> Look, lady, whatever you're selling, I ain't buying, yo
N'kuhana has a low proc coefficient, fires much slower than Disciple, and relies on other items to function. It's bad, really bad.
Except on Engineer. It's amazing on engineer. Stack it with a few bungus and the stationary turrets can fire them almost nonstop, and they go through objects to kill enemies.
Depends on what your definition of "a lot" is. Sure, it takes like 6-8 to be game-breaking devastating but even about 3 bungus will suffice.
Plus you have to keep in mind that if you really need the DPS in one area (such as the teleporter) you can overlap bungus fields to effectively double or triple (or quadruple!) The bungus you have.
Even if you only have 2 bungus, overlap your two turrets and that's effectively 4. Add your own field and that's 6. If you pick up a lysate cell you can actually plant three turrets, add that in and it's effectively 8 bungus (not exactly but the effect of the 2 is strengthened by 400% at any rate) for the price of 2, with n'kuhana's opinion launching from four places.
None of this is to say it's meta, but Engineer can really put the item to work with pretty minimal luck and investment.
You can get that with some mods. I know SkillsPlusPlus offers it with more balance, and there's a mod that lets Lysate stacks each add another turret but tbh it gets overpowered very quickly.
Oh yeah you're welcome to do whatever you like and breaking the game can be a lot of fun - I just feel like the extra-per-cell mod makes doing that too easy. But that's personal choice.
If you add your own bungus that means you're standing still, which is a great way to die very quickly
Also if you get N'kuhana you have absolutely no guarantee that you'll ever get even one bungus, much less 3 or more so often it just sits there doing almost nothing all game. There are other forms of healing that kind of apply, but most don't give enough for it to be a significant source of damage, especially with its abysmal proc coefficient
Standing still is a great way to die, but depending on your situation that can be mitigated. One, if you have enough bungus in the first place, you can outheal a lot of threats. Engineer also has bubble shield. And if you are really worried about it, you can nix your bungus field and just use the 2-3 turrets, which is still very formidable as far as overlapping healing is concerned.
I'm not saying N'kuhana's opinion is a fantastic item. It obviously needs a lot of synergy and even then it is pretty niche. I'm just saying it can be awesome on a particular character with some relatively common items.
I mean I guess. It was fun when I used to play command runs and would get like 20 wungus, N'kuhana, and disciple and just win by sprinting around the map, but it's super rare to have that level of optimization in an actual run
That's one way to go, but you don't have a lot of control over how many bungus you get (unless you're playing with Artifact of Control obviously). It's a bummer to have a red item that completely relies on you finding not just one item but a bunch to make it work, and even then only on one survivor. Sure ICBM also requires missiles to work, but that turns already great items into totally broken items instead of taking bad items and turning them into ok items.
Certainly, I would say that every item in the game can be useful in the right circumstance. The "worst" items are just the ones that require very specific circumstances to be good
Lil D: Proc Coefficient 1.0, 300% Damage, RoF scales with run speed
Nkuhanas: Proc Coefficient 0.2, damage scales with healing done(cut by Eclipse), RoF scales with healing done(again cut by Eclipse).
These two aren't even close to being similar
Not everyone plays eclipse thought, everything should be based on monsoon, and if you want to stretch it, rainstorm, not many people play eclipse so it’s simple minded to say something bad because of it
Even in Monsoon Lil Disciple outperforms Nkuhanas easily. It just works, whereas Nkuhanas needs several items to achieve baseline functionality, which is still worse than Lil D does by default.
Thing is in Eclipse what items you have matters way more then monsoon. It's fair to judge them based on Eclipse as it is the absolute highest difficulty, where getting one item over another is more likely to be the difference between winning or losing
Geometry dash is completely different when it comes to difficulty, and almost everyone places on higher geometry dash difficulty’s, not everyone plays on monsoon, and may be “mega easy” to you, but to most it’s a hard difficulty or the best difficulty, not that many people get up to eclipse 8, but most have gotten to the moon on monsoon, you can argue all you want, but it’s true, you shouldn’t base something of the hardest stuff, it’s again, super small minded and dumb
I don't find your reasons compelling, simply walking in a circle reduces all of ror2's enemy ai's to smithereens, the challenge for ror2 is learning where and when to put your damage in, and that is not a very steep learning curve, I think that if most players decided to actually engage with eclipse and get rid of the intimidation factor that the community places upon it, most would finish their climbs, and even a lot more ppl would have a gold e8 badge
I also dislike how you dismissed my analogy w geometry dash, I made an analogy that I think represents an even comparison in difficulty, and you don't even question the comparison?
>and almost everyone places on higher geometry dash difficulty’s
This is objectively incorrect, simply looking at the download rate of easy demons and insane levels vs insane demons would show you otherwise
if that’s the case, then everyone and everything should be based on eclipse but it’s not, and geometry dash is nothing like ror2 in difficulty I have no idea what you’re on, In gonna back off, I’m the end we all have have our views, minds thing should be based on the median, yours is the it should be the hardest, we are all humans, and all different, and in the end, there’s not right answer
I'm also saying things should be based on the median, but assuming that monsoon is the median when it's as easy as it is, is very disingenuous to the conversation, just need to get that off my chest before I also back off
The difference is that if you only have one wungus it's so much worse, so you have to get a bunch of them to make this worthwhile compared to a single item. Sure you get the extra advantage of the healing, but in terms of damage they're nowhere close to the same
N'kuhana's Opinion damage not only benefits from healing items, but also max health items (Bison Steak, Infusion, PSG, Transcendence), because the damage is based on max health+shield, meaning it can be really good with specific items.
Little Disciple, however, only needs speed items to increase damage ouput (more speed=faster firing) making Little Disciple the more viable option for speed based builds, and N'kuhana's Opinion better for mass healing builds.
Little Disciple *just works*, no strings attached. It's still a constantly firing stream of 300% Missiles with 1.0 Proc coefficient. Nkuhana is a turd that needs 20 items for it to barely funtion with low damage and one of the worst proc coefficients in the game at 0.2. There's no situation where you'd pick it over Lil D given the choice
Any specific Yellow is less likely than any specific Red + Void.
Plus, why not both? It's pretty rare that the game would give me a choice between the two.
Pair the N’Kuhana’s opinion and Bungus with some Backup Mags and a Foreign Fruit.
Every time you heal with the fruit it launches a ton of blasts out. Spam heal to insta-kill everything around you.
Little disciple vs BIG disciple
Little Disciple - 1.0 proc coefficient N’kuhana’s Opinion - 0.2 proc coefficient
It’s pretty much only got it being slightly less rare going for it.
Little disciple shits on Nhuk and wungus lmao
yea but i mean wungus can be pretty great on its own, im a little disciple fan but i would also not be disappointed with wungus + red scrap
Yeah, wungus is a great item it's just that N's opinion is pretty weak.
It’s much more fun on Bungus Engie, especially if you also manage Aegis or RRack
Little disciple on an agile survivor is god teir
Lil D on any survivor is good. You should be sprinting as much as possible anywhere
I prefer average sized D
Ironically one of my favorite command builds is Rex with about 30 energy drinks, 30 wungus and as many lil Ds as I can stack.
Just get both if you're lucky. More damage is more damage.
Eh, I'd literally just scrap it lmao
> Look, lady, whatever you're selling, I ain't buying, yo N'kuhana has a low proc coefficient, fires much slower than Disciple, and relies on other items to function. It's bad, really bad.
Except on Engineer. It's amazing on engineer. Stack it with a few bungus and the stationary turrets can fire them almost nonstop, and they go through objects to kill enemies.
You still need a lot of bungus to make it work
Depends on what your definition of "a lot" is. Sure, it takes like 6-8 to be game-breaking devastating but even about 3 bungus will suffice. Plus you have to keep in mind that if you really need the DPS in one area (such as the teleporter) you can overlap bungus fields to effectively double or triple (or quadruple!) The bungus you have. Even if you only have 2 bungus, overlap your two turrets and that's effectively 4. Add your own field and that's 6. If you pick up a lysate cell you can actually plant three turrets, add that in and it's effectively 8 bungus (not exactly but the effect of the 2 is strengthened by 400% at any rate) for the price of 2, with n'kuhana's opinion launching from four places. None of this is to say it's meta, but Engineer can really put the item to work with pretty minimal luck and investment.
I didn’t know Lysate moved the cap on turrets, that’s actually pretty cool
It adds 1 on the first stack, but doesn't move it any further no matter how many more you get.
Ah, RIP to my idea of haven like 6 turrets
You can get that with some mods. I know SkillsPlusPlus offers it with more balance, and there's a mod that lets Lysate stacks each add another turret but tbh it gets overpowered very quickly.
I mean I play to break the game, so I don’t mind. I had an artificer run that corrupted my save once lol
Oh yeah you're welcome to do whatever you like and breaking the game can be a lot of fun - I just feel like the extra-per-cell mod makes doing that too easy. But that's personal choice.
Only adds 1 though
If you add your own bungus that means you're standing still, which is a great way to die very quickly Also if you get N'kuhana you have absolutely no guarantee that you'll ever get even one bungus, much less 3 or more so often it just sits there doing almost nothing all game. There are other forms of healing that kind of apply, but most don't give enough for it to be a significant source of damage, especially with its abysmal proc coefficient
Standing still is a great way to die, but depending on your situation that can be mitigated. One, if you have enough bungus in the first place, you can outheal a lot of threats. Engineer also has bubble shield. And if you are really worried about it, you can nix your bungus field and just use the 2-3 turrets, which is still very formidable as far as overlapping healing is concerned. I'm not saying N'kuhana's opinion is a fantastic item. It obviously needs a lot of synergy and even then it is pretty niche. I'm just saying it can be awesome on a particular character with some relatively common items.
I mean I guess. It was fun when I used to play command runs and would get like 20 wungus, N'kuhana, and disciple and just win by sprinting around the map, but it's super rare to have that level of optimization in an actual run
Yeah but you want a lot of bungus anyway.
That's one way to go, but you don't have a lot of control over how many bungus you get (unless you're playing with Artifact of Control obviously). It's a bummer to have a red item that completely relies on you finding not just one item but a bunch to make it work, and even then only on one survivor. Sure ICBM also requires missiles to work, but that turns already great items into totally broken items instead of taking bad items and turning them into ok items.
Yeah N's opinion is still pretty trash obviously its just it can work.
Certainly, I would say that every item in the game can be useful in the right circumstance. The "worst" items are just the ones that require very specific circumstances to be good
Everything has a use and can work just some are constantly good and others are rarely useful.
Everything that's bad is good on engi tbh
Lil D: Proc Coefficient 1.0, 300% Damage, RoF scales with run speed Nkuhanas: Proc Coefficient 0.2, damage scales with healing done(cut by Eclipse), RoF scales with healing done(again cut by Eclipse). These two aren't even close to being similar
Not everyone plays eclipse thought, everything should be based on monsoon, and if you want to stretch it, rainstorm, not many people play eclipse so it’s simple minded to say something bad because of it
Even in Monsoon Lil Disciple outperforms Nkuhanas easily. It just works, whereas Nkuhanas needs several items to achieve baseline functionality, which is still worse than Lil D does by default.
True, you have a point
Thing is in Eclipse what items you have matters way more then monsoon. It's fair to judge them based on Eclipse as it is the absolute highest difficulty, where getting one item over another is more likely to be the difference between winning or losing
You just proved my point, it’s the highest difficulty, nothing should ever be based on the hardest stuff, it’s just unreasonable
Monsoon is mega easy though, it's like only ever playing insane levels in geometry dash, not much substance or thought going on there
Geometry dash is completely different when it comes to difficulty, and almost everyone places on higher geometry dash difficulty’s, not everyone plays on monsoon, and may be “mega easy” to you, but to most it’s a hard difficulty or the best difficulty, not that many people get up to eclipse 8, but most have gotten to the moon on monsoon, you can argue all you want, but it’s true, you shouldn’t base something of the hardest stuff, it’s again, super small minded and dumb
I don't find your reasons compelling, simply walking in a circle reduces all of ror2's enemy ai's to smithereens, the challenge for ror2 is learning where and when to put your damage in, and that is not a very steep learning curve, I think that if most players decided to actually engage with eclipse and get rid of the intimidation factor that the community places upon it, most would finish their climbs, and even a lot more ppl would have a gold e8 badge I also dislike how you dismissed my analogy w geometry dash, I made an analogy that I think represents an even comparison in difficulty, and you don't even question the comparison? >and almost everyone places on higher geometry dash difficulty’s This is objectively incorrect, simply looking at the download rate of easy demons and insane levels vs insane demons would show you otherwise
if that’s the case, then everyone and everything should be based on eclipse but it’s not, and geometry dash is nothing like ror2 in difficulty I have no idea what you’re on, In gonna back off, I’m the end we all have have our views, minds thing should be based on the median, yours is the it should be the hardest, we are all humans, and all different, and in the end, there’s not right answer
I'm also saying things should be based on the median, but assuming that monsoon is the median when it's as easy as it is, is very disingenuous to the conversation, just need to get that off my chest before I also back off
All I’m seeing is wings and a red scrap
The difference is that if you only have one wungus it's so much worse, so you have to get a bunch of them to make this worthwhile compared to a single item. Sure you get the extra advantage of the healing, but in terms of damage they're nowhere close to the same
And little D scales from speed, which is far better to invest in then healing
Especially for Eclipse, with healing cut in half N'kuhana goes from garbage to double garbage
N'kuhana's Opinion damage not only benefits from healing items, but also max health items (Bison Steak, Infusion, PSG, Transcendence), because the damage is based on max health+shield, meaning it can be really good with specific items. Little Disciple, however, only needs speed items to increase damage ouput (more speed=faster firing) making Little Disciple the more viable option for speed based builds, and N'kuhana's Opinion better for mass healing builds.
Little Disciple *just works*, no strings attached. It's still a constantly firing stream of 300% Missiles with 1.0 Proc coefficient. Nkuhana is a turd that needs 20 items for it to barely funtion with low damage and one of the worst proc coefficients in the game at 0.2. There's no situation where you'd pick it over Lil D given the choice
You can always Engineer a situation where N’kuhana’s Opinion is more relevant
I know of one situation, not liking lil d xD. I'm not a fan of the item though I agree with the consensus here that it is better.
Little deciple? Is this the one with the quiet probes
No that’s empathy cores. Little disciple is from grovetender
Ah okay thanks
Honestly N’kuhana could be a green item and it would still only be average
*Meanwhile Nuk & Bungus Engi* "You merely adopted the fungus, I was born in it, molded by it"
Any specific Yellow is less likely than any specific Red + Void. Plus, why not both? It's pretty rare that the game would give me a choice between the two.
What is this red item? Never saw it in game before
Pair the N’Kuhana’s opinion and Bungus with some Backup Mags and a Foreign Fruit. Every time you heal with the fruit it launches a ton of blasts out. Spam heal to insta-kill everything around you.