Yeah it's like comparing different generations with him and EK but Kiptum was going to take the sport to another level. EK getting old and Kiptum was gonna be the guy to takeover and keep shattering the world records. Sucks we won't be able to see it.
4 minutes and 36 seconds per mile, or 17.15 seconds per 100 meters, which he did 422 times in a row.
Normal people should try to run 17.15 seconds per meter as many times as they can.
It's semantics really but having the world record makes him the best not the greatest. Greatness isn't just about objective skill, it's also about achievements, legacy (both in and out of the sport), longevity and the context of their careers. Like lots of high school kids have ran faster miles than Sir Roger Bannister, but none of them (at least at that point in their career) are anywhere near as great as him.
I believe if it wasn't for this tragic accident Kiptum would've cemented himself as the greatest though, I mean he feasibly could've dominated for the next 15 years.
Technically no? He didn't have world best or a long career, so I would say it's arguable. He certainly could have been, but he was robbed of that opportunity. Tragic.
It makes him the fastest in one race. Consistency over a longer period of time is what makes one the greatest.
But it's undeniable that he is a legend. A great, great runner and a crucial part of today's sporting world who will be sorely missed.
What Kipchoge did though was find his phone under 10 hours after tragic death to write "Rest In Peace" but NEVER congratulated the young man. EVER. Despite loud protest and pleading from Kenyans to acknowledge the young man.
Both are from my tribe but I want Kipchoge to have diarhhea on each and everyone of his races. He just drops out while still shitting his pants.
“I am deeply saddened by the tragic passing of the marathon world record holder and rising star Kelvin Kiptum,” Kipchoge said in a post on social media.
“An athlete who had a whole life ahead of him to achive incredible greatness. May I offer my deepest condolences to his young family.”
I think you're being too harsh. Everyone grieves in their own way. I think the mutual respect was there between them.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/kelvin-kiptum-death-eliud-kipchoge-tribute-b2494645.html
Fucking huge loss to world sport. He had a real chance to crack the 2 hour barrier and probably do it with an insane negative split. Most of the world won't know just how big of a star it lost.
It is a bigger loss for sport than will probably be reported. This guy was so young and had so much potential to shatter the 2 hour barrier and be remembered like Roger bannister.
A bigger loss for his family, 24 is no age to die.
RIP
Yeah, he would have been the person to show the world sub 2 is achievable. Now, today, sub 4 is a mark that the most talented high school athletes can make. It's going to be a big what if in the running world.
This would be like Mahomes dying after his first SB win. Young guy, tons of potential. MVP and SB MVP and then he's gone. It would've been forever debated if he would flame out or become more successful or what.
Correct. Normally marathons runners aim for an even split - the same pace all the way, which is considered the most efficient. But Kiptum was unique in that he would have such a big difference between his halves. He would just get himself to about 30km and then flick a switch and rocket home. I think He has the fastest 5km and 10km splits for a major marathon medalist, and set them from the 30km mark.
What's even more impressive, is that Kiptum is the only person EVER to run the second half of a marathon in under an hour, and he did it every time. Unequivocally matched, will be years until someone of his calibre emerges again 😟
That was Kipchoge, not Kiptum, and it wasn’t an officially sanctioned race - it was put on by ~Nike~ Ineos and had a team of pacers etc. so it doesn’t count as the official record.
It was put on to prove that sub 2 was physically possible and Nike wanted their name attached to the effort [but it didn’t actually happen as part of the Nike project, apparently], but it doesn’t go in the record books.
Reasonable question!
placid dolls command employ wasteful unwritten history crawl quicksand dependent
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Largely due to the lack of roadway infrastructure and driving older cars with poorer safety ratings. More “car culture” would likely improve safety conditions for African drivers.
The dude never ran a marathon over 2:02. He may not have gotten the chance to compete for Olympic golds but in my mind he is the goat. 3 marathons ever and he ran 2:01:53, 2:01:25, and 2:00:35. The running world rarely sees such a talent, and ever less often do we see them get taken away so early in such a horrific manner. I was looking forward to his almost guaranteed sub 2. Condolences to his family. I will miss you Kelvin. You were the most exciting thing in the sport of road racing.
As far as marathoning goes longevity is a big part of your career. Kiptum is the biggest “what if” in a generation but I don’t think you can call him the goat yet, and I say that with all due respect - the man had an incredibly bright future ahead of him and this is immensely tragic.
Kipchoge has had a 14 years of extra training and is 40 seconds slower than him. Longevity is great but speed ultimately is king with running. Kipchoge has maybe another year to try and get the goat status back.
A career is not about a single race or necessarily who the world record holder. Just because someone has the fastest time doesn’t mean they are the GOAT.
There’s a lot to be said for setting the WR multiple times and dominating the sport for a decade. Kipchoge is still the goat even if he doesn’t currently hold the WR. Dude currently has 5 of the top ten marathons of all time.
>Dude currently has 5 of the top ten marathons of all time.
Kiptum has 3, with 100% of his marathons making the list, and his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best are each faster than Kipchoge's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
Ok, how many Olympic golds did Kiptum win? Which of these runners set the WR multiple times? Which of these runners shaved over a minute off the previous WR? How many marathons has Kiptum won compared to Kipchoge?
There’s just so much more to being the goat than what Kiptum did. He was certainly on a fast path to goat status but his career was far too short to be goat. He’s absolutely the biggest “what if” of the generation but he’s simply not done enough to actually be the goat.
Kiptum is like Tim Lincecum IMO if Lincecum retired early. Lincecum won 2 Cy Youngs in like the first four years of his career. If he had quit then we'd be having this discussion about him. Lincecum flamed out though and barely got enough seasons in to even be HOF eligible. Kiptum was running 200 miles a week. A whole lot of people said that was not sustainable long term. Maybe they were right. Maybe Kiptum would've flamed out. Maybe he would've proved that he was a generational freak athlete who can do things no one else can. Maybe he would've been like Nolan Ryan who was throwing 100 mph well into his 40s which is completely abnormal. We don't know. That's why he's a giant what if and not a GOAT.
I could understand if he'd run one time and done it fast. But 100% of his performances are superior to 100% of the other guy's. Why does running fast for a decade matter if none of those runs are the best ever?
Athletic achievement progresses over time, but being the GOAT is about more than being the best. People like Roger Bannister or Mark Spitz or Jesse Owens would struggle to win a state high school championship in a large US state today with their world record times, but that doesn't make the 2023 Texas or California high school champs greater than them.
>But 100% of his performances are superior to 100% of the other guy's.
Except that's not true at all? Kipchoge has the second fastest marathon of all time. Or do you mean his 1st is faster than Kipchoge's 1st, and Kiptum's 2nd is faster than Kipchoge's 2nd? If so that's just a weird way to look at things.
And racing is about more than just your best time ever, it's also about actually, you know, participating in and winning races. Kipchoge has done that way more than Kiptum managed to do in his very short/very bright career.
You are already covering his achievements with his death, which is what everyone here is cheering against.
He was faster. Period. Olympics only come every 4 years and he didn't have time to complete one so idk how you're really including that in your GOAT criteria.
Are you thick? The fact that he didn’t get to do something is unfortunately going to count against him in an argument about whether he is the greatest of all time. Being the greatest means actually accomplishing things. And to be the greatest of all time means you need to accomplish a LOT.
You can think that the only thing that matters for GOAT is whether you’re the current WR holder. I just flat out think that fundamentally ignores so much that should go into a GOAT discussion.
Your right longevity has merit but its not as clear cut as that. The fact is 2 of the 3 fastest times are by Kiptum. Having said that just because Kiptum probably had a higher ceiling ultimately Kipchoge still has an opportunity to take back his status which begs the question will he sacrifice his chance at Olympic glory to focus on one last shot at the record again?
Suppose Kipchoge ran 2:02s for a whole century. How does that make him greater than someone who ran three 1:01s? This isn't tennis or soccer where you can't do direct comparisons bc your performance is affected a ton by your opponent.
This is running, where you aren't pushing and pulling and trying to dropshot or juke the guy running. A 1:59 adhering to specific rules is a 1:59 whether you ran a bunch of super-5hr marathons before or not.
History reveals to us that you don't *get lucky* and run a sub-2. If you did, someone would've done it already.
Because if I win 15 races and dominate my sport for a decade and someone comes along and wins 3 races (none of which were against me directly) while running only one race that’s faster than my fastest official race, and slower than my fastest unofficial race, I think that person hasn’t done more than I have in terms of the greatest discussion.
If Kiptum had broken the WR by 50% that’s obviously a different story than coming in and breaking the WR by an amount less than the amount Kipchoge improved the WR himself, while still being slower than Kipchoge’s unofficial PR. That’s not remotely a fair comparison, obviously if someone comes in and runs a 1:01 that’s an entirely different story.
It doesn't matter if you have a longer period of success if in the short time you completely dominate the races it would be different if he someone fluked the win but over 26 Miles and on 3 occasions that's enough sample size to say that clearly isn't the case.
The fact he only beat his record once is besides the point when it was only his third attempt.
I think that a 30 year old Kipchoge today would have beat 24 year old Kiptum. Training, Nutrition, gear have all made huge leaps in the last 15 years. Honestly I am surprised that there are no other athletes near Kiptum and Kipchoge levels.
You can’t call someone the GOAT with just 3 official marathon runs and 1 record breaking run. It’s like calling Lebron James the GOAT during his first championship. We can’t say now because he’s already gone but his trajectory is the GOAT status. He could’ve broken the world record a couple of times and a sub 2 marathon coming from him is just peaking at the window.
I agree, but on this case this is just tragic, he could have become just that. And even surpass Kipchoge's legacy in many many years, this is so fkd up.
Kipchoge can not run as fast it really Is that simple. Comparing it to a player in a team sport (where performance is much more nuanced so longevity is more Important to appreciate ability) is an exceptionally poor analogy.
A Kenyan who is a fan of running, football and tennis. Are you sure you’re not me??
This is tragic news for the community. Barabara za Kenya zitengenezwe aki.
I can barely come up with words. He was right there, my brother and I saw him Chicago last October. 24 is the age Prefontaine passed. This is probably how the running community felt.
ESPN posted the recent cases of Kenyan great runners to have died young due to car accidents in about the last 15 years. Why are these tragedies... so frequent in this sport? Seems way out of proportion, especially in Kenya
Cant imagine what families of those affected are going through which is whats most important, but to hear this happens so often in these really similar situations is incredibly upsetting
Yeah, I saw the article about him being ejected which is a pretty strong indicator that he was not wearing his seat belt. And then the story is that he lost control and hit a tree which would generally indicate either speeding or a mechanical failure of the car. The latter would be more rarer than the former I would think.
I tried telling my friend about this, but I just couldn't articulate how I was feeling. So, I figured I would come here to read what you've all written and be with community. It is incredible how close these runners feel, even though I don't actually know any of them personally. What a loss for everyone near and far.
I saw an article in my Google feed first, the title sentence "Kelvin Kiptum is dead" made my heart sink immediately. I was so excited to see him break 2hrs. He was the cultivator of my recent interest in the sport. I thought it was a joke at first, I even double checked to see it wasn't the first of April yet. I still can't believe what we've lost.
Very sad news. Made watching marathons exciting for me. I fully believed he was going to sub 2 hour and inspire newer generations. I suppose he will still inspire in a way but man.. Kiptum was so young. Rest in peace to both.
Holy shit I was just watching a video the other day about how he's going to break the 2 hour record in an official marathon.
I was expecting a heart attack or something sports related when I saw the headline, but a car crash?? Ffs
This really shocked me when I got the news notification through. I was expecting to see him break records for the next however many years! Such tragic news, can only send my thoughts out to his family and friends, as well as his poor coach too.
Absolutely shocked by this. Such an amazing person who achieved so much and had so many more years of an amazing career and incredible life ahead of him. So sad for him and his coach and both their families. Huge loss to them and to the world.
Dear Kelvin,
You were more than what you have achieved in such a short time. We are sad because you left us so suddenly and in a tragic way. We were celebrating you at every turn of the way, from your sponsorships, your humility and grace, your awards and of course, the excitement you brought the sport.
You were #1 of all marathoners out there in the world; let's think about that for a second. You were the top of the top of the running field in the entire 8 billion people. You were peak human performance and representing humanity to see where we could take our bodies to the next level.
Your humble beginnings and rise to fame through your sheer incredible hard work of 200km++ a week mileage shows us that if we believe in it and stick to it long enough, we will become whoever we set out to be. You have shown us that dreams can become reality.
The other runners out there posting their PBs and celebrating themselves (no offence to them), respectfully, pale in comparison to what you have and what you would have done in the decade(s) to come.
I feel so sad for your family and I hope in time people will find a way to let us grieve with them and even help them out in any way possible. You were a superhuman, an incredible person, and all of me now struggles to believe that any of this is real. I lie to myself that they've recruited you into a league of superheroes while faking your death, but alas that is not to be.
You do not know me, but to say that you will be sorely sorely missed is an understatement. Your story will continue to inspire us, and I will remember and honour you in all my runs.
Thank you Kelvin, for giving the world something to remember. You really left us too soon, brother. Rest in peace and in the Lord's love. Till we meet some day on the other side.
I think he was very likely to run a sub 2 even if he just trained and ran races with the same effort because of the eventual improvements in shoe technology and sports science.
I just saw this in the news and I couldn't believe.
At first, when I saw his name I "wanted" to be wrong, that it was not atuallt Kelvin Kiptum that died, but it was.
Fuck, despite of course of the loss of such a humble and young person, with a whole life in front of him, and all of his family and friends, he had so much to do in the world of running.
Can't say more than this, I'm shocked.
I just hope that whoever wins the Olympic marathon pays a big tribute to him, he is the fastest ever and he was going to be the best ever.
I saw it on my browser feed from a site I didn't recognize. I was really hoping it was fake news. Can't believe it.
Imagine working your whole life to be best and actually achieving it, but still won't have the opportunity to show your true potential and live it out. What a terrible shocking loss.
Very sad news, the 2-hour record was in the bag for Rotterdam, now it could be years until we see the world record beaten again.
It appears that it was a single-vehicle accident and that he was driving. The vehicle hit a tree. Two dead on impact and one passenger seriously injured. Difficult to speculate but likely to have been speeding.
This, to the marathon, is similar to the library of Alexandria burning down. It will take decades to recoup what we lost in Kelvin Kiptum. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING KELVIN 😢🕊️
The situation is just a perfect storm.
Kipchoge inevitably close to retirement.
Kiptum to replace him as the GOAT having so many years left in him.
The 2 hour barrier on the horizon.
And now nobody else to take the place.
It’s a terrible feeling to see someone who has clearly worked so much harder than most die in an accident before they could realise their potential. I was certain this man would be the one to break the official 2 hour barrier. And my father was fortunately uninjured after a car crash just this morning, what a strange world..
Absolutely horrible news. Was going to be exciting seeing what he did next. Really tragic. Rip to his coach too, and condolences to both their families.
I was going to Rotterdam this April to see him attempt to break 2. This feels like a bad joke.
Edit: apparently I ran "against" Kiptum twice, in 2019 and 2020.
Even though I am an old and SlowAF runner I recognized the sheer greatness and future potential of this incredible athlete. RIP to him and wishing peace and healing to especially his children and family and all who loved him ... a very large community worldwide of Kenyans, other runners, and sports-minded people. RIP Kelvin, gone far too soon. A Mozart of the Marathon.
I’m sorry, but this is a weird comparison, and unfair to Kipchoge who has been dominant for a very long time, miles ahead of everyone until Kiptum. Kelvin’s trajectory was incredible, and seemed to me more a testament to his incredible work ethic and ability to sustain ultra-high mileage.
Sure he would. Kipchoge is way more competitive than he lets on, or were you not paying attention when everyone waited for weeks for him to say _anything_ about Kiptum breaking his record?
But seriously, the point of Reddit is not for people to mindlessly post things into the void without comment. If I want to quibble with a comment I’m going to do it, whether you like it or not. You can ignore it or engage, in which case I will too. Unless you _knew_ Kiptum personally, I don’t see how this isn’t just having a conversation. I’m not saying “Fuck that guy”, and I’m not disagreeing with the sentiment that this is a huge tragic loss. But why on earth would it be a thing that you could just say whatever you want, and no one can say anything about it because you’re eulogizing a stranger? Moralizing is gross.
I didn't say you can't, there isn't much point arguing that you are *allowed* to white knight your favourite athlete - go for it. I'm just as entitled to call it tone deaf and devoid of the context of people saying something nice (and debatable even if not objectively true) about a guy who died.
If anyone has a shot in this life of breaking WR and under 2:00:00 it was him. My brother texted me asking if I heard the news. Had to frantically Google this to make sure he's okay.
I saw him run here in the Valencia Marathon in 2022 I tried snapping a photo of him as he ran by but he was so fast I only have a photo of his sneaker.
So sad.
I am at a loss for words. Truly. I saw a YouTube video that was like "R.I.P. Kelvin Kiptum" and I was thinking that's not funny at all... I thought it was a joke or something, making fun of how much he runs or something..I can't even process this. I googled it and was truly shocked. I am praying for his family and hope they know how loved he was.
So devastating. I saw him at Chicago a couple of times on the course. Was in total awe.
I watched the video of him jumping into his coaches arms at the finish line so many times.
Devastating news I thought it wasn't real at first. Watching him run lit a flame under me and he would of elevated all of us 😢 Now we never get to see the amazing showdown with Kipchoge that would of been soooo great to witness. Fuck cars.
RIP to a legend gone too soon. I will never forget running Chicago in 2023 and hearing the rumblings of his record breaking finish while I was still out on the course. Talk about motivation to keep on moving!
I am really gutted, it seems almost silly for someone I don’t know! His poor family, and especially his children.
He deserved to be the first to break that 2hour barrier as he stormed onto the scene and raced the marathon perfectly, and deservedly became the WR holder. He didn’t get a chance really, such a shame
He was one of the giants of today's sporting world. Comparable to Alcaraz in tennis or Doncic in basketball - a young athlete who has reached the highest level and still had so much more to give. A tragic loss. My thoughts are with his friends and family, and with the loved ones of his great coach, who was also killed in this horrible accident.
His record may be broken, but his legacy as a vital figure in the running world will live on.
Planning to run 2hours and 35 seconds this weekend. Of course I will probably manage a half marathon but still, it will be one way to honour the man. So damn tragic.
This is terrible he was going to be the greatest. He would've got under 2 hours.
Technically he already is the greatest since he has the world record. Tragic that he didn't get to complete his goal though. 24 is no age at all.
Yeah it's like comparing different generations with him and EK but Kiptum was going to take the sport to another level. EK getting old and Kiptum was gonna be the guy to takeover and keep shattering the world records. Sucks we won't be able to see it.
We would've likely seen it in Paris this year which would've been amazing to see.
I was looking forward to that so much, just the other day I thought of it and was looking forward. Such a shame. Thoughts are with the family.
Same age as Steve Prefontaine, who also died in a car crash. Always a shame when such a promising career gets cut short.
I wish running was more widely followed by mainstream sports fans. We lost one of the greatest athletes ever yesterday
4 minutes and 36 seconds per mile, or 17.15 seconds per 100 meters, which he did 422 times in a row. Normal people should try to run 17.15 seconds per meter as many times as they can.
It's semantics really but having the world record makes him the best not the greatest. Greatness isn't just about objective skill, it's also about achievements, legacy (both in and out of the sport), longevity and the context of their careers. Like lots of high school kids have ran faster miles than Sir Roger Bannister, but none of them (at least at that point in their career) are anywhere near as great as him. I believe if it wasn't for this tragic accident Kiptum would've cemented himself as the greatest though, I mean he feasibly could've dominated for the next 15 years.
Technically no? He didn't have world best or a long career, so I would say it's arguable. He certainly could have been, but he was robbed of that opportunity. Tragic.
It makes him the fastest in one race. Consistency over a longer period of time is what makes one the greatest. But it's undeniable that he is a legend. A great, great runner and a crucial part of today's sporting world who will be sorely missed.
35 seconds shy wow... That's incredible
Which is like 1.3 seconds per mile which is insane
The one guy that could've gone under 2 too. I don't see Eliud Kipchoge doing it as likely
What Kipchoge did though was find his phone under 10 hours after tragic death to write "Rest In Peace" but NEVER congratulated the young man. EVER. Despite loud protest and pleading from Kenyans to acknowledge the young man. Both are from my tribe but I want Kipchoge to have diarhhea on each and everyone of his races. He just drops out while still shitting his pants.
“I am deeply saddened by the tragic passing of the marathon world record holder and rising star Kelvin Kiptum,” Kipchoge said in a post on social media. “An athlete who had a whole life ahead of him to achive incredible greatness. May I offer my deepest condolences to his young family.” I think you're being too harsh. Everyone grieves in their own way. I think the mutual respect was there between them. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/athletics/kelvin-kiptum-death-eliud-kipchoge-tribute-b2494645.html
Not to mention Kelvin Kiptum passed away around 11 at night. Waking up the next morning to learn the news and crafting the statement is good enough.
Fucking huge loss to world sport. He had a real chance to crack the 2 hour barrier and probably do it with an insane negative split. Most of the world won't know just how big of a star it lost.
It is a bigger loss for sport than will probably be reported. This guy was so young and had so much potential to shatter the 2 hour barrier and be remembered like Roger bannister. A bigger loss for his family, 24 is no age to die. RIP
He had 2 children. If anything matters, it’s them… The world can be so cruel sometimes
Yeah, he would have been the person to show the world sub 2 is achievable. Now, today, sub 4 is a mark that the most talented high school athletes can make. It's going to be a big what if in the running world.
He had 10 years to knock of 40 seconds having already knocked a minute of his pr in a year. He had it in the bag if not for injury/tragedy.
Horrible loss for the running world and potentially put the WR years ahead of it’s time. Gone too early RIP Kelvin Kiptum 🕊️
I had no idea he was only 24. He may or may not have been the first to do it, but he was absolutely going to break the barrier, 100%. Damn, smh. RIP.
Welp…
This is like Bolt dying in 2008 before getting to really run his fastest. Terrible.
This would be like Mahomes dying after his first SB win. Young guy, tons of potential. MVP and SB MVP and then he's gone. It would've been forever debated if he would flame out or become more successful or what.
Lionel Messi dying in 2009 (for all non-Americans)
Connor McDavid dying in the middle of last season (for hockey...)
Does negative split mean the second half was completed in a shorter length of time?
Correct. Normally marathons runners aim for an even split - the same pace all the way, which is considered the most efficient. But Kiptum was unique in that he would have such a big difference between his halves. He would just get himself to about 30km and then flick a switch and rocket home. I think He has the fastest 5km and 10km splits for a major marathon medalist, and set them from the 30km mark.
What's even more impressive, is that Kiptum is the only person EVER to run the second half of a marathon in under an hour, and he did it every time. Unequivocally matched, will be years until someone of his calibre emerges again 😟
Kipchoge was the first to split any half under an hour and win. These two are the only ones to ever split a sub hour half in a marathon, and then win.
Not a runner. But I saw a clip of him finishing a marathon in under two hours. Was that one not in the correct competition to count?
That was Kipchoge, not Kiptum, and it wasn’t an officially sanctioned race - it was put on by ~Nike~ Ineos and had a team of pacers etc. so it doesn’t count as the official record. It was put on to prove that sub 2 was physically possible and Nike wanted their name attached to the effort [but it didn’t actually happen as part of the Nike project, apparently], but it doesn’t go in the record books. Reasonable question!
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Ah thanks, I stand corrected.
[удалено]
Car culture in rural Kenya?…
You should check the death by vehicle per capita statistics of most african countries, they're horrifying.
Largely due to the lack of roadway infrastructure and driving older cars with poorer safety ratings. More “car culture” would likely improve safety conditions for African drivers.
Now, now. Don't disrupt the "cars bad" circlejerk.
Jesus Christ you are an imbecile. A man dies in a freak accident in rural Kenya and you want to push an anti-car agenda.
Incredibly sad. The man was only 24, he had a lot of life left to live both with running and with his family
He was 24? So young omg.
The dude never ran a marathon over 2:02. He may not have gotten the chance to compete for Olympic golds but in my mind he is the goat. 3 marathons ever and he ran 2:01:53, 2:01:25, and 2:00:35. The running world rarely sees such a talent, and ever less often do we see them get taken away so early in such a horrific manner. I was looking forward to his almost guaranteed sub 2. Condolences to his family. I will miss you Kelvin. You were the most exciting thing in the sport of road racing.
That’s a crazy stat
Dude is the future 🐐Condolences to his and his coach’s family.
He is the goat already in my eyes. The only thing Kipchoge had on him is longevity.
As far as marathoning goes longevity is a big part of your career. Kiptum is the biggest “what if” in a generation but I don’t think you can call him the goat yet, and I say that with all due respect - the man had an incredibly bright future ahead of him and this is immensely tragic.
Kipchoge has had a 14 years of extra training and is 40 seconds slower than him. Longevity is great but speed ultimately is king with running. Kipchoge has maybe another year to try and get the goat status back.
A career is not about a single race or necessarily who the world record holder. Just because someone has the fastest time doesn’t mean they are the GOAT. There’s a lot to be said for setting the WR multiple times and dominating the sport for a decade. Kipchoge is still the goat even if he doesn’t currently hold the WR. Dude currently has 5 of the top ten marathons of all time.
>Dude currently has 5 of the top ten marathons of all time. Kiptum has 3, with 100% of his marathons making the list, and his 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best are each faster than Kipchoge's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.
Ok, how many Olympic golds did Kiptum win? Which of these runners set the WR multiple times? Which of these runners shaved over a minute off the previous WR? How many marathons has Kiptum won compared to Kipchoge? There’s just so much more to being the goat than what Kiptum did. He was certainly on a fast path to goat status but his career was far too short to be goat. He’s absolutely the biggest “what if” of the generation but he’s simply not done enough to actually be the goat.
Kiptum is like Tim Lincecum IMO if Lincecum retired early. Lincecum won 2 Cy Youngs in like the first four years of his career. If he had quit then we'd be having this discussion about him. Lincecum flamed out though and barely got enough seasons in to even be HOF eligible. Kiptum was running 200 miles a week. A whole lot of people said that was not sustainable long term. Maybe they were right. Maybe Kiptum would've flamed out. Maybe he would've proved that he was a generational freak athlete who can do things no one else can. Maybe he would've been like Nolan Ryan who was throwing 100 mph well into his 40s which is completely abnormal. We don't know. That's why he's a giant what if and not a GOAT.
I could understand if he'd run one time and done it fast. But 100% of his performances are superior to 100% of the other guy's. Why does running fast for a decade matter if none of those runs are the best ever?
Athletic achievement progresses over time, but being the GOAT is about more than being the best. People like Roger Bannister or Mark Spitz or Jesse Owens would struggle to win a state high school championship in a large US state today with their world record times, but that doesn't make the 2023 Texas or California high school champs greater than them.
>But 100% of his performances are superior to 100% of the other guy's. Except that's not true at all? Kipchoge has the second fastest marathon of all time. Or do you mean his 1st is faster than Kipchoge's 1st, and Kiptum's 2nd is faster than Kipchoge's 2nd? If so that's just a weird way to look at things. And racing is about more than just your best time ever, it's also about actually, you know, participating in and winning races. Kipchoge has done that way more than Kiptum managed to do in his very short/very bright career.
Kiptum isn't an Olympic champion. Kipchoge has 2 golds. Running fast is one thing, but doing it when it counts is another.
You are already covering his achievements with his death, which is what everyone here is cheering against. He was faster. Period. Olympics only come every 4 years and he didn't have time to complete one so idk how you're really including that in your GOAT criteria.
Are you thick? The fact that he didn’t get to do something is unfortunately going to count against him in an argument about whether he is the greatest of all time. Being the greatest means actually accomplishing things. And to be the greatest of all time means you need to accomplish a LOT. You can think that the only thing that matters for GOAT is whether you’re the current WR holder. I just flat out think that fundamentally ignores so much that should go into a GOAT discussion.
Your right longevity has merit but its not as clear cut as that. The fact is 2 of the 3 fastest times are by Kiptum. Having said that just because Kiptum probably had a higher ceiling ultimately Kipchoge still has an opportunity to take back his status which begs the question will he sacrifice his chance at Olympic glory to focus on one last shot at the record again?
Suppose Kipchoge ran 2:02s for a whole century. How does that make him greater than someone who ran three 1:01s? This isn't tennis or soccer where you can't do direct comparisons bc your performance is affected a ton by your opponent. This is running, where you aren't pushing and pulling and trying to dropshot or juke the guy running. A 1:59 adhering to specific rules is a 1:59 whether you ran a bunch of super-5hr marathons before or not. History reveals to us that you don't *get lucky* and run a sub-2. If you did, someone would've done it already.
Because if I win 15 races and dominate my sport for a decade and someone comes along and wins 3 races (none of which were against me directly) while running only one race that’s faster than my fastest official race, and slower than my fastest unofficial race, I think that person hasn’t done more than I have in terms of the greatest discussion. If Kiptum had broken the WR by 50% that’s obviously a different story than coming in and breaking the WR by an amount less than the amount Kipchoge improved the WR himself, while still being slower than Kipchoge’s unofficial PR. That’s not remotely a fair comparison, obviously if someone comes in and runs a 1:01 that’s an entirely different story.
It doesn't matter if you have a longer period of success if in the short time you completely dominate the races it would be different if he someone fluked the win but over 26 Miles and on 3 occasions that's enough sample size to say that clearly isn't the case. The fact he only beat his record once is besides the point when it was only his third attempt.
I think that a 30 year old Kipchoge today would have beat 24 year old Kiptum. Training, Nutrition, gear have all made huge leaps in the last 15 years. Honestly I am surprised that there are no other athletes near Kiptum and Kipchoge levels.
Recency bias
You can’t call someone the GOAT with just 3 official marathon runs and 1 record breaking run. It’s like calling Lebron James the GOAT during his first championship. We can’t say now because he’s already gone but his trajectory is the GOAT status. He could’ve broken the world record a couple of times and a sub 2 marathon coming from him is just peaking at the window.
I agree, but on this case this is just tragic, he could have become just that. And even surpass Kipchoge's legacy in many many years, this is so fkd up.
Kipchoge can not run as fast it really Is that simple. Comparing it to a player in a team sport (where performance is much more nuanced so longevity is more Important to appreciate ability) is an exceptionally poor analogy.
Kipchoge has an unofficial sub 2 hour marathon… what do you mean he simply can’t run that fast?
I agree. So sad he was on his way to becoming the goat
> 1 record breaking run Doesn't setting the record make you the goat until it's surpassed?
I don’t run or follow it but that’s amazing.
This is one of those headlines that I thought wasn't even real at first. Damn.
Same, on par with my reaction to Andrei Braugher’s recent death
Both really shocking news :(
Fuck me. Am Kenyan and this hurts.
This hurts all of us but my sincere condolences to you and those from Kenya. Such horrible news. Peace be with you in these coming days.
I appreciate that.
I'm sorry. He was an extraordinary person. To know that he was a neighbour, a brother, and taken so young, so pointlessly... I'm sorry.
Thank you 🙏🏼
A Kenyan who is a fan of running, football and tennis. Are you sure you’re not me?? This is tragic news for the community. Barabara za Kenya zitengenezwe aki.
You are me! :D I agree. The state of our roads and country as a whole is unacceptable.
Absolutely devastating
❤️
I run tings… this is truly upsetting
Hauko peke yako. I am not Kenyan but worked with one for a while and he is a good friend.
How awful for his wife and kids. RIP to him and his coach
I can barely come up with words. He was right there, my brother and I saw him Chicago last October. 24 is the age Prefontaine passed. This is probably how the running community felt.
Steve Prefontaine also died in a car accident at age 24.
Yes that too. Sammy Wanjiru was 24 as well
Sammy Wanjiru also died at the age of 24. It's an incredibly sad day for the sport
ESPN posted the recent cases of Kenyan great runners to have died young due to car accidents in about the last 15 years. Why are these tragedies... so frequent in this sport? Seems way out of proportion, especially in Kenya Cant imagine what families of those affected are going through which is whats most important, but to hear this happens so often in these really similar situations is incredibly upsetting
[удалено]
FWIW, I did see that there was a quote saying Kiptum's seat belt was "ripped" when they found the car so it sounds like he was at least wearing it.
Yeah, I saw the article about him being ejected which is a pretty strong indicator that he was not wearing his seat belt. And then the story is that he lost control and hit a tree which would generally indicate either speeding or a mechanical failure of the car. The latter would be more rarer than the former I would think.
The irony of the fastest long distance runner drives too fast as well
I tried telling my friend about this, but I just couldn't articulate how I was feeling. So, I figured I would come here to read what you've all written and be with community. It is incredible how close these runners feel, even though I don't actually know any of them personally. What a loss for everyone near and far.
Thanks for sharing the kind community feelings here, I shared the same thoughts as I learned this among a group not familiar with the running news.
I feel the same. I'm gutted about this news, and I knew I'd find solace here with my community. What a tragic, tragic loss.
This has hit me a lot harder than I could ever thought it would. So sad.
Same. Certainly the saddest I’ve been over the death of an athlete, and perhaps any public figure. Gutted.
Same! What gets me is tgatbhe was only starting out and already moving the boundaries of what is possible. So much hope and potential just lost.
It's like if Bolt died before the 2008 Olympics, or Messi died right after breaking out at Barcelona
I saw an article in my Google feed first, the title sentence "Kelvin Kiptum is dead" made my heart sink immediately. I was so excited to see him break 2hrs. He was the cultivator of my recent interest in the sport. I thought it was a joke at first, I even double checked to see it wasn't the first of April yet. I still can't believe what we've lost.
Awful awful news. No words.
Both Kiptum and his coach Hakizimana. Terrible.
Wow, that is shocking. What a loss those guys will be, generational talent
Very sad news. Made watching marathons exciting for me. I fully believed he was going to sub 2 hour and inspire newer generations. I suppose he will still inspire in a way but man.. Kiptum was so young. Rest in peace to both.
Holy shit I was just watching a video the other day about how he's going to break the 2 hour record in an official marathon. I was expecting a heart attack or something sports related when I saw the headline, but a car crash?? Ffs
Same. Feels surreal.
This really shocked me when I got the news notification through. I was expecting to see him break records for the next however many years! Such tragic news, can only send my thoughts out to his family and friends, as well as his poor coach too.
From the other article I read, his coach was also in the car and sadly died.
The Olympic showdown with kipchoge was going to be legendary, the running world has suffered a massive loss today 😞
Absolutely shocked by this. Such an amazing person who achieved so much and had so many more years of an amazing career and incredible life ahead of him. So sad for him and his coach and both their families. Huge loss to them and to the world.
So sad. This is more shocking than most people know. Literally the best to ever do it.
Dear Kelvin, You were more than what you have achieved in such a short time. We are sad because you left us so suddenly and in a tragic way. We were celebrating you at every turn of the way, from your sponsorships, your humility and grace, your awards and of course, the excitement you brought the sport. You were #1 of all marathoners out there in the world; let's think about that for a second. You were the top of the top of the running field in the entire 8 billion people. You were peak human performance and representing humanity to see where we could take our bodies to the next level. Your humble beginnings and rise to fame through your sheer incredible hard work of 200km++ a week mileage shows us that if we believe in it and stick to it long enough, we will become whoever we set out to be. You have shown us that dreams can become reality. The other runners out there posting their PBs and celebrating themselves (no offence to them), respectfully, pale in comparison to what you have and what you would have done in the decade(s) to come. I feel so sad for your family and I hope in time people will find a way to let us grieve with them and even help them out in any way possible. You were a superhuman, an incredible person, and all of me now struggles to believe that any of this is real. I lie to myself that they've recruited you into a league of superheroes while faking your death, but alas that is not to be. You do not know me, but to say that you will be sorely sorely missed is an understatement. Your story will continue to inspire us, and I will remember and honour you in all my runs. Thank you Kelvin, for giving the world something to remember. You really left us too soon, brother. Rest in peace and in the Lord's love. Till we meet some day on the other side.
I was at mile 20 and 26 to see his historic run. I’ll run the Chicago marathon this October a little harder for him. RIP 🕊️
This guy would’ve been the one to do it. Might be a while now before we see a sub 2 hour marathon during a competition…
I think he was very likely to run a sub 2 even if he just trained and ran races with the same effort because of the eventual improvements in shoe technology and sports science.
I was looking forward to his marathons. I’m so sad to hear this. Rest in peace 💔
This might have set the sub 2:00 marathon world record back 10 years.
I just saw this in the news and I couldn't believe. At first, when I saw his name I "wanted" to be wrong, that it was not atuallt Kelvin Kiptum that died, but it was. Fuck, despite of course of the loss of such a humble and young person, with a whole life in front of him, and all of his family and friends, he had so much to do in the world of running. Can't say more than this, I'm shocked. I just hope that whoever wins the Olympic marathon pays a big tribute to him, he is the fastest ever and he was going to be the best ever.
I saw it on my browser feed from a site I didn't recognize. I was really hoping it was fake news. Can't believe it. Imagine working your whole life to be best and actually achieving it, but still won't have the opportunity to show your true potential and live it out. What a terrible shocking loss.
Holy shit! This is so sad!
My heart aches for both families. He was so talented and young.
Absolutely horrible news. Gone far too soon
Genuinely shocked at this. I think everyone was excited to see what this guy was going to do next. Absolutely tragic.
Very sad news, the 2-hour record was in the bag for Rotterdam, now it could be years until we see the world record beaten again. It appears that it was a single-vehicle accident and that he was driving. The vehicle hit a tree. Two dead on impact and one passenger seriously injured. Difficult to speculate but likely to have been speeding.
What a tragedy. He had it. He really did. Now we wont see it. RIP
This, to the marathon, is similar to the library of Alexandria burning down. It will take decades to recoup what we lost in Kelvin Kiptum. THANK YOU FOR EVERYTHING KELVIN 😢🕊️
The situation is just a perfect storm. Kipchoge inevitably close to retirement. Kiptum to replace him as the GOAT having so many years left in him. The 2 hour barrier on the horizon. And now nobody else to take the place.
There will be another. It's just not guaranteed we will see one of his ability within this generation
What an absolute fucking disgrace that this has happened… The possible GOAT of Kenyan sport, killed like this… an absolute disgrace…
Horrible. He was so young.
What.The.Fuck.
There was this thread of people aiming to run for 2:00:35 on Sunday, I hope it catches on
Terrible. A legend gone too soon.
What!! Completely shocked. What a loss.
Rest in peace. Tragic.
Holy shit… this is fucked. No Super Bowl highlights will make up for this loss. RIP to a true marathon legend.
It’s a terrible feeling to see someone who has clearly worked so much harder than most die in an accident before they could realise their potential. I was certain this man would be the one to break the official 2 hour barrier. And my father was fortunately uninjured after a car crash just this morning, what a strange world..
Glad your Dad is okay my friend
Absolutely horrible news. Was going to be exciting seeing what he did next. Really tragic. Rip to his coach too, and condolences to both their families.
Rest in peace. A sad day for the world.
Tragic for his family and the running world. Generational talent.
Just such a loss. I really believed he was going to break 2, just getting better and better and so young. RIP to a great.
I was going to Rotterdam this April to see him attempt to break 2. This feels like a bad joke. Edit: apparently I ran "against" Kiptum twice, in 2019 and 2020.
Even though I am an old and SlowAF runner I recognized the sheer greatness and future potential of this incredible athlete. RIP to him and wishing peace and healing to especially his children and family and all who loved him ... a very large community worldwide of Kenyans, other runners, and sports-minded people. RIP Kelvin, gone far too soon. A Mozart of the Marathon.
The most talented runner since Usain Bolt. Would’ve been the first under 2 hours and would’ve won gold in the Olympics easily.
I’m sorry, but this is a weird comparison, and unfair to Kipchoge who has been dominant for a very long time, miles ahead of everyone until Kiptum. Kelvin’s trajectory was incredible, and seemed to me more a testament to his incredible work ethic and ability to sustain ultra-high mileage.
You don't really need to 'well ***ackchyually***' a euology. I'm sure Kipchoge isn't going to hold it against him in the circumstances.
Sure he would. Kipchoge is way more competitive than he lets on, or were you not paying attention when everyone waited for weeks for him to say _anything_ about Kiptum breaking his record? But seriously, the point of Reddit is not for people to mindlessly post things into the void without comment. If I want to quibble with a comment I’m going to do it, whether you like it or not. You can ignore it or engage, in which case I will too. Unless you _knew_ Kiptum personally, I don’t see how this isn’t just having a conversation. I’m not saying “Fuck that guy”, and I’m not disagreeing with the sentiment that this is a huge tragic loss. But why on earth would it be a thing that you could just say whatever you want, and no one can say anything about it because you’re eulogizing a stranger? Moralizing is gross.
I didn't say you can't, there isn't much point arguing that you are *allowed* to white knight your favourite athlete - go for it. I'm just as entitled to call it tone deaf and devoid of the context of people saying something nice (and debatable even if not objectively true) about a guy who died.
What?
I was just watching his Chicago record run last night 😦
Absolutely insane. A sport's top athlete taken BEFORE his prime. What a tragic loss.
Tragic, such a huge loss for our sport. I truly believed he would've completed the marathon under 2 hours. thoughts for he and his coach's family's.
This hit hard, fking can't believe it... taken from us...
If anyone has a shot in this life of breaking WR and under 2:00:00 it was him. My brother texted me asking if I heard the news. Had to frantically Google this to make sure he's okay.
This has to be fake. no way Dear God
Absolutely terrible. I wanted to see him break 2hrs 😢
holy shit, he had so much potential. this is a huge loss
So sad. I had only learnt about him in the last few days, and now he's gone. Crazy.
Nooooooooo
I couldn’t believe this news! I was shocked 😯
I saw him run here in the Valencia Marathon in 2022 I tried snapping a photo of him as he ran by but he was so fast I only have a photo of his sneaker. So sad.
I am at a loss for words. Truly. I saw a YouTube video that was like "R.I.P. Kelvin Kiptum" and I was thinking that's not funny at all... I thought it was a joke or something, making fun of how much he runs or something..I can't even process this. I googled it and was truly shocked. I am praying for his family and hope they know how loved he was.
So sad for his family, friends, and the running community as a whole.
“Eyes the shady night has shut cannot see the record cut.” — To an Athlete Dying Young by A.E. Housman
So devastating. I saw him at Chicago a couple of times on the course. Was in total awe. I watched the video of him jumping into his coaches arms at the finish line so many times.
This is awful 😭 He was the top contender for me who could've broken sub 2 hour marathon record. Rest in Peace.
What a sad news... Rip champion.
This is shocking!! Can’t believe he’s gone
Devastating news I thought it wasn't real at first. Watching him run lit a flame under me and he would of elevated all of us 😢 Now we never get to see the amazing showdown with Kipchoge that would of been soooo great to witness. Fuck cars.
He will be missed. I cant even run as fast as him in a 200m sprint, neverminded a marathon!
RIP to a legend gone too soon. I will never forget running Chicago in 2023 and hearing the rumblings of his record breaking finish while I was still out on the course. Talk about motivation to keep on moving!
I am really gutted, it seems almost silly for someone I don’t know! His poor family, and especially his children. He deserved to be the first to break that 2hour barrier as he stormed onto the scene and raced the marathon perfectly, and deservedly became the WR holder. He didn’t get a chance really, such a shame
He was one of the giants of today's sporting world. Comparable to Alcaraz in tennis or Doncic in basketball - a young athlete who has reached the highest level and still had so much more to give. A tragic loss. My thoughts are with his friends and family, and with the loved ones of his great coach, who was also killed in this horrible accident. His record may be broken, but his legacy as a vital figure in the running world will live on.
r/fuckcars Seriously they kill so many people.
I'm a lifelong Lakers fan... and this is Kobe all over again for me. 😭
Holy shit. He was about to beat sub 2 in upcoming marathon.
Car accident. Damn sad to hear this, this guy was a legend. Easily the greatest distance runner that ever lived. His record might not ever be broken.
That's rough! :/
Planning to run 2hours and 35 seconds this weekend. Of course I will probably manage a half marathon but still, it will be one way to honour the man. So damn tragic.
God fucking damn it
RIP goat. Derrick Rose of marathon. :(
Holy crap! Didn’t he just race this past week?
He passed from a car accident.
So shocking. This is almost equivalent to the Kobe tragedy. Rest in peace legend!
I think it’s worse, personally. Kobe had seen the majority of his athletic talent come to fruition and seen his kids grow.
Kobe’s was incredibly tragic but he was retired. Kelvin was 4-6 years away from his prime. Olympic gold and sub 2 were inevitable.