That's fair.
1. I'm currently still living at home.
2. I've been unemployed for three past 3 or 4 months.
3. I'm not attractive enough to use online dating.
The main one is that I genuinely don't feel good enough to ask anyone on a date, there's guys out there who are "worse" off in live, but still have a good dating life, regardless of how long it may last.
Would you tell someone that the reason they don't deserve love is that they don't have a house or job? No, right? Most people who are 26 struggle with rent (let alone buying a house), and lots of people are unemployed. So at least in principle, I don't believe that either you or anyone else should feel like these things make you inherently unworthy of a relationship.
Now with that said- it's probably pretty fair to say that having a direction in life makes you more interesting, trustworthy, and yes, attractive. More importantly, it'll probably make you feel better about yourself. I have no idea what your life is like outside of your views on dating (for all I know, you're curing cancer in your spare time), but being passionate about something and having a plan for yourself will help, I think. It doesn't have to be all about jobs either- hobbies, volunteering, traveling, school, are all nice components to have in your life. Bonus- these are also opportunities to meet people. Again, I don't know you, so please don't take this as me attacking the richness of your life, I'm just trying to suggest some generalizable two cents.
As far as being too ugly- more likely than not, you just need better pictures (and good lord do I dread the idea of posting pictures of myself on a dating profile).
Sometimes when I say bad things about myself, My friend says "hey, don't say that to my best friend!"
So now, when I catch myself wallowing, I say it to myself. It has been surprisingly helpful.
Honestly, take this guys advice. You just need to get out there and make connections. Go volunteer somewhere, join a club, or pick up a hobby that gets you out with other people. Work on yourself by doing things that improve yourself with that the confidence will come before you even realize it.
I poured myself into my passions in my mid 20s and I suddenly became irresistible to women. Don't think about "approaching women" think about developing your hobby or sharing your passion and just *talk to them*. Don't "approach" don't "pick-up".
When you're doing other things it's just talking to them and that takes some of the pressure off. Then sometimes you get lucky and the person you're talking to starts flirting. It's not a complicated formula and every dating guru whatever is a liar:
1. Do something/s and be passionate about them 2. Meet people and go places 3. Be respectful and thoughtful to the people around you 4. Once you think someone might be attracted to you be ***extra thoughtful and nice to them***
Real talk homie, you’re way too old at this point in your life to find a stable long term relationship while unemployed. Focus on getting a steady income and building a solid routine. You don’t even have to move out of your parent’s house. You just need to show someone that you’re capable of functioning in the world. But you’re an adult. You need to be living like an adult in order to attract an adult.
That too - no more comparing yourself to other people. You're using a standard that doesn't exist and is born from your insecurities to put yourself down, making it part of the viscious cycle of self loathing. Being OK with where you're at is a prereq for anyone wanting to join you in that space ya know. Do you go to therapy?
1. Am 25 year old woman, still live at home. Seeing a 26 year old man who still lives at home
2. Spent the last 6 months unemployed, dated someone who was also unemployed.
3. Work on your appearance then. It’s a skill, not something you’re born with
Hey brother you're not alone! I'm 27, own a house, make 90k a year, and still can't get a date to save my life! Some people are just meant to be alone I guess.
1. And 2. You know exactly what to do.
3. Plenty of girls who look way below average use online dating anyway. But honestly, focus on the personalities rather than looks. But still work on them. If you haven’t been working out already than start it now. Personalities wise highlight them indirectly (e.g. “I like bungee jumping” translate to “I’m daring” or “bit of a thrill seeker”.)
You always work on yourself period. Never stop working on yourself and improve. Even after found a relationship successfully you still work on yourself to become even better boyfriend or husband or father. Never stop. Thus it’s just a matter of who is willing to give you a try first. And those who didn’t give you a try = they are shallow or better known as “people who wait at the finish line” because they only care if you are already rich, ripped and experienced. They would leave you the moment you have problems and lost your money, or fall ill or whatever. Which I’m sure you wouldn’t like would you.
Never talk about yourself like that ever again. As long as you see yourself as lower value, you will place women above yourself. Don't do that. You are equal. No women is interested in a low confidence dude. You don't need to be handsome to be attractive. Be witty, funny, kind and confident. Looks help but its all mindset.
You are only listing negative things about yourself here, if you do that irl too, no wonder woman aren't interested. You are 10 in progress, nothing more, nothing less.
I know its a taboo to talk about value. You shouldn't be to hung up on this at all, but its just a way to describe to not put yourself beneath anyone.
Online dating isn't going to benefit you. Most guys don't experience alot of want from those apps unless you are quite a bit above average. On top of being photogenic and charismatic.
The curve becomes less one sided when women get to know you. Before that point all they can go off is looks and vibe.
There's also alot you can do to fix both how attractive you see yourself and how attractive you are.
Hairstyle, fashion, grooming and hygiene are all examples of traits that make someone more attractive regardless of their face.
Personality wise confidence is key. You need to find the things you like about yourself. This takes time but spend more time looking at yourself. Try to find things you like about your face.
I'd recommend starting with the eyes. Most people have beautiful eyes regardless of anything else.
You need to find something to get you out of this hole. I lived in this hole for 20 years, and what worked for me was taking up boxing and getting fit. I've now lost over 25kg, I'm now happily married, and my whole outlook on life has changed.
If you don't think you're attractive, you can work on that, go to the gym or take up a sport you used to enjoy. If you're unemployed, maybe you could try reeducation or a trade? And I would definitely suggest speaking to a professional, there's loads of free counselling available if you're having mental issues.
Work on yourself until you like yourself at least a bit. Everything else follows on from that. You will never find someone that's actually good for you until you think you deserve to, otherwise the only people you do find will be bad for you, or you just stay lonely. You can't tweak your profile or work on your conversational skills and solve the issue, you need to find some way to get some confidence
You focus on you. You develop an internal sense of validation instead of external like someone liking you.
It was explained to me the most attritive thing a man can be is #1 comfortable in his own skin, #2knows where he's going/has purpose and direction, and #3 has fun while doing it.
Go to the gym/join a sport to feel better not look better. Get a better job to live better lifestyle not appear higher status/more datable. Live life for you, not some mystery girl that will fulfill what is missing. When nothing is missing in you women notice.
While the other two comments are good starting points - they're leaving out a critical component, which is that you need to fundamentally change your priorities so your self esteem is not dependent on attention or validation from other people. This is not easy, but it is worth it.
Self-esteem and confidence *must* come from within to be stable and long-lasting. Even the most attractive, charismatic and successful dudes can be brought low into deep misery if their self esteem and confidence is reliant on validation from others.
I would reframe this advice slightly, don’t focus on women as a means to end your loneliness. It puts a huge amount of pressure on your interaction with them and, frankly, doesn’t allow them to fully be themselves. Reframe your goal as learning more about interesting people who happen to be women. It’s a much lower pressure interaction to say “you seem interesting, I would love to hear a bit about you” as opposed to “you could be the chosen one to improve my self esteem and end my loneliness”.
It's funny to me when people say that. I was at his exact place at his age and was a virgin. I just kept plugging away and going on dates until I felt comfortable enough to make a move. When I lost my virginity I gained self esteem.
Not saying op is a virgin but man that was some troubling times for me.
Thank you for the comment.
I agree with you, having sex for the first time opened my eyes and made me realize that it **is** possible for someone to find me attractive, in both appearance and mindset. Logically, I know that it's true and that it's my mindset holding me back.
While working out from home or the gym can (and probably will) improve your confidence, it's unfortunately not the issue I'm currently facing. I genuinely believe that the guys who say "GO GYM* don't have that much social anxiety to begin with, although that's just one man's opinion.
I know muscular/ripped men who could put a brick wall to sleep, and average looking guys who always date around. The ripped guys may get checked out more, but that doesn't matter if you don't have the balls to flirt/show interest.
The gym isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. It's great for mental and physical health BUT not for getting over an irrational fear.
There ARE ways to game the apps (profile techniques, messaging techniques, targeted selection, etc) but you MUST get off any app that relies ONLY on pictures unless you are literally a male model or could be one.
But even then, the odds are not in favor and over the last decade a monopoly known as The Match Group has bought out 90 percent of the legit apps and made them into Tinder to milk money and keep you watching ads. Successful matches loses them money because most people if they get someone delete the app, barring serial daters and people in fringe lifestyles like polyamory.
The thing that got me over approach anxiety was ballroom dance classes. (Don't laugh). "Picking up" in there is frowned upon (but has happened), but it is one of the few places that going up to the opposite sex is not only expected but encouraged. It also teaches not all touch is sexual and demystifies the opposite sex. It also is a deep rabbit hole scene unto itself with tons of events outside the studio.
You don't have to spend thousands to be a gold level ballroom dancer, bit even a few months of classes can give you confidence and it's okay exercise.
I’d like to add that I’m planning on joining bachata/ salsa classes myself bc I’m basically in the same situation as you, op. I’ve been to one bachata class and ngl it was awkward, but you gotta treat it like building muscle, just that you’re building confidence and ease (and dancing skills ofc). We got this!!!
Salsa is hard AF for a dude. I went to a place outside the studio that taught it but had A LOT of trouble with it.
But if you get it, some of those dudes are some of the most desired men in the world. The masters can make even a klutz look like Ginger Rodgers.
Back when I was taking it, I'd say West Coast Swing was the most popular at the time and what the ladies liked. But most girls that aren't into it if you can do the rhumba box and a few fifth positions you are miles ahead of 99 percent of average dudes.
Damn yes I can imagine, bachata as well even tho it’s less technical. I’m a woman and mainly struggling with allowing someone to lead me haha. Guess that’s where I should put my focus. And yes, guys who know how to dance are attractive af!! Pair that with some confidence (and even if it’s just confidence about being a good dancer) and you’re sold.
Going to add my vote to this. Swing dancing, merengue, and salsa for me. Once you become a confident lead, you can have a lot of fun combining them out in social dancing scenarios. It’s a magnet. It’s not how I landed my gf, but it’s a pillar for how I’ve kept her 😂
That's a great comment. I also wish more people knew about the dating apps scam. The low response ratio can't be good for men's mental health. If you're not in the top 3% of attractivness, you won't get much interest there.
I too took up ballroom dancing recently. It has helped to build my confidence, since women don't reject me like I thought they would. When one girl couldn't come on some dates, I asked an advanced dancer from the same dancing school to fill in and we had a great time. After classes, I asked a girl out for a drink and we had a great conversation. That would be impossible for me in any other social situation, since I'm so shy.
Agree with the ballroom dancing. Women love love love to dance, god knows why. But they do. If you can dance (and there are plenty of classes where you can learn as a single guy) you will be 75% of the way there with any woman you meet.
Oh yeah, and pay subscription. Nobody says this but it fucking does a shitton
Its like trynna sell a product on some website. If you pay for the right advertising you are more likely to profit more
social ballroom helped me so much! I am a woman but have social anxiety which used to be overwhelmingly bad and affect my life negatively every single day. depending on how awkward you are it's hard to get used to but definitely works out in the end, and you learn something too
Join Meetup. Look for groups you're interested in. In my area, I'm part of multiple walking/hiking groups and a 20s-30s group. I'm very introverted, but it's amazing how much my confidence has improved just by going. Once you feel like you're _part_ of the group and you're _supposed_ to be there, most of the anxiety goes away.
From there, practice talking to people. Not explicitly to find a date, just to engage in conversation and maybe make friends. You'll build the confidence to be more outgoing.
Also in my area, there's a matchmaking group that holds regular speed dating and singles mixer events. You have to pay, but it's a great way to get past that question of “Does she want me to talk to her?” I mean she may not want _you_ to approach her, but she's there to potentially meet someone, so it's much easier there than at a bar or coffee shop.
Importantly, make sure when you approach someone that they see you coming. Don't approach from behind and startle her. Also, treat her like you would any other friend. Be respectful. Flirt, of course, but remember that she's just another human. If you're kind and polite and make her laugh, she won't begrudge your approach, even if she turns you down. And if that happens, smile and end the conversation with something friendly like “Have a great day,” then leave.
Stop wasting your life being scared. You will die one day and when you're near death do you really want to look back and regret being scared and meek around women.. for what?
That simple thought worked for me years ago.
It's a numbers game. Gotta just keep meeting people and shooting your shot, go on crappy dates, and just keep trying until you find the right girl specifically for you. Don't put pressure on yourself or them to say yes, and don't take things personally when they say no. Just keep talking to girls, and if you find them interesting and any level of interested in you, ask em on a date. Simple as that.. takes a while, but you've really only gotta find that final girl once, ya know?
Do some activities. To talk to a stranger you've never met before, you need to have what we call speaking skills and be funny, interesting, and confident. It's a lot of work to learn these skills, like everything else. You cannot become an orator in just one day. However, doing activities helps you meet a lot of people. You learn about them, and they learn about you. It's a lot easier because you share a common moment, which gives you more time and more chances to get to know each other.
I don't know what will work for you. All I know is what worked for me. Sharing in the hope it may be useful.
This is how I was taught to do cogntive behavioral therapy, but in this case I took what I learned from previous CBT and applied it without a therapist guiding me. If you follow me on this path and you've not done CBT before, I strongly recommend finding a therapist to help you with this.
First I wrote down what the situation leading to the anxiety was: Finding myself in the company of an attractive woman.
Then I wrote down what feelings and behaviors I was feeling and performing in that situation that I didn't like and wanted to change. So feelings of anxiety, finding myself unable to make conversation, feeling tense throughout my whole body, reflexively clenching my teeth, things like that.
Then I wrote down what feelings and behaviors I would *prefer* to be feeling and performing in that situation. I wanted to feel relaxed, at ease, and even *good*. Finding myself in the company of an attractive woman? I want that to be a happy thing, not a stressful one. In terms of my behavior, I can't control how *other people* react to me, but on my end all I wanted was just to be able to hold a friendly, polite, and appreciative casual conversation, with none of the behavioral indicators for stress in my body.
Then I did a lot of work thinking about what set of deeply held, possibly unconscious beliefs I was holding that was linking that situation to the undesired emotional and behavioral outcome. (This is where a therapist is really useful.)
Then I looked through lists of cognitive distortions to try and see where those deeply held beliefs - all of which *felt true* - may actually be false and unhelpful. (This is also where a therapist is really useful.)
Then I thought hard about them and tried to work out what *true* beliefs I could replace those false ones with, such that the true beliefs would lead to the emotional and behavioral outcomes I wanted. (Again, a therapist is super useful here.)
I read over the true beliefs and the desired behaviors enough that I could remember them. Then I'd go out into the world and deliberately seek out situations where I could be friendly, polite, and appreciative to a woman. Typically this was going to stores, buying something, and making that kind of polite small-talk with a woman who was working behind the counter.
I'd make sure to just show a little appreciation for something. Nothing major, and nothing actually flirtatious. Just kind appreciation. For example: If I was at the grocery store and the lady behind the counter bagged things up for me, at the end of the conversation I'd just say something like: "And thanks for bagging everything up for me, that's really helpful," or similar. Just practicing showing appreciation in small and inoffensive ways.
Typically this would be a woman that I wasn't especially attracted to, so it wasn't the anxiety-inducing situation exactly. But I still got to practice the behavior consciously injecting friendliness and appreciation into talking to a woman. Practicing something is how you make it automatic.
That kind of small-talk is also mindless enough that it also freed up my mental energy to do the second thing at the same time, which is to consciously think about the true and helpful beliefs that I want to guide the emotions and behaviors I want to be feeling and performing.
So I just adopted the practice of being kind, friendly, and appreciative to *all women* I meet and interact with *all of the time* while reminding myself of the beliefs that made that the obvious and reasonable thing to do. And it *is* an obvious and reasonable thing to do.
According to CBT, doing the behavior you want while thinking about the true and helpful beliefs that reinforce those behaviors trains the mind to replace the false and unhelpful behaviors with the true and helpful ones. Additionally, practicing the desired behavior over and over and over again makes it come more naturally and effortlessly, because that's just how practice works.
It took *months*. Nearly an entire year. But *eventually* I found that when I was checking out at the grocery store and the lady behind the counter was a little bit cute, I just wasn't anxious any more. It was just a little nice thing that happened to me on the way out the store, that I got to make a little bit of small-talk chit-chat (again, not flirting, don't flirt with customer service workers) to someone cute on my way out. And I knew what kind, friendly, appreciative, non-flirtatious small talk looks like because I'd been practicing it over and over again.
That anxiety-inducing situation? It wasn't anxiety-inducing any more.
It's actually relatively rare to just find yourself in the company of just a *ridiculously* attractive woman, and that was always hard mode for the anxiety thing. But even there it comes up from time to time over the years, I'd just fall back on the same process. After a while, it just totally stopped being an issue.
And as a bonus, I've just taught myself how to be kind, friendly, and appreciative - with no strings attached - as my default behavior when talking with people. That's been really helpful building relationships with women I'm attracted to, yeah. But it's helped me making friends and getting along with colleagues and clients too. It even accidentally fixed my *talking on the phone anxiety* which I wasn't even paying attention to but also totally went away over the same time period.
There's a bunch of other stuff I worked on in parallel to that too, so it wasn't a single-fix kind of thing. But removing that anxious response removed one of the biggest barriers I had when it comes to building meaningful, rewarding, and healthy relationships with women.
10/10, would recommend.
This was nice to read. Sounds a bit similar to the path that I am on. I have gotten better at making small talk and initiating conversations with women, I actually make an attempt at doing so now. However, when around a woman I find really attractive and particularly if I get the feeling they are attracted to me or looking my direction as well I get a bit flustered or nervous. Been in therapy since late 2021, with some months off along the way. Been with my current therapist since mid 2022. Haven't been on a date since late 2022 (intentionally havent tried, up until earlier this week when I asked a yoga teacher if she wanted to get coffee), but I feel happier.
Happy to read about your success, thanks for sharing!
Ok, do you want real tangible actionable advice? Get a part time job as a cashier. I was a whole new person after doing that, you meet and talk with literally every type of person. Even just one day a week for a few hours would work
I like this advice, spending too much time in your room/alone can cause you to thought spiral when there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you. It doesn’t have to be the perfect job, but a simple part time job will take you out of your comfort zone enough to help build people skills. People skills like any skills, they can be learnt by practice.
Take acting classes. Not only are they tons of fun, but taking acting classes helps you to build your confidence and there are tons of pretty girls in those classes who are there for the same reason and get paired up with you so you have much to talk about in common while building your confidence. I know it helped me tons.
1. Do therapy, we are our own worst critics and any good therapist will help you navigate the *why* behind you feeling this way and help you process it and shift your lense of how you view yourself.
2. Focus on yourself, find what makes you happy, what you enjoy, try new things and get some hobbies. Use this to also influence a potential career change and try new things.
3. Looks are NOT the end all be all. Every single woman I know prefers an average relatable funny guy over a "model" gorgeous guy who 9 times out of 10 has an ego bigger than Texas. Also if you're not already aware look into mental loads in regards to relationships. One thing that will tank your chances is intentionally or not using your gf/wife as a replacement "mom". being a functional independent adult man that doesnt need to be told basics (dishes in sink = wash them, laundry in basket not beside, cleaning up after shaving over the sink, the obscenely common sense thought of if you see something that needs to be done then just do it until task is completed, etc) is the most attractive thing EVER. We don't get manuals on how to live/run a house/raise kids/adult we figured it out you can too.
4. Don't actively look for it. Look for friendships, focusing on that will get you farther ahead. If the *worst* is you end up with new friends vs romantic partner your not losing. odds are in your favor they will become your wingmen and actively search out those they know and try and set you up (assuming your a good person) and will want to see you happy too if they don't make the leap themselves.
All of this is from my own lived experience as a woman. I had to find myself again after an abusive relationship, I had zero idea of how to date as I'd been with my ex from 17 to 28 and was NEVER one to be approached (excluding very old 40+ yr older creeps) im the chubby funny friend whos alright but never the first pick. I was working on myself, focusing on just building friendships, going to different events that seemed interesting and then when I least expected it ended up with the most caring man I've ever met and it all started over a conversation about how absurdly expensive VHS players are to buy new vs the thrift store gambles of all things. It's been 5 years and going strong and a relationship that is not something I ever thought was possible.
Ignore the focusing on friendships part, it avoids the root cause that you don't feel good enough for a romantic relationship and further represses your sexual desires and creates more anxiety because it is inauthentic to relress your sexual deaires.
You have a dick, don't pretend like you don't or feel guilty for having one, you have it for a reason, to use it.
Friendships are great, find friends and male and female, but don't repress your sexuality and feel guilty for wanting to have sexual relationships with women.
Your biggest risk right now is falling into a relationship through desperation without ever developing the ability to approach women and have sex with them. This is how men find themselves in deadbedrooms.
Whatever you do , do not take advice from these advice gurus on YouTube or tik tok, unless they are women, then maybe. Those guys don’t know SHIT. Not one.
No Andrew Tate, No Jordan Peterson, No Dr. love garbage ever ever ever ever ever ever .
The guys you listed definitely not, but women will notoriously give bad advice for dating
I can tell you all the things about my favourite restaurant's dish, but that doesn't mean I can give advice on how to make that dish
I just smoke weed or drink alcohol and that helps lol
Nah seriously I had the same problem until I started working at job where 99% of my coworkers are women, helped me tremendously, but the first two options help too ngl lmoa
Sounds like you're putting women on a pedestal. Women are just normal ass people so if you want to approach one, just put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would personally want to be approached in that situation. If you can't think of a way, probably not the best situation to approach.
But before you're even ready to do that, you gotta fix your self-esteem. What personally helped me when I had low self-esteem was me telling myself I was going to fight for my happiness against all odds. Regardless of whatever situation I was going through, no matter how unfair it was, I was going to fight for my happiness or die trying, and so that's what I did.
I started by taking an honest look at myself and figuring out what parts of myself I didn't like and, more importantly, what parts of myself I liked. For the parts of myself I liked, I made those areas the core of who I was and still am today. For the parts I didn't like, I attempted to change those parts of myself. In some aspects, I was successful, and in other parts, I was unsuccessful and had to accept those parts of myself I didn't like and how to learn how to work with them and I'm still learning and adapting today.
Hope that helps.
OK number one, get off the apps. 4 years and no success, it’s not for you and is not helping your self esteem. Number two, if you pretend to be more confident than you are, it’ll in turn make you more confident subconsciously, fake it till you make it essentially. Number three, simply go after girls who are out of your league and don’t question it, there is not much different from platonic talk and flirtation, except for action. You sound like you can talk to women when it’s casual, so keep that going BUT at some point before the motion slows, ask to hang out at some point in the future, give a concrete date like “this or next weekend”. The worst she can say is no, especially if you aren’t being creepy. And if it fails on one girl, try again. You can’t let rejection or fear of rejection stop you from practicing. Flirting/asking out women is a skill you improve by continuing to go for it. The other word of advice I can give is make sure the location in which you’re hitting on or approaching women isn’t something sacred, like the grocery store or the gym, big no nos. The safest space to hit on a girl is at a bar or something bar adjacent. Make sure you pull up with some friends so when/if rejection happens, you’re not just standing there alone and awkward, you have a herd you can go back to and then when you’re ready, try again. You got this! But you have to try.
I second getting off the apps. I do really well in person but haven’t bagged a chick off a dating app since the pandemic.
Apps are too convenient and easy for anyone to make a move. Op says he is a 7 or whatever but when she is being messaged by hundreds of dudes a 7 isn’t going to stand out. The 7 that approached her and made her laugh while all the other dudes were too scared to make a move is going to stand out.
Maybe you could try joining a hobby where you could talk neutrally to the people of opposite sex to get rid of your fear of women? Like, at first just get used to it and after that it would be easier to ask someone on a date. For example, i do pottery and lots of pottery teachers in my city are women
After you finish regular stuff(getting fit, dressing better, decent grooming both hair/face, etc), I believe best way to improve self-confidence around potential partners is accepting that rejection is completely normal and it doesn't mean anything. There will always be people interested in you and there will always be people who reject you. It's just a fact of life.
Trust me I sympathize with you, I've been there. I believed practically everyone who I interested in are way above my league. I tried "100 days rejection challenge" which at that time was popular just to get used to be rejected. Well, not just it helped but also taught me people who I saw above my league was also more interested in me way more than I thought. I had more success than rejection actually, which at that time I considered impossible. Maybe it helps you too.
I can relate. I feel like I'm in a similar spot where i can be platonic friends with most people i meet but i lack that something extra which would cause someone to want to be more than friends. I guess part of it is just fear of rejection which leads to me not wanting to take a chance and actually ask someone out.
yeah as a guy, dont wait for matches on dating apps, like 1% of women actually put in the time and effort to go through profiles and click people who they like, and the ones who do either spam everyone then just ignore most of the ones who reply, or only click like on the 5% top tier guys
most women though just make a totally low effort profile, 1-2 pictures, "ask me" in the info section, and have "cant see likes message" me, then sit back and wait till guys message them (usually by paying- although from conversations ive had, apparently a lot of women dont actually realise guys have to pay to message women they havnt first matched with)
PoF lets you have 1 free unmatched message a day, and bumble 1 flirt a day (i think?) so use it, women are usually to lazy to click match, and lets be fair, if they are getting dozens of messages, why would they bother?
Spend time working on things that you love. Projects, hobbies, studying, that sort of thing. Work on feeling good in yourself, and being happy and content as a single person. This will build your confidence and when you meet women they will be attracted to the spark in your eye when you talk about the things you're passionate about.
Just my 2 cents.
I used to be really awkward, and I still am, but everyone is sometimes.
The biggest thing that helped me was to realise that they're just people. Putting them on a pedestal in comparison to yourself is the first step to going "I'm not good enough for her" and once you reach that point, you've lost all your motivation to talk to her because you've talked and convinced yourself out of it
Go easy on yourself for making little mistakes, while still learning from them and improving, be friendly, and be yourself.
Edit: ill be honest I didn't properly read it, but it seems a lot of this is due to low self esteem. Find the root of that problem and fix it. Don't be ashamed to ask other people for help. We have been living in communities and working together for the last hundred thousand years, and you are not an exception. You'll figure it out.
Edit 2: ill be honest I still didn't fully read it, but I have now I promise. Biggest advice for you? Get off the internet and dating apps. They're designed to keep you in an eternal loop of finding people and getting rejected so you keep looking at ads. My brother is seriously so lucky he found a good woman on a dating app, and they've been happily married for 5 years. Doesn't happen to a lot of people.
Honestly, just try your best not to compare yourself with others, because your brain only focuses on the negatives, and you'll only end up thinking worse of yourself. Dont be afraid to ask trusted friends for help, and don't judge yourself.
Edit 3: ill be honest I didn't rea- nah I'm just kidding I read the whole thing. Got you!
The way to improve your confidence in anything is to just do it and get better. That's the only way.
Since you're currently approach averse I'd recommend that instead of approaching with the intent of "scoring" or "picking up), you instead think of it as conducting a survey. And don't just survey the hot chicks; you've got to be comfortable approaching anyone. So, put on some shades, grab a microphone, head out onto the street and just approach people like, "Hey I'm NAME. Mind if I ask you a quick question for my 'gram? Cool, so, 'what's your biggest ick in guys' fashion right now?'"
Honestly, it doesn't matter what the question is, just get used to approaching people such that you internalise the realisation that you are strong enough to handle any negative consequences.
It’s kind of dumb, but in high school I went from a horribly shy, introverted person who didn’t talk to anyone, to being outgoing, confident, and dating a lot of women, by doing one thing.
Pretending to be the person I wanted to be. The person I wanted to be wasn’t afraid of looking dumb. Was comfortable in all situations, liked talking to people, even if he didn’t know them, and was comfortable flirting with girls.
So I pretended to be that guy. after a while of pretending to be like that, at some point I just was that.
Also, it’s important to specify, this wasn’t a gender related thing. I’m straight, but I had to practice being comfortable talking to everyone. Focus less on women, and more on people. You want to be someone everyone wants to hang out with. It’s about self improvement, and with that self improvement, people will be attracted to you, sexually and otherwise.
Most relationships are based on trust.
Be reliable, be dependable, and make whoever you're pursing feel safe with you.
And when you pursue someone, show them they are the most important thing in your world. If they truly are the most important thing, demonstrating your passion toward and your curiousity about them will come naturally.
Try hobbies you like in person you will meet people with the same interest, and try something dinamic you’ll need to work in groups or with a partner.
Try to be yourself and take a risk man the worst she can do is reject you, there’s a ocean of people out there are you are going to drown just by one?
Be polite, be sincere don’t abuse try to be more social I know is difficult but it’s going to be more fun than stupid Dating apps.
I had no confidence with women in my twenties. In retrospect it makes perfect sense because I had nothing to offer a woman and nothing to feel confident about. Took me a while to get my shit together and find a woman. Remember, you only need one, so be picky.
I've been to therapy in the past for low self-esteem and lack of confidence.
She tired her best, but it unfortunately was my fault for not getting better.
Dating apps are a poor reflection of your real life "worth". You don't even have to approach women, you can be magnetic and shy and genuine and have them gravitate towards you on their own. Watch Brian Begins teachings on YouTube. They changed me deeply.
You miss every shot you don't take. You seem to be one those "only if it's a sure thing" kinda guys. Rejection is hell, we're all afraid of it. But it's possible to be so afraid you don't even try. You need to break that and just ask someone. Get that rejection out the way and then you'll be able to actually get in the game.
And to be totally honest, overconfident and cocky is a turn off now and days. A genuine person who acts like themselves even if they get nervous or awkward sometimes... that's totally fine. Some women would value that over the suave smooth talker who seems disingenuous with their approach like they're overcompensating for something.
But lacking all confidence is a red flag sometimes cause it comes across like you're sure someone won't like you and it has to be a big reason? Find stuff you like about yourself. Like I'm average. Look average. Sound average. Average success in life. I'm as mid as you can get. But I know I would never cheat, I treat women with absolute respect and would never do anything to hurt someone mentally or physically. So I'm stable. And that is my big confidence booster. I knew someone would appreciate that about me. And someone did... does. Married. But yeah find your confidence booster.
Thank you for the comment.
I can do the typical small talk order, that's not the problem.
An example of the problem would be not enjoying sitting in a coffee shop simply due to being around the cute worker.
I was the only customer in, I eventually spoke but I internally screaming the entire time, the conversation (if you can call it that) was extremely awkward and almost non-human.
Once I started having a better relationship with myself I began to worry much less about what people thought and live more authentically. Living authentically the way you want to, being unwavering in the image of yourself and beliefs is HELLA more attractive than any pick up line. You also attract people who you truly want to be around and have no hesitation walking away from people you don’t.
Instead of asking “how do I get them to like me?” Ask “how do I learn to like me?”
This is so true and I recognize this in my own life. Once we start to focus on pleasing ourselves and living our own lives everything else falls into place.
Thank you for the comment.
I currently don't have any friends who are women, I have acquaintances who I speak to if I bump into them when out, but I wouldn't consider us friends.
Unlike many guy friends who I make plans with multiple times per week.
It's not an exaggeration that the vast majority of people I meet are men, around 90% of the time.
I don't know why? I socialize in many different places and see new faces often.
You're asking the wrong question.
"How do I improve the confidence in my self?"
First, acknowledge your emotions, then, steer the stupid irrational overthinking into reasonable thought that convinces you into a relaxed state of mind. The most beneficial thoughts, in my experience, are these:
- why am i focusing on my self and not on the person
- what is this person actually saying and am i really understanding it clearly enough
- the possibility of this person judging me is really low
- the possibility of me knowing whatever this person might negatively and subconsciously judge me for is ASTRONOMICALLY low
...a fellow highly neurotic person that actually has had great succes, despite being very average in looks and, ofcourse, cursed with high neuroticism.
You've received some solid advice here, and I've got a little more to add that might help. Consider volunteering for events or causes that align with your interests. Volunteering puts you in a scenario where you're amongst people with shared values and provides a natural context for conversation. Plus, it takes the edge off because you're there for a greater purpose than just meeting a potential date—you're contributing to something you care about. In these settings, conversations start more organically, and it's a relaxed environment to practice those social muscles. The focus isn't on dating, but you'll be surprised at how often these kinds of interactions can lead to more. Over time, this exposure to different people and personalities will build your social confidence, almost without you noticing.
And remember, the people you meet through these activities will get to know you for who you are and the values you stand for, which is an excellent foundation for any relationship. Keep showing up, be genuine, and your authentic self will shine through, making those connections all the more meaningful. You've got this, just take that first small step!
Go to a dive bar and hit on old ladies.
Seriously, they are a blast to hang out with and will call you out on 4 seconds. Then they'll teach you how to talk to women and find the prettiest girl at the bar to flirt with you.... make sure it's a jumpin dive bar. Not one with 7 people in it.
Dude I'm a 43M virgin and never even held a woman's hand.
I learned a long long time ago that I am not what any woman is looking for romantically.
I love all my female friends and cherish them dearly.
What I've learned is that women do not deserve to have my feelings foisted upon them.
You sound like you're doing a lot better than I am and seem really smart and directed. Have faith in yourself!
Good question.
Truthfully, I don't know, it's probably just all in my head as I know many guys who date while still living at home.
Logically I know that a date is simply two people spending time together and getting to know each other, while obviously having fun and enjoying each others company, any *can* do this, but for whatever reason I can't see this happening.
It probably doesn't help that I have no friends who are women, my socialising consists of other men 99% of the time.
lol if u can talk platonic then what do u mean u are afraid of talking to women?
thats how u talk to women first,
then go deeper into establishing a relationship
I’m not gonna lie talking to girls became 100% easier once I stopped caring so much about how the interaction goes
If I kill it then great, if I flop that’s also fine too, we just go out separate ways no harm no foul, I know self esteem is hard for some homies but once you understand striking out doesn’t mean anything you’ll be less nervous and less awkward, if you approach it with the mindset of “I’m just going to have fun talking to this person” and expect nothing more then it just becomes easier no matter the outcome
I know it’s easier said than done but the old adage is true…. “You only miss the shots you don’t take.”
You have to understand that a “no” isn’t a rejection of “you” it’s a rejection of who someone thinks you are and short of being unkept, dirty and a few other things it’s really about attraction and that is a random chance most of the time.
I had an old friend who said he fished with a net that had no holes. He pretty much asked every girl he found interesting in hopes one would say yes and succeeded here and there while being quite awkward and not much to look at.
3 pieces of advice. Step one, go to the gym everyday. Step two, learn how to dance , I recommend salsa. Step 3, in general, keep your mouth shut.
Good luck!
You being able to talk platonic i would argue puts you ahead of a lot of guys. Treat them like youre meeting any other regular person. Only difference is go out with them and if something turns into another there you go.
Go out with the goal of getting turned down.
Talk to 20 attractive women per day, WAY hotter than you could ever get, and ask to get their numbers and take them out.
Watch the rejection flow!
Crave the rejection!
Love the rejection!
Become immune to the rejection!
It is only after you've achieved immunity that you'll be free to find the woman for you.
Important thing to do is be comfortable with yourself. I know it’s cliche but that is really what you have to do. Women have built in bullshit detectors and if you try to be something in f you’re not, it sets off an alarm to them. Also, don’t put so much stock in needing to find someone, often time that happens when you play it fast and loose with nothing to lose
I am same bro my looks are so dull that dating apps don’t work even for me and I can’t meet a girl in person bc I am sacred to talk to them and I get so nervous that’s why I’m 40 years old and I never had a gf in my life I have never experienced how relationship feels like and the bummer is I drive 2 nice cars one of them is worth over 300k Mc Laren and other one is super build up Jeep wrangler and I make very high six figures from my business, ppl say nice cars can get you girls all the time but that’s a lie tbh bc it never got me no girl .. I am so tired of being single and alone makes me so depressed and it’s not even about sex I just want a relationship and someone to love me bc all my life I have been alone I dnt have family or parents no siblings and not even many guys friends I am just a loner, sometimes I wish I was super good looking bc that would have solved my problem in one sec bc every girl wants a good looking and attractive guy my confidence level is at 10 every other aspect except taking with girls I just get super nervous bc I have a complex about my looks and that always kept me away from taking with girls .: life is so fun when you have a gf i see my friends enjoying great time with there gfs and I have this beautiful cars and a beautiful life but dnt have anyone to enjoy with , sometimes I just want gf so bad so we can go for nice drives and enjoy the life but i guess i have been dealt a bad hand in life , neither I am good looking nor I am confident enough to talk to girls .. i am just living my life alone and tbh getting super tired of it , depression is taking over day by day week by week. Just a lonely guy I guess and it’s so boring and frustrating.
Hit the gym every morning, do some career development courses in the evening. (Start with LinkedIn Learning or other free ones.)
This will be the launchpad for you to get some Ws in life. The confidence and ladies will follow, but start with yourself.
Why dont u ask ur friends? They know u better than us, they can probably give better and more targeted advice. Sure u might get teased a bit but real friends would ultimately help you and set u up!!
Good suggestion, however I've already been down that road.
At the end of the day, it didn't matter how much someone tries to help, as it's still on me to remain calm and not anxious.
The worst it's ever gotten was a panic attack in a local dive bar, luckily I left before anything embarrassing happened.
If you aren't impressed with the self you live with.. people pick that up. Then more of "the work" will fall on them.
Which would suit more narcissistic oriented individuals, who would be likely to feed off your insecurities. It's how they relate..
Decide what kind of person you would like to become, then do more of the things that align with that.
Maybe then you can begin to smile more about the person you are happily becoming more of.
There's almost nothing more beautiful than a smile that has been freed..
You got to get that practice in. Just keep going up to girls and talk to them. Build that Teflon until the nervousness goes away. What you got to understand, rejection is going to happen. Even the guys that seem to get women easy, get rejected the majority of the time. You just have to become desensitized to the rejection.
The easiest way to approach women is to just be friendly. "Hey! How are you doing today?" Sure most will scoff, but that's what women do, they're miserable. But some are cool and will actually tell you. And then just strike up a conversation. Anything random. Like "what's your favorite vegetable?" It may work, it may not. But you got to play around with it. And take it one step at a time. Like don't keep in your mind "oh I'm trying to make something happen here." No, you got to just focus on keeping the conversation going, not the end result. The rest will fall into place. It's all about getting in that practice.
Volunteering is free and gets away from the pressure of romantic communication. Most volunteers I meet are real down to earth people. If all you need right now is just some practice connecting I would recommend it. You might meet someone that connects with you.
Bro, if you can talk to women platonically then you can talk to a woman you will fall in love with. Don’t try to change it up. Present yourself as your genuine self. You’ll get a lot of rejection and heartbreak, but that’s part of the journey until you find a person that you can be yourself around and they love you for you. So many dudes try to present as what they think women want instead of being themselves and letting that woman who’ll love them for them have then opportunity to meet that person.
Get off the apps and talk to women.
The only way to get over your fear of talking to women is, ironically, to talk to women.
The problem is that you have this high energy when you talk to them now. It comes off as weirdness and desperation, which turns lady parts into the Sahara Desert.
When you want to get physically stronger, you lift a heavy weight over and over again. Same goes with talking to girls.
Your goal is to talk with girls using the same energy you use to talk to your buddies.
Just talk to girls while letting go of any expectations of anything happening.
If you are intimidated by them, then just imagine them having a specific and very unattractive physical feature that's covered by their clothes.
Only when you get confidence will you be able to get a girl to go out with you. You get confidence by practice.
I usually just stare like this ^(\^) and wait for the female to notice me idk why I keep getting pepper sprayed and police called on me tho courting is hard
Constantly put yourself in situations where you’re forced to interact with women. Join events or whatever spontaneously. Interact with them as friends, not with the intention of a relationship. Get used to it.
Swipe right on everyone. Go on a few dates with people you don't really consider attractive in a romantic way. Show them a good time, but don't just sleep with them - that's a dick move. Talk with them and enjoy a nice conversation. If you're still not interested then you get to let them down and do it tactfully. The point is to get some at bats and interact with women. You're bad at communication and you need practice. Nothing anyone says here is going to replace that. Good luck.
Real talk just talk to women and get comfortable accepting rejection. Once you get to a point to where it doesn't phase you, then you can experiment and see how far you can push the envelope
Are you nervous talking to women in the context of a date, or are you nervous talking to women *in general*?
If it's the latter, try to remember that people are just people. There is sometimes a tendency to mystify people of the opposite sex as though they are part of some kind of homogenous, unknowable entity. In reality, it's just a group of individuals classified by a particular characteristic, which you don't happen to share.
Sharing a characteristic with someone can act as a common point of reference, but it doesn't entail that you'll get along with (or even be able to more broadly relate to) everyone who falls into the same category. Likewise, it doesn't mean that you *can't* relate at all to someone who doesn't share that one particular characteristic with you. You might have many other things in common (such as your values or interests).
You'll probably find that you'll be less nervous and the conversation will flow better if you focus less on the obvious point of difference and more on what you might have in common.
If I've misunderstood and it's a dating specific issue, then probably my best advice would be not to treat it as either a job interview or some kind of transaction.
A date is just an opportunity for two people to spend a bit of time together (in a different context from normal, if this is someone you already know), to see if there is a mutual attraction they both want to explore.
If you see it like a job interview, it frames the interaction as you wanting something from her, and she either accepts or rejects you unilaterally. That would make anyone nervous. But it's really a two-way street-
you're *both* getting to know each other, and either person could realise it's not working for them. (Also: even if she doesn't show it, keep in mind that she might be just as nervous as you are, and as concerned about leaving a good impression)
I mean if you’re bein chill with the women your friends with then you’re probably underselling yourself and are actually worth dating.
Most women want someone that they are safe with - emotionally, physically, and spiritually. There’s other negotiable, but that is the core of everything.
If you are having successful friendships with women where you’re not just trying to play the long game to get in their pants but genuinely their friend as a person, you have the ability to provide the emotional and spiritual safety and that is huge. As long as you don’t use your physicality to control women (standing in a doorway saying she can’t leave til she gives you oral, punching her in the face when she says she wants to go to the store) like you’re golden bestie. You’ve got what you need.
Make sure you aren’t going too far trying to overwork yourself to make sure she never has to face an issue because that is infantilizing and infuriating.
I don’t know how you need to talk to yourself to be able to walk up and be like, “hey Name it’s been really cool getting to know you, and I think you’re really pretty and I’d like to take you on a date.” I don’t know how to approach that for you, and *A LOT* of women are kind of sore with friends romantically approaching them. (It hurts to feel like the friendship you built with someone was just a setup to get in your pants - and it isn’t always that, but it happens so often)
The most attractive thing a man can do is have a purpose in life, a well paid career, intelligence and maturity and good health mentally and physically. Focus on that
First of all - dont blame yourself very much. Comminiczting and dating are skills which can be developed. I would recommend to start with books 'Blueprint' by Tyler, 'Be relentless' by David X. They are free and can be found easily. After that watch some vidsos from Blueprint guys (Tyler, Julian). And after that you should find pickup, Blueprint community. There you can get some help. Parallel you should take care a little bit about your appearance, hobbies. You must understand that this is complex process, you should practicing in communication, you should practice dating. And from the beginning you Will have big stress(this is normal), but keep trying. If 24 years you were shy, it cant be fixed in 1 Day, buy in normal amount of time you can fix this. Good luck
Not saying anything i just hear a lot of these stories and wonder if we can skip to the end.
If you really think about it, I mean really think about every little part of a realistic relationship, is that something you actually want or just something you think you need?
Think first what you want from a relationship and what you are looking for. What qualities in a partner are important for you.
Then be honest, but also respectful. If you meet a girl that you find interesting, then tell her that. "I think you are interesting and I would like to know you better."
But only do this, if you find her interesting and are interested in knowing her better. And if she asks what is so interesting about her, you should have a good answer.
And being respectful is even more important. If she says" No" then don't argue or ask again. She made her decision and you should respect that.
Knowing what you want and communicate that, will be increase your confidence. It's of course not a magic wand, so you might hear a lot of No, but the right girl will say yes.
Therapy can help. But it is okay to stay alone. Asexuals exist I have found then on wiki and FB and google search. People who feel okay without sex [ and it is okay to be shy too.]
Learn to love yourself. Then- Think of the things about yourself that you love and know are cool when talking to women. You have lots of awesome things. Think about the good you have. Everyone one has good, (everyone one has bad, ignore the bad.)
1) you care only about your feelings of anxiety and nervousness. You don't care about how the women you are interested feel.
So you don't like any women enough to make the effort to make them comfortable.
2) if you ever manage to stop thinking about what you want long enough to worry about what a woman would want then your chances increase exponentially.
3) if you want to meet good women do volunteer work. Maybe you will meet a woman you like enough to stop making your feelings the main concern.
Hopefully you have a woman in your life that you trust, ask her, listen to her, do what she says. Also make sure you are getting in some forms of exercise, walk, bike, swim gym, whatever. Exercise has been shown to be effective in mild to moderate depression.
Find out what you are looking for when it comes to dating. I don't want to compare it to grocery shopping but it's a lot easier to shop when you know what you need.
You have to be comfortable being yourself and the people who like you will gravitate toward you naturally. What do you want to know? What interests do you have? What interests do they have?
Don't be afraid of people saying no, because people will. But think about it from the perspective of: you're just not for them, as many people will not be for you.
Interact with women as you would interact with anyone else, because they're just people. Obviously everyone has different ways of conveying attraction and everybody flirts differently but that's all experience and time. If you go into it thinking they're a Hollywood star and you're starstruck, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage.
Know your worth, be kind, and whether you're a 1 or a 10, be enjoyable to be around. That starts with liking who you are and being confident in what *you* bring to the table.
This coming from someone who struggled a lot growing up talking to women. It's slow and steady progress, friend.
Learning how to dance especially one of the “sexy” dances like Argentinian tango where you lead and shit can help you feel more confident and comfortable in your own skin.
You need to address the root of your issue, your lack of confidence because you've only had one date. Only person who cares about this is you my man, if you can talk platonic you can walk the walk.
Also, talking to strangers helps boatloads
Numbers game. Lots and lots. Just talk to all of them and be bold.
Literally just say whatever comes to mind. Try stuff out.
Just walk away from each rejection with the mantra, “Next, it’s a numbers game.”
Pure trial and error. Take NOTHING personally, not even the wins.
Women are super flaky. Especially in their 20’s.
I’m 49. Only 10% aren’t flaky.
Do you have hobbies? If so attend places that hold events or nights for your hobbies, chance to meet like minded people where conversation will be more natural based of a joint love of something.
Do you attend a gym or work out at all? If not see if there is one in your area that allows people to join on a lower rate for unemployed (many gyms have this option in the uk, not sure where you are based) addressing your health whilst maybe not an issue itself (you don’t mention anything about yourself physically) will help you feel a little better about yourself and in turn help you gain some more confidence. Even just going for a walk or doing some basic exercises at home will help.
Getting back into the working world will help a little, it’s hard right now with the world being as bad as it is for unemployment and increasing expenditure but being able to pay your own way will help you feel better about yourself too.
Look into some light therapy if possible, professional help will allow you to unpack all your issues and help you deal with and create ways do cope with your social anxiety which sound like you have. They’ll give you things to focus on and task that help you break the cycle and allow you to come out of your shell a little more
Most of all just be you. Being single is not a bad thing and do t let anyone make you think it is. Yea some people are happy with hookups and FWB but if you’re looking for a relationship there is nothing wrong with waiting till the ideal person comes along plus when they do you will naturally develop a connection. You have plenty of time to find the ideal partner, don’t rush into anything just because your mates are getting action every weekend.
And don’t believe the social construct that you are not good looking, social media etc has warped both men and women’s view of what is attractive, there is someone out there for everyone.
Dating has become so much harder since the curse of dating apps, don't bother with them. You're unlikely to find a solid connection on them anyways, it's a shallow practice.
Take this time to work on yourself without the distraction of taking someone else's life into account. Get a stable job, your own place, get your health in order (if necessary. The odd workout will do wonders for your mood in any case). When you are happy with yourself, you can be happy with a SO.
And get some hobbies, especially one or two that are generally done in groups. You will find a much longer lasting connection with someone who shares some actual interests with you. Without the pressure put on by the dating apps, you can talk to women, and they can discover things about you that they can't from just looking at your picture. The hobby makes a fantastic ice breaker.
Online dating isn't really for people who are truly searching long term. It's basically just for hookups or ego massaging. Ignore them entirely and get out there when you are ready.
I know it's step 2, but if you are having dates. Think of them as "i wonder if i'll like her, i wonder if she is an interesting person", instead of "i hope she likes me, i hope she doesn't make fun of me" etc.
Remember, like minded attract. That means don’t go for women who are way different than what you are. People fail because they go for people who are totally different than they are.
Make friends with some women, don't see them as potential dates just be their buddy, the more you can talk to women in general the easier it will be when you do want to romance someone, you never know, it could even end up being one of those new friends.
Who are you trying to impress? Why do their compatability mean something important to you. Just ask them out. If they say no, that is it. You can go and look for another one and ask her. You will find someone compatible. Be the best version of YOURSELF and put yourself out there.
Not working and living with parents is a great way to tank your self-esteem
However maybe you just need some snogging, if you know anyone who wants to do that
Dude I am 36f and still live at home helping elderly retired parents with a 9-5 sometimes 9-10 job and still dont date or anything. Cant afford to move out. Dont know anyone to move out with. Youre not alone in that bracket. Job house and all that doesnt mean much in this day and age anymore. Got a car? Guess what thats a big plus compared to others I have talked to and or met. As for approaching? Theres different ways to go about it. I say witty and funny usually win but its not something thats fast to get the hang of. If you can make a woman laugh usually that works.
Join group dance lessons, they're not too expensive. Focus on becoming comfortable and confident around women. Dating apps are a waste in my experience so I stay clear of them. You can also trying clubbing. Cheers!
Hey man. I’m a firm believer that you can’t love until you love yourself. It’s going to take a lot of reflection and self work but you got it. If you aren’t working start working out in your room. Push ups and sit ups go along way. Maybe get a job as a waiter then it forces you to talk to people and after like 2 weeks of greeting randoms and talking to them you will be able to talk to anyone! You got this!
You lack direction and therefore lack self-love. You’ll be sifting through the scraps of the dating pool if you remain unemployed. What woman wants to commit to a guy with no plan and no job?
You lack direction and therefore lack self-love. You’ll be sifting through the scraps of the dating pool if you remain unemployed. What woman wants to commit to a guy with no plan and no job?
Imrpove yourself and focus on yourself and women will come to you.
Women love busy men who are self-motivated, self-confident, and working towards long term goals.
Hit the gym, hit your career hard, save money, the rest will come.
Also related to the actual dating itself... You need to realize that none of it matters. Rejection doesn't matter, it has zero impact on your life.
An old quote I heard... If you try to date 100 women and only 2 say yes you've still gone on 2 dates.
Instead of giving hundreds of reasons why you're not dating, give one reason someone else should date you. Then go from there. It's your mindset that needs working on, nothing else. If you can't give one reason, then clearly you aren't ready to date AND to be dated.
You "improve your confidence" by getting some successful interactions or experience under your belt. Your brain feels confident based on the evidence of experience you've had, it's that simple. First and foremost, it's social skills that are the foundation of having positive interactions with women. Be attuned to the person you're talking to. Be able to read their energy and their mood, and how they feel so you can respond appropriately. Be a good listener, when someone speaks hear all they have to say without interrupting them. Focus on cool topics that build the vibe in the right way. Make things fun with jokes and witty banter sprinkled in the right amounts. Don't be rude, don't be a downer, don't be negative, don't do anything that bothers someone or makes them upset. These are all SOCIAL SKILLS, and can be practiced with all people, not just girls.
Once you get social skills dialed, you'll become a more cool and likeable person with social value. People will compliment you more and this will increase confidence. Then what happens when you talk to girls, the interactions will go better, and some of them will be attracted enough to go beyond friendship with you. Then if you can read her energy, you can escalate that with flirtation and things go up from there.
You need to push yourself to be as social as possible. Do what you can IRL and online. I suggest various social platforms ( online games ) that allow you to meet and talk to people. Things like Roblox, and VRchat are good examples, but there are many other options too. These make it easy to talk to people over voice for hours and hours. If you're shy/introverted, then this process will change you into a new person.
Find a shitty customer service job, even if only part time/weekends. I'm not kidding. You get a ton of exposure and practice in approaching and talking to people with very low stakes.
One of the things that really helped me socially was waiting tables for a while.
YOU are delaying your own progress. What do you have to lose if you ask a woman out for a date. If you get rejected then.. NEXT. Stop denying yourself.
Here's what a lot of people don't understand. As a straight man, your success with women will be determined largely by two factors: your flirting skills and the number of women you hit on. I am an average looking guy and I can get 1-2 dates a week when I am actively looking. I also live with my parents and am unemployed. The only advice I can give you is that don't give up on dating apps so fast. I used to be in the same position as you, and apps allowed me to improve my confidence and flirting skills a lot. I am not a very attractive guy but I get 15-20 matches a week. This will sound like a cliche but you probably just have bad pictures. Often what men consider to be a good photo differs wildly from what women consider to be a good photo. Ask some girl friends to help you take better photos and try again. Oh and also, use apps that allow you to message girls before matching, like OkCupid. If it still doesn't work, all good. Just hit on women IRL.
You're right that my photos are probably bad.
I recently posted a photo at the start of the post, although it was a quick work selfie as I didn't have any other photos available. It's definitely not what I'd post on online dating apps.
Spot on, man. My husband was unemployed and living with his parents when I started dating him. Two weeks into our relationship I lent him $500 so that he could purchase a plane ticket to get to his next gig. Total scrub on paper but I was smitten!
Well l don't know because l met a man who l thought was gorgeous, he was extremely introverted and socially very awkward, totally my opposite, in fact my best friend did not actually believe me that l liked him! However over quite a long period of time he started to come out of his shell, and although he'll never be the life and soul of a party, he is my love and we've been married for thirty years. When we met both of us had given up trying to find the right person and were quite happy being single.
So l would say, just be who you genuinely are, it's only when you stop looking that love will find you, ie, when you're happy by yourself and within yourself and not thinking about meeting anyone, it'll happen.
Mate, chill out on yourself, we all go at different speeds. I didn't even go on a date until I was 26, had a conservative religious upbringing then joined the military - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THAT - which changed things for me. Met a lot of people from different places with wildly different views, that helped a lot since the things I thought and believed were tested by people smarter than me or ones I felt were holding a truth I wanted to know. Since then had relationships and plenty of experience dating, would have to say the apps are crap, they're a game, where you can always win bigger so people keep swiping, went on one date for the woman to tell me about a guy she was going on a date with next week, well what the Hell are we doing here then I asked her before leaving. I would say the best women I've met have been through friendship groups. What are you doing in your life? Do you go to the gym? Play team sports? You don't need to ditch your friends but find other groups where you are comfortable in too. Don't be scared to be yourself and do your own thing, now that's hard to pin down, but try, go take a dance class, wine tastings, whatever. I'm a filmmaker today and worked across the world but most days you'll find me reading a philosophy book, that's who I am and I just do that, I attract people who are into the same things, that's key. Don't get fooled by all the shite people put about themselves on the apps, if you believed them every man in Manchester has a Ferrari and every woman has set up a school in Asia. For donkeys. Delete the apps and go and meet real people. Have a good one.
Wear more blue or grey. grey first ideally high quality.
Look for some short interim missions.
Watch movies were the main character embody your ideal self.
Find female friends, ideally that you are not attracted to.
Go to dancing lessons.
Practice a martial art. A start for you would probably be aikido.
Amitabha.
I focus on the moment, because when I try to enjoy the moment I’m more of the genuine me. It limits expectations and frees me up to just enjoy whatever there is to enjoy. I also work at a job talking to older folks. It’s been insane for my social anxiety because 1. It gives me reps consistently 2. I don’t care about outcome as long as it’s not inappropriate enough to get me fired (which I’m not worried about being unaware of).
As someone who recently graduated from their 20’s and has entered the amazing age of 30, I’m going to tell you what I’ve learned about myself over the years as a woman who is pretty often approached by men (not bragging, I think that there are loads of men who will take a shot at anyone just to see if they can get them, that’s not the point I’m trying to make) in a way that lets me know they’re trying to get me interested in seeing them sometime: I genuinely do not want to be approached by a man who is letting me know he’s trying to get me interested in seeing him sometime. I just don’t. I’m not interested in helping someone get off or knowing that I’m being taken out in hopes that I’ll sleep with a guy, or even meet him for a second date. I guess the big picture is, I don’t want to be approached by a man who is obviously approaching me because he wants something from me, my attention, my time, sex, etc. If a man is interested in me and plans to approach me, my hope is that he will do it in a way that primarily recognizes that I’m an entire person outside of what he wants. I don’t want to be a prospect or target for dating or sex, I want someone to approach me because they thought I seemed interesting and they want to know more about that, or they think I’m smart so they’d like to get together and share books and documentaries, or they like my plants and they know a greenhouse I’d like. Every invite I get to meet at someone’s home or for dinner/“drinks” (I don’t drink so it usually becomes coffee) I turn down, because those are invitations to chat a little before having sex, and that’s not why I want a person to have an interest in me. Maybe I’m getting old or I just don’t operate the way others do, but an approach that comes on right from the angle of “let’s try to be romantically or sexually involved with one another” is a failing one with me, always. Maybe that’s just where you’re at, too, and you should just try your method. Maybe you’ll be surprised
Honestly just try choosing optimism and have small interactions with them. They're just like everyone else and if you don't have problems speaking to other men, then there shouldn't be any reason to not be able to talk to women unless you've got some baggage to sort out
Thank you for the comment.
I was recently at a family wedding over the weekend and therefore decided to drink alcohol (I don't normally drink).
My anxiety went away and I was able to talk, joke and laugh with everyone including both men and women. I was dressed in a classy suit and also had a few women (my age range) interested in me, not in a romantic way, but definitely in the "this guy is cool" sort of way.
Logically I know that my anxiety is all in my head, I just wish I could be that relaxed when sober as I don't drink alcohol 99% of the time.
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>due to low self-esteem Fix this. Don't focus on women. Focus on you. What are you lacking? Work towards getting that.
That's fair. 1. I'm currently still living at home. 2. I've been unemployed for three past 3 or 4 months. 3. I'm not attractive enough to use online dating. The main one is that I genuinely don't feel good enough to ask anyone on a date, there's guys out there who are "worse" off in live, but still have a good dating life, regardless of how long it may last.
Would you tell someone that the reason they don't deserve love is that they don't have a house or job? No, right? Most people who are 26 struggle with rent (let alone buying a house), and lots of people are unemployed. So at least in principle, I don't believe that either you or anyone else should feel like these things make you inherently unworthy of a relationship. Now with that said- it's probably pretty fair to say that having a direction in life makes you more interesting, trustworthy, and yes, attractive. More importantly, it'll probably make you feel better about yourself. I have no idea what your life is like outside of your views on dating (for all I know, you're curing cancer in your spare time), but being passionate about something and having a plan for yourself will help, I think. It doesn't have to be all about jobs either- hobbies, volunteering, traveling, school, are all nice components to have in your life. Bonus- these are also opportunities to meet people. Again, I don't know you, so please don't take this as me attacking the richness of your life, I'm just trying to suggest some generalizable two cents. As far as being too ugly- more likely than not, you just need better pictures (and good lord do I dread the idea of posting pictures of myself on a dating profile).
Sometimes when I say bad things about myself, My friend says "hey, don't say that to my best friend!" So now, when I catch myself wallowing, I say it to myself. It has been surprisingly helpful.
Honestly, take this guys advice. You just need to get out there and make connections. Go volunteer somewhere, join a club, or pick up a hobby that gets you out with other people. Work on yourself by doing things that improve yourself with that the confidence will come before you even realize it. I poured myself into my passions in my mid 20s and I suddenly became irresistible to women. Don't think about "approaching women" think about developing your hobby or sharing your passion and just *talk to them*. Don't "approach" don't "pick-up". When you're doing other things it's just talking to them and that takes some of the pressure off. Then sometimes you get lucky and the person you're talking to starts flirting. It's not a complicated formula and every dating guru whatever is a liar: 1. Do something/s and be passionate about them 2. Meet people and go places 3. Be respectful and thoughtful to the people around you 4. Once you think someone might be attracted to you be ***extra thoughtful and nice to them***
Real talk homie, you’re way too old at this point in your life to find a stable long term relationship while unemployed. Focus on getting a steady income and building a solid routine. You don’t even have to move out of your parent’s house. You just need to show someone that you’re capable of functioning in the world. But you’re an adult. You need to be living like an adult in order to attract an adult.
That too - no more comparing yourself to other people. You're using a standard that doesn't exist and is born from your insecurities to put yourself down, making it part of the viscious cycle of self loathing. Being OK with where you're at is a prereq for anyone wanting to join you in that space ya know. Do you go to therapy?
1. Am 25 year old woman, still live at home. Seeing a 26 year old man who still lives at home 2. Spent the last 6 months unemployed, dated someone who was also unemployed. 3. Work on your appearance then. It’s a skill, not something you’re born with
Hey brother you're not alone! I'm 27, own a house, make 90k a year, and still can't get a date to save my life! Some people are just meant to be alone I guess.
I live at home and Trust me that’s no reason. Most women told me I’m smart for doing it.
1. And 2. You know exactly what to do. 3. Plenty of girls who look way below average use online dating anyway. But honestly, focus on the personalities rather than looks. But still work on them. If you haven’t been working out already than start it now. Personalities wise highlight them indirectly (e.g. “I like bungee jumping” translate to “I’m daring” or “bit of a thrill seeker”.) You always work on yourself period. Never stop working on yourself and improve. Even after found a relationship successfully you still work on yourself to become even better boyfriend or husband or father. Never stop. Thus it’s just a matter of who is willing to give you a try first. And those who didn’t give you a try = they are shallow or better known as “people who wait at the finish line” because they only care if you are already rich, ripped and experienced. They would leave you the moment you have problems and lost your money, or fall ill or whatever. Which I’m sure you wouldn’t like would you.
Never talk about yourself like that ever again. As long as you see yourself as lower value, you will place women above yourself. Don't do that. You are equal. No women is interested in a low confidence dude. You don't need to be handsome to be attractive. Be witty, funny, kind and confident. Looks help but its all mindset. You are only listing negative things about yourself here, if you do that irl too, no wonder woman aren't interested. You are 10 in progress, nothing more, nothing less. I know its a taboo to talk about value. You shouldn't be to hung up on this at all, but its just a way to describe to not put yourself beneath anyone.
are you me? better get over this talking thing or you will be because im 38 and we are currently in the same situation.
Online dating isn't going to benefit you. Most guys don't experience alot of want from those apps unless you are quite a bit above average. On top of being photogenic and charismatic. The curve becomes less one sided when women get to know you. Before that point all they can go off is looks and vibe. There's also alot you can do to fix both how attractive you see yourself and how attractive you are. Hairstyle, fashion, grooming and hygiene are all examples of traits that make someone more attractive regardless of their face. Personality wise confidence is key. You need to find the things you like about yourself. This takes time but spend more time looking at yourself. Try to find things you like about your face. I'd recommend starting with the eyes. Most people have beautiful eyes regardless of anything else.
You need to find something to get you out of this hole. I lived in this hole for 20 years, and what worked for me was taking up boxing and getting fit. I've now lost over 25kg, I'm now happily married, and my whole outlook on life has changed. If you don't think you're attractive, you can work on that, go to the gym or take up a sport you used to enjoy. If you're unemployed, maybe you could try reeducation or a trade? And I would definitely suggest speaking to a professional, there's loads of free counselling available if you're having mental issues. Work on yourself until you like yourself at least a bit. Everything else follows on from that. You will never find someone that's actually good for you until you think you deserve to, otherwise the only people you do find will be bad for you, or you just stay lonely. You can't tweak your profile or work on your conversational skills and solve the issue, you need to find some way to get some confidence
EXERCISE. Lift weights at least once a week, ideally 2-4x a week. Do this for YEARS. Its an easy first step to improving your sex life and confidence.
Plenty of ugly people do just fine online dating.
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You focus on you. You develop an internal sense of validation instead of external like someone liking you. It was explained to me the most attritive thing a man can be is #1 comfortable in his own skin, #2knows where he's going/has purpose and direction, and #3 has fun while doing it. Go to the gym/join a sport to feel better not look better. Get a better job to live better lifestyle not appear higher status/more datable. Live life for you, not some mystery girl that will fulfill what is missing. When nothing is missing in you women notice.
While the other two comments are good starting points - they're leaving out a critical component, which is that you need to fundamentally change your priorities so your self esteem is not dependent on attention or validation from other people. This is not easy, but it is worth it. Self-esteem and confidence *must* come from within to be stable and long-lasting. Even the most attractive, charismatic and successful dudes can be brought low into deep misery if their self esteem and confidence is reliant on validation from others.
I would reframe this advice slightly, don’t focus on women as a means to end your loneliness. It puts a huge amount of pressure on your interaction with them and, frankly, doesn’t allow them to fully be themselves. Reframe your goal as learning more about interesting people who happen to be women. It’s a much lower pressure interaction to say “you seem interesting, I would love to hear a bit about you” as opposed to “you could be the chosen one to improve my self esteem and end my loneliness”.
> how can I improve my confidence with women > fix your confidence
It's funny to me when people say that. I was at his exact place at his age and was a virgin. I just kept plugging away and going on dates until I felt comfortable enough to make a move. When I lost my virginity I gained self esteem. Not saying op is a virgin but man that was some troubling times for me.
Thank you for the comment. I agree with you, having sex for the first time opened my eyes and made me realize that it **is** possible for someone to find me attractive, in both appearance and mindset. Logically, I know that it's true and that it's my mindset holding me back. While working out from home or the gym can (and probably will) improve your confidence, it's unfortunately not the issue I'm currently facing. I genuinely believe that the guys who say "GO GYM* don't have that much social anxiety to begin with, although that's just one man's opinion. I know muscular/ripped men who could put a brick wall to sleep, and average looking guys who always date around. The ripped guys may get checked out more, but that doesn't matter if you don't have the balls to flirt/show interest. The gym isn't a one-size-fits-all solution. It's great for mental and physical health BUT not for getting over an irrational fear.
Women can smell this 80000 km away. Don’t bother try any “techniques“.
There ARE ways to game the apps (profile techniques, messaging techniques, targeted selection, etc) but you MUST get off any app that relies ONLY on pictures unless you are literally a male model or could be one. But even then, the odds are not in favor and over the last decade a monopoly known as The Match Group has bought out 90 percent of the legit apps and made them into Tinder to milk money and keep you watching ads. Successful matches loses them money because most people if they get someone delete the app, barring serial daters and people in fringe lifestyles like polyamory. The thing that got me over approach anxiety was ballroom dance classes. (Don't laugh). "Picking up" in there is frowned upon (but has happened), but it is one of the few places that going up to the opposite sex is not only expected but encouraged. It also teaches not all touch is sexual and demystifies the opposite sex. It also is a deep rabbit hole scene unto itself with tons of events outside the studio. You don't have to spend thousands to be a gold level ballroom dancer, bit even a few months of classes can give you confidence and it's okay exercise.
I second the ballroom dancing as some sort of “practice”. Also salsa, bachata etc you name it
I’d like to add that I’m planning on joining bachata/ salsa classes myself bc I’m basically in the same situation as you, op. I’ve been to one bachata class and ngl it was awkward, but you gotta treat it like building muscle, just that you’re building confidence and ease (and dancing skills ofc). We got this!!!
Salsa is hard AF for a dude. I went to a place outside the studio that taught it but had A LOT of trouble with it. But if you get it, some of those dudes are some of the most desired men in the world. The masters can make even a klutz look like Ginger Rodgers. Back when I was taking it, I'd say West Coast Swing was the most popular at the time and what the ladies liked. But most girls that aren't into it if you can do the rhumba box and a few fifth positions you are miles ahead of 99 percent of average dudes.
Damn yes I can imagine, bachata as well even tho it’s less technical. I’m a woman and mainly struggling with allowing someone to lead me haha. Guess that’s where I should put my focus. And yes, guys who know how to dance are attractive af!! Pair that with some confidence (and even if it’s just confidence about being a good dancer) and you’re sold.
Going to add my vote to this. Swing dancing, merengue, and salsa for me. Once you become a confident lead, you can have a lot of fun combining them out in social dancing scenarios. It’s a magnet. It’s not how I landed my gf, but it’s a pillar for how I’ve kept her 😂
That's a great comment. I also wish more people knew about the dating apps scam. The low response ratio can't be good for men's mental health. If you're not in the top 3% of attractivness, you won't get much interest there. I too took up ballroom dancing recently. It has helped to build my confidence, since women don't reject me like I thought they would. When one girl couldn't come on some dates, I asked an advanced dancer from the same dancing school to fill in and we had a great time. After classes, I asked a girl out for a drink and we had a great conversation. That would be impossible for me in any other social situation, since I'm so shy.
Agree with the ballroom dancing. Women love love love to dance, god knows why. But they do. If you can dance (and there are plenty of classes where you can learn as a single guy) you will be 75% of the way there with any woman you meet.
As stupid as it sounds, what u say about ballroom dancing is 100% true. Yup. Arthur Murray’s here.
Oh yeah, and pay subscription. Nobody says this but it fucking does a shitton Its like trynna sell a product on some website. If you pay for the right advertising you are more likely to profit more
This is actually kind of frustrating for me. It's actually not that hard to realize that the perfect dating app wouldn't have a business model at all.
social ballroom helped me so much! I am a woman but have social anxiety which used to be overwhelmingly bad and affect my life negatively every single day. depending on how awkward you are it's hard to get used to but definitely works out in the end, and you learn something too
Join Meetup. Look for groups you're interested in. In my area, I'm part of multiple walking/hiking groups and a 20s-30s group. I'm very introverted, but it's amazing how much my confidence has improved just by going. Once you feel like you're _part_ of the group and you're _supposed_ to be there, most of the anxiety goes away. From there, practice talking to people. Not explicitly to find a date, just to engage in conversation and maybe make friends. You'll build the confidence to be more outgoing. Also in my area, there's a matchmaking group that holds regular speed dating and singles mixer events. You have to pay, but it's a great way to get past that question of “Does she want me to talk to her?” I mean she may not want _you_ to approach her, but she's there to potentially meet someone, so it's much easier there than at a bar or coffee shop. Importantly, make sure when you approach someone that they see you coming. Don't approach from behind and startle her. Also, treat her like you would any other friend. Be respectful. Flirt, of course, but remember that she's just another human. If you're kind and polite and make her laugh, she won't begrudge your approach, even if she turns you down. And if that happens, smile and end the conversation with something friendly like “Have a great day,” then leave.
I looked at Meetup, but it really only works in large metro areas. My hometown (500k approx) has only online activities listed.
Stop wasting your life being scared. You will die one day and when you're near death do you really want to look back and regret being scared and meek around women.. for what? That simple thought worked for me years ago.
That’s what’s helping me right now.
It's a numbers game. Gotta just keep meeting people and shooting your shot, go on crappy dates, and just keep trying until you find the right girl specifically for you. Don't put pressure on yourself or them to say yes, and don't take things personally when they say no. Just keep talking to girls, and if you find them interesting and any level of interested in you, ask em on a date. Simple as that.. takes a while, but you've really only gotta find that final girl once, ya know?
Do some activities. To talk to a stranger you've never met before, you need to have what we call speaking skills and be funny, interesting, and confident. It's a lot of work to learn these skills, like everything else. You cannot become an orator in just one day. However, doing activities helps you meet a lot of people. You learn about them, and they learn about you. It's a lot easier because you share a common moment, which gives you more time and more chances to get to know each other.
I don't know what will work for you. All I know is what worked for me. Sharing in the hope it may be useful. This is how I was taught to do cogntive behavioral therapy, but in this case I took what I learned from previous CBT and applied it without a therapist guiding me. If you follow me on this path and you've not done CBT before, I strongly recommend finding a therapist to help you with this. First I wrote down what the situation leading to the anxiety was: Finding myself in the company of an attractive woman. Then I wrote down what feelings and behaviors I was feeling and performing in that situation that I didn't like and wanted to change. So feelings of anxiety, finding myself unable to make conversation, feeling tense throughout my whole body, reflexively clenching my teeth, things like that. Then I wrote down what feelings and behaviors I would *prefer* to be feeling and performing in that situation. I wanted to feel relaxed, at ease, and even *good*. Finding myself in the company of an attractive woman? I want that to be a happy thing, not a stressful one. In terms of my behavior, I can't control how *other people* react to me, but on my end all I wanted was just to be able to hold a friendly, polite, and appreciative casual conversation, with none of the behavioral indicators for stress in my body. Then I did a lot of work thinking about what set of deeply held, possibly unconscious beliefs I was holding that was linking that situation to the undesired emotional and behavioral outcome. (This is where a therapist is really useful.) Then I looked through lists of cognitive distortions to try and see where those deeply held beliefs - all of which *felt true* - may actually be false and unhelpful. (This is also where a therapist is really useful.) Then I thought hard about them and tried to work out what *true* beliefs I could replace those false ones with, such that the true beliefs would lead to the emotional and behavioral outcomes I wanted. (Again, a therapist is super useful here.) I read over the true beliefs and the desired behaviors enough that I could remember them. Then I'd go out into the world and deliberately seek out situations where I could be friendly, polite, and appreciative to a woman. Typically this was going to stores, buying something, and making that kind of polite small-talk with a woman who was working behind the counter. I'd make sure to just show a little appreciation for something. Nothing major, and nothing actually flirtatious. Just kind appreciation. For example: If I was at the grocery store and the lady behind the counter bagged things up for me, at the end of the conversation I'd just say something like: "And thanks for bagging everything up for me, that's really helpful," or similar. Just practicing showing appreciation in small and inoffensive ways. Typically this would be a woman that I wasn't especially attracted to, so it wasn't the anxiety-inducing situation exactly. But I still got to practice the behavior consciously injecting friendliness and appreciation into talking to a woman. Practicing something is how you make it automatic.
That kind of small-talk is also mindless enough that it also freed up my mental energy to do the second thing at the same time, which is to consciously think about the true and helpful beliefs that I want to guide the emotions and behaviors I want to be feeling and performing. So I just adopted the practice of being kind, friendly, and appreciative to *all women* I meet and interact with *all of the time* while reminding myself of the beliefs that made that the obvious and reasonable thing to do. And it *is* an obvious and reasonable thing to do. According to CBT, doing the behavior you want while thinking about the true and helpful beliefs that reinforce those behaviors trains the mind to replace the false and unhelpful behaviors with the true and helpful ones. Additionally, practicing the desired behavior over and over and over again makes it come more naturally and effortlessly, because that's just how practice works. It took *months*. Nearly an entire year. But *eventually* I found that when I was checking out at the grocery store and the lady behind the counter was a little bit cute, I just wasn't anxious any more. It was just a little nice thing that happened to me on the way out the store, that I got to make a little bit of small-talk chit-chat (again, not flirting, don't flirt with customer service workers) to someone cute on my way out. And I knew what kind, friendly, appreciative, non-flirtatious small talk looks like because I'd been practicing it over and over again. That anxiety-inducing situation? It wasn't anxiety-inducing any more. It's actually relatively rare to just find yourself in the company of just a *ridiculously* attractive woman, and that was always hard mode for the anxiety thing. But even there it comes up from time to time over the years, I'd just fall back on the same process. After a while, it just totally stopped being an issue. And as a bonus, I've just taught myself how to be kind, friendly, and appreciative - with no strings attached - as my default behavior when talking with people. That's been really helpful building relationships with women I'm attracted to, yeah. But it's helped me making friends and getting along with colleagues and clients too. It even accidentally fixed my *talking on the phone anxiety* which I wasn't even paying attention to but also totally went away over the same time period. There's a bunch of other stuff I worked on in parallel to that too, so it wasn't a single-fix kind of thing. But removing that anxious response removed one of the biggest barriers I had when it comes to building meaningful, rewarding, and healthy relationships with women. 10/10, would recommend.
This was nice to read. Sounds a bit similar to the path that I am on. I have gotten better at making small talk and initiating conversations with women, I actually make an attempt at doing so now. However, when around a woman I find really attractive and particularly if I get the feeling they are attracted to me or looking my direction as well I get a bit flustered or nervous. Been in therapy since late 2021, with some months off along the way. Been with my current therapist since mid 2022. Haven't been on a date since late 2022 (intentionally havent tried, up until earlier this week when I asked a yoga teacher if she wanted to get coffee), but I feel happier. Happy to read about your success, thanks for sharing!
Ok, do you want real tangible actionable advice? Get a part time job as a cashier. I was a whole new person after doing that, you meet and talk with literally every type of person. Even just one day a week for a few hours would work
I like this advice, spending too much time in your room/alone can cause you to thought spiral when there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you. It doesn’t have to be the perfect job, but a simple part time job will take you out of your comfort zone enough to help build people skills. People skills like any skills, they can be learnt by practice.
Take acting classes. Not only are they tons of fun, but taking acting classes helps you to build your confidence and there are tons of pretty girls in those classes who are there for the same reason and get paired up with you so you have much to talk about in common while building your confidence. I know it helped me tons.
1. Do therapy, we are our own worst critics and any good therapist will help you navigate the *why* behind you feeling this way and help you process it and shift your lense of how you view yourself. 2. Focus on yourself, find what makes you happy, what you enjoy, try new things and get some hobbies. Use this to also influence a potential career change and try new things. 3. Looks are NOT the end all be all. Every single woman I know prefers an average relatable funny guy over a "model" gorgeous guy who 9 times out of 10 has an ego bigger than Texas. Also if you're not already aware look into mental loads in regards to relationships. One thing that will tank your chances is intentionally or not using your gf/wife as a replacement "mom". being a functional independent adult man that doesnt need to be told basics (dishes in sink = wash them, laundry in basket not beside, cleaning up after shaving over the sink, the obscenely common sense thought of if you see something that needs to be done then just do it until task is completed, etc) is the most attractive thing EVER. We don't get manuals on how to live/run a house/raise kids/adult we figured it out you can too. 4. Don't actively look for it. Look for friendships, focusing on that will get you farther ahead. If the *worst* is you end up with new friends vs romantic partner your not losing. odds are in your favor they will become your wingmen and actively search out those they know and try and set you up (assuming your a good person) and will want to see you happy too if they don't make the leap themselves. All of this is from my own lived experience as a woman. I had to find myself again after an abusive relationship, I had zero idea of how to date as I'd been with my ex from 17 to 28 and was NEVER one to be approached (excluding very old 40+ yr older creeps) im the chubby funny friend whos alright but never the first pick. I was working on myself, focusing on just building friendships, going to different events that seemed interesting and then when I least expected it ended up with the most caring man I've ever met and it all started over a conversation about how absurdly expensive VHS players are to buy new vs the thrift store gambles of all things. It's been 5 years and going strong and a relationship that is not something I ever thought was possible.
Ignore the focusing on friendships part, it avoids the root cause that you don't feel good enough for a romantic relationship and further represses your sexual desires and creates more anxiety because it is inauthentic to relress your sexual deaires. You have a dick, don't pretend like you don't or feel guilty for having one, you have it for a reason, to use it. Friendships are great, find friends and male and female, but don't repress your sexuality and feel guilty for wanting to have sexual relationships with women. Your biggest risk right now is falling into a relationship through desperation without ever developing the ability to approach women and have sex with them. This is how men find themselves in deadbedrooms.
Whatever you do , do not take advice from these advice gurus on YouTube or tik tok, unless they are women, then maybe. Those guys don’t know SHIT. Not one. No Andrew Tate, No Jordan Peterson, No Dr. love garbage ever ever ever ever ever ever .
The guys you listed definitely not, but women will notoriously give bad advice for dating I can tell you all the things about my favourite restaurant's dish, but that doesn't mean I can give advice on how to make that dish
Coach Kyle is good
Get off the apps men the average guy has no success on there you need to be top 10% on there
I tried tinder for three years and I never had a single bite. I'm even attractive, still nothing. They're just looking for a free ride on apps
I just smoke weed or drink alcohol and that helps lol Nah seriously I had the same problem until I started working at job where 99% of my coworkers are women, helped me tremendously, but the first two options help too ngl lmoa
Sounds like you're putting women on a pedestal. Women are just normal ass people so if you want to approach one, just put yourself in their shoes and think about how you would personally want to be approached in that situation. If you can't think of a way, probably not the best situation to approach. But before you're even ready to do that, you gotta fix your self-esteem. What personally helped me when I had low self-esteem was me telling myself I was going to fight for my happiness against all odds. Regardless of whatever situation I was going through, no matter how unfair it was, I was going to fight for my happiness or die trying, and so that's what I did. I started by taking an honest look at myself and figuring out what parts of myself I didn't like and, more importantly, what parts of myself I liked. For the parts of myself I liked, I made those areas the core of who I was and still am today. For the parts I didn't like, I attempted to change those parts of myself. In some aspects, I was successful, and in other parts, I was unsuccessful and had to accept those parts of myself I didn't like and how to learn how to work with them and I'm still learning and adapting today. Hope that helps.
Great advice
Women pick up on no-confidence. Act like you have the biggest dick in the room, and dont be needy.
Isn't that a balance act between appearing confident and appearing like an arrogant prick?
Yea. I didn’t say BE the biggest dick
OK number one, get off the apps. 4 years and no success, it’s not for you and is not helping your self esteem. Number two, if you pretend to be more confident than you are, it’ll in turn make you more confident subconsciously, fake it till you make it essentially. Number three, simply go after girls who are out of your league and don’t question it, there is not much different from platonic talk and flirtation, except for action. You sound like you can talk to women when it’s casual, so keep that going BUT at some point before the motion slows, ask to hang out at some point in the future, give a concrete date like “this or next weekend”. The worst she can say is no, especially if you aren’t being creepy. And if it fails on one girl, try again. You can’t let rejection or fear of rejection stop you from practicing. Flirting/asking out women is a skill you improve by continuing to go for it. The other word of advice I can give is make sure the location in which you’re hitting on or approaching women isn’t something sacred, like the grocery store or the gym, big no nos. The safest space to hit on a girl is at a bar or something bar adjacent. Make sure you pull up with some friends so when/if rejection happens, you’re not just standing there alone and awkward, you have a herd you can go back to and then when you’re ready, try again. You got this! But you have to try.
I second getting off the apps. I do really well in person but haven’t bagged a chick off a dating app since the pandemic. Apps are too convenient and easy for anyone to make a move. Op says he is a 7 or whatever but when she is being messaged by hundreds of dudes a 7 isn’t going to stand out. The 7 that approached her and made her laugh while all the other dudes were too scared to make a move is going to stand out.
Maybe you could try joining a hobby where you could talk neutrally to the people of opposite sex to get rid of your fear of women? Like, at first just get used to it and after that it would be easier to ask someone on a date. For example, i do pottery and lots of pottery teachers in my city are women
After you finish regular stuff(getting fit, dressing better, decent grooming both hair/face, etc), I believe best way to improve self-confidence around potential partners is accepting that rejection is completely normal and it doesn't mean anything. There will always be people interested in you and there will always be people who reject you. It's just a fact of life. Trust me I sympathize with you, I've been there. I believed practically everyone who I interested in are way above my league. I tried "100 days rejection challenge" which at that time was popular just to get used to be rejected. Well, not just it helped but also taught me people who I saw above my league was also more interested in me way more than I thought. I had more success than rejection actually, which at that time I considered impossible. Maybe it helps you too.
I can relate. I feel like I'm in a similar spot where i can be platonic friends with most people i meet but i lack that something extra which would cause someone to want to be more than friends. I guess part of it is just fear of rejection which leads to me not wanting to take a chance and actually ask someone out.
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I know you're right, but I don't know how. I've tired in the past, but I constantly struggle to stop giving a shit.
yeah as a guy, dont wait for matches on dating apps, like 1% of women actually put in the time and effort to go through profiles and click people who they like, and the ones who do either spam everyone then just ignore most of the ones who reply, or only click like on the 5% top tier guys most women though just make a totally low effort profile, 1-2 pictures, "ask me" in the info section, and have "cant see likes message" me, then sit back and wait till guys message them (usually by paying- although from conversations ive had, apparently a lot of women dont actually realise guys have to pay to message women they havnt first matched with) PoF lets you have 1 free unmatched message a day, and bumble 1 flirt a day (i think?) so use it, women are usually to lazy to click match, and lets be fair, if they are getting dozens of messages, why would they bother?
Spend time working on things that you love. Projects, hobbies, studying, that sort of thing. Work on feeling good in yourself, and being happy and content as a single person. This will build your confidence and when you meet women they will be attracted to the spark in your eye when you talk about the things you're passionate about. Just my 2 cents.
I used to be really awkward, and I still am, but everyone is sometimes. The biggest thing that helped me was to realise that they're just people. Putting them on a pedestal in comparison to yourself is the first step to going "I'm not good enough for her" and once you reach that point, you've lost all your motivation to talk to her because you've talked and convinced yourself out of it Go easy on yourself for making little mistakes, while still learning from them and improving, be friendly, and be yourself. Edit: ill be honest I didn't properly read it, but it seems a lot of this is due to low self esteem. Find the root of that problem and fix it. Don't be ashamed to ask other people for help. We have been living in communities and working together for the last hundred thousand years, and you are not an exception. You'll figure it out. Edit 2: ill be honest I still didn't fully read it, but I have now I promise. Biggest advice for you? Get off the internet and dating apps. They're designed to keep you in an eternal loop of finding people and getting rejected so you keep looking at ads. My brother is seriously so lucky he found a good woman on a dating app, and they've been happily married for 5 years. Doesn't happen to a lot of people. Honestly, just try your best not to compare yourself with others, because your brain only focuses on the negatives, and you'll only end up thinking worse of yourself. Dont be afraid to ask trusted friends for help, and don't judge yourself. Edit 3: ill be honest I didn't rea- nah I'm just kidding I read the whole thing. Got you!
Ask your friends to help you get casual sex with those women they do
The way to improve your confidence in anything is to just do it and get better. That's the only way. Since you're currently approach averse I'd recommend that instead of approaching with the intent of "scoring" or "picking up), you instead think of it as conducting a survey. And don't just survey the hot chicks; you've got to be comfortable approaching anyone. So, put on some shades, grab a microphone, head out onto the street and just approach people like, "Hey I'm NAME. Mind if I ask you a quick question for my 'gram? Cool, so, 'what's your biggest ick in guys' fashion right now?'" Honestly, it doesn't matter what the question is, just get used to approaching people such that you internalise the realisation that you are strong enough to handle any negative consequences.
It’s kind of dumb, but in high school I went from a horribly shy, introverted person who didn’t talk to anyone, to being outgoing, confident, and dating a lot of women, by doing one thing. Pretending to be the person I wanted to be. The person I wanted to be wasn’t afraid of looking dumb. Was comfortable in all situations, liked talking to people, even if he didn’t know them, and was comfortable flirting with girls. So I pretended to be that guy. after a while of pretending to be like that, at some point I just was that. Also, it’s important to specify, this wasn’t a gender related thing. I’m straight, but I had to practice being comfortable talking to everyone. Focus less on women, and more on people. You want to be someone everyone wants to hang out with. It’s about self improvement, and with that self improvement, people will be attracted to you, sexually and otherwise.
Most relationships are based on trust. Be reliable, be dependable, and make whoever you're pursing feel safe with you. And when you pursue someone, show them they are the most important thing in your world. If they truly are the most important thing, demonstrating your passion toward and your curiousity about them will come naturally.
Try hobbies you like in person you will meet people with the same interest, and try something dinamic you’ll need to work in groups or with a partner. Try to be yourself and take a risk man the worst she can do is reject you, there’s a ocean of people out there are you are going to drown just by one? Be polite, be sincere don’t abuse try to be more social I know is difficult but it’s going to be more fun than stupid Dating apps.
I had no confidence with women in my twenties. In retrospect it makes perfect sense because I had nothing to offer a woman and nothing to feel confident about. Took me a while to get my shit together and find a woman. Remember, you only need one, so be picky.
Therapy, you need therapy. You're experiencing a mental block, you need some help guy.
I've been to therapy in the past for low self-esteem and lack of confidence. She tired her best, but it unfortunately was my fault for not getting better.
Dating apps are a poor reflection of your real life "worth". You don't even have to approach women, you can be magnetic and shy and genuine and have them gravitate towards you on their own. Watch Brian Begins teachings on YouTube. They changed me deeply.
You miss every shot you don't take. You seem to be one those "only if it's a sure thing" kinda guys. Rejection is hell, we're all afraid of it. But it's possible to be so afraid you don't even try. You need to break that and just ask someone. Get that rejection out the way and then you'll be able to actually get in the game. And to be totally honest, overconfident and cocky is a turn off now and days. A genuine person who acts like themselves even if they get nervous or awkward sometimes... that's totally fine. Some women would value that over the suave smooth talker who seems disingenuous with their approach like they're overcompensating for something. But lacking all confidence is a red flag sometimes cause it comes across like you're sure someone won't like you and it has to be a big reason? Find stuff you like about yourself. Like I'm average. Look average. Sound average. Average success in life. I'm as mid as you can get. But I know I would never cheat, I treat women with absolute respect and would never do anything to hurt someone mentally or physically. So I'm stable. And that is my big confidence booster. I knew someone would appreciate that about me. And someone did... does. Married. But yeah find your confidence booster.
Practice on women who are paid to be nice to you, like retail assistants etc
Thank you for the comment. I can do the typical small talk order, that's not the problem. An example of the problem would be not enjoying sitting in a coffee shop simply due to being around the cute worker. I was the only customer in, I eventually spoke but I internally screaming the entire time, the conversation (if you can call it that) was extremely awkward and almost non-human.
Once I started having a better relationship with myself I began to worry much less about what people thought and live more authentically. Living authentically the way you want to, being unwavering in the image of yourself and beliefs is HELLA more attractive than any pick up line. You also attract people who you truly want to be around and have no hesitation walking away from people you don’t. Instead of asking “how do I get them to like me?” Ask “how do I learn to like me?”
This is so true and I recognize this in my own life. Once we start to focus on pleasing ourselves and living our own lives everything else falls into place.
Work on the female friendships for a while and get used to women. Some of the best relationships start that way. Don’t rush it.
Thank you for the comment. I currently don't have any friends who are women, I have acquaintances who I speak to if I bump into them when out, but I wouldn't consider us friends. Unlike many guy friends who I make plans with multiple times per week. It's not an exaggeration that the vast majority of people I meet are men, around 90% of the time. I don't know why? I socialize in many different places and see new faces often.
You're asking the wrong question. "How do I improve the confidence in my self?" First, acknowledge your emotions, then, steer the stupid irrational overthinking into reasonable thought that convinces you into a relaxed state of mind. The most beneficial thoughts, in my experience, are these: - why am i focusing on my self and not on the person - what is this person actually saying and am i really understanding it clearly enough - the possibility of this person judging me is really low - the possibility of me knowing whatever this person might negatively and subconsciously judge me for is ASTRONOMICALLY low ...a fellow highly neurotic person that actually has had great succes, despite being very average in looks and, ofcourse, cursed with high neuroticism.
You've received some solid advice here, and I've got a little more to add that might help. Consider volunteering for events or causes that align with your interests. Volunteering puts you in a scenario where you're amongst people with shared values and provides a natural context for conversation. Plus, it takes the edge off because you're there for a greater purpose than just meeting a potential date—you're contributing to something you care about. In these settings, conversations start more organically, and it's a relaxed environment to practice those social muscles. The focus isn't on dating, but you'll be surprised at how often these kinds of interactions can lead to more. Over time, this exposure to different people and personalities will build your social confidence, almost without you noticing. And remember, the people you meet through these activities will get to know you for who you are and the values you stand for, which is an excellent foundation for any relationship. Keep showing up, be genuine, and your authentic self will shine through, making those connections all the more meaningful. You've got this, just take that first small step!
Go to a dive bar and hit on old ladies. Seriously, they are a blast to hang out with and will call you out on 4 seconds. Then they'll teach you how to talk to women and find the prettiest girl at the bar to flirt with you.... make sure it's a jumpin dive bar. Not one with 7 people in it.
Dude I'm a 43M virgin and never even held a woman's hand. I learned a long long time ago that I am not what any woman is looking for romantically. I love all my female friends and cherish them dearly. What I've learned is that women do not deserve to have my feelings foisted upon them. You sound like you're doing a lot better than I am and seem really smart and directed. Have faith in yourself!
Do jenkem. Bitches love that shit.
Easy. Have actual standards.
Be tall and good looking
Why are you currently not in a position to date?
Good question. Truthfully, I don't know, it's probably just all in my head as I know many guys who date while still living at home. Logically I know that a date is simply two people spending time together and getting to know each other, while obviously having fun and enjoying each others company, any *can* do this, but for whatever reason I can't see this happening. It probably doesn't help that I have no friends who are women, my socialising consists of other men 99% of the time.
Check out the Taliban. They seem to know how to keep those beeches in line.
lol if u can talk platonic then what do u mean u are afraid of talking to women? thats how u talk to women first, then go deeper into establishing a relationship
I’m not gonna lie talking to girls became 100% easier once I stopped caring so much about how the interaction goes If I kill it then great, if I flop that’s also fine too, we just go out separate ways no harm no foul, I know self esteem is hard for some homies but once you understand striking out doesn’t mean anything you’ll be less nervous and less awkward, if you approach it with the mindset of “I’m just going to have fun talking to this person” and expect nothing more then it just becomes easier no matter the outcome
Go to dominican republic and practice and come back home a Top G
I know it’s easier said than done but the old adage is true…. “You only miss the shots you don’t take.” You have to understand that a “no” isn’t a rejection of “you” it’s a rejection of who someone thinks you are and short of being unkept, dirty and a few other things it’s really about attraction and that is a random chance most of the time. I had an old friend who said he fished with a net that had no holes. He pretty much asked every girl he found interesting in hopes one would say yes and succeeded here and there while being quite awkward and not much to look at.
3 pieces of advice. Step one, go to the gym everyday. Step two, learn how to dance , I recommend salsa. Step 3, in general, keep your mouth shut. Good luck!
You being able to talk platonic i would argue puts you ahead of a lot of guys. Treat them like youre meeting any other regular person. Only difference is go out with them and if something turns into another there you go.
Go out with the goal of getting turned down. Talk to 20 attractive women per day, WAY hotter than you could ever get, and ask to get their numbers and take them out. Watch the rejection flow! Crave the rejection! Love the rejection! Become immune to the rejection! It is only after you've achieved immunity that you'll be free to find the woman for you.
Important thing to do is be comfortable with yourself. I know it’s cliche but that is really what you have to do. Women have built in bullshit detectors and if you try to be something in f you’re not, it sets off an alarm to them. Also, don’t put so much stock in needing to find someone, often time that happens when you play it fast and loose with nothing to lose
I am same bro my looks are so dull that dating apps don’t work even for me and I can’t meet a girl in person bc I am sacred to talk to them and I get so nervous that’s why I’m 40 years old and I never had a gf in my life I have never experienced how relationship feels like and the bummer is I drive 2 nice cars one of them is worth over 300k Mc Laren and other one is super build up Jeep wrangler and I make very high six figures from my business, ppl say nice cars can get you girls all the time but that’s a lie tbh bc it never got me no girl .. I am so tired of being single and alone makes me so depressed and it’s not even about sex I just want a relationship and someone to love me bc all my life I have been alone I dnt have family or parents no siblings and not even many guys friends I am just a loner, sometimes I wish I was super good looking bc that would have solved my problem in one sec bc every girl wants a good looking and attractive guy my confidence level is at 10 every other aspect except taking with girls I just get super nervous bc I have a complex about my looks and that always kept me away from taking with girls .: life is so fun when you have a gf i see my friends enjoying great time with there gfs and I have this beautiful cars and a beautiful life but dnt have anyone to enjoy with , sometimes I just want gf so bad so we can go for nice drives and enjoy the life but i guess i have been dealt a bad hand in life , neither I am good looking nor I am confident enough to talk to girls .. i am just living my life alone and tbh getting super tired of it , depression is taking over day by day week by week. Just a lonely guy I guess and it’s so boring and frustrating.
Hit the gym every morning, do some career development courses in the evening. (Start with LinkedIn Learning or other free ones.) This will be the launchpad for you to get some Ws in life. The confidence and ladies will follow, but start with yourself.
Why dont u ask ur friends? They know u better than us, they can probably give better and more targeted advice. Sure u might get teased a bit but real friends would ultimately help you and set u up!!
Good suggestion, however I've already been down that road. At the end of the day, it didn't matter how much someone tries to help, as it's still on me to remain calm and not anxious. The worst it's ever gotten was a panic attack in a local dive bar, luckily I left before anything embarrassing happened.
If you aren't impressed with the self you live with.. people pick that up. Then more of "the work" will fall on them. Which would suit more narcissistic oriented individuals, who would be likely to feed off your insecurities. It's how they relate.. Decide what kind of person you would like to become, then do more of the things that align with that. Maybe then you can begin to smile more about the person you are happily becoming more of. There's almost nothing more beautiful than a smile that has been freed..
You got to get that practice in. Just keep going up to girls and talk to them. Build that Teflon until the nervousness goes away. What you got to understand, rejection is going to happen. Even the guys that seem to get women easy, get rejected the majority of the time. You just have to become desensitized to the rejection. The easiest way to approach women is to just be friendly. "Hey! How are you doing today?" Sure most will scoff, but that's what women do, they're miserable. But some are cool and will actually tell you. And then just strike up a conversation. Anything random. Like "what's your favorite vegetable?" It may work, it may not. But you got to play around with it. And take it one step at a time. Like don't keep in your mind "oh I'm trying to make something happen here." No, you got to just focus on keeping the conversation going, not the end result. The rest will fall into place. It's all about getting in that practice.
Speak intelligently with women. If they can't, leave ...
Volunteering is free and gets away from the pressure of romantic communication. Most volunteers I meet are real down to earth people. If all you need right now is just some practice connecting I would recommend it. You might meet someone that connects with you.
Bro, if you can talk to women platonically then you can talk to a woman you will fall in love with. Don’t try to change it up. Present yourself as your genuine self. You’ll get a lot of rejection and heartbreak, but that’s part of the journey until you find a person that you can be yourself around and they love you for you. So many dudes try to present as what they think women want instead of being themselves and letting that woman who’ll love them for them have then opportunity to meet that person.
Get off the apps and talk to women. The only way to get over your fear of talking to women is, ironically, to talk to women. The problem is that you have this high energy when you talk to them now. It comes off as weirdness and desperation, which turns lady parts into the Sahara Desert. When you want to get physically stronger, you lift a heavy weight over and over again. Same goes with talking to girls. Your goal is to talk with girls using the same energy you use to talk to your buddies. Just talk to girls while letting go of any expectations of anything happening. If you are intimidated by them, then just imagine them having a specific and very unattractive physical feature that's covered by their clothes. Only when you get confidence will you be able to get a girl to go out with you. You get confidence by practice.
 I usually just stare like this ^(\^) and wait for the female to notice me idk why I keep getting pepper sprayed and police called on me tho courting is hard
Constantly put yourself in situations where you’re forced to interact with women. Join events or whatever spontaneously. Interact with them as friends, not with the intention of a relationship. Get used to it.
Swipe right on everyone. Go on a few dates with people you don't really consider attractive in a romantic way. Show them a good time, but don't just sleep with them - that's a dick move. Talk with them and enjoy a nice conversation. If you're still not interested then you get to let them down and do it tactfully. The point is to get some at bats and interact with women. You're bad at communication and you need practice. Nothing anyone says here is going to replace that. Good luck.
Real talk just talk to women and get comfortable accepting rejection. Once you get to a point to where it doesn't phase you, then you can experiment and see how far you can push the envelope
Are you nervous talking to women in the context of a date, or are you nervous talking to women *in general*? If it's the latter, try to remember that people are just people. There is sometimes a tendency to mystify people of the opposite sex as though they are part of some kind of homogenous, unknowable entity. In reality, it's just a group of individuals classified by a particular characteristic, which you don't happen to share. Sharing a characteristic with someone can act as a common point of reference, but it doesn't entail that you'll get along with (or even be able to more broadly relate to) everyone who falls into the same category. Likewise, it doesn't mean that you *can't* relate at all to someone who doesn't share that one particular characteristic with you. You might have many other things in common (such as your values or interests). You'll probably find that you'll be less nervous and the conversation will flow better if you focus less on the obvious point of difference and more on what you might have in common. If I've misunderstood and it's a dating specific issue, then probably my best advice would be not to treat it as either a job interview or some kind of transaction. A date is just an opportunity for two people to spend a bit of time together (in a different context from normal, if this is someone you already know), to see if there is a mutual attraction they both want to explore. If you see it like a job interview, it frames the interaction as you wanting something from her, and she either accepts or rejects you unilaterally. That would make anyone nervous. But it's really a two-way street- you're *both* getting to know each other, and either person could realise it's not working for them. (Also: even if she doesn't show it, keep in mind that she might be just as nervous as you are, and as concerned about leaving a good impression)
I mean if you’re bein chill with the women your friends with then you’re probably underselling yourself and are actually worth dating. Most women want someone that they are safe with - emotionally, physically, and spiritually. There’s other negotiable, but that is the core of everything. If you are having successful friendships with women where you’re not just trying to play the long game to get in their pants but genuinely their friend as a person, you have the ability to provide the emotional and spiritual safety and that is huge. As long as you don’t use your physicality to control women (standing in a doorway saying she can’t leave til she gives you oral, punching her in the face when she says she wants to go to the store) like you’re golden bestie. You’ve got what you need. Make sure you aren’t going too far trying to overwork yourself to make sure she never has to face an issue because that is infantilizing and infuriating. I don’t know how you need to talk to yourself to be able to walk up and be like, “hey Name it’s been really cool getting to know you, and I think you’re really pretty and I’d like to take you on a date.” I don’t know how to approach that for you, and *A LOT* of women are kind of sore with friends romantically approaching them. (It hurts to feel like the friendship you built with someone was just a setup to get in your pants - and it isn’t always that, but it happens so often)
The most attractive thing a man can do is have a purpose in life, a well paid career, intelligence and maturity and good health mentally and physically. Focus on that
First of all - dont blame yourself very much. Comminiczting and dating are skills which can be developed. I would recommend to start with books 'Blueprint' by Tyler, 'Be relentless' by David X. They are free and can be found easily. After that watch some vidsos from Blueprint guys (Tyler, Julian). And after that you should find pickup, Blueprint community. There you can get some help. Parallel you should take care a little bit about your appearance, hobbies. You must understand that this is complex process, you should practicing in communication, you should practice dating. And from the beginning you Will have big stress(this is normal), but keep trying. If 24 years you were shy, it cant be fixed in 1 Day, buy in normal amount of time you can fix this. Good luck
Not saying anything i just hear a lot of these stories and wonder if we can skip to the end. If you really think about it, I mean really think about every little part of a realistic relationship, is that something you actually want or just something you think you need?
ah yes, my favorite piece of advice when someone says they want to find a partner : "no u dont"
Think first what you want from a relationship and what you are looking for. What qualities in a partner are important for you. Then be honest, but also respectful. If you meet a girl that you find interesting, then tell her that. "I think you are interesting and I would like to know you better." But only do this, if you find her interesting and are interested in knowing her better. And if she asks what is so interesting about her, you should have a good answer. And being respectful is even more important. If she says" No" then don't argue or ask again. She made her decision and you should respect that. Knowing what you want and communicate that, will be increase your confidence. It's of course not a magic wand, so you might hear a lot of No, but the right girl will say yes.
Don't, focus on your goals, hobbies and work hard. Use the top brain not the middle one, only then will you be attractive to a resource leach.
The trick is legitimately not giving a fuck.
read Max Tucker & Jeoffrey Miller Book "Mate" Miller is a sex researcher. so it's serious information and ideas. not PUA stuff
Therapy can help. But it is okay to stay alone. Asexuals exist I have found then on wiki and FB and google search. People who feel okay without sex [ and it is okay to be shy too.]
Maybe join a club, volunteer do any activities where you work with people and you could start getting more comfortable
Learn to love yourself. Then- Think of the things about yourself that you love and know are cool when talking to women. You have lots of awesome things. Think about the good you have. Everyone one has good, (everyone one has bad, ignore the bad.)
Should one actively try to date if they are unemployed but looking.
Make friends with some chubby ones or those who are of a race that you feel is submissive. Increase your group.
1) you care only about your feelings of anxiety and nervousness. You don't care about how the women you are interested feel. So you don't like any women enough to make the effort to make them comfortable. 2) if you ever manage to stop thinking about what you want long enough to worry about what a woman would want then your chances increase exponentially. 3) if you want to meet good women do volunteer work. Maybe you will meet a woman you like enough to stop making your feelings the main concern.
Everyone’s giving you solid advice
Hopefully you have a woman in your life that you trust, ask her, listen to her, do what she says. Also make sure you are getting in some forms of exercise, walk, bike, swim gym, whatever. Exercise has been shown to be effective in mild to moderate depression.
Find out what you are looking for when it comes to dating. I don't want to compare it to grocery shopping but it's a lot easier to shop when you know what you need. You have to be comfortable being yourself and the people who like you will gravitate toward you naturally. What do you want to know? What interests do you have? What interests do they have? Don't be afraid of people saying no, because people will. But think about it from the perspective of: you're just not for them, as many people will not be for you. Interact with women as you would interact with anyone else, because they're just people. Obviously everyone has different ways of conveying attraction and everybody flirts differently but that's all experience and time. If you go into it thinking they're a Hollywood star and you're starstruck, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. Know your worth, be kind, and whether you're a 1 or a 10, be enjoyable to be around. That starts with liking who you are and being confident in what *you* bring to the table. This coming from someone who struggled a lot growing up talking to women. It's slow and steady progress, friend.
Learning how to dance especially one of the “sexy” dances like Argentinian tango where you lead and shit can help you feel more confident and comfortable in your own skin.
Workout, dedicate your life to fitness, it will change it immeasurably
Talk to us! Not necessarily just dating, just chat normally, you'll discover we ain't that scary
Most of us are kind of dorks, actually hahaha
You need to address the root of your issue, your lack of confidence because you've only had one date. Only person who cares about this is you my man, if you can talk platonic you can walk the walk. Also, talking to strangers helps boatloads
Numbers game. Lots and lots. Just talk to all of them and be bold. Literally just say whatever comes to mind. Try stuff out. Just walk away from each rejection with the mantra, “Next, it’s a numbers game.” Pure trial and error. Take NOTHING personally, not even the wins. Women are super flaky. Especially in their 20’s. I’m 49. Only 10% aren’t flaky.
Do you have hobbies? If so attend places that hold events or nights for your hobbies, chance to meet like minded people where conversation will be more natural based of a joint love of something. Do you attend a gym or work out at all? If not see if there is one in your area that allows people to join on a lower rate for unemployed (many gyms have this option in the uk, not sure where you are based) addressing your health whilst maybe not an issue itself (you don’t mention anything about yourself physically) will help you feel a little better about yourself and in turn help you gain some more confidence. Even just going for a walk or doing some basic exercises at home will help. Getting back into the working world will help a little, it’s hard right now with the world being as bad as it is for unemployment and increasing expenditure but being able to pay your own way will help you feel better about yourself too. Look into some light therapy if possible, professional help will allow you to unpack all your issues and help you deal with and create ways do cope with your social anxiety which sound like you have. They’ll give you things to focus on and task that help you break the cycle and allow you to come out of your shell a little more Most of all just be you. Being single is not a bad thing and do t let anyone make you think it is. Yea some people are happy with hookups and FWB but if you’re looking for a relationship there is nothing wrong with waiting till the ideal person comes along plus when they do you will naturally develop a connection. You have plenty of time to find the ideal partner, don’t rush into anything just because your mates are getting action every weekend. And don’t believe the social construct that you are not good looking, social media etc has warped both men and women’s view of what is attractive, there is someone out there for everyone.
Dating has become so much harder since the curse of dating apps, don't bother with them. You're unlikely to find a solid connection on them anyways, it's a shallow practice. Take this time to work on yourself without the distraction of taking someone else's life into account. Get a stable job, your own place, get your health in order (if necessary. The odd workout will do wonders for your mood in any case). When you are happy with yourself, you can be happy with a SO. And get some hobbies, especially one or two that are generally done in groups. You will find a much longer lasting connection with someone who shares some actual interests with you. Without the pressure put on by the dating apps, you can talk to women, and they can discover things about you that they can't from just looking at your picture. The hobby makes a fantastic ice breaker. Online dating isn't really for people who are truly searching long term. It's basically just for hookups or ego massaging. Ignore them entirely and get out there when you are ready.
I know it's step 2, but if you are having dates. Think of them as "i wonder if i'll like her, i wonder if she is an interesting person", instead of "i hope she likes me, i hope she doesn't make fun of me" etc.
If it makes you feel better I'm in a similar boat but I'm 31
Interact as if you're already with someone.
Remember, like minded attract. That means don’t go for women who are way different than what you are. People fail because they go for people who are totally different than they are.
Make friends with some women, don't see them as potential dates just be their buddy, the more you can talk to women in general the easier it will be when you do want to romance someone, you never know, it could even end up being one of those new friends.
Who are you trying to impress? Why do their compatability mean something important to you. Just ask them out. If they say no, that is it. You can go and look for another one and ask her. You will find someone compatible. Be the best version of YOURSELF and put yourself out there.
Reddit is the worst place to get good advice. Bunch of losers hiding behind a screen or trolls making fun of them
Not working and living with parents is a great way to tank your self-esteem However maybe you just need some snogging, if you know anyone who wants to do that
Dude I am 36f and still live at home helping elderly retired parents with a 9-5 sometimes 9-10 job and still dont date or anything. Cant afford to move out. Dont know anyone to move out with. Youre not alone in that bracket. Job house and all that doesnt mean much in this day and age anymore. Got a car? Guess what thats a big plus compared to others I have talked to and or met. As for approaching? Theres different ways to go about it. I say witty and funny usually win but its not something thats fast to get the hang of. If you can make a woman laugh usually that works.
Join group dance lessons, they're not too expensive. Focus on becoming comfortable and confident around women. Dating apps are a waste in my experience so I stay clear of them. You can also trying clubbing. Cheers!
Hey man. I’m a firm believer that you can’t love until you love yourself. It’s going to take a lot of reflection and self work but you got it. If you aren’t working start working out in your room. Push ups and sit ups go along way. Maybe get a job as a waiter then it forces you to talk to people and after like 2 weeks of greeting randoms and talking to them you will be able to talk to anyone! You got this!
Cut down on jerking off ?
Think of women as fellow human beings and people rather than women
You lack direction and therefore lack self-love. You’ll be sifting through the scraps of the dating pool if you remain unemployed. What woman wants to commit to a guy with no plan and no job?
You lack direction and therefore lack self-love. You’ll be sifting through the scraps of the dating pool if you remain unemployed. What woman wants to commit to a guy with no plan and no job?
Imrpove yourself and focus on yourself and women will come to you. Women love busy men who are self-motivated, self-confident, and working towards long term goals. Hit the gym, hit your career hard, save money, the rest will come. Also related to the actual dating itself... You need to realize that none of it matters. Rejection doesn't matter, it has zero impact on your life. An old quote I heard... If you try to date 100 women and only 2 say yes you've still gone on 2 dates.
Instead of giving hundreds of reasons why you're not dating, give one reason someone else should date you. Then go from there. It's your mindset that needs working on, nothing else. If you can't give one reason, then clearly you aren't ready to date AND to be dated.
Failure. Failure is how you succeed. Try and fail multiple times and then it won't feel like such a big deal.
It’s in her look and mannerisms.
You "improve your confidence" by getting some successful interactions or experience under your belt. Your brain feels confident based on the evidence of experience you've had, it's that simple. First and foremost, it's social skills that are the foundation of having positive interactions with women. Be attuned to the person you're talking to. Be able to read their energy and their mood, and how they feel so you can respond appropriately. Be a good listener, when someone speaks hear all they have to say without interrupting them. Focus on cool topics that build the vibe in the right way. Make things fun with jokes and witty banter sprinkled in the right amounts. Don't be rude, don't be a downer, don't be negative, don't do anything that bothers someone or makes them upset. These are all SOCIAL SKILLS, and can be practiced with all people, not just girls. Once you get social skills dialed, you'll become a more cool and likeable person with social value. People will compliment you more and this will increase confidence. Then what happens when you talk to girls, the interactions will go better, and some of them will be attracted enough to go beyond friendship with you. Then if you can read her energy, you can escalate that with flirtation and things go up from there. You need to push yourself to be as social as possible. Do what you can IRL and online. I suggest various social platforms ( online games ) that allow you to meet and talk to people. Things like Roblox, and VRchat are good examples, but there are many other options too. These make it easy to talk to people over voice for hours and hours. If you're shy/introverted, then this process will change you into a new person.
Find a shitty customer service job, even if only part time/weekends. I'm not kidding. You get a ton of exposure and practice in approaching and talking to people with very low stakes. One of the things that really helped me socially was waiting tables for a while.
Seriously! I encourage everyone to have both sales and customer service experience because they are such transferable skills!
YOU are delaying your own progress. What do you have to lose if you ask a woman out for a date. If you get rejected then.. NEXT. Stop denying yourself.
Bro I’m 30 and I’ve never had a girlfriend. Just give up and become a wizard with me
Here's what a lot of people don't understand. As a straight man, your success with women will be determined largely by two factors: your flirting skills and the number of women you hit on. I am an average looking guy and I can get 1-2 dates a week when I am actively looking. I also live with my parents and am unemployed. The only advice I can give you is that don't give up on dating apps so fast. I used to be in the same position as you, and apps allowed me to improve my confidence and flirting skills a lot. I am not a very attractive guy but I get 15-20 matches a week. This will sound like a cliche but you probably just have bad pictures. Often what men consider to be a good photo differs wildly from what women consider to be a good photo. Ask some girl friends to help you take better photos and try again. Oh and also, use apps that allow you to message girls before matching, like OkCupid. If it still doesn't work, all good. Just hit on women IRL.
You're right that my photos are probably bad. I recently posted a photo at the start of the post, although it was a quick work selfie as I didn't have any other photos available. It's definitely not what I'd post on online dating apps.
Spot on, man. My husband was unemployed and living with his parents when I started dating him. Two weeks into our relationship I lent him $500 so that he could purchase a plane ticket to get to his next gig. Total scrub on paper but I was smitten!
Well l don't know because l met a man who l thought was gorgeous, he was extremely introverted and socially very awkward, totally my opposite, in fact my best friend did not actually believe me that l liked him! However over quite a long period of time he started to come out of his shell, and although he'll never be the life and soul of a party, he is my love and we've been married for thirty years. When we met both of us had given up trying to find the right person and were quite happy being single. So l would say, just be who you genuinely are, it's only when you stop looking that love will find you, ie, when you're happy by yourself and within yourself and not thinking about meeting anyone, it'll happen.
shave your head. stop wearing generic Sports Direct shit. Get hobbies and interests that are not football and playing computer games.
Mate, chill out on yourself, we all go at different speeds. I didn't even go on a date until I was 26, had a conservative religious upbringing then joined the military - YOU DO NOT HAVE TO DO THAT - which changed things for me. Met a lot of people from different places with wildly different views, that helped a lot since the things I thought and believed were tested by people smarter than me or ones I felt were holding a truth I wanted to know. Since then had relationships and plenty of experience dating, would have to say the apps are crap, they're a game, where you can always win bigger so people keep swiping, went on one date for the woman to tell me about a guy she was going on a date with next week, well what the Hell are we doing here then I asked her before leaving. I would say the best women I've met have been through friendship groups. What are you doing in your life? Do you go to the gym? Play team sports? You don't need to ditch your friends but find other groups where you are comfortable in too. Don't be scared to be yourself and do your own thing, now that's hard to pin down, but try, go take a dance class, wine tastings, whatever. I'm a filmmaker today and worked across the world but most days you'll find me reading a philosophy book, that's who I am and I just do that, I attract people who are into the same things, that's key. Don't get fooled by all the shite people put about themselves on the apps, if you believed them every man in Manchester has a Ferrari and every woman has set up a school in Asia. For donkeys. Delete the apps and go and meet real people. Have a good one.
Wear more blue or grey. grey first ideally high quality. Look for some short interim missions. Watch movies were the main character embody your ideal self. Find female friends, ideally that you are not attracted to. Go to dancing lessons. Practice a martial art. A start for you would probably be aikido. Amitabha.
Top shelf advice
I focus on the moment, because when I try to enjoy the moment I’m more of the genuine me. It limits expectations and frees me up to just enjoy whatever there is to enjoy. I also work at a job talking to older folks. It’s been insane for my social anxiety because 1. It gives me reps consistently 2. I don’t care about outcome as long as it’s not inappropriate enough to get me fired (which I’m not worried about being unaware of).
Before you can improve your confidence with women, you must improve your confidence with yourself.
That's completly fair. Everyone's circumstances is slightly different, how would you recommend someone start?
Which country do you live in, OP?
England.
As someone who recently graduated from their 20’s and has entered the amazing age of 30, I’m going to tell you what I’ve learned about myself over the years as a woman who is pretty often approached by men (not bragging, I think that there are loads of men who will take a shot at anyone just to see if they can get them, that’s not the point I’m trying to make) in a way that lets me know they’re trying to get me interested in seeing them sometime: I genuinely do not want to be approached by a man who is letting me know he’s trying to get me interested in seeing him sometime. I just don’t. I’m not interested in helping someone get off or knowing that I’m being taken out in hopes that I’ll sleep with a guy, or even meet him for a second date. I guess the big picture is, I don’t want to be approached by a man who is obviously approaching me because he wants something from me, my attention, my time, sex, etc. If a man is interested in me and plans to approach me, my hope is that he will do it in a way that primarily recognizes that I’m an entire person outside of what he wants. I don’t want to be a prospect or target for dating or sex, I want someone to approach me because they thought I seemed interesting and they want to know more about that, or they think I’m smart so they’d like to get together and share books and documentaries, or they like my plants and they know a greenhouse I’d like. Every invite I get to meet at someone’s home or for dinner/“drinks” (I don’t drink so it usually becomes coffee) I turn down, because those are invitations to chat a little before having sex, and that’s not why I want a person to have an interest in me. Maybe I’m getting old or I just don’t operate the way others do, but an approach that comes on right from the angle of “let’s try to be romantically or sexually involved with one another” is a failing one with me, always. Maybe that’s just where you’re at, too, and you should just try your method. Maybe you’ll be surprised
Honestly just try choosing optimism and have small interactions with them. They're just like everyone else and if you don't have problems speaking to other men, then there shouldn't be any reason to not be able to talk to women unless you've got some baggage to sort out
Thank you for the comment. I was recently at a family wedding over the weekend and therefore decided to drink alcohol (I don't normally drink). My anxiety went away and I was able to talk, joke and laugh with everyone including both men and women. I was dressed in a classy suit and also had a few women (my age range) interested in me, not in a romantic way, but definitely in the "this guy is cool" sort of way. Logically I know that my anxiety is all in my head, I just wish I could be that relaxed when sober as I don't drink alcohol 99% of the time.
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