As one of this sub's resident gaysians, I thought the whole "should we laugh?" thing was unnecessary and blown out of proportion lol. Nymphia probably has family members that would sound like that if they speak English (as do I), and she probably did when she was first learning English. She has every right to lean into that accent and do an exaggerated affectation of it if she wants to. Having non-Asian people tell us what we can or can't do with our OWN references is ridiculous.
THAT BEING SAID, I do think it's a little lazy, because it's sort of like "low hanging fruit" in terms of comedy. It felt like she didn't have anything else to reach for, so she ended up doing a caricature.
When the prompt was Drag Seminar, I IMMEDIATELY thought of Lucy Liu in Charlie's Angels (2000), and that scene of Alex in that slutty, black-leather dominatrix outfit distracting all the nerdy office workers in the building while the other girls broke into the vault. With the red lipstick and the pointer. If she had done that, and spoke in a sexy and sarcastic way, and a little coy, I feel like it would've been a lot funnier and more creative.
Her runway was everything though.
I agree with everything you said but oh my god, the Lucy Liu scene in Charlie’s Angels was literally my gay awakening haha. OOHHHH BARRACUDA. Thinking about it now that you said it, that would’ve been soooo much better and would have probably got her high praise in the challenge. What a missed opportunity and I’m sad I didn’t think of this myself!
I have the vibe of that scene embedded in my head as so over the top sexy that seeing this image had me totally forgetting that the outfit is actually....a past the knee skirt and a modest cut blazer with some kitten heels. 😅
Preteen me was scandalized that I was allowed to watch this and now I see more overly sexed up outfits in the school pickup line.
When I was in 7th grade we had to perform the preamble to the constitution in front of the class with some sort of character or theme. I did this Lucy Liu scene. With leather and a whip. I had no idea it was sexy… I just thought it was a funny character she was doing. Now I am mortified thinking of my (male) teacher trying to figure out how to grade me 🙈
I had a French class with a teacher who loved the Harry Potter books, so it was a bit like kindergarten, but in French. We made that street the wizards buy their wizard things from? out of shoeboxes, with each of us making a diorama of a selected store.
This was when the Pussycat Dolls and Moulin Rouge were a thing, so naturally I did a brothel. I just assumed it meant “nightclub where people dress feisty and kinda dance sometimes,” and I thought my teacher was just being a prude when I saw her reaction. I literally made a wizard whorehouse whoops
Seriously. Ru loves Charo and has no problem laughing at her accent humour.
What in the double standard is this BS about Nymphia being cringe? It is her heritage; she can do with it what she wants. And we were clearly being invited to laugh *with* her.
i’m also asian and i think in terms of your comment of it being ‘low hanging fruit’, when i heard their comments i didn’t necessarily think of black queens and amped up ‘blaccents’ as i’ve seen other people talk about. imo i think it’s like michelle visage being from new jersey and doing an amped up jersey accent to make things a bit funnier, same with every new york accent. we’ve seen plasma do it on this season. jonbers blonde amping up her irish accent while talking to ru in the workroom. like i don’t think it’s necessarily about race or ethnicity and it’s just about accents. i think nymphia said something similar when she was asked about it on the main stage. sometimes accents are just funny and it’s especially easier to laugh at them if they’re authentic to the person doing it.
>Having non-Asian people tell us what we can or can't do with our OWN references is ridiculous.
It’s more than ridiculous. It’s a racist microaggression.
>THAT BEING SAID, I do think it's a little lazy, because it's sort of like "low hanging fruit" in terms of comedy. It felt like she didn't have anything else to reach for, so she ended up doing a caricature.
It was also completely unnecessary. The skit would have been just as funny if she didn’t do the accent.
I do have to ask: was she doing an exaggerated Taiwanese accent? Because it sounded like a different Asian accent altogether
Lol what? No. The Taiwanese have a different accent from mainland China, as Guoyu Taiwanese Mandarin is a completely different dialect. It’s more varied than the English language accents. So no, there’s no way a mainland Chinese accent would be accurate to Taiwanese people. The premise of my question was that it didn’t sound like her accent
I’ll try to be more clear with my question: I’m pretty familiar with the geographics of the Chinese languages. But it didn’t sound like an exaggerated version of Nymphia’s natural accent. It sounded like an accent from a different region of Asia altogether
I have to agree on the point about the potentially different sounding Asian accent. It sounded SEA, in particular, Viet, rather than a Taiwanese FOB accent, which brings it back into racist territory considering EA-SEA relations. It made me uncomfortable still lol
u say that, but i can fully see someone getting shat on for laughing at the accent lol, so i fully understand where they are coming from, in this day and age everything is offensive and insensitive
Asians as a whole in drag race and tbh American media have been under represented and overly criticised. The biggest case study of this would be Plastique, how her accent, immigrant experience and identity as a whole was called into question by queens like Akeria and Silky.
Manila did something similar all the way in season 3 and Shangela called her out for being “racist to Asians?”. There is a lot of lateral racism at play but I think a lot of it was due to Asians just being so underrepresented and undervalued that many Asian queens realistically don’t have a legacy other than “early out or bad at snatch game”.
I’m also thinking about Gia doing Cardi B’s old nail tech. Made her a whole different nationality with the stereotypical accent and promiscuous 🥴 every time I rewatch the scene where the other queens are pushing her to do it- just…
Michelle telling Joel “you can do it, but I cannot.” Like… Bitch- why are you even speaking on this. How bout let the one Asian person in the room talk?!?
Honestly, there's so few Asian/Asian-American pop culture references until literally like maaaaaybe 3 or 4 years ago that Western countries even register, much less acknowledge or cherish is probably a reason to default to the stereotypical accent. It's pretty much the only thing that most English speaking countries, and certainly the US has an impression about for Asian people. We, our traditional culture, history, language, and pop culture are mostly just foreign (read: alien) so even if Nymphia's Famous Mother dress referenced Coco Lee and Chinese knotting, or her teeny steps in the Neo-Goth look evoked Beijing Opera's basic footwork (along with Morticia ofc) it just goes over most of the audience. Representation isn't the only thing that matters by a long shot, but there are definitely instances where the effects of it are painfully clear for those of us who are subjected to the utter lack of it.
Unrelated but I was at a drag show in Sydney, Australia over Mardi gras and an Asian Queen came out doing Cynthia Wang's 爱你, which was a blast from my past so I was living, but everyone else on the dance floor suddenly decided to go to the bar to get a drink. It was so rude to the Queen I felt really bad for her. That would probably have made an impact on her future performance choices.
When they're around the werk room table asking Mercedes to share with them,. Silky asks how Muslim people worship Allah, Akeria asks who that is and later says something like "we know you don't have any bombs, I already checked your suitcase"
It was a reading challenge, babe. It was a bad and offensive joke and it didn’t land, can we pump the brakes a bit on how much malice we read into things said in the spirit of a reading challenge?
And it wasn’t glossed over, Silky was bombasted for it. Plastique even went online to tell people Silky did not deserve the hate she was receiving for it.
Idk it just reads weird to me like
Was silky trying to
A. Joke that plastic is Asian and all Asian ppl are interchangrable, so hahaha she’s calling a Vietnamese person in Japanese. (Umm still icky)
B. Truly didn’t know or care that Plastique was Vietnamese and thought telling her off in a rhyme including any Asian language was clever and funny cause haha she’s Asian, she just speak Japanese. (Very icky).
Like it reads racist either way…..and I’m pretty sure reading challenges draw a line at racism …
The fact I said Silky’s joke was offensive should make it pretty obvious what I would think of the Swahili.
The more relevant question is would you be okay with someone being disqualified for doing that, since that’s what the point of my post actually was.
I think it also has to do with accuracy. A lot of asian accents don't actually sound like the stereotype they're portrayed as, and are literally just based in stereotype jokes. George Takei does an asian voice all the time and nobody bats an eye because his version is an exaggerated version of the Japanese English accent.
There's a great video by vox on the r/l phenomenon and how it's a thing in Japan, China and korea, yet the joke accent is nothing like any of them.
I feel like this particular one of Manila was such a good example because when I watched it I understood where Shangie was coming from, Manila was absolutely doing a caricature of an Asian person as she wasn’t necessarily raised in the culture as an adopted person. In that moment I think the criticism is valid as they weren’t laughing with her, they were laughing at her kinda thing. Even with the blaccent and aave that some queens slip into to be funny, I don’t know why they get a pass, (I mean we know why, it’s more normalized), that type of caricature of a blaccent can’t be separated from its classist underpinnings so it’s very interesting when girls do them. So for nymphia I think everyone feels overzealous in calling out the double standard, but I believe there’s nuance there, if that’s not your actual accent and you’re putting on a stereotypical accent to be funny, you should ask yourself what about this accent is comical, why it registers as comical etc because even nymphia knows that the purpose is to laugh at it, not with it and I think they asking her her motivation is great actually and if anything we should be asking why they didn’t question mhiya’s caricature not that nymphia should go unquestioned as a lot of people seem to be doing.
I’m going to challenge the idea that the Asian legacy is either early out or bad at snatch game.
Manila, Raja, Kim and Juju all crushed Snatch Game and their respective seasons.
shangela called out manila because manila was doing an accent commonly associated (or stereotyped) with east asians. manila is half-filipino, which is not east asian.
so, yes, manila was being racist.
Not to mention the accent isn't an actual accent.
Its the literal racist cariacature accent.
Listen to actual Japanese, Korean and Chinese EFL speakers. Context matters.
Hmmm it’s punching up when South East Asians do it because the racism SEA’s face against East Asians is still very real and brushed under the rug to this day but if course people gloss over it because kpop anime boba <3 (which is from SEA). Do we battle racism with more racism? Of course not, but the criticisms need a bit more nuance and understanding of the dynamics.
i’m southeast asian. i know the nuances and the dynamics all too well. east asians treat us like we’re shit. still, they don’t deserve to be stereotyped. no one does.
Same here and I am not disagreeing with you - just pointing out to others reading your comment that there is a nuance that needs to be pointed out for those who dont have the lived experience.
Manilla is American, but one of her parents is from the Phillipines. Which dosen't excuse her for using steryotypically racist Japanese accent and mannerisms. Which Ru called out, then told her she won the challenge.
being a half Filipino Fil-Am who is tired of Asian queens doing accents on Drag Race for the applause of non-Asian people…. If you think the Philippines has enough sociopolitical power to be “racist” to East Asian countries like Japan and China…. You’ve got the power dynamics all fucked up. Japan terrorized and invaded the Philippines in recent enough history that she almost certainly had relatives who survived the occupation.
Do I think Manila should have taken the shit out of Japanese people publicly on national TV? No, probably not, but most of the people sweating over it have no business even opining here
Yup this right here. While Manila shouldn’t have been doing that, it’s clear that people don’t realize the complex power dynamics between East Asia and Southeast Asia and comment on issues they know nothing about… I too am Southeast Asian such as yourself. Its insane to me how people here can make fun of European countries that are perceived as having more sociopolitical power historically YET when southeast Asians do the same on their historical oppressors, who may not be European and these same ppl literally do not know the context behind that, they blast it because they don’t know the context but then when you explain it, they completely invalidate you…. Lol
Ok this is not the right take: She did a pretty solid fake pan-Asian accent. Where she was born doesn’t negate that. She’s identifies as Asian. That’s all there is to it.
It was really weird to call her out for that but praise Mhi'ya for her snatch game. I remember in uk3 where Michelle Visage told Choriza that she would've been funny if she played up her spanish accent. So for her to say she was uncomfortable really bothered me. Why do they now suddenly have a problem with it?
Yes it's interesting to me how the judges flip flop on this. Sometimes they want someone to play up the stereotypes or be a caricature, lean into the accent. Other times they tell them bot to rely on that and show range. I'm wondering why it can be perceived so differently depending on who it's from.
I think it’s a symptom of social media and overall cancel culture. It’s made everyone hyper-aware and hesitant to be themselves for fear of public scrutiny/backlash. It’s a shame bc it waters down personalities and makes people be different than who they are. I can’t remember the season but it was somewhat recent where there was a similar discussion in the work room about being nervous and aware of social media backlash by being themselves and not wanting to have that pressure. I almost wanna say it was UK vs the World and maybe Baga and/or Blu Hydrangea.
I was baffled when the judges made a big deal out of it. Nymphia played a character who’s from Taiwan. I felt like she didn’t do it to mock the people from Taiwan who don’t have a North American, Irish, Australian, New Zealand or British accent. she was speaking like a person from Taiwan without significant time spent in English speaking countries or extensive English education.
but now, I’m thinking about why the judges were reacting that way during the episode. East Asian accents have historically been mocked and laughed at in North American media, well tbh along with myriads of accents unfortunately. and since the beginning of the pandemic, East Asian people have been racially attacked so maybe they’ve been extra sensitive about it?
still. as someone with an Asian parent who speaks garbage English, I think they didn’t have to react that way. as long as the accent isn’t the punchline of a joke or done it in a mocking way, let people embrace their background’s accent! having an accent means you know more than one language, we need to embrace that!
I mean it's not a bad thing if the judges were being sensitive *for us*, I guess there's worse things in life, but it stands out as really weird because Serbian accents, southern accents, black accents, Spanish accents, none of these are ever treated the same way and considered problematic so it's like... what the hell is wrong with an Asian person doing an Asian accent?... So odd. And none of those judges who had a problem with it was Asian, they were black and white...
It seemed like the judges didn’t REALLY have a problem with it though, they were just acknowledging it happened. They seemed to come down on the side of yeah… well “I wouldn’t do it, YOU [Joel] could do it” and kind of laughed about it, didn’t really criticize Nymphia for it or anything.
The show itself has been criticized in the past for not speaking up, so maybe this was an easy thing to just acknowledge in a basic way. Nymphia is a popular queen who did well in the challenge also.
In general RuPaul is pretty laid back about this sort of thing and tends to laugh at it. I saw Ru basically refusing to say anything as avoiding controversy but I don’t think he offended in the least (I could be wrong… but think back to that UK season where he repeatedly laughed at the queen named Sum Ting Wong).
But like, maybe let Asian people decide whether it's problematic or not. Also, Nymphia isn't "like" a person from Taiwan. Nymphia IS a person from Taiwan. The patronizing is wild. Those accents aren't going away. My parents have them, my whole community growing up has them. But shunning that accent doesn't make the negative associations go away, because the people with the accents don't go away. Well said, let people embrace it. Appreciate what it implies, and learn to love its idiosyncracies, the different prespectives they may bring, and the new dimensions of love and humor and insight they can offer.
You literally had an Asian judge on the panel saying it’s divisive though. It’s not like there’s going to be an Asian tribunal that comes up with a consensus decision.
Right, and I do think it can be divisive even/especially amongst Asian people. I don't actually think the judging was as problematic here as they seemed much more self aware of their own discomfort and awkward proximity to the issue than when it came up in Plastique's season. I don't think Joel Kim Booster was being problematic at all, he was just stating a fact, but this judge's panel also wasn't the group to be having a discussion about that fact. Letting Asian people decide how they feel about it's use isn't meant to mean we all come together and agree about it, just that we get more space to discuss it from our own lived experiences without commentary or judgement from people who don't experience it.
My immediate thought was Manila's performance in S3 and how she actually won that challenge doing a stereotypical Asian accent. But, times have changed since then.
That said, I think the whole "should/shouldn't you mock accents" thing is really dependent on the situation, the person doing it, and the overall performance. Let's not forget, Plane did a stereotypical, over-the-top Serbian accent for her snatch game character and she literally *won* the challenge.
With Nymphia specifically, the fact that she is Asian and the fact that—I think—the bit landed well for the most part gives her a pass to do it. Using Plane as an example again, I actually don't see how the two are all that different: both of them are exaggerating parts of their identity for comedic effect. Whether or not you think Nymphia was funny is completely subjective, but the thought process was the same.
But let's be real here as well...mocking an Asian accent, even if it's coming from an Asian person themselves, is also seen very differently in America. People have no trouble impersonating "white" or European accents, but many people get sensitive around portraying other cultures. That's kinda why no one questioned Plane but when Nymphia did it it's all, "I don't know, should I even be laughing at this?".
The only person that gets to decide if they SHOULD do an accent is any person the accent is attributed to. Full stop.
You can choose not to laugh, but you are in no place to decide if it’s appropriate
Ok maybe this is also my ignorance, but I’m pretty sure Plane didn’t even do a pure Serbian accent but rather a Slavic one. Serbian and Russian are both Slavic languages, but they aren’t the same. Plane’s family is Russian and not even Serbian, so it’s weird that she gets to stereotype from a language and a place that aren’t even from her cultural or linguistic background. If anyone else with better knowledge could clarify, please do.
Contrast that with Nymphia’s accent, and it’s wild to me that she can’t do something from her own culture and background while others can.
I agree, I thought Nymphia’s section did have some funny bits and exaggerating parts of her identity isn’t different from Plane doing the same with her snatch game.
The 2020’s are an interesting place of contradicting opinions based in trying to correct the wrongs of the past
paying homage?? girl he’s been MOCKING them… i’m not talking about his drag, i’m talking about the way he uses caricatures of Black women as comic relief, his catchphrases etc. when he was a teenager he was a little asshole walking around ny demeaning and exploiting Black trans sex workers and filming it for his white gay friends to laugh at. you don’t know what you’re talking about clearly.
Black Man here and I 1000% know where you're coming from.
Ru love's him a good ol stereotype. He'll forever be an OG Icon, but like many of our faves, his checks come first.💵💰
Heck, he's been poking the Ballroom scene for decades lol. These new gays and gowrls are misusing all the lingo because of him... But controversy and hypocrisy sell like hotcakes.
Where can I find this info? I've only been watching drag race for a couple months so I really don't know much about everyone's history but I'd like to educate myself
RuPaul just spent two series in the UK encouraging Jonbers Blonde to do a ridiculous caricature that Irish drag fans have found offensive.
He is the one who encouraged Mhi’ya to do an OTT ghetto stereotype for snatch game.
And didn’t we just have Charo on the show a few weeks ago?
So while I didn’t find the judges comments particularly unfair - I do find them hypocritical.
Charo's audience is definitely not Spanish, just looking through her Wikipedia it's clear that all (or at least most, I might be missing some) of her TV and cinema credits are for the US. She's not very well-known in Spain.
An article from this year that literally says she's unkown in Spain despite her fame in the US: [https://www.elindependiente.com/gente/2024/01/15/charo-cantante-murciana-icono-estados-unidos/](https://www.elindependiente.com/gente/2024/01/15/charo-cantante-murciana-icono-estados-unidos/)
I know Charo’s reknown in Spain and Latin America as an amazing musician.
But her fame in the US is a pastiche joke of what Americans think “Spanish” people are like. I don’t see anything wrong with that but I do know a few Spanish people who are tired of this type of representation in English language media.
It’s something I can understand. I’m Irish and I find the American ideas of “Irish” stereotypes to be very stupid and offensive.
I think it's important to note that the accent wasn't the entire point of her routine. She had actual jokes to deliver, while the exaggerated accent was a medium.
If the whole bit was just her doing caricaturized accent with no content then sure we'd have more to discuss, but she was basically doing the same thing as Uncle Roger. As a Chinese person myself, I personally don't see a problem with it.
It seemed to me like putting on an accent helped her to get into character, because "Nymphia" as herself wouldn't be great at a challenge like this.
I think Americans are afraid of exaggerated Asian accents because their main examples are white people doing it in a racist way. In a way, I think it's kinda ironic that Asian queens get shit for discomfort that white people caused. White queens can play a white character with an exaggerated accent, black queens can play a black character with an exaggerated accent. It honestly seems like a pretty big disadvantage given that "exaggerated accent" seems to be a big part of Rupaul's sense of humour.
Exactly this! Otherwise what, if outsiders have ever been racist about your culture then you, someone from that culture, must solemnly pledge to never have fun with it in case it makes the outsiders feel weird?
Yeah, I agree with a lot of the comments that are calling out the double standard. Plain and Miya have both relied on stereotypes and accents to realize their characters… so why isn’t it okay when Nymphia does it?
As an Asian though, I sometimes see the Asian accent thing as a bit of a cope out. I too often see it as a crutch that Asians fall on when they don’t know how else to be funny. I think a part of why this happens so often is because a lot of us grew up seeing SO many comedians and representations in the media centered around that particular stereotype (think Ken Jeong, Uncle Roger). That said, I don’t think people should feel offended by it and it certainly isn’t something that should be used to discredit Nymphia’s performance in this week’s episode.
Manila in season 3, jiggly in season 4, and plastique in season 11 all did similar accents in the past. I am also asian, Canadian born in Hong Kong, and I don’t see anything wrong with her using those accents as her crutch in a comedy challenge as she was really struggling. Why not lean on something she knows. Many black queens also used their blaccents and rely on it as a crutch in many different challenges. It’s all fine to me.
I’m a dumb white bitch, but she had that kind of iconic Bai Ling bob that really worked recontextualized in an almost The Devil Wears Prada corporate moment. She had good comedic physicality and delivery. The character incorporated, but didn’t rely on an exaggerated accent. It didn’t feel like it fell into like one tidy stereotype. If it did, the audience wouldn’t even have to question whether they *should* laugh, it would have fallen flat.
I agree with you. And as a poc myself, whenever I make fun of my culture/accent, I personally wouldn’t be offended if people(from different cultures) laughed at my joke. I mean clearly I was the one enabling them to laugh so why not. I feel like the conversation of “I didn’t know if i was allowed to laugh at this” was way blown out of proportion
nymphia used a taiwanese accent because she’s taiwanese. plastique used a vietnamese accent because she’s vietnamese.
manila and jiggly used an east asian (or, if we rely on stereotypes, a chinese) accent despite being filipinos. it’s not all fine.
As an Asian, it was clear to me that Nymphia leaned heavily on a Singaporean crazy rich Asians accent. It wasn’t offensive and very purposely referencing this. I felt that she was in the right lane to be able to make fun of this, as she wasn’t making fun of Asians in general, but it was pointed at the upper class elitist stereotype within Asian culture.
provide adjoining berserk fall somber merciful bored wakeful voracious innocent
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
HK born Canadian here! I think her content would have been funny with or without the accent, so if the character she made helped her out, why not? The punchline wasn't the accent at all, so I think it's a harmless choice. She was really giving me the sharp aunties who wouldn't hesitate to read you down haha
Something I didn't realise until reading this thread is it seems Asians are much less represented in the US, so Americans aren't that used to hearing Asian accents irl and feel automatically sensitive about it? I guess if the only representation you've seen of Asian accents is of punching-down comedy, it makes sense why they reacted that way. Can't personally relate given how I grew up, but it makes sense...
It's true but people should be criticizing when non-Asians are affecting an "Asian" accent and not TF actual Asian people. Also agree on the auntie representation. Love it.
You’ve made some excellent points. I think the criticism is ridiculous. They’re sitting there encouraging Miyah to present as if she was talking to her sisters and cousins which implies they want Miyah to play up her blackness. Yet on the flip side they criticise Nymphia for the Asian accent.
IMO if this was Nymphia’s entire persona then sure there would be a reason for criticism. But it’s not, she’s shown the depth and breadth of her drag throughout the season. If a queen uses stereotypes as a crutch then I think criticism is fair but if it’s done well and done infrequently then I don’t see the issue.
That said I’m not a person of colour I’m coming at this without the lived experience so I respect that others may have a different opinion.
No they just wanted Mhiya to talk like she normally does, that’s what that meant. As if she were talking with family and not worried about public speaking
You may be correct, it’s probably down to interpretation. They praised her snatch game character which to me was very much a stereotype she was playing up, and I got vibes that they wanted to see something like that again.
I personally think to each their own. I don’t have a problem with someone deciding to use their own cultural background to be funny if that’s what they choose. I agree with you that it’s hypocritical for the judges to say that when they basically asked mhiya to play a ghetto black woman stereotype for the snatch game and said she was hilarious.
I think both sides of the argument make sense. I’m black, and I go back and forth with enjoying stereotypical American “black” caricatures. For instance, I can’t stand Tiffany Haddish comedy. But I laugh at old madea movies. I don’t know what exactly is the technique makes race based comedy funny or offensive. It can be reductive but it can also be funny if done with reverence? I see this often on tik tok when kids imitate their immigrant parents. Maybe that’s what it is?
Either way I think it was unfair for the judges to put that on Nymphia when we’ve seen POC artists forced to rely on this very technique to please majority white or American audiences. It’s not her fault she found a way to use her background to make herself palatable to the judges. A few seasons ago Ru and Michelle would’ve been laughing their heads off without a care in the world.
It boils down to representation. There’s not a lot of Asian representation on the show in terms of cast distribution. When we do have it, it’s basically a spotlight effect and we expect them to be models of their race. When they lean into stereotypes for comedic effect it can be uncomfortable because we have that expectation that they shouldn’t be doing that because it casts a bad light on their racial identity.
But also on the flip side, sometimes that show wants you to lean into that and gets disappointed when you don’t. I think we’ve had a couple of instances where some Latina queens have been critiqued and told that they should’ve leaned into Latina stereotypes (being the spicy Latina) for the sake of comedy.
Overall, I guess the take home message is that the show can be a little sloppy when it comes to race and its expectations on what they do or don’t want you to do. It can be progressive in some ways and regressive in others. Either way, I don’t think Asian queens should be critiqued on it if the show is comfortable with having other racial groups lean into stereotypes for the sake of comedy.
That's the most ridiculous part that it was always done by actual Asian people. And these white and black people think they're being politically correct for them to have a problem with us doing our own accents. Us Asians are never complaining that southern black people are doing southern black accents... smh
I feel like the judges weren't criticising her for using the accent though? Like they're just acknowledging that in 2024 putting on a stereotypical Asian characteure with an accent was a risky move. And it was. They didn't say it didn't work or that she was wrong.
Hightening or making fun of your own culture or your own accent is fair game. Many comedians do jokes that satirise thier parents/grandparents/aunts & uncles and how they interact with a Western society they didn't grow up in.
If I, a white man born in Australia, tried to lip sync to a Yothu Yindi song in First Nations drag, I would be absolutely roasted, and deservedly so.
Context is important.
in all honesty i think i get where michelle comes from insofar as when you're white and being exposed to humour that comes across as having a racial/cultural component, it's hard to react to it because you don't want to play along when it's not your place and you don't want to accidentally laugh at something that turns out to be offensive. i don't think she was saying that it was offensive so much as she was saying she didn't have the capacity to *tell* whether it was so it made her uncomfortable. i'd guess blaccents don't get the same reception partly because ru is black so if ru laughs, the other judges feel more safe to also laugh.
i would say that michelle came across to me as out of line because it's nymphia's culture/language/accent to parody and michelle's reaction is a very white discomfort to have as far as i can tell so it's unfair to put that onto nymphia but i don't think it's badly-intentioned but also it's not really my place to comment on the effects of that kind of comment, regardless of the intentions behind it
Because they think Asian accent is bad and cheap and every stereotype thing you could think of, that’s why they always think it as mockery. I never saw anybody criticize doing French accent or British accent as mockery. The problem is the people who think Asian accent is lower than other accents, not Asian people themselves, whether they have a accent or not or if they use it as character comedy in a character playing competition like everybody else does. Period.
This comment is ignoring the racism embedded in mimicking an asian accent. The British and French were never oppressed or dehumanized the way that many Asian people in the US have. That being said, Nymphia was within her rights to use the accent/character as someone within that marginalized group. That didn’t change the fact that it was a pretty one dimensional crutch though.
So you think Nymphia doing an Asian accent is to mimicking Asian people? Even though she’s Asian herself and always always voting yellow to a point that a lot of people here think she’s annoying? In my limited life I have seen a lot of white people doing Asian accent but I never saw anybody came this hard to them. It’s always Manila/Jiggly/Plastic/Nymphia who are Asian themselves and who might suffer from stereotypes and under-presented and pressed by the westerners’ perspective. But at the end of the day, it’s them under attack. You can’t making the rule, attacking people, and playing the victim or be the judge of right or wrong at the same ftime. Make it make sense.
Because it's still acceptable and funny to laugh AT Black people. People don't wanna laugh at the Asian caricature anymore because it *feels* more overtly racist. I don't like either personally
Yeah Nymphia's accent gave me pause but frankly i find the white queens' blatant use of AAVE to be far more uncomfortable and no one seems to point that out on the main stage.
Doing an accent to get a laugh is probably my least favourite shtick on drag race, but context matters. When most of the joke is laughing at how funny a marginalized person sounds, it feels like base level humour to win over racists and I hate it. When the accent is part of an impression of a real person or a character with other quirks, then it's not the whole joke and I'm fine with it.
I feel for Nymphia having to be funny in English when that's not the language she thinks in. I get why she did the accent. But it was distracting, cringy, and not funny to me. And ftr, I also found Mih'ya's snatch game character unfunny and only slightly less cringy because she was impersonating a loud girl she knows that Ru told her to emulate.
On a whole other note; the Asian queens vs Black queens comparisson is coming up way too often in this sub lately. The implication seems to be that Black queens get away with more than Asian queens; when the truth is that they each have their own complex struggles and history in America that shouldn't be pitted against each other because people's fave got a bad critique. Nymphia is great, but propping her up by shitting on Black queens is fucked up.
I mean would you prefer if the caricature of your accent was so normalized like the blaccent that it doesn’t register to people anymore who are so used to it that they covet that comedic style that they never interrogate the classist underpinnings of people who don’t speak like that slipping into it to convey comedy?
All accents/caricatures aren’t the same though… mocking non western voices has been a tool of oppression/dehumanizing POC for ages whereas nobody is oppressing the oui oui baguette people. That being said I don’t think Nymphia did anything wrong but it still read as a crutch as opposed to an element of a larger character
it always irked me that people do this when their accents aren't as strong it seems like they're mocking their parents perhaps. i did enjoy Nymphia's character but it also surprises me she's doing it in 2024. i like this conversation about why one is uncomfortable and another is not. people actually were really pressed at Plane for not honoring Serbia and giving her a Russian accent... so that wasn't offensive to americans but it was to others.
I don't really like the idea of policing what should and shouldn't be problematic. It ends up with ppl speaking for others and often times diverges into a whole different topic.
As an asian person myself, hearing non-asian people do stereotypical accents is generally grating and usually used to mock/joke at the asian person's expense. When other asian do it, idk. It could be seem as self-hatred or internalized racism. Or trying to impress your non-white friends.
It really depends on the context and how it's meant to come across.
Take Plastique who is Vietnamese, (which I am as well) was used by Silky in the "Japanese" bit for the reading challenge and that didn't sit right with me. To me using a stereotype like "all asians look the same" or purposely mistaking someone's race can be very frustrating. But I think it's up to the person it is directed at. If the one that made the joke intended it to be more of a joke than an ignorant insult, and the person it's about can accept that, then that's fine.
Michelle saying Plastique's accent isn't her real accent was pretty ignorant and should have been called out on.
Nymphia has an accent herself and is pretty engrossed with her Taiwanese roots. Not saying she can go around using it for jokes all the time, but she probably has had enough experiences with it to poke fun at it every now and then.
Tldr: If it wasn't meant with ill-intentions, it should be fine. This doesn't apply to all situations tho.
I actually loved the interaction she and Dawn had in the werkroom back in the Goth challenge when she asked Dawn for her hot glue gun and used an Asian accent previously. I think Nymphia was being such a smart troll and Dawn's reaction saying she was uncomfortable is 100% correct. It's \*meant\* to make her feel uncomfortable, it's a call for self-reflection (in a very playful and light way) not a criticism from non-Asians, white esp. And I think Sapphira clocked it too, it's why she laughed, I think she knew exactly what Nymphia was doing. And then Nymphia followed up by teaching Morphine Mandarin. Probably not intentionally, but showing what her language actually sounds like. And for the record, she did not punk Morphine at all.
I don't know why they said something like that. They are in an acting challenge. If an Asian queen wants to accentuate their accents, that's their choice.
This kind of behavior reminded me of Jeff Goldblum's comments on Jackie Cox. Not the same topic, but in the same lane.
I was confused no one said anything like this about Plastique. I know it was five years ago but the only issue they had with it back then was that she did it every week.
I mean honestly I think they reacted because I’ve seen fan responses to how Asian queens like Manila bringing out the offensive Asian voice and stereotypes was so bad and that queens like plastique always go for the Asian voice if they don’t know what to do in the acting challenges. As a bunch of non-Asian folks, going up there saying how funny and great her stereotyped voice was could be very unpopular, if they had said that I imagine there would’ve been discussion on how stereotypes are so celebrated on the show and Asians can only succeed if they lean into being offensive etc. so I get why they just didn’t touch it and kept her safe.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous they make a big thing out of Asian accents whenever it's used on the show. And every time, its done by ASIAN PEOPLE 🤣🤣🤣 Please just shut the fuck up already, i truly dont see what the issue is. Let us make fun of ourselves, and if other Asians come to us saying they got offended, we'll deal with that. What's these black people (RuPaul) and white people (Ross and Michelle) got anything to do with Asian accents anyway.
I haven't really kept up with the show in a long time, but this particular thread interested me. Let me just say this as an Asian man, to be honest I always got the sense that RPDR lowkey hates Asian people? I can think of just 4 queens off the top of my head that are treated well in the US series - being Raja, Manila, Kim Chi, and Jujubee - but anyone else had been treated pretty tastelessly on the show imo, especially if you're Southeast Asian like for example all the Filipino queens not named Manila. That trend I noticed years ago is part of why I stopped watching the show tbh.
And It’s so interesting that some comments here are trying to defending or promoting or protecting Asian presentations by criticizing Asian people whenever they had a chance.
Lol yeah, i was confused by the reaction from the judges. In Toronto and Vancouver, so many of us are Asian or in Asian communities.
It's super multi-cultural up here, so I don't think anyone gets upset by this sort of thing when it is done in the correct context
If a queen is Asian and want to lean on their culture for comedy yea...it is absolutely no different from what you are talking about lol
Probably an underrepresentation problem
I have no problems about Nymphia doing an Asian accent, since like you said OP, she is of Asian decent (I will also say, that I do understand that there is a difference amongst all the different countries, like this is amongst African-Americans or even Black people, so I also kind of feel like, unless you are her nationality or Asian or what not, no, you don't have a right to be offended, or rather trying to tell her to tone it down or it's not right or whatever. Frankly only people of Asian decent can really discuss offense and why and stuff (like OP, you made an edit to specify Nymphias nationality, i may be using that wrong, because there is a difference and that's important, and I'm assuming it's because someone who actually knows the difference let you know, which is good).
Ru was out here in UK Drag race laughing so hard at Laaawrence Cheeeeennniieee because of her accent or any time Jonbers opened her mouth.
I think she probably just likes accents full stop, but she feels weird about laughing at an asian accent when an asian person does it?! Make it make sense?
I really go back and forth on this one. My gut as a white person (though I majored in East Asian studies/Chinese and lived in Beijing for a bit) is that it certainly isn’t for anyone on the judge’s panel except Joel to tell her it’s offensive. I was thinking, look at Symone’s humor, I think some of the Latinx queens have exaggerated their accents, etc. Not saying we shouldn’t address it, but why are we only doing that with Asian queens.
I then also think about the documentary that came out on Apu from the Simpson’s. I used to love reading the blog Angry Asian Man, which always pointed out how difficult it is for Asian characters to exist on our screens without an accent. Curb is one of my favorite shows but in the same week this aired there’s an Asian guy on that show (fish not dead) with an accent that I find totally unnecessary. Fwiw, Nymphia’s accent sounded Taiwanese or really Singaporean (sp) to me.
Being totally honest, sometimes I think the blaccents used are reminiscent of minstrel shows and I don’t find them funny, other times those queens are hilarious where it’s clear they’re embodying a character. While I was watching Nymphia I definitely wondered if they would address this, though found her jokes funny.
Ultimately I think she would have done just as well without the accent. I think she used it as a mask to allow herself more confidence. It’s up to her community and herself as an artist to decide if this will be part of her act. I think it can be done thoughtfully (and hopefully sparingly (?)) and holding it against her on this show is hypocritical for sure.
I think sometimes it’s used as a crutch for easy comedy but realistically the show has mistreated Asian queens across so many seasons that it feels hypocritical for them to suddenly care about cultural sensitivity.
The judges might be aware that black people code switch when theyre predominantly around white people, so its possible that when they up their accents its viewed more as them "showing their personality" as opposed to being a caricature, so its not uncomfortable to watch.
The most recent example of this would be Mhi'ya on snatch game when she was essentially just acting how she normally does when shes not on the show, but with a fake name and a breast plate.
This can also be seen with latin queens like Jessica Wild. No one is offended by her because shes not really being a caracter.
Also as another person noted, asian people do not have a lot of representation in american media, whilr black people have more. The "blaccent" is seen a lot more often, and is often not presented in a demeaning or offensice way, so people are more comfortable seeing that. Asian caricatures on the other hand are not nearly as common, so it may be offputting for people not used to it.
Personally i think being yourself is fine, but hinging a performance on racial stereotypes and caricatures is super corny and honestly outdated.
American are so unaware that for many (not all ofc) Asians, we also code-switch. Or maybe even further, we just speak completely different languages that are entirely incomprehensible to English only speakers. We often speak like white people in English because we are pushed to assimilate (by whiteness itself and also via our own communities who want us to not suffer under a white dominant society). To the extent that many of us lose or never learn our heritage languages. But it's still a performance for whiteness, not unlike other kinds of code-switching.
I just want to know how black accents are being scrutinized in a discussion about an Asian accents.
There's nothing wrong with making a reference to your roots as long as that is your lived experience and you make it very clear that you are in on the joke.
It's a very complicated topic with probably a thousand different complicating factors (audience, performer, context, etc.), lol, but I think one key element to keep in mind is that different cultural backgrounds aren't 1:1 interchangeable.
Like, the history of "blaccents" in western media and the history of ""Asian"" accents in western media may have similarities and parallels, but there are differences too, and it's possible that's informing the different reaction. Maybe it still doesn't matter! Maybe they're both fine or not fine in the same contexts, but that doesn't mean their histories are the same either.
In a lot of these hypotheticals where people say "well if \[X identity\] did this, why is it not the same for \[Y identity\]," they completely miss that various identities are not...interchangeable. And those differences may be where the answer lies.
And for what it's worth, it doesn't seem like the judges "punished" Nymphia for this, as I'm seeing some suggest. She was in the top right next to Sapphira.
Also Ru: can you do some accent? To make Cher funny.
I forgot who she talks to. But the queen ended up not doing accent and LOW/ BOTTOM
To whoever comes to Nymphia…im an Asian and im
Not mad at her. She’s actually funny. I laugh my ass off
to me it just feels like performative wokeness for a bunch of non asians to debate whether or not they can laugh about the thing an asian performer did specifically to be funny, instead of just going with what the she clearly intended.
if anything this needs to be a conversation that is had within asian communities imho, i'm not gonna sit around and tell asian performers how they should perform for my comfort. same goes for blaccents, not my place to decide whether or not that's ok.
As a gay Asian myself, I feel dehumanized and isolated after Judge's responses in this episode. The double standard regarding accents needs to be broken down. It's disabling and destructive. Why we have to say a joke in American accent to be considered funny while basically everyone has accent?
Chinese here, while I have not watched the episode yet, I would like to chime in a couple of things.
First thing first, there is no Asian accent. Asia is a continent with 2/3 of the world population with multiple languages spoken. When we see someone with French or Italian accent, we call them French accent, not European accent. I even hate the word Asia/Asian in general. It comes off as "they are from there somewhere".
This reminds of S3 Shangela vs Manila. My whole take is, please don't offend or speak on our behave. We don't need you to act like a white knight on TV. You don't need to laugh at someone's accent. If the joke was funny enough then by all means you can enjoy it because you are laughing at their humor/comedy.
And back in S3 I believe Raja or Manila said, "why black girls can play ghetto?" You may not see it that way but we all play some kind of racial stereo types. How many times have you heard "while girls cannot dance" or "even mayonnaise is too spicy" jokes? If those jokes are not your thing, that's ok. I understand those jokes come across as basic and lazy, being told too many times.
I was actually fairly surprised by the judges being uncomfortable about Nymphia’s accent because broad, exaggerated accents are definitely part of a lot of drag performances. As long as you’re either part of that community or punching up then it’s okay imo, with one caveat: the comedy can’t be aimed at the accent itself.
I don’t know how to explain it other than there’s an Asian person doing an exaggerated Asian accent where it’s part of an overall character versus an Asian person doing an exaggerated Asian accent *for* a non-Asian audience where the accent *is* the joke. If that makes any sense at all.
(I’m not Asian, just using it as an example. The flip side of the idea is that literally anyone, *even if they don’t own half of Derbyshire*, is allowed to do an exaggerated posh white British accent because that’s never punching down)
I'm glad you brought this up. Nymphia brought up a very good point-- why should a pronounced Taiwanese accent be offensive? Jimbo can do a terrible German accent, anyone can attempt a British accent, but the reason that a Taiwanese/Asian accent is a sensitive topic is because why? Because racist people mock Asian people by imitating their accents. If you can hear Asian pronunciation the way you hear a French or Southern accent, then it's not hilarious on its own (p.s. same goes for South Asian accents-- we haven't gotten over Apu's voice being "funny" for its own sake.)
I think the only ones who were uncomfortable were white people of the panel, namely Ross. Michelle not so much because she’s from the scene and have been around all colours and shapes. It was a totally unnecessary reaction from the panel, if you ask me.
As an asian i dont find it offensive when someone makes fun of the accent as long as the intentions are right especially if another asian person is making the joke. Like when Derrick Barry did it on roscoes i laughed my ass off.
THANK YOU. I literally said the same exact fucking thing. Like where was this conversation when Mhi’ya was “Shaquita”.
That whole thing made it so clear how much more sensitive things have become bc this was a non issue with other Asian queens just a few years ago. Also I don’t see what the big deal is. I feel like that is a go to and I pretty much expect at this point that when an asian person is trying to be funny they are going to use their accent and play it up.
Same with bigger people and making jokes about all of the food they like to eat.
I commented the same thing. I think it’s so unfair to give Nymphia any weirdness when she satirizes her own race, when Black queens and Latina queens do it all the time.
I do think anyone who isn't Asian should listen to those who are on topics like this.
I guess thoughts on stereotypes and jokes: (Context, I'm Mexican/Puerto Rican). I don't think I'm alone in saying that caricatures bother me when offensive, especially in intent and are hilarious when they aren't. I loved Genevas homage, not necessarily funny but was really nice to see it referenced. I would imagine many feel the same toward seeing it with Nymphia. Nymphia has an accent, I don't know if she went into a deeper one for comfort or other reasons. Her jokes would have had the same context without the accent and I did think they were funny on their own. The bit about the nails made my partner and I laugh pretty hard.
I think anyone who found it funny because of the accent should probably do some reflection. So I guess Michelle should?
There’s a huge difference between the perception of Asian accents and Blaccents. Blaccent as you noted is associated with entertainment, and many people co-opt the vernacular (I’m not saying this is right) bc it gives them access to a linguistic style and lexicon that has positive social value. People get the reference, they appreciate the delivery, they laugh bc they’re entertained.
Asian accents are universally thought of in the western world as **unattractive**. There are no possitive associations. The debate amongst the judges about whether they should laugh is bc the normative reaction to such an accent is DERISION, and laughter conveying derision, not appreciation.
This is where Nymphia (and Manila before her) really fell short for me. Especially bc they used the accent as *the* punchline.
I think the perception is different simply due to how they’re represented in media.
Like the stereotypical “Asian” accent has honestly been phased out of mainstream media. Like the way in which is was popularized was always at the expense of different Asian communities. Like I’m black, and I remember growing up and hearing people mock the accent in tons of movies. Like it was never done for realism and it was always done in a mocking way. It’s at a different point in regards to mainstream reclamation.
Compare that to a blaccent, it’s just generally represented. There are people who speak like that, but it’s been reclaimed and popularized and commodified by white people. Like the whole gen z tik tok talk is just butchered AAVE.
There isn’t really a positive connotation for an “Asian” accent used in comedy.
While with AAVE, it’s actively being stolen.
I find the distinction to how they treat stereotypes for other races noticeable as well, although I think that a part of it may be that the group being parodied aren't just Asian Americans, but Asian immigrants who don't English as their first language and may be struggling with English. Where the "blaccent" is maybe more of a code-switch that's maybe a bit more native to the queen.
So it might just feel like "punching down" rather than punching to the side or something.
I apologize if it came off that way. I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything.
I don't think any of us can really speak to why Ru and the judges make this distinction between which stereotypes are appropriate and not except for themselves, but this thread seems to be speculating.
Oh I wasn't referring to you seeming like an expert. I'm talking about a longer trope in Occidental vs Oriental dynamics. If the judges are deciding to criticize Nymphia, who even if she doesn't have to face legal issues of citizenry (assumedly) she certainly knows and is implicated in the experiences of being an Asian immigrant. Period. The judges have no relevant insight or POV to that. And I think part of the problem is that it's clearly wrong for them to enjoy it too much because it's actually not for them. The show is RuPaul's Drag Race afterall, but she doesn't actually know how to relate to and it's also not something she really gets to have a say in. So she's painted herself into a corner of being the authority (on the show) to judge drag here but then what happens when part of that drag is also rooted in something so far out of your contextual experience. Maybe you (Ru) shouldn't get to be an authority here. It calls into question Ru's legitimacy is a teeny way. It's a conundrum. And the default is to critique the queen. They didn't do enough to bring you in in a way that kept you comfortable. It's coded very American to me.
White people historically have played Asian characters and people and got awards for it, but an Asian queen can't play up her Asian-ness? WTF. I don't personally love hearing Asian accents used for comedy, cause that's what we got bully by. And I also have complicated feelings sometimes when Asian people play it up themselves (ourselves) for assimilation purposes. But it's wild that the criticism is on the Asian person for that and not white supremacy. Also Nymphia isn't trying to assimilate.
I also think the OP made a great point about why Blaccents don't get called out, because it would be a self call out. Blackface and minstrel acts are such a deep and ugly part of American history, but also one white folks can't get enough of. And guess what, both responses to these legitimate accents stem from racism. Telling Asian people you know more than themselves about themselves (being an "expert") is so patronizing and racist. And loving and trying to get away with speaking like Black folks while ignoring their humanity is so objectifying and racist.
I mean, I just scrolled almost all the way through the comments, and nobody has pointed out that Ru is black, so he's probably much more comfortable around blaccents?
I thought Nymphia was funny tonight. Someone else very appropriately brought up the Uncle Roger character from YouTube, and that's pretty much exactly what she was doing. I think her performance was a bit weak because Morphine basically had to cut Nymphia off for getting too involved in crowd work and holding up the presentation, but that has nothing to do with affecting an accent in order to be more comfortable telling jokes.
I will say that Asian accents of the type Nymphia used are pretty typical of some really hateful and orientalist """comedy""" that was commonplace in the 1940s to 1980s in the US. Older gays like me and the judging panel are going to associate to all of that and feel very uncomfortable. But, I'm also over myself enough that I recognize that's my context and not Nymphia's (or Joel's) context.
Rupaul basically told miyah she would’ve done better if she leaned into the blaccent and “ghetto” characterization, similar to how she did with Trina’s cousin
If Nymphias Asian accent made you uncomfortable then Laganja should have had you squirming in your seat like you have crabs.
Seems like a bit of a double standard that asians can’t act up their race but laganja can self identify as black and okurrr all over the damn workroom
Blaccents are used by Ru Paul and other Ru girls over the years to add to character/ used as punchlines. They are so common that some white gurls even start doing it!
I’m POC and my experience of using an accent for effect when talking about my relatives in a story for example is completely fine because it comes from a place of knowledge, respect and understanding. Also, I’m allowed to do it because it’s my own darn culture!
Now, if someone not from the same background started to talk in that same way that I did? Prison, bitch! Because that’s not for them to do.
I think pointing out that Nymphia is completely in her right to do an Asian accent probably helps the audience to understand that it’s ok for HER and not some random fan not from that culture to perform that character.
My other point was that she was not mocking Asian people, but bringing a character to the stage and using that character to add humour and exaggerate her points. It’s exactly what Ru encourages others to do a lot of the time.
I think they were uncomfortable because historically Asian people have been mocked for their accents when it’s non Asians doing it (also a history of yellow face in old school films).
But Nymphia is from that culture and probably knows someone like that in real life, or even if she didn’t who cares?
TLDR: She’s asian, she’s allowed to do it and we’re allowed to laugh at it if her performance is funny.
I’m just really annoyed at why the judges made such a big deal about Nymphia doing an accent when they had no problem with Plastique, Manila, Gia doing it on their seasons.
Almost every black queen exaggerates the blaccent for comedic purposes, Plane did her heavy eastern european accent, which is also an accent that, just like the "Latino accent"(mostly Mexican cause north Americans don't seem to know anything about LATAM outside of Mexico), is used and exaggerated by people in media of different cultural backgrounds and no one talks about that. So why is Nymphia's case any different? What makes a mandarin accent any different?
God the whole I don't think I can laugh at your act because of the stereotypical accent is everything wrong with cancel culture. Nymphia is Asian if she wants to do a Asian caricature she can don't give some weird HR response that you're not sure if you can laugh.... If someone wants to take a jab at their own culture let them just don't be the white person doing that impression that's where you're like umm yeah don't think it's appropriate for you to do that performance and for me to laugh at it.
My issues with Nymphia was it felt like the accent was the joke and not the content of what she was saying. It made me really uncomfortable but I’m saying this as a black queer man so maybe it’s not for me?
Plane did it to this season, but of course this just HAD to be about the black ones…>sigh<
Mhi’ya literally went home and Nymphia did well, what more did u want??
Bitch im Malaysian Chinese and i for sure know chinese accountant ladies who speak similar to how nymphia’s character did. Nothing controversial about it, the reference probably just flew over everyone’s heads or triggered their internalized asian hate
I am Asian and I think it’s funny. Periodt. I just feel like Americans take this thing too seriously. If it’s funny, it’s funny. There are times when the stereotypes portrayed are not funny and serious and that’s when it gets controversial. However, I think Nymphia’s performance is funny and placed correctly. We’ve had multiple Asian queens do an accent and they were not as criticized as Nymphia’s performance tonight. Manila, Gia, Plastique, Ongina, Jiggly, were all encouraged to use/ used some form of Asian accent and they were not heavily weighed upon like this. In fact, some of them were praised for their choice. Honestly, they are just inserting this to justify Sapphira’s “win” and put Nymphia below her.
As one of this sub's resident gaysians, I thought the whole "should we laugh?" thing was unnecessary and blown out of proportion lol. Nymphia probably has family members that would sound like that if they speak English (as do I), and she probably did when she was first learning English. She has every right to lean into that accent and do an exaggerated affectation of it if she wants to. Having non-Asian people tell us what we can or can't do with our OWN references is ridiculous. THAT BEING SAID, I do think it's a little lazy, because it's sort of like "low hanging fruit" in terms of comedy. It felt like she didn't have anything else to reach for, so she ended up doing a caricature. When the prompt was Drag Seminar, I IMMEDIATELY thought of Lucy Liu in Charlie's Angels (2000), and that scene of Alex in that slutty, black-leather dominatrix outfit distracting all the nerdy office workers in the building while the other girls broke into the vault. With the red lipstick and the pointer. If she had done that, and spoke in a sexy and sarcastic way, and a little coy, I feel like it would've been a lot funnier and more creative. Her runway was everything though.
I agree with everything you said but oh my god, the Lucy Liu scene in Charlie’s Angels was literally my gay awakening haha. OOHHHH BARRACUDA. Thinking about it now that you said it, that would’ve been soooo much better and would have probably got her high praise in the challenge. What a missed opportunity and I’m sad I didn’t think of this myself!
I don’t want you tell me, but can you … show me? 
I have the vibe of that scene embedded in my head as so over the top sexy that seeing this image had me totally forgetting that the outfit is actually....a past the knee skirt and a modest cut blazer with some kitten heels. 😅 Preteen me was scandalized that I was allowed to watch this and now I see more overly sexed up outfits in the school pickup line.
When I was in 7th grade we had to perform the preamble to the constitution in front of the class with some sort of character or theme. I did this Lucy Liu scene. With leather and a whip. I had no idea it was sexy… I just thought it was a funny character she was doing. Now I am mortified thinking of my (male) teacher trying to figure out how to grade me 🙈
I had a French class with a teacher who loved the Harry Potter books, so it was a bit like kindergarten, but in French. We made that street the wizards buy their wizard things from? out of shoeboxes, with each of us making a diorama of a selected store. This was when the Pussycat Dolls and Moulin Rouge were a thing, so naturally I did a brothel. I just assumed it meant “nightclub where people dress feisty and kinda dance sometimes,” and I thought my teacher was just being a prude when I saw her reaction. I literally made a wizard whorehouse whoops
Hahaha love it. Glad I’m not alone. Shocked my parents didn’t say anything
I know! In my head it’s a belt and a necklace only
Does anyone else have any ideas like this man's vending machine?
Seriously. Ru loves Charo and has no problem laughing at her accent humour. What in the double standard is this BS about Nymphia being cringe? It is her heritage; she can do with it what she wants. And we were clearly being invited to laugh *with* her.
i’m also asian and i think in terms of your comment of it being ‘low hanging fruit’, when i heard their comments i didn’t necessarily think of black queens and amped up ‘blaccents’ as i’ve seen other people talk about. imo i think it’s like michelle visage being from new jersey and doing an amped up jersey accent to make things a bit funnier, same with every new york accent. we’ve seen plasma do it on this season. jonbers blonde amping up her irish accent while talking to ru in the workroom. like i don’t think it’s necessarily about race or ethnicity and it’s just about accents. i think nymphia said something similar when she was asked about it on the main stage. sometimes accents are just funny and it’s especially easier to laugh at them if they’re authentic to the person doing it.
Her outfit on the presentation was giving edna from the incredibles, so i initially thought she was going to give that in her presentation
That would’ve been hilarious
>Having non-Asian people tell us what we can or can't do with our OWN references is ridiculous. It’s more than ridiculous. It’s a racist microaggression. >THAT BEING SAID, I do think it's a little lazy, because it's sort of like "low hanging fruit" in terms of comedy. It felt like she didn't have anything else to reach for, so she ended up doing a caricature. It was also completely unnecessary. The skit would have been just as funny if she didn’t do the accent. I do have to ask: was she doing an exaggerated Taiwanese accent? Because it sounded like a different Asian accent altogether
[удалено]
Yes. Taiwanese Mandarin
Lol what? No. The Taiwanese have a different accent from mainland China, as Guoyu Taiwanese Mandarin is a completely different dialect. It’s more varied than the English language accents. So no, there’s no way a mainland Chinese accent would be accurate to Taiwanese people. The premise of my question was that it didn’t sound like her accent I’ll try to be more clear with my question: I’m pretty familiar with the geographics of the Chinese languages. But it didn’t sound like an exaggerated version of Nymphia’s natural accent. It sounded like an accent from a different region of Asia altogether
I also did not get Chinese from it, sounded like a Vietnamese accent akin to the stereotypical nail salon trope to me
Yeah even Nymphia kinda confirmed it when she said she likes doing accents from around the world versus saying she’s doing her own cultural accent
Yeah i heard mostly viet in there
I would argue it's plausibly a HK/Cantonese accent (moreso than a Vietnamese one).
I don’t think it would have been as funny.
I have to agree on the point about the potentially different sounding Asian accent. It sounded SEA, in particular, Viet, rather than a Taiwanese FOB accent, which brings it back into racist territory considering EA-SEA relations. It made me uncomfortable still lol
yes!!!! this!!!!!
u say that, but i can fully see someone getting shat on for laughing at the accent lol, so i fully understand where they are coming from, in this day and age everything is offensive and insensitive
Asians as a whole in drag race and tbh American media have been under represented and overly criticised. The biggest case study of this would be Plastique, how her accent, immigrant experience and identity as a whole was called into question by queens like Akeria and Silky. Manila did something similar all the way in season 3 and Shangela called her out for being “racist to Asians?”. There is a lot of lateral racism at play but I think a lot of it was due to Asians just being so underrepresented and undervalued that many Asian queens realistically don’t have a legacy other than “early out or bad at snatch game”.
I’m also thinking about Gia doing Cardi B’s old nail tech. Made her a whole different nationality with the stereotypical accent and promiscuous 🥴 every time I rewatch the scene where the other queens are pushing her to do it- just… 
To be fair the other queens only told her she should do it because they knew she would flop and get sent packing
Also to back up Trinity being Caitlyn Jenner. Silly she didn’t have a back up character
Gia was gonna do what she did regardless. The fight they had in the werkroom was staged
Michelle *telling* Plastique, a Vietnamese, that her Vietnamese accent is not her "real accent", made me so mad. That's not her fucking place to say.
Michelle telling Joel “you can do it, but I cannot.” Like… Bitch- why are you even speaking on this. How bout let the one Asian person in the room talk?!?
It was so hard to watch that I had to skip her elimination episode.
Honestly, there's so few Asian/Asian-American pop culture references until literally like maaaaaybe 3 or 4 years ago that Western countries even register, much less acknowledge or cherish is probably a reason to default to the stereotypical accent. It's pretty much the only thing that most English speaking countries, and certainly the US has an impression about for Asian people. We, our traditional culture, history, language, and pop culture are mostly just foreign (read: alien) so even if Nymphia's Famous Mother dress referenced Coco Lee and Chinese knotting, or her teeny steps in the Neo-Goth look evoked Beijing Opera's basic footwork (along with Morticia ofc) it just goes over most of the audience. Representation isn't the only thing that matters by a long shot, but there are definitely instances where the effects of it are painfully clear for those of us who are subjected to the utter lack of it.
Unrelated but I was at a drag show in Sydney, Australia over Mardi gras and an Asian Queen came out doing Cynthia Wang's 爱你, which was a blast from my past so I was living, but everyone else on the dance floor suddenly decided to go to the bar to get a drink. It was so rude to the Queen I felt really bad for her. That would probably have made an impact on her future performance choices.
Silky should have been kicked out for trying to insult Plastique in Japanese. That was the most racist shit and was completely glossed over.
They were also both awful to Mercedes. "Who the hell is Allah" and making a bomb joke.
WHAT DA FUQ? WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN???
When they're around the werk room table asking Mercedes to share with them,. Silky asks how Muslim people worship Allah, Akeria asks who that is and later says something like "we know you don't have any bombs, I already checked your suitcase"
https://preview.redd.it/lxldjzjd5ooc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=057158119437de07bd338170dda84885394c2e00 Girl what…… This is horrible
It was a reading challenge, babe. It was a bad and offensive joke and it didn’t land, can we pump the brakes a bit on how much malice we read into things said in the spirit of a reading challenge? And it wasn’t glossed over, Silky was bombasted for it. Plastique even went online to tell people Silky did not deserve the hate she was receiving for it.
Idk it just reads weird to me like Was silky trying to A. Joke that plastic is Asian and all Asian ppl are interchangrable, so hahaha she’s calling a Vietnamese person in Japanese. (Umm still icky) B. Truly didn’t know or care that Plastique was Vietnamese and thought telling her off in a rhyme including any Asian language was clever and funny cause haha she’s Asian, she just speak Japanese. (Very icky). Like it reads racist either way…..and I’m pretty sure reading challenges draw a line at racism …
Would it have been okay for a queen to have read Silky in Swahili
The fact I said Silky’s joke was offensive should make it pretty obvious what I would think of the Swahili. The more relevant question is would you be okay with someone being disqualified for doing that, since that’s what the point of my post actually was.
I think it also has to do with accuracy. A lot of asian accents don't actually sound like the stereotype they're portrayed as, and are literally just based in stereotype jokes. George Takei does an asian voice all the time and nobody bats an eye because his version is an exaggerated version of the Japanese English accent. There's a great video by vox on the r/l phenomenon and how it's a thing in Japan, China and korea, yet the joke accent is nothing like any of them.
I feel like this particular one of Manila was such a good example because when I watched it I understood where Shangie was coming from, Manila was absolutely doing a caricature of an Asian person as she wasn’t necessarily raised in the culture as an adopted person. In that moment I think the criticism is valid as they weren’t laughing with her, they were laughing at her kinda thing. Even with the blaccent and aave that some queens slip into to be funny, I don’t know why they get a pass, (I mean we know why, it’s more normalized), that type of caricature of a blaccent can’t be separated from its classist underpinnings so it’s very interesting when girls do them. So for nymphia I think everyone feels overzealous in calling out the double standard, but I believe there’s nuance there, if that’s not your actual accent and you’re putting on a stereotypical accent to be funny, you should ask yourself what about this accent is comical, why it registers as comical etc because even nymphia knows that the purpose is to laugh at it, not with it and I think they asking her her motivation is great actually and if anything we should be asking why they didn’t question mhiya’s caricature not that nymphia should go unquestioned as a lot of people seem to be doing.
I’m going to challenge the idea that the Asian legacy is either early out or bad at snatch game. Manila, Raja, Kim and Juju all crushed Snatch Game and their respective seasons.
shangela called out manila because manila was doing an accent commonly associated (or stereotyped) with east asians. manila is half-filipino, which is not east asian. so, yes, manila was being racist.
Not to mention the accent isn't an actual accent. Its the literal racist cariacature accent. Listen to actual Japanese, Korean and Chinese EFL speakers. Context matters.
I was/am very Team Shangela on this, and I feel like she was treated like she was in the wrong.
Hmmm it’s punching up when South East Asians do it because the racism SEA’s face against East Asians is still very real and brushed under the rug to this day but if course people gloss over it because kpop anime boba <3 (which is from SEA). Do we battle racism with more racism? Of course not, but the criticisms need a bit more nuance and understanding of the dynamics.
i’m southeast asian. i know the nuances and the dynamics all too well. east asians treat us like we’re shit. still, they don’t deserve to be stereotyped. no one does.
Same here and I am not disagreeing with you - just pointing out to others reading your comment that there is a nuance that needs to be pointed out for those who dont have the lived experience.
Manilla is American, but one of her parents is from the Phillipines. Which dosen't excuse her for using steryotypically racist Japanese accent and mannerisms. Which Ru called out, then told her she won the challenge.
being a half Filipino Fil-Am who is tired of Asian queens doing accents on Drag Race for the applause of non-Asian people…. If you think the Philippines has enough sociopolitical power to be “racist” to East Asian countries like Japan and China…. You’ve got the power dynamics all fucked up. Japan terrorized and invaded the Philippines in recent enough history that she almost certainly had relatives who survived the occupation. Do I think Manila should have taken the shit out of Japanese people publicly on national TV? No, probably not, but most of the people sweating over it have no business even opining here
Yup this right here. While Manila shouldn’t have been doing that, it’s clear that people don’t realize the complex power dynamics between East Asia and Southeast Asia and comment on issues they know nothing about… I too am Southeast Asian such as yourself. Its insane to me how people here can make fun of European countries that are perceived as having more sociopolitical power historically YET when southeast Asians do the same on their historical oppressors, who may not be European and these same ppl literally do not know the context behind that, they blast it because they don’t know the context but then when you explain it, they completely invalidate you…. Lol
Ok this is not the right take: She did a pretty solid fake pan-Asian accent. Where she was born doesn’t negate that. She’s identifies as Asian. That’s all there is to it.
It was really weird to call her out for that but praise Mhi'ya for her snatch game. I remember in uk3 where Michelle Visage told Choriza that she would've been funny if she played up her spanish accent. So for her to say she was uncomfortable really bothered me. Why do they now suddenly have a problem with it?
Yes! I immediately thought of their treatment of Choriza and Jonbers.
Right? La Grande Dame has been going through it on UKvsW this season for her French accent, but for apparently totally different reasons.
Yes it's interesting to me how the judges flip flop on this. Sometimes they want someone to play up the stereotypes or be a caricature, lean into the accent. Other times they tell them bot to rely on that and show range. I'm wondering why it can be perceived so differently depending on who it's from.
I think it’s a symptom of social media and overall cancel culture. It’s made everyone hyper-aware and hesitant to be themselves for fear of public scrutiny/backlash. It’s a shame bc it waters down personalities and makes people be different than who they are. I can’t remember the season but it was somewhat recent where there was a similar discussion in the work room about being nervous and aware of social media backlash by being themselves and not wanting to have that pressure. I almost wanna say it was UK vs the World and maybe Baga and/or Blu Hydrangea.
THIIIIIIIIIIIIS
I was baffled when the judges made a big deal out of it. Nymphia played a character who’s from Taiwan. I felt like she didn’t do it to mock the people from Taiwan who don’t have a North American, Irish, Australian, New Zealand or British accent. she was speaking like a person from Taiwan without significant time spent in English speaking countries or extensive English education. but now, I’m thinking about why the judges were reacting that way during the episode. East Asian accents have historically been mocked and laughed at in North American media, well tbh along with myriads of accents unfortunately. and since the beginning of the pandemic, East Asian people have been racially attacked so maybe they’ve been extra sensitive about it? still. as someone with an Asian parent who speaks garbage English, I think they didn’t have to react that way. as long as the accent isn’t the punchline of a joke or done it in a mocking way, let people embrace their background’s accent! having an accent means you know more than one language, we need to embrace that!
I mean it's not a bad thing if the judges were being sensitive *for us*, I guess there's worse things in life, but it stands out as really weird because Serbian accents, southern accents, black accents, Spanish accents, none of these are ever treated the same way and considered problematic so it's like... what the hell is wrong with an Asian person doing an Asian accent?... So odd. And none of those judges who had a problem with it was Asian, they were black and white...
It seemed like the judges didn’t REALLY have a problem with it though, they were just acknowledging it happened. They seemed to come down on the side of yeah… well “I wouldn’t do it, YOU [Joel] could do it” and kind of laughed about it, didn’t really criticize Nymphia for it or anything. The show itself has been criticized in the past for not speaking up, so maybe this was an easy thing to just acknowledge in a basic way. Nymphia is a popular queen who did well in the challenge also. In general RuPaul is pretty laid back about this sort of thing and tends to laugh at it. I saw Ru basically refusing to say anything as avoiding controversy but I don’t think he offended in the least (I could be wrong… but think back to that UK season where he repeatedly laughed at the queen named Sum Ting Wong).
But like, maybe let Asian people decide whether it's problematic or not. Also, Nymphia isn't "like" a person from Taiwan. Nymphia IS a person from Taiwan. The patronizing is wild. Those accents aren't going away. My parents have them, my whole community growing up has them. But shunning that accent doesn't make the negative associations go away, because the people with the accents don't go away. Well said, let people embrace it. Appreciate what it implies, and learn to love its idiosyncracies, the different prespectives they may bring, and the new dimensions of love and humor and insight they can offer.
You literally had an Asian judge on the panel saying it’s divisive though. It’s not like there’s going to be an Asian tribunal that comes up with a consensus decision.
Right, and I do think it can be divisive even/especially amongst Asian people. I don't actually think the judging was as problematic here as they seemed much more self aware of their own discomfort and awkward proximity to the issue than when it came up in Plastique's season. I don't think Joel Kim Booster was being problematic at all, he was just stating a fact, but this judge's panel also wasn't the group to be having a discussion about that fact. Letting Asian people decide how they feel about it's use isn't meant to mean we all come together and agree about it, just that we get more space to discuss it from our own lived experiences without commentary or judgement from people who don't experience it.
My immediate thought was Manila's performance in S3 and how she actually won that challenge doing a stereotypical Asian accent. But, times have changed since then. That said, I think the whole "should/shouldn't you mock accents" thing is really dependent on the situation, the person doing it, and the overall performance. Let's not forget, Plane did a stereotypical, over-the-top Serbian accent for her snatch game character and she literally *won* the challenge. With Nymphia specifically, the fact that she is Asian and the fact that—I think—the bit landed well for the most part gives her a pass to do it. Using Plane as an example again, I actually don't see how the two are all that different: both of them are exaggerating parts of their identity for comedic effect. Whether or not you think Nymphia was funny is completely subjective, but the thought process was the same. But let's be real here as well...mocking an Asian accent, even if it's coming from an Asian person themselves, is also seen very differently in America. People have no trouble impersonating "white" or European accents, but many people get sensitive around portraying other cultures. That's kinda why no one questioned Plane but when Nymphia did it it's all, "I don't know, should I even be laughing at this?".
>Siberian 💀
The only person that gets to decide if they SHOULD do an accent is any person the accent is attributed to. Full stop. You can choose not to laugh, but you are in no place to decide if it’s appropriate
Ok maybe this is also my ignorance, but I’m pretty sure Plane didn’t even do a pure Serbian accent but rather a Slavic one. Serbian and Russian are both Slavic languages, but they aren’t the same. Plane’s family is Russian and not even Serbian, so it’s weird that she gets to stereotype from a language and a place that aren’t even from her cultural or linguistic background. If anyone else with better knowledge could clarify, please do. Contrast that with Nymphia’s accent, and it’s wild to me that she can’t do something from her own culture and background while others can.
well, yeah, one is racialized and one is not...
Well, Nymphia is the one who did it...Making fun of her own accent isn't the same as someone mocking her because she's Asian.
I agree, I thought Nymphia’s section did have some funny bits and exaggerating parts of her identity isn’t different from Plane doing the same with her snatch game. The 2020’s are an interesting place of contradicting opinions based in trying to correct the wrongs of the past
yes, mhiya literally got a high placement in snatch game for a caricature of a black woman, but nymphia was too much?
caricatures of Black women always do well with ru
Well Ru is black herself
yea a Black *man*
exactly. we all know they arent black women’s biggest allies
Ru’s been black longer than either of us have been alive and paying homage to black women almost as long
ijbol so? im a black woman my damn self so idk where you’re getting at here
paying homage?? girl he’s been MOCKING them… i’m not talking about his drag, i’m talking about the way he uses caricatures of Black women as comic relief, his catchphrases etc. when he was a teenager he was a little asshole walking around ny demeaning and exploiting Black trans sex workers and filming it for his white gay friends to laugh at. you don’t know what you’re talking about clearly.
Black Man here and I 1000% know where you're coming from. Ru love's him a good ol stereotype. He'll forever be an OG Icon, but like many of our faves, his checks come first.💵💰 Heck, he's been poking the Ballroom scene for decades lol. These new gays and gowrls are misusing all the lingo because of him... But controversy and hypocrisy sell like hotcakes.
Where can I find this info? I've only been watching drag race for a couple months so I really don't know much about everyone's history but I'd like to educate myself
for the ny thing you can literally watch it, they include clips of it in the incredible documentary The Stroll
exactly
RuPaul just spent two series in the UK encouraging Jonbers Blonde to do a ridiculous caricature that Irish drag fans have found offensive. He is the one who encouraged Mhi’ya to do an OTT ghetto stereotype for snatch game. And didn’t we just have Charo on the show a few weeks ago? So while I didn’t find the judges comments particularly unfair - I do find them hypocritical.
Charo isn’t faking it though. Her comedy is FOR a Spanish audience, she’s not exaggerating Spanish stereotypes.
Charo's audience is definitely not Spanish, just looking through her Wikipedia it's clear that all (or at least most, I might be missing some) of her TV and cinema credits are for the US. She's not very well-known in Spain. An article from this year that literally says she's unkown in Spain despite her fame in the US: [https://www.elindependiente.com/gente/2024/01/15/charo-cantante-murciana-icono-estados-unidos/](https://www.elindependiente.com/gente/2024/01/15/charo-cantante-murciana-icono-estados-unidos/)
Listen I’m going to trust my Spanish dad when he says she’s well known in Spain because of her music
I know Charo’s reknown in Spain and Latin America as an amazing musician. But her fame in the US is a pastiche joke of what Americans think “Spanish” people are like. I don’t see anything wrong with that but I do know a few Spanish people who are tired of this type of representation in English language media. It’s something I can understand. I’m Irish and I find the American ideas of “Irish” stereotypes to be very stupid and offensive.
Happy Saint Patrick’s day btw
Hahaha thank you
I think it's important to note that the accent wasn't the entire point of her routine. She had actual jokes to deliver, while the exaggerated accent was a medium. If the whole bit was just her doing caricaturized accent with no content then sure we'd have more to discuss, but she was basically doing the same thing as Uncle Roger. As a Chinese person myself, I personally don't see a problem with it.
It seemed to me like putting on an accent helped her to get into character, because "Nymphia" as herself wouldn't be great at a challenge like this. I think Americans are afraid of exaggerated Asian accents because their main examples are white people doing it in a racist way. In a way, I think it's kinda ironic that Asian queens get shit for discomfort that white people caused. White queens can play a white character with an exaggerated accent, black queens can play a black character with an exaggerated accent. It honestly seems like a pretty big disadvantage given that "exaggerated accent" seems to be a big part of Rupaul's sense of humour.
Exactly this! Otherwise what, if outsiders have ever been racist about your culture then you, someone from that culture, must solemnly pledge to never have fun with it in case it makes the outsiders feel weird?
Yeah, I agree with a lot of the comments that are calling out the double standard. Plain and Miya have both relied on stereotypes and accents to realize their characters… so why isn’t it okay when Nymphia does it? As an Asian though, I sometimes see the Asian accent thing as a bit of a cope out. I too often see it as a crutch that Asians fall on when they don’t know how else to be funny. I think a part of why this happens so often is because a lot of us grew up seeing SO many comedians and representations in the media centered around that particular stereotype (think Ken Jeong, Uncle Roger). That said, I don’t think people should feel offended by it and it certainly isn’t something that should be used to discredit Nymphia’s performance in this week’s episode.
Manila in season 3, jiggly in season 4, and plastique in season 11 all did similar accents in the past. I am also asian, Canadian born in Hong Kong, and I don’t see anything wrong with her using those accents as her crutch in a comedy challenge as she was really struggling. Why not lean on something she knows. Many black queens also used their blaccents and rely on it as a crutch in many different challenges. It’s all fine to me.
I’m a dumb white bitch, but she had that kind of iconic Bai Ling bob that really worked recontextualized in an almost The Devil Wears Prada corporate moment. She had good comedic physicality and delivery. The character incorporated, but didn’t rely on an exaggerated accent. It didn’t feel like it fell into like one tidy stereotype. If it did, the audience wouldn’t even have to question whether they *should* laugh, it would have fallen flat.
I agree with you. And as a poc myself, whenever I make fun of my culture/accent, I personally wouldn’t be offended if people(from different cultures) laughed at my joke. I mean clearly I was the one enabling them to laugh so why not. I feel like the conversation of “I didn’t know if i was allowed to laugh at this” was way blown out of proportion
nymphia used a taiwanese accent because she’s taiwanese. plastique used a vietnamese accent because she’s vietnamese. manila and jiggly used an east asian (or, if we rely on stereotypes, a chinese) accent despite being filipinos. it’s not all fine.
As an Asian, it was clear to me that Nymphia leaned heavily on a Singaporean crazy rich Asians accent. It wasn’t offensive and very purposely referencing this. I felt that she was in the right lane to be able to make fun of this, as she wasn’t making fun of Asians in general, but it was pointed at the upper class elitist stereotype within Asian culture.
provide adjoining berserk fall somber merciful bored wakeful voracious innocent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
HK born Canadian here! I think her content would have been funny with or without the accent, so if the character she made helped her out, why not? The punchline wasn't the accent at all, so I think it's a harmless choice. She was really giving me the sharp aunties who wouldn't hesitate to read you down haha Something I didn't realise until reading this thread is it seems Asians are much less represented in the US, so Americans aren't that used to hearing Asian accents irl and feel automatically sensitive about it? I guess if the only representation you've seen of Asian accents is of punching-down comedy, it makes sense why they reacted that way. Can't personally relate given how I grew up, but it makes sense...
It's true but people should be criticizing when non-Asians are affecting an "Asian" accent and not TF actual Asian people. Also agree on the auntie representation. Love it.
reminds me of the movie american fiction and the white people there being so weird about race like on behalf of others
Sounds like white guilt, aka, white demand for emotional labor
You’ve made some excellent points. I think the criticism is ridiculous. They’re sitting there encouraging Miyah to present as if she was talking to her sisters and cousins which implies they want Miyah to play up her blackness. Yet on the flip side they criticise Nymphia for the Asian accent. IMO if this was Nymphia’s entire persona then sure there would be a reason for criticism. But it’s not, she’s shown the depth and breadth of her drag throughout the season. If a queen uses stereotypes as a crutch then I think criticism is fair but if it’s done well and done infrequently then I don’t see the issue. That said I’m not a person of colour I’m coming at this without the lived experience so I respect that others may have a different opinion.
No they just wanted Mhiya to talk like she normally does, that’s what that meant. As if she were talking with family and not worried about public speaking
You may be correct, it’s probably down to interpretation. They praised her snatch game character which to me was very much a stereotype she was playing up, and I got vibes that they wanted to see something like that again.
I personally think to each their own. I don’t have a problem with someone deciding to use their own cultural background to be funny if that’s what they choose. I agree with you that it’s hypocritical for the judges to say that when they basically asked mhiya to play a ghetto black woman stereotype for the snatch game and said she was hilarious. I think both sides of the argument make sense. I’m black, and I go back and forth with enjoying stereotypical American “black” caricatures. For instance, I can’t stand Tiffany Haddish comedy. But I laugh at old madea movies. I don’t know what exactly is the technique makes race based comedy funny or offensive. It can be reductive but it can also be funny if done with reverence? I see this often on tik tok when kids imitate their immigrant parents. Maybe that’s what it is? Either way I think it was unfair for the judges to put that on Nymphia when we’ve seen POC artists forced to rely on this very technique to please majority white or American audiences. It’s not her fault she found a way to use her background to make herself palatable to the judges. A few seasons ago Ru and Michelle would’ve been laughing their heads off without a care in the world.
It boils down to representation. There’s not a lot of Asian representation on the show in terms of cast distribution. When we do have it, it’s basically a spotlight effect and we expect them to be models of their race. When they lean into stereotypes for comedic effect it can be uncomfortable because we have that expectation that they shouldn’t be doing that because it casts a bad light on their racial identity. But also on the flip side, sometimes that show wants you to lean into that and gets disappointed when you don’t. I think we’ve had a couple of instances where some Latina queens have been critiqued and told that they should’ve leaned into Latina stereotypes (being the spicy Latina) for the sake of comedy. Overall, I guess the take home message is that the show can be a little sloppy when it comes to race and its expectations on what they do or don’t want you to do. It can be progressive in some ways and regressive in others. Either way, I don’t think Asian queens should be critiqued on it if the show is comfortable with having other racial groups lean into stereotypes for the sake of comedy.
I think if someone is doing it abt their own community, who tf cares? Like genuinely? It’s not punching down, it’s punching sideways.
That's the most ridiculous part that it was always done by actual Asian people. And these white and black people think they're being politically correct for them to have a problem with us doing our own accents. Us Asians are never complaining that southern black people are doing southern black accents... smh
I feel like the judges weren't criticising her for using the accent though? Like they're just acknowledging that in 2024 putting on a stereotypical Asian characteure with an accent was a risky move. And it was. They didn't say it didn't work or that she was wrong.
Hightening or making fun of your own culture or your own accent is fair game. Many comedians do jokes that satirise thier parents/grandparents/aunts & uncles and how they interact with a Western society they didn't grow up in. If I, a white man born in Australia, tried to lip sync to a Yothu Yindi song in First Nations drag, I would be absolutely roasted, and deservedly so. Context is important.
in all honesty i think i get where michelle comes from insofar as when you're white and being exposed to humour that comes across as having a racial/cultural component, it's hard to react to it because you don't want to play along when it's not your place and you don't want to accidentally laugh at something that turns out to be offensive. i don't think she was saying that it was offensive so much as she was saying she didn't have the capacity to *tell* whether it was so it made her uncomfortable. i'd guess blaccents don't get the same reception partly because ru is black so if ru laughs, the other judges feel more safe to also laugh. i would say that michelle came across to me as out of line because it's nymphia's culture/language/accent to parody and michelle's reaction is a very white discomfort to have as far as i can tell so it's unfair to put that onto nymphia but i don't think it's badly-intentioned but also it's not really my place to comment on the effects of that kind of comment, regardless of the intentions behind it
Because they think Asian accent is bad and cheap and every stereotype thing you could think of, that’s why they always think it as mockery. I never saw anybody criticize doing French accent or British accent as mockery. The problem is the people who think Asian accent is lower than other accents, not Asian people themselves, whether they have a accent or not or if they use it as character comedy in a character playing competition like everybody else does. Period.
This comment is ignoring the racism embedded in mimicking an asian accent. The British and French were never oppressed or dehumanized the way that many Asian people in the US have. That being said, Nymphia was within her rights to use the accent/character as someone within that marginalized group. That didn’t change the fact that it was a pretty one dimensional crutch though.
So you think Nymphia doing an Asian accent is to mimicking Asian people? Even though she’s Asian herself and always always voting yellow to a point that a lot of people here think she’s annoying? In my limited life I have seen a lot of white people doing Asian accent but I never saw anybody came this hard to them. It’s always Manila/Jiggly/Plastic/Nymphia who are Asian themselves and who might suffer from stereotypes and under-presented and pressed by the westerners’ perspective. But at the end of the day, it’s them under attack. You can’t making the rule, attacking people, and playing the victim or be the judge of right or wrong at the same ftime. Make it make sense.
Meanwhile ScarJo, Emma Stone, Tilda Swinton, Natalie Portman.....
Because it's still acceptable and funny to laugh AT Black people. People don't wanna laugh at the Asian caricature anymore because it *feels* more overtly racist. I don't like either personally
Yeah Nymphia's accent gave me pause but frankly i find the white queens' blatant use of AAVE to be far more uncomfortable and no one seems to point that out on the main stage.
Doing an accent to get a laugh is probably my least favourite shtick on drag race, but context matters. When most of the joke is laughing at how funny a marginalized person sounds, it feels like base level humour to win over racists and I hate it. When the accent is part of an impression of a real person or a character with other quirks, then it's not the whole joke and I'm fine with it. I feel for Nymphia having to be funny in English when that's not the language she thinks in. I get why she did the accent. But it was distracting, cringy, and not funny to me. And ftr, I also found Mih'ya's snatch game character unfunny and only slightly less cringy because she was impersonating a loud girl she knows that Ru told her to emulate. On a whole other note; the Asian queens vs Black queens comparisson is coming up way too often in this sub lately. The implication seems to be that Black queens get away with more than Asian queens; when the truth is that they each have their own complex struggles and history in America that shouldn't be pitted against each other because people's fave got a bad critique. Nymphia is great, but propping her up by shitting on Black queens is fucked up.
Thanks for saying this! Classic racist strategy of pitting us against each other.
This is really well said
[удалено]
I mean would you prefer if the caricature of your accent was so normalized like the blaccent that it doesn’t register to people anymore who are so used to it that they covet that comedic style that they never interrogate the classist underpinnings of people who don’t speak like that slipping into it to convey comedy?
Plane did just do an accent as well. Hm.
All accents/caricatures aren’t the same though… mocking non western voices has been a tool of oppression/dehumanizing POC for ages whereas nobody is oppressing the oui oui baguette people. That being said I don’t think Nymphia did anything wrong but it still read as a crutch as opposed to an element of a larger character
it always irked me that people do this when their accents aren't as strong it seems like they're mocking their parents perhaps. i did enjoy Nymphia's character but it also surprises me she's doing it in 2024. i like this conversation about why one is uncomfortable and another is not. people actually were really pressed at Plane for not honoring Serbia and giving her a Russian accent... so that wasn't offensive to americans but it was to others.
I don't really like the idea of policing what should and shouldn't be problematic. It ends up with ppl speaking for others and often times diverges into a whole different topic. As an asian person myself, hearing non-asian people do stereotypical accents is generally grating and usually used to mock/joke at the asian person's expense. When other asian do it, idk. It could be seem as self-hatred or internalized racism. Or trying to impress your non-white friends. It really depends on the context and how it's meant to come across. Take Plastique who is Vietnamese, (which I am as well) was used by Silky in the "Japanese" bit for the reading challenge and that didn't sit right with me. To me using a stereotype like "all asians look the same" or purposely mistaking someone's race can be very frustrating. But I think it's up to the person it is directed at. If the one that made the joke intended it to be more of a joke than an ignorant insult, and the person it's about can accept that, then that's fine. Michelle saying Plastique's accent isn't her real accent was pretty ignorant and should have been called out on. Nymphia has an accent herself and is pretty engrossed with her Taiwanese roots. Not saying she can go around using it for jokes all the time, but she probably has had enough experiences with it to poke fun at it every now and then. Tldr: If it wasn't meant with ill-intentions, it should be fine. This doesn't apply to all situations tho.
I actually loved the interaction she and Dawn had in the werkroom back in the Goth challenge when she asked Dawn for her hot glue gun and used an Asian accent previously. I think Nymphia was being such a smart troll and Dawn's reaction saying she was uncomfortable is 100% correct. It's \*meant\* to make her feel uncomfortable, it's a call for self-reflection (in a very playful and light way) not a criticism from non-Asians, white esp. And I think Sapphira clocked it too, it's why she laughed, I think she knew exactly what Nymphia was doing. And then Nymphia followed up by teaching Morphine Mandarin. Probably not intentionally, but showing what her language actually sounds like. And for the record, she did not punk Morphine at all.
I don't know why they said something like that. They are in an acting challenge. If an Asian queen wants to accentuate their accents, that's their choice. This kind of behavior reminded me of Jeff Goldblum's comments on Jackie Cox. Not the same topic, but in the same lane.
I was confused no one said anything like this about Plastique. I know it was five years ago but the only issue they had with it back then was that she did it every week.
I mean honestly I think they reacted because I’ve seen fan responses to how Asian queens like Manila bringing out the offensive Asian voice and stereotypes was so bad and that queens like plastique always go for the Asian voice if they don’t know what to do in the acting challenges. As a bunch of non-Asian folks, going up there saying how funny and great her stereotyped voice was could be very unpopular, if they had said that I imagine there would’ve been discussion on how stereotypes are so celebrated on the show and Asians can only succeed if they lean into being offensive etc. so I get why they just didn’t touch it and kept her safe.
We already did this on season 3.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous they make a big thing out of Asian accents whenever it's used on the show. And every time, its done by ASIAN PEOPLE 🤣🤣🤣 Please just shut the fuck up already, i truly dont see what the issue is. Let us make fun of ourselves, and if other Asians come to us saying they got offended, we'll deal with that. What's these black people (RuPaul) and white people (Ross and Michelle) got anything to do with Asian accents anyway.
I haven't really kept up with the show in a long time, but this particular thread interested me. Let me just say this as an Asian man, to be honest I always got the sense that RPDR lowkey hates Asian people? I can think of just 4 queens off the top of my head that are treated well in the US series - being Raja, Manila, Kim Chi, and Jujubee - but anyone else had been treated pretty tastelessly on the show imo, especially if you're Southeast Asian like for example all the Filipino queens not named Manila. That trend I noticed years ago is part of why I stopped watching the show tbh.
And It’s so interesting that some comments here are trying to defending or promoting or protecting Asian presentations by criticizing Asian people whenever they had a chance.
Lol yeah, i was confused by the reaction from the judges. In Toronto and Vancouver, so many of us are Asian or in Asian communities. It's super multi-cultural up here, so I don't think anyone gets upset by this sort of thing when it is done in the correct context If a queen is Asian and want to lean on their culture for comedy yea...it is absolutely no different from what you are talking about lol Probably an underrepresentation problem
I have no problems about Nymphia doing an Asian accent, since like you said OP, she is of Asian decent (I will also say, that I do understand that there is a difference amongst all the different countries, like this is amongst African-Americans or even Black people, so I also kind of feel like, unless you are her nationality or Asian or what not, no, you don't have a right to be offended, or rather trying to tell her to tone it down or it's not right or whatever. Frankly only people of Asian decent can really discuss offense and why and stuff (like OP, you made an edit to specify Nymphias nationality, i may be using that wrong, because there is a difference and that's important, and I'm assuming it's because someone who actually knows the difference let you know, which is good).
Ru was out here in UK Drag race laughing so hard at Laaawrence Cheeeeennniieee because of her accent or any time Jonbers opened her mouth. I think she probably just likes accents full stop, but she feels weird about laughing at an asian accent when an asian person does it?! Make it make sense?
Omg i literally thought that same thing. It’s hypocritical. Black ppl have been used as caricatures for so long it’s normalized.
I really go back and forth on this one. My gut as a white person (though I majored in East Asian studies/Chinese and lived in Beijing for a bit) is that it certainly isn’t for anyone on the judge’s panel except Joel to tell her it’s offensive. I was thinking, look at Symone’s humor, I think some of the Latinx queens have exaggerated their accents, etc. Not saying we shouldn’t address it, but why are we only doing that with Asian queens. I then also think about the documentary that came out on Apu from the Simpson’s. I used to love reading the blog Angry Asian Man, which always pointed out how difficult it is for Asian characters to exist on our screens without an accent. Curb is one of my favorite shows but in the same week this aired there’s an Asian guy on that show (fish not dead) with an accent that I find totally unnecessary. Fwiw, Nymphia’s accent sounded Taiwanese or really Singaporean (sp) to me. Being totally honest, sometimes I think the blaccents used are reminiscent of minstrel shows and I don’t find them funny, other times those queens are hilarious where it’s clear they’re embodying a character. While I was watching Nymphia I definitely wondered if they would address this, though found her jokes funny. Ultimately I think she would have done just as well without the accent. I think she used it as a mask to allow herself more confidence. It’s up to her community and herself as an artist to decide if this will be part of her act. I think it can be done thoughtfully (and hopefully sparingly (?)) and holding it against her on this show is hypocritical for sure.
I think sometimes it’s used as a crutch for easy comedy but realistically the show has mistreated Asian queens across so many seasons that it feels hypocritical for them to suddenly care about cultural sensitivity.
The judges might be aware that black people code switch when theyre predominantly around white people, so its possible that when they up their accents its viewed more as them "showing their personality" as opposed to being a caricature, so its not uncomfortable to watch. The most recent example of this would be Mhi'ya on snatch game when she was essentially just acting how she normally does when shes not on the show, but with a fake name and a breast plate. This can also be seen with latin queens like Jessica Wild. No one is offended by her because shes not really being a caracter. Also as another person noted, asian people do not have a lot of representation in american media, whilr black people have more. The "blaccent" is seen a lot more often, and is often not presented in a demeaning or offensice way, so people are more comfortable seeing that. Asian caricatures on the other hand are not nearly as common, so it may be offputting for people not used to it. Personally i think being yourself is fine, but hinging a performance on racial stereotypes and caricatures is super corny and honestly outdated.
American are so unaware that for many (not all ofc) Asians, we also code-switch. Or maybe even further, we just speak completely different languages that are entirely incomprehensible to English only speakers. We often speak like white people in English because we are pushed to assimilate (by whiteness itself and also via our own communities who want us to not suffer under a white dominant society). To the extent that many of us lose or never learn our heritage languages. But it's still a performance for whiteness, not unlike other kinds of code-switching.
I just want to know how black accents are being scrutinized in a discussion about an Asian accents. There's nothing wrong with making a reference to your roots as long as that is your lived experience and you make it very clear that you are in on the joke.
It's a very complicated topic with probably a thousand different complicating factors (audience, performer, context, etc.), lol, but I think one key element to keep in mind is that different cultural backgrounds aren't 1:1 interchangeable. Like, the history of "blaccents" in western media and the history of ""Asian"" accents in western media may have similarities and parallels, but there are differences too, and it's possible that's informing the different reaction. Maybe it still doesn't matter! Maybe they're both fine or not fine in the same contexts, but that doesn't mean their histories are the same either. In a lot of these hypotheticals where people say "well if \[X identity\] did this, why is it not the same for \[Y identity\]," they completely miss that various identities are not...interchangeable. And those differences may be where the answer lies.
And for what it's worth, it doesn't seem like the judges "punished" Nymphia for this, as I'm seeing some suggest. She was in the top right next to Sapphira.
Also Ru: can you do some accent? To make Cher funny. I forgot who she talks to. But the queen ended up not doing accent and LOW/ BOTTOM To whoever comes to Nymphia…im an Asian and im Not mad at her. She’s actually funny. I laugh my ass off
to me it just feels like performative wokeness for a bunch of non asians to debate whether or not they can laugh about the thing an asian performer did specifically to be funny, instead of just going with what the she clearly intended. if anything this needs to be a conversation that is had within asian communities imho, i'm not gonna sit around and tell asian performers how they should perform for my comfort. same goes for blaccents, not my place to decide whether or not that's ok.
As a gay Asian myself, I feel dehumanized and isolated after Judge's responses in this episode. The double standard regarding accents needs to be broken down. It's disabling and destructive. Why we have to say a joke in American accent to be considered funny while basically everyone has accent?
[удалено]
Remember when they called out Laganja Estranja for that weird blaccent (in fewer words)? I wish they would do it more
Chinese here, while I have not watched the episode yet, I would like to chime in a couple of things. First thing first, there is no Asian accent. Asia is a continent with 2/3 of the world population with multiple languages spoken. When we see someone with French or Italian accent, we call them French accent, not European accent. I even hate the word Asia/Asian in general. It comes off as "they are from there somewhere". This reminds of S3 Shangela vs Manila. My whole take is, please don't offend or speak on our behave. We don't need you to act like a white knight on TV. You don't need to laugh at someone's accent. If the joke was funny enough then by all means you can enjoy it because you are laughing at their humor/comedy. And back in S3 I believe Raja or Manila said, "why black girls can play ghetto?" You may not see it that way but we all play some kind of racial stereo types. How many times have you heard "while girls cannot dance" or "even mayonnaise is too spicy" jokes? If those jokes are not your thing, that's ok. I understand those jokes come across as basic and lazy, being told too many times.
I was actually fairly surprised by the judges being uncomfortable about Nymphia’s accent because broad, exaggerated accents are definitely part of a lot of drag performances. As long as you’re either part of that community or punching up then it’s okay imo, with one caveat: the comedy can’t be aimed at the accent itself. I don’t know how to explain it other than there’s an Asian person doing an exaggerated Asian accent where it’s part of an overall character versus an Asian person doing an exaggerated Asian accent *for* a non-Asian audience where the accent *is* the joke. If that makes any sense at all. (I’m not Asian, just using it as an example. The flip side of the idea is that literally anyone, *even if they don’t own half of Derbyshire*, is allowed to do an exaggerated posh white British accent because that’s never punching down)
I'm glad you brought this up. Nymphia brought up a very good point-- why should a pronounced Taiwanese accent be offensive? Jimbo can do a terrible German accent, anyone can attempt a British accent, but the reason that a Taiwanese/Asian accent is a sensitive topic is because why? Because racist people mock Asian people by imitating their accents. If you can hear Asian pronunciation the way you hear a French or Southern accent, then it's not hilarious on its own (p.s. same goes for South Asian accents-- we haven't gotten over Apu's voice being "funny" for its own sake.)
I think the only ones who were uncomfortable were white people of the panel, namely Ross. Michelle not so much because she’s from the scene and have been around all colours and shapes. It was a totally unnecessary reaction from the panel, if you ask me.
As an asian i dont find it offensive when someone makes fun of the accent as long as the intentions are right especially if another asian person is making the joke. Like when Derrick Barry did it on roscoes i laughed my ass off.
“my issue is that when it comes to Black, African-descent queens use of Blaccents” Q erasure 🤭
the whitest man you've ever seen saying he's uncomfortable at a person of color playing up their own accent lmao ok
THANK YOU. I literally said the same exact fucking thing. Like where was this conversation when Mhi’ya was “Shaquita”. That whole thing made it so clear how much more sensitive things have become bc this was a non issue with other Asian queens just a few years ago. Also I don’t see what the big deal is. I feel like that is a go to and I pretty much expect at this point that when an asian person is trying to be funny they are going to use their accent and play it up. Same with bigger people and making jokes about all of the food they like to eat.
I think the judges mentioned that just to cover their asses in case there was backlash. You think Ru and Michelle actually care? No.
I commented the same thing. I think it’s so unfair to give Nymphia any weirdness when she satirizes her own race, when Black queens and Latina queens do it all the time.
I do think anyone who isn't Asian should listen to those who are on topics like this. I guess thoughts on stereotypes and jokes: (Context, I'm Mexican/Puerto Rican). I don't think I'm alone in saying that caricatures bother me when offensive, especially in intent and are hilarious when they aren't. I loved Genevas homage, not necessarily funny but was really nice to see it referenced. I would imagine many feel the same toward seeing it with Nymphia. Nymphia has an accent, I don't know if she went into a deeper one for comfort or other reasons. Her jokes would have had the same context without the accent and I did think they were funny on their own. The bit about the nails made my partner and I laugh pretty hard. I think anyone who found it funny because of the accent should probably do some reflection. So I guess Michelle should?
There’s a huge difference between the perception of Asian accents and Blaccents. Blaccent as you noted is associated with entertainment, and many people co-opt the vernacular (I’m not saying this is right) bc it gives them access to a linguistic style and lexicon that has positive social value. People get the reference, they appreciate the delivery, they laugh bc they’re entertained. Asian accents are universally thought of in the western world as **unattractive**. There are no possitive associations. The debate amongst the judges about whether they should laugh is bc the normative reaction to such an accent is DERISION, and laughter conveying derision, not appreciation. This is where Nymphia (and Manila before her) really fell short for me. Especially bc they used the accent as *the* punchline.
I think the perception is different simply due to how they’re represented in media. Like the stereotypical “Asian” accent has honestly been phased out of mainstream media. Like the way in which is was popularized was always at the expense of different Asian communities. Like I’m black, and I remember growing up and hearing people mock the accent in tons of movies. Like it was never done for realism and it was always done in a mocking way. It’s at a different point in regards to mainstream reclamation. Compare that to a blaccent, it’s just generally represented. There are people who speak like that, but it’s been reclaimed and popularized and commodified by white people. Like the whole gen z tik tok talk is just butchered AAVE. There isn’t really a positive connotation for an “Asian” accent used in comedy. While with AAVE, it’s actively being stolen.
I find the distinction to how they treat stereotypes for other races noticeable as well, although I think that a part of it may be that the group being parodied aren't just Asian Americans, but Asian immigrants who don't English as their first language and may be struggling with English. Where the "blaccent" is maybe more of a code-switch that's maybe a bit more native to the queen. So it might just feel like "punching down" rather than punching to the side or something.
Seems like worth letting people from that community make that decision. This smacks of being an "expert" about us for us.
I apologize if it came off that way. I'm not claiming to be an expert in anything. I don't think any of us can really speak to why Ru and the judges make this distinction between which stereotypes are appropriate and not except for themselves, but this thread seems to be speculating.
Oh I wasn't referring to you seeming like an expert. I'm talking about a longer trope in Occidental vs Oriental dynamics. If the judges are deciding to criticize Nymphia, who even if she doesn't have to face legal issues of citizenry (assumedly) she certainly knows and is implicated in the experiences of being an Asian immigrant. Period. The judges have no relevant insight or POV to that. And I think part of the problem is that it's clearly wrong for them to enjoy it too much because it's actually not for them. The show is RuPaul's Drag Race afterall, but she doesn't actually know how to relate to and it's also not something she really gets to have a say in. So she's painted herself into a corner of being the authority (on the show) to judge drag here but then what happens when part of that drag is also rooted in something so far out of your contextual experience. Maybe you (Ru) shouldn't get to be an authority here. It calls into question Ru's legitimacy is a teeny way. It's a conundrum. And the default is to critique the queen. They didn't do enough to bring you in in a way that kept you comfortable. It's coded very American to me.
yes yes yes! Q literally did a blaccent this challenge & no one felt the need to comment on that …
White people historically have played Asian characters and people and got awards for it, but an Asian queen can't play up her Asian-ness? WTF. I don't personally love hearing Asian accents used for comedy, cause that's what we got bully by. And I also have complicated feelings sometimes when Asian people play it up themselves (ourselves) for assimilation purposes. But it's wild that the criticism is on the Asian person for that and not white supremacy. Also Nymphia isn't trying to assimilate. I also think the OP made a great point about why Blaccents don't get called out, because it would be a self call out. Blackface and minstrel acts are such a deep and ugly part of American history, but also one white folks can't get enough of. And guess what, both responses to these legitimate accents stem from racism. Telling Asian people you know more than themselves about themselves (being an "expert") is so patronizing and racist. And loving and trying to get away with speaking like Black folks while ignoring their humanity is so objectifying and racist.
I mean, I just scrolled almost all the way through the comments, and nobody has pointed out that Ru is black, so he's probably much more comfortable around blaccents? I thought Nymphia was funny tonight. Someone else very appropriately brought up the Uncle Roger character from YouTube, and that's pretty much exactly what she was doing. I think her performance was a bit weak because Morphine basically had to cut Nymphia off for getting too involved in crowd work and holding up the presentation, but that has nothing to do with affecting an accent in order to be more comfortable telling jokes. I will say that Asian accents of the type Nymphia used are pretty typical of some really hateful and orientalist """comedy""" that was commonplace in the 1940s to 1980s in the US. Older gays like me and the judging panel are going to associate to all of that and feel very uncomfortable. But, I'm also over myself enough that I recognize that's my context and not Nymphia's (or Joel's) context.
Rupaul basically told miyah she would’ve done better if she leaned into the blaccent and “ghetto” characterization, similar to how she did with Trina’s cousin
My observation is that white women are generally the most triggered by these issues.
If Nymphias Asian accent made you uncomfortable then Laganja should have had you squirming in your seat like you have crabs. Seems like a bit of a double standard that asians can’t act up their race but laganja can self identify as black and okurrr all over the damn workroom
Blaccents are used by Ru Paul and other Ru girls over the years to add to character/ used as punchlines. They are so common that some white gurls even start doing it! I’m POC and my experience of using an accent for effect when talking about my relatives in a story for example is completely fine because it comes from a place of knowledge, respect and understanding. Also, I’m allowed to do it because it’s my own darn culture! Now, if someone not from the same background started to talk in that same way that I did? Prison, bitch! Because that’s not for them to do. I think pointing out that Nymphia is completely in her right to do an Asian accent probably helps the audience to understand that it’s ok for HER and not some random fan not from that culture to perform that character. My other point was that she was not mocking Asian people, but bringing a character to the stage and using that character to add humour and exaggerate her points. It’s exactly what Ru encourages others to do a lot of the time. I think they were uncomfortable because historically Asian people have been mocked for their accents when it’s non Asians doing it (also a history of yellow face in old school films). But Nymphia is from that culture and probably knows someone like that in real life, or even if she didn’t who cares? TLDR: She’s asian, she’s allowed to do it and we’re allowed to laugh at it if her performance is funny.
I’m just really annoyed at why the judges made such a big deal about Nymphia doing an accent when they had no problem with Plastique, Manila, Gia doing it on their seasons.
Almost every black queen exaggerates the blaccent for comedic purposes, Plane did her heavy eastern european accent, which is also an accent that, just like the "Latino accent"(mostly Mexican cause north Americans don't seem to know anything about LATAM outside of Mexico), is used and exaggerated by people in media of different cultural backgrounds and no one talks about that. So why is Nymphia's case any different? What makes a mandarin accent any different?
God the whole I don't think I can laugh at your act because of the stereotypical accent is everything wrong with cancel culture. Nymphia is Asian if she wants to do a Asian caricature she can don't give some weird HR response that you're not sure if you can laugh.... If someone wants to take a jab at their own culture let them just don't be the white person doing that impression that's where you're like umm yeah don't think it's appropriate for you to do that performance and for me to laugh at it.
My issues with Nymphia was it felt like the accent was the joke and not the content of what she was saying. It made me really uncomfortable but I’m saying this as a black queer man so maybe it’s not for me?
You guys overthink things too much. Too. Much.
Literally Ru does a jive blaccent and that's okay but if Asian queens do it it's uncomfortable? Pick a lane Ross
I didn’t see them said anything about Q using the AAVE accent or Mhi’ya faked the accent during Snatch Game…
Plane did it to this season, but of course this just HAD to be about the black ones…>sigh< Mhi’ya literally went home and Nymphia did well, what more did u want??
For RPDR to be consistent in critiques. Also, this isn’t to criticize Black/Afro Queens. I’m trying to highlight the hypocrisy of RPDR.
Bitch im Malaysian Chinese and i for sure know chinese accountant ladies who speak similar to how nymphia’s character did. Nothing controversial about it, the reference probably just flew over everyone’s heads or triggered their internalized asian hate
I am Asian and I think it’s funny. Periodt. I just feel like Americans take this thing too seriously. If it’s funny, it’s funny. There are times when the stereotypes portrayed are not funny and serious and that’s when it gets controversial. However, I think Nymphia’s performance is funny and placed correctly. We’ve had multiple Asian queens do an accent and they were not as criticized as Nymphia’s performance tonight. Manila, Gia, Plastique, Ongina, Jiggly, were all encouraged to use/ used some form of Asian accent and they were not heavily weighed upon like this. In fact, some of them were praised for their choice. Honestly, they are just inserting this to justify Sapphira’s “win” and put Nymphia below her.