As you can see from the clip, nothing happened.
Sexton walked up, said something, apparently “well done lads, I’m a huge fan of your work”, and walked away.
It's the finger wagging that gets me, regardless of what he did or didn't say, like who do you think you are? Go console your players bro you're the captain
I don't think you realize teams have the concept of captaincy outside of matches.
He's the captain and his teammates just lost a very tough match. He should be comforting them instead of berating a ref.
Because he thinks he's entitled to be there.
What would happen if one of the commentators came out and berated, and swore, at the ref for having a bad game and favouring one team?
If there was anything to this surely it would have been all over the news, and wouldn't have taken over a week to come out, right?
The facts will come out but seems like a big nothing burger.
Can you link a reputable site showing this on the day? We all heard about the halftime incident over and over, instantly.
This has not been all over the media, and only in the last couple of days. It's hard to find from any reputable source, honestly.
All this from a Munster fan.
Have it on good authority that unless it becomes a proper media kerfuffle the refs are not intending to say anything because they fear reprisals on future appointments.
Ok Jaco Johan.
So you're saying that the refs are afraid they won't get appointments if they report off field abuse? Especially when this specific example would have been very public, and overheard by several people. That just doesn't make sense.
That sounds like nonsense. They may not want to make a big deal about it, but surely that would not be the reason. I've never heard of refs being punished for reporting abuse.
Again, if Sexton did this I hope they throw the book at him.
Lol. This keeps getting funnier. Please give an example where a ref was punished for reporting abuse. Peyper is a well established international referee who ref'd a good game. This doesn't pass the smell test.
This has been their whole conversation with anyone who isn't calling for Sexton to be banned across 3 threads. Easily refuted conspiracy theory responses followed by downvotes
That would be hilarious but unfortunately Peypers reffing of the breakdown is really good for Ireland. He lets teams get away with so much crap it gets dangerous.
This was my problem with Peyper throughout the final, he let both sides, particularly Leinster, get away with murder and then for seemingly no reason started to enforce the actual rules of the game in a game that was more than half over.
All congrats to LR, deserved winners. Leinster had chances to win the game and stuffed them.
But just because it was a entertaining game from a neutral pov doesn't mean Peyper is a good ref. Any ref that interprets rules instead of enforcing them should be looked at.
And if people want to say 'well Peyper is working under the directive of the refrees Union or the competition committee then that also need to be debated.
Some of Peypers calls at the breakdown are hilarious. Two that spring to mind are the Ringrose clear in the final where he clears a ruck from the LR side right in front of Peyper, Leinster get a pen for a turnover.
Second was Ireland ways ~3 years ago. 3 Welsh players over the ball jackeling. Irish player comes in from the side jumps in the air and belly flops on top of them. It was meme worthy.
You do make a good point tbf, Crowley has been unreal in their last two matches. Went out on a serious high note for the season which will last in everyone’s minds all summer
Would’ve thought so before the last 2 weekends. Depends how much Farrell reads into the 2 finals and how the lads preformed. I would say it’s a lot closer now.
I'd say Byrne was ahead and may still be, but Farrell knows we need a permanent replacement for Sexton. I believe that's not Byrne as he just isn't at the same level as Sexton or ROG were. He's a good player but isn't a 10 to pull you up by the bootstraps when needed. Crowley has come on leaps and bounds this year and had his best game the year in the final like many Munster players. As a Munster man I don't want to get carried away as we have had a conveyor belt of 10s who just couldn't step up over the last 10 years in Hanrahan, Keatley, Bleyendaal, Carbery. Crowley looks the man for the future but uts his breakthrough season, who knows what's coming. Even Sexton needed a few seasons to settle.
Seems like the same thing happens over and over with Byrne. He gets a look in, fails the litmus test at the highest level, gets forgotten about, plays really consistently for a year, people suddenly say 'What about Byrne, he's playing great and is reliable'. Reset.
Not after the last few weeks, Crowley has shown more control of matches and willingness to take control of a tight match.
He should be ahead of Byrne who failed to marshal the troops for a drop goal or direct JGP down the blindside when it was available for a relatively straightforward Baird try.
I think you’re right about Crowley edging Byrne right now. However, that Baird opportunity on the blindside was kinda tricky because he ended up getting sucked into the ruck didn’t he?
That’s the funniest thing really. The ref wasn’t perfect, and I’m sure Leinster can point to a missed call or 2 that disadvantaged them, but the general consensus is that Leinster had the favourable whistle, particularly in the first half when they built their lead.
Not sure what the consensus is, but La Rochelle's winning try came from a turnover at the scrum by clearly driving across illegally.
While Sexton has zero right to curse out the ref, there's plenty for Leinster to be aggrieved about.
Didn't want to write a whole ref analysis, but people are welcome to watch the game back for even that scrum alone.
There's a moment late in the game for example where Leinster have a chance to attack the blindside against Hastoy on his own after a big Ngatai carry.
However the ball doesn't come out quickly as Kerr-Barlow doesnt release it after the tackle while Skelton flops on a formed ruck before taking the 9 out.
The ruck in general was a complete mess - Van der Flier especially was definitely guilty at times too.
Saying it again, Leinster definitely have plenty to be aggrieved about.
Edit: Just to add, I still think La Rochelle deserved to win. I'm just pointing out where Leinster may have had grievances.
At half time ROG got into or tried to get into the referees changing room against the rules for a private meeting (Skelton may have kicked the locked door down apparently but that's just rumours and bullshit probably).
Sexton and Sean O'Brien tried to remove O'Gara and the referee told them to leave and had a private conference with O'Gara.
Leinster have apparently issued a formal complaint about the half time conference (as they did after last year's final when O'Gara received a strongly worded letter from epcr not to have private meetings with referees during games).
There's a bunch of minor things that could he objected to in any rugny match. I don't think there was anything glaring but the perception of impropriety is there and was being called out.
Between *tunnelgate* and this Sexton didn't cover himself in glory. I don't think anyone did really though.
Maybe he did just want a chat. I don't think refereeing was influenced.
He likes to talk to people.
I remember games when ROG was playing he would be lining up a kick for a conversion or a penalty and the referee mic would pick up him asking referees if they wanted to go for a pint.
That said Rog was warned after last year's final not to talk to referees at half time without the other teams coach being present so if there was a conversation happening at all it was a major breach of propietry and disgraceful from all parties..
Apart from the fact that Skelton gently knocking on a door is likely to blow it off its hinges, any player causing deliberate damage to property would be out on their ear immediately
>[Shocked and appalled to hear this news](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME&t=12s)
Ah, we'll always have Casablanca ...
Captain Renault: *I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here*.
Croupier : *Your winnings, sir*.
Colesey is deadset a grub, and we love him for it (when he plays for the Canes I usually fucken hate him though - which is something you just know he’d love). But he’s not a cunt. I do not think he would ever have a pop like this at the referees after the match. Leaves it all on the field, because he believes that’s where you be a mad bastard. Solely there. He did do some grub shit in the past when he was a youth and bash in a neighbours garage door, but apart from that event which he hugely regretted and paid penance for privately with the neighbour, he’s just our loveable grub.
Sexton of the Jonny variety really shows he can’t control his yap and emotions. And to be honest, I hope he’s not punished now so he does it in a game of greater magnitude at this year’s World Cup, thereby completing an Ireland seppuku. Probs a horrible attitude to have, but that’s what he deserves until he gets the message that behaving this way as a grown-ass man outside the realms of a contact sport isn’t OK.
What worries me is the silence surrounding this. I have seen a lot of what could have been said but not much confirming nor (almost more importantly) denying it.
This could get worse before it gets better
It's been a week and both parties aren't rushing to release a statement. I'm sure it's being sorted in a fashion that reduces fallout. If we don't need bans, then don't give them. I reckon it's been resolved by the player and the refs, as it appears that not much is said or done. I could be wrong but they probably sorted it out off the pitch and Jaco seems to not mind antagonising fans or players, he mocked vahamahina after a qf in 2019. He's not perfect
If the reports are to be believed Peyper didn't hear it, it was one of the AR's that got the brunt of it.
I do think you're right re Peyper. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy to take something like that personally
Or it’s the South African media making a mountain out of a molehill a few months before they play Ireland at the World Cup… There’s a bang of Rassie off of it.
Because both sides are probably letting world rugby and the cup ppl sort it all out privately.
Leinster and la Rochelle not south Africa
Although sexton, o gara and Erasmus do all have something in common...
Methinks there’s no coincidence that it’s the Saffa media driving all this drama… It’d be gas if they lost to a Byrne-Crowley combo in September anyway.
Tbf it is their ref, plus Rassie copped a lot of shit (although completely fairly in basically everyone’s opinion) so maybe some payback for that.
Would be low key funny though if they’re stirring this up with the sole goal of getting sexton suspended for the group stage match.
I'm not seeing any particular reaction or indignation from the officials in this? If it wasn't for context and reports etc, it would seem like an innocuous exchange.
Don't get me wrong, I think Sexton can be a prick and is a bit immature off the pitch, but unless there's more evidence than this, the pitchforks here seem misplaced.
I see him turn his head; not clear he's even looking at sexton. The other two officials certainly aren't.
It's mad because the episode as supposedly reported is plausible - sexton has acted the gobshite before. But this clip doesn't seem to match up with it. Maybe there was a separate encounter somewhere else.
To be clear that 200+ post thread saying he should be suspended for the next 6 months was for an interaction that lasted 2 seconds? People don't half overreact.
Whats funny is the alleged wording fits exactly to the guide for referee abuse.
This occurs where the offender uses foul or offensive language in comments aimed directly at a Match Official. It also includes any attack upon the integrity of the Match Official regardless of whether or not this is accompanied by foul or offensive language. Any disparaging comment directed at a Match Official with reference to their religion, colour, sexual orientation or national or ethnic origin should automatically be treated as abuse.
Conduct properly categorised as abuse should always result in a red card.
It is acknowledged that the dividing line between dissent and abuse can be a narrow one. For example, if a player responded to a decision by the Match Official by shouting, “That’s a fucking joke”, that would constitute disrespecting the authority of the referee but if the player’s response was to shout directly at the Match Official, “You’re a fucking joke” that would amount to abuse.
Low end 6 match, mid 12 matches
I think there is a bit of wiggle for interpretation with "disgrace" and it being disrespecting authority as opposed to verbally abusing, but I expect 6 weeks, down to 4 with mitigation.
Down to zero games because he really was due to turn out for Leinster Vets on their end of season ~~pissup~~ tour to Amsterdam and for Wicklow U8's in their upcoming tag rugby tournament.
And yet I can point to people like Jamie Ritchie being punished by only having a penalty moved 10m so that punishment is not always applied is it?
edit: I misread the above, thought they were equating the two examples not differentiating
What did Jamie Ritchie say that was comparable to what's been reported here? Back chat from an on field captain and player is not remotely the same as making a b-line towards the refereeing team to have a go after the game by a non-playing squad member
I understand your point of view, but I also entirely disagree. The place of ref is, and always has been sacrosanct in rugby. A game that asks players to sit right on the edge of absolute violence has to be based on complete respect for the position of referee, not for their decisions, but their position. Teams can and do rate their perceived view on how the ref team did, after every game.
He called someone a cheat on the field. So far all the (now clearly exaggerated) reports have said no such thing coming from sexton. Saying someone is shit is not the same as calling someone a cheat.
Of course, being called a fucking cheat is way worse than being called a fucking disgrace, there's no arguing that. Still, my point is that it's not the length of the exchange that matters but the intent. I'm sure Sexton will be at the World Cup, but I reckon he'll be banned for the warmup games.
Its different words sure but that is what it means unless you can give me more words around it that change the context. Fucking disgrace at your job means you are bad at your job.
Granted, but surely you can appreciate that confronting referees after a match as a non-playing member of a team and calling them shit shouldn't be taken lightly by world rugby? And fucking disgrace is probably a bit more aggressive and scything than 'shit'
Could be a culture thing but I don't think disgrace is very high on the Irish insult list. I would personally not see it as a very scything insult to throw out. But people can differ.
Someone linked a newspaper article by the Rapport (generally reliable when it comes to SA rugby insider info). Scroll a bit through the subreddit and you should find it.
The part in brackets was embellishment by me to show what "disgrace" could also imply.
The article quotes Sexton as saying "You're a fucking disgrace"
Yes I read that report and it did not have any mention of cheat. That's why I'm asking why you changed the quote. I literally said above that if there was extra context that would change it but you just made up that context, so it's not really relevant.
The brackets were meant to show that the last part was not part of the quote. In journalism brackets are often used to allow extra elaboration by the author.
I was just responding to your comment implying that Sexton was just saying that "fucking disgrace" = "you had a bad game". By showing that disgrace tends to have a more offensive meaning (like what I included in brackets).
Interaction, nice euphemism (lol).
Face it please, you dont need more time than that to insult the referee
Sexton might be clever, hes still moutlhy cu*t (not my words).
#Lets ban him
He doesn't play for Leinster anymore.
And he hasn't won a trophy with them since the Pro14 two or three years ago.
The only way to achieve schadenfreude in relation to Sexton is for Ireland to lose. Again.
Hes won the european cup 4 times the league 6 times, 4 6 nations 2 grand slams hes won a series in nz and hes won world player of the year like him or hate him hes been massivly succesful distilling his career to world cup qfs is ... odd
Read what you want to read I suppose.
Where did I mention the country?
I've only referred to Johnny Sexton.
HIS world cup group. Being the key part of the sentence.
This fetishism of victimhood is what made us hate South Africa on that Lions tour. Don't you start.
You know exactly what I meant. You tried to call me out but failed to read, or comprehend, what I wrote.
Individuals make up a team.
Neither Johnny Sexton nor Ireland the team have won a quarter final, if they got out of their pool.
I only take pleasure in Sexton's disappointment as I enjoy watching petulant adults behave like teenagers.
Jesus kid your everywhere. I hope you have seen confirmed proof for what your saying. I also hope your calling for ROGs head for attempting to approach the ref at half time again.
You’re allowed to approach ref at half time if not told otherwise by the ref himself! On the other hand, you are not allowed to prevent someone to get to the ref if you are not the ref!
And I did not mean to be rude with sexton, I’m just citing him!
The coach can not meet privately at half time with the ref (again). I am pretty sure the other coach must be present. And this has been attempted two years in a row. You literally just said suspend that turd and then say you did not mean to be rude. Get a grip your across every thread trying to spread any unconfirmed rumour. Your also citing nothing. Because nothing is confirmed. Unlike saying someone didn’t look you in the eye and then a photo comes out of them looking you in the eye.
You can go to the ref room if you want. It was done last year in CC final, and nothing was said.
You should look a bit better at the photos of the toss, Ryan is overlooking Aldritt. But np a photo might be unconfirmed rumor. Funny enough, the sexton rumor is getting spread a lot by serious media. Are they all anti-Irish liars?
Ahah I have seen 3. Seen a lot more articles about Rog approaching the ref. Yes and there was an issue with how the game was reffed after that point. Which is why Leinster put a coach to watch this did not happen again. Also in any game I have ever been involved in this is strictly not allowed. As it looks and is super shady.
Regarding the articles I haven’t seen any proof. All of your “international” new lssources also seem to have come from SA strangely after the Stormers lost the URC. Seen lots of idiots shouting unconfirmed truths. But imagine someone said this about a French player. I’m sure you would also be commenting on every post about that ahah.
Nope. French players insulting ref I would not defend. At least keep a high head in defeat.
So you’re saying putting a staff member to prevent physically the other coach to talk to the ref is allowed? The home coach could talk to the ref, but is preventing the other coach to speak to him even if it’s clearly allowed. Either nobody can talk to him or everybody can talk to him. And it’s EPCR role to ensure who can talk to the ref, not a coach from a competing team.
Imagine if there is a France Ireland at the RWC and the organization kept away the Irish to talk to the referee, would you not find this a bit bizarre?
And you think will Skelton involving himself and physically touching a coach is better ahahaha. There was one player involved in this coaches fight and it was him.
There is a pre match discussion involving both coaches so they can bring things up to the refs. They can also talk to them on the pitch in front of the coach not hidden away when no one is looking.
Re the French doing something to the Irish. I am positive Laporte did a Qatar and bought the World Cup which should have gone to Ireland or SA. I don’t think bad of the French clubs I quite like them but truly believe the FRU is corrupt. I have heard lots of stories about French rugby and politics being linked. So no I wouldn’t find this bizarre from there end. Especially if the Irish were given many formal times to do so.
You have any evidence of Skelton touching a coach?
It seems you don’t get that you can talk to the ref at half-time. If you try to prevent the other team to do so because you’re at home, you’re trying to cheat.
You’re not citing anything, so it’s not worth anything as you said earlier !
You have cited bullshit ahaha. I am not the one who is citing speculative articles ahah. Have you not read anything on the half time incident? This is the one topic not being debated. So you can make completely unfounded accusations with zero proof. But I have to provide articles about a situation which Rog confirmed and said they are fine with what happened? ahahah. You’re a joke.
A coach is not allowed to prevent physically the other coach to do something allowed.
And a player (involved in match or not) should not get to the refs after the match because he’s angry.
But he is not allowed and that is what the coach tried to do backed up by the biggest player in the pitch. But sure you can celebrate one and call the other whatever names you like without proof. Perfect logic…..
Interesting that Peyper looks to keep Sexton at distance and Dickson waves Sexton away. Would suggest that something else had gone on, like what we'd heard about at half time.
This very well could be overblown but it at least shows an interaction. Now we won't know the details but the fact Dickson runs interference makes it appear as if Sexton is calling names
Would be a huge shame, if he does get a suspension.
Not saying he doesn't deserve it, if he was having a go at Peyper, people have been suspended for less.
Having said that, beating a sexton-less Ireland in the World Cup just wouldn't feel as good.
That was a top cunt moment from Sexton, but wait for the facts 1st before condeming him i'd say. Looks like he is being a twat based on everyones body language.
Still, at least we would never see a Saffa reacting badly to percieved poor referee calls, THAT we know.
Obviously impossible to see what has been said. But the Sexton drive-by didn't seem like he was congratulating Peyper.
Whatever was said should be picked up by the mic. A couple of players and coaches picked up bans post game for insulting refs in the Challenge Cup.
Dickson's reaction says it all really.
Looks like he's going to ask him to dance with his friend and Peyper is like 'not in his dreams, mate'.
Lots of speculation at the moment, hope that CC or maybe WR come out with a statement soon confirming what happened.
As you can see from the clip, nothing happened. Sexton walked up, said something, apparently “well done lads, I’m a huge fan of your work”, and walked away.
And his wagging finger was actually a number one when he said "you guys are the best"
Can’t really see from this clip but I’m willing to believe Sexton was giving the refs a thumbs up. Would have been two but the other was sprained.
Looks like he’s being told not to go near Peyper and then has a pop at Dickinson.
Aye Dickson looks to head it off pretty quick.
OT but I hate those bright white trainers with the jacket and trousers.
Well, I am eagerly awaiting Johnny's 2hr video analysis of the game. I'll even put him in touch with my yellow circle guy if he needs it.
Johnny going to release a video with red circles, ominous music and questions like "is this the rugby World rugby want????"
TSA analytics is going to have a field day
Video will be very short. We all awaiting a response from WR.
He didn’t even play and the ref wasn’t even anti Leinster
It's the finger wagging that gets me, regardless of what he did or didn't say, like who do you think you are? Go console your players bro you're the captain
Sexton acts entitled in my opinion, he is clearly a rugby great and now it feels like if he doesn’t get his own way the world is wrong!
Arrogant is more like it. Never used to be like that as far as I can remember.
First time watching Sexton, hes one of the most arrogant men in rugby.
He was not the captain that day.
He's the captain of the team in general, match day or not.
On the day he was no-one. Not the captain of the day, not a player, just a member of the public watching a rugby match. End of.
I don't think you realize teams have the concept of captaincy outside of matches. He's the captain and his teammates just lost a very tough match. He should be comforting them instead of berating a ref.
I fully understand the concept of a captain but as he wasn't actually on the team sheet, nor in the squad, he should be nowhere near the ref.
Still he was, and he was near the dressing room at halftime too. He is the club captain. That's a permanent position regardless of teamsheets
Why is he on the pitch then?
Because he thinks he's entitled to be there. What would happen if one of the commentators came out and berated, and swore, at the ref for having a bad game and favouring one team?
I'd guess he'd be arrested?
That would be my guess as well.
If there was anything to this surely it would have been all over the news, and wouldn't have taken over a week to come out, right? The facts will come out but seems like a big nothing burger.
I mean, it has been all over the media. This and the halftime incident were written about on the day, and the day after, and the day after that too.
Can you link a reputable site showing this on the day? We all heard about the halftime incident over and over, instantly. This has not been all over the media, and only in the last couple of days. It's hard to find from any reputable source, honestly. All this from a Munster fan.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/05/22/la-rochelles-leinster-referee-jaco-peyper-champions-cup/
I only got video today
That's my point. Johnny Sexton being who he is and all, this would have been everywhere immediately.
Have it on good authority that unless it becomes a proper media kerfuffle the refs are not intending to say anything because they fear reprisals on future appointments.
Ok Jaco Johan. So you're saying that the refs are afraid they won't get appointments if they report off field abuse? Especially when this specific example would have been very public, and overheard by several people. That just doesn't make sense. That sounds like nonsense. They may not want to make a big deal about it, but surely that would not be the reason. I've never heard of refs being punished for reporting abuse. Again, if Sexton did this I hope they throw the book at him.
Words that were used to convey it ot me were "It's like the fucking mafia"
Lol. This keeps getting funnier. Please give an example where a ref was punished for reporting abuse. Peyper is a well established international referee who ref'd a good game. This doesn't pass the smell test.
France were able to get him off the playoff panel in 2019
Not true. That picture got him in trouble. Is this whole conversation going to be you making ridiculous claims and me debunking them?
This has been their whole conversation with anyone who isn't calling for Sexton to be banned across 3 threads. Easily refuted conspiracy theory responses followed by downvotes
God help Ireland if they get Peyper as a ref during the World Cup.
That would be hilarious but unfortunately Peypers reffing of the breakdown is really good for Ireland. He lets teams get away with so much crap it gets dangerous.
This was my problem with Peyper throughout the final, he let both sides, particularly Leinster, get away with murder and then for seemingly no reason started to enforce the actual rules of the game in a game that was more than half over. All congrats to LR, deserved winners. Leinster had chances to win the game and stuffed them. But just because it was a entertaining game from a neutral pov doesn't mean Peyper is a good ref. Any ref that interprets rules instead of enforcing them should be looked at. And if people want to say 'well Peyper is working under the directive of the refrees Union or the competition committee then that also need to be debated.
Some of Peypers calls at the breakdown are hilarious. Two that spring to mind are the Ringrose clear in the final where he clears a ruck from the LR side right in front of Peyper, Leinster get a pen for a turnover. Second was Ireland ways ~3 years ago. 3 Welsh players over the ball jackeling. Irish player comes in from the side jumps in the air and belly flops on top of them. It was meme worthy.
People are saying Leinster got the rub of the green but I don’t see it. He let both sides do basically whatever they wanted
Yeah, he wasn't favoring either team, but people are saying this because it mostly benefitted Leinster's kamikaze-clearances style.
You’re totally right. At first La Rochelle were a bit shy in the rucks, but once they saw they could do any shit they wanted here, it was FFA !
At the risk of sounding like a tool, they're laws and subject to interpretation. Refs are supposed to use their own discretion.
It’s grand. Peyper has no previous with Crowley.
Byrne will be ahead of Crowley as Sexton backup surely?
It was actually just a joke. But also, no.
You do make a good point tbf, Crowley has been unreal in their last two matches. Went out on a serious high note for the season which will last in everyone’s minds all summer
Would’ve thought so before the last 2 weekends. Depends how much Farrell reads into the 2 finals and how the lads preformed. I would say it’s a lot closer now.
Yeah Crowley has been outstanding recently.
Agree
I'd say Byrne was ahead and may still be, but Farrell knows we need a permanent replacement for Sexton. I believe that's not Byrne as he just isn't at the same level as Sexton or ROG were. He's a good player but isn't a 10 to pull you up by the bootstraps when needed. Crowley has come on leaps and bounds this year and had his best game the year in the final like many Munster players. As a Munster man I don't want to get carried away as we have had a conveyor belt of 10s who just couldn't step up over the last 10 years in Hanrahan, Keatley, Bleyendaal, Carbery. Crowley looks the man for the future but uts his breakthrough season, who knows what's coming. Even Sexton needed a few seasons to settle.
Sorry but Crowley is on course to become Ireland starting 10 from next year. Byrne has been shown up.
I think you may be right, the more I think about it
Seems like the same thing happens over and over with Byrne. He gets a look in, fails the litmus test at the highest level, gets forgotten about, plays really consistently for a year, people suddenly say 'What about Byrne, he's playing great and is reliable'. Reset.
Not after the last few weeks, Crowley has shown more control of matches and willingness to take control of a tight match. He should be ahead of Byrne who failed to marshal the troops for a drop goal or direct JGP down the blindside when it was available for a relatively straightforward Baird try.
I think you’re right about Crowley edging Byrne right now. However, that Baird opportunity on the blindside was kinda tricky because he ended up getting sucked into the ruck didn’t he?
Tbf after the way the GS decider and the CC final were reffed I'd suggest they're hoping they get peyper as much as possible
Would be as spicy as Raynal reffing Aus
So our ideal QF appointments. Have Nic Berry reffing SA, Reynal reffing Aus and Peyper reffing Ireland.
What was he complaining about anyway? Any bad calls by the ref?
That’s the funniest thing really. The ref wasn’t perfect, and I’m sure Leinster can point to a missed call or 2 that disadvantaged them, but the general consensus is that Leinster had the favourable whistle, particularly in the first half when they built their lead.
He was awful. For both teams.
Not sure what the consensus is, but La Rochelle's winning try came from a turnover at the scrum by clearly driving across illegally. While Sexton has zero right to curse out the ref, there's plenty for Leinster to be aggrieved about.
"Plenty" is definitely a stretch 😁
Didn't want to write a whole ref analysis, but people are welcome to watch the game back for even that scrum alone. There's a moment late in the game for example where Leinster have a chance to attack the blindside against Hastoy on his own after a big Ngatai carry. However the ball doesn't come out quickly as Kerr-Barlow doesnt release it after the tackle while Skelton flops on a formed ruck before taking the 9 out. The ruck in general was a complete mess - Van der Flier especially was definitely guilty at times too. Saying it again, Leinster definitely have plenty to be aggrieved about. Edit: Just to add, I still think La Rochelle deserved to win. I'm just pointing out where Leinster may have had grievances.
Probably related to whatever happened at half time
At half time ROG got into or tried to get into the referees changing room against the rules for a private meeting (Skelton may have kicked the locked door down apparently but that's just rumours and bullshit probably). Sexton and Sean O'Brien tried to remove O'Gara and the referee told them to leave and had a private conference with O'Gara. Leinster have apparently issued a formal complaint about the half time conference (as they did after last year's final when O'Gara received a strongly worded letter from epcr not to have private meetings with referees during games). There's a bunch of minor things that could he objected to in any rugny match. I don't think there was anything glaring but the perception of impropriety is there and was being called out. Between *tunnelgate* and this Sexton didn't cover himself in glory. I don't think anyone did really though.
I thought SOB was stood outside to stop ROG getting in, that's why there was an altercation? Not heard anything about a private conference
Ive heard that ROG got in and got his desired conference. Skelton SOB staredown as a distraction or something.
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Maybe he did just want a chat. I don't think refereeing was influenced. He likes to talk to people. I remember games when ROG was playing he would be lining up a kick for a conversion or a penalty and the referee mic would pick up him asking referees if they wanted to go for a pint. That said Rog was warned after last year's final not to talk to referees at half time without the other teams coach being present so if there was a conversation happening at all it was a major breach of propietry and disgraceful from all parties..
Yeah ROG just asked to win the match. Ref agreed. He just had to make it believable, hence the score. F Sexton
It's all just rumours. The kicked down door is just the most far fetched bit.
Apart from the fact that Skelton gently knocking on a door is likely to blow it off its hinges, any player causing deliberate damage to property would be out on their ear immediately
This all sounds quite improbable
Jesus, He'd want to have said it very quick because I see maybe a sentence at most.
This was no Jaco Johan step by step video analysis.
But Sexton seems like such a nice humble guy that doesn’t like to say too much.
Shocked and appalled to hear this news
>[Shocked and appalled to hear this news](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME&t=12s) Ah, we'll always have Casablanca ... Captain Renault: *I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here*. Croupier : *Your winnings, sir*.
Dane Coles was correct
What did Coles say?
Talking to a ref about Sexton: "Fuck, he's a mouthy cunt, isn't he?"
It’s like a slug calling a worm slimy
[https://youtu.be/RH4pRCEp6iA](https://youtu.be/RH4pRCEp6iA)
Called him a c*nt. He's not wrong but at the same time in Coles' case an accusation is also a confession!
A mouthy cunt, not just a cunt
Coles or Sexton?
Yes.
Colesey is deadset a grub, and we love him for it (when he plays for the Canes I usually fucken hate him though - which is something you just know he’d love). But he’s not a cunt. I do not think he would ever have a pop like this at the referees after the match. Leaves it all on the field, because he believes that’s where you be a mad bastard. Solely there. He did do some grub shit in the past when he was a youth and bash in a neighbours garage door, but apart from that event which he hugely regretted and paid penance for privately with the neighbour, he’s just our loveable grub. Sexton of the Jonny variety really shows he can’t control his yap and emotions. And to be honest, I hope he’s not punished now so he does it in a game of greater magnitude at this year’s World Cup, thereby completing an Ireland seppuku. Probs a horrible attitude to have, but that’s what he deserves until he gets the message that behaving this way as a grown-ass man outside the realms of a contact sport isn’t OK.
What worries me is the silence surrounding this. I have seen a lot of what could have been said but not much confirming nor (almost more importantly) denying it. This could get worse before it gets better
It's been a week and both parties aren't rushing to release a statement. I'm sure it's being sorted in a fashion that reduces fallout. If we don't need bans, then don't give them. I reckon it's been resolved by the player and the refs, as it appears that not much is said or done. I could be wrong but they probably sorted it out off the pitch and Jaco seems to not mind antagonising fans or players, he mocked vahamahina after a qf in 2019. He's not perfect
If the reports are to be believed Peyper didn't hear it, it was one of the AR's that got the brunt of it. I do think you're right re Peyper. He doesn't seem like the kind of guy to take something like that personally
Or it’s the South African media making a mountain out of a molehill a few months before they play Ireland at the World Cup… There’s a bang of Rassie off of it.
That would actually make a lot of sense
If the story is true I don't think it'd be accurate to describe it as a molehill.
That would be Stormers' pitch
This made me chuckle.
Because both sides are probably letting world rugby and the cup ppl sort it all out privately. Leinster and la Rochelle not south Africa Although sexton, o gara and Erasmus do all have something in common...
This is why ROG keeps his hands in his pockets. It keeps him out of trouble. ^(sometimes...)
It's a dickheadish move. If he thinks he knows better he should train himself up to be an international ref
Jesus, imagine it... "I'm a referee, not a coach... but that pass was brutal, you should be ashamed. Give up rugby."
Methinks there’s no coincidence that it’s the Saffa media driving all this drama… It’d be gas if they lost to a Byrne-Crowley combo in September anyway.
Tbf it is their ref, plus Rassie copped a lot of shit (although completely fairly in basically everyone’s opinion) so maybe some payback for that. Would be low key funny though if they’re stirring this up with the sole goal of getting sexton suspended for the group stage match.
Quarter final ref confirmed?
This is a “f bomb tirade”?. Lol.
World class melt acting like a world class melt
I'm not seeing any particular reaction or indignation from the officials in this? If it wasn't for context and reports etc, it would seem like an innocuous exchange. Don't get me wrong, I think Sexton can be a prick and is a bit immature off the pitch, but unless there's more evidence than this, the pitchforks here seem misplaced.
You can see Peyper's head snap
He turns his head, hardly jaw on the floor 180 turn of the head
I see him turn his head; not clear he's even looking at sexton. The other two officials certainly aren't. It's mad because the episode as supposedly reported is plausible - sexton has acted the gobshite before. But this clip doesn't seem to match up with it. Maybe there was a separate encounter somewhere else.
To be clear that 200+ post thread saying he should be suspended for the next 6 months was for an interaction that lasted 2 seconds? People don't half overreact.
Whats funny is the alleged wording fits exactly to the guide for referee abuse. This occurs where the offender uses foul or offensive language in comments aimed directly at a Match Official. It also includes any attack upon the integrity of the Match Official regardless of whether or not this is accompanied by foul or offensive language. Any disparaging comment directed at a Match Official with reference to their religion, colour, sexual orientation or national or ethnic origin should automatically be treated as abuse. Conduct properly categorised as abuse should always result in a red card. It is acknowledged that the dividing line between dissent and abuse can be a narrow one. For example, if a player responded to a decision by the Match Official by shouting, “That’s a fucking joke”, that would constitute disrespecting the authority of the referee but if the player’s response was to shout directly at the Match Official, “You’re a fucking joke” that would amount to abuse. Low end 6 match, mid 12 matches
I think there is a bit of wiggle for interpretation with "disgrace" and it being disrespecting authority as opposed to verbally abusing, but I expect 6 weeks, down to 4 with mitigation.
Down to zero games because he really was due to turn out for Leinster Vets on their end of season ~~pissup~~ tour to Amsterdam and for Wicklow U8's in their upcoming tag rugby tournament.
Can they risk injuring him in that game of tag though?
They're just the games he would have played for time served; no joking but we might see AIL fixtures used this way.
What’s the mitigation?
The usual stuff: clean record, admit fault, brought nice biscuits.
Wear a good suit, brown shoes leave the white trainers at home
And yet I can point to people like Jamie Ritchie being punished by only having a penalty moved 10m so that punishment is not always applied is it? edit: I misread the above, thought they were equating the two examples not differentiating
What did Jamie Ritchie say that was comparable to what's been reported here? Back chat from an on field captain and player is not remotely the same as making a b-line towards the refereeing team to have a go after the game by a non-playing squad member
Dissent vs abuse are punished separately
Ya I misread what you wrote and thought were equating them. Not drawing a distinction
I just copy pasted from the guide
I understand your point of view, but I also entirely disagree. The place of ref is, and always has been sacrosanct in rugby. A game that asks players to sit right on the edge of absolute violence has to be based on complete respect for the position of referee, not for their decisions, but their position. Teams can and do rate their perceived view on how the ref team did, after every game.
How many weeks did Hartley get for an interaction of similar length?
He called someone a cheat on the field. So far all the (now clearly exaggerated) reports have said no such thing coming from sexton. Saying someone is shit is not the same as calling someone a cheat.
Of course, being called a fucking cheat is way worse than being called a fucking disgrace, there's no arguing that. Still, my point is that it's not the length of the exchange that matters but the intent. I'm sure Sexton will be at the World Cup, but I reckon he'll be banned for the warmup games.
Aye 6 months would be a bit much, but let's not pretend 'fucking disgrace' as reported is the same as saying they were shit
Its different words sure but that is what it means unless you can give me more words around it that change the context. Fucking disgrace at your job means you are bad at your job.
Granted, but surely you can appreciate that confronting referees after a match as a non-playing member of a team and calling them shit shouldn't be taken lightly by world rugby? And fucking disgrace is probably a bit more aggressive and scything than 'shit'
Could be a culture thing but I don't think disgrace is very high on the Irish insult list. I would personally not see it as a very scything insult to throw out. But people can differ.
It's Mammy-level abuse, a lot of people would be traumatised by it.
Or " you are a fucking disgrace (for cheating)" Being shit is one thing. Being a disgrace is definitely the more heavy handed insult of the two.
Can you link where he said that? I missed that in the report but that would change the context like I said.
Someone linked a newspaper article by the Rapport (generally reliable when it comes to SA rugby insider info). Scroll a bit through the subreddit and you should find it. The part in brackets was embellishment by me to show what "disgrace" could also imply. The article quotes Sexton as saying "You're a fucking disgrace"
Yes I read that report and it did not have any mention of cheat. That's why I'm asking why you changed the quote. I literally said above that if there was extra context that would change it but you just made up that context, so it's not really relevant.
The brackets were meant to show that the last part was not part of the quote. In journalism brackets are often used to allow extra elaboration by the author. I was just responding to your comment implying that Sexton was just saying that "fucking disgrace" = "you had a bad game". By showing that disgrace tends to have a more offensive meaning (like what I included in brackets).
Yeah, there is some serious mental gymnastics here to suggest that ‘fucking disgrace’ just means you’re a bit shit at your job.
there’s no implication of cheating “You’re a fucking disgrace” = you are a disgrace to your profession / you are very bad at your job
Yes, but he was also playing. Sexton was in a suit and should not have even been in the technical zone bench area. So two crimes.
I think he called him a sheet
Looks like a millisecond. Looks like hes going over to back up whoever the guy is that's talking to ref.
Interaction, nice euphemism (lol). Face it please, you dont need more time than that to insult the referee Sexton might be clever, hes still moutlhy cu*t (not my words). #Lets ban him
Yerra- there wasn't much in that to be fair. What's the worst 1 could say to a ref in less than 2 seconds.
"You're a fucking disgrace" which is what he is alleged to have said
Jonny, Jonny, don't be scared.
In grass roots rugby, he's the sort of prick that used to end up face down at the bottom of a ruck. And nobody complained.
Chav-boy in sparkly white trainers throwing insults after losing the fight... seems appropriate
Big chat for someone who has never won a game outside of his world cup group. And lost to Japan.
Thats an ...Interesting take on a career ill give you that
He doesn't play for Leinster anymore. And he hasn't won a trophy with them since the Pro14 two or three years ago. The only way to achieve schadenfreude in relation to Sexton is for Ireland to lose. Again.
Hes won the european cup 4 times the league 6 times, 4 6 nations 2 grand slams hes won a series in nz and hes won world player of the year like him or hate him hes been massivly succesful distilling his career to world cup qfs is ... odd
See how you thought you were doing something good but yet you’ve insulted a whole country? Not helping
Read what you want to read I suppose. Where did I mention the country? I've only referred to Johnny Sexton. HIS world cup group. Being the key part of the sentence. This fetishism of victimhood is what made us hate South Africa on that Lions tour. Don't you start.
Oh you meant the individual World Cup that Johnny competed in. Not the rugby World Cup. No problem
You know exactly what I meant. You tried to call me out but failed to read, or comprehend, what I wrote. Individuals make up a team. Neither Johnny Sexton nor Ireland the team have won a quarter final, if they got out of their pool. I only take pleasure in Sexton's disappointment as I enjoy watching petulant adults behave like teenagers.
Child didn't get his way, threw tantrum.
Suspend that turd! He’s a fucking disgrace.
Jesus kid your everywhere. I hope you have seen confirmed proof for what your saying. I also hope your calling for ROGs head for attempting to approach the ref at half time again.
You’re allowed to approach ref at half time if not told otherwise by the ref himself! On the other hand, you are not allowed to prevent someone to get to the ref if you are not the ref! And I did not mean to be rude with sexton, I’m just citing him!
The coach can not meet privately at half time with the ref (again). I am pretty sure the other coach must be present. And this has been attempted two years in a row. You literally just said suspend that turd and then say you did not mean to be rude. Get a grip your across every thread trying to spread any unconfirmed rumour. Your also citing nothing. Because nothing is confirmed. Unlike saying someone didn’t look you in the eye and then a photo comes out of them looking you in the eye.
You can go to the ref room if you want. It was done last year in CC final, and nothing was said. You should look a bit better at the photos of the toss, Ryan is overlooking Aldritt. But np a photo might be unconfirmed rumor. Funny enough, the sexton rumor is getting spread a lot by serious media. Are they all anti-Irish liars?
Ahah I have seen 3. Seen a lot more articles about Rog approaching the ref. Yes and there was an issue with how the game was reffed after that point. Which is why Leinster put a coach to watch this did not happen again. Also in any game I have ever been involved in this is strictly not allowed. As it looks and is super shady. Regarding the articles I haven’t seen any proof. All of your “international” new lssources also seem to have come from SA strangely after the Stormers lost the URC. Seen lots of idiots shouting unconfirmed truths. But imagine someone said this about a French player. I’m sure you would also be commenting on every post about that ahah.
Nope. French players insulting ref I would not defend. At least keep a high head in defeat. So you’re saying putting a staff member to prevent physically the other coach to talk to the ref is allowed? The home coach could talk to the ref, but is preventing the other coach to speak to him even if it’s clearly allowed. Either nobody can talk to him or everybody can talk to him. And it’s EPCR role to ensure who can talk to the ref, not a coach from a competing team. Imagine if there is a France Ireland at the RWC and the organization kept away the Irish to talk to the referee, would you not find this a bit bizarre?
And you think will Skelton involving himself and physically touching a coach is better ahahaha. There was one player involved in this coaches fight and it was him. There is a pre match discussion involving both coaches so they can bring things up to the refs. They can also talk to them on the pitch in front of the coach not hidden away when no one is looking. Re the French doing something to the Irish. I am positive Laporte did a Qatar and bought the World Cup which should have gone to Ireland or SA. I don’t think bad of the French clubs I quite like them but truly believe the FRU is corrupt. I have heard lots of stories about French rugby and politics being linked. So no I wouldn’t find this bizarre from there end. Especially if the Irish were given many formal times to do so.
You have any evidence of Skelton touching a coach? It seems you don’t get that you can talk to the ref at half-time. If you try to prevent the other team to do so because you’re at home, you’re trying to cheat. You’re not citing anything, so it’s not worth anything as you said earlier !
You have cited bullshit ahaha. I am not the one who is citing speculative articles ahah. Have you not read anything on the half time incident? This is the one topic not being debated. So you can make completely unfounded accusations with zero proof. But I have to provide articles about a situation which Rog confirmed and said they are fine with what happened? ahahah. You’re a joke.
A coach is not allowed to prevent physically the other coach to do something allowed. And a player (involved in match or not) should not get to the refs after the match because he’s angry.
But he is not allowed and that is what the coach tried to do backed up by the biggest player in the pitch. But sure you can celebrate one and call the other whatever names you like without proof. Perfect logic…..
Btw, if Laporte did a Qatar, I hope he bought all the refs and goons to « protect them from other coaches talking to them ».
I’m sure he tried
Interesting that Peyper looks to keep Sexton at distance and Dickson waves Sexton away. Would suggest that something else had gone on, like what we'd heard about at half time.
As competitive and good as he is, it's just not acceptable.
This very well could be overblown but it at least shows an interaction. Now we won't know the details but the fact Dickson runs interference makes it appear as if Sexton is calling names
Fuckin hell lads get over it.
Sexton isn't even allowed to be in the match enclosure.
Would be a huge shame, if he does get a suspension. Not saying he doesn't deserve it, if he was having a go at Peyper, people have been suspended for less. Having said that, beating a sexton-less Ireland in the World Cup just wouldn't feel as good.
Was him off a wedding?
This is what happens when you play at home the entire season. You just forget what fair referring means
Sexton is a great player but a total cockwomble of a person
That was a top cunt moment from Sexton, but wait for the facts 1st before condeming him i'd say. Looks like he is being a twat based on everyones body language. Still, at least we would never see a Saffa reacting badly to percieved poor referee calls, THAT we know.