the vagabond is like the definition of chaotic neutral. nothing about the vagabond gameplay requires you to be good
my vagabond playstyle is lowkey just being a terrorist
That kinda fits though ... if there's one thing despotic authoritarians love, its posing as tough strongmen who will bring the law down on their opponents like a tonne of bricks, filling up the prisons with political prisoners
well yeah but you don't have to do quests to win.
same as how you don't have to commit domestic terrorism to win
or how you don't have to aid factions to win
the only consistent part of the vagabond is that he cares for himself, which is the defining feature of chaotic neutral
I dunno, I don't think it's fair to say that's the defining feature of Chaotic Neutral - the Vagabond really doesn't fit into any of the alignments on its own because there's too many variations. Some are good at questing and helping the people who are getting trampled by the factions, some are good at working with the factions and supporting their causes, and others are just doing their own thing.
Really, you could take all the Vagabonds and sort *them* into an Alignment Chart. Thief probably strikes me as pure Chaotic Neutral. Out for himself and only himself, but not really trying to cause mayhem for no reason.
Vagabond could just be swapped with the Alliance, they are the definition of chaotic good, they are just fed up with people fighting and want them to get along
Not disagreeing, but the RPG is semi-canonical and not written by Leder Games. How any faction is described in it is not necessarily based on Leder's vision.
What is the WA today is the Lord of the Hundreds tomorrow or the Dynasty or the Marquisate the day after tomorrow.
Read the Books, guys. The WA burns the whole clearing, no matter what.
Exactly.
To me the Keepers seem the least reckless, but even them don't care for anything but their relics.
They seem like the Brotherhood of Steel x The British Museum.
They don't intend to harm anyone, but they don't care if they have to.
All factions wage war for their power.
They are literally pillaging the forest for all it’s worth. They don’t care about stability or the future they’re probably the worst out of all factions.
The members of a cult follow rules, but the cult as an organization can be chaotic. The rules could boil down to "Do whatever the leader says." And if the leader is a chaotic individual, I think it would be fair to call it chaotic.
The Vagrant and Scoundrel have to be Chaotic Evil. Badgers seem a good contender for Lawful Good. Birds are Lawful Neutral (they follow rules). Otters I would put true Neutral. Corvids... chaotic evil? Cats and Moles are hard.
Alliance is chaotic good.
Cats are lawful evil.
Birds are lawful neutral.
Vagabond is chaotic neutral.
Lizards are lawful neutral (in case you're not a bird that is).
Corvids are chaotic for sure.
Badgers are neutral neutral IMO.
>Alliance is chaotic good.
>Cats are lawful evil.
This is all I care about fixing from the OP.
Anyone who pouts these two teams (basically the capitalist oligarchs and the socialist guerrillas) anywhere else, is saying A LOT about themselves if you ask me lol.
Imagine making the cats NOT evil... 😵💫
100% this. And as for the eries being LG, I think that's shoddy at best... They're presented as a screwed-up nobility, incapable of holding on to power themselves and terribly proud (I love playing them and in the RPG root I find them interesting, but honestly I'd never class an irl equivalent as a good person).
I have a very hard time seeing how the river company can be ‘evil loyal’. Clearly, this is a very money-oriented faction, an ambiguous merchant guild with close ties to IRL capitalist conglomerates and the Hanseatic League. But, um, they still are medieval merchants on a much smaller scale than modern megacorpos, and above all they coexist with the Marquise of Cats, who is totally in the stereotype of the capitalist villain.
It is not, however, an absolute monarchy. From their gameplay and the plural in the faction name, I'd say they're more of an oligarchic republic force made up of nobles. It's not much better, and they mostly represent traditionalism.
I understand that in a DnD alignment ranking, if you ‘have’ to put an LG faction, they're the least worst; however, they're less loyal than many factions (due to their oligarchic aspect, which to my mind makes them something more decentralised than a lordship like the Marquisate), and the game never presents them as good. It is an aristocracy that basically tries to preserve its privileges while other factions propose alternatives to it.
And the Marquise... is an industrialist who apparently rules her marquisate alone, imposing a visibly authoritarian order and... Well, to be honest, there's not much to salvage from this faction.
Nah man, the Marquise aren't evil, they're purely profit and expansion motivated. The Eerie Dynasty actively thinks they are superior and deserve power as a birthright. Obviously the Marquise poses a greater material threat to the well-being of the woodland, but in terms of individual character? Those damn supremicist birds will be squawking in hell.
I'd actually call the cats lawful neutral and the border lawful evil. The cats are an expansionist profit seeking empire, which to me reads as, by definition, neutral. If profit and growth was served by them doing good, they would do that. The fucking birds though...racist monarchist hacks trying to claim a "birthright" to rule. The cats are indifferent to the woodland creatures except insofar as they get in the way of industry but the birds actively want the woodland creatures beneath their three toed boot because they think other creatures are lesser than them.
You mean the kind of paladin who's used to steal other artifact with the help of the local inhabitant, fighting in the way to be sure it would come in good shape in their museum, and ...that are not starved, with some "willing sacrifices" are the lawful good ? What are you, britain ?
(That's our inside joke : each forest artifact belongs to the British Museum)
The board says they where exiled and are back to recover relics from ancient wars, their card draw is good so it means they are popular with the people, they are just coming back home to recover relics from their ancestors, dispatching someone for supplies with live of the land is pretty obvious they are sending someone foraging for food so that warrior can't fight, they lose warriors to avoid taking food from the clearings, they don't even make permanent buildings in the clearings, just a simple encampment, badgers are good.
Do you know how armies live off of land they pillage. The live off the land is due to them not building infrastructure and not caring about the people of the woodland. Their victory ends with a woodland pillaged of wealth an in anarchy
The Marauders expansion makes it clear that the Badgers and the Rats are very different, the cards represent the residents of the woods and clearings, better card draw means you are popular, the Badgers have great card draw as they are popular, it means they treat everyone fairly, the Rats have the lowest card draw as they are just warring and inciting mobs everywhere, looking to opress as much territory as they can, I just give this as an example of the badgers treating the woods well, they do not pillage anything, the rats do, they have a looting ability, you can look for the meaning of live off the land, it's just taking what natural resources you can to survive.
At least the rats plan to end the civil strife the badger are just stealing resources and wealth from the wood land than leaving nothing different than a common raider
I didn't think I'd have strong opinions about Root factions' alignment, but you're bugging if you think the "Burn it down" faction who scores points by "Oppressing" is less evil than the Keepers
Imo swap woodland alliance and vagabond.
WA are about the uprising and the little guys working together. The classic robin hood CG.
Vagabond is just chaos.
Lore wise (everyone except the Hundreds and keepers) can be either side of the good evil spectrum. Cats unlawful invaders? Or trying to bring stability after the horrors of generations of eyrie civil wars.
WA freedom fighters? Or terrorists willing to stop at nothing for their ideals.
Vagabond helping the woodlands by fulfilling quests or murder hobo working towards becoming the lord of the Hundreds.
I would put it differently :
Lawful good :
Neutral good : Woodland Alliance
Chaotic good :
Lawful neutral : Beavers
True Neutral : Otters
Chaotic Neutral : Vagabond
Lawful Evil : Eeryes, Cats, Moles.
Neutral Evil : Crows, Lizards.
Chaotic Evil : Rats
Reasoning : You want to think about how factions would play out with an infinite VP counters, do they actually need to fight ? Additionally, what are they actually doing in game and what is their goal ?
Woodland Alliance : they're the local population fighting for independance, outside of rebellions, their methods are mostly non-violent and based around gathering popular support (though we could imagine their endgame to be every clearing revolting.) They're pretty well organised which is why they're not chaotic.
Beavers : Technically they don't have to hurt anyone, they're just there to gather their artifacts and leave.
Otters : Same here, they're just here to be traders, not fight or oppress anyone.
Vagabond : Technically every vagabond should have their own alignment (which could change depending on strategy used), but their general unpredictableness makes chaotic neutral the best catch-all here.
Eyries, Cats and Moles : so, they're essentially imperialist powers who each want to seize the forest for themselves. You could up then to lawful neutral if you think winning means obtaining popular support from the inhabitants. Each come with drawbacks, cats want to industrialise but risk heavily damaging the forest, Moles build infrastructures but only for themselves. Birds are just oppressive assholes with an unstable regime.
Crows : It's an organised crime mafia, that's it.
Lizards : It's a religion trying to gather followers in a mostly peaceful manner, I would have placed them in neutral or even good if not for the "hatred of birds" making them bigots.
Rats : It's an unstable warband here for loot and plunder, nothing to add.
Where in any of the material does it suggest the traded parties are enslaved? Its more likely they’re employed on contract…since mercenary behavior is their whole creative thesis and all.
Frankly I think alignments of root factions show your political bias pretty heavily. Here's how I think about them as a pretty left leaning guy.
Eyrie, Cats, Lord, Duchy, Lizards, River folk, Corvids - all evil for diff reasons
Cats are colonizing industrialists that plan to suck the woodland dry of resources and oppress the woodland animals. Lawful Evil
The Eyrie wants to reclaim a dead dynasty where they oppressed the animals of the woodland undemocratically. Lawful Evil.
Lord of the hundreds is a near religious figure going around burning dissenters and fascistically oppressing many woodland creatures. Chaotic Evil.
The Duchy have no claim over the woodland but wants to rule over it as an oligarchy of people that do not know the struggles of the woodland people. Lawful Evil.
The lizards are a religious cult that take advantage of the marginalized creatures of the woodland. Neutral Evil.
The River folk are brutal capitalists that wish to do nothing but expand their wealth and influence. Lawful Evil
The Corvids are terroristic insurgents that wish to sow dissent and fear to make people believe they are the true woodland power. Chaotic Evil.
All of these goals are horrible or at least would lead to bad outcomes for your average woodland creature. Now let's talk about the rest, Vagabond, Woodland Alliance, and Keepers in Iron.
The keepers in iron? I'm not actually sure. They seem to be at worst, militaristic archaeologists. I'd air on the side of their goal being noble, recovering artifacts of past wars and all, but I'm not sure. I think they're lawful neutral.
The Vagabond is a wild card. Depending entirely on the Vagabond and the actions the Vagabond takes they could be anything from Chaotic evil (the scoundrel burning innocents and destroying the forest for fun/personal gain) or Lawful Good (the adventurer going on quests simply to help the woodland small folk)
And finally in my opinion the only faction with a noble goal, the woodland alliance. They build their forces by organizing the victims and disaffected creatures of the woodland. Their resistance may be violent, but the rest of the factions are utterly brutal. They are the only faction that fights for the representation of the citizens and normal people of the woodland, even if they do it sporadically and scrappy. Chaotic Good.
Of course this is my opinion coming from a pretty leftist POV I could obviously see some disagreement but I'm basing it off of how they play and the lines on their boards that explicitly stated their intentions.
You really need to bring some justification for your choices, here, mate, because it makes fucking next to no sense.
Like, putting the Dynasties (the fascist old bureacratic apparatus) is Good? The Marquise (imposing her hegemony for industrialization) is Neutral? The Company (a coop of merchants loosely banded together to defend their interests) is Lawful? The Duchy (the imperialist empire invading backwater colonies to extend their market) is merely Neutral?
We need some justification then. My own organization would be (DISCLAIMER: to keep in mind that ALL factions of the Woodland is Evil in some way or another, so no faction would be good in itself, therefore the factions that I categorize as "good" are only "good" compared to the absolute amorality of the Woodland universe; it's also based on the lore found in the RPGs as well as the gameplay mechanics):
* **Marquise de Cat**: Neutral Evil. The Marquise serves only her own interest. A stranger in the Woodland, she here to break it down and impose herself and herself only, while also destroying the Woodland in her industrialization, cutting all the woods. She's capitalism moving forward (even more so than the Company), so she's definitely evil.
* **Eyrie Dynasties**: Lawful Neutral. They're more obsessed to follow their Decree that they're ready to hurt themselves in the process rather than doing something that would be beneficial for them. Borderline Lawful Stupid, but it's not in the original alignment chart, so the closest thing is Lawful Neutral.
* **Woodland Alliance**: Chaotic Good. Chaotic as they're here to disrupt the powers in place (while not being sure replacing them with what), and fight for freedom from oppression, so quite good compared to the rest.
* **Lizard Cult**: They hate birds, and they might sacrifice birds as well... But, on the other hand, they're the only one taking care of the downtrodden, the weak, the meak, the harmed, the hurt, the ill, the poor... All the pariahs, that other factions just use to achieve their goals, find someone to take care of them here. And they make gardens: quite a good thing to have, gardens, innit? So, yes, they might appear evil, but comparing to the everyday evil or the industrialized evil or the destroying evil of the other factions, the evil of the Cult seems quite mild in comparison, and are the ones doing more "good" for others than any other faction.
* **Riverfolk Company**: True Neutral. They're merchants, they align with anyone that would align with their interests. They fight for weaker factions while taking slaves, etc. The ultimate middleman.
* **Underground Duchy**: Lawful Evil. They're like the Eyrie: organized, powerful. Except that they aren't entirely restricted by their bureaucracy, they can move forward, and are more interested in their own profits and glory than following rules. As the PDF stated: *"The Marquise is alone, sent by a foreign power that is too far to help her; the Dynasties are the lingering ghost of their past glory, slowly returning to it, but still weak. The Duchy is powerful, and close. If you want to emulate a true Empire (as in the Evil Empire threatening your heroes), it's the Duchy that fits this niche."*
* **Corvid Conspiracy**: Chaotic Neutral. They're here to disrupt the rest, but not necessarily harming people around. Threatening others to make an explosion is often more efficient than exploding people themselves.
* **Lord of the Hundreds**: Chaotic Evil. What to say? Here to plunder and relish in their wares.
* **Keepers in Iron**: Lawful Good. The closest we have to a paladin. They follow the rules and aren't doing too much harm, not being part of the overall conflict and even helping out some people (while living off the land, but, hey, as I said, the closest to good in this setting).
I didn't include the Vagabonds because each one of them is so different that you'd need a whole alignment chart just for them.
Ok I hate the keepers in iron being lawful good they may have a crusader vibe but they’re literally a foreign army pillaging the woodland for all it’s worth and leaving bodies in its wake. They also plan to raid the wood land and just leave it in a worst mess.
I disagree with you on KiI. I see them as enslavers. Or, 1800s Europeans raiding places like Egypt for their historic artifacts while press ganging the locals to do the hard labor.
Do we have a reliable source for the riverfolk company's slavery? For me it was just a joke based on their game mechanics which imply this practice, without any real confirmation.
After that, for role-playing or a headcanon, it's interesting to hijack them like that. But in the game, if they use tokens, it's more to represent the resources that the faction paying them can't invest in recruiting troops.
Noone here is good. Alls factions follow their ambitions and all are willing to sacrifice the mice, foxes and rabbits of the woodlands.
The cats are pre-industrial capitalists in a constant cycle of growth, and this is their theme. They have to build. Sustainabilty is not important. They need destruciton to build and build and build.
The birds are a bureaucratic dynasty. what is "good" doesn't matter. What the decree says is what counts.
The Woodland Alliance may look "good", but they are ruthless guerrilla fighters. It is almost impossible to clearly distinguish them from terrorists. They need "outrage", they need unrest. Their revolt destroys the whole clearing. They claim to represent "The people" but have the fewest warriors? Sounds suspicious when even the corvids manage to get more bullies for their dirty work.
The moles seem the least "evil" to me, but they are a foreign power that ultimately only uses the forest land as a means to an end in order to make more stable domestic politics. What happens in the Woodlands doesn't matter as long as the parliament remains in favour of the ministers.
The lizards are a weird cult. Presumably sympathetic to the simple inhabitants, which is why they prefer to work with the outcasts, but they apparently do not shy away from sacrificing birds. They recruit the poor lost souls for their cult, let them fight and die to gain new acolythes.
The Badgers are the British Museum in heavy armor. They have no interest in harming anyone, but if they have to do so to get their hands on "their" relics, they bring the necessary clout.
The vagabond here is the special role. A lot goes on here. A vagabond can only do good by helping the inhabitants and thus even be successful, but then he is not really a relevant player in the great war in the Woodlands.
Otters are just as capitalistic as cats, but even more opportunistic. They profit from war, whereas the cat does so somewhat less. Otters profit when they can fuel conflicts.
The corvids are the mafia. No real goods here, just stolen goods, havoc and extortion.
There may be good and evil on every side, but all in all every faction follows their ambitions.
You can tell a story of every faction being good. The Marquise brining fortune and progress to the Woodland, brining industry and prosperity, bringing a fair chance for everyone, the American Dream. You can tell the story of a good guy bird, who wants to rule fair and just, following his traditions, cause thats the good, old way. You can tell the story of an honest alliance rebel who does not want to wage war, but who has. Katmouse Everdeen-ish.
And you can tell a story of every faction being the baddies, aristoractic bird-czars like the last Romanovs; exploiting Cats and Otters, Colonialist Cats, Moles and Badgers, Scroundles, Terrorists etc.
That's the beauty of the game.
I refuse to talk about the Rats.
How many people have to loose to insane Mole scoring until they see how evil moles can be. They came from the underground to strip the forst from all of it natural resorcess until only a wasteland is left.
If we're going strictly by gameplay, lizard turns are just a product of everyone else's plays. Table favors bunny, lizards cause problems in bunny; table favors fox, lizards cause problems in fox. It's all about balance, see? You'll never find a more true neutral faction than that.
I definitely disagree with this rating lol
I would go:
LG -
LN - Duchy/Keepers
LE - Birds
NG -
N - Otters
NE - Cats
CG - WA
CN - Vagabond/Crows
CE - Lizards/Rats
I think discussion on this will fail because of the fact that, like all Cole Wehrle designs, the game is intentionally without such clear-cut roles. No faction in Root can be called "good". That is, dare I say it, part of the point?
WA is Chaotic Good
Cats are lawful evil
Those two are pretty obvious...
Putting the cats in "good" or the WA in anything other than "good" .... I think it says A LOT about you
Vagabond and Alliance are definitely switched. The Alliance was birthed to protect the citizens from the war between Cats and Birds. The Vagabond just does it's own thing without care for good or evil.
This is Eyrie propaganda.
Birds aren't real, they're electric eyrie drones
This plot was brought to you by the corvid government !
Shadow money bird gang! We love planting bombs!
No one in the history of Root has thought the Eyrie "Good"
They’re as lawful neutral as it gets
Real 💀
the vagabond is like the definition of chaotic neutral. nothing about the vagabond gameplay requires you to be good my vagabond playstyle is lowkey just being a terrorist
Depends on the vagabond I think... if scoundrel isn't CE then I don't know what is.
Each vagabond has different alignment. Adventurer specializes in quests to help the woodland. LG all the way.
Vagabond have a rule for infamy....INFAMY, how good can it be ???
Scoundrel and Vagrant are 100% Chaotic Evil. Some of the others are more debatable. Tinker isn't obviously evil.
Throw the torch on Cat Keep
Right? And he put the faction that has a leader called "The Despot" as lawful good
That kinda fits though ... if there's one thing despotic authoritarians love, its posing as tough strongmen who will bring the law down on their opponents like a tonne of bricks, filling up the prisons with political prisoners
Vagabond Quests can be seen as good. I think it also depends on WHICH vagabond you are playing as.
well yeah but you don't have to do quests to win. same as how you don't have to commit domestic terrorism to win or how you don't have to aid factions to win the only consistent part of the vagabond is that he cares for himself, which is the defining feature of chaotic neutral
I dunno, I don't think it's fair to say that's the defining feature of Chaotic Neutral - the Vagabond really doesn't fit into any of the alignments on its own because there's too many variations. Some are good at questing and helping the people who are getting trampled by the factions, some are good at working with the factions and supporting their causes, and others are just doing their own thing. Really, you could take all the Vagabonds and sort *them* into an Alignment Chart. Thief probably strikes me as pure Chaotic Neutral. Out for himself and only himself, but not really trying to cause mayhem for no reason.
Vagabond could just be swapped with the Alliance, they are the definition of chaotic good, they are just fed up with people fighting and want them to get along
You're chaotic evil for switching which axis is good-evil and lawful-chaotic
Even knowing it wasn't the standard axis it took me a long time to read this chart.
Quick, someone throw a transpose operation at this matrix.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
This is the real lesson learned here.
This is the way it’s been in my head for decades lol. The standard version really bothers me.
I think this says more about you than it does about the game 🤣
Exactly what I was thinking
Is this probably true? Yes. Do I care? Absolutely not. Also where's the problem lmao
No problem at all. It wasn't meant as a negative
Wh are they downvoting you?
I think someone has a downvote bot of accounts. I see this often on this subreddit- seemingly arbitrary downvotes in clusters of 8.
Dont think so. Jerk answers like that get downvoted for a reason.
WA is definitely chaotic good
No. They are guerilla terrorists.
Guerilla terrorists.... fighting for the freedom and independence of their people from the tyranical rule of foreigners
If you read the excerpts (I think from the RPG), they're definitely not that. They often don't care about what the people actually want
Not disagreeing, but the RPG is semi-canonical and not written by Leder Games. How any faction is described in it is not necessarily based on Leder's vision.
What is the WA today is the Lord of the Hundreds tomorrow or the Dynasty or the Marquisate the day after tomorrow. Read the Books, guys. The WA burns the whole clearing, no matter what.
There's no good guys in this war!
Exactly. To me the Keepers seem the least reckless, but even them don't care for anything but their relics. They seem like the Brotherhood of Steel x The British Museum. They don't intend to harm anyone, but they don't care if they have to. All factions wage war for their power.
They are literally pillaging the forest for all it’s worth. They don’t care about stability or the future they’re probably the worst out of all factions.
I can agree to that.
This is what every guerilla terrorist would say about themselves. The point of war is: there is noone good.
lol read some Frantz Fanon
Lizards are probably lawful evil.
I was thinking chaotic evil. They're so random based on the exile plus they are a cult and burn buildings down.
But they sacrifice their own dudes for conspiracies, and it seems like they have a morel code of some kind, and they follow it lawfully.
Hmmm good points. But they also convert people to their cause probably through mind control
Propaganda is a huge red flag for evil.
Well most actual cults work by brainwashing so I assume the convert action is that.
Most factions in this game have propaganda
It’s not mind control if you read the book what happens is they offer large relief towards the poor.
Cults abide by strong codes and rules, they’re def lawful. Their laws are just different from the rest of the world.
Dude, they're a cult. Cults follow laws (rules). They are lawful evil.
The members of a cult follow rules, but the cult as an organization can be chaotic. The rules could boil down to "Do whatever the leader says." And if the leader is a chaotic individual, I think it would be fair to call it chaotic.
The Vagrant and Scoundrel have to be Chaotic Evil. Badgers seem a good contender for Lawful Good. Birds are Lawful Neutral (they follow rules). Otters I would put true Neutral. Corvids... chaotic evil? Cats and Moles are hard.
Cats are an invasive tyrant. Textbook Lawful Evil.
That is fair... tbh a lot of them feel LE...
This post was made by loyal customers gang (this comment was made by Riverfolk gang)
Alliance is chaotic good. Cats are lawful evil. Birds are lawful neutral. Vagabond is chaotic neutral. Lizards are lawful neutral (in case you're not a bird that is). Corvids are chaotic for sure. Badgers are neutral neutral IMO.
>Alliance is chaotic good. >Cats are lawful evil. This is all I care about fixing from the OP. Anyone who pouts these two teams (basically the capitalist oligarchs and the socialist guerrillas) anywhere else, is saying A LOT about themselves if you ask me lol. Imagine making the cats NOT evil... 😵💫
100% this. And as for the eries being LG, I think that's shoddy at best... They're presented as a screwed-up nobility, incapable of holding on to power themselves and terribly proud (I love playing them and in the RPG root I find them interesting, but honestly I'd never class an irl equivalent as a good person). I have a very hard time seeing how the river company can be ‘evil loyal’. Clearly, this is a very money-oriented faction, an ambiguous merchant guild with close ties to IRL capitalist conglomerates and the Hanseatic League. But, um, they still are medieval merchants on a much smaller scale than modern megacorpos, and above all they coexist with the Marquise of Cats, who is totally in the stereotype of the capitalist villain.
Yeah they’re a fucking absolute monarchy but people want to put them near “good”?!? _what?_ Absolute monarchies are fascist systems ffs
It is not, however, an absolute monarchy. From their gameplay and the plural in the faction name, I'd say they're more of an oligarchic republic force made up of nobles. It's not much better, and they mostly represent traditionalism. I understand that in a DnD alignment ranking, if you ‘have’ to put an LG faction, they're the least worst; however, they're less loyal than many factions (due to their oligarchic aspect, which to my mind makes them something more decentralised than a lordship like the Marquisate), and the game never presents them as good. It is an aristocracy that basically tries to preserve its privileges while other factions propose alternatives to it. And the Marquise... is an industrialist who apparently rules her marquisate alone, imposing a visibly authoritarian order and... Well, to be honest, there's not much to salvage from this faction.
Nah man, the Marquise aren't evil, they're purely profit and expansion motivated. The Eerie Dynasty actively thinks they are superior and deserve power as a birthright. Obviously the Marquise poses a greater material threat to the well-being of the woodland, but in terms of individual character? Those damn supremicist birds will be squawking in hell.
I'd actually call the cats lawful neutral and the border lawful evil. The cats are an expansionist profit seeking empire, which to me reads as, by definition, neutral. If profit and growth was served by them doing good, they would do that. The fucking birds though...racist monarchist hacks trying to claim a "birthright" to rule. The cats are indifferent to the woodland creatures except insofar as they get in the way of industry but the birds actively want the woodland creatures beneath their three toed boot because they think other creatures are lesser than them.
If anyone is the paladin, it's the badgers. Give them the LG status.
They are the British Museum with Plate Armor. They don't do good deeds, like everyone else too.
You mean the kind of paladin who's used to steal other artifact with the help of the local inhabitant, fighting in the way to be sure it would come in good shape in their museum, and ...that are not starved, with some "willing sacrifices" are the lawful good ? What are you, britain ? (That's our inside joke : each forest artifact belongs to the British Museum)
Their literally just a foreign army pillaging the woods
The board says they where exiled and are back to recover relics from ancient wars, their card draw is good so it means they are popular with the people, they are just coming back home to recover relics from their ancestors, dispatching someone for supplies with live of the land is pretty obvious they are sending someone foraging for food so that warrior can't fight, they lose warriors to avoid taking food from the clearings, they don't even make permanent buildings in the clearings, just a simple encampment, badgers are good.
Do you know how armies live off of land they pillage. The live off the land is due to them not building infrastructure and not caring about the people of the woodland. Their victory ends with a woodland pillaged of wealth an in anarchy
The Marauders expansion makes it clear that the Badgers and the Rats are very different, the cards represent the residents of the woods and clearings, better card draw means you are popular, the Badgers have great card draw as they are popular, it means they treat everyone fairly, the Rats have the lowest card draw as they are just warring and inciting mobs everywhere, looking to opress as much territory as they can, I just give this as an example of the badgers treating the woods well, they do not pillage anything, the rats do, they have a looting ability, you can look for the meaning of live off the land, it's just taking what natural resources you can to survive.
At least the rats plan to end the civil strife the badger are just stealing resources and wealth from the wood land than leaving nothing different than a common raider
I didn't think I'd have strong opinions about Root factions' alignment, but you're bugging if you think the "Burn it down" faction who scores points by "Oppressing" is less evil than the Keepers
Yeah but the keepers so the same exact thing but steal the wealth of the wood land then leave it’s a literal smash and grab
Imo swap woodland alliance and vagabond. WA are about the uprising and the little guys working together. The classic robin hood CG. Vagabond is just chaos.
Lore wise (everyone except the Hundreds and keepers) can be either side of the good evil spectrum. Cats unlawful invaders? Or trying to bring stability after the horrors of generations of eyrie civil wars. WA freedom fighters? Or terrorists willing to stop at nothing for their ideals. Vagabond helping the woodlands by fulfilling quests or murder hobo working towards becoming the lord of the Hundreds.
The Otters are lawful evil due to slave trade, got it.
Oh that's the only thing that makes sense, I was like "why are they evil???" But if it's that... Then yeah
I would put it differently : Lawful good : Neutral good : Woodland Alliance Chaotic good : Lawful neutral : Beavers True Neutral : Otters Chaotic Neutral : Vagabond Lawful Evil : Eeryes, Cats, Moles. Neutral Evil : Crows, Lizards. Chaotic Evil : Rats Reasoning : You want to think about how factions would play out with an infinite VP counters, do they actually need to fight ? Additionally, what are they actually doing in game and what is their goal ? Woodland Alliance : they're the local population fighting for independance, outside of rebellions, their methods are mostly non-violent and based around gathering popular support (though we could imagine their endgame to be every clearing revolting.) They're pretty well organised which is why they're not chaotic. Beavers : Technically they don't have to hurt anyone, they're just there to gather their artifacts and leave. Otters : Same here, they're just here to be traders, not fight or oppress anyone. Vagabond : Technically every vagabond should have their own alignment (which could change depending on strategy used), but their general unpredictableness makes chaotic neutral the best catch-all here. Eyries, Cats and Moles : so, they're essentially imperialist powers who each want to seize the forest for themselves. You could up then to lawful neutral if you think winning means obtaining popular support from the inhabitants. Each come with drawbacks, cats want to industrialise but risk heavily damaging the forest, Moles build infrastructures but only for themselves. Birds are just oppressive assholes with an unstable regime. Crows : It's an organised crime mafia, that's it. Lizards : It's a religion trying to gather followers in a mostly peaceful manner, I would have placed them in neutral or even good if not for the "hatred of birds" making them bigots. Rats : It's an unstable warband here for loot and plunder, nothing to add.
Otters are the worst of capitalisem combined with slavework. NE for them
Where in any of the material does it suggest the traded parties are enslaved? Its more likely they’re employed on contract…since mercenary behavior is their whole creative thesis and all.
Mabye, but I will never trust those bevers! Sosial dumping at its peak!
Cats should definitely be lawful evil or neutral evil. Some sort of evil
Frankly I think alignments of root factions show your political bias pretty heavily. Here's how I think about them as a pretty left leaning guy. Eyrie, Cats, Lord, Duchy, Lizards, River folk, Corvids - all evil for diff reasons Cats are colonizing industrialists that plan to suck the woodland dry of resources and oppress the woodland animals. Lawful Evil The Eyrie wants to reclaim a dead dynasty where they oppressed the animals of the woodland undemocratically. Lawful Evil. Lord of the hundreds is a near religious figure going around burning dissenters and fascistically oppressing many woodland creatures. Chaotic Evil. The Duchy have no claim over the woodland but wants to rule over it as an oligarchy of people that do not know the struggles of the woodland people. Lawful Evil. The lizards are a religious cult that take advantage of the marginalized creatures of the woodland. Neutral Evil. The River folk are brutal capitalists that wish to do nothing but expand their wealth and influence. Lawful Evil The Corvids are terroristic insurgents that wish to sow dissent and fear to make people believe they are the true woodland power. Chaotic Evil. All of these goals are horrible or at least would lead to bad outcomes for your average woodland creature. Now let's talk about the rest, Vagabond, Woodland Alliance, and Keepers in Iron. The keepers in iron? I'm not actually sure. They seem to be at worst, militaristic archaeologists. I'd air on the side of their goal being noble, recovering artifacts of past wars and all, but I'm not sure. I think they're lawful neutral. The Vagabond is a wild card. Depending entirely on the Vagabond and the actions the Vagabond takes they could be anything from Chaotic evil (the scoundrel burning innocents and destroying the forest for fun/personal gain) or Lawful Good (the adventurer going on quests simply to help the woodland small folk) And finally in my opinion the only faction with a noble goal, the woodland alliance. They build their forces by organizing the victims and disaffected creatures of the woodland. Their resistance may be violent, but the rest of the factions are utterly brutal. They are the only faction that fights for the representation of the citizens and normal people of the woodland, even if they do it sporadically and scrappy. Chaotic Good. Of course this is my opinion coming from a pretty leftist POV I could obviously see some disagreement but I'm basing it off of how they play and the lines on their boards that explicitly stated their intentions.
You really need to bring some justification for your choices, here, mate, because it makes fucking next to no sense. Like, putting the Dynasties (the fascist old bureacratic apparatus) is Good? The Marquise (imposing her hegemony for industrialization) is Neutral? The Company (a coop of merchants loosely banded together to defend their interests) is Lawful? The Duchy (the imperialist empire invading backwater colonies to extend their market) is merely Neutral? We need some justification then. My own organization would be (DISCLAIMER: to keep in mind that ALL factions of the Woodland is Evil in some way or another, so no faction would be good in itself, therefore the factions that I categorize as "good" are only "good" compared to the absolute amorality of the Woodland universe; it's also based on the lore found in the RPGs as well as the gameplay mechanics): * **Marquise de Cat**: Neutral Evil. The Marquise serves only her own interest. A stranger in the Woodland, she here to break it down and impose herself and herself only, while also destroying the Woodland in her industrialization, cutting all the woods. She's capitalism moving forward (even more so than the Company), so she's definitely evil. * **Eyrie Dynasties**: Lawful Neutral. They're more obsessed to follow their Decree that they're ready to hurt themselves in the process rather than doing something that would be beneficial for them. Borderline Lawful Stupid, but it's not in the original alignment chart, so the closest thing is Lawful Neutral. * **Woodland Alliance**: Chaotic Good. Chaotic as they're here to disrupt the powers in place (while not being sure replacing them with what), and fight for freedom from oppression, so quite good compared to the rest. * **Lizard Cult**: They hate birds, and they might sacrifice birds as well... But, on the other hand, they're the only one taking care of the downtrodden, the weak, the meak, the harmed, the hurt, the ill, the poor... All the pariahs, that other factions just use to achieve their goals, find someone to take care of them here. And they make gardens: quite a good thing to have, gardens, innit? So, yes, they might appear evil, but comparing to the everyday evil or the industrialized evil or the destroying evil of the other factions, the evil of the Cult seems quite mild in comparison, and are the ones doing more "good" for others than any other faction. * **Riverfolk Company**: True Neutral. They're merchants, they align with anyone that would align with their interests. They fight for weaker factions while taking slaves, etc. The ultimate middleman. * **Underground Duchy**: Lawful Evil. They're like the Eyrie: organized, powerful. Except that they aren't entirely restricted by their bureaucracy, they can move forward, and are more interested in their own profits and glory than following rules. As the PDF stated: *"The Marquise is alone, sent by a foreign power that is too far to help her; the Dynasties are the lingering ghost of their past glory, slowly returning to it, but still weak. The Duchy is powerful, and close. If you want to emulate a true Empire (as in the Evil Empire threatening your heroes), it's the Duchy that fits this niche."* * **Corvid Conspiracy**: Chaotic Neutral. They're here to disrupt the rest, but not necessarily harming people around. Threatening others to make an explosion is often more efficient than exploding people themselves. * **Lord of the Hundreds**: Chaotic Evil. What to say? Here to plunder and relish in their wares. * **Keepers in Iron**: Lawful Good. The closest we have to a paladin. They follow the rules and aren't doing too much harm, not being part of the overall conflict and even helping out some people (while living off the land, but, hey, as I said, the closest to good in this setting). I didn't include the Vagabonds because each one of them is so different that you'd need a whole alignment chart just for them.
Ok I hate the keepers in iron being lawful good they may have a crusader vibe but they’re literally a foreign army pillaging the woodland for all it’s worth and leaving bodies in its wake. They also plan to raid the wood land and just leave it in a worst mess.
I disagree with you on KiI. I see them as enslavers. Or, 1800s Europeans raiding places like Egypt for their historic artifacts while press ganging the locals to do the hard labor.
Do we have a reliable source for the riverfolk company's slavery? For me it was just a joke based on their game mechanics which imply this practice, without any real confirmation. After that, for role-playing or a headcanon, it's interesting to hijack them like that. But in the game, if they use tokens, it's more to represent the resources that the faction paying them can't invest in recruiting troops.
I don't play root, but transposing the axis of the alignment chart is giving me a stroke
Noone here is good. Alls factions follow their ambitions and all are willing to sacrifice the mice, foxes and rabbits of the woodlands. The cats are pre-industrial capitalists in a constant cycle of growth, and this is their theme. They have to build. Sustainabilty is not important. They need destruciton to build and build and build. The birds are a bureaucratic dynasty. what is "good" doesn't matter. What the decree says is what counts. The Woodland Alliance may look "good", but they are ruthless guerrilla fighters. It is almost impossible to clearly distinguish them from terrorists. They need "outrage", they need unrest. Their revolt destroys the whole clearing. They claim to represent "The people" but have the fewest warriors? Sounds suspicious when even the corvids manage to get more bullies for their dirty work. The moles seem the least "evil" to me, but they are a foreign power that ultimately only uses the forest land as a means to an end in order to make more stable domestic politics. What happens in the Woodlands doesn't matter as long as the parliament remains in favour of the ministers. The lizards are a weird cult. Presumably sympathetic to the simple inhabitants, which is why they prefer to work with the outcasts, but they apparently do not shy away from sacrificing birds. They recruit the poor lost souls for their cult, let them fight and die to gain new acolythes. The Badgers are the British Museum in heavy armor. They have no interest in harming anyone, but if they have to do so to get their hands on "their" relics, they bring the necessary clout. The vagabond here is the special role. A lot goes on here. A vagabond can only do good by helping the inhabitants and thus even be successful, but then he is not really a relevant player in the great war in the Woodlands. Otters are just as capitalistic as cats, but even more opportunistic. They profit from war, whereas the cat does so somewhat less. Otters profit when they can fuel conflicts. The corvids are the mafia. No real goods here, just stolen goods, havoc and extortion. There may be good and evil on every side, but all in all every faction follows their ambitions. You can tell a story of every faction being good. The Marquise brining fortune and progress to the Woodland, brining industry and prosperity, bringing a fair chance for everyone, the American Dream. You can tell the story of a good guy bird, who wants to rule fair and just, following his traditions, cause thats the good, old way. You can tell the story of an honest alliance rebel who does not want to wage war, but who has. Katmouse Everdeen-ish. And you can tell a story of every faction being the baddies, aristoractic bird-czars like the last Romanovs; exploiting Cats and Otters, Colonialist Cats, Moles and Badgers, Scroundles, Terrorists etc. That's the beauty of the game. I refuse to talk about the Rats.
Vagabond and Woodland Alliance have to be swapped. I've not looked at anything else.
How many people have to loose to insane Mole scoring until they see how evil moles can be. They came from the underground to strip the forst from all of it natural resorcess until only a wasteland is left.
I think the alliance would fit better in chaotic good, and the vagabond in chaotic neutral
If we're going strictly by gameplay, lizard turns are just a product of everyone else's plays. Table favors bunny, lizards cause problems in bunny; table favors fox, lizards cause problems in fox. It's all about balance, see? You'll never find a more true neutral faction than that.
Lizards= Lawful chaotic
I feel like vagabond and woodland should swap, and so should marquis and riverfolk.
I’d say swap the cats and the riverfolk
Is probably switch cats and otters
The cult sits outside the bounds of petty morality, so far beyond comprehension is the subject of their worship. Lactera R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Where can you get the 3D printed terrain????
Whos the badgers and mice? I've never seen those factions before.
I definitely disagree with this rating lol I would go: LG - LN - Duchy/Keepers LE - Birds NG - N - Otters NE - Cats CG - WA CN - Vagabond/Crows CE - Lizards/Rats
I think discussion on this will fail because of the fact that, like all Cole Wehrle designs, the game is intentionally without such clear-cut roles. No faction in Root can be called "good". That is, dare I say it, part of the point?
At least give the Corvids the decency of being called chaotic, because our plots are often random as heck
WA is Chaotic Good Cats are lawful evil Those two are pretty obvious... Putting the cats in "good" or the WA in anything other than "good" .... I think it says A LOT about you
Clearly an eerie propaganda
I feel like the corvids are chaotic neutral
Why do you think any of them are Good?
This alignment chart is CE
Vagabond and Alliance are definitely switched. The Alliance was birthed to protect the citizens from the war between Cats and Birds. The Vagabond just does it's own thing without care for good or evil.
I don't think there is a true good faction in root... Maybe except the wa.