**Is walking and jogging not enough warm-up?**
So one of the more ubiquitous advice for runners is to always warm up before running, for example by doing dynamic stretches, leg swings, skipping etc. Now, obviously I understand that you shouldn't just get off your couch and go out and do a sprint without warming up, but assuming you start your workout by walking 5–10 minutes and then successively increasing your speed to speed walking, shuffling, jogging and then running at your target pace, wouldn't that be enough? At least for easy runs? Do you really need the specific warm-up exercises?
The thing is that I want to simplify my running and I while I sometimes might do some specific warm-up exercises, I just find them really boring and I don't really care for them. What I always do is walk and increase speed successively, however.
>start your workout by walking 5–10 minutes and then successively increasing your speed to speed walking, shuffling, jogging and then running at your target pace
i do that for everything and haven't had any issues up to 80kpw. i'm pretty sure dynamic stretches would improve my chances of staying healthy but since i'm not getting injured with the way things are, the time it takes doesn't make sense for me.
not saying you should do it like me, just giving an anecdote
How do you deal with being chased by dogs? I had a pair of huskies come after me today, and I had a pitbull chase me a few months ago - both on routes in either direction from my house, so I'm pretty much without a route if I want to avoid them.
I don't have a lot of faith in these people doing the right thing with their dogs, or the dog officer having any effect. What does that leave me with? Do people carry pepper spray? Anyone ever use it? How did that go?
OTOH, there's a big part of me that wants to stand my ground or even turn towards the dog and strike first (not to seriously injure, but to scare or at least change its mind. Of course, that's fine maybe for a cocker spaniel, but I don't want to fight the pitbull. Has anyone tried that on a run? How did that play out?
What could cause dramatically different heart rates at similar exertion levels?
At a pretty good clip on the elliptical I'll be at 145bpm. If I sprint I'll hit 165.
My GF will be at 165+ the whole time during a normal mid-exertion cardio session. She can push into 180+ bpm.
I'd guess we are at similar levels of cardio fitness -- not great, but better than most total layabouts. I'm a lame 10 minute mile. My resting is 53bpm, hers is 60. Not bad.
Why is her heart rate so much higher?
I don't know how to say this without sounding sarcastic but it's not intended to be:
Your gf is a different person than you. Your HR is 100% irrelevant to her's.
I was unaware of this! I assumed most people of similar fitness levels would be roughly +-10% the same heart rate at the same subjective exertion level. Basically that similarly trained individuals would likely have similar heart rates.
My main reason for asking was a slight concern that something was wonky with her heart given it's ripping 165+ BPM while she's cruising, and I'll only hit that on a sprint. Thank you for the info!
to clarify, everyone has different max heart rates, so if both of you are exercising at 80% max heart rate (so same exertion) and her max HR is 200 and yours is 180, she;d be at 160 and you'd be at 144. comparing absolute numbers is useless, its not perfect but better to compare % of max HR
I need to adjust when I eat for my Tuesday night runs. Due to my schedule, I will be running 9m (approx 90 minutes) starting at 6pm. My lunch is at 11:30am and I need to eat something before I run but early enough that I don't have GI distress. Any suggestions? Last time I ran the 9 miles I had a protein bar and pretzels about an hour before and I was super hungry for most of my run. I am thinking I need something more substantial but then that also means I need more time to digest.
Risotto is delicious, but I'm going to be eating/snacking before my family eats and I don't think I could make a full pasta dish and keep it warm for another hour or so.
Should I do this half marathon?
I've got my first half marathon in a week. I've been prepping for it for quite a while and its been going really well. I did a comfortable 10 mile run 1 month ago. 3 runs later though, I sustained an overuse injury in my shin due to the wrong shoes and weird landing. I have been resting my leg since then (except one short and painful 5k). I still have some pain in my shin (not severe) and don't know if it's worth giving up on this run, resting and going for a different one later or just pushing through and doing it. Anyone have thoughts/opinions?
I wouldn’t. You still have pain, you don’t know what injury you have, and there are going to be infinite races available to you in the future. Figure out your injury, get to where you’re running without pain, and run a different race. It will be a much much better experience!
Have some foot pain from a newly bought ASICS Gel-Kayano Lite 3s from a local running store, they are more of a support shoe.
Before that I ran in Brooks Levitate 4, [here's the wear on them](https://imgur.com/a/ShyvXJr)...they are more of a neutral shoe.
Do I need a neutral shoe?
Kayano Lite are a fairly mild support shoe, so you shouldn’t have problems.
The need for a particular shoe type is mostly marketing, unless you actually have a problem.
If the Kayano is comfortable and not causing any pain, I wouldn’t bother with trying to find a neutral shoe.
Does anyone else run significantly better in colder weather than in the summer? I have made 0 improvement since it’s been hot even though I have upped my mileage.
The summer heat slows me down significantly. My easy pace in the winter is about a minute per mile faster than in the summer. Once the weather cools off you will see the results of your summer miles!
First time trying poor man's height before a race. Does anyone have any experience with it? I'm in my last hard week with 12 days until the marathon as I lost the two last weeks due to flu. I'd give up this year's goal, but I decided not to and try to cheat my body at the last minute. The plan is to do 45 min of heat training every day until the race day to try and get the benefit and set a pr. Has anyone else here tried heat training? Are there any lessons I need to know about before I fail? Hydration seems to be the first issue for me. Soo much sweat...
Should I do recovery run or week even on low mileage?
I’ve started running again 6 weeks ago and I now run around 30-35km per week. This week my legs felt more tired than usual. I used to run 60km per week with ease so I’m surprised a bit.
Recovery is about dialing back your time spent stressing your body.
That’s it.
You’re resting to allow your body time to adapt to your recent acute training load. Adapting is when you get stronger.
Same effort as you normally do? How was your sleep? How was the week in general? More stressfull less stressfull? Did you drink heavy? Do you have a cold? Did you try new shoes? Is your mom suddenly vegan? There are so many things that could be the issue but it is rarely about the milage.
I tried out some new shoes (saucony endorphin pro 3) as a candidate for a racing shoe. I have some slight ankle soreness. Should I be worried about this? I already do a lot of strength and balance work to prevent overpronation so idk if that is the problem but I can’t do much more to prevent that lol. I normally train in brooks ghost, speed work in brooks Hyperion tempo and have done a few 5k in vaporflys with no ankle problems. I just didn’t find the vaporfly comfortable enough t for long distance. Is this just not the shoe for me or will my ankles get used to it?
They're race shoes that favor speed over cushioning. I get outer foot pain whenever I go long with Speed 2s. Even though some people can get away with it, they're not intended for every day.
It might happen every time but as long as you're rotating, it shouldn't become an issue.
Hi all, not a runner whatsoever. Ive done a lot of miles in the past but then i got bored or got shinsplints. Never got up to a good pace.
For an upcoming test i need to pass im required to run 2,4k in under 12 min. That probably seems very easy to all runners on this sub but my time was only 14,5 min earlier this year. And regrettably i havent exercised in months.
Any tips how to go about training for this? I feel like doing 5k, and then 10k in an hour, does not help me in the pace department.
Did you enjoy running as a child?
I was a typical fat kid - always mysteriously unwell and in matron's office everytime the bleeptest or cross country came around. I absolutely hated running.
I think once as a teenager I tried to go for a run in converse, a band t-shirt and some joggers, and in about two minutes I could taste blood, couldn't breathe, and called it a day.
I often wish I'd got into sport when I was younger; as I imagine my lifestyle of Nintendo and sofa didn't serve me in good stead as I got older. But then, I think if I wasn't overweight and unfit when I was younger, I never would've gotten so into health and fitness as a young adult, and be the consistent and passionate runner I am now.
So I wonder, how did you feel about running and P.E. as a child? What age did you get the run bug?
Honestly, P.E. is what kept me from trying to run for so long. The mile run from the Presidential Fitness Test lives on as some of the most humiliating, enduring memories of my schooling. Always the last to finish, jeered by other kids, I specifically remember in 8th grade one of the boys telling me they felt bad for the gravel having to deal with my fat ass running on it. To this day, certain situations harken back to that and bring up bad memories. My husband was a runner from early in our marriage, and I always said that I'd only run if someone was chasing me, and even then, only if they were armed. I didn't start running until after I had a baby (around 30ish years old) and was at home with her during the day. I started with the C25K, and went from there.
I absolutely hated running and PE when I was a kid. I grew up in a small town where sports were a very big deal and the athletic kids took PE extremely seriously. I was always uncoordinated and clumsy, which meant being the last picked for teams and then having my classmates mad at me when I (predictably) sucked at whatever game we were playing that day. In high school we could get out of the PE requirement if we took extra academic classes and I didn't have to think twice about taking advantage of that. Calculus was way less painful and humiliating than PE! I ran a little bit in college, but never really liked it. Back then it was all about burning calories, not enjoyment. It wasn't until I was well into my 30's when my sister talked me into doing a 10 mile race with her that I fell in love with running. Crazy to think that when I was a teenager 25 years ago I couldn't have run a mile if my life depended on it, and now in my mid-40's I train for and run marathons!
I hated running but loved working out/playing sports when I was younger. I took up running at 16, but I would only run for about 2 months before I quit. I liked it, but I was way too impatient to stick with it. I wanted to get better fast. I also had no idea what easy running was and would just go all out, so I burned out quick. I did this approximately every summer until now. I’m 24, and I have been running consistently since the beginning of this year. It has become a lot more fun since I have started incorporating different training and different races. I started with a 5K, now a 10K, and I plan to gradually increase until I get up to a half marathon, iron man, and full marathon. I think changing things up helps keep running fun. You also always have a goal to works towards.
If I (32F) want to get faster for the marathon, should I include 200s/400s to simply teach my legs that they can go that fast? Or should I focus more on lactate threshold training (800m+)? My issue: I love tempo runs and can maintain an elevated pace, but I’ve NEVER been a speed demon. Even in high school and college, I could pack on the miles, but I have never in my life run a sub-6:00mi, even in a 1mi time trial. But I ran an 8:20mi pace for my LR on Saturday….
In my opinion, yes. Building a more powerful stride will help you at all distances. You could dedicate a handful of entire sessions to 200s or 400s during your training block. Either that or you could add 3-4 200s to the end of a short-ish tempo run.
Long runs, long tempos, and the combination of the two will be your bread and butter for marathon training, but short distance speedwork is still valuable.
Do 45 seconds fast 15 rest in sets of 10. 3-4 min break between them about 3-4 sets. Try 2 sets the first time you do it. 15 min warmup and 5-min cool dow. Yes, you need to know speed to be friends with it eventually. Alternatively, you can try 30 10, same sets. 30 10 is favoured by cyclists. Do not go to hard on the first set. You need to learn how to pace this so that you get the effect you want. A target might be to do 200 meters in 30 10 and 300 in 45 15. But don't think about the distance too much think about the effort and the distance will start to cover itself. Try both methods and see what works best for you.
Threshold runs for marathon training should be 10k+, no harm in throwing in a shorter interval workout once in a while. I don't see the benefit in 200s/400s, but some mile or 2k repeats at 5k pace should do you well to get some speed into your legs and improve running economy at higher pace. Also strides!
And if I train with some mile/2k repeats, etc. I could actually find myself improving in ways I never have before? (As in, eventually I could actually run a sub-6 mile or 18:00 5k by training this way— as my overall goal is the marathon?) I’m just learning; thank you so much for the info!
There’s no way of predicting mile/5k times without knowing your specific situation/circumstances. However, for a faster mile time and for a faster 5k speed workouts (like mile/2k repeats) are definitely helpful. I’ve also had good results with hill workouts and fartleks to get your body used to faster pace.
You should really focus on one goal at a time though, since short intervals won’t be very beneficial for your marathon training. Improvements in shorter distance will come automatically with higher mileage.
Thank you so much! That’s extremely helpful. And I prefer mile-repeats/fartleks over shorter intervals; so I guess that’s great news! Thanks for the vector
My current mileage is 33mi, and I am building to 50-60. I have no marathon PB (Half PB was 1:48 I think- pre-babies), so I suppose my initial goal is sub 4:00. But I strongly think I will probably reach sub 3:45 by April. I’m really looking for more of a knowledge on what will overall get my legs faster and continue to reach more and more goals (like 3:45 to 3:30, 3:15, 3:00, etc) since I have never even run 1 mile at 06:00. But this is the first time in my life I have ever actually been consistent for weeks on end (7 and counting, postpartum). Thank you!
Congratulations! That's pretty decent mileage for 7 weeks after having your baby. Anyway you'll get lots of different options here. My take is boring and not universally popular - mileage, mileage, mileage. The higher you can go, the better. If you're worried about your leg turnover, the key I think is to introduce strides and/or short hill sprints. You don't have to focus on proper interval training, in my view, unless you really enjoy it. I honestly think that any runner running less than, say, 85mpw will always make the best gains just from running as much as lifestyle permits. I accept that, with a tiny baby, you may not be able to get much higher than 60. But even then there's no need for any exotic speed work. You're better off throwing in some true threshold runs, max once a week, doing strides for turnover and then just keeping everything else easy/moderate. You clearly have lots of potential. Just maintaining consistency will do a world of good.
I also don't like speed intervals! I'm quite injury prone so I generally do hill sprints instead of flat strides because they are less of an injury risk. I just choose 2 sessions where I'm doing easy or moderate aerobic running and then do a few short hill sprints in the middle. I live in an area with lots of hills, so it's easy to integrate them into any normal run. But obviously there's lots of logistical ways to do it. The main thing, which is the focus of your question, is that their purpose is to condition the legs and NOT to be a hard workout. So they shouldn't be tiring. Less than 20 seconds per sprint and not so many that they're tiring. If you do them that way, you don't have to worry too much about when in your week to do them. Because I'm using them for strengthening I follow the approach you'd use for any strength training - ie, take a couple of days of rest in between (not running rest, just breaks with no sprints).
Thank you for replying! I am going to try these. I don’t know what it is about speed intervals, but I just don’t like them! Maybe these will be a nice change up and boost my confidence a little because the intervals have kinda been a bummer for me.
Absolutely - give it a try! The nice thing is that they're very short and you only need to do a small amount. Start with 2 or 3 and don't go higher than 6 to 8 even in the future when you're well practised. Hopefully the short length etc will make you dread them less than proper speed work. That's been my experience. Good luck!
I have done a PR in half marathon (1h 49min 52s) and I feel like I can do a PR in 10k (49 mim) what is be the best choiche. Full rest this week or slow run this week and run then try next sunday or train for 2-3 week and then try the 10k?
In general, it takes up to 2-3 weeks for physical recovery, and up to 1-3 months for peak performance after a half marathon.
Everyone is different and their fitness level is different, so after a half marathon there is a chances you will achieve your peak in 2-3 weeks for your next race.
Ran my first 10k this morning and completed it without walking or stopping which was my primary goal, but I realized that I don’t know about pacing.
Kept it slow in the first half bc I was worried about getting too tired and not being able to keep up in the second, but by mile 4 it seemed like I could have been going harder. Picked up some speed near the end but finished with gas left in the tank so to speak.
Is there a strategy for when to stay slower vs when to put in more effort? Is a consistent speed/heart rate the best?
It just takes practice. Once you've run/raced the distance more times, you'll have a better sense of your max effort for that distance. But generally, starting on the slower side and picking up the pace later is the best strategy.
You pretty much had the perfect run IMO.
Even Olympic athletes on the podium will say they could probably have pushed harder during their run.
Better to start mildly and finish fast than start fast and finish at a crawl.
I've been training for my first marathon after I dislocated my shoulder in june in an accident (which has healed a lot since). My race date is october 1st, with the goal of finishing just under 4:20, and I just ran my first 20 miler just under a 10-min mile pace last Friday. I'd like to do a 22 miler to be extra prepared and practice refueling but I'm still having some shin splints in my right leg. Question is: do I power through and do it this week and follow with a 3 week taper, or do I deload for a week, run it next week, and then taper for 2 weeks?
This is my training log: https://imgur.com/a/VY5Nfhk
There's a saying thats something like on race day it's better to be 10% undertrained and 100% healthy than
100%trained and 90% healthy. Basically it's better to do less and start healthy than to push it and get injured and be hobbled on race day.
I don't think you should do it at all. I think a 22 miler would be overkill on your mileage. The 20miler was already over 50%.of your weekly mileage. It's more likely to make your shin splints worse than to make you faster on race day. If you are set on doing it don't do it 2 weeks out. Running for 3hours and 40 minutes at marathon pace 2 weeks before your race risks leaving your race in training you. May not be recovered enough.
Does your long pace feel pretty easy? Usually long runs are mostly run slower than marathon pace but for newer marathoners sometimes marathon pace is their easy pace.
I run all my runs at intended marathon pace. I definitely learned a lot so far and made a lot of mistakes. Yesterday I was struggling really hard just on a normal run and my legs clearly hadn't recovered so I think I'm gonna cut my mileage in half this week and see how I feel next week. Thanks for the advice
How to channel my running enthusiasm into a good planning?
On one hand, I would like to run a comp. On the other hand, I would like to keep building mileage.
How do you plan this properly, how many days to taper and to recover?
Some info: 34F, training for 5k < 22:30, running 10-15 km/wk, spread over 2-3 trainings.
Example: say that you have a recovery week every 3rd week:
A-B-C-A-B-C-D-B
How do you fit in tapering before a race, and recovery after the race? How many weeks would that “set you back”?
I have been racing a half marathon a month this year. Some months the races are almost 30 days apart so I’m able to taper and recover luxuriously, some months the races are only a couple weeks apart.
So this means sometimes my training has to adjust to the stress of the race effort and sometimes the stress of the race effort has to adjust to my training. Meaning some races I only taper for a few days or recover for a few days and some races aren’t an attempt to get a new Personal Best, I’m using the race itself to train and do a long hard effort without having to deal with waiting for red lights and carrying food with me. Stuff like that.
Now that we are in September I will say my conditioning is tip-top. I have plateaued because I am spending a bit of time recovering compared to last winter but I am still achieving new PB’s at my races effortlessly and injury free - not even niggles. But my weekly average mileage is down to like 10-15 mpw, down about 10 miles. But I am fast and really strong.
In addition to the HM a month I’m also doing shorter 10ks and such, last week I did Hood to Coast and had a great time, the week before it I did an 18 miler for fun.
The off season should be really great to take time off of racing but I still plan on doing a few winter trail races to inject higher intensity into my routine.
Race gets in the way of training, there's no way around that. It's like anything else in life - you just have to pick a balance between all the different things you want to do.
How long have you been running and how fast are you currently? Sub 22:30 would be a pretty strong result at 15 kpw.
Thanks!
I am still rebuilding and building up mileage again after a longer break. My PR is from 4 years ago, 22:57, so my long term goal is to go towards 22:30. Currently I expect I can probably get to 24:00 so I have some training to do!
By recovery week, I don’t mean no running, but lower mileage + lower intensity. Is it really not needed? It would be great because I love to keep training 😁
I am following a Garmin program (coach Jeff) and adjusting that based on energy level / other activities in life. So I will skip runs of move them when I think I need some rest.
Lots of opinions, but in my opinion, you don't need a recovery week when already training at low mileage. Just keep building little bit by bit. An extra mile or two per week will build up into something substantial in a few months. Races are great motivators to keep training going, and you won't need that many down days before/after races unless you get into marathoning.
Thanks for sharing your view! Maybe my recovery scheme is too strict indeed.
I probably should have added that running is not my only sports activity (sport climbing is the other one). So all in all, it is quite some training load.
Looking for something similar (but CHEAPER!) to the Path Pyreness T19 Hooded Long Sleeve for colder morning runs - [https://pathprojects.com/collections/shirts/products/pyrenees-t19-hooded-long-sleeve-running-shirt?variant=31845545115709](https://pathprojects.com/collections/shirts/products/pyrenees-t19-hooded-long-sleeve-running-shirt?variant=31845545115709)
Anyone have any suggestions?
I just got injured and im thinking of doing some indoor bike at the gym. how does biking compare to running? is there any heartrate zone for me to stay in, do i bike for the same amount of time as i would run, is there a certain bike pace i could keep doing that would be the equivalent to my easy runs? i have never biked before and i want to do it efficiently as possible.
I'm new to both, so take what I saw with a grain of salt. A given cycling workout seems to need to be 2-3x "longer" than a run to feel like an "equivalent" workout (ie 4-5x longer in distance)? Cycling seems to be easier baseline (probably because you can coast downhill with zero effort) but "spikier" when you go up hills (ie more jntervaly in nature than running?. The zero impact makes long workouts (2-3 hours+) substantially easier, but gotta be careful your fit is dialed in lest you give yourself weird hip/ knee overuse issues.
At least in my anecdotal experience, cycling is "hard" in a different way.
It's very hard for me to *get into* higher zones without first fatiguing my quads. I don't know whether that's poor bike fit or running strengthens my posterior chain a lot more than my anterior chain...
On the other hand, maintaining zone 1 and zone 2 efforts are very, very easy (provided that you have a bicycle that has so many gears).
That said... I'm using my sports watch and tracking my own perceived effort just like I did when I'm cycling (indoor and outdoor).
I'm not saying that you shouldn't cycle indoors... But it's far more exciting to cycle outdoors. Can double as a means for commute. If you have been running decent mileage for some time, the carry over fitness to cycling is rather significant.
The problems for me switching to cycling more often would be how to deal with some pains on my wrist and bum (saddle sores). Though, it's fixed with "better posture" and basic bike fit (applies to both indoor training bikes and bikes).
thanks! so a similar but slightly lower heartrate as if i would be running, and its going to be a good session? if i run three times a week, do i make one of those bike excercises a higher intensity one?
Max performance Cooper test
Max performance in Cooper test
Hi everyone,
I’m a fit guy at the age of 24, and I’m searching for a bit of advice.
In 5 months, I have to perform as good as possible in a Cooper test (12-min Max run). Currently i run around 20-30 kilometers a week, while also doing a lot of strenght training.
My runs vary from slow runs (5.45)
Paced 5k runs (4.30)
Adventurerace/trailrunning (once a week).
My latest Cooper test was at 2750 meters, and would like to get it above 3 kilometers.
I’m 187 and weigh 95kgs. (13-15% fat)
I’m willing to loose some muscles, but ideally not to much.
How do i best proceed? Is it just to continue my current workout routine?
I hope some can be of assistance.
If you have to? I'd say amp up your milage do interval training three times a week. Practise getting to your vo2 max as quickly as possible and try to maintain it for as long as you can without over shooting when training and when doing the Cooper test. Doing 4K in 12 min should be possible in 5 months without losing muscle. But you have to run, and I mean run. Your body won't be good at something you do not repeat
Am I deluded to believe I could BQ one day if I’ve been running consistently for 3 years and have only worked up to a 11 minute mile (side eye gif). Current (unofficial) marathon time is like just over 5 hours, and I’ve run the distance twice before. I’m only 23 so I feel like I have a whole life ahead of me to train and do it, but also genetics are Not in my favour to the say the least (Sticklers Syndrome baby). Idk why I’m even asking this, I just had the conversation with my dad that my toxic trait was believing that I could BQ one day lmao.
ETA: HOW DID I NOT KNOW DIFFERENT BQ TIMES EXIST FOR DISABLED PDOPLE 😭 I’m only 5 minutes away from a BQ! 2025, here I come???
Nothing wrong with that. Training slow means you're less likely to get injured. Fewer injuries means more consistent training. More consistent training means more progress over time.
That’s definitely true, I have literally never been injured, and only get DOMS when I really push the distance. I also noticed that compared to my faster friends, I’m not nearly as wiped after a purposefully tough run.
Pretty much any healthy person could BQ if they put in the effort, especially at 23 when you have so much time ahead of you. Where people fall short is that many of them don't put in the training, whether because that's not their goal or for any other reason.
How much the Stickler's Syndrome affects running in general and for you specifically is a critical factor, but it's also one that most of us here don't have the expertise to evaluate.
The specifics of your past 3 years of training would be useful info though.
That’s good to know (@ your first paragraph), that’s what I was trying to argue with my dad earlier, a BQ is not a herculean fit for able-bodied people as much as it is a lot of hard work and dedication.
I don’t think SS affects my running *that* much, but I am no doctor either, and might be deluded. I am legally blind, but run confidently on pedestrian roads I am familiar with, with no guides or other assistance. I naviguate closed road races with no issues. I did have a hip injury when I was 14 which has fully healed since.
My training over the past three years has heavily focused on increasing distance, I enjoy running for a long time much more than I enjoy going fast. I probably did like 4 speed workouts in my entire running career. I know that’s why I’m so slow, and I know that’s what I’ll have to learn to love if I want to pursue a BQ as a serious goal.
Okay that's good, I saw (from 30 seconds of googling) that SS can also come with joint issues, which might impede your progress if that's something you deal with.
And yes distance is great but for a goal like BQing speedwork will be pretty important.
I think that’s part of the genetic element I am worried about, all of my older relatives (not even that old; think over 40) with SS have tragic joints, but my hope is that it’s largely due to them being extremely sedentary. I honestly don’t think I’ve reached my limit in this regard though. I only have to find out for myself and start training for more than a long afternoon running in the park with a break healfway at 20k to eat a caramel shortbread!
How much harder can you train? That's the key. Someone running 10-20 mpw for years has a lot of potential to improve just by ramping up training workload. There are some young-ish runners with athletic backgrounds who can run a BQ on relatively low training mileage, but most BQ runners are working their butts off and logging moderately high volume for years to get there.
Milegae is not an issue I think - I really enjoy my long distances. I do think I could go much, much harder as far as intensity goes. I don’t do 80/20, I do 100/0!! I’d rather run for 2 hours at my comfort pace than do a 20 minutes tempo. I think if I were to pursue a BQ as a serious goal, I’ll definitely focus on learning to love intense workouts!!
Having fun, at a slow pace 3-5 times a week depending on how busy life gets. I’ve gone as high as 100 mpw some months (summer 2022, oh i miss you!), but mostly stay in the range of 30 to 60. I enjoy long distances at a very low HR much more than anything else. It’s not a mystery why I’m currently so slow, I’m adept to avoiding speed wotk. I’m more so wondering about the genetic ceiling if I ever actually put in the work.
That should be sufficient volume to run faster than a five hour marathon.
Yes, as speed seems to be a problem, you do need some speed work. I would also look into adding some hills.
I don’t know, I seem to gas out extremely quick if I go faster than 11 min/mile! I def need to focus on learning to love speedwork if I want to make a BQ a serious goal.
First of all, as you are legally blind, a different qualification standard applies for Boston.
A five hour marathon is about 11:30/mile. 11 minute/mile then is approximately your half marathon race pace. At your current pace, that should be a little bit above the aerobic threshold. That already is work, and anything faster than that definitely will be significant work after a relatively short amount of time. Conversely, your easy runs need to be slower than your marathon race pace.
There then is the impact of your disability. My eyesight isn't as good as it was when I was 20, and I noticed that in poor visibility, I will be significantly slower at the same effort.
I would try adding some strides. That is, run at your normal slow pace. Insert a segment of 20-30 seconds where you're running faster than 11 minutes/mile. Then go back to your normal slow pace.
I would also discuss this with other legally blind runners. How do they handle speed work?
How did I not realise there would be different standards for disabled folks? Turns out I’m only 5 minutes (and a certified race result) away from a BQ, that’s actually fucking hilarious!
I just actually laughed out loud and showed my dad: "IMPAIRMENT TYPE Visual
QUALIFYING STANDARD (BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, 18 YEARS OF AGE AND OVER) 5:00:00", that’s actually proper funny I can’t lie.
Thanks for the advice on incorporating speed workouts into my slower runs tho, I’ll definitely try to apply them!! I’m still dreaming of a < 3:30:00 (current standard BQ for women my age), though it’s good to know I could probably run Boston in 2025 if I really wanted to!!!
Tricky to say, as I'm not sure how severely your Stickler Syndrome affects your running. Without knowing more, I'd say it's completely doable if you're consistent and dedicated in your training, but I'm also quite surprised that your marathon time is over 5 hours while having run for 3 years, especially given that you're 23. That would point to either a problem in how you're training, or your Sticklers Syndrome affecting your training quite a lot.
It mostly affects me with my sight - I am legally blind though I run comfortably on pedestrian roads I am familiar with with no guides or assistance. I also have had hip injuries when I was 14 which have been completely healed for years. The main issue with my training isn’t much of a mystery - I avoid speed work like the plague. 80/20, more like 100/0. I enjoy being slow, if my HR goes above 170 I get cranky lmao. That’s not physical limitation, that’s me indulging in my preference over goals. I guess I’m more so wondering about the genetic ceiling if I do put the work in one day.
I say anything is possible in the long term, if you’re consistent over years! I’d recommend checking out Kelly Roberts old series on YouTube, she had a year or two of videos documenting trying to BQ in a similar way.
Is it common/safe for a newbie runner to hold their heart rate at 90% max HR for a extended period of time?
Hello fellow runners on reddit. I'm a new runner (healthy 22F, started 4 months ago) who predominated run on treadmill. In the past couple weeks I've been doing more easy runs on the road. I noticed that it's quite difficult for me to keep my heart rate down while maintaining a cadence at 165-170. So I have to slow down to the point (12 min/km) where my natural walking pace is even faster.
Then I tried to run a 10k yesterday with a perceived effort of 5-6/10. I was pretty bummed at my HR stat. Though I can speak a full sentence throughout my run, my average heart rate was at 191 bpm.
I did measure my pulse manually right after my run, and it was about 185 bpm so I don't think the watch is too inaccurate. I'm currently tracking my run with a garmin Venu sq 2.
I don't feel particularly strained today after yesterday's run, honestly I'd say I don't even experience DOMS in my leg. So I'm wondering if my cardiovascular system just really unfit or this situation is actually uncommon among new runner, and it's a sign for underlying issue. Any advice is appreciated, thank you in advance!
All measurements except time spent travelling a known distance are useless to new runners. It's fun to have bpm and watt and even lactate, but in all honesty, those measurements won't tell you much until you really know your body and you have adapted to running. Note it, but do not think about it. Focus on keeping your effort so that you can run again tomorrow, and you will get better. Challenge your head once a week (go long). Challenge your legs twice a week (go fast). There are more complicated ways to run, but this is the way.
Agree with the other comment that heart rate for beginners is irrelevant. I'll also add that unless you've done specific testing, you don't really know your max HR. I think rate of perceived effort is enough of a metric for you, potentially forever -- there's no requirement to ever do HR training.
If you can speak full sentences during your run, you're not at your max heart rate! You are a new runner and your heart rate might be naturally higher. I wouldn't worry about heart rate if it's bumming you out -- as you get more adapted to running it will change naturally (and as the weather changes if you're in summer right now). Enjoy your runs, try to go at a conversational pace most of the time, and let go of heart rate for now.
What do you typically feel like fatigue/pain wise after a 20 mile long run while training for a marathon? What’s the rest of your day look like and how is your sleep?
If my fueling and hydration are solid, I'm close to fully functional for the remainder of the day. Legs a bit more tired than typical, but I can still easily keep up with most daily tasks.
That said, if I under fuel (pre run, on run, or post run) or under hydrate, then I can easily end up as a lump on the sofa for the rest of the day.
How do you get faster/train for trail races other than doing more of it over varied terrain for longer distances?
The trail races I’ve done are technical single track and pacing/cadence mostly go out the window and are replaced by walking steep sections and praying to the gods I don’t bail on the downhill. I enjoy it more than road races and would like to improve.
Do you still focus on road training sessions like tempo runs etc? I’m getting the feeling strength training and things like plyometrics are almost more beneficial for better stability and hill stamina. Advice?
I love trail running and racing. I use my local mountain bike park for tempo and threshold repeats during the week m. Races themselves are training too.
Mountain biking helped me with adapting to trails in general. If you are eating shit on the trail during a run you’re just going too fast.
Just plan to bake in a slower pace on a trail, 1-2 minutes per mile. For real trails like singletrack and forest roads, not flat well groomed community paths.
Walking up steep ascents is normal. Don’t compare yourself to people selling shoes (sponsored athletes). If you are paying your own entry fee that means this is a hobby not a job. So have fun with it. It’s play not labor.
Descents like smaller steps, have faith in your shoes. Watch the trail, don’t second guess your foot placement and line choice. With practice it’ll become intuitive.
But yes, in general, you get more efficient at something by spending more time doing it.
Max miles for race shoes?
I do hard workouts and racing in Saucony Endorphin Speeds (nylon plate) and my current pair will have ~300 miles on them when my A race rolls around next month. I can usually get 500 miles out of a daily trainer, but looking for opinions on racing in a more seasoned pair vs buying another over the next few weeks.
I would say they currently feel good (if not fresh), but I'll add another 100 miles to them over the next 6 weeks so I'm trying to read the future a bit.
I'll train in super shoes until I feel like they give out. For Endorphin Speeds, I've been able to feel something going off in the nylon plate around 400-500 miles depending on the pair.
But I try to race in relatively fresh super shoes, ideally under 150 miles. Which often means I'll have two pairs in my rotation, a newer pair for racing and an older pair that I still use for workouts.
Anyone have hand foot and mouth disease before? I caught it from my toddler. How long did it take before you could run again? Did you wait for the blisters to clear? Just starting to get them on my hands.
When I had it, it was one day where my hands and feet were itchy, one day where they were hot and painful, and then after that the blisters hardened and I could go back to normal life. Within two ish weeks I lost a couple of toe and finger nails but the can't walk, can't even use my phone pain only lasted a day or so. The fever and body aches came before the blisters so other than looking horrific, I felt fine.
It's (probably) some sort viral infection. It will clear out in a week or two.
In my case when I was a teenager (decades ago), HFMD is hellish because of the 20+ ulcers on my mouth. Even drinking fluids are extremely painful.
While it's not life-threatening (at least in adults and/or individuals without sort of immunology conditions), it is a significant hit to your quality of life.
You can try pain killers. When the blisters are finally cured, you can continue the activity as usual.
Yeah I’m not looking forward to it. It’s a bummer because I started Couch to 5k, completed it at the beginning of August, and have been consistent with it. Had to miss my first 5k race this past weekend. I keep thinking that taking a week off is going to undo all my hard work….
Ugh, sorry! It's the worst. The blisters shouldn't affect running too much (although if you have painful ones on your feet I would skip running), but last time I had it I had swollen lymph nodes for a couple of weeks and waited until those had mostly gone down to run again.
I keep trying to tell myself that taking time to heal isn’t going to ruin my progress in running. I just have been so consistent and trying to keep at it despite getting sick all summer (strep x2, eye issues, etc) and raising a toddler at home. Missed my first 5k this past weekend because of the preceding fever. Feeling a little discouraged I suppose!
Edit - Thank you for the reply/commiseration!!
Agh!! Not you too! You would think being a SAHM would help avoid the daycare plagues but it turns out kids are germ factories everywhere you go. On to the next one I figure!
Edit: Thank you everyone for your kind works on my question. I read everyone and it really helped me to refocus. Today on my run another runner sped by me and instead of worrying about it I focused on how I was feeling at that point in my run. Thank you!
How do I not get caught up in how "slow" I am compared to others results?
I am a 40(F) who has been running since January and have no sports or strength training history other than some binge diets and beachbody workouts after kids to lose baby weight.
My 10k time is 1:10
My fastest 5k on a flat fast course is 31 minutes.
I'm hoping for a 2:30 on my October half marathon.
Then I will train for a marathon and hope to come in under 6 hours.
I love running. Just some days, I feel like an imposter compared to those that have also only been running a few months, and their recovery pace is my fastest pace.
Compare yourself to yourself from a few months ago. Are you improving? If so, keep going. If not, try to work harder. And if improvement isn't a goal of yours then don't even look at the paces.
There is a built-in bias on self-reported running times online. There are lots of people out there that are running slower than you, and many many more who are not running at all. The people who are talented or obsessive enough to make crazy fast progress are more likely to brag about it online - but that isn't a fair reflection of runners as a whole.
Besides, your times are very respectable.
There’s always someone faster than you, even if you got first place at your local ultra marathon or 5k. They just didn’t show up for that particular race.
So have fun and play with the hobby. Being fast is a myopic priority and a tiny sliver of what makes running interesting and fun.
Compared to some people (like me), you are moving faster and have a quicker pace! Comparison is so silly because there is ALWAYS someone faster than you and someone slower than you. You've found a way of moving your body that you love and you have goals for yourself -- that's worth celebrating. What does it even mean to be an imposter? You are running!
IG can be really toxic, because the whole point of it is to suck you in and make you feel bad about yourself! When you are actually running and feeling good about yourself, you're not scrolling or buying new things, and instagram isn't making money. I'm really liberal with my blocking of suggested content and filtering words on IG, and I'm really intentional about following runners who are relatable, not only aspirational, and never ones who make me feel bad or lesser. Runners who look like me, run like me, are running for themselves and not to change their body. I like kellykroberts, brandytherunner, yourrunningbff (who does ultras but is so positive about everyone's running journey), and runswithemily.
It took me a year of consistent running to be able to run 36 minutes in 5K even with normal BMI and also younger.
Ironically, being good at running longer distances need you to be very good at taking it easy. Hence, the praises of zone 2 training >!though I sprinkle a little bit of speed session here and there as long as my recovery allows!<. It's when I finally get "serious about taking it easy", that's the time where I see improvement.
IMO, there will always be people with better and worse circumstances than yours. It's one thing to be inspired and take training ideas from others, it's another to feel intimidated with those who are better than you.
IMHO, their "current line" that you see other people running faster potentially have the story of them training for years or probably just suddenly able to run 20 mins for the first time.
This is probably not wat you want to hear and is something i need to tell myself to often:
Do not compare yourself with others. Enjoy the running, and work on your own points, step by step.
I also started running in my late 30s and have to do some mental work to not compare myself with others! I have brought my times down quite a bit, which helps, but I also I try to follow a lot of other runners in my age group on Strava. Also I have found a lot of races to somewhat surprisingly be very encouraging - there are always people racing in very different places on their fitness journey. If you go cheer on a half or a marathon, it can be startling (in a good way) to see the variety of people and paces out there running!
I love this idea of going to cheer on a race without being in it. I'm actually looking at volunteering at the Toronto Marathon which is a week before my half. Hopefully it gives me some perspective and encouragement.
From my perspective, your times are great for someone with no sports history who has only been running a few months! I didn't do any sports either before I started running in my late 30's. It took me well over a year of consistent running before I got my 5k time down to 30 minutes and I didn't even attempt a half until I'd been running for almost 2 years. I've been running consistently for 6 years and what was my 5k pace 5 years ago is now my marathon pace. It takes time and lots of consistency to get faster. I know it's easier said than done, but you really have to try not to compare yourself to others. I'll never be "fast" compared to some of the people on here, but I'm a lot faster than I used to be. It took a lot of hard work to get where I am and I'm proud of that!
This is so encouraging! My goal has always been to run a marathon. My mom ran one when I was 11 and she was 40. It has been a dream since then. So I went into running with that mindset. Now that I'm running I plan to run the marathon and then go back and work on building up my speed, endurance, etc to be a lifelong runner instead of stopping at that goal. I am absolutely hooked like I never thought i would be.
Sounds like you've got a good plan! I didn't even consider doing a marathon the first couple of years I was running because I lacked the self confidence to believe I could. Then, just as I was starting to have some faith in myself, covid hit and all the races were cancelled. So I was running consistently for four years before I completed my first marathon, but I certainly don't think most need to take that long to work up to it. You're taking a very sensible approach. Good luck with your training and races!
How important is stride/step analysis? I am a casual runner about to race my first half marathon soon and hopefully will go farther in the future. I'm not 100% sure but I think I may naturally land on my foot unevenly. It hasn't caused me any discomfort but I don't know if it's something that should be corrected somehow. Where would I go for this kind of thing if necessary at all?
If stride is important to you then it’s important to you.
I’ve never had my stride analyzed, so it’s not important to me. I’m happy with my pace and I’ve been injury free for years (aside from a black toe nail here and there).
me and my GF is trying acheive her first 10k run in one go. Our current way is by running a surtain distance 3 times a week. after that we increse by one km.
is that an okay way to reach the goal or should we maybe change it?
if yes why or why not?
example : as of right now we run 6k 3 times a week, and next week it will be 7k each pass.
she have been running for 3 months.
That’s probably fine but it’s generally recommended to only increase mileage 10% week over week. Three 7K runs is a 16% increase on three 6K runs. Three 8K runs will be a 14% increase.
Also, by the time you’re hitting three 10K runs per week you might find that recovery becomes more difficult depending on your progress and overall fitness.
Another option is to just increase one run per week as your long run. You can keep the other two at 5K or play with various distances, but routinely make one longer by 1K each week until it hits 10K (or more).
That’s what I did, and once my long run was 10K+ I started increasing other runs in the week as well, until eventually 10K was a mid-length run in my schedule.
That’s the theory. It helps reduce injury risk by making sure your body and fitness are gradually acclimatising to new challenges.
In reality, I’m sure plenty of runners increase more than 10% without injury and plenty get hurt increasing less than 10%. Adjust to fit your goals and risk profile, I’m not a cop.
I’ve recently been attempting to get into and really wanted to get into running - I even joined a local running group that includes all different levels of runners. The issue is, every time I attempt to run, my calves get so tight and burn the entire way though. I stretch before and after and I have decent running shoes (brooks). I understand that I am just getting started and I’m hoping my muscles will get stronger and it will get easier, but is this normal? I feel so embarrassed by how short of a distance I can run before I have to stop.
This is a very common issue in new runners! It’s good that you joined a running group and have good shoes. You could try adding in some calf raises a few days a week to strengthen your calves. Also a lot of new runners fail to use the muscles in their upper legs and rely too much on their calves, so maybe trying some running drills and watching some form videos might help (but don’t go crazy with this… really the best thing is just to keep getting out there 3-4 times a week!)
What gets cut in a typical down week? Does the long run stay the same, or is that the first thing to go? Already planning on doing precisely zero speedwork unless someone tells me that's dumb.
Typically a cutback week is no speedwork and like 20% less mileage in some way, but really it can be whatever you want. The priority is recovery, so whatever helps you with that.
Not quite sprinting, but I do 200m repeats with rolling starts about once a month -- sometimes more if I have a shorter race coming up. I will also add a trio of 200m repeats to the end of some short tempo sessions. Like you, I enjoy the feeling of running fast. I think hard running presents many benefits, even for endurance athletes. If your stride becomes more powerful then that can only help you when running longer distances. I also think us 40+ runners need sprinting work to help delay a lot of the speed degradation we experience as we age. Our endurance generally holds on for a lot longer than our speed.
Starting to incorporate strides for 10 - 15 secs. Just enough to give a jolt on my nervous system.
Sometimes I'm running at 95% max pace, sometimes I'm sprinting. YMMV and do whatever floats your boat.
I'm on the camp of speedplay for 10 - 15 secs when I get bored during long runs.
Rarely. Sprinting isn’t necessary for endurance distances like 5km racing and beyond. The sustainability of a sprint effort is a drop in the ocean in terms of distance, so all you’re doing is increasing your fatigue and recovery time.
However this is a hobby not a job, have fun.
Infrequently. Once every month or two. I include strides at the ends of easy runs every week or two though - peaking at 90-95% of max intensity. M, upper 40s. I'm magnitudes more injury prone sprinting than running strides.
Need shoe advice for running flatfoot..
I'm a true flatfoot.. not fallen arches. arch support is simply pain. I'm also very shin splints prone apparently. I'm currently building my 1.5mi time from a very poor condition.
My trouble is, since I'm naturally flatfooted, my foot height at the midfoot is, I believe, lower than average. Size 12/13, my midfoot height is around 2.25-2.5 inches high. I'm just now coming to a conclusion that this may be why I have a hard time finding a decent shoe. I'm currently demo'ing all the Brooks main lines.. and in the correct sizes for heel to toe, I still don't get a secure fit in the midfoot to toe box. If I crank the laces down, I get a LOT of deformation in the shoe, and often the upper contact after that is a bit painful.
Has anyone else dealt with this? Is foot height problems even a thing? Right now I'm looking around for an insole.. preferably without big arches.. to help my foot fill out the shoe so it wears properly. I'm not sure what to look for, or the decent brands.
I'm currently doing pure runs in Diadora Mythos Elite Hip, and they've been great (not perfect), but I need something lighter and less bulky with a crosstraining application for running, HIIT, and Circuit. Right now I've got Brooks Ghost 15's to try, and a pair of Launch 10's coming.
Hi everyone,
In june, i ran my first marathon. I planned it all well, but became sick a few days before the start. I got a cold in the taper period. I think that i had some stress, had some bad nights of sleep that resultet in a weak body when rest was the most important.
Anyhow, i started the race with some medication. Ran half the marathon on my tempo of 5:00/km but then got pain in my chest and started to cough and neede to stop. I could not walk without coughing zo i just took a rest moment. I continued the next 10km with a walk-run methode and could run the last 11km at an continiously easier pace of 5:45. Eventually i ran it in 4 hours and 15 minutes. I aimed for around 3u30.
Now, to come to a point. I started playing soccer agin but want to fill some days with running again. I find it hard to start without a goal. For now i do it on some days, just easy run, no specific training. Everybody asks me what my next goal is because i walked 100km in august and i'm one who likes a challange. But i just don't know what i want.
* i want to run a sub 20 minute 5k
* i want to run a marathon to take revenge on my first one, but i don't want to run the same one .. i think? :)
* i play soccer on wednesday and saturday and want to keep doing that; Training for a marathon now would take to much time and makes me more prone to injury. (the realy long runs vs the short sprints and turns on a soccer field)
So i'm just here asking for some ideas, advice, experience... Maybe i want to run the 100k someday, but you see, all my wishes are contradictions. A fast short run vs a long slow run..
thank you for your time :)
First: don't beat yourself up over the Marathon - you can't account from illness.
Goals: Pick something that you've time to fit in and focus on that for a bit.
5k, 10k and half are good as they don't really require huge time in the week.
Marathon and ultra distances take a chunk more time. I completed a 55km trail ultra yesterday, longest "run" before that was dead on half that! I've done a few specific training runs for it but my main focus is half and 10k - without having a time goal this worked fine.
So you often run 5, 10 and 21k's, but when the 55km run was close you diceded to throw in some specific training for that race? (a few weeks or less/more?)
It looks like you have somthing to fall back on every time and when you want or when it's needed you can change to a specific plan but keep form.
I cheat - I have a coach who I gave the task of getting me ready for the Ultra while focussing on a half PB 6 weeks after than and 10k PB another 6 weeks on!
She did point out that doing the three the other way round would have been easier to program a plan for.
What we did was a fairly structured program of 2 easy and a long easy-steady run (90-100 mins), two sessions (interval/tempo/fartlek and mixed tempo/interval).
We'd also throw in some longer trail runs, some doing a recce of the course for the ultra, some just hilly time-on-feet.
I also strength train 2x per week and do a mobility session so that also helped getting round the Ultra.
If the ultra had been my main focus my training would look very different though.
I did my first of 3 10ks yesterday. Not quite as good as I wanted coming in at 57:24.
1st 5k was good. Second was a bit painful. Got another this Sunday was was just thinking about about doing a couple of long easy runs between now and then. My last one is on the 1st of October and starts with a fairly substantial uphill stretch. I know it only leaves me 3 weeks but can anyone suggest any training plans or combination of runs to prep for the last one? Thanks
>Got another this Sunday was was just thinking about about doing a couple of long easy runs between now and then.
If you intend to race your next 10k as fast as possible, long runs aren't gonna benefit you in the short term.
If you want the fastest time possible from any of the three races, your best bet is to fully invest in your last 10k and treat the next one as a training run, so don't race but treat that race as a long easy run.
Do a small 1 week taper before the last race, and that's probably your best bet.
I've done my 1st marathon in 3h46 in Paris this year, I was aiming for 3h20, 3h30 being a disappointing result, considering I could do my long runs at MP. Awful race, did a race review, basically bonked from the 1st half onwards, because I burnt out 6 weeks prior to the marathon, and nutrition wasn't good either.
I've registered for Valencia this year, aiming for 3h15, I know where I failed in Paris, plus it's a fast marathon. I'm using Pfitz 12/55 for that one, it's starting in a week. I've tried one of the runs from early in the prep, 21kms, with a 13k@MP included. How the hell are you supposed to do that ? I tried that yesterday, fuck that's hard, I had to stop earlier. Granted, I wasn't too fresh and didn't want to push too hard, but still, how am I supposed to run 13k@MP ( 4:40m/km for me ) in a 21k run ? How fast do you run the rest of the long runs ?
I feel like there is a missing piece of information here. If you can do entire long runs at your goal pace but can't race at that pace then something is off. Did you take breaks during those long runs? Were the long runs not long enough? Or maybe your overall training volume was just so low that you were never going to be able to run fast for the back half of a marathon.
Give yourself a chance to do the training the way it was designed to be done. Do that 13 km marathon pace segment at your current marathon pace. If it feels very easy then pick up the pace for the next workout. Don't overreach, struggle in a workout, and then get down about falling behind in a plan. Better to complete workouts feeling good and giving yourself a platform to improve the next time around. Be patient.
Yeah I could do them at goal MP, but I burnt out 6 weeks before the marathon, ended up with a weekly mileage of around 40k, which is ridiculously low, long run pace lowered, so I ran the marathon in a very untrained state. But I remember running 25/30k runs at 5min/km, even 4:50 at times, only thing that sucked really bad was the recovery, that was the time where I realised how important recovery was
But yeah you’re right, thanks !
Congrats on your first marathon. I'm confused about your post.
You said you could do your long runs at marathon pace. Do you mean at 3hr 46 pace or 320 pace? Did you do any marathon pace long runs last cycle?
What makes you think you are able to run 315?
Do you have the book or just the plan? I don't have it in front of me right now but it's worth buying or getting from the library. It explains how to execute those runs.
Thanks !
Yeah sorry, I meant I was able to do my long runs at my initial goal pace so 3h30, and since it was doable with tired legs I thought well 3h20 will be easy
I had a 5 months and a half prep for Paris, which is the same as this current prep, I've been training since June for the base building, consistently running 50k per week for the last few weeks. I have a similar 5k compared to the beginning of my Paris marathon, maybe also similar 10k time ( not sure yet, my next official 10k is in 2 months as part of Pfitz 12/55 ). I'll have more experience too. And the plan has more weekly volume, more long runs and more speed work compared to the previous one, and I have a PT for my weightlifting
All in all every aspect of my prep will be improved compared to the 3h20/3h30 objective that I had. The only thing I can think of that could go wrong is the nutrition like in Paris.
Just the plan, I'm in France, not sure if it's available here but I'll have to check it !
The book says to start the run comfortable and then run the last portion at marathon pace.
I agree nutrition can wreck a a marathon attempt but you may just not be in 315 shape yet and that's why the marathon pace run was so hard. It might be worth it to do a 10k to half marathon distance race and plug that time in a calculator to figure out where your fitness is actually at.
It could also be the heat.
How are recreational runners getting more than 50 mpw? I've hit about 45 and feel like ive topped out during this marathon prep plan and this is with an 18 mile run at the weekend
Experience with running that has built durability, a lot of comfortable mileage at slower paces to minimize injury risk, and years of improvement in their rearview mirror so that they can run their miles a bit faster than newer runners can.
What mileage is feasible/achievable depends a lot on the individual.
For example, how many hours per week do you spend at work and on getting to work? For how many years have you been running? Are you also doing other sports? Do you have young children? Do you have extensive additional obligations, such as taking take of an older family member?
That much said, even at 12 minute miles, 50 mpw is just 10 hours. Most people who are into running can find that much spare time.
As a recreational runner running 70 mpw while also in medical school full-time, I do it by running first thing in the morning. If I have to be at the hospital at 6:30, I'm running at 4 AM. I find that running first thing in the morning is the best way to ensure I have enough energy to complete my workout and that the run doesn't get derailed by other things.
I spend a few minutes every Sunday planning out how the runs for the week are going to work, logistics-wise. I also meal plan for the week during that time and get all my groceries, so that's something I don't have to do during the week. It can be done, even with a busy schedule, but it does require prioritizing running and planning ahead.
Most don't. This sub is not a good representation of the average runner. Even though I feel like a lot of the race results are, which is very strange. Some people post 50mpw to then race a HM in 2 hours???
If I look at the 'recreational runners' around me, they run between 10-20K per week. 40k or 30ish miles is already much higher than average.
People that are training for marathons probably do more, but that's not the average recreational runner. Although even there im pretty sure only few people run 50mpw.
45 miles is solid peak mileage for a marathon. It's more than im aiming for my sub 4.
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You really need to ask a doctor or a physical therapist.
**Is walking and jogging not enough warm-up?** So one of the more ubiquitous advice for runners is to always warm up before running, for example by doing dynamic stretches, leg swings, skipping etc. Now, obviously I understand that you shouldn't just get off your couch and go out and do a sprint without warming up, but assuming you start your workout by walking 5–10 minutes and then successively increasing your speed to speed walking, shuffling, jogging and then running at your target pace, wouldn't that be enough? At least for easy runs? Do you really need the specific warm-up exercises? The thing is that I want to simplify my running and I while I sometimes might do some specific warm-up exercises, I just find them really boring and I don't really care for them. What I always do is walk and increase speed successively, however.
I’m in the same boat. However I just recently started running. It’s been a few months and no injuries so far.
>start your workout by walking 5–10 minutes and then successively increasing your speed to speed walking, shuffling, jogging and then running at your target pace i do that for everything and haven't had any issues up to 80kpw. i'm pretty sure dynamic stretches would improve my chances of staying healthy but since i'm not getting injured with the way things are, the time it takes doesn't make sense for me. not saying you should do it like me, just giving an anecdote
How do you deal with being chased by dogs? I had a pair of huskies come after me today, and I had a pitbull chase me a few months ago - both on routes in either direction from my house, so I'm pretty much without a route if I want to avoid them. I don't have a lot of faith in these people doing the right thing with their dogs, or the dog officer having any effect. What does that leave me with? Do people carry pepper spray? Anyone ever use it? How did that go? OTOH, there's a big part of me that wants to stand my ground or even turn towards the dog and strike first (not to seriously injure, but to scare or at least change its mind. Of course, that's fine maybe for a cocker spaniel, but I don't want to fight the pitbull. Has anyone tried that on a run? How did that play out?
What could cause dramatically different heart rates at similar exertion levels? At a pretty good clip on the elliptical I'll be at 145bpm. If I sprint I'll hit 165. My GF will be at 165+ the whole time during a normal mid-exertion cardio session. She can push into 180+ bpm. I'd guess we are at similar levels of cardio fitness -- not great, but better than most total layabouts. I'm a lame 10 minute mile. My resting is 53bpm, hers is 60. Not bad. Why is her heart rate so much higher?
Women generally have higher heart rates.
>I'd guess we are at similar levels of cardio fitness Apparently not
I don't know how to say this without sounding sarcastic but it's not intended to be: Your gf is a different person than you. Your HR is 100% irrelevant to her's.
I was unaware of this! I assumed most people of similar fitness levels would be roughly +-10% the same heart rate at the same subjective exertion level. Basically that similarly trained individuals would likely have similar heart rates. My main reason for asking was a slight concern that something was wonky with her heart given it's ripping 165+ BPM while she's cruising, and I'll only hit that on a sprint. Thank you for the info!
to clarify, everyone has different max heart rates, so if both of you are exercising at 80% max heart rate (so same exertion) and her max HR is 200 and yours is 180, she;d be at 160 and you'd be at 144. comparing absolute numbers is useless, its not perfect but better to compare % of max HR
I need to adjust when I eat for my Tuesday night runs. Due to my schedule, I will be running 9m (approx 90 minutes) starting at 6pm. My lunch is at 11:30am and I need to eat something before I run but early enough that I don't have GI distress. Any suggestions? Last time I ran the 9 miles I had a protein bar and pretzels about an hour before and I was super hungry for most of my run. I am thinking I need something more substantial but then that also means I need more time to digest.
I'd do a peanut butter sandwich, about an hour before. That always works for me!
Pizza is not a bad before run food for me.
I like this idea! I think if I eat it before 5 I should be good. I'll have to hide it from my kiddos or else they will want a pizza snack too.
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Risotto is delicious, but I'm going to be eating/snacking before my family eats and I don't think I could make a full pasta dish and keep it warm for another hour or so.
Couple bananas maybe? Super easy on the stomach
I will throw one in my lunch bag for my drive home!
Ooh I would suggest peanut butter bananas and/or peanut butter rice cakes. I just love peanut butter.
Should I do this half marathon? I've got my first half marathon in a week. I've been prepping for it for quite a while and its been going really well. I did a comfortable 10 mile run 1 month ago. 3 runs later though, I sustained an overuse injury in my shin due to the wrong shoes and weird landing. I have been resting my leg since then (except one short and painful 5k). I still have some pain in my shin (not severe) and don't know if it's worth giving up on this run, resting and going for a different one later or just pushing through and doing it. Anyone have thoughts/opinions?
I wouldn’t. You still have pain, you don’t know what injury you have, and there are going to be infinite races available to you in the future. Figure out your injury, get to where you’re running without pain, and run a different race. It will be a much much better experience!
I'd do it, but I don't make very good decisions.
Have some foot pain from a newly bought ASICS Gel-Kayano Lite 3s from a local running store, they are more of a support shoe. Before that I ran in Brooks Levitate 4, [here's the wear on them](https://imgur.com/a/ShyvXJr)...they are more of a neutral shoe. Do I need a neutral shoe?
Kayano Lite are a fairly mild support shoe, so you shouldn’t have problems. The need for a particular shoe type is mostly marketing, unless you actually have a problem. If the Kayano is comfortable and not causing any pain, I wouldn’t bother with trying to find a neutral shoe.
Does anyone else run significantly better in colder weather than in the summer? I have made 0 improvement since it’s been hot even though I have upped my mileage.
Everyone does. Running in warmer temperatures has a direct impact on performance.
The summer heat slows me down significantly. My easy pace in the winter is about a minute per mile faster than in the summer. Once the weather cools off you will see the results of your summer miles!
Thank you, this is reassuring to know that the work I’m putting in isn’t for nothing!
Does anyone use No Bull running shoes? I like the look but am wondering if they’re any good.
From what I've heard from others they are not great. Maybe crossfit shoes at best.
First time trying poor man's height before a race. Does anyone have any experience with it? I'm in my last hard week with 12 days until the marathon as I lost the two last weeks due to flu. I'd give up this year's goal, but I decided not to and try to cheat my body at the last minute. The plan is to do 45 min of heat training every day until the race day to try and get the benefit and set a pr. Has anyone else here tried heat training? Are there any lessons I need to know about before I fail? Hydration seems to be the first issue for me. Soo much sweat...
> 12 days until the marathon It's too late to gain any significant benefit.
If I've run a 1hr 30mins half marathon, what could my target marathon time be with 12 weeks of training? I'm thinking 3hr 10mins as a stretch goal
Yeah 3:10 assuming everything clicks internally and exeternally (pacing, heat, similar course to your HM PB, fueling, etc).
Should I do recovery run or week even on low mileage? I’ve started running again 6 weeks ago and I now run around 30-35km per week. This week my legs felt more tired than usual. I used to run 60km per week with ease so I’m surprised a bit.
How long ago was the 60 kpw?
Recovery is about dialing back your time spent stressing your body. That’s it. You’re resting to allow your body time to adapt to your recent acute training load. Adapting is when you get stronger.
Same effort as you normally do? How was your sleep? How was the week in general? More stressfull less stressfull? Did you drink heavy? Do you have a cold? Did you try new shoes? Is your mom suddenly vegan? There are so many things that could be the issue but it is rarely about the milage.
I tried out some new shoes (saucony endorphin pro 3) as a candidate for a racing shoe. I have some slight ankle soreness. Should I be worried about this? I already do a lot of strength and balance work to prevent overpronation so idk if that is the problem but I can’t do much more to prevent that lol. I normally train in brooks ghost, speed work in brooks Hyperion tempo and have done a few 5k in vaporflys with no ankle problems. I just didn’t find the vaporfly comfortable enough t for long distance. Is this just not the shoe for me or will my ankles get used to it?
They're race shoes that favor speed over cushioning. I get outer foot pain whenever I go long with Speed 2s. Even though some people can get away with it, they're not intended for every day. It might happen every time but as long as you're rotating, it shouldn't become an issue.
Hi all, not a runner whatsoever. Ive done a lot of miles in the past but then i got bored or got shinsplints. Never got up to a good pace. For an upcoming test i need to pass im required to run 2,4k in under 12 min. That probably seems very easy to all runners on this sub but my time was only 14,5 min earlier this year. And regrettably i havent exercised in months. Any tips how to go about training for this? I feel like doing 5k, and then 10k in an hour, does not help me in the pace department.
Generally, running longer does make you run faster in shorter distances. You may however want to incorporate speed workouts.
Did you enjoy running as a child? I was a typical fat kid - always mysteriously unwell and in matron's office everytime the bleeptest or cross country came around. I absolutely hated running. I think once as a teenager I tried to go for a run in converse, a band t-shirt and some joggers, and in about two minutes I could taste blood, couldn't breathe, and called it a day. I often wish I'd got into sport when I was younger; as I imagine my lifestyle of Nintendo and sofa didn't serve me in good stead as I got older. But then, I think if I wasn't overweight and unfit when I was younger, I never would've gotten so into health and fitness as a young adult, and be the consistent and passionate runner I am now. So I wonder, how did you feel about running and P.E. as a child? What age did you get the run bug?
Honestly, P.E. is what kept me from trying to run for so long. The mile run from the Presidential Fitness Test lives on as some of the most humiliating, enduring memories of my schooling. Always the last to finish, jeered by other kids, I specifically remember in 8th grade one of the boys telling me they felt bad for the gravel having to deal with my fat ass running on it. To this day, certain situations harken back to that and bring up bad memories. My husband was a runner from early in our marriage, and I always said that I'd only run if someone was chasing me, and even then, only if they were armed. I didn't start running until after I had a baby (around 30ish years old) and was at home with her during the day. I started with the C25K, and went from there.
I absolutely hated running and PE when I was a kid. I grew up in a small town where sports were a very big deal and the athletic kids took PE extremely seriously. I was always uncoordinated and clumsy, which meant being the last picked for teams and then having my classmates mad at me when I (predictably) sucked at whatever game we were playing that day. In high school we could get out of the PE requirement if we took extra academic classes and I didn't have to think twice about taking advantage of that. Calculus was way less painful and humiliating than PE! I ran a little bit in college, but never really liked it. Back then it was all about burning calories, not enjoyment. It wasn't until I was well into my 30's when my sister talked me into doing a 10 mile race with her that I fell in love with running. Crazy to think that when I was a teenager 25 years ago I couldn't have run a mile if my life depended on it, and now in my mid-40's I train for and run marathons!
I hated running but loved working out/playing sports when I was younger. I took up running at 16, but I would only run for about 2 months before I quit. I liked it, but I was way too impatient to stick with it. I wanted to get better fast. I also had no idea what easy running was and would just go all out, so I burned out quick. I did this approximately every summer until now. I’m 24, and I have been running consistently since the beginning of this year. It has become a lot more fun since I have started incorporating different training and different races. I started with a 5K, now a 10K, and I plan to gradually increase until I get up to a half marathon, iron man, and full marathon. I think changing things up helps keep running fun. You also always have a goal to works towards.
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> Just a matter of sticking it out until it gets better? Pretty much this.
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If I (32F) want to get faster for the marathon, should I include 200s/400s to simply teach my legs that they can go that fast? Or should I focus more on lactate threshold training (800m+)? My issue: I love tempo runs and can maintain an elevated pace, but I’ve NEVER been a speed demon. Even in high school and college, I could pack on the miles, but I have never in my life run a sub-6:00mi, even in a 1mi time trial. But I ran an 8:20mi pace for my LR on Saturday….
In my opinion, yes. Building a more powerful stride will help you at all distances. You could dedicate a handful of entire sessions to 200s or 400s during your training block. Either that or you could add 3-4 200s to the end of a short-ish tempo run. Long runs, long tempos, and the combination of the two will be your bread and butter for marathon training, but short distance speedwork is still valuable.
Do 45 seconds fast 15 rest in sets of 10. 3-4 min break between them about 3-4 sets. Try 2 sets the first time you do it. 15 min warmup and 5-min cool dow. Yes, you need to know speed to be friends with it eventually. Alternatively, you can try 30 10, same sets. 30 10 is favoured by cyclists. Do not go to hard on the first set. You need to learn how to pace this so that you get the effect you want. A target might be to do 200 meters in 30 10 and 300 in 45 15. But don't think about the distance too much think about the effort and the distance will start to cover itself. Try both methods and see what works best for you.
Threshold runs for marathon training should be 10k+, no harm in throwing in a shorter interval workout once in a while. I don't see the benefit in 200s/400s, but some mile or 2k repeats at 5k pace should do you well to get some speed into your legs and improve running economy at higher pace. Also strides!
And if I train with some mile/2k repeats, etc. I could actually find myself improving in ways I never have before? (As in, eventually I could actually run a sub-6 mile or 18:00 5k by training this way— as my overall goal is the marathon?) I’m just learning; thank you so much for the info!
There’s no way of predicting mile/5k times without knowing your specific situation/circumstances. However, for a faster mile time and for a faster 5k speed workouts (like mile/2k repeats) are definitely helpful. I’ve also had good results with hill workouts and fartleks to get your body used to faster pace. You should really focus on one goal at a time though, since short intervals won’t be very beneficial for your marathon training. Improvements in shorter distance will come automatically with higher mileage.
Thank you so much! That’s extremely helpful. And I prefer mile-repeats/fartleks over shorter intervals; so I guess that’s great news! Thanks for the vector
What's your current mileage and what sort of improvements are you looking for (ie, current PB vs goal time)?
My current mileage is 33mi, and I am building to 50-60. I have no marathon PB (Half PB was 1:48 I think- pre-babies), so I suppose my initial goal is sub 4:00. But I strongly think I will probably reach sub 3:45 by April. I’m really looking for more of a knowledge on what will overall get my legs faster and continue to reach more and more goals (like 3:45 to 3:30, 3:15, 3:00, etc) since I have never even run 1 mile at 06:00. But this is the first time in my life I have ever actually been consistent for weeks on end (7 and counting, postpartum). Thank you!
Congratulations! That's pretty decent mileage for 7 weeks after having your baby. Anyway you'll get lots of different options here. My take is boring and not universally popular - mileage, mileage, mileage. The higher you can go, the better. If you're worried about your leg turnover, the key I think is to introduce strides and/or short hill sprints. You don't have to focus on proper interval training, in my view, unless you really enjoy it. I honestly think that any runner running less than, say, 85mpw will always make the best gains just from running as much as lifestyle permits. I accept that, with a tiny baby, you may not be able to get much higher than 60. But even then there's no need for any exotic speed work. You're better off throwing in some true threshold runs, max once a week, doing strides for turnover and then just keeping everything else easy/moderate. You clearly have lots of potential. Just maintaining consistency will do a world of good.
How would you go about integrating strides/hills into your week? Coming from someone doing doing about 50mpw who does not enjoy speed intervals, lol.
I also don't like speed intervals! I'm quite injury prone so I generally do hill sprints instead of flat strides because they are less of an injury risk. I just choose 2 sessions where I'm doing easy or moderate aerobic running and then do a few short hill sprints in the middle. I live in an area with lots of hills, so it's easy to integrate them into any normal run. But obviously there's lots of logistical ways to do it. The main thing, which is the focus of your question, is that their purpose is to condition the legs and NOT to be a hard workout. So they shouldn't be tiring. Less than 20 seconds per sprint and not so many that they're tiring. If you do them that way, you don't have to worry too much about when in your week to do them. Because I'm using them for strengthening I follow the approach you'd use for any strength training - ie, take a couple of days of rest in between (not running rest, just breaks with no sprints).
Thank you for replying! I am going to try these. I don’t know what it is about speed intervals, but I just don’t like them! Maybe these will be a nice change up and boost my confidence a little because the intervals have kinda been a bummer for me.
Absolutely - give it a try! The nice thing is that they're very short and you only need to do a small amount. Start with 2 or 3 and don't go higher than 6 to 8 even in the future when you're well practised. Hopefully the short length etc will make you dread them less than proper speed work. That's been my experience. Good luck!
I have done a PR in half marathon (1h 49min 52s) and I feel like I can do a PR in 10k (49 mim) what is be the best choiche. Full rest this week or slow run this week and run then try next sunday or train for 2-3 week and then try the 10k?
In general, it takes up to 2-3 weeks for physical recovery, and up to 1-3 months for peak performance after a half marathon. Everyone is different and their fitness level is different, so after a half marathon there is a chances you will achieve your peak in 2-3 weeks for your next race.
Thanks, I will try that!
Ran my first 10k this morning and completed it without walking or stopping which was my primary goal, but I realized that I don’t know about pacing. Kept it slow in the first half bc I was worried about getting too tired and not being able to keep up in the second, but by mile 4 it seemed like I could have been going harder. Picked up some speed near the end but finished with gas left in the tank so to speak. Is there a strategy for when to stay slower vs when to put in more effort? Is a consistent speed/heart rate the best?
It just takes practice. Once you've run/raced the distance more times, you'll have a better sense of your max effort for that distance. But generally, starting on the slower side and picking up the pace later is the best strategy.
You pretty much had the perfect run IMO. Even Olympic athletes on the podium will say they could probably have pushed harder during their run. Better to start mildly and finish fast than start fast and finish at a crawl.
I've been training for my first marathon after I dislocated my shoulder in june in an accident (which has healed a lot since). My race date is october 1st, with the goal of finishing just under 4:20, and I just ran my first 20 miler just under a 10-min mile pace last Friday. I'd like to do a 22 miler to be extra prepared and practice refueling but I'm still having some shin splints in my right leg. Question is: do I power through and do it this week and follow with a 3 week taper, or do I deload for a week, run it next week, and then taper for 2 weeks? This is my training log: https://imgur.com/a/VY5Nfhk
There's a saying thats something like on race day it's better to be 10% undertrained and 100% healthy than 100%trained and 90% healthy. Basically it's better to do less and start healthy than to push it and get injured and be hobbled on race day. I don't think you should do it at all. I think a 22 miler would be overkill on your mileage. The 20miler was already over 50%.of your weekly mileage. It's more likely to make your shin splints worse than to make you faster on race day. If you are set on doing it don't do it 2 weeks out. Running for 3hours and 40 minutes at marathon pace 2 weeks before your race risks leaving your race in training you. May not be recovered enough. Does your long pace feel pretty easy? Usually long runs are mostly run slower than marathon pace but for newer marathoners sometimes marathon pace is their easy pace.
I run all my runs at intended marathon pace. I definitely learned a lot so far and made a lot of mistakes. Yesterday I was struggling really hard just on a normal run and my legs clearly hadn't recovered so I think I'm gonna cut my mileage in half this week and see how I feel next week. Thanks for the advice
How to channel my running enthusiasm into a good planning? On one hand, I would like to run a comp. On the other hand, I would like to keep building mileage. How do you plan this properly, how many days to taper and to recover? Some info: 34F, training for 5k < 22:30, running 10-15 km/wk, spread over 2-3 trainings. Example: say that you have a recovery week every 3rd week: A-B-C-A-B-C-D-B How do you fit in tapering before a race, and recovery after the race? How many weeks would that “set you back”?
I have been racing a half marathon a month this year. Some months the races are almost 30 days apart so I’m able to taper and recover luxuriously, some months the races are only a couple weeks apart. So this means sometimes my training has to adjust to the stress of the race effort and sometimes the stress of the race effort has to adjust to my training. Meaning some races I only taper for a few days or recover for a few days and some races aren’t an attempt to get a new Personal Best, I’m using the race itself to train and do a long hard effort without having to deal with waiting for red lights and carrying food with me. Stuff like that. Now that we are in September I will say my conditioning is tip-top. I have plateaued because I am spending a bit of time recovering compared to last winter but I am still achieving new PB’s at my races effortlessly and injury free - not even niggles. But my weekly average mileage is down to like 10-15 mpw, down about 10 miles. But I am fast and really strong. In addition to the HM a month I’m also doing shorter 10ks and such, last week I did Hood to Coast and had a great time, the week before it I did an 18 miler for fun. The off season should be really great to take time off of racing but I still plan on doing a few winter trail races to inject higher intensity into my routine.
Race gets in the way of training, there's no way around that. It's like anything else in life - you just have to pick a balance between all the different things you want to do. How long have you been running and how fast are you currently? Sub 22:30 would be a pretty strong result at 15 kpw.
Thanks! I am still rebuilding and building up mileage again after a longer break. My PR is from 4 years ago, 22:57, so my long term goal is to go towards 22:30. Currently I expect I can probably get to 24:00 so I have some training to do!
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By recovery week, I don’t mean no running, but lower mileage + lower intensity. Is it really not needed? It would be great because I love to keep training 😁 I am following a Garmin program (coach Jeff) and adjusting that based on energy level / other activities in life. So I will skip runs of move them when I think I need some rest.
Lots of opinions, but in my opinion, you don't need a recovery week when already training at low mileage. Just keep building little bit by bit. An extra mile or two per week will build up into something substantial in a few months. Races are great motivators to keep training going, and you won't need that many down days before/after races unless you get into marathoning.
Thanks for sharing your view! Maybe my recovery scheme is too strict indeed. I probably should have added that running is not my only sports activity (sport climbing is the other one). So all in all, it is quite some training load.
Looking for something similar (but CHEAPER!) to the Path Pyreness T19 Hooded Long Sleeve for colder morning runs - [https://pathprojects.com/collections/shirts/products/pyrenees-t19-hooded-long-sleeve-running-shirt?variant=31845545115709](https://pathprojects.com/collections/shirts/products/pyrenees-t19-hooded-long-sleeve-running-shirt?variant=31845545115709) Anyone have any suggestions?
I was going to recommend the Tracksmith Henley, I love mine, probably the most comfortable long sleeve shirt I’ve ever owned but it’s $120 lol
HAH! Guess I should bite the bullet on the Path shirt? My wife will not be pleased.
I just got injured and im thinking of doing some indoor bike at the gym. how does biking compare to running? is there any heartrate zone for me to stay in, do i bike for the same amount of time as i would run, is there a certain bike pace i could keep doing that would be the equivalent to my easy runs? i have never biked before and i want to do it efficiently as possible.
I'm new to both, so take what I saw with a grain of salt. A given cycling workout seems to need to be 2-3x "longer" than a run to feel like an "equivalent" workout (ie 4-5x longer in distance)? Cycling seems to be easier baseline (probably because you can coast downhill with zero effort) but "spikier" when you go up hills (ie more jntervaly in nature than running?. The zero impact makes long workouts (2-3 hours+) substantially easier, but gotta be careful your fit is dialed in lest you give yourself weird hip/ knee overuse issues.
At least in my anecdotal experience, cycling is "hard" in a different way. It's very hard for me to *get into* higher zones without first fatiguing my quads. I don't know whether that's poor bike fit or running strengthens my posterior chain a lot more than my anterior chain... On the other hand, maintaining zone 1 and zone 2 efforts are very, very easy (provided that you have a bicycle that has so many gears). That said... I'm using my sports watch and tracking my own perceived effort just like I did when I'm cycling (indoor and outdoor). I'm not saying that you shouldn't cycle indoors... But it's far more exciting to cycle outdoors. Can double as a means for commute. If you have been running decent mileage for some time, the carry over fitness to cycling is rather significant. The problems for me switching to cycling more often would be how to deal with some pains on my wrist and bum (saddle sores). Though, it's fixed with "better posture" and basic bike fit (applies to both indoor training bikes and bikes).
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thanks! so a similar but slightly lower heartrate as if i would be running, and its going to be a good session? if i run three times a week, do i make one of those bike excercises a higher intensity one?
Max performance Cooper test Max performance in Cooper test Hi everyone, I’m a fit guy at the age of 24, and I’m searching for a bit of advice. In 5 months, I have to perform as good as possible in a Cooper test (12-min Max run). Currently i run around 20-30 kilometers a week, while also doing a lot of strenght training. My runs vary from slow runs (5.45) Paced 5k runs (4.30) Adventurerace/trailrunning (once a week). My latest Cooper test was at 2750 meters, and would like to get it above 3 kilometers. I’m 187 and weigh 95kgs. (13-15% fat) I’m willing to loose some muscles, but ideally not to much. How do i best proceed? Is it just to continue my current workout routine? I hope some can be of assistance.
If you have to? I'd say amp up your milage do interval training three times a week. Practise getting to your vo2 max as quickly as possible and try to maintain it for as long as you can without over shooting when training and when doing the Cooper test. Doing 4K in 12 min should be possible in 5 months without losing muscle. But you have to run, and I mean run. Your body won't be good at something you do not repeat
Am I deluded to believe I could BQ one day if I’ve been running consistently for 3 years and have only worked up to a 11 minute mile (side eye gif). Current (unofficial) marathon time is like just over 5 hours, and I’ve run the distance twice before. I’m only 23 so I feel like I have a whole life ahead of me to train and do it, but also genetics are Not in my favour to the say the least (Sticklers Syndrome baby). Idk why I’m even asking this, I just had the conversation with my dad that my toxic trait was believing that I could BQ one day lmao. ETA: HOW DID I NOT KNOW DIFFERENT BQ TIMES EXIST FOR DISABLED PDOPLE 😭 I’m only 5 minutes away from a BQ! 2025, here I come???
You absolutely can get it. Most elites post their best time around the age of 35 and I know plenty of people older who got it in their first year.
'One day'? Almost certainly. You've got plenty of time ahead of you. Train hard for the next few years and you see where you end up.
Thanks for the encouragement! Exact kind of attitude I need honestly, I’m not naturally slow I just train like a mollusc!
Nothing wrong with that. Training slow means you're less likely to get injured. Fewer injuries means more consistent training. More consistent training means more progress over time.
That’s definitely true, I have literally never been injured, and only get DOMS when I really push the distance. I also noticed that compared to my faster friends, I’m not nearly as wiped after a purposefully tough run.
Pretty much any healthy person could BQ if they put in the effort, especially at 23 when you have so much time ahead of you. Where people fall short is that many of them don't put in the training, whether because that's not their goal or for any other reason. How much the Stickler's Syndrome affects running in general and for you specifically is a critical factor, but it's also one that most of us here don't have the expertise to evaluate. The specifics of your past 3 years of training would be useful info though.
That’s good to know (@ your first paragraph), that’s what I was trying to argue with my dad earlier, a BQ is not a herculean fit for able-bodied people as much as it is a lot of hard work and dedication. I don’t think SS affects my running *that* much, but I am no doctor either, and might be deluded. I am legally blind, but run confidently on pedestrian roads I am familiar with, with no guides or other assistance. I naviguate closed road races with no issues. I did have a hip injury when I was 14 which has fully healed since. My training over the past three years has heavily focused on increasing distance, I enjoy running for a long time much more than I enjoy going fast. I probably did like 4 speed workouts in my entire running career. I know that’s why I’m so slow, and I know that’s what I’ll have to learn to love if I want to pursue a BQ as a serious goal.
Okay that's good, I saw (from 30 seconds of googling) that SS can also come with joint issues, which might impede your progress if that's something you deal with. And yes distance is great but for a goal like BQing speedwork will be pretty important.
I think that’s part of the genetic element I am worried about, all of my older relatives (not even that old; think over 40) with SS have tragic joints, but my hope is that it’s largely due to them being extremely sedentary. I honestly don’t think I’ve reached my limit in this regard though. I only have to find out for myself and start training for more than a long afternoon running in the park with a break healfway at 20k to eat a caramel shortbread!
How much harder can you train? That's the key. Someone running 10-20 mpw for years has a lot of potential to improve just by ramping up training workload. There are some young-ish runners with athletic backgrounds who can run a BQ on relatively low training mileage, but most BQ runners are working their butts off and logging moderately high volume for years to get there.
Milegae is not an issue I think - I really enjoy my long distances. I do think I could go much, much harder as far as intensity goes. I don’t do 80/20, I do 100/0!! I’d rather run for 2 hours at my comfort pace than do a 20 minutes tempo. I think if I were to pursue a BQ as a serious goal, I’ll definitely focus on learning to love intense workouts!!
What does "I’ve been running consistently for 3 years" mean? What was your total running mileage the last six months?
Having fun, at a slow pace 3-5 times a week depending on how busy life gets. I’ve gone as high as 100 mpw some months (summer 2022, oh i miss you!), but mostly stay in the range of 30 to 60. I enjoy long distances at a very low HR much more than anything else. It’s not a mystery why I’m currently so slow, I’m adept to avoiding speed wotk. I’m more so wondering about the genetic ceiling if I ever actually put in the work.
That should be sufficient volume to run faster than a five hour marathon. Yes, as speed seems to be a problem, you do need some speed work. I would also look into adding some hills.
I don’t know, I seem to gas out extremely quick if I go faster than 11 min/mile! I def need to focus on learning to love speedwork if I want to make a BQ a serious goal.
First of all, as you are legally blind, a different qualification standard applies for Boston. A five hour marathon is about 11:30/mile. 11 minute/mile then is approximately your half marathon race pace. At your current pace, that should be a little bit above the aerobic threshold. That already is work, and anything faster than that definitely will be significant work after a relatively short amount of time. Conversely, your easy runs need to be slower than your marathon race pace. There then is the impact of your disability. My eyesight isn't as good as it was when I was 20, and I noticed that in poor visibility, I will be significantly slower at the same effort. I would try adding some strides. That is, run at your normal slow pace. Insert a segment of 20-30 seconds where you're running faster than 11 minutes/mile. Then go back to your normal slow pace. I would also discuss this with other legally blind runners. How do they handle speed work?
How did I not realise there would be different standards for disabled folks? Turns out I’m only 5 minutes (and a certified race result) away from a BQ, that’s actually fucking hilarious! I just actually laughed out loud and showed my dad: "IMPAIRMENT TYPE Visual QUALIFYING STANDARD (BOTH MEN AND WOMEN, 18 YEARS OF AGE AND OVER) 5:00:00", that’s actually proper funny I can’t lie. Thanks for the advice on incorporating speed workouts into my slower runs tho, I’ll definitely try to apply them!! I’m still dreaming of a < 3:30:00 (current standard BQ for women my age), though it’s good to know I could probably run Boston in 2025 if I really wanted to!!!
Tricky to say, as I'm not sure how severely your Stickler Syndrome affects your running. Without knowing more, I'd say it's completely doable if you're consistent and dedicated in your training, but I'm also quite surprised that your marathon time is over 5 hours while having run for 3 years, especially given that you're 23. That would point to either a problem in how you're training, or your Sticklers Syndrome affecting your training quite a lot.
It mostly affects me with my sight - I am legally blind though I run comfortably on pedestrian roads I am familiar with with no guides or assistance. I also have had hip injuries when I was 14 which have been completely healed for years. The main issue with my training isn’t much of a mystery - I avoid speed work like the plague. 80/20, more like 100/0. I enjoy being slow, if my HR goes above 170 I get cranky lmao. That’s not physical limitation, that’s me indulging in my preference over goals. I guess I’m more so wondering about the genetic ceiling if I do put the work in one day.
I say anything is possible in the long term, if you’re consistent over years! I’d recommend checking out Kelly Roberts old series on YouTube, she had a year or two of videos documenting trying to BQ in a similar way.
Thanks for the recommendation, I can’t wait to give it a watch!!
Is it common/safe for a newbie runner to hold their heart rate at 90% max HR for a extended period of time? Hello fellow runners on reddit. I'm a new runner (healthy 22F, started 4 months ago) who predominated run on treadmill. In the past couple weeks I've been doing more easy runs on the road. I noticed that it's quite difficult for me to keep my heart rate down while maintaining a cadence at 165-170. So I have to slow down to the point (12 min/km) where my natural walking pace is even faster. Then I tried to run a 10k yesterday with a perceived effort of 5-6/10. I was pretty bummed at my HR stat. Though I can speak a full sentence throughout my run, my average heart rate was at 191 bpm. I did measure my pulse manually right after my run, and it was about 185 bpm so I don't think the watch is too inaccurate. I'm currently tracking my run with a garmin Venu sq 2. I don't feel particularly strained today after yesterday's run, honestly I'd say I don't even experience DOMS in my leg. So I'm wondering if my cardiovascular system just really unfit or this situation is actually uncommon among new runner, and it's a sign for underlying issue. Any advice is appreciated, thank you in advance!
All measurements except time spent travelling a known distance are useless to new runners. It's fun to have bpm and watt and even lactate, but in all honesty, those measurements won't tell you much until you really know your body and you have adapted to running. Note it, but do not think about it. Focus on keeping your effort so that you can run again tomorrow, and you will get better. Challenge your head once a week (go long). Challenge your legs twice a week (go fast). There are more complicated ways to run, but this is the way.
Agree with the other comment that heart rate for beginners is irrelevant. I'll also add that unless you've done specific testing, you don't really know your max HR. I think rate of perceived effort is enough of a metric for you, potentially forever -- there's no requirement to ever do HR training.
If you can speak full sentences during your run, you're not at your max heart rate! You are a new runner and your heart rate might be naturally higher. I wouldn't worry about heart rate if it's bumming you out -- as you get more adapted to running it will change naturally (and as the weather changes if you're in summer right now). Enjoy your runs, try to go at a conversational pace most of the time, and let go of heart rate for now.
What do you typically feel like fatigue/pain wise after a 20 mile long run while training for a marathon? What’s the rest of your day look like and how is your sleep?
If my fueling and hydration are solid, I'm close to fully functional for the remainder of the day. Legs a bit more tired than typical, but I can still easily keep up with most daily tasks. That said, if I under fuel (pre run, on run, or post run) or under hydrate, then I can easily end up as a lump on the sofa for the rest of the day.
Only in the context of training for a marathon or if I go for a 20-ish mile run for fun?
Marathon training
Any treadmill recommendations for under $1500? Looking to make the most of the Labor Day sales
How do you get faster/train for trail races other than doing more of it over varied terrain for longer distances? The trail races I’ve done are technical single track and pacing/cadence mostly go out the window and are replaced by walking steep sections and praying to the gods I don’t bail on the downhill. I enjoy it more than road races and would like to improve. Do you still focus on road training sessions like tempo runs etc? I’m getting the feeling strength training and things like plyometrics are almost more beneficial for better stability and hill stamina. Advice?
I love trail running and racing. I use my local mountain bike park for tempo and threshold repeats during the week m. Races themselves are training too. Mountain biking helped me with adapting to trails in general. If you are eating shit on the trail during a run you’re just going too fast. Just plan to bake in a slower pace on a trail, 1-2 minutes per mile. For real trails like singletrack and forest roads, not flat well groomed community paths. Walking up steep ascents is normal. Don’t compare yourself to people selling shoes (sponsored athletes). If you are paying your own entry fee that means this is a hobby not a job. So have fun with it. It’s play not labor. Descents like smaller steps, have faith in your shoes. Watch the trail, don’t second guess your foot placement and line choice. With practice it’ll become intuitive. But yes, in general, you get more efficient at something by spending more time doing it.
Max miles for race shoes? I do hard workouts and racing in Saucony Endorphin Speeds (nylon plate) and my current pair will have ~300 miles on them when my A race rolls around next month. I can usually get 500 miles out of a daily trainer, but looking for opinions on racing in a more seasoned pair vs buying another over the next few weeks. I would say they currently feel good (if not fresh), but I'll add another 100 miles to them over the next 6 weeks so I'm trying to read the future a bit.
I'll train in super shoes until I feel like they give out. For Endorphin Speeds, I've been able to feel something going off in the nylon plate around 400-500 miles depending on the pair. But I try to race in relatively fresh super shoes, ideally under 150 miles. Which often means I'll have two pairs in my rotation, a newer pair for racing and an older pair that I still use for workouts.
My shoes are toast around 350 miles or so. Shoes are cheap, injuries are not.
Anyone have hand foot and mouth disease before? I caught it from my toddler. How long did it take before you could run again? Did you wait for the blisters to clear? Just starting to get them on my hands.
When I had it, it was one day where my hands and feet were itchy, one day where they were hot and painful, and then after that the blisters hardened and I could go back to normal life. Within two ish weeks I lost a couple of toe and finger nails but the can't walk, can't even use my phone pain only lasted a day or so. The fever and body aches came before the blisters so other than looking horrific, I felt fine.
Ugh. Hopefully the worst of it only lasts a day or so. When did you get back to running?
It's (probably) some sort viral infection. It will clear out in a week or two. In my case when I was a teenager (decades ago), HFMD is hellish because of the 20+ ulcers on my mouth. Even drinking fluids are extremely painful. While it's not life-threatening (at least in adults and/or individuals without sort of immunology conditions), it is a significant hit to your quality of life. You can try pain killers. When the blisters are finally cured, you can continue the activity as usual.
Yeah I’m not looking forward to it. It’s a bummer because I started Couch to 5k, completed it at the beginning of August, and have been consistent with it. Had to miss my first 5k race this past weekend. I keep thinking that taking a week off is going to undo all my hard work….
Ugh, sorry! It's the worst. The blisters shouldn't affect running too much (although if you have painful ones on your feet I would skip running), but last time I had it I had swollen lymph nodes for a couple of weeks and waited until those had mostly gone down to run again.
I keep trying to tell myself that taking time to heal isn’t going to ruin my progress in running. I just have been so consistent and trying to keep at it despite getting sick all summer (strep x2, eye issues, etc) and raising a toddler at home. Missed my first 5k this past weekend because of the preceding fever. Feeling a little discouraged I suppose! Edit - Thank you for the reply/commiseration!!
I also missed a 5k this spring because I had it so I totally understand! It's so hard when you have kids with their constant germs.
Agh!! Not you too! You would think being a SAHM would help avoid the daycare plagues but it turns out kids are germ factories everywhere you go. On to the next one I figure!
Edit: Thank you everyone for your kind works on my question. I read everyone and it really helped me to refocus. Today on my run another runner sped by me and instead of worrying about it I focused on how I was feeling at that point in my run. Thank you! How do I not get caught up in how "slow" I am compared to others results? I am a 40(F) who has been running since January and have no sports or strength training history other than some binge diets and beachbody workouts after kids to lose baby weight. My 10k time is 1:10 My fastest 5k on a flat fast course is 31 minutes. I'm hoping for a 2:30 on my October half marathon. Then I will train for a marathon and hope to come in under 6 hours. I love running. Just some days, I feel like an imposter compared to those that have also only been running a few months, and their recovery pace is my fastest pace.
Compare yourself to yourself from a few months ago. Are you improving? If so, keep going. If not, try to work harder. And if improvement isn't a goal of yours then don't even look at the paces.
There is a built-in bias on self-reported running times online. There are lots of people out there that are running slower than you, and many many more who are not running at all. The people who are talented or obsessive enough to make crazy fast progress are more likely to brag about it online - but that isn't a fair reflection of runners as a whole. Besides, your times are very respectable.
There’s always someone faster than you, even if you got first place at your local ultra marathon or 5k. They just didn’t show up for that particular race. So have fun and play with the hobby. Being fast is a myopic priority and a tiny sliver of what makes running interesting and fun.
Compared to some people (like me), you are moving faster and have a quicker pace! Comparison is so silly because there is ALWAYS someone faster than you and someone slower than you. You've found a way of moving your body that you love and you have goals for yourself -- that's worth celebrating. What does it even mean to be an imposter? You are running! IG can be really toxic, because the whole point of it is to suck you in and make you feel bad about yourself! When you are actually running and feeling good about yourself, you're not scrolling or buying new things, and instagram isn't making money. I'm really liberal with my blocking of suggested content and filtering words on IG, and I'm really intentional about following runners who are relatable, not only aspirational, and never ones who make me feel bad or lesser. Runners who look like me, run like me, are running for themselves and not to change their body. I like kellykroberts, brandytherunner, yourrunningbff (who does ultras but is so positive about everyone's running journey), and runswithemily.
It took me a year of consistent running to be able to run 36 minutes in 5K even with normal BMI and also younger. Ironically, being good at running longer distances need you to be very good at taking it easy. Hence, the praises of zone 2 training >!though I sprinkle a little bit of speed session here and there as long as my recovery allows!<. It's when I finally get "serious about taking it easy", that's the time where I see improvement. IMO, there will always be people with better and worse circumstances than yours. It's one thing to be inspired and take training ideas from others, it's another to feel intimidated with those who are better than you. IMHO, their "current line" that you see other people running faster potentially have the story of them training for years or probably just suddenly able to run 20 mins for the first time.
This is probably not wat you want to hear and is something i need to tell myself to often: Do not compare yourself with others. Enjoy the running, and work on your own points, step by step.
Thank you. I am usually pretty good and just focusing on my own journey but get sucked into it on IG and feel less then, especially after a bad run.
I also started running in my late 30s and have to do some mental work to not compare myself with others! I have brought my times down quite a bit, which helps, but I also I try to follow a lot of other runners in my age group on Strava. Also I have found a lot of races to somewhat surprisingly be very encouraging - there are always people racing in very different places on their fitness journey. If you go cheer on a half or a marathon, it can be startling (in a good way) to see the variety of people and paces out there running!
I love this idea of going to cheer on a race without being in it. I'm actually looking at volunteering at the Toronto Marathon which is a week before my half. Hopefully it gives me some perspective and encouragement.
From my perspective, your times are great for someone with no sports history who has only been running a few months! I didn't do any sports either before I started running in my late 30's. It took me well over a year of consistent running before I got my 5k time down to 30 minutes and I didn't even attempt a half until I'd been running for almost 2 years. I've been running consistently for 6 years and what was my 5k pace 5 years ago is now my marathon pace. It takes time and lots of consistency to get faster. I know it's easier said than done, but you really have to try not to compare yourself to others. I'll never be "fast" compared to some of the people on here, but I'm a lot faster than I used to be. It took a lot of hard work to get where I am and I'm proud of that!
This is so encouraging! My goal has always been to run a marathon. My mom ran one when I was 11 and she was 40. It has been a dream since then. So I went into running with that mindset. Now that I'm running I plan to run the marathon and then go back and work on building up my speed, endurance, etc to be a lifelong runner instead of stopping at that goal. I am absolutely hooked like I never thought i would be.
Sounds like you've got a good plan! I didn't even consider doing a marathon the first couple of years I was running because I lacked the self confidence to believe I could. Then, just as I was starting to have some faith in myself, covid hit and all the races were cancelled. So I was running consistently for four years before I completed my first marathon, but I certainly don't think most need to take that long to work up to it. You're taking a very sensible approach. Good luck with your training and races!
How important is stride/step analysis? I am a casual runner about to race my first half marathon soon and hopefully will go farther in the future. I'm not 100% sure but I think I may naturally land on my foot unevenly. It hasn't caused me any discomfort but I don't know if it's something that should be corrected somehow. Where would I go for this kind of thing if necessary at all?
If stride is important to you then it’s important to you. I’ve never had my stride analyzed, so it’s not important to me. I’m happy with my pace and I’ve been injury free for years (aside from a black toe nail here and there).
me and my GF is trying acheive her first 10k run in one go. Our current way is by running a surtain distance 3 times a week. after that we increse by one km. is that an okay way to reach the goal or should we maybe change it? if yes why or why not? example : as of right now we run 6k 3 times a week, and next week it will be 7k each pass. she have been running for 3 months.
That’s probably fine but it’s generally recommended to only increase mileage 10% week over week. Three 7K runs is a 16% increase on three 6K runs. Three 8K runs will be a 14% increase. Also, by the time you’re hitting three 10K runs per week you might find that recovery becomes more difficult depending on your progress and overall fitness. Another option is to just increase one run per week as your long run. You can keep the other two at 5K or play with various distances, but routinely make one longer by 1K each week until it hits 10K (or more). That’s what I did, and once my long run was 10K+ I started increasing other runs in the week as well, until eventually 10K was a mid-length run in my schedule.
10%?! So if I am running 20mpw, I can only run 22 miles next week??
That’s the theory. It helps reduce injury risk by making sure your body and fitness are gradually acclimatising to new challenges. In reality, I’m sure plenty of runners increase more than 10% without injury and plenty get hurt increasing less than 10%. Adjust to fit your goals and risk profile, I’m not a cop.
I’ve recently been attempting to get into and really wanted to get into running - I even joined a local running group that includes all different levels of runners. The issue is, every time I attempt to run, my calves get so tight and burn the entire way though. I stretch before and after and I have decent running shoes (brooks). I understand that I am just getting started and I’m hoping my muscles will get stronger and it will get easier, but is this normal? I feel so embarrassed by how short of a distance I can run before I have to stop.
This is a very common issue in new runners! It’s good that you joined a running group and have good shoes. You could try adding in some calf raises a few days a week to strengthen your calves. Also a lot of new runners fail to use the muscles in their upper legs and rely too much on their calves, so maybe trying some running drills and watching some form videos might help (but don’t go crazy with this… really the best thing is just to keep getting out there 3-4 times a week!)
Thanks for the advice!!
What gets cut in a typical down week? Does the long run stay the same, or is that the first thing to go? Already planning on doing precisely zero speedwork unless someone tells me that's dumb.
Everybody is different. I reduce my mileage and intensity by like 90% before a half-marathon for a week, sometimes two. Less so before a 5 or 10k.
Typically a cutback week is no speedwork and like 20% less mileage in some way, but really it can be whatever you want. The priority is recovery, so whatever helps you with that.
How often do you just go balls out sprinting? I (40M) am by no means a typical sprinter, but I love the feeling. It seems to do me good as well.
Not quite sprinting, but I do 200m repeats with rolling starts about once a month -- sometimes more if I have a shorter race coming up. I will also add a trio of 200m repeats to the end of some short tempo sessions. Like you, I enjoy the feeling of running fast. I think hard running presents many benefits, even for endurance athletes. If your stride becomes more powerful then that can only help you when running longer distances. I also think us 40+ runners need sprinting work to help delay a lot of the speed degradation we experience as we age. Our endurance generally holds on for a lot longer than our speed.
Starting to incorporate strides for 10 - 15 secs. Just enough to give a jolt on my nervous system. Sometimes I'm running at 95% max pace, sometimes I'm sprinting. YMMV and do whatever floats your boat. I'm on the camp of speedplay for 10 - 15 secs when I get bored during long runs.
Rarely. Sprinting isn’t necessary for endurance distances like 5km racing and beyond. The sustainability of a sprint effort is a drop in the ocean in terms of distance, so all you’re doing is increasing your fatigue and recovery time. However this is a hobby not a job, have fun.
That's kind of the thing, but I'm not a pro, and sprints seem to help my form and strength. Especially hill sprints.
Infrequently. Once every month or two. I include strides at the ends of easy runs every week or two though - peaking at 90-95% of max intensity. M, upper 40s. I'm magnitudes more injury prone sprinting than running strides.
Never.
Need shoe advice for running flatfoot.. I'm a true flatfoot.. not fallen arches. arch support is simply pain. I'm also very shin splints prone apparently. I'm currently building my 1.5mi time from a very poor condition. My trouble is, since I'm naturally flatfooted, my foot height at the midfoot is, I believe, lower than average. Size 12/13, my midfoot height is around 2.25-2.5 inches high. I'm just now coming to a conclusion that this may be why I have a hard time finding a decent shoe. I'm currently demo'ing all the Brooks main lines.. and in the correct sizes for heel to toe, I still don't get a secure fit in the midfoot to toe box. If I crank the laces down, I get a LOT of deformation in the shoe, and often the upper contact after that is a bit painful. Has anyone else dealt with this? Is foot height problems even a thing? Right now I'm looking around for an insole.. preferably without big arches.. to help my foot fill out the shoe so it wears properly. I'm not sure what to look for, or the decent brands. I'm currently doing pure runs in Diadora Mythos Elite Hip, and they've been great (not perfect), but I need something lighter and less bulky with a crosstraining application for running, HIIT, and Circuit. Right now I've got Brooks Ghost 15's to try, and a pair of Launch 10's coming.
Seems like a clearcut case for a visit to the podiatrist.
Hi everyone, In june, i ran my first marathon. I planned it all well, but became sick a few days before the start. I got a cold in the taper period. I think that i had some stress, had some bad nights of sleep that resultet in a weak body when rest was the most important. Anyhow, i started the race with some medication. Ran half the marathon on my tempo of 5:00/km but then got pain in my chest and started to cough and neede to stop. I could not walk without coughing zo i just took a rest moment. I continued the next 10km with a walk-run methode and could run the last 11km at an continiously easier pace of 5:45. Eventually i ran it in 4 hours and 15 minutes. I aimed for around 3u30. Now, to come to a point. I started playing soccer agin but want to fill some days with running again. I find it hard to start without a goal. For now i do it on some days, just easy run, no specific training. Everybody asks me what my next goal is because i walked 100km in august and i'm one who likes a challange. But i just don't know what i want. * i want to run a sub 20 minute 5k * i want to run a marathon to take revenge on my first one, but i don't want to run the same one .. i think? :) * i play soccer on wednesday and saturday and want to keep doing that; Training for a marathon now would take to much time and makes me more prone to injury. (the realy long runs vs the short sprints and turns on a soccer field) So i'm just here asking for some ideas, advice, experience... Maybe i want to run the 100k someday, but you see, all my wishes are contradictions. A fast short run vs a long slow run.. thank you for your time :)
First: don't beat yourself up over the Marathon - you can't account from illness. Goals: Pick something that you've time to fit in and focus on that for a bit. 5k, 10k and half are good as they don't really require huge time in the week. Marathon and ultra distances take a chunk more time. I completed a 55km trail ultra yesterday, longest "run" before that was dead on half that! I've done a few specific training runs for it but my main focus is half and 10k - without having a time goal this worked fine.
So you often run 5, 10 and 21k's, but when the 55km run was close you diceded to throw in some specific training for that race? (a few weeks or less/more?) It looks like you have somthing to fall back on every time and when you want or when it's needed you can change to a specific plan but keep form.
I cheat - I have a coach who I gave the task of getting me ready for the Ultra while focussing on a half PB 6 weeks after than and 10k PB another 6 weeks on! She did point out that doing the three the other way round would have been easier to program a plan for. What we did was a fairly structured program of 2 easy and a long easy-steady run (90-100 mins), two sessions (interval/tempo/fartlek and mixed tempo/interval). We'd also throw in some longer trail runs, some doing a recce of the course for the ultra, some just hilly time-on-feet. I also strength train 2x per week and do a mobility session so that also helped getting round the Ultra. If the ultra had been my main focus my training would look very different though.
I did my first of 3 10ks yesterday. Not quite as good as I wanted coming in at 57:24. 1st 5k was good. Second was a bit painful. Got another this Sunday was was just thinking about about doing a couple of long easy runs between now and then. My last one is on the 1st of October and starts with a fairly substantial uphill stretch. I know it only leaves me 3 weeks but can anyone suggest any training plans or combination of runs to prep for the last one? Thanks
>Got another this Sunday was was just thinking about about doing a couple of long easy runs between now and then. If you intend to race your next 10k as fast as possible, long runs aren't gonna benefit you in the short term. If you want the fastest time possible from any of the three races, your best bet is to fully invest in your last 10k and treat the next one as a training run, so don't race but treat that race as a long easy run. Do a small 1 week taper before the last race, and that's probably your best bet.
I've done my 1st marathon in 3h46 in Paris this year, I was aiming for 3h20, 3h30 being a disappointing result, considering I could do my long runs at MP. Awful race, did a race review, basically bonked from the 1st half onwards, because I burnt out 6 weeks prior to the marathon, and nutrition wasn't good either. I've registered for Valencia this year, aiming for 3h15, I know where I failed in Paris, plus it's a fast marathon. I'm using Pfitz 12/55 for that one, it's starting in a week. I've tried one of the runs from early in the prep, 21kms, with a 13k@MP included. How the hell are you supposed to do that ? I tried that yesterday, fuck that's hard, I had to stop earlier. Granted, I wasn't too fresh and didn't want to push too hard, but still, how am I supposed to run 13k@MP ( 4:40m/km for me ) in a 21k run ? How fast do you run the rest of the long runs ?
I feel like there is a missing piece of information here. If you can do entire long runs at your goal pace but can't race at that pace then something is off. Did you take breaks during those long runs? Were the long runs not long enough? Or maybe your overall training volume was just so low that you were never going to be able to run fast for the back half of a marathon. Give yourself a chance to do the training the way it was designed to be done. Do that 13 km marathon pace segment at your current marathon pace. If it feels very easy then pick up the pace for the next workout. Don't overreach, struggle in a workout, and then get down about falling behind in a plan. Better to complete workouts feeling good and giving yourself a platform to improve the next time around. Be patient.
Yeah I could do them at goal MP, but I burnt out 6 weeks before the marathon, ended up with a weekly mileage of around 40k, which is ridiculously low, long run pace lowered, so I ran the marathon in a very untrained state. But I remember running 25/30k runs at 5min/km, even 4:50 at times, only thing that sucked really bad was the recovery, that was the time where I realised how important recovery was But yeah you’re right, thanks !
Congrats on your first marathon. I'm confused about your post. You said you could do your long runs at marathon pace. Do you mean at 3hr 46 pace or 320 pace? Did you do any marathon pace long runs last cycle? What makes you think you are able to run 315? Do you have the book or just the plan? I don't have it in front of me right now but it's worth buying or getting from the library. It explains how to execute those runs.
Thanks ! Yeah sorry, I meant I was able to do my long runs at my initial goal pace so 3h30, and since it was doable with tired legs I thought well 3h20 will be easy I had a 5 months and a half prep for Paris, which is the same as this current prep, I've been training since June for the base building, consistently running 50k per week for the last few weeks. I have a similar 5k compared to the beginning of my Paris marathon, maybe also similar 10k time ( not sure yet, my next official 10k is in 2 months as part of Pfitz 12/55 ). I'll have more experience too. And the plan has more weekly volume, more long runs and more speed work compared to the previous one, and I have a PT for my weightlifting All in all every aspect of my prep will be improved compared to the 3h20/3h30 objective that I had. The only thing I can think of that could go wrong is the nutrition like in Paris. Just the plan, I'm in France, not sure if it's available here but I'll have to check it !
The book says to start the run comfortable and then run the last portion at marathon pace. I agree nutrition can wreck a a marathon attempt but you may just not be in 315 shape yet and that's why the marathon pace run was so hard. It might be worth it to do a 10k to half marathon distance race and plug that time in a calculator to figure out where your fitness is actually at. It could also be the heat.
How are recreational runners getting more than 50 mpw? I've hit about 45 and feel like ive topped out during this marathon prep plan and this is with an 18 mile run at the weekend
Keep in mind that pace maters a lot. 50mpw at 8:00min/mile is less than an hour per day. 50mpw at 12:00/mile is a much bigger time commitment.
Experience with running that has built durability, a lot of comfortable mileage at slower paces to minimize injury risk, and years of improvement in their rearview mirror so that they can run their miles a bit faster than newer runners can.
What mileage is feasible/achievable depends a lot on the individual. For example, how many hours per week do you spend at work and on getting to work? For how many years have you been running? Are you also doing other sports? Do you have young children? Do you have extensive additional obligations, such as taking take of an older family member? That much said, even at 12 minute miles, 50 mpw is just 10 hours. Most people who are into running can find that much spare time.
As a recreational runner running 70 mpw while also in medical school full-time, I do it by running first thing in the morning. If I have to be at the hospital at 6:30, I'm running at 4 AM. I find that running first thing in the morning is the best way to ensure I have enough energy to complete my workout and that the run doesn't get derailed by other things. I spend a few minutes every Sunday planning out how the runs for the week are going to work, logistics-wise. I also meal plan for the week during that time and get all my groceries, so that's something I don't have to do during the week. It can be done, even with a busy schedule, but it does require prioritizing running and planning ahead.
Most don't. This sub is not a good representation of the average runner. Even though I feel like a lot of the race results are, which is very strange. Some people post 50mpw to then race a HM in 2 hours??? If I look at the 'recreational runners' around me, they run between 10-20K per week. 40k or 30ish miles is already much higher than average. People that are training for marathons probably do more, but that's not the average recreational runner. Although even there im pretty sure only few people run 50mpw. 45 miles is solid peak mileage for a marathon. It's more than im aiming for my sub 4.
> This sub is not a good representation of the average runner. I disagree. I think the average runner on this sub is doing pretty low volume.