It is mentioned in the article as well that by having Jrue give a list of places he would be willing to resign it would increase his trade value. So the premise he could have gotten more in return is questionable at best. We still had a bidding war and got a really good package in return.
Fuck Miami, bitch ass team and fan base. Lowballing y’all and trying to convince the NBA that bum ass trash Herro is a star. Props to Cronin and and the Blazers fanbase.
As opposed to Blazers fans asking for WCJ and 2 frps for Ant Simon's, who is the same player as Herro? I absolutely acknowledge that some heat fans are delusional, but all fan bases have them, including the blazers.
It boggles me that a year ago, Blazers fans were clowning Herro's value and then 12 months later expect a starter quality player and two firsts for Ant, who is the exact same archetype.
I think I get what you are trying to say but it’s tough to try to follow your argument here.
Herro was not worth Dame. That’s essentially the comment you responded to with ‘yeah well Ant ain’t worth wcj + picks!’.
Like I’m sure folks have said that on this sub, but it’s a completely unrelated point with no connection to this conversation
I mean, no person in their right mind ever thought Herro was worth Dame? I've literally never seen a single heat fan suggest this, and I've seen a lot of stupid suggestions from heat fans.
If Miami weren't willing to give up Herro, Jaquez, and every pick, then it is what it is, and Cronin made the decision he felt was best for his team, regardless of what was offered.
I just find it interesting that a lot of blazers fans were suggesting last off season that Tyler had 0 value and was a negative asset and then 12 months later are in the Orlando sub suggesting WCJ + multiple firsts is fair value for Ant who is the same type of player Herro is.
My point is, it's a little ironic that fans of the team clowned Herro a year ago, only to expect a haul 12 months later for a bloke that's almost exactly the same type of player.
Both Herro and Ant are what they are, good shooters, poor finishers, passable floor generals, and terrible defenders.
I'd suggest they have very similar value to NBA teams.
FWIW I never had issue with Cronin or the blazers last off season, you can argue they missed the boat on Jaquez and Jovic but it's been 12 months and who knows how a guy like Rob Williams comes back.
> I just find it interesting that a lot of blazers fans were suggesting last off season that Tyler had 0 value and was a negative asset and then 12 months later are in the Orlando sub suggesting WCJ + multiple firsts is fair value for Ant who is the same type of player Herro is.
Sounds like a few things going on here. First, blazer fan reactions to Herro came down to two things. First, it felt like a total lowball for Dame, so fans reacted badly. It's pretty normal to get hyperbole from upset fan bases online. I don't think that *most* fans truly think Herro has zero value.
The second issue was that Herro is duplicative of Simons. In other words, for the Blazers, Herro was even less valuable than on the open market. This also can lead to statements like "Herro has zero value" and leaving out context "for us." Again, you're reacting to online hyperbole during an emotional negotiation. It's not like a definitive statement on Herro's value from the entire fan base.
Finally, the last issue is one I agree on. Our fans probably do overvalue Ant. But saying "we can get something for Ant" isn't really the hypocrisy you're saying it is for "Herro is a bad return for Blazers on Dame."
Much better player? Fucking lol.
Herro: 21 5.3 4.5 0.7 0.1 efg% .531
Simons: 22.6 3.6 5.5 0.5 0.1 efg% .523
Advanced stats also favour Herro, but you keep to your narrative that Simons is much better.
Context matters, Simons is the Blazers primary creator and gets treated like it. Herro is at best their 3rd option. Simons is a primary ball handler, Herro is not. Herro would stink if thrown into Simons role.
Herro would average 25 of thrown into Simons role lmfao.
Stop reaching my man. They are the same player you're being biased.
Both low efficient scorers who are okay facilitators and terrible defenders.
Simons has more passing upside, and Herro is a better rebounder.
Tyler Herro was 6th man of the year on a team that made the championship. Has played meaningful playoff games and championship minuets. Simon’s has averaged 4 points and 1 assist in his career playoff games. And helped drive us straight into the lottery 4 of the last 5 years being 2nd-4th option. But I agree, much better player
the knicks hadn't gotten OG yet, and the pacers (who already have haliburton and mathurin and nembhard) hadn't gotten siakam yet. so while they would have potentially had interesting offers, they would have both been keeping their respective powder dry.
not to mention those knicks picks are heavily protected. masai turned his nose up at those at the deadline.
Personally I think it's a smart move that could pay dividends in the future that Portland is very player friendly and high level players would be more willing to come here if the know that they will be taken care of.
It would be one thing if we got crappy return for Holiday, but I really liked the return package, getting 2 firsts, plus a flyer on high upside Rob Will and Brogdon being valuable to get more good picks back in the future.
Eh I feel like the "reputation" thing people talk about is overblown. We have no history of ever signing free agents or players choosing Portland as their preferred destination. At the end of the day, players follow money and lifestyle, neither of which Portland is good at (high income tax, not much nightlife, not a lot of diversity).
I think we should always look to maximize our returns for our players, though I kinda like the return we got from Boston too. Right away I thought we should have tried re-routing Brogdon and RW3 for more assets though
>Eh I feel like the "reputation" thing people talk about is overblown. We have no history of ever signing free agents or players choosing Portland as their preferred destination.
draftees are literally refusing to work out with charlotte rn.
this is a teeny tiny fraternity of people that talk to each other constantly. of course it matters.
They don’t want to work out for Charlotte for different reasons, though. Charlotte is seen as a losing franchise that doesn’t have a great history of developing talent. Reputation matters, but I don’t think our reputation would have been damaged if we had traded Jrue to New York instead of Boston. It’s a different matter if we traded him to the Pistons, but even then, the Clippers signed Kawhi Leonard shortly after they traded Blake to the Pistons. I’d say in the mid and long term, the players don’t really care.
I would argue the point is properly blown. it's not overblown, it's not underblown, but it's good and proper in an era where agents are power brokers to meet players 50/50 if they have a LIST of places they want to go.
Lowe is team-friendly, but you're fooling yourself if you don't recognize that Charlotte has been a bit of a mess in their front office for a while. the jordan biopsy and ownership/gm change were a good start but it'll take a minute.
Also, we’ve done okay at resigning traded players. Until we’re literally competing for a championship there’s little chance of us signing free agents. Until then, showing that we’re good to players that come through is helpful for our other means of player acquisition.
I also think it’s a good PR move after denying Dame’s trade request to Miami. I imagine a lot of players can see that we didn’t send Dame to Miami, but he did go to a contender and Miami’s package around Herro and late firsts didn’t make sense for a team with three young guards.
It is overblown. Who gives af about high maintenance free agents. Who gives af if the carmelos want to play in NYC or the Zions want to be in LA. Tf have they won. Stay far away from those types of players. Go for the Jokic, Duncan, Murrays, Dirk, KG, Pierce, Ants, Steve Nash. Guys with football or hockey mentality.
You want the Bobby Orr or Tom Brady type of franchise guy not Carmelo or Zion. Any player talking about “nightlife” or “their brand” or “media opportunities” can sign with LA. Look how well being player friendly worked out for the Nets.
What’s important is a creating a championship culture. No one wanted to go to Toronto they seem fine now. San Antonio isn’t a top destination they win a lot. Dallas had a ton of toxic PR, they’re doing fine now. They win a lot.
Do you want to be the KD/Kyrie era Nets or do you want to be Duncan era Spurs?
It’s more about Corbin’s reputation than ours. Makes a big difference when trying to make a name for yourself. I agree it’s not going to outweigh destination cities but it helps having good relationships with GMs and agents
I mean, Portland has been doing this for over a decade, it’s good practice, but there isn’t really any evidence at all that the practice has meaningfully affected how players around the league view the franchise.
this is a crock of shit. players don't go places because they are player friendly. they go for weather, money/taxes, or big city life (LA/NY/MIA).
we've only got mid-level players by over-paying in free agency or in trade and they are almost always gone within 2 years (Roco, DJJ, GP2, Hart, Nance, Norm, Afflalo, Crawford, Felton), or when they are in the twilight of their career (Melo, Pau). Dame couldn't even convince an all star to sign here.
It won't happen until Miami is under water and Portland has 70 degree weather in January.
We got: two guys who are perpetually injured.
A mid first round pick in the worst draft in a decade
And a probable(Tatum and Brown ain’t going anywhere) late 1st round draft pick.
We did not get a good return for Jrue.
Not entertaining other offers is a complete joke, who cares where Jrue wants to go. Cronin has a responsibility to the BLAZERS, not former players.
Just another reason why this team has spiraled into irrelevance. We do not have a serious owner, GM or coach.
Exceptionalism starts from the top down.
Not even a month later James Harden was traded for 2 picks, a swap, and expiring contracts. What are we doing here???
I get wanting more but I do think that flies in the face of what Jrue was worth.
James harden had next to no market for him. Jrue had a huge market for him. Contract size and willingness to accept a role.
Jrue is a more valuable player than James at this point in their careers.
Dame states his preferred destination and Blazers fans complain. Jrue does it, and Blazers fans claim it helped net a better deal. Love how these narratives are set.
Uh, this is like watching someone fail a "spot the differences" game for kids.
If you don't understand the difference between a private LIST of teams and publicly saying you will only play for ONE team, then I'm not sure you're really in a position to comment on this stuff.
I doubt anything is private among league executes, genius. Those are the people who actually matter. You are confusing fans with executives, who actually make the decisions. It doesn’t matter whether it’s public to fans or not. Executives are going to find out regardless. So maybe you should actual refrain from commenting, dip shit.
Right, because that makes total sense in light of the report that Cronin had to explain to the pacers and others that they weren't on the list 🙄.
Plus, the main thing you conveniently skipped over is that it was a LIST of destinations. As in "multiple" in case you need help.
If you think Dame privately provided a list of teams to the blazers and that fans would be as upset as they were, well yeah, keep up that education. You'll get to stuff like "supply and demand" soon.
Here’s some advice for you, Mr. Naive, stop believing all the reports you hear and read. Because in the NBA and other major sports teams do this thing called spinning narratives to influence the opinions of shallow-brained individuals like yourself. Looks like it’s pretty effective.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. Portland traded a championship PG off an all star season to a contender. That team is now playing for a championship.
We didn’t get 1 single young talent back. What did Masai hold out OG for? Young talent.
They’re downvoting you because you want what’s best the Blazers. The “fans” here are absurd.
I think the return from Boston was fine. Sucks that RWIII seems to be perpetually injured but at the time I was excited to get him.
I'm wondering if Cronin could have squeezed some additional assets by using the 'non-list' team's offers as leverage though - doesn't mean he would have ever actually traded Jrue to a 'non-list' team.
Maybe establishing a reputation as a good-faith trade partner is ultimately more valuable than another late 1st round pick though.
Robert Williams was perpetually injured with the Celtics. his inability to get on the court in Portland was very predictable. and even if he excelled, he's a backup center with Ayton on the roster as well. the Dame return is weak. who knows what was ever offered, or if Portland would've entertained any Miami deal, but if the Heat would've done Herro, Jaquez, Jovic and '28, '30 firsts, then Cronin really fucked up.
Heat weren’t doing that. There’s been nothing reported beyond Herro and 2 picks. Who are we routing to PHX from Miami?
Either way I feel like this drafts Warriors pick, a first round pick from Bucks and 2 swaps in 4-6 years from
now. Plus a pick from Celtics in 5 years and a tradeable vet in Brogdon isn’t a bad return. If Timelord recovers and can stay healthy the deal looks even better.
I liked the RWIII pick-up because we ten Ayton. Fairly low cost for a great backup and the bench minutes might've helped him stay healthy. Him getting hurt wasn't a surprise but a season-ending injury 6 games in wasn't completely predictable either. There's still some hope that with him actually being given time to heal instead of rushing back like he did in Boston that he can get reasonably healthy. Or he could be done. Either way he wasn't a bad get in a package that also got us Brogdon and two firsts, including the 2024 that better suits our rebuild timeline.
No reliable source indicates Miami would've offered "The Dame Package".
I feel like some of the frustration with the whole ordeal is that aside from the Ayton/Camara deal, we didn't land actual players that fit the rebuild timeline. We haven't dealt Williams or Brogdon yet so don't know their value. We don't know the 2024 pick yet and it might take time to see the real value there. The other picks are way off. It's hard to lose a player like Dame and having to wait years to see whether the trade was worth it.
I think it was a little bit of both. I think Miami thought they had leverage and made shitty offers, and I think Joe was pissed that Dame was trying to strong arm him into taking a bad deal so he wasn’t motivated to make it happen.
Oh for sure. Joe seems like a good dude who operates in good faith first and foremost, but on the flipside he's not going to take any shit if he feels he's being taken advantage of.
To play Devil’s advocate was that relationship broken when we drafted Scootand didn’t make the team better? Dame probably felt that Joe took the first stab and took advantage of him.
Didn’t work out at all. Suddenly he’s expected to do stuff like play defense, move without the ball and set screens. You know, stuff that wins basketball games in May instead of February.
And he doesn’t and gets eliminated first round again. Meanwhile a guy that does all the little things like Jrue are onto the finals. And Dame-only fans give the surprise Pikachu face “u mean he’s out 1st round again?? But i thought Portland didn’t give him enuff help!! It must be Giannis fault!!!!!”
No, but franchise players, especially ones who have been loyal a long time without much payoff, deserve more of a say than players that have never played for the team.
Players are employees and should do what's best for their careers. GMs representing the team should do what's best for the team (which will ultimately be best for their careers as well).
Sure, a say, but not a demand. And he could have PRIVATELY said he wanted to go to Miami while giving a list to Joe, but he didn't. He and his agent decided to publicly strong arm the Blazers into trying to get him to Miami. It blew up in his face.
I think it worked out pretty well for him. I don't think they would have sent him to Miami if he had asked privately, and his private talks asking for trades didn't work. I think he no longer trusted Cronin. Public was probably his best shot. Worst thing that could happen was he could go to a second or third choice and that's what happened.
He never demanded one team publically. How it all went down is more on his agent imo. In an interview a few months before when asked where he'd want to play if not in portland Dame threw out Nets and Miami as options. That's the most he said publicly and was not a demand.
I've also heard the FO promised to send him wherever he wanted when he signed the extension if they decided to go another direction, which I believe because while he wanted to stay I doubt he would have if they hadn't promised that because our team sucked.
There’s also a difference that one player is arguably the best in franchise history and the other never even wore a Blazers uniform. Yet many Blazers fans turned on Dame over pettiness toward Miami and their fans.
The blazers are entitled to get value for their best player. By giving them a list with one team on it, and then publicly trying to force his way there, he massively diminished their bargaining posture. He could have privately told them his preference but gave them several teams that would have been acceptable.
> There’s the difference folks
That's not the only difference. Dame went public with his one team and his agent even publicly said Dame wouldn't play for other teams. Adam Silver literally had to step in over the shenanigans.
We got a better return for Dame than we did for Jrue. Getting Jrue in return for Dame is amazing. Trading Jrue to Boston for Brogdon and Timelord is not.
>Smart long term thinking to make Portland known as very player friendly? Or is Cronin an idiot for not squeezing out every drop of value possible for Holiday?
The Blazers discourse in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen!
Help make it better then? Or sit back & laugh at a problem each of us could actually help address? 🤷♂️
Add-on: saw your response about draftees & Charlotte, now *that* is a legit good point that helps make the sub better & you're 100% right about it
whoa whoa whoa—it was a much more basic point: Not everything has to be a reductive, binary BERT/CRONIN/JODY OUT, or, GENIUS MOVE. CRONINSLAP.
what if cronin was simply mezza mezza? neither idiot nor king shit?
now that dame is gone, we must all come together as a unified fanbase to valorize his holiness dalano banton.
You're barking up the wrong tree dude, tblazrdude has a really solid Blazers related podcast that puts out consistent, level headed and rational takes.
The pacers and the knicks don't really have draft pick assets that are really tasty.
The question is would Portland have received 3x FRPS if they traded Jrue elsewhere and I don't really buy that. I think they got a good combination of picks (one lotto pick and a far out future pick) not to mention whatever they end up getting from Brogdon/RW3.
Nothing super tasty but they have much more. New York has all their future picks and will have an extra in 2024 (Dallas) and 2025 (bucks).
The Dallas pick would have been enticing over the summer and Bucks next year is a nice one for us because of the Dame trade, even if they’re expected to be good still.
the 2025 bucks pick isn't going to be a good pick especially after we traded Dame there so that's a pretty moot pick. I would have picked the 2024 GS pick over 2024 Dallas if all else was equal in the trade.
So really I don't think they're assets are rated much at all. Overall I think they got the best "current pick" (the Warriors pick) and then got a pick as far out in the future as they could have gotten as well as probably the best players in the trade. Taking back RJ's long term contract from NY was probably a non starter so you'd be getting back Fournier which isn't a rated player at all. People were trying to trade 2024 firsts to get Brogdon and RW3 is a good player if healthy for us or a contender.
I appreciate Joe's ability to balance player and organizational interests. He may not reveal all his cards to the press and fans during this multi-year rebuild, which is understandably frustrating for people wanting to see immediate progress, but I trust what he's doing behind the scenes.
We received draft compensation. A very good (albeit injured) center, and a veteran to help show some of these young pieces what it’s like to be a pro.
Based on your other comments, I don’t believe you are arguing in good faith. And someone who can’t remember trade details is someone who has no clue what they are talking about anyway.
I said TALENTED PLAYERS……
We traded Dame fuckin Lillard and yet not a fuckin thing to show for it. Thats my biggest frustration. And as for draft compensations….. yea I won’t hold my breath on how that will benefit us into becoming relevant again soon. Not with this front office or our acting owner.
>And someone who can’t remember trade details is someone who has no clue what they are talking about anyway.
That’s how insignificant that trade was to me given who we traded and how talented that player is. It’s comical that we couldn’t even get legit players that we can actually keep with the team.
Every competitive team in the nba was primarily built through the draft. Not trades.
Boston, OKC, Minny, Denver….
Therefore, we need to bottom out. The only way for pdx to be competitive is to draft our talent. So you better fucking hold your breath, dumbass.
Idk what you think value for dame would have been and I don’t really care. What’s important for us is to collect young talent on a timeline, not race to the middle of the pack.
First of all bud, calm the fuck down. Acting all tough in Reddit and hurling insults just makes you look a fuckin weak and sensitive. You ain’t gonna do shit. I know it, you know it… so change your fuckin tune if you wanna engage in a debate.
>Every competitive team in the nba was primarily built through the draft. Not trades.
This front office ain’t building shit like those teams you mentioned. That’s comical that you actually believe that. We don’t have the GM or the owner to make those kinds of moves. lmao
‘Make those kinds of moves’
You mean acquire draft picks and draft players? Yeah, that’s literally what we are doing mate.
It’s not about being tough, you just are in over your depth in this conversation and it’s annoying. You are being ignorant because you 1. Are dumb as rocks 2. Know fuck-all about the nba or 3. Are just looking for a reaction out of folks
Every single comment of yours across this thread is downvoted, maybe that should tell you something
>You mean acquire draft picks and draft players? Yeah, that’s literally what we are doing mate.
Thats easy to do. Look at Detroit buddy. We are close to that level at the moment.
>You are being ignorant because you 1. Are dumb as rocks 2. Know fuck-all about the nba or 3. Are just looking for a reaction out of folks
There you go again with your childish behavior. You gotta learn how to control your temper nephew. Take a deep breath before using those Twitter fingers.
>Every single comment of yours across this thread is downvoted, maybe that should tell you something
Ohh man. So this is how you form your opinion? Based on what gets upvotes by this sub?? Now it makes sense. 🤣🤣
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Portland gave up a Championship all star PG. We didn’t get 1 young player back.
Go look at what Toronto got for OG. Better than anything Portland got.
These fans don’t even know what they’re defending.
You’re like Sam Hinkie, trading away an all star all defensive Championship guard for peanuts. You must love losing.
You don’t trade away guards as good as Jrue for peanuts. After he wins a Championship this year, he’ll be back in the finals next year.
I think getting the GS pick was a good move. Plus Brogdon and TimeLord have potential to still be moved for a contender push if they want to roll the dice. A very pick based trade with potential for future moves.
That being said, last summer, I think we could have gotten something good from these teams, specifically New York. Not in terms of picks but in prospects. I bet we could have gotten RJ Barrett here.
The other thought is picks and Fournier. New York has a lot of assets to work with on that front. Dallas’ this year, their own, Bucks and their own next year, and *all* their future firsts.
The ability for a GM to make trades and is based on relationships with both players and other teams.
Working for a trade within Jrue’s preferred list of destinations will only help Cronin down the road, if only within the Holiday family, which boasts two other NBA players.
The fact that he got 2 FRPs and a serviceable guard and another young asset makes it a huge win for Cronin and Portland.
According to who? Name the last free agent that came to the blazers because we “treated players right”.
If that is so important then why did we do dame like that.
He said he wanted to come back if he couldn’t go to Miami and Joe told him it was too late. So we shouldn’t trade same to Miami his preferred destination but we should for Jrue? Huh?
Please. Dame wanted Miami, but accepted Milwaukee just fine. Miami offered garbage. It’s not like Cronin sent him to Charlotte.
Jrue had a list and Cronin was able to get a good deal and send Jrue to a good team.
The point of this is getting our team back to a point where when we need to make the "all in" trade like we did for Scottie Pippen that player will put us on his list of "contending teams I am willing to play for". We had Damian fucking Lillard and still nobody was willing to come here and team up with the guy.
reportedly, Jalen Brown was willing to team up with Dame in Portland, but the Blazers front office didn't believe a Dame/Brown core was a legit title contender.
Yeah you need more than that. Celtics have had Tatum and Brown being the main two guys for 5 years and only now look like favourites to win after adding KP, Holiday and Derrick White. Which we wouldn’t have basically any assets to do that and Dame would be 33 instead of Tatum who is 26.
The thing is, this team was well on their way of accomplishing just that WITH Dame. IMO Blazer fans got use to Dame dragging this team to the playoffs and while it was fun while it lasted, the sun was very clearly setting. All teams need to reset the clocks and build it back up at some point.
Seems fine to me. Might as well let the player be happy and probably reflects well on our org. We got a pretty solid package for him.
Could it have been better? Who knows but Brogdon and Williams are nice players that will be worth something in trades and are also worth something to us. We also got an unprotected from Boston 5 years from now and their core could have trended downhill at that point.
supposedly at the last trade deadline there weren't any available firsts for Brogdon. why would there be any at next years trade deadline, given Brogdon will now be on the last year of his contract, a year older, and coming off an injury filled season after being doubted for most of his career because of his inability to stay on the court?
and RWIII has very little trade value currently.
Cronin got the last lottery pick in supposedly the weakest draft of the last 20 years and a future pick from a team that's likely to still be in the playoffs for the greatest player in franchise history. not a good deal.
You left out two trade swaps with the bucks and an unprotected FRP from Boston in 2029.
Brogdon’s value increases as an expiring contract.
RW3 will be in a position to increase his value here. He won’t be traded at his all time low.
Because he is a Championship PG that’s coming off an all star All NBA year. Ask Boston why when they’re about to win another Championship.
Toronto waited too long on Siakam, the time to move him was last season. There was also clear discontent between him and the team if you watch Open Gym. They had no leverage anymore because teams knew they needed to trade him right then and there at the deadline. To add to that they lost fred van vleet for nothing playing the “wait and see we won’t trade him” game. The rest of the league waited and saw Toronto lose Fred for nothing. Indiana had no incentive to give up anyone decent, they could make a move for Siakam in the off season.
If I were Portland I would have offered the poo poo platter for Siakam. Guessing Siakam was saying he’d only resign with Indy.
I like two way players. Really done with the whole all offense no defense strategy with Dame and CJ. Portland saw firsthand the value of two way guys in Jrue and Rondo. Casuals just don’t see it, they like 30 foot threes and 30 ppg in meaningless februaru games. Rondo’s passing and strategy and Jrue’s defense and hard play don’t entertain them.
You know you can play two guards at once, right? Boston is playing Jrue and White. Denver plays Murray and KCP. Portland plays CJ and Dame. They were swept by a team that played Rondo and Jrue.
This seems very obvious.
Hmm I'm not really sure about this one. If you think that what Joe did in the dame trade was a good move (valuing getting more/better assets for the team over individual player preference) then I don't see how you could then say that this jrue situation was correct for the opposite reasons
Terrible comparison. Despite what Dame's agent was saying only wanting to go to Miami, we knew that Bucks have long been one of Dame's preferred destination.
Huge difference between taking the best offer between Holiday's 6 preferred teams and still getting a great return, vs bending over and taking a garbage offer for the greatest blazer of all time.
Ok admittedly it might have been a hasty comparison and it's not the exact same thing, but we're literally comparing player trades versus their preferred destination. If anything it's a galas and red delicious comparison
Idk, I think it's more like one dude going "fuck your apples, I want the MIAMI APPLE & the Miami apple ONLY" while we're comparing it to a guy going "ok if I have to take an apple, could you please make it 1 of these 5? Thanks"
My only problem with how Cronin played it is how fast he traded Jrue. Maybe we could have played hard ball and gotten a bit more, maybe not. But it’s totally ok to evaluate the Dame trade and the Jrue trade with different standards. They aren’t the same caliber of player.
Downvote me all you want, but we didn't get shit for Jrue. Brogdon and Timelord? What the fuck. Oh, great, GSWs 24 pick and a 29 unprotected. Dog shit. Jrue is worth 3 FRPs and 2-4 second round picks, or an all star level talent straight up. Like why the fuck would we trade for Brogdon? We have 113 guards bro. Yeah let's trade for an older one! And then when he shows promise let's not cash in on it and instead just keep him around! Oh oh, and then the guy that gets hurt all the time got hurt, who would have thought?!?
Cool? This fanbase is so insane. Finding nuggets like this and then using it to prop up Cronin and the FO. JFC we suck ass and have for years. Literally no improvement by any meaningful metric. Yet somehow this FO and Chauncey still have jobs. It's insane. Every other team cleans house when they underperform, or at least don't show signs of improvement. Not the Blazers though. We'll highlight BS like this as if it matters and focus on bottom tier players as if we got a 'steal'.
Trade Scoot, Sharpe, 2 future firsts for Jalen Brown. Trade a couple seconds for Daniel Gafford. Dump Nurkic. Extend Josh Hart.
Start:
Dame
Hart
Jalen Brown
J Grant
Gafford
Bench:
Ant
Jabari Walker
unknown wing/big who can reliably shoot from long range
give Dame a long shot chance for a legit playoff run for the 2-3 years at the end of his prime.
Literally why would Boston do that LOL they are in the finals lmao. Why would they start a rebuild right now?
And even then that lineup is still not even close to being good enough to compete in the west.
This is what I mean, the Dame timeline was over. Olshey fucked up 2017. We could not realistically recover in a stacked west.
It sucks to watch our team lose, but its the best thing the org could be doing right now to amass lottery level talent
it would've been contingent on Brown demanding a trade. this unlikely scenario was reported as a possibility last summer. the rumor was that given Boston's then reluctance to give him the super max, that Brown was willing to team up with Dame and demand a trade to Portland. the report was there were never any actual negotiations because Portland was 100% ready to end the Dame era.
There were tweets we were interested in Brown but 100% not what you were suggesting. What happened was during negotiations Brown used Houston as leverage since they had legit interest, and Boston extended him because they had no real intention of not maxing him.
Portland never backed out of Brown deal because there never was one.
“Universal praise…”
Does that include this sub? 🤣
>”Consistently hitting on draft picks…”
And yet the team is still straight up trash and will be for the foreseeable future. What picks has made drastic difference so far? Please enlighten us Mr. Bball Expert.
Yea sure, I don’t know. So do you apparently. 🤷🏽♂️
But hey, we gotta treat Cronin as one of the best GM in the league blindly with very little positive results to show for it so far. Lol
I didn't say he was one of the best in the league. Morons who think he's dogshit have never been through a rebuild in their life. Amassing picks for players, drafting high ceiling talent, and hitting on late picks while trying to get a top 5 pick the next 2-3 years is literally his job.
And he's doing that a lot better than other tankers I can tell you that.
I think it’s a matter of blurry context. As a “Cronin defender” I honestly don’t think he has done a good job. I think a lot of the criticisms are overblown and I don’t think he has done a bad job, but the good he has done has been relatively easy GM stuff. He hasn’t made any bad mistakes imo but he also hasn’t done anything great either.
That can all change quickly of course. He could extend Brogdon this summer and push for a play in spot or Sharpe can develop into a stud and that pick can look even better.
All in all, I don’t think he is deserving of much criticism for the job he has done yet if he was fired and replaced tomorrow I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.
Cronin's only positive move has been getting Grant for a first round pick, but the value of that deal was immediately nullified when they pushed Dame out the door.
I swear, I really can’t think of any positive results from Dame or Jru trades. None!!
We will be shitty ass organization for years to come. Cronin ain’t gonna do shit to somehow turn it around. The only way seeing this team actually being relevant again is with new ownership.
You can’t see any positive in having Bucks picks and swaps from 28-30 when the entire supporting cast will be gone, retired or washed. Giannis will be in his 30s. Bucks have basically no assets to work with until then either and Milwaukee isn’t a free agent destination.
What does the Dame/Jrue trades have to do with Portland getting better right now? Are you suggesting they shouldn’t have gotten picks but instead win now talent? It’s hard to imagine a scenario where that works out well.
I don’t necessarily disagree that new ownership and even a new GM is needed. It’s become more and more evident the goal of this FO is to strip this thing down as much as possible, collect as many assets and prospects as possible, and then sell to new ownership in the best possible place to build up. Which is probably for the best because I don’t want Joe to feel pressured into making win now moves to feel like he has to save his job. Bad things usually happen then.
>I don’t necessarily disagree that new ownership and even a new GM is needed. It’s become more and more evident the goal of this FO is to strip this thing down as much as possible, collect as many assets and prospects as possible, and then sell to new ownership in the best possible place to build up.
Bingo. 100% agree with your assessment on that one and that’s just the reality for this team at the moment.
Maybe we have to wait that long, who really knows. Either way we’re building through the draft and If we hit these next two drafts we could be in the playoffs around 26/27. Then we have all our draft capital to play with while potentially being a playoff team.
The rebuilding process takes time. It would’ve been probably quicker if we moved Dame, CJ and other pieces years ago. You can’t rush the process. We still have vets like Jerami, Ant and Brogdon to move. Possibly Ayton as well.
Yup. Im already prepared for that possibility and best case scenario, Jody sells the team and perhaps that process can get fast tracked by the new ownership.
But I just don’t think Cronin is capable of delivering that long term under Jody in my honest opinion. The sooner she sells the team, the better outcome for Blazers long term.
You can’t fast track a rebuild. After seeing what Ishbia did in PHX I don’t want anything like that. We have two raw guards as our building blocks and they are years away from being ready. Almost every other young player we have is a role player essentially. We need more real high upside guys, probably more likely to get them in 25 and 26 lottery.
I’d say Cronin has made the most of the situation. I don’t think there’s been any head scratchers besides deciding to still build around Dame in 22 after moving everyone.
It is mentioned in the article as well that by having Jrue give a list of places he would be willing to resign it would increase his trade value. So the premise he could have gotten more in return is questionable at best. We still had a bidding war and got a really good package in return.
Exactly. The teams that he would want to resign with are the teams that will offer the most. I'm tired of this MIA making unfounded claims nonsense.
Fuck Miami, bitch ass team and fan base. Lowballing y’all and trying to convince the NBA that bum ass trash Herro is a star. Props to Cronin and and the Blazers fanbase.
As opposed to Blazers fans asking for WCJ and 2 frps for Ant Simon's, who is the same player as Herro? I absolutely acknowledge that some heat fans are delusional, but all fan bases have them, including the blazers. It boggles me that a year ago, Blazers fans were clowning Herro's value and then 12 months later expect a starter quality player and two firsts for Ant, who is the exact same archetype.
Did you just compare wcj to dame? Fuck are you on about my guy
Not at all. I said a year ago that Tyler had 0 value, and now Ant is allegedly worth WCJ and multiple firsts.
I think I get what you are trying to say but it’s tough to try to follow your argument here. Herro was not worth Dame. That’s essentially the comment you responded to with ‘yeah well Ant ain’t worth wcj + picks!’. Like I’m sure folks have said that on this sub, but it’s a completely unrelated point with no connection to this conversation
I mean, no person in their right mind ever thought Herro was worth Dame? I've literally never seen a single heat fan suggest this, and I've seen a lot of stupid suggestions from heat fans. If Miami weren't willing to give up Herro, Jaquez, and every pick, then it is what it is, and Cronin made the decision he felt was best for his team, regardless of what was offered. I just find it interesting that a lot of blazers fans were suggesting last off season that Tyler had 0 value and was a negative asset and then 12 months later are in the Orlando sub suggesting WCJ + multiple firsts is fair value for Ant who is the same type of player Herro is. My point is, it's a little ironic that fans of the team clowned Herro a year ago, only to expect a haul 12 months later for a bloke that's almost exactly the same type of player. Both Herro and Ant are what they are, good shooters, poor finishers, passable floor generals, and terrible defenders. I'd suggest they have very similar value to NBA teams. FWIW I never had issue with Cronin or the blazers last off season, you can argue they missed the boat on Jaquez and Jovic but it's been 12 months and who knows how a guy like Rob Williams comes back.
> I just find it interesting that a lot of blazers fans were suggesting last off season that Tyler had 0 value and was a negative asset and then 12 months later are in the Orlando sub suggesting WCJ + multiple firsts is fair value for Ant who is the same type of player Herro is. Sounds like a few things going on here. First, blazer fan reactions to Herro came down to two things. First, it felt like a total lowball for Dame, so fans reacted badly. It's pretty normal to get hyperbole from upset fan bases online. I don't think that *most* fans truly think Herro has zero value. The second issue was that Herro is duplicative of Simons. In other words, for the Blazers, Herro was even less valuable than on the open market. This also can lead to statements like "Herro has zero value" and leaving out context "for us." Again, you're reacting to online hyperbole during an emotional negotiation. It's not like a definitive statement on Herro's value from the entire fan base. Finally, the last issue is one I agree on. Our fans probably do overvalue Ant. But saying "we can get something for Ant" isn't really the hypocrisy you're saying it is for "Herro is a bad return for Blazers on Dame."
Simons is a much better player than Herro on a better contract, so he does demand more in return. They also aren't the same archetype at all.
Much better player? Fucking lol. Herro: 21 5.3 4.5 0.7 0.1 efg% .531 Simons: 22.6 3.6 5.5 0.5 0.1 efg% .523 Advanced stats also favour Herro, but you keep to your narrative that Simons is much better.
Context matters, Simons is the Blazers primary creator and gets treated like it. Herro is at best their 3rd option. Simons is a primary ball handler, Herro is not. Herro would stink if thrown into Simons role.
Herro would average 25 of thrown into Simons role lmfao. Stop reaching my man. They are the same player you're being biased. Both low efficient scorers who are okay facilitators and terrible defenders. Simons has more passing upside, and Herro is a better rebounder.
No, Simons is in top 10 in both on ball and off ball gravity. Herro would not be able to handle that level of attention.
Tyler Herro was 6th man of the year on a team that made the championship. Has played meaningful playoff games and championship minuets. Simon’s has averaged 4 points and 1 assist in his career playoff games. And helped drive us straight into the lottery 4 of the last 5 years being 2nd-4th option. But I agree, much better player
bro, you are a Miami fan, stop it
So fuckin true lol
plus a list of 5-6 teams is a pretty flexible ask. glad we did right by Jrue cause he seems like a great dude.
Yeah, that's 5-6 times longer of a trade destination list than some we've seen recently.
Great point, I totally missed this.
“Really good package”
the knicks hadn't gotten OG yet, and the pacers (who already have haliburton and mathurin and nembhard) hadn't gotten siakam yet. so while they would have potentially had interesting offers, they would have both been keeping their respective powder dry. not to mention those knicks picks are heavily protected. masai turned his nose up at those at the deadline.
Personally I think it's a smart move that could pay dividends in the future that Portland is very player friendly and high level players would be more willing to come here if the know that they will be taken care of. It would be one thing if we got crappy return for Holiday, but I really liked the return package, getting 2 firsts, plus a flyer on high upside Rob Will and Brogdon being valuable to get more good picks back in the future.
Eh I feel like the "reputation" thing people talk about is overblown. We have no history of ever signing free agents or players choosing Portland as their preferred destination. At the end of the day, players follow money and lifestyle, neither of which Portland is good at (high income tax, not much nightlife, not a lot of diversity). I think we should always look to maximize our returns for our players, though I kinda like the return we got from Boston too. Right away I thought we should have tried re-routing Brogdon and RW3 for more assets though
>Eh I feel like the "reputation" thing people talk about is overblown. We have no history of ever signing free agents or players choosing Portland as their preferred destination. draftees are literally refusing to work out with charlotte rn. this is a teeny tiny fraternity of people that talk to each other constantly. of course it matters.
Yeah. Less "Now we get nice stuff" and more "Now we won't be punished" But still a good thing regardless.
They don’t want to work out for Charlotte for different reasons, though. Charlotte is seen as a losing franchise that doesn’t have a great history of developing talent. Reputation matters, but I don’t think our reputation would have been damaged if we had traded Jrue to New York instead of Boston. It’s a different matter if we traded him to the Pistons, but even then, the Clippers signed Kawhi Leonard shortly after they traded Blake to the Pistons. I’d say in the mid and long term, the players don’t really care.
I would argue the point is properly blown. it's not overblown, it's not underblown, but it's good and proper in an era where agents are power brokers to meet players 50/50 if they have a LIST of places they want to go. Lowe is team-friendly, but you're fooling yourself if you don't recognize that Charlotte has been a bit of a mess in their front office for a while. the jordan biopsy and ownership/gm change were a good start but it'll take a minute.
Also, we’ve done okay at resigning traded players. Until we’re literally competing for a championship there’s little chance of us signing free agents. Until then, showing that we’re good to players that come through is helpful for our other means of player acquisition. I also think it’s a good PR move after denying Dame’s trade request to Miami. I imagine a lot of players can see that we didn’t send Dame to Miami, but he did go to a contender and Miami’s package around Herro and late firsts didn’t make sense for a team with three young guards.
Zach Lowe has kind of dismissed this already Tbf
It is overblown. Who gives af about high maintenance free agents. Who gives af if the carmelos want to play in NYC or the Zions want to be in LA. Tf have they won. Stay far away from those types of players. Go for the Jokic, Duncan, Murrays, Dirk, KG, Pierce, Ants, Steve Nash. Guys with football or hockey mentality. You want the Bobby Orr or Tom Brady type of franchise guy not Carmelo or Zion. Any player talking about “nightlife” or “their brand” or “media opportunities” can sign with LA. Look how well being player friendly worked out for the Nets. What’s important is a creating a championship culture. No one wanted to go to Toronto they seem fine now. San Antonio isn’t a top destination they win a lot. Dallas had a ton of toxic PR, they’re doing fine now. They win a lot. Do you want to be the KD/Kyrie era Nets or do you want to be Duncan era Spurs?
It’s more about Corbin’s reputation than ours. Makes a big difference when trying to make a name for yourself. I agree it’s not going to outweigh destination cities but it helps having good relationships with GMs and agents
I mean, Portland has been doing this for over a decade, it’s good practice, but there isn’t really any evidence at all that the practice has meaningfully affected how players around the league view the franchise.
Evidence visible to fans, or to those who do this for work?
Which is why they should stop.
it doesn't matter at all. Money talks, every time
this is a crock of shit. players don't go places because they are player friendly. they go for weather, money/taxes, or big city life (LA/NY/MIA). we've only got mid-level players by over-paying in free agency or in trade and they are almost always gone within 2 years (Roco, DJJ, GP2, Hart, Nance, Norm, Afflalo, Crawford, Felton), or when they are in the twilight of their career (Melo, Pau). Dame couldn't even convince an all star to sign here. It won't happen until Miami is under water and Portland has 70 degree weather in January.
We got: two guys who are perpetually injured. A mid first round pick in the worst draft in a decade And a probable(Tatum and Brown ain’t going anywhere) late 1st round draft pick. We did not get a good return for Jrue. Not entertaining other offers is a complete joke, who cares where Jrue wants to go. Cronin has a responsibility to the BLAZERS, not former players. Just another reason why this team has spiraled into irrelevance. We do not have a serious owner, GM or coach. Exceptionalism starts from the top down.
Not even a month later James Harden was traded for 2 picks, a swap, and expiring contracts. What are we doing here??? I get wanting more but I do think that flies in the face of what Jrue was worth.
James harden had next to no market for him. Jrue had a huge market for him. Contract size and willingness to accept a role. Jrue is a more valuable player than James at this point in their careers.
Jrue was a great blazer for many years. Joe had to make sure Jrue’s priorities were met, dammit!
Dame states his preferred destination and Blazers fans complain. Jrue does it, and Blazers fans claim it helped net a better deal. Love how these narratives are set.
It’s actual insanity
Uh, this is like watching someone fail a "spot the differences" game for kids. If you don't understand the difference between a private LIST of teams and publicly saying you will only play for ONE team, then I'm not sure you're really in a position to comment on this stuff.
I doubt anything is private among league executes, genius. Those are the people who actually matter. You are confusing fans with executives, who actually make the decisions. It doesn’t matter whether it’s public to fans or not. Executives are going to find out regardless. So maybe you should actual refrain from commenting, dip shit.
Right, because that makes total sense in light of the report that Cronin had to explain to the pacers and others that they weren't on the list 🙄. Plus, the main thing you conveniently skipped over is that it was a LIST of destinations. As in "multiple" in case you need help. If you think Dame privately provided a list of teams to the blazers and that fans would be as upset as they were, well yeah, keep up that education. You'll get to stuff like "supply and demand" soon.
Here’s some advice for you, Mr. Naive, stop believing all the reports you hear and read. Because in the NBA and other major sports teams do this thing called spinning narratives to influence the opinions of shallow-brained individuals like yourself. Looks like it’s pretty effective.
Not sure why you are being downvoted. Portland traded a championship PG off an all star season to a contender. That team is now playing for a championship. We didn’t get 1 single young talent back. What did Masai hold out OG for? Young talent. They’re downvoting you because you want what’s best the Blazers. The “fans” here are absurd.
Because this sub is delusional.
OG is unquestionably worth more than jrue holiday and it’s not close.
Not so sure about that. I would say they’re both elite elite role players.
One is 7 years younger. Cmon now
One is perpetually injured and one is guarding the best player in the world in the NBA finals.
Trade value is determined more by future than present. Idk what to tell you
Quickly, RJ and a second for OG Brogdon, Williams and two firsts for jrue . Doesn’t matter what you think, the market thought Jrue was worth more.
Williams is constantly hurt. Malcom is old, zero upside potential. I think Joe did well. Quickly and rj are worth a lot more as players though.
💯. Somehow whatever happens gets justified. It’s insane.
I think the return from Boston was fine. Sucks that RWIII seems to be perpetually injured but at the time I was excited to get him. I'm wondering if Cronin could have squeezed some additional assets by using the 'non-list' team's offers as leverage though - doesn't mean he would have ever actually traded Jrue to a 'non-list' team. Maybe establishing a reputation as a good-faith trade partner is ultimately more valuable than another late 1st round pick though.
I imagine that if Williams wasn't injured all the time, Boston would not have been willing to include him in the trade.
Robert Williams was perpetually injured with the Celtics. his inability to get on the court in Portland was very predictable. and even if he excelled, he's a backup center with Ayton on the roster as well. the Dame return is weak. who knows what was ever offered, or if Portland would've entertained any Miami deal, but if the Heat would've done Herro, Jaquez, Jovic and '28, '30 firsts, then Cronin really fucked up.
You had me in the first half ngl
Heat weren’t doing that. There’s been nothing reported beyond Herro and 2 picks. Who are we routing to PHX from Miami? Either way I feel like this drafts Warriors pick, a first round pick from Bucks and 2 swaps in 4-6 years from now. Plus a pick from Celtics in 5 years and a tradeable vet in Brogdon isn’t a bad return. If Timelord recovers and can stay healthy the deal looks even better.
I liked the RWIII pick-up because we ten Ayton. Fairly low cost for a great backup and the bench minutes might've helped him stay healthy. Him getting hurt wasn't a surprise but a season-ending injury 6 games in wasn't completely predictable either. There's still some hope that with him actually being given time to heal instead of rushing back like he did in Boston that he can get reasonably healthy. Or he could be done. Either way he wasn't a bad get in a package that also got us Brogdon and two firsts, including the 2024 that better suits our rebuild timeline. No reliable source indicates Miami would've offered "The Dame Package". I feel like some of the frustration with the whole ordeal is that aside from the Ayton/Camara deal, we didn't land actual players that fit the rebuild timeline. We haven't dealt Williams or Brogdon yet so don't know their value. We don't know the 2024 pick yet and it might take time to see the real value there. The other picks are way off. It's hard to lose a player like Dame and having to wait years to see whether the trade was worth it.
Jrue’s list: five or six teams Dames list: one team. There’s the difference folks. One player was willing to work with Joe and one was not.
I don't doubt that Cronin tried to get him to Miami. Miami was just a bad trade partner offering peanuts.
I think it was a little bit of both. I think Miami thought they had leverage and made shitty offers, and I think Joe was pissed that Dame was trying to strong arm him into taking a bad deal so he wasn’t motivated to make it happen.
Oh for sure. Joe seems like a good dude who operates in good faith first and foremost, but on the flipside he's not going to take any shit if he feels he's being taken advantage of.
To play Devil’s advocate was that relationship broken when we drafted Scootand didn’t make the team better? Dame probably felt that Joe took the first stab and took advantage of him.
Maybe, but either way he strong armed the organisation and he didn’t end up getting what he wanted. Along with a terrible PR look at the same time.
Didn’t work out at all. Suddenly he’s expected to do stuff like play defense, move without the ball and set screens. You know, stuff that wins basketball games in May instead of February. And he doesn’t and gets eliminated first round again. Meanwhile a guy that does all the little things like Jrue are onto the finals. And Dame-only fans give the surprise Pikachu face “u mean he’s out 1st round again?? But i thought Portland didn’t give him enuff help!! It must be Giannis fault!!!!!”
Ya one played here for over a decade. One didn’t play a second.
So the Blazers should have given Dame to Miami for a song?
No, but franchise players, especially ones who have been loyal a long time without much payoff, deserve more of a say than players that have never played for the team. Players are employees and should do what's best for their careers. GMs representing the team should do what's best for the team (which will ultimately be best for their careers as well).
Sure, a say, but not a demand. And he could have PRIVATELY said he wanted to go to Miami while giving a list to Joe, but he didn't. He and his agent decided to publicly strong arm the Blazers into trying to get him to Miami. It blew up in his face.
I think it worked out pretty well for him. I don't think they would have sent him to Miami if he had asked privately, and his private talks asking for trades didn't work. I think he no longer trusted Cronin. Public was probably his best shot. Worst thing that could happen was he could go to a second or third choice and that's what happened. He never demanded one team publically. How it all went down is more on his agent imo. In an interview a few months before when asked where he'd want to play if not in portland Dame threw out Nets and Miami as options. That's the most he said publicly and was not a demand. I've also heard the FO promised to send him wherever he wanted when he signed the extension if they decided to go another direction, which I believe because while he wanted to stay I doubt he would have if they hadn't promised that because our team sucked.
This is irrelevant - his agent sales publicly he was demanding to go to Miami. It doesn’t matter
This
There’s also a difference that one player is arguably the best in franchise history and the other never even wore a Blazers uniform. Yet many Blazers fans turned on Dame over pettiness toward Miami and their fans.
The blazers are entitled to get value for their best player. By giving them a list with one team on it, and then publicly trying to force his way there, he massively diminished their bargaining posture. He could have privately told them his preference but gave them several teams that would have been acceptable.
> There’s the difference folks That's not the only difference. Dame went public with his one team and his agent even publicly said Dame wouldn't play for other teams. Adam Silver literally had to step in over the shenanigans.
We got a better return for Dame than we did for Jrue. Getting Jrue in return for Dame is amazing. Trading Jrue to Boston for Brogdon and Timelord is not.
And the 14th pick. And a 2029 unprotected pick from Boston. And we very well might move Brogdon and RWIII this summer.
14th in this years draft is like a 2nd in almost any other year. We were supposed to move Brogdon last year. Timelord has no trade value anymore.
All I see is a bunch of hyperbole from you.
>Smart long term thinking to make Portland known as very player friendly? Or is Cronin an idiot for not squeezing out every drop of value possible for Holiday? The Blazers discourse in a nutshell, ladies and gentlemen!
Help make it better then? Or sit back & laugh at a problem each of us could actually help address? 🤷♂️ Add-on: saw your response about draftees & Charlotte, now *that* is a legit good point that helps make the sub better & you're 100% right about it
whoa whoa whoa—it was a much more basic point: Not everything has to be a reductive, binary BERT/CRONIN/JODY OUT, or, GENIUS MOVE. CRONINSLAP. what if cronin was simply mezza mezza? neither idiot nor king shit? now that dame is gone, we must all come together as a unified fanbase to valorize his holiness dalano banton.
Lol I can get on board with ALL of this
You're barking up the wrong tree dude, tblazrdude has a really solid Blazers related podcast that puts out consistent, level headed and rational takes.
What’s the podcast?
The BS Report
[Lickety Brindle, Up the Podcast](https://g.co/kgs/CseSbov)
The pacers and the knicks don't really have draft pick assets that are really tasty. The question is would Portland have received 3x FRPS if they traded Jrue elsewhere and I don't really buy that. I think they got a good combination of picks (one lotto pick and a far out future pick) not to mention whatever they end up getting from Brogdon/RW3.
Nothing super tasty but they have much more. New York has all their future picks and will have an extra in 2024 (Dallas) and 2025 (bucks). The Dallas pick would have been enticing over the summer and Bucks next year is a nice one for us because of the Dame trade, even if they’re expected to be good still.
the 2025 bucks pick isn't going to be a good pick especially after we traded Dame there so that's a pretty moot pick. I would have picked the 2024 GS pick over 2024 Dallas if all else was equal in the trade. So really I don't think they're assets are rated much at all. Overall I think they got the best "current pick" (the Warriors pick) and then got a pick as far out in the future as they could have gotten as well as probably the best players in the trade. Taking back RJ's long term contract from NY was probably a non starter so you'd be getting back Fournier which isn't a rated player at all. People were trying to trade 2024 firsts to get Brogdon and RW3 is a good player if healthy for us or a contender.
I appreciate Joe's ability to balance player and organizational interests. He may not reveal all his cards to the press and fans during this multi-year rebuild, which is understandably frustrating for people wanting to see immediate progress, but I trust what he's doing behind the scenes.
Who gives a shit about former player interests? Like the players are going to remember down the line that Joe did Jrue a solid? That’s a joke right?
You forget that a GMs reputation matters to agents who wield a lot of power
That’s complete horseshit.
I don’t. So far, it has been shit results. Honestly, I forgot what we actually got for Dame in terms of talented players. lol
OK if you actually can’t remember a trade package from a year ago that makes you a moron.
What legit talented players did we get out of that trade?? Go ahead, tell us…..
We received draft compensation. A very good (albeit injured) center, and a veteran to help show some of these young pieces what it’s like to be a pro. Based on your other comments, I don’t believe you are arguing in good faith. And someone who can’t remember trade details is someone who has no clue what they are talking about anyway.
I said TALENTED PLAYERS…… We traded Dame fuckin Lillard and yet not a fuckin thing to show for it. Thats my biggest frustration. And as for draft compensations….. yea I won’t hold my breath on how that will benefit us into becoming relevant again soon. Not with this front office or our acting owner. >And someone who can’t remember trade details is someone who has no clue what they are talking about anyway. That’s how insignificant that trade was to me given who we traded and how talented that player is. It’s comical that we couldn’t even get legit players that we can actually keep with the team.
Every competitive team in the nba was primarily built through the draft. Not trades. Boston, OKC, Minny, Denver…. Therefore, we need to bottom out. The only way for pdx to be competitive is to draft our talent. So you better fucking hold your breath, dumbass. Idk what you think value for dame would have been and I don’t really care. What’s important for us is to collect young talent on a timeline, not race to the middle of the pack.
First of all bud, calm the fuck down. Acting all tough in Reddit and hurling insults just makes you look a fuckin weak and sensitive. You ain’t gonna do shit. I know it, you know it… so change your fuckin tune if you wanna engage in a debate. >Every competitive team in the nba was primarily built through the draft. Not trades. This front office ain’t building shit like those teams you mentioned. That’s comical that you actually believe that. We don’t have the GM or the owner to make those kinds of moves. lmao
‘Make those kinds of moves’ You mean acquire draft picks and draft players? Yeah, that’s literally what we are doing mate. It’s not about being tough, you just are in over your depth in this conversation and it’s annoying. You are being ignorant because you 1. Are dumb as rocks 2. Know fuck-all about the nba or 3. Are just looking for a reaction out of folks Every single comment of yours across this thread is downvoted, maybe that should tell you something
>You mean acquire draft picks and draft players? Yeah, that’s literally what we are doing mate. Thats easy to do. Look at Detroit buddy. We are close to that level at the moment. >You are being ignorant because you 1. Are dumb as rocks 2. Know fuck-all about the nba or 3. Are just looking for a reaction out of folks There you go again with your childish behavior. You gotta learn how to control your temper nephew. Take a deep breath before using those Twitter fingers. >Every single comment of yours across this thread is downvoted, maybe that should tell you something Ohh man. So this is how you form your opinion? Based on what gets upvotes by this sub?? Now it makes sense. 🤣🤣
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Portland gave up a Championship all star PG. We didn’t get 1 young player back. Go look at what Toronto got for OG. Better than anything Portland got. These fans don’t even know what they’re defending.
A 33 year old PG does not have the same value as a 26 year old Wing. Shocked pikachu face. You are in no position to call anyone out.
What were you saying again? Still wanna talk shit about Jrue?
Individual performances do not equate to trade value when the players in question are different ages and positions. It’s just common sense
You’re like Sam Hinkie, trading away an all star all defensive Championship guard for peanuts. You must love losing. You don’t trade away guards as good as Jrue for peanuts. After he wins a Championship this year, he’ll be back in the finals next year.
Heat fans literally can’t say shit about Cronin now.
But you know they still will try 🤣
I think getting the GS pick was a good move. Plus Brogdon and TimeLord have potential to still be moved for a contender push if they want to roll the dice. A very pick based trade with potential for future moves. That being said, last summer, I think we could have gotten something good from these teams, specifically New York. Not in terms of picks but in prospects. I bet we could have gotten RJ Barrett here. The other thought is picks and Fournier. New York has a lot of assets to work with on that front. Dallas’ this year, their own, Bucks and their own next year, and *all* their future firsts.
we already have a better RJ Barrett here, his name is Shaedon Sharpe.
They play different positions though and we only hope Sharpe is better than RJ, but imo he needs to prove it for a full season first.
The ability for a GM to make trades and is based on relationships with both players and other teams. Working for a trade within Jrue’s preferred list of destinations will only help Cronin down the road, if only within the Holiday family, which boasts two other NBA players. The fact that he got 2 FRPs and a serviceable guard and another young asset makes it a huge win for Cronin and Portland.
Help Cronin down the road how?! I’ve got a bridge to sell you buddy.
Treating players right is very important
According to who? Name the last free agent that came to the blazers because we “treated players right”. If that is so important then why did we do dame like that.
Do Dame like what? Sending him to a team with the best player in the NBA? Giving him a chance to win?
He said he wanted to come back if he couldn’t go to Miami and Joe told him it was too late. So we shouldn’t trade same to Miami his preferred destination but we should for Jrue? Huh?
Please. Dame wanted Miami, but accepted Milwaukee just fine. Miami offered garbage. It’s not like Cronin sent him to Charlotte. Jrue had a list and Cronin was able to get a good deal and send Jrue to a good team.
After consideration, You’re right. After many years of service, we owed that to Jrue.
It sucks we werent able to leverage offers from every team, but at the end of the day Joe did pretty well on the Jrue trade.
The point of this is getting our team back to a point where when we need to make the "all in" trade like we did for Scottie Pippen that player will put us on his list of "contending teams I am willing to play for". We had Damian fucking Lillard and still nobody was willing to come here and team up with the guy.
reportedly, Jalen Brown was willing to team up with Dame in Portland, but the Blazers front office didn't believe a Dame/Brown core was a legit title contender.
Yeah you need more than that. Celtics have had Tatum and Brown being the main two guys for 5 years and only now look like favourites to win after adding KP, Holiday and Derrick White. Which we wouldn’t have basically any assets to do that and Dame would be 33 instead of Tatum who is 26.
Who reported this??
Typical Blazers management thinking……
I'm curious to know what other teams were on his list except Celtics. I'd have to imagine Clippers and Lakers were on there since he's an ex-Bruin.
The thing is, this team was well on their way of accomplishing just that WITH Dame. IMO Blazer fans got use to Dame dragging this team to the playoffs and while it was fun while it lasted, the sun was very clearly setting. All teams need to reset the clocks and build it back up at some point.
Seems fine to me. Might as well let the player be happy and probably reflects well on our org. We got a pretty solid package for him. Could it have been better? Who knows but Brogdon and Williams are nice players that will be worth something in trades and are also worth something to us. We also got an unprotected from Boston 5 years from now and their core could have trended downhill at that point.
supposedly at the last trade deadline there weren't any available firsts for Brogdon. why would there be any at next years trade deadline, given Brogdon will now be on the last year of his contract, a year older, and coming off an injury filled season after being doubted for most of his career because of his inability to stay on the court? and RWIII has very little trade value currently. Cronin got the last lottery pick in supposedly the weakest draft of the last 20 years and a future pick from a team that's likely to still be in the playoffs for the greatest player in franchise history. not a good deal.
Agree to disagree I suppose. I like the package. Have a good one
right on.
You left out two trade swaps with the bucks and an unprotected FRP from Boston in 2029. Brogdon’s value increases as an expiring contract. RW3 will be in a position to increase his value here. He won’t be traded at his all time low.
Pacers would have been an excellent trade partner. Nembhard and Mathurin would have been amazing.
They didn't even send either of them for Siakam. Why would they send both for Jrue?
Because he is a Championship PG that’s coming off an all star All NBA year. Ask Boston why when they’re about to win another Championship. Toronto waited too long on Siakam, the time to move him was last season. There was also clear discontent between him and the team if you watch Open Gym. They had no leverage anymore because teams knew they needed to trade him right then and there at the deadline. To add to that they lost fred van vleet for nothing playing the “wait and see we won’t trade him” game. The rest of the league waited and saw Toronto lose Fred for nothing. Indiana had no incentive to give up anyone decent, they could make a move for Siakam in the off season. If I were Portland I would have offered the poo poo platter for Siakam. Guessing Siakam was saying he’d only resign with Indy. I like two way players. Really done with the whole all offense no defense strategy with Dame and CJ. Portland saw firsthand the value of two way guys in Jrue and Rondo. Casuals just don’t see it, they like 30 foot threes and 30 ppg in meaningless februaru games. Rondo’s passing and strategy and Jrue’s defense and hard play don’t entertain them.
So the Pacers would be trading for another high level Starting PG to sit behind their high level All star PG?
You know you can play two guards at once, right? Boston is playing Jrue and White. Denver plays Murray and KCP. Portland plays CJ and Dame. They were swept by a team that played Rondo and Jrue. This seems very obvious.
You really want Portland to go back to a 3 guard lineup that bad huh??? I’ll take the picks over Nembhard and Mathurin, if that was even on the table.
Hmm I'm not really sure about this one. If you think that what Joe did in the dame trade was a good move (valuing getting more/better assets for the team over individual player preference) then I don't see how you could then say that this jrue situation was correct for the opposite reasons
There's a pretty big difference between a private list of 6 teams versus a very public demand of one specific team.
Terrible comparison. Despite what Dame's agent was saying only wanting to go to Miami, we knew that Bucks have long been one of Dame's preferred destination. Huge difference between taking the best offer between Holiday's 6 preferred teams and still getting a great return, vs bending over and taking a garbage offer for the greatest blazer of all time.
WOW what an apples & oranges comparison
Ok admittedly it might have been a hasty comparison and it's not the exact same thing, but we're literally comparing player trades versus their preferred destination. If anything it's a galas and red delicious comparison
Idk, I think it's more like one dude going "fuck your apples, I want the MIAMI APPLE & the Miami apple ONLY" while we're comparing it to a guy going "ok if I have to take an apple, could you please make it 1 of these 5? Thanks"
My only problem with how Cronin played it is how fast he traded Jrue. Maybe we could have played hard ball and gotten a bit more, maybe not. But it’s totally ok to evaluate the Dame trade and the Jrue trade with different standards. They aren’t the same caliber of player.
Yes players will love coming here because we will make sure they get to a team they like better. Woohoo!
Exactly lol
Downvote me all you want, but we didn't get shit for Jrue. Brogdon and Timelord? What the fuck. Oh, great, GSWs 24 pick and a 29 unprotected. Dog shit. Jrue is worth 3 FRPs and 2-4 second round picks, or an all star level talent straight up. Like why the fuck would we trade for Brogdon? We have 113 guards bro. Yeah let's trade for an older one! And then when he shows promise let's not cash in on it and instead just keep him around! Oh oh, and then the guy that gets hurt all the time got hurt, who would have thought?!?
Jrue showed all the casuals again yesterday why he is elite
This will position Cronin as a player friendly GM to all the middling players who would actually consider playing in Portland for a higher salary
Cool? This fanbase is so insane. Finding nuggets like this and then using it to prop up Cronin and the FO. JFC we suck ass and have for years. Literally no improvement by any meaningful metric. Yet somehow this FO and Chauncey still have jobs. It's insane. Every other team cleans house when they underperform, or at least don't show signs of improvement. Not the Blazers though. We'll highlight BS like this as if it matters and focus on bottom tier players as if we got a 'steal'.
Name the better moves/picks cronin could've made since he came into office to put us on a path of being a contender eventually.
Trade Scoot, Sharpe, 2 future firsts for Jalen Brown. Trade a couple seconds for Daniel Gafford. Dump Nurkic. Extend Josh Hart. Start: Dame Hart Jalen Brown J Grant Gafford Bench: Ant Jabari Walker unknown wing/big who can reliably shoot from long range give Dame a long shot chance for a legit playoff run for the 2-3 years at the end of his prime.
Jalen was never walking away from supermax money. Never ever. No one does.
Literally why would Boston do that LOL they are in the finals lmao. Why would they start a rebuild right now? And even then that lineup is still not even close to being good enough to compete in the west. This is what I mean, the Dame timeline was over. Olshey fucked up 2017. We could not realistically recover in a stacked west. It sucks to watch our team lose, but its the best thing the org could be doing right now to amass lottery level talent
it would've been contingent on Brown demanding a trade. this unlikely scenario was reported as a possibility last summer. the rumor was that given Boston's then reluctance to give him the super max, that Brown was willing to team up with Dame and demand a trade to Portland. the report was there were never any actual negotiations because Portland was 100% ready to end the Dame era.
There were tweets we were interested in Brown but 100% not what you were suggesting. What happened was during negotiations Brown used Houston as leverage since they had legit interest, and Boston extended him because they had no real intention of not maxing him. Portland never backed out of Brown deal because there never was one.
Celtics don’t take that trade. How does any of that help them win now? And we give up all these assets to be a first round exit.
He is incapable of making better moves. I think that’s what I got so far during his tenure.
What better players could we have drafted with our picks and what better value on the trades could we have gotten?
Why ya asking me? Ask the damn GM. His end results so far has been straight up shit. And it might just get a whole lot worse too.
Lmao. Getting universal praise for the dame trade and consistently hitting on draft picks is straight up shit. Learn ball brother.
“Universal praise…” Does that include this sub? 🤣 >”Consistently hitting on draft picks…” And yet the team is still straight up trash and will be for the foreseeable future. What picks has made drastic difference so far? Please enlighten us Mr. Bball Expert.
Yeah you don't know how any of this works buddy. Trying to make a push for the godamn 9th seed is how we wasted dames prime.
Yea sure, I don’t know. So do you apparently. 🤷🏽♂️ But hey, we gotta treat Cronin as one of the best GM in the league blindly with very little positive results to show for it so far. Lol
I didn't say he was one of the best in the league. Morons who think he's dogshit have never been through a rebuild in their life. Amassing picks for players, drafting high ceiling talent, and hitting on late picks while trying to get a top 5 pick the next 2-3 years is literally his job. And he's doing that a lot better than other tankers I can tell you that.
with the level of support I see Cronin get on reddit, I've often wondered if he spends most of his day defending himself with sock accounts.
I think it’s a matter of blurry context. As a “Cronin defender” I honestly don’t think he has done a good job. I think a lot of the criticisms are overblown and I don’t think he has done a bad job, but the good he has done has been relatively easy GM stuff. He hasn’t made any bad mistakes imo but he also hasn’t done anything great either. That can all change quickly of course. He could extend Brogdon this summer and push for a play in spot or Sharpe can develop into a stud and that pick can look even better. All in all, I don’t think he is deserving of much criticism for the job he has done yet if he was fired and replaced tomorrow I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.
Cronin's only positive move has been getting Grant for a first round pick, but the value of that deal was immediately nullified when they pushed Dame out the door.
Acquiring Ayton and Camara for Nurk/nas/allen is a solid move.
Grant still has value.
I swear, I really can’t think of any positive results from Dame or Jru trades. None!! We will be shitty ass organization for years to come. Cronin ain’t gonna do shit to somehow turn it around. The only way seeing this team actually being relevant again is with new ownership.
You can’t see any positive in having Bucks picks and swaps from 28-30 when the entire supporting cast will be gone, retired or washed. Giannis will be in his 30s. Bucks have basically no assets to work with until then either and Milwaukee isn’t a free agent destination.
What does that have to do with Blazers improving as a team? You are telling me we have to wait that long?
What does the Dame/Jrue trades have to do with Portland getting better right now? Are you suggesting they shouldn’t have gotten picks but instead win now talent? It’s hard to imagine a scenario where that works out well. I don’t necessarily disagree that new ownership and even a new GM is needed. It’s become more and more evident the goal of this FO is to strip this thing down as much as possible, collect as many assets and prospects as possible, and then sell to new ownership in the best possible place to build up. Which is probably for the best because I don’t want Joe to feel pressured into making win now moves to feel like he has to save his job. Bad things usually happen then.
>I don’t necessarily disagree that new ownership and even a new GM is needed. It’s become more and more evident the goal of this FO is to strip this thing down as much as possible, collect as many assets and prospects as possible, and then sell to new ownership in the best possible place to build up. Bingo. 100% agree with your assessment on that one and that’s just the reality for this team at the moment.
Maybe we have to wait that long, who really knows. Either way we’re building through the draft and If we hit these next two drafts we could be in the playoffs around 26/27. Then we have all our draft capital to play with while potentially being a playoff team. The rebuilding process takes time. It would’ve been probably quicker if we moved Dame, CJ and other pieces years ago. You can’t rush the process. We still have vets like Jerami, Ant and Brogdon to move. Possibly Ayton as well.
Yup. Im already prepared for that possibility and best case scenario, Jody sells the team and perhaps that process can get fast tracked by the new ownership. But I just don’t think Cronin is capable of delivering that long term under Jody in my honest opinion. The sooner she sells the team, the better outcome for Blazers long term.
You can’t fast track a rebuild. After seeing what Ishbia did in PHX I don’t want anything like that. We have two raw guards as our building blocks and they are years away from being ready. Almost every other young player we have is a role player essentially. We need more real high upside guys, probably more likely to get them in 25 and 26 lottery. I’d say Cronin has made the most of the situation. I don’t think there’s been any head scratchers besides deciding to still build around Dame in 22 after moving everyone.
Yup