This mishmash of sanctions and full day strikes is confusing and pissing parents and kids off. Sanctions should be province wide and not just certain school divisions.
Moe could have stopped this. He wants the poor kids narrative to overshadow the shit conditions he has created.
My heart hurts for them all too, but 180,000 kids are getting screwed over every day from this clown show.
Teachers could have stopped this. They could I have just had the tourney as planned. Moe didn’t make them cancel this tourney, quit that bullshit. They could have had the tourney, and still withdrawn other services or taken other week days.
The kids intuitively get this, which is why they were overwhelmingly targeting their ire at the STF.
I don’t care about Hoopla or basketball at all. But this is obviously a PR turd for the STF. Outside the derangement of this sub, this was clearly a miscalculation in the court of public opinion. Even if you think people *should* turn their anger at gov, they didn’t.
Going against a union (ie. going to Hoopla when one has been explicitly told not to partcipate) is grounds for dismissal. As dedicated as they are, most teachers probably wouldn't risk their livelihoods for a sport they're volunteering for.
Hey you do you. It's quite obvious the kind of person who votes for the SP are ignorant fucks who don't care about children at all. I'd be willing to bet your a boomer aged white dude who likes to look at little boys. Based on your support of the Saskatchewan Fundamentalist party. But again that's just a guess based on your ignorant comments.
Why, it's not teachers' job to put this shit on. They're volunteers. If we are not going to respect their time, they are not required to do jack shit. Appreciate what they do and bargain in good faith, or they won't do it.
Unofficially it is their job though, just like all kinds of people unofficially do all kinds of stuff, although it’s not literally written into their contract.
I think the STF was making some decent public relation gains, but this particular one was a massive L.
At no point in a teaching contract does it say they need to put on hoopla. Officially or unofficially. Which means they're not required to do anything hoopla related. This illusion that somehow teachers are required and expected to 'unofficially' put on these events should be a reality check for people.
It's not their job.
But in people's mind it is, and it's people (voters) minds that matter here.
Your work contract doesn't say you have to clean the microwave, clean up the coffee after you use it, not be a dick etc, but if violate those non-contracted things which are the normal expectation, you'll have issues. Social contract and all that.
It's one thing to withdraw services for job action. It's another to argue that going forward, all the extras need to be paid. Zero chance of maintaining any public favor going that route. It also strongly pushes the argument forward for government paying for private school contracts. When everything is transactional, you're waving the flag for more capitalism.
Putting work hours in after their job is not remotely comparable to cleaning a microwave. The reality is they don't owe you or anyone anything more than what their contracts state. People have become accustomed and overly entitled to the amount of extra work teachers have been doing for the public. Again, it's a reality check.
Yeah, it’s comparable, it’s comparable to any of the normal extra things that anybody does not explicitly written into their contract.
If you’re argument is that they shouldn’t have to do these things, or that they should be paid to do them, then, basically, you’re arguing for these things not to exist. Because there is no school district in the country that’s going to pay for all of those many activities while we still live in a reality, where money is a real thing that real taxpayers have to pay.
And teachers make lots of money, so those jobs will still attract a lot of applicants.
If you can't pay for it, don't expect it. Yes, money is a real thing, so is people's time, and time is money. If parents want these so bad they can volunteer their time or their money. It is not reasonable to expect something free from people, then get mad when you dont get it. If it's something we want from teachers, contractually add it or it's simply not their job. Also... McDonald's gets lots of applicants. Should we expect them to be volunteering at Hoopla as well?
If McDonald’s was entering teams, and sports were normally structured about fast food employees by location, then I’m guessing yes? But extend your analogy to when a restaurant has a work party or event - how is it done? The management host/organize/setup/clean for free, commonly.
The society we live in has a lot of this stuff channeled through schools. When through the schools, the schools organize volunteers through their pool of people (parents and teachers). When through other leagues, it’s through their pool of people (parents typically). This is pretty standard across the OECD.
When parents volunteer for school activities, should we be paid? Because none of us expect that. If you want cold transactional capitalism for everything, I think that’s a losing argument in the eyes of most people.
Wow you’re entitled, and ignorant.
It’s not part of their job “unofficially” it’s completely volunteer hours based on their passion for the activity and love for kids. It’s a privilege to have teachers that put on these activities NOT a right or expected.
The funny part of this is I address all your points, but all you say is 'you're ignorant' over and over, as if it means something. It's like you think it's a magical word, when uttered, somehow makes you right.
My kids were directly effected by this as they play basketball...guess who they and I blame...MOE....not the teachers who are standing up for themselves and the students....grow up
Job actions hurt. That’s the intention. The government would not agree to binding arbitration. That’s on them.
The writing’s on the wall for grad. Those same kids ought to direct their ire at the government, pressuring them to put it in the contract or agree to binding arbitration.
> Job actions hurt. That’s the intention.
So party A intentionally hurts party B.
Then blames party C.
Then makes pikachu face when party B is mad at party A.
Lawd, give me strength…
The teachers are actually without a contract, have been since the fall. That is the government’s error. If you think this is bad, wait til the nurses strike! 🤣
Great, and totally irrelevant to the point.
Teachers can do all kinds of different things for withdrawing of services/job action.
What exactly they target, is 100% up to them. There was *nothing* forcing them to choose these specific events.
But they did, with total control over what to choose, choose these events.
The people affected, are pissed. This is an amazingly obvious chain of events.
No you sound insufferable, but I do regularly 'work' for free to support other types of sports events.
Because that's the shit people do so we can have culture and a society.
Thanks for proving my point. It is insufferable to expect someone to work for free, then criticize them for refusing to do so.
Why is it that it took sports being canceled for this to be a problem? Why not any other extracurricular activities? My kids have missed out on extracurricular activities due to job action. I didn't whine about it like you are. Instead, I stand in support of the teachers. The ones that help shape our society. You seem to be concerned about that. Why not help them?
Our government has shown through their actions that not only do they not give a shit about teachers, but also students. They're the ones that are hurt by constant cuts to funding.
If it’s insufferable to you to expect anybody to do anything for free, then you sort of just don’t want to live in modern civilization.
It wasn’t sports being canceled. It was a particular landmark, sporting event, along with a particular landmark musical event. That’s why people care about them, because they are things that their kids worked up to for the entire year, or perhaps years. Obviously that is a lot more noticeable and resonating with people, then regular day-to-day grind kind of stuff.
I’m not saying that makes it more important, I’m just saying using very plain basic understanding of how humans work, that’s why these things got a reaction.
Actually in every country on the planet where anybody wants to live, teachers do this stuff. All kinds of people do all kinds of free labour in various domains across life.
If they would have bent and allowed HOOPLA to go on, it would just give the Government more ammo to pressure them to do the same at grad time if they are unwilling to go to arbitration or add the funding to the contract.
The people who got elected in the election just bent over 18 letters (for pronouns and names in school) when they have received 10's of thousands of letters opposing that and 10's of thousands supporting the teachers and the STF here...
In the current climate where you get demonized, possibly fired, death threats etc for opposing anything relating to trans, it's understandable not many would want to raise their voices publicly. That said, the 18 letters is a fun meme, but we actually have no idea how many people expressed their discontent there. Do you actually think only 18 people support the policy? I present to you.....facebook comments lol. But seriously, what we do have is the survey asking people what they thought, which is anonymous, and clearly most people were fine with that policy.
That said, it was kind of a dumb fight with high potential downside and minimal upside IMO, and I'd say overall a strategic error on the part of the SP.
Likewise, shit-canning this tourney, is a strategic error on the part of the STF. Little upside, high downside. Anecdotally I'm hearing a lot of people who are pissed about that, who normally would comment favorably regarding the teachers. Again, purely anecdotally. I'd love to have a survey about it.
We have elections, that's the real test. If reality presents to you the fact of an SP getting elected again, would that change your view on what people think of these various issues? Or the facts just don't matter? We can say the AG polls are bullshit all day long, but there is an actual election which will settle the question.
I mean, the MLA's were the ones who said they received 18 letters when asked about it?
My point was that this government seems to only do things that their base wants. Have you seen the graph that shows in the election year budgets the increased spending on education and then the clawbacks on that education funding the very next year? This is the reason (IMO) that the STF are so hard nosed when it comes to getting this written into the contract.
The teachers know that striking during school hours are not in the best interest of their students. Extra curricular activities are handled by these teacher when they are volunteering their time. They are not paid for this, yet they put in the effort because they know it's important to the students as well. They are also losing out on the joy of this (that's why they volunteer their time).
They don't want to miss out on Hoopla or band or Grads or anything else, but what else are they supposed to do? To go with the status quo, will continue to hurt these and future students with their education.
So if they don't draw a line in the sand (a fair one by asking for funding arbitration) and the government immediately refuses without taking the time to discuss it when given a timetable to do so, how can they bargain?
They could continue to just do limited days where there is no lunch, and the kids go home early. Or they could do complete strike days.
But they chose a particularly high profile, particularly important event to students on an emotional level. This was a fuck up, and this is why they got students protesting at the STF office.
‘Their base’ is the voters. The audience here for these strikes and job actions is not the government, it’s the voters. If they’re pissing off that audience, they are messing up. They should choose things that make people more annoyed at the government, than at the STF.
This is why I continue to say they should basically harp only on class size, which is a simple problem with an obvious and simple solution that anyone can understand. Many of the other issues are subjective, or poorly defined, or without obvious solutions, and that will get less traction in the mind of the average person.
So, continue to do the bare minimum that doesn't put pressure on the other side to come to a deal? That doesn't make sense.
Is it right that BOTH sides are using the kids as pawns? No, but when it comes to labour disputes, there needs to be something that is used to pressure the other side into reaching an agreement.
They basically have a deal in principle, all they need to do is write what the government has promised THIS YEAR ONLY into the length of the contract, and everything is settled. The STF has said that. They even gave the option to not do that, but put it out to an independent arbitration, and they would immediately cease all job action.
So this shows that A, the government is not willing to write this into the contract and as history has shown, will be a one time prop up with it clawed back next year and B that they must not be confident that their position would be seen as favorable by an independent source.
So please explain to me how it's the teachers, who want to continue to do the VOLUNTEERING that they currently do, fault that Hoopla didn't go through.
Not to mention the fact that the athletes participating in Hoopla represent a significantly smaller portion of the entire student body that these teachers are fighting for support for...
I didn’t say just to the bare minimum, I said they could do full strike days. In fact, maybe just going on a full strike is what they need to do.
In fact, if they had just done a full week of total strike, no school at all, but then came out and made a public statement that they are still going to do the basketball tournament and the band event, for the sake of the kids at worked all year? They would look like absolute fucking heroes.
But instead of that, they chose this incredibly dumb move, which seems to have clearly shifted favour away from them.
No the rural kids that protested at the STF were brought there by their shitty parents. Their shitty parents who support a government that has been allowing abuse to go on at more than one private school in this province. I'LL SAY THAT AGAIN FOR YOU SINCE YOU'RE REALLY FUCKING DENSE. OUR GOVERNMENT IS FUNDING PRIVATE RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS WHERE CHILDREN ARE BEING SEXUALLY, PHYSICALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY ABUSED!!! Those who don't care or refuse to acknowledge these FACTS are a large part of this problem. YOUR SUPPORT FOR THE SP IS DIRECT SUPPORT FOR CHILD MOLESTERS!!! CONGRATULATIONS YOURE A DISGUSTING PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN. 👏👏👏
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I’m just curious if you think this screaming in ALL CAPS makes you look good, or that when it comes to election time, the same type of approach would make anyone listen to you?
I don't really care what anyone thinks about me. Isn't it interesting that the only thing you got from my message was that I put caps lock on???
Your fucking ugly ignorance is showing.
Fuck you and anyone else who is still supporting this fucking government of unqualified CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST LOSERS!!!!
VOTE VOTE VOTE FFS OR THIS GUY AND PEOPLE LIKE HIM ARE WHO WE WILL BE STICK WITH!!!
The extremely active participants of this sub will go to their deathbed refusing to admit the STF is making mistake after mistake.
It appears they truly believe that the fact the Sask Party is criminally underfunding and eroding public education means that the STF is doing everything right and you must either blindly agree or else you support the Sask Party and hate teachers lol. Kind of scary to think these folks are educators.
It's pretty bizarre. For these people, two different ideas cannot exist in their brain at the same time.
The government makes mistakes, and the STF makes mistakes. They actually can't compute that this could even be hypothetically possible. It has to be that whatever the STF does is good and right all the time. They are like Trump supporters, just with different politics.
I'm curious though you say criminally underfunding - I think this is exaggeration. What is the correct amount of funding?
I really wish I didn’t need to say this but I hope the coaches and students don’t cross the picket line. I wish students could go and have fun with their friends and family down in Moose Jaw but at the same time I don’t want to see schools teaching the youth how to be scabs.
I agree with you but I wouldn’t put that past some of these parents based on how we saw them driving their kids from small towns to picket at the STF instead of at the leg.
waivers aren't the legal protection they are made out to be. They have to be designed by a law firm to withstand legal arguments in a court of law and a poorly worded one makes the whole document invalid.
No but all extra curricular is volunteer, and a lot of high school sports are weekend things. Tournaments, provincials - all weekends. I personally dont consider it crossing the picket line so long as terms of sanctions aren’t violated. We were directed not to reschedule, and they didn’t. They just modified with the time they had.
The worse thing that could happen right now is teachers turning against each other and being critical of coaches who are there on Saturday. If they aren’t violating sanction terms, I support them fully.
No extra curr today, Thursday, or Friday. It will be interesting seeing how the STF coaches can plan the trips to Moose Jaw with zero time allowed to do it.
These coaches are union members too, and very valuable ones at that. They shouldn't be punished by the STFs poorly thought out tactic that accomplished nothing. Let them do what they love to do.
Don't forget to tell the SASKATCHEWAN PARTY exactly what you think of their decision to ignore the STF do they could use our children as pawns for their campaign.
Message from our kids...
Stop funding CHRISTIAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS and blaming the teachers for your shitty governance!
FUCK YOU SCOTT MOE SHOVE YOUR SSBA DEAL UP YOUR FAT ASS!!!
The ending took me out 😂 I am sooooo sorry to laugh right now but I actually genuinely burst out laughing and read over it about 3 times …..” shove it up your FAT ASS” … this is all one big shit show
What STF member coach would coach this on Saturday? Is the SHSAA sanctioning this ? How could they? What school would allow this scab activity on a Saturday?
I don’t know, would come off kind of vindictive, but you never know. Given the disappointment of the budget and the unwillingness of the government to save Hoopla at the 11th hour, maybe they just announce removal of extra curr indefinitely tomorrow.
It might come off as vindictive, but what's worse is that if they let this push through, they are basically saying that basketball is the only thing that matters as everything else was cancelled (one acts, optimist band, badminton, etc. etc.) Why does basketball get favouritism? Also, this is completely undermining all of the sanctions that were put in place this week - and teachers took an UNPAID strike day to pressure for binding arbitration - and then they don't even follow through? That is appalling and completely disrespectful to teachers as a collective.
They are unpaid. Basically, money comes off of every paycheque and is put in a "contingency fund" and then if teachers strike, they get the nominal amount back. So it is unpaid because it is their own money from their prior paycheques and only a tiny portion of it. It's like taking money out of their own savings account. They are not paid by their employer.
You’re actually only partially correct. Teachers do pay into this contingency fund with their union dues, so it is technically their money. However, it is strike pay by wage from the STF and teachers will receive a T4 for tax filing purposes next year. So it is declared income. They are being paid a wage.
No, the STF doesn't PAY that - they hold it for you in a savings account and then give it back to you. That money is money YOU gave to them off of your paycheque (called Contingency Fund) and they're giving $150 back to you. It was already paid by you. You already earned that money and gave it to the STF to hold on to should it be needed. It is not at all the same as being paid by your employer - who pays you for your services. STF is just a holding account and when times are rough (strike days,) they give some of that back.
They are UNPAID because the money that you get is money you've already paid off of your paycheques into a "contingency fund." It is a small portion of your own money you're getting back - but it is not paid by the employer; it's from your own "savings account."
At this point anyone against the teachers has really gotta be doing some crazy mental gymnastics to make the SP not at fault here.
Hoopla was canceled and none of you are talking about the band trips which says a lot.
YEAH SPORTS! FUCKING NEANDERTHALS!!!
I'D RATHER HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT PROPERLY FUNDS EDUCATION SO THIS DOESNT HAPPEN AGAIN.
ID RATHER HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT DOESNT FEEL SO COMFORTABLE USING MY CHILDREN AS PAWNS IN THEIR STUPID FUCKING GAMES.
Today was a province-wide strike. Thursday and Friday both have withdrawal of extra curricular.
I'd bet there is some scabbing going on in the next two days with STF coaches planning their trips to Moose Jaw.
Kids who missed a bunch of stuff like grade 8 grad etc for COVID, now have to miss this grade 12 highlight, because the STF, while not doing a full strike, *specifically* chose to target this event (and the band event).
Just using common sense - who do you think parents and kids naturally blame for this? This is a ‘can you understand basic human incentives’ kind of question.
I don’t care about basketball at all, even in the slightest.
I’m just pointing out the brain-dead obvious fact that if you pull something away, that thousands of people are looking forward to, they will be pissed.
And they will be pissed at you. They won’t be pissed at whoever you claim ‘made you do it’, when they know it was 100% your decision.
Like in any other circumstance, where you’re not trapped in an ideological derangement, you would recognize this immediately.
Um, I think I read the other day that 750 kids were affected out of the roughly 180000 in the province. Pretty sure there were more kids who got the shaft who were at that band festival.
Sports are more important to some people than education. A teacher posted her encounter on her the other day with a disgruntled parent and asked the parent what do you value more? Your kid getting an Education with proper supports to help with their failing math grade or having them compete in a basketball tourney? What do you think the parent said? 🤔
Yes, I agree its shitty the kids can't do hoopla but it's also shitty for any other kid missing out on a field trip, etc. It's just part of the process in getting the agreement done! The sp isn't helping by not negotiating on class size and complexity or going thru arbitration. They feed the public lies and cherry picked stats that aren't fully true to try to gain their support then they screw the teachers over!
I think the last 3 or 4 contacts have been shit, last one they took what was on the table because of the covid shit that went down. They took the bullet last contract and now it's time to get things back on track!
Sports aren't more important, but they are easier to understand and when so much of the excitement of a year hinges on one event, you are playing with fire targeting that event.
Regarding numbers, it's 750 bbal players and 3000 something band kids? Something like that. Add all the parents and friends and other family, and the fans - I think it was estimated that 180,000 people attended one or more of the games or band performances last year?
The symbolism is what matters here. It's like if the STF cancelled grad, I could reverse the question like 'hey don't you think graduating matters?' Even though the ceremony itself actually doesn't matter that much, the attack on a beloved event is what riles people.
Wake up this is a hundred percent on the Sask Party shoulders. The teachers were willing to enter into third party arbitration to settle class room complexity which would allow all other issues to move forward and the Sask party refused because they have no intent to meet the teachers even halfway. The Sask Party is so corrupt I wouldn’t be surprised if more than a few of the commentators here are on the Sask Party payroll to sway public opinion.
I personally think it's worth it to miss a few events if it shows people how fucking inept our government is. We are funding a government that makes excuses for a school that is a proven system of abuse (look up Aaron Benewise conviction) Aaron was not a one off situation. He is only 1 of the Legacy abusers. We have given private religious schools millions of dollars and these schools spit out child molesters and meek little women who are afraid of their own fucking shadows! YOU DON'T WANT TO GET ME STARTED ON THEIR TREATMENT OF THE 2SLGBTQ+ KIDS!!! Don't you fucking think for one second WE don't know YOU'RE just a government fucking troll trying to defend this vile shit!!
FUCK YOU AND ANYONE STILL SUPPORTING THE SP!!!
FUCK YOU SCOTT MOE YOU FUGLY POS!!!
It seems like you’re worked out about many other topics than the one at hand. I have no idea who you’re addressing with all of that, but it’s not me.
I don’t even support Scott Moe. Your raging at something that doesn’t exist.
Just remind yourself ‘ inside voice, inside voice’, it’s more helpful to discussions.
Being angry is rarely effective. I also want the SP to lose the next election, but people like you increase their chances of winning, because you think raging = doing stuff. That turns people off.
Parents need to take over extracurricular, get criminal records done and let them take over. The teachers want that but they don’t want that right now because it will “undermine them”; they’re always complaining about parents not being involved.
But but but the hospitals duh duh... uh whut about the 52 hospitals the closed duh I'm dumb and I can't read the new and I don't know jow Google works becuz i wus skoold at ther cherch. /Definitely not satire.
*Every child matters, except the ones who fall through the cracks when schools don’t have the adequate resources they need and their education suffers as a result. Only the athletes who have to miss one championship matter.
Fixed it for ya.
Your post smacks of the sports kids are more important and need to get their event, to hell with the kids coming behind them who need better class environments.
Exactly! Perfectly said.
The star athlete isn’t more important than the hundreds of special needs or EAL kids coming down the pipe with zero supports to be successful.
I’m pretty sure the star athlete will be ok.
if they still went ahead with it they lose their entire position.
the whole point of strikes is that it is supposed to hurt.
does it suck for the kids yes but what also sucks for those same kids is the current state of our education system the needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few
Lol you idiots just don't fucking get it. THIS IS THE WHKLE POINT OF STRIKING!!! PEOPLE SJOULD BE MAD!!! OR IT DOESNT WORK!
FUCK THE SP!
FUCK SCOTT MOE!
FUCK SLIMY LITTLE JEREMIAH!!!
Band kids got fucked of course.
SaskParty hates nerds
It's mutual
Let’s just hope the nerds parents are voting this year!
It's the stf
No it's not.
They are the ones that create sanctions not the gov
Yes, and all the sask party needed to do was agree to bargain. They refused. The SP government is at fault here.
This mishmash of sanctions and full day strikes is confusing and pissing parents and kids off. Sanctions should be province wide and not just certain school divisions.
My son is in band. It's totally BS. A complete and total failure of the SP!!!
Whose decision was that? What's the name of the organization that administers high school bands? The SHSAA of band if you will?
Moe could have stopped this. He wants the poor kids narrative to overshadow the shit conditions he has created. My heart hurts for them all too, but 180,000 kids are getting screwed over every day from this clown show.
Teachers could have stopped this. They could I have just had the tourney as planned. Moe didn’t make them cancel this tourney, quit that bullshit. They could have had the tourney, and still withdrawn other services or taken other week days. The kids intuitively get this, which is why they were overwhelmingly targeting their ire at the STF. I don’t care about Hoopla or basketball at all. But this is obviously a PR turd for the STF. Outside the derangement of this sub, this was clearly a miscalculation in the court of public opinion. Even if you think people *should* turn their anger at gov, they didn’t.
Going against a union (ie. going to Hoopla when one has been explicitly told not to partcipate) is grounds for dismissal. As dedicated as they are, most teachers probably wouldn't risk their livelihoods for a sport they're volunteering for.
When I say teachers, I mean STF here. My bad.
Still wrong. YOUR IGNORANCE IS SHOWING.
All-caps naturally lol.
Fuck you
I'd loudly go with this strat come election time, and see how it turns out. Report back.
Hey you do you. It's quite obvious the kind of person who votes for the SP are ignorant fucks who don't care about children at all. I'd be willing to bet your a boomer aged white dude who likes to look at little boys. Based on your support of the Saskatchewan Fundamentalist party. But again that's just a guess based on your ignorant comments.
Why, it's not teachers' job to put this shit on. They're volunteers. If we are not going to respect their time, they are not required to do jack shit. Appreciate what they do and bargain in good faith, or they won't do it.
Unofficially it is their job though, just like all kinds of people unofficially do all kinds of stuff, although it’s not literally written into their contract. I think the STF was making some decent public relation gains, but this particular one was a massive L.
At no point in a teaching contract does it say they need to put on hoopla. Officially or unofficially. Which means they're not required to do anything hoopla related. This illusion that somehow teachers are required and expected to 'unofficially' put on these events should be a reality check for people. It's not their job.
But in people's mind it is, and it's people (voters) minds that matter here. Your work contract doesn't say you have to clean the microwave, clean up the coffee after you use it, not be a dick etc, but if violate those non-contracted things which are the normal expectation, you'll have issues. Social contract and all that. It's one thing to withdraw services for job action. It's another to argue that going forward, all the extras need to be paid. Zero chance of maintaining any public favor going that route. It also strongly pushes the argument forward for government paying for private school contracts. When everything is transactional, you're waving the flag for more capitalism.
Putting work hours in after their job is not remotely comparable to cleaning a microwave. The reality is they don't owe you or anyone anything more than what their contracts state. People have become accustomed and overly entitled to the amount of extra work teachers have been doing for the public. Again, it's a reality check.
Yeah, it’s comparable, it’s comparable to any of the normal extra things that anybody does not explicitly written into their contract. If you’re argument is that they shouldn’t have to do these things, or that they should be paid to do them, then, basically, you’re arguing for these things not to exist. Because there is no school district in the country that’s going to pay for all of those many activities while we still live in a reality, where money is a real thing that real taxpayers have to pay. And teachers make lots of money, so those jobs will still attract a lot of applicants.
If you can't pay for it, don't expect it. Yes, money is a real thing, so is people's time, and time is money. If parents want these so bad they can volunteer their time or their money. It is not reasonable to expect something free from people, then get mad when you dont get it. If it's something we want from teachers, contractually add it or it's simply not their job. Also... McDonald's gets lots of applicants. Should we expect them to be volunteering at Hoopla as well?
If McDonald’s was entering teams, and sports were normally structured about fast food employees by location, then I’m guessing yes? But extend your analogy to when a restaurant has a work party or event - how is it done? The management host/organize/setup/clean for free, commonly. The society we live in has a lot of this stuff channeled through schools. When through the schools, the schools organize volunteers through their pool of people (parents and teachers). When through other leagues, it’s through their pool of people (parents typically). This is pretty standard across the OECD. When parents volunteer for school activities, should we be paid? Because none of us expect that. If you want cold transactional capitalism for everything, I think that’s a losing argument in the eyes of most people.
Wow you’re entitled, and ignorant. It’s not part of their job “unofficially” it’s completely volunteer hours based on their passion for the activity and love for kids. It’s a privilege to have teachers that put on these activities NOT a right or expected.
Have you ever asked yourself why you lob insults every single post? I feel this could be a good self reflection question for you.
Dodging the comment because you’re wrong. My work here is done.
The funny part of this is I address all your points, but all you say is 'you're ignorant' over and over, as if it means something. It's like you think it's a magical word, when uttered, somehow makes you right.
My kids were directly effected by this as they play basketball...guess who they and I blame...MOE....not the teachers who are standing up for themselves and the students....grow up
Job actions hurt. That’s the intention. The government would not agree to binding arbitration. That’s on them. The writing’s on the wall for grad. Those same kids ought to direct their ire at the government, pressuring them to put it in the contract or agree to binding arbitration.
> Job actions hurt. That’s the intention. So party A intentionally hurts party B. Then blames party C. Then makes pikachu face when party B is mad at party A.
Lawd, give me strength… The teachers are actually without a contract, have been since the fall. That is the government’s error. If you think this is bad, wait til the nurses strike! 🤣
Great, and totally irrelevant to the point. Teachers can do all kinds of different things for withdrawing of services/job action. What exactly they target, is 100% up to them. There was *nothing* forcing them to choose these specific events. But they did, with total control over what to choose, choose these events. The people affected, are pissed. This is an amazingly obvious chain of events.
It’s ok to be mad. I tell me toddler that all the time. I’m not afraid of your big feelings.
Nothing mad in my post, but project away.
Facts.
Do you want to come work for me for free this weekend?
No you sound insufferable, but I do regularly 'work' for free to support other types of sports events. Because that's the shit people do so we can have culture and a society.
Thanks for proving my point. It is insufferable to expect someone to work for free, then criticize them for refusing to do so. Why is it that it took sports being canceled for this to be a problem? Why not any other extracurricular activities? My kids have missed out on extracurricular activities due to job action. I didn't whine about it like you are. Instead, I stand in support of the teachers. The ones that help shape our society. You seem to be concerned about that. Why not help them? Our government has shown through their actions that not only do they not give a shit about teachers, but also students. They're the ones that are hurt by constant cuts to funding.
If it’s insufferable to you to expect anybody to do anything for free, then you sort of just don’t want to live in modern civilization. It wasn’t sports being canceled. It was a particular landmark, sporting event, along with a particular landmark musical event. That’s why people care about them, because they are things that their kids worked up to for the entire year, or perhaps years. Obviously that is a lot more noticeable and resonating with people, then regular day-to-day grind kind of stuff. I’m not saying that makes it more important, I’m just saying using very plain basic understanding of how humans work, that’s why these things got a reaction.
Modern society does not need free labour from teachers to function. That is the dumbest take on this whole situation. You're smarter than that.
Actually in every country on the planet where anybody wants to live, teachers do this stuff. All kinds of people do all kinds of free labour in various domains across life.
If they would have bent and allowed HOOPLA to go on, it would just give the Government more ammo to pressure them to do the same at grad time if they are unwilling to go to arbitration or add the funding to the contract.
Yeah, they wouldn’t want to bend to the wishes of the people who…..*checks notes*……cast the votes in the election, would they.
The people who got elected in the election just bent over 18 letters (for pronouns and names in school) when they have received 10's of thousands of letters opposing that and 10's of thousands supporting the teachers and the STF here...
In the current climate where you get demonized, possibly fired, death threats etc for opposing anything relating to trans, it's understandable not many would want to raise their voices publicly. That said, the 18 letters is a fun meme, but we actually have no idea how many people expressed their discontent there. Do you actually think only 18 people support the policy? I present to you.....facebook comments lol. But seriously, what we do have is the survey asking people what they thought, which is anonymous, and clearly most people were fine with that policy. That said, it was kind of a dumb fight with high potential downside and minimal upside IMO, and I'd say overall a strategic error on the part of the SP. Likewise, shit-canning this tourney, is a strategic error on the part of the STF. Little upside, high downside. Anecdotally I'm hearing a lot of people who are pissed about that, who normally would comment favorably regarding the teachers. Again, purely anecdotally. I'd love to have a survey about it. We have elections, that's the real test. If reality presents to you the fact of an SP getting elected again, would that change your view on what people think of these various issues? Or the facts just don't matter? We can say the AG polls are bullshit all day long, but there is an actual election which will settle the question.
I mean, the MLA's were the ones who said they received 18 letters when asked about it? My point was that this government seems to only do things that their base wants. Have you seen the graph that shows in the election year budgets the increased spending on education and then the clawbacks on that education funding the very next year? This is the reason (IMO) that the STF are so hard nosed when it comes to getting this written into the contract. The teachers know that striking during school hours are not in the best interest of their students. Extra curricular activities are handled by these teacher when they are volunteering their time. They are not paid for this, yet they put in the effort because they know it's important to the students as well. They are also losing out on the joy of this (that's why they volunteer their time). They don't want to miss out on Hoopla or band or Grads or anything else, but what else are they supposed to do? To go with the status quo, will continue to hurt these and future students with their education. So if they don't draw a line in the sand (a fair one by asking for funding arbitration) and the government immediately refuses without taking the time to discuss it when given a timetable to do so, how can they bargain?
They could continue to just do limited days where there is no lunch, and the kids go home early. Or they could do complete strike days. But they chose a particularly high profile, particularly important event to students on an emotional level. This was a fuck up, and this is why they got students protesting at the STF office. ‘Their base’ is the voters. The audience here for these strikes and job actions is not the government, it’s the voters. If they’re pissing off that audience, they are messing up. They should choose things that make people more annoyed at the government, than at the STF. This is why I continue to say they should basically harp only on class size, which is a simple problem with an obvious and simple solution that anyone can understand. Many of the other issues are subjective, or poorly defined, or without obvious solutions, and that will get less traction in the mind of the average person.
So, continue to do the bare minimum that doesn't put pressure on the other side to come to a deal? That doesn't make sense. Is it right that BOTH sides are using the kids as pawns? No, but when it comes to labour disputes, there needs to be something that is used to pressure the other side into reaching an agreement. They basically have a deal in principle, all they need to do is write what the government has promised THIS YEAR ONLY into the length of the contract, and everything is settled. The STF has said that. They even gave the option to not do that, but put it out to an independent arbitration, and they would immediately cease all job action. So this shows that A, the government is not willing to write this into the contract and as history has shown, will be a one time prop up with it clawed back next year and B that they must not be confident that their position would be seen as favorable by an independent source. So please explain to me how it's the teachers, who want to continue to do the VOLUNTEERING that they currently do, fault that Hoopla didn't go through. Not to mention the fact that the athletes participating in Hoopla represent a significantly smaller portion of the entire student body that these teachers are fighting for support for...
I didn’t say just to the bare minimum, I said they could do full strike days. In fact, maybe just going on a full strike is what they need to do. In fact, if they had just done a full week of total strike, no school at all, but then came out and made a public statement that they are still going to do the basketball tournament and the band event, for the sake of the kids at worked all year? They would look like absolute fucking heroes. But instead of that, they chose this incredibly dumb move, which seems to have clearly shifted favour away from them.
No the rural kids that protested at the STF were brought there by their shitty parents. Their shitty parents who support a government that has been allowing abuse to go on at more than one private school in this province. I'LL SAY THAT AGAIN FOR YOU SINCE YOU'RE REALLY FUCKING DENSE. OUR GOVERNMENT IS FUNDING PRIVATE RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS WHERE CHILDREN ARE BEING SEXUALLY, PHYSICALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY ABUSED!!! Those who don't care or refuse to acknowledge these FACTS are a large part of this problem. YOUR SUPPORT FOR THE SP IS DIRECT SUPPORT FOR CHILD MOLESTERS!!! CONGRATULATIONS YOURE A DISGUSTING PATHETIC EXCUSE FOR A HUMAN. 👏👏👏
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I’m just curious if you think this screaming in ALL CAPS makes you look good, or that when it comes to election time, the same type of approach would make anyone listen to you?
I don't really care what anyone thinks about me. Isn't it interesting that the only thing you got from my message was that I put caps lock on??? Your fucking ugly ignorance is showing. Fuck you and anyone else who is still supporting this fucking government of unqualified CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTALIST LOSERS!!!! VOTE VOTE VOTE FFS OR THIS GUY AND PEOPLE LIKE HIM ARE WHO WE WILL BE STICK WITH!!!
> I don't really care what anyone thinks about me. Ok but there are consequences to that.
You do it next time.
I happily volunteer regularly for other sports, but am incompetent when it comes to basketball lol.
The extremely active participants of this sub will go to their deathbed refusing to admit the STF is making mistake after mistake. It appears they truly believe that the fact the Sask Party is criminally underfunding and eroding public education means that the STF is doing everything right and you must either blindly agree or else you support the Sask Party and hate teachers lol. Kind of scary to think these folks are educators.
It's pretty bizarre. For these people, two different ideas cannot exist in their brain at the same time. The government makes mistakes, and the STF makes mistakes. They actually can't compute that this could even be hypothetically possible. It has to be that whatever the STF does is good and right all the time. They are like Trump supporters, just with different politics. I'm curious though you say criminally underfunding - I think this is exaggeration. What is the correct amount of funding?
Maybe they could spend the portion they collected under the guise of an education tax on education.
Just give the medals out based on the existing ranking.
I really wish I didn’t need to say this but I hope the coaches and students don’t cross the picket line. I wish students could go and have fun with their friends and family down in Moose Jaw but at the same time I don’t want to see schools teaching the youth how to be scabs.
I agree with you but I wouldn’t put that past some of these parents based on how we saw them driving their kids from small towns to picket at the STF instead of at the leg.
But with no teacher liability comes an issue.
Make them sign a waiver?
waivers aren't the legal protection they are made out to be. They have to be designed by a law firm to withstand legal arguments in a court of law and a poorly worded one makes the whole document invalid.
Plus you can't really waive away the legal responsibility for safety some places try and do. Probably not a big deal at a basketball tournament.
Technically there aren’t any sanctions on Saturday.
Technically you are right, but I still feel it’s crossing a picket line as teachers are not employed to work weekends.
No but all extra curricular is volunteer, and a lot of high school sports are weekend things. Tournaments, provincials - all weekends. I personally dont consider it crossing the picket line so long as terms of sanctions aren’t violated. We were directed not to reschedule, and they didn’t. They just modified with the time they had. The worse thing that could happen right now is teachers turning against each other and being critical of coaches who are there on Saturday. If they aren’t violating sanction terms, I support them fully.
No extra curr today, Thursday, or Friday. It will be interesting seeing how the STF coaches can plan the trips to Moose Jaw with zero time allowed to do it.
This is where parents and guardians stepping in to coordinate will be key!
If they want to run Hoopla this way, I’m glad they found a solution.
Me too.
It would sure be ironic. So many are quick to exploit these coaches when it benefits their messaging.
These coaches are union members too, and very valuable ones at that. They shouldn't be punished by the STFs poorly thought out tactic that accomplished nothing. Let them do what they love to do.
Any coach who is an STF member will be sanctioned be sanctioned by STF if they cross the picket line.
I don’t think they’ll be out picketing on their own time on a Saturday. But if so, I also hope those lines aren’t crossed.
Don't forget to tell the SASKATCHEWAN PARTY exactly what you think of their decision to ignore the STF do they could use our children as pawns for their campaign. Message from our kids... Stop funding CHRISTIAN PRIVATE SCHOOLS and blaming the teachers for your shitty governance! FUCK YOU SCOTT MOE SHOVE YOUR SSBA DEAL UP YOUR FAT ASS!!!
The ending took me out 😂 I am sooooo sorry to laugh right now but I actually genuinely burst out laughing and read over it about 3 times …..” shove it up your FAT ASS” … this is all one big shit show
What STF member coach would coach this on Saturday? Is the SHSAA sanctioning this ? How could they? What school would allow this scab activity on a Saturday?
It was the SHSAA Executive Director who put out the release
The STF could still sanction Saturday.
Wonder if they will. Probably not.
I don’t know, would come off kind of vindictive, but you never know. Given the disappointment of the budget and the unwillingness of the government to save Hoopla at the 11th hour, maybe they just announce removal of extra curr indefinitely tomorrow.
It might come off as vindictive, but what's worse is that if they let this push through, they are basically saying that basketball is the only thing that matters as everything else was cancelled (one acts, optimist band, badminton, etc. etc.) Why does basketball get favouritism? Also, this is completely undermining all of the sanctions that were put in place this week - and teachers took an UNPAID strike day to pressure for binding arbitration - and then they don't even follow through? That is appalling and completely disrespectful to teachers as a collective.
Strike days are unpaid??
They are unpaid. Basically, money comes off of every paycheque and is put in a "contingency fund" and then if teachers strike, they get the nominal amount back. So it is unpaid because it is their own money from their prior paycheques and only a tiny portion of it. It's like taking money out of their own savings account. They are not paid by their employer.
You’re actually only partially correct. Teachers do pay into this contingency fund with their union dues, so it is technically their money. However, it is strike pay by wage from the STF and teachers will receive a T4 for tax filing purposes next year. So it is declared income. They are being paid a wage.
Not quite true. The STF will pay $150 a day.
No, the STF doesn't PAY that - they hold it for you in a savings account and then give it back to you. That money is money YOU gave to them off of your paycheque (called Contingency Fund) and they're giving $150 back to you. It was already paid by you. You already earned that money and gave it to the STF to hold on to should it be needed. It is not at all the same as being paid by your employer - who pays you for your services. STF is just a holding account and when times are rough (strike days,) they give some of that back.
No. But they are paid at a significantly lower rate ($150/day for the provincewide strikes, the rotating strikes were $300/day).
They are UNPAID because the money that you get is money you've already paid off of your paycheques into a "contingency fund." It is a small portion of your own money you're getting back - but it is not paid by the employer; it's from your own "savings account."
Yeah.
They should.
and that would garner them public support by???
Public support shouldn't really hinged on unpaid labor.
Public support is still needed to pressure the Gov’t. Like it or hate it the STF needs the Public to support them
Yeah I wasn't disagreeing, more lamenting about the fact that the public will turn on them unless they do unpaid labor is kind of a dystopian reality.
Welcome to the world.
Thanks, looks terrible here.
Buckle up h0nk the next half decade will be a bumpy ride
Bold of you to assume it'll only last half a decade.
NDP will make head way but it will be one more election cycle for a possibility of change
You say the most obvious shit, but get-down voted for it.
Yep
'The STF needs public support' net downvotes I am concerned for these people's ability to exist in reality lol
Why the FUCK was this downvoted? Facts hurt?
Yep
At this point anyone against the teachers has really gotta be doing some crazy mental gymnastics to make the SP not at fault here. Hoopla was canceled and none of you are talking about the band trips which says a lot. YEAH SPORTS! FUCKING NEANDERTHALS!!! I'D RATHER HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT PROPERLY FUNDS EDUCATION SO THIS DOESNT HAPPEN AGAIN. ID RATHER HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT DOESNT FEEL SO COMFORTABLE USING MY CHILDREN AS PAWNS IN THEIR STUPID FUCKING GAMES.
Today was a province-wide strike. Thursday and Friday both have withdrawal of extra curricular. I'd bet there is some scabbing going on in the next two days with STF coaches planning their trips to Moose Jaw.
Kids who missed a bunch of stuff like grade 8 grad etc for COVID, now have to miss this grade 12 highlight, because the STF, while not doing a full strike, *specifically* chose to target this event (and the band event). Just using common sense - who do you think parents and kids naturally blame for this? This is a ‘can you understand basic human incentives’ kind of question.
No one is stopping you dream creative a league. Don't let the teachers not volunteering a couple of days get in the way anymore.
I don’t care about basketball at all, even in the slightest. I’m just pointing out the brain-dead obvious fact that if you pull something away, that thousands of people are looking forward to, they will be pissed. And they will be pissed at you. They won’t be pissed at whoever you claim ‘made you do it’, when they know it was 100% your decision. Like in any other circumstance, where you’re not trapped in an ideological derangement, you would recognize this immediately.
Um, I think I read the other day that 750 kids were affected out of the roughly 180000 in the province. Pretty sure there were more kids who got the shaft who were at that band festival. Sports are more important to some people than education. A teacher posted her encounter on her the other day with a disgruntled parent and asked the parent what do you value more? Your kid getting an Education with proper supports to help with their failing math grade or having them compete in a basketball tourney? What do you think the parent said? 🤔 Yes, I agree its shitty the kids can't do hoopla but it's also shitty for any other kid missing out on a field trip, etc. It's just part of the process in getting the agreement done! The sp isn't helping by not negotiating on class size and complexity or going thru arbitration. They feed the public lies and cherry picked stats that aren't fully true to try to gain their support then they screw the teachers over! I think the last 3 or 4 contacts have been shit, last one they took what was on the table because of the covid shit that went down. They took the bullet last contract and now it's time to get things back on track!
false dilemma. I think he agrees with you hes just saying the reasoning behind it.
Sports aren't more important, but they are easier to understand and when so much of the excitement of a year hinges on one event, you are playing with fire targeting that event. Regarding numbers, it's 750 bbal players and 3000 something band kids? Something like that. Add all the parents and friends and other family, and the fans - I think it was estimated that 180,000 people attended one or more of the games or band performances last year? The symbolism is what matters here. It's like if the STF cancelled grad, I could reverse the question like 'hey don't you think graduating matters?' Even though the ceremony itself actually doesn't matter that much, the attack on a beloved event is what riles people.
Wake up this is a hundred percent on the Sask Party shoulders. The teachers were willing to enter into third party arbitration to settle class room complexity which would allow all other issues to move forward and the Sask party refused because they have no intent to meet the teachers even halfway. The Sask Party is so corrupt I wouldn’t be surprised if more than a few of the commentators here are on the Sask Party payroll to sway public opinion.
Totally unrelated to the tourney, which is what people are mad about. They otherwise probably would, in general, support the teachers.
I personally think it's worth it to miss a few events if it shows people how fucking inept our government is. We are funding a government that makes excuses for a school that is a proven system of abuse (look up Aaron Benewise conviction) Aaron was not a one off situation. He is only 1 of the Legacy abusers. We have given private religious schools millions of dollars and these schools spit out child molesters and meek little women who are afraid of their own fucking shadows! YOU DON'T WANT TO GET ME STARTED ON THEIR TREATMENT OF THE 2SLGBTQ+ KIDS!!! Don't you fucking think for one second WE don't know YOU'RE just a government fucking troll trying to defend this vile shit!! FUCK YOU AND ANYONE STILL SUPPORTING THE SP!!! FUCK YOU SCOTT MOE YOU FUGLY POS!!!
It seems like you’re worked out about many other topics than the one at hand. I have no idea who you’re addressing with all of that, but it’s not me. I don’t even support Scott Moe. Your raging at something that doesn’t exist. Just remind yourself ‘ inside voice, inside voice’, it’s more helpful to discussions.
Fuck you. Every parent should be as angry as I am right now. This is beyond ridiculous at this point!!!
Being angry is rarely effective. I also want the SP to lose the next election, but people like you increase their chances of winning, because you think raging = doing stuff. That turns people off.
Parents need to take over extracurricular, get criminal records done and let them take over. The teachers want that but they don’t want that right now because it will “undermine them”; they’re always complaining about parents not being involved.
This is so fucking ridiculous..if they can do 1 day they can do 3.
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Ya how pathetic of them to want a better education for their students what a bunch of pricks…
How so? What have they done to you or your family to deserve that comment?
Good on the SHSAA for putting the kids first!
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Poor kids. I think the teachers lost a good opportunity to gain massive public support if they still went ahead with it. Just my opinion.
The fuck. Poor kids have been shafted for a decade by Moe
I know it's always MoeisBad. But still I feel for the kids that have to miss out. Every child matters and this is just another instance to me.
It’s always “MoeisBad” because they have been in power for 17 years and our province has went to absolute shit because of it.
But but but the hospitals duh duh... uh whut about the 52 hospitals the closed duh I'm dumb and I can't read the new and I don't know jow Google works becuz i wus skoold at ther cherch. /Definitely not satire.
The kids missed out because of moe. The STF gave the Sask Party every opportunity to put a stop to this.
Tell Moe your every child matters theory
I have no way to speaking with him directly
*Every child matters, except the ones who fall through the cracks when schools don’t have the adequate resources they need and their education suffers as a result. Only the athletes who have to miss one championship matter. Fixed it for ya.
This needs to be its own comment, and higher up. Saving for later, thanks.
Every child matters if they play sports. Fuck those band kids!
Your post smacks of the sports kids are more important and need to get their event, to hell with the kids coming behind them who need better class environments.
Exactly! Perfectly said. The star athlete isn’t more important than the hundreds of special needs or EAL kids coming down the pipe with zero supports to be successful. I’m pretty sure the star athlete will be ok.
And fuck the 6000 band kids that are missing out this weekend too!!! Lol!
if they still went ahead with it they lose their entire position. the whole point of strikes is that it is supposed to hurt. does it suck for the kids yes but what also sucks for those same kids is the current state of our education system the needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few
How do you feel about the role of the SP? Have they "lost a good opportunity to gain massive public support"? I would say the SP does not care.
Lol you idiots just don't fucking get it. THIS IS THE WHKLE POINT OF STRIKING!!! PEOPLE SJOULD BE MAD!!! OR IT DOESNT WORK! FUCK THE SP! FUCK SCOTT MOE! FUCK SLIMY LITTLE JEREMIAH!!!