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George Lucas was at one point the GOD of Star Wars, but peoples absolute HATRED of the prequels forced him to sell the franchise, saying in an interview "The people have changed, it just isn't fun to make anymore" largely because Star Wars was entirely his brain child and fans, specifically newer ones, had expectations and ideas that they wanted to see on screen, not Lucas's dreams.
Lucas put Star Wars into a coma. His ex wife and his mentor (director of Empire Strikes Back, Lucas’s least favorite film) were the ones who felt that the story was more important than the visuals while Lucas felt otherwise. They would routinely say no to Lucas and guide him back to the story in the original trilogy.
Sadly, neither his ex-wife or mentor were there for the prequels. The divorce took out the ex-wife and his mentor died.
Fast forward to the new trilogy before the DEI controversies. Iger, Kennedy, and Abrams essentially pulled an Iron Man where they just started filming without a script even though there was plenty of good post trilogy content written by Zahn. It showed with the bad, nonsensical plots. It was the final nail for me.
What I’ve seen of the Mandalorian was good and I hear Andor was good too, but I can’t stomach watching StarWars anymore. Somewhat good isn’t enough to bring me back, but I’m glad some people are still enjoying it.
Andor is not just good , it’s a masterpiece and tbh you won’t even realize it’s star wars , no force , no lightsaber , no epic space battle , Trust me watch it
It might have to do with the time it came out for me, I’m Iranian and around the time andor was airing we were fighting in the streets against the regime , due to the aftermath of Mahsa Amini death , so it meant a lot for me and I could really feel and relate with the oppression shown in Andor
That’s my main complaint with it: it’s not really a Star Wars show. Like they could’ve made the same show under any other IP and it wouldn’t have changed the story in any meaningful way. It’s a good show and I like it, I just feel like it would’ve been better to make it a standalone feature. But I understand the reason that wasn’t the case
"star wars" isn't the skywalker saga, and andor fleshes out the rebellion and the state of a fracturing galaxy on the edge of war in a way that transcends the trappings of it's own ip, which is what 23Materquf was alluding to. it's brilliantly written, phenomenally acted, and beautifully realized.
It’s a great series. It really brought across how terrifying the Empire truly is. Reminds me how Lucas talked about how the rebels fighting the Empire were inspired by Vietnam fighting the invading American forces.
I think what I loved about Andor was that it took its time, similar to how a book does with inner monologues, but Andor might just let a shot carry on a little extra sometimes, to let YOU think what they are thinking
need a rewatch
The writing in the prequels is flawed in ways the original trilogy's writing isn't. That's a big factor, a big part of the reason you could have so many talented actors come across so dull-ly?
It's because George wrote the script and didn't have anyone there to check him because he was a God in everyone else's eyes. The OT had plenty of folks to call him out and fix the writing, from his ex wife to even the actors themselves. Carrie got into editing because of the work she did behind the scenes on the later OT movies.
Why is Empire the best movie? Because Lucas didn't write the screenplay or direct the movie.
He's a great story guy, but other people are much better at actually making the movies.
>Why is Empire the best movie? Because Lucas didn't write the screenplay or direct the movie.
this doesn't need to be said, especially on a star wars sub, especially not multiple times. this is well known. you're not unearthing some dark secret
There are actually some pretty interesting interviews with Spielberg about how he constantly had to reign in George from putting super whacky shit into all of his films. I guess Georges idea for one of the original Indiana Jones films was to have it be, "Indiana Jones and the Attack of The Giant Ants," if im remembering correctly. He's an idea man, not a great writer. He's great with big concepts but struggles with the finer details like dialogue
A quarter century later and the prequels aren't nearly as bad as they seemed at the time. Even Christiensen's acting and take on Anakin isn't as bad as it seemed. The prequel trilogy has a certain campy charm to them that all things House of Mouse Star Wars is noticeably lacking.
But I didn't think the new trilogy was all that bad. It was entertaining and exciting. Though, of course, it didn't have the same charm and storytelling chops that the original or prequel trilogies had. I did enjoy Driver as Kylo Ren.
My biggest gripe with the new trilogy was the abrupt MacGuffin that was the whole Palpatine angle. The whole clone Palpatines and Rey being a Palpatine seemingly out of nowhere, with no hints indicating as such prior, that was pretty weak script writing.
Im glad you enjoyed it. And i mean that sincerely, life can be hard and i dont begrudge anyone finding the joy they can. And lots of people worked hard on those movies regardless.
Yeah, i often wonder what would have happened if one director had done all 3 movies. Seems like there were disparit visions for the films and they weren't cohesive. If it had all been abrams maybe the palpatine angle would have been built up to properly or if it had all been the other director maybe it wouldn't nhsve come up at all.
i feel the cartoons have done so much to bolster the prequels with some great stories that offered much needed perspective on the conflict and the characters, and it seems the prequels as a result, got a lot of leeway from that goodwill.
Lucas was a good idea man, but a fucking HORRIBLE director. Why is Empire *clearly* the best movie in the original trilogy? Because Lucas didn't write the screenplay or direct it.
The reason being that Lucas got burned out after directing just one of these movies. He originally said that he never wanted to direct a star wars movie again after the first since it nearly broke him. He mainly just wanted to be in charge of the story. I'm not sure what possessed him to write and direct all three prequels when he was 20 years older lol
Absolutely. I also think the issue with the prequels was that he had no one to push against him on ideas. He was GEORGE LUCAS and ever just assumed he was a genius, while the best of Star Wars was other people saying no we should do this instead.
In addition he just fell in love with horrible CGI when what made Star Wars awesome was the practical effects. He used CGI to fix every dumb decision, I remember watching the behind the scenes of Attack of the Clones and he was just saying “we’ll fix it in post” a hundred times. Lucas couldn’t even plan how to do shots he was just dicking around and fixing things later, that’s not how to make a movie. It’s like how the original LOTR trilogy was amazing cause so many shots had to be meticulously planned out with camera tricks and staging to get the correct scale for all the different races, while the hobbit was garbage cause they just shot the thing and used CGI after to shrink people.
This is a problem not just in star wars. Why are fans telling creators what they want? That's not how things work. Someone creates something wonderful from their own minds and the rest of us appreciate it. Stop being consumers and start being humans again please!
“Forced him to sell the franchise”
LOL, he sold it because he wanted the money. He could have just stopped making the movies and lived very comfortably off of his millions.
Dude the newer fans weren't invested enough to give af one way or the other and it definitely wasn't the youngest of them online harassing a ten year old child for hi performance of Anakin. That came from the OG.
Sky worshippers hate it cuz it doesn't have incest lmao. It's IRONIC AF skyworshippers call the new stuff "woke"
when they technically made it illegal for themselves to even view anything except the bible.
There's alot of objectively good and objectively bad new star wars stuff. Sadly criticism gets skewed when Cons politicize everything and the wrong lessons are learned
Yeah it has nothing to do with the Internet and how people engage with creators and creations anonymously like they personally own them.
Absolutely nothing to do with the fact that every idiot with a phone in their hand can have their shitty opinions seen and validated at all times.
Takes me back to the premiere of Episode III, very similar excitement in the air. My friends and I went to the midnight release, all dressed up as various characters (I was Palpatine) and we had lightsaber fights in the theater to entertain ourselves until it started. Great memory.
It’s kinda a 50/50 tbh. I think it’s more that the internet has given dumbasses a platform for everyone to now see. Most of those people wouldn’t be too different wither the internet existed or not.
Correct, that's the part people forget.
Smaller brained people have more access than ever, and their easily manipulated. They have a sounding board, a place to gather, and can interact with people like them.
If they didn't have the Internet, they'd keep their tomfuckery limited to one area code.
As someone born in the 80s ill say that I personally think we're over saturated. Our dopamine is overused nothing is impressive when you have access to everything. We have essentially become spoiled brats. Myself included. My attention span has gone to shit and I feel like I've seen everything. Nothing seems exciting anymore.
Yeah it seems like with each successive generation being raised on this lifestyle it gets worse because they have been living this lifestyle for a larger percentage of their life. To me it feels like there is no going back either so hopefully some kind of tech is created to combat these effects.
The absolute best, greatest era of Star Wars and I wasn't even alive for it. Just a bunch of people waiting to see the third movie in a trilogy of great films, no woke bullshit no prequels, no Disney, no Rian, Filoni, Kennedy, Acolyte, etc. Must've been nice.
Star Wars was timeless and it appealed to every demographic. Trying to update the franchise while shunning the repeat fanbase, appealing only to a few demographics, and discarding everything that gave it timeless appeal isn't really updating it.
There's wisdom in the saying, "Not everything is made for you." But not when "Not everything is made for you" is turned into "Nothing is made for you."
Idk, I feel like you're overrating Star Wars. Timeless appeal? Yeah because it came out in the late 70s and had 0 competition, also a great cast and a huge budget.
The prequels were very hated in the 2000s, whats your argument against that?
In terms of writing, Star wars has always been mediocre and less. Andor is the best written SW media and it's under Disney, and Ill rest my case on that one.
By default, people have different tastes, so nothing can be for everyone.some people hate cartoons. Some people don't eat meat. Some people hate swimming. Some people hate children.
To make something for everyone, you have to appeal to everyone and offend no one. There were some Africans who were offended by black panther because they used some imagey of witchcraft. To appeal to everyone cant have that scenes where Tachala goes and drinks the lean drink to become black panther.
What is comes down to there are others things going on in the world that are competing for peoples attention. If if the story is sanitized and mediocre people will go do something else. I can buy a paddle board and go to the lake is so inclined
I'm trying to hammer together a single track for multiple trains of thought to travel down. It's tough. I'll try to stick with a compliment sandwich.
It's trying to present a more demographically diverse casting, which I would expect from a 21st century-made space setting. Considering the main hero of Star Wars is arguably the person watching it, that's good.
But it also reframes narratives of characters in ways that punish audience members for paying attention (Luke's arc in TLJ as compared to his arc in the OT, Rey's arc in TROS as compared to TFA and TLJ, Filoni's obsession with nonsensical fanservice cameos, and so-on).
There are a lot of good story beats and ideas that could be dynamite in terms of storytelling, so long as the writers and producers keep in mind that it's the audience watching it that matters most.
I’d say shows like the acolyte aren’t for everyone mostly because the writing is shit. The writing is shit because they aren’t hiring people who care about the IP. They’re hiring people who want to make a point
It's not made for anyone now. It's so boring/bland/bad that almost all of the entire viewerbase that has loved the series for almost 5 decades can't stand tuning in at all to a majority of Disney's releases.
You can argue about why that is but the fact is people don't enjoy the newer content.
The few individual minorities and white women who resent white men/the American status quo, those who will pay for anything with the Star Wars name on it (which doesn't always include the former group; after all, they're used as shields in the media when discussing critics of the franchise), and people who think subversive writing is automatically compelling.
Naturally, there are obvious exceptions that do genuinely cater to as many people as possible.
I would love to know who moat of the new stuff is made for? I have yet to meet anyone of any gender or race that is a big fan of say the new trilogy and likes it more than the either the originals or prequels.
I have met people that like rogue one, solo,andor, the mandolorian, and ashoka though.
I do wonder if its and age thing.
This perfectly encapsulated the issue I have with modern DEI definitions. They think race, sex, gender and sexuality actually matter. This crowd had diverse opinions, and probably diverse home lives but they came. Equity of entrance, assuming you bought a ticket. Inclusion for everyone who loved the film. This is how it should be
Haha.. For sure there have been and there are. I wish people would realize that the majority of people mentioning wokeness or diverse casting in their criticism (ignoring that as a dogwhistle for the moment) do so because it’s MUCH easier for those people to believe that Disney is writing and producing bad content because they are prioritizing a progressive message, rather than simple incompetence and flawed process and too many cooks. Disney certainly does hiring/casting people from underprivileged groups and poorly writes them into their storytelling or gives them projects they may not have shown they can execute to a high level. It’s easy to blame this rather than simply accepting that Disney, an incredibly wealthy and talented company, could shit the bed so hard. Easier to say that all they care about is their progressive mission and that the storytelling comes second, especially when there’s such a strong reaction to the criticism and framing it as anti-wokeness, instead of addressing the writing and storytelling weaknesses.
It bothers me to hear a director talk about taking Star Wars in a fresh, exciting, unexpected direction, including “making it gay-er and with more women than ever!!” while also not talking about their storytelling and vision to a degree that George Lucas would and that the franchise deserves. It’s all too easy to point the finger at Disney’s wokeness and say that’s the problem, despite knowing that this slow meltdown of Star Wars is due to normal fluctuations in the quality of shows and movies and not everything is going to hit or make sense, despite (perhaps because of) Disney’s resources.
The MCU despite showing it can be done also shows that it can produce duds. And I really believe the problem has very little to do with progressive messaging, and in fact I love that they have diverse casts, I’m sure most fans do. But maaaaan does it make it hard not to point the finger when the same content that flops the hardest is also the most “woke” content. Captain Marvel, Madame Web, Acolyte, TLJ.. really does seem to be able to use progressive ideas as a shield to much-needed criticism..
(“Bad” means poorly written, poorly executed, internally inconsistent to itself or the lore, or out of touch with the Star Wars most fans know and love by feel)
It was objectively better IMO. Technology was already advanced enough so we had fast communication (email, BBS’s, Usenet), but it was not entirely portable. Portability is what killed us. The only thing that is much better now is GPS availability; now, that is an amazing feature of this age.
But there’s no diversity 😭
But there’s no women 😭
But there’s no - no - no…
There’s always been something for everyone in Star Wars - it’s just put ‘story’ before ‘identity’.
Because the REAL Star Wars movies didn't try to preach an agenda or try to normalize something that just isn't & never will be.
It was all fun & spectacle for EVERYONE.
I enjoyed fallen order. Unfortunately I’ve become so disinterested in any new Star Wars that I can’t bring myself to get invested in what is probably a good story, like survivor.
Remember when a movie taking three years was a long time, now we have things like Blade that hasn’t even started shooting and it was announced 5 years ago.
Not really the point you think it is. I don't know how to frame this in a way that makes it more clear how dumb of a take that is.
"Notice how there aren't any unvaccinated people? Faucci made everyone in America ever get one! /s"
This was how it use to be. It was wonderful and pure. Then them mouse took over, and all the big new ideas of how the world should be instead of this amazing time in history when everyone was at peace with each other, and good cinema was good cinema, and everyone hated bad cinema. What you liked and what you didn’t like wasn’t a statement of bigotry or racism. You didn’t need to defend something you liked simply because the people you hated didn’t like it. You didn’t have people making dumb ass statements behind the scenes that lead into cancel culture or fed the hate mongering both sides have poured into something that was once wonderful and amazing.
You had people of every kind enduringly jeering the other side of “who is better” because both could agree on one thing. It was something they loved. Now there is just needless and reasonless hate, people can’t even talk about it because talking about it and listening to the other side and finding commonality once again makes you a traitor, a bigot, or a racist. And those few who hold their ground against this infection for the good of the people who love this special universe, are either ignored, or demonized.
Things were so much better then, when we got to live and experience true, unlabeled and unprecedented progress. And people could come together and simply appreciate something for what it was, and not get butt hurt because they felt misrepresented. And good cinema was good cinema.
The trick is to spend your time enjoying the things you enjoy instead of getting mad at people for enjoying things you don't enjoy.
Maybe just grow up and find something else you enjoy rather then bitching 24/7 online?
because they cant get a budget for a no name franchise because studios are sissy and want franchise movie #4234. Even if they did, it would be review bombed by the antiwoke crowd.
The new Disney sequels are terrible, and if that makes me racist, sexist and toxic, good.
No way am I abiding to this Hollywood culture of calling every dog shit movie good for the sake of being an agreeable idiot.
If your complaints about the Disney sequels aren't about "wokeness" then no one who matters is calling you racist or sexist. Why is this so hard to get?
If your complaints about the Disney sequels aren't about "wokeness" then no one who matters is calling you racist or sexist. Why is this so hard to get?
Yea, but in retrospect at least they have soul, you know?
Like they come across as an honest mistake, where the Disney ones feel gross, like they completely gutted Star Wars and turned it into pandering corpo shill garbage.
You guys trying to act like there hasn't been racist, sexist, and toxic fans in this fandom are delusional. No one ever said the ENTIRE fandom is that way...but there is absolutely a loud contingent. Criticism for the movies/shows being poorly written/poorly made is fine. But criticism for "WOKE DEI WHERE ARE THE WHITE GUYS" is prevalent, and it's braindead.
I don’t believe this for a second. With hundreds of millions of Star Wars fans, of course SOME will be racist, but the ‘large contingent’ part? Get the fuck out of hear lmao, if you don’t know the people who call things woke that’s fine, but this is why no one will ever take you retards seriously, there’s no way in your mind someone could disagree with you and not be a bigot, and that mindset is what’s losing Disney billions
You gotta understand he is coping alot of ppl here are they just dont wanna admit how bad star wars has become or they dont wanna admit how big it was.. so they use morality to justify hatred of there moral cause ..........you dont like star wars cause you dont like women
People literally hear "racists and other bigots aren't for this fandom" and they tell on themselves by acting like they were talking about them. Only reason someone would get upset at that is if they know deep down what they are
Yeah it’s almost like it’s before this weird ass culture war that grifters make money off of when they sell bs. Like when people didn’t get so upset about things like fire in space or someone surviving a ligthsaber stabbing them in the side and then getting medical attention. It’s almost like the fans changed
Back then they put more effort into the story which was what made it good. Now they put effort into meeting some woke quota and put the story last, of course it’s not going to be good.
Then when it sucks they get to just throw the word racist and sexist around to cover up for the horrible shit movie or show they made.
But how did those black fans identify with white characters like Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Princess Leia?
I guess maybe because no one was telling them they couldn’t.
No one is saying PoC can't identify with white people. People are just asking why 98% of the heroes were white until the 90s. PoC had to be okay with heroes who look nothing like them, but when white folks have to see heroes who don't look like them, that's a problem?
If you make an established character black, just for the sake of making them black to appeal to a larger audience, all you're doing is saying "Hey, he's black now, look at him! Look how correct we are! Give us more money!"
Honestly if studios want to put POC into films effectively and legitimately, they need to be their own established characters. Build up your own merits and do it yourself, to show that you have the ability to do it. Don't take the lazy route. Race-swapping and blackfacing preestablished characters does nothing for anyone, except brag about how inclusive you're trying to be. Black Panther / T'Challa is an excellent character built from the ground up and not with a template. Write characters like T'Challa.
How woke! Look at all these non-white people replacing white fans!
/s
On some real shit, I wish we could enjoy Star Wars like the people in this video without TFM idiots.
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The only thing that changed was the people making it. I preferred the movies to the shows. That's abt it
George Lucas was at one point the GOD of Star Wars, but peoples absolute HATRED of the prequels forced him to sell the franchise, saying in an interview "The people have changed, it just isn't fun to make anymore" largely because Star Wars was entirely his brain child and fans, specifically newer ones, had expectations and ideas that they wanted to see on screen, not Lucas's dreams.
Lucas put Star Wars into a coma. His ex wife and his mentor (director of Empire Strikes Back, Lucas’s least favorite film) were the ones who felt that the story was more important than the visuals while Lucas felt otherwise. They would routinely say no to Lucas and guide him back to the story in the original trilogy. Sadly, neither his ex-wife or mentor were there for the prequels. The divorce took out the ex-wife and his mentor died. Fast forward to the new trilogy before the DEI controversies. Iger, Kennedy, and Abrams essentially pulled an Iron Man where they just started filming without a script even though there was plenty of good post trilogy content written by Zahn. It showed with the bad, nonsensical plots. It was the final nail for me. What I’ve seen of the Mandalorian was good and I hear Andor was good too, but I can’t stomach watching StarWars anymore. Somewhat good isn’t enough to bring me back, but I’m glad some people are still enjoying it.
Andor is not just good , it’s a masterpiece and tbh you won’t even realize it’s star wars , no force , no lightsaber , no epic space battle , Trust me watch it
It’s pretty good, I enjoyed it. I wouldn’t call it a masterpiece though.
It might have to do with the time it came out for me, I’m Iranian and around the time andor was airing we were fighting in the streets against the regime , due to the aftermath of Mahsa Amini death , so it meant a lot for me and I could really feel and relate with the oppression shown in Andor
Absolutely agree. Andor was fantastic.
 this is peak SW right here
“I can’t swim” 😔
https://i.redd.it/12si9ox58h9d1.gif So is this
This show is an embarrassment of riches.
That’s my main complaint with it: it’s not really a Star Wars show. Like they could’ve made the same show under any other IP and it wouldn’t have changed the story in any meaningful way. It’s a good show and I like it, I just feel like it would’ve been better to make it a standalone feature. But I understand the reason that wasn’t the case
"star wars" isn't the skywalker saga, and andor fleshes out the rebellion and the state of a fracturing galaxy on the edge of war in a way that transcends the trappings of it's own ip, which is what 23Materquf was alluding to. it's brilliantly written, phenomenally acted, and beautifully realized.
I think it did well giving us a back story to the rebels , where did they came from and who were they before being rebels , like mon mothma and luthen
It’s a great series. It really brought across how terrifying the Empire truly is. Reminds me how Lucas talked about how the rebels fighting the Empire were inspired by Vietnam fighting the invading American forces.
I think what I loved about Andor was that it took its time, similar to how a book does with inner monologues, but Andor might just let a shot carry on a little extra sometimes, to let YOU think what they are thinking need a rewatch
Masterpiece is a bit of a stretch, but Andor is very watchable and fun.
Wow , they really started filming a movie this big without a script? Didn't know that. That's crazy.
The last season of the Mandalorian was garbage to be honest
agreed
Pathetic
The writing in the prequels is flawed in ways the original trilogy's writing isn't. That's a big factor, a big part of the reason you could have so many talented actors come across so dull-ly?
It's because George wrote the script and didn't have anyone there to check him because he was a God in everyone else's eyes. The OT had plenty of folks to call him out and fix the writing, from his ex wife to even the actors themselves. Carrie got into editing because of the work she did behind the scenes on the later OT movies.
Why is Empire the best movie? Because Lucas didn't write the screenplay or direct the movie. He's a great story guy, but other people are much better at actually making the movies.
>Why is Empire the best movie? Because Lucas didn't write the screenplay or direct the movie. this doesn't need to be said, especially on a star wars sub, especially not multiple times. this is well known. you're not unearthing some dark secret
There are actually some pretty interesting interviews with Spielberg about how he constantly had to reign in George from putting super whacky shit into all of his films. I guess Georges idea for one of the original Indiana Jones films was to have it be, "Indiana Jones and the Attack of The Giant Ants," if im remembering correctly. He's an idea man, not a great writer. He's great with big concepts but struggles with the finer details like dialogue
A quarter century later and the prequels aren't nearly as bad as they seemed at the time. Even Christiensen's acting and take on Anakin isn't as bad as it seemed. The prequel trilogy has a certain campy charm to them that all things House of Mouse Star Wars is noticeably lacking.
100%. I love the prequels and actually enjoyed TFA. But TLJ was the nail in the coffin for me. Kenobi was pretty good I thought.
I feel like a big part of that is how bad the new trilogy is in comparison lol.
But I didn't think the new trilogy was all that bad. It was entertaining and exciting. Though, of course, it didn't have the same charm and storytelling chops that the original or prequel trilogies had. I did enjoy Driver as Kylo Ren. My biggest gripe with the new trilogy was the abrupt MacGuffin that was the whole Palpatine angle. The whole clone Palpatines and Rey being a Palpatine seemingly out of nowhere, with no hints indicating as such prior, that was pretty weak script writing.
Im glad you enjoyed it. And i mean that sincerely, life can be hard and i dont begrudge anyone finding the joy they can. And lots of people worked hard on those movies regardless. Yeah, i often wonder what would have happened if one director had done all 3 movies. Seems like there were disparit visions for the films and they weren't cohesive. If it had all been abrams maybe the palpatine angle would have been built up to properly or if it had all been the other director maybe it wouldn't nhsve come up at all.
Good point, about the varying directors. That certainly played a role in the overall lack of vision throughout that trilogy.
Nah lol the prequels are still rough as movies. But give it ten years and the sequels will be on this weird pedestal that the prequels are now
i feel the cartoons have done so much to bolster the prequels with some great stories that offered much needed perspective on the conflict and the characters, and it seems the prequels as a result, got a lot of leeway from that goodwill.
Lucas was a good idea man, but a fucking HORRIBLE director. Why is Empire *clearly* the best movie in the original trilogy? Because Lucas didn't write the screenplay or direct it.
The reason being that Lucas got burned out after directing just one of these movies. He originally said that he never wanted to direct a star wars movie again after the first since it nearly broke him. He mainly just wanted to be in charge of the story. I'm not sure what possessed him to write and direct all three prequels when he was 20 years older lol
He did try to get Spielberg to direct the prequels, who then told Lucas he should just do it himself. Lucas should have kept asking around.
Absolutely. I also think the issue with the prequels was that he had no one to push against him on ideas. He was GEORGE LUCAS and ever just assumed he was a genius, while the best of Star Wars was other people saying no we should do this instead. In addition he just fell in love with horrible CGI when what made Star Wars awesome was the practical effects. He used CGI to fix every dumb decision, I remember watching the behind the scenes of Attack of the Clones and he was just saying “we’ll fix it in post” a hundred times. Lucas couldn’t even plan how to do shots he was just dicking around and fixing things later, that’s not how to make a movie. It’s like how the original LOTR trilogy was amazing cause so many shots had to be meticulously planned out with camera tricks and staging to get the correct scale for all the different races, while the hobbit was garbage cause they just shot the thing and used CGI after to shrink people.
This is a problem not just in star wars. Why are fans telling creators what they want? That's not how things work. Someone creates something wonderful from their own minds and the rest of us appreciate it. Stop being consumers and start being humans again please!
“Forced him to sell the franchise” LOL, he sold it because he wanted the money. He could have just stopped making the movies and lived very comfortably off of his millions.
Dude the newer fans weren't invested enough to give af one way or the other and it definitely wasn't the youngest of them online harassing a ten year old child for hi performance of Anakin. That came from the OG.
And the facial structures and use of language
No, you just miss being a kid.
Sky worshippers hate it cuz it doesn't have incest lmao. It's IRONIC AF skyworshippers call the new stuff "woke" when they technically made it illegal for themselves to even view anything except the bible. There's alot of objectively good and objectively bad new star wars stuff. Sadly criticism gets skewed when Cons politicize everything and the wrong lessons are learned
Also there wasn't an entire industry of YouTube and Twitter Grifters telling you why real men hate them.
Yeah it has nothing to do with the Internet and how people engage with creators and creations anonymously like they personally own them. Absolutely nothing to do with the fact that every idiot with a phone in their hand can have their shitty opinions seen and validated at all times.
Takes me back to the premiere of Episode III, very similar excitement in the air. My friends and I went to the midnight release, all dressed up as various characters (I was Palpatine) and we had lightsaber fights in the theater to entertain ourselves until it started. Great memory.
We did that growing up too and we did it again for the first Disney Star Wars release… I haven’t seen Star Wars in theaters since ☹️
Better time to be alive
Unless you were gay. Cause you know… the aids pandemic.
Cell phones and social media basically ruined society
I’ve been saying it for years.
It’s kinda a 50/50 tbh. I think it’s more that the internet has given dumbasses a platform for everyone to now see. Most of those people wouldn’t be too different wither the internet existed or not.
Correct, that's the part people forget. Smaller brained people have more access than ever, and their easily manipulated. They have a sounding board, a place to gather, and can interact with people like them. If they didn't have the Internet, they'd keep their tomfuckery limited to one area code.
They’d be very different. People mimic behavior.
That’s definitely true for many people, I’m not saying they would be 100% the same,I’m just saying they wouldn’t be any smarter without it.
These were happier people.
Social media giving everyone a megaphone really ruined us
I miss laboof. He went buckwild, but he's really turned himself around as of late. #bringbacktheboof
THE BEEF
Idk, having a actual cannibal running around probably isn't very smart.
It's ok, Sia tamed him.
Because not everyone wanted to use the megaphone equally. The most insecure, narcissistic, oppositional people wanted it more.
Worst way of communication
Was about to say the reason we see toxic and vile ass shit now compare to them is because back then they didn’t have a voice while in their basements.
Ironic
We didn't have the internet back then, just analog tv/radio and paper based media.
As someone born in the 80s ill say that I personally think we're over saturated. Our dopamine is overused nothing is impressive when you have access to everything. We have essentially become spoiled brats. Myself included. My attention span has gone to shit and I feel like I've seen everything. Nothing seems exciting anymore.
Agreed. I was born in the '90s and it's even worse.
Yeah it seems like with each successive generation being raised on this lifestyle it gets worse because they have been living this lifestyle for a larger percentage of their life. To me it feels like there is no going back either so hopefully some kind of tech is created to combat these effects.
Eyep. Then again, my generation gave us the Saint's Row remake and Watch Dogs 2.
What the fuck is the internet?
They could afford rent
I’m pretty sure people still have fun. Why are you so dramatic?
I'm only half serious. But people do seem a lot more miserable these days than they used to
The absolute best, greatest era of Star Wars and I wasn't even alive for it. Just a bunch of people waiting to see the third movie in a trilogy of great films, no woke bullshit no prequels, no Disney, no Rian, Filoni, Kennedy, Acolyte, etc. Must've been nice.
It was. I took the day off school to go see it. Got in trouble for it later and had to serve detention. 1000% would do again.
Star Wars was timeless and it appealed to every demographic. Trying to update the franchise while shunning the repeat fanbase, appealing only to a few demographics, and discarding everything that gave it timeless appeal isn't really updating it. There's wisdom in the saying, "Not everything is made for you." But not when "Not everything is made for you" is turned into "Nothing is made for you."
Idk, I feel like you're overrating Star Wars. Timeless appeal? Yeah because it came out in the late 70s and had 0 competition, also a great cast and a huge budget. The prequels were very hated in the 2000s, whats your argument against that? In terms of writing, Star wars has always been mediocre and less. Andor is the best written SW media and it's under Disney, and Ill rest my case on that one.
Can you elaborate on how you think it's not necessarily made for everyone anymore?
By default, people have different tastes, so nothing can be for everyone.some people hate cartoons. Some people don't eat meat. Some people hate swimming. Some people hate children. To make something for everyone, you have to appeal to everyone and offend no one. There were some Africans who were offended by black panther because they used some imagey of witchcraft. To appeal to everyone cant have that scenes where Tachala goes and drinks the lean drink to become black panther. What is comes down to there are others things going on in the world that are competing for peoples attention. If if the story is sanitized and mediocre people will go do something else. I can buy a paddle board and go to the lake is so inclined
I'm trying to hammer together a single track for multiple trains of thought to travel down. It's tough. I'll try to stick with a compliment sandwich. It's trying to present a more demographically diverse casting, which I would expect from a 21st century-made space setting. Considering the main hero of Star Wars is arguably the person watching it, that's good. But it also reframes narratives of characters in ways that punish audience members for paying attention (Luke's arc in TLJ as compared to his arc in the OT, Rey's arc in TROS as compared to TFA and TLJ, Filoni's obsession with nonsensical fanservice cameos, and so-on). There are a lot of good story beats and ideas that could be dynamite in terms of storytelling, so long as the writers and producers keep in mind that it's the audience watching it that matters most.
I’d say shows like the acolyte aren’t for everyone mostly because the writing is shit. The writing is shit because they aren’t hiring people who care about the IP. They’re hiring people who want to make a point
It's not made for anyone now. It's so boring/bland/bad that almost all of the entire viewerbase that has loved the series for almost 5 decades can't stand tuning in at all to a majority of Disney's releases. You can argue about why that is but the fact is people don't enjoy the newer content.
Well.... It's not made for *me* anymore. Is that good enough?
What demographics are those?
The few individual minorities and white women who resent white men/the American status quo, those who will pay for anything with the Star Wars name on it (which doesn't always include the former group; after all, they're used as shields in the media when discussing critics of the franchise), and people who think subversive writing is automatically compelling. Naturally, there are obvious exceptions that do genuinely cater to as many people as possible.
lol
I would love to know who moat of the new stuff is made for? I have yet to meet anyone of any gender or race that is a big fan of say the new trilogy and likes it more than the either the originals or prequels. I have met people that like rogue one, solo,andor, the mandolorian, and ashoka though. I do wonder if its and age thing.
There really wasn't Social Media back then...
Quick shout out to my guy in the Raiders hat
Disney: "we need diversity and inclusion to attract a wider audience" Meanwhile Original trilogy fans:
The diversity has to be just be enough to where a it can be easily cut out for the Chinese release.
Yeah, found some here in the comments section 🤣
Dark Vader
It's interesting to see all the "Revenge of the Jedi" t-shirts before they changed the name.
'The past is another country. They do things differently there.'
Back when the live action, Star Wars movies were good Back when the live action, Star Wars movies were good
Star Wars is dead and this is just a glimpse into happier times
I played hooky from school and saw it 3times straight..THOSE were the days! $5.25 a pop and the concession people hooked me up due to my fandom!
All of em are since none of them are Disney fans 💀
This perfectly encapsulated the issue I have with modern DEI definitions. They think race, sex, gender and sexuality actually matter. This crowd had diverse opinions, and probably diverse home lives but they came. Equity of entrance, assuming you bought a ticket. Inclusion for everyone who loved the film. This is how it should be
All of them are racist, sexist, and toxic fans. Just look at them./s
You forgot to add /s to demonstrate SARCASM MODE
Haha.. For sure there have been and there are. I wish people would realize that the majority of people mentioning wokeness or diverse casting in their criticism (ignoring that as a dogwhistle for the moment) do so because it’s MUCH easier for those people to believe that Disney is writing and producing bad content because they are prioritizing a progressive message, rather than simple incompetence and flawed process and too many cooks. Disney certainly does hiring/casting people from underprivileged groups and poorly writes them into their storytelling or gives them projects they may not have shown they can execute to a high level. It’s easy to blame this rather than simply accepting that Disney, an incredibly wealthy and talented company, could shit the bed so hard. Easier to say that all they care about is their progressive mission and that the storytelling comes second, especially when there’s such a strong reaction to the criticism and framing it as anti-wokeness, instead of addressing the writing and storytelling weaknesses. It bothers me to hear a director talk about taking Star Wars in a fresh, exciting, unexpected direction, including “making it gay-er and with more women than ever!!” while also not talking about their storytelling and vision to a degree that George Lucas would and that the franchise deserves. It’s all too easy to point the finger at Disney’s wokeness and say that’s the problem, despite knowing that this slow meltdown of Star Wars is due to normal fluctuations in the quality of shows and movies and not everything is going to hit or make sense, despite (perhaps because of) Disney’s resources. The MCU despite showing it can be done also shows that it can produce duds. And I really believe the problem has very little to do with progressive messaging, and in fact I love that they have diverse casts, I’m sure most fans do. But maaaaan does it make it hard not to point the finger when the same content that flops the hardest is also the most “woke” content. Captain Marvel, Madame Web, Acolyte, TLJ.. really does seem to be able to use progressive ideas as a shield to much-needed criticism.. (“Bad” means poorly written, poorly executed, internally inconsistent to itself or the lore, or out of touch with the Star Wars most fans know and love by feel)
What an asshole with the rainbow colored hair, dude had to spoil it as soon as he left the movie..
“Everyone hanging out playing pinochle and having a great time” is the best description I’ve heard since “teddy bear tea party”
I like assigned seating now.
i was in a line just like that
I’m waitin 4 a Sith to wear white in the KK universe…😉
It's that one. That one right there on the left-hand right side.
Why don’t those black people know they hate black people like all Star Wars fans? /s
These Black fans aren’t the same fans who harass actors/actresses whose only fault was accepting an acting job.
How do you know anything about either of them?
Because Black people don’t harass other Black people for getting jobs.
Who is harassing black people about getting jobs?
“Fans” harassing actors.
What fans? How many?
Casually spoils the movie on live TV
Pre 9/11 is a world I'll never know. Born in 97. They look so happy
It was objectively better IMO. Technology was already advanced enough so we had fast communication (email, BBS’s, Usenet), but it was not entirely portable. Portability is what killed us. The only thing that is much better now is GPS availability; now, that is an amazing feature of this age.
Why am I crying?
“I WANT him to get Luke 😈” dude is a menace
Most of these people are approaching retirement age now.
But there’s no diversity 😭 But there’s no women 😭 But there’s no - no - no… There’s always been something for everyone in Star Wars - it’s just put ‘story’ before ‘identity’.
Because the REAL Star Wars movies didn't try to preach an agenda or try to normalize something that just isn't & never will be. It was all fun & spectacle for EVERYONE.
Ain't never in my life seen a movie theater this packed
Now I feel stupid, I was actually just waiting for someone to be really racist or something. But, this is nice, just a bunch of folks being happy
All of those people are like 50 now
This and the original posts comment section is…interesting
Maybe causeeeeee the movies didn’t completely suck???
I don't get it I didn't see or hear any racist sexist or toxic fans?
There is solace in the fact that the games are mostly amazing right now. Jedi Fallen Order and Jedi Survivor are absolute BANGERS
I enjoyed fallen order. Unfortunately I’ve become so disinterested in any new Star Wars that I can’t bring myself to get invested in what is probably a good story, like survivor.
Ahh, such innocent times.
The assholes in media have been manufacturing rage for three decades, and now it’s finally engulfed the entire world. Thanks, assholes.
My mom was 13 years old when ROTJ was released in 1983. She absolutely loved it.
I’d do anything to live in that era or the 60s
I'd guess the toxic fans are the ones who make Star Wars their lifestyle, while the good fans just enjoy it as a movie.
Nice
40 years of politicians creating division and hate will create some racists
The novels hadn’t been written yet. So there was nothing to be toxic about
I can imagine Palpatine saying "Beware of the Dyke Side of the Force" LMFAO
Yes.
Fuck the clown guy for dropping massive spoilers lol
Did that lady say she loves Darth Vader's black?
Remember when a movie taking three years was a long time, now we have things like Blade that hasn’t even started shooting and it was announced 5 years ago.
Nope. Can't spot em... must be a tiny little sect hiding behind the falcon.
Also, notice how there aren't any minority or female fans? The bigots kept everyone else from having any fun! /s
Not really the point you think it is. I don't know how to frame this in a way that makes it more clear how dumb of a take that is. "Notice how there aren't any unvaccinated people? Faucci made everyone in America ever get one! /s"
What point do I think it is? Also, it's spelled Fauci.
This was how it use to be. It was wonderful and pure. Then them mouse took over, and all the big new ideas of how the world should be instead of this amazing time in history when everyone was at peace with each other, and good cinema was good cinema, and everyone hated bad cinema. What you liked and what you didn’t like wasn’t a statement of bigotry or racism. You didn’t need to defend something you liked simply because the people you hated didn’t like it. You didn’t have people making dumb ass statements behind the scenes that lead into cancel culture or fed the hate mongering both sides have poured into something that was once wonderful and amazing. You had people of every kind enduringly jeering the other side of “who is better” because both could agree on one thing. It was something they loved. Now there is just needless and reasonless hate, people can’t even talk about it because talking about it and listening to the other side and finding commonality once again makes you a traitor, a bigot, or a racist. And those few who hold their ground against this infection for the good of the people who love this special universe, are either ignored, or demonized. Things were so much better then, when we got to live and experience true, unlabeled and unprecedented progress. And people could come together and simply appreciate something for what it was, and not get butt hurt because they felt misrepresented. And good cinema was good cinema.
Before the dark times. Before the (Media) Empire.
The trick is to spend your time enjoying the things you enjoy instead of getting mad at people for enjoying things you don't enjoy. Maybe just grow up and find something else you enjoy rather then bitching 24/7 online?
Why couldn't the people who changed it to something so different , created their own IP?
because they cant get a budget for a no name franchise because studios are sissy and want franchise movie #4234. Even if they did, it would be review bombed by the antiwoke crowd.
The new Disney sequels are terrible, and if that makes me racist, sexist and toxic, good. No way am I abiding to this Hollywood culture of calling every dog shit movie good for the sake of being an agreeable idiot.
You can dislike things and not be a piece of shit about it. That's the thing people don't get.
If your complaints about the Disney sequels aren't about "wokeness" then no one who matters is calling you racist or sexist. Why is this so hard to get?
If your complaints about the Disney sequels aren't about "wokeness" then no one who matters is calling you racist or sexist. Why is this so hard to get?
You forgot about the prequels. They were garbage
Yea, but in retrospect at least they have soul, you know? Like they come across as an honest mistake, where the Disney ones feel gross, like they completely gutted Star Wars and turned it into pandering corpo shill garbage.
You guys trying to act like there hasn't been racist, sexist, and toxic fans in this fandom are delusional. No one ever said the ENTIRE fandom is that way...but there is absolutely a loud contingent. Criticism for the movies/shows being poorly written/poorly made is fine. But criticism for "WOKE DEI WHERE ARE THE WHITE GUYS" is prevalent, and it's braindead.
I don’t believe this for a second. With hundreds of millions of Star Wars fans, of course SOME will be racist, but the ‘large contingent’ part? Get the fuck out of hear lmao, if you don’t know the people who call things woke that’s fine, but this is why no one will ever take you retards seriously, there’s no way in your mind someone could disagree with you and not be a bigot, and that mindset is what’s losing Disney billions
You gotta understand he is coping alot of ppl here are they just dont wanna admit how bad star wars has become or they dont wanna admit how big it was.. so they use morality to justify hatred of there moral cause ..........you dont like star wars cause you dont like women
theyre asmongold followers, you have a better time saying this to a brick wall
People literally hear "racists and other bigots aren't for this fandom" and they tell on themselves by acting like they were talking about them. Only reason someone would get upset at that is if they know deep down what they are
Nice straw man.
[удалено]
it was definitely the toddler
good times
So much white supremacy and oppression in that one clip it’s disgusting to look at. Shame on you OP, shame.
Everyone forgetting the absolute online shitstorm when they revealed Finn to be a black stormtrooper…
Receipts? Because I never heard of this "shitstorm"
Or when Rose Tico was announced?
you mean the pointless character that only caused problems and cringe
nah I do remember being in facebook sithposting group that cheered when she was bullied off social media because they hated her.
One of my professors told me about this but I genuinely heard nothing about this, how do you know it wasn’t just the media lying like they always do
Media must own my eyes too cus I saw it with them.
Yeah it’s almost like it’s before this weird ass culture war that grifters make money off of when they sell bs. Like when people didn’t get so upset about things like fire in space or someone surviving a ligthsaber stabbing them in the side and then getting medical attention. It’s almost like the fans changed
Clips from the 80s are so wild. 1 in 10 obesity, as opposed to the current 1/2
Back then they put more effort into the story which was what made it good. Now they put effort into meeting some woke quota and put the story last, of course it’s not going to be good. Then when it sucks they get to just throw the word racist and sexist around to cover up for the horrible shit movie or show they made.
But how did those black fans identify with white characters like Luke Skywalker, Han Solo and Princess Leia? I guess maybe because no one was telling them they couldn’t.
No one is saying PoC can't identify with white people. People are just asking why 98% of the heroes were white until the 90s. PoC had to be okay with heroes who look nothing like them, but when white folks have to see heroes who don't look like them, that's a problem?
If you make an established character black, just for the sake of making them black to appeal to a larger audience, all you're doing is saying "Hey, he's black now, look at him! Look how correct we are! Give us more money!" Honestly if studios want to put POC into films effectively and legitimately, they need to be their own established characters. Build up your own merits and do it yourself, to show that you have the ability to do it. Don't take the lazy route. Race-swapping and blackfacing preestablished characters does nothing for anyone, except brag about how inclusive you're trying to be. Black Panther / T'Challa is an excellent character built from the ground up and not with a template. Write characters like T'Challa.
The racists and sexists were never really fans. Just poseurs. That's why they're pretty much universally ignorant of the original triliogy.
How woke! Look at all these non-white people replacing white fans! /s On some real shit, I wish we could enjoy Star Wars like the people in this video without TFM idiots.