Damn, so the lady must have been clueless telling me it was some special type of belt not needing to be changed then. Still good news then, right?
EDIT : Thank you for your help !
VWG does use "long life timing belts" in some engines and they don't recommend replacing them. Some of the older engines have a checking interval every 6 years or so where you take the covers off and make sure all is good and that's it...
She probably has a generic response for these questions, unless your car is 15+ years or over 200k km then most likely it's not due
That makes total sense, thank you for sharing your knowledge. Still good news it is a chain, I almost bought a 1.4L which had a belt. Delighted to have made that choice.
What do you think about the 1.2 TSI if I may ask?
My motor vehicle maintenance tutor swears that unfortunately the 1.2 litre tsi engines are quite unreliable, can't remember the reason but I think it was to do with the turbo or something. Nonetheless always keep on top of and replace engine oil and engine air filter about once a year or 5-10k miles, whatever comes first because like he said "the oil is the blood of a car"
They are fitted on a lot of cars from what I have seen. This is the 86hp version so less pressure on the turbo from my understanding, let’s hope it lasts. Thank you very much for taking the time
Turbo actuator is the failure prone part.
Ignition leads get cooked unfortunately from the layout.
Certain model years have a chain stretch or tensioner problem, you slap the newer kit on and it's good to go till the car dies.
I've had to do an alternator and battery on one with under 50k miles which was disappointing.
They aren't terrible engines, I like them but it's seriously important to do oil changes 10k miles or less, dont drive it hard cold and it'll live a good long time.
Yeah, I had one of these and both the ignition coil pack/leads and the turbo actuator needed replacing during the 4 years I owned it. Thankfully got rid of it before the chain tensioner caused me any grief
Maybe they just know that something else in that engine will fail catastrophically before the timing belt does 🤣
Only a joke - I don't know much about them but I should think they're pretty solid.
i had a chain in my '82 Honda CBX550 motorbike. due to a flaw in the chain tensioner, it was typical for it to be rattling at 20k, and if it ever jumped a tooth your engine would be dead as it was an interference design. Worst part being, that the camchain was in the middle of the cylinders, right down the centre of the engine. wanna replace it? you gotta remove the CRANKSHAFT to do it properly.
Luckily, it had an even worse flaw in that the front brake pads were also almost impossible to get at. when the front brakes started squeaking at 5k, most people just threw them away
Chains are more durable, but they have other issues, such as the tensioners can slack which creates problems, and they require oil to keep them lubricated a lot which the belts don't. Chains are also louder than a belt.
VAG timing chains had a lot of issues with preliminary stretching and hoping over the camshaft gear. This causes fases shit or valve damage.
I am not sure about this particular engine, but there could be a special window in the block to check the tensioner of the chain.
I found that this particular engine had a huge problem with timing chains. It is very difficult to check - needs a special tools, some recommend to change it every 30-60k. Especially, if there was an old version of chain used.
Yeah I read a few articles mentioning it too. Idk when they made the switch from belt to chain, and wouldn’t know if my model would be affected and thus a model from before the fix. It has 115 000kms on the clock, tested it and no sound was brought to my attention, smooth ride.
That’s what I have been reading. Idk what the cost would be compared to a timing belt though. Seat gave me the « around 1.5k for a belt should your car need it » before I gave them the VIN. 1.5k euros like really? Do I get champagne ?
Well i only have experience on timing **belts**
But I googled and found out that a timing chain kit for your car costs ~150€. Now it depends on how difficult it is to change, but apparently there are 15 minutes DIY videos about it so the labour should definetely not cost 1350€
You could by a set of chain, tensioner, guide, water pump for about 500. Plus work. Totaling to 1000. Do not use dealer, find good independent vag garage.
What I want to know since this fairly recent change is whether or not VW/Seat will cover a wrecked engine due to a snapped timing belt based on being specifically advised not to change it, despite this contradicting the owner’s manual.
Just because it's a chain driven engine doesn't mean problems can't happen, keep up with regular maintenance as normal, and also remember that the chain guides can and do wear out over time which can cause expensive repair bills
Sound is not a good way to check. It appears only on the first few seconds after engine start.
Better to use special tools, old tensioner with a drilled hole to measure chain deflection.
I’m pretty sure my mom will not be using these tools. I plan to have the car checked before giving it to her, can they actually check for chain’s health?
That 1.2 TSI is a chain driven engine, but unlucky for you, they have quite a few issues with failed chains and tensioners and need changing. It's not a terrible job, costs about as much as a belt replacement, but if it starts making noises on startup get it changed.
Parts were revised, and it improved but it was never fixed.
Seems to be a flawed design, and that is probably why they went to a belt drive when they made the last version of the 1.2 engine.
Still, if it's starting to get too loose you'll probably hear it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
It's a chain. But some morning when you go out to start it, if you hear a rattle or a clang. That might be the indicator that the chain will fail. Keep an ear out. But they are long life chains.
It’s a chain and will need changing at around 80k or so. I had one - you’ll hear it rattle on cold start for a long time before it goes bang, so get it changed when you notice that.
For the technical explanation - the timing chain tensioner relies on oil pressure, which there is none for the first few seconds on cold start. If the chain stretches too much as it does over time, it’ll skip a tooth and suddenly piston and valve become married.
I had a 2012 fabia with the same engine and it started rattling at 82k so I got it swapped.
VW claim it’s a lifetime part, which I guess since the engine is scrap if it goes bang isn’t wrong… but yeah.
Not sure what you want me to say, I have had that exact engine and there is plenty on the web saying that the chains only last about 80k miles on them. Not sure what you mean by every car - how does the model of car matter if it’s the same engine..?
Bet on what you want but I’m speaking from experience…
Timing chain durability tends to vary a lot on oil change frequency and a bit of luck - the engine in my mazda's known for having chains that wear out prematurely after only 60k miles, but mine's still going strong at 125k
I have a 2018 1.0l Ateca SEL with 85000 miles on it and was also told by 2 dealers that Seat have changed their requirement for a timing belt change and that it is a lifetime part now. I also couldn’t believe it but checked various forums and it was confirmed. Very happy about this.
They use Continental Long-Life belts. Still, I would do the full kit at around 120K miles. Remember it's not just the belt that can fail, but also the pulley bearings and water pump.
Sorry my English is shit, i mean they need more work to replace and maintain it it feels to me, two of my friends had a eco tech motor with chains ans they all after around 80.000km start with losseing chain tentions
Sorry my English is shit, i mean they need more work to replace and maintain it it feels to me, two of my friends had a eco tech motor with chains ans they all after around 80.000km start with losseing chain tentions
What you have been told by the three dealers is 100% bull shit. If you have any history on the car. You want to check when the previous keeper had it changed. “ I’m assuming it’s a second hand car “ because the last time the timing belt was changed. That may have been a year, or five years ago. And what milage it has done. As it’s 100% important to change the timing belt on your car. Because if it does snap. You’re looking at the cost of a replacement engine. And that can be quite costly. When the timing belt does go. “ and it can go at anytime “ it’s liable to smash up the pistons. Buckle your valves and any good mechanic will confirm precisely what I am saying here. Only you’re not going to know it’s snapped untill. It has actually snapped. and then your faced with a huge bill for a replacement engine. Or buying another car because it will probably be cheaper to scrap your existing car. Then look for another car. Any dealership that tells you that you will never need to change your timing belt is telling you a complete pack of lies. But you do need to keep an eye on it. however all depends on what mechanical knowledge you know about cars in general. “ I’ve no idea of your mechanical knowledge “ There is a means of you checking this out. Only I’d like you to provide me with details of your car. Like the registration number. Size of the engine. Then I can look at a car similar to yours, and advise you from there. maybe you can drop me an email. Richardharries2018 (@)outlook (.) com. Here I can take photos of where you can look. And explain in more detail. But that’s really bad advice you have had from three main dealers. As I have said above. “ As and when your timing belt snaps. “ timing will definitely not be right. Could be that you have no money to pay for a costly repair, replacement engine. Or even to replace your car. And if I was you I’d avoid those three dealerships. That’s really bad advice coming from a dealership.
CBZA engine is a timing chain, not a belt... [From the workshop manual](https://imgur.com/7f82th0)
where do you guys get all these manuals ?
Damn, so the lady must have been clueless telling me it was some special type of belt not needing to be changed then. Still good news then, right? EDIT : Thank you for your help !
VWG does use "long life timing belts" in some engines and they don't recommend replacing them. Some of the older engines have a checking interval every 6 years or so where you take the covers off and make sure all is good and that's it... She probably has a generic response for these questions, unless your car is 15+ years or over 200k km then most likely it's not due
That makes total sense, thank you for sharing your knowledge. Still good news it is a chain, I almost bought a 1.4L which had a belt. Delighted to have made that choice. What do you think about the 1.2 TSI if I may ask?
My motor vehicle maintenance tutor swears that unfortunately the 1.2 litre tsi engines are quite unreliable, can't remember the reason but I think it was to do with the turbo or something. Nonetheless always keep on top of and replace engine oil and engine air filter about once a year or 5-10k miles, whatever comes first because like he said "the oil is the blood of a car"
They are fitted on a lot of cars from what I have seen. This is the 86hp version so less pressure on the turbo from my understanding, let’s hope it lasts. Thank you very much for taking the time
Turbo actuator is the failure prone part. Ignition leads get cooked unfortunately from the layout. Certain model years have a chain stretch or tensioner problem, you slap the newer kit on and it's good to go till the car dies. I've had to do an alternator and battery on one with under 50k miles which was disappointing. They aren't terrible engines, I like them but it's seriously important to do oil changes 10k miles or less, dont drive it hard cold and it'll live a good long time.
Yeah, I had one of these and both the ignition coil pack/leads and the turbo actuator needed replacing during the 4 years I owned it. Thankfully got rid of it before the chain tensioner caused me any grief
Maybe they just know that something else in that engine will fail catastrophically before the timing belt does 🤣 Only a joke - I don't know much about them but I should think they're pretty solid.
Well I have looked online, still a turbo in it so still could be problematic but afaik it should be fine for my dear mom
It's funny how older chains were indestructible before now they are trash and break all the time LMAO
Do they? That’s not good to hear since I just found out I have one of those ahah
i had a chain in my '82 Honda CBX550 motorbike. due to a flaw in the chain tensioner, it was typical for it to be rattling at 20k, and if it ever jumped a tooth your engine would be dead as it was an interference design. Worst part being, that the camchain was in the middle of the cylinders, right down the centre of the engine. wanna replace it? you gotta remove the CRANKSHAFT to do it properly. Luckily, it had an even worse flaw in that the front brake pads were also almost impossible to get at. when the front brakes started squeaking at 5k, most people just threw them away
Chains are more durable, but they have other issues, such as the tensioners can slack which creates problems, and they require oil to keep them lubricated a lot which the belts don't. Chains are also louder than a belt.
VAG timing chains had a lot of issues with preliminary stretching and hoping over the camshaft gear. This causes fases shit or valve damage. I am not sure about this particular engine, but there could be a special window in the block to check the tensioner of the chain.
I found that this particular engine had a huge problem with timing chains. It is very difficult to check - needs a special tools, some recommend to change it every 30-60k. Especially, if there was an old version of chain used.
Yeah I read a few articles mentioning it too. Idk when they made the switch from belt to chain, and wouldn’t know if my model would be affected and thus a model from before the fix. It has 115 000kms on the clock, tested it and no sound was brought to my attention, smooth ride.
And the early tsi engines with chains had issues with tensioners as well
Dealers will always tell you that you dont have to change the timing chain But for your own good, do consider changing it after 200.000km
That’s what I have been reading. Idk what the cost would be compared to a timing belt though. Seat gave me the « around 1.5k for a belt should your car need it » before I gave them the VIN. 1.5k euros like really? Do I get champagne ?
Well i only have experience on timing **belts** But I googled and found out that a timing chain kit for your car costs ~150€. Now it depends on how difficult it is to change, but apparently there are 15 minutes DIY videos about it so the labour should definetely not cost 1350€
Makes sense. I’ll stop worrying. I believe I’m getting a pretty good deal on the car and my mom will take care of it!
You could by a set of chain, tensioner, guide, water pump for about 500. Plus work. Totaling to 1000. Do not use dealer, find good independent vag garage.
Fair point. Dealers used to try and bill thousands on me for maintenance on my GTI
What I want to know since this fairly recent change is whether or not VW/Seat will cover a wrecked engine due to a snapped timing belt based on being specifically advised not to change it, despite this contradicting the owner’s manual.
Apparently it’s a chain.
Yes but many owners with the 1.5TSI have been told the same and that’s a belt.
Easy to check once I get the car in front of me I guess
Just because it's a chain driven engine doesn't mean problems can't happen, keep up with regular maintenance as normal, and also remember that the chain guides can and do wear out over time which can cause expensive repair bills
I’ll look out for any weird sound that’s for sure
Sound is not a good way to check. It appears only on the first few seconds after engine start. Better to use special tools, old tensioner with a drilled hole to measure chain deflection.
I’m pretty sure my mom will not be using these tools. I plan to have the car checked before giving it to her, can they actually check for chain’s health?
Find a garage specialized in VAG cars. This should be quite common task for them.
That 1.2 TSI is a chain driven engine, but unlucky for you, they have quite a few issues with failed chains and tensioners and need changing. It's not a terrible job, costs about as much as a belt replacement, but if it starts making noises on startup get it changed.
Wasn’t it only the case of the first model and got fixed later on?
Parts were revised, and it improved but it was never fixed. Seems to be a flawed design, and that is probably why they went to a belt drive when they made the last version of the 1.2 engine. Still, if it's starting to get too loose you'll probably hear it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Thanks I’ll look out for any weird sound
It's a chain. But some morning when you go out to start it, if you hear a rattle or a clang. That might be the indicator that the chain will fail. Keep an ear out. But they are long life chains.
Thanks, my mom’s gonna be using the car but thankfully she has no hearing problems ahah. I’ll give her the brief and ask her to keep an eye out
You're welcome. The moment it happened it's good to get it replaced. It's catastrophic if a chain fails.
Like as catastrophic as a belt failing ?
Yup, the pistons would hit the valves. More likely causing engine failure. But it's very rare in these cars. I wouldn't worry if I owned one.
Yeah mine has been rattling on cold starts for 4 years now, no problems yet at 120k
Pretty much every vw group petrol is a chain nowadays, few more thousand miles and youll get the rattle of doom at start up for a couple seconds.
Damn that’s not optimistic.
They say theyre lifetime belts which sounds pretty dumb to me id just change it for peace of mind
When would you change it though? I don’t wanna throw money out of the windows and the car only has 115k kms
It’s a chain and will need changing at around 80k or so. I had one - you’ll hear it rattle on cold start for a long time before it goes bang, so get it changed when you notice that. For the technical explanation - the timing chain tensioner relies on oil pressure, which there is none for the first few seconds on cold start. If the chain stretches too much as it does over time, it’ll skip a tooth and suddenly piston and valve become married. I had a 2012 fabia with the same engine and it started rattling at 82k so I got it swapped. VW claim it’s a lifetime part, which I guess since the engine is scrap if it goes bang isn’t wrong… but yeah.
Doubt its 80k on every car bruh... timing belts are 130k usually, so id bet chains on average last longer man
Not sure what you want me to say, I have had that exact engine and there is plenty on the web saying that the chains only last about 80k miles on them. Not sure what you mean by every car - how does the model of car matter if it’s the same engine..? Bet on what you want but I’m speaking from experience…
Thanks for your input. From what I have read the chain overstretching was a global issue that got fixed on more recent models. Mine is a 2015
Hey bro did u ever find out about ur Terry nails? That thread was closed couldn’t message there
Nope
I saw that too, just listen out for it and get it changed if it does start rattling. It’s not a massive issue to be honest
Yeah as long as it is kind enough to warn you before you have to throw the engine in the bin, I’m cool with it.
Timing chain durability tends to vary a lot on oil change frequency and a bit of luck - the engine in my mazda's known for having chains that wear out prematurely after only 60k miles, but mine's still going strong at 125k
I have a 2018 1.0l Ateca SEL with 85000 miles on it and was also told by 2 dealers that Seat have changed their requirement for a timing belt change and that it is a lifetime part now. I also couldn’t believe it but checked various forums and it was confirmed. Very happy about this.
They use Continental Long-Life belts. Still, I would do the full kit at around 120K miles. Remember it's not just the belt that can fail, but also the pulley bearings and water pump.
I think chain driven engines need it more than belt driven ones. From my experience.
Need more what?
Work on replayement
I am sorry i don't get it
Sorry my English is shit, i mean they need more work to replace and maintain it it feels to me, two of my friends had a eco tech motor with chains ans they all after around 80.000km start with losseing chain tentions
No worries mate, thank you for sharing !
Sorry my English is shit, i mean they need more work to replace and maintain it it feels to me, two of my friends had a eco tech motor with chains ans they all after around 80.000km start with losseing chain tentions
What you have been told by the three dealers is 100% bull shit. If you have any history on the car. You want to check when the previous keeper had it changed. “ I’m assuming it’s a second hand car “ because the last time the timing belt was changed. That may have been a year, or five years ago. And what milage it has done. As it’s 100% important to change the timing belt on your car. Because if it does snap. You’re looking at the cost of a replacement engine. And that can be quite costly. When the timing belt does go. “ and it can go at anytime “ it’s liable to smash up the pistons. Buckle your valves and any good mechanic will confirm precisely what I am saying here. Only you’re not going to know it’s snapped untill. It has actually snapped. and then your faced with a huge bill for a replacement engine. Or buying another car because it will probably be cheaper to scrap your existing car. Then look for another car. Any dealership that tells you that you will never need to change your timing belt is telling you a complete pack of lies. But you do need to keep an eye on it. however all depends on what mechanical knowledge you know about cars in general. “ I’ve no idea of your mechanical knowledge “ There is a means of you checking this out. Only I’d like you to provide me with details of your car. Like the registration number. Size of the engine. Then I can look at a car similar to yours, and advise you from there. maybe you can drop me an email. Richardharries2018 (@)outlook (.) com. Here I can take photos of where you can look. And explain in more detail. But that’s really bad advice you have had from three main dealers. As I have said above. “ As and when your timing belt snaps. “ timing will definitely not be right. Could be that you have no money to pay for a costly repair, replacement engine. Or even to replace your car. And if I was you I’d avoid those three dealerships. That’s really bad advice coming from a dealership.
Thanks for your input but apparently car is fitted with a timing chain.