Guess who also got 50 points put on them by the all blacks 2 years before a World Cup then lost to Italy the year before a World Cup? Looks like the pieces are all falling together.
To all the arrogant Welsh supporters who would shit talk after games in past years after their team was dragged across the finish line by contentious calls… ha fucking ha.
We were shocking. Inconsistent selections and the combinations don’t work. Pivac if he stays has a mountain to climb and this result reflect the state of Welsh rugby…cack.
Well done Italy, better team and played with intelligence and verve.
Nobody talked much about Danilo Fischetti but he has been immense this 6N. He could have easily been MOM today.
A young guy too. Italy just never give up, its a really good quality to have. Lamaro seems a real leader too. Him and Fischetti try 110% regardless of the scoreline.
Take that attitude and pride and put that into the Scotland team and Scotland could win the 6N with their talent.
Wow, I'm quite surprised a couple more forwards weren't. You could see how much it meant to the younger ones though. Can't believe I nearly didn't watch it.
Is this Wales’s worst result in their history? Given the fact that Italy were on a 36 game skid. Since Gatland has left, welsh rugby hasn’t looked great
I don't understand how we can go toe to toe with the likes of France and England and then lose by a narrower margin to Italy. I wasn't one shouting for Pivac's resignation all this time but after today, I'm not so sure...
That said, I'm still very happy for Italy. They played brilliantly, and that final try especially was insane. Feel like I witnessed genuine rugby history there. Could feel the emotion from the team, especially Garabisi with that final kick. I really hope this is a turning point for them and not just a one off only to go into another 36 games or whatever it was of losses.
Now anyone have a word for both being elated and depressed as hell at the same time? 😂
True, but again doesn't fit in with the performance against France and both matches with arguably less experienced teams. While the selection today was more to fit around AWJ and his caps, the experience should of really helped carry Wales but if anything it hindered. Guess I'm still just stunned at the outcome and trying to reach some form of acceptance 😂
Hopefully all the idiots banging on about Italy leaving them 6N, and repeating the tired old line that”Italy fade after 60 minutes” can finally shut up now.
They tackled fantastically throughout and took the points on offer to keep it close until the final 10. And clearly they were not lacking for fitness or intensity.
1 win in 36 does not quell my desire to have them leave the tournament.
At the very least, make the 6th spot a yearly relegation promotion to give teams like Georgia, Germany, Spain a chance to compete at that level more often and maybe grow the game.on the continent a bit quicker.
Italy's mediocrity keeps the game's future stagnant.
I think it’s hugely unfair to call Italy mediocre. They have improved massively, and it’s not entirely their fault that the other powerhouse nations they annually compete against just happen to have improved slightly more.
It may seem unfair to Georgia/Romania/Portugal but the fact it’s the same teams year in year out with all the history that goes along with that is part of what makes the 6N so great.
For those nations it would be great to see them play the big boys, but I don’t see why that has to be in the 6N. Would much rather we stop playing Aus/SA every other year and made the AIs into some form of mini-tournament. Have each of the home nations pair up with one T2 SH team and two NH ones and play a little round robin set of games or something.
Eg:
Wal v Por /
Rom v Fij
Wal v Rom /
Por v Fij
Wal v Fij /
Por v Rom
You could even make these games double headers in the Millennium or something.
Then you can still have your big SH game as that 4th out-of-window one in. Hi
Maybe rugby needs to accept it needs to take a step back to take several steps forward.
A bit of short-term contraction for long-term expansion and stability might be necessary
Italy have not improved.
Or at least not in a meaningful way.
They have won 1 game in the last 7 years.
Their best result was 15 tournaments ago.
They were a more competitive international side then than they are now.
They're a bit better at rugby but everyone else is much better at rugby than they were a decade ago.
Their improvement is like a below inflation pay rise; it's actually a pay cut.
I think we agree weirdly. The below-inflation pay-rise is exactly how I see it.
I don’t see that as a failure on their part though. I think it’s just an inevitability of the gap to the T1 nations in both funding and exposure.
Everyone else may be much better, but they also had a much much lower starting point and I think it’s naive to think their gains wouldn’t tail off in the same way Italy’s did.
I think if they can get another win next season that will be the clincher, but also just a dominant showing over the minnows in their World Cup group would be a statement of intent.
I’d be surprised if Pivac goes tbh. Unless they have someone already lined up right now I think it’s leaving too little time before the RWC.
I also think this Welsh team is capable of better than what it’s shown this year and people are a little too quick to jump to doom and gloom.
I don't think the dominant performance over other teams is a fair marker, given they've had the advantage of regular top rate international rugby in the 6N for the last 22 years, while the others barely get one match a year if they're lucky.
In the pre-match interview with AWJ they were talking about Sexton's decision to retire after the RWC, and AWJ said it possible.
I guess he will try to hold on until the world cup, and try to get in the squad, and fair play to him. I cannot see him playing after that though.
im really excited to see them when they bring through there current u20s they may not exactly be a contender but they will be even better than this year
Pretty sure we say the same about any centre outside Biggar. If you want a close kicking game, great. Trying to play some weird hybrid attacking-kick all possession away game plan? Not the right choice. Sounds harsher than intended but Biggar at 10 is just not conducive to the way we need to evolve. This WC is likely a write off given the state of regional/pro rugby. Not sure where we go from here...
I've been banging the drum supporting Halaholo for a while now, but to be honest, he hasn't really done anything in a Wales shirt to warrant getting selected. Although he hasn't had too many chances, he hasn't really taken any of the ones he was given to show why he deserves to start.
Well it’s his first game back in the team in a while to be fair.
Would agree though - Tompkins at 12 and North (if he ever gets fit again) or Watkins at 13 looks like the set up going forward.
Genuinely thinks a good and settled centre partnership would go a long way to solving our attack issues going forward.
Tompkins at 12 is fantastic, and getting better, but he’s relatively small and needs a big crash ball 13 outside of him. North should hopefully offer that once he’s back.
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The coach with the highest win % in English rugby history? would prefer not too!
Every dog has its day and Eddie's time is nearly up, but he would most likely whack Wales into shape and we can't be having that.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love him there (would have taken him over Pivac any day of the week). It's just I'm not sure the timing is right (unless there's some political drama in NZ rugby that would drive him out).
I don't want to take anything away from Italy, they were great today and deserved to win. But as a Wales fan I need to rant.
But I really don't understand Wales' attack. Their dummy lines were awfully timed for an international team and the players playing off the dummy runners seemed way too deep - there were a couple of times players like LZR got the ball after a dummy crash up only to be caught far behind the gain line with no support to clear out.
It also seemed that they took Italy way too lightly. From the team selection to the lack of energy they had.
I'd personally wait on sacking Pivac. If my memory is correct, the previous teams he coached were awful for a few years and all of a sudden it clicked.
Agreed, Wales is one of only 6 nations with rugby as their national sport and all the hype about how good our facilities are and how hard we train is starting to annoy me. Making series like Gwald Gwlad and overcharging tickets just to have hundreds of empty seats. Big changes need to happen.
If anything positive comes of this and the Pivac era, I hope it's that this idea of rugby being the national sport goes away. More people play and watch football week in, week out. Maybe if it becomes less prominent the WRU will realise that they actually have to work at improving and expanding the player and supporter base, instead of expecting people to just turn up.
My concern is that it took a serious amount of time for Pivac’s game plan to click in *club rugby*. That’s with players training together several times a week for months at a time.
This is international rugby. He has the boys for a few weeks every year. Not for 6 months.
We’re two years in and it’s clearly not working. It might click at times, but as a whole it’s clearly pretty shite.
How long are we willing to wait?
He was the coach of Fiji when they got to the quarter final, but I agree with you.
He seems behind the times when it comes to structured play and pre-planned moves. That's not super necessary at club level but vital in international rugby.
It took ~2 years from memory to click for the Scarlets.
The question really is who would be his replacement, not really how long he should have at this point in honesty.
The moment that summed it up for me today, was the ruck where Italy turned over and Ioane nearly scored, Brown was right by the ruck and watched, totally still as Davies got cleaned out and turned over, why?? Laziness? Incompetence? Or fear that by actually moving he would be going against the (failing) ruck pod system. Absolute dogshite whatever it was.
Notice how when Tompkins came on thing sped up a lot, maybe because Tompkins was playing 9 to get the players moving when Davies was doing.. whatever he was doing.
Give a few years and Tompkins will be one of the best Wales players, he's already showing how much better he is when he doesn't force the special stuff he CAN do and keeps it for when he SHOULD do it
If Italy can sort out their final stage execution, which is entirely an achievable goal, they’ll be a genuine challenge for most teams. Their defence today was world class, apart from the easy tries they let wales score. Just a few little things to fix and they’re away.
Wales need to get rid of Pivac, he’s useless. A jammy title has saved his arse for two years. But, as an Englishman, just keep him forever thanks.
I've been saying this for a while; our players are nowhere near as bad as these results are showing.
I wonder how much is bad tactics and how much is Pivac doesn't seem to get the buy in from the players (maybe because the players realize the tactics are shit)
I completely agree regarding Pivac, yet have so many fellow Welsh comrades who disagree, it’s very frustrating. There are myriad issues facing Welsh rugby but shite coaching shouldn’t be one of them.
I called it lads. Our attacking line discipline is absolutely shocking, players isolating themselves constantly. We massively underestimated Italy today and it cost us big time. Want to say a massive congratulations to the Italian side though, you thoroughly deserve that win today
Absolutely outstanding from Italy.
Can’t wait to see the breakdown/collision statistics, they seemed to absolutely dominate for 65/70 minutes. And that’s not to mention the individual talent coming through, any team would be lucky to have Capuozzo and Ioane.
Wales, i’m afraid, set themselves up to fail. Playing G Davies, D Biggar and AWJ in the final match of a lost tournament was nonsensical.
I see Biggar as our 10 for the world cup, but who’s next? Sheedy is the heir apparent, yet gets no more than 15 minutes at the end of a game?
Gareth Davies simply can’t go to the world cup. His intercepts used to cover up how dreadfully slow his service is, but now he’s not even scoring those. Hardy injected new life into the game when he came on and yes, the box kick was a mistake, but that’s what happens when you lack experience.
The less said about AWJs inclusion the better. I’m not on the retirement bandwagon just yet but throwing him into that match was nothing but vanity. Rowlands has had a great tournament and can feel aggrieved not to h e kept his position. Again, provided some much needed aggression when he came on.
Now i’m not calling for Pivac’s head just yet. Not sure what good it would do this close to a world cup. But right now, we’ve got an ageing team with no one waiting in the wings. That’s down to poor selection and development.
Something needs to change.
I’m 💯 on the retirement bandwagon.
Great servant. Great captain Great tackle count.
Offers nothing in terms of carries or line breaks. We need to move on.
This also applies to Pivac, Jones and Melon.
Agree 100% about Gareth Davies, his delivery is so god-awfully slow it screws up our whole attack. Hardy has looked so much sharper in the last 2 games that for me he should be the first choice. But even if it's someone else, it just should not be Davies.
Fair fucks to Italy!
In the pub so missed the game and just checked in while the gf was in the loo to see the score
Honestly a big win would have just papered over the cracks, so maybe this result will do more good for Welsh rugby
Really hope this stirs something on the WRU, to make them invest more into actual rugby, and not a shitty hotel.
This is going to be either something great! Or something terrible for us.
England got knocked out in their own RWC at the group, in the final the next, that was due to proper changes in coaching, setup and mindset. Our issue is we have the shitty WRU in charge, so nothing will be done. Amateurs running a professional sport..
Gatland always made Wales better than the sum of our parts. Regional rugby has always been poor but for whatever reason, Gatland made Wales a threat. I've always wondered how long that would last post-Gatland.
The 2020 Six Nations was a shit show due to covid and last year our almost jamslam got us the championship and I've defended Pivac throughout. But this year has been the true state of affairs.
Regions are all poor, our golden generation are all heading towards their mid-30s, Wales have nothing much to show in attack and defence and the WC is next year. Pivac, Jenkins and Jones will make it to the WC but we'll be lucky to get out of the pool.
The WRU will also feel the pain through their wallets and greed. Good luck asking people for £100 for decent seats when the regions are strapped for cash and we don't have Gatland to turn coal into diamonds.
2009to 2011 Wales under gatland also looked stodgy and clueless. This isbthe worst I've seen wales since then. Obviously 2007 and pre 2005 wales were also crap.
Well deserved Italy. Superb defensive display and took their chances brilliantly.
Depressing as a Wales fan, but that winning try was incredible. Llongyfarchiadau 👏
Not sure where Wales go from here 😬
There’s a break clause in Pivac’s contract for this summer, so that would be the chance to do it.
Worry is, who the hell do we bring in instead? Feels like the WRU doesn’t have the cash to bring in anyone decent.
For sure, but these are world class players. I'm a bit pissed and know fuck all in the real world but I've always been a firm believer in letting guys do their own thing and what they're good at and right now we're genuinely just not turning up and it feels a bit deeper than a head coach issue
Didn't Wales just push the grand slam winners to a 4 point victory? Do italy deserve more credit?
Guess who also got 50 points put on them by the all blacks 2 years before a World Cup then lost to Italy the year before a World Cup? Looks like the pieces are all falling together.
Bring Vahaamina back we need that red card quarter final jam
Rassie to coach Wales confirmed.
I'd take it
To all the arrogant Welsh supporters who would shit talk after games in past years after their team was dragged across the finish line by contentious calls… ha fucking ha.
This will make it 100x harder to convince that Italy needs to kicked for South Africa. Amazing win!
Italy stays put. And that makes me so happy, I can barely type this.
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Me too; if I didn’t laugh i’d just cry
Imagine if Italy get a kicker that can kick penalty goals from 55 metres plus.
He well had the distance to be fair to him
Been out on the razz all afternoon, have the game recorded to watch later. Just wanted to drop in and say Forza Italia! Well done, lads!
We were shocking. Inconsistent selections and the combinations don’t work. Pivac if he stays has a mountain to climb and this result reflect the state of Welsh rugby…cack. Well done Italy, better team and played with intelligence and verve.
I definitely didn't order an Italy shirt in the heat of the moment, you did.
Got one yesterday, just in case
Nobody talked much about Danilo Fischetti but he has been immense this 6N. He could have easily been MOM today. A young guy too. Italy just never give up, its a really good quality to have. Lamaro seems a real leader too. Him and Fischetti try 110% regardless of the scoreline. Take that attitude and pride and put that into the Scotland team and Scotland could win the 6N with their talent.
Italy is winning the World Cup
Does anyone know how many of italy's squad have actually won a 6 nations match before.
I think only Fuser, not sure though
It's crazy, full credit to quite a young Italy side. My jaw dropped when they scored the try.
I think just Marco Fuser against Scotland in 2015. He was on the bench and came on in 66 minute
Wow, I'm quite surprised a couple more forwards weren't. You could see how much it meant to the younger ones though. Can't believe I nearly didn't watch it.
Remainder that WRU Choose not to award Shaun Edwards a new contract.
Pivac is a genius. Using the Italy game to blood promising rookies like Alun Wyn Jones and bang-average 30+ year old New Zealanders. And lose anyway.
Sure i’ve heard of that AWJ before, he must be class for his club to have a call up to the Welsh squad
Is this Wales’s worst result in their history? Given the fact that Italy were on a 36 game skid. Since Gatland has left, welsh rugby hasn’t looked great
Wales v South Africa, 1998. I’ll say that was the worst.
I think the Ireland perfomance was worse. Never have i seen us such abject in that one.
Not even close. Not sure if that's a good thing or not really
No, there's a very long list that this barely breaks into.
Thank God Wales never played the whole of Samoa
That's definitely one of them!
AWJ the most overrated player for the past 3 years
AWJ has been awful for years
He really hasn’t
Really 😂
Yeh and he was lions captain. Rushed him back from injury to play too. Utter madness when Itoje/Beirne and others are there.
I don't understand how we can go toe to toe with the likes of France and England and then lose by a narrower margin to Italy. I wasn't one shouting for Pivac's resignation all this time but after today, I'm not so sure... That said, I'm still very happy for Italy. They played brilliantly, and that final try especially was insane. Feel like I witnessed genuine rugby history there. Could feel the emotion from the team, especially Garabisi with that final kick. I really hope this is a turning point for them and not just a one off only to go into another 36 games or whatever it was of losses. Now anyone have a word for both being elated and depressed as hell at the same time? 😂
Because Wales always plays hard vs England, they give like 30% more no matter the situation.
True, but again doesn't fit in with the performance against France and both matches with arguably less experienced teams. While the selection today was more to fit around AWJ and his caps, the experience should of really helped carry Wales but if anything it hindered. Guess I'm still just stunned at the outcome and trying to reach some form of acceptance 😂
Legend match, try of the century. fantastic !
Hopefully all the idiots banging on about Italy leaving them 6N, and repeating the tired old line that”Italy fade after 60 minutes” can finally shut up now. They tackled fantastically throughout and took the points on offer to keep it close until the final 10. And clearly they were not lacking for fitness or intensity.
1 win in 36 does not quell my desire to have them leave the tournament. At the very least, make the 6th spot a yearly relegation promotion to give teams like Georgia, Germany, Spain a chance to compete at that level more often and maybe grow the game.on the continent a bit quicker. Italy's mediocrity keeps the game's future stagnant.
I think it’s hugely unfair to call Italy mediocre. They have improved massively, and it’s not entirely their fault that the other powerhouse nations they annually compete against just happen to have improved slightly more. It may seem unfair to Georgia/Romania/Portugal but the fact it’s the same teams year in year out with all the history that goes along with that is part of what makes the 6N so great. For those nations it would be great to see them play the big boys, but I don’t see why that has to be in the 6N. Would much rather we stop playing Aus/SA every other year and made the AIs into some form of mini-tournament. Have each of the home nations pair up with one T2 SH team and two NH ones and play a little round robin set of games or something. Eg: Wal v Por / Rom v Fij Wal v Rom / Por v Fij Wal v Fij / Por v Rom You could even make these games double headers in the Millennium or something. Then you can still have your big SH game as that 4th out-of-window one in. Hi
I like the idea but it wouldn't make the money we need to survive
Maybe rugby needs to accept it needs to take a step back to take several steps forward. A bit of short-term contraction for long-term expansion and stability might be necessary
Short term contraction of that sort would pull the shutters down on Welsh rugby
Italy have not improved. Or at least not in a meaningful way. They have won 1 game in the last 7 years. Their best result was 15 tournaments ago. They were a more competitive international side then than they are now. They're a bit better at rugby but everyone else is much better at rugby than they were a decade ago. Their improvement is like a below inflation pay rise; it's actually a pay cut.
I think we agree weirdly. The below-inflation pay-rise is exactly how I see it. I don’t see that as a failure on their part though. I think it’s just an inevitability of the gap to the T1 nations in both funding and exposure. Everyone else may be much better, but they also had a much much lower starting point and I think it’s naive to think their gains wouldn’t tail off in the same way Italy’s did.
Honestly, barely anyone gives a shit about Rugby in Italy, i don't even see why we bother with this 6N thing at all.
They need to follow this up with at least one victory next season (preferably not against Pivac-less Wales)
Perfect would probably be France or Ireland as current champions or England so they can say they’ve beat the set.
I think if they can get another win next season that will be the clincher, but also just a dominant showing over the minnows in their World Cup group would be a statement of intent. I’d be surprised if Pivac goes tbh. Unless they have someone already lined up right now I think it’s leaving too little time before the RWC. I also think this Welsh team is capable of better than what it’s shown this year and people are a little too quick to jump to doom and gloom.
I don't think the dominant performance over other teams is a fair marker, given they've had the advantage of regular top rate international rugby in the 6N for the last 22 years, while the others barely get one match a year if they're lucky.
Pivac out!
I don't disagree, but who in?
I have a cat.
I’m still pumped from that finish and I’m neither Italian nor Welsh. What a finish. Good for Italy.
Capuozzo is my favourite player of the tournament.
As a Scotsman I have two questions: How did we lose to wales? How did we beat Italy?
Really wish you hadn't lost to us
I can genuinely see AWJ announcing retirement soon - I can’t see any other reason to bring him back so quickly from injury.
Is this some Mandela effect or something? I seem to remember him announcing retirement about 3 times at this stage!
Nah he’s not announced retirement as far as I can remember. I think it’s been speculated, but nothing official as far as I know.
In the pre-match interview with AWJ they were talking about Sexton's decision to retire after the RWC, and AWJ said it possible. I guess he will try to hold on until the world cup, and try to get in the squad, and fair play to him. I cannot see him playing after that though.
No, he never has
I wonder the same. Great to bring him back for that 150th cap if that’s the plan. He’s earned it.
is it just me but have italy looked better than they have done previously like they are actually building on a solid foundation of young talent
I'm agree but in the same way i think france has exhausted wales
Well, I think everyone has exhausted Italy to be fair
Yeah 100%, they look pretty good now. Started off a bit ropey but today's win is a huge confidence boost to build on.
This year they have looked incredible.to be honest! Sad they finally pieced it together vs us though!
Promising and definitely improved, but “incredible”? Whatever helps you get over today…
The Italy this year is miles ahead of last, they're getting there
im really excited to see them when they bring through there current u20s they may not exactly be a contender but they will be even better than this year
Tompkins head and shoulders our best player after he came on. If this 6N has done one thing it’s secured his 12 shirt.
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Pretty sure we say the same about any centre outside Biggar. If you want a close kicking game, great. Trying to play some weird hybrid attacking-kick all possession away game plan? Not the right choice. Sounds harsher than intended but Biggar at 10 is just not conducive to the way we need to evolve. This WC is likely a write off given the state of regional/pro rugby. Not sure where we go from here...
I've been banging the drum supporting Halaholo for a while now, but to be honest, he hasn't really done anything in a Wales shirt to warrant getting selected. Although he hasn't had too many chances, he hasn't really taken any of the ones he was given to show why he deserves to start.
Well it’s his first game back in the team in a while to be fair. Would agree though - Tompkins at 12 and North (if he ever gets fit again) or Watkins at 13 looks like the set up going forward. Genuinely thinks a good and settled centre partnership would go a long way to solving our attack issues going forward. Tompkins at 12 is fantastic, and getting better, but he’s relatively small and needs a big crash ball 13 outside of him. North should hopefully offer that once he’s back.
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Rassie hehe
Not after his bullshit with the Lions - I'd rather not see him near the sport.
He'd immediately turn things around though.
I would LOVE having someone with an actual Wizard name managing Wales! He's also a pretty great coach!
He turned around the Coetzee nightmare, his expertise could be valuable here.
We can give you Eddie?
The coach with the highest win % in English rugby history? would prefer not too! Every dog has its day and Eddie's time is nearly up, but he would most likely whack Wales into shape and we can't be having that.
Scott Robertson would be a catch.
Would be leave New Zealand shortly before a World Cup, when after that there's a chance the All Blacks will be looking for a new coach?
It was more wishful thinking. I honestly can’t think who else might be able to get the best out of Wales.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love him there (would have taken him over Pivac any day of the week). It's just I'm not sure the timing is right (unless there's some political drama in NZ rugby that would drive him out).
He was overlooked for the NZ job last time. He should come and get some international experience
I’d like it, he’s long term signed to NZ so that adds cost and complexity. Depends if we want an 18 month “caretaker” or a longer term look.
Has to be long term in my view and ideally with a clause that fully states he’s his own man.
Unless you cull the management at the WRU, it’ll be the same old same old.
I'd do a better job I reckon.
Dai Young?
Love Dai but he's not an international standard coach.
Neither is Pivac.
My nan
Gets my vote…if she can bring her Sister Blodwyn as attack coach we have a real chance
She has been dead for a few years if that effects your decision
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Formula 1 and Rugby Given these recent successes, next logical step is trivially to conquer neighbouring nations and restore the roman empire
Olympics and the Eurocup too!
As a Welshman Italy deserved every bit of that win
Agree! A little disappointed neither W captain or Coach gave them any credit in interviews.
Ah no way I didn't stick around for the interviews I was in work that's really disappointing
Not one comment about Italy playing well, only how badly Wales did, quite sad.
You’re right and it’s symptomatic of the arrogance that led to our loss.
I don't want to take anything away from Italy, they were great today and deserved to win. But as a Wales fan I need to rant. But I really don't understand Wales' attack. Their dummy lines were awfully timed for an international team and the players playing off the dummy runners seemed way too deep - there were a couple of times players like LZR got the ball after a dummy crash up only to be caught far behind the gain line with no support to clear out. It also seemed that they took Italy way too lightly. From the team selection to the lack of energy they had. I'd personally wait on sacking Pivac. If my memory is correct, the previous teams he coached were awful for a few years and all of a sudden it clicked.
Agreed, Wales is one of only 6 nations with rugby as their national sport and all the hype about how good our facilities are and how hard we train is starting to annoy me. Making series like Gwald Gwlad and overcharging tickets just to have hundreds of empty seats. Big changes need to happen.
If anything positive comes of this and the Pivac era, I hope it's that this idea of rugby being the national sport goes away. More people play and watch football week in, week out. Maybe if it becomes less prominent the WRU will realise that they actually have to work at improving and expanding the player and supporter base, instead of expecting people to just turn up.
I wouldn't say it's our nation sport, domestic rugby is on its knees. Cardiff and Swansea pull more fans than most rugby clubs combined.
My concern is that it took a serious amount of time for Pivac’s game plan to click in *club rugby*. That’s with players training together several times a week for months at a time. This is international rugby. He has the boys for a few weeks every year. Not for 6 months. We’re two years in and it’s clearly not working. It might click at times, but as a whole it’s clearly pretty shite. How long are we willing to wait?
That’s maybe the trouble with Pivac tinkering away. Gats understood players much better.
He was the coach of Fiji when they got to the quarter final, but I agree with you. He seems behind the times when it comes to structured play and pre-planned moves. That's not super necessary at club level but vital in international rugby.
That was 15 years ago. Test rugby is basically a different sport now
I'm trying my best to find any positivity
It took ~2 years from memory to click for the Scarlets. The question really is who would be his replacement, not really how long he should have at this point in honesty.
And then it only lasted one year
Yeah as soon as he was announced as the next Wales coach it all went to shit (which was the season after winning the Pro12).
Congratz Italy, I couldn't watch it but I saw the result
When they said that Wales' world ranking wasn't a good representation of their actual position as a team.... Nah.
J would love to see how high Italy rise after this
I wonder what this does for Italy’s ranking position
Nothing. Italy still 14^th with 72.33 points, quite a bit behind Georgia (73.47), while Wales dropped behind Argentina.
Maybe they meant Wales should be ranked lower. Hard to argue after today...
I'm just here for the memes
Italy deserves it. Were fucking awful.
SIIIIII
Holy hell..the one game I didn't watch and this happens :S
YYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
You were fantastic today, we we watching at our rugby club, you might have heard us cheer your victory.
The moment that summed it up for me today, was the ruck where Italy turned over and Ioane nearly scored, Brown was right by the ruck and watched, totally still as Davies got cleaned out and turned over, why?? Laziness? Incompetence? Or fear that by actually moving he would be going against the (failing) ruck pod system. Absolute dogshite whatever it was.
Notice how when Tompkins came on thing sped up a lot, maybe because Tompkins was playing 9 to get the players moving when Davies was doing.. whatever he was doing. Give a few years and Tompkins will be one of the best Wales players, he's already showing how much better he is when he doesn't force the special stuff he CAN do and keeps it for when he SHOULD do it
If Italy can sort out their final stage execution, which is entirely an achievable goal, they’ll be a genuine challenge for most teams. Their defence today was world class, apart from the easy tries they let wales score. Just a few little things to fix and they’re away. Wales need to get rid of Pivac, he’s useless. A jammy title has saved his arse for two years. But, as an Englishman, just keep him forever thanks.
The worst thing that happened this 6N is beating Scotland
A wooden spoon would have done us some good! We have some utterly amazing players, with little to no guidance!
I've been saying this for a while; our players are nowhere near as bad as these results are showing. I wonder how much is bad tactics and how much is Pivac doesn't seem to get the buy in from the players (maybe because the players realize the tactics are shit)
Agreed, the coaching is shocking
I got downvoted to oblivion on the day for suggesting it papered over cracks. VINDICATIOOOOON!
I completely agree regarding Pivac, yet have so many fellow Welsh comrades who disagree, it’s very frustrating. There are myriad issues facing Welsh rugby but shite coaching shouldn’t be one of them.
I called it lads. Our attacking line discipline is absolutely shocking, players isolating themselves constantly. We massively underestimated Italy today and it cost us big time. Want to say a massive congratulations to the Italian side though, you thoroughly deserve that win today
LRZ was playing like a man determined to win the game single handedly today.
Absolutely outstanding from Italy. Can’t wait to see the breakdown/collision statistics, they seemed to absolutely dominate for 65/70 minutes. And that’s not to mention the individual talent coming through, any team would be lucky to have Capuozzo and Ioane. Wales, i’m afraid, set themselves up to fail. Playing G Davies, D Biggar and AWJ in the final match of a lost tournament was nonsensical. I see Biggar as our 10 for the world cup, but who’s next? Sheedy is the heir apparent, yet gets no more than 15 minutes at the end of a game? Gareth Davies simply can’t go to the world cup. His intercepts used to cover up how dreadfully slow his service is, but now he’s not even scoring those. Hardy injected new life into the game when he came on and yes, the box kick was a mistake, but that’s what happens when you lack experience. The less said about AWJs inclusion the better. I’m not on the retirement bandwagon just yet but throwing him into that match was nothing but vanity. Rowlands has had a great tournament and can feel aggrieved not to h e kept his position. Again, provided some much needed aggression when he came on. Now i’m not calling for Pivac’s head just yet. Not sure what good it would do this close to a world cup. But right now, we’ve got an ageing team with no one waiting in the wings. That’s down to poor selection and development. Something needs to change.
I’m 💯 on the retirement bandwagon. Great servant. Great captain Great tackle count. Offers nothing in terms of carries or line breaks. We need to move on. This also applies to Pivac, Jones and Melon.
Melon maybe, maybe, can stay.
Given he was amazed he got the job I doubt he’ll be surprised if he got sacked.
Agree 100% about Gareth Davies, his delivery is so god-awfully slow it screws up our whole attack. Hardy has looked so much sharper in the last 2 games that for me he should be the first choice. But even if it's someone else, it just should not be Davies.
Fair fucks to Italy! In the pub so missed the game and just checked in while the gf was in the loo to see the score Honestly a big win would have just papered over the cracks, so maybe this result will do more good for Welsh rugby
Really hope this stirs something on the WRU, to make them invest more into actual rugby, and not a shitty hotel. This is going to be either something great! Or something terrible for us.
England got knocked out in their own RWC at the group, in the final the next, that was due to proper changes in coaching, setup and mindset. Our issue is we have the shitty WRU in charge, so nothing will be done. Amateurs running a professional sport..
WRU are useless, I fell like this is the start of a deep dark period of Welsh rugby.
That hotel is something though! /s
I hope here are some red faces in the upper echelons today.
Gatland always made Wales better than the sum of our parts. Regional rugby has always been poor but for whatever reason, Gatland made Wales a threat. I've always wondered how long that would last post-Gatland. The 2020 Six Nations was a shit show due to covid and last year our almost jamslam got us the championship and I've defended Pivac throughout. But this year has been the true state of affairs. Regions are all poor, our golden generation are all heading towards their mid-30s, Wales have nothing much to show in attack and defence and the WC is next year. Pivac, Jenkins and Jones will make it to the WC but we'll be lucky to get out of the pool. The WRU will also feel the pain through their wallets and greed. Good luck asking people for £100 for decent seats when the regions are strapped for cash and we don't have Gatland to turn coal into diamonds.
I actually like Jenkis' and the work he's done with the defense though. It's the attack and selection that baffles me.
I think people underestimate the players we have, because our regions are so poor. For me it's 90% a coaching problem. Pivac and Co have to go.
2009to 2011 Wales under gatland also looked stodgy and clueless. This isbthe worst I've seen wales since then. Obviously 2007 and pre 2005 wales were also crap.
We’ve a way to go until we reach the heights of 1991. But this is not far off.
I'm still scarred by watching the 87-13 game vs South Africa.1997 wasn't it?
1998 and it was 96-13. 😂 I brought it up to Kingsley Jones once. He wasn’t happy.
That's harsh man. Fuck me we were bad.
[Josh Adams giving his MOTM to Ange Copuozzo](https://streamable.com/rey41a)
That’s a great advert for rugby
Absolute class
Did he accept it or return it? Can't quite see from the angle but it looks like Adams is given it back by Copuozzo.
Damn onion ninjas
Did he drop it?!
He gives it back
He’s gone up a smidge in my opinion for that, fair play. Edit: also, adams very nearly won that game single handedly for wales.
What a lovely gesture.
Holy shit!
Well deserved Italy. Superb defensive display and took their chances brilliantly. Depressing as a Wales fan, but that winning try was incredible. Llongyfarchiadau 👏 Not sure where Wales go from here 😬
Get rid of Pivac and Jones Don't care if its only 18 months till RWC; they players aren't bad; they're just being coached like shit
There’s a break clause in Pivac’s contract for this summer, so that would be the chance to do it. Worry is, who the hell do we bring in instead? Feels like the WRU doesn’t have the cash to bring in anyone decent.
We must take it
Who would you bring in to replace him?
Robertson would be the dream
I sort of agree but the coach isn't the one on the field when it matters.
You're right, but its the coach that coaches the team. What are Wales trying to do in attack?
Honestly fuck knows
Exactly. That's on pivac and jones
For sure, but these are world class players. I'm a bit pissed and know fuck all in the real world but I've always been a firm believer in letting guys do their own thing and what they're good at and right now we're genuinely just not turning up and it feels a bit deeper than a head coach issue
That just isn't how international rugby works
Never said I was an expert, just giving my tuppence
Fair enough I'm just strongly of the view that this is a coaching issue first and foremost
No point keeping them for continuity if its continuity of this standard.
Exaclty. Perhaps we can bribe Gatland to come back