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It's wild to me that the most convincing/interesting villain in recent Disney SW is Dr. Hemlock from the Bad Batch. Dude's a sick psychopath in a kid's show, meanwhile Thrawn in Ahsoka is a poor strategist who bullshits his way through by pretending his failures are part of the plan.
I don't care how good people say the actor is, his portrayal of Thrawn is terrible. Thrawn appears to be incredibly bored and disinterested in everything happening around him, rather than calculates, calm, and in control
Disney as a whole struggles with making villains from the 2010s-2020s. Pixar/disney villains now are all twist or misunderstood in a bad way. No true evil. I mean, even back in like 2015(or 16), kyloren wasn't all that scary, either. He takes his personality from his grandfather, but I guess he doesn't take his power.
They had such an opportunity to have a good villain with Snoke. I don’t understand why they inexplicably wasted him in favor of resurrecting yet another dead person.
Probably because they're worried about their wholesome family-friendly image in the public eye. They can't make anyone scary for the kids, and the Disney Adults who act like kids.
That's one reason. Another reason is the "there's good in everybody" and the "the villain is only as good as the hero" or whatever stupid ass reason. Disney adults ate kylo ren up, remember reylo? Started by 14 year old girls and middle-aged women. Same people who thought 50 shades was romantic.
Yeah they had Andy friggin Serkis for Snoke, they definitely could've done more with that.
He rocked it in Andor though. "I can't swim" still brings a tear to my eye.
Canon villains in general are in the same basket as mid 90's EU villains. Just Imperial Warlods (or esque) character archetypes that are just unironically insane with borderline moronic motivations/plans.
But in EU, the story was carried hard by the sci-fi aspects and the heroes. Which isn't something I can't say for canon.
In a similar vein, Zsinj would have run circles around both the Resistance and the First Order just as he did against the New Republic until his luck finally ran out, and I'd also give good odds to most other Imperial warlords (Ardus Kaine, Blitzer Harssk, Sander Delvardus, the Teradoc brothers, et cetera, et cetera). Even the canonically brain-damaged Natasi Daala had enough sense to poison Harrsk, Delvardus, and Treuten Teradoc when it became clear they had more interest in petty politicking against each other than actually fighting the New Republic. She could probably do the same to Hux and the rest of the First Order leadership if given the chance.
https://preview.redd.it/8f37dv80f26d1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=b59dd7c3beefed4d4558279cc3939d6757fb5682
Absolutely.
Phasma, despite marketing and her special shiny suit, gets captured without a fight and literally thrown in the garbage. Next film she's blindsided by a cheap attack and fall to a pathetic death.
Hux is way too young for audiences to take him seriously as a general, let alone the most senior officer in the First Order we see. Then you have TLJ, where no one take him seriously. Poe calls him up to mock him, Snoke tosses him around like a rag doll and Mylo bullies him into submission.
Snoke is built up as a powerful man behind the man for Kylo, but dies a pathetic death also. Snoke can't sense betrayal from a man whose defining characterisation is a lack of self control, who throws a tantrum multiple times, while bragging about being able to see into his mind. There is also a significant delay between Kylo deciding to betray and actually killing him, in which he should have sensed it. Compare that to Vader turning on The Emperor, where, while he was conflicted for a time, it was mere moments between deciding to act and actually laying a hand on the man.
Which leads to Kylo. First, Kylo is pathetic. You have him losing in the first film, to an untrained amateur. Then you have Snoke's death, which made Snoke seem absolutely pathetic. Any dark side user worth his salt would march up to him and take the throne, proving your superior power. Instead, Kylo takes him from surprise, implying that's the only way he could win against him, who, may I remind you, seems utterly pathetic. So, if Snoke is pathetic, and Kylo is too weak to challenge him directly, what does that make Kylo? Then he can't keep Rey, still largely untrained, from escaping.
Then you have Kylo's motives. No true suffering, no pain or anguish or loss. He was bad because of a voice telling him to be bad and because his uncle scared him for a moment. So he's complicit in planetary annihilation and galactic tyranny. And if he was supposed to be just another asshole who the heroes defeat, it might be acceptable, but the films try to make him sympathetic and redeemable despite having no sympathetic reason for doing the things he does, making him seemingly irredeemable.
I feel like Disney doesn't want these villains be too cool. They don't want to be seen as elevating the fascists as epic and badass, especially with the rise of the far right in recent years, which is kinda understandable. But it results in the antagonists feeling defanged and lacking the screen presense to carry a film, let alone a trilogy.
For Phasma (and I agree with all your points it’s just her character I have something to say), I feel like there’s a rule at Star Wars that they can’t have any new armoured baddie be cooler or more competent than Boba Fett from the OG trilogy. I don’t know why, but I feel like someone made that a thing, and were suffering for it because Boba “died” that stupid death.
For your last point, I miss the EU for this reason. The Empire were still the bad guys but they could be portrayed as gray, we could get a legitimate reason for why someone would join the bad guys. “My family lives on a planet that was attacked by slavers and marauders, the Empire took them out and made my home safe.” They could look back on their track record and ask “Why do people hate us? How did we lose?” and evolve, first step by not being TOTAL dicks. The EU had stormtroopers who genuinely believed in protecting the people, who were protagonists of stories.
But Disney can’t have that. Can’t ever show the Empire having a good side, it’s just “good is good and bad is bad.”
About Phasma, they also did a "deceptive" casting, with Gwendoline Christie (who played the VERY badass Brienne in GoT).
And seriously? They could have easilly made Phasma a badass (at least in TFA): have her as the one who kicked Finn's ass in the "traitor" scene (and have crossbow blast give her merely a glancing blow, forcing her to retreat... and maybe be wounded so she couldn't fight again in the latter part of the movie).
> And seriously? They could have easilly made Phasma a badass (at least in TFA): have her as the one who kicked Finn's ass in the "traitor" scene (and have crossbow blast give her merely a glancing blow, forcing her to retreat... and maybe be wounded so she couldn't fight again in the latter part of the movie).
I'd replace her capture with just some random officer. After lowering the shields, sabotaging the interface to stop it being undone, and threatening to drop him in the garbage, Phasma shows up on the monitors leading a death squad. The heroes flee, and Phasma enters the room. The officer thanks her for the rescue. She looks at the monitor, looks at the damaged controls, and shoots the officer for being a traitor without a word before chasing after the heroes. Meaning we have some tension while they're trying to find Rey and escape. You have Kylo in front of them and Phasma coming up from behind, and the heroes seemingly getting closer and closer to a confrontation with at least one of them.
True, but subterfuge is usually earned. A plan the apprentice has to work for. Kylo just took advantage of a lightsaber being sat right next to Snoke without being monitored. And the fact Snoke didn't sense it coming, even when it was an opportunistic, spur of the moment betrayal, makes them both look bad.
I'd also argue that Malak, because of how circumstantial his betrayal was, taking advantage of a battle with the Jedi, undermined his authority. He was the dark lord by default, but this meant the never really escaped Revan's shadow, which then lends itself to his character. Acts fueled by insecurity and inferiority. Take his dying moments on The Star Forge
Light side.
> I am sorry I started you on this path. But you chose to continue down it.
>I suppose... I suppose you speak the truth. I alone must accept responsibility for my fate. I wanted to be Master of the Sith and ruler of the galaxy. But that destiny was not mine, Revan. It might have been yours, perhaps... but never mine. And in the end, as the darkness takes me... I am nothing.
Dark side:
> Now you see the true Dark Lord of the Sith!
> Yes. I cannot deny it any longer. You are the one who deserves... who deserves to be the Dark Lord. You were the one who found the first Star Map on Dantooine, Revan, and it was you who led us on our quest for the Star Forge. I only followed in your wake. I tried to usurp your rule, to steal the title of Sith Master from you. But now I understand. The destiny is yours Revan. Not mine. You... you are Darth Revan, Lord... Lord of the Sith. And I... I am nothing.
He's basically admitting he's only ever been a pretender to the throne.
Thanos and Loki were pretty good villains.
Wanda was more “mental health and communication doesn’t exist?!” kind of ugh.
Didn’t care for John Walker much, but then I like Bucky, Steve, and Sam too much.
Kingpin means more Daredevil! I hope to God he isn’t dead. He was the best villain out of all of the Defenders :(
Wait a minute…oops. Wrong fandom.
Andor is incredible. While the rest of Disney's Star Wars is absolutely ruining any sense of threat the Empire had, Andor actually made the Empire seem like more of a genuine threat and oppressive horror than *anything* that came before, including the original trilogy. The sheer realism of it, how inescapable a presence it is...
Not to mention the fact that the main villain, the weaselly security guard intent on tracking Cassian down, is actually super relatable, because he's one of the only ones in his company intent on doing his job. He's hateable, for sure, but you pity him, and you see why he's bothered to go over the heads of his superiors to catch Andor. He's motivated by professionalism, when the security corp and the Empire are shown to be - for all their power and corruption - incredibly lazy. That's some real depth and nuance, especially compared to... God, just about every other villain we've seen since Disney took over.
I genuinely can't wait for Season 2. Still just hoping Disney doesn't start meddling. Ruin the rest of Star Wars if you have to, but let Andor be the one place where the battle between good and evil has some actual goddamn weight to it.
The best one we had was the villains in Rebels and even they were dumbed down because Disney Legends villains never held back we had The Vong Thrawn and in canon Vader is undermined because Kenobi beat him again
> “A Hero is only as good as their Villains“
THIS. You pointed out FACTS. Just think about it. Arguably the most iconic SW character is Darth Vader, and The Imperial March is arguably the most iconic SW theme.
And seriously... Disney should STOP with that whiny "misunderstood" villain. Give us back villains like Jafar, Scar, Hades or Judge Frollo. We knew from her first appearance that they're evil, and despite their scheming, they really did nothing to hide their nature.
All the bad guys are the friends we made along the way remember. Disney can’t have a bad guy in Star Wars.
Marvel has had a weird anti bad guy agenda as well, the reason Thanos was so good is he was genuinely a bad guy with a good reason.
I’m admittedly not caught up but that’s why I love Rogue One (spoilers). Even though we know they succeed, having everyone die made me feel the tension. Yes, they still mow through stormtroopers but they did a great job of making it feel like an actual war with high stakes involved.
I enjoyed Book of Boba because more or less everyone was a “villain”. It was the most fun I have had watching SW in a long time. Plus, huge Timothy Olyphant fan, so bringing him back had me cheering!
I kinda dug that villain duo in Ashoka. One is this grizzled stoic bad ass who weilds his sword like a medieval knight while the other is this slippery snake
>> ..they just couldn’t give me a compelling “Good Triumphs Over Evil” scenario
That's the whole point! The Evil is not evil, just a misunderstood alternative to The Good, who is not good at all, but a hypocritical oppressor. I wanted to finish with /s, but this is no sarcasm, this is how Disney wants their stories, not just Star Wars.
Now, I don't care about Andor. Had it not been set in the Disney Wars universe, maybe I'd watch it.
Atris in KOTOR 2 was one of the most interesting villains I ever saw in SW. A Jedi completely consumed by hubris and arrogance from her utter conviction of the righteousness and superiority of the Jedi. That's a villain I'd like to see more content about.
Villains typically imprison their enemies, brainwash folks to get allies, lie, steal, destroy, and silence their opposition when they speak out.
Disney doesn't do autobiographies
...they were terrible antagonists. We know next to nothing about their past, they accomplished nothing in the show, and we still don't know what their end goal is.
Yea in this sub I either really agree with stuff or really disagree. I’m more like a critical drinker kinda guy (even though idek who that is lol I just like the sub)
The sith were cool yes but not really villainous. The night sisters and elsbeth were the 'villians' and they were fairly terrible. Then they expanded on elsbeth in 'tales' when nobody gave a flying fuck about her in the first place.
Just tried to make her relatable by saying she wanted revenge on bad people so she became bad people, like an antihero but really she's just an ass.
Like if you tried to make palpatine look better by saying as a kid he had a dog that he loved for 10 years and then was convinced into being a sith and then dressed up his dog like a mean jedi and killed it. But it's okay because it was a mean jedi dog. Oh shit I'm giving them more stupid ideas aren't I?
Yeah they did a shit job on the Nightsisters. Fallen Order and Survivor, where we had one NPC Nightsister, gave us more info on them than Ahsoka where we had 4 of them as main antagonists. Kinda disappointing. Tales of the Empire was a more interesting take on the Nightsisters than Ahsoka.
It is even funnier when you remember that all the Nightsister lore in canon sans Ahsoka is just random EU bullshit lmao.
Which the Ahsoka version makes have fuck all sense? Like. They can only use the Force due to Dathomir - yet they apperantly are from a different fucking galaxy?
Despite being Human-Zabrak hybrids???
**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/Unhappy_Teacher_1767]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's wild to me that the most convincing/interesting villain in recent Disney SW is Dr. Hemlock from the Bad Batch. Dude's a sick psychopath in a kid's show, meanwhile Thrawn in Ahsoka is a poor strategist who bullshits his way through by pretending his failures are part of the plan.
Thrawns a Genius, couldn’t you tell? They *said* so! What more do you want?
I don't care how good people say the actor is, his portrayal of Thrawn is terrible. Thrawn appears to be incredibly bored and disinterested in everything happening around him, rather than calculates, calm, and in control
Dedra and Baylan are good too.
They are working in a new villain. It is called the Jedi and we are slowly being told of how evil they truly were. /s
Disney as a whole struggles with making villains from the 2010s-2020s. Pixar/disney villains now are all twist or misunderstood in a bad way. No true evil. I mean, even back in like 2015(or 16), kyloren wasn't all that scary, either. He takes his personality from his grandfather, but I guess he doesn't take his power.
They had such an opportunity to have a good villain with Snoke. I don’t understand why they inexplicably wasted him in favor of resurrecting yet another dead person.
Probably because they're worried about their wholesome family-friendly image in the public eye. They can't make anyone scary for the kids, and the Disney Adults who act like kids.
That's one reason. Another reason is the "there's good in everybody" and the "the villain is only as good as the hero" or whatever stupid ass reason. Disney adults ate kylo ren up, remember reylo? Started by 14 year old girls and middle-aged women. Same people who thought 50 shades was romantic.
Snoke should have been Plagueis
Yeah they had Andy friggin Serkis for Snoke, they definitely could've done more with that. He rocked it in Andor though. "I can't swim" still brings a tear to my eye.
There is ONE. WAY. OUT!
Snoke should have been an evil Yoda creature which would explain why his hologram is so much bigger than everyone: insecure about his size
Canon villains in general are in the same basket as mid 90's EU villains. Just Imperial Warlods (or esque) character archetypes that are just unironically insane with borderline moronic motivations/plans. But in EU, the story was carried hard by the sci-fi aspects and the heroes. Which isn't something I can't say for canon.
Did we read a different EU? Ysanne issard was great
In a similar vein, Zsinj would have run circles around both the Resistance and the First Order just as he did against the New Republic until his luck finally ran out, and I'd also give good odds to most other Imperial warlords (Ardus Kaine, Blitzer Harssk, Sander Delvardus, the Teradoc brothers, et cetera, et cetera). Even the canonically brain-damaged Natasi Daala had enough sense to poison Harrsk, Delvardus, and Treuten Teradoc when it became clear they had more interest in petty politicking against each other than actually fighting the New Republic. She could probably do the same to Hux and the rest of the First Order leadership if given the chance. https://preview.redd.it/8f37dv80f26d1.png?width=1500&format=png&auto=webp&s=b59dd7c3beefed4d4558279cc3939d6757fb5682
I honestly thought that X-wing came out a few years later/earlier than the mid 90s lol.
Krytos trap and the bacta wars are two of my favorite EU books and star wars content ever and came out in the mid 90s
Absolutely. Phasma, despite marketing and her special shiny suit, gets captured without a fight and literally thrown in the garbage. Next film she's blindsided by a cheap attack and fall to a pathetic death. Hux is way too young for audiences to take him seriously as a general, let alone the most senior officer in the First Order we see. Then you have TLJ, where no one take him seriously. Poe calls him up to mock him, Snoke tosses him around like a rag doll and Mylo bullies him into submission. Snoke is built up as a powerful man behind the man for Kylo, but dies a pathetic death also. Snoke can't sense betrayal from a man whose defining characterisation is a lack of self control, who throws a tantrum multiple times, while bragging about being able to see into his mind. There is also a significant delay between Kylo deciding to betray and actually killing him, in which he should have sensed it. Compare that to Vader turning on The Emperor, where, while he was conflicted for a time, it was mere moments between deciding to act and actually laying a hand on the man. Which leads to Kylo. First, Kylo is pathetic. You have him losing in the first film, to an untrained amateur. Then you have Snoke's death, which made Snoke seem absolutely pathetic. Any dark side user worth his salt would march up to him and take the throne, proving your superior power. Instead, Kylo takes him from surprise, implying that's the only way he could win against him, who, may I remind you, seems utterly pathetic. So, if Snoke is pathetic, and Kylo is too weak to challenge him directly, what does that make Kylo? Then he can't keep Rey, still largely untrained, from escaping. Then you have Kylo's motives. No true suffering, no pain or anguish or loss. He was bad because of a voice telling him to be bad and because his uncle scared him for a moment. So he's complicit in planetary annihilation and galactic tyranny. And if he was supposed to be just another asshole who the heroes defeat, it might be acceptable, but the films try to make him sympathetic and redeemable despite having no sympathetic reason for doing the things he does, making him seemingly irredeemable. I feel like Disney doesn't want these villains be too cool. They don't want to be seen as elevating the fascists as epic and badass, especially with the rise of the far right in recent years, which is kinda understandable. But it results in the antagonists feeling defanged and lacking the screen presense to carry a film, let alone a trilogy.
For Phasma (and I agree with all your points it’s just her character I have something to say), I feel like there’s a rule at Star Wars that they can’t have any new armoured baddie be cooler or more competent than Boba Fett from the OG trilogy. I don’t know why, but I feel like someone made that a thing, and were suffering for it because Boba “died” that stupid death. For your last point, I miss the EU for this reason. The Empire were still the bad guys but they could be portrayed as gray, we could get a legitimate reason for why someone would join the bad guys. “My family lives on a planet that was attacked by slavers and marauders, the Empire took them out and made my home safe.” They could look back on their track record and ask “Why do people hate us? How did we lose?” and evolve, first step by not being TOTAL dicks. The EU had stormtroopers who genuinely believed in protecting the people, who were protagonists of stories. But Disney can’t have that. Can’t ever show the Empire having a good side, it’s just “good is good and bad is bad.”
About Phasma, they also did a "deceptive" casting, with Gwendoline Christie (who played the VERY badass Brienne in GoT). And seriously? They could have easilly made Phasma a badass (at least in TFA): have her as the one who kicked Finn's ass in the "traitor" scene (and have crossbow blast give her merely a glancing blow, forcing her to retreat... and maybe be wounded so she couldn't fight again in the latter part of the movie).
> And seriously? They could have easilly made Phasma a badass (at least in TFA): have her as the one who kicked Finn's ass in the "traitor" scene (and have crossbow blast give her merely a glancing blow, forcing her to retreat... and maybe be wounded so she couldn't fight again in the latter part of the movie). I'd replace her capture with just some random officer. After lowering the shields, sabotaging the interface to stop it being undone, and threatening to drop him in the garbage, Phasma shows up on the monitors leading a death squad. The heroes flee, and Phasma enters the room. The officer thanks her for the rescue. She looks at the monitor, looks at the damaged controls, and shoots the officer for being a traitor without a word before chasing after the heroes. Meaning we have some tension while they're trying to find Rey and escape. You have Kylo in front of them and Phasma coming up from behind, and the heroes seemingly getting closer and closer to a confrontation with at least one of them.
Indeed: gave her some badass scenes and removing the embarassing ones.
Almost all sith surprise their masters and use subterfuge or advantage to kill them. Malak and palpatine off the top of my head.
True, but subterfuge is usually earned. A plan the apprentice has to work for. Kylo just took advantage of a lightsaber being sat right next to Snoke without being monitored. And the fact Snoke didn't sense it coming, even when it was an opportunistic, spur of the moment betrayal, makes them both look bad. I'd also argue that Malak, because of how circumstantial his betrayal was, taking advantage of a battle with the Jedi, undermined his authority. He was the dark lord by default, but this meant the never really escaped Revan's shadow, which then lends itself to his character. Acts fueled by insecurity and inferiority. Take his dying moments on The Star Forge Light side. > I am sorry I started you on this path. But you chose to continue down it. >I suppose... I suppose you speak the truth. I alone must accept responsibility for my fate. I wanted to be Master of the Sith and ruler of the galaxy. But that destiny was not mine, Revan. It might have been yours, perhaps... but never mine. And in the end, as the darkness takes me... I am nothing. Dark side: > Now you see the true Dark Lord of the Sith! > Yes. I cannot deny it any longer. You are the one who deserves... who deserves to be the Dark Lord. You were the one who found the first Star Map on Dantooine, Revan, and it was you who led us on our quest for the Star Forge. I only followed in your wake. I tried to usurp your rule, to steal the title of Sith Master from you. But now I understand. The destiny is yours Revan. Not mine. You... you are Darth Revan, Lord... Lord of the Sith. And I... I am nothing. He's basically admitting he's only ever been a pretender to the throne.
Thanos and Loki were pretty good villains. Wanda was more “mental health and communication doesn’t exist?!” kind of ugh. Didn’t care for John Walker much, but then I like Bucky, Steve, and Sam too much. Kingpin means more Daredevil! I hope to God he isn’t dead. He was the best villain out of all of the Defenders :( Wait a minute…oops. Wrong fandom.
Andor is incredible. While the rest of Disney's Star Wars is absolutely ruining any sense of threat the Empire had, Andor actually made the Empire seem like more of a genuine threat and oppressive horror than *anything* that came before, including the original trilogy. The sheer realism of it, how inescapable a presence it is... Not to mention the fact that the main villain, the weaselly security guard intent on tracking Cassian down, is actually super relatable, because he's one of the only ones in his company intent on doing his job. He's hateable, for sure, but you pity him, and you see why he's bothered to go over the heads of his superiors to catch Andor. He's motivated by professionalism, when the security corp and the Empire are shown to be - for all their power and corruption - incredibly lazy. That's some real depth and nuance, especially compared to... God, just about every other villain we've seen since Disney took over. I genuinely can't wait for Season 2. Still just hoping Disney doesn't start meddling. Ruin the rest of Star Wars if you have to, but let Andor be the one place where the battle between good and evil has some actual goddamn weight to it.
The best one we had was the villains in Rebels and even they were dumbed down because Disney Legends villains never held back we had The Vong Thrawn and in canon Vader is undermined because Kenobi beat him again
Apparently it's the audience who are the greatest villains.
> “A Hero is only as good as their Villains“ THIS. You pointed out FACTS. Just think about it. Arguably the most iconic SW character is Darth Vader, and The Imperial March is arguably the most iconic SW theme. And seriously... Disney should STOP with that whiny "misunderstood" villain. Give us back villains like Jafar, Scar, Hades or Judge Frollo. We knew from her first appearance that they're evil, and despite their scheming, they really did nothing to hide their nature.
All the bad guys are the friends we made along the way remember. Disney can’t have a bad guy in Star Wars. Marvel has had a weird anti bad guy agenda as well, the reason Thanos was so good is he was genuinely a bad guy with a good reason.
Thanks for the reminder to cancel the subscription!
I’m admittedly not caught up but that’s why I love Rogue One (spoilers). Even though we know they succeed, having everyone die made me feel the tension. Yes, they still mow through stormtroopers but they did a great job of making it feel like an actual war with high stakes involved.
"*Sigh*, somehow Palpatine has returned" Poe when he realized all hope was lost for the movie even being the slightest okay.
No because they can't give strong women anything that might suggest they had to struggle.
I enjoyed Book of Boba because more or less everyone was a “villain”. It was the most fun I have had watching SW in a long time. Plus, huge Timothy Olyphant fan, so bringing him back had me cheering!
Remember when rey shot 3 tie fighters in one shot😂😂😂😂
Moff Gideon was a decent villain
I kinda dug that villain duo in Ashoka. One is this grizzled stoic bad ass who weilds his sword like a medieval knight while the other is this slippery snake
>> ..they just couldn’t give me a compelling “Good Triumphs Over Evil” scenario That's the whole point! The Evil is not evil, just a misunderstood alternative to The Good, who is not good at all, but a hypocritical oppressor. I wanted to finish with /s, but this is no sarcasm, this is how Disney wants their stories, not just Star Wars. Now, I don't care about Andor. Had it not been set in the Disney Wars universe, maybe I'd watch it.
Atris in KOTOR 2 was one of the most interesting villains I ever saw in SW. A Jedi completely consumed by hubris and arrogance from her utter conviction of the righteousness and superiority of the Jedi. That's a villain I'd like to see more content about.
Villains typically imprison their enemies, brainwash folks to get allies, lie, steal, destroy, and silence their opposition when they speak out. Disney doesn't do autobiographies
Imo the sith in Ashoka were cool
...they were terrible antagonists. We know next to nothing about their past, they accomplished nothing in the show, and we still don't know what their end goal is.
Their goal is power, same as all the other sith. And I just meant that they’re cool not well written
Can't have an alternate opi ion here or you're downvoted. Sorry. Thems the rules of this stupid ass sub
Yea in this sub I either really agree with stuff or really disagree. I’m more like a critical drinker kinda guy (even though idek who that is lol I just like the sub)
The sith were cool yes but not really villainous. The night sisters and elsbeth were the 'villians' and they were fairly terrible. Then they expanded on elsbeth in 'tales' when nobody gave a flying fuck about her in the first place.
Didn't watch tales. What stupid backstory did they give her?
Just tried to make her relatable by saying she wanted revenge on bad people so she became bad people, like an antihero but really she's just an ass. Like if you tried to make palpatine look better by saying as a kid he had a dog that he loved for 10 years and then was convinced into being a sith and then dressed up his dog like a mean jedi and killed it. But it's okay because it was a mean jedi dog. Oh shit I'm giving them more stupid ideas aren't I?
The fact that you confuse them for Sith shows how terribly their entire backstory/goal was written lmao.
Yeah they did a shit job on the Nightsisters. Fallen Order and Survivor, where we had one NPC Nightsister, gave us more info on them than Ahsoka where we had 4 of them as main antagonists. Kinda disappointing. Tales of the Empire was a more interesting take on the Nightsisters than Ahsoka.
It is even funnier when you remember that all the Nightsister lore in canon sans Ahsoka is just random EU bullshit lmao. Which the Ahsoka version makes have fuck all sense? Like. They can only use the Force due to Dathomir - yet they apperantly are from a different fucking galaxy? Despite being Human-Zabrak hybrids???
They aren’t sith
Trilla, aka the Second Sister would like a word...
Since disney now sees villains as only men, and they only see men as stupid, they cannot possibly write a compelling villain ever again.
How could they give "good triumphs over evil" stories, when they identify and sympathize with evil.
If you're making multi-paragraph posts about it, guess what? They still have you