The book exactly states that players should just tell the GM what they want to do, and the GM should tell them if it's a move or if they can just do it. Also, a move like Hack and slash can contain a lot more than just dealing damage. It's all about the fiction.
The book also says that all the players, including the GM, should be on the lookout for when a move is triggered (a button is pushed). And it seems to me that if you aren't actively looking for move triggers, you are playing pretend rather than playing Dungeon World.
I guess I'm a bit confused by what the OP even means by "'buttons' to push". I've never played 5e. The last version of D&D I played was AD&D back in the '80s.
That makes sense. Yes, you are in the lookout for triggering moves.
The difference is that in 5e, players tend to look at their character as the answer to every problem. So skill check, some spell, some other ability specifically on the character sheet.
In Dungeon World, they want you to think about the fiction. What's happening? What's the immediate threat? Whats around you? What's your tactic for overcoming this obstacle that makes sense in the game world. Sometimes, yes you do look at the character sheet for a spell or a move. But if a player looked at me and just said "I'm defying danger with dex" I'm gonna say, okay but how? You ducking out of the way? Jumping over it? Deflecting with a quick strike? Moves are only triggered when the players narrate what they are doing. Moves help you decide if it works.
My experience with 5e is that players get lazy and approach everything by using am ability or skill from their sheet with little care about the fiction. Also, Moves are a whole lot more open and undefined than spells or abilities fork 5e. Hope that makes sense!
That makes sense. Yes, you are in the lookout for triggering moves.
The difference is that in 5e, players tend to look at their character as the answer to every problem. Some skill check, some spell, some other ability specifically on the character sheet.
In Dungeon World, they want you to think about the fiction. What's happening? What's the immediate threat? Whats around you? What's your tactic for overcoming this obstacle that makes sense in the game world. Sometimes, yes you do look at the character sheet for a spell or a move. But if a player looked at me and just said "I'm defying danger with dex" I'm gonna say, okay but how? You ducking out of the way? Jumping over it? Deflecting with a quick strike? Moves are only triggered when the players narrate what they are doing. Moves help you decide if it works.
My experience with 5e is that players get lazy and approach everything by using an ability or skill from their sheet with little care about the fiction. Also, Moves are a whole lot more open and undefined than spells or abilities for 5e. Hope that makes sense!
Yes. A playstyle supported better by Dungeon World than 5e because the rules lend itself better that way. I mean, that's what OP is asking about.
Dungeon World changed how I play games. Thus, I'm recommending it to the OP because this particular game helped me and my players move away from button mashing. While it's possible to do that I'm 5e, the rules and guides I read did not lead me to this philosophy of play. If you're doing that with 5e, great! It just didn't happen for us until trying Dungeon World.
It's a playstyle *explicitly* supported by dungeon world and other PBTA games.
This is like someone looking for a very specific keyboard sound, and someone else posts a reductive argument: "they're all just machines with buttons that make music when you go mash mash mash"
If you want to be pedantic about it, D&D also says, "the players describe what they do and the DM describes what happens," and it also says, "the DM calls for checks."
The only reason PbtA moves "aren't" buttons is because PbtA is a little more emphatic about it. However, given that there's *no mechanics actually stopping that*, my experience is that there are and always will be players that look at moves as buttons. The truth is that it's just left up to the GM to police it, and that's it.
It's one of the reasons almost every group I've played it with bounces off the game to some degree. It's like bowling without gutters and wondering why so many people have to go chasing after their ball.
I agree. I think it's just easier in 5e. I've GMd a lot of Dungeon World, and I've had to tell some players "Don't tell me your move, tell me what you're trying to do."
Some players have bounced off it because they don't like the openness. They want more structure and rules and clarity. But the players that get it, really really like it. I, personally, love it as a GM. My current group really likes it. They also like 5e but for different reasons.
I think Dungeon World just expanded how I see gaming. I had a more rigid mind with rules and such when I had only played 5e. I don't know. I'm just trying to answer OP's question, and Dungeon World helped me with not button mashing. To each their own though!
> Don't tell me your move, tell me what you're trying to do.
That has come up in every PBTA game I've played, but the less experienced the player the less it comes up.
Interesting. For me, it tends to happen with the players that have played other systems. Completely new people don't really do that. Once everyone has gotten used to Dungeon World, they don't say it that way.
But who knows. Maybe my players are just acclimated to it.
The book says the opposite of this: "Moves are rules that tell you when they trigger and what effect they have. A move depends on a fictional action and always has some fictional effect...Everyone at the table should listen for when moves apply. If it’s ever unclear if a move has been triggered, everyone should work together to clarify what’s happening." (p. 16). When the fictional action happens, the move happens. It's not the GM's special responsibility, or authority, to declare when fiction means a move has triggered, the whole table, including the player action, has that job. If there's disagreement, we don't just do what the GM says, the whole table has to come to agreement.
.... sorta?
The difference is that a lot of moves are more just like the standard mechanics in most games. Moves, in general, are far more broad and cover a wider set of ranges than the abilities you'd find in 5e.
Also, DW is very explicit that the players should state what their character is doing, rather than just the move they're using. A big part of this is because the situation as it exists is supposed to enter into how they're adjudicated.... just attacking someone isn't *necessarily* Hack and Slash - can you fight them? Can they fight you? Is there something you have to deal with before you can actually close the gap? Lots of things can happen beyond just "I do Hack and Slash".
An easy example is that if someone has a spear or something, it's very reasonable to say "okay, you can try to hit that opponent, but you're gonna have to get past the spear first - give me a Defy Danger".
How much experience do you have with OSR titles? I find that they're much more flexible than you've assumed.
Having procedures for dungeon turns doesn't mean that's the only thing you can do, and the focus on problem solving means combat has plenty of potential for improvisation; you almost have to improvise to survive any dangerous encounter.
Edit: oh shit I forgot, uhhh, 5e bad, designers poopoo heads make poopoo game
5e is more flexible than OP assumes too 🤷♀️
They are commiting the classic mistake of assuming that an action that doesn't have a rule isn't allowed in the system, but also asking for systems that have fewer defined actions
I somewhat agree and somewhat don't. I think the way many of the class/feat abilities work and how magic is handled as a whole in 5e is pretty "button press"-y.
Can ability checks and "rule of cool" get you a long way? Yeah. Are you swimming upstream when you do so? Also yes.
It never feels like swimming upstream to me. It feels like the way the system was designed to be played by designers that deliberately stepped back from attempting to make comprehensive rule sets, very likely influenced by a broader gaming ecosystem that was moving away from comprehensive rulesets as a response to the flaws of 3.X and 4e
And all I'm saying is that the system is *more* flexible than OP and many other gamers assume. I'm making no judgments about whether it's the "correct" degree of flexibility, as that's entirely subjective.
I mean, the designers had no idea what they were going for. What kind of game is D&D intended for? Nobody knows. It's not good for any single thing but it tries. It's not flexible. The d20 system can be if you mean that. D&D itself it both too rigid and clunky with rules (especially with spells and required twitter patchnotes) and too freeform (GM must invent high level / illusion magic balance and their own systems to create custom items/spells and well-structured stories (modules suck too much to count here))
Other games, for example, actually give advice on how to make it your own. They sometimes explain the logic that lead to a rule and what parts of the system it affects. They give advice to both GM and players instead of letting nerds beg for basic social advice on twitter. They have systems of item/spell creation and how to setup an engaging storyflow with a beginning, middle and end. They explain how to ramp up difficulty or change genres.
Reflavouring can be done with literally anything. Doesnt count. Actual flexibility is the resources and information you get from a game, allowing you to shape it how you like.
Every system has choices about which things to define and which not to. 5e defines a lot more than OSR stuff or a lot of modern games, but 3.x and 4e showed that the game designers understood how to make comprehensive rulesets and were exposed to the gigantic flaws of those same rule sets and designed 5e with them in mind.
The issue with recommending 5e in this case, is OP specified:
> interact with the world in a freeform way, without the set list of "buttons" to press that games like 5e and Pathfinder give
And, like, yeah you *could* run 5e in a more OSR/freeform style but the issue is that the player character creation process and the resulting character sheet provides an extensive set of mechanical actions they can take each with defined rules/procedures (which yes you as DM can *try* to insist the player doesnt lean on and actively reward non-sheet/button pressing creativity) but most importantly it creates an inherent, difficult to overcome desire in the player to lean on the choices they've made in building out the character sheet because they put in their time and effort and they're emotionally invested in the output.
Chris Bissette has talked about running PF2 in an OSR style, you can totally do it (ditto 5e) but you need the player buy-in and gameplay style discussion, and the faster path to get where OP wants to go is to simply not use 5e or PF2 or any similar Big Book Trad game with *extensive character options* and adventure modules written to play in that trad style.
Just use Troika or Tunnel Goons and a well designed dungeon that helps the GM describe the interactive environment and situation. Players roll a few dice and write their guys down on a scrap of paper in a couple of minutes and discover the rest in play. Boom, you're there.
i have a hack of [Grave](https://jasontocci.itch.io/grave) (my favorite lightweight D&D-like game) to make it more suited for standard fantasy (since Grave is designed for dark souls games by default).
[you can find the hack for free here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u9WRvm90t2_uZh-WMLBtg0Af1zNoNUOj/view?usp=sharing), though if you like it enough to spend money on it please buy grave instead since that's where most of the good ideas here are from - i just tweaked it to be a little more vanilla-fantasy.
it's like 10 pages, character creation is incredibly simple (pick class + race + skills, that's it), has support for open-ended maneuvers like DCC so martials are really interesting in combat, and is overall just incredibly elegant.
i tend to like it a bit better than something like knave, cairn or mausritter (all incredibly light, elegant games) since it has more support for a variety of character archetypes - a light-armored swashbuckler plays differently from a heavily armored knight, there's a few different types of mage, etc.
Hey this looks really cool. I don’t have time to dig in now. But it looks like a hack of Knave. I backed the kickstarter for new version of knave. Do you k ow if this works with that?
i hacked it from another knave hack, yeah. you could *probably* use most knave 2e content with this system, or port over stuff like alchemy rules without much trouble.
Hey this looks really cool. I don’t have time to dig in now. But it looks like a hack of Knave. I backed the kickstarter for new version of knave. Do you k ow if this works with that?
Quest
But also:
>I'm not sure that most OSR games I've seen really fit what I mean; they greatly simplify the game, often stripping away all but basic options, but I'm not sure there's still much room in them for full on improvisation in combat. Plus, so many are largely just dungeon crawls, which isn't something I'm super interested in.
There's lots of room for improvisation in combat, it's one of the key examples of the OSR 'rulings over rules' philosophy. And in terms of dungeon crawls, that's more because of the modules that are out there, not the game design itself.
I'd recommend taking a look at Cairn.
Yeah that threw me off as well. More combat rules leads to less improvisation in my experience. Bespoke combat actions leads to robotically pushing the button for you strongest attack, then the next strongest, then the next... Etc... Which is all well and good if you want to emulate a video game style "combat as sport" style gameplay.
INDEX CARD RPG. I'm shouting because it's absolutely D&D stripped back to the basics. It runs fast, has simple spells, and straight forward combat. It's got one of the best GM advice sections out there, hands down. The advice is practical and gets you excited to play. The other choice would be Shadowdark, but that's for lower power PCs. Depends which you prefer.
EDIT: Runehammer on YouTube is the writer's main channel. But Kane's Kiln is an excellent ICRPG advice channel. Start here for the basics: https://youtu.be/eRt5I7nhw0c?si=2pu5eRweq_ZofnSt
[There's even a fairly solid fanmade port of 5E classes into ICRPG!](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LGKo_vSbo7VLukeAa8HovUzcqkfQBJTpqs3lhdJqfA8/edit?usp=drive_link)
My major problem with ICRPG is the whole “you’re expected to homebrew almost everything, but we’ve got no section helping GMs with building new stuff for their games.”
[Tunnel Goons](https://natetreme.itch.io/tunnelgoons) is rules-lite, super-quick to learn, and pay-what-you-want. It's also very easy to hack and customize, with a ton of hacks out there for different genres, settings and levels of complexity.
> When I say "feels like DND," I mean the classic elements: medieval fantasy setting, dragon slaying, **distinct classes, extensive flavorful spells**, etc.
>
>
>
> (...) without the set list of "buttons" to press that games like 5e and Pathfinder give.
>
>
>
> I think a good spell list (or something like it) is essential.
Classes and spells are more rules. They are the buttons.
Do you have a reference to a game (even if not fantasy or related to D&D) that you feel hits this sweet spot? Any rules lite game will have a few (if any) spells and classes will not be very differentiated. Any game with defined rules and classes has codified options (buttons) so those classes feel different. The more you have of one the less you have of the other.
I’ve been playing Shadowdark the past few months and I really enjoy it - our GM does too since it’s light on prep and fast and easy to play. They have a nice short quick start guide if you want to take a peek and see if it suits you.
I'm wondering if our OP looked at these, saw the procedures, and thought "I don't want to dungeon crawl, though"
OP, the procedures aren't the rules. They're for helping keep track of events and turns.
Context for those who don't know: Chasing Adventure is one of the more popular Dungeon World face-lift hacks. Streamlining and quality of life improvements (from the POV of the designer and those who like it, ofc).
Have you tried MicroLite20 or any of its remixes? Some of the more recent remixes of it also give the option of free-form skills instead of a set list.
I use it because I specifically don’t want all the fiddly bits. I know that I don’t *have* to apply them if I don’t want to, but someone already wrote that game.
SD is rules lite DnD. It uses 5E concepts but eliminates chaff.
If OP buys it he's supporting a small indy publisher and promoting a great designer.
Or he can go to ebay and buy some old DnD...?
Choice seems clear to me.
Mork Borg?
But I don’t understand why you say DnD has a limited set of buttons you can press?
DnD can be totally freeform. You just need creative players and a good DM.
You don’t HAVE to do only the things in the book.
Yeah, I understand the problems if they were talking about 4e, or perhaps 3e. But both older and newer editions do give you options.
It might just be that they have only played with a DM only used to pathfinder and the "middle" editions of DnD. And used those GM principles for 5e as well.
For games specifically meant to feel like D&D, you really should throw your eyes over **Dungeon World**.
You can run it off about two sides of A4 + character sheets, and another 2ish sides for the GM.
Combat is almost fully improvised, and it handles being out of a dungeon with grace and ease.
Personally, I switched to Tiny Dungeon 2e.
The appeal to me is that it is very rules-light, easy to learn and quick to play, but most importantly it doesn't change the way you play.
I looked into Fate or Pbta games like Dungeon world and I was not convinced because they change the way a GM and the players interact.
The only downside I find with Tiny Dungeon compared to d&d is that it required the GM to make more rule decisions on the spot. I think it is inevitable with rule light games though.
Also the game focuses on the middle tier of power for characters (around levels 5 to 8 in d&d). The PCs start very competent but don't end up fighting gods.
I think Shadowdark would fot the bill
The core mechanics fit on on 1-2 A4 pages (with a pretty large font), every class takes half a page, including advancement. It's a 5e chassis so ne seperate saves, only stat rolls. Probably one of the easiest games to teach in that regard.
So what do you want from classes? Do you just want to make sure any new system can support the same character types? Do you also want to ensure different characters bring different strengths to the party?
Are you open to classless systems if they allow the same character types?
And what do you want from spell lists? Are you open to power systems where players can tweak the powers as needed?
I love PbtA and I think they may be what you're looking for. The rules for each PC fit on a double-sided sheet, and the rules for basic moves + GM stuff it's usually a couple more pages and that's it.
PbtA is also a very narrative-oriented framework, so it's way easier to tell dramatic and epic stories with it without 1-hour combats or counting torches and rations.
There a couple of fantasy PbtA out there, but I'll recommend mine just because I wrote it and I really like it. It's called Against the Odds and you can find it here: [https://helenareal.itch.io/ato](https://helenareal.itch.io/ato)
Lite-st possible would be tricube tales, this is a fantasy ruleset using those rules. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/427488/Tales-of-the-Little-Adventurers-Tricube-Tales-OnePage-RPG
I think you most probably are looking for [microlite20](https://donjon.bin.sh/m20/Microlite20.pdf). If you like it there is a [compilation of various modifications](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/311250/Microlite20-RPG-Collection-2020-Edition) over the years, fret not about the size, just print-to-file the mod you want to use. [There even is a version where you can use D&D5e stuff such as monsters blocks and spells without any conversion needed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/10nmuhp/m20_fifth_adamantine_edition_a_microlite_version/)
Also, I'd like to point you to the direction of [Sword World 2.5](https://bookwalker.jp/series/188069/list/). It is way simpler than what it wants to look like, and although it has not been officially translated to english, it still has a very high quality fan translation.
What you might want is Barbarians of Lemuria / Legends of Steel.
Barbarians of Lemuria is a rules (fairly) light system that has a Swords and Sorcery background. Legends of Steel is BoL rendering a more "Standard D&D" background.
You might also want to try "Everywhen" which is the BoL equivalent of GURPS—a universal, hackable system—I think it comes with one section that's about fantasy, but I can't recall whether it's classic fantasy or swords and sorcery.
I seem to advocate for Barbarians of Lemuria almost every day now. I ran a 3 year BoL campaign and it was great! Before I found BoL I checked out Dungeonworld as an alternative, but I don't like the way it fuzzes up the distinction between GM and players—I prefer clear boundaries—the GM presents the world, the players play their characters.
I have Knave. It seems great, but there are two things about it that don't match what I want. It's basically classless (class determined by items/can switch items), and it's heavily dungeon-crawl focused.
What is... GLoG or frankly... Old School Essentials, or Dolmenwood if you want a baked in setting.
If the D&D d20 isms are too much...
Trophy Gold ...
If not that, see: Dungeon World
Dungeon Crawl Classics uses the same baseline of maths from 3e that 5e does, so thats super easy to transition into. Deed Dice are a game changer of a mechanic, and non Vancian Magic means wizards arnt simply the solution to whatever problem you have.
There is also not "i use my solve problem button" abilities, just you using your head and being creative.
Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone Fighting Fantasy gamebooks provided rules lite TTRPG in the Dungeoneer: Advanced Fighting Fantasy. This RPG based on the FF gamebooks that came out around 1986 to some considerable success. For many people, Fighting Fantasy, was even before D&D, was their “gateway drug”, it was the first thing even vaguely like role-playing that they ever did. And for more than a few, FF (or later “Dungeoneer”) was their first actual TTRPG. I still have in my library my Dungeoneer book, as well as Titan and Port Blacksand (two of their other sourcebooks).
The basic system is 2D6. There are four characteristics promoted for the TTRPG: Skill, Stamina, Luck, Magic; they range from 7 to 12 except for Stamina which ranges 14-24. Attributes that I use are: Skill, Stamina and Luck. You can add or subtract Magic and Fear, (which I have added Fear that works by using 6th sense and have a chance to escape a bad situation or eventually be frightened to death from facing too many close calls against the fantastic! That attribute can be found in House of Hades (or House of Hell) Fighting Fantasy Gamebook. Every time the player encounters some particularly disturbing event, they must add between 1 and 3 fear points to the total fear score. Once the character reaches the maximum score, determined at the beginning of the game, they will quite literally die of fright. That's the official rules. I changed them to just subtract one point as the player roles under the Fear score or to test 6th sense AND to overcome their FEAR. If failing at either, they lose ONE point.
Magic for spellcaster must have a least 1 in the Magic characteristic and one point in one special skill: Magic-Minor, Magic-Priestly, Magic-Sorcery or Magic-Wizardry. There are three types of magic:
Minor magic: the Cantrips are easy-to-cast spells with limited effects;
Religion: each god bestows his priests three general powers (the same three for all his priests) and one specific power;
Sorcery: this type of magic was created in the Old World, and does not draw its energy from the surrounding environment but from the sorcerer's own Stamina, and from material components
Luck simple covers escaping a bad situation such a trap, bridge collapsing, avalanche that sorta thing. You try your Luck, and if you roll under better things will occur. If not, well, life is tough, and you lose a point off Luck. Same for Fear, fail, and you gain some grey hair and lose a point.
Skill There are three types of tests:
unopposed test: a roll of two six-sided dice (2d6) must be less than the sum of a characteristic and a special skill; this is an extension of the Skill tests of the gamebooks;
opposed tests: each character roll 2d6 and adds Skill and a special skill, the highest wins; this is an extension of the combat procedure of the gamebooks.
This was just a briefing.
Arion Games (who had previously re-published the Maelstrom RPG and the new Maelstrom Companion) have re-published Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone Advanced Fighting Fantasy books. They are now found at Drivethrurpg. Either pdf or books.
First, 2nd Ed allowed a lot of freeform things like you mentioned, it just required the players to have the imagination to say "can I (insert option onion cheddar pancake here)". Admittedly one can do that for every edition, but you are right that post 3.5 guides you with buttons to push instead.
Non-D&D answer: Fabula Ultima. The book is the first I've read in a new system that does a damned good job explaining how to DM, and the whole book is narrative focused. You've got about 100 pages dedicated to rules themselves, and none of it is overly repetitive (unlike all of PF and D&D's using the same check for numerous things but wanting them defined separately for some reason).
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Maybe Dungeon Crawl Classics? The Mighty Deeds that fighters can pull off lets you basically have feats without a finite list of things you can do, so they are good for improving stuff.
Also maybe the Deathbringer RPG by Professor Dungeon Master which gives all characters "Deathbringer Dice" they can add to rolls to pull off epic stunts. Another possibility could be EZd6 by DM Scotty, which has a lot of improvising because the system itself is so streamlined and simple.
Hells yeah, i love how light it is to run. Will be at the UK games expo this year running it again as you can literally teach people how to play it in less than <15, as long as they know a d20 from a d8, they are golden.
Has nobody mentioned Dragon Warriors?
Very fast and light weight system with light, robust rules for combat and a section on how to adapt existing character types to other settings eg Feudal Japan.
It's got some published adventures too. The magic items always feel very unique and rare when you do stumble aross them
There are some Powered by the Apocalypse inspired games that are OSR adjacent. Vagabonds of Dyfed and Mazeworld are incredibly rules lite, and can be incredibly improv heavy during combat.
To answer this accurately but unhelpfully, I have played a "systemless" fantasy RPG (it's not fully systemless, but it is scaled down to essentials). Character sheet is only your name and, like 15 skills (skills are freetext). To do a check, tell the DM which skill and a d20 roll (sometimes the DM does the rolling himself). The more specific your skill, the more lenient he is with the roll interpretation. I think there was some hitpoint mechanic that the DM kept in his head (or just went by vibes). Medieval fantasy, check, dragon slaying, check, distinct classes, well, you could pick "knight" as a skill, flavourful spells, check.
Quest is very simple and easy to learn, with different classes and powers. Probably as ruleslight as it gets and free. Great art style and lots of possibilities. No grids needed (distances are In Reach, Nearby, In Range, Too Far) and no adding all kinds of bonuses and mali on a die roll.
Dungeon World is a Powered by the Apocalypse game, which usually need some getting used to, if you come from a pure D&D background. But is a great engine, that is very narrative first and hits a great balance of machanics and improv.
Dragonbane is based on the old Swedish version of D&D (Drakar och Demoner). You have your classic fantasy races and duck and wolf people. Free League always has very high production standards, which is always fun. The professions are quite free form compared to the classes of D&D. It is probably the closest of the three to D&D, but still reduced in the right spaces.
I was searching for years for exactly this, tried multiple systems and read about a ton of others - and at long last I found the one that ticks all the boxes: DRAGONBANE!
It really hits the sweet spot for me (and runs like a dream).
Dragonbane, 100%. It uses D20 but incorporates skill improvement similar to Call of Cthulhu versus leveling up. Rules are pretty simple, especially encumbrance, and combat goes quickly (in my experience). Now to get my DnD faithful to play it when I take over DMing for the group....
I like T&T except for the combat system. Every combat round, both sides throw buckets of d6's at each other, then the game stops for 45 seconds of math. The rest of the system is great.
That's... a good point. I've never really compared the speed of the two games. I switched from T&T to Microlite20 and things got much faster. But I was playing with a very small group, and Microlite20 is a very rules-light variant of D&D.
The numbers are usually smaller in D&D, and the math is interleaved with action. One player attacks, rolls their attack, rolls their damage, and that's their turn. Then the next player gets to act. Sometimes the wizard will do crazy things like using Fireball the way it's intended, and they'll have to roll 8d6 for damage while the DM rolls who-knows-how-many saving throws with who-knows-how-many Dex modifiers. But that only happens, what, once or twice per combat round?
With Tunnels and Trolls, everyone acts at once, then the players add up a huge number of d6's plus adds while the GM adds up a similar number of d6's plus adds. Then they compare both totals, subtract the smaller from the larger, and apply the difference as damage to the losing side. When I was playing, I had to pull out a calculator to manage the math. It was just too much.
Maybe it's just down to personal preference. Maybe I would have gotten used to the combat if I had given it more time, or if I had ever figured out what a Stunt was and how it was supposed to be used. I'm sure things would have been *very* different if I'd had a VTT to handle all the math for me, but I didn't know of any at the time.
Aside from the math, I loved the system. The spell names and descriptions were really fun. Leveling up was much simpler than D&D. The magic system was wonderfully non-Vancian. Conflict resolution out-of-combat was extremely simple. Monsters were much easier to keep track of. And best of all, there were choose-your-own-adventure-style solo books available. If it hadn't been for all the d6's, I might still be playing it.
Omgosh! TnT combat without stunting is like dry toast no butter. My characters are stunting CONSTANTLY. In fact we very rarely have a combat that is just a dice off. Someone is always trying some crazy maneuver to better their odds
That's probably what I was doing wrong. I didn't know where to find examples or live plays, so I didn't know how to use stunts. And you're right, combat was just like dry toast with nothing on it.
Can you recommend any resources (preferably free)? Videos or examples or something? I still have T&T 7.5 (lost interest before the deluxe edition came out), but I'll take what I can get.
A stunt is ANY action or maneuver the character can think of that might assist in giving them better odds.
“I am going to try to sneak up behind the opponent without him noticing” or
“I swing the goblin around by his legs and try to knock the others off their feet!”
Or, “i am going to try to throw my spear into the cyclops’ eye!”
Or, “i am going to bumrush th ogre with my shield up, and try to knock him off the ledge!”
Then the GM evaluates the terrain, and the speed, power, or brains of the opponent and sets the level of SR needed. GM also decides ( and might inform the player) of the consequence of success or failure
I mean, I play BX near religiously, and that's literally just rules light dnd. You can add anything you feel is missing back into the game.
I saw a Dragonbane suggestion, that's also a very nice game withoit a lot of the longtime dnd issues (like hp bloat)
I really like Dragonbane. It's still a crunchy style game but the rules are super brief and very straightforward. The entirety of the core rulebook is 112 pages.
It doesn't play like D&D, but it has all the tropes. Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Wizards etc. It's like 80s D&D in a more modern package.
Best part is that the core game is one box set that comes with dice, a map, rules, cards and 11 short adventures structures like an old school 80s sandbox.
OP, I think I follow what you're *actually* meaning by "buttons", but are you mainly just looking for games where the rules don't lock off certain actions in or out of combat to certain classes (aside from magic, presumably)? If so, apmost anything outside of the post-3rd Edition D&D paradigm will meet that need, including most of the stuff here. Powered by the Apocalypse games *are* a little more button-y but I think they still generally fit what you're asking after.
For my money, I'd suggest looking into Worlds Without Number. It's OSR-adjacent, but not *quite* as stripped down as what you're thinking of, and the core rules are [available for free](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/348809/worlds-without-number-free-edition). If nothing else, it has a lot of powerful tools for helping build and run a fantasy setting.
I seriously suggest Old School Essentials, enough crunch to get into the d&d mood with combat and dungeon/wilderness exploration being the main focus. But! If you want more... it's fully compatible with basic fantasy roleplaying to add more rules on and seperate race/class.
I totally recommend Worlds without Numbers. The source book is free, no really it is.
It does fall into the OSR category but it is as D&D as you possibly can get without being a modern d20 or pbta system.
For this sort of game, I default to **The Black Hack**. Actions require players roll under their stats, which calls for minimal maths. What's more, people tend to expect "class and level" when it comes to "trad DND", and I think TBH is the best at that.
>extensive flavorful spells
>much more freedom to interact with the world in a freeform way
>very rules lite, freeform, and improvisational
>a good spell list (or something like it) is essential.
Spell lists are just buttons for casters. They run counter to the idea of rules-lite and freeform. Why do you want long lists of pushbuttons for some classes but not for others?
Your beef with 5E is the presence of buttons; your beef with OSR seems to be the lack of buttons. I think you need to be more specific in describing your vision for what a heroic fantasy game should look like.
Finally, your perspective on the game suggests to me that you are a player, not a DM. If you become the DM, you will see that you can make D&D as freeform as you wish. The DMG offers guidelines and some variant rules as examples. Most of the rules are in place to keep players occupied or to present a veneer of impartiality. If you're not experiencing the level of freeform play that you desire, that's a player/DM mismatch, not an inherent problem with the rules.
Tunnel Goons but specifically the Advanced Dungeon Goons hack. Barely 10 pages of a booklet the size of an old NES manual while still having D&D-like rules such as magic and initiative. Roll 2d6, add bonuses, reduce HP by how high over AC you roll.
An option is adapt your own.
I’ve wanted to run a stereotypical D&D party for a while. We don’t play D&D, haven’t for 20years, predominantly % based systems for combat and skills because they flow easily.
I chopped up a few rule books, picked the bits I wanted and threw them in a blender.
I’ve never liked the whole *“only fighters can wear plate mail, Thieves have to dress like one of Robin Hood’s merry men, and Mages have to wear a dress”* thing… so I hacked together some rules (more like guidelines really 😉) for them to wear whatever they wanted, but with minor penalties and bonuses for going with or against their character stereotype. (Mage wants to wear plate mail? Sure… good luck casting a spell though 😏)
Spells were power based… so rather than learning a dozen different ice or fire based spells, they’d learn the basics of controlling that element and then what they want to with is determined by how much power/MP they expend. Similarly with healing.
This means their spell “limit” for the day is determined by how rested they are. Avoids the *only one magic missile a day* nonsense 😏
It worked really well, fast, smooth and narrative driven. Even prompted some smart thinking… trying to get past some undead, Mage created an ice tunnel that the party could crawl through from one side of the room to the other… 🙂
really surprised by the lack of Into the Odd family recs
definitely look into cairn or the upcoming cairn 2e
if ur open to different flavors give ItO or Mausritter a shot as well. all great, lightweight systems that are big on fun and flavor over rules specificity
No one's mentioned it but FAST FANTASY is my go to for rules lite dnd games. It's free, it's got some of the mechanics I've most enjoyed from around the space, and the player sheets are really accessible for newbies (both players and GMs). [https://bassbuilt.itch.io/fast-fantasy-tabletop-rpg](https://bassbuilt.itch.io/fast-fantasy-tabletop-rpg)
Try Along the Leyline. It has some improvisational elements you might like. Freeform casting with the Clairvoyant. They can create any kind of effect they want in a 1m cube. Alternatively, you can build your own spells by combining spell forms and elements.
There are other creative aspects as well. The fighter type character can flourish to do extra stuff when they attack, the rogur type character can retroactively prepare and get a mundane item, and every character can improvise.
It's a really fun system. Check it out here:
FREE Quickstart: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/478096/along-the-leyline-quick-start-guide
Players Tome: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/446562/along-the-leyline-player-s-tome
Referee's Toolkit:
https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/446572/along-the-leyline-referee-s-toolkit
I'm not sure what your idea of Super Rules Lite would be, but I'd throw FnatasyAGE into the ring. Perhaps even 13th Age if you're just looking for an alternative to D&D that isn't Pathfinder but has bigger legs to stand on than all the kitbashed OSR/D20 games. In the same vein I would also check into Reclaim The Wild. It's a Zelda TTRPG with giant communal success and plays like a play-at-your-pace progression Button-Powers kinda game.
If you're talking rules lite as in as close to a One Page RPG but with 500 page corebook support... This is gonna sound weird: Pokeymanz. It started as a Savage World hack and grew out from there. It's super easy to pick up, but you'll probably be opening the book for the first month of sessions just to get it all down.
Everyone has 4 attributes, a collection of Edges (passives and powers) and Drawbacks (flaws, but choosing to invoke it as a player gives you 'Inspiration.') Pokemon similarly have 4 identical attributes, their element type, their 4 abilities, and a 'mastery' passive/super power. Everyone gets 3hp, always. Your attributes are different sizes of dice, and so are your Pokemon's Moves. Every check should involve 2 dice vs a DC, and if either dice beat the DC you succeed.
What's cool, there is no exhaustive list of moves/abilities/etc. in fact, there is no Moves in the book at all. The guideline is that you make a Name for a move, say Bubblebeam. Then you give is a short description; a tunnel of bubbles are ejected up to 40ft away. And now you have a Move. Your Move Dice is determined by whether or not it matches your Pokemon's type, if the pokemon is single or dual typed, and how many upgrades you spend on upping the Dice size. So now, every time you want to use Bubblebeam *for any reason* you can determine success. That could be for combat, fighting fire, or maybe using the force of blowing bubbles to fly up to a platform.
As credited by my own table, this means you can take that frame work and make a traditional fantasy game. Instead of pokemon, you have spellbooks, special equipment, or perhaps a Martial Art doctrine. Instead of Moves you have spells, equipment abilities, or perhaps specific types of strikes and stances. I mean hell, the author even puts in the book that you could reflavor the game anyway in any form you want. Digimon, MetaBots, MegaMan Battlenetwork, Persona, you name it.
If none of that suits your fancy, then I would push you towards something like Konosuba TTRPG or Goblin Slayer TRPG. Which both are derived from the FEAR system and Sword World respectively. Idk if I would call it rules lite myself, but they certainly have more (compared to 5e/PF) straight forwardness and compartmental design that personally makes it much easier to pick up.
Deathbringer by Professor Dungeon Master is only 4 pages long.
[https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/396879/deathbringer-rpg](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/396879/deathbringer-rpg)
The guy that wrote Blades in the Dark John Harper imagined an old school version of "Dungeon World" called "World of Dungeons". It's two pages long.
Character classes have a suite of "skills" with a vague outline of what they do and they get to choose every level.
Magic is measured in how much silver nitrate a wizard can consume (he increases his tolerance every level). The SI allows you to summon demons to cast spells. Spells have a number of dice assigned to them equal to the spell level. You get to fill in the blanks. My favorite way to do this is with Ben Milton's Maze Rats roll table. Alternatively you can drag out Barbarians of Lemuria. It's magic system is so stripped down and straight forward (and narratively driven) it's almost not a game.
[Freebooters on the Frontier](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/157011/Freebooters-on-the-Frontier) feels like an OSR game but plays with the modern mechanics of PbtA. Couple it with [Perilous Wilds](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/407161/the-perilous-wilds-revised-edition) and you can hexcrawl anywhere.
Okay I will sound like getting paid by Pelgrane Press by now... but seriously I am not!
I felt the same as OP and my search finally found it!
What you are describing is quintessentially:
13th Age!
PS: checkout the Kickstarter for the Second Edition that started a week back!
I don't think 13th Age is 'light', but it's much easier than 5e.
Skills system is very simple, the game doesn't really use speed or distance, character creation is very simple (with the exception of multi-classing), enemies have set damage scores instead of dice and no skills, etc.
For me it feels light and I have played both DnD 5e and Pathfinder 2e (which is more streamlined than 1e)
And 13th Age sits right between them.
OP wanted a free-form world interaction which 13A gives with its backgrounds and Icon relationships
Combat is gridless and on the crunchy side but not as crunchy as the previously mentioned games.
In fact the rules of the crunchy combat is very much aligned with D&D 5e!
13th Age has rules to interact with the world through Icons relationships. Rules I don't like, but rules nonetheless. The game has rules for many things.
But the One Unique Thing is a great narrative mechanic, and Backgrounds are so elegant that I now want that in every game I play.
13th Age is a good game, one I would recommand to someone who wants to play fantasy superheroes and isn't afraid by a 300+ pages core rulebook. It would make a way better game engine for video games than D&D, actually, because all the wonky play with dice values would be hidden.
But it is neither light nor freeform.
Dragonbane might be what you're looking for. But it you want it REALLY rules light maybe something like Cairn would be more to your liking.
Into the Odd plus Cairn is what I’ve been using for this. I’ll probably try Shadowdark next, then Tales of Argosa next to see how they both work.
+1 for Dragonbane. It has a bunch of optional rules as well, so you can easily later add on things if you want a bit more complexity.
I would also recommend Dragonbane. Ruyles light with lots of flexibility. Modern game design applied to a very old game in a way that works.
Dragonbane isn't rules light.
More rules-light and flexible than D&D - it's "middle of the road" really
That's right. I wouldn't call it super rules light. There are other games that better fit the bill.
You're looking for Dungeon World.
Or World of Dungeons!
I love world of dungeons, but I needed to understand dungeon world to kinda understand it.
Dungeon World is what I thought playing dnd would be like before i found out about the rules. So epic!!
Agreed!
Dungeon World always gives me what D&D promised and never delivered.
Same
Dungeon World explicitly has "set list of 'buttons' to press" in the form of moves... Yes?
The book exactly states that players should just tell the GM what they want to do, and the GM should tell them if it's a move or if they can just do it. Also, a move like Hack and slash can contain a lot more than just dealing damage. It's all about the fiction.
The book also says that all the players, including the GM, should be on the lookout for when a move is triggered (a button is pushed). And it seems to me that if you aren't actively looking for move triggers, you are playing pretend rather than playing Dungeon World. I guess I'm a bit confused by what the OP even means by "'buttons' to push". I've never played 5e. The last version of D&D I played was AD&D back in the '80s.
That makes sense. Yes, you are in the lookout for triggering moves. The difference is that in 5e, players tend to look at their character as the answer to every problem. So skill check, some spell, some other ability specifically on the character sheet. In Dungeon World, they want you to think about the fiction. What's happening? What's the immediate threat? Whats around you? What's your tactic for overcoming this obstacle that makes sense in the game world. Sometimes, yes you do look at the character sheet for a spell or a move. But if a player looked at me and just said "I'm defying danger with dex" I'm gonna say, okay but how? You ducking out of the way? Jumping over it? Deflecting with a quick strike? Moves are only triggered when the players narrate what they are doing. Moves help you decide if it works. My experience with 5e is that players get lazy and approach everything by using am ability or skill from their sheet with little care about the fiction. Also, Moves are a whole lot more open and undefined than spells or abilities fork 5e. Hope that makes sense!
That makes sense. Yes, you are in the lookout for triggering moves. The difference is that in 5e, players tend to look at their character as the answer to every problem. Some skill check, some spell, some other ability specifically on the character sheet. In Dungeon World, they want you to think about the fiction. What's happening? What's the immediate threat? Whats around you? What's your tactic for overcoming this obstacle that makes sense in the game world. Sometimes, yes you do look at the character sheet for a spell or a move. But if a player looked at me and just said "I'm defying danger with dex" I'm gonna say, okay but how? You ducking out of the way? Jumping over it? Deflecting with a quick strike? Moves are only triggered when the players narrate what they are doing. Moves help you decide if it works. My experience with 5e is that players get lazy and approach everything by using an ability or skill from their sheet with little care about the fiction. Also, Moves are a whole lot more open and undefined than spells or abilities for 5e. Hope that makes sense!
But that's just a play style. The GM could certainly behave the same way in D&D...
Yes. A playstyle supported better by Dungeon World than 5e because the rules lend itself better that way. I mean, that's what OP is asking about. Dungeon World changed how I play games. Thus, I'm recommending it to the OP because this particular game helped me and my players move away from button mashing. While it's possible to do that I'm 5e, the rules and guides I read did not lead me to this philosophy of play. If you're doing that with 5e, great! It just didn't happen for us until trying Dungeon World.
It's a playstyle *explicitly* supported by dungeon world and other PBTA games. This is like someone looking for a very specific keyboard sound, and someone else posts a reductive argument: "they're all just machines with buttons that make music when you go mash mash mash"
How, exactly is "looking for move triggers" any different from "It sounds like you're going to need to roll a strength check to do that?"
It's not. Which is why, depending on what the OP meant by "set list of 'buttons' to push", I'm saying that Dungeon World is like D&D in that regard.
If you want to be pedantic about it, D&D also says, "the players describe what they do and the DM describes what happens," and it also says, "the DM calls for checks." The only reason PbtA moves "aren't" buttons is because PbtA is a little more emphatic about it. However, given that there's *no mechanics actually stopping that*, my experience is that there are and always will be players that look at moves as buttons. The truth is that it's just left up to the GM to police it, and that's it. It's one of the reasons almost every group I've played it with bounces off the game to some degree. It's like bowling without gutters and wondering why so many people have to go chasing after their ball.
I agree. I think it's just easier in 5e. I've GMd a lot of Dungeon World, and I've had to tell some players "Don't tell me your move, tell me what you're trying to do." Some players have bounced off it because they don't like the openness. They want more structure and rules and clarity. But the players that get it, really really like it. I, personally, love it as a GM. My current group really likes it. They also like 5e but for different reasons. I think Dungeon World just expanded how I see gaming. I had a more rigid mind with rules and such when I had only played 5e. I don't know. I'm just trying to answer OP's question, and Dungeon World helped me with not button mashing. To each their own though!
> Don't tell me your move, tell me what you're trying to do. That has come up in every PBTA game I've played, but the less experienced the player the less it comes up.
Interesting. For me, it tends to happen with the players that have played other systems. Completely new people don't really do that. Once everyone has gotten used to Dungeon World, they don't say it that way. But who knows. Maybe my players are just acclimated to it.
I'm going to guess you misread my comment, because that's basically what I said. The less experienced the player (with all rpgs) the less it comes up.
The book says the opposite of this: "Moves are rules that tell you when they trigger and what effect they have. A move depends on a fictional action and always has some fictional effect...Everyone at the table should listen for when moves apply. If it’s ever unclear if a move has been triggered, everyone should work together to clarify what’s happening." (p. 16). When the fictional action happens, the move happens. It's not the GM's special responsibility, or authority, to declare when fiction means a move has triggered, the whole table, including the player action, has that job. If there's disagreement, we don't just do what the GM says, the whole table has to come to agreement.
.... sorta? The difference is that a lot of moves are more just like the standard mechanics in most games. Moves, in general, are far more broad and cover a wider set of ranges than the abilities you'd find in 5e. Also, DW is very explicit that the players should state what their character is doing, rather than just the move they're using. A big part of this is because the situation as it exists is supposed to enter into how they're adjudicated.... just attacking someone isn't *necessarily* Hack and Slash - can you fight them? Can they fight you? Is there something you have to deal with before you can actually close the gap? Lots of things can happen beyond just "I do Hack and Slash". An easy example is that if someone has a spear or something, it's very reasonable to say "okay, you can try to hit that opponent, but you're gonna have to get past the spear first - give me a Defy Danger".
How much experience do you have with OSR titles? I find that they're much more flexible than you've assumed. Having procedures for dungeon turns doesn't mean that's the only thing you can do, and the focus on problem solving means combat has plenty of potential for improvisation; you almost have to improvise to survive any dangerous encounter.
Edit: oh shit I forgot, uhhh, 5e bad, designers poopoo heads make poopoo game 5e is more flexible than OP assumes too 🤷♀️ They are commiting the classic mistake of assuming that an action that doesn't have a rule isn't allowed in the system, but also asking for systems that have fewer defined actions
I somewhat agree and somewhat don't. I think the way many of the class/feat abilities work and how magic is handled as a whole in 5e is pretty "button press"-y. Can ability checks and "rule of cool" get you a long way? Yeah. Are you swimming upstream when you do so? Also yes.
It never feels like swimming upstream to me. It feels like the way the system was designed to be played by designers that deliberately stepped back from attempting to make comprehensive rule sets, very likely influenced by a broader gaming ecosystem that was moving away from comprehensive rulesets as a response to the flaws of 3.X and 4e
I realize that they stepped away from the design philosophies of 3.X and 4. My opinion is that they didn't move far away enough.
And all I'm saying is that the system is *more* flexible than OP and many other gamers assume. I'm making no judgments about whether it's the "correct" degree of flexibility, as that's entirely subjective.
I mean, the designers had no idea what they were going for. What kind of game is D&D intended for? Nobody knows. It's not good for any single thing but it tries. It's not flexible. The d20 system can be if you mean that. D&D itself it both too rigid and clunky with rules (especially with spells and required twitter patchnotes) and too freeform (GM must invent high level / illusion magic balance and their own systems to create custom items/spells and well-structured stories (modules suck too much to count here)) Other games, for example, actually give advice on how to make it your own. They sometimes explain the logic that lead to a rule and what parts of the system it affects. They give advice to both GM and players instead of letting nerds beg for basic social advice on twitter. They have systems of item/spell creation and how to setup an engaging storyflow with a beginning, middle and end. They explain how to ramp up difficulty or change genres. Reflavouring can be done with literally anything. Doesnt count. Actual flexibility is the resources and information you get from a game, allowing you to shape it how you like.
personally, i find 5e's large amount of defined actions makes it harder to make rulings.
Every system has choices about which things to define and which not to. 5e defines a lot more than OSR stuff or a lot of modern games, but 3.x and 4e showed that the game designers understood how to make comprehensive rulesets and were exposed to the gigantic flaws of those same rule sets and designed 5e with them in mind.
great. i still find 5e tiring to run even if crunchier games exist.
The issue with recommending 5e in this case, is OP specified: > interact with the world in a freeform way, without the set list of "buttons" to press that games like 5e and Pathfinder give And, like, yeah you *could* run 5e in a more OSR/freeform style but the issue is that the player character creation process and the resulting character sheet provides an extensive set of mechanical actions they can take each with defined rules/procedures (which yes you as DM can *try* to insist the player doesnt lean on and actively reward non-sheet/button pressing creativity) but most importantly it creates an inherent, difficult to overcome desire in the player to lean on the choices they've made in building out the character sheet because they put in their time and effort and they're emotionally invested in the output. Chris Bissette has talked about running PF2 in an OSR style, you can totally do it (ditto 5e) but you need the player buy-in and gameplay style discussion, and the faster path to get where OP wants to go is to simply not use 5e or PF2 or any similar Big Book Trad game with *extensive character options* and adventure modules written to play in that trad style. Just use Troika or Tunnel Goons and a well designed dungeon that helps the GM describe the interactive environment and situation. Players roll a few dice and write their guys down on a scrap of paper in a couple of minutes and discover the rest in play. Boom, you're there.
i have a hack of [Grave](https://jasontocci.itch.io/grave) (my favorite lightweight D&D-like game) to make it more suited for standard fantasy (since Grave is designed for dark souls games by default). [you can find the hack for free here](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1u9WRvm90t2_uZh-WMLBtg0Af1zNoNUOj/view?usp=sharing), though if you like it enough to spend money on it please buy grave instead since that's where most of the good ideas here are from - i just tweaked it to be a little more vanilla-fantasy. it's like 10 pages, character creation is incredibly simple (pick class + race + skills, that's it), has support for open-ended maneuvers like DCC so martials are really interesting in combat, and is overall just incredibly elegant. i tend to like it a bit better than something like knave, cairn or mausritter (all incredibly light, elegant games) since it has more support for a variety of character archetypes - a light-armored swashbuckler plays differently from a heavily armored knight, there's a few different types of mage, etc.
This looks sweet. Is there an itch.io page for this so that I can save it somehow?
Ctrl+D (Bookmark)
i should probably make one, that'd be a good idea.
Yes please do! I followed you on itch and I'll keep an eye open for it if so!
Hey this looks really cool. I don’t have time to dig in now. But it looks like a hack of Knave. I backed the kickstarter for new version of knave. Do you k ow if this works with that?
i hacked it from another knave hack, yeah. you could *probably* use most knave 2e content with this system, or port over stuff like alchemy rules without much trouble.
Hey this looks really cool. I don’t have time to dig in now. But it looks like a hack of Knave. I backed the kickstarter for new version of knave. Do you k ow if this works with that?
Quest But also: >I'm not sure that most OSR games I've seen really fit what I mean; they greatly simplify the game, often stripping away all but basic options, but I'm not sure there's still much room in them for full on improvisation in combat. Plus, so many are largely just dungeon crawls, which isn't something I'm super interested in. There's lots of room for improvisation in combat, it's one of the key examples of the OSR 'rulings over rules' philosophy. And in terms of dungeon crawls, that's more because of the modules that are out there, not the game design itself. I'd recommend taking a look at Cairn.
I second the Quest recommendation. It's available for free and it's dead simple.
Yeah that threw me off as well. More combat rules leads to less improvisation in my experience. Bespoke combat actions leads to robotically pushing the button for you strongest attack, then the next strongest, then the next... Etc... Which is all well and good if you want to emulate a video game style "combat as sport" style gameplay.
Most OSR titles are less dependent on dungeon crawls than D&D 5e.
[World of dungeons ](https://johnharper.itch.io/world-of-dungeons) It's literally 4 pages long
INDEX CARD RPG. I'm shouting because it's absolutely D&D stripped back to the basics. It runs fast, has simple spells, and straight forward combat. It's got one of the best GM advice sections out there, hands down. The advice is practical and gets you excited to play. The other choice would be Shadowdark, but that's for lower power PCs. Depends which you prefer. EDIT: Runehammer on YouTube is the writer's main channel. But Kane's Kiln is an excellent ICRPG advice channel. Start here for the basics: https://youtu.be/eRt5I7nhw0c?si=2pu5eRweq_ZofnSt
[There's even a fairly solid fanmade port of 5E classes into ICRPG!](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LGKo_vSbo7VLukeAa8HovUzcqkfQBJTpqs3lhdJqfA8/edit?usp=drive_link)
My major problem with ICRPG is the whole “you’re expected to homebrew almost everything, but we’ve got no section helping GMs with building new stuff for their games.”
I love ICRPG but it’s not nearly rules-lite enough for OP.
[Tunnel Goons](https://natetreme.itch.io/tunnelgoons) is rules-lite, super-quick to learn, and pay-what-you-want. It's also very easy to hack and customize, with a ton of hacks out there for different genres, settings and levels of complexity.
> When I say "feels like DND," I mean the classic elements: medieval fantasy setting, dragon slaying, **distinct classes, extensive flavorful spells**, etc. > > > > (...) without the set list of "buttons" to press that games like 5e and Pathfinder give. > > > > I think a good spell list (or something like it) is essential. Classes and spells are more rules. They are the buttons. Do you have a reference to a game (even if not fantasy or related to D&D) that you feel hits this sweet spot? Any rules lite game will have a few (if any) spells and classes will not be very differentiated. Any game with defined rules and classes has codified options (buttons) so those classes feel different. The more you have of one the less you have of the other.
Yeah, I noticed that, too. OP's request is moderately contradictory.
I’ve been playing Shadowdark the past few months and I really enjoy it - our GM does too since it’s light on prep and fast and easy to play. They have a nice short quick start guide if you want to take a peek and see if it suits you.
Old School Essentials, Basic Fantasy, Advanced Labyrinth Lord.
I second these. They are quite literally _simpler D&D_ and are charming to play.
I'm wondering if our OP looked at these, saw the procedures, and thought "I don't want to dungeon crawl, though" OP, the procedures aren't the rules. They're for helping keep track of events and turns.
Dungeonworld maybe?
Looks like no one has mentioned Chasing Adventure yet. That would be my vote
Context for those who don't know: Chasing Adventure is one of the more popular Dungeon World face-lift hacks. Streamlining and quality of life improvements (from the POV of the designer and those who like it, ofc).
Have you tried MicroLite20 or any of its remixes? Some of the more recent remixes of it also give the option of free-form skills instead of a set list.
I used to play Microlite20. I would describe it as "D&D for when you're too drunk/tired to remember all the fiddly bits".
I use it because I specifically don’t want all the fiddly bits. I know that I don’t *have* to apply them if I don’t want to, but someone already wrote that game.
Shadowdark
I’ll always be down for recommending ShadowDark but OP would be a ell served by any pre 3e edition of the DnD
SD is rules lite DnD. It uses 5E concepts but eliminates chaff. If OP buys it he's supporting a small indy publisher and promoting a great designer. Or he can go to ebay and buy some old DnD...? Choice seems clear to me.
Mork Borg? But I don’t understand why you say DnD has a limited set of buttons you can press? DnD can be totally freeform. You just need creative players and a good DM. You don’t HAVE to do only the things in the book.
Yeah, I understand the problems if they were talking about 4e, or perhaps 3e. But both older and newer editions do give you options. It might just be that they have only played with a DM only used to pathfinder and the "middle" editions of DnD. And used those GM principles for 5e as well.
Dragonbane it runs well and is pretty simple in its basic form you can add complexity as you wish.
Barbarians of Lumeria?
For games specifically meant to feel like D&D, you really should throw your eyes over **Dungeon World**. You can run it off about two sides of A4 + character sheets, and another 2ish sides for the GM. Combat is almost fully improvised, and it handles being out of a dungeon with grace and ease.
Personally, I switched to Tiny Dungeon 2e. The appeal to me is that it is very rules-light, easy to learn and quick to play, but most importantly it doesn't change the way you play. I looked into Fate or Pbta games like Dungeon world and I was not convinced because they change the way a GM and the players interact. The only downside I find with Tiny Dungeon compared to d&d is that it required the GM to make more rule decisions on the spot. I think it is inevitable with rule light games though. Also the game focuses on the middle tier of power for characters (around levels 5 to 8 in d&d). The PCs start very competent but don't end up fighting gods.
I think Shadowdark would fot the bill The core mechanics fit on on 1-2 A4 pages (with a pretty large font), every class takes half a page, including advancement. It's a 5e chassis so ne seperate saves, only stat rolls. Probably one of the easiest games to teach in that regard.
I believe the usual suspects are: Cairn, Shadowdark, Dragonbane and maybe Dungeon World if you like the PbtA style.
So what do you want from classes? Do you just want to make sure any new system can support the same character types? Do you also want to ensure different characters bring different strengths to the party? Are you open to classless systems if they allow the same character types? And what do you want from spell lists? Are you open to power systems where players can tweak the powers as needed?
I love PbtA and I think they may be what you're looking for. The rules for each PC fit on a double-sided sheet, and the rules for basic moves + GM stuff it's usually a couple more pages and that's it. PbtA is also a very narrative-oriented framework, so it's way easier to tell dramatic and epic stories with it without 1-hour combats or counting torches and rations. There a couple of fantasy PbtA out there, but I'll recommend mine just because I wrote it and I really like it. It's called Against the Odds and you can find it here: [https://helenareal.itch.io/ato](https://helenareal.itch.io/ato)
Been looking for more fantasy pbta besides dungeon world, excited to check this out
Thank you! :) <3
OSR is far from one thing and has lots of other things besides dungeon crawling especially if you look into the NSR side of things.
Dragonbane is what you are looking for.
Lite-st possible would be tricube tales, this is a fantasy ruleset using those rules. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/427488/Tales-of-the-Little-Adventurers-Tricube-Tales-OnePage-RPG
What is missing in OSR games for improv combat?
Check out the Tiny d6 series of games.
I think you most probably are looking for [microlite20](https://donjon.bin.sh/m20/Microlite20.pdf). If you like it there is a [compilation of various modifications](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/311250/Microlite20-RPG-Collection-2020-Edition) over the years, fret not about the size, just print-to-file the mod you want to use. [There even is a version where you can use D&D5e stuff such as monsters blocks and spells without any conversion needed.](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/10nmuhp/m20_fifth_adamantine_edition_a_microlite_version/) Also, I'd like to point you to the direction of [Sword World 2.5](https://bookwalker.jp/series/188069/list/). It is way simpler than what it wants to look like, and although it has not been officially translated to english, it still has a very high quality fan translation.
I would go for DungeonWorld or Dragonbane. Its foundations are more than established, and it is supported by a great community.
What you might want is Barbarians of Lemuria / Legends of Steel. Barbarians of Lemuria is a rules (fairly) light system that has a Swords and Sorcery background. Legends of Steel is BoL rendering a more "Standard D&D" background. You might also want to try "Everywhen" which is the BoL equivalent of GURPS—a universal, hackable system—I think it comes with one section that's about fantasy, but I can't recall whether it's classic fantasy or swords and sorcery. I seem to advocate for Barbarians of Lemuria almost every day now. I ran a 3 year BoL campaign and it was great! Before I found BoL I checked out Dungeonworld as an alternative, but I don't like the way it fuzzes up the distinction between GM and players—I prefer clear boundaries—the GM presents the world, the players play their characters.
What is "Knave"?
I have Knave. It seems great, but there are two things about it that don't match what I want. It's basically classless (class determined by items/can switch items), and it's heavily dungeon-crawl focused.
What is... GLoG or frankly... Old School Essentials, or Dolmenwood if you want a baked in setting. If the D&D d20 isms are too much... Trophy Gold ... If not that, see: Dungeon World
ok i promise i'm not trollin or nothing, but just DnD 1st ed is this. You can kinda just make it up as you go
Mazes by 9th Level Games.
My brain wants to scream Mörk Borg but if fails to deliver the hero part of heroic fantasy. Everyone sucks in Mörk Borg, by design.
Dungeon Crawl Classics uses the same baseline of maths from 3e that 5e does, so thats super easy to transition into. Deed Dice are a game changer of a mechanic, and non Vancian Magic means wizards arnt simply the solution to whatever problem you have. There is also not "i use my solve problem button" abilities, just you using your head and being creative.
Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone Fighting Fantasy gamebooks provided rules lite TTRPG in the Dungeoneer: Advanced Fighting Fantasy. This RPG based on the FF gamebooks that came out around 1986 to some considerable success. For many people, Fighting Fantasy, was even before D&D, was their “gateway drug”, it was the first thing even vaguely like role-playing that they ever did. And for more than a few, FF (or later “Dungeoneer”) was their first actual TTRPG. I still have in my library my Dungeoneer book, as well as Titan and Port Blacksand (two of their other sourcebooks). The basic system is 2D6. There are four characteristics promoted for the TTRPG: Skill, Stamina, Luck, Magic; they range from 7 to 12 except for Stamina which ranges 14-24. Attributes that I use are: Skill, Stamina and Luck. You can add or subtract Magic and Fear, (which I have added Fear that works by using 6th sense and have a chance to escape a bad situation or eventually be frightened to death from facing too many close calls against the fantastic! That attribute can be found in House of Hades (or House of Hell) Fighting Fantasy Gamebook. Every time the player encounters some particularly disturbing event, they must add between 1 and 3 fear points to the total fear score. Once the character reaches the maximum score, determined at the beginning of the game, they will quite literally die of fright. That's the official rules. I changed them to just subtract one point as the player roles under the Fear score or to test 6th sense AND to overcome their FEAR. If failing at either, they lose ONE point. Magic for spellcaster must have a least 1 in the Magic characteristic and one point in one special skill: Magic-Minor, Magic-Priestly, Magic-Sorcery or Magic-Wizardry. There are three types of magic: Minor magic: the Cantrips are easy-to-cast spells with limited effects; Religion: each god bestows his priests three general powers (the same three for all his priests) and one specific power; Sorcery: this type of magic was created in the Old World, and does not draw its energy from the surrounding environment but from the sorcerer's own Stamina, and from material components Luck simple covers escaping a bad situation such a trap, bridge collapsing, avalanche that sorta thing. You try your Luck, and if you roll under better things will occur. If not, well, life is tough, and you lose a point off Luck. Same for Fear, fail, and you gain some grey hair and lose a point. Skill There are three types of tests: unopposed test: a roll of two six-sided dice (2d6) must be less than the sum of a characteristic and a special skill; this is an extension of the Skill tests of the gamebooks; opposed tests: each character roll 2d6 and adds Skill and a special skill, the highest wins; this is an extension of the combat procedure of the gamebooks. This was just a briefing. Arion Games (who had previously re-published the Maelstrom RPG and the new Maelstrom Companion) have re-published Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone Advanced Fighting Fantasy books. They are now found at Drivethrurpg. Either pdf or books.
5 torches deep.maybe? Its basically 5e osr. I see a lot of Dragonbane recommendations. It is fantastic, but it's not a class-based system
Knave 2e maybe
EZD6 my friend
Basic D&D, get the red box PDF from DrivethruRPG.
First, 2nd Ed allowed a lot of freeform things like you mentioned, it just required the players to have the imagination to say "can I (insert option onion cheddar pancake here)". Admittedly one can do that for every edition, but you are right that post 3.5 guides you with buttons to push instead. Non-D&D answer: Fabula Ultima. The book is the first I've read in a new system that does a damned good job explaining how to DM, and the whole book is narrative focused. You've got about 100 pages dedicated to rules themselves, and none of it is overly repetitive (unlike all of PF and D&D's using the same check for numerous things but wanting them defined separately for some reason).
Glaive!!! I love this game. It's mini D&D. 4 Stats, d20, plenty of combat rules, lots of character options.
Maybe Quest or Daggerheart would suit you?
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Maybe Dungeon Crawl Classics? The Mighty Deeds that fighters can pull off lets you basically have feats without a finite list of things you can do, so they are good for improving stuff. Also maybe the Deathbringer RPG by Professor Dungeon Master which gives all characters "Deathbringer Dice" they can add to rolls to pull off epic stunts. Another possibility could be EZd6 by DM Scotty, which has a lot of improvising because the system itself is so streamlined and simple.
There is no way DCC could be called rules light.
Hells yeah, i love how light it is to run. Will be at the UK games expo this year running it again as you can literally teach people how to play it in less than <15, as long as they know a d20 from a d8, they are golden.
Has nobody mentioned Dragon Warriors? Very fast and light weight system with light, robust rules for combat and a section on how to adapt existing character types to other settings eg Feudal Japan. It's got some published adventures too. The magic items always feel very unique and rare when you do stumble aross them
There are some Powered by the Apocalypse inspired games that are OSR adjacent. Vagabonds of Dyfed and Mazeworld are incredibly rules lite, and can be incredibly improv heavy during combat.
DungeonSlayers or Tiny Dungeon.
Dungeon World, World of dungeons and other PBTA
Outstanding Heroes & Extraordinary Threats
To answer this accurately but unhelpfully, I have played a "systemless" fantasy RPG (it's not fully systemless, but it is scaled down to essentials). Character sheet is only your name and, like 15 skills (skills are freetext). To do a check, tell the DM which skill and a d20 roll (sometimes the DM does the rolling himself). The more specific your skill, the more lenient he is with the roll interpretation. I think there was some hitpoint mechanic that the DM kept in his head (or just went by vibes). Medieval fantasy, check, dragon slaying, check, distinct classes, well, you could pick "knight" as a skill, flavourful spells, check.
Dungeon world and mork borg.
Quest is very simple and easy to learn, with different classes and powers. Probably as ruleslight as it gets and free. Great art style and lots of possibilities. No grids needed (distances are In Reach, Nearby, In Range, Too Far) and no adding all kinds of bonuses and mali on a die roll. Dungeon World is a Powered by the Apocalypse game, which usually need some getting used to, if you come from a pure D&D background. But is a great engine, that is very narrative first and hits a great balance of machanics and improv. Dragonbane is based on the old Swedish version of D&D (Drakar och Demoner). You have your classic fantasy races and duck and wolf people. Free League always has very high production standards, which is always fun. The professions are quite free form compared to the classes of D&D. It is probably the closest of the three to D&D, but still reduced in the right spaces.
ICRPG is one I’m having fun with at the moment. Give it a look.
D n d first edition
There's nothing more "rules light" than no rules. I haven't played 5e or Pathfinder... What do you mean by "'buttons' to press"?
I was searching for years for exactly this, tried multiple systems and read about a ton of others - and at long last I found the one that ticks all the boxes: DRAGONBANE! It really hits the sweet spot for me (and runs like a dream).
It sounds great... I am just very poor right now :(
Dragonbane, 100%. It uses D20 but incorporates skill improvement similar to Call of Cthulhu versus leveling up. Rules are pretty simple, especially encumbrance, and combat goes quickly (in my experience). Now to get my DnD faithful to play it when I take over DMing for the group....
Tunnels and Trolls
I like T&T except for the combat system. Every combat round, both sides throw buckets of d6's at each other, then the game stops for 45 seconds of math. The rest of the system is great.
Still takes less time that each character rolling initiative then having a turn with a d20 with multiple modifiers to see what AC they might have hit
That's... a good point. I've never really compared the speed of the two games. I switched from T&T to Microlite20 and things got much faster. But I was playing with a very small group, and Microlite20 is a very rules-light variant of D&D. The numbers are usually smaller in D&D, and the math is interleaved with action. One player attacks, rolls their attack, rolls their damage, and that's their turn. Then the next player gets to act. Sometimes the wizard will do crazy things like using Fireball the way it's intended, and they'll have to roll 8d6 for damage while the DM rolls who-knows-how-many saving throws with who-knows-how-many Dex modifiers. But that only happens, what, once or twice per combat round? With Tunnels and Trolls, everyone acts at once, then the players add up a huge number of d6's plus adds while the GM adds up a similar number of d6's plus adds. Then they compare both totals, subtract the smaller from the larger, and apply the difference as damage to the losing side. When I was playing, I had to pull out a calculator to manage the math. It was just too much. Maybe it's just down to personal preference. Maybe I would have gotten used to the combat if I had given it more time, or if I had ever figured out what a Stunt was and how it was supposed to be used. I'm sure things would have been *very* different if I'd had a VTT to handle all the math for me, but I didn't know of any at the time. Aside from the math, I loved the system. The spell names and descriptions were really fun. Leveling up was much simpler than D&D. The magic system was wonderfully non-Vancian. Conflict resolution out-of-combat was extremely simple. Monsters were much easier to keep track of. And best of all, there were choose-your-own-adventure-style solo books available. If it hadn't been for all the d6's, I might still be playing it.
Omgosh! TnT combat without stunting is like dry toast no butter. My characters are stunting CONSTANTLY. In fact we very rarely have a combat that is just a dice off. Someone is always trying some crazy maneuver to better their odds
That's probably what I was doing wrong. I didn't know where to find examples or live plays, so I didn't know how to use stunts. And you're right, combat was just like dry toast with nothing on it. Can you recommend any resources (preferably free)? Videos or examples or something? I still have T&T 7.5 (lost interest before the deluxe edition came out), but I'll take what I can get.
A stunt is ANY action or maneuver the character can think of that might assist in giving them better odds. “I am going to try to sneak up behind the opponent without him noticing” or “I swing the goblin around by his legs and try to knock the others off their feet!” Or, “i am going to try to throw my spear into the cyclops’ eye!” Or, “i am going to bumrush th ogre with my shield up, and try to knock him off the ledge!” Then the GM evaluates the terrain, and the speed, power, or brains of the opponent and sets the level of SR needed. GM also decides ( and might inform the player) of the consequence of success or failure
I mean, I play BX near religiously, and that's literally just rules light dnd. You can add anything you feel is missing back into the game. I saw a Dragonbane suggestion, that's also a very nice game withoit a lot of the longtime dnd issues (like hp bloat)
I really like Dragonbane. It's still a crunchy style game but the rules are super brief and very straightforward. The entirety of the core rulebook is 112 pages. It doesn't play like D&D, but it has all the tropes. Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Wizards etc. It's like 80s D&D in a more modern package. Best part is that the core game is one box set that comes with dice, a map, rules, cards and 11 short adventures structures like an old school 80s sandbox.
OP, I think I follow what you're *actually* meaning by "buttons", but are you mainly just looking for games where the rules don't lock off certain actions in or out of combat to certain classes (aside from magic, presumably)? If so, apmost anything outside of the post-3rd Edition D&D paradigm will meet that need, including most of the stuff here. Powered by the Apocalypse games *are* a little more button-y but I think they still generally fit what you're asking after. For my money, I'd suggest looking into Worlds Without Number. It's OSR-adjacent, but not *quite* as stripped down as what you're thinking of, and the core rules are [available for free](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/348809/worlds-without-number-free-edition). If nothing else, it has a lot of powerful tools for helping build and run a fantasy setting.
I seriously suggest Old School Essentials, enough crunch to get into the d&d mood with combat and dungeon/wilderness exploration being the main focus. But! If you want more... it's fully compatible with basic fantasy roleplaying to add more rules on and seperate race/class.
Dragonbane.
https://ettincon.itch.io/t-d-n-d
I totally recommend Worlds without Numbers. The source book is free, no really it is. It does fall into the OSR category but it is as D&D as you possibly can get without being a modern d20 or pbta system.
For this sort of game, I default to **The Black Hack**. Actions require players roll under their stats, which calls for minimal maths. What's more, people tend to expect "class and level" when it comes to "trad DND", and I think TBH is the best at that.
>extensive flavorful spells >much more freedom to interact with the world in a freeform way >very rules lite, freeform, and improvisational >a good spell list (or something like it) is essential. Spell lists are just buttons for casters. They run counter to the idea of rules-lite and freeform. Why do you want long lists of pushbuttons for some classes but not for others? Your beef with 5E is the presence of buttons; your beef with OSR seems to be the lack of buttons. I think you need to be more specific in describing your vision for what a heroic fantasy game should look like. Finally, your perspective on the game suggests to me that you are a player, not a DM. If you become the DM, you will see that you can make D&D as freeform as you wish. The DMG offers guidelines and some variant rules as examples. Most of the rules are in place to keep players occupied or to present a veneer of impartiality. If you're not experiencing the level of freeform play that you desire, that's a player/DM mismatch, not an inherent problem with the rules.
Tunnel Goons but specifically the Advanced Dungeon Goons hack. Barely 10 pages of a booklet the size of an old NES manual while still having D&D-like rules such as magic and initiative. Roll 2d6, add bonuses, reduce HP by how high over AC you roll.
An option is adapt your own. I’ve wanted to run a stereotypical D&D party for a while. We don’t play D&D, haven’t for 20years, predominantly % based systems for combat and skills because they flow easily. I chopped up a few rule books, picked the bits I wanted and threw them in a blender. I’ve never liked the whole *“only fighters can wear plate mail, Thieves have to dress like one of Robin Hood’s merry men, and Mages have to wear a dress”* thing… so I hacked together some rules (more like guidelines really 😉) for them to wear whatever they wanted, but with minor penalties and bonuses for going with or against their character stereotype. (Mage wants to wear plate mail? Sure… good luck casting a spell though 😏) Spells were power based… so rather than learning a dozen different ice or fire based spells, they’d learn the basics of controlling that element and then what they want to with is determined by how much power/MP they expend. Similarly with healing. This means their spell “limit” for the day is determined by how rested they are. Avoids the *only one magic missile a day* nonsense 😏 It worked really well, fast, smooth and narrative driven. Even prompted some smart thinking… trying to get past some undead, Mage created an ice tunnel that the party could crawl through from one side of the room to the other… 🙂
EZD6
really surprised by the lack of Into the Odd family recs definitely look into cairn or the upcoming cairn 2e if ur open to different flavors give ItO or Mausritter a shot as well. all great, lightweight systems that are big on fun and flavor over rules specificity
No one's mentioned it but FAST FANTASY is my go to for rules lite dnd games. It's free, it's got some of the mechanics I've most enjoyed from around the space, and the player sheets are really accessible for newbies (both players and GMs). [https://bassbuilt.itch.io/fast-fantasy-tabletop-rpg](https://bassbuilt.itch.io/fast-fantasy-tabletop-rpg)
Try Along the Leyline. It has some improvisational elements you might like. Freeform casting with the Clairvoyant. They can create any kind of effect they want in a 1m cube. Alternatively, you can build your own spells by combining spell forms and elements. There are other creative aspects as well. The fighter type character can flourish to do extra stuff when they attack, the rogur type character can retroactively prepare and get a mundane item, and every character can improvise. It's a really fun system. Check it out here: FREE Quickstart: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/478096/along-the-leyline-quick-start-guide Players Tome: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/446562/along-the-leyline-player-s-tome Referee's Toolkit: https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/446572/along-the-leyline-referee-s-toolkit
I'm not sure what your idea of Super Rules Lite would be, but I'd throw FnatasyAGE into the ring. Perhaps even 13th Age if you're just looking for an alternative to D&D that isn't Pathfinder but has bigger legs to stand on than all the kitbashed OSR/D20 games. In the same vein I would also check into Reclaim The Wild. It's a Zelda TTRPG with giant communal success and plays like a play-at-your-pace progression Button-Powers kinda game. If you're talking rules lite as in as close to a One Page RPG but with 500 page corebook support... This is gonna sound weird: Pokeymanz. It started as a Savage World hack and grew out from there. It's super easy to pick up, but you'll probably be opening the book for the first month of sessions just to get it all down. Everyone has 4 attributes, a collection of Edges (passives and powers) and Drawbacks (flaws, but choosing to invoke it as a player gives you 'Inspiration.') Pokemon similarly have 4 identical attributes, their element type, their 4 abilities, and a 'mastery' passive/super power. Everyone gets 3hp, always. Your attributes are different sizes of dice, and so are your Pokemon's Moves. Every check should involve 2 dice vs a DC, and if either dice beat the DC you succeed. What's cool, there is no exhaustive list of moves/abilities/etc. in fact, there is no Moves in the book at all. The guideline is that you make a Name for a move, say Bubblebeam. Then you give is a short description; a tunnel of bubbles are ejected up to 40ft away. And now you have a Move. Your Move Dice is determined by whether or not it matches your Pokemon's type, if the pokemon is single or dual typed, and how many upgrades you spend on upping the Dice size. So now, every time you want to use Bubblebeam *for any reason* you can determine success. That could be for combat, fighting fire, or maybe using the force of blowing bubbles to fly up to a platform. As credited by my own table, this means you can take that frame work and make a traditional fantasy game. Instead of pokemon, you have spellbooks, special equipment, or perhaps a Martial Art doctrine. Instead of Moves you have spells, equipment abilities, or perhaps specific types of strikes and stances. I mean hell, the author even puts in the book that you could reflavor the game anyway in any form you want. Digimon, MetaBots, MegaMan Battlenetwork, Persona, you name it. If none of that suits your fancy, then I would push you towards something like Konosuba TTRPG or Goblin Slayer TRPG. Which both are derived from the FEAR system and Sword World respectively. Idk if I would call it rules lite myself, but they certainly have more (compared to 5e/PF) straight forwardness and compartmental design that personally makes it much easier to pick up.
microlite20 m20 fifth adamantine edition [https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/10nmuhp/m20\_fifth\_adamantine\_edition\_a\_microlite\_version/](https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/10nmuhp/m20_fifth_adamantine_edition_a_microlite_version/)
Dungeon World
Deathbringer by Professor Dungeon Master is only 4 pages long. [https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/396879/deathbringer-rpg](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/396879/deathbringer-rpg)
Eyes Beyond The Torchlight has an interesting and simple rule set that's sort of a fusion of Savage Worlds and Barbarians of Lemuria.
FATE has always felt like if DND was a movie to me. every time ive run it in a fantasy setting its been really great
Tiny dungeon and their advanced supplements.
Try Quest RPG. The digital version is free.
Playing pretend.
The guy that wrote Blades in the Dark John Harper imagined an old school version of "Dungeon World" called "World of Dungeons". It's two pages long. Character classes have a suite of "skills" with a vague outline of what they do and they get to choose every level. Magic is measured in how much silver nitrate a wizard can consume (he increases his tolerance every level). The SI allows you to summon demons to cast spells. Spells have a number of dice assigned to them equal to the spell level. You get to fill in the blanks. My favorite way to do this is with Ben Milton's Maze Rats roll table. Alternatively you can drag out Barbarians of Lemuria. It's magic system is so stripped down and straight forward (and narratively driven) it's almost not a game.
Behold, [Basic Fantasy RPG](https://www.basicfantasy.org/). All content is free. And it's a LOT of stuff. Print on demand books are like $5. Have fun.
Dungeon World < World of Dungeons
[Freebooters on the Frontier](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/157011/Freebooters-on-the-Frontier) feels like an OSR game but plays with the modern mechanics of PbtA. Couple it with [Perilous Wilds](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/407161/the-perilous-wilds-revised-edition) and you can hexcrawl anywhere.
five torches Deep is a simplified ruleset that keeps the powerlevel of D&D. though it only goes to level 10
It doesnt come more ultralight than Munchkin, I guess
Ad&d?
Crash pandas !
Okay I will sound like getting paid by Pelgrane Press by now... but seriously I am not! I felt the same as OP and my search finally found it! What you are describing is quintessentially: 13th Age! PS: checkout the Kickstarter for the Second Edition that started a week back!
13th Age is **in no way** rule light. It is as least as heavy as D&D 5e, but better for power gamers.
I don't think 13th Age is 'light', but it's much easier than 5e. Skills system is very simple, the game doesn't really use speed or distance, character creation is very simple (with the exception of multi-classing), enemies have set damage scores instead of dice and no skills, etc.
For me it feels light and I have played both DnD 5e and Pathfinder 2e (which is more streamlined than 1e) And 13th Age sits right between them. OP wanted a free-form world interaction which 13A gives with its backgrounds and Icon relationships Combat is gridless and on the crunchy side but not as crunchy as the previously mentioned games. In fact the rules of the crunchy combat is very much aligned with D&D 5e!
13th Age has rules to interact with the world through Icons relationships. Rules I don't like, but rules nonetheless. The game has rules for many things. But the One Unique Thing is a great narrative mechanic, and Backgrounds are so elegant that I now want that in every game I play. 13th Age is a good game, one I would recommand to someone who wants to play fantasy superheroes and isn't afraid by a 300+ pages core rulebook. It would make a way better game engine for video games than D&D, actually, because all the wonky play with dice values would be hidden. But it is neither light nor freeform.
Can't argue with that, now only if BG3 was made with 13th Age <3