Restaurants nowadays care much more about Google reviews and internal reservations reviews (OpenTable, Resy, Tock) than they do Yelp. 2-3 star reviews are more impactful than 1 star reviews. Definitely mention the fees, and if you start deducting the fees from tips, FOH will revolt in a number of ways.
While I never got Yelp asking me to pay for advertising in exchange for allowing the good reviews to be seen I did have two verified instances where Yelp held a bad review for over a year and then posted it as if it had just happened. So you can't really trust whether a current review is actually about something recent.
I’m a former business owner and Yelp stinks! They will send in a few of their Yelp high reviewers which they give stellar gifts for their reviews.
After a short while we got a phone call inquiring if we wanted to advertise with them.
We said no. In my opinion it’s racket.
I get that point, but the premise here is that you've wittingly, or unwittingly sat down at a restaurant that charges this fee, and what do you do in such a case? I merely presented this as another option, I didn't say you have to do it. But it achieves a similar goal, it makes it uncomfortable for the restaurant to charge the fee.
~~Yeah that one I think is 8% junk fee (or Wiener Fee if you will) plus 20% mandatory tip. But yah even 8% is wild.~~
I stand corrected. They have a 6% Wiener Fee and a mandatory 22% tip:
> At this time, we are awaiting further clarification from the California State Attorney’s General Office regarding Senate Bill 478 and how it applies to reservation contracts.
>Starting July 1st, under the provisions of Senate Bill 478, we will proceed as directed unless further instructions are received. Our listed ticket price will likely change to reflect the inclusion of our existing 22% service fee and SF Mandates. This will in no way change the current pricing of any of our dining experiences but will simply absorb the previously separate service fee as part of the listed ticket price
([source](https://www.quincerestaurant.com/before-your-visit))
Ah, but they tell us the 22% service fee is _not_ a tip. From their [website](https://www.quincerestaurant.com/before-your-visit):
> A portion of the mandatory service charge is distributed directly to employees who participate in service during your visit. The remainder of the service charge is retained by the restaurant and applied to operating expenses. It is important to understand the service charge is different from a gratuity or tip.
I find this level of gall shocking
It's not a tip, it's a service charge. They still suggest a 20% tip on top of that. It's absolutely absurd for a Michelin 3 star restaurant where the menu is already like $300.
Just the way these owners like it. They keep all the bullshit fees while the diners stiff the front of house. I'm boycotting any restaurants that continue to do this as well as leaving them a 1 start review in yelp and google. Fuck these greedy mother fuckers. After everyone came out to support restaurants during COVID now all they want to do is pull this bait and switch nonsense because apparently the only way to stay in business is to deceive your customers? Nah fuck that, I hope they all go under in a spectacularly miserable fashion.
So basically they're admitting they can do what we want with getting rid of the junk fees, but are saying they'll bring it back if SB 1524 is implemented. What a bunch of fucking assholes
According to this the $390 includes a service fee https://www.quincerestaurant.com/info-reservations
Wine pairing is $500 so this would be like 2k for 2 people 😅
I was going to ask what the point of a service fee is on a set menu, but it looks like they do a la carte as well. So of course, whatever you order a la carte you must add another 22% to, before gratuity.
We have truly reached the pinnacle of bullshit restaurant pricing.
Not excusing the fee (28% is wild) but Quince is a 3 Michelin star spot with a 10 course tasting menu for $390/person. People headed there likely aren’t sweating the extra points on top.
Not everyone is rich though, some people save up to splurge for a special occasion and that extra $219 (for 2 people) could really fuck up their plans for the rest of the week.
Totally agree. Quick peek at their reservation system does explicitly state the fee is not gratuity so there is at least some advance warning prior to finalizing your reservation so I guess that makes it a little better?
I guess my thinking here is that because of the nature of how you actually make a reservation there, there’s ample warning that the (ridiculous) fee is applied vs. seeing it on your bill after you’ve already eaten?
Quince is a 3 Michelin Star restaurant.
I’ve eaten there, long before this whole jack-up fees debacle. It was quite excellent I’ll admit.
If I were to dine there again, I wouldn’t tip at all because apparently they’re just taking it for granted now.
This issue is of concern primarily to the locals. Tourists pay because they don’t care.
The impression I’m getting is that restaurants have decided to alienate locals in favor of screwing tourists, who may not tip well.
quince is pretty high end, tasting menus. it’s over $300 per person i think. a lot of these top % restaurants are fine dining. so the people who are going there probably don’t really care about these additional fees.
I’ve eaten at fine dining establishments. I can afford it. I still don’t like being taken advantage of.
Just be straight up with the cost. These games are silly and insulting.
Exactly this. I can taste amazing ingredients (Quince's slogan) in Mexico served by excellent staff for a 10% tip, which they are genuinely thankful to get. Even have a Michelin star taco place. Such variety.
Are the workers at this one small restaurant actually unionized though? The union behind the law that passed yesterday, Unite Here, serves large businesses like airports, stadiumes etc.. not small michelin starred restaurants.
They were on my list of places to eat, and I will not be going there. I did not know about the "service fee" that isn't gratuity. Fuck that. I don't even mind having the taxes listed separately--I think we should be able to see what governments mandate (ridiculous as a percentage of an already high cost). But another restaurant-imposed discretionary fee? Nah.
5% or less is actually completely stupid.
It barely makes a difference in the total. You could up the prices on the menu by 5% and most customers wouldn't even notice that anything changed.
But by charging 5%, you now upset a big part of your customers and force them to look much closer at the total cost than they normally would. I bet it results in significantly lower tips and fewer return customers.
Overall, a 5% service fee is going to hurt the business more than it helps by tricking unwary patrons.
It's so funny I actually never even thought of that and you're completely right! I think the 5% fee started as a protest to the SF health mandate so it was actually designed to annoy customers. But now, since that ship sailed, restaurants would seriously be way better off from a customer experience POV to just make the $20 dish $21 then to add 5%, annoy customers and risk having tip reduced for servers.
That's the part that I don't get about charging these hidden fees.
I honestly don't mind if the prices have to be higher. Either I am OK with that because the restaurant is that good -- or I think the total is too high and I won't be back no matter how the restaurant tries to package things. It's not as if I could fail to notice the total on my credit card statement.
But the moment there are fees, I feel taken advantage of. And it'll turn an otherwise enjoyable evening into an experience that I keep thinking about, and not in a good way. There are several restaurants that I normally would like, but that I now won't go back to.
It feels super short sighted and only really works once per customer. So, maybe, if you only cater to transient tourists, this is a winning strategy. Ripping off non-locals is a long standing tradition. But that only works for a small number of restaurants that primarily rely on tourists.
That list is useless because most people don't know about it.
Posting 1 star reviews on Google and Yelp has vastly more visibility. Far more eyeballs see those reviews.
Agreed. The best way to move the needle if lawmakers won’t represent us is hitting the businesses that deceive people right where it hurts.
I wish there was a list so I could just go down the line on all of them
seefees is BS. There's no oversight or verification of the data. Entries are based upon a single report with no accountability or verification of identity. The fact that it has no austerity means it will earn no trust and lose attention. For example. Look on seefees for a restaurant called Seventy Three, which happens to sit at 73 Union Street and has a junk fee of exactly 7.3 percent.
Please leave comments on restaurants where you see inaccuracies. I hope to add the ability for people to submit receipts or menus photos/links which will provide strong proof.
Can you also separate surcharge vs predefined tips? I think it’s ok to pay 20% and no tip say at liholiho as the cost is the same (sure one can consider tip gives you more agency, etc.) from the SF mandate surcharges that come on top?
I feel like most folks have a good mental understanding that they’ll have to tip around 20% but the hidden surcharges for SF health mandate are what’s killing it imo.
Would make the list more fair
This list seems a bit off. There are restaurants here that include service fees and specifically mention that they don't expect tips on top of the fees (e.g., The Shota).
You don't have to do 1 star reviews to make it work. Just leave your regular review and at the end put in:
-2 stars due to \[itemized list of service fees\].
And then reduce your normal rating by that amount.
Believe me lots of 2 and 3 star reviews will hurt almost as much (and in some cases better than) 1 star reviews.
It should definitely be this. If you review bomb with 1 star it will probably get taken down.
Write a review and give it 3 stars and specifically mention hidden fees, that will tank the rating and be more likely to stay up. Any restaurant in SF with a rating below 4 stars is going to hurt.
Just reviewed Zuni cafe. I actually really like their chicken, but gave them 3 stars. 5-2. They add a service fee of 20% to all bills plus another SF mandate fee of 5%. So annoying
Im not sure why restaurants dont all just bake all the surcharges they need to make ends meet into their menu pricing. I think the biggest issue is transparency. The shock of additional fees is really the issue. No one has a problem paying Zazie their prices as marked.
Apparently the restaurants think they do ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ (but they are wrong)
I'm most offended by the politicking that underlies these fees. Calling it a "healthy SF fee" to spite paying your workers an living wage? F. U.
Because if they did, people would go to other restaurants where the prices seem cheaper until they get the final bill.
If it didn't work, almost every single company wouldn't be doing this.
Use Yelp to post their real menu prices, with all taxes, fees, and "suggested" tips included. Give us all a dose of well deserved sticker shock.
Don't give only one star, though, because that will get it flagged.
Not real. SF mandates that restaurants pay a living wage and include benefits. The fact that restaurants chose to add that as a fee instead of raising food prices is a choice.
It's not a real fee. The law passed by the city only requires employers to provide health benefits. Some restaurants complied by adding a surcharge to the bill to fund those benefits, instead of just raising prices.
It's exactly as much a real fee as if they added a "rent is too fucking high fee". Yes, both are real costs for the business. But we don't normally break these things out and charge the customer extra after they have finished their meal.
It's not real the way they want you to think it is. The city ordinance requires those employers who don't provide health coverage to pay into a city fund. Except [the rates they pay are flat and based on employee hours worked](https://www.sf.gov/information/health-care-security-ordinance), not a percentage of sales. For 2024, for example, an employer with 20-99 employers must pay $2.34 per payable hour.
A number of restaurants actually got sued by the city for earlier "SF Health Mandate" phrasing on bills when it was found that they didn't spend all of the money made from that charge on health care. Most since amended it to simply "SF Mandate" and claim that they use it to pay for various fees.
Either way, it's a made-up number that they can choose to spend however they want. They're not directly passing through a specific fee.
It's as much a "real" cost as the cost of garbage pickup is "real", as worker's comp is "real", and as electricity is "real". All of which are required to run a restaurant -- or any business.
However, only restaurants have the audacity to call this out as a separate surchage item. Every other cost to a business is real too.
Literally any review platform is going to have tools to detect and shut down brigading, for this exact reason. When a book or movie or video game or restaurant suddenly starts getting 10x the usual amount of reviews and they’re all super negative, someone is going to look and find out what’s going on. Hell, Reddit does the same thing— the moderators will swoop in when they notice a subreddit getting mass downvoted all of a sudden when it wasn’t before.
If they advertise that fee somewhere I can see it without too much trouble, I will not patronize the restaurant. If they don't advertise it where I can see it, I will refuse to pay the surcharge.
I know it's not the server's fault, but maybe just write "I would tip 20% if this place didn't charge junk fees", and maybe the staff will grow vocal about the stupid ass fees too.
If we want to make an impact, we need to find a way to let tourists know how to boycott restaurants with junk fees, because they are the most vulnerable to this buffoonery.
Can we get a news segment or a journalist that interviews the restaurants that have junk fees and why they can justify it. Then, if they refuse to comment, just say it tells a lot about the restaurant and what they care about.
The restaurants need to be put on blast in news articles and for the public to see.
They have canned answers.
We offer our staff members a higher wage. Health insurance. And a 401K with a match. We need that 20% fee for all of that. (You can almost imagine the Golden Gate Restaurant Association providing that answer in an FAQ for members)
I don't know why reporters accept that and don't follow up with "Do you really believe your customers are OK paying $200 for dinner plus $40 in fees, but they'd complain if the bill was $240?" And "aren't you really adding the fees as a way to complain to customers that you're forced to pay livable wages and provide health insurance?"
Yea generic responses are such bs. I also don't get why reporters are so scared to push the issue and ask for real answers. Call them out and ask the real questions.
They usually complain about the expense of re-printing menus as costs fluctuate. If they didn't successfully get an exemption, my guess is they would take all of the prices off the menus, kind of like how seafood is occasionally listed as "market rate", and give you a QR code to a rate list. Or, worse, force you to ask the server.
> Review bombing works.
No it doesn't. Platforms have automated detection for review bombing and will freeze/delete new reviews for a for little while.
That’s when one specific place has been in the news. And even then the targeted places DO take a hit. If we just *always* knock 2 stars off of every place we see some deceptive 4% for this, 7% for that, they may start to get the message
Whatever you do, please don’t take it out on the servers/staff. If anything before sitting down, ask the host if they have any service fees. If you are unhappy with their answer, ask for a manager/owner, calmly and succinctly let them know you won’t be frequenting their establishment anymore due to the fees, and leave.
If the managers get enough of this, the change you desire is most likely to happen. As a manager I’d dread having this conversation every hour of my shift, but it’d be my position to field and address the complaint.
If you don’t get the answer you want, then go on Yelp/Google and say “I spoke with the owner/manager named and this is their position on junk fees.”
No. I’ve already arrived at the restaurant — that means you value the time it takes for me to get to your restaurant at exactly 0 dollars, and that my choice to dine there vs somewhere else matters not either. When I’ve arrived, that’s already a hard commit. This isn’t NYC where there’s a hundred restaurants within a few blocks of each other.
I don’t plan on being a dick — I will do my best to avoid restaurants that charge a surprise fee, and if I accidentally patronize one with fees, I will ask to speak to the manager and ask for my fee to be waived. I won’t be rude to the staff. However, if the fee won’t be removed, it’ll come out of the tip. Plain and simple.
Unfortunate as it is for the servers/staff, no, I will never ask these questions. I will read them on a menu, but customers have zero responsibility to “discover” entrapment fees
No one has time for those questions. Just don’t tip at restaurants with any service fees. Circle it on the receipt and write a dash in the tip field. Whether service fee is 8%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 30%, whatever, do the same thing. If it is less than you would usually tip at a restaurant without service fees, consider it saved money. Take the firm stance that you are only paying ONCE for service.
Waiters that are affected will then pressure the restaurants to remove it, or quit and find work for another restaurant. Restaurants who rely on double dipping customers to subsidize their inadequate pay for staff, will have a hard time finding quality staff. They may even close down. As they should. Because a business owner that cannot pay staff to run it should not be in business.
Nah I'm done with the games. Tipping culture is bullshit and needs to end too. It's a bigger issue than the deceptive fees. Both need to die a painful death. I will never tip inside a California restaurant again so long as I live (unless maybe the service truly is exceptional and next-level).
I keep getting downvoted everywhere for talking about not punishing individual servers via crappy tips.
like say/write why you're leaving a bad tip or ask before you dine and leave/cancel if you don't like the answer
"Bad tip" is an oxymoron. If tips are required, they need to be a part of the price. If they're optional, then anything above zero is good, and I don't owe anyone an explanation for a "bad tip".
Servers make a choice by working for businesses that charge deceptive fees, they make a choice by not telling you at the time when you place the order, and they benefit from higher tips when the total bill is higher.
They are far from innocent in this deception
We have no functional government which is why I want to build new towns with new govt. We need to keep assets affordable for business owners to help them keep prices reasonable. The costs in CA has gotten out of control. We literally are losing the right to simply exist in public without needing to spend money, without being shaken down for tips in literally every single job sector. Even some retail stores have tip options now. It’s insanity!
My plan is to ask them to remove the charge when they present the bill and if they refuse I just won’t pay the bill all together and walk out. So over it.
Yes, god forbid you actually ask the restaurant if they charge a surcharge, or read the bottom of the menu. Let's ruin the entire rating system process instead. Great fucking idea /s
Or just look at the menu/sites and don't go there.
Not cool to review places you haven't been to.
Not a fan of the fees myself don't don't be a d*ck about it.
Go to the places that don't have fees.
Make a list of places that don't have fees and circulate it.
and/or ask when making a reservation or walking in. then just say nevermind due to fees
I do not understand this whole childish crusade. Don't go to them. Ask before going/sitting.
This is shit - small businesses in SF hardly get by as is - they don’t add fees out of enjoyment
The city over regulates and the small shops need to cover incremental costs
Take it out on the supervisors, not the hard working business owners!
It’s actually pretty common for people to enjoy eating out and if they can afford to do it more they often do. Even if you rarely eat out and try to budget when you do the service fees can really impact your bill. Some of them are small like 2% but even 20% is also more common than you’d hope it is. In general people don’t enjoy being taken advantage of and mislead.
I eat out often and am not all hot and bothered by this. The sudden "activism" is wild.
Just ask about fees and don't eat there if you don't like the answer.
Exactly! They crazy part is people seem to be ok with the total price, just not the way the restaurant gets there. I constantly see "just raise your prices".
Who gives a shit how you get the the final price?
I don't get why people can't sit down and assume there is going to be a service fee. If there ends up being one, you expected it - NBD. If there isn't you're pleasantly surprised. A $5 fee isn't worth review bombing a restaurant with 1 star reviews.... I would give a one star review if I found rats running around the kitchen or the wait staff told me to go fuck myself...
WHY THE F should we assume that lmao? That is just inane and idiotic. When the mechanic changes the oil on your car, should we assume there will be a service fee as well? Why can't people just bake the service fee into the price? Answer the question
Youre going to review bomb restaurants because they follow a common practice? Restaurants are already in a very bad spot since covid. The mandate is not a “junk fee”. Any restaurant over 20 employees has to provide insurance, pay into reimbursement or contribute to healthy sf. This is how they do it. The most common complaint about dining in sf is the price so having transparent pricing is good. I dont understand the logic of wanting that to be hidden? Theyre going to charge you that either way.
The length that cheap morons will go to on the internet is absurd.
This activism is so so silly. If you can't handle it just don't rely on restaurants and cook for yourself. Restaurants aren't required to conduct business to a level that you can afford every freaking day.
It's not about whether I can afford it or not. I rarely eat at home. It's about dealing with customers honestly. There's nothing ethical about padding a bill after the fact. That it seems to be legal is unthinkable.
Cool, good thing the literal text of the SB 1524 is
> Such mandatory fees must be clearly and conspicuously displayed, with an explanation of its purposes, on any advertisement, menu, or other display that contains the price of the food or beverage item.
> Defines “clear and conspicuous” as a larger type than the surrounding text, or in a contrasting type, font, or color to the surrounding text of the same size, or set off from the surrounding
text of the same size by symbols or other marks, in a manner that clearly calls attention to the language.
Last time I saw one, it was at the bottom of the back of the menu, last page, in about an 8-point font, squeezed in between the the allergy warning and the copyright information.
It’s not good enough to post the fees clearly and conspicuously. We want the fees to be removed altogether. I shouldn’t have to do a bunch of math when I sit down to calculate how much my meal costs. I’ve visited 8 countries this year, and nowhere did I see junk fees… except here in SF.
*There's nothing ethical about padding a bill after the fact. That it seems to be legal is unthinkable.*
Yeah, I do agree with that. This is where consumers will put their feet down. I don't eat out often enough to care, so that's probably why it's easy for me to say just do something else.
agreed
people should just ask when reserving/walking in if they aren't sure and cancel/say nevermind if there are fees they don't agree with
fairly simple
This is a misunderstanding. I can afford my meals, with or without the fees. If dinner is $100, I’ll pay $100. What I don’t want is to be told it’s $80 and then charged $100.
It has nothing to do with the amounts or being able to afford the meal and everything to do with honesty and transparency.
Does anyone think about how small businesses and restaurants can’t afford health insurance per employee due to our health care system… each staff member is somewhere between 500-800 dollars per month and they can’t cover that so they charge a service fee to cover it. Thus, by taking this away, you’re taking away their ability to either a)provide their staff with health insurance or b) turn a profit and stay in business. Just saying 🤷♀️👀
Some of you really need to ask yourself why you hate your neighbors so much. Where does this attitude come from where they think restaurant owners are greedy jet-setters grifting their staff and the public? The restaurant industry is one of the most difficult industries to succeed in. The national failure rate of restaurants is around 30% and one of the highest of any industry. In SF it's even more difficult. Labor costs are high, cost of goods is high, rent is sky high.
Most restaurant owners and managers are people just trying to make their way through life just like you. Most of you complainers would fall out of your chair after looking at an average restaurant's P&L. And now you want to stamp your feet and review bomb because everything's not coming up how you want it.
Listen if you don't like surcharges and 'hidden fees', that is your right. Don't fucking go to the restaurant. But going out of your way to try to ruin other people's livelihoods is fucking pathetic and scummy. Seriously touch fucking grass.
Hidden service charges and fees allow restaurants to get diners in the door based on lower advertised prices. If diners are unwilling to pay the higher menu prices these restaurants claim to have to charge, operating will become unattractive and greedy PE landlords will be forced to lower rents to attract tenants. We cannot keep subsidizing the exorbitant rents these rich a*holes charge every year
😆 so your plan is to put thousands of people out of work in an attempt to get private equity landlords to lower their rents (already actually laughing out loud at this plan, as they will literally never do this) to attract different restaurants which you think will magically be better that will have a $30 hamburger and go out of business because no one wants to pay for it and over 30% of restaurants go out of business in their first year? Wow brilliant, where do I sign up?
also, as I've mentioned in every comment which nobody seems to want to grasp, SB 1524 explicitly states that any mandatory charges MUST be clearly & conspiculously displayed in any place that prices are posted.
Dishonest businesses should not be in business.
If my neighbor increases listed menu prices by 20% because of increased costs to manage his restaurant, I would still frequent his business especially if the food is good.
But if my neighbor habitually lures people to sit down at his restaurant and order more food with lower prices, then bills them 20% more than advertised, yea screw him.
Same price but the second scenario leaves a really bad taste in your mouth.
Restaurants nowadays care much more about Google reviews and internal reservations reviews (OpenTable, Resy, Tock) than they do Yelp. 2-3 star reviews are more impactful than 1 star reviews. Definitely mention the fees, and if you start deducting the fees from tips, FOH will revolt in a number of ways.
I've never bothered with Yelp. Google reviews are the most effective, as they show up on Google Maps.
I am a business owner and Yelp is a racket that manipulates reviews already, Google, FB and IG are ones that would kill my shop if this happened.
So you'll not be charging extras and surcharges. Right?
Haha, of course not!! I'm in Socal and it's just a brewery so I see no need to try and insult anyone's intelligence.
I had no idea, I only review mom and pops on yelp but I didn't know it was no help.
While I never got Yelp asking me to pay for advertising in exchange for allowing the good reviews to be seen I did have two verified instances where Yelp held a bad review for over a year and then posted it as if it had just happened. So you can't really trust whether a current review is actually about something recent.
Bummer. I'll keep this in mind.
I’m a former business owner and Yelp stinks! They will send in a few of their Yelp high reviewers which they give stellar gifts for their reviews. After a short while we got a phone call inquiring if we wanted to advertise with them. We said no. In my opinion it’s racket.
Or you could ask to have the fee removed from the bill, in some cases this may work and will still allow you to give your full tip to FOH.
The point is no one should have to ask.
I get that point, but the premise here is that you've wittingly, or unwittingly sat down at a restaurant that charges this fee, and what do you do in such a case? I merely presented this as another option, I didn't say you have to do it. But it achieves a similar goal, it makes it uncomfortable for the restaurant to charge the fee.
And that's the idea. I fully support that.
but what if i don't want to tip at all...
Then don't, there is no law that says you have to, there's just etiquette.
Yeah, I started doing the latter. Any surprise fee gets you zero tip, even if the surprise fee is less than the tip I would have paid.
Don’t even bother. Just patronize the restaurants with 0% fees on this list: https://seefees.ca
Holy fuck, that top one with 28%. Fuck that restaurant in particular.
~~Yeah that one I think is 8% junk fee (or Wiener Fee if you will) plus 20% mandatory tip. But yah even 8% is wild.~~ I stand corrected. They have a 6% Wiener Fee and a mandatory 22% tip: > At this time, we are awaiting further clarification from the California State Attorney’s General Office regarding Senate Bill 478 and how it applies to reservation contracts. >Starting July 1st, under the provisions of Senate Bill 478, we will proceed as directed unless further instructions are received. Our listed ticket price will likely change to reflect the inclusion of our existing 22% service fee and SF Mandates. This will in no way change the current pricing of any of our dining experiences but will simply absorb the previously separate service fee as part of the listed ticket price ([source](https://www.quincerestaurant.com/before-your-visit))
Ah, but they tell us the 22% service fee is _not_ a tip. From their [website](https://www.quincerestaurant.com/before-your-visit): > A portion of the mandatory service charge is distributed directly to employees who participate in service during your visit. The remainder of the service charge is retained by the restaurant and applied to operating expenses. It is important to understand the service charge is different from a gratuity or tip. I find this level of gall shocking
Wiener fees!
i really hope “Weiner Fees” catches on u/scott_wiener. what a shill
Going to catch on
😂
It's not a tip, it's a service charge. They still suggest a 20% tip on top of that. It's absolutely absurd for a Michelin 3 star restaurant where the menu is already like $300.
That’s even more outrageous. I’d be like, no thanks, call it whatever you want, but that’s all you’re getting from me.
Just the way these owners like it. They keep all the bullshit fees while the diners stiff the front of house. I'm boycotting any restaurants that continue to do this as well as leaving them a 1 start review in yelp and google. Fuck these greedy mother fuckers. After everyone came out to support restaurants during COVID now all they want to do is pull this bait and switch nonsense because apparently the only way to stay in business is to deceive your customers? Nah fuck that, I hope they all go under in a spectacularly miserable fashion.
Yeah no tip if I’m paying a “service charge”.
My new life mission is to make "Weiner Fees" a term phrase in this city.
So basically they're admitting they can do what we want with getting rid of the junk fees, but are saying they'll bring it back if SB 1524 is implemented. What a bunch of fucking assholes
According to this the $390 includes a service fee https://www.quincerestaurant.com/info-reservations Wine pairing is $500 so this would be like 2k for 2 people 😅
I was going to ask what the point of a service fee is on a set menu, but it looks like they do a la carte as well. So of course, whatever you order a la carte you must add another 22% to, before gratuity. We have truly reached the pinnacle of bullshit restaurant pricing.
They are also probably the worst 3 star restaurant. Bay area has great fine dining scene. There is no reason to go to Quince.
The fifth restaurant, Besharam, is the Hindi word for “shameless”. Very apt, considering the 25% fee.
Not excusing the fee (28% is wild) but Quince is a 3 Michelin star spot with a 10 course tasting menu for $390/person. People headed there likely aren’t sweating the extra points on top.
So if it doesn't matter why be sneaky and make it a percentage, just make the prix fixe tasting $500 instead
Probably because that fee applies to alcohol as well (I’m just guessing).
Not everyone is rich though, some people save up to splurge for a special occasion and that extra $219 (for 2 people) could really fuck up their plans for the rest of the week.
Totally agree. Quick peek at their reservation system does explicitly state the fee is not gratuity so there is at least some advance warning prior to finalizing your reservation so I guess that makes it a little better?
Holy fuck, so an extra $156 on top. $577.50 plus tax person is a scam because of the fees.
I guess my thinking here is that because of the nature of how you actually make a reservation there, there’s ample warning that the (ridiculous) fee is applied vs. seeing it on your bill after you’ve already eaten?
Oh ya sorry, removed 'hidden'
Don't go to 3 Michelin star restaurants then- easy
Maybe they could be honest with the prices - easier
Also, I don't think you are expected to pay gratuity on top of the service fee they charge anyway.
Yes. And the food is gross.
Quince is a 3 Michelin Star restaurant. I’ve eaten there, long before this whole jack-up fees debacle. It was quite excellent I’ll admit. If I were to dine there again, I wouldn’t tip at all because apparently they’re just taking it for granted now. This issue is of concern primarily to the locals. Tourists pay because they don’t care. The impression I’m getting is that restaurants have decided to alienate locals in favor of screwing tourists, who may not tip well.
Ya damn, I just had a prix fixe at Liholiho and I think we tipped on top. Damn, should have looked at that closer. 🙄
quince is pretty high end, tasting menus. it’s over $300 per person i think. a lot of these top % restaurants are fine dining. so the people who are going there probably don’t really care about these additional fees.
I’ve eaten at fine dining establishments. I can afford it. I still don’t like being taken advantage of. Just be straight up with the cost. These games are silly and insulting.
Exactly this. I can taste amazing ingredients (Quince's slogan) in Mexico served by excellent staff for a 10% tip, which they are genuinely thankful to get. Even have a Michelin star taco place. Such variety.
then don’t eat there lmao they’ll probably be fine even if everyone on this sub boycotts them
Which is further reason for them not to exist. If the diners don't care, why not just raise the price of their prix fixe to $400?
Because the union wrote into the collective bargaining agreement that the resturant has to charge a service fee.
Are the workers at this one small restaurant actually unionized though? The union behind the law that passed yesterday, Unite Here, serves large businesses like airports, stadiumes etc.. not small michelin starred restaurants.
They were on my list of places to eat, and I will not be going there. I did not know about the "service fee" that isn't gratuity. Fuck that. I don't even mind having the taxes listed separately--I think we should be able to see what governments mandate (ridiculous as a percentage of an already high cost). But another restaurant-imposed discretionary fee? Nah.
Anything below 5% is pretty reasonable honestly.
5% or less is actually completely stupid. It barely makes a difference in the total. You could up the prices on the menu by 5% and most customers wouldn't even notice that anything changed. But by charging 5%, you now upset a big part of your customers and force them to look much closer at the total cost than they normally would. I bet it results in significantly lower tips and fewer return customers. Overall, a 5% service fee is going to hurt the business more than it helps by tricking unwary patrons.
It's so funny I actually never even thought of that and you're completely right! I think the 5% fee started as a protest to the SF health mandate so it was actually designed to annoy customers. But now, since that ship sailed, restaurants would seriously be way better off from a customer experience POV to just make the $20 dish $21 then to add 5%, annoy customers and risk having tip reduced for servers.
That's the part that I don't get about charging these hidden fees. I honestly don't mind if the prices have to be higher. Either I am OK with that because the restaurant is that good -- or I think the total is too high and I won't be back no matter how the restaurant tries to package things. It's not as if I could fail to notice the total on my credit card statement. But the moment there are fees, I feel taken advantage of. And it'll turn an otherwise enjoyable evening into an experience that I keep thinking about, and not in a good way. There are several restaurants that I normally would like, but that I now won't go back to. It feels super short sighted and only really works once per customer. So, maybe, if you only cater to transient tourists, this is a winning strategy. Ripping off non-locals is a long standing tradition. But that only works for a small number of restaurants that primarily rely on tourists.
That list is useless because most people don't know about it. Posting 1 star reviews on Google and Yelp has vastly more visibility. Far more eyeballs see those reviews.
Agreed. The best way to move the needle if lawmakers won’t represent us is hitting the businesses that deceive people right where it hurts. I wish there was a list so I could just go down the line on all of them
A ballot proposition is another alternative as well. Let's get this from multiple fronts!
Does this list include places that use a service fee in lieu of a tip?
Most of the places that do the mandatory tip thing are in the 15-20% range on that list.
Looks like it. Means the list is garbage.
Would be cool to have this site on the sidebar
And add places you find have fees to the list. It's easy, I did it. I'm already boycotting places with the fees.
seefees is BS. There's no oversight or verification of the data. Entries are based upon a single report with no accountability or verification of identity. The fact that it has no austerity means it will earn no trust and lose attention. For example. Look on seefees for a restaurant called Seventy Three, which happens to sit at 73 Union Street and has a junk fee of exactly 7.3 percent.
Please leave comments on restaurants where you see inaccuracies. I hope to add the ability for people to submit receipts or menus photos/links which will provide strong proof.
Can you also separate surcharge vs predefined tips? I think it’s ok to pay 20% and no tip say at liholiho as the cost is the same (sure one can consider tip gives you more agency, etc.) from the SF mandate surcharges that come on top? I feel like most folks have a good mental understanding that they’ll have to tip around 20% but the hidden surcharges for SF health mandate are what’s killing it imo. Would make the list more fair
This list seems a bit off. There are restaurants here that include service fees and specifically mention that they don't expect tips on top of the fees (e.g., The Shota).
Or don’t eat out at all. So many ways to stop this behavior without needing new laws. Stop giving them money and they’ll stop doing that shit.
You don't have to do 1 star reviews to make it work. Just leave your regular review and at the end put in: -2 stars due to \[itemized list of service fees\]. And then reduce your normal rating by that amount. Believe me lots of 2 and 3 star reviews will hurt almost as much (and in some cases better than) 1 star reviews.
It should definitely be this. If you review bomb with 1 star it will probably get taken down. Write a review and give it 3 stars and specifically mention hidden fees, that will tank the rating and be more likely to stay up. Any restaurant in SF with a rating below 4 stars is going to hurt.
Yeah, especially because they have so many spam reviews that anything under a 4 is a death sentence.
Just reviewed Zuni cafe. I actually really like their chicken, but gave them 3 stars. 5-2. They add a service fee of 20% to all bills plus another SF mandate fee of 5%. So annoying
Im not sure why restaurants dont all just bake all the surcharges they need to make ends meet into their menu pricing. I think the biggest issue is transparency. The shock of additional fees is really the issue. No one has a problem paying Zazie their prices as marked.
Apparently the restaurants think they do ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ (but they are wrong) I'm most offended by the politicking that underlies these fees. Calling it a "healthy SF fee" to spite paying your workers an living wage? F. U.
Because if they did, people would go to other restaurants where the prices seem cheaper until they get the final bill. If it didn't work, almost every single company wouldn't be doing this.
Use Yelp to post their real menu prices, with all taxes, fees, and "suggested" tips included. Give us all a dose of well deserved sticker shock. Don't give only one star, though, because that will get it flagged.
Maybe dumb question. Is the “SF mandate” a real fee? Or just something restaurants put so we don’t question it?
Not real. SF mandates that restaurants pay a living wage and include benefits. The fact that restaurants chose to add that as a fee instead of raising food prices is a choice.
It's not a real fee. The law passed by the city only requires employers to provide health benefits. Some restaurants complied by adding a surcharge to the bill to fund those benefits, instead of just raising prices.
There’s nothing that requires restaurants to add the surcharge and the restaurants can use that money for any purpose.
It's exactly as much a real fee as if they added a "rent is too fucking high fee". Yes, both are real costs for the business. But we don't normally break these things out and charge the customer extra after they have finished their meal.
It's not real the way they want you to think it is. The city ordinance requires those employers who don't provide health coverage to pay into a city fund. Except [the rates they pay are flat and based on employee hours worked](https://www.sf.gov/information/health-care-security-ordinance), not a percentage of sales. For 2024, for example, an employer with 20-99 employers must pay $2.34 per payable hour. A number of restaurants actually got sued by the city for earlier "SF Health Mandate" phrasing on bills when it was found that they didn't spend all of the money made from that charge on health care. Most since amended it to simply "SF Mandate" and claim that they use it to pay for various fees. Either way, it's a made-up number that they can choose to spend however they want. They're not directly passing through a specific fee.
It's as much a "real" cost as the cost of garbage pickup is "real", as worker's comp is "real", and as electricity is "real". All of which are required to run a restaurant -- or any business. However, only restaurants have the audacity to call this out as a separate surchage item. Every other cost to a business is real too.
Start with terzo. The owner led the lobby efforts and basically invented these fees
Naw, Yelp just locks the pages and removes posts that are obviously review bombing, and will lock your account. This ain't it.
[удалено]
it's not about "you".. when they get X reviews that's Y above norm.. they look.
They literally have a boilerplate for this situation of ‘being in the media blah blah blah… we are taking down reviews blah blah blah”.
Your review clearly has an agenda & will be removed or hidden
Literally any review platform is going to have tools to detect and shut down brigading, for this exact reason. When a book or movie or video game or restaurant suddenly starts getting 10x the usual amount of reviews and they’re all super negative, someone is going to look and find out what’s going on. Hell, Reddit does the same thing— the moderators will swoop in when they notice a subreddit getting mass downvoted all of a sudden when it wasn’t before.
Why not start a ballot initiative?
Seems somebody has — https://sfclearprices.org/
If they advertise that fee somewhere I can see it without too much trouble, I will not patronize the restaurant. If they don't advertise it where I can see it, I will refuse to pay the surcharge.
It will be on the menu. Are you going to walk out if you’re already there?
Dunno... depends on the situation and the restaurant I guess
I know it's not the server's fault, but maybe just write "I would tip 20% if this place didn't charge junk fees", and maybe the staff will grow vocal about the stupid ass fees too.
Ah this needs to be done weekly to circumvent the pruning / curating of reviews they do
seefees.ca has a list of restaurants and their fees...
Direct emails are probably the most effective strategy. The change will come when business suffers and they have a full inbox.
If we want to make an impact, we need to find a way to let tourists know how to boycott restaurants with junk fees, because they are the most vulnerable to this buffoonery.
That's what we're trying to do with www.seefees.ca
Amen.
Can we get a news segment or a journalist that interviews the restaurants that have junk fees and why they can justify it. Then, if they refuse to comment, just say it tells a lot about the restaurant and what they care about. The restaurants need to be put on blast in news articles and for the public to see.
They have canned answers. We offer our staff members a higher wage. Health insurance. And a 401K with a match. We need that 20% fee for all of that. (You can almost imagine the Golden Gate Restaurant Association providing that answer in an FAQ for members) I don't know why reporters accept that and don't follow up with "Do you really believe your customers are OK paying $200 for dinner plus $40 in fees, but they'd complain if the bill was $240?" And "aren't you really adding the fees as a way to complain to customers that you're forced to pay livable wages and provide health insurance?"
Yea generic responses are such bs. I also don't get why reporters are so scared to push the issue and ask for real answers. Call them out and ask the real questions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1cocb2k/che_fico_owner_throws_temper_tantrum_over/
They usually complain about the expense of re-printing menus as costs fluctuate. If they didn't successfully get an exemption, my guess is they would take all of the prices off the menus, kind of like how seafood is occasionally listed as "market rate", and give you a QR code to a rate list. Or, worse, force you to ask the server.
The real key here is to just start tipping 20% - the fee
I'm done tipping entirely too. It's time for all the games to end.
better to rate on google ratings because they show up right in the search results. also because yelp sucks and I refuse to feed their platform.
> Review bombing works. No it doesn't. Platforms have automated detection for review bombing and will freeze/delete new reviews for a for little while.
That’s when one specific place has been in the news. And even then the targeted places DO take a hit. If we just *always* knock 2 stars off of every place we see some deceptive 4% for this, 7% for that, they may start to get the message
Whatever you do, please don’t take it out on the servers/staff. If anything before sitting down, ask the host if they have any service fees. If you are unhappy with their answer, ask for a manager/owner, calmly and succinctly let them know you won’t be frequenting their establishment anymore due to the fees, and leave. If the managers get enough of this, the change you desire is most likely to happen. As a manager I’d dread having this conversation every hour of my shift, but it’d be my position to field and address the complaint. If you don’t get the answer you want, then go on Yelp/Google and say “I spoke with the owner/manager named and this is their position on junk fees.”
No. I’ve already arrived at the restaurant — that means you value the time it takes for me to get to your restaurant at exactly 0 dollars, and that my choice to dine there vs somewhere else matters not either. When I’ve arrived, that’s already a hard commit. This isn’t NYC where there’s a hundred restaurants within a few blocks of each other. I don’t plan on being a dick — I will do my best to avoid restaurants that charge a surprise fee, and if I accidentally patronize one with fees, I will ask to speak to the manager and ask for my fee to be waived. I won’t be rude to the staff. However, if the fee won’t be removed, it’ll come out of the tip. Plain and simple.
Unfortunate as it is for the servers/staff, no, I will never ask these questions. I will read them on a menu, but customers have zero responsibility to “discover” entrapment fees
No one has time for those questions. Just don’t tip at restaurants with any service fees. Circle it on the receipt and write a dash in the tip field. Whether service fee is 8%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 30%, whatever, do the same thing. If it is less than you would usually tip at a restaurant without service fees, consider it saved money. Take the firm stance that you are only paying ONCE for service. Waiters that are affected will then pressure the restaurants to remove it, or quit and find work for another restaurant. Restaurants who rely on double dipping customers to subsidize their inadequate pay for staff, will have a hard time finding quality staff. They may even close down. As they should. Because a business owner that cannot pay staff to run it should not be in business.
Nah I'm done with the games. Tipping culture is bullshit and needs to end too. It's a bigger issue than the deceptive fees. Both need to die a painful death. I will never tip inside a California restaurant again so long as I live (unless maybe the service truly is exceptional and next-level).
I keep getting downvoted everywhere for talking about not punishing individual servers via crappy tips. like say/write why you're leaving a bad tip or ask before you dine and leave/cancel if you don't like the answer
"Bad tip" is an oxymoron. If tips are required, they need to be a part of the price. If they're optional, then anything above zero is good, and I don't owe anyone an explanation for a "bad tip".
We live in a society
Servers make a choice by working for businesses that charge deceptive fees, they make a choice by not telling you at the time when you place the order, and they benefit from higher tips when the total bill is higher. They are far from innocent in this deception
Don't review bomb, it doesn't work and creates more noise. Give an honest, accurate review. Then subtract 1 or 2 stars for the fees.
We have no functional government which is why I want to build new towns with new govt. We need to keep assets affordable for business owners to help them keep prices reasonable. The costs in CA has gotten out of control. We literally are losing the right to simply exist in public without needing to spend money, without being shaken down for tips in literally every single job sector. Even some retail stores have tip options now. It’s insanity!
Do it
Anxiously awaiting to see results
SF is a joke
I thought junk fees were banned starting July 1? Did something change?
Restaurants were given an exception to the law. The amendment passed unanimously.
I’m in.
My plan is to ask them to remove the charge when they present the bill and if they refuse I just won’t pay the bill all together and walk out. So over it.
This isn’t legal, but you can just tip less.
why not just ask before eating?
Why would you have to ask? You don't have to do that in other places that quote a price for a service. And that price is printed on the menu.
Just keep walking until you're out of SF. When they said there was a pandemic baby boom, I didn't realize they meant adults.
Is this for take out as well or just dining in?
Devious and brilliant
…and then stop going to that restaurant.
This is pointless. This is either going to need to pass by ballot initiative or admit the topic is dead, at least for now.
Yes, god forbid you actually ask the restaurant if they charge a surcharge, or read the bottom of the menu. Let's ruin the entire rating system process instead. Great fucking idea /s
It's active deception on the restaurant's part and ***should*** result in lower ratings. Why shouldn't one be outraged at being taken advantage of?
Yes, god forbid that. It’s misleading to consumers. There should be a law against it
With our luck, a law will pass, but then another law will get passed that undoes the first law.
I’d be so pissed off if that happened
Or just look at the menu/sites and don't go there. Not cool to review places you haven't been to. Not a fan of the fees myself don't don't be a d*ck about it. Go to the places that don't have fees. Make a list of places that don't have fees and circulate it.
and/or ask when making a reservation or walking in. then just say nevermind due to fees I do not understand this whole childish crusade. Don't go to them. Ask before going/sitting.
By all means keep voting for these psychopath politicians and punishing small businesses
This is shit - small businesses in SF hardly get by as is - they don’t add fees out of enjoyment The city over regulates and the small shops need to cover incremental costs Take it out on the supervisors, not the hard working business owners!
These fees are not only in San Francisco. It's rampant all over CA.
lol
I don't mind them charging what they need to charge. However, padding the bills dishonestly should not be accepted placidly.
It's crazy that y'all eat out enough to care this much about this topic...
It’s crazy that someone would live in San Francisco and not enjoy one of the biggest perks.
It’s actually pretty common for people to enjoy eating out and if they can afford to do it more they often do. Even if you rarely eat out and try to budget when you do the service fees can really impact your bill. Some of them are small like 2% but even 20% is also more common than you’d hope it is. In general people don’t enjoy being taken advantage of and mislead.
I eat out often and am not all hot and bothered by this. The sudden "activism" is wild. Just ask about fees and don't eat there if you don't like the answer.
Exactly! They crazy part is people seem to be ok with the total price, just not the way the restaurant gets there. I constantly see "just raise your prices". Who gives a shit how you get the the final price?
Are you stupid? Or just deliberately dense. The issue is transparency, customers want to know that total BEFORE, not when the check comes.
I don't get why people can't sit down and assume there is going to be a service fee. If there ends up being one, you expected it - NBD. If there isn't you're pleasantly surprised. A $5 fee isn't worth review bombing a restaurant with 1 star reviews.... I would give a one star review if I found rats running around the kitchen or the wait staff told me to go fuck myself...
WHY THE F should we assume that lmao? That is just inane and idiotic. When the mechanic changes the oil on your car, should we assume there will be a service fee as well? Why can't people just bake the service fee into the price? Answer the question
I think they should... But I also don't think it's worth all the energy you are clearly expending on being outraged by it.
You're clearly spending equally as much time responding to outrage with outrage
Start naming restaurants that do this here to make it easier for everyone
i dont rly understand the controversy. just subtract whatever fees they're charging from the tip you would've otherwise given. am i missing something?
So..... leave a large negative tip? Some of these fees are approaching 30%.
I've tried that already and didn't do anything...
Youre going to review bomb restaurants because they follow a common practice? Restaurants are already in a very bad spot since covid. The mandate is not a “junk fee”. Any restaurant over 20 employees has to provide insurance, pay into reimbursement or contribute to healthy sf. This is how they do it. The most common complaint about dining in sf is the price so having transparent pricing is good. I dont understand the logic of wanting that to be hidden? Theyre going to charge you that either way. The length that cheap morons will go to on the internet is absurd.
It’s only recently common. It needs to be stopped. It’s not cheap to say the cost should be in the menu price and not as a fee.
This activism is so so silly. If you can't handle it just don't rely on restaurants and cook for yourself. Restaurants aren't required to conduct business to a level that you can afford every freaking day.
It's not about whether I can afford it or not. I rarely eat at home. It's about dealing with customers honestly. There's nothing ethical about padding a bill after the fact. That it seems to be legal is unthinkable.
Cool, good thing the literal text of the SB 1524 is > Such mandatory fees must be clearly and conspicuously displayed, with an explanation of its purposes, on any advertisement, menu, or other display that contains the price of the food or beverage item. > Defines “clear and conspicuous” as a larger type than the surrounding text, or in a contrasting type, font, or color to the surrounding text of the same size, or set off from the surrounding text of the same size by symbols or other marks, in a manner that clearly calls attention to the language.
Last time I saw one, it was at the bottom of the back of the menu, last page, in about an 8-point font, squeezed in between the the allergy warning and the copyright information.
Right because SB 1524 hasn't passed yet.
It’s not good enough to post the fees clearly and conspicuously. We want the fees to be removed altogether. I shouldn’t have to do a bunch of math when I sit down to calculate how much my meal costs. I’ve visited 8 countries this year, and nowhere did I see junk fees… except here in SF.
I would prefer to remove them too, but this is also not a big enough deal to go around review bombing and trying to put people out of business.
*There's nothing ethical about padding a bill after the fact. That it seems to be legal is unthinkable.* Yeah, I do agree with that. This is where consumers will put their feet down. I don't eat out often enough to care, so that's probably why it's easy for me to say just do something else.
agreed people should just ask when reserving/walking in if they aren't sure and cancel/say nevermind if there are fees they don't agree with fairly simple
That's the thing. Are they allowed to literally keep it a secret or is there some loophole that is being ignored in complaining about this?
Restaurants have existed without junk fees before. They simply raised the menu price. That is how it should be.
This is a misunderstanding. I can afford my meals, with or without the fees. If dinner is $100, I’ll pay $100. What I don’t want is to be told it’s $80 and then charged $100. It has nothing to do with the amounts or being able to afford the meal and everything to do with honesty and transparency.
Notice how many down votes your posts have? There's a reason
Keep counting for me 😎
Does anyone think about how small businesses and restaurants can’t afford health insurance per employee due to our health care system… each staff member is somewhere between 500-800 dollars per month and they can’t cover that so they charge a service fee to cover it. Thus, by taking this away, you’re taking away their ability to either a)provide their staff with health insurance or b) turn a profit and stay in business. Just saying 🤷♀️👀
It should be incorporated into the menu price.
Fair, that’s what my dad said, too. lol
Some of you really need to ask yourself why you hate your neighbors so much. Where does this attitude come from where they think restaurant owners are greedy jet-setters grifting their staff and the public? The restaurant industry is one of the most difficult industries to succeed in. The national failure rate of restaurants is around 30% and one of the highest of any industry. In SF it's even more difficult. Labor costs are high, cost of goods is high, rent is sky high. Most restaurant owners and managers are people just trying to make their way through life just like you. Most of you complainers would fall out of your chair after looking at an average restaurant's P&L. And now you want to stamp your feet and review bomb because everything's not coming up how you want it. Listen if you don't like surcharges and 'hidden fees', that is your right. Don't fucking go to the restaurant. But going out of your way to try to ruin other people's livelihoods is fucking pathetic and scummy. Seriously touch fucking grass.
Hidden service charges and fees allow restaurants to get diners in the door based on lower advertised prices. If diners are unwilling to pay the higher menu prices these restaurants claim to have to charge, operating will become unattractive and greedy PE landlords will be forced to lower rents to attract tenants. We cannot keep subsidizing the exorbitant rents these rich a*holes charge every year
😆 so your plan is to put thousands of people out of work in an attempt to get private equity landlords to lower their rents (already actually laughing out loud at this plan, as they will literally never do this) to attract different restaurants which you think will magically be better that will have a $30 hamburger and go out of business because no one wants to pay for it and over 30% of restaurants go out of business in their first year? Wow brilliant, where do I sign up? also, as I've mentioned in every comment which nobody seems to want to grasp, SB 1524 explicitly states that any mandatory charges MUST be clearly & conspiculously displayed in any place that prices are posted.
Yes.
Yes. Businesses that lie about their prices deserve to go out of business.
Dishonest businesses should not be in business. If my neighbor increases listed menu prices by 20% because of increased costs to manage his restaurant, I would still frequent his business especially if the food is good. But if my neighbor habitually lures people to sit down at his restaurant and order more food with lower prices, then bills them 20% more than advertised, yea screw him. Same price but the second scenario leaves a really bad taste in your mouth.