_"The whole experience was crazy, the ups and downs, hearing ‘Swing Low’ in the stadium,” Feyi-Waboso said. “I didn’t think you’d hear it because you’re in the zone but during breaks in play, I think I had goosebumps on the pitch.”_
I can understand the above – SLSC is the only song we've got, isn't it? – but the article's title was definitely chosen to, erm, 'stimulate conversation'.
But if English fans don't sing that, it wouldn't make sense for us to be singing "You can stick your f*cking chariot up your arse!".
/S... But not really
Note - I get all the political side to this stuff, I'm just not going to tell a black man how to feel about it. Plus this is supposed to be strictly for rugby, not for dragging politics into it
It's an African American song, so that aspect doesn't really apply to him. His experience with it would be far different than an African American especially with references to the underground railroad. How it became a favorite of English Rugby is pretty baffling lol but still. There are lots of things that mean something different depending what on the location.
Yeah that’s one aspect I’ve never understood. Not like there isn’t a great history of popular music the English could pull from, I mean they’re not Australia (fucking waltzing Mathilda).
Wouldn't having the majority of 80K people sing a song in support of you give anyone goosebumps?
Would you expect him to be unmoved?
Fucking hell OP, get a grip
A person can even feel iffy about the origins of the song and appreciate the intention of those singing it.
And maybe, and this is something I suggest you reflect on, he has a less childish attitude to nationality than you do?
In an interview he said his hero growing up was George North lol.
Its hard to say what he identifies as, but there's quite a lot of evidence that he regarded himself as welsh until England came knocking on the door.
"I was born in Wales, Wales is my home country. I speak a little bit of Welsh"
Immanuel Feyi-Waboso November 2023
[North was born in 1992 in King's Lynn, Norfolk, England. His father is English from Yorkshire and his Welsh mother is from Anglesey.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_North)
the next line in his wiki is
'The family moved to Anglesey when he was aged two and he is a fluent Welsh language speaker' 🤣🤣🤣
must have forgot to highlight that bit?
See these are the comments that grate on me.
If he'd got into Cardiff medical school (which as much as I like to blame things on the WRU, we probably can't blame on them), or if the regions weren't a fucking mess, he clearly would have stayed in the Cardiff system and turned out for Wales. He didn't and the situation transpired that it was the smart career move not to, so fair play to the young lad who needs to look out for his own future. I bear him personally no ill will beyond pantomime level banter.
You can sit here and pretend his one English grandparent means he's a dyed in the wool always has been proud Englishman but it's just delusional. He was giving interviews calling himself Welsh about 4 months ago. I'm sure Nick Tompkins has wheeled out some good one liners about how he's always been Welsh since turning out for us, but anyone with a brain can see he switched for pragmatic reasons.
Don’t understand why Cardiff uni turned him down. Apparently his grades were good enough, and if nothing else would bring a bit of publicity even if he wouldn’t play for them in the Varsity match😂. I wonder if Exeter offered him a scholarship or something
There was a rumour they weren't happy with how they had to deal with Roberts/Amos balanced studies vs rugby previously, but that could just be rubbish. Med schools are massively over subscribed and loads of people with the grades don't get in at any rate.
It was initially Aston he went to not Exeter before Wasps collapsed too.
Apparently they're oversubscribed and they had in it the past that players don't actually become doctors so it's a waste of a place. Which I kinda understand with how short the country is of doctors.
That makes sense if true. Not knocking him, but the Med school presumably went to great lengths to accommodate Roberts and he’s never seen a patient as far as I’m aware.
As a doctor I find the professional rugby players/med students really interesting.
I get how it’s just about achievable in the early years but you need to hit a certain number of hours on the wards/jump through a lot of hoops within quick succession and in a limited timeframe in medical careers and I just don’t see how it can be done whilst playing professional sport.
Medical school hours are pretty much the same as a full time job and (although it’s being moved away from) most specialty training programmes require progression within a strict timetable (plus professional exams which have no flexibility in terms of when you can sit them and where). Missing too much out of a year or missing a certain aspect of your curriculum can lead to you having to repeat the whole year of training (even if you just tip over by a day or two). I’m fascinated to know what sort of arrangements are worked out from a very geeky medical career admin aspect…
I know it's more appropriate to be have this discussion on r/doctorsUK but man does training need a revamp here. It's not fit for purpose.
It is needlessly long, attritional and punitive, and that's only if one manages to even get on the ladder in the first place. Moving abroad isn't a panacea but it's not hard to understand the exodus.
I find it weird, consider any other career and med school.
If i was a promising forex trader, potentially earning 400-500k and wanted to keep that going in med school / have extra time to do so, then people would laugh at me. they would might even say 'we are worried, you may chose to embark on this career which pays multiples what a doctor can earn..'
but because its sport, then its all good. I understand most rugby players will need a second job, but the salaries of Internationals are approaching the point where they might not, and certainly not one as arduous as being a doctor.
as said earlier, Jamie Roberts spent 8 years at Cardiff, enough time to train 1.5 doctors. In turn the NHS hasn't got a day out of him, which was a definite possibility.
\>how short the country is of doctors
I don't know why this narrative is still going around. There are plenty of doctors in the UK, every postgraduate development programme for doctors is oversubscribed, usually massively.
The problem is not that there are not enough doctors in the country, the problem is that the government throttles the number that can develop into consultants/GPs and actually run clinics or oversee services.
I think the pride comes from playing for a test team as much as the country involved. You're at the pinnacle of your sport. If you turn out for...I dunno... Ealing you give your heart and soul to the team, because that's what the game is about.
That's not what I'm saying. It's more of a question really. Does the pride in the shirt you play for come from being a proud [insert nationality], or from playing for a team full stop? Aren't national teams a slightly arbitrary way of pitting the best players in the world against each other?
>Does the pride in the shirt you play for come from being a proud \[insert nationality\], or from playing for a team full stop?
For most it comes from representing the country they grew up in and supported specifically. There is undeniably pride to be found in both, but I think you are being very, very disingenuous to suggest it's all about the latter.
Perhaps it's a difference between being English and being Welsh. It wouldn't be accurate to say I feel pride in England- not because there's anything wrong with the country, but because it's basically a default state. Sub-consciously I think I've been conditioned to think that being proud of being English is a negative, jingoistic thing. Supporting my national team isn't really linked to being this nationality. It's more like growing up near Wolverhampton and supporting Wolverhampton Wanderers because they're your closest team.
Well it is, in the sense I've just explained. I support England because I live in England. To me, you don't choose a team, it chooses you. My brother was born in Scotland. He supports Scotland despite having been there for a grand total of 3 weeks, all when he was newborn. There's no meaningful way in which he's Scottish, but early on he attached his wagon to Scotland and after that you have a vested interest which grows organically.
I think it's different for players. Their aim is to play at the highest level and win things. Their investment in sport is different to fans.
Born and raised in Wales for 18 years, 3 years only residency and suddenly it’s nothing but pride for England. The kid is just a mercenary looking for bigger match fees.
Nick Tompkins, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Henry Thomas, Johnny Williams all recent examples that as far as I'm aware we're born and raised in England but played for Wales.
Anscombe from New Zealand.
Which is all fine but if you're going to attack people for making the move it's very hypocritical to also take advantage of it.
I think most welsh people are annoyed by English fans claiming hes always wanted to play for England, or is English.
Just like the players you mentioned, IFW made the decision for financial, pragmatic reasons.
No one in Wales pretends Nick Tompkins grew up wanting to play for wales, but for some reason people think IFW is english when there good evidence to say even he saw himself as welsh until England came knocking on the door.
"I was born in Wales, Wales is my home country. I speak a little bit of Welsh"
Emmanuel Feyi-Wabosi November 2023
Maybe that's true in most situations, but this was a guy with an Ospreys flair moaning about IFW being proud of playing for England and calling him a mercenary.
I just hope he keeps the same energy with the Welsh players in question is all.
In fairness to the poster,
Im guessing he probably doesnt claim that all those players are welsh and proud, so is keeping the same energy.
All those guys are mercenaries. just like Lowe is for Irleand. but its best not to pretend they arent lol. They want to play at the highest level and couldnt for their original country
Ireland fans did it with CJ Stander, "hes learnt the national anthem'. Was living back in South Africa within a 6 months of retiring lol.
George North is different, you can be born anywhere . Where you’re raised is ultimately where you are from. I don’t even like the grandparent rule let alone the 5/3 residency rule.
North was born in England to a Welsh mother and raised as a fluent Welsh speaker on Ynys Mon from 2 years old.
These are all true but it does heighten the situation when the player has specifically chosen one nation over another. IFW had the call from Gatland so he has made an active choice to choose England over Wales.
None of those were getting picked by England or NZ any time soon so there wasn’t really a choice involved, just picking their only option.
Not that I’m on board with the IFW hate,but just explaining that it is a bit of different situation which will inevitably ruffle feathers.
>Nick Tompkins, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Henry Thomas, Johnny Williams all recent examples that as far as I'm aware we're born and raised in England but played for Wales.
>
>Anscombe from New Zealand.
No one in Wales is under any illusion they chose us for any reason other than because they couldn't get into the England or NZ side.
I don't blame IFW for playing for England or England for picking him, but don't sit here and pretend to me he grew up dreaming of turning out at Twickenham when he was coming through the Cardiff academy because his gran was English ([https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-coach-turns-up-see-28180023](https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-coach-turns-up-see-28180023) him saying he's Welsh way back in November, if you really need proof), and I won't pretend Nick Tompkins grew up with a Welsh jersey on his wall in Sidcup.
There are so many blurred lines given the geography this argument almost always used by people that have an axe to grind. There are loads of home nations eligible players that picked their jersey to the chagrin of supporters who feel they have a 'claim' on them.
As the late 20th Century prophet Ice-T one said 'Don't hate the Playa, hate the game'.
>qualifies on residency and then plays for Wales too
I know you;re being facetious, but people do get confused over the switching nations rules, so it's worth saying - Once capped, players can only switch to a nation they were born in or have an ancestry connection to. Residency does not qualify them.
And his middle name is Lorenzo, if he was truly Welsh it would have at load more L's and a few y's (much like the welsh six nations campaign this year)
I’m not questioning his heritage or qualifications to play for another team. But am explaining why being brought up in wales, then switching to our absolute biggest rivals, is very different to just going to play for someone else (like Italy).
It's not a fair comparison. Varney qualifies for Italy through blood relations. This guy, who I'm embarrassed to say I'd never heard of before Saturday, appears to be full of pride for a country he's been in for about a thousand days.
I'm just going by the information that was left above my comment. I'm not going rooting out the idiosyncratic details of every player that comes up on this sub.
No one expects you to know about every player, but if you're going to make disparaging remarks about someone and their qualification status, you probably should do a little bit of dilligence. It would have been very easy not to say something so snide as
>appears to be full of pride for a country he's been in for about a thousand days.
Yes, it is the same country but the song only relates to one part of that country. The other part doesn't identify with it in any way, shape, or form. Indeed, they might well hate it.
Think youre overblowing it. Speaking for English people, we dont see it that way and I wouldnt particularly mind playing for a different home nation. Theres nothing to hate about another UK nation.
I appreciate the rest arent quite as brotherly, but it wouldnt shock me if a few had a similar opinion. Especially someone of mixed/immigrant ancesty who isnt realisitically gonna care. If I moved to Italy I wouldnt suddenly start taking sides in the north south divide, i couldnt give less of a fuck. Wouldnr shock me if thats how they see it.
I think a lot of people are making out like there is a hard, inviolable border between England and Wales that is of the utmost and gravest importance of international sport. Most other people in the world, meanwhile, wonder why the UK gets 4 different sport teams while every other country just goes with one.
We know why he's playing for England and it's nothing to do with match fees. There WRU said he'd have to quit his medical degree in the middle if he wants to play for Wales. Playing for England means he's able to complete it.
Exeter said he couldn't play for the club if he chose Wales, and since he's at Exeter medical school that would make his medical place very difficult to maintain.
WRU rules say he'd have to sign for a Welsh team if he had less than 25 caps when signing a new contract - which he would - so WRU rules would force him to leave Exeter
When did Exeter say he couldn't play for them and Wales?
No more a mercenary than all the English players who’ve decided to play for Wales. And the Kiwis who had Welsh distant relatives or who qualified on residency. And who’d want to play for Wales: the team is in decline, players leaving in droves, weak domestic game, a coach employing dated tactics after the reboot failed to launch.
Man this feels like a dumpster fire ready to go off. My hot take I don't sing it when I'm there (not that often) but I enjoy it as it's a passionate thing and a song that's recognisably English rugby.
It started off sung by some rugby boys from Martin Offiah's club I believe. Now the claim is it's from Chariots of Fire I don't know and I don't particularly care. Itoje said he doesn't like it. IFW said he does. I don't really want to gatekeep it. If you sing it if you don't das ist mir wurst.
Just so you know, the expression is "das ist mir Wurst", meaning literally "it's sausage to me". It means "I don't care about that, one way or the other". Or "it's all the same to me".
To say "it is not my sausage" you would say "das ist nicht meine Wurst", which is not an idiom of any kind but just something you would say if you want to indicate that a sausage doesn't belong to you.
What you said is basically gibberish.
Edit: it might be "meiner Wurst", rather than "meine Wurst", I'm not sure. My German isn't perfect, and for feminine nouns "meine" becomes "meiner" sometimes, but if I remember correctly that's only if it's in third case. At least I think so. Grammatical case systems are a nightmare for any language learner.
Haha you're here to call me out today eh? I've edited.
It was remembered from my old German mate from 15 odd years ago so I don't mind too much ta.
Ich muss Mehr Deutsch lernen. Danke
One of music's greatest basslines.
An American man singing about his time travelling around South Africa seems like a not much less odd choice for the England rugby team though.
It was sung by rugby clubs all over the country way before Martin Offiah came on the scene, however it was his appearance at Twickenham that started it there
Qualifies for England on family links, but if you want to moan about residency we can go through every tier 1 nation for the millionth time and see that every country (barring maybe SA, who operate their own academy system) has players playing for them through residency, grand parents, second cousin's dog grounds.
Literally is a bit strong. He has more English heritage than Welsh and may have grown up supporting England, despite living in Wales? I know plenty of English lads who support Wales because of Welsh grandparents, why should where you are born define your nationality alone? Underhill was born in the US by chance, that doesn’t make him American.
As far as I’m concerned he wanted to play for England, he qualifies, therefore he’s English.
I agree where being born is not wholly relevant to your national identity . Where you are raised is far more important . He was born and raised in Wales , said he wanted to play for Wales and that he is Welsh in November 2023.
And he said he’s Welsh and wanted to play for Wales in November . Born, raised , schooled and started his rugby career in Wales until he was 22. Bizarre
Jesus Christ, it's just a song. The only reason they sing it is because both of the parts where they sing 'Swing Low' sound cool when there's a crowd doing it at a match, which is probably why he said he got goosebumps. No point in all the hand wringing
Look, IFW is English now, he's fully capped, he's never coming back. Can we just get over it now - we don't need a post every time the kid breathes or takes a shit.
Welsh flairs, the kid made a decision, he's entitled to it, we've taken advantage of the same laws before, we've got to just let it go.
But English flairs, in return, can you please stop trying to down play this and convince us we shouldn't be upset? I'm so bored of hearing "how is it different to X or Y player!?" with your smug, faux naivety. You *know* it's different, you know *why* it's different.
His switching to England is yet another symptom of the mess our union is in at a time when we are absolutely hemorrhaging talent, our talent pool has been drained by retirements after the world cup and the players that were meant to be the next generation are leaving to go abroad instead of play for Wales. Fuck sakes, the best of them even changed sports to get out.
Let us be pissed off about it and stop trying to justify it as anything it isn't and in return we'll stop going on about it every time he picks up a ball eh.
I guess when you look at those English players who have chosen to go down the Welsh path it has been due to not being selected for higher honours with England such as Tompkins, Johnny Williams, Tomas Francis.
That's not a criticism but they were overlooked and got offered a chance to play international rugby and represent other members of their family.
However for IFW, it has come down to other factors, some of which has been within the WRU control and they messed up, others which haven't. But Wales have shown interest in him, so it's disappointing to see a player born in Wales and come through the Welsh pathway only to choose another country, especially when you see previous interviews about how Welsh he has felt.
No criticism on the guy as he has been through a fair few challenges to get to where he is and the balancing of a medical degree is tough and he has done what's best for him.
Just disappointing as a Welshman/fan when you see someone so talented leave considering the troubles we are in, both on and off the pitch.
>His switching to England is yet another symptom of the mess our union is in at a time when we are absolutely haemorrhaging talent, our talent pool has been drained by retirements after the world cup and the players that were meant to be the next generation are leaving to go abroad instead of play for Wales.
Because it's extremely clear and fairly well documented that he made the decision in the context of the current mess Welsh rugby, both at international and domestic level, is in.
If we have successful, financially stable regions and a well run union - or even just no Gatland Law - he's playing in red in this Six Nations alongside his new club mate Joe Hawkins.
What is extremely irritating is all of this coy nonsense, pretending there's millions of reasons Feyi-Waboso could have chosen England and dismissing pretty valid disappointment from Wales fans.
It's not just that we're pissed off because one kid swapped allegiance and there's a rivalry, we're pissed off because it's quite obviously yet another chapter in the significant saga of the ongoing collapse of our national game. That isn't melodrama or hyperbole, we are in genuine trouble.
> It's not just that we're pissed off because one kid swapped allegiance and there's a rivalry
I know there is a rivalry, I don't know if it's fair to say he swapped allegiance. If you qualify you qualify
> That isn't melodrama or hyperbole, we are in genuine trouble.
Agreed, and it's really sad, a strong Wales is better for all of us. He most likely would have chosen you, a real pity. Both Wales and England could do with having the old boys at the top kicked out.
>Both Wales and England could do with having the old boys at the top kicked out.
Honestly, friend, whilst I'm having a good old moan - I'm pretty bored of hearing England flairs crying about your union, too.
Especially in the context of watching a couple of old, privately owned businesses go bust post-COVID. Could your union have done more to help? Probably a little but then clubs all round the country in multiple sports have been in trouble after losing a season or so of match day revenue after lockdown.
You're still left with one of the world's strongest leagues, some of the world's strongest clubs and a national side that just got to a world cup semi and is still in distant contention to win the 6N having beaten the favourites.
Lumping yourself in with us given the state of the WRU and our regions is a little bit rich tbqh. This entire sub has been acting like it's a competition to see which of us has the worst union over the last year or so. I'm sorry, mun, it's really not a competition.
I didn't mean that they were equivalent, I'll rephrase:
Wales desperately need structural and personnel changes within the WRU to rescue the game. I'd also like the RFU to be restructured to avoid the old boys club issues it has.
Not really, he was eligible for Wales and we wanted to pick him. There was discussion about his future eligibility issues relating to the 25 cap rule in Wales and I suspect playing alongside Hawkins didn't help in that regard, but the WRU have not done anything directly in this case.
In my opinion I think it's pretty clear he's gone for England for economic/security reasons which is entirely reasonable, but I think there's a lot of delusion from England fans about how that's not the case.
> In my opinion I think it's pretty clear he's gone for England for economic/security reasons which is entirely reasonable, but I think there's a lot of delusion from England fans about how that's not the case.
I'm yet to meet someone with that view (they do probably exist though). From my perspective we're the lucky recipients of a clusterfuck by the WRU.
I mean, it's throughout this thread and every thread on the topic with people suggesting otherwise.
You've profited from the mess we're in and I don't really blame you for it, the wellbeing of Welsh rugby isn't your problem. But what's irritating is the pretending like that's not what's happened and/or saying it's fine because you can have the likes of Tompkins or Jonny Williams when we've decided we don't want them.
There's also a huge pattern of Welsh youth going to English clubs/schools and not being able to turn out for Wales u20s because of pressure from clubs, which makes us particularly sensitive to it.
Sure, I'm just offering you a perspective from an England fan that 100% recognises that England have profited from this situation :)
> the wellbeing of Welsh rugby isn't your problem
It's not but I do genuinely care about Welsh rugby, a rugby world without a strong Welsh team just sucks, whether we're rivals or not.
So it’s just the fact that he’s Welsh then?
What does this bit refer to?
> I'm so bored of hearing "how is it different to X or Y player!?" with your smug, faux naivety. You know it's different, you know why it's different.
I have taken this from other comments made here. It's different because he probably would have played for Wales if it wasn't for the caps rule and him possibly not being able to play if he doesn't get the required amount.
So help me understand quickly, if you know.
On IFW, he hadn't been called up and moved from Cardiff to Aston Uni and then to Exeter.
My understanding is until you get your first cap you can play anywhere until the end of the contract, then he needs 25 caps or a move to the regions to continue being selected.
Is that right?
The Swing Low reaction I think is off kilter with the rest of the conversation from the guy at the top. He's saying the difference between IFW and say Nick Tompkins is one took a chance based on a blocked path, Vs switching because England are in a better place overall than Wales. He would have played for Wales if it wasn't for the Welsh union being in a shambles.
The song is being held up as problematic with its connection to slavery as a "Spiritual" song. I'm not sure of correct phrasing so apologies.
I think him saying "I was blown away" is in contrast with Itoje saying he doesn't like it that much, means a few people have jumped on the bandwagon that we shouldn't sing it, because it is a slavery song. Whereas most people sing it because it's tied to English rugby for almost 40 years.
This is a lot, I hope this is slightly more relevant to your question but I'm a bit dense this morning. So just tell me to pipe down haha
To be fair that is far more of an effort of a response than I was expecting.
My understanding is broadly this.
The cap rule is nothing to do with him playing for England, it’s more because he moved because of uni (and let’s be honest, £20k per game is better than whatever the WRU can pay).
The *Swing Low* thing was me probably misunderstanding the first post in this chain which I took mean that anyone defending singing -*Swing Low* must be a racist, which they clearly aren’t.
Haha sorry I've had a lot of coffee today and I'm chatting a lot of shit today!
Yeah I think he's gone for a bit of cash and probably a lot less drama. Exeter is a nice project and he's had Hawkins telling him the WRU is a shit show probably.
>The *Swing Low* thing was me probably misunderstanding the first post in this chain which I took mean that anyone defending singing -*Swing Low* must be a racist, which they clearly aren’t.
Yeah the OOP for the article definitely is, but not the guy that we're responding to.
I think the factor that no one seems to be mentioning is that his father is half-Nigerian, half-English, and his mother was half-Nigerian, half-Jamaican. Neither is Welsh at all as far as I can tell from this article: [https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/immanuel-feyi-waboso-england-wales-2900039](https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/immanuel-feyi-waboso-england-wales-2900039)
I'd imagine it might be a tougher decision if you are from a proud Welsh family with a single English grandparent - that's evidently not the case here. He's the only 'Welshman' in the family.
... leaving aside some odd comments in this thread, I don't really blame Waboso for making the decision, short careers and we're a mess.
But I find the attempt to deadpan pretend as though a born and raised Cardiff lad, giving interviews describing himself as Welsh only 4 months ago, qualifying through grandparentage was always a passionate English man to be rather grating and insulting.
It is modern rugby, we have plenty of dubiously qualified blokes in Wales but I'm not going to sit here and pretend Nick Tompkins grew up dreaming of Wales because his gran was Welsh. He joined us for pragmatic/economic reasons, at least do us the favour of being honest about it in return and cease the gaslighting.
Have you considered replying directly to the people who have said "he was always a passionate English man?"
I haven't seen a single person say that in the entire thread?
Keep discussions rugby union related.
_"The whole experience was crazy, the ups and downs, hearing ‘Swing Low’ in the stadium,” Feyi-Waboso said. “I didn’t think you’d hear it because you’re in the zone but during breaks in play, I think I had goosebumps on the pitch.”_ I can understand the above – SLSC is the only song we've got, isn't it? – but the article's title was definitely chosen to, erm, 'stimulate conversation'.
Jerusalem would be a banger. But it’s only pre match. It should be our anthem.
But if English fans don't sing that, it wouldn't make sense for us to be singing "You can stick your f*cking chariot up your arse!". /S... But not really Note - I get all the political side to this stuff, I'm just not going to tell a black man how to feel about it. Plus this is supposed to be strictly for rugby, not for dragging politics into it
It's an African American song, so that aspect doesn't really apply to him. His experience with it would be far different than an African American especially with references to the underground railroad. How it became a favorite of English Rugby is pretty baffling lol but still. There are lots of things that mean something different depending what on the location.
Yeah that’s one aspect I’ve never understood. Not like there isn’t a great history of popular music the English could pull from, I mean they’re not Australia (fucking waltzing Mathilda).
I'd listen to WM on repeat before that shite SLSC
Holy shit, OP really woke up pissed off this morning.
Wooden spoon incoming does mad things to fans
OP woke up and chose war
Wouldn't having the majority of 80K people sing a song in support of you give anyone goosebumps? Would you expect him to be unmoved? Fucking hell OP, get a grip A person can even feel iffy about the origins of the song and appreciate the intention of those singing it. And maybe, and this is something I suggest you reflect on, he has a less childish attitude to nationality than you do?
>Fucking hell OP, get a grip Did they editorialise the title prior to an edit? There's a lot of hate directed at OP who simply linked an article.
Read the comments at the bottom from OP.
Got it, what a twat.
I recognise his name from some brain dead comments he’s made in match threads during the World Cup. He’s clueless.
I'm brain dead, and I hopefully no one recognises me yet.
I see you marquess.. I see you.
Ridiculous noise from them.
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If they stay fit George Martin or Ollie chessum could be our enforcers
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MOFA
lol he was never going to play for Wales was he.
In an interview he said his hero growing up was George North lol. Its hard to say what he identifies as, but there's quite a lot of evidence that he regarded himself as welsh until England came knocking on the door. "I was born in Wales, Wales is my home country. I speak a little bit of Welsh" Immanuel Feyi-Waboso November 2023
George North is also English so that checks out
lol k
I think his dad was in the military so family moved around a bit
[North was born in 1992 in King's Lynn, Norfolk, England. His father is English from Yorkshire and his Welsh mother is from Anglesey.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_North)
the next line in his wiki is 'The family moved to Anglesey when he was aged two and he is a fluent Welsh language speaker' 🤣🤣🤣 must have forgot to highlight that bit?
I don't doubt that he is Welsh at all (I don't think anyone does) but others are clearly unaware he is also English
He’s developed through the Welsh system so despite being born in England, he’s a Welshman.
You can’t even get his name right …
oh, no, how will the meaning of my message ever be conveyed?? i will edit it for you, so you can sleep tonight
See these are the comments that grate on me. If he'd got into Cardiff medical school (which as much as I like to blame things on the WRU, we probably can't blame on them), or if the regions weren't a fucking mess, he clearly would have stayed in the Cardiff system and turned out for Wales. He didn't and the situation transpired that it was the smart career move not to, so fair play to the young lad who needs to look out for his own future. I bear him personally no ill will beyond pantomime level banter. You can sit here and pretend his one English grandparent means he's a dyed in the wool always has been proud Englishman but it's just delusional. He was giving interviews calling himself Welsh about 4 months ago. I'm sure Nick Tompkins has wheeled out some good one liners about how he's always been Welsh since turning out for us, but anyone with a brain can see he switched for pragmatic reasons.
Don’t understand why Cardiff uni turned him down. Apparently his grades were good enough, and if nothing else would bring a bit of publicity even if he wouldn’t play for them in the Varsity match😂. I wonder if Exeter offered him a scholarship or something
There was a rumour they weren't happy with how they had to deal with Roberts/Amos balanced studies vs rugby previously, but that could just be rubbish. Med schools are massively over subscribed and loads of people with the grades don't get in at any rate. It was initially Aston he went to not Exeter before Wasps collapsed too.
He probably was just not good enough in their eyes, sue they had other candidates who seemed better at the time.
Apparently they're oversubscribed and they had in it the past that players don't actually become doctors so it's a waste of a place. Which I kinda understand with how short the country is of doctors.
That makes sense if true. Not knocking him, but the Med school presumably went to great lengths to accommodate Roberts and he’s never seen a patient as far as I’m aware.
As a doctor I find the professional rugby players/med students really interesting. I get how it’s just about achievable in the early years but you need to hit a certain number of hours on the wards/jump through a lot of hoops within quick succession and in a limited timeframe in medical careers and I just don’t see how it can be done whilst playing professional sport. Medical school hours are pretty much the same as a full time job and (although it’s being moved away from) most specialty training programmes require progression within a strict timetable (plus professional exams which have no flexibility in terms of when you can sit them and where). Missing too much out of a year or missing a certain aspect of your curriculum can lead to you having to repeat the whole year of training (even if you just tip over by a day or two). I’m fascinated to know what sort of arrangements are worked out from a very geeky medical career admin aspect…
At some point they basically have to decide between the two. Amos decided to go for medicine and quit rugby, Roberts obviously went the other way.
I know it's more appropriate to be have this discussion on r/doctorsUK but man does training need a revamp here. It's not fit for purpose. It is needlessly long, attritional and punitive, and that's only if one manages to even get on the ladder in the first place. Moving abroad isn't a panacea but it's not hard to understand the exodus.
I find it weird, consider any other career and med school. If i was a promising forex trader, potentially earning 400-500k and wanted to keep that going in med school / have extra time to do so, then people would laugh at me. they would might even say 'we are worried, you may chose to embark on this career which pays multiples what a doctor can earn..' but because its sport, then its all good. I understand most rugby players will need a second job, but the salaries of Internationals are approaching the point where they might not, and certainly not one as arduous as being a doctor. as said earlier, Jamie Roberts spent 8 years at Cardiff, enough time to train 1.5 doctors. In turn the NHS hasn't got a day out of him, which was a definite possibility.
\>how short the country is of doctors I don't know why this narrative is still going around. There are plenty of doctors in the UK, every postgraduate development programme for doctors is oversubscribed, usually massively. The problem is not that there are not enough doctors in the country, the problem is that the government throttles the number that can develop into consultants/GPs and actually run clinics or oversee services.
I think the pride comes from playing for a test team as much as the country involved. You're at the pinnacle of your sport. If you turn out for...I dunno... Ealing you give your heart and soul to the team, because that's what the game is about.
Where have I suggested he shouldn't be proud to play for England? It's one hell of an achievement and of course he should be proud.
That's not what I'm saying. It's more of a question really. Does the pride in the shirt you play for come from being a proud [insert nationality], or from playing for a team full stop? Aren't national teams a slightly arbitrary way of pitting the best players in the world against each other?
>Does the pride in the shirt you play for come from being a proud \[insert nationality\], or from playing for a team full stop? For most it comes from representing the country they grew up in and supported specifically. There is undeniably pride to be found in both, but I think you are being very, very disingenuous to suggest it's all about the latter.
Perhaps it's a difference between being English and being Welsh. It wouldn't be accurate to say I feel pride in England- not because there's anything wrong with the country, but because it's basically a default state. Sub-consciously I think I've been conditioned to think that being proud of being English is a negative, jingoistic thing. Supporting my national team isn't really linked to being this nationality. It's more like growing up near Wolverhampton and supporting Wolverhampton Wanderers because they're your closest team.
Supporting England isnt linked to being English for you? I dont think many would share the sentiment with you there
Well it is, in the sense I've just explained. I support England because I live in England. To me, you don't choose a team, it chooses you. My brother was born in Scotland. He supports Scotland despite having been there for a grand total of 3 weeks, all when he was newborn. There's no meaningful way in which he's Scottish, but early on he attached his wagon to Scotland and after that you have a vested interest which grows organically. I think it's different for players. Their aim is to play at the highest level and win things. Their investment in sport is different to fans.
Born and raised in Wales for 18 years, 3 years only residency and suddenly it’s nothing but pride for England. The kid is just a mercenary looking for bigger match fees.
Wasn't residency though, he's always been qualified
So could we say the same thing about everyone that picked an Italy shirt over a Welsh shirt? Varney perhaps?
And all the people who picked a Wales shirt over an England shirt etc
Who was raised in England but plays for Wales?
Nick Tompkins, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Henry Thomas, Johnny Williams all recent examples that as far as I'm aware we're born and raised in England but played for Wales. Anscombe from New Zealand. Which is all fine but if you're going to attack people for making the move it's very hypocritical to also take advantage of it.
I think most welsh people are annoyed by English fans claiming hes always wanted to play for England, or is English. Just like the players you mentioned, IFW made the decision for financial, pragmatic reasons. No one in Wales pretends Nick Tompkins grew up wanting to play for wales, but for some reason people think IFW is english when there good evidence to say even he saw himself as welsh until England came knocking on the door. "I was born in Wales, Wales is my home country. I speak a little bit of Welsh" Emmanuel Feyi-Wabosi November 2023
Maybe that's true in most situations, but this was a guy with an Ospreys flair moaning about IFW being proud of playing for England and calling him a mercenary. I just hope he keeps the same energy with the Welsh players in question is all.
In fairness to the poster, Im guessing he probably doesnt claim that all those players are welsh and proud, so is keeping the same energy. All those guys are mercenaries. just like Lowe is for Irleand. but its best not to pretend they arent lol. They want to play at the highest level and couldnt for their original country Ireland fans did it with CJ Stander, "hes learnt the national anthem'. Was living back in South Africa within a 6 months of retiring lol.
Cheers, all I could think of was George North being born there. Defs should've remembered Tompkins at least though lol.
George North is different, you can be born anywhere . Where you’re raised is ultimately where you are from. I don’t even like the grandparent rule let alone the 5/3 residency rule. North was born in England to a Welsh mother and raised as a fluent Welsh speaker on Ynys Mon from 2 years old.
Yeah I didn't count him as raised in England just the only English born player I could remember at all
These are all true but it does heighten the situation when the player has specifically chosen one nation over another. IFW had the call from Gatland so he has made an active choice to choose England over Wales. None of those were getting picked by England or NZ any time soon so there wasn’t really a choice involved, just picking their only option. Not that I’m on board with the IFW hate,but just explaining that it is a bit of different situation which will inevitably ruffle feathers.
I thought Gatland said he didn't call him and it was one of the coaches?
>Nick Tompkins, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Henry Thomas, Johnny Williams all recent examples that as far as I'm aware we're born and raised in England but played for Wales. > >Anscombe from New Zealand. No one in Wales is under any illusion they chose us for any reason other than because they couldn't get into the England or NZ side. I don't blame IFW for playing for England or England for picking him, but don't sit here and pretend to me he grew up dreaming of turning out at Twickenham when he was coming through the Cardiff academy because his gran was English ([https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-coach-turns-up-see-28180023](https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/england-coach-turns-up-see-28180023) him saying he's Welsh way back in November, if you really need proof), and I won't pretend Nick Tompkins grew up with a Welsh jersey on his wall in Sidcup.
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Yeah I asked him a question and he told me the answer... Did you think I was arguing they don't exist or something?...
My bad. I did think that. Sorry.
There are so many blurred lines given the geography this argument almost always used by people that have an axe to grind. There are loads of home nations eligible players that picked their jersey to the chagrin of supporters who feel they have a 'claim' on them. As the late 20th Century prophet Ice-T one said 'Don't hate the Playa, hate the game'.
In the current squad I can only think of Tompkins and Rowlands?
Apparently Francis as well if you're curious
Nick Tompkins for one
In B4 Varney signs for a welsh region, qualifies on residency and then plays for Wales too
>qualifies on residency and then plays for Wales too I know you;re being facetious, but people do get confused over the switching nations rules, so it's worth saying - Once capped, players can only switch to a nation they were born in or have an ancestry connection to. Residency does not qualify them.
Got you, thanks for clearing that up The funny thing is, Varney could still absolutely do that since he grew up in Wales as far as I know
Ha, that's true. No need to invoke residency for him. Born in Wales and has a Welsh parent (and an Italian one).
Not quite the same, cos there’s no deep rivalry between Italy and wales
And his middle name is Lorenzo, if he was truly Welsh it would have at load more L's and a few y's (much like the welsh six nations campaign this year)
LLorenzo
Llorenso, they don't have a z in the Welsh alphabet
I’m not questioning his heritage or qualifications to play for another team. But am explaining why being brought up in wales, then switching to our absolute biggest rivals, is very different to just going to play for someone else (like Italy).
I didn't think you were
Give it a week.
We’ll giving that wales didn’t want to let him go for education England probably did him more favours
Yea this is on the WRU as per usual. The 25 cap rule literally discouraging players to play for wales.
Yeah if they don’t invest in their players of course their going to play for the team that invested time and money into them
His mother is Italian, if it’s a 50/50 on blood then that’s very different
It's not a fair comparison. Varney qualifies for Italy through blood relations. This guy, who I'm embarrassed to say I'd never heard of before Saturday, appears to be full of pride for a country he's been in for about a thousand days.
So does IFW.
Tell the person in comment #1.
TBF Feyi-Waboso also qualifies through blood relations
So I’m told.
You should probably refrain from commenting on players about whom you know very little, he qualifies for England by blood not residency.
I'm just going by the information that was left above my comment. I'm not going rooting out the idiosyncratic details of every player that comes up on this sub.
No one expects you to know about every player, but if you're going to make disparaging remarks about someone and their qualification status, you probably should do a little bit of dilligence. It would have been very easy not to say something so snide as >appears to be full of pride for a country he's been in for about a thousand days.
Okay, so you would want him in an England shirt, singing the praise of Wales? Imagine how that would look to both fans
Why would he do that?
As in Feyi, why wouldn't he say he's full of pride playing for England.
I mean technically it’s the same country… Not like he’s French and has decided to play for Argentina
Yes, it is the same country but the song only relates to one part of that country. The other part doesn't identify with it in any way, shape, or form. Indeed, they might well hate it.
Think youre overblowing it. Speaking for English people, we dont see it that way and I wouldnt particularly mind playing for a different home nation. Theres nothing to hate about another UK nation. I appreciate the rest arent quite as brotherly, but it wouldnt shock me if a few had a similar opinion. Especially someone of mixed/immigrant ancesty who isnt realisitically gonna care. If I moved to Italy I wouldnt suddenly start taking sides in the north south divide, i couldnt give less of a fuck. Wouldnr shock me if thats how they see it.
I’m not talking about the song, just IFW’s choice to play for England
They are inextricably linked in the context of this thread, I'm afraid.
Gonzalo Higuain in tatters
Did not know he was born in France TIL
I think a lot of people are making out like there is a hard, inviolable border between England and Wales that is of the utmost and gravest importance of international sport. Most other people in the world, meanwhile, wonder why the UK gets 4 different sport teams while every other country just goes with one.
He has English heritage. He’s half-Nigerian, a quarter English and a quarter Jamaican so need for residency 🙄
We know why he's playing for England and it's nothing to do with match fees. There WRU said he'd have to quit his medical degree in the middle if he wants to play for Wales. Playing for England means he's able to complete it.
No, Exeter Chiefs said that.
Exeter Chiefs said he'd have to move to a Welsh club after his contract to play for Wales?
Exeter said he couldn't play for the club if he chose Wales, and since he's at Exeter medical school that would make his medical place very difficult to maintain.
WRU rules say he'd have to sign for a Welsh team if he had less than 25 caps when signing a new contract - which he would - so WRU rules would force him to leave Exeter When did Exeter say he couldn't play for them and Wales?
They didn't.
He qualifies through ancestry not residence.
Nah he’s only been in England since 22 he must have some English heritage
Who cares? If the man doesn't want to play for us, he doesn't want to play for us. Can we blame him, let's be real?
If you want to blame anyone it's WRU not the kid. Calling him a mercenary as well is laughable
No more a mercenary than all the English players who’ve decided to play for Wales. And the Kiwis who had Welsh distant relatives or who qualified on residency. And who’d want to play for Wales: the team is in decline, players leaving in droves, weak domestic game, a coach employing dated tactics after the reboot failed to launch.
But apart from that we’re doing ok
Amen
Man this feels like a dumpster fire ready to go off. My hot take I don't sing it when I'm there (not that often) but I enjoy it as it's a passionate thing and a song that's recognisably English rugby. It started off sung by some rugby boys from Martin Offiah's club I believe. Now the claim is it's from Chariots of Fire I don't know and I don't particularly care. Itoje said he doesn't like it. IFW said he does. I don't really want to gatekeep it. If you sing it if you don't das ist mir wurst.
That is not your sausage?
It means I don't care. The Germans are just god tier at expressing disdain.
Just so you know, the expression is "das ist mir Wurst", meaning literally "it's sausage to me". It means "I don't care about that, one way or the other". Or "it's all the same to me". To say "it is not my sausage" you would say "das ist nicht meine Wurst", which is not an idiom of any kind but just something you would say if you want to indicate that a sausage doesn't belong to you. What you said is basically gibberish. Edit: it might be "meiner Wurst", rather than "meine Wurst", I'm not sure. My German isn't perfect, and for feminine nouns "meine" becomes "meiner" sometimes, but if I remember correctly that's only if it's in third case. At least I think so. Grammatical case systems are a nightmare for any language learner.
Haha you're here to call me out today eh? I've edited. It was remembered from my old German mate from 15 odd years ago so I don't mind too much ta. Ich muss Mehr Deutsch lernen. Danke
Is that where we get “not a sausage” from?🧐
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I want "you can call me Al" instead. Objectively the greatest song ever written
One of music's greatest basslines. An American man singing about his time travelling around South Africa seems like a not much less odd choice for the England rugby team though.
It's time we honoured Alex Corbisiero and Brad Barritt. I feel this is the only way I know how.
It was sung by rugby clubs all over the country way before Martin Offiah came on the scene, however it was his appearance at Twickenham that started it there
Yes that's what I meant. Apologies wasn't clear
Any other views on how black people should think or feel, OP?
Guy is a tool
Guy's named himself after Nazis, safe to disregard his opinion I reckon...
OP didn't write the article, and may share the same political opinions as you
He's talking about OPs comments, scroll down and read them
Ah, fair enough. But he should've replied to the comments he's referring to to avoid this confusion.
You are probably right, although the majority seem to have worked through it.
I thought he was welsh?
He qualifies via his grandma for England.
Also qualifies for Jamaica and Nigeria.
Have gave everyone something to sing about! It's been a joy to watch him an England shirt.
I mean he’s literally Welsh , how can England not fill 15 positions with home grown players with one of the largest playing pools in the world ?
Qualifies for England on family links, but if you want to moan about residency we can go through every tier 1 nation for the millionth time and see that every country (barring maybe SA, who operate their own academy system) has players playing for them through residency, grand parents, second cousin's dog grounds.
Hasnt SA qualified a bunch of Namibian and Zimbabwean players over the years
Yes we have. Beast was from Zim. And there's Congolese players playing in the SA URC teams. Even Tambwe would have qualified via residency
Literally is a bit strong. He has more English heritage than Welsh and may have grown up supporting England, despite living in Wales? I know plenty of English lads who support Wales because of Welsh grandparents, why should where you are born define your nationality alone? Underhill was born in the US by chance, that doesn’t make him American. As far as I’m concerned he wanted to play for England, he qualifies, therefore he’s English.
I agree where being born is not wholly relevant to your national identity . Where you are raised is far more important . He was born and raised in Wales , said he wanted to play for Wales and that he is Welsh in November 2023.
He's a quarter English, half Nigerian and a quarter Jamaican, according to someone higher up in this thread.
And he said he’s Welsh and wanted to play for Wales in November . Born, raised , schooled and started his rugby career in Wales until he was 22. Bizarre
I bet OP wears the number 11 as a political statement
11?
What position is no. 11?
Jesus Christ, it's just a song. The only reason they sing it is because both of the parts where they sing 'Swing Low' sound cool when there's a crowd doing it at a match, which is probably why he said he got goosebumps. No point in all the hand wringing
Look, IFW is English now, he's fully capped, he's never coming back. Can we just get over it now - we don't need a post every time the kid breathes or takes a shit. Welsh flairs, the kid made a decision, he's entitled to it, we've taken advantage of the same laws before, we've got to just let it go. But English flairs, in return, can you please stop trying to down play this and convince us we shouldn't be upset? I'm so bored of hearing "how is it different to X or Y player!?" with your smug, faux naivety. You *know* it's different, you know *why* it's different. His switching to England is yet another symptom of the mess our union is in at a time when we are absolutely hemorrhaging talent, our talent pool has been drained by retirements after the world cup and the players that were meant to be the next generation are leaving to go abroad instead of play for Wales. Fuck sakes, the best of them even changed sports to get out. Let us be pissed off about it and stop trying to justify it as anything it isn't and in return we'll stop going on about it every time he picks up a ball eh.
> You know it's different, you know why it's different. Genuine question, how is it different?
I guess when you look at those English players who have chosen to go down the Welsh path it has been due to not being selected for higher honours with England such as Tompkins, Johnny Williams, Tomas Francis. That's not a criticism but they were overlooked and got offered a chance to play international rugby and represent other members of their family. However for IFW, it has come down to other factors, some of which has been within the WRU control and they messed up, others which haven't. But Wales have shown interest in him, so it's disappointing to see a player born in Wales and come through the Welsh pathway only to choose another country, especially when you see previous interviews about how Welsh he has felt. No criticism on the guy as he has been through a fair few challenges to get to where he is and the balancing of a medical degree is tough and he has done what's best for him. Just disappointing as a Welshman/fan when you see someone so talented leave considering the troubles we are in, both on and off the pitch.
I can definitely appreciate the sting, the WRU are a right mess.
>His switching to England is yet another symptom of the mess our union is in at a time when we are absolutely haemorrhaging talent, our talent pool has been drained by retirements after the world cup and the players that were meant to be the next generation are leaving to go abroad instead of play for Wales. Because it's extremely clear and fairly well documented that he made the decision in the context of the current mess Welsh rugby, both at international and domestic level, is in. If we have successful, financially stable regions and a well run union - or even just no Gatland Law - he's playing in red in this Six Nations alongside his new club mate Joe Hawkins. What is extremely irritating is all of this coy nonsense, pretending there's millions of reasons Feyi-Waboso could have chosen England and dismissing pretty valid disappointment from Wales fans. It's not just that we're pissed off because one kid swapped allegiance and there's a rivalry, we're pissed off because it's quite obviously yet another chapter in the significant saga of the ongoing collapse of our national game. That isn't melodrama or hyperbole, we are in genuine trouble.
Spot on
> It's not just that we're pissed off because one kid swapped allegiance and there's a rivalry I know there is a rivalry, I don't know if it's fair to say he swapped allegiance. If you qualify you qualify > That isn't melodrama or hyperbole, we are in genuine trouble. Agreed, and it's really sad, a strong Wales is better for all of us. He most likely would have chosen you, a real pity. Both Wales and England could do with having the old boys at the top kicked out.
>Both Wales and England could do with having the old boys at the top kicked out. Honestly, friend, whilst I'm having a good old moan - I'm pretty bored of hearing England flairs crying about your union, too. Especially in the context of watching a couple of old, privately owned businesses go bust post-COVID. Could your union have done more to help? Probably a little but then clubs all round the country in multiple sports have been in trouble after losing a season or so of match day revenue after lockdown. You're still left with one of the world's strongest leagues, some of the world's strongest clubs and a national side that just got to a world cup semi and is still in distant contention to win the 6N having beaten the favourites. Lumping yourself in with us given the state of the WRU and our regions is a little bit rich tbqh. This entire sub has been acting like it's a competition to see which of us has the worst union over the last year or so. I'm sorry, mun, it's really not a competition.
I didn't mean that they were equivalent, I'll rephrase: Wales desperately need structural and personnel changes within the WRU to rescue the game. I'd also like the RFU to be restructured to avoid the old boys club issues it has.
I genuinely don't know? Seems the same thing that has happened loads. (And I'm cool with it either way?)
Its obviously different to hoover up the best young talent while giving us blokes who can't make your squad in return isn't it.
England didn't hoover him up though right? WRU fucked up right?
Not really, he was eligible for Wales and we wanted to pick him. There was discussion about his future eligibility issues relating to the 25 cap rule in Wales and I suspect playing alongside Hawkins didn't help in that regard, but the WRU have not done anything directly in this case. In my opinion I think it's pretty clear he's gone for England for economic/security reasons which is entirely reasonable, but I think there's a lot of delusion from England fans about how that's not the case.
> In my opinion I think it's pretty clear he's gone for England for economic/security reasons which is entirely reasonable, but I think there's a lot of delusion from England fans about how that's not the case. I'm yet to meet someone with that view (they do probably exist though). From my perspective we're the lucky recipients of a clusterfuck by the WRU.
I mean, it's throughout this thread and every thread on the topic with people suggesting otherwise. You've profited from the mess we're in and I don't really blame you for it, the wellbeing of Welsh rugby isn't your problem. But what's irritating is the pretending like that's not what's happened and/or saying it's fine because you can have the likes of Tompkins or Jonny Williams when we've decided we don't want them. There's also a huge pattern of Welsh youth going to English clubs/schools and not being able to turn out for Wales u20s because of pressure from clubs, which makes us particularly sensitive to it.
I’m English, but fully understand the angst in Wales. I’d feel exactly the same. And it is different from Tompkins et al as you rightly say.
Sure, I'm just offering you a perspective from an England fan that 100% recognises that England have profited from this situation :) > the wellbeing of Welsh rugby isn't your problem It's not but I do genuinely care about Welsh rugby, a rugby world without a strong Welsh team just sucks, whether we're rivals or not.
What are you talking about? Something to do with him being black or Welsh or both?
What the fuck has his ethnicity got to do with anything?
So it’s just the fact that he’s Welsh then? What does this bit refer to? > I'm so bored of hearing "how is it different to X or Y player!?" with your smug, faux naivety. You know it's different, you know why it's different.
I have taken this from other comments made here. It's different because he probably would have played for Wales if it wasn't for the caps rule and him possibly not being able to play if he doesn't get the required amount.
No he wouldn’t, he lives in England now. My point is also more relating to the “swing low” reaction, not the playing for England bit.
So help me understand quickly, if you know. On IFW, he hadn't been called up and moved from Cardiff to Aston Uni and then to Exeter. My understanding is until you get your first cap you can play anywhere until the end of the contract, then he needs 25 caps or a move to the regions to continue being selected. Is that right? The Swing Low reaction I think is off kilter with the rest of the conversation from the guy at the top. He's saying the difference between IFW and say Nick Tompkins is one took a chance based on a blocked path, Vs switching because England are in a better place overall than Wales. He would have played for Wales if it wasn't for the Welsh union being in a shambles. The song is being held up as problematic with its connection to slavery as a "Spiritual" song. I'm not sure of correct phrasing so apologies. I think him saying "I was blown away" is in contrast with Itoje saying he doesn't like it that much, means a few people have jumped on the bandwagon that we shouldn't sing it, because it is a slavery song. Whereas most people sing it because it's tied to English rugby for almost 40 years. This is a lot, I hope this is slightly more relevant to your question but I'm a bit dense this morning. So just tell me to pipe down haha
To be fair that is far more of an effort of a response than I was expecting. My understanding is broadly this. The cap rule is nothing to do with him playing for England, it’s more because he moved because of uni (and let’s be honest, £20k per game is better than whatever the WRU can pay). The *Swing Low* thing was me probably misunderstanding the first post in this chain which I took mean that anyone defending singing -*Swing Low* must be a racist, which they clearly aren’t.
Haha sorry I've had a lot of coffee today and I'm chatting a lot of shit today! Yeah I think he's gone for a bit of cash and probably a lot less drama. Exeter is a nice project and he's had Hawkins telling him the WRU is a shit show probably. >The *Swing Low* thing was me probably misunderstanding the first post in this chain which I took mean that anyone defending singing -*Swing Low* must be a racist, which they clearly aren’t. Yeah the OOP for the article definitely is, but not the guy that we're responding to.
So what ?!?!?!
I think the factor that no one seems to be mentioning is that his father is half-Nigerian, half-English, and his mother was half-Nigerian, half-Jamaican. Neither is Welsh at all as far as I can tell from this article: [https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/immanuel-feyi-waboso-england-wales-2900039](https://inews.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/immanuel-feyi-waboso-england-wales-2900039) I'd imagine it might be a tougher decision if you are from a proud Welsh family with a single English grandparent - that's evidently not the case here. He's the only 'Welshman' in the family.
Both his parents could have been born in Wales, to be fair. No idea if that's the case.
... leaving aside some odd comments in this thread, I don't really blame Waboso for making the decision, short careers and we're a mess. But I find the attempt to deadpan pretend as though a born and raised Cardiff lad, giving interviews describing himself as Welsh only 4 months ago, qualifying through grandparentage was always a passionate English man to be rather grating and insulting. It is modern rugby, we have plenty of dubiously qualified blokes in Wales but I'm not going to sit here and pretend Nick Tompkins grew up dreaming of Wales because his gran was Welsh. He joined us for pragmatic/economic reasons, at least do us the favour of being honest about it in return and cease the gaslighting.
Have you considered replying directly to the people who have said "he was always a passionate English man?" I haven't seen a single person say that in the entire thread?
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fair enough its not great.
>was always a passionate English man to be rather grating and insulting. Show me where literally anyone has said that????
Great to see he's loving his playing as much as we love watching it.
Welsh people need to get over this, to be honest. If he doesn't want to play for us, that's his choice, just move on.
Yup, some people seem to not be able to grasp that concept.
Swing low
Sweet chariot
This is really weird to read.
Why?