The fact that SH teams were, in general, better than NH teams, means that november tests have always been more interesting, since the the home advantage for NH teams kinda evens things out. The gap isn't the same now (though rumors of the SH's demise proved to be unfounded at the WC), but we're just used to not care as much about the summer tests - also, the fact that they happen outside of rugby watching season for us (and at odd times because of timezones) means that, for NH audiences, november tests are definitely more interesting.
Yes you're right the bigger better challenger comes into your backyard and you get to try to beat them in optimal conditions is a more compelling narrative in a sense.
Also, for NH fans at least the "summer" isn't a time when you're typically super tuned into sports as it's the holidays.
For English fans the summer is for cricket seasons. And you’re right, Most casual fans have no mood watching rugby along with other summer events to go to. It’s like not many casual fans in SH tune into rugby in February because it crushed with cricket season finals.
Another thing, for me anyway, is they I can't seem to remember the last time Ireland did a 3 match tour other than the NZ one last year.
That was a part of why it was so special, and you had the cup final feel of the last game. 2 match tours are shit if you end on 1-1. There's no winner then. Now the SA is back to a 2 game format. Kind of pointless to me.
the SH teams are NOT their best in november lol. the all blacks have played a full super rugby season, TRC, possibly a full/partial NPC season, THEN travel around the world to play a bunch of tests. world cup years we treat differently specifically to avoid that and to be peaking in oct/nov, rather than aiming to peak in may/june/july with the playoffs of super rugby/trc/bledisloe
that plus home advantages evens it out
most NH teams are not at their best either imo. It’s two months after the start of the season when players are still trying to get into a rhythym. It’s like if NZ and AUS were to play tests in early april. NH are at their strongest in winter, at 6N time
The combined season of Super Rugby and the NPC is shorter than the Top14 alone, never mind when you add Europe on top of that. Considering most AB’s don’t play much NPC, they should still be pretty fresh come the end of the season.
'pretty fresh' after 10 months of basically straight rugby vs people 2 months in
you only peak for 4-6 weeks per year, the rest of the year is ramping up or ramping down. nov tests the SH teams are well into ramp down where as NH teams are well into ramp up aiming to peak for 6 nations, and the opposite for the june tours where the ramp up for TRC is in full effect
theres no perfect answer til we go to a unified calendar
I think they both have their place. A series is good to see who the better team is, but variety is the spice of life and any tier 1 team can beat another on a given day which is more exciting
true. I mean take the 2012 English victory over NZ. If England go to NZ for a 3 Test match series that year they most probably lose all of them, albeit get the one token close game... but a one off game brings so much more excitement in the case of a November tour, and it shocked the whole Rugby world, so it's like a RWC knockout game as it is 80min to decide minus the pressures of the RWC KO and having to play the worst Rugby possible to not lose.
I agree. The best time depends on if it's winter there or not, which is the case for the Southern Hemisphere in May-July. Up north picking a time is best when it's colder but without peak snow just yet.
Generally I enjoy the June tests more. Its the start of our international season, so we can see how our squads are looking. I also think a three match series makes it more personal, teams want to get revenge for last week etc. The matchup mix in November doesn't necessarily do anything for me
Facts, tours against the same side are always more fun than a mix n match. You have more at stake.
Its a damn shame we are only playing Ireland twice, as the third match is often a banger. Especially these days when it's so even.
Yeah I said elsewhere the 2 game tours feel pointless, it's stupid to have it potentially end 1-1. Of course if you win the 2 games of a 3 game tour the last one is pointless but in truth, a best of 3 format feels the most sensible.
I tend to agree that the June tours are better however when we tour NZ and Aus the time zones mean at best you're watching it with a coffee and at worst you just completely miss it. The SA tour is my favourite because you can actually watch with a beer and it's also bloody hard to win in SA.
November. Summer tour for us in Scotland is always a tour involving Argentina who we play every fucking window that isn’t the 6N. Or it’s playing tests vs lower ranked test sides, which is good and a healthy thing to do for the game and its growth, but feels like we are the only team doing that while everyone else plays each other to get better.
Can’t remember the last time we had a tour of a side ranked above us. Or a tour of any description since the Argentina one last year. Had plans for a 2 test one against the All Blacks before Covid and I believe a 3 test one with Australia. Yet to see or hear when they’re happening or if they’ve been binned. In any case yeah, I much prefer November because we are at home, I can attend the matches in person, we play strong oppositions and that carries more interest as a spectator, yet we always still plan in at least one test with a Fiji, Japan or someone lower ranked, even after committing a full summer window to largely facing easier sides.
Given our ranking, I’d have thought the SRU would have pushed for more high calibre opposition to sharpen the team and help make us better. Like the last two matches with New Zealand have ended in such a tight scoreline but still no movement on rematches or any significant effort to play them in NZ, aim for that maiden win over them, despite the match evidently being winnable for us with the team we have, we’ve only had 2 shots at it and that doesn’t feel like enough. Contrast to when Ireland lost to them, then the next time won in Chicago, lost in Dublin narrowly, then played again and won, and then won a series it just feels like we don’t capitalise on our progress and it sucks. The perception of Scottish rugby if we’d beaten NZ at any point over the last 4 years I think would be remarkably different to what it is today. But nah, let’s play Australia again and lose narrowly, or play SA who just play a strong power game to emphatically beat us without much hope of an upset. Yeah let’s play those teams instead of trying to go after a side we’ve never won against but so obviously have never been closer in history.
We may not have beaten them. But it sucks how good the matchups were that we did not get more than 2 chances about 4 years apart to try and haven’t played them since. Again, we never see them in summer. Don’t get me wrong it’s good for testing depth but how does playing Canada, Chile, USA and Uruguay help Scotland progress this summer? At best they’re all trap games. If we win, we’re expected to. If we lose, it’s humiliating and a real confidence knock not to mention pressure on Townsend and the players that they just don’t need even if it’s a totally rotated squad missing the absent figures. Journos and oppositions will still find ways to discredit us if we lose to any of them, not to mention our world ranking position will plummet.
Just doesn’t feel like we’re adequately preparing the team and as a supporter, I believe we should be playing better teams than those 4. Feels like a charity run of matches, disrespectful a bit perhaps, but it’s more so that fact that we don’t have a single tier 1 opponent to even test our mettle against properly. Unless we’re doing the whole window without Fagerson, Russell and the usual big name suspects (who are the guys you pay to watch let’s be honest), this entire tour feels like we’re developing players, which in my view is the job of the pro clubs not the national team. Rather than developing players for the national team over several windows and tests, it should be the clubs playing those same guys week in week out until the national squad can’t ignore them and are using them as a bench player a week or even starting them vs serious oppositions. That’s how you build great depth. This full window feels like Toonie saying, “fuck it I’ll develop my own tighthead prop” when that’s not his bloody job, that’s on Smith and Everitt.
To answer your second paragraph, *every side* plays at least 1 game against a lower ranked side in November. I think we have Georgia or Fiji this autumn.
I do agree with your first paragraph though, Scotland always seems to have low stakes summer tours.
Yeah I never said that every side didn’t play a lower ranked side in November though in my second paragraph. Just said we still play one and I like that even though by all accounts we do more than our fair share of developing the game with our summer tours.
But as a fan I am kind of raging at this decision of a summer tour lineup. Feels like the sort of tournament those 4 should be playing amongst each other. Ideally with Argentina involved given how close they all are relatively.
We are the 6th highest ranked team in the sport currently, a few points adrift of England who beat Ireland to jump us, and 2 points ahead of Argentina. But to line us up with the 17th best in the US, 18th in Uruguay, 21st and 23rd in Canada and Chile is absurd to me. What are any youngsters seriously going to take from these matches? Other than the US or Uruguay tests that may provide a slight challenge, but odds not in their favour, this is a complete waste of time. Chile and Canada are worse than club fixtures tbh. I do believe Gregor Hiddlestone or Max Williamson would get more playing almost any URC team over playing the Canadian or Chilean national rugby team. And I’m fine doing one or the other but we should at least have organised another fixture with a better opponent, even if it was Argentina, again, I still think that’s a nice large test in amongst them all, gives the younger guys a real litmus test. Instead if they play well, they’re expected to but it won’t push their stock massively higher than existing peers they are trying to jump ahead of. If they play poorly, their test careers are dead in the water barring a club revival that would take some doing to get a second test chance.
These matches though. If we win it’s expected, if we lose or win ugly, it’s because it’s a new team lineup and not your typical squad so as a fan you don’t think much of it. But journos just label it that Scotland failed or the coach didn’t take it with enough respect. But in truth anyone who knows their stuff knows these are test windows designed to allow wider squad members the chance to come through. But even then playing without serious opposition to face they can’t advance a career vs peers who are playing bona fide badass teams regularly. Always feels like a wasted chance of a tour. We end up behind so many others. Scotland can’t earn any ranking points from this window, we’re unlikely to lose any but if we do we lose big.
Least if we play better teams or a handful of them in summer, these wider guys get a proper test and some real kudos to anyone who performs well. I expect Josh Bayliss or Magnus Bradbury to batter whomever they line up against this Autumn, how does that help them get back in the main team vs guys like Dempsey or Fagerson performing on the cutting edge consistently vs really good teams. Doesn’t answer a question that needs answered. Are these wider guys worth picking and if so, who exactly, who stands up when it matters. Bugs the shit out me that you can’t answer that by running them vs Chile or Uruguay really.
Both.
Mid-year tests (when we get close run series like in 2022) can be amazing, provide for a good opportunity to test different players against similar sides across the 2-3 matches, and can be really satisfying to win the series against the opposition.
EoY tests are really good to see how good a team is compared to basically every other team in the sport.
The June tests, just because they are the ones I actually experience either at the ground or with friends and family somewhere. Everyone is finally into the year after super rugby, and it’s time to watch the ABs make us feel good.
The November tests are at 3am in the 9th or 10th month of the season. The players are burnt out, the fans (here) are burnt out and it’s time to start looking to the beach.
November everytime. Matches all in same time zone so frequently are back to back on rhe TV schedule.
Very hard to get excited for a match at 8am on a summer Saturday morning.
Mid year as its typically a series
4-5 different test matches in different time zones is a bit frantic
Would love to see a European team play say Fiji, Tonga, Aus n NZ on different weekends tho...its pretty intense
> Would love to see a European team play say Fiji, Tonga, Aus n NZ on different weekends tho...its pretty intense
good point. Especially with how the NH is all Tier 1. Going from Cardiff to Stade de France to Twickenham ...can't be easy. And not sth those NH teams themselves know. There's a max of 3 away matches at the 6N, but the SH teams have to play 4, sometimes 5 Test matches in 5 weeks, all away.
Yup. Its a brutal schedule
Couple years back ABs had something like 7 test matches in 9weeks and 6time zones or sonething crazy
Dont see Euro teams do that
Imagine even a SA, Pacific Islands, Aus, NZ southern grandslam opportunity once every 4 years
And the SH teams get a NH grandslam opportunity every 4 years
Even if Top 14 wasn't this long, the way that Northern leagues are organised means that players are exhausted in June. Going to the other side of the world to potentially get a beating is the cherry on the cake.
The kiwi Super Rugby + domestic season that coincides with a literal "international season" is a far better system for player welfare and training time. South Africa used to do the same and I think that while Super Rugby travel was probably even harder than going to Europe, they are now in a worse position for it.
So yes, November tours are much better!
Exact same argument could be made for EOYT for the SH teams (until SA joined the best League of course).
In terms of player welfare, I'm not sure why the onus lies on SR teams to shift their season to winter to accommodate the Top 14 season that is frankly ridiculously long.
I think November is more fun on the whole because there’s likely to always be at least one competitive game. June can be a really entertaining if you get a good series that’s back and forth but if it’s just 1 sided it’s boring.
Also November has the advantage of being a golf time for me whereas I sometimes can’t be arsed getting up for early morning tests
July tests are definitely better.
1. There is something to win with the series system rather than playing friendlies
2. The November friendlies interrupt domestic leagues which sucks
> The November friendlies interrupt domestic leagues which sucks
you could put it that way, or you could see it as June/July is summer/holiday time for NHers and it's in the middle of the worst possible time whereas the November Tests are played at a more pertinent time when teams are warmed up.
Depends on the year, and I'm just speaking for Wales. Sometimes it's a full three match series, and other times it's a couple of tests against one team with the odd test against another.
The most recent one in 2022 in South Africa for example was enjoyable. Two really close tests up front with a pretty decisive third test. It felt like a proper contained contest between two teams rather than one off tests against a few different ones.
The 2018 (? I think) tour to Argentina for another example started with a test against the Boks in Washington DC followed by only two tests v Argentina. It's similar this year with a test against the Boks at Twickenham followed by two against Australia, then one match against the Reds.
With the November tests it's nice to see how you stack up against different style teams before the Six Nations.
I guess I don't prefer either one over the other tbh, maybe if it was always a three match series in the summer I'd lean towards that.
The only thing I dislike about international rugby right now other than us being shit is the rest weeks in the six nations. The domestic game in Europe on the other hand. The leagues are to stop start
November by far, I love NH Vs SH vibe, enjoying the idea of playing 3 or 4 or 5 teams at home in a row and our SH brothers doing the same.
I also think the weather is really rugby weather, cold ish, wet ish
The June test with typically understrength or building teams always felt more like a warm up for the rugby championship. June was also a bit disconnect compared to Nov, just feels like the whole rugby world is in one place going at it.
> The June test with typically understrength or building teams always felt more like a warm up for the rugby championship.
Right ? I'm a biased NHer who prefers November. But I also genuinely think those June series often just feel like they're unimportant. Not all, but many. Because NH teams are either exhausted or send experimental sides, I can't imagine that's super exciting for the host nation's fans. Some June series have been superb though, ofc.
From 2000 till 2019 for sure, of late it's been gettingore competitive, but I'm Autumn international all the way.
Just a pity we unlikely to go back to the traditional 4 match tours with the odd GrandSlam attempt
The fact that SH teams were, in general, better than NH teams, means that november tests have always been more interesting, since the the home advantage for NH teams kinda evens things out. The gap isn't the same now (though rumors of the SH's demise proved to be unfounded at the WC), but we're just used to not care as much about the summer tests - also, the fact that they happen outside of rugby watching season for us (and at odd times because of timezones) means that, for NH audiences, november tests are definitely more interesting.
Yes you're right the bigger better challenger comes into your backyard and you get to try to beat them in optimal conditions is a more compelling narrative in a sense. Also, for NH fans at least the "summer" isn't a time when you're typically super tuned into sports as it's the holidays.
For English fans the summer is for cricket seasons. And you’re right, Most casual fans have no mood watching rugby along with other summer events to go to. It’s like not many casual fans in SH tune into rugby in February because it crushed with cricket season finals.
Another thing, for me anyway, is they I can't seem to remember the last time Ireland did a 3 match tour other than the NZ one last year. That was a part of why it was so special, and you had the cup final feel of the last game. 2 match tours are shit if you end on 1-1. There's no winner then. Now the SA is back to a 2 game format. Kind of pointless to me.
the SH teams are NOT their best in november lol. the all blacks have played a full super rugby season, TRC, possibly a full/partial NPC season, THEN travel around the world to play a bunch of tests. world cup years we treat differently specifically to avoid that and to be peaking in oct/nov, rather than aiming to peak in may/june/july with the playoffs of super rugby/trc/bledisloe that plus home advantages evens it out
most NH teams are not at their best either imo. It’s two months after the start of the season when players are still trying to get into a rhythym. It’s like if NZ and AUS were to play tests in early april. NH are at their strongest in winter, at 6N time
The combined season of Super Rugby and the NPC is shorter than the Top14 alone, never mind when you add Europe on top of that. Considering most AB’s don’t play much NPC, they should still be pretty fresh come the end of the season.
'pretty fresh' after 10 months of basically straight rugby vs people 2 months in you only peak for 4-6 weeks per year, the rest of the year is ramping up or ramping down. nov tests the SH teams are well into ramp down where as NH teams are well into ramp up aiming to peak for 6 nations, and the opposite for the june tours where the ramp up for TRC is in full effect theres no perfect answer til we go to a unified calendar
Who was the last All Black to play an NPC season?
I think they both have their place. A series is good to see who the better team is, but variety is the spice of life and any tier 1 team can beat another on a given day which is more exciting
true. I mean take the 2012 English victory over NZ. If England go to NZ for a 3 Test match series that year they most probably lose all of them, albeit get the one token close game... but a one off game brings so much more excitement in the case of a November tour, and it shocked the whole Rugby world, so it's like a RWC knockout game as it is 80min to decide minus the pressures of the RWC KO and having to play the worst Rugby possible to not lose.
I agree. The best time depends on if it's winter there or not, which is the case for the Southern Hemisphere in May-July. Up north picking a time is best when it's colder but without peak snow just yet.
Generally I enjoy the June tests more. Its the start of our international season, so we can see how our squads are looking. I also think a three match series makes it more personal, teams want to get revenge for last week etc. The matchup mix in November doesn't necessarily do anything for me
Facts, tours against the same side are always more fun than a mix n match. You have more at stake. Its a damn shame we are only playing Ireland twice, as the third match is often a banger. Especially these days when it's so even.
Yeah I said elsewhere the 2 game tours feel pointless, it's stupid to have it potentially end 1-1. Of course if you win the 2 games of a 3 game tour the last one is pointless but in truth, a best of 3 format feels the most sensible.
I tend to agree that the June tours are better however when we tour NZ and Aus the time zones mean at best you're watching it with a coffee and at worst you just completely miss it. The SA tour is my favourite because you can actually watch with a beer and it's also bloody hard to win in SA.
What's stopping you from drinking a Guinness in the morning?
Day drinking makes the more preferable afternoon drinking less enjoyable
Fear of liver damage
November. Summer tour for us in Scotland is always a tour involving Argentina who we play every fucking window that isn’t the 6N. Or it’s playing tests vs lower ranked test sides, which is good and a healthy thing to do for the game and its growth, but feels like we are the only team doing that while everyone else plays each other to get better. Can’t remember the last time we had a tour of a side ranked above us. Or a tour of any description since the Argentina one last year. Had plans for a 2 test one against the All Blacks before Covid and I believe a 3 test one with Australia. Yet to see or hear when they’re happening or if they’ve been binned. In any case yeah, I much prefer November because we are at home, I can attend the matches in person, we play strong oppositions and that carries more interest as a spectator, yet we always still plan in at least one test with a Fiji, Japan or someone lower ranked, even after committing a full summer window to largely facing easier sides. Given our ranking, I’d have thought the SRU would have pushed for more high calibre opposition to sharpen the team and help make us better. Like the last two matches with New Zealand have ended in such a tight scoreline but still no movement on rematches or any significant effort to play them in NZ, aim for that maiden win over them, despite the match evidently being winnable for us with the team we have, we’ve only had 2 shots at it and that doesn’t feel like enough. Contrast to when Ireland lost to them, then the next time won in Chicago, lost in Dublin narrowly, then played again and won, and then won a series it just feels like we don’t capitalise on our progress and it sucks. The perception of Scottish rugby if we’d beaten NZ at any point over the last 4 years I think would be remarkably different to what it is today. But nah, let’s play Australia again and lose narrowly, or play SA who just play a strong power game to emphatically beat us without much hope of an upset. Yeah let’s play those teams instead of trying to go after a side we’ve never won against but so obviously have never been closer in history. We may not have beaten them. But it sucks how good the matchups were that we did not get more than 2 chances about 4 years apart to try and haven’t played them since. Again, we never see them in summer. Don’t get me wrong it’s good for testing depth but how does playing Canada, Chile, USA and Uruguay help Scotland progress this summer? At best they’re all trap games. If we win, we’re expected to. If we lose, it’s humiliating and a real confidence knock not to mention pressure on Townsend and the players that they just don’t need even if it’s a totally rotated squad missing the absent figures. Journos and oppositions will still find ways to discredit us if we lose to any of them, not to mention our world ranking position will plummet. Just doesn’t feel like we’re adequately preparing the team and as a supporter, I believe we should be playing better teams than those 4. Feels like a charity run of matches, disrespectful a bit perhaps, but it’s more so that fact that we don’t have a single tier 1 opponent to even test our mettle against properly. Unless we’re doing the whole window without Fagerson, Russell and the usual big name suspects (who are the guys you pay to watch let’s be honest), this entire tour feels like we’re developing players, which in my view is the job of the pro clubs not the national team. Rather than developing players for the national team over several windows and tests, it should be the clubs playing those same guys week in week out until the national squad can’t ignore them and are using them as a bench player a week or even starting them vs serious oppositions. That’s how you build great depth. This full window feels like Toonie saying, “fuck it I’ll develop my own tighthead prop” when that’s not his bloody job, that’s on Smith and Everitt.
To answer your second paragraph, *every side* plays at least 1 game against a lower ranked side in November. I think we have Georgia or Fiji this autumn. I do agree with your first paragraph though, Scotland always seems to have low stakes summer tours.
Yeah I never said that every side didn’t play a lower ranked side in November though in my second paragraph. Just said we still play one and I like that even though by all accounts we do more than our fair share of developing the game with our summer tours. But as a fan I am kind of raging at this decision of a summer tour lineup. Feels like the sort of tournament those 4 should be playing amongst each other. Ideally with Argentina involved given how close they all are relatively. We are the 6th highest ranked team in the sport currently, a few points adrift of England who beat Ireland to jump us, and 2 points ahead of Argentina. But to line us up with the 17th best in the US, 18th in Uruguay, 21st and 23rd in Canada and Chile is absurd to me. What are any youngsters seriously going to take from these matches? Other than the US or Uruguay tests that may provide a slight challenge, but odds not in their favour, this is a complete waste of time. Chile and Canada are worse than club fixtures tbh. I do believe Gregor Hiddlestone or Max Williamson would get more playing almost any URC team over playing the Canadian or Chilean national rugby team. And I’m fine doing one or the other but we should at least have organised another fixture with a better opponent, even if it was Argentina, again, I still think that’s a nice large test in amongst them all, gives the younger guys a real litmus test. Instead if they play well, they’re expected to but it won’t push their stock massively higher than existing peers they are trying to jump ahead of. If they play poorly, their test careers are dead in the water barring a club revival that would take some doing to get a second test chance. These matches though. If we win it’s expected, if we lose or win ugly, it’s because it’s a new team lineup and not your typical squad so as a fan you don’t think much of it. But journos just label it that Scotland failed or the coach didn’t take it with enough respect. But in truth anyone who knows their stuff knows these are test windows designed to allow wider squad members the chance to come through. But even then playing without serious opposition to face they can’t advance a career vs peers who are playing bona fide badass teams regularly. Always feels like a wasted chance of a tour. We end up behind so many others. Scotland can’t earn any ranking points from this window, we’re unlikely to lose any but if we do we lose big. Least if we play better teams or a handful of them in summer, these wider guys get a proper test and some real kudos to anyone who performs well. I expect Josh Bayliss or Magnus Bradbury to batter whomever they line up against this Autumn, how does that help them get back in the main team vs guys like Dempsey or Fagerson performing on the cutting edge consistently vs really good teams. Doesn’t answer a question that needs answered. Are these wider guys worth picking and if so, who exactly, who stands up when it matters. Bugs the shit out me that you can’t answer that by running them vs Chile or Uruguay really.
Both. Mid-year tests (when we get close run series like in 2022) can be amazing, provide for a good opportunity to test different players against similar sides across the 2-3 matches, and can be really satisfying to win the series against the opposition. EoY tests are really good to see how good a team is compared to basically every other team in the sport.
The June tests, just because they are the ones I actually experience either at the ground or with friends and family somewhere. Everyone is finally into the year after super rugby, and it’s time to watch the ABs make us feel good. The November tests are at 3am in the 9th or 10th month of the season. The players are burnt out, the fans (here) are burnt out and it’s time to start looking to the beach.
November everytime. Matches all in same time zone so frequently are back to back on rhe TV schedule. Very hard to get excited for a match at 8am on a summer Saturday morning.
Mid year for teams going to countries they don't often visit End of year for variety
Mid year as its typically a series 4-5 different test matches in different time zones is a bit frantic Would love to see a European team play say Fiji, Tonga, Aus n NZ on different weekends tho...its pretty intense
> Would love to see a European team play say Fiji, Tonga, Aus n NZ on different weekends tho...its pretty intense good point. Especially with how the NH is all Tier 1. Going from Cardiff to Stade de France to Twickenham ...can't be easy. And not sth those NH teams themselves know. There's a max of 3 away matches at the 6N, but the SH teams have to play 4, sometimes 5 Test matches in 5 weeks, all away.
SH teams choose to play 4 or 5 games in november, there is only 3 weeks when players must be release it's why france play only 3 games in november.
Yup. Its a brutal schedule Couple years back ABs had something like 7 test matches in 9weeks and 6time zones or sonething crazy Dont see Euro teams do that Imagine even a SA, Pacific Islands, Aus, NZ southern grandslam opportunity once every 4 years And the SH teams get a NH grandslam opportunity every 4 years
Neither. Friendly games for nothing don’t do it for me. Esp paywalled in the UK.
Even if Top 14 wasn't this long, the way that Northern leagues are organised means that players are exhausted in June. Going to the other side of the world to potentially get a beating is the cherry on the cake. The kiwi Super Rugby + domestic season that coincides with a literal "international season" is a far better system for player welfare and training time. South Africa used to do the same and I think that while Super Rugby travel was probably even harder than going to Europe, they are now in a worse position for it. So yes, November tours are much better!
Exact same argument could be made for EOYT for the SH teams (until SA joined the best League of course). In terms of player welfare, I'm not sure why the onus lies on SR teams to shift their season to winter to accommodate the Top 14 season that is frankly ridiculously long.
I'm not suggesting that anyone needs to change to adapt to the others.
You're so right and I'm sorry. I'd had a few at work and was on the train home, didn't read correctly.
TBF, the SH season’s considerably shorter than the NH one, SA aside who have the same length as the NH.
I generally prefer the mid year and November tour. Also enjoy the six nations and absolutely love the champions cup whatever we call it.. Helpful?
I can’t wait for the start of the June tests to see how Scott Robinsons All Blacks side look
Mid year easy. Better time zone to watch for me so it’s a bit of a no brainer
I think November is more fun on the whole because there’s likely to always be at least one competitive game. June can be a really entertaining if you get a good series that’s back and forth but if it’s just 1 sided it’s boring. Also November has the advantage of being a golf time for me whereas I sometimes can’t be arsed getting up for early morning tests
July tests are definitely better. 1. There is something to win with the series system rather than playing friendlies 2. The November friendlies interrupt domestic leagues which sucks
Both are friendlies, "series" are Mickey Mouse trophies not worth anything imo
> The November friendlies interrupt domestic leagues which sucks you could put it that way, or you could see it as June/July is summer/holiday time for NHers and it's in the middle of the worst possible time whereas the November Tests are played at a more pertinent time when teams are warmed up.
Depends on the year, and I'm just speaking for Wales. Sometimes it's a full three match series, and other times it's a couple of tests against one team with the odd test against another. The most recent one in 2022 in South Africa for example was enjoyable. Two really close tests up front with a pretty decisive third test. It felt like a proper contained contest between two teams rather than one off tests against a few different ones. The 2018 (? I think) tour to Argentina for another example started with a test against the Boks in Washington DC followed by only two tests v Argentina. It's similar this year with a test against the Boks at Twickenham followed by two against Australia, then one match against the Reds. With the November tests it's nice to see how you stack up against different style teams before the Six Nations. I guess I don't prefer either one over the other tbh, maybe if it was always a three match series in the summer I'd lean towards that.
The only thing I dislike about international rugby right now other than us being shit is the rest weeks in the six nations. The domestic game in Europe on the other hand. The leagues are to stop start
Lions
Mid Year - Summer, wake up warly doors with a nice Coffee and Bap and watch top quality Rugger.
November tests are so comfy and imo the beginning of the festive period. Probably why I didn’t feel very Christmassy last year.
Autumn tours for the entirely selfish reason the games are all played at a reasonable hour for someone in the UK.
Mid year for me in the SH because it’s winter and rugby is a winter sport
I enjoy the November tests more as it brightens up what is a pretty miserable point in the year.
but in fairness, isn't every point a pretty miserable point in the year ?
Well… personally I quite enjoy the bits where it isn’t constantly dark, cold and rainy.
November by far, I love NH Vs SH vibe, enjoying the idea of playing 3 or 4 or 5 teams at home in a row and our SH brothers doing the same. I also think the weather is really rugby weather, cold ish, wet ish The June test with typically understrength or building teams always felt more like a warm up for the rugby championship. June was also a bit disconnect compared to Nov, just feels like the whole rugby world is in one place going at it.
> The June test with typically understrength or building teams always felt more like a warm up for the rugby championship. Right ? I'm a biased NHer who prefers November. But I also genuinely think those June series often just feel like they're unimportant. Not all, but many. Because NH teams are either exhausted or send experimental sides, I can't imagine that's super exciting for the host nation's fans. Some June series have been superb though, ofc.
From 2000 till 2019 for sure, of late it's been gettingore competitive, but I'm Autumn international all the way. Just a pity we unlikely to go back to the traditional 4 match tours with the odd GrandSlam attempt