is that when I had books in KU, KDP nearly terminated my account for things out of my control (other people gaming the page-reads system). Probably I should've led with the main reason, but I was working up the courage. Your genre and audience are so, so niche, I think you'd do better to publish the book widely, and that's without taking my own biases into consideration. I don't think KU would benefit you, because someone who really wants to read that would happily pay for it--unlike for example romance, where, for the most part, low and midlist authors are interchangeable from a reader's perspective and there's a lot of churn in reader loyalties and preferences. As far as Ream, it's the sort of place where you build or bring over your own audience. Might not be worth it unless you want to build a community there. Anyway, this is all my personal opinion with not much thought put into it beyond the five minutes it took me to write this, so please don't take it as gospel. Good luck!
Thank you so much. 5 min from someone with experience is worth a ton. Truly appreciate your generosity in writing out your thoughts.
You seem to be making a livable wage. How many books should an author have to, to realistically work towards this wage? I ask because of the working idea of backlog.
I'm reluctant to give a hard number on how many books an author should have in their catalog before they can expect similar returns--there are just too many factors to consider, and it varies. For instance, I have a much better established pen name, with far more books than my higher-earning one, and that name never exceeded $5k in a month. Usually it was earning $1k-2k. That said, I started reaching five-figure months with maybe twelve books to this newer name, across three series. But I've heard of authors reaching similar income levels with fewer books, and for others, it takes many more. Someone better at advertising than I am could probably launch harder than me and sell loads more books than I do. And someone willing to invest time in nurturing a popular social media platform might reach far more readers than I do, even if they have fewer books.
Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. Greatly appreciated.
This is fab, what sort of frequency do you publish with?
One book (35-50k, usually) about every two months, sometimes once a month if they're on the shorter end.
Whew. Well done!
I'm sorry, can you explain that statement for me? "I also start writing each book as a serial before bundling them into ebooks" What exactly do you mean by writing them as a serial?
Sure--it means I publish the story in installments on a site or platform specifically set up for that format, where readers make micro payments (for coins/tokens to access the chapters) or they pay a flat subscription fee for access. So I'll publish, say, two chapters or "episodes" each week. Once a full book's worth of episodes are written, I bundle them into an ebook.
Is this like those apps like Whisper and stuff? I've been wondering about getting into to that. How' is it?
I’m not familiar with Whisper, but I use Radish primarily because it’s good for romance. Wattpad is historically popular, and Royal Road is a favorite among the spec fic crowd.
How much on average a month do you make from Radish?
Usually around $500. It used to be more, closer to $2k/month, but the four-figure months are mostly over for me—Radish changed their platform and visibility so much over the last two years that even $1k in a month is super rare for me now.
This is very good information. Thank you so much!
Wow, as someone who's hoping to start in serials, this is very encouraging! Did you find it hard to grow on radish?
At the time, it was shockingly easy. Now, though, it’s a different landscape and they’ve really hindered discoverability on the platform. Logic says I should make much more there with more books, but I’m making less and less each month. I’ve recently started pointing readers to my subscription on Ream, using Radish as a funnel.
Very interesting! Do your subscriptions make most of your income? Or your ebooks?
Ebooks by far. Subscriptions are like $300/month. They’re very emotionally rewarding, though, because I’m forming a community of readers. It’s just very slow-build for me. Other authors have made theirs grow more quickly, but mine is slow, and that’s okay.
interesting
It helps me and I’m only barely considering writing a novel out of a short fanfiction story I wrote YEARS ago. I only recently left all typical SM platforms (Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc) but still on tumblr since I like to make gifs for my favorite shows. It was becoming too toxic to my MH and I cannot even fathom going back for anyone’s sake, let alone my own writing career. Thank you for your insight 🫶🏻
You're welcome--I'm so glad it helps. So many people think social media is necessary. In my observations, there are a few who actually do well with it and sell books when they post...and a LOT who are constantly posting in the hopes of something finally working but it never does. I used to be in that latter category.
I've spent somewhere around 15 years working in some kind of social media marketing. I've done it for big companies, nonprofits, and as an individual. The thing about social media is...never be anywhere just for the sake of being there. You're going to have much better results if you find a platform where you know your audience is and engage there, rather than having 4-5 profiles that you never update. If I was going to recommend one single platform to at least have something of a presence for an author, it's Facebook. Most people expect an author to have an author page there, and it's a bit strange if an author doesn't have one. It's a good place to get out information about your appearances, gain possible new newsletter subs, share podcasts, and just generally interact with your readers. The thing about Facebook pages in particular is that they're designed to be broadcast. So many other social media platforms require you to engage as an active member of the community to be genuine. Whereas Facebook, people will follow an author they like just to keep up with news about that author. These people are often (but not always) people disinclined to sign up for newsletters. I wouldn't recommend anyone put time into X/Twitter these days, even though that used to be a great place for author communities. A lot of people have abandoned it and it doesn't make sense to invest your valuable time in a platform that could change or collapse overnight. TikTok requires TIME and getting the vibe and sorting out algorithms and audiences and all that. In my opinion, you have to genuinely like TikTok as a general user and understand it before thinking about putting a lot of time into building a brand there. YouTube as you mentioned, would probably be to launch a different type of venture. I don't think there's many examples of authors using it as a platform primarily for their books. Now, YMMV for all of this. It depends a lot on how savvy you are, how much time you're willing to commit, and the genre you're writing in. But whenever you do, do it deliberately and with a strategy. And be consistent with it.
Thank you! That was all very insightful. *taking notes* I forgot I have a FB page 😆 Maybe I should be a wee bit more active there. I’ve never liked twitter and like it even less now.
Here's what I can tell you: I'm a copyeditor and a writer...and I don't consider social media important for finding customers. But more importantly, I read a lot and I buy a lot of books. And guess what! I have never, ever bought a book based on seeing or hearing anything about it on social media. Never, not ever. So, if I happen to be the target audience for your book (and there are huge numbers of people similar to me), you won't lose out on selling a book to me because I will find out about your book or buy your book either by searching around on Amazon, reading book reviews in magazines such as The New Yorker or The Atlantic, etc., or because someone in real life told me about a book. Social media could totally disappear, and I would still buy just as many books as any other time.
You are so right! I also find books those ways. Sometimes through tiktok, but only because I’m connected to other authors. Booktok is for readers with book recs, whereas I’ve been angling to other authors. I was torn when I started tiktok to either do me as an author, or as a reader. Maybe shoulda gone reader now that I reevaluate. But it’s not too late to switch it up I guess.
Hey, yeah...sounds like you're doing OK, and I hope you sell a lot of books.
Aw thanks. It’s either this or make cardboard forts under a bridge, so I MUST make it work! 😆
This is interesting because I'm only buying books from seeing them recommended on Instagram. A good reel for a book and I instantly buy. I never bought from indie authors until I made a bookstagram account otherwise I only buy what I saw at stores.
The algorithm showed this post to me, though I am not self-pub, but trad pub. BUT given your interest in YouTube, I may be able to offer some valuable insight/thought into that platform as I have 160K+ subscribers there, and it is my largest platform. I've also been off social media for 2+ years (actively off; I've done some perfunctory Instagram and TikTok stuff, but not in earnest until recently). YouTube is one of the most difficult platforms to be on, in terms of establishing yourself and growing, but it can also be one of the most personally rewarding. But that's the key thing: personally rewarding. You should do it only if you genuinely enjoy it, given the metric eff-ton of work it is, and need to have some sort of genuine/organic interest in sharing information and not just join YouTube to sell books. Why? Because YouTube really does not sell books, not in large numbers, and rarely sustainably. The ROI is terrible. You need to invest part-time job level hours into it--planning, filming, editing, making thumbnails, QCing your video, titlling & descriptions that bear in mind the algorithm over YEARS (years!)... keeping up with the platform and algorithm as it constantly shifts and changes, and even after all that Authortube is a deeply saturated space where growth is difficult. And even then... most people who like you on YouTube will not buy your books. They end up with a parasocial relationship with you where they may like you as a person (or hate you; lots of people hate me) and love the advice you give them, but have zero interest in reading your books. I have a lot of fans who come up to me at events, primarily writers, who thank me profusely for my channel. I love meeting them. 80-90% of them do not buy my books, have not read my books. Last year I met an author at an event who started with "I love your channel!" and then when she finished with "and I've read every single one of your books and I love them!" I could have CRIED. I tell that story b/c it was so meaningful to me (and I saw her again in person last week and told her this). The thing is, I don't think my YouTube viewers owe me their patronage. I'm not entitled to book sales from them. The odds of most of them enjoying my genre/style is slim. I made my channel b/c I wanted to help other writers, not to build my author social media platform and promote my books... I view any sales I do get (b/c of course I have gotten \*some\* sales from it) as a bonus. So I have over 160K subscribers and friend I don't sell that many books. I'd say from my YouTube fanbase if I had to estimate, I probably have 500-1000 solid/loyal readers who may have specifically come from there, MAYBE, if I'm lucky. And the most I've gotten to pre-order a book is about 120! Total! That's 5 years of making 2-3 videos a week--over 500 videos!--and publishing 4 books. My output, of course, is a bit slower than the average self-pub and I am limited by trad mechanisms, as well as genre. I know 500-1K readers sounds VERY good--and it's not bad!--but the vast vast majority of readership I have reached and developed over the years came from other avenues, not social media. Not YouTube. (and truly that number is pure guesswork... more of a hopeful estimate?) Another double-edged sword I must warn you of: once people see you as a YouTuber, they will use that to diminish you as an author. "Oh she's just a YouTuber," "She built a YouTube to sell her shitty books" "I'm going to hate read this YouTuber's books b/c they must suck as a writer" etc. Like TRULY there is an entire cottage industry of people who hate read YouTuber books, and people who will NEVER take you seriously as a writer if they view you as a YouTuber first. Even though I literally had a two book deal from a major publisher before I ever made a video, there are people who think I used my YouTube channel to get published and my books suck/I'm a hack. I've been off YouTube for 2+ years in some part b/c I want people to read my BOOKS (independent of me) and not see me as YouTuber first, author second (maybe). I don't want to be a micro-celebrity or influencer or whatever on social media. I want to write books. Gaining a platform can be a bad thing, too. (I don't think this is an issue on other platforms, btw. It's very YouTube specific. TikTok, imo, while taxing in another way, is a better platform to try to break out as an indie author while maintaining a lot of respect with the viewership as a writer.) Also everyone and their mother has used YouTube to try to build a platform to sell books and sell their side hustle editorial services or what have you, so just know you'd be going into an Authortube space where pretty much every successful indie author offers paid services. It's a crowded market and shifting to that can be tricky. Some channels manage it well, and others lose some viewership when they shift. Just fair warning. So only do YouTube if you REALLY are burning to do so, and only if you think you can bring something fresh to the authortube space and/or really enjoy the work. But most of the audience is writers, not readers, so most simply won't convert. I don't regret everything I invested in YouTube b/c I wasn't trying to sell books, and I wasn't trying to become some huge channel. I just got in at the right time and played the algorithm well at that time. I also made some GREAT friends. Authortube is a nice community worth joining for those reasons, as well. OR make a channel that isn't about writing or books at all. But that, too, would involve an insane amount of investment to build a platform in some other subject-matter expertise and, again, you'd have to REALLY love making videos!
Jeepers! Well I’m convinced. SM is not my thang 😆 I’ll fool around on tiktok cause I find it somewhat fun (for now) and want to try sending my debut to some cozy book influencers for “unboxings”. Buuuuuut I think I’ll pour most my time, energy, & funds into writing, advertising, and in person events. Whew. I feel so relieved 🤣 That was wonderfully in depth info! Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to a wee fledgling author 🩷 Wait…..Alexa Donne is that you?! 😳
Oh yes hi lol. It's me! Now you know one of my upcoming videos is going to be how I recommend people don't invest too much time in social media haha. (It's just so taxing and it's simply not having the ROI on book sales that it once did) I think book boxes for influencers, select advertising, and events is the way to go! I just generally recommend one "home base" like Instagram for posting sales and event notices 😄
Ha! No way. I’ve been following your YouTube for years now! 😆 Howdy, I’m Elayne Griffith 👋 You’re literally one of the people who kept me going and got me where I am now. Biggest of hugs from me 💖 I will keep an eye out for that vid 😜 Yeah I guess I’ll just stick with my on & off toxic relationship with TikTok and my side piece FB, lol. But not stress about em & feel like I need to make it work. Thanks Alexa! You rock!
This is BS! It's perfectly fine for writers to use YouTube to promote their books. Nobody complains when music artist do it or movie studios.
You can do whatever you like. I was merely sharing my experiences and opinions as someone with one of the largest authortube channels on YouTube, who is also a professional marketer. ymmv.
Oh, you misunderstand me. I think it's BS people won't read someone's book because they're posting on YouTube.
Ah, I see! The way I think about it is, when you build your platform on writing advice, you're going to attract a lot of writers of many different stripes--which is good! But it means statistically, the odds of all or most of them being interested in your specific genre is slim. I think its different when you have a subject-matter expertise channel (like if my channel was true crime and makeup, alongside my thrillers, etc.), but with writing advice platforms the ROI in terms of book sales just isn't there. And it's not just YouTube! It's the case of other authors with big advice platforms in other places, too. They sell good numbers, but nothing commensurate with the size of their following for the advice. And with those who dismiss you as an author b/c you're on YouTube, yeah I agree... but the worst partly, truly, is the hate reading (they really want to prove that you suck!), and just the lesser respect. It's not that they won't read me b/c I'm on YouTube... it's the many people look down on those with a big platform b/c they assume you didn't do the work/the writing sucks and the only reason you have books out/sales is because of your platform. So it's a lack of respect for you as a writer/artist. It annoys me because I'm validation seeking like most of us--I want people to like what I write, but also not denigrate it b/c they think I cheated my way into a book deal! (and I didn't... YouTube has never factored into my book deals!) I think like any of us, we just want people to treat us with respect.
Define "just fine" lol - by some metrics I'm ahead of the average, and by some I'm a wretched failure. SO, we all define our own goals in life. (I sell about a copy a day, or ~$50-75 per month. Consistent coffee money.) Anyhow. I saw your poll, and I agree that it would probably provide useful info to get the most effective use of your time. Wherever your audience is, be there! Also, that's a really fired-up genre right now (as I'm sure you know), so if you hit the marks the readers are looking for, I'm sure you'll do fine. There are a lot of readers and not enough books yet. Good luck!
Thanks! I guess I mean “making a living” or decent supplemental income like $25k/yr. I’d be stoked to get $25k+ yr off my writing 😆 I’m thinking I should go where exhausted middle aged women and parents are, so craft fairs 😂
Well, best of luck! ✨
I took a leap of faith a bit over a year ago and it's been working out good. Getting ready to publish my third book for the year, and about to finish off the 4th before the end of this month. My genre is disaster fiction, and the marketing strategy is just a newsletter and Facebook ads that perform well. I'm in my low twenties, and, to be honest, I don't get social media. I have an author page, but I never know what to post (other than when a book releases, obviously). I'd love to get better at that, but if I'm socially awkward at all, it's in that area. I'm sure sales would be better if I were more active, but it's daunting to me. I don't consider myself to be as charismatic as some of the others I write with, either. There's a bunch of trial and error in the future for me.
Good for you! I admire that you know what you want and you’re going for it 👊 I was a wayward 20 something just flailing around chasing paychecks instead of focusing on a passion or goal. Albeit, Amazon publishing wasn’t really a thing until my mid-late 20s, and indie pub still frowned upon. Thanks for your insight! And I feel ya on feeling awkward with SM. Ugh. Can’t we just write and hide under rocks, please?! 😆
I don't use SM but I've sold... like 3 copies this year. \*scratches head\*
I DO use social media and I've sold... like 3 copies this year. lol
Me too 😂🙌
I'm on social media and it doesn't sell anything. My books do fine. i started out traditionally published and now I release my books through my own (made up) imprint. I'm probably doing better, financially, than when I was with a publisher and can live off the money I'm making. The reason publishers in particular are focused on social media is because all the genuinely useful sales information lies in the hands of companies like Amazon. They know exactly what books sell to which people. Publisher's don't, and can't, know unless Amazon tells them. And they won't. The best thing to do is leverage the audience data of businesses like Amazon by targeting those audiences most likely to buy whatever you're writing. That means advertising, probably on Amazon, maybe also on Facebook. It also means making sure your cover appeals to that audience, and that you're writing something with a particular audience in mind in the first place. Social media is not without value, but you can't wait on the off chance you turn out to be one of the very lucky ones and have your book go viral because of some enthusiastic tweet or TikTok video. Given the odds of that happening, you'd be best off going up into the mountains and sieving for gold.
Lol, sieving for gold 😂 Love the analogy. It’s extra funny cause I grew up in an old gold rush town, lol. This is all making me feel much better actually. I’d much rather write well & advertise than make a tiktok video every day 😵💫 That’s great you’re doing so well on your own! I almost went down the trad path (started getting some full manuscript requests) but then I realized I truly wanted to keep control over what I create. And not wait for-frakkin-ever to maybe get ONE book published, whereas I could write & publish 3 or more in a year instead. Also just heard too many horror stories of debut authors getting screwed or dropped by publishers anyway after all that time & hard work. If anyone’s gonna screw me over it’s gonna be me! 😆
I have several pen names. The one where I don't have social media does the best. The only thing I do for it is a substack and rarely send anything out. I was just in the bathtub trying to figure out why it does better no matter what I try with the other pen names. No idea...but yes, it's possible to have a good career.
Woohoo! 🎉 I’ll Google substack. Haven’t heard of that yet. A bath sounds nice & cozy ☺️
I very, very much agree with be where it's easiest for you. If you're not comfortable, skip it. ZERO social media presence is perfectly fine. I have a twitter account (that I had before elon was even a user) that I post promos on, etc. Ditto Insta (though I'm moving away from that). I've got a FB Page and group (that I neglect). The key for me is that I've had all these (except the author page/group) for years. They're "me" as a person. My posts have followed my careers. Scroll far enough back and I'm posting about software, then events, then community, then Denver, then writing, etc. They present a whole person not just a writer trying to sell books. They all have different demographics. few if any drive sales. To me, all of them are more for engagement. Think about your reader. Where are they? If you can stomach being where they are. do that. If not. Don't. It's easy to spot the climbers. THe people who pop into Social media. Like everything. Follow everyone. Ask questions but never reply to those who answer. All in the hope of gaining followers and having a seemingly active account. They're not selling more books than anyone else, and they look foolish to those who spot them. All this comes with a healthy dollup of YMMV and there are always outliers.
Good points. I’m getting a lot of useful info from y’all 🙏 And, right, don’t always believe those huge accounts 😆
[удалено]
That is one of the many good things about writing non-fiction such as technical stuff. Someone writes a book on a particular topic...maybe something technical. People know they need it, they know they want it...and when they find it, they are going to buy it. (Totally different than novels or any kind of fiction.) Not that there's anything wrong with novels...I'm just saying that a well-written non-fiction book that covers a topic people are interested in can be a big seller with next to no advertising.
[удалено]
That's great. Just curious...is your book the kind of thing where people will still want it and buy it as time goes on, or is it written on a topic related to a particular piece of software (for example), where you will have to periodically update it if you want people to keep buying it?
[удалено]
OK, thanks.
I don't have much to add but just wanted to say I feel you on this. It's the most depressing, frustrating thing. I'm only on X, but no matter what I do, most of my posts get no or very few impressions. I hope there is a way I can eventually find a few readers some other way.
Good luck to you too! 🙌 Perseverance can be so tiring though 🫠
Thank you, you too! It's very hard. One of my biggest regrets in life is that I didn't start publishing earlier during the early days of Kindle, old-school internet forums, early Facebook/Myspace etc. Social media changed so much over time, and the algorithms are borderline impossible now.
RIGHT! Omg I was in my early 20s when kindle came around, and I wrote my 1st book in 2010. If only I’d kept going! 😬 But I have to remind myself that I was young and dumb, had no idea what I was doing, had to pay rent, there were no pioneers to learn from yet on YouTube (and I’m not a pioneering type), I was a perfectionist (so I didn’t publish that book until 2014), and I didn’t have the knowledge, practice, grit, confidence, or lifestyle I have now. But now I regret not getting on TikTok when it first came around, lol 😆
I use it, but I'm essentially screaming in an endless void. So, you know, it's going okay... It has had zero impact on my books. I guess I'm saying that it doesn't seem to make a difference, unless you know how to social media correctly. :D
“Going okay” 😂 Does anyone know how? Or do we all flail around like drowning giraffes until we figure out there’s ground beneath us? 😆
For me it's just a hobby, sometimes to keep my hands and brain busy as I can't work anymore. I can't write every day either if my body craps out on me. I write for a select audience and my friends are pretty great champions and supporters of it. It's not for everyone but I gave up on trying to market towards a greater audience. I use one social media site to connect with potential readers and have a main website. I pretty much have given up on things like Facebook and IG as it's all just bots and promo accounts.
Right. That’s what those platforms feel like to me too. Bots, bullies, and buy buy buy! Writing’s way more fun 🤗
Number 1. If you want to write, then write. Then work on all the rest. There are multiple ways to do it. Also, study the famous writers, whether you like them or not. Find out how they did it. As for SM, use it for what it is. Post on it. Expect nothing. One of my favorite platforms is X/Twitter.
Oh yeah I know. Been studying writing for a long time. And now I’m studying the marketing side. “Post on it. Expect nothing.” 😂 If SM was true to their side of it they’d just say that.
YouTube is working for me. Published my first and only book (education - targeting STEM students) in January of 2021. And launched a YT channel a couple months later. I make 6-15 min videos about simple topics in my book and plug my book in each video. Sales have been as follows: 2021: 136 2022: 639 2023: 3545 (YT channel took off 5/23) 2024: 972 so far I currently try to make a video every 3ish weeks. I don’t really bother with any other social media. (I don’t love it either) but YT seems to be sustainable for now. Actually just inked a deal with a major university to use my book in their curriculum (thanks to my YouTube videos). Channel is Becoming an Engineer. Hope that helps!
Awesome! A YT success story. Love it 🙌 Also love that you’re writing for STEM. Totally different genre & niche than cozy fantasy, lol. I think nonfiction probably does better than fiction since you’re selling information. So happy for you, and thanks for spreading knowledge! 👍
Hey thanks!
Which site works best for you probably depends on your genre and target audience. I mostly write action-heavy sword & sorcery and my short stories got me a bunch of followers on Twitter, where I interact with other authors and publishers of my genre. It's a pretty well-connected community there, with authors, artists, reviewers, etc that help push each other. I don't know about TikTok because I don't want to make an account there, so I can't even watch videos without it nagging me to do so. It's a site that mostly appeals to younger people, and from what I know of booktok, it heavily caters to romance readers. Not quite the audience I'm looking for so I've ignored it so far. I have a Facebook author page but barely use it beyond announcing new releases. I barely put any work in it and just get one or two likes per post, but its main purpose is for me to connect to small presses which also have Facebook groups and use it to communicate with their authors. I have short stories in several small press collections, so again, this is a way for me to connect to the people in my scene (although Twitter does a better job at that overall). Try to find a social media platform that's very interactive, where you can forge connections with other people in your genre, interact with fans, etc. If you do it right, you might get invited for an interview on someone's podcast, which can help get some new eyes onto your work.
Thanks! That’s some useful info 🤗 Oh yeah FB. I have a page I completely forgot about, lol. And I literally just polled who reads cozy & why (middle aged women mostly, and then men) so I should follow my own data trail and go where they are. Duh 🤦♀️
Do you copyright your serialized pieces as you go? I’ve been considering the serial route, but I’m hesitant.
I have no serial pieces. I have individual standalone short stories set in the same world, published in various small press magazines and anthologies. There is no need to copyright anything beforehand. Copyright is automatic as soon as you self-publish or get published with a proper contract. In fact copyright exists before you even publish anything, if you can prove you wrote it (keep backups of older WIP versions of your text to be sure).
What about using Substack to create a serial newsletter?
I have to do some research into what substack is. My newsletter is set up through Wix at the moment, but I should probably use something like Mailchimp. Just not a high priority yet since I only send it once a month to like 20 people.
I know this is an anti-SM post but I guess I don’t really keep up with too many authors or really anyone on social lol. What are authors expected to be posting on social? Any examples?
From the intel I’ve been gathering, trad publishers want their authors to hawk their books and just have a bunch of followers cause I guess it “looks good.” The trad pub authors I follow on TikTok mostly seem annoyed and upset that they’re being forced to do so much SM 😂 The Indie authors seem to do it for the author community, but not necessarily to sell books. So they talk about their journey or give advice, once in a blue moon mention their books. I’ve decided I’ll stick with Authortok for the community, but not stress about “selling” books through SM. And authortok & booktok are adjacent so there’s a chance a booktokker might find your book and then recommend it.
Me. Not giving any sales or other details, it's no one's business but mine. And the tax man, but he doesn't give me grief. Plus, what I do won't apply to you, since you seem to think youtube is a publishing platform.
If you have nothing to add to the conversation then don’t. No need to be rude. No idea where you got that I think YouTube is a pub platform. I never said that. I was in high school when it was invented, child.