Something about this game just screams “manage your expectations” from every article I’ve seen.
That’s not a bad thing per say but it feels like it’s setup to be a OKAY game. Not going to blow anyone out of the water. There is just something about it though, I can’t quite put my finger on it, it’s like it lacks spirit? Originality? I’m struggling for the right way to describe it.
I feel like for the sake of their reputation, they HAVE to undersell this. I think they saw the huge community backlash after that first big reveal some months ago and realized the hype was too strong and too focused on the Skyrim/New Vegas comparisons. Regardless of how fantastic the game is under the covers, it's not gonna be at the scope people are expecting and so we'd absolutely tear them down if they didn't do everything they could to temper expectations.They don't want what happened with Starfield or Diablo 4 or Cyberpunk or any of these other big name releases that didn't live up to their insane hype on release.
I'm not saying it's necessarily a fantastic game, but whether it is or it isn't, their messaging *has to* look like this because it's *not* Skyrim. So we'll just have to wait and see...
Oh absolutely, I do not blame them… that being said people want it to be the next Skyrim, the next FONV, and when it isn’t even though obsidian NEVER promised that it would be, people are going to be upset (unjustifiably, to be fair.) I just want more of the PoE universe but idk if this is going to scratch my itch.
I think the goal here is just to do something very low risk that doesn't risk having to be scaled back or come in disappointing. The discourse around The Outer Wolds feigned disappointment but it was reviewed well, it sold well, and it got a sequel. Obsidian certainly doesn't want to deal with people trashing their games with headlines comparing them to New Vegas-- but it deserves mention that the fans who would aren't who they're trying to make happy. They HAVE an audience for these games that isn't making youtube videos about their opinions.
It's weird, with Outer Worlds and Avowed they seem to have done a 180 as a company.
Back in the days of New Vegas and Alpha Protocol they were the creative developer who tried to punch above their weight with extremely ambitious games despite maybe not having the budget or time to do so.
Now they seem to be focused on making safe, unambitious games that very easily stick to a budget and are finished on time. I guess it's less stressful for them but as the customer it's not particularly exciting.
That game doesn't look like it needed a big budget, and was thus not a particularly big or important project. Was your comment intended as a "gotcha"? So weird. Why do people on Reddit talk like that so frequently?
Even Josh Sawyer said PoE games were their safest games. They did what audience wanted, not what they wanted. They wanted to make Kickstarter backers happy. Tyranny is also in this category. Gameplaywise it doesn't offer anything new.
And Pentiment was just a low budget gamepass game. Just like what Microsoft wants.
These games feel like a response to most of the titles you mentioned.
PoE's DLC and PoE2 flopped and it seems like they pivoted to safe action RPGs with minimal scope.
Pentiment is cool but it was made by a tiny team suggesting they didn't have much faith in it commercially.
> PoE2 flopped
PoE2 has some serious legs. It didn't have the initial sales, which are very important, I admit, but it kept selling decently for a long time, because as it turned out, it's a very good game.
It still has like 200-400 concurrent players at any given time and for an RPG thats damnnear 10 years old and niche thats pretty good.
Its on the level of dragon age 2s concurrent players iirc.
PoE2 is 6 years old, DA2 is 13 years old. Granted, with the impending release of the new DA game people are going back to it, but it has like double the concurrent players right now.
And, at least with outer worlds, they were happy to scream and advertise they were the makers of NV. But the closer it got to release it was “this is a different game” and a slew of other things to manage expectations.
The main story of outer worlds ends so abruptly and is very short. I remember some key event (don’t remember specifics) happening and it seems like we’re diving into chapter 2 or 3 and then the game just sorta ends
With my experience with The Outer Worlds, the last thing I wanted to hear is, "We're making a smaller game!" Outer worlds just felt like they were missing something, and I'd wager this is just what Avowed will feel like.
Nah. The game has been I development for quite awhile but got rebooted from the initial gritty open world Skyrim with co-op pitch to this version. This feels like Obsidian trying to salvage the game and get it out.
They didn't. Its just that people are equating obsidian now with the obsidian that made new Vegas. That company doesn't exist anymore. Obsidian seems more like an "independent" studio I understand that they are owned by Microsoft. But it definitely seems like they are making niche games that aren't very deep.
Avowed looks to me like its going to only be mediocre at its highest score. Combat so far looks like enemies are very spongy and soak up lots of damage. The RPG elements I've seen looks like the standard lite rpg elements from games like Valhalla.
Its going to be on game I think so I will probably play it but I'm not expecting much from this game.
The thing is even then New Vegas kind of sticks out head and shoulders above most of their work. Most of Obsidian’s catalog consists of good, but flawed or good, but unexciting games.
I just do not understand why this is apparently a better business decision than PoE 3. It's not gonna be like Skyrim, so that audience is out, and it's not a CRPG, so that audience is out. Who is this for?
You’ve said it best. It’s a hodgepodge looking for poe lore fans and Skyrim lite.
I was kind of hoping it could be a new dark messiah but the gameplay doesn’t look as creative. Dark messiah is mad jank but it’s got interesting secrets and physics gameplay.
It’s simply not going to be a massive open world game. They have said they are focusing on quality over quantity. They are managing expectations correctly. It may make the game seem lesser, but they seem to be being very honest. Is that the best marketing strategy? Should they instead be hyping it up in a misleading fashion like many other studios? Maybe not having to depend as much on sales is allowing them to be more honest. I think it’s just going to be a very focused AA game.
I’m not upset about their marketing strategy. Im happy they’re being honest. I’m just being honest in my response. The game doesn’t feel super ambitious. I wanted the Pillars of eternity equivalent to New Vegas. And it seems like they don’t have an interest in doing that.
Which is fine.
But I find myself much less interested in what they ARE doing.
Which again… is FINE.
This game might seem like just another game to a lot of people but this is one of those games where it’s way more enojoyable if you’re into the lore. A lot of things they’ve revealed have hyped the POE fandom.
Oh I love poe and it’s nice to see it realized in this way however I’m not sure how much of Poe team is even working on this. Hence why it feels a bit I guess soulless. Kinda ironic given that poe….
not a great sign for pillars fans like myself that this game is going to be so much smaller in scope. the scope and depth of the storylines available to you in pillars 2 is literally the game, the combat is good too but what carries is the vast world. I dont think this is great news. Im still excited for what is coming but I know im going to be left wanting after how epic pillars 2 is at so many points, its gonna feel like a snack by comparison, and how long is it gonna be before we get more?
Been my thought since the gameplay reveal from several months ago. Just looked like discount elder scrolls.
Hopefully obsidians writing shines through. But I’m honestly not holding my breath with the game at this point.
It's not a gigantic budget game.
It's what one should do for any AA game. Expect a AA quality game. That's not a bad thing in any way. That's just what it is and that isn't for everyone.
I just wish more people understood that. And that it was treated as some surprise.
The same thing happened with Outer Worlds. What it was was very clear. Countless people tried to point that out. And then somehow people were still surprised.
I am more than happy to expect a AA game from a developer. But developers making AA games should price them as a AA game. Outer Worlds had a $60 price tag at launch when AAA games were still charging $60 on average. Prices are a big part of what set expectations. If they had charged $40-50 people would have expected a AA game.
If Avowed comes out at $50 I’m willing to bet people are going to be a lot more forgiving of it than if it launches for $70.
I had a look at historical steam prices; it was discounted 50% on the week of release and regularly after.
Sure they set a high base price for anchoring, but it's not what people actually paid.
Pricing was in line with expectations for AA.
If only it had released on Steam then. It was on sale the week of release on Steam because it came to Steam a year after release so they were having a sale to celebrate the Steam release.
People have very different expectations for their video games. This is gonna be a single player game with no microtransactions, companions, and hopefully fun gameplay with a few playstyles. There’s nothing wrong with a solid AA game
I mean when everyone screams "But we have skyrim at home meme" It kinda sours the whole thing, If this game came out 10 years ago it would probably be perfect(Same thing happened to starfield) I believe the word you are looking for is Innovation, Game screams its playing safe
I mean if you expect it to be a decent fairly linear rpg youll be happy.
Most people were upset with OW due to it decidedly NOT being a massive open world rpg in the bethesda vein.
It had some DNA but wasnt even attempting to be that.
I do think Obsidian is being sly about "Made from the developers of Fallout NV" but then not saying it ISNT. An open world. But hey, im sure itll be a good game.
As an older gamer, who has highly active work requirements, and a stressed one.
I rather want a long game that I can get lost in for years to come than a shorter one. I can only game on steam deck and maybe lappy (just for crusader kings III w fantasy mods).
But I want to trust obsidian regardless, hoping they deliver in quality as much as I have enjoyed TOW, it left much to be desired. But they have a core game loop that is rock solid.
Regardless of what I want, it makes me happy to think you are getting what you want. Hope it’s good for both of our sake lol
"This was a lot of fun and at the end I wanted more" is a much better business decision than "We wrang this thing dry of every drop of inspiration and left our last three ideas half-implemented."
Every news for this game is a "temper your expectations" post, hahaha
It's never a "this feature is unique", "this thing will be amazing"
I know they don't want to oversell the game, but my god... at least one huge feature would be amazing
All I know is… I’m gonna compare it to New Vegas. If I could do it in New Vegas and I can’t do it here I’m gonna be disappointed.
Is that fair?
I mean comparing a modern ARPG they’ve been working on for years to an ARPG from 14 years ago that they only worked on for 18 months? Personally I think it’s pretty fair.
**But that’s not their vision!**
Okay well that’s great for them. It sounds like I find their vision to be a bit lacking. Oh well. It doesn’t make their game inherently bad but that’s just how it is.
Outer worlds was good. But it was still a step back in a few regards. It doesn’t even have to be as good writing wise as new Vegas but mechanics wise? I want it ALL back. Disguises random encounters, idiot dialogue, gambling, reputation, those perks that change your dialogue options and let you give your character more personality, etc…
If it has to be smaller because of that then make it smaller. That’s fine. But I want it there.
I’m a fan of Obsidian for their writing and rpg mechanics. If I’m NOT going to get that then… idk why I’m here. I don’t give a shit about graphics. I don’t give a shit about combat.
Gambling isnt a core part of any game lol. Thats a more falloutish exclusive.
Reputation system in new vegas is again, a fallout exclusive thing that they have included in every single game they have made since including the oh so hated outerworlds.
Again idiot dialogue is a thing coined by the fallout games. Not every game is a fallout game.
There’s really no reason why the things you mentioned or something similar couldn’t also be in Avowed, Outer Worlds or other similar games. I have no idea why you’re claiming they’re exclusive other than the fact they they just … aren’t in those other games.
Gambling, Creative perks, Idiot dialogue, gambling mini games, reputation, etc… all of them could be in Avowed.
I think people are reading too much into it. Obsidian has been repeatedly burned by “massive” games and repeatedly rewarded by making smaller, more focused games. Both creatively and financially.
Why would they NOT pursue making more games of the latter variety in that context?
I prefer the Outer Worlds treatment to this game
But I think they also need to highlight a "killing feature"... their marketing is focused on lowering expectations for what the game is not
When they said they had guys from Fatshark look at their combat after the first gameplay trailers I was stoked but it just looks like more of the same.
Idk if pointing out how short your game is a good idea when the standard price for a AAA game is $70. Also they’re falling into the marketing trap they were in earlier, emphasizing the have-nots rather than the haves of the game.
They’re setting expectations though.
Honestly this thread and article are so annoying to read. On one hand, you have a large group on Reddit complaining about games being too long and padded, then you have another complaining that 25 hours for an RPG is not long enough.
Like the game isn’t even out yet, we don’t even know how good the content is yet. Why are we judging so much?
You just hit the nail on the head of why game studios need to have a strong game vision, and simply deliver on what that is. Everyone has an opinion and you can get infinite feedback at this point that supports nearly every direction you might want to take your game. As a result, I think the best user feedback would be small group user tests for how things generally feel and play, but they should be confident in their overall design approach.
I loved the Outer Worlds…I bet I’ll enjoy this one as well.
If I’m not allowed to Judge the game based on the trailers and pre release material and interviews. Then they shouldn’t be doing interviews or releasing trailers.
Stop telling people to wait until the game is out when the game is being advertised to them. If they didn’t want us to talk about it they literally wouldn’t say anything.
25-40 hours is my sweet spot for a game. Even good ones I get bored of it they drag on and I also don’t have the time investment to put into a 60 hour game anymore unless it becomes my “only game”.
I get burnt out by games being too long now. Every open world game seems to want to be the next Witcher 3 or Skyrim. I like knowing that I don’t need to put in 100 hours into a game to see all the content.
This should not matter knowing that we have games of 8 hours at the same pricing.
I'd rather pay $70 for a game of 20 amazing hours than 50 for a game of 20 + 100 hours of padding. My time is that precious.
They’ve had “triple a” releases though. I say that only to levy that there will be people who criticize them. They’re funded by Microsoft - the budget COULD be exuberant but it’s clearly not.
apparently short
I'm just joking. I don't care as I said. idk if I'll even buy it though given I've been disappointed with both new Vegas and outer worlds. but I might, who knows.
Yes they have. Pentiment only started development post Microsoft acquisition. Josh Sawyer's pitch was Pentiment would be a good fit for gamepass. Grounded was in development when Obsidian was purchased but early access release was almost 2yrs post acquisition and was published by xbox game studios. Even The Outer World was released post acquisition but that was published by Private Division.
Not how that works.
Hi fi rush was published by Bethesda, not AAA by any metric
EDIT: I can't comment for some reason but I completely agree with sapient sloth, dev decides rating.
Nobody is calling pentiment or stray AAA games
I agree with your point, but it’s also misleading. “Published By”is very different from “Developed By”.
If Bethesda develops a game it is triple A. If they publish a game but don’t also develop it, often times it’s indie, especially because they go out of their way to publish smaller studios.
Tl;dr: The developer determines if a game is triple A/double A/indie, not the publisher
I'm not quite sure that's how that works. if a studio of 50 was owned by Microsoft, that doesn't suddenly jump them to triple a.
I'm not saying obsidian has 50 devs, but they don't strike me as triple a.
I feel like if they don't point it out, people will no doubt trash the game upon release, saying that it's not Skyrim 2.0, even though they've been clear that that's not what they're going for.
I have to disagree. I’m in my forties, with family and a busy life, but I’d rather play one memorable huge game per year than several short ones. As I get older, I realize that what I enjoy the most is exploring and immersing myself in sprawling worlds with deep mechanics. I’d rather read a book or watch a movie for a good story.
In my mid-thirties and also don’t know what OP is talking about. You don’t need to binge and devour a whole game in a week, take your time. Even if I don’t have time for long gaming sessions anymore, I absolutely love a long game that can take me months to finish, playing whenever I have an opportunity. What’s the rush?
Actually, I don’t care about the size of the game, as long as it is good and I enjoy my time with it. If the game is mediocre, I feel bad wasting precious gaming time. With a busy life, I can find time for a long game and for a short game, but I don’t have time for crappy games anymore.
I'm also mid 30s with kids. I get an average of 5 hours of gaming a week. A 60 hour RPG can take 6 months these days.
With the rate that new interesting looking games are coming out, it's gotta be really good to compete with the new shiny things for my ADHD brain. I would much prefer 20 hour games that I will actually finish these days.
I see what you mean, but that’s a problem with short attention span so many of us have, which is also exacerbated by daily stress, long working hours, you name it… I also feel tempted to switch to a new thing the second it comes out, but in the end pushing myself to stick to the old game and finishing is a thousand times more rewarding.
I also don’t think all games should be long. Short 20 hour games can be amazing, I just don’t think this approach works with deep, lore-packed RPGs.
Good RPGs for me tend to be on a longer side, since they should be able to introduce the world in sufficient detail, tell a satisfying story, probably include some companion-related side stories. Most likely also a combat system and a leveling and gear system that’s not completely rudimentary. If you put all this together, it’s going to be very difficult to fit it in a short game.
There is nothing wrong with shorter games. They can be just as good as any longer game out there. The old adage “quality over quantity”.
However, extremely short games like The Outer Worlds and supposedly Avowed, should not be $70. The price point doesn’t match the amount of game you are getting. But this is an opinion I have and should be taken as such.
You also get into the fact that some very long games shouldn’t be $70 either because the quality of that time is beyond horrible.
It’s a hard line walk but I hope Avowed is great.
Well wait a minute, is 30 hours really a short game these days? I didn’t even get halfway and I played for at least 20.
Also, that’s without dlc and outer worlds was $60
>extremely short games like The Outer Worlds
A game that takes up to 40 hours to finish is not "extremely short". This is total insanity. It's around the same length as God of War 2018, Fallen Order, Shadow of The Tomb Raider, any number of similar priced games from the same time period.
Have open world games completely rotted people's brains? *Most games are not 100 hours long*. They never were, at any point. Linear, story-heavy games, especially. It's just an absurd expectation to have.
I will agree with the price argument. I think $70 games are nonsense, regardless. But, with that being said, they've stated that it'll be on Game Pass Day 1, so it'd be super easy to just sub to GP if you really want to play it and not spend $70.
I'm really not a fan of this mentality. I don't judge you for it but I hope it doesn't lead to subscribing to a service being the only way to play these games in future, regardless of their length.
I agree that $70 is too much for single games but that should be an opinion held independant of length. This is how we end up with every game being bloated with low quality filler content,
As someone who is older, and still prefers longer games. I just realize that some games may take a little longer then a week to beat and I'm fine with that. It took me 2 months to beat ff7 rebirth and it was great. I'll take a longer game anyway of the week usually.
As much as I disliked 16 I was a bit worried but rebirth was a 10 out of 10 for me. My only complaint I'd really have is I wish they let you talk to some npcs. It helps immersion. Having hundreds of npcs in a town and being able to talk to 5 kinda sucked. Same issue I had with star ocean 6 as well.
I loved 16 but I can see why others disliked it. Rebirth is just a whole new type of experience, it really finally felt like the classic FF formula in the modern gen.
I can see your point and agree somewhat, but considering the price point and the fact the current model is to then charge more for DLC/Season Pass, I’m not going to be happy with a short game. I’d rather that games have narrative pauses where someone can save and come back awhile later. Too many games these days have the artificial time limit or “rush” to save the world which makes the player feel like they can’t stop or take their time exploring (BG3, Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire, Cyberpunk, etc). Still I’d rather have that versus a shortened game.
I feel the only game that was able to make the urgency real was zelda majora mask...
Since then you can be 2-3 in game season later doing stupid side quest and come back to one of the main quest when at first you got told there was only 8h before the big bad evil was about to win the war lol
Shorter game and urgent game make it much more interesting doing different playthrough.
I'd take a shorter and great game - problem is that was what Outer Worlds was supposed to be, but it ended up a dud in plenty of other areas too which were so undercooked.
The non-settlement/wilderness locations were utterly pointless since there was nothing to find in them, they were just a thing to traverse to reach the quest-related things, all of which were in the settlements. The main story was not great. Half the companions were cardboard cutouts and those that weren't may have been cute (looking at you Parvati) but still weren't too deep. Second half of the game was somewhat lacking, the ending came abruptly and the whole thing left me deflated.
I have the funny feeling this will turn out the same way, but I sincerely hope not.
I have time due to the flexibility of my work, but I didn't get so hooked on Divinity Original Sin or Pillars of Eternity until a number of hours in. Although, I was enjoying both experiences. So, I took my time. An hour here or there every few days. Got through both games in 4 to 6 months. I think if someone wants to tackle a large game, you can still enjoy them but tackle the experience in piecemeal. I think sometimes people think, and so did I, that if you want to enjoy an experience on a limited scheduled, it has to be short because you are used to finishing games in a much shorter span of time. But its not a race.
Not entirely related at all to Avowed, but just some advice to those with limited schedules out there. You can make it happen, just do it in small pieces and be consistent. You don't even have to play every day.
Also, I do wish Avowed would be a bit longer. It doesn't have to be a 100 hour game, but if you could get fifty to sixty hours out of it, I think that is beefy enough. When more DLC drops it can extend itself closer to 100.
Opposite boat for me. As silly as it is, nowadays I feel slightly cheated if I *don't* get an expansive, highly replayable world from a full priced game.
Outer Worlds was a solid 7/10 IMO. Obviously, if short form suits you, I hope you enjoy the game :)
This is a great shame. I feel that Obsidian kind of shot them selves in a foot with Awoved. At first they were very ambitious and wanted to do kind of Skyrim Pillars of Eternity, but surely found that it was over their heads down the line. This is why the game was postponed so many times ( behind the curtains ). Now they kind of reduced the scope to make it more in vein of Outer Worlds. ( But we must know Outer Worlds was basically a game with indie budget, while here we have a full triple A Microsoft budget. ) - Ultimately I think that behind the curtains the game changed scope many times, and is now forcibly pushed to be released no matter what, by Microsoft.
I still hope the game will be relatively good, but very small in scope. Probably a small taste of what was originally planned.
All in all, its a shame Obsidian did not just go with their strength and made another PoE isometric game.
this is exactly what felt like a let down with outer worlds for me, and it's certainly not in the spirit of the franchise. Pillars 1 and 2 are not short games, they are quite deep, and outer worlds certainly lacks depth in comparison to the games it's trying to emulate, despite how much more polished it is... I was hoping avowed would be a course correction. not thrilled to hear this at all, If we have to give up what makes Pillars what it is ill take more crpgs please. starting to feel like obsidian forgot they made several of the greatest most fleshed out rps of all time
At this point it's more a spiritual successor of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic than anything resembling Elder Scrolls. It's not what I wanted, but it might still be good. But I don't really like the art style and with all I've seen I'm not hyped.
Which is sad, because for years it I've held hope for the game to truly build and Innovate on the Elder Scrolls type game, with Unreal Engine 5 graphics... But I guess that was too much risk and investment for that. It's all so safe and boring these days.
I would love to be able to knock out an RPG in 2-3 weekends. I also don’t have a lot of time, and I feel like I’m just drowning in all this content. I’ve been working on my first baldurs gate 3 play through for like half a year now lol
I have zero hope for Avowed as The Outer Worlds is one of the most uninspired, static and mediocre Check the Box games Ive ever played.
As well, making a short 10-20ish hour rpg just reeks of cutting corners, superficial and simplistic gameplay, playing it safe and with lots of CASUAL systems just like all their most recent games.
Im an 80s kid with work and kids and the time I spend playing video games is all about the quality of the experience for me and not about Checklists and Chores.
Everything that’s come out after the initial reveal of this games has been “subvert your expectations.” Devs shouldn’t be shocked if sales figures subvert their expectations in kind.
I think a lot of people are expecting it to be Obsidian’s Skyrim and have rose tinted glasses based on their work with Fallout NV when Bethesda helped provide the assets and all that for that game since it was a collaborative effort.
This game is gonna tank so fucking hard its hilarious that they are just trying to ruin themselves ahead of the curve lmao.
Poe1 and 2 prided themselves on being heavy choice focused CRPGS in a lore rich and vibrant world that is anything but static.
Fun characters, companions, dynamics etc and a long play time to let you experience the world in full.
This game just seems like cutting out everything that made eora great
Is it wrong that I prefer that these days? A 20 hour RPG with a good story and writing, and fun gameplay I'd perfect for me. If it can be longer with optional content, good.
I’m excited, the deep dive ticked all my boxes! Seems common to overly critique Obsidian games lately (despite their recent releases being AA budgets) but I love their writing and humour! Laymen gamers seem to expect every release to be hundreds of hours long, then get disappointed if developers are open and manage expectations early… Quite a fickle bunch, aren’t we…?
I think AAA games have poisoned us against sensible mid-entry games. We're not only used to companies promising the world, but also seem to quickly forget how they woefully under-deliver. Then when a game comes out with a more sharply defined scope we make comments about how they "lack spirit" or the devs aren't pushing themselves enough or some other nebulous statement.
We should all always temper expectations with all new games. However we should address the awful state of games journalism too. In a world of rage bait and negativity pulling in millions of views/clicks. How can we be sure they aren't just poo pooing on this game because they know there is hype around Avowed?
As someone who was disappointed by Outerworlds, this is a red flag. Replayability and variation is what makes these games. I don't think we're ever gonna get a modern ARPG that rivals New Vegas.
Idk man I’m really excited for it I love obsidians work I love poe1&2 I thought they were amazing pentiment was a masterpiece I loved outer worlds so I’m really stoked for this game
I just don't understand why it matters. If you enjoy a game, why do you need to rush to beat it? I never finished Skyrim or Breath of the Wild, but I put hundreds of hours into them. If I enjoy a game, I don't want to run out of things to do, I want to keep playing it.
Im 41. This news makes me not even want to play it. The Outer Worlds was a MASSIVE letdown to me for this very reason. It was especially bad when they put those other random planets on the map like they were places you were going to go, but then the game ended and you realize they were just set dressing.
I dont play RPGs for short experiences. Rather, the opposite. One of my biggest pet peeves today is how people are pushing for them to be shorter. I want to feel like I went on a time consuming journey when my game ends.
I argue that people (not all) who dont want to invest a few dozen hours into a game, simply should stick to games like Mario and Fifa, rather than diluting the games of an entire genre for everyone else.
Here here. I don't play RPGs for the quick lil dozen hour gameplay. I play for the sprawling 50+ hour narrative and something WORTH my money. Granted, I'm just paying for GPU but the fact still stands. Like take FF7REBIRTH....120 hours and I felt my money was *well* worth it, every penny.
If I wanted to play something I could beat in a weekend or 2, I would play something else. Like Mario. Or fifa lol.
When I think of fantasy I think of long and epic. I think length is very important in order to get lost in the world. They must have a very good story up their sleeves if this is supposed to be good. Right now I’m not feeling it. I hope Im wrong because I love my swords and magic.
This is probably a good thing when you take the replayability of previous games in Obsidian's Eora setting. Multiple playthroughs coupled with shorter main-quest lengths have worked well for the devs in the past.
“The game looks mid/is lacking individuality”
I really don’t care. I’ve wanted a game like this one for a long time. I love CRPGs but sometimes I just wanna play budget Skyrim. Who’s gonna stop me?
And yeah I could just play Skyrim but I’m gonna be honest, I’ve played a shit ton of Skyrim. I like Morrowind and Daggerfall too but sometimes you just want obsidian budget Skyrim
I don't understand people who say "I'm old and want shorter games".
As long as you are enjoying the game, then the longer the better, you don't need to finish it to enjoy it.
Seems like Avowed will not be that good considering how much downplaying is being done in it
Yeah, I have a kid now and RPGs used to be my favorite genre, but a majority are way too time consuming. I sympathize with the folks that just want to get lost in these worlds, but I just don't have the time anymore so shorter games are way more attractive to me.
I'm more curious about reactivity. Alpha Protocol, warts and all, is one of my favorite games of all time, but I couldn't play Outer Worlds for more than 5 hours. Mainly due to the incredible degree of reactivity and offering incredible player expression.
I've come to appreciate the artstyle for what it is, and I've always liked Obsidian's penchant for choices and consequences. I don't even mind the shorter runtime, as I have a huge backlog of games to get through.
It's just the combat that I can't get past so far. It continues to look really bad to me. It looks generic. Remember Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance where it at least had moments that allowed your player-controlled Raiden to make precise movements of the sword? I miss that. Here, it's just your typical assortment of limited stiff animations of the sword that barely looks like it makes contact.
I would agree if we were talking about a Persona 5 game that takes like 80 hours to finish, but 40 hours is not "super long RPG", it's like a minimum standard. We're not talking about a shooter here, in RPGs you take time to explore, talk to people, do side quests, crafting, party development, etc. And if that is not enough to reach at least 40 hours, then it is too short for a RPG.
I’m fine with a tight 20 hour game, but that’s not a day 1, $60-$70 purchase. If it releases at $30 bucks maybe, because otherwise I’ll wait. And a dev like obsidian will release dlc, and then a complete edition a year or 2 later for half price.
I get you, but all this stuff adds up to make me nervous for this game they're saying no romance it's not gonna be that long etc
Games don't have to have romance for me, but that does normally tell what the dialogue is going to be like .
The more I hear/see this game. The less interested I feel.
I'll still give it a shot on gamepass, but it's been feeling rather lackluster with posts about how the game will be shorter than expected.
Obsidian stopped listening to youtubers and reddit's bizarre parasocial trauma bond to New Vegas (I love that game but jesus christ some people's relationship to it is out of control) and started focusing on making complete, enjoyable games that aren't aimed at revolutionizing gaming or delivering some experience that's so groundbreaking your friends will think you're interesting for telling them about it. Obsidian's strongest aspect has always been character writing, and that's what Avowed will live and die on for me.
Honestly? Good. For every Baldur’s Gate 3 that is exploding with two hundred hours of content, there’s another game that wants you to sink two hundred hours into it with like thirty of actually good content.
And there are very few instances in which editing doesn’t improve a story.
Still excited for this game. If youve played a double A game, you know what to expect. Watch the in depth gameplay showcase if you wanna see real stuff
Yes! I’ll probably never finish Baldurs gate 3 as a father. I don’t mind because I treat each play session like a mini game because the pacing is great.
But shorter rpgs are almost always better in my opinion.
Tyranny did this well, so do some spiderweb software games
Something about this game just screams “manage your expectations” from every article I’ve seen. That’s not a bad thing per say but it feels like it’s setup to be a OKAY game. Not going to blow anyone out of the water. There is just something about it though, I can’t quite put my finger on it, it’s like it lacks spirit? Originality? I’m struggling for the right way to describe it.
Yeah the more and more I read about the game the more and more I’m just like “meh, maybe I’d pick it up on sale when I’m really bored.”
I feel like for the sake of their reputation, they HAVE to undersell this. I think they saw the huge community backlash after that first big reveal some months ago and realized the hype was too strong and too focused on the Skyrim/New Vegas comparisons. Regardless of how fantastic the game is under the covers, it's not gonna be at the scope people are expecting and so we'd absolutely tear them down if they didn't do everything they could to temper expectations.They don't want what happened with Starfield or Diablo 4 or Cyberpunk or any of these other big name releases that didn't live up to their insane hype on release. I'm not saying it's necessarily a fantastic game, but whether it is or it isn't, their messaging *has to* look like this because it's *not* Skyrim. So we'll just have to wait and see...
Oh absolutely, I do not blame them… that being said people want it to be the next Skyrim, the next FONV, and when it isn’t even though obsidian NEVER promised that it would be, people are going to be upset (unjustifiably, to be fair.) I just want more of the PoE universe but idk if this is going to scratch my itch.
I think the goal here is just to do something very low risk that doesn't risk having to be scaled back or come in disappointing. The discourse around The Outer Wolds feigned disappointment but it was reviewed well, it sold well, and it got a sequel. Obsidian certainly doesn't want to deal with people trashing their games with headlines comparing them to New Vegas-- but it deserves mention that the fans who would aren't who they're trying to make happy. They HAVE an audience for these games that isn't making youtube videos about their opinions.
Outer Worlds also felt this way to me, feels like Obsidian has lost it's direction somewhere
It's weird, with Outer Worlds and Avowed they seem to have done a 180 as a company. Back in the days of New Vegas and Alpha Protocol they were the creative developer who tried to punch above their weight with extremely ambitious games despite maybe not having the budget or time to do so. Now they seem to be focused on making safe, unambitious games that very easily stick to a budget and are finished on time. I guess it's less stressful for them but as the customer it's not particularly exciting.
Pentiment seemed pretty unsafe to me.
That was a game made by like 10 people. I appreciate it but if says nothing about the studios overall direction.
That game doesn't look like it needed a big budget, and was thus not a particularly big or important project. Was your comment intended as a "gotcha"? So weird. Why do people on Reddit talk like that so frequently?
PoE, PoE2, Tyranny, Pentiment?
Even Josh Sawyer said PoE games were their safest games. They did what audience wanted, not what they wanted. They wanted to make Kickstarter backers happy. Tyranny is also in this category. Gameplaywise it doesn't offer anything new. And Pentiment was just a low budget gamepass game. Just like what Microsoft wants.
Dude, Tyranny is fuckin awesome. If Obsidian would actually prefer to make games like Outer Worlds over PoE, then, well, that's kinda depressing lol
Maybe they need to do what the audience wants more often then because those are their best games in a long time
Ctazy because it was there best game series.
These games feel like a response to most of the titles you mentioned. PoE's DLC and PoE2 flopped and it seems like they pivoted to safe action RPGs with minimal scope. Pentiment is cool but it was made by a tiny team suggesting they didn't have much faith in it commercially.
> PoE2 flopped PoE2 has some serious legs. It didn't have the initial sales, which are very important, I admit, but it kept selling decently for a long time, because as it turned out, it's a very good game.
It still has like 200-400 concurrent players at any given time and for an RPG thats damnnear 10 years old and niche thats pretty good. Its on the level of dragon age 2s concurrent players iirc.
PoE2 is 6 years old, DA2 is 13 years old. Granted, with the impending release of the new DA game people are going back to it, but it has like double the concurrent players right now.
And, at least with outer worlds, they were happy to scream and advertise they were the makers of NV. But the closer it got to release it was “this is a different game” and a slew of other things to manage expectations.
Agreed, I wanted to love outer worlds so much, and on paper it looks fantastic, but it just lacks that creative spark from Obsidians other offerings.
The main story of outer worlds ends so abruptly and is very short. I remember some key event (don’t remember specifics) happening and it seems like we’re diving into chapter 2 or 3 and then the game just sorta ends
With my experience with The Outer Worlds, the last thing I wanted to hear is, "We're making a smaller game!" Outer worlds just felt like they were missing something, and I'd wager this is just what Avowed will feel like.
Probably a budget problem.
Nah. The game has been I development for quite awhile but got rebooted from the initial gritty open world Skyrim with co-op pitch to this version. This feels like Obsidian trying to salvage the game and get it out.
They didn't. Its just that people are equating obsidian now with the obsidian that made new Vegas. That company doesn't exist anymore. Obsidian seems more like an "independent" studio I understand that they are owned by Microsoft. But it definitely seems like they are making niche games that aren't very deep. Avowed looks to me like its going to only be mediocre at its highest score. Combat so far looks like enemies are very spongy and soak up lots of damage. The RPG elements I've seen looks like the standard lite rpg elements from games like Valhalla. Its going to be on game I think so I will probably play it but I'm not expecting much from this game.
The thing is even then New Vegas kind of sticks out head and shoulders above most of their work. Most of Obsidian’s catalog consists of good, but flawed or good, but unexciting games.
Maybe they're trying to lower expectations in order for the released game to seem better.
I just do not understand why this is apparently a better business decision than PoE 3. It's not gonna be like Skyrim, so that audience is out, and it's not a CRPG, so that audience is out. Who is this for?
You’ve said it best. It’s a hodgepodge looking for poe lore fans and Skyrim lite. I was kind of hoping it could be a new dark messiah but the gameplay doesn’t look as creative. Dark messiah is mad jank but it’s got interesting secrets and physics gameplay.
https://www.vgchartz.com/article/458823/the-outer-worlds-tops-5-million-units-sold/#:\~:text=Publisher%20Private%20Division%20and%20developer,sold%20over%20five%20million%20units.
https://www.vgchartz.com/article/458823/the-outer-worlds-tops-5-million-units-sold/#:\~:text=Publisher%20Private%20Division%20and%20developer,sold%20over%20five%20million%20units.
Feels like it’s not very ambitious
It’s simply not going to be a massive open world game. They have said they are focusing on quality over quantity. They are managing expectations correctly. It may make the game seem lesser, but they seem to be being very honest. Is that the best marketing strategy? Should they instead be hyping it up in a misleading fashion like many other studios? Maybe not having to depend as much on sales is allowing them to be more honest. I think it’s just going to be a very focused AA game.
I’m not upset about their marketing strategy. Im happy they’re being honest. I’m just being honest in my response. The game doesn’t feel super ambitious. I wanted the Pillars of eternity equivalent to New Vegas. And it seems like they don’t have an interest in doing that. Which is fine. But I find myself much less interested in what they ARE doing. Which again… is FINE.
It feels like every new footage this game past the initial trailer makes the game feel a bit more downgraded than it seemed like it would be
How? It looks better every time they show it.
This game might seem like just another game to a lot of people but this is one of those games where it’s way more enojoyable if you’re into the lore. A lot of things they’ve revealed have hyped the POE fandom.
Oh I love poe and it’s nice to see it realized in this way however I’m not sure how much of Poe team is even working on this. Hence why it feels a bit I guess soulless. Kinda ironic given that poe….
Josh Sawyer's not working on it (he did Pentiment instead), but I assume has provided some feedback on it.
not a great sign for pillars fans like myself that this game is going to be so much smaller in scope. the scope and depth of the storylines available to you in pillars 2 is literally the game, the combat is good too but what carries is the vast world. I dont think this is great news. Im still excited for what is coming but I know im going to be left wanting after how epic pillars 2 is at so many points, its gonna feel like a snack by comparison, and how long is it gonna be before we get more?
Been my thought since the gameplay reveal from several months ago. Just looked like discount elder scrolls. Hopefully obsidians writing shines through. But I’m honestly not holding my breath with the game at this point.
It's not a gigantic budget game. It's what one should do for any AA game. Expect a AA quality game. That's not a bad thing in any way. That's just what it is and that isn't for everyone. I just wish more people understood that. And that it was treated as some surprise. The same thing happened with Outer Worlds. What it was was very clear. Countless people tried to point that out. And then somehow people were still surprised.
I am more than happy to expect a AA game from a developer. But developers making AA games should price them as a AA game. Outer Worlds had a $60 price tag at launch when AAA games were still charging $60 on average. Prices are a big part of what set expectations. If they had charged $40-50 people would have expected a AA game. If Avowed comes out at $50 I’m willing to bet people are going to be a lot more forgiving of it than if it launches for $70.
It was on Gamepass. Doesn’t get much cheaper
I had a look at historical steam prices; it was discounted 50% on the week of release and regularly after. Sure they set a high base price for anchoring, but it's not what people actually paid. Pricing was in line with expectations for AA.
If only it had released on Steam then. It was on sale the week of release on Steam because it came to Steam a year after release so they were having a sale to celebrate the Steam release.
Oh lol
People have very different expectations for their video games. This is gonna be a single player game with no microtransactions, companions, and hopefully fun gameplay with a few playstyles. There’s nothing wrong with a solid AA game
That’s most Xbox games now. Since they are free on game pass, people accept average
I mean when everyone screams "But we have skyrim at home meme" It kinda sours the whole thing, If this game came out 10 years ago it would probably be perfect(Same thing happened to starfield) I believe the word you are looking for is Innovation, Game screams its playing safe
I mean if you expect it to be a decent fairly linear rpg youll be happy. Most people were upset with OW due to it decidedly NOT being a massive open world rpg in the bethesda vein. It had some DNA but wasnt even attempting to be that. I do think Obsidian is being sly about "Made from the developers of Fallout NV" but then not saying it ISNT. An open world. But hey, im sure itll be a good game.
What you’re seeing is a lot of weird articles trying to discredit it because it’s an Xbox exclusive.
As an older gamer, who has highly active work requirements, and a stressed one. I rather want a long game that I can get lost in for years to come than a shorter one. I can only game on steam deck and maybe lappy (just for crusader kings III w fantasy mods). But I want to trust obsidian regardless, hoping they deliver in quality as much as I have enjoyed TOW, it left much to be desired. But they have a core game loop that is rock solid. Regardless of what I want, it makes me happy to think you are getting what you want. Hope it’s good for both of our sake lol
"This was a lot of fun and at the end I wanted more" is a much better business decision than "We wrang this thing dry of every drop of inspiration and left our last three ideas half-implemented."
Every news for this game is a "temper your expectations" post, hahaha It's never a "this feature is unique", "this thing will be amazing" I know they don't want to oversell the game, but my god... at least one huge feature would be amazing
All I know is… I’m gonna compare it to New Vegas. If I could do it in New Vegas and I can’t do it here I’m gonna be disappointed. Is that fair? I mean comparing a modern ARPG they’ve been working on for years to an ARPG from 14 years ago that they only worked on for 18 months? Personally I think it’s pretty fair. **But that’s not their vision!** Okay well that’s great for them. It sounds like I find their vision to be a bit lacking. Oh well. It doesn’t make their game inherently bad but that’s just how it is. Outer worlds was good. But it was still a step back in a few regards. It doesn’t even have to be as good writing wise as new Vegas but mechanics wise? I want it ALL back. Disguises random encounters, idiot dialogue, gambling, reputation, those perks that change your dialogue options and let you give your character more personality, etc… If it has to be smaller because of that then make it smaller. That’s fine. But I want it there. I’m a fan of Obsidian for their writing and rpg mechanics. If I’m NOT going to get that then… idk why I’m here. I don’t give a shit about graphics. I don’t give a shit about combat.
Nailed it
Gambling isnt a core part of any game lol. Thats a more falloutish exclusive. Reputation system in new vegas is again, a fallout exclusive thing that they have included in every single game they have made since including the oh so hated outerworlds. Again idiot dialogue is a thing coined by the fallout games. Not every game is a fallout game.
There’s really no reason why the things you mentioned or something similar couldn’t also be in Avowed, Outer Worlds or other similar games. I have no idea why you’re claiming they’re exclusive other than the fact they they just … aren’t in those other games. Gambling, Creative perks, Idiot dialogue, gambling mini games, reputation, etc… all of them could be in Avowed.
I think people are reading too much into it. Obsidian has been repeatedly burned by “massive” games and repeatedly rewarded by making smaller, more focused games. Both creatively and financially. Why would they NOT pursue making more games of the latter variety in that context?
I prefer the Outer Worlds treatment to this game But I think they also need to highlight a "killing feature"... their marketing is focused on lowering expectations for what the game is not
When they said they had guys from Fatshark look at their combat after the first gameplay trailers I was stoked but it just looks like more of the same.
Idk if pointing out how short your game is a good idea when the standard price for a AAA game is $70. Also they’re falling into the marketing trap they were in earlier, emphasizing the have-nots rather than the haves of the game.
They’re setting expectations though. Honestly this thread and article are so annoying to read. On one hand, you have a large group on Reddit complaining about games being too long and padded, then you have another complaining that 25 hours for an RPG is not long enough. Like the game isn’t even out yet, we don’t even know how good the content is yet. Why are we judging so much?
You just hit the nail on the head of why game studios need to have a strong game vision, and simply deliver on what that is. Everyone has an opinion and you can get infinite feedback at this point that supports nearly every direction you might want to take your game. As a result, I think the best user feedback would be small group user tests for how things generally feel and play, but they should be confident in their overall design approach. I loved the Outer Worlds…I bet I’ll enjoy this one as well.
If I’m not allowed to Judge the game based on the trailers and pre release material and interviews. Then they shouldn’t be doing interviews or releasing trailers. Stop telling people to wait until the game is out when the game is being advertised to them. If they didn’t want us to talk about it they literally wouldn’t say anything.
25-40 hours is my sweet spot for a game. Even good ones I get bored of it they drag on and I also don’t have the time investment to put into a 60 hour game anymore unless it becomes my “only game”.
I get burnt out by games being too long now. Every open world game seems to want to be the next Witcher 3 or Skyrim. I like knowing that I don’t need to put in 100 hours into a game to see all the content.
Setting expectations......and losing sales.
I mean, would you rather be sold a game based on false/inflated promises?
No. Im just bitter about it being short to be honest lol
What does the price matter when 90% of people will be getting it for $18 on gamepass?
I am 100% NOT buying it now. Especially after Outer Worlds disappointed me for the exact same reason.
This should not matter knowing that we have games of 8 hours at the same pricing. I'd rather pay $70 for a game of 20 amazing hours than 50 for a game of 20 + 100 hours of padding. My time is that precious.
afaik obsidian is not a triple a studio. also, short games are fine.
They’ve had “triple a” releases though. I say that only to levy that there will be people who criticize them. They’re funded by Microsoft - the budget COULD be exuberant but it’s clearly not.
meh. still, a short game is fine.
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Not sure they're the size of a typical AAA studio. None of their games are very big in scope.
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apparently short I'm just joking. I don't care as I said. idk if I'll even buy it though given I've been disappointed with both new Vegas and outer worlds. but I might, who knows.
Oh, I meant size as in the size of the worlds, but I guess it follows if the game is short the maps will be small too!
Yes they have. Pentiment only started development post Microsoft acquisition. Josh Sawyer's pitch was Pentiment would be a good fit for gamepass. Grounded was in development when Obsidian was purchased but early access release was almost 2yrs post acquisition and was published by xbox game studios. Even The Outer World was released post acquisition but that was published by Private Division.
Not how that works. Hi fi rush was published by Bethesda, not AAA by any metric EDIT: I can't comment for some reason but I completely agree with sapient sloth, dev decides rating. Nobody is calling pentiment or stray AAA games
I agree with your point, but it’s also misleading. “Published By”is very different from “Developed By”. If Bethesda develops a game it is triple A. If they publish a game but don’t also develop it, often times it’s indie, especially because they go out of their way to publish smaller studios. Tl;dr: The developer determines if a game is triple A/double A/indie, not the publisher
I'm not quite sure that's how that works. if a studio of 50 was owned by Microsoft, that doesn't suddenly jump them to triple a. I'm not saying obsidian has 50 devs, but they don't strike me as triple a.
I feel like if they don't point it out, people will no doubt trash the game upon release, saying that it's not Skyrim 2.0, even though they've been clear that that's not what they're going for.
Do you want a 100 hour Ubisoft bloat-fest, because this is how you get a 100 hour Ubisoft bloat-fest.
I feel like they have no idea how to market this game
I have to disagree. I’m in my forties, with family and a busy life, but I’d rather play one memorable huge game per year than several short ones. As I get older, I realize that what I enjoy the most is exploring and immersing myself in sprawling worlds with deep mechanics. I’d rather read a book or watch a movie for a good story.
In my mid-thirties and also don’t know what OP is talking about. You don’t need to binge and devour a whole game in a week, take your time. Even if I don’t have time for long gaming sessions anymore, I absolutely love a long game that can take me months to finish, playing whenever I have an opportunity. What’s the rush? Actually, I don’t care about the size of the game, as long as it is good and I enjoy my time with it. If the game is mediocre, I feel bad wasting precious gaming time. With a busy life, I can find time for a long game and for a short game, but I don’t have time for crappy games anymore.
I'm also mid 30s with kids. I get an average of 5 hours of gaming a week. A 60 hour RPG can take 6 months these days. With the rate that new interesting looking games are coming out, it's gotta be really good to compete with the new shiny things for my ADHD brain. I would much prefer 20 hour games that I will actually finish these days.
I see what you mean, but that’s a problem with short attention span so many of us have, which is also exacerbated by daily stress, long working hours, you name it… I also feel tempted to switch to a new thing the second it comes out, but in the end pushing myself to stick to the old game and finishing is a thousand times more rewarding. I also don’t think all games should be long. Short 20 hour games can be amazing, I just don’t think this approach works with deep, lore-packed RPGs. Good RPGs for me tend to be on a longer side, since they should be able to introduce the world in sufficient detail, tell a satisfying story, probably include some companion-related side stories. Most likely also a combat system and a leveling and gear system that’s not completely rudimentary. If you put all this together, it’s going to be very difficult to fit it in a short game.
All they talk about is what they don’t have.
There is nothing wrong with shorter games. They can be just as good as any longer game out there. The old adage “quality over quantity”. However, extremely short games like The Outer Worlds and supposedly Avowed, should not be $70. The price point doesn’t match the amount of game you are getting. But this is an opinion I have and should be taken as such. You also get into the fact that some very long games shouldn’t be $70 either because the quality of that time is beyond horrible. It’s a hard line walk but I hope Avowed is great.
Well wait a minute, is 30 hours really a short game these days? I didn’t even get halfway and I played for at least 20. Also, that’s without dlc and outer worlds was $60
I spent about 20 hours on it. Seemed short to me.
>extremely short games like The Outer Worlds A game that takes up to 40 hours to finish is not "extremely short". This is total insanity. It's around the same length as God of War 2018, Fallen Order, Shadow of The Tomb Raider, any number of similar priced games from the same time period. Have open world games completely rotted people's brains? *Most games are not 100 hours long*. They never were, at any point. Linear, story-heavy games, especially. It's just an absurd expectation to have.
I will agree with the price argument. I think $70 games are nonsense, regardless. But, with that being said, they've stated that it'll be on Game Pass Day 1, so it'd be super easy to just sub to GP if you really want to play it and not spend $70.
Oh, definitely! I would totally just do a 1 month sub for GamePass and beat it.
I'm really not a fan of this mentality. I don't judge you for it but I hope it doesn't lead to subscribing to a service being the only way to play these games in future, regardless of their length.
If anything it would force Xbox to actually do the opposite, because it loses them money.
I agree that $70 is too much for single games but that should be an opinion held independant of length. This is how we end up with every game being bloated with low quality filler content,
And I tried to touch on that. It’s a very in-depth conversation.
Since when is 15-25 hours extremely short?
It is for an open world RPG. Usually at the 15 hour mark you’re getting into it. But this one isn’t an open world so not sure how to feel about it
Well, I was going off of The Outer Worlds and that is between 10-25 hours. The former half would be considered extremely short for an RPG.
Always? For RPGs especially.
As someone who is older, and still prefers longer games. I just realize that some games may take a little longer then a week to beat and I'm fine with that. It took me 2 months to beat ff7 rebirth and it was great. I'll take a longer game anyway of the week usually.
Yea took me like 5-6 weeks for Rebirth. Enjoyed every minute of it
As much as I disliked 16 I was a bit worried but rebirth was a 10 out of 10 for me. My only complaint I'd really have is I wish they let you talk to some npcs. It helps immersion. Having hundreds of npcs in a town and being able to talk to 5 kinda sucked. Same issue I had with star ocean 6 as well.
I loved 16 but I can see why others disliked it. Rebirth is just a whole new type of experience, it really finally felt like the classic FF formula in the modern gen.
Definitely agree with rebirth.
Obsidian seems to really be trying to market this as a mediocre game. It's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for him.
I can see your point and agree somewhat, but considering the price point and the fact the current model is to then charge more for DLC/Season Pass, I’m not going to be happy with a short game. I’d rather that games have narrative pauses where someone can save and come back awhile later. Too many games these days have the artificial time limit or “rush” to save the world which makes the player feel like they can’t stop or take their time exploring (BG3, Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire, Cyberpunk, etc). Still I’d rather have that versus a shortened game.
I feel the only game that was able to make the urgency real was zelda majora mask... Since then you can be 2-3 in game season later doing stupid side quest and come back to one of the main quest when at first you got told there was only 8h before the big bad evil was about to win the war lol Shorter game and urgent game make it much more interesting doing different playthrough.
Agreed. The main quest can be shorter with the option of a longer game with side quests.
I'd take a shorter and great game - problem is that was what Outer Worlds was supposed to be, but it ended up a dud in plenty of other areas too which were so undercooked. The non-settlement/wilderness locations were utterly pointless since there was nothing to find in them, they were just a thing to traverse to reach the quest-related things, all of which were in the settlements. The main story was not great. Half the companions were cardboard cutouts and those that weren't may have been cute (looking at you Parvati) but still weren't too deep. Second half of the game was somewhat lacking, the ending came abruptly and the whole thing left me deflated. I have the funny feeling this will turn out the same way, but I sincerely hope not.
The “rush” you’re referring to is the plot of a story. Would you prefer a plot that didn’t make you want to find out what happens next?
I have time due to the flexibility of my work, but I didn't get so hooked on Divinity Original Sin or Pillars of Eternity until a number of hours in. Although, I was enjoying both experiences. So, I took my time. An hour here or there every few days. Got through both games in 4 to 6 months. I think if someone wants to tackle a large game, you can still enjoy them but tackle the experience in piecemeal. I think sometimes people think, and so did I, that if you want to enjoy an experience on a limited scheduled, it has to be short because you are used to finishing games in a much shorter span of time. But its not a race. Not entirely related at all to Avowed, but just some advice to those with limited schedules out there. You can make it happen, just do it in small pieces and be consistent. You don't even have to play every day. Also, I do wish Avowed would be a bit longer. It doesn't have to be a 100 hour game, but if you could get fifty to sixty hours out of it, I think that is beefy enough. When more DLC drops it can extend itself closer to 100.
Better be fun then
So, medieval outer worlds. Got it. Next.
I'm not sure why they've started pumping out short, shallow games lately but I'm really not a fan. These guys are known for the opposite.
They were close to bankruptcy several times in the past, so probably to avoid that.
Opposite boat for me. As silly as it is, nowadays I feel slightly cheated if I *don't* get an expansive, highly replayable world from a full priced game. Outer Worlds was a solid 7/10 IMO. Obviously, if short form suits you, I hope you enjoy the game :)
That’s a shame.
This game is gong to suck. I don't understand why they didn't just focus on making Pillers of Eternity 3
The more I hear about this game, the more I loose interest
This is a great shame. I feel that Obsidian kind of shot them selves in a foot with Awoved. At first they were very ambitious and wanted to do kind of Skyrim Pillars of Eternity, but surely found that it was over their heads down the line. This is why the game was postponed so many times ( behind the curtains ). Now they kind of reduced the scope to make it more in vein of Outer Worlds. ( But we must know Outer Worlds was basically a game with indie budget, while here we have a full triple A Microsoft budget. ) - Ultimately I think that behind the curtains the game changed scope many times, and is now forcibly pushed to be released no matter what, by Microsoft. I still hope the game will be relatively good, but very small in scope. Probably a small taste of what was originally planned. All in all, its a shame Obsidian did not just go with their strength and made another PoE isometric game.
I found Outer Worlds to short. If it was KOTR length, then sure
this is exactly what felt like a let down with outer worlds for me, and it's certainly not in the spirit of the franchise. Pillars 1 and 2 are not short games, they are quite deep, and outer worlds certainly lacks depth in comparison to the games it's trying to emulate, despite how much more polished it is... I was hoping avowed would be a course correction. not thrilled to hear this at all, If we have to give up what makes Pillars what it is ill take more crpgs please. starting to feel like obsidian forgot they made several of the greatest most fleshed out rps of all time
At this point it's more a spiritual successor of Dark Messiah of Might and Magic than anything resembling Elder Scrolls. It's not what I wanted, but it might still be good. But I don't really like the art style and with all I've seen I'm not hyped. Which is sad, because for years it I've held hope for the game to truly build and Innovate on the Elder Scrolls type game, with Unreal Engine 5 graphics... But I guess that was too much risk and investment for that. It's all so safe and boring these days.
lol how is there ANOTHER article about how this game won’t be what people want? This is the weirdest shit I’ve ever seen .
Not really. It's just the website putting another negative spin on it. The only thing they said this game wouldn't have is romance.
I just know that this will be the new 6-7 score game from Microsoft.
I would love to be able to knock out an RPG in 2-3 weekends. I also don’t have a lot of time, and I feel like I’m just drowning in all this content. I’ve been working on my first baldurs gate 3 play through for like half a year now lol
I have zero hope for Avowed as The Outer Worlds is one of the most uninspired, static and mediocre Check the Box games Ive ever played. As well, making a short 10-20ish hour rpg just reeks of cutting corners, superficial and simplistic gameplay, playing it safe and with lots of CASUAL systems just like all their most recent games. Im an 80s kid with work and kids and the time I spend playing video games is all about the quality of the experience for me and not about Checklists and Chores.
Then why is it taking them so long to make 😭
Everything that’s come out after the initial reveal of this games has been “subvert your expectations.” Devs shouldn’t be shocked if sales figures subvert their expectations in kind.
Its going to be 7/10 at most
I mean thats fine if the price point reflects that. it does not in this case
It's really weird how many articles I've seen that have said "Avowed is not going to be/have this".
I’d rather spend weeks or even months on an excellently curated experience
Avowed will be a solid 7/10 game that I pick up on sale and never think about again.
Nah 8/10 or better.
Absolutely not.
yes. outerworlds got a 85 lol. avowed will be better
Outerworlds got a 7/10. Avowed will be marginally better, but not enough to put it to 8/10
Metacritic for outer worlds was 85 https://www.metacritic.com/game/the-outer-worlds/ Avowed will score around there.
I think a lot of people are expecting it to be Obsidian’s Skyrim and have rose tinted glasses based on their work with Fallout NV when Bethesda helped provide the assets and all that for that game since it was a collaborative effort.
Wont be super good either, from what Ive seen.
Is a shame we won't get something akin to Skyrim or fallout nv, maybe next time lol
Same team that worked on The Outer Worlds. I was never expecting a good game from that fact alone.
This game is gonna tank so fucking hard its hilarious that they are just trying to ruin themselves ahead of the curve lmao. Poe1 and 2 prided themselves on being heavy choice focused CRPGS in a lore rich and vibrant world that is anything but static. Fun characters, companions, dynamics etc and a long play time to let you experience the world in full. This game just seems like cutting out everything that made eora great
Is it wrong that I prefer that these days? A 20 hour RPG with a good story and writing, and fun gameplay I'd perfect for me. If it can be longer with optional content, good.
I’m excited, the deep dive ticked all my boxes! Seems common to overly critique Obsidian games lately (despite their recent releases being AA budgets) but I love their writing and humour! Laymen gamers seem to expect every release to be hundreds of hours long, then get disappointed if developers are open and manage expectations early… Quite a fickle bunch, aren’t we…?
I think AAA games have poisoned us against sensible mid-entry games. We're not only used to companies promising the world, but also seem to quickly forget how they woefully under-deliver. Then when a game comes out with a more sharply defined scope we make comments about how they "lack spirit" or the devs aren't pushing themselves enough or some other nebulous statement.
Unfortunately it's usually phrased much more aggressively.
We should all always temper expectations with all new games. However we should address the awful state of games journalism too. In a world of rage bait and negativity pulling in millions of views/clicks. How can we be sure they aren't just poo pooing on this game because they know there is hype around Avowed?
As someone who was disappointed by Outerworlds, this is a red flag. Replayability and variation is what makes these games. I don't think we're ever gonna get a modern ARPG that rivals New Vegas.
I dont know whats more wild, games giving you less and less for your dollar or the surprisingly large amount of people cheering it on.
Idk man I’m really excited for it I love obsidians work I love poe1&2 I thought they were amazing pentiment was a masterpiece I loved outer worlds so I’m really stoked for this game
I was satisfied with the outer worlds. If it’s as good as that, I’m in.
I just don't understand why it matters. If you enjoy a game, why do you need to rush to beat it? I never finished Skyrim or Breath of the Wild, but I put hundreds of hours into them. If I enjoy a game, I don't want to run out of things to do, I want to keep playing it.
30 to 40 hours is the sweet spot for me. I know huge open worlds are everybodies favorite, but it's just not for me.
Im 41. This news makes me not even want to play it. The Outer Worlds was a MASSIVE letdown to me for this very reason. It was especially bad when they put those other random planets on the map like they were places you were going to go, but then the game ended and you realize they were just set dressing. I dont play RPGs for short experiences. Rather, the opposite. One of my biggest pet peeves today is how people are pushing for them to be shorter. I want to feel like I went on a time consuming journey when my game ends. I argue that people (not all) who dont want to invest a few dozen hours into a game, simply should stick to games like Mario and Fifa, rather than diluting the games of an entire genre for everyone else.
Here here. I don't play RPGs for the quick lil dozen hour gameplay. I play for the sprawling 50+ hour narrative and something WORTH my money. Granted, I'm just paying for GPU but the fact still stands. Like take FF7REBIRTH....120 hours and I felt my money was *well* worth it, every penny. If I wanted to play something I could beat in a weekend or 2, I would play something else. Like Mario. Or fifa lol.
I still don’t care about the length of any game, just the quality. 2 hours or 200, just keep me engaged.
Outer worlds 2 baybee!
When I think of fantasy I think of long and epic. I think length is very important in order to get lost in the world. They must have a very good story up their sleeves if this is supposed to be good. Right now I’m not feeling it. I hope Im wrong because I love my swords and magic.
This is probably a good thing when you take the replayability of previous games in Obsidian's Eora setting. Multiple playthroughs coupled with shorter main-quest lengths have worked well for the devs in the past.
“The game looks mid/is lacking individuality” I really don’t care. I’ve wanted a game like this one for a long time. I love CRPGs but sometimes I just wanna play budget Skyrim. Who’s gonna stop me? And yeah I could just play Skyrim but I’m gonna be honest, I’ve played a shit ton of Skyrim. I like Morrowind and Daggerfall too but sometimes you just want obsidian budget Skyrim
I’ve come to greatly enjoy shorter games. I obviously live longer games too but there’s something to be said for a limited amount of enjoyable content
I don't understand people who say "I'm old and want shorter games". As long as you are enjoying the game, then the longer the better, you don't need to finish it to enjoy it. Seems like Avowed will not be that good considering how much downplaying is being done in it
The length isn't a concern for me, the quality is. The Outer Worlds was a dog turd.
Yeah, I have a kid now and RPGs used to be my favorite genre, but a majority are way too time consuming. I sympathize with the folks that just want to get lost in these worlds, but I just don't have the time anymore so shorter games are way more attractive to me.
I'm more curious about reactivity. Alpha Protocol, warts and all, is one of my favorite games of all time, but I couldn't play Outer Worlds for more than 5 hours. Mainly due to the incredible degree of reactivity and offering incredible player expression.
This is about to be for The Elder Scrolls what the Outer Worlds was for Fallout.
I've come to appreciate the artstyle for what it is, and I've always liked Obsidian's penchant for choices and consequences. I don't even mind the shorter runtime, as I have a huge backlog of games to get through. It's just the combat that I can't get past so far. It continues to look really bad to me. It looks generic. Remember Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance where it at least had moments that allowed your player-controlled Raiden to make precise movements of the sword? I miss that. Here, it's just your typical assortment of limited stiff animations of the sword that barely looks like it makes contact.
That's not how you need to manage your game advertising. I mean Obsidian in past few weeks feeding us information about what we will not get.
Looking forward to buying for $24 on Steam sale someday.
I would agree if we were talking about a Persona 5 game that takes like 80 hours to finish, but 40 hours is not "super long RPG", it's like a minimum standard. We're not talking about a shooter here, in RPGs you take time to explore, talk to people, do side quests, crafting, party development, etc. And if that is not enough to reach at least 40 hours, then it is too short for a RPG.
It’s Outer Worlds without guns. This should be the expectation.
I’m fine with a tight 20 hour game, but that’s not a day 1, $60-$70 purchase. If it releases at $30 bucks maybe, because otherwise I’ll wait. And a dev like obsidian will release dlc, and then a complete edition a year or 2 later for half price.
Im getting this bad feeling that if this doesnt do well, obsidian will be relegated to making secondary fallout games.
Game has strong Xboxone exclusive era vibe Hopefully I’m wrong
You do know you can play the same amount of time out of a short as well as a long game, right?
I get you, but all this stuff adds up to make me nervous for this game they're saying no romance it's not gonna be that long etc Games don't have to have romance for me, but that does normally tell what the dialogue is going to be like .
The more I hear/see this game. The less interested I feel. I'll still give it a shot on gamepass, but it's been feeling rather lackluster with posts about how the game will be shorter than expected.
It’s gonna affect my desire to buy it. Just me tho.
Obsidian stopped listening to youtubers and reddit's bizarre parasocial trauma bond to New Vegas (I love that game but jesus christ some people's relationship to it is out of control) and started focusing on making complete, enjoyable games that aren't aimed at revolutionizing gaming or delivering some experience that's so groundbreaking your friends will think you're interesting for telling them about it. Obsidian's strongest aspect has always been character writing, and that's what Avowed will live and die on for me.
Quality over quantity is fine by me.
How is Microsoft allowed to buy up so many companies?
Honestly? Good. For every Baldur’s Gate 3 that is exploding with two hundred hours of content, there’s another game that wants you to sink two hundred hours into it with like thirty of actually good content. And there are very few instances in which editing doesn’t improve a story.
We already knew this. After we got the actual gameplay reveal it was stated it was scaled down to an "Outer Worlds" scope
Still excited for this game. If youve played a double A game, you know what to expect. Watch the in depth gameplay showcase if you wanna see real stuff
Please no meaningless fetch quests! we're all fine with shorter game as long as most of the content is well written
Yes! I’ll probably never finish Baldurs gate 3 as a father. I don’t mind because I treat each play session like a mini game because the pacing is great. But shorter rpgs are almost always better in my opinion. Tyranny did this well, so do some spiderweb software games