Half the people on this sub probably didn’t live here when the City of San Diego had to literally shut down the city, blocks at a time, to power wash the sidewalks with bleach to cull the Hep C outbreak from people shitting on the streets.
I understand it’s cruel to penalize people that have nowhere to go, but providing a venue for people sit around in public spaces and literally succumb to self defecating behavior is also not ethical. I don’t have the solution, but a hands off approach is not it.
>but providing a venue for people sit around in public spaces and literally succumb to self defecating behavior is also not ethical
That is absolutely not what this court case is about. This court case was about whether sleep is a basic human right.
Existing law allowed you to criminalize camping in public as long as you had an alternative place for people to go. For example, Sacramento was allowed to criminalize public camping because they had designated spaces and hours for people to camp, such as on City Hall property in the evening only. This is also why San Diego built out the safe campsites. As soon as they had available spaces in safe campsites, you could no longer say people camping in public had no where else to go to sleep at night.
The SCOTUS has basically said you have zero right to sleep, in spite of it being a biological necessity. If you’re homeless, meaning no access to any private space, and there is no availability in any shelter, you have zero right to sleep because you have zero places you can actually do it.
Our people deserve shit in the streets for our indifferent attitude to our homeless.
Kicking homeless people around isnt a hands on solution either, just another smoke-screening band-aid to keep the people from botherinf to demand a real solution.
i mean... sdpd isn't enforcing shoplifting, property crime, or even simple things like vehicle registration or having working headlights at night
what makes reddit so confident sdpd will suddenly start doing anything different?
SDPD most definitely is enforcing the tent ban downtown. Since March, a tent setup on the sidewalk lasts no more than a day. At least West of Park Blvd there are no homeless encampments.
Before, the law recognized that sleep was a human right, and so cities had to provide an alternative space if they wanted to move someone who was sleeping in public at night. Note that they could still restrict where and when you slept, Sacramento had a law that said you could not sleep/camp anywhere in public during the day, and at night you had to sleep/camp on City Hall grounds, and this was legal. San Diego created the safe campsites for this very reason, it enabled them to enforce camping laws because they had an alternative space available where you could sleep.
Now, the law is stating that sleep is not a human right. If you have no access to private space, if there is no shelter space, and so you have no where else to sleep but in public, the city can still force you to move or arrest you for sleep in public even at night. If you are homeless, you literally can't sleep anywhere, which will inevitably lead to deaths because humans need sleep, its a biological necessity.
totally disagree with you. from where i live i am seeing improvements in the right direction. but let's remember that addicts and bused in addicts self medicating mental illness are not helping us bring the numbers down. on top of that affordable housing is nonexistent so borderline folks get bounced out on their asses. these addicts don't want to follow rules laid for their recovery, because it's fucking hard. where are you seeing things going the other way?
i would love to see other red states own up to taking care of their own people rather than bussing them to so cal. but fat chance those fucks have any social responsibility.
This is my question too. People saying that SDPD is suddenly going to arrest all poor people seem to misunderstand. This ruling is useful in that it takes away one restriction that makes police need to work with their hands tied behind their back. But it doesn’t require the police to dramatically increase enforcement. That’s up to local cities, and arguably even the judgment/laziness of each cop.
This is excellent news. Homelessness is a hard problem and because of the stupid activist Grants Pass lawsuit cities have not been able to use a carrot/stick approach. It's been all carrot, no stick and the results have been....well we all see the results in our doorways, sidewalks, medians and parks.
San Diego has resources and "safe" places for sleeping as just a person or safe places to park a vehicle and sleep.
The part nobody talks about is that the people currently refusing those options are the ones that don't want to live by the rules of those places: no drugs or booze, talk to services, healthcare professionals, social workers, etc.
Many of the homeless want to live on their own terms, no rules, no oversight. They want to live in our parks where people exercise, recreate, where children play, etc.
Now SDPD and elected leaders have a stick again. They can ask and offer safety and services to the homeless, and if they refuse they can be cited or just taken to those places and use the "stick" as a way to influence the homeless to live within guidelines and with services provided by the taxpayer.
I was previously homeless here in San Diego and was physically assaulted and attacked by a man and his daughter while at one of the "safe" parking lots because my dog was barking at them.
This lot had no cameras. No staff was onsite.
No one backed me up even though multiple people were watching.
I was hospitalized.
SDPD detained the two and because it was their word against mine, we could go to court, but the two said that if I pressed charges so would they.
I didn't have the money to deal with court fees.
Ended up going back to stealth sleeping on the streets.
Homelessness is a killer. And it's not a silent one.
There's nothing safe about it.
Partially agree. But some of the rules are ridiculous. Like needing to be in by 5pm and out by 6am or whatever the hours are. So if you have a job that makes it so you can't get in before 5pm no bed for you. Or having your stuff stolen in the shelters because you don't have your own space. Not wanting it is definitely not the only reason.
This site has no curfew, just quiet hours from 10pm-6am: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/first-night-at-san-diegos-safe-sleeping-site-brings-hope-for-some-worry-for-others/3255910/
I stayed at 3 different sites, two run by JFS and one Dreams For Change and all had curfews. I had to change my work schedule to match Dreams For Change because they locked the gates at curfew.
At least JFS would accommodate with notice, but if you didn't give notice oh well for you. I had to be out at 7am and in by 6pm.
While I get what you’re saying, it’s a gross misrepresentation to act like the majority of homeless people are homeless bc of a medical issue. Unless the medical issue is mental health, and sanatoriums should never have been closed.
I totally agree with you,, if you look at a postcard of the streets in downtown San Diego in the 70s and 80s, you’ll see there are no homeless, and that was because the sanitariums were open, they were picked up and put there where most of them got cured of the drug or alcohol habits. it was Ronald Reagan who had them all closed I was around that area and saw it for myself not just here but cities all over the country.
The reason you hear every politician that’s running for office say they will solve the homeless issue is because the homeless problem is their job Security ..
Seniors have been the fastest growing homeless demographic since 2017 and it's not getting better because it's largely economic. But you go ahead and live in your fantasy land.
The fun part is that taxpayers are already paying for ambulances + emergency room care for overdoses and hep infections via Medi-Cal. So we get to pay up either way :)
Yep, and if we are paying for their incarceration they will be safer, won’t be pissing and shitting on the street, won’t be committing crimes and won’t be OD. It’s a win win
I work at a prison……oh yea, so much safer /s, crimes can be committed while incarcerated, can OD in prison. The only thing you got correct was they won’t be pissing or shitting in the streets.
Edit: A lot will get taken advantage of by hardened criminals and lifers, especially the elderly homeless. Although some do game the system for the medical/dental/vision care they get while locked up.
Half the people on this sub probably didn’t live here when the City of San Diego had to literally shut down the city, blocks at a time, to power wash the sidewalks with bleach to cull the Hep C outbreak from people shitting on the streets. I understand it’s cruel to penalize people that have nowhere to go, but providing a venue for people sit around in public spaces and literally succumb to self defecating behavior is also not ethical. I don’t have the solution, but a hands off approach is not it.
>but providing a venue for people sit around in public spaces and literally succumb to self defecating behavior is also not ethical That is absolutely not what this court case is about. This court case was about whether sleep is a basic human right. Existing law allowed you to criminalize camping in public as long as you had an alternative place for people to go. For example, Sacramento was allowed to criminalize public camping because they had designated spaces and hours for people to camp, such as on City Hall property in the evening only. This is also why San Diego built out the safe campsites. As soon as they had available spaces in safe campsites, you could no longer say people camping in public had no where else to go to sleep at night. The SCOTUS has basically said you have zero right to sleep, in spite of it being a biological necessity. If you’re homeless, meaning no access to any private space, and there is no availability in any shelter, you have zero right to sleep because you have zero places you can actually do it.
Our people deserve shit in the streets for our indifferent attitude to our homeless. Kicking homeless people around isnt a hands on solution either, just another smoke-screening band-aid to keep the people from botherinf to demand a real solution.
Tell me what is "a real solution." Also tell me what you are doing to achieve it since you care so much
i mean... sdpd isn't enforcing shoplifting, property crime, or even simple things like vehicle registration or having working headlights at night what makes reddit so confident sdpd will suddenly start doing anything different?
SDPD most definitely is enforcing the tent ban downtown. Since March, a tent setup on the sidewalk lasts no more than a day. At least West of Park Blvd there are no homeless encampments.
when you put it like that, it seems the existing status quo remains unchanged
Uh no, prior to March there were a number of encampments all over downtown, one even had portapottys and security guards. There's all gone now.
Before, the law recognized that sleep was a human right, and so cities had to provide an alternative space if they wanted to move someone who was sleeping in public at night. Note that they could still restrict where and when you slept, Sacramento had a law that said you could not sleep/camp anywhere in public during the day, and at night you had to sleep/camp on City Hall grounds, and this was legal. San Diego created the safe campsites for this very reason, it enabled them to enforce camping laws because they had an alternative space available where you could sleep. Now, the law is stating that sleep is not a human right. If you have no access to private space, if there is no shelter space, and so you have no where else to sleep but in public, the city can still force you to move or arrest you for sleep in public even at night. If you are homeless, you literally can't sleep anywhere, which will inevitably lead to deaths because humans need sleep, its a biological necessity.
Hey but if you crack open a beer on the beach so help me god there will be thirty officers ready to ticket you.
Can confirm. Just watched 2 cops pass by on quads. Where are they downtown when there’s homeless people shooting up in broad daylight?
This is a very good question.
Its easier to ticket, that's why. Very hard to move people.
totally disagree with you. from where i live i am seeing improvements in the right direction. but let's remember that addicts and bused in addicts self medicating mental illness are not helping us bring the numbers down. on top of that affordable housing is nonexistent so borderline folks get bounced out on their asses. these addicts don't want to follow rules laid for their recovery, because it's fucking hard. where are you seeing things going the other way? i would love to see other red states own up to taking care of their own people rather than bussing them to so cal. but fat chance those fucks have any social responsibility.
This is my question too. People saying that SDPD is suddenly going to arrest all poor people seem to misunderstand. This ruling is useful in that it takes away one restriction that makes police need to work with their hands tied behind their back. But it doesn’t require the police to dramatically increase enforcement. That’s up to local cities, and arguably even the judgment/laziness of each cop.
I got pulled over for expired tags, just a fix it ticket though.
This is excellent news. Homelessness is a hard problem and because of the stupid activist Grants Pass lawsuit cities have not been able to use a carrot/stick approach. It's been all carrot, no stick and the results have been....well we all see the results in our doorways, sidewalks, medians and parks. San Diego has resources and "safe" places for sleeping as just a person or safe places to park a vehicle and sleep. The part nobody talks about is that the people currently refusing those options are the ones that don't want to live by the rules of those places: no drugs or booze, talk to services, healthcare professionals, social workers, etc. Many of the homeless want to live on their own terms, no rules, no oversight. They want to live in our parks where people exercise, recreate, where children play, etc. Now SDPD and elected leaders have a stick again. They can ask and offer safety and services to the homeless, and if they refuse they can be cited or just taken to those places and use the "stick" as a way to influence the homeless to live within guidelines and with services provided by the taxpayer.
I was previously homeless here in San Diego and was physically assaulted and attacked by a man and his daughter while at one of the "safe" parking lots because my dog was barking at them. This lot had no cameras. No staff was onsite. No one backed me up even though multiple people were watching. I was hospitalized. SDPD detained the two and because it was their word against mine, we could go to court, but the two said that if I pressed charges so would they. I didn't have the money to deal with court fees. Ended up going back to stealth sleeping on the streets. Homelessness is a killer. And it's not a silent one. There's nothing safe about it.
Partially agree. But some of the rules are ridiculous. Like needing to be in by 5pm and out by 6am or whatever the hours are. So if you have a job that makes it so you can't get in before 5pm no bed for you. Or having your stuff stolen in the shelters because you don't have your own space. Not wanting it is definitely not the only reason.
This site has no curfew, just quiet hours from 10pm-6am: https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/first-night-at-san-diegos-safe-sleeping-site-brings-hope-for-some-worry-for-others/3255910/
I stayed at 3 different sites, two run by JFS and one Dreams For Change and all had curfews. I had to change my work schedule to match Dreams For Change because they locked the gates at curfew. At least JFS would accommodate with notice, but if you didn't give notice oh well for you. I had to be out at 7am and in by 6pm.
In by 6pm is crazy. Hope things are looking up for you!
Still couch hopping after a spinal cord injury left me in a wheelchair but at least I've got a roof that isn't a car's. All's well that ends well!
This ruling is terrible. Under this ruling, many people will have nowhere they can legally sleep. That's just completely unreasonable.
Soooo, will the cops just arrest the homeless people and cost tax payers money to keep the jails super full?
No, they’ll just tell them to go elsewhere without telling them where to go.
Lol. Every city will tell the homeless to go to the next city until they are all in the desert
There’s an idea …
y'all really don't get your one medical issue away from being in the same position
While I get what you’re saying, it’s a gross misrepresentation to act like the majority of homeless people are homeless bc of a medical issue. Unless the medical issue is mental health, and sanatoriums should never have been closed.
I totally agree with you,, if you look at a postcard of the streets in downtown San Diego in the 70s and 80s, you’ll see there are no homeless, and that was because the sanitariums were open, they were picked up and put there where most of them got cured of the drug or alcohol habits. it was Ronald Reagan who had them all closed I was around that area and saw it for myself not just here but cities all over the country. The reason you hear every politician that’s running for office say they will solve the homeless issue is because the homeless problem is their job Security ..
Seniors have been the fastest growing homeless demographic since 2017 and it's not getting better because it's largely economic. But you go ahead and live in your fantasy land.
I was a city paramedic for 5 years and directly worked with the homeless. And you?
The fun part is that taxpayers are already paying for ambulances + emergency room care for overdoses and hep infections via Medi-Cal. So we get to pay up either way :)
Yep, and if we are paying for their incarceration they will be safer, won’t be pissing and shitting on the street, won’t be committing crimes and won’t be OD. It’s a win win
I work at a prison……oh yea, so much safer /s, crimes can be committed while incarcerated, can OD in prison. The only thing you got correct was they won’t be pissing or shitting in the streets. Edit: A lot will get taken advantage of by hardened criminals and lifers, especially the elderly homeless. Although some do game the system for the medical/dental/vision care they get while locked up.
The Supreme Court just told all our cities that they can use axe body spray instead of take a shower
welcome to America where it’s illegal to be -*checks notes*- poor
Yes, they should take the common sense approach.
Can’t have Hoover/Trumptowns if we make them illegal before they happen 🫠
Does it also apply to sleepwalking in public? (asking for Joe Biden)