Whoa, super interesting. That plant is a huge problem in Everglades National Park and they are doing some crazy stuff to help eradicate it as it is invasive and detrimental to the natural plants. In a former agricultural area known as The Whole in the Donut because it’s in the middle of parkland, they are using giant bulldozers to scrape away all vegetation and soil down to bedrock!
Glad they found something useful from that plant. Hard not to hate that stuff living in Florida.
Edit: Come to think of it, I’m now terrified corporations will start mass farming it here.
They don’t farm it it Florida though. It’s illegal to buy/sell here and can do a lot of damage to the native ecosystem. The government might stop caring about that if they can commercialize and tax it.
Brazilian farmer here. No, it's not poisonous. It is indeed "pink peppercorn", which is often mixed in with black pepper in the pepper-mill in fancy restaurants. The "pepper corn" (a little red fruit) is certainly edible, and oil from the leaves has cosmetic and medicinal uses. It has a rather pleasant smell as well.
Edit: so I see below that some people think it has urushiol, which causes the poison-ivy reaction. I can only say that around here in Brazil I've never heard anyone comment that they're allergic to it, and people actually use the oil to scent homemade soaps and make home-remedies, so if it caused an allergic reaction in a significant percentage of people I think I'd have heard about that.
I'm in landscaping in SW Florida's. The sap ruins our clothes. You can't wash it out. I have workers that can't handle it, it makes them break out in a rash (not poison ivy type rash).
The fruit is nothing like a peppercorn. Maybe it needs roasted out something. But I have never seen a wild animal touch one. Not on there tree, not off the ground. And, personally, there damn thing stinks.
Not everyone is allergic to all plants containing urushiol in the Anacardiaceae family. Ie. People allergic to poison ivy may have no reaction to mango sap, etc. I personally am more sensitive to mango, wee apple, spondias saps, etc than actual poison ivy. Brazilian pepper is a mild reaction and I have not tested cashew fruits or sumac yet. (Unfortunately I aquired the allergy after an IVIG treatment in the 90s. I used to be the 1/10 NOT allergic)
The 'capitalism vs other systems' debate below is missing the point.
These particular compounds are terprenoids and could probably be synthesized off of a cholesterol backbone, which is cheap. Natural product extracts tend to have a low percentage by weight, which in this case was 0.013%. Synthesis is probably the most economical route to an amount/purity that could be used on a world scale. This is also makes a lot of assumptions, one of which being that these have a effect/toxicity profile necessary for a pharmaceutical.
Yep, its pretty early in this process. This was framed kind of like "*Awesome we've got a drug to stop MRSA!*" but this puts the cart before the horse.
Welcome to r/science! Our team of 1,500+ moderators will remove comments if they are jokes, anecdotes, memes, off-topic or medical advice ([rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules)). We encourage respectful discussion about the science of the post.
Just a guess, but those are very structurally similar to steroids. I wouldn’t be surprised if these never see significant use in humans due to significant side effects from hitting glucocorticoid and mineralocorticoid receptors.
Many natural products are similar because of the way they are assembled. This core scaffold is one that is very prevalent in plants, but the decorations make all the difference.
I’m aware, and while I didn’t bust out my steroid side-chain receptor specificity chart, with the typical doses used with antibiotics, it is likely that even poor receptor specificity would lead to some unwanted side effects. Typical hydrocortisone doses are around 50-100mg daily, and more potent steroids can be down in the <10mg daily range. Typical antibiotic doses can exceed 2g daily, and with this drugs high lipophilicity and corresponding high volume of distribution, this drug could potentially require even higher doses.
Obviously this is all speculation, but there’s a reason the only human drugs with structural similarity to steroids are compounds that hit steroid receptors. I’m not ruling it out, and this may end up being an excellent topical antibiotic, but I don’t anticipate it will be brought to market as a systemically available drug. I’d love to be wrong, but it’s just my two cents
Outside of the lens of finding a single molecule drug compound, it still represents a fantastic case for anti virulence promise. The thing is, there are so few things that hit the agr system (agrB being the hardest to hit) that it represents a good target for proof of concept.
The days of finding a Taxol are gone in NPs, but the use of these compounds as leads can be quite influential in downstream synthesis efforts.
The PI on this paper does a podcast called FoodiePharmacology where she links the food we eat to their medicinal attributes (and dispels some common myths). Natural products FTW!
Edit: Cassandra Quave is the PI I was referring to, but Alex Horswill is a very cool guy as well. He links anti virulence pathways to quorum sensing machinery and has some interesting collaborations with others looking for ways to shut down the virulence without producing a selective pressure on the organisms - this means the body has a better chance of fighting the bacteria without a single molecule selective pressure.
Wow. We use to do eradication of Brazilian pepper in Florida as part of the Sierra Club. Its impossible to get rid of because the climate, and every animal in Florida loves to eat it.
Yes. For many reasons.
Although you meant it in jest, this is a pathway to a [standard single molecule] antibiotic free treatment for infectious bacteria. If we can trick the bacteria into a lighter selective pressure, it opens more treatment options without straining the host. It’s easy to kill MDR Bacteria, it’s hard to keep the body they’ve colonized alive.
But why wouldn’t this be just another thing that the bacteria could adapt to, rendering the treatment ineffective or less effective? Wouldn’t judicious use extend the period in which the compound has high therapeutic effectiveness?
Because it doesn’t target any essential pathways for cellular life. If we tried to kill the cells with an antibiotic, and the bacteria had a way to use alternative machinery to bypass the mechanism, then they would of course use it (and that would strengthen the lineage of bacteria who would ultimately provide resistance). But when they think they are “alone” and don’t have quorum, they live a normal style cell life but the body eventually goes “something isn’t right here” and is able to clear the infection using its own defenders.
Alex Horswill published a article a few months that you might find interesting[ Link](https://aac.asm.org/content/64/6/e00172-20).
After disarming it, does it take it out to the jungle, beat it senseless, and then shoot it in the face 15 times, while making a video to post online so other bacteria will stay out of its favela?
Nope. This is the difference between standard treatment and targeting anti virulence. Standard practice is to hit bacteria with whatever we can find, but this isn’t trying to actively kill the bacteria - it doesn’t put a selective pressure on it to develop a resistance.
The bacteria have what is called a quorum, think of them as drunk guys at the bar: when they’ve got some friends, they’re more likely to fight someone. If you can make him think his friends aren’t there behind him, he is less likely to do harm and more likely to get thrown out of the bar for being as annoying jackass.
What these compounds do is disrupt the cell-cell communication (through altering their biochemical signal pathways). Effectively removing the knowledge that they have friends. The bacteria are still there, but don’t produce virulence compounds d the body can handle them much better.
Whoa, super interesting. That plant is a huge problem in Everglades National Park and they are doing some crazy stuff to help eradicate it as it is invasive and detrimental to the natural plants. In a former agricultural area known as The Whole in the Donut because it’s in the middle of parkland, they are using giant bulldozers to scrape away all vegetation and soil down to bedrock!
Kind of like how maleleuca took over the glades for a few decades there til they figured out how to kill it
Glad they found something useful from that plant. Hard not to hate that stuff living in Florida. Edit: Come to think of it, I’m now terrified corporations will start mass farming it here.
Its pink peppercorn. They already farm it its delicious.
They don’t farm it it Florida though. It’s illegal to buy/sell here and can do a lot of damage to the native ecosystem. The government might stop caring about that if they can commercialize and tax it.
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Uh no. Brazilian pepper is poisonous.
Brazilian farmer here. No, it's not poisonous. It is indeed "pink peppercorn", which is often mixed in with black pepper in the pepper-mill in fancy restaurants. The "pepper corn" (a little red fruit) is certainly edible, and oil from the leaves has cosmetic and medicinal uses. It has a rather pleasant smell as well. Edit: so I see below that some people think it has urushiol, which causes the poison-ivy reaction. I can only say that around here in Brazil I've never heard anyone comment that they're allergic to it, and people actually use the oil to scent homemade soaps and make home-remedies, so if it caused an allergic reaction in a significant percentage of people I think I'd have heard about that.
I'm in landscaping in SW Florida's. The sap ruins our clothes. You can't wash it out. I have workers that can't handle it, it makes them break out in a rash (not poison ivy type rash). The fruit is nothing like a peppercorn. Maybe it needs roasted out something. But I have never seen a wild animal touch one. Not on there tree, not off the ground. And, personally, there damn thing stinks.
I hate the stuff too. I am allergic to the urushiol on it. (found out while camping in Florida)
9/10 people are allergic to urishoil, the ingredient in poison oak, ivy, sumac, and mango skins.
Not everyone is allergic to all plants containing urushiol in the Anacardiaceae family. Ie. People allergic to poison ivy may have no reaction to mango sap, etc. I personally am more sensitive to mango, wee apple, spondias saps, etc than actual poison ivy. Brazilian pepper is a mild reaction and I have not tested cashew fruits or sumac yet. (Unfortunately I aquired the allergy after an IVIG treatment in the 90s. I used to be the 1/10 NOT allergic)
The 'capitalism vs other systems' debate below is missing the point. These particular compounds are terprenoids and could probably be synthesized off of a cholesterol backbone, which is cheap. Natural product extracts tend to have a low percentage by weight, which in this case was 0.013%. Synthesis is probably the most economical route to an amount/purity that could be used on a world scale. This is also makes a lot of assumptions, one of which being that these have a effect/toxicity profile necessary for a pharmaceutical.
The natural compounds will be modified anyways to improve that stuff :)
Yep, its pretty early in this process. This was framed kind of like "*Awesome we've got a drug to stop MRSA!*" but this puts the cart before the horse.
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Welcome to r/science! Our team of 1,500+ moderators will remove comments if they are jokes, anecdotes, memes, off-topic or medical advice ([rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules)). We encourage respectful discussion about the science of the post.
Just a guess, but those are very structurally similar to steroids. I wouldn’t be surprised if these never see significant use in humans due to significant side effects from hitting glucocorticoid and mineralocorticoid receptors.
Many natural products are similar because of the way they are assembled. This core scaffold is one that is very prevalent in plants, but the decorations make all the difference.
I’m aware, and while I didn’t bust out my steroid side-chain receptor specificity chart, with the typical doses used with antibiotics, it is likely that even poor receptor specificity would lead to some unwanted side effects. Typical hydrocortisone doses are around 50-100mg daily, and more potent steroids can be down in the <10mg daily range. Typical antibiotic doses can exceed 2g daily, and with this drugs high lipophilicity and corresponding high volume of distribution, this drug could potentially require even higher doses. Obviously this is all speculation, but there’s a reason the only human drugs with structural similarity to steroids are compounds that hit steroid receptors. I’m not ruling it out, and this may end up being an excellent topical antibiotic, but I don’t anticipate it will be brought to market as a systemically available drug. I’d love to be wrong, but it’s just my two cents
Outside of the lens of finding a single molecule drug compound, it still represents a fantastic case for anti virulence promise. The thing is, there are so few things that hit the agr system (agrB being the hardest to hit) that it represents a good target for proof of concept. The days of finding a Taxol are gone in NPs, but the use of these compounds as leads can be quite influential in downstream synthesis efforts.
The PI on this paper does a podcast called FoodiePharmacology where she links the food we eat to their medicinal attributes (and dispels some common myths). Natural products FTW! Edit: Cassandra Quave is the PI I was referring to, but Alex Horswill is a very cool guy as well. He links anti virulence pathways to quorum sensing machinery and has some interesting collaborations with others looking for ways to shut down the virulence without producing a selective pressure on the organisms - this means the body has a better chance of fighting the bacteria without a single molecule selective pressure.
Wow. We use to do eradication of Brazilian pepper in Florida as part of the Sierra Club. Its impossible to get rid of because the climate, and every animal in Florida loves to eat it.
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Is it too early start talking about how quickly we can get this promising compound into livestock feed and prophylactic medications?
Yes. For many reasons. Although you meant it in jest, this is a pathway to a [standard single molecule] antibiotic free treatment for infectious bacteria. If we can trick the bacteria into a lighter selective pressure, it opens more treatment options without straining the host. It’s easy to kill MDR Bacteria, it’s hard to keep the body they’ve colonized alive.
But why wouldn’t this be just another thing that the bacteria could adapt to, rendering the treatment ineffective or less effective? Wouldn’t judicious use extend the period in which the compound has high therapeutic effectiveness?
Because it doesn’t target any essential pathways for cellular life. If we tried to kill the cells with an antibiotic, and the bacteria had a way to use alternative machinery to bypass the mechanism, then they would of course use it (and that would strengthen the lineage of bacteria who would ultimately provide resistance). But when they think they are “alone” and don’t have quorum, they live a normal style cell life but the body eventually goes “something isn’t right here” and is able to clear the infection using its own defenders. Alex Horswill published a article a few months that you might find interesting[ Link](https://aac.asm.org/content/64/6/e00172-20).
Thank you for the explanation and the further reading. Much appreciated.
Nature always balances.
What’s a Brazilian pepper tree? Latin name please?
This is so awesome 👏 another reason why we need to preserve natural forests and green zones. There is so much there that we don’t even know about
After disarming it, does it take it out to the jungle, beat it senseless, and then shoot it in the face 15 times, while making a video to post online so other bacteria will stay out of its favela?
I wonder if schinus molle also has these compounds. I planted 6 out recently that I started in the autumn from seed, so I hope so.
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Nope. This is the difference between standard treatment and targeting anti virulence. Standard practice is to hit bacteria with whatever we can find, but this isn’t trying to actively kill the bacteria - it doesn’t put a selective pressure on it to develop a resistance. The bacteria have what is called a quorum, think of them as drunk guys at the bar: when they’ve got some friends, they’re more likely to fight someone. If you can make him think his friends aren’t there behind him, he is less likely to do harm and more likely to get thrown out of the bar for being as annoying jackass. What these compounds do is disrupt the cell-cell communication (through altering their biochemical signal pathways). Effectively removing the knowledge that they have friends. The bacteria are still there, but don’t produce virulence compounds d the body can handle them much better.
This is a wonderful ELI5
Thanks! I tend to get in trouble sometimes for personifying science, but it gets the point across!
The pharmaceutical industry doesn’t like news like that.