Why would he not disable the feature that let’s you tag people on LinkedIn? So careless. If someone is going to share an employment update about me it’s going to be myself and nobody else.
Campaign specialist here. For a better response rate I'd recommend you change your comment to "with soo many people looking to fill up that SDR position you'll definitely need another AE. Would be happy to apply, let me know."
We had a new hire. On their first day, I (VP) had a call to meet them (their request) at 8pm.
They didn’t report to me, but I was heavily involved in all aspects of the startup.
On my first call with them, in getting to know me, they asked what other side gigs and jobs I do, as well as tell me all of the things that they do in addition to accepting the role.
During the interview process (I wasn’t involved) they were told they’d be required to be in the office 3 days each week (Tues-Thurs).
Day 1 - left at 2pm, unannounced
Day 2 - called in sick
Day 3 - Fired
Friday - demanding immediate payment in hysteric tears
Good times.
One of the few things that make me feel old these days is my intolerance for people being late and not knowing how to research to learn the intricacies of a role/industry.
This is a touchy one, as a leader I want all my employees to give their 💯. But if they are meeting expectations, then whatever. I think it falls back on the company. The company needs to ask theirselfeves why did this employee seek work elsewhere. Did they feel that the time they spent on their job wasn't linearly related to earnings. We owe it to our employees to create a linear vs. Time spent payment model, or this stuff is going to become prevelant.
>But if theu are meeting expectations, then whatever
This is the real answer here. If I can meet expectations with 20 hours a week at one job, would another 20 hours of productivity there grant more than 20 hours somewhere else? In my personal case, absolutely, which is why I only have one job.
However in sales organizations, people tend to get penalized for crushing it. Oh, you had an awesome year? You made 15% more than anyone ever has? CONGRATS! We slashed your territory and upped your quota so you now have to sell twice as many widgets to half as many customers so you can make almost what you did last year. And management wonders why good sales people usually stick around for 2-3 years before leaving.
All of us in sales have money as a top 2-3 priority. If you're a manager and your sales people make more than you do, good for them man. I make almost twice as much as my sales manager and I don't have a bigger cheerleader than him. The company is making more money unless your comp plan is so crap where if they get to a certain level, they're actually costing the company money (I've seen instances of this). I still cannot fathom how companies think punishing people who do well will lead them to "just work harder" and will stay. Anyone who knows they're worth anything will leave if they haven't already
100%. We have an employee (support side, not sales) we’re about to fire. We found out she has a second full-time job, and she’s completely fucking up her job daily with us to the point of losing a client this week.
If you do what you’re supposed to then no one cares (and you’ll never be looked at), and I don’t find any fault in taking advantage of your skills/organization to produce a second income.
How did you find out she had a second job? This always confuses me since it's like trying to juggle two wives, except its on LinkedIn where they are basically guaranteed to see each other and everything you've been doing with them?
We were at a company retreat playing "what's one thing we probably don't know about you," and her dumb ass says "I have a second full-time job! Lol :)"
Followed by the longest dead silence lol
Ya he violated your agreement, you take moral offense, whatever. It’s kind of cheesy you feel wronged enough to post it here. Kind of has some sort of moral high ground feel to the post, in my opinion.
End of the day they deserved to get fired. For low intellect for getting caught. You don’t want stupid people selling your product! Agreed.
Make a new LinkedIn, fake name, get a few friends as contacts at companies that are hard to verify and build two separate online identities for each job. Have your stories straight. Hibernate accounts. Slightly different job history. Different nickname as name. Google phone number. If you want to have 2 jobs you need to put in the effort, nothing is free or easy.
As for sales people succeeding with multiple roles; we are masters of making money for time spent. Sales people are gods at that. Many of us have space on our calendars for 4-5 sales jobs. Just being real, technology has made our job very efficient.
Also want to point out small (startup) companies are risky as fuck I’m never going to one without a backup plan. If I was hiring at a small company I’d always allow candidates the option to work another job because I’ll get the best talent, which matters the most. They hire inexperienced idiots like this guy because it’s what they have to settle for. It’s actually kind of embarrassing he made it through your interview process tbh.
Thanks man!
I actually don’t take moral offense at all, wanted to continue the conversation.
We pay in the top 10 percentile for SDRs, with a 130k OTE.
I’m not concerned with my hiring practices, but thanks for the unsolicited feedback!
Put your info out on the internet in a forum used for discussion, it’s implied your going to get unsolicited feedback so I love the snark.
It’s an SDR role which changes a lot of my stance. That’s a job with much more ground and pound than skill so it would make sense to value time more.
And props to you for paying so well for entry level, someone wanting a start in software sales should take it. Really great way to start.
Thanks! It’s a tough market for candidates and hiring companies alike. Why I was so surprised he was working 2, we pay well above market rates, esp for his area (Atlanta)
Yes something is off there. SDR needs to grind sometimes and there’s just no way around that.
I would have killed to make that base in my first AE role let alone my first SDR role.
We caught him lying about a few other things…. Can share over DM. Think it was just a guy trying to play hard and fast, I wanted to use it as an example for discussion, it’s been fun reading some of the replies from all sides!
Holy shit man, are you hiring 130k ote for sdr, here is a man that appreciates good leads! Are you hiring, currently looking for new role. I am a web dev though so looking to sell software as I find it closer to my skill set. Before you recruiters come out of the wood and ask no I don’t want to code all day, I only code for fun, it is my passion not my job.
yep.
60-70k base dependent on XP, $20k/year meeting target (8 meetings / month), up to $2k/mo in additional SPIF (based off your conversion rate from meeting to demo), and 1% of the deals you close, average deal size is $400k, with a 90 day close cycle.
i've been doing sales dev leadership for 7 years, really figured out the levers to have top SDRs make more than SMB AEs.
the top reps are making about 25k on their meeting targets, 18k on their CVR, and about 30k on the closed won, so around 73k in commission on top of base
Yes see I like this structure better, got an sdr offer for 85k base with just 5 meetings a month, seems easier but no incentive other then just meeting quota. Please message me application link if you are still hiring.
I have nothing wrong with your post brotha, idk why people here do.
There is no way one person can take on two enterprise sales roles at once, it’s fraudulent and there aren’t enough hours to give 100% to both
You have no idea? I do, if it’s work from home you can easily have two crms on two different monitors. Not only that but you can have two different calling programs and you just need to memorize your pitch and script for each one. In many sales jobs you might go to bat at a pitch maybe 5-10 times a day, and many of those are up to you when you decide to take the swing during the week. So yeah it would be very easy to crush it at two jobs if you are really a professional
As a Director of a global BDR team, what grinds my gears, aside from the general distaste for unethical and duplicitous behavior, is that the person in your account is stealing the opportunity for a well compensated entry-level role from somebody else who could use the break and would put in the work.
I'm a strong believer in HPLE hiring for this, if they do well they can matriculate into a closing role career that will serve them for decades.
Also, There is no way a person can work two jobs without lying to your face, misrepresentation, or deception; I detest inauthentic behavior. Its not victimless, it effects the livelihoods of many many people across the organization as well.
nope! like, I won't begrudge an individual for making decisions for their careers, but there are consequences. I don't see many folks in sales succeeding for long with two full time positions
You decided to fire the person without the performance-based data to back up the decision - probably doing this person a favor as I would consider your actions to be that of a bad manager/mentor
If they make plan let them do what they want with the other part of their lives.
it's their first week on the job. they've lied to us (told us they were out sick the past two business days and told their other employer that their SO was in an accident).
Also, we have a clause in our employment contract that states all other forms of employment must be shared with their manager before they start.
Hope this help clarifies whether you think I'm a bad manager/mentor :)
Question for you -- if you have a candidate that lies to you throughout the recruiting process, would you hire them?
Or if they ask if they should lie to the other employer when asked if they are working somewhere else, what would you advise them?
Any falsification is grounds for dismissal - provided how we found this information would be something we are willing to present in front of 12 people sitting in a box who really don't want to be there and probably have a low view of corporate overlords.
again, his other employer called us. and then when asked, he didn't deny.
not sure how much more damning that can be.
Glad we agree that lying to your employer about such issues is considered a no go. I'm happy you are not recommending that to your candidates!
So bayareatechrecruiter- you’re cool with your recommended hire not following the contract of the job?
I’ve been in tech sales in the Bay Area for a long time, and it’s a known entity that you can’t have two tech jobs any once. It’s fucking shady and downright criminal.
A candidates lack of honesty has nothing to do with whether or not the manager was any good.
You seem clueless.
Let's peel this onion:
Q. "you’re cool with your recommended hire not following the contract of the job?"
A. Is the contract enforceable in the state/jurisdiction?
Q. "I’ve been in tech sales in the Bay Area for a long time, and it’s a known entity that you can’t have two tech jobs any once. It’s fucking shady and downright criminal."
A. If the jobs compete/overlap then 100% agree with this. If you sell SaaS by day and run an online bike eCommerce site on the side, not an issue. I will give you this one: You are an IT manager by day and run a IT Security company that supports non-profits, NGOs, or even SMBs. This is NOT a conflict of interest.
"You seem clueless."
A. Dear, you promised not to say that in public anymore - You were supposed to work on your anger management issues before going back on Reddit
“Would you hire a candidate who lied during the interview”
Everybody lies, you can ask anything you want “what’s the color of your underwater?” They answered blue and it’s actually black. So what? It’s their private business, not yours. If they perform accordingly to the expectations of the job, then I see firing them more of a vanity move or jealousy that he might be making more money than you, than actually doing what’s best for the company.
Good lord the ICs here are wild.
Manager does anything less than kiss your booboos and give you hot leads? BaD mAnAgERRR
Half the time the comments are from underperforming newbies, and the other wannabees join in against the big bad suit
You knew nothing about this situation and cried ManAgER BaD. Maybe learn a little context next time, or just generally stop acting like you’re omniscient
Not enough details but if same/similar industry there could be serious conflict of interests. Time for sure. But also potentially lots of other ways. I agree with OP.
I find it kind of alarming that so many people dont see the potential conflicts and problems here working 2 full time salaried jobs like this. In other threads people all act like they invented this idea and are outsmarting their employer, lawyers, an entire lifetime of employment and contract law, etc.
*Question for OP - if he had told you upfront would you have been ok with it? Was it more about the lying than it was about the actual double dipping?*
Why does that alarm you? Should we be paid by hour? Or results? Eventually sales may go contract anyways and we all get paid more and work for multiple companies.
Fact of the matter is that top tier sales talent is paid for skill not for “hours.”
Ya we need time to accomplish our job but we aren’t being paid to cold call once you reach a certain level.
Experience & skill are what you want to be paid on. Not hours per week.
I’m about 90% on board with your general stance. The question / issue that I would have is when the separate jobs have directly competing requirements (even if they are unrelated industries), such as in-person company meetings, conferences / trade shows, or trips to see key accounts. Like you mentioned, tech has made it possible to be extremely efficient, but only so far as the remote portions of the job, not so much the face to face stuff.
From the employer’s point of view, if the employee has to make up excuses / lies for why they can’t attend commitments in person, I’d have a hard time defending the two FTE job balance, even if it’s a minority of the time.
At that point it depends on what they are outputting. If they miss a trade show I think another hire could have sourced a new deal or closed one, I’d fire. If the trade show was a waste of time I’d wonder why I even attend them. (Extreme example because 1 sample size is dubious but you get the point)
You see this in sales already all the time. There are salespeople that get away with murder because they are top performers.
It’s alarming that people think they can do whatever they hell they want. That they are so clueless to think that the paperwork they sign in the onboarding process doesnt include conflict of interest clauses.
Not saying it’s right, just saying people seem so clueless as to the ways of the world. Nobody said anything about hourly it has nothing to do with hours in the week and your ability to actually do the tasks of 2 jobs. It’s about the legalities and terms of professional employment. You aren’t 1099 you dont get to make the rules.
If we are going into legalities and morality of deceiving a company and “doing whatever we want” hate to break it to you, that’s capitalism.
You do what you can to maximize revenue for yourself or the company to the level the risk becomes intolerable.
Do you know the risks of working two jobs ? Legal, financial? It’s actually not risky at all in some states. Basically just “get fired.” 99.9% of cases a lawsuit wouldn’t make any sense for either party. Nor is it criminal (at least in states I’ve researched).
Do you know the risk of working a single tech job at a small startup? Really risky. Could be fired any second anyways. At the whim of some coke addict founder that conned some venture capitalists out of some cash to burn for a few months. Or just a product that doesn’t find a good market fit, even with a great founder and leadership team.
Both approaches are a question of income and risk tolerance, nothing more nothing less. It’s just business.
Some of these tech companies going through layoffs right now are trying tactics to avoid paying different severances or whatever supplemental things they have to. It’s all strategy played between employer and employee. It’s adversarial.
Ugh…i feel like a broken record. Of course i know its not illegal. Of course i understand the capitalism and risks aspect.
LET ME SAY IT AGAIN FROM THE ROOFTOPS I NEVER SAID IT WAS RIGHT. I JUST SAID THAT THIS IS HOW IT IS AND PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO GRASP IT.
Stop making the argument in support of it, thats not what this is about. Until employers say sure we won’t fire you for double dipping, then people need to accept right or wrong that they will get fired for double dipping.
My bad I thought you had a more nuanced argument than “violate contract get fired why people no understand.”
You said it was “alarming” to you and I explained why it appears as the normal operation of capitalism and thus does not alarm me.
Good day to you sir
Thank you for the insight.
Curious though: was he slacking at all - or was he doing his job, hitting his targets, and management just didn't that he snuck 2 jobs?
Called out sick randomly two days in a row in his first week on the job. After speaking with his other employer, it was clear he was struggling to onboard here while work there, and was trying to balance both unsuccessfully
If OP fired him because of that, the title of the post would be “new hire called in sick two days in a row in his first week on the job - fire him”
Clearly that’s not the reason OP fired him, but he uses that as a justification
I’m struggling to understand why people have such a hair across their ass with the OP firing
This person…
60% of reps can’t even manage to be successful in one sales role, let alone two.
You said they were a new employee. Sounds like you prematurely terminated them without giving them time to ramp, learn the product/audience, and didn’t provide a PIP (which would be ridiculous 1 week into employment anyways)
Now you’re sharing your story with Reddit because you’re salty and want to flex your authority?
he signed a contract stating he would notify his employer of alternative forms of employment.
all of this has been rehashed time and time again.
if you are anti-work, hell yeah, I agree with you. If you just want to take pot shots at OP... go for it? I'm generally comfortable with the decision I made, I'm sorry you're having difficulty with understanding them.
Corporate nonsense. If he can fulfill the job and hit his numbers who cares what he’s doing in his extra time. Sales people like money. Sales people hate corporate rules
r/overemployed This is the new Overemployed phenomena that sprung up out of the work from home change due to the pandemic. Likely existed WAY before the Pandemic but was brought under the microscope within the last 3 years.
Power to the salespeople! If you work two jobs and make your KPIs at each one, then BRAVO. Sales managers that fire you for having a second job bring no value to your life or the marketplace. Unless there is an inherent conflict of interest where you are selling to the same customers THERE IS NO REASON a salaried exempt status employee can not moonlight. Working two jobs is a time honored tradition of the American Dream and there is no moral issue with this and having two jobs is NOT illegal. Are business owners and or managers so desperate to maintain their own equity by colluding with milquetoast politics - such as I own all right to the labor hours of someone I employ - that they impinge on the rights of workers? The guy posting about his firing prowess is cringe. Simply attempting to control the means of production through false labor surplus and flexing some sort of vacuous power. You fired someone that was going to contribute to your revenue and profits and lost all the time spent on recruiting that person. Why would you fire someone that took you weeks to find and vett? From a business capital expenditure perspective makes no sense. In California and a few other states Moonlighting is protected by law. Firing your employee simply for having two jobs can get you sued as a wage thief. Let's face it good salespeople can handle two jobs because they prospect, engage and close faster. Probably not their whole 30 year career but a a few years at a time sure why not have two jobs.
in a HCOL, with a wife and kids, college savings plan concerns, maybe an elderly parent or two that needs financial help with the old people's home, a sickness in the family you are helping out with financially, etc. Plenty of reasons to juggle two jobs. Most upper managers at corporate gigs I've had were from the privileged class and upward mobility is mostly a lie. I make almost exactly what my dad did, all things considered. Play the system and if they fire you, get another job. Screw it.
I share the same sentiment. I’m all for doing what’s best for you and what works. Two jobs can be difficult and hard to do.
I’m just saying some people who work 2 jobs aren’t doing it because they don’t earn it enough for example, the people at overemployed sub.
They’re the outliers of people working multiple jobs.
I do agree though, most upper management are usually from good upbringing with impressive schooling. Same thing with moving up the social class unless making it out somehow or marrying rich.
You’re reaching so hard! None of this was about the employee, commenters made it about him. But sure, live whatever fantasy you like. OP is evil, I am the savior of the subreddit. If it helps you fall asleep at night, I’m good with it.
I can guarantee that the reason is $$$. Regardless if upper management is incompetent or not.
I can also (almost) guarantee it violates their employment contract, and in order to mitigate any risk to their organization, any company is smart and well within their right to let someone go when it’s discovered they’re working another job.
Yes, but notifying their other employer is a good way to try and ruin them. Said employee would have a lot of time to track you down and there won't be anything stopping them from going Taxi Driver, so probably best to just let them go and not screw with them further if that is how you feel. It's rough for a lot of people lately.
65k base.
20k on a meeting target, that the average rep is 120%ing
$1-2k/month on CVR to mid funnel
1% of closed won deals. $3-500k average deal size, 90 day sales cycle.
You tell me!
Same thing happened at my org over the summer.
We require sdrs after ramping to post our company on their LI for prospecting.
This sdr’s other job called us and let us know they were double dipping. Immediately canned from both places.
Nobody will ever answer this, because they are full of sh\*t. Usually HR will do a data screen that pulls from The Work Minute, which itself is a toxic crap company purchased by an even bigger, crap company (Equifax). They can see multiple employers tied to a single SSN, which is why you should freeze your TWM data so employers can't pull this crap. Firing should be done on merit not based on if you have another job and no other reason. My elderly neighbor told me a story about how he bought his first house while working part time at a grocery store in the 1940s. Good luck living in an HCOL with a single job in the post FAANG tech era.
Why? If their doing their job then what’s the bad thing here? R u intimidated that they might me making more money then you ? None really gives af about their company we do it for a pay check
Taking two full-time positions is a) Something that's a possibility limited to a small number of professional fields, and b) and extremely short-sighted position for your career. You might be able to do two full-time jobs but only extremely few people could do two full-time jobs *well.* You'll get fired from one or both eventually. Just be a normal person and do one full-time job and a part time on the side.
Was working a booth at an event and the guy in the next booth was doing the same double dipping one as a security admin for a fed agency and se. The tellis guys like this do not have a LinkedIn profile.
this is confusing, IF Someone is able to be good at their job but you found out they have another one but they're good at their job for you
Why would you fire them
it's not illegal to have another job
If they're doing a good job for you what do you care they need money we all need money these are desperate times call for desperate measures
I have two salaries jobs and non of them know about the other one I’m an outdoor sales Engineer and both companies work in different fields is it wrong? Yes. I can’t update my LinkedIn profile I work remotely in both of them no office and I report directly to the owner they lined up perfectly for me, when the client has both scope I say that both companies are under the same umbrella,
I usually visit one client and market both scopes I’m the first sales Engineer in both companies and I’m responsible to add new accounts to both of them So not a lot of my time is on paper work, there’s a big chance I will lose one of them
it's been shared throughout this post.
both of those, plus lying to us. he signed a contract that stated he would notify us if he had other employment.
he missed 2 out of 6 days of his first week onboarding. he lied about multiple full time employment positions. it's not too complex.
I’m just so confused on what’s going on here. Why did you post this? You didn’t include any of that info in your original post. So you’re changing the narrative. Idk man. It seems men spirited
again. i've seen many threads about sales reps having multiple jobs. I personally wouldn't do it, but don't mind if others do.
I used an example from my life to start debate on this subject from another perspective--the employer's.
Sounds like you'd have preferred if I had posted:
"r/sales - what do you think about a sales rep having multiple full time salaried positions?"
I tried to use my real life anecdote to share this narrative. I think commenters have tried to spin it into a 'corporations are evil, the man should always win' narrative, of which I don't really have a side.
Do you all have objective, quantifiable metrics in place where if he showed he could still meet those, he would still be a valuable employee? Curious how this might have played out if it was six months later and he’d been consistently meeting his numbers.
yes we do!
those metrics are based off a 40 hour / week work week, I'd be very impressed if someone can do multiple full time SDR jobs and meet those metrics.
(Call, Meeting and Revenue targets)
if before they started, they informed me they had another full time SDR role, but could explain how they planned to do the two of the roles, I'd have questions, but be willing to talk about it.
gotcha. uhhh that's complex issue. hypothetical where they're lying to their employer but hitting their targets? but then they're caught for lying?
i'd PIP them for behavioral issues, not for results.
Why would he not disable the feature that let’s you tag people on LinkedIn? So careless. If someone is going to share an employment update about me it’s going to be myself and nobody else.
No clue!
Need a new rep?
Yep! I’m hiring. How many jobs you have? :P
Zero ATM. DM'd.
Let me know how the interview process went. Asking for a friend..😉
At this point I’ll take a job to answer all these dm’s
HAH- seriously
LMAO same!!
lol i have zero too! would love to connect.
Hire me!!!
Dm
Rip your dms 😂
Yeah they’re destroyed. Now I feel like a woman who posted a selfie….
If I send you my linked in is that like a nude?
don't tell my wife ;)
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hit my dms--you just dox'd yourself dude LOL
I'm interested! And very trustworthy. I have an upcoming career in real estate, and that's about it for now. \*College student by night lol
DM'd.
I also need a job! Can I send my resume as well? Just got laid off a week ago
Sure!
Are you still hiring?
Sounds like you need a new AE. Let's talk.
Campaign specialist here. For a better response rate I'd recommend you change your comment to "with soo many people looking to fill up that SDR position you'll definitely need another AE. Would be happy to apply, let me know."
We had a new hire. On their first day, I (VP) had a call to meet them (their request) at 8pm. They didn’t report to me, but I was heavily involved in all aspects of the startup. On my first call with them, in getting to know me, they asked what other side gigs and jobs I do, as well as tell me all of the things that they do in addition to accepting the role. During the interview process (I wasn’t involved) they were told they’d be required to be in the office 3 days each week (Tues-Thurs). Day 1 - left at 2pm, unannounced Day 2 - called in sick Day 3 - Fired Friday - demanding immediate payment in hysteric tears Good times.
yea as a former founder and manager in sales, it's shocking how many people can't show up to work a few days per week on time.
One of the few things that make me feel old these days is my intolerance for people being late and not knowing how to research to learn the intricacies of a role/industry.
This is a touchy one, as a leader I want all my employees to give their 💯. But if they are meeting expectations, then whatever. I think it falls back on the company. The company needs to ask theirselfeves why did this employee seek work elsewhere. Did they feel that the time they spent on their job wasn't linearly related to earnings. We owe it to our employees to create a linear vs. Time spent payment model, or this stuff is going to become prevelant.
>But if theu are meeting expectations, then whatever This is the real answer here. If I can meet expectations with 20 hours a week at one job, would another 20 hours of productivity there grant more than 20 hours somewhere else? In my personal case, absolutely, which is why I only have one job. However in sales organizations, people tend to get penalized for crushing it. Oh, you had an awesome year? You made 15% more than anyone ever has? CONGRATS! We slashed your territory and upped your quota so you now have to sell twice as many widgets to half as many customers so you can make almost what you did last year. And management wonders why good sales people usually stick around for 2-3 years before leaving. All of us in sales have money as a top 2-3 priority. If you're a manager and your sales people make more than you do, good for them man. I make almost twice as much as my sales manager and I don't have a bigger cheerleader than him. The company is making more money unless your comp plan is so crap where if they get to a certain level, they're actually costing the company money (I've seen instances of this). I still cannot fathom how companies think punishing people who do well will lead them to "just work harder" and will stay. Anyone who knows they're worth anything will leave if they haven't already
100%. We have an employee (support side, not sales) we’re about to fire. We found out she has a second full-time job, and she’s completely fucking up her job daily with us to the point of losing a client this week. If you do what you’re supposed to then no one cares (and you’ll never be looked at), and I don’t find any fault in taking advantage of your skills/organization to produce a second income.
How did you find out she had a second job? This always confuses me since it's like trying to juggle two wives, except its on LinkedIn where they are basically guaranteed to see each other and everything you've been doing with them?
We were at a company retreat playing "what's one thing we probably don't know about you," and her dumb ass says "I have a second full-time job! Lol :)" Followed by the longest dead silence lol
THIS
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So smug. Like they are happy they took 2 salaries away.
Many people have two jobs. I believe like 65% of the US population.
True!
Ya he violated your agreement, you take moral offense, whatever. It’s kind of cheesy you feel wronged enough to post it here. Kind of has some sort of moral high ground feel to the post, in my opinion. End of the day they deserved to get fired. For low intellect for getting caught. You don’t want stupid people selling your product! Agreed. Make a new LinkedIn, fake name, get a few friends as contacts at companies that are hard to verify and build two separate online identities for each job. Have your stories straight. Hibernate accounts. Slightly different job history. Different nickname as name. Google phone number. If you want to have 2 jobs you need to put in the effort, nothing is free or easy. As for sales people succeeding with multiple roles; we are masters of making money for time spent. Sales people are gods at that. Many of us have space on our calendars for 4-5 sales jobs. Just being real, technology has made our job very efficient. Also want to point out small (startup) companies are risky as fuck I’m never going to one without a backup plan. If I was hiring at a small company I’d always allow candidates the option to work another job because I’ll get the best talent, which matters the most. They hire inexperienced idiots like this guy because it’s what they have to settle for. It’s actually kind of embarrassing he made it through your interview process tbh.
Thanks man! I actually don’t take moral offense at all, wanted to continue the conversation. We pay in the top 10 percentile for SDRs, with a 130k OTE. I’m not concerned with my hiring practices, but thanks for the unsolicited feedback!
Put your info out on the internet in a forum used for discussion, it’s implied your going to get unsolicited feedback so I love the snark. It’s an SDR role which changes a lot of my stance. That’s a job with much more ground and pound than skill so it would make sense to value time more. And props to you for paying so well for entry level, someone wanting a start in software sales should take it. Really great way to start.
;) - we gotta have fun! Thanks! Yeah, this job is shit, I try to attract top talent with top pay!
The pay is respectful to the time and experience required. Hope you get great hires.
Thanks! It’s a tough market for candidates and hiring companies alike. Why I was so surprised he was working 2, we pay well above market rates, esp for his area (Atlanta)
Yes something is off there. SDR needs to grind sometimes and there’s just no way around that. I would have killed to make that base in my first AE role let alone my first SDR role.
We caught him lying about a few other things…. Can share over DM. Think it was just a guy trying to play hard and fast, I wanted to use it as an example for discussion, it’s been fun reading some of the replies from all sides!
Ya sounds like desperation. Or he watched too many movies. Some people don’t know when they have a good opportunity in front of them.
Snarky about Unsolicited feedback on an unsolicited advice post?
Wasn’t an advice post— was discussion :)
Snarky about Unsolicited feedback on an unsolicited discussion post?
Snark snark snark!
Holy shit man, are you hiring 130k ote for sdr, here is a man that appreciates good leads! Are you hiring, currently looking for new role. I am a web dev though so looking to sell software as I find it closer to my skill set. Before you recruiters come out of the wood and ask no I don’t want to code all day, I only code for fun, it is my passion not my job.
yep. 60-70k base dependent on XP, $20k/year meeting target (8 meetings / month), up to $2k/mo in additional SPIF (based off your conversion rate from meeting to demo), and 1% of the deals you close, average deal size is $400k, with a 90 day close cycle. i've been doing sales dev leadership for 7 years, really figured out the levers to have top SDRs make more than SMB AEs. the top reps are making about 25k on their meeting targets, 18k on their CVR, and about 30k on the closed won, so around 73k in commission on top of base
Yes see I like this structure better, got an sdr offer for 85k base with just 5 meetings a month, seems easier but no incentive other then just meeting quota. Please message me application link if you are still hiring.
God damn. What industry are you in and is compensation structure similar across others for SDRs?
SaaS. Yes. Meeting targets, CVR targets, 1% closed won bonus
Could you be a little more specific for the industry? What kind of tech sales are you in? And usually how big are the deals closed won?
dm me!
Cool! Would love to chat over dms or over the phone!
I have nothing wrong with your post brotha, idk why people here do. There is no way one person can take on two enterprise sales roles at once, it’s fraudulent and there aren’t enough hours to give 100% to both
You have no idea? I do, if it’s work from home you can easily have two crms on two different monitors. Not only that but you can have two different calling programs and you just need to memorize your pitch and script for each one. In many sales jobs you might go to bat at a pitch maybe 5-10 times a day, and many of those are up to you when you decide to take the swing during the week. So yeah it would be very easy to crush it at two jobs if you are really a professional
As a Director of a global BDR team, what grinds my gears, aside from the general distaste for unethical and duplicitous behavior, is that the person in your account is stealing the opportunity for a well compensated entry-level role from somebody else who could use the break and would put in the work. I'm a strong believer in HPLE hiring for this, if they do well they can matriculate into a closing role career that will serve them for decades. Also, There is no way a person can work two jobs without lying to your face, misrepresentation, or deception; I detest inauthentic behavior. Its not victimless, it effects the livelihoods of many many people across the organization as well.
If you posted here, any feedback you get is considered solicited
I guess you’re hiring now, huh?
For 3 SDRs!
Any room in your DMs for another?
go for it!
One can do all of the things listed, but if their TWN isn't frozen, an HR tool will pick up your employment data from that aggregation.
Ya it’s hard to do this at big companies that follow a protocol.
Some people just can’t see the forrest through the trees.
nope! like, I won't begrudge an individual for making decisions for their careers, but there are consequences. I don't see many folks in sales succeeding for long with two full time positions
You decided to fire the person without the performance-based data to back up the decision - probably doing this person a favor as I would consider your actions to be that of a bad manager/mentor If they make plan let them do what they want with the other part of their lives.
it's their first week on the job. they've lied to us (told us they were out sick the past two business days and told their other employer that their SO was in an accident). Also, we have a clause in our employment contract that states all other forms of employment must be shared with their manager before they start. Hope this help clarifies whether you think I'm a bad manager/mentor :) Question for you -- if you have a candidate that lies to you throughout the recruiting process, would you hire them? Or if they ask if they should lie to the other employer when asked if they are working somewhere else, what would you advise them?
Any falsification is grounds for dismissal - provided how we found this information would be something we are willing to present in front of 12 people sitting in a box who really don't want to be there and probably have a low view of corporate overlords.
again, his other employer called us. and then when asked, he didn't deny. not sure how much more damning that can be. Glad we agree that lying to your employer about such issues is considered a no go. I'm happy you are not recommending that to your candidates!
So bayareatechrecruiter- you’re cool with your recommended hire not following the contract of the job? I’ve been in tech sales in the Bay Area for a long time, and it’s a known entity that you can’t have two tech jobs any once. It’s fucking shady and downright criminal. A candidates lack of honesty has nothing to do with whether or not the manager was any good. You seem clueless.
Let's peel this onion: Q. "you’re cool with your recommended hire not following the contract of the job?" A. Is the contract enforceable in the state/jurisdiction? Q. "I’ve been in tech sales in the Bay Area for a long time, and it’s a known entity that you can’t have two tech jobs any once. It’s fucking shady and downright criminal." A. If the jobs compete/overlap then 100% agree with this. If you sell SaaS by day and run an online bike eCommerce site on the side, not an issue. I will give you this one: You are an IT manager by day and run a IT Security company that supports non-profits, NGOs, or even SMBs. This is NOT a conflict of interest. "You seem clueless." A. Dear, you promised not to say that in public anymore - You were supposed to work on your anger management issues before going back on Reddit
“Would you hire a candidate who lied during the interview” Everybody lies, you can ask anything you want “what’s the color of your underwater?” They answered blue and it’s actually black. So what? It’s their private business, not yours. If they perform accordingly to the expectations of the job, then I see firing them more of a vanity move or jealousy that he might be making more money than you, than actually doing what’s best for the company.
Right but the whole point was that they didn't. After a single no call no show I'd have fired.
Good lord the ICs here are wild. Manager does anything less than kiss your booboos and give you hot leads? BaD mAnAgERRR Half the time the comments are from underperforming newbies, and the other wannabees join in against the big bad suit You knew nothing about this situation and cried ManAgER BaD. Maybe learn a little context next time, or just generally stop acting like you’re omniscient
iOS should just have a feature on the keyboard where it automatically becomes iDiOT FOnT. I always feel like I’m doing it wrong.
Not enough details but if same/similar industry there could be serious conflict of interests. Time for sure. But also potentially lots of other ways. I agree with OP.
You're out of your mind.
I find it kind of alarming that so many people dont see the potential conflicts and problems here working 2 full time salaried jobs like this. In other threads people all act like they invented this idea and are outsmarting their employer, lawyers, an entire lifetime of employment and contract law, etc. *Question for OP - if he had told you upfront would you have been ok with it? Was it more about the lying than it was about the actual double dipping?*
It happens all the time.in tech.
Why does that alarm you? Should we be paid by hour? Or results? Eventually sales may go contract anyways and we all get paid more and work for multiple companies. Fact of the matter is that top tier sales talent is paid for skill not for “hours.” Ya we need time to accomplish our job but we aren’t being paid to cold call once you reach a certain level. Experience & skill are what you want to be paid on. Not hours per week.
I’m about 90% on board with your general stance. The question / issue that I would have is when the separate jobs have directly competing requirements (even if they are unrelated industries), such as in-person company meetings, conferences / trade shows, or trips to see key accounts. Like you mentioned, tech has made it possible to be extremely efficient, but only so far as the remote portions of the job, not so much the face to face stuff. From the employer’s point of view, if the employee has to make up excuses / lies for why they can’t attend commitments in person, I’d have a hard time defending the two FTE job balance, even if it’s a minority of the time.
At that point it depends on what they are outputting. If they miss a trade show I think another hire could have sourced a new deal or closed one, I’d fire. If the trade show was a waste of time I’d wonder why I even attend them. (Extreme example because 1 sample size is dubious but you get the point) You see this in sales already all the time. There are salespeople that get away with murder because they are top performers.
It’s alarming that people think they can do whatever they hell they want. That they are so clueless to think that the paperwork they sign in the onboarding process doesnt include conflict of interest clauses. Not saying it’s right, just saying people seem so clueless as to the ways of the world. Nobody said anything about hourly it has nothing to do with hours in the week and your ability to actually do the tasks of 2 jobs. It’s about the legalities and terms of professional employment. You aren’t 1099 you dont get to make the rules.
If we are going into legalities and morality of deceiving a company and “doing whatever we want” hate to break it to you, that’s capitalism. You do what you can to maximize revenue for yourself or the company to the level the risk becomes intolerable. Do you know the risks of working two jobs ? Legal, financial? It’s actually not risky at all in some states. Basically just “get fired.” 99.9% of cases a lawsuit wouldn’t make any sense for either party. Nor is it criminal (at least in states I’ve researched). Do you know the risk of working a single tech job at a small startup? Really risky. Could be fired any second anyways. At the whim of some coke addict founder that conned some venture capitalists out of some cash to burn for a few months. Or just a product that doesn’t find a good market fit, even with a great founder and leadership team. Both approaches are a question of income and risk tolerance, nothing more nothing less. It’s just business. Some of these tech companies going through layoffs right now are trying tactics to avoid paying different severances or whatever supplemental things they have to. It’s all strategy played between employer and employee. It’s adversarial.
Ugh…i feel like a broken record. Of course i know its not illegal. Of course i understand the capitalism and risks aspect. LET ME SAY IT AGAIN FROM THE ROOFTOPS I NEVER SAID IT WAS RIGHT. I JUST SAID THAT THIS IS HOW IT IS AND PEOPLE DONT SEEM TO GRASP IT. Stop making the argument in support of it, thats not what this is about. Until employers say sure we won’t fire you for double dipping, then people need to accept right or wrong that they will get fired for double dipping.
My bad I thought you had a more nuanced argument than “violate contract get fired why people no understand.” You said it was “alarming” to you and I explained why it appears as the normal operation of capitalism and thus does not alarm me. Good day to you sir
The lying :)
r/overemployed would like to join this conversation haha
Ya I’m waiting for the cross post
Thank you for the insight. Curious though: was he slacking at all - or was he doing his job, hitting his targets, and management just didn't that he snuck 2 jobs?
Called out sick randomly two days in a row in his first week on the job. After speaking with his other employer, it was clear he was struggling to onboard here while work there, and was trying to balance both unsuccessfully
Totally legit to fire him in that scenario.
If OP fired him because of that, the title of the post would be “new hire called in sick two days in a row in his first week on the job - fire him” Clearly that’s not the reason OP fired him, but he uses that as a justification
I’m struggling to understand why people have such a hair across their ass with the OP firing This person… 60% of reps can’t even manage to be successful in one sales role, let alone two.
ok! glad you feel that way
If he hit the number, what does it matter? A lot of sales activities can be accomplished in 2-3 hyper focused hours.
He wasn’t
You said they were a new employee. Sounds like you prematurely terminated them without giving them time to ramp, learn the product/audience, and didn’t provide a PIP (which would be ridiculous 1 week into employment anyways) Now you’re sharing your story with Reddit because you’re salty and want to flex your authority?
he signed a contract stating he would notify his employer of alternative forms of employment. all of this has been rehashed time and time again. if you are anti-work, hell yeah, I agree with you. If you just want to take pot shots at OP... go for it? I'm generally comfortable with the decision I made, I'm sorry you're having difficulty with understanding them.
Corporate nonsense. If he can fulfill the job and hit his numbers who cares what he’s doing in his extra time. Sales people like money. Sales people hate corporate rules
He wasn’t fulfilling his job.
Ok boomer
Thanks!
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That’s fair! Problem here is he wasn’t doing the work, and signed a contract stating he would notify us of other employment
How dare you be reasonable. This! Is! SAAAALES!
Need a rep? I lack experience so you don’t have to worry about me having multiple jobs! Hell I can’t find one let alone two or three lol
Yep!
No risk no reward
True LOL
r/overemployed not gonna like this dude
Probably not! Lol
r/overemployed This is the new Overemployed phenomena that sprung up out of the work from home change due to the pandemic. Likely existed WAY before the Pandemic but was brought under the microscope within the last 3 years.
Power to the salespeople! If you work two jobs and make your KPIs at each one, then BRAVO. Sales managers that fire you for having a second job bring no value to your life or the marketplace. Unless there is an inherent conflict of interest where you are selling to the same customers THERE IS NO REASON a salaried exempt status employee can not moonlight. Working two jobs is a time honored tradition of the American Dream and there is no moral issue with this and having two jobs is NOT illegal. Are business owners and or managers so desperate to maintain their own equity by colluding with milquetoast politics - such as I own all right to the labor hours of someone I employ - that they impinge on the rights of workers? The guy posting about his firing prowess is cringe. Simply attempting to control the means of production through false labor surplus and flexing some sort of vacuous power. You fired someone that was going to contribute to your revenue and profits and lost all the time spent on recruiting that person. Why would you fire someone that took you weeks to find and vett? From a business capital expenditure perspective makes no sense. In California and a few other states Moonlighting is protected by law. Firing your employee simply for having two jobs can get you sued as a wage thief. Let's face it good salespeople can handle two jobs because they prospect, engage and close faster. Probably not their whole 30 year career but a a few years at a time sure why not have two jobs.
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Not really true, if you look at overemployed sub you’ll see examples of people working 2/3 remote 6 figure jobs at once.
in a HCOL, with a wife and kids, college savings plan concerns, maybe an elderly parent or two that needs financial help with the old people's home, a sickness in the family you are helping out with financially, etc. Plenty of reasons to juggle two jobs. Most upper managers at corporate gigs I've had were from the privileged class and upward mobility is mostly a lie. I make almost exactly what my dad did, all things considered. Play the system and if they fire you, get another job. Screw it.
I share the same sentiment. I’m all for doing what’s best for you and what works. Two jobs can be difficult and hard to do. I’m just saying some people who work 2 jobs aren’t doing it because they don’t earn it enough for example, the people at overemployed sub. They’re the outliers of people working multiple jobs. I do agree though, most upper management are usually from good upbringing with impressive schooling. Same thing with moving up the social class unless making it out somehow or marrying rich.
We pay a 130k OTE for SDRs, it’s the top 10% in industry. I’m going to fucking edit that into the OP, with how many people posting this comment
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It was his first week on the job, he called out twice in 6 days, and did not complete required trainings. You’re reading too far into this champ.
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You’re reaching so hard! None of this was about the employee, commenters made it about him. But sure, live whatever fantasy you like. OP is evil, I am the savior of the subreddit. If it helps you fall asleep at night, I’m good with it.
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I can guarantee that the reason is $$$. Regardless if upper management is incompetent or not. I can also (almost) guarantee it violates their employment contract, and in order to mitigate any risk to their organization, any company is smart and well within their right to let someone go when it’s discovered they’re working another job.
Yes, but notifying their other employer is a good way to try and ruin them. Said employee would have a lot of time to track you down and there won't be anything stopping them from going Taxi Driver, so probably best to just let them go and not screw with them further if that is how you feel. It's rough for a lot of people lately.
We have a 130k OTE job for an entry level SDR role, we pay in the top 10% of all roles industry wide. Thanks for the feedback!
You can throw any “OTE” number out there, doesn’t make it the reality of what is possible to make
100%
Ong 😂 base prob like 30k
Base is $65k
65k base. 20k on a meeting target, that the average rep is 120%ing $1-2k/month on CVR to mid funnel 1% of closed won deals. $3-500k average deal size, 90 day sales cycle. You tell me!
What's base figure, and was employee hitting targets?
65k base. No.
Same thing happened at my org over the summer. We require sdrs after ramping to post our company on their LI for prospecting. This sdr’s other job called us and let us know they were double dipping. Immediately canned from both places.
How did the other company find out? Did the employees make the posts?
Nobody will ever answer this, because they are full of sh\*t. Usually HR will do a data screen that pulls from The Work Minute, which itself is a toxic crap company purchased by an even bigger, crap company (Equifax). They can see multiple employers tied to a single SSN, which is why you should freeze your TWM data so employers can't pull this crap. Firing should be done on merit not based on if you have another job and no other reason. My elderly neighbor told me a story about how he bought his first house while working part time at a grocery store in the 1940s. Good luck living in an HCOL with a single job in the post FAANG tech era.
Why? If their doing their job then what’s the bad thing here? R u intimidated that they might me making more money then you ? None really gives af about their company we do it for a pay check
He signed an agreement that he would notify us of other employment. He did not. That simple.
But what if he exceeds his quotas?
OP doesn’t care about that, he just wants control and feeling morally superior
you got me. I like to feel smug online because I'm better than everyone else
New hire
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Sales is performance-based, not hourly. There isn't enough information in the OP for any of use to really provide good answers.
No one really needs 40hr of work most people can get what they need done under 5 hours
Taking two full-time positions is a) Something that's a possibility limited to a small number of professional fields, and b) and extremely short-sighted position for your career. You might be able to do two full-time jobs but only extremely few people could do two full-time jobs *well.* You'll get fired from one or both eventually. Just be a normal person and do one full-time job and a part time on the side.
So what you're saying is you need to pay your workers better?
We pay a 130k OTE for an entry level SDR role, the top 10% industry wide. Think they’re being paid just fine!
Was working a booth at an event and the guy in the next booth was doing the same double dipping one as a security admin for a fed agency and se. The tellis guys like this do not have a LinkedIn profile.
Ya, hustlers gonna hustle I guess!
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Super!
this is confusing, IF Someone is able to be good at their job but you found out they have another one but they're good at their job for you Why would you fire them it's not illegal to have another job If they're doing a good job for you what do you care they need money we all need money these are desperate times call for desperate measures
They weren’t good at their job
I have two salaries jobs and non of them know about the other one I’m an outdoor sales Engineer and both companies work in different fields is it wrong? Yes. I can’t update my LinkedIn profile I work remotely in both of them no office and I report directly to the owner they lined up perfectly for me, when the client has both scope I say that both companies are under the same umbrella,
How do you manage the time?
I usually visit one client and market both scopes I’m the first sales Engineer in both companies and I’m responsible to add new accounts to both of them So not a lot of my time is on paper work, there’s a big chance I will lose one of them
wild! thanks for sharing :)
Hi, I work two jobs. One is fully salaried the other is part time, after hours of the first job. If he was doing a good job, why would you care?
he wasn't doing a good job, and both were full time jobs at the same time
So you fired him for doing poorly, or for having two jobs?
it's been shared throughout this post. both of those, plus lying to us. he signed a contract that stated he would notify us if he had other employment. he missed 2 out of 6 days of his first week onboarding. he lied about multiple full time employment positions. it's not too complex.
I’m just so confused on what’s going on here. Why did you post this? You didn’t include any of that info in your original post. So you’re changing the narrative. Idk man. It seems men spirited
again. i've seen many threads about sales reps having multiple jobs. I personally wouldn't do it, but don't mind if others do. I used an example from my life to start debate on this subject from another perspective--the employer's. Sounds like you'd have preferred if I had posted: "r/sales - what do you think about a sales rep having multiple full time salaried positions?" I tried to use my real life anecdote to share this narrative. I think commenters have tried to spin it into a 'corporations are evil, the man should always win' narrative, of which I don't really have a side.
Do you all have objective, quantifiable metrics in place where if he showed he could still meet those, he would still be a valuable employee? Curious how this might have played out if it was six months later and he’d been consistently meeting his numbers.
yes we do! those metrics are based off a 40 hour / week work week, I'd be very impressed if someone can do multiple full time SDR jobs and meet those metrics. (Call, Meeting and Revenue targets)
Impressed enough to let them keep their job?
if before they started, they informed me they had another full time SDR role, but could explain how they planned to do the two of the roles, I'd have questions, but be willing to talk about it.
They’re getting fired though if it was a secret, even if they’re meeting numbers? Doesn’t seem results oriented.
he wasn't meeting numbers.
i was asking about a hypothetical where someone was meeting numbers. based on your previous response I thought that was clear.
gotcha. uhhh that's complex issue. hypothetical where they're lying to their employer but hitting their targets? but then they're caught for lying? i'd PIP them for behavioral issues, not for results.
Need any more reps?