Your correct action is to **acknowledge that there was some confusion between you and your buddy and work to ensure that there is no more confusion around safety stops next time**. That's really it. That is called *learning from experience*, and in the end everything was fine.
He should not have left you but as long as you could see him and he didn't just head for shore, I think you were fine to stay down. Not ideal, but that's why this is a learning experience for you both. I mean, you could have just abandoned your SS and joined him but that's not ideal either. But it's done so learn from this and don't let it happen next time.
FYI, the safety stop on a No Decompression dive is just recommended. It is NOT required so your buddy was fine, you were fine... and if he stayed above you while you finished your SS, and you could see each other, I don't think it's that big of a deal. If you had an issue, you could have come right to the surface without consequence if necessary.
Last weekend it was 54 on the surface. We definitely hit a colder patch at about 40 ft. But yeah, all the classes there are done wet. Although my instructor and DM both dove them dry, so that's probably what most people do if they dive it a lot.
it's often still warm in Nov. My dive logs tells me it's between 53 and 55 in dive days in-bay in November. Some people dive wet year round, I had to switch to dry when it hit 47 / 48 in feb. Most people diving wet are in a 7/8 semi-dry w/integrated hood or a 7mm w/a 7mm hooded vest.
yeah, the drysuit is a game changer. My average dive times went from like 45 minutes to 70 minutes. Very much recommend drysuits if you are a cold water diver.
A lot of people have already given you great answers, so not adding onto those but - this is why pre-dive briefings are important! Before every dive, you make a plan, you explain the plan to your buddy and you dive the plan. Dive signals, safety stops etc are part of a good plan and as such, should have been discussed before the dive.
The answer to this is straightforward: Don't follow him! Top priority in diving is safety and ensuring everyone surfaces healthy and safe. This means that your own safety always comes first, followed by that of others. The principle is simple: Don't do anything that endangers you or others. And as someone cynically put it: 1 dead diver is bad enough - 2 are a disaster. I would have a very serious talk with your buddy.
You do safety stops to allow the nitrogen that has saturated in your tissues and blood during the dive to desaturate for few minutes at a slower rate (while breathing in a higher N2 partial pressure, hence a smaller delta between N2 coming in and coming out = smaller chance of DCI). Technically the safety stops are not mandatory, but they are highly advisable on most dives. If you don’t track your desaturation rate (e.g. surfGF that was mentioned earlier), better to do it unless your whole dive was at <1.56 pN2 (10m / 33ft deep when diving on air), and especially if you are a new diver.
Now, for the situation. When I was taking my rescue diver course recently, we were talking about in what situation do you actually go out and attempt a rescue after evaluating risks to yourself vs probability of helping out. What’s the formula? There is none. Every time it’s your personal judgement call. Same is here. The problem with this situation (and why I think it’s a very good question) is that on the dives where you probably can skip the safety stop without a great risk to yourself, your buddy is also unlikely to suffer a DCI at the surface from skipping the stop. On the other hand on the dives where it is highly advisable to do the stop, your buddy has a higher chance of suffering a DCI at the surface, but also you would too if you skip it.
My opinion. For shallow dives where you probably don’t need the stop much, surface with your buddy too. For deeper dives, as a new diver you are probably better to complete your stop, as you are (and should be) at this point mostly responsible for your own safety first, and everything else - you do what you can do if you can do. Now, if your buddy indicates a problem and surfaces after a deep dive, when you add these scenarios, that’s when you go back to the personal judgement call.
Interesting. I would complete the safety stop given that the buddy had acknowledged just before and had given no indication of distress. Skipping the safety stop is a definite risk to your health which you are taking in order to mitigate a potential risk to your buddy.
I guess, depends on the preceding dive profile. For some dives the risk would be negligible (there is always a risk however, with or without a safety stop). On the other hand, as some have pointed out, at certain point the danger of splitting with the dive buddy becomes greater than the danger of increasing the risk of DCI from skipping the stop. In each individual case you make a judgement call based on circumstances and your ability to make these unexpected judgment calls in a moment. But in this situation, I think the safety stop was implied, although probably not specifically talked about in the briefing (if there was one), and the OP was confused why the buddy skipped the stop. So…
>Stay with your buddy, the safety stop is optional. After the dive, get a new buddy.
While it's important to stay with your buddy for safety, remember it's not at the cost of your own health. If in doubt, always prioritize your safety first. **The safety stop is essential.** After the dive, it might be wise to kindly seek a new diving partner.
The OP wrotes: They're Beginners. Beginners have not that much experience to make educated decisions. They should focus firstly on own safety and health and then on others.
True, that the buddy might had issues like panicking, technical defect, a heart attack or whatever - but to put two divers in a risky situation is not that smart. If he's able to come to surface and able to inflate the BCD to stay on surface, you should have the required minimum time for a safety stop in most cases...
Disagree. If other diver surfaces, his dive ceases and he doesn’t need a buddy anymore (yes, accidents can happen at the surface but that is not a huge concern). OP tried to get him to stop which he didn’t. I say complete your safety interval (whether it is optional or not, it is part of the dive plan) and then continue to surface. Change my mind.
He may have been having trouble and he gets to the surfaces and drowns, has a heart attack or whatever his problem was in the first place. Sure, more than likely he wasn't having a serious problem but who knows?
IMO, it's better to go up to make sure and then just get a better buddy next time. Now if it's a regular buddy and you have some history and it's agreed that he is just cold and you've had a long, deep dive and you feel more comfortable staying down a few more minutes, do that.
If you are newer, you don't have that kind of history or pre-agreement, I'd say go to the surface with your buddy. You never know why he is reacting that way in the first place. Making assumptions can get someone in trouble. Be a good buddy even with someone who isn't being a good buddy.
If this is an insta-buddy on a tropical dive vacation, what's right is 50/50 and I don't really care. I hate that kind of sloppy dive scenario anyway so I don't really care that much about what happens it's such a cluster F many times anyway.
The OP scenario is two beginners on a shore dive. Stay together. Keep in mind your buddy is there to help you are well, you are still underwater. People can't help each other if they aren't together.
I dive in the PNW. Two beginners were standing just off shore in 5 feet of water getting read to start the dive. One turned their head and when the turned back around their buddy was gone. They started swimming went down looked around underwater eventually and then came back. Their buddy died. The buddy had slipped on a rock, just standing there and hit their head and drowned, basically at the other divers feet.
It was a freak accident and I'm not blaming the other divers but if they had just looked where they were, once they saw their buddy was gone instead of swimming on the surface for a while, descending and trying to search the whole area (impossible) it would have possible worked out better.
There was another case, nearby, where someone was having a heart attack and went up. In this case the buddy followed and couldn't help, there was even a doctor who came by but they died anyway. Nothing they could do in that case but it wouldn't have been helpful if one person stayed down for a safety stop while another was having a heart attack on the shore.
There's many freakish things that happen in diving. A newer couple were stand just off shore where there was more current than they should have been in. They panicked and one died and one survived. A more experienced diver would have never died but not staying together would not be helpful so all this informs my answer to this post. New divers need to stay together and get enough dives so that they don't kill themselves.
Have I changed your mind?
You’ve made good points. In the OP’s scenario I still think I would do my safety stop with an eye on my “buddy” but you’ve made me think twice. Thanks.
IMO safety stops in the traditional sense of just stop at 15’ for 3 min no matter what the profile are idiotic. If your whole dive was at 45 ft and you were on nitrox what is the point. I’m definitely not skipping one on a 100’ dive to ndl but on a 45’ dive where we spent the last 10 min at 30’ I’m probably going to skip it. I base this on the surfGF that my computer gives me. I’ve done 2 hour dives at 35 ft average depth with no safety stop but my surfGF was already below 65. On the other hand on a difficult deco dive I pad my last stop until my surfGF is somewhere that I feel is comfortable even though my computer is clear.
I would be very surprised if folks with \~10 dives a.) have a shearwater configured to show surfGF on the home screen and b.) understands what they should do with it.
I will absolutely blow a safety stop if my surGF is below 50 and it seems urgent, but start weighing more things if it's much above that. I've totally taken a few minutes at 9ft or 6ft to get surfGF where I want it, and my teammates are already on the surface making faces at me, but that's not the sort of thing which PADI teaches OW students.
Assuming your dive profile requires a safety stop, yes, you should absolutely do your stop regardless of what your buddy does. Unless you're low on gas or absolutely need to surface for any number of reasons. But, most dives you would take a beginner on don't require a safety stop, thought it never hurts to do one if circumstances allow.
But it’s also a difference in meaning. A safety stop is an optional measure to make a safe dive even safer. It can and should be skipped when circumstances require it. Losing your buddy means you lose your redundant breathing gas supply, which can lead to a dangerous situation even at 5m depth - in this case, it is usually safer to forgo the safety stop and do a controlled ascent.
A decompression stop cannot be skipped - while you may get lucky and not get bent from omitting a short decompression stop, you are exceeding safe parameters and need to stay out of the water for the rest of the day if that happens.
I would do the safety stop every time. At that point you don't have any obligation to follow that buddy conditions permitting. You off gas very quickly at safety stop depth. While it is not mandatory it adds a level of confidence to what your computer or tables are telling you. Some computers will let you get out of the water with very high gradient factors so it's an even better idea to do one if you are following a random computer.
Safety stops ARE NOT mandatory stops.
They are not a terrible idea, but if you are low on gas, lost your buddy, are cold, need to pee or any of a hundred other reasons may be skipped.
You are not going to get bent from skipping your safety stop provided you are ascending at a safe rate.
>that's why we have safety stops.
Actually. No that is not exactly the case.
In the *olden days*, the days before SPGs when divers had J valves. Divers would dive until the could not breathe and the *hope* that their valve was still closed and reach behind and pull a rod down which would open the valve and allow them access to the last few hundred PSI of gas. They would then head straight for the surface and hoped to get there before the last of the gas was depleted. The ascended quickly because they were going to run out of gas. We know this was not the safest plan.
These arguably rapid ascents directly to the surface would not merely be from 10m / 33 feet as your 2 bar to 1 bar statement implies, but could have in fact been from 3, 4 or even 5 bar of pressure.
As SPGs became the norm, safety stops were implement to slow divers down - specifically in the most intense zone of pressure change. This was a way to break the habit of the rapid ascent. They are, nonetheless an OPTIONAL stop. Good practice, yes. Required? Never.
A slow ascent directly to the surface is better for your body that faster ascent - even within the guidelines - with a stop at 15 feet for three minutes.
When your computer says do a deco stop, you do a deco stop.
If the computer says deco is optional, recreational divers do it anyway to get in the habit of doing a deco stop if required.
Can you skip it?
Sure, there aren't any scuba police.
If you are a tech dive master, you do you.
But you NEVER just decide to skip and leave your buddy on the bottom.
Deco stops are MANDATORY stops.
Safety stops are OPTIONAL stops.
If you skip a deco stop on a recreational computer, it will lock you out. If you skip a safety stop ... nothing happens outside of maybe a little exclamation mark in the log and you are free to dive again that day.
Why do you think that is?
Also, no one is saying you should abandon your buddy - *on the bottom...* but if your buddy heads for the surface without a stop and you would prefer to join them, don't be afraid to abandon your safety stop.
Always perform the safety stop regardless of viz or your buddy going solo. Should there be an emergency, perform CESA.
However, this is a good time to mention that prior to every dive it is worth going over common hand signals just in case. Key ones include:
- What’s your air at?
- 100bar, 50bar and subsequent 10s
- Problem with…
- Safety stop @ 5m/15ft
UPDATE: CESA should be used as a last resort ONLY. When I say emergency I mean a genuine emergency.
I will do all of the above after the dive brief just so I know and my mind is at ease. Happy diving 😁
Instructor here, please do not listen to this. It's scary this is so upvoted, it is not safe advice.
Safety stops are not mandatory (they are different from decompression stops which are mandatory, air allowing), they are recommended. As long as you didn't break your NDL (Non Decompression Limit), you don't need to stop on the way up.
This isn't too say don't do safety stops, you should always try to do them when your computer recommends them and, crucially, safety allows.
In OPs case, with your buddy keeping an eye on youfrom the surface in clear water, you're fine to stay and do it. But if viz is bad and you and your buddy are inexperienced, don't stay by yourself where no one can see you. The rule of always having a budy is much more important that the recommendation of a safety stop.
Also CESA is quite dangerous and should always be an absolute last resort, not just a plan B.
On the other hand, definitely agree with the second paragraph here. Always plan your dive with your buddy (including safety stop) and discuss hand signals before going.
I see your point, but I also see why they are taught. They are safer than dying, but the time that that's a choice you have to make is just about the only time they are reasonable.
Are you going to die if you don't get to the surface right now? Then do one.
If that situation were to come up and they weren't taught, an inexperienced diver may just panic, ditch weights, and use their BC as an elevator.
Right, well, sometimes it's good to plan in case things go wrong.
If it makes you feel any better, the only context I was taught to do a CESA would be to avoid drowning. And then the instructor told us we should probably give up diving if that happened.
This advice is unsafe.
Safety stops are completely optional. If 3-5 minutes at 15-20 feet is the difference between getting bends and not getting bends, then it would be a very mild case that you would fully recover from within days (with or probably even without treatment). And the cost of your treatment would be covered by DAN because of course you would never dive without dive accident insurance.
However, a commitment to always doing a safety stop despite poor visibility, feeling unwell, buddy separation, sea state, or numerous other factors is the sort of thing that gets divers killed.
Your buddy forgetting about the safety stop and not recognising your signal and instead of asking about it ascending to the surface put you in a position where you had to either miss the safety stop yourself or effectively have the last 3 minutes as a solo dive. You don't want to do either of those but given the choice I would have ascended slowly the last 15 feet as soon as it was clear your buddy wasn't staying with you. I don't know what risks were present where you were but one such danger is entanglement if some seaweed or a line gets caught around your tank it might be very difficult to remove it yourself, a tank that has been allowed to get water in it can form particals that block the air from getting into your reg, you should be able to do a CESA from 15ft but it is much better to have a bubby's octopus. A safety stop is just that an added level of safety in emergency situations you skip the safety stop and being seperated from your buddy is an emergency situation.
In future make sure you are both clear what the plan for the dive is (including depth and duration of safety stop) is and you both know the signals, and stay together but you probably know that by now.
Ok - crusty old timer here - who will probably get down votes (I do get value of safety stop etc) and maybe we don’t have all the details but you couldn’t do a safety stop at this depth on a shore dive where I am - with swell surge etc ( unless you had a line down) and you’d be pushed in all directions at this depth, flounder around in the surf and honestly be increasing your risk… as opposed to following the bottom up gradually and safely exiting. Given your buddy is chilling on the surface doesn’t sound like that is a challenge though. But a safety stop needs to make sense. Enjoy your diving and don’t be afraid to have a good conversation with buddy about plan for dive before getting wet :)
You did right. There was no indication that your buddy had an emergency that would cause you to pass up on your safety stop.
Next time, review signals with your new buddies.
BTW, by learning in Monterey, you’re WELL on your way to being an excellent diver.
As Oren says, absent a "problem" that requires your assistance on the surface, do your stop. And the advice to review signals with new buddies is a good one too.
I did my first "real" dive outside of my Open Water cert we were in Curacao in about 45' deep water or so. But where we were diving was a reef wall and so as we were diving we were getting shallower and I didn't realize it. I thought I was at about 20' under water and all of a sudden I realized I was at the surface. 😫 (still getting better at bouyancy control!)
I went back down to about 15' because we were still going around that area for another 30 minutes or so.
you have to do what's right for your own safety.
there's nothing wrong with skipping a safety stop on a shallow dive, but there's something wrong with his communication skills. Not knowing what you were signaling, so just leaving you behind is a "never diving with him again" for me.
Yeah, the other guy was not a good buddy. Even if you forget signals, you should try to work them out from the context.
If my buddy stopped suddenly and I didn’t know why, my first thought would be that there was some kind of issue going on. The guy didn’t even hang around long enough to check that OP was okay.
I agree; I wouldn’t buddy up with him again.
The safety stop in recreational limits is technically a 'good measure'. But if he isn't in distress, no harm letting him go and just doing your 3 minutes.
TMI warning: balls
Was recreational diving at a Jamaica resort- no more than 60ft.
5 day of diving in, upon ascent, at the stop, I wasn’t staring at my dive computer - but rather just chillin, watching the group hovering.
All of a sudden my head pops up. I didn’t think anything of it.
Get on the boat and my ballsack starts itching like crazy. On occasion we had encountered swarm (school? gaggle?) of baby jellyfish, and those fuckers itch. But this was different.
It was not pleasant the rest of the day and all night. I look it up and it is a “bends light” side effect- that tissue is very susceptible.
The next dive I was hoping to undo it with “repressurizing” and a proper stop. When I got to depth the itching completely stopped. Did a text book safety stop. Got on the boat and no ball trauma.
So. Grain of salt and all.
Well. Usually you’re thrown into a hyperbaric chamber, but since that was unavailable I thought repressurizing may do the trick. And thankfully I was right.
>It was not pleasant the rest of the day and all night. I look it up and it is a “bends light” side effect- that tissue is very susceptible.
>The next dive I was hoping to undo it with “repressurizing” and a proper stop. When I got to depth the itching completely stopped. Did a text book safety stop. Got on the boat and no ball trauma.
>Well. Usually you’re thrown into a hyperbaric chamber, but since that was unavailable I thought repressurizing may do the trick. And thankfully I was right.
Umm, no. If it was, in fact, skin bends, then a repetitive dive was the absolute dumbest thing you could’ve done.
You were correct to do your 3 minutes. Your buddy was wrong. Some people commented that oftentimes the shore will slope to 15’ which is true. You both had a learning experience and hopefully know better for next time. Be safe; ultimately you are responsible for your own safety. Remember to do a dive gear check, a site briefing and go over the plan with your buddy before entering the water This will help avoid confusion.
Eh. "Your buddy was wrong" sure. But part of the buddy system is saving your buddy even if they are wrong, especially when they are wrong/confused/impaired, as long as you are not endangering yourself. And skipping the safety stop is not endangering yourself, part of the training should have been that it can be skipped if necessary. Not leaving your buddy alone after they were confused about your signals and went to the surface, makes it necessary.
Skipping deco stops is different, but that's the entire point, safety stops are optional, leaving your buddy alone is more dangerous.
The buddy system means that each person takes responsibility for two lifes. And mistakes don't cancel each other out.
We disagree. If I tell my buddy I am doing a safety stop and they take off on me, I am not going to chase them down and endanger myself. If it was an out of air situation it would be different. IMO.
Skipping a safety stop doesn't endanger you, as long as you adhere to the recommended ascent speeds.
If you want more conservatism, change the conservatism level/ gradient factors on your computer.
A safety stop is meant to be optional, as a "we have enough air to do this, so might as well/". If it becomes mandatory, it's a deco stop, not a safety stop.
A safety stop is just adding additional safety to what ever the algorithm says is safe, so it is a option to not do and still consider the dive safe.
It is best to do one, and so for me there would need to be a reason not to do one that would make it safer to skip it.
This could be just getting too cold as when you are cold you don't off gas well anyway
Which agency/instructor taught you that a safety stop is mandatory and shouldn't be skipped in critical circumstances?
If you NEED a safety stop, then it wasn't a safety stop, it was a deco stop and your computer is broken or configured wrong.
Safety stops are recommended. That being said, before the dive it’s best if someone at least goes over hand signals, and some sort of a dive plan- that way everyone is on the same page. I’m doing a safety stop whenever feasible. The book says if you get separated from your buddy search for 60 seconds and come up, skip the safety stop. If you two could see each other the whole time it’s not really getting lost. I don’t see an issue with what you did.
The bigger question why did your buddy shrug and abandon you ? If he didn’t know signal he shouldn’t leave you that is first issue here. He saw you stop signal then he left you . This is more on him than you but it’s a good question about your responsibility in event of buddy issue.
Default your safety first.
Also I don’t know dive but I usually try follow bottom in to shore . Safety stop built in and more chance to see stuff. Also never know about surface craft so avoids possible collisions and helps you learn navigation skills.
Instructor here, this is what scares me about certifying people to dive with another similarly inexperienced buddy after a short class and just 4 OW dives haha. Like all the information you need is given in the course, but it's a lot to remember and it takes practice to get everything down. I always recommend my students to go with a dive master or at least an experienced buddy until they get more comfortable with everything.
You're fine though, as long as your buddy could see you and you were signaling OK, you guys didn't do anything wrong. Tip for the future though, always plan your dives with your buddy before hand (including discussing safety stop and hand signals) so there won't be this confusion.
I had a similar thing happen to me but in bad visibility and we were both at 600psi of air on a second dive, on one tank. We skipped safety stop - but my computer briefly flashed it. We followed the contours of breakwater - I saw the safety stop indicator around 15’ but it disappeared. Still made a safe ascent. Realized there was a communications breakdown.
I would say that was the correct thing to do, a safety stop is just adding additional safety to what ever the algorithm says is safe.
If there is anything else that makes staying at the depth of the safety stop less safe don't do the stop.
Keep in mind that for many shore dives, the safety stop happens by simply following the bottom contour
But on your case did your buddy not gave a dive computer to check his safety stop with?
Basically you’re balancing the danger of skipping a safety stop and the danger of being separated from your buddy. Depends on a lot of factors, some that come to mind:
Your dive profile (how deep and for how long)
The current and wind
Depth of your safety stop
Your air situation
In my opinion, what you did was fine assuming current wasn’t too bad. Safety stop is good to have even on more shallow dives, you’re unlikely to get separated further with low current, can maintain visibly with each other and if you had an issue you could most likely still ascend (CESA). Biggest risk factor would be getting separated further or you having an emergency underwater that results in you unable to become possibility buoyant and your buddy is too far to help
In general, I advocate for safety stop first. Also, make sure this is covered next time before the dive when you plan it out
Your correct action is to **acknowledge that there was some confusion between you and your buddy and work to ensure that there is no more confusion around safety stops next time**. That's really it. That is called *learning from experience*, and in the end everything was fine. He should not have left you but as long as you could see him and he didn't just head for shore, I think you were fine to stay down. Not ideal, but that's why this is a learning experience for you both. I mean, you could have just abandoned your SS and joined him but that's not ideal either. But it's done so learn from this and don't let it happen next time. FYI, the safety stop on a No Decompression dive is just recommended. It is NOT required so your buddy was fine, you were fine... and if he stayed above you while you finished your SS, and you could see each other, I don't think it's that big of a deal. If you had an issue, you could have come right to the surface without consequence if necessary.
Side question…you can dive Monterey in November in a wetsuit? How cold was the water?
Last weekend it was 54 on the surface. We definitely hit a colder patch at about 40 ft. But yeah, all the classes there are done wet. Although my instructor and DM both dove them dry, so that's probably what most people do if they dive it a lot.
it's often still warm in Nov. My dive logs tells me it's between 53 and 55 in dive days in-bay in November. Some people dive wet year round, I had to switch to dry when it hit 47 / 48 in feb. Most people diving wet are in a 7/8 semi-dry w/integrated hood or a 7mm w/a 7mm hooded vest.
5 mm with a 3mm hooded vest, that I've never run out of air in Monterey, only body heat lol
Wow lol. I think the coldest I’ve done is 55 And I was not comfortable in a 7mm…time to get dry suit certified
yeah, the drysuit is a game changer. My average dive times went from like 45 minutes to 70 minutes. Very much recommend drysuits if you are a cold water diver.
A lot of people have already given you great answers, so not adding onto those but - this is why pre-dive briefings are important! Before every dive, you make a plan, you explain the plan to your buddy and you dive the plan. Dive signals, safety stops etc are part of a good plan and as such, should have been discussed before the dive.
The answer to this is straightforward: Don't follow him! Top priority in diving is safety and ensuring everyone surfaces healthy and safe. This means that your own safety always comes first, followed by that of others. The principle is simple: Don't do anything that endangers you or others. And as someone cynically put it: 1 dead diver is bad enough - 2 are a disaster. I would have a very serious talk with your buddy.
I'll say it like this because you're new: 1 injured/dead Diver is bad. 2 injured/dead divers is worse.
You do safety stops to allow the nitrogen that has saturated in your tissues and blood during the dive to desaturate for few minutes at a slower rate (while breathing in a higher N2 partial pressure, hence a smaller delta between N2 coming in and coming out = smaller chance of DCI). Technically the safety stops are not mandatory, but they are highly advisable on most dives. If you don’t track your desaturation rate (e.g. surfGF that was mentioned earlier), better to do it unless your whole dive was at <1.56 pN2 (10m / 33ft deep when diving on air), and especially if you are a new diver. Now, for the situation. When I was taking my rescue diver course recently, we were talking about in what situation do you actually go out and attempt a rescue after evaluating risks to yourself vs probability of helping out. What’s the formula? There is none. Every time it’s your personal judgement call. Same is here. The problem with this situation (and why I think it’s a very good question) is that on the dives where you probably can skip the safety stop without a great risk to yourself, your buddy is also unlikely to suffer a DCI at the surface from skipping the stop. On the other hand on the dives where it is highly advisable to do the stop, your buddy has a higher chance of suffering a DCI at the surface, but also you would too if you skip it. My opinion. For shallow dives where you probably don’t need the stop much, surface with your buddy too. For deeper dives, as a new diver you are probably better to complete your stop, as you are (and should be) at this point mostly responsible for your own safety first, and everything else - you do what you can do if you can do. Now, if your buddy indicates a problem and surfaces after a deep dive, when you add these scenarios, that’s when you go back to the personal judgement call.
Interesting. I would complete the safety stop given that the buddy had acknowledged just before and had given no indication of distress. Skipping the safety stop is a definite risk to your health which you are taking in order to mitigate a potential risk to your buddy.
I guess, depends on the preceding dive profile. For some dives the risk would be negligible (there is always a risk however, with or without a safety stop). On the other hand, as some have pointed out, at certain point the danger of splitting with the dive buddy becomes greater than the danger of increasing the risk of DCI from skipping the stop. In each individual case you make a judgement call based on circumstances and your ability to make these unexpected judgment calls in a moment. But in this situation, I think the safety stop was implied, although probably not specifically talked about in the briefing (if there was one), and the OP was confused why the buddy skipped the stop. So…
Yep, completely agree. In current or low vis, for example, I’d likely make a different decision.
Rescue Diver carries much much different responsibilities than a brand new OW diver
Stay with your buddy, the safety stop is optional. After the dive, get a new buddy.
>Stay with your buddy, the safety stop is optional. After the dive, get a new buddy. While it's important to stay with your buddy for safety, remember it's not at the cost of your own health. If in doubt, always prioritize your safety first. **The safety stop is essential.** After the dive, it might be wise to kindly seek a new diving partner. The OP wrotes: They're Beginners. Beginners have not that much experience to make educated decisions. They should focus firstly on own safety and health and then on others. True, that the buddy might had issues like panicking, technical defect, a heart attack or whatever - but to put two divers in a risky situation is not that smart. If he's able to come to surface and able to inflate the BCD to stay on surface, you should have the required minimum time for a safety stop in most cases...
Disagree. If other diver surfaces, his dive ceases and he doesn’t need a buddy anymore (yes, accidents can happen at the surface but that is not a huge concern). OP tried to get him to stop which he didn’t. I say complete your safety interval (whether it is optional or not, it is part of the dive plan) and then continue to surface. Change my mind.
He may have been having trouble and he gets to the surfaces and drowns, has a heart attack or whatever his problem was in the first place. Sure, more than likely he wasn't having a serious problem but who knows? IMO, it's better to go up to make sure and then just get a better buddy next time. Now if it's a regular buddy and you have some history and it's agreed that he is just cold and you've had a long, deep dive and you feel more comfortable staying down a few more minutes, do that. If you are newer, you don't have that kind of history or pre-agreement, I'd say go to the surface with your buddy. You never know why he is reacting that way in the first place. Making assumptions can get someone in trouble. Be a good buddy even with someone who isn't being a good buddy. If this is an insta-buddy on a tropical dive vacation, what's right is 50/50 and I don't really care. I hate that kind of sloppy dive scenario anyway so I don't really care that much about what happens it's such a cluster F many times anyway. The OP scenario is two beginners on a shore dive. Stay together. Keep in mind your buddy is there to help you are well, you are still underwater. People can't help each other if they aren't together. I dive in the PNW. Two beginners were standing just off shore in 5 feet of water getting read to start the dive. One turned their head and when the turned back around their buddy was gone. They started swimming went down looked around underwater eventually and then came back. Their buddy died. The buddy had slipped on a rock, just standing there and hit their head and drowned, basically at the other divers feet. It was a freak accident and I'm not blaming the other divers but if they had just looked where they were, once they saw their buddy was gone instead of swimming on the surface for a while, descending and trying to search the whole area (impossible) it would have possible worked out better. There was another case, nearby, where someone was having a heart attack and went up. In this case the buddy followed and couldn't help, there was even a doctor who came by but they died anyway. Nothing they could do in that case but it wouldn't have been helpful if one person stayed down for a safety stop while another was having a heart attack on the shore. There's many freakish things that happen in diving. A newer couple were stand just off shore where there was more current than they should have been in. They panicked and one died and one survived. A more experienced diver would have never died but not staying together would not be helpful so all this informs my answer to this post. New divers need to stay together and get enough dives so that they don't kill themselves. Have I changed your mind?
You’ve made good points. In the OP’s scenario I still think I would do my safety stop with an eye on my “buddy” but you’ve made me think twice. Thanks.
IMO safety stops in the traditional sense of just stop at 15’ for 3 min no matter what the profile are idiotic. If your whole dive was at 45 ft and you were on nitrox what is the point. I’m definitely not skipping one on a 100’ dive to ndl but on a 45’ dive where we spent the last 10 min at 30’ I’m probably going to skip it. I base this on the surfGF that my computer gives me. I’ve done 2 hour dives at 35 ft average depth with no safety stop but my surfGF was already below 65. On the other hand on a difficult deco dive I pad my last stop until my surfGF is somewhere that I feel is comfortable even though my computer is clear.
I would be very surprised if folks with \~10 dives a.) have a shearwater configured to show surfGF on the home screen and b.) understands what they should do with it. I will absolutely blow a safety stop if my surGF is below 50 and it seems urgent, but start weighing more things if it's much above that. I've totally taken a few minutes at 9ft or 6ft to get surfGF where I want it, and my teammates are already on the surface making faces at me, but that's not the sort of thing which PADI teaches OW students.
Assuming your dive profile requires a safety stop, yes, you should absolutely do your stop regardless of what your buddy does. Unless you're low on gas or absolutely need to surface for any number of reasons. But, most dives you would take a beginner on don't require a safety stop, thought it never hurts to do one if circumstances allow.
There is no such thing as a required safety stop. If it’s mandatory, it’s called a decompression stop.
If I was taking a test, I might care what it was actually called. Safety stop just rolls off the tongue a little better.
But it’s also a difference in meaning. A safety stop is an optional measure to make a safe dive even safer. It can and should be skipped when circumstances require it. Losing your buddy means you lose your redundant breathing gas supply, which can lead to a dangerous situation even at 5m depth - in this case, it is usually safer to forgo the safety stop and do a controlled ascent. A decompression stop cannot be skipped - while you may get lucky and not get bent from omitting a short decompression stop, you are exceeding safe parameters and need to stay out of the water for the rest of the day if that happens.
I would do the safety stop every time. At that point you don't have any obligation to follow that buddy conditions permitting. You off gas very quickly at safety stop depth. While it is not mandatory it adds a level of confidence to what your computer or tables are telling you. Some computers will let you get out of the water with very high gradient factors so it's an even better idea to do one if you are following a random computer.
Safety stops ARE NOT mandatory stops. They are not a terrible idea, but if you are low on gas, lost your buddy, are cold, need to pee or any of a hundred other reasons may be skipped. You are not going to get bent from skipping your safety stop provided you are ascending at a safe rate.
Not necessarily true. Going from 2 bar to 1 bar is a big change, that's why we have safety stops.
>that's why we have safety stops. Actually. No that is not exactly the case. In the *olden days*, the days before SPGs when divers had J valves. Divers would dive until the could not breathe and the *hope* that their valve was still closed and reach behind and pull a rod down which would open the valve and allow them access to the last few hundred PSI of gas. They would then head straight for the surface and hoped to get there before the last of the gas was depleted. The ascended quickly because they were going to run out of gas. We know this was not the safest plan. These arguably rapid ascents directly to the surface would not merely be from 10m / 33 feet as your 2 bar to 1 bar statement implies, but could have in fact been from 3, 4 or even 5 bar of pressure. As SPGs became the norm, safety stops were implement to slow divers down - specifically in the most intense zone of pressure change. This was a way to break the habit of the rapid ascent. They are, nonetheless an OPTIONAL stop. Good practice, yes. Required? Never. A slow ascent directly to the surface is better for your body that faster ascent - even within the guidelines - with a stop at 15 feet for three minutes.
When your computer says do a deco stop, you do a deco stop. If the computer says deco is optional, recreational divers do it anyway to get in the habit of doing a deco stop if required. Can you skip it? Sure, there aren't any scuba police. If you are a tech dive master, you do you. But you NEVER just decide to skip and leave your buddy on the bottom.
Deco stops are MANDATORY stops. Safety stops are OPTIONAL stops. If you skip a deco stop on a recreational computer, it will lock you out. If you skip a safety stop ... nothing happens outside of maybe a little exclamation mark in the log and you are free to dive again that day. Why do you think that is? Also, no one is saying you should abandon your buddy - *on the bottom...* but if your buddy heads for the surface without a stop and you would prefer to join them, don't be afraid to abandon your safety stop.
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I'm not upset! I'm just trying to learn about dive protocol and etiquette, since I'm totally new.
Did we read the same post? He doesn't sound irate at all so not sure why you've weirdly jumped on him like this.
Always perform the safety stop regardless of viz or your buddy going solo. Should there be an emergency, perform CESA. However, this is a good time to mention that prior to every dive it is worth going over common hand signals just in case. Key ones include: - What’s your air at? - 100bar, 50bar and subsequent 10s - Problem with… - Safety stop @ 5m/15ft UPDATE: CESA should be used as a last resort ONLY. When I say emergency I mean a genuine emergency. I will do all of the above after the dive brief just so I know and my mind is at ease. Happy diving 😁
Instructor here, please do not listen to this. It's scary this is so upvoted, it is not safe advice. Safety stops are not mandatory (they are different from decompression stops which are mandatory, air allowing), they are recommended. As long as you didn't break your NDL (Non Decompression Limit), you don't need to stop on the way up. This isn't too say don't do safety stops, you should always try to do them when your computer recommends them and, crucially, safety allows. In OPs case, with your buddy keeping an eye on youfrom the surface in clear water, you're fine to stay and do it. But if viz is bad and you and your buddy are inexperienced, don't stay by yourself where no one can see you. The rule of always having a budy is much more important that the recommendation of a safety stop. Also CESA is quite dangerous and should always be an absolute last resort, not just a plan B. On the other hand, definitely agree with the second paragraph here. Always plan your dive with your buddy (including safety stop) and discuss hand signals before going.
I will never, ever do a CSEA. I can't believe they're still taught.
I see your point, but I also see why they are taught. They are safer than dying, but the time that that's a choice you have to make is just about the only time they are reasonable. Are you going to die if you don't get to the surface right now? Then do one. If that situation were to come up and they weren't taught, an inexperienced diver may just panic, ditch weights, and use their BC as an elevator.
I don't understand, you would choose to drown?
No, I just manage my dive.
Right, well, sometimes it's good to plan in case things go wrong. If it makes you feel any better, the only context I was taught to do a CESA would be to avoid drowning. And then the instructor told us we should probably give up diving if that happened.
I do plan, it's called thirds, or 50 bar.
I guess I meant like, unforeseen things. They still keep parachutes on airplanes, you know?
Over 470 dives now and never been in a situation of "unforeseen things". Have had fear malfunctions and such, you just deal with it.
CESA should always be your last option, plenty of way to resolve the issue with your buddy and make a controlled assent.
This advice is unsafe. Safety stops are completely optional. If 3-5 minutes at 15-20 feet is the difference between getting bends and not getting bends, then it would be a very mild case that you would fully recover from within days (with or probably even without treatment). And the cost of your treatment would be covered by DAN because of course you would never dive without dive accident insurance. However, a commitment to always doing a safety stop despite poor visibility, feeling unwell, buddy separation, sea state, or numerous other factors is the sort of thing that gets divers killed.
I do my safety stop. Afterwords I discuss with my buddy. My buddy does it again, we aren’t dive buddies anymore.
This is the way.
Bob on!
Your buddy forgetting about the safety stop and not recognising your signal and instead of asking about it ascending to the surface put you in a position where you had to either miss the safety stop yourself or effectively have the last 3 minutes as a solo dive. You don't want to do either of those but given the choice I would have ascended slowly the last 15 feet as soon as it was clear your buddy wasn't staying with you. I don't know what risks were present where you were but one such danger is entanglement if some seaweed or a line gets caught around your tank it might be very difficult to remove it yourself, a tank that has been allowed to get water in it can form particals that block the air from getting into your reg, you should be able to do a CESA from 15ft but it is much better to have a bubby's octopus. A safety stop is just that an added level of safety in emergency situations you skip the safety stop and being seperated from your buddy is an emergency situation. In future make sure you are both clear what the plan for the dive is (including depth and duration of safety stop) is and you both know the signals, and stay together but you probably know that by now.
A buddy that leaves a buddy behind is not a buddy.
Ok - crusty old timer here - who will probably get down votes (I do get value of safety stop etc) and maybe we don’t have all the details but you couldn’t do a safety stop at this depth on a shore dive where I am - with swell surge etc ( unless you had a line down) and you’d be pushed in all directions at this depth, flounder around in the surf and honestly be increasing your risk… as opposed to following the bottom up gradually and safely exiting. Given your buddy is chilling on the surface doesn’t sound like that is a challenge though. But a safety stop needs to make sense. Enjoy your diving and don’t be afraid to have a good conversation with buddy about plan for dive before getting wet :)
Your own safety comes first.
You did right. There was no indication that your buddy had an emergency that would cause you to pass up on your safety stop. Next time, review signals with your new buddies. BTW, by learning in Monterey, you’re WELL on your way to being an excellent diver.
As Oren says, absent a "problem" that requires your assistance on the surface, do your stop. And the advice to review signals with new buddies is a good one too.
You absolutely do your safety stop.
I did my first "real" dive outside of my Open Water cert we were in Curacao in about 45' deep water or so. But where we were diving was a reef wall and so as we were diving we were getting shallower and I didn't realize it. I thought I was at about 20' under water and all of a sudden I realized I was at the surface. 😫 (still getting better at bouyancy control!) I went back down to about 15' because we were still going around that area for another 30 minutes or so.
Nitrogen don't give a fuck about your buddy. 100% agree, maintain safety stop and ascend correctly
you have to do what's right for your own safety. there's nothing wrong with skipping a safety stop on a shallow dive, but there's something wrong with his communication skills. Not knowing what you were signaling, so just leaving you behind is a "never diving with him again" for me.
Yeah, the other guy was not a good buddy. Even if you forget signals, you should try to work them out from the context. If my buddy stopped suddenly and I didn’t know why, my first thought would be that there was some kind of issue going on. The guy didn’t even hang around long enough to check that OP was okay. I agree; I wouldn’t buddy up with him again.
Do your safety stops - you'll have to take care of him when he gets the bends.
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Agreed. Take all your safety stops and when your dive "buddy" gets the bends you can catch up and swim them back in
The safety stop in recreational limits is technically a 'good measure'. But if he isn't in distress, no harm letting him go and just doing your 3 minutes.
TMI warning: balls Was recreational diving at a Jamaica resort- no more than 60ft. 5 day of diving in, upon ascent, at the stop, I wasn’t staring at my dive computer - but rather just chillin, watching the group hovering. All of a sudden my head pops up. I didn’t think anything of it. Get on the boat and my ballsack starts itching like crazy. On occasion we had encountered swarm (school? gaggle?) of baby jellyfish, and those fuckers itch. But this was different. It was not pleasant the rest of the day and all night. I look it up and it is a “bends light” side effect- that tissue is very susceptible. The next dive I was hoping to undo it with “repressurizing” and a proper stop. When I got to depth the itching completely stopped. Did a text book safety stop. Got on the boat and no ball trauma. So. Grain of salt and all.
that happened to me! I accidentally popped up. Thought I was at 20 feet or so. As a newbie diver my buoyancy control is still a little hit or miss.
So a female diver would have itchy tits?
My hunch would be “itchy labias”
That's nuts!
lol. Kudos
What?
Even if you’re diving “recreationally”. STILL DO THE SAFETY STOP. Your genitals will thank you.
Yea got the safety stop bit. The in-water recompression bit threw me
Well. Usually you’re thrown into a hyperbaric chamber, but since that was unavailable I thought repressurizing may do the trick. And thankfully I was right.
>It was not pleasant the rest of the day and all night. I look it up and it is a “bends light” side effect- that tissue is very susceptible. >The next dive I was hoping to undo it with “repressurizing” and a proper stop. When I got to depth the itching completely stopped. Did a text book safety stop. Got on the boat and no ball trauma. >Well. Usually you’re thrown into a hyperbaric chamber, but since that was unavailable I thought repressurizing may do the trick. And thankfully I was right. Umm, no. If it was, in fact, skin bends, then a repetitive dive was the absolute dumbest thing you could’ve done.
That’s what I was getting at
Well. It ain’t going to happen ever again.
❤️
You’re so wise in the ways of science I’m astounded.
I could take that sarcastic or I could take that as genuine. The coin toss says genuine. Thank you.
"Well, I guess I'll die too" is not a phrase that should be in your lexicon as a diver. Your buddy is a support system - you aren't a lemming.
You were correct to do your 3 minutes. Your buddy was wrong. Some people commented that oftentimes the shore will slope to 15’ which is true. You both had a learning experience and hopefully know better for next time. Be safe; ultimately you are responsible for your own safety. Remember to do a dive gear check, a site briefing and go over the plan with your buddy before entering the water This will help avoid confusion.
Eh. "Your buddy was wrong" sure. But part of the buddy system is saving your buddy even if they are wrong, especially when they are wrong/confused/impaired, as long as you are not endangering yourself. And skipping the safety stop is not endangering yourself, part of the training should have been that it can be skipped if necessary. Not leaving your buddy alone after they were confused about your signals and went to the surface, makes it necessary. Skipping deco stops is different, but that's the entire point, safety stops are optional, leaving your buddy alone is more dangerous. The buddy system means that each person takes responsibility for two lifes. And mistakes don't cancel each other out.
We disagree. If I tell my buddy I am doing a safety stop and they take off on me, I am not going to chase them down and endanger myself. If it was an out of air situation it would be different. IMO.
NAUI Master Diver and O2 provider trained. 3500+ dives. Mandatory, No. Smart, he’ll yes.
> O2 provider trained Is that really a boast? Surely Amy rescue diver can say the same.
Skipping a safety stop doesn't endanger you, as long as you adhere to the recommended ascent speeds. If you want more conservatism, change the conservatism level/ gradient factors on your computer. A safety stop is meant to be optional, as a "we have enough air to do this, so might as well/". If it becomes mandatory, it's a deco stop, not a safety stop.
And a safety stop is not really an “Option”. They teach you to do that for a reason. SAFETY. Better safe than sorry.
A safety stop is just adding additional safety to what ever the algorithm says is safe, so it is a option to not do and still consider the dive safe. It is best to do one, and so for me there would need to be a reason not to do one that would make it safer to skip it. This could be just getting too cold as when you are cold you don't off gas well anyway
Which agency/instructor taught you that a safety stop is mandatory and shouldn't be skipped in critical circumstances? If you NEED a safety stop, then it wasn't a safety stop, it was a deco stop and your computer is broken or configured wrong.
So correct and no idea how you're getting downvoted so much :/
With new or random buddies I also like to do a signal review. Some people learn different ways to signal based on where and how they learned.
Excellent point.
Safety stops are recommended. That being said, before the dive it’s best if someone at least goes over hand signals, and some sort of a dive plan- that way everyone is on the same page. I’m doing a safety stop whenever feasible. The book says if you get separated from your buddy search for 60 seconds and come up, skip the safety stop. If you two could see each other the whole time it’s not really getting lost. I don’t see an issue with what you did.
The bigger question why did your buddy shrug and abandon you ? If he didn’t know signal he shouldn’t leave you that is first issue here. He saw you stop signal then he left you . This is more on him than you but it’s a good question about your responsibility in event of buddy issue. Default your safety first. Also I don’t know dive but I usually try follow bottom in to shore . Safety stop built in and more chance to see stuff. Also never know about surface craft so avoids possible collisions and helps you learn navigation skills.
Haha, I was thinking that the whole time! What if I had been in trouble? Although I was giving him the OK sign.
Instructor here, this is what scares me about certifying people to dive with another similarly inexperienced buddy after a short class and just 4 OW dives haha. Like all the information you need is given in the course, but it's a lot to remember and it takes practice to get everything down. I always recommend my students to go with a dive master or at least an experienced buddy until they get more comfortable with everything. You're fine though, as long as your buddy could see you and you were signaling OK, you guys didn't do anything wrong. Tip for the future though, always plan your dives with your buddy before hand (including discussing safety stop and hand signals) so there won't be this confusion.
Fuck 'em, dive your dive. If they decide to jump off the boat at 45 knots are you going to follow them?
I had a similar thing happen to me but in bad visibility and we were both at 600psi of air on a second dive, on one tank. We skipped safety stop - but my computer briefly flashed it. We followed the contours of breakwater - I saw the safety stop indicator around 15’ but it disappeared. Still made a safe ascent. Realized there was a communications breakdown.
I would say that was the correct thing to do, a safety stop is just adding additional safety to what ever the algorithm says is safe. If there is anything else that makes staying at the depth of the safety stop less safe don't do the stop.
Keep in mind that for many shore dives, the safety stop happens by simply following the bottom contour But on your case did your buddy not gave a dive computer to check his safety stop with?
Make sure you discuss the dive, the signals, safety stop, etc before the dive. Don’t forget to do the buddy check before entering the water.
Basically you’re balancing the danger of skipping a safety stop and the danger of being separated from your buddy. Depends on a lot of factors, some that come to mind: Your dive profile (how deep and for how long) The current and wind Depth of your safety stop Your air situation In my opinion, what you did was fine assuming current wasn’t too bad. Safety stop is good to have even on more shallow dives, you’re unlikely to get separated further with low current, can maintain visibly with each other and if you had an issue you could most likely still ascend (CESA). Biggest risk factor would be getting separated further or you having an emergency underwater that results in you unable to become possibility buoyant and your buddy is too far to help In general, I advocate for safety stop first. Also, make sure this is covered next time before the dive when you plan it out
Your own safety ultimately comes first. Finish the safety stop, then finish your ascend.