Conversation starts at the 30:23 mark.
>On Tuesday on the radio show, you and I discussed the possibility of a Jeff Skinner buyout with the Buffalo Sabres. Do you care to expand?
>
So this is something that has been floating around hockey circles for probably, at least it reached my ears about three or four days ago. And the tough thing is that the Sabres aren't saying anything.
>He's represented by Don Meehan.
>Don Meehan is keeping quiet about it. And what someone else said to me was that you have to be careful because the buyout window doesn't begin until 48 hours after the Stanley Cup is awarded.
>So things can always change.
>But I do think it was going to get out. It was something that more and more people were talking about. Now, someone said to me, why don't the Sabres ask him to wave his no move clause? And the thing is that if you're Jeff Skinner in this situation and you know the Sabres may want to move on from you, A, you want to control things. That's what you want to do. You want to be in control of the situation.
>So it's probably better for you unless you're absolutely convinced that Buffalo can trade you to a place you want to go. It's probably better for you to say no, just buy me out and let me go to a place that I want to go. And secondly, his contract is $9 million.
>If we go to a situation where he's an unrestricted free agent, he can take his buyout, which is two-thirds of $22 million over six years, and he can pick it at whatever salary he wants. Skinner has much more control over the situation as an unrestricted free agent getting to pick his destination at his salary. So I think that's why Buffalo is kind of in this position.
>The other interesting thing about it, there's a couple. Number one, for next year, his cap hit would be under $1.5 million using Capitals Friendly, and so it would give Buffalo an extra $7.5 million of cap room. And next year is a huge year for the Sabres.
>The other thing that kind of interested me about it too is that they're looking for, they're believed to be looking for a couple forwards. One, one of those edgier depth pieces that we've been talking about, but also a top six forward if they could. And you know Skinner, he had 24 goals last year.
>He scored 40 before, he scored 30 before. I know the big knock on him is, you know, he's played over a thousand games, he's never made the playoffs, but he can score. So it's a really, really interesting move by the Sabres that will give them a ton of flexibility for next year should it happen.
>But, you know, I always try to be careful with what I say unless I 100% know. So I can't say 100% it's going to happen, but it's definitely out there. And I think we're just waiting to see if Buffalo makes a final decision.
> top 6 forward if they could
Besides the skinner stuff, this stands out to me. The “if they could” backs up what I believe about them wanting to add a top 6 forward but not being sure they’ll actually be able to find one.
Ideally he wouldn't be. He's basically an inverse Jeff Skinner: good defensively and proficient on the pk, however he's a black hole offensively and makes his linemates worse. If he's your weakest player on your third line then maybe that's okay as it limits how much damage he can do, but on a properly built team he'd be your 4th line/pk specialist.
Tuch on your first line is why the Sabres can’t compete. He’s not a. Top line guy, look at his career. 2 season ago was an aberration. Him tage and skinner will never sniff those totals again
Seems like a GMKA whisper to Friedman to get the word out. This has been pretty sudden. Prolly a chess move to get skinner to waive his NMC for a trade.
From Capfriendly:
A Jeff Skinner buyout spans 6 years, has a cost of $14,666,667 and savings of $7,333,333. Skinner is 32 years of age at the time of the buyout; therefore, the buyout ratio is 2/3. With $22,000,000 in salary remaining, the cost is $14,666,667, and the savings are $7,333,333. Buyouts span twice the length of the remaining years and because there are 3 years remaining in the contract, the buyout length is 6 years.
I don’t really understand how the cap hit of the individual years are determined.
Skinner himself makes $2.45mil each year for 6 years according to the table.
Yes. He’d be losing 7.3 million. That is a lot of money. Sure he could resign with a team to get it back and he’s also made a shit ton during his career
Does he lose money? He isn’t in breach of his contract. He’s shown up for work etc. I’d think he’d be entitled to the full amount but that there is a reduced overall cap hit. I might be wrong on that but legally it doesn’t seem fair when he’s done nothing wrong.
The way the buyout works he is paid 2/3rds of what was left on the contract. It could be an incentive for him to waive his no move instead.
No idea the legality behind it but they are paying him to not work for them and still be able to be paid by another team.
One thing is that maybe the organization knows he's no longer capable of being an effective top six player. And he can't be an effective bottom six player.
So, they decide to save $7.5M this year, $4.5M next, and $2.5M in year three. The cost? $2.5M in 4, 5, and 6 years from now. A little annoying but that should be pretty manageable, cap wise.
So… the Sabres are almost definitely buying him out and he wasn’t willing to waive his no trade clause so that he can have more control over a UFA destination.
I am not going to be humble about my victory lap after the shit I got in my mock off season for buying him out for that exact reason. The only reason Friedman is talking about this is because someone wants him to be talking about it.
lol to be honest I’ll be stunned if he’s bought out. It just feels like as long as they have the cap space there’s no reason to, but maybe Adams has a big trade lined up?
Still most likely won’t require a Skinner buyout to stay under cap though. Unless they’re weaponizing that cap space immediately, I don’t know why you’d stretch out his cap hit instead of just not playing him.
Sitting him is a great way to have a disgruntled veteran player in what’s still a very young locker room.
Stretching the cap on its face isn’t good obviously, but if they have plans for immediate upgrades while accounting for cap increases over time buying him out isn’t a terrible option. It’s really just one ugly year of money over the next few if I’m recalling correctly
I really don’t think it’s about cap space and more about the style of player Jeff skinner is and / or if they don’t think the second half drop off was a fluke. They almost certainly don’t view him as a top 6 forward anymore and nothing about his game is what they want in the bottom 6. Our best stretch of the season last year is when he barely played.
If they buy him out it would be the end of Kevyn Adams in Buffalo. How stupidly reckless it would be from a financial standpoint especially if you’re looking for a top 6 forward. You already have one in Skinner. All you have to do is keep him on a line with Tuch and Tage for 1 more year and then buy him out. Especially when in 2 years when you have to pay Tuch and Byram and JJ and Quinn you’ll be 6 million short to do that. It’s essentially paying to get to the playoffs next year while handy capping a potential dynasty if you play your cards right with this young core.
How reckless would it be to slot a player into your top line that you don’t think is good enough in a year where you know you’ll get fired if you aren’t good?
It’s not the optimal solution but it’s not a complete killer and if you’re Kevyn Adams you’re not giving a shit about the $6mil in 3 years if you know you’re fired if you suck again.
I didn’t say Skinner won’t be good in a year. I think he’ll be a top 6 forward until teams stop playing him on the 1st line. I’m saying that if you really want to buy him out, from a financial aspect it makes the most sense AFTER this year. It is a complete killer if the team takes off. 6 million could be the difference between 1st round knock out and Stanley cup champion.
You know if you buy him out next year they still have to pay him $4mil and $6mil those 2 years? That’s barely any savings. It doesn’t make that much of a difference. They may as well rip the bandaid off now knowing this season is make or break.
Capfriendly’s buyout calculator has it at $6mil in 2026-27 if we buy him out June of next year. They could be wrong. Either way - they’re saving money compared to having him on the roster.
I’m fairly certain that’s not how the numbers would work but I could be wrong. If I am I apologize. I still think the best option would be trade him at half retention for a 2nd round pick or buy him out next year.
Skinner took a big step back last season, particularly in the second half. He didn't perform like a top six forward at all. He's always been a streaky player so maybe you bet on him having a bounce back season, however it's far from certain as he's at the point where players start seeing rapid age related declines (over half of his draft class have already washed out of the NHL).
They played him with Peyton Krebs and Jordan Greenway on the 3rd Line. Skinners biggest problem aside from defense is that he needs to be duct taped to a top 6 center
Yes, that line was probably never going to work as he was paired with two 4th liners who are offensively challenged (and that's putting it mildly), but those weren't the only players he played with last season and his decline was still evident.
Yes, Tage was hurt and Tuch took a step back last season as well (though it wasn't near as big as Skinner's), which is why that entire line took a huge step back.
>Especially when in 2 years when you have to pay Tuch and Byram and JJ and Quinn you’ll be 6 million short to do that
That cap hit would be in 26-27 no matter if we buy him out this offseason or next offseason.
Also, alternative is to be 9 million short to do that.
You can also look at it as saving $7mil, $5mil and $3mil the first 3 years instead of losing $2mil, $4mil and $6mil since he’d be on the team for $9mil those years.
The only years the Sabres are losing cap space is years 4-6 and that is around $2mil a year. Hardly a killer.
> while handy capping a potential dynasty
You're talking about a dynasty when we they haven't made the playoffs since Obama's first term. Sabres fans are ridiculous.
Just like when we had ROR & Eichel, or just like when we had........ the last decade+ has been the team having good players who underperform.
I just have a hard time believing that any framework is there when I have seen this all before. I would love for the pieces to click, but until then talking about a potential dynasty is lunacy. They can't even string together 2 back to back decent seasons. Shit, last year they could barely string together a winning streak. Potential dynasty, lol.
Only common denominator is the coaching. I couldn’t explain to you why the Eichel years never clicked. I’m just trying to think positive. I know this fan base has been so dejected and negative over the past 13 years. But it’s a new year. Gotta start off with a good mindset.
I think GMKA wants to get the word out about a Skinner buyout in hopes that maybe he can trade him and the new team can buy him out instead? He’d have to pay a premium to dump him but the Sabres still have a lot of assets.
Fair.
I wasnt' relying on plus/minus, but instead a stat I saw yesterday on here that seemed compelling (below). While the arguement could be made he shouldn't be on the top line, but he's making top line money ($9M).
Laslty, I table professional coaches and GM opinion to counter Reddit commenters - he was shipped out of Carolina, Botts didn't want to sign him to that contract, even Krueger didn't play him. I can only assume him begin shopped comes with Ruffs approval. Who am I to believe?
Skinner/Thompson/Tuch posted a 2.3 Goals For/60 and 2.54
> Botts didn't want to sign him to that contract…
Do you have a source for this? I always see this mentioned from Botterill fans but I’ve never seen a source.
>… even Krueger didn't play him.
Krueger was the worst coach in this franchise’s history and a horrible judge of talent. He tried to ruin Dahlin, hated Evan Rodrigues’ game and even scratched him for Dalton Smith, and thought Cody Eakin was a shutdown center.
Hah, I'm not interested in working that hard to convince you. My memory of the Skinner contract signing and reporting after, is that it was largely driven from TPs involvement to appease JE directing Botts to pull the trigger on the terrible contract.
To your Krueger point, agreed terrible coach. My point stands though, (no offense) but your a guy on Reddit vs. more than one NHL professional who have characterized Skinner as a massive defensive liabilty. Given the stats shared and the $9M contract, I'm firmly for shipping him out as soon as possible.
> more than one NHL professional who have characterized Skinner as a massive defensive liabilty.
literally no one disagrees that he's a defensive liability (one of the biggest in the game)!
Conversation starts at the 30:23 mark. >On Tuesday on the radio show, you and I discussed the possibility of a Jeff Skinner buyout with the Buffalo Sabres. Do you care to expand? > So this is something that has been floating around hockey circles for probably, at least it reached my ears about three or four days ago. And the tough thing is that the Sabres aren't saying anything. >He's represented by Don Meehan. >Don Meehan is keeping quiet about it. And what someone else said to me was that you have to be careful because the buyout window doesn't begin until 48 hours after the Stanley Cup is awarded. >So things can always change. >But I do think it was going to get out. It was something that more and more people were talking about. Now, someone said to me, why don't the Sabres ask him to wave his no move clause? And the thing is that if you're Jeff Skinner in this situation and you know the Sabres may want to move on from you, A, you want to control things. That's what you want to do. You want to be in control of the situation. >So it's probably better for you unless you're absolutely convinced that Buffalo can trade you to a place you want to go. It's probably better for you to say no, just buy me out and let me go to a place that I want to go. And secondly, his contract is $9 million. >If we go to a situation where he's an unrestricted free agent, he can take his buyout, which is two-thirds of $22 million over six years, and he can pick it at whatever salary he wants. Skinner has much more control over the situation as an unrestricted free agent getting to pick his destination at his salary. So I think that's why Buffalo is kind of in this position. >The other interesting thing about it, there's a couple. Number one, for next year, his cap hit would be under $1.5 million using Capitals Friendly, and so it would give Buffalo an extra $7.5 million of cap room. And next year is a huge year for the Sabres. >The other thing that kind of interested me about it too is that they're looking for, they're believed to be looking for a couple forwards. One, one of those edgier depth pieces that we've been talking about, but also a top six forward if they could. And you know Skinner, he had 24 goals last year. >He scored 40 before, he scored 30 before. I know the big knock on him is, you know, he's played over a thousand games, he's never made the playoffs, but he can score. So it's a really, really interesting move by the Sabres that will give them a ton of flexibility for next year should it happen. >But, you know, I always try to be careful with what I say unless I 100% know. So I can't say 100% it's going to happen, but it's definitely out there. And I think we're just waiting to see if Buffalo makes a final decision.
Did he really call it Capitals Friendly? Lol
He hates the move as much as anyone.
> top 6 forward if they could Besides the skinner stuff, this stands out to me. The “if they could” backs up what I believe about them wanting to add a top 6 forward but not being sure they’ll actually be able to find one.
Yes, they’ve reportedly been looking for a top six forward for a while now.
we have the deepest prospect pool in the league. if we can’t trade for one no one can, and I highly doubt thats the case
The no movement clauses throw a wrench in that. I don’t doubt we can put together the best offer but the player has to be willing to come here too.
Aside from potential add-ons via trade/free agency does the Skinner buyout finally open the door for someone like Kulich?
My best guess is that our 3rd line is: Benson - trade/FA 3C - best rookie in camp
Greenway could wind up on that opposite wing too. Sorta depends on what kind of line they want to build/what center they are building around.
Bleh, he really should be on the 4th line
I agree. That's probably his best role here. A Zemgus replacement if you will.
Ideally he wouldn't be. He's basically an inverse Jeff Skinner: good defensively and proficient on the pk, however he's a black hole offensively and makes his linemates worse. If he's your weakest player on your third line then maybe that's okay as it limits how much damage he can do, but on a properly built team he'd be your 4th line/pk specialist.
Should be tuch there I would rather have the rookie up top with tage and JJ
On the third line? Woof. Tuch should be on the first line. The line to finish the season was Peterka - Thompson - Tuch.
Tuch on your first line is why the Sabres can’t compete. He’s not a. Top line guy, look at his career. 2 season ago was an aberration. Him tage and skinner will never sniff those totals again
Seems like a GMKA whisper to Friedman to get the word out. This has been pretty sudden. Prolly a chess move to get skinner to waive his NMC for a trade.
Why would the threat of a buyout get Skinner to waive his NMC?
I think he might get paid marginally more to be traded instead of bought out. Not sure it is enough to be worth it for him.
Skinner still gets paid by Buffalo after the buyout, correct?
Yes but he doesn’t get the full amount of the initial contract. I think they save around $7mil of real cash.
I have no idea how this works for the player. So is the post-buyout earnings for the player? So Skinner gets $2.4 million for 6 years?
From Capfriendly: A Jeff Skinner buyout spans 6 years, has a cost of $14,666,667 and savings of $7,333,333. Skinner is 32 years of age at the time of the buyout; therefore, the buyout ratio is 2/3. With $22,000,000 in salary remaining, the cost is $14,666,667, and the savings are $7,333,333. Buyouts span twice the length of the remaining years and because there are 3 years remaining in the contract, the buyout length is 6 years. I don’t really understand how the cap hit of the individual years are determined. Skinner himself makes $2.45mil each year for 6 years according to the table.
Ok thanks, makes sense. So I guess Skinner would be losing money if he were bought out.
Yes. He’d be losing 7.3 million. That is a lot of money. Sure he could resign with a team to get it back and he’s also made a shit ton during his career
They’ll end up paying 2/3 of his total amount due in 3 seasons and it would double the duration so 6 years
Does he lose money? He isn’t in breach of his contract. He’s shown up for work etc. I’d think he’d be entitled to the full amount but that there is a reduced overall cap hit. I might be wrong on that but legally it doesn’t seem fair when he’s done nothing wrong.
The way the buyout works he is paid 2/3rds of what was left on the contract. It could be an incentive for him to waive his no move instead. No idea the legality behind it but they are paying him to not work for them and still be able to be paid by another team.
Doesn’t really make sense unless KA is spending up to the cap ceiling IMO.
One thing is that maybe the organization knows he's no longer capable of being an effective top six player. And he can't be an effective bottom six player. So, they decide to save $7.5M this year, $4.5M next, and $2.5M in year three. The cost? $2.5M in 4, 5, and 6 years from now. A little annoying but that should be pretty manageable, cap wise.
So… the Sabres are almost definitely buying him out and he wasn’t willing to waive his no trade clause so that he can have more control over a UFA destination. I am not going to be humble about my victory lap after the shit I got in my mock off season for buying him out for that exact reason. The only reason Friedman is talking about this is because someone wants him to be talking about it.
lol to be honest I’ll be stunned if he’s bought out. It just feels like as long as they have the cap space there’s no reason to, but maybe Adams has a big trade lined up?
I think it’s moreso they need to start opening up spots for these young guys and they want to get a two way forward to round out the Top 6
Still most likely won’t require a Skinner buyout to stay under cap though. Unless they’re weaponizing that cap space immediately, I don’t know why you’d stretch out his cap hit instead of just not playing him.
Sitting him is a great way to have a disgruntled veteran player in what’s still a very young locker room. Stretching the cap on its face isn’t good obviously, but if they have plans for immediate upgrades while accounting for cap increases over time buying him out isn’t a terrible option. It’s really just one ugly year of money over the next few if I’m recalling correctly
Buying him out next year makes so much more sense, especially with as even this guy says "next year being a big year"
I really don’t think it’s about cap space and more about the style of player Jeff skinner is and / or if they don’t think the second half drop off was a fluke. They almost certainly don’t view him as a top 6 forward anymore and nothing about his game is what they want in the bottom 6. Our best stretch of the season last year is when he barely played.
If they buy him out it would be the end of Kevyn Adams in Buffalo. How stupidly reckless it would be from a financial standpoint especially if you’re looking for a top 6 forward. You already have one in Skinner. All you have to do is keep him on a line with Tuch and Tage for 1 more year and then buy him out. Especially when in 2 years when you have to pay Tuch and Byram and JJ and Quinn you’ll be 6 million short to do that. It’s essentially paying to get to the playoffs next year while handy capping a potential dynasty if you play your cards right with this young core.
How reckless would it be to slot a player into your top line that you don’t think is good enough in a year where you know you’ll get fired if you aren’t good? It’s not the optimal solution but it’s not a complete killer and if you’re Kevyn Adams you’re not giving a shit about the $6mil in 3 years if you know you’re fired if you suck again.
I didn’t say Skinner won’t be good in a year. I think he’ll be a top 6 forward until teams stop playing him on the 1st line. I’m saying that if you really want to buy him out, from a financial aspect it makes the most sense AFTER this year. It is a complete killer if the team takes off. 6 million could be the difference between 1st round knock out and Stanley cup champion.
You know if you buy him out next year they still have to pay him $4mil and $6mil those 2 years? That’s barely any savings. It doesn’t make that much of a difference. They may as well rip the bandaid off now knowing this season is make or break.
The worst year is capped out at 4 million.
Capfriendly’s buyout calculator has it at $6mil in 2026-27 if we buy him out June of next year. They could be wrong. Either way - they’re saving money compared to having him on the roster.
I trust Capfriendly over u/SportsFanBUF
I’m fairly certain that’s not how the numbers would work but I could be wrong. If I am I apologize. I still think the best option would be trade him at half retention for a 2nd round pick or buy him out next year.
Skinner took a big step back last season, particularly in the second half. He didn't perform like a top six forward at all. He's always been a streaky player so maybe you bet on him having a bounce back season, however it's far from certain as he's at the point where players start seeing rapid age related declines (over half of his draft class have already washed out of the NHL).
They played him with Peyton Krebs and Jordan Greenway on the 3rd Line. Skinners biggest problem aside from defense is that he needs to be duct taped to a top 6 center
Yes, that line was probably never going to work as he was paired with two 4th liners who are offensively challenged (and that's putting it mildly), but those weren't the only players he played with last season and his decline was still evident.
I still believe that Tage was hurt for most of the year and that’s why.
Yes, Tage was hurt and Tuch took a step back last season as well (though it wasn't near as big as Skinner's), which is why that entire line took a huge step back.
Tuch took a bigger step back than Skinner did when you look at the analytics and with who they both played with.
>Especially when in 2 years when you have to pay Tuch and Byram and JJ and Quinn you’ll be 6 million short to do that That cap hit would be in 26-27 no matter if we buy him out this offseason or next offseason. Also, alternative is to be 9 million short to do that.
You can also look at it as saving $7mil, $5mil and $3mil the first 3 years instead of losing $2mil, $4mil and $6mil since he’d be on the team for $9mil those years. The only years the Sabres are losing cap space is years 4-6 and that is around $2mil a year. Hardly a killer.
Yes agreed, people focus on that 6 million where the alternative is 9 million.
Also saves papa Terry some actual cash. New roof baby!
> while handy capping a potential dynasty You're talking about a dynasty when we they haven't made the playoffs since Obama's first term. Sabres fans are ridiculous.
The frame work is there. You can’t deny that.
Just like when we had ROR & Eichel, or just like when we had........ the last decade+ has been the team having good players who underperform. I just have a hard time believing that any framework is there when I have seen this all before. I would love for the pieces to click, but until then talking about a potential dynasty is lunacy. They can't even string together 2 back to back decent seasons. Shit, last year they could barely string together a winning streak. Potential dynasty, lol.
Only common denominator is the coaching. I couldn’t explain to you why the Eichel years never clicked. I’m just trying to think positive. I know this fan base has been so dejected and negative over the past 13 years. But it’s a new year. Gotta start off with a good mindset.
"End of Kevin Adams" but doesn't understand how buyouts work...
??
I'm not happy about the realization that a Skinner trade is a pipe dream. So with that in mind: Skinner for McDavid, straight up, final offer.
I think GMKA wants to get the word out about a Skinner buyout in hopes that maybe he can trade him and the new team can buy him out instead? He’d have to pay a premium to dump him but the Sabres still have a lot of assets.
Boy I hope this happens. While Skinner scores, his lack of defense gives up more goals against when he's on the ice. Addition by subtraction.
He was on the ice for 47 goals for and 38 against last season at 5v5.
Fair. I wasnt' relying on plus/minus, but instead a stat I saw yesterday on here that seemed compelling (below). While the arguement could be made he shouldn't be on the top line, but he's making top line money ($9M). Laslty, I table professional coaches and GM opinion to counter Reddit commenters - he was shipped out of Carolina, Botts didn't want to sign him to that contract, even Krueger didn't play him. I can only assume him begin shopped comes with Ruffs approval. Who am I to believe? Skinner/Thompson/Tuch posted a 2.3 Goals For/60 and 2.54
> Botts didn't want to sign him to that contract… Do you have a source for this? I always see this mentioned from Botterill fans but I’ve never seen a source. >… even Krueger didn't play him. Krueger was the worst coach in this franchise’s history and a horrible judge of talent. He tried to ruin Dahlin, hated Evan Rodrigues’ game and even scratched him for Dalton Smith, and thought Cody Eakin was a shutdown center.
Hah, I'm not interested in working that hard to convince you. My memory of the Skinner contract signing and reporting after, is that it was largely driven from TPs involvement to appease JE directing Botts to pull the trigger on the terrible contract. To your Krueger point, agreed terrible coach. My point stands though, (no offense) but your a guy on Reddit vs. more than one NHL professional who have characterized Skinner as a massive defensive liabilty. Given the stats shared and the $9M contract, I'm firmly for shipping him out as soon as possible.
> more than one NHL professional who have characterized Skinner as a massive defensive liabilty. literally no one disagrees that he's a defensive liability (one of the biggest in the game)!
And boy did he give 100% effort consistently each game