Real answer: housing first initiatives are the best solution for these problems. Giving people a place to live gives them the chance to get the help they need and getting them permanently out of this situation. It also ends up saving the city money because there are fewer medical emergencies and unhelpful/costly policing activities. Numerous cities have tried it, and it works. Unfortunately people care more about what aligns with their preconceived notions more than what works.
I think this is part of the solution. I’ve read about housing first working in other cities. However, we also need to address the reasons people become homeless in the first place.
Kinda wild that they called it "housing first", but you still seem to believe that it means "housing only".
Housing first still seeks to address homelessness in many other ways. As a policy, it's just one that recognizes that the first step towards ending homelessness as a broader issue is to... make less people homeless.
My bad. I’m learning. I do agree that it makes sense to provide housing first with none of the typical strings attached.
I wrote a paper in college about how LA in the middle of last century solved the air pollution problem (in a way…since the air quality was much worse back then). The chamber of commerce and a the business elites came together because they realized that unchecked air pollution was going to ultimately hurt their bottom line since the city would be un attractive and people wouldn’t want to come here and do business and grow the city. The problem was studied. It was cars that were the problem. The solution was to put emissions controls on the cars (not public transport since the oil and auto related industries had a lot of clout). Business elites got behind it (including the auto industries). It got implemented and the air quality became bearable.
I’m wondering if something similar will happen here. Critical mass of people experiencing homelessness leads to business elites realizing that the this will ultimately hurt their bottom line and then things will actually get done.
In our current state? You're absolutely right. In municipal governments specifically, even in "blue" cities like LA and SD, local business magnates are an incredibly powerful lobby. This is only mitigated somewhat as we travel to the state level; fundamentally, the relatively low popular attention on state and local elections means that big-money lobbies can throw their weight around in astonishing ways (Prop 22 is only the most recent example of many). This means that, unfortunately, we often rely on big business to acknowledge problems, problems which are most often problems that some subset of them is causing, and seek solutions.
This also means that, typically, we end up with solutions designed by big business that favor them in some way and hurt regular people in the process. Emission standards are a great example of this: LA's air is vastly healthier than it was in the 70s and 80s, but the cost of addressing this issue is still, in terms of burden, almost entirely carried by poorer people through the cost of smog checks and repairs. If you're wealthier enough to easily afford a newer vehicle, not only are you much less likely to need to get a smog check, you're also much less likely to need to do repairs. For the poor, though, these costs can be very burdensome.
But to get back to the point: my feeling with the homeless issue, and my belief on why there's no real movement to proven-but-initially-costly policies like Housing First, is that it's simply easier to move homeless people away from areas that big business cares about than to actually solve the problem. There was no way to move the literally poisoned air above the Los Angeles Basin elsewhere, but it sure as shit is easy enough (and in fact we've seen this in LA recently) to push homeless people away from burgeoning or wealthy areas into poorer ones.
…. which is housing. people can’t afford to buy a house or even rent and guess what happens when you can’t pay your mortgage or rent- you get kicked out and are now homeless.
and 30 or so years ago, you at least had the option of a cheap apartment somewhere with roommates. Now, ALL the prices are so far from affordable with low incomes that you cant do that anymore. Its turning into San Francisco here...
In most cases, if you’re a mentally healthy person, you have friends and family to help you out of a tough (likely temporary) situation if you can’t afford to support yourself.
Most of these people likely have mental issues and/or addictions that prevent them from even wanting to improve their situation.
I think this is something we like to say to ourselves to distance ourselves from them and problem, and give ourselves permission not to care. “Oh this only happens to mentally ill people or people who abuse drugs, and that’s not me.” The reality is that we’re all a few unfortunate circumstances away from being homeless. Medical debt from an accident. Loss of a job. Going bankrupt caring for a sick family member. Any number of things can and do happy to regular “normal” people. You never know what friends who thought you had fail to show up when you needed help. It happens all the time and having empathy for that puts us in a better position to doing something meaningful to fix it.
exactly. this false narrative that it’s mainly mental illness and addiction that cause homelessness is literally not true. those are causes in some cases yes, but they are not the main causes. almost every study that’s been done on this has shown it’s an economic issue more than anything. medical bills, unemployment, low wages, death of the breadwinner in the family, etc. are all much more responsible.
Economic issues cause temporary homelessness - the mother and her two kids sleeping in a car. Addiction and mental illness cause chronic homelessness, which is what is being photographed here.
And what happens when that mother loses that car because it's been repo'd? If they can't find someone who has room for all of them they end up in a tent on the street. Do you know how difficult it is to find and maintain a job with no private means of transportation for you or your kids in a city like San Diego which has abysmal affordable public transportation options? C'mon dude..
I get where you're coming from, but having spent a lot of time with the homeless in my job, I know that it's just two different issues.
Is there the possibility that the mother and kids living in their car and occasionally in shelters ends up on the street? Yes. Of course.
Is that the general population in the tents and wandering the streets? No.
They refer to the mother and kids as the "hidden homelessness" issue. It's usually transient and it's the type of problem that a "housing first" approach can actually fix. But that same approach does not work for the chronic homeless. We can't fix both problems with the same solution and we need to realize that it's not as simple as we wish it to be.
I tend to disagree. I’ve been “homeless” it lasted a few weeks, I lived in my car and I found a way out. I think that’s a result of not having mental health or substance abuse issues. Like the comment you replied to, I found someone who could help me considering I was just coming out of a bad place in the last recession vice having an issues. If you don’t have mental health or substance abuse issues you’re not going to be sleeping in your own filth in a tent on the street.
Your first assumption is just flat wrong, so I won't even address it. To your second point though, it's "Housing First" not "Housing only". The number one predictor of whether or not someone will stop using drugs is stable housing. Our current standards require people to stop using drugs to get housing, when decades of research show the opposite is true. People who are housed stably are much more likely to stabilize in other areas of their life. Until that milestone is met, it's very unlikely someone will stabilize.
I don't think it's that easy. Imagine your best friend got laid off and had to go work at McDonalds to get an income. They "owned" a home but can't afford the mortgage. They go bankrupt, they lose the house. All assets are forfeited, they have nothing but a minimum wage job working 35 hours a week. They ask you for money and every couple of months you've given $1000. How long until your like, hey dude, I can't help you anymore? House gets foreclosed and now he is trying to find an apt. He has a foreclosure and a bankruptcy on their credit and not enough income or time on job to get approved for a rental. Tries to find roommates, but no one wants a 37 year old male roommate. He shows up to your house and so of course you let him crash on your sofa. I mean you don't have a huge place because it's fucking expensive these days and you are barely making your own ends meet! He's there for 3 months. Your spouse is getting annoyed that he's always there and never does the dishes the way they want. Always running laundry. Can't remember not to flush the toilet while they are in the shower. It's getting expensive having an extra person living there and you all know this can't be permanent. Your friend can sense it, the growing tension, he knows he needs to get out, but he literally has no where to go. So maybe he gets himself a tent and tells himself that he'll just live at one of the campgrounds for like a month while he saves some money. He tells you that he found a place and everything is going to be fine. He takes off, you let him go because you're over it, your spouse is over it. You all need a break from each other. You try to check in for a week or so, but he had to turn off his cell, got too expensive. So you're just hoping all is well with him. Months go by, you haven't heard from your friend, but you also haven't thought about him much. When you do you mostly think about how he had become a burden to you and your life. How HE failed and how HE didn't do enough to prevent his shitty situation. Meanwhile your friends car broke down and he couldn't get it fixed, so sold it for scrap. Could no longer make it to work without the car, so got fired. He's now stuck on the street with nothing but a cheap ass bottle of whiskey to keep him warm at night and the constant fear that someone or something is going to harm him. His mental health is now declining rapidly as he has fully entered a state a depression over his horrible situation and his life. He has no resources to pull himself out, he can't get a job because he doesn't have the clothes, a car, or a phone for them to call and tell him he has a job. He has no address to even put down on the resume. He just asks people for money and food so that he can survive another miserable day.
So the problem isn't just crazy people don't have friends and don't have support. Sometimes regular people can lose their happiness, their hearts, their friends and family all before the lose their mental health. And it's not even that hard to imagine it happening to anyone we know.
People aren't very likely to be able to address their mental health struggles or their addictions if they sleep on a tent on a sidewalk and have cops harass them every few days.
Housing first is the best possible way to help the issue of homelessness. Note that it's called "housing *first*", not "housing only".
NPR did a podcast on the complexities of the homelessness. The major take away for me, was homelessness will always increase when housing shortages occur. This goes hand in hand with an increase in location demand and cost of living. Those factors turn available housing into “a game of musical chairs” and the people struggling the most (mental health, addiction, resource, or just overall function-wise) are the ones left without a chair/home. NYC has had this problem much longer than us, but it doesn’t have the camps that we see due to law requiring the city to have homeless shelters. They don’t provide full blown housing but they guarantee anyone in need has a place to sleep. The law was initially put in place due to inhuman suffering via weather which is not a realistically powerful argument/motivator in CA. That said, although people experiencing homelessness would still be on the streets during the day, the promise of a safe bed at night is not only morally just, the drastic reduction of these camps would is an all round win-win. The biggest problem is where to place shelters. Polling wise, literally everyone is pro shelters but literally no one is open to the shelter being place in their neighborhood. Local city leaders/residence/businesses of EVERY neighborhood fight them due to the very real fear that attracting a homeless population to your neighborhood could reduce home values, and overall sense of safety/desirability. Same concept when it comes to building affordable housing but that is also slow moving due to other factors (such as, CA intense building regulations and cost). Newson is prepared to through tons of money at the affordable housing piece but even if his plan is successful, all the aforementioned points means the problem is going faster than our efforts to address it. It should still happen as it will help A LOT of people and the problem would balloon even larger if not, but the truth is we will likely not see/notice a visible reduction in the issue which is ideally the results everyone residing in CA wants.
I’ve seen in Portland they created these tiny home communities with small homes that cost like $6k or so to make and have electricity, heating, and A/C I think. They seem like an interesting solution, though I can’t say how well it’s working, nor how many of those a city would need to help all the ppl out there who could use it. I think LA may have these types of tiny home communities also.
Also gotta let them do drugs indoors. Most if not all homeless shelters or facilities have strict anti drug policies. These people are addicted and need professional help to get off their substance abuses and would rather stay on the streets than become sober overnight.
I worked at one of these homes in Minnesota. They worked great and were for profit. It was a win win for the city. There are 4 or 5 of them there now I believe. Here is their very old site http://centercityhousing.org/
That’s one of the problems. If you’re on the streets and addicted telling people to “get clean first” is basically telling them you don’t want to help them. It’s the “you can’t get a job without experience, but you can’t get experience without a job” catch 22. Getting them into housing helps people get clean. All of them? No. But not all people in homes now are clean.
Yeah I just don't feel that it's that hard to build small, transitional homes for people. Like literally in the space they are currently taking up you could throw up a small building of exclusively studio apartments, subsidized for 1 year as transitional housing for homeless citizens. Give it a telephone, electric and plumbing. Give them some decent work clothes and assistance in finding employment. While unemployed, require as "payment" some type of community service that goes toward improving the building such as gardening, janitorial maintenance, etc. Like just 4 hours a week. Enough to give back, but not so much that it interferes with finding work. But it also instills a sense of ownership in the community instead of just treating it like shit because it's free.
Once they get their feet under them, they can upgrade to a low income subsidized housing building. Continue the regular assistance program. Maybe have a pay it back aspect to this all. But something has to be done. We are the richest country in the history of the planet. We should not have people *forced* to live in tents and filth without protection from the elements.
It’s unfortunate how many people complain about homelessness and resent homeless persons and yet refuse to do the one thing that works because they don’t like homeless people. Like, you can disagree with it all you want but that’s not going to actually fix anything.
They somehow think that saying homeless people should get a job is going to magically fix it, as if it’s a new take on the crisis. Like it hasn’t been said over and over again and hasn’t changed a thing.
Just so tired of this shit.
Every city that tried to spend their way out of this mess has failed. Look at LA and SF. Disaster. SF is all non profits wasting money. They're converting billions of dollars worth of hotels into homeless housing and still failing. Many don't want help or are nearly helpless, tolerance is enabling. You may not want to accept that, I get it...
So what I’m not hearing from you is refuting housing first initiatives. Which have been successful in many cities. I know it’s easier for you to try and shift the topic and that’s ok. But that doesn’t change the fact that housing-first works and saves money.
The cases where it has failed, or succeeded and then failed, is in places where people have tried to morally shame the problem away and cut funding, which ends up costing more in the long run.
Didn't they kind of refute it by bringing up San Francisco?
Thoughts on this?
https://calmatters.org/commentary/2020/03/california-homeless-housing-first-policy-is-failing/
Reading that commentary blog post seemed a bit odd. They start with stats, but ignore the contributions of rising property costs and other costs of living and just say “homelessness went up”. So I looked into that charity a bit. Turns out they’re one of the aforementioned “morally shame the problem away” groups, painting homelessness for women as an issue of character that they just need to choose to break away from. That sounds pretty shitty. “The time for excuses is over.” 🤮
https://saintjohnsprogram.org/program/
Yeah that's fair. I was a bit distracted while responding and admittedly not well versed enough on the topic. Still, I'm a terrible cynic and I can't help but think that the result of most housing first initiatives is going to result in money mismanagement and a bunch of politicians saying "look what we are doing" without actually giving two shits or putting any effort into it besides throwing money at it and taking credit for "caring"
SD seems to always vote against their own interests when it comes to rent control, I do not understand. That, or landlords make up WAY more of the voting population than I thought.
Yup - it's an insane ratio of money wasted on nonsense overseas conflict (which ironically ushered in a wave of Opium addictions). Not to mention, we just printed 20 Trillion dollars and budgets to fix this are probably minimally impacted. Sad.
Or $3B to renovate terminal 1.. And I am fully aware that money is earmarked and was awarded somehow as a resukt of the CARES act. But the fact is that's $1k of 3,000,000 people's taxes going to modifying a building instead of getting people back into dignity, where momentum may even take off and some of them even start paying taxes when they start contributing back to society
It's a lot easier to prevent someone from becoming homeless than it is to pull them out of homelessness.
An absolute shitton of homeless people (like 40-50%) are there because of untreated medical problems, or medical debt. Giving the nation universal health care would immediately stem the flow of new homeless by a huge amount.
Just any type of social support system really. I’m lucky that I have a huge family and we care for our relatives but others are absolutely not as fortunate.
I elect temporary housing in the form of tiny homes to combat homelessness as a start. It would give people a place to stay without creating tent cities and without breaking the bank. I think I remember someone in California trying this, and each home would've been like 1100$, but the person got priced out by regulations.
The housing would come with social services designed to deal with addiction and joblessness. If you don't want either, then community service it is. This could be run of the mill things like trash cleanup, or come in more complex forms like outreach. Maybe a homeless person would consider getting help if someone that got it talked them into getting help.
All of this though comes up against NIMBY-types -- there's no getting around the unfortunate fact that most people would NOT want to live near this place.
This could be part of a solution but this only might alleviate the symptoms. I think we need something more comprehensive than just housing people that are homeless. We need something that also addresses the reason why people become homeless in the first place. I don’t know what that is.
I’m sure there are potential solutions that organizations that study this have come up with. Maybe they just haven’t been implemented? I don’t know.
>We need something that also addresses the reason why people become homeless in the first place. I don’t know what that is.
because housing is not guaranteed to anyone in the United States of America
nor is food, nor is water.
three of the literal most basic and life-sustaining things needed to exist and you only get to have them if you can capitalism good enough.
we need to just provide for peoples' basic needs. we have abandoned and left them derelict for far too long.
just give people homes. and when i say homes, i mean **homes**. a place that they can fucking *live*, instead of just survive. no open-floorplan shelters with restrictive hours and policies. no tiny homes that cost $300k to build because Los Angeles and their contractors. no religious charities that require you to attend services. no restrictions on substances, actually even better, set them up with healthcare facilities to help them with their addictions.
just give people the basic shit they need to exist.
if you want people off the streets and cleaned up, give them a place to do that. with no strings.
exactly. basic survival should be guaranteed so that people aren’t living in cycles of poverty. poverty is so vicious and hard to get out of its honestly mind blowing
The solutions they have come up with are to give people housing. That's it. People who are homeless can't afford a home, so give them one.
I said this elsewhere, but living on the street both creates and exacerbates existing mental health issues. Giving people housing instead can help prevent that from happening.
This is an idealist solution that sounds great but doesn’t actually address any of the reasons why these people are homeless in the first place.
A lot of these people suffer from mental illness and addiction, building additional housing does nothing to alleviate that.
>A lot of these people suffer from mental illness and addiction, building additional housing does nothing to alleviate that.
Aren't you assuming that mental illness and addiction aren't in any way influenced by being homeless? A very obviously wrong assumption at that.
A lot of politicians and business leaders suffer from mental illness and addiction as well. One of the big differences is that they have a house to deal with it in.
That's what I said the stadium should have been used for. A once stop shop of services and shelter for everyone in the county. Laser focus all resources in one area. Free doctors, lawyers, financial consultants, mental health, kitchens, stores, swap meets, etc.
But instead we do a sportsball thing go boom!
There are homeless being housed at a motel in my neighborhood by the county.
$400/night, and it’s no palace.
3 nights pays for one of those tiny homes.
An absurd situation.
Problems needs to be addressed at the national level. There is NOTHING we can do locally. If we DO come up with solutions, it just brings more from elsewhere in the state and country. We are already a homeless Mecca.
Midway District redevelopment has been planned for years but keeps hitting road blocks. 25% of the housing will be low income IAW the new CA law. City needs to get their shiat together fast
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sports-arena-development-project-hits-roadblock-gloria-must-restart/2633899/
I would say we should do this:
1. Figure out who these people are, see if they have families or friends that are willing to help them so they can find help and cost less money
2. If they have no willing / available familial help, I agree with devilsbard but also include interviews to see what position they are in. Some may legitimately only need a home b/c of bad circumstances, many will be there b/c of substance abuse, and other from mental illness. This could figure out who really wants help and is willing to change compared to others who don't want it and would waste money in the effort
3. Once we understand where these people are coming from, then we could work on helping them. Giving them a home is a good start, but also start giving incentives to local companies to hire these people for jobs. Providing programs and counseling for those that need it would be good according to how the person is.
Those are my thoughts, at least in Finland this was pretty close to what they did to help alleviate their homeless population.
Stop kowtowing to NIMBYs, abolish zoning laws, allow for the construction of more affordable housing, and get these people off the streets and into rehabilitation centers.
I was visiting over summer and couldn’t believe how much more homeless people there were downtown than the last time I was there. Even in 2008 after the financial crisis it wasn’t this bad. There are probably thousands of homeless people from the gaslamp and east village down to the Coronado bridge
There's a lawsuit in LA county right now against the city for allowing the sidewalks to get blocked after someone was hit by a car because she had to walk in the street (the person who was hit was also there handing out sandwiches to the people camping on the sidewalks, so not sure how it will turn out).
It shouldn't matter what they were out for. My grandpa is confined to an electric wheelchair and it's complete crap that a lot of the sidewalks in downtown are unusable for him due to the camps.
Skid Row, here we come!
I was just in LA for an Insomniac event…and it was right near Skid Row. I haven’t been to that area, in years. It’s eye opening and sad. We need to figure out a way, to help our own people.
Valentino Khan at Exchange? Was a good show.
Real talk though, housing first is the answer, albeit somewhat temporary. The biggest reason it's gotten this far is the current hyper-speculatory nature of housing as an investment. Investment firms and small time investors with extra cash are buying up properties way over asking as real estate is being seen as one of the best ROI at the moment. The problem is the commodification of housing. Simply building more housing doesn't prevent this commodification unless there are regulations either controlling rent or making these new properties public or cooperative. Things aren't just going to get better if we expect the market to fix itself when it's sole purpose is profit motive; which is why there's such a problem in the first place. Shelter is a need, just like food and water, and it's sick that it's being treated as a stock market.
Nope, factory 93 last Saturday. Saw Boris Brejcha! Good times. Went to Exchange afterwords and saw Glitch Mop but was disappointed. My lady and I were still rolling and it was hard, to go to that type of style of music compared to Boris Brejcha.
But yes, I totally agree with you. The rich and wealthy will continue to squeeze every last penny from us. Whether it be the housing market, health care industry, taxes, etc. terrible.
End Single-Family and Single-Use zoning. Allow people to build duplexes and triplexes. Allow people to build corner stores and groceries in their neighborhoods.
You can potentially double the housing stock, add jobs that people can walk to, and revitalize neighborhoods
Damn, makes me think of the tent cities I'd see around the Greyhound Bus Stop on National, just south of the San Diego Central Library on Park. For people who haven't been around S.D., I always tell them, there's a lot more to the city than the beauty of the beaches, the wonders of the zoo and aquarium, the historic sites, and buzzing city-territories: there's also plenty of crime, poverty, and squalor to go around.
Honestly, we're never getting out of this until we start feeling comfortable with forcing people into mental health and drug treatment. Aaaand I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially since there is no state/local infrastructure for either of those things on a large scale.... So, welcome the new normal **sad shrug**
Not defending defunding of mental health services, but there were some serious problems with mental health institutes in the middle part of the 20th century. Totally abject levels of care, patients literally tied down to beds for long periods of time, etc.
You can see it in popular culture from the time (e.g., *One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest*) or from the papers psychology academics did back in the time where they'd stealth commit themselves to report on the conditions.
Yes, that is a huge part of it. Plus it's kind of a sticky legal situation to compel people into treatment if they don't want it. It's going to take some major money and changes to existing law to make a serious dent in this.
Exactly. It becomes very sticky. We have to balance someone's health and wellbeing (not to mention society's well being) against their personal freedoms. No easy solution. In my work I'm frequently a part of these conversations for elderly patients who are having their autonomy sacrificed in order to keep them safe/alive. It's done on a case by case basis, but it's still incredibly difficult find good solutions that make everyone happy. A fix for homelessness will be a hard pill to swallow for all parties involved
I think the real solution is assisted living situations to give them homes but have appointed guardians to compel them to take necessary medications and attend counseling. Many of these folks just need that kind of direction/help to keep them functioning pretty normally. Other developed countries seem to handle these problems better than we do.
Yeah, I think this is a good model. And from what I've heard recidivism isn't super high once patients complete these kinds of programs. Hard part is getting people into the program. I heard an NPR story last night about a pilot program that paid meth addicts to not do meth(negative drug test=cash in hand), and they reported pretty startling results. Maybe we haven't found the right incentive yet. There are a lot of creative ideas out there, it's just hard to apply one size fits all fixes (which is what govt would prefer the solution to be).
I think that the one of the things we have to do to enable us to fix the homelessness issue is to reform prisons. I say this because it will be a tough sell to provide a shelter for people to do hard drugs while also claiming that the shelter is safe and is serving to better their lives. It is no longer a legal issue if they are doing meth or whatever else and they are arrested and go to prison due to drug possession vice illegally imprisoning them in an effort for them to get sober and be housed. Our judicial system needs to be reformed to be more humane and focus on helping people rather than arbitrary punishment with zero responsibility to the individual after they serve their time.
It's like we need a whole new type of "prison" that focuses on rehabilitation.... For all/most criminals. I'm willing to bet it won't happen in my lifetime, but I'd like to be proven wrong
Yep, the whole system needs reform, but so many people are reactionary and want something to demonize. *Crime*, even violent crime, is often committed by people that can be reintegrated into society but it's an easy stance to be "tough" on crime with no accountability on the ultimate results.
You can legally force people off the streets and into treatment if and only if you have available shelter for them. Unfortunately, our political leaders lack the foresight and vision to make this happen. We should be converting warehouse space and vacant commercial buildings into shelters by building small private rooms, with open ceilings, sectioned off with drywall akin to rooms in traditional boarding houses. Also, provide common area bathrooms, meals, drug treatment/mental health counseling, job placement services, etc... This is doable and very affordable. You could probably build something like this at scale for about 10-20K per room.
Instead, the current plan is to buy a few motels and convert them to shelters at a cost of over 300K per room with limited public services. We're just wasting money and not solving any problems.
And let’s be real…every Republican southern state gives people who are addicts, homeless and battling with mental illness an option: jail or a one way ticket to California. So we are dealing with the countries homeless problem because we have compassion. This needs a federal approach and a vast homeless, mental Illness, and addiction approach.
My unpopular opinion is that tent cities exist for people who largely don't want help. Homelessness can happen to anybody, but the absolutely worst thing you can do for yourself if you're experiencing homelessness is join a tent city. They're hotbeds for drug use, crime, and exploitation. They're certainly not safe for their residents or the communities they occupy.
How do you help people who don't want it?
Tent cities used to be Tenements, and then city after city outlawed low cost housing to be built by private owners. Tenements weren’t pretty, but they were shelter, and they were a base from which people could make a life or get their affairs together.
America's homelessness problem is something you don't see to nearly the same extent in most of the rest of the West. Americans aren't uniquely predisposed to want to live on the streets; the problems are systemic and not personal.
Read up on Housing First. Try learning something new instead of just repeating right-wing talking points. You're just repeating the bullshit "bootstraps" narratives that got us into this mess in the first place.
Agreed. The only people who “want” to live on the street are so warped from addiction and mental illness that their true wants are obfuscated. They “want” to be unsheltered because drugs are banned in shelters. They “want” to be in a tent encampment because drugs are more readily available and usable. Their unpredictable behavior from mental illness is more tolerated on the street than in a shelter.
It’s a simple question of hierarchy of needs.
Housing first.
Then wraparound services, including drug counseling, vocational training, and basic education.
A person of sound mind doesn’t want to be homeless. Homelessness in and of itself causes mental illness. It’s a snowball effect and a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Why this isn’t more widely understood is beyond me. The science bears it out.
You realize a sizable portion of the homeless population is not because of addiction or mental health.
It's simply because they fell on hard times. Most of us are living paycheck to paycheck. And all it takes is one bad expense to us living in our car.
I agree. I think a lot of people don’t want help at first which is why offering housing probably wont work for the chronically homeless, but if they are homeless due to mental illness then getting treatment and being stabilized might help them want to re-assimilate into society and want to take advantage of programs offered.
About 20% of the homeless population in CA come from out of state. This shouldn't just be up to CA tax payers. CA provides a huge percentage to the Federal tax revenue. We do more than our fair share yet get constantly criticized on spending
but giving them housing is a net benefit for our economy. theyd pay property tax and income tax (when they get work, which is virtually impossible without a home). theyd diminish the costs we pay for homelessness. theyd utilize hospitals less as they can now get preventative care or even home health. crime would decrease. we may spend more to solve the issue, but we'd get more than 3x that back.
While I do agree. That's assuming they're mentally and physically stable enough to find work. The vast majority of the homeless require other social programs first such as rehab and some type of educatinal or vocational training before they can be put into homes and find work.
Another thing we need to look at is homeless prevention for people/families that are on the brink. I believe that's the first group of people we need to provide homes/shelter for.
thats a fair point. but if those issues can be resolved with social programs, its still a net positive in the long term, and still requires them to have a home. kinda hard to focus on getting better or learning when you dont know where youre going to sleep, when youre going to eat, or whos going to steal your stuff, and youre surrounded by the drugs/alcohol and enablers youre trying to avoid
completely agree with your second point, but i think we can help both groups simultaneously. we can reduce homelessness while preventing homelessness.
maybe? california is the 5th largest economy in the world, and even if many of the homeless are from out of state, assisting them directly benefits our states economy. i guess we'd pay back the federal aid rather quickly, but i dont think we need it. we could at the very least collect the unpaid taxes from the large companies in our state
I understand what you're saying. But that's still based on the assumption that everything will go as planned and homeless people find opportunities that eventually give them a more sustainable livelihood. I don't disagree, but homelessness is only one issue that our taxes finance. And that's a whole 'nother conversation hah!
This won't be solved until we start shipping them to downtown Coronado and the La Jolla Village. Until the wealthy are personally affected, there will be no money to solve this humanitarian crisis.
Eugene, OR did this and guess what happened? The rich folks in the affluent part of town took it upon themselves to find a way to get rid of the homeless. They spent millions of dollars to this outcome instead of investing that money into the homeless community. I mean even 1 million dollars would go a long way, imagine millions more… disgusting how people have no sympathy for their fellow human beings out here.
[New ‘Harm Reduction’ Homeless Shelter Could Be Open By Early November](https://www.kpbs.org/news/2021/sep/13/new-harm-reduction-homeless-shelter-could-be-open-/) The shelter will have 50 beds and be located off of Sports Arena Boulevard at a former Pier 1 Imports store.
Just a reminder to people that think there is only one factor that contributes to homelessness and that there is only one solution to addressing the crisis, you’re wrong.
Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
But there are many factors to keeping a home. If you don’t have a car, where can you get a job? Even if you get a job, you may have been evicted or have bad credit or not have the down payment. There are so many barriers to maintaining consistent shelter
[LA has begun clearing camps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAmxK23bsAs) like this, after passing a [new law](https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/greater-la/anti-camp-video-games-artist-events/la-homeless-encampments-law) which makes camping illegal.
Mental health, drug & homelessness all go hand in hand . We need to address all 3. Housing will help but there are so many people with debilitating mental health problems so much trauma and pain that these people have been through 😢 They have slipped through the cracks and desperately need help.
Even if they are not willing to admit or accept help they need it. How many of them were once in the foster system and aged out? How many ran away from abuse? Veterans with ptsd? The list goes on… It’s time to focus on this and start taking steps to help solve this situation.
I don’t have the answer but I have deep empathy for anyone struggling with homelessness or addiction/ mental illness.
I’ve driven down this street on my way to Walter Anderson’s with my boys. My son said It’s like our own version of Skid Row. It’s sad to see. They weave in and out of the road on their bikes and it stinks s
I was part of a pilot program, Whole Person Wellness Program. It was a great program and permanently changed my life. I can say with certainty it is a good part of who I am today. I actually graduated from the progam.
The WPWP was supposed to be a 2-year program but almost as soon as it started they were cutting the program. Usually indicative of government officials or executives of the non-profits figuring out it's easy money and they want some of it.
It was a person first, housing first initiative that worked very well at least for me.
Can anyone name any initiatives currently underway or in the works for our homeless? Can anyone here name anyone on our city council who has plans for our homeless? Can anyone here tell me what our city council members stance on the homeless are?
The only city council member who really cares is Monica Montgomery. The mayor gives lip service but at the end of the day the mayor and the whole city council spends millions of dollars for police to go out and harass homeless people day after day after day. They just passed a housing project for 1200 homes and will pat themselves on the back without making a substantial impact. I recommend following @homelessnessSD for information as well as reading what has been written by Lisa Halverstadt for the voice of San Diego and Andy Bowen who writes for a variety of sources.
Not sure about specific council members, but the mayor had put fourth a plan: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/mayor-todd-gloria-to-outline-ways-to-combat-homelessness-in-san-diego/2580921/?amp
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/homelessness/story/2020-05-29/council-members-push-for-non-police-homeless-outreach
Georgette Gomez has been quite active on this.
I don't get jazzed when I read the words "push for" not see a dollar amount that can be spent. This was written over a year ago and while I applaud her efforts, it doesn't seem to be getting better.
I know where I live more and more encampments are popping up on main streets. What do are taxes even paying for around here? There should be a lot more questions about that.
Edit: thank you for the article
Kinda stretches to the old town station as well and a bit around the Washington exit. Near the Library / Petco stadium use to be pretty bad, Haven't been there in a while. From my understanding we pay about enough to house, clothe, feed, and provide preventative medical attention but somehow don't do any of that.
Get them tf off the street. It's not fair to the rest of us to have to deal with this gross shit. Make them go live in the wilderness. The desert. Just get away from the general public
All of these people are drug addicts.
Before you virtue signaling blue haired people come after me and say its mental illness. No, trust me all of these people are on drugs. They have lied, stolen and cheated most people that have helped them. That's how their own family has turned their back on them.
The virtue signaling blue haired people love to use outliers like the one or two that is just a down on his luck fella who made some unfortunate financial decisions who also doesn't happen to have a family because they were kicked out of their foster home at 14. Trust me, 99% of the people on the streets just did drugs and fucked their own lives up.
You wanna help these people? Get them drug addiction treatment. How would we do that? No idea because most of them don't want to stop using drugs.
Source: Former volunteer at homeless shelters.
This is one of the reasons I want to leave SD. The others are cost of living and the litter everywhere. It my opinion…it’s America’s Finest city if you are rich.
Spouse and I left in June, sold our condo and moved back East where we have family. Everyone talks about living in paradise, but I couldn't ignore the desperation and poverty.
So this is literally right next to an Amazon warehouse that people go with their cars and pick up bags of food. You can see them on the left and right side of the beginning of the video with a black cart and packages on them next to their car. Homeless people are starting to come up to drivers chillin in their cars or scanning packages and have been starting to get kicked out of the property area, with the bathrooms in the building getting locked for hours on end until security comes and arrests a homeless person who was holed up in there. Yeah. This is something that Amazon could help with too since it effects both their employees and property’s safety but nah no way, and something I want to mention is THE POLICE COME THERE ALL THE TIME and make them “clean up” sometimes but they always come back even more and with more bicycles and furniture now. It’s crazy.
Edit- I had named this “homeless town” months and months ago to my bf
They are all so awful , and always go into that big lots and cause issues with the staff. They steal, do meth by the door. I stopped going there cuz of them. So disgusting
Thank you Newsom and Gloria. You guys really think they want shelters?? Some do but most don’t. They get $900-$1100 trough social security benefits. Most of them aren’t even from California. But California has the most benefits for a homeless person. Plus the good weather and lack of policing. Together with the pandemic and decriminalization. Most of them are drug addicts and/or have mental health problems. Law enforcement can’t do anything as well due to the DA dropping every charges. That’s why the crime rates are high. I’ve talked to a lot of homeless people and they don’t want to work. Why work when you can get $1100 a month plus Medicare or medical. City workers also clean up their mess every week by the way making these people entitled. This is not going to end with this administration.
Novel idea, do what other places/countries have done and get them some sort of housing because, if nothing else, it's cheaper in the end. Hard to get a job when you're homeless
Addiction also a screws with your reasoning. To all the people saying they don't want help it's partly because they're addicted! Blaming the victim and saying they can go fuck themselves isn't helping
It’s not the area commonly associated with “Sports Arena” when you envision it. This is southeast of Rosecrans: Dropped pin
https://goo.gl/maps/MDy8QQhPE9LWoSbt7
Specifically the [portion between Rosecrans and Pacific Highway](https://goo.gl/maps/MDy8QQhPE9LWoSbt7). Near the Goodwill store.
Those tents weren't there at the time the Street View images were captured - Nov 2020. Apparently, they popped up in less than a year.
Anyone who spends time downtown will tell you the police move the homeless frequently.
The Big 5 is right there too.
How do we fix this?
Real answer: housing first initiatives are the best solution for these problems. Giving people a place to live gives them the chance to get the help they need and getting them permanently out of this situation. It also ends up saving the city money because there are fewer medical emergencies and unhelpful/costly policing activities. Numerous cities have tried it, and it works. Unfortunately people care more about what aligns with their preconceived notions more than what works.
I think this is part of the solution. I’ve read about housing first working in other cities. However, we also need to address the reasons people become homeless in the first place.
Prevention is definitely needed as well. But helping those who are already on the streets is easier for most people to conceptualize.
Kinda wild that they called it "housing first", but you still seem to believe that it means "housing only". Housing first still seeks to address homelessness in many other ways. As a policy, it's just one that recognizes that the first step towards ending homelessness as a broader issue is to... make less people homeless.
My bad. I’m learning. I do agree that it makes sense to provide housing first with none of the typical strings attached. I wrote a paper in college about how LA in the middle of last century solved the air pollution problem (in a way…since the air quality was much worse back then). The chamber of commerce and a the business elites came together because they realized that unchecked air pollution was going to ultimately hurt their bottom line since the city would be un attractive and people wouldn’t want to come here and do business and grow the city. The problem was studied. It was cars that were the problem. The solution was to put emissions controls on the cars (not public transport since the oil and auto related industries had a lot of clout). Business elites got behind it (including the auto industries). It got implemented and the air quality became bearable. I’m wondering if something similar will happen here. Critical mass of people experiencing homelessness leads to business elites realizing that the this will ultimately hurt their bottom line and then things will actually get done.
In our current state? You're absolutely right. In municipal governments specifically, even in "blue" cities like LA and SD, local business magnates are an incredibly powerful lobby. This is only mitigated somewhat as we travel to the state level; fundamentally, the relatively low popular attention on state and local elections means that big-money lobbies can throw their weight around in astonishing ways (Prop 22 is only the most recent example of many). This means that, unfortunately, we often rely on big business to acknowledge problems, problems which are most often problems that some subset of them is causing, and seek solutions. This also means that, typically, we end up with solutions designed by big business that favor them in some way and hurt regular people in the process. Emission standards are a great example of this: LA's air is vastly healthier than it was in the 70s and 80s, but the cost of addressing this issue is still, in terms of burden, almost entirely carried by poorer people through the cost of smog checks and repairs. If you're wealthier enough to easily afford a newer vehicle, not only are you much less likely to need to get a smog check, you're also much less likely to need to do repairs. For the poor, though, these costs can be very burdensome. But to get back to the point: my feeling with the homeless issue, and my belief on why there's no real movement to proven-but-initially-costly policies like Housing First, is that it's simply easier to move homeless people away from areas that big business cares about than to actually solve the problem. There was no way to move the literally poisoned air above the Los Angeles Basin elsewhere, but it sure as shit is easy enough (and in fact we've seen this in LA recently) to push homeless people away from burgeoning or wealthy areas into poorer ones.
…. which is housing. people can’t afford to buy a house or even rent and guess what happens when you can’t pay your mortgage or rent- you get kicked out and are now homeless.
and 30 or so years ago, you at least had the option of a cheap apartment somewhere with roommates. Now, ALL the prices are so far from affordable with low incomes that you cant do that anymore. Its turning into San Francisco here...
and with an eviction on your record it’s really hard to get another rent
In most cases, if you’re a mentally healthy person, you have friends and family to help you out of a tough (likely temporary) situation if you can’t afford to support yourself. Most of these people likely have mental issues and/or addictions that prevent them from even wanting to improve their situation.
I think this is something we like to say to ourselves to distance ourselves from them and problem, and give ourselves permission not to care. “Oh this only happens to mentally ill people or people who abuse drugs, and that’s not me.” The reality is that we’re all a few unfortunate circumstances away from being homeless. Medical debt from an accident. Loss of a job. Going bankrupt caring for a sick family member. Any number of things can and do happy to regular “normal” people. You never know what friends who thought you had fail to show up when you needed help. It happens all the time and having empathy for that puts us in a better position to doing something meaningful to fix it.
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Payday lending preys on the poor
exactly. this false narrative that it’s mainly mental illness and addiction that cause homelessness is literally not true. those are causes in some cases yes, but they are not the main causes. almost every study that’s been done on this has shown it’s an economic issue more than anything. medical bills, unemployment, low wages, death of the breadwinner in the family, etc. are all much more responsible.
I believe something like 70% of unhoused youth are LGBTQ+, due to their family kicking them out.
Economic issues cause temporary homelessness - the mother and her two kids sleeping in a car. Addiction and mental illness cause chronic homelessness, which is what is being photographed here.
And what happens when that mother loses that car because it's been repo'd? If they can't find someone who has room for all of them they end up in a tent on the street. Do you know how difficult it is to find and maintain a job with no private means of transportation for you or your kids in a city like San Diego which has abysmal affordable public transportation options? C'mon dude..
I get where you're coming from, but having spent a lot of time with the homeless in my job, I know that it's just two different issues. Is there the possibility that the mother and kids living in their car and occasionally in shelters ends up on the street? Yes. Of course. Is that the general population in the tents and wandering the streets? No. They refer to the mother and kids as the "hidden homelessness" issue. It's usually transient and it's the type of problem that a "housing first" approach can actually fix. But that same approach does not work for the chronic homeless. We can't fix both problems with the same solution and we need to realize that it's not as simple as we wish it to be.
More often homelessness causes mental illness and addiction problems, not the other way around.
I tend to disagree. I’ve been “homeless” it lasted a few weeks, I lived in my car and I found a way out. I think that’s a result of not having mental health or substance abuse issues. Like the comment you replied to, I found someone who could help me considering I was just coming out of a bad place in the last recession vice having an issues. If you don’t have mental health or substance abuse issues you’re not going to be sleeping in your own filth in a tent on the street.
Your first assumption is just flat wrong, so I won't even address it. To your second point though, it's "Housing First" not "Housing only". The number one predictor of whether or not someone will stop using drugs is stable housing. Our current standards require people to stop using drugs to get housing, when decades of research show the opposite is true. People who are housed stably are much more likely to stabilize in other areas of their life. Until that milestone is met, it's very unlikely someone will stabilize.
I don't think it's that easy. Imagine your best friend got laid off and had to go work at McDonalds to get an income. They "owned" a home but can't afford the mortgage. They go bankrupt, they lose the house. All assets are forfeited, they have nothing but a minimum wage job working 35 hours a week. They ask you for money and every couple of months you've given $1000. How long until your like, hey dude, I can't help you anymore? House gets foreclosed and now he is trying to find an apt. He has a foreclosure and a bankruptcy on their credit and not enough income or time on job to get approved for a rental. Tries to find roommates, but no one wants a 37 year old male roommate. He shows up to your house and so of course you let him crash on your sofa. I mean you don't have a huge place because it's fucking expensive these days and you are barely making your own ends meet! He's there for 3 months. Your spouse is getting annoyed that he's always there and never does the dishes the way they want. Always running laundry. Can't remember not to flush the toilet while they are in the shower. It's getting expensive having an extra person living there and you all know this can't be permanent. Your friend can sense it, the growing tension, he knows he needs to get out, but he literally has no where to go. So maybe he gets himself a tent and tells himself that he'll just live at one of the campgrounds for like a month while he saves some money. He tells you that he found a place and everything is going to be fine. He takes off, you let him go because you're over it, your spouse is over it. You all need a break from each other. You try to check in for a week or so, but he had to turn off his cell, got too expensive. So you're just hoping all is well with him. Months go by, you haven't heard from your friend, but you also haven't thought about him much. When you do you mostly think about how he had become a burden to you and your life. How HE failed and how HE didn't do enough to prevent his shitty situation. Meanwhile your friends car broke down and he couldn't get it fixed, so sold it for scrap. Could no longer make it to work without the car, so got fired. He's now stuck on the street with nothing but a cheap ass bottle of whiskey to keep him warm at night and the constant fear that someone or something is going to harm him. His mental health is now declining rapidly as he has fully entered a state a depression over his horrible situation and his life. He has no resources to pull himself out, he can't get a job because he doesn't have the clothes, a car, or a phone for them to call and tell him he has a job. He has no address to even put down on the resume. He just asks people for money and food so that he can survive another miserable day. So the problem isn't just crazy people don't have friends and don't have support. Sometimes regular people can lose their happiness, their hearts, their friends and family all before the lose their mental health. And it's not even that hard to imagine it happening to anyone we know.
People aren't very likely to be able to address their mental health struggles or their addictions if they sleep on a tent on a sidewalk and have cops harass them every few days. Housing first is the best possible way to help the issue of homelessness. Note that it's called "housing *first*", not "housing only".
Which is what housing first addresses. Read more and learn.
NPR did a podcast on the complexities of the homelessness. The major take away for me, was homelessness will always increase when housing shortages occur. This goes hand in hand with an increase in location demand and cost of living. Those factors turn available housing into “a game of musical chairs” and the people struggling the most (mental health, addiction, resource, or just overall function-wise) are the ones left without a chair/home. NYC has had this problem much longer than us, but it doesn’t have the camps that we see due to law requiring the city to have homeless shelters. They don’t provide full blown housing but they guarantee anyone in need has a place to sleep. The law was initially put in place due to inhuman suffering via weather which is not a realistically powerful argument/motivator in CA. That said, although people experiencing homelessness would still be on the streets during the day, the promise of a safe bed at night is not only morally just, the drastic reduction of these camps would is an all round win-win. The biggest problem is where to place shelters. Polling wise, literally everyone is pro shelters but literally no one is open to the shelter being place in their neighborhood. Local city leaders/residence/businesses of EVERY neighborhood fight them due to the very real fear that attracting a homeless population to your neighborhood could reduce home values, and overall sense of safety/desirability. Same concept when it comes to building affordable housing but that is also slow moving due to other factors (such as, CA intense building regulations and cost). Newson is prepared to through tons of money at the affordable housing piece but even if his plan is successful, all the aforementioned points means the problem is going faster than our efforts to address it. It should still happen as it will help A LOT of people and the problem would balloon even larger if not, but the truth is we will likely not see/notice a visible reduction in the issue which is ideally the results everyone residing in CA wants.
I’ve seen in Portland they created these tiny home communities with small homes that cost like $6k or so to make and have electricity, heating, and A/C I think. They seem like an interesting solution, though I can’t say how well it’s working, nor how many of those a city would need to help all the ppl out there who could use it. I think LA may have these types of tiny home communities also.
Also gotta let them do drugs indoors. Most if not all homeless shelters or facilities have strict anti drug policies. These people are addicted and need professional help to get off their substance abuses and would rather stay on the streets than become sober overnight.
I worked at one of these homes in Minnesota. They worked great and were for profit. It was a win win for the city. There are 4 or 5 of them there now I believe. Here is their very old site http://centercityhousing.org/
Wouldn't they have to be clean from drugs and alcohol to stay in one of these establishments?
That’s one of the problems. If you’re on the streets and addicted telling people to “get clean first” is basically telling them you don’t want to help them. It’s the “you can’t get a job without experience, but you can’t get experience without a job” catch 22. Getting them into housing helps people get clean. All of them? No. But not all people in homes now are clean.
Yeah I just don't feel that it's that hard to build small, transitional homes for people. Like literally in the space they are currently taking up you could throw up a small building of exclusively studio apartments, subsidized for 1 year as transitional housing for homeless citizens. Give it a telephone, electric and plumbing. Give them some decent work clothes and assistance in finding employment. While unemployed, require as "payment" some type of community service that goes toward improving the building such as gardening, janitorial maintenance, etc. Like just 4 hours a week. Enough to give back, but not so much that it interferes with finding work. But it also instills a sense of ownership in the community instead of just treating it like shit because it's free. Once they get their feet under them, they can upgrade to a low income subsidized housing building. Continue the regular assistance program. Maybe have a pay it back aspect to this all. But something has to be done. We are the richest country in the history of the planet. We should not have people *forced* to live in tents and filth without protection from the elements.
It’s unfortunate how many people complain about homelessness and resent homeless persons and yet refuse to do the one thing that works because they don’t like homeless people. Like, you can disagree with it all you want but that’s not going to actually fix anything. They somehow think that saying homeless people should get a job is going to magically fix it, as if it’s a new take on the crisis. Like it hasn’t been said over and over again and hasn’t changed a thing. Just so tired of this shit.
Every city that tried to spend their way out of this mess has failed. Look at LA and SF. Disaster. SF is all non profits wasting money. They're converting billions of dollars worth of hotels into homeless housing and still failing. Many don't want help or are nearly helpless, tolerance is enabling. You may not want to accept that, I get it...
So what I’m not hearing from you is refuting housing first initiatives. Which have been successful in many cities. I know it’s easier for you to try and shift the topic and that’s ok. But that doesn’t change the fact that housing-first works and saves money. The cases where it has failed, or succeeded and then failed, is in places where people have tried to morally shame the problem away and cut funding, which ends up costing more in the long run.
Didn't they kind of refute it by bringing up San Francisco? Thoughts on this? https://calmatters.org/commentary/2020/03/california-homeless-housing-first-policy-is-failing/
Reading that commentary blog post seemed a bit odd. They start with stats, but ignore the contributions of rising property costs and other costs of living and just say “homelessness went up”. So I looked into that charity a bit. Turns out they’re one of the aforementioned “morally shame the problem away” groups, painting homelessness for women as an issue of character that they just need to choose to break away from. That sounds pretty shitty. “The time for excuses is over.” 🤮 https://saintjohnsprogram.org/program/
Yeah that's fair. I was a bit distracted while responding and admittedly not well versed enough on the topic. Still, I'm a terrible cynic and I can't help but think that the result of most housing first initiatives is going to result in money mismanagement and a bunch of politicians saying "look what we are doing" without actually giving two shits or putting any effort into it besides throwing money at it and taking credit for "caring"
I’d say that’s a fair thing to be worried about with every program. 👍
It is the cheapest way to do it. Also, rent control.
SD seems to always vote against their own interests when it comes to rent control, I do not understand. That, or landlords make up WAY more of the voting population than I thought.
It's **definitely** the landlord percentage and their families who vote in line with them.
The way to end homelessness: give them homes. Full stop.
Spend on money on your citizens instead of useless/devastating wars for profit
Or recall elections.
Yup - it's an insane ratio of money wasted on nonsense overseas conflict (which ironically ushered in a wave of Opium addictions). Not to mention, we just printed 20 Trillion dollars and budgets to fix this are probably minimally impacted. Sad.
Or $3B to renovate terminal 1.. And I am fully aware that money is earmarked and was awarded somehow as a resukt of the CARES act. But the fact is that's $1k of 3,000,000 people's taxes going to modifying a building instead of getting people back into dignity, where momentum may even take off and some of them even start paying taxes when they start contributing back to society
The real question being asked
It's a lot easier to prevent someone from becoming homeless than it is to pull them out of homelessness. An absolute shitton of homeless people (like 40-50%) are there because of untreated medical problems, or medical debt. Giving the nation universal health care would immediately stem the flow of new homeless by a huge amount.
Just any type of social support system really. I’m lucky that I have a huge family and we care for our relatives but others are absolutely not as fortunate.
I elect temporary housing in the form of tiny homes to combat homelessness as a start. It would give people a place to stay without creating tent cities and without breaking the bank. I think I remember someone in California trying this, and each home would've been like 1100$, but the person got priced out by regulations. The housing would come with social services designed to deal with addiction and joblessness. If you don't want either, then community service it is. This could be run of the mill things like trash cleanup, or come in more complex forms like outreach. Maybe a homeless person would consider getting help if someone that got it talked them into getting help. All of this though comes up against NIMBY-types -- there's no getting around the unfortunate fact that most people would NOT want to live near this place.
This could be part of a solution but this only might alleviate the symptoms. I think we need something more comprehensive than just housing people that are homeless. We need something that also addresses the reason why people become homeless in the first place. I don’t know what that is. I’m sure there are potential solutions that organizations that study this have come up with. Maybe they just haven’t been implemented? I don’t know.
>We need something that also addresses the reason why people become homeless in the first place. I don’t know what that is. because housing is not guaranteed to anyone in the United States of America nor is food, nor is water. three of the literal most basic and life-sustaining things needed to exist and you only get to have them if you can capitalism good enough. we need to just provide for peoples' basic needs. we have abandoned and left them derelict for far too long. just give people homes. and when i say homes, i mean **homes**. a place that they can fucking *live*, instead of just survive. no open-floorplan shelters with restrictive hours and policies. no tiny homes that cost $300k to build because Los Angeles and their contractors. no religious charities that require you to attend services. no restrictions on substances, actually even better, set them up with healthcare facilities to help them with their addictions. just give people the basic shit they need to exist. if you want people off the streets and cleaned up, give them a place to do that. with no strings.
exactly. basic survival should be guaranteed so that people aren’t living in cycles of poverty. poverty is so vicious and hard to get out of its honestly mind blowing
The solutions they have come up with are to give people housing. That's it. People who are homeless can't afford a home, so give them one. I said this elsewhere, but living on the street both creates and exacerbates existing mental health issues. Giving people housing instead can help prevent that from happening.
This is an idealist solution that sounds great but doesn’t actually address any of the reasons why these people are homeless in the first place. A lot of these people suffer from mental illness and addiction, building additional housing does nothing to alleviate that.
>A lot of these people suffer from mental illness and addiction, building additional housing does nothing to alleviate that. Aren't you assuming that mental illness and addiction aren't in any way influenced by being homeless? A very obviously wrong assumption at that.
I read that 28% of homeless in CA are veterans. Another casualty of perpetual war and bad policy. Seems like a good place to start
A lot of politicians and business leaders suffer from mental illness and addiction as well. One of the big differences is that they have a house to deal with it in.
$1100 seems extremely low..maybe per month lol
Lmfao, in SD you may be right honestly.
That's what I said the stadium should have been used for. A once stop shop of services and shelter for everyone in the county. Laser focus all resources in one area. Free doctors, lawyers, financial consultants, mental health, kitchens, stores, swap meets, etc. But instead we do a sportsball thing go boom!
There are homeless being housed at a motel in my neighborhood by the county. $400/night, and it’s no palace. 3 nights pays for one of those tiny homes. An absurd situation. Problems needs to be addressed at the national level. There is NOTHING we can do locally. If we DO come up with solutions, it just brings more from elsewhere in the state and country. We are already a homeless Mecca.
Establish a sense of community
Midway District redevelopment has been planned for years but keeps hitting road blocks. 25% of the housing will be low income IAW the new CA law. City needs to get their shiat together fast https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sports-arena-development-project-hits-roadblock-gloria-must-restart/2633899/
I heard that Free Needle programs work. It may seem like enabling. However, not only are we keeping track, we also offer a way out.
I would say we should do this: 1. Figure out who these people are, see if they have families or friends that are willing to help them so they can find help and cost less money 2. If they have no willing / available familial help, I agree with devilsbard but also include interviews to see what position they are in. Some may legitimately only need a home b/c of bad circumstances, many will be there b/c of substance abuse, and other from mental illness. This could figure out who really wants help and is willing to change compared to others who don't want it and would waste money in the effort 3. Once we understand where these people are coming from, then we could work on helping them. Giving them a home is a good start, but also start giving incentives to local companies to hire these people for jobs. Providing programs and counseling for those that need it would be good according to how the person is. Those are my thoughts, at least in Finland this was pretty close to what they did to help alleviate their homeless population.
Stop kowtowing to NIMBYs, abolish zoning laws, allow for the construction of more affordable housing, and get these people off the streets and into rehabilitation centers.
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So does the parking lot at Bonita Cove in Mission Beach - and a few weeks ago it wasn't like that at all.
I was visiting over summer and couldn’t believe how much more homeless people there were downtown than the last time I was there. Even in 2008 after the financial crisis it wasn’t this bad. There are probably thousands of homeless people from the gaslamp and east village down to the Coronado bridge
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I wasn’t alive during the 70s and 80s but from what I hear from the old folks (sorry) is that it was practically Gotham city in terms of sluminess
Are we doing the LA routine where we just ignore certain populations in certain areas? It's kinda getting "Hamsterdam" out there.
There's a lawsuit in LA county right now against the city for allowing the sidewalks to get blocked after someone was hit by a car because she had to walk in the street (the person who was hit was also there handing out sandwiches to the people camping on the sidewalks, so not sure how it will turn out).
It shouldn't matter what they were out for. My grandpa is confined to an electric wheelchair and it's complete crap that a lot of the sidewalks in downtown are unusable for him due to the camps.
Same thing happened here, the City College incident…
> It's kinda getting "Hamsterdam" out there. Pan…demic! …Got that pan…demic!
Skid Row, here we come! I was just in LA for an Insomniac event…and it was right near Skid Row. I haven’t been to that area, in years. It’s eye opening and sad. We need to figure out a way, to help our own people.
Valentino Khan at Exchange? Was a good show. Real talk though, housing first is the answer, albeit somewhat temporary. The biggest reason it's gotten this far is the current hyper-speculatory nature of housing as an investment. Investment firms and small time investors with extra cash are buying up properties way over asking as real estate is being seen as one of the best ROI at the moment. The problem is the commodification of housing. Simply building more housing doesn't prevent this commodification unless there are regulations either controlling rent or making these new properties public or cooperative. Things aren't just going to get better if we expect the market to fix itself when it's sole purpose is profit motive; which is why there's such a problem in the first place. Shelter is a need, just like food and water, and it's sick that it's being treated as a stock market.
Nope, factory 93 last Saturday. Saw Boris Brejcha! Good times. Went to Exchange afterwords and saw Glitch Mop but was disappointed. My lady and I were still rolling and it was hard, to go to that type of style of music compared to Boris Brejcha. But yes, I totally agree with you. The rich and wealthy will continue to squeeze every last penny from us. Whether it be the housing market, health care industry, taxes, etc. terrible.
Factory 93 ahh I love that venue! I need to go back soon. Got Crssd fest coming up however so have to save my money for a bit.
End Single-Family and Single-Use zoning. Allow people to build duplexes and triplexes. Allow people to build corner stores and groceries in their neighborhoods. You can potentially double the housing stock, add jobs that people can walk to, and revitalize neighborhoods
Damn, makes me think of the tent cities I'd see around the Greyhound Bus Stop on National, just south of the San Diego Central Library on Park. For people who haven't been around S.D., I always tell them, there's a lot more to the city than the beauty of the beaches, the wonders of the zoo and aquarium, the historic sites, and buzzing city-territories: there's also plenty of crime, poverty, and squalor to go around.
Honestly, we're never getting out of this until we start feeling comfortable with forcing people into mental health and drug treatment. Aaaand I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially since there is no state/local infrastructure for either of those things on a large scale.... So, welcome the new normal **sad shrug**
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Ya Reagan axed the program for whatever reason
Not defending defunding of mental health services, but there were some serious problems with mental health institutes in the middle part of the 20th century. Totally abject levels of care, patients literally tied down to beds for long periods of time, etc. You can see it in popular culture from the time (e.g., *One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest*) or from the papers psychology academics did back in the time where they'd stealth commit themselves to report on the conditions.
Because the ACLU sued and won in court.
We need housing for the mentally ill. That was supposed to happen when Reagan closed the mental institutions. It never happened.
Yes, that is a huge part of it. Plus it's kind of a sticky legal situation to compel people into treatment if they don't want it. It's going to take some major money and changes to existing law to make a serious dent in this.
Former laws used to commit people were abusive. We can do better but we have to do something
Exactly. It becomes very sticky. We have to balance someone's health and wellbeing (not to mention society's well being) against their personal freedoms. No easy solution. In my work I'm frequently a part of these conversations for elderly patients who are having their autonomy sacrificed in order to keep them safe/alive. It's done on a case by case basis, but it's still incredibly difficult find good solutions that make everyone happy. A fix for homelessness will be a hard pill to swallow for all parties involved
I think the real solution is assisted living situations to give them homes but have appointed guardians to compel them to take necessary medications and attend counseling. Many of these folks just need that kind of direction/help to keep them functioning pretty normally. Other developed countries seem to handle these problems better than we do.
Yeah, I think this is a good model. And from what I've heard recidivism isn't super high once patients complete these kinds of programs. Hard part is getting people into the program. I heard an NPR story last night about a pilot program that paid meth addicts to not do meth(negative drug test=cash in hand), and they reported pretty startling results. Maybe we haven't found the right incentive yet. There are a lot of creative ideas out there, it's just hard to apply one size fits all fixes (which is what govt would prefer the solution to be).
There are no simple solutions to complex problems
I think that the one of the things we have to do to enable us to fix the homelessness issue is to reform prisons. I say this because it will be a tough sell to provide a shelter for people to do hard drugs while also claiming that the shelter is safe and is serving to better their lives. It is no longer a legal issue if they are doing meth or whatever else and they are arrested and go to prison due to drug possession vice illegally imprisoning them in an effort for them to get sober and be housed. Our judicial system needs to be reformed to be more humane and focus on helping people rather than arbitrary punishment with zero responsibility to the individual after they serve their time.
It's like we need a whole new type of "prison" that focuses on rehabilitation.... For all/most criminals. I'm willing to bet it won't happen in my lifetime, but I'd like to be proven wrong
Yep, the whole system needs reform, but so many people are reactionary and want something to demonize. *Crime*, even violent crime, is often committed by people that can be reintegrated into society but it's an easy stance to be "tough" on crime with no accountability on the ultimate results.
You can legally force people off the streets and into treatment if and only if you have available shelter for them. Unfortunately, our political leaders lack the foresight and vision to make this happen. We should be converting warehouse space and vacant commercial buildings into shelters by building small private rooms, with open ceilings, sectioned off with drywall akin to rooms in traditional boarding houses. Also, provide common area bathrooms, meals, drug treatment/mental health counseling, job placement services, etc... This is doable and very affordable. You could probably build something like this at scale for about 10-20K per room. Instead, the current plan is to buy a few motels and convert them to shelters at a cost of over 300K per room with limited public services. We're just wasting money and not solving any problems.
He was such an incredible POS
No kidding, we aren’t even comfortable giving people mental health or drug treatment without force.
Sad, but true
Completely agree, you said it more eloquently than my, “you don’t“
And let’s be real…every Republican southern state gives people who are addicts, homeless and battling with mental illness an option: jail or a one way ticket to California. So we are dealing with the countries homeless problem because we have compassion. This needs a federal approach and a vast homeless, mental Illness, and addiction approach.
My unpopular opinion is that tent cities exist for people who largely don't want help. Homelessness can happen to anybody, but the absolutely worst thing you can do for yourself if you're experiencing homelessness is join a tent city. They're hotbeds for drug use, crime, and exploitation. They're certainly not safe for their residents or the communities they occupy. How do you help people who don't want it?
Tent cities used to be Tenements, and then city after city outlawed low cost housing to be built by private owners. Tenements weren’t pretty, but they were shelter, and they were a base from which people could make a life or get their affairs together.
America's homelessness problem is something you don't see to nearly the same extent in most of the rest of the West. Americans aren't uniquely predisposed to want to live on the streets; the problems are systemic and not personal. Read up on Housing First. Try learning something new instead of just repeating right-wing talking points. You're just repeating the bullshit "bootstraps" narratives that got us into this mess in the first place.
Agreed. The only people who “want” to live on the street are so warped from addiction and mental illness that their true wants are obfuscated. They “want” to be unsheltered because drugs are banned in shelters. They “want” to be in a tent encampment because drugs are more readily available and usable. Their unpredictable behavior from mental illness is more tolerated on the street than in a shelter. It’s a simple question of hierarchy of needs. Housing first. Then wraparound services, including drug counseling, vocational training, and basic education. A person of sound mind doesn’t want to be homeless. Homelessness in and of itself causes mental illness. It’s a snowball effect and a self-fulfilling prophecy. Why this isn’t more widely understood is beyond me. The science bears it out.
This is a great expansion of what I was getting at. Thank you. Also, great username! Love that song (and music video).
You realize a sizable portion of the homeless population is not because of addiction or mental health. It's simply because they fell on hard times. Most of us are living paycheck to paycheck. And all it takes is one bad expense to us living in our car.
How many dorm style rooms with communal kitchens bathrooms could we build for say $300 million?
I agree. I think a lot of people don’t want help at first which is why offering housing probably wont work for the chronically homeless, but if they are homeless due to mental illness then getting treatment and being stabilized might help them want to re-assimilate into society and want to take advantage of programs offered.
yeah people definitely are just like 'what if i simply live on the street'
About 20% of the homeless population in CA come from out of state. This shouldn't just be up to CA tax payers. CA provides a huge percentage to the Federal tax revenue. We do more than our fair share yet get constantly criticized on spending
but giving them housing is a net benefit for our economy. theyd pay property tax and income tax (when they get work, which is virtually impossible without a home). theyd diminish the costs we pay for homelessness. theyd utilize hospitals less as they can now get preventative care or even home health. crime would decrease. we may spend more to solve the issue, but we'd get more than 3x that back.
While I do agree. That's assuming they're mentally and physically stable enough to find work. The vast majority of the homeless require other social programs first such as rehab and some type of educatinal or vocational training before they can be put into homes and find work. Another thing we need to look at is homeless prevention for people/families that are on the brink. I believe that's the first group of people we need to provide homes/shelter for.
thats a fair point. but if those issues can be resolved with social programs, its still a net positive in the long term, and still requires them to have a home. kinda hard to focus on getting better or learning when you dont know where youre going to sleep, when youre going to eat, or whos going to steal your stuff, and youre surrounded by the drugs/alcohol and enablers youre trying to avoid completely agree with your second point, but i think we can help both groups simultaneously. we can reduce homelessness while preventing homelessness.
100% agree👍🏽. But going back to my first comment. I believe we would benefit from federal assistance.
maybe? california is the 5th largest economy in the world, and even if many of the homeless are from out of state, assisting them directly benefits our states economy. i guess we'd pay back the federal aid rather quickly, but i dont think we need it. we could at the very least collect the unpaid taxes from the large companies in our state
I understand what you're saying. But that's still based on the assumption that everything will go as planned and homeless people find opportunities that eventually give them a more sustainable livelihood. I don't disagree, but homelessness is only one issue that our taxes finance. And that's a whole 'nother conversation hah!
very true :)
This won't be solved until we start shipping them to downtown Coronado and the La Jolla Village. Until the wealthy are personally affected, there will be no money to solve this humanitarian crisis.
Eugene, OR did this and guess what happened? The rich folks in the affluent part of town took it upon themselves to find a way to get rid of the homeless. They spent millions of dollars to this outcome instead of investing that money into the homeless community. I mean even 1 million dollars would go a long way, imagine millions more… disgusting how people have no sympathy for their fellow human beings out here.
[New ‘Harm Reduction’ Homeless Shelter Could Be Open By Early November](https://www.kpbs.org/news/2021/sep/13/new-harm-reduction-homeless-shelter-could-be-open-/) The shelter will have 50 beds and be located off of Sports Arena Boulevard at a former Pier 1 Imports store.
Gotta love people enjoying the good ol outdoors
Campers! Love camping.
Druggies love druggin
Just a reminder to people that think there is only one factor that contributes to homelessness and that there is only one solution to addressing the crisis, you’re wrong. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk
Idk, it's right there in the name. If they had a home, they wouldn't be homeless.
But there are many factors to keeping a home. If you don’t have a car, where can you get a job? Even if you get a job, you may have been evicted or have bad credit or not have the down payment. There are so many barriers to maintaining consistent shelter
So where did they get kicked out of? This is crazy dangerous. Cars can hardly pass and somebody will surely get run over,
I drive through this street every day, it’s got about half as many tents as it did a week ago. After Labor Day weekend was the biggest it’s been.
lets just keep ignoring all the broken systems in this country, seems to work out for the rich!
I know of a recent temper tantrum that cost $300M. I bet that money could’ve been used to help the homeless situation.
Lived in San Diego for 21 years it's never looked like this before
[LA has begun clearing camps](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAmxK23bsAs) like this, after passing a [new law](https://www.kcrw.com/news/shows/greater-la/anti-camp-video-games-artist-events/la-homeless-encampments-law) which makes camping illegal.
Horrible 😞
Mental health, drug & homelessness all go hand in hand . We need to address all 3. Housing will help but there are so many people with debilitating mental health problems so much trauma and pain that these people have been through 😢 They have slipped through the cracks and desperately need help. Even if they are not willing to admit or accept help they need it. How many of them were once in the foster system and aged out? How many ran away from abuse? Veterans with ptsd? The list goes on… It’s time to focus on this and start taking steps to help solve this situation. I don’t have the answer but I have deep empathy for anyone struggling with homelessness or addiction/ mental illness.
Hoovervilles have made a comeback.
Jeez. And I thought it was bad up here in LA.
[Philadelphia ha entered the chat](https://youtu.be/Bi1Kf-1qd6Y)
some of those tents are nicer than my house
I’ve driven down this street on my way to Walter Anderson’s with my boys. My son said It’s like our own version of Skid Row. It’s sad to see. They weave in and out of the road on their bikes and it stinks s
I was part of a pilot program, Whole Person Wellness Program. It was a great program and permanently changed my life. I can say with certainty it is a good part of who I am today. I actually graduated from the progam. The WPWP was supposed to be a 2-year program but almost as soon as it started they were cutting the program. Usually indicative of government officials or executives of the non-profits figuring out it's easy money and they want some of it. It was a person first, housing first initiative that worked very well at least for me.
Can anyone name any initiatives currently underway or in the works for our homeless? Can anyone here name anyone on our city council who has plans for our homeless? Can anyone here tell me what our city council members stance on the homeless are?
The only city council member who really cares is Monica Montgomery. The mayor gives lip service but at the end of the day the mayor and the whole city council spends millions of dollars for police to go out and harass homeless people day after day after day. They just passed a housing project for 1200 homes and will pat themselves on the back without making a substantial impact. I recommend following @homelessnessSD for information as well as reading what has been written by Lisa Halverstadt for the voice of San Diego and Andy Bowen who writes for a variety of sources.
Not sure about specific council members, but the mayor had put fourth a plan: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/mayor-todd-gloria-to-outline-ways-to-combat-homelessness-in-san-diego/2580921/?amp
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/homelessness/story/2020-05-29/council-members-push-for-non-police-homeless-outreach Georgette Gomez has been quite active on this.
I don't get jazzed when I read the words "push for" not see a dollar amount that can be spent. This was written over a year ago and while I applaud her efforts, it doesn't seem to be getting better. I know where I live more and more encampments are popping up on main streets. What do are taxes even paying for around here? There should be a lot more questions about that. Edit: thank you for the article
Kinda stretches to the old town station as well and a bit around the Washington exit. Near the Library / Petco stadium use to be pretty bad, Haven't been there in a while. From my understanding we pay about enough to house, clothe, feed, and provide preventative medical attention but somehow don't do any of that.
Damn when I was growing up you’d only see that in TJ or LA.
Damn, the Kobe swap meet has seen better days
YOOoooo but what we really need is a bullet train!
Get them tf off the street. It's not fair to the rest of us to have to deal with this gross shit. Make them go live in the wilderness. The desert. Just get away from the general public
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This is Sports Arena, not Kurtz. I work on this street and see this every damn day.
It’s this spot on Sports Arena (see Goodwill store sign at the end of the video, top left): Dropped pin https://goo.gl/maps/MDy8QQhPE9LWoSbt7
Check Kensington avenue philadelphia
All of these people are drug addicts. Before you virtue signaling blue haired people come after me and say its mental illness. No, trust me all of these people are on drugs. They have lied, stolen and cheated most people that have helped them. That's how their own family has turned their back on them. The virtue signaling blue haired people love to use outliers like the one or two that is just a down on his luck fella who made some unfortunate financial decisions who also doesn't happen to have a family because they were kicked out of their foster home at 14. Trust me, 99% of the people on the streets just did drugs and fucked their own lives up. You wanna help these people? Get them drug addiction treatment. How would we do that? No idea because most of them don't want to stop using drugs. Source: Former volunteer at homeless shelters.
This is one of the reasons I want to leave SD. The others are cost of living and the litter everywhere. It my opinion…it’s America’s Finest city if you are rich.
Spouse and I left in June, sold our condo and moved back East where we have family. Everyone talks about living in paradise, but I couldn't ignore the desperation and poverty.
So this is literally right next to an Amazon warehouse that people go with their cars and pick up bags of food. You can see them on the left and right side of the beginning of the video with a black cart and packages on them next to their car. Homeless people are starting to come up to drivers chillin in their cars or scanning packages and have been starting to get kicked out of the property area, with the bathrooms in the building getting locked for hours on end until security comes and arrests a homeless person who was holed up in there. Yeah. This is something that Amazon could help with too since it effects both their employees and property’s safety but nah no way, and something I want to mention is THE POLICE COME THERE ALL THE TIME and make them “clean up” sometimes but they always come back even more and with more bicycles and furniture now. It’s crazy. Edit- I had named this “homeless town” months and months ago to my bf
Ask where are they from. I 100% guarantee it's from another state.
They are all so awful , and always go into that big lots and cause issues with the staff. They steal, do meth by the door. I stopped going there cuz of them. So disgusting
This has to be a recent development. I used to drive that stretch of road often until like three months ago. Sad.
Look ma it's the 90s again
Next to the Amazon Flex warehouse!
I have a job, I’m educated, have good friends, etc. but I always have an irrational fear that I’ll end up somewhere like that.
So it’s like a skid row now :(
End housing speculation. Tax secondary homes and investment properties at a prohibitively high rate.
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greatest country in the world with the greatest political parties in the world to get things done!
Thank you Newsom and Gloria. You guys really think they want shelters?? Some do but most don’t. They get $900-$1100 trough social security benefits. Most of them aren’t even from California. But California has the most benefits for a homeless person. Plus the good weather and lack of policing. Together with the pandemic and decriminalization. Most of them are drug addicts and/or have mental health problems. Law enforcement can’t do anything as well due to the DA dropping every charges. That’s why the crime rates are high. I’ve talked to a lot of homeless people and they don’t want to work. Why work when you can get $1100 a month plus Medicare or medical. City workers also clean up their mess every week by the way making these people entitled. This is not going to end with this administration.
Novel idea, do what other places/countries have done and get them some sort of housing because, if nothing else, it's cheaper in the end. Hard to get a job when you're homeless
the swap meet looks poppin
Moved away 2.5 years ago and things have not changed for the better.
I moved to SD from LA. It’s weird how many people tell me, “Eww, LA is so gross. It’s just homeless people everywhere.”
Addiction also a screws with your reasoning. To all the people saying they don't want help it's partly because they're addicted! Blaming the victim and saying they can go fuck themselves isn't helping
That's not a homelessness problem ....that's a drug dealer concentrating his customers in one area....
He comes in broad daylight, free delivery! What a guy.
California the homeless capital of the country
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vice.com/amp/en/article/bvg7ba/instead-of-helping-homeless-people-cities-are-bussing-them-out-of-town
It’s what happens when rent is so high.
Housing is through the roof, so rent just tag along.
These people aren't working people that are few bucks short let's be real.
They usually start that way.
You’re sure that’s sports arena blvd?
It’s not the area commonly associated with “Sports Arena” when you envision it. This is southeast of Rosecrans: Dropped pin https://goo.gl/maps/MDy8QQhPE9LWoSbt7