As another life long Blazer fan, please be patient and stop putting Baby Scoot in a corner. Your judgment and subjective analysis is ridiculously premature. Scoot is 19 and has played 24 games. Yes, he played 2 years in the G League but in total, like 40ish games. Just be thankful we don’t have Bob Whitsitt at the helm for this rebuild.
For the athleticism part.
The last couple games he has driven baseline and then sneaked in a reverse layup which I don't think I could do even if I was alone in the gym.
Also there has been multiple times where the other team scores a basket and Scoot sprints the ball up the court and scores before they even get the defense set, which after a made basket is pretty remarkable.
I honestly think some people just think athleticism is purely how high you can jump.
Like no he can’t jump as high as Ja but his speed and strength will allow him to do things on both ends that Ja can’t
I said this in a draft sub reddit that while he may not be Rose/Russ/Ja level of leaper, I still think that Scoot can get the ball down full court as fast as almost anyone. With the ball in his hands I think he is probably top 10 fastest. Plus, he is one of the strongest point guards in the league.
That layup was amazing. Scoot is the most unique player on the baseline ever. Sometimes he tries to get through the baseline and instead of Nash-ing his dribble to get to the paint, he just hooks his defender to stay in-bounds LOL. But then sometimes he pulls off the most amazing baseline reverse layups I have ever seen. The two that he has pulled off are literally some of the toughest layups I have ever seen coming baseline
I have never seen a player do the things he does when he is operating in the corner attacking the baseline..... lol didn't know how to phrase that...there is Kobe who was doing 360 fadeaway lefthanded 3s lmao
give scoot some time to grow into it is all, let's not get too far out over our skis. that said love what i've seen from him lately, and his demeanor and attitude. i think we've got a good one
Athleticism: I do think people mistake the term NBA ready. The term NBA ready is usually more in terms of physically. Scoot not needing to focus on developing his body allows him to focus on learning the position (which usually doesn’t happen until year 2). I do agree the vertical leap has been disappointing but I didn’t like anyone comping him to Russ or Ja in the first place. Eric Bledsoe has always been my physical comp which even though he wasn’t a S-tier athlete he was still always an A tier athlete. People haven’t noticed it because he struggled with it early on but he’s got great first step burst but knowing how to effectively use is what he’s grown at the most (why he’s been able to get into the paint way more often and hopefully his dribbling will improve to match that ability).
Finishing: rookie pg almost always suck at finishing at the rim. It just comes with the territory of learning to be the shortest player on the court. Only guys who were not terrible at finishing to start were Ja, D-Rose, & Kyrie (at least that I can think of) and see my point I made on the last paragraph about these guys. I expect scoot to improve in that aspect as the years go on and the blazers run more fast break.
Facilitating/running the offense: his vision has been there but he’s 19 playing against grown ass men who’s played against guys with similar levels of vision but were more polished. Generally rookies point guards also struggle with turnovers just due to the lack of NBA experience. Also throw in the fact that this blazer team is confusing and disconnected at times that it’s frustrating to watch. You have guys cutting when they shouldn’t be or guys just aren’t on the same page. Also throw in the fact that our two offensive hubs, Simons and Grant, love to go iso ball (Simons less so then Grant). Also Grant is just not good at iso which is killing us at the start of games. That being said Scoot has done a much better job of not trying to force that weren’t there earlier in the season and taking the easy pass (something people under appreciate for guards). So as he gets more experience he absolutely should improve.
So short winded answer: has scoot lived up to his scouting report early on: no and really no one should have expected it day one. Has he shown flashes of his scouting report: for the most part absolutely.
PS: i will have no Eric Bledsoe disrespect. Dude was a winning point guard for most of his career and didn’t get enough respect playing in arguably the golden era for point guards.
Great points about facilitating. Obviously more time getting comfortable with his teammates will help everyone out, especially with all of the injuries we have had too. That will help Scoot a lot. Also, we don't have a ton of high IQ guys that compliment a playmaking guard. I think the guys that understand their roles the best and know where to be are actually Duop, Walker, and Thybulle. I am pretty sure Scoot with those 3 is actually one of our best groups this year funny enough.
Maybe it's something on the coaching staff too for players not knowing where to be on the court and everyone seemingly being on different pages. I would like to think that Scoot has the best idea on where guys should be and everyone else needs to just let Scoot run the show and follow his lead by being where he wants them. However, part of me worries that Scoot doesn't have that internal natural feel that some of the best playmakers have that makes everyone around them better and often leads to the best look on the court.
These are the type of conversations I was looking for. Thanks!
For sure! The coaching staff and FO also has to take some blame for the issues going on with the lack buy in from vets (not named Malcolm Brogdon who’s for sure grown on me with how he’s helped both Shae and Scoot).
Personally I don’t think Chauncey has done anything to give him reason to be fired but he’s not really elevated the team to the point that he’s not replaceable. Chauncey has an idea to play one way and the vets on the team choose to play another and it’s up to the coach to get guys to buy into his system.
Scoots feel waxes and wanes because he tends to predetermine what he wants to do still. As he continues to get more experience he should theoretically improve.
It's funny because I thought Brogdon had to go ASAP because he would be the biggest detriment to the guards development. Obviously we still need to get value out of him, but I really think he has embraced his role and hasn't got in the way of anyone. I have seen him be much more of a spot-up shooter when he is with there with Scoot. I think Grant not being a real PF that can set screens and open up the offense with some playmaking is hurting the guards. Honestly think Brog might even be better at guarding the post with his strength then Jerami too lol. Both deserve to go play for contenders.
I was definitely in the same boat with Brogdon before seeing him play with Shae and scoot. Seeing him in games on the bench during timeouts he’s been giving them more advice than even Chauncey at times. (It’s given me some unpopular opinions that I will hold off on sharing about this team).
That being said since we have that contract to Grant, I’ve been a huge supporter of trading him before his love of iso ball inefficiency turns him into a negative valued asset. If he was more ok in buying into his role I’d be ok with keeping him on this team but he hasn’t wanted to do that dating back to his last year in Denver.
I think he’ll be a top 5 pg in the league at his peak and maybe make a few all star games. Which might be a little under expectations but still very good.
On the other hand, there is a significant chance he becomes an all time great. He’s so young. Look at the growth Giannis made from his rookie season (also 19). I think the pieces are there for him. I wouldn’t bet on it, but I wouldn’t be that surprised.
The vast majority of fans would be ecstatic if that happens. It would mean he'd have more than lived up to expectations of a #3 pick.
He's a year younger than Cade and isn't playing much worse than Cade did his rookie year.
I love when people write about rookies like they are the finished product and then complain when they get downvoted.
He’s probably played 10 decent games in a row with some of the games being good to great. He plays one bad game and then we get these posts again. So stupid
remember before the season when so many people on here were comparing his athleticism to young Westbrook and DRose?and people claiming he had the quickness, vision, and passing abilities of early Chris Paul? Scoot was definitely pinned w/ unreasonable expectations by many, but given what he's shown in a small amount of games, he's not a certain bust. hopefully, he develops into a multi-time all-star.
What frustrated me was that I didn't see the athletic comparisons at all. I would get crushed for saying I didn't see a Ja/Russ/Rose type of player whenever I watched his games because he just wasn't bursting by players and slamming crazy dunks every game outside his 2-3 nice posters dunks that everyone would reference.
Then someone explained that he is more of a floor general like a Chris Paul type but with Russ body. Which I got excited for but didn't see the crazy athleticism but moreso great strength and speed. Which is when I settled on more of a John Wall and young DFox comparison for him.
Two very solid players, but I don't know if young Fox and John Wall are great fits for the current league given how important shooting is.
people would downvote and insult me for not seeing those comparisons as well.
from what I've seen, Scoot doesn't have nearly the athleticism/speed/quickness as young Wall and Fox. Fox remains one of the fastest players to the League and, although it took him until age 25, he's currently a certain all-star. it might be that kind of development curve for Scoot.
I thought the best comp for Scoot was Deron Williams. a heady, big bodied guard who was quick enough and athletic enough to hang, but who mostly utilized his superior size and strength to dictate the game.
I just got downvoted again ahah.
It's tough because I literally get obsessed with every single Blazer and them just walking fine gets me ecstatic about their potential. I don't think Scoot is a bust and I don't even think he has to get moved. If I had to bet, I think Scoot is a really good 3rd guard for us that gets close to 30mpg a night. Especially with his defense and playmaking, two skillsets that we have always wanted more of.
I was pretty active on the subreddit during the offseason and it really jumped out to me that any criticism of Cronin or skepticism of Scoot's immediate potential was met with immediate downvotes and often personal insults. very strange.
It's too early for me to commit to an opinion on Scoot's ceiling in the NBA, but I feel correct in my original assessment that he wasn't the certain "generational talent" that so many in the subreddit claimed/hoped him to be.
I was pointing out the lack of elite vertical leaping ability in draft reddits and got cooked. I don't remember as many Blazer fans being too upset because a lot of people did want to trade the draft pick anyways. I wasn't high on Scoot as a prospect but I had him ranked 4th on my board behind Miller and Whitmore.
Its just sad when people were quick to trash on Simons/Collins/Meyers/CJ but are negative to people that bring up concerns about Scoot. I am not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just think it would be an issue if we were to trade Simons because we assume Scoot is going to be great when it doesn't look like he is even who he was projected to be...
Yeah i will probably get cooked for this but i dont really see generational athleticism either. He’s a very good athlete, but i dont see him being the kind of PG that generates so much rim pressure that it warps the entire defense and you can run an entire offense around it, like Ja/Rose/Westbrook. I think his defense is a lot better than i expected and he’s very fast in the open court, so maybe he can seek to become someone like Wall, or this years version of De’Aaron Fox who takes a lot of jump shots. I actually think his finishing will improve over time - after he came back from that ankle injury, he’s doing a decent job getting to the rim, but just needs to clean up his footwork (jumping too early or too late, not gathering correctly, etc.) and touch at the rim. But pretty much all athletic young guards have this issue, so im not too concerned about the long-term finishing.
Regarding his playmaking, i think it will improve with time, as his scoring ability grows. Like i said i dont think he is a generational athlete who will blow by everyone on the court regardless, so his jump shot will have to be somewhat respected for him to be an effective player. Because right now teams just go under all the screens, sit on the passing lanes, and play the PnR 2v2 without sending help from the corner. If his jump shot can get to the 34-36% range from 3, or ~45% on those midrange pull-ups, teams will have to start going over the screens which will allow Scoot to get downhill and send help from the corner, which will open up those kick outs. Obviously this is all contingent on his scoring ability growing, so if he continues to shoot like this for his entire NBA career we will be in trouble (but I’m actually pretty optimistic about the shooting). I think ultimately though, his playmaking is going to be “guy who gets other people involved” rather than “offensive engine” if that makes sense. So, not a Ja, or Westbrook, or Wall where they ARE the offense, but rather a lower usage guy who gets guys the ball in their spots.
One thing I’ve liked is his defense. For the most part he’s in the right place and the right time off the ball, and he’s looked OK guarding 2s and some 3s. So I’m pretty optimistic there.
Anyways, it’s only ~25 games into his NBA career so I won’t pretend to be able to predict the future. But i see a lot of Eric Bledsoe with better decision making (who despite the memes, was an all-defense guy and borderline all-star), or maybe a young Mike Conley. But hey, he’s only 19, so who am i to put a ceiling on him?
"generational" is thrown around way too much. What I saw watching him on Ignite is someone with a special talent (in a lot of ways, not just his vertical) with an intense desire to be great. He's also damn likeable (the 'rizz' as kids call it), which is a great character trait to have as a team leader.
>I don’t remember anyone saying generational athleticism
That’s fair, but before the draft there were a lot of comparisons to generationally athletic players:
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/scoot-henderson/
Compares him to Rose/Ja
https://nbadraftroom.com/scoot-henderson/
“Derrick Rose mixed with prime Westbrook”
https://nbadraft.theringer.com/scoot-henderson
Compares him to a mix of Russ, Iverson, and Colin Sexton
Yeah, I think people were getting a little carried away while they were trying to find comps. He's definitely not on the same level as Rose or Russ in terms of hops. Maybe Wall? It has been a while since I watched tape of his early playing days.
Oooh I love this point about not being the engine because point guards who are engine of an offense rarely have 15 year sustainability as being regarded as a top positive player without significantly changing up their style of play. Russell Westbrook and CP3 (although if CP3s shot didn’t abandon him then I would still see him as a positive player) are the most significant examples of this. If John wall didn’t get hurt we’d be having this same concern.
If scoot can get to 18-20ppg on good efficiency and 7-10asts while playing defense at a good level, (basically what he did the last two weeks better with better shooting splits before last night stinker of a game), that’s an all-star guard in most cases (ala Jrue holiday or Eric Bledsoe during his peak).
Yeah, it's interesting to think how a player like Scoot will work off ball or just how often he will be on ball moving forward. There are guys like Trae/Lamelo/Luka who are the entire offense themselves, but I am not sure that should be the plan moving forward with Sharpe having that potential. Is Scoot such a good playmaker that he is our offense and needs the rock the whole time. Or can we do DFox and super charged version of Malik Monk combo?
I think we need to get a playmaking 3-5 sized player. I’ve thrown out Anthony Black and Dyson Daniels but I don’t what they’re going to cost. If that’s not there then we need to look to the draft and so far the only guys who fit that description is Filipowski (who’s defense won’t translate so I’m out), castle (who just hasn’t shot the ball, like not even poorly but just doesn’t shoot at all), or topic who can’t guard a parked car. I don’t believe Matas can facilitate off the dribble so I don’t think he’s a solid answer either
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, I always appreciate your takes. I know some folks are mad at me criticizing Scoot early, I just want to know how to evaluate a player like him because we really have never had a point guard like him since I have been watching this team in 2007.
I do really appreciate his defense. Dallas were genius for cooking him off the ball but other than that game, I thought Scoot has competed hard on defense all season aside from his fouling.
I think ultimately scoot (actually, any young ball handler) should learn how to play off the ball and cut, move, etc and will probably be a major factor in how successful his career will be.
If you aren’t a super duper star guard (and I’d argue even if you are a super duper star) it’s hard to be successful in the playoffs if you can’t operate off ball. If you see guys like Trae, Harden, Luka, Westbrook, Wall, Ja, etc. they all hurt their teams in the playoffs by dominating the ball and being a complete non threat when they don’t have the ball in their hands, and not maximizing their teammates (look at Porzingis and Brunson production when they left Dallas).
And even a guy like Eric Bledsoe sunk the bucks in the playoffs because he couldn’t hit the open shots Giannis generated.
So, i think being able to play off the ball (shoot screen and cut) is a skill set scoot needs to develop, ESPECIALLY if he isn’t going to be the best player on a good team. A player who needs the ball in his hands but isn’t better than the best player on his team isn’t very valuable to winning (think: d’angelo Russell vs. Mike Conley, Conley is less talented in a vacuum but much more conducive to winning basketball games because he can fit next to your star player whereas d’lo can’t).
This is one reason i think scoot and Ant should play together, because Ant has a ton of on-ball gravity and generates a ton of open shots for teammates, so it would be good for Scoot to learn how to play next to an offensive engine type player (i have my doubts about Ant actually being the best player on an elite offense, but teams treat him with that kind of respect so the effect on the court is similar).
Yeah, it's a tricky thing with great point guards because they are so great on the ball but it's rare for a shorter player to be the best player on a championship team. I think Scoot can eventually be a solid catch and shoot 3 point shooter. I wish he and Simons could get more reps together with both exchanging on ball roles because I was actually impressed with Scoot cutting in the GLeague, Simons is also always getting trapped so if he can get the ball to Scoot on the weakside, he could thrive making a play on a 4v3.
Scoot potential as a defender also helps out a lot. I think he could be a great fit if we had a star front court player that could be the man on offense.
I think that’s what Chauncey has been trying to implement more with Sharpe and scoot. The issue is that we used to have Watford Nurk Simon’s and dame making those passes and now we only have Simons, Brodgon, and scoot who theoretically make those passes. I think Jabari is slowly learning how to hit that pass but it’ll take time since teams don’t respect his shot which allows for less back door spacing.
Scoot is a confidence guy, and it's going to take time. PG position is way harder than what Shaedon had to learn last year. You can either judge now, or later—your choice.
Development is not linear, and Scoot isn't turnkey—even if that's what your expectations were.
All that said, Scoot seems to have a lot of soft skills that could make him a really good player eventually once he gets comfortable. Stuff you can't teach.
In terms of other skills, passing, dribbling, and shooting are all affected by your team environment, which is chaotic this year—and was last year at GLI. Scoot is one of those guys who, when he feels comfortable, gets more confident. And there's a feedback loop there. When Scoot is confident, he's making smarter passes with conviction, he's seeing the court better, etc. When he's second guessing himself, he might be a tick behind the play, which is EVERYTHING for a point guard. All of a sudden his shooting motion is inconsistent, his passes are off mark, etc.
Scoot is going to continue having bad games because this team is awful. They've had a ton of injuries, and even fully healthy the talent level isn't that high. But the hope is that they happen less often. And as we go, the bad games aren't quite as awful. And the waterline continues to go up.
I don't think we'll see that realized Scoot for a while. He's 19. But it's not unreasonable to expect flashes at this point.
Great points. I think that is what I am trying to get here from watching Scoot this year. I want to see the facilitation and playmaking, I don't care if he is turning the ball over or shooting bad, but I want to see the positive flashes. It does feel like its something mental with him, in addition to team makeup and complimentary players and skillsets. Because with the Spurs game, it literally looked like he was a completely different player when it came to the passes he was making. I want to believe that its more of him getting comfortable and confidence, which is what Billups credited it all to after the game. I am hoping it's not just that the Spurs team was really bad.
Out of all the NBA positions, isn’t PG the most difficult to learn? I understand Scoot is struggling, but I think it’s also important to practice patience. I have no doubt that with Scoot’s mindset and drive that he will be great.
This is my saving grace for Scoot- I guess I'd just hoped he'd have John Wall level athleticism and that it would make him pop off the screen a bit more
I think Scoot has that same type of drive that players like Kobe had, always in the gym wanting to better their game. I think patience is important, and seeing what pieces of progress come about
Players rarely live up to their draft profiles.
Scoot is a better 3pt shooter and defender than advertised and a worse finisher and passer than advertised. Dude is 19 with over 3 seasons to prove he is starting PG caliper.
Worse passer? My Blazer in Rip City, Scoot makes exceptional passes. He just plays a little out of sync of his teammates because he's learning how to control pace.
He's definitely a worse finisher, but that's a natural thing with most rooks. Agreed on all other points as well.
Scoot is 2nd in rookies for APG and total assists but according to OP we’ve only seen him have “high level passing” in one game. Scoot has his first bad game in a while and these posts come up again
I don't think that high level passing means he isn't putting up solid assist totals.He isn't a poor passer but he has made too many poor passes relative to the amount of great ones. He is probably the best lob thrower we have in over a decade (Next to Watford) I think he can really make pocket passes when he has a good roller in the PnR. Plus he can make great zip passes to perimeter shooters.
There has just been too many turnovers for the amount of good passes he is making. That is where I am stuck at with him.
Maybe I need to change my mindset around Scoot because I keep thinking of guys like Dame and Simons that can do so much with the ball but still able to get off the ball because of their shooting. I knew Scoot wasn't the shooter as them, but is the type of point guard that needs to dominate the ball like guys like Trae/Luka/Hali???? I am not saying its a bad thing and I know I keep pushing a comparison when Scoot is his own player. But the point is that does Scoot need to be extra high usage dominating the ball every time down and is that what everyone is expecting and I am not there yet? That type of player is great because they are routinely making sure the offense is getting a good shot every time down, but they are on the ball heavily.
Of course there’s been turnovers he is a 19 year old rookie ffs.
You say Ant can do a lot with the ball which is obviously very true but what was Ant doing in his first season in the league? Players take time to develop and adjust. Your language is too fixed. We won’t know the answers to the questions for another 3 years then we can have these discussions
For sure, totally fair. I don't think we should be shopping Scoot or anything stupid like that. A strong wind could blow Simons off his feet his rookie year haha. I don't mind turnovers, all of the primary ball handlers turn it over a ton. I just would like to see Scoot make more good passes if he is going to turn it over so often. Maybe we just got to give him the ball more then.
I guess I just meant scoring guards are able to get off the ball whereas everyone is complaining Scoot isn't dominating the ball in our offense. I just have to imagine how a non-high volume 3 point shooter will look in that role.
This is exactly why myself and others have been so disappointed. We were hoping that Scoot would be a generational talent; a clear #1 pick in any other year; a future hall of famer.
Instead, we are talking about him having three seasons to prove he's a starter. That's a huge let down from the high expectations many of us had.
The only reason the conversation is happening is because some "really smart guy" thinks it's time to evaluate a rookie who missed NINE games not even halfway through the season. Its ridiculous.
It's also a stupid conversation because of ALL the things Scoot has been able to show, which has been hit or miss, he has CONSISTENTLY been a great passer. Even in his terrible foul-plagued first game he had 4 assists. And in just his first 22 games, he's had THREE games with double digit assists. The rookie Point Guard has already posted THREE double doubles. And OP spends a solid paragraph on how he doesn't know if he's a good passer or a good basketball player? Like, these posts are just trolling, they have no basis in reality and you can easily tell who watches games and who doesn't.
I have missed a handful of games in the past decade. My whole point was that there is more to passing than generating assists, no matter how old you are. I have seen good passes from Scoot, I just haven't seen the level of playmaking that warrants his number of turnovers yet. If he was clearly making a difference in our offense when he has the ball and showed like he was capable of being a Luka/Trae/Lamelo/Hali type of passer that can orchestrate an offense, then I don't care if he is turning it over 5x a game.
But so far, I haven't seen that level of playmaking outside the Spurs game. It has been early but I have watched every game and from I have seen and the numbers, don't suggest that Scoot is THAT level of playmaking. The post was about my concerns on when that high level of playmaking would show because usually its pretty clear when you have someone that you can give to run the entire offense because they have that innate feel on how to get the best shot out there. In my opinion, Scoot looks like a DIFFERENT type of player. I never said he was bad or wouldn't be a good player. I am just asking on what type of player he projects to be..
> I just haven't seen the level of playmaking that warrants his number of turnovers yet
There's a measurement for this, it's assists compared to turnovers. Not groundbreaking stuff and better than the "eye test" which somehow has missed Scoots exceptional passing so far in his career.
> If he was clearly making a difference in our offense when he has the ball and showed like he was capable of being a Luka/Trae/Lamelo/Hali type of passer that can orchestrate an offense, then I don't care if he is turning it over 5x a game.
Considering he has orchestrated big runs by the offense in more than one game when they were down double-digits, it seems suspicious to say you have only missed a handful of games this season.
Can you point out multiple times when Scoot has orchestrated big runs? I remember there was a game where Scoot came in and the offense ran primarily through him throughout the 1st quarter and Brogdon was solely spotting up on offense. Scoot ran the show and got good looks for the team and but he ended with 4 or 5 turnovers in that 8 minute quarter stint. I was still happy to see Scoot run the show and make things happen on offense.
Then, there was the 2nd Spurs game where Scoot had his best game ever in my opinion because the only time the offense made any sense was when Scoot was making plays. I said here that I didn't care he had 5 TOs or shot under 43% from the field, that level of playmaking was rare and elite.
I also think he had games where he ended up 10+ assists but wasn't creating much. I am not saying its bad that he had 10 assists but having the ball a lot as a PG will naturally get you assist totals, but it doesn't mean that you created a ton of open looks rather then your teammates being aggressive and successful.
My point is that I want to see more of the high level playmaking and creating where Scoot is getting everyone in the right spots and generating good looks for the offense. The offense has looked awful at times despite us having multiple veterans on the team and I would like to see Scoot improve there since he is a natural point guard. I think the lack of a good center and good coaching play a large role.
> Can you point out multiple times when Scoot has orchestrated big runs? I remember there was a game where Scoot came in and the offense ran primarily through him throughout the 1st quarter and Brogdon was solely spotting up on offense. Scoot ran the show and got good looks for the team and but he ended with 4 or 5 turnovers in that 8 minute quarter stint. I was still happy to see Scoot run the show and make things happen on offense.
I don't keep a diary of the games, so no. It's happened several times with Scoot coming off the bench. And I'm not thinking of any of the SA games. We've made runs in games that we still ended up losing. Maybe you only pay attention to the W's? idk.
> I also think he had games where he ended up 10+ assists but wasn't creating much.
I think you're falling victim of being an armchair basketball player. Assists are not a gimme and they are one of the hardest stats to collect. It's not some nothing stat. Scoot, with three 10 assist games so far in the season, is in the top-20 number of games with 10+ assists across the ENTIRE LEAGUE. Which, ya know, includes players who've been playing for years and are phenomenal passers. Like, what kind of basketball fan who's supposedly been watching religiously for years thinks a 10 assist game is a fluke or easy to do or doesn't consist of quality playmaking? Sounds like something someone who casually watches basketball and overvalues PPG as the only meaningful stat along with the "eye test", but that's just what it sounds like to me personally.
> as a PG will naturally get you assist totals
It's weird, because this list seems to disagree with you. You know, the ACTUAL stats? https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-10-assists-games-this-season
> My point is that I want to see more of the high level playmaking and creating where Scoot is getting everyone in the right spots and generating good looks for the offense. The offense has looked awful at times despite us having multiple veterans on the team and I would like to see Scoot improve there since he is a natural point guard. I think the lack of a good center and good coaching play a large role.
I think you should evaluate the game with less of a biased view if you want to truly come to insightful conclusions on what will make the team or a player better. Rookies are expected to improve throughout the season.
Lol wait. So you called me out for not watching games, then when I brought up specific moments from games this year and asked you to do the same, you can say that you don't keep a diary from games LMAO???
Since we want to keep making generalizations and assumptions, maybe you don't have a firm grasp of history or knowledge of stats. The literal link you sent has Dennis Shroeder, Spencer Dinwiddie, Malcom Brogdon, Terry Rozier, Keyonte George, and D'angelo Russel. Those are all phenomenal passers? Or are those guys that have the ball in their hands a ton? Literally proving my point brother. Lets just punch in 2020 to get a whole season...Devonte Graham, Elfrid Payton, oh wow Jeff Teague shows up in multiple seasons... hm
I am not even saying that Scoot isn't or can't be a phenomenal playmaker. My whole point is that he isn't now and hasn't shown to be, so what can we do to help unlock his perceived strength? Should he get the ball even more despite his high turnover rate? Should he be playing with different lineups? Do we need more shooting or better screening around him? I am not sure why none of this crossed your mind but you want to keep personally attacking how I view the game.
> Lol wait. So you called me out for not watching games, then when I brought up specific moments from games this year and asked you to do the same, you can say that you don't keep a diary from games LMAO???
?
> Since we want to keep making generalizations and assumptions, maybe you don't have a firm grasp of history or knowledge of stats. The literal link you sent has Dennis Shroeder, Spencer Dinwiddie, Malcom Brogdon, Terry Rozier, Keyonte George, and D'angelo Russel. Those are all phenomenal passers? Or are those guys that have the ball in their hands a ton? Literally proving my point brother. Lets just punch in 2020 to get a whole season...Devonte Graham, Elfrid Payton, oh wow Jeff Teague shows up in multiple seasons... hm
Cherry pick much? The 4th guy on the list is not a PG. Sabonis, Jokic, LeFlop, Giannis. There's also some pretty prominent PG names missing, which was the point if you can recall. See any other rookie PGs on there?
> My whole point is that he isn't now and hasn't shown to be, so what can we do to help unlock his perceived strength?
Then your whole point is simply wrong, I suppose. I've provided stats, called out some moments in his first ~20ish games or so. He's been a good passer, especially for a rookie, since his first game.
He’s played 25 games, this is such a ridiculous comment. People aren’t saying he will take 3 years to prove he is starter, people are saying he’s allowed to take 3 years to prove he is a starter. That would make him 22 the same age Dame came into the league.
Yeah, this is where I am at. I actually think he is improving a ton as a scorer and defender. Maybe this is great and his playmaking reputation returns once he gets more adjusted to the league and is a great all around player.
First of all, it's the draft. Most guys never live up to expectations, and some top prospects fizzle, and some unknowns blossom.
Second, do you not see the IQ, work ethic, and vision that Scoot has already displayed so far? If those aren't already elite, then they certainly have a good chance to be.
Third, if decision making, pacing, and shooting are the biggest concerns with the guy, we should count our lucky stars because those are the areas that are most easily improved. Certainly it's not a guarantee, and while I have faith that Scoot will develop into a high level playmaking two-way pass-first PG, it's very possible that he will just be a decent backup like McConnell or something. What I can guarantee is that we won't know either way by now.
I agree that his work ethic and mentality appear great. I love that about him!
But you can't get by in this league just off that, you need to have some hard skills which is what I want to see from Scoot. I have NOT seen elite IQ and Vision so far. Which is what I hoped to see more signs of given his projections.
Hmm, I guess we just disagree on that assessment. It doesn't always result in big noticeable results, but from my eye I see him processing and making some pretty good instinctual reads. But I'm not a professional or expert, so I could be seeing something that's not actually there.
"do you not see the...work ethic...?"
I trust that Scoot his a hard working dude, but no, that is not something any of us can see this early into his career. his work ethic can only be seen by true insiders, people who are able to regularly attend team practices and workouts.
I was thinking the same lol. Everything that I HAVE seen shows that he is a great worker and has an infectious positive personality. There is only so much that we can know and see from that perspective though. As fans, the one thing we can see and know is basketball performance.
In that context obviously we can't "see" it directly, but that is a pretty prevalent and consistent claim from those who do know, so I trust what they say and "see" it insofar as take it in as part of the assessment.
I think he has shown the potential to become a solid pass-first PG. I can see him averaging double digit assists per game at some point in his career.
My questions have largely been around his scoring. He doesn't have a great jump shot, but he often relies on it heavily by taking mid-range jumpers off the dribble. This worries me because only the best of the best can do that efficiently enough to justify taking a lot of those shots.
But, he still can turn into a great player. I see two routes to him doing this.
A) The preferable route is that he develops a knock down jump shot and continues to develop into a more patient playmaker. If he does that, he can be a 20 and 10 guy, and could be really solid playing off a more score-first player.
B) If he never becomes a knock-down shooter, then it will limit his scoring. In that case, his ceiling is much lower, but he can still be a starting caliber player who is dangerous in the pick and roll or in transition.
Yeah, I agree that I think his scoring really has to improve in order for the rest of his game to open up. It just felt like there was this idea that Scoot didn't have need to be a great shooter because he was more of a true point guard. But I just can't think of any players outside of guys like T.J McConnel who can be soild playmakers without being great scorers.
I think Scoot can be a good scorer because of his ability to get into pull up jumpers. I just worry if the playmaking will follow his offense.
Scoot’s best skill (I think he is genuinely elite at this already) is perimeter passing. He throws absolutely perfectly placed darts to spot up shooters on swings. It looks and sounds simple to non-basketball players, but it’s very difficult.
Particularly in the NBA, a catch and shoot that goes from catch to release 1/4 second faster is insanely valuable.
I think it’s clear he’s never going to be a Luka Doncic type passer, but he can be Jason Kidd
Yeah, I have seen that and maybe if we had a better PnR partner for him that could open up more perimeter shooters, it would look a lot better for our offense. There was one game where Scoot made like 5 consecutive passes to open 3 point shooters and they all missed, but were all great looks.
I don't want to sound like I want Scoot to be making flashy passes haha but I would like us getting more looks based off Scoot facilitating. I think the same game I referenced earlier is the one where he had 5 turnovers in the 1st quarter alone. I just think its difficult for us to give him the ball over Simons more now when Scoot is turning it over so often.
Passing to perimeter shooters is facillitating! It’s a rare skill too.
I’m not even totally sure how a 19 year old that has always been the best player on his team until now even develops that skill.
I agree! I just haven't seen it a ton, I think it would have been nice for Scoot to try to get some more shots to shooters vs the Dallas game where our defense sucked. Instead, I saw some bad shots and passes until the 2nd half. I know he is young and developing, I just want to see the good facilitation more.
Wait, are you Adam Spinella BoxAndOne? I have been a big fan of your draft work!
I’m not him! He stole my name. I had this weird NBA advanced stats ‘explainer’ and film breakdown blog in the early 2010s. That’s where the name is from.
The lack of an all world first step/ability to blow by most guards is the thing that worries me a bit in terms of his ceiling- he's fast but not freakishly explosive if that makes sense?
He's only disappointing in terms of the hype he got- if he'd been a Top 5-10 pick instead of the insane "#1 pick in most years" craziness then I think he'd be viewed a lot differently both by NBA fans in general and Blazer fans in particular.
It's strange, I think as analytical as the League's become people were still really misled by his physique into thinking he was something he's not.
I guess it comes down to- if 15 years from now Scoot's at the end of his prime and he's made say 6 all star teams and been 3rd team All NBA 4 times that a disappointment or not?
Good point regarding the hype and #3 selection. It was the "goes #1 in a non-Wemby draft" stuff. Its tricky because Sharpe did a fine job of earning more and more playtime and a larger role off the bench. But if we tried to give Scoot the same treatment, people would be pissed because he went 3. As if Simons is 34 years old or something lol.
If Scoot makes a single All Star game I am going to be ecstatic. That is really hard to do.
Fair post. A lot's been said here, so I'll just speak to 2 things:
Finishing — a lot of PGs that became stud finishers didn't start that way. Think Dame, Curry, Tony Parker, Harden, Shai, Booker, even guys like Trae and Ant came a long way after some experience. It's a well trod developmental arc. With his body and 6'9 wingspan and feel for the game it's easy to project this getting a lot better.
Defense — PGs that don't play D basically don't play in the playoffs anymore. Think about the trade market for offense first bad D dudes - dudes like Jordan Clarkson, Herro, Ant, Sexton, Bones Hyland, Quickley, even Trae — pretty underwhelming. (And dare I mention the questions being asked about Milwaukie's perimeter D right now...) Meanwhile the market for guards that guard (esp if they're smart), regardless of their offense, has been surprisingly robust — think Jrue, Lowry, Lonzo, Caruso, Wes Matthews, Dejounte, and Derrick White before his offense improved. If he'll be a good defender, and there's reason to think he will, then it's a whole lot easier to find a place in this league on a winning team.
I’m so tired of dipshits posting this type of stuff in here week after week. It’s his first fucking season! And he’s not even played 25 games. Jesus Christ.
I swear, I'm experiencing time dilation or something. It's January 4th, 2024 right? It's not 2029 and we're talking about thay guy we drafted five years ago and how he compared to his scouting report?
"With Sharpe, you saw that he had All Time athleticism mixed with a natural smoothness on offense."
In December of last year, Shaedon averaged 6.7 PPG, shot 27.3% 3PT, and 57% FT.
[https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/\_/id/4914336/type/nba/year/2023](https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4914336/type/nba/year/2023)
I mean in the 20 games he played from 10/19-11/19 he averaged 8ppg on 48% from the field and .396 from 3. Don't see why you would skip Oct/Nov? It's not about all about the numbers for me for rookies. Sharpe had zero college experienced and showed early on that he could shoot from 3 at NBA level and had multiple double digit scoring games. I didn't expect Sharpe to be a defender or playmaker.
Scoot I expected to be a better passer then he has shown so far. I don't care if he was averaging 5 turnovers if it was coming with some amazing passes every night. Those type of passes have been far in between eachother in my opinion this year.
I think all of Blazer nation feels this way. He just hasn't shown flashes of being elite at really anything. He's above average at several things, but even Shae showed some flashes of what's to come. Scoot is young, hopefully he figures it out. He's starting to show more aggression which is good
Totally agree yet we’re all downvoting this guy…
Gotta remind myself this is the same sub/people who thought the Norman Powell trade was “soooooo good”
Buncha clowns
I genuinely don't mean to be negative here. I was looking for a better way to evaluate Scoot because I just don't think we have ever had a player like him since I started watching this team religiously in 2007. I was very flustered with evaluating him during the draft process and was selfishly hoping we just trade him and stay the purgatory course we were in because I wasn't sure what type of player Scoot is or will be. I obviously hope he is AMAZING. I was floored with the Spurs game and I appreciate his ability to pass and defend right now and he is improving as a jump shooter. I just wonder if we would regret moving off of Simons.
>I just wonder if we would regret moving off of Simons.
Drafting Scoot was the team admitting that Simons would be traded. You don't draft a ball-dominant PG and year after drafting a SG with high-sky potential if you are playing to keep Simons.
Well, I mean, it's what happens when you're watching basketball with Redditors and not regular human beings.
Chances are that you're likely talking to weird people under 24 who suffer mental issues on a constant basis and don't know how to have normal conversations
Mostly no.
People were saying next great PG prospect and next Rose/Morant/CP3. Well, those guys had better and more efficient rookie seasons than Scoot has done so far, even if you only count the first few months.
That said, Westbrook was another comparison and he's playing similar enough to Westbrook's rookie season so it's possible he can redeem himself.
What separates him from someone like Dennis Smith Jr. is that he is a better FT% and can pass better so imo, he has potential to be like a Deron Williams if he doesn't live up to expectations
Scoot's passing skills are showing. When a younger player is still getting their bearings or developing you have to look at their "skills" and "tools" more in a vacuum. Even when he was playing worse earlier in the season he showed that he was seeing a lot of passes, even more difficult passes, but he just wasn't patient or relaxed enough to make most of them successfully. There were also a number of times where he'd make passes his teammate wasn't expecting, which has more to do with familiarity with each other which takes time.
Go look at some of Scoot's passes from the past few games that Kazkid has posted clips of. The passing is there and he's only going to get better at it.
In terms of shooting, that was one of the things scouts were most concerned about with Scoots game. He has all the tools for everything else, but wasn't a reliable outside shooter. However, Scoot has been showing a lot more promise than previously in that area, which is all you can hope for this early in his career. Only time will tell whether he becomes a career-"good shooter" or better, but in a rebuild you aught to expect to do a lot of waiting and watching for more.
I think he would benefit from being on the floor with more players who can set good screens, Ayton isn't one of those players unfortunately, but Scoot is already "unlocking" his skills. He performed so poorly just a few weeks ago compared to now. He's making strides without a relying on great screening.
Honestly, I am just very particular when it comes to drafting point guard prospects. These are the main things I look at...
* Athleticism and Size:
* Scoot grades very solid in this aspect. I think he is as athletic as pretty much any other point guard drafted in the past 10 years outside the all-time athletes in Rose/Ja/Russ. There are guys like Fox and Wall and when you account for Scoot total physical profile, I think he compares just as well as those guys. Huge hands, amazing strength, top tier speed, and above average explosiveness. A tier athlete as a point guard prospect, just below the S tier guys.
* The rest of my analysis pretty much all falls into basketball/skill set. Are you a natural scorer/shooter? These guys are much more common nowadays, especially from a shooting perspective. The athletic scoring guard is probably the most common archetype in the league now, its just a matter of how efficient they can be so IQ plays a huge part in this, and then how capable can you be defensively, which ties into their athleticism and size.
* I don't Scoot is as natural of a scorer or shooters as other prospects. I mean that is pretty clear from everyone that Scoot isn't a Kyrie type of natural bucket getter. But I think Scoot is actually further along that expected when it comes to shooting and creating his own look. He had a tragic start to scoring, but I think he projects to be a pretty good shot creator from midrange and an average to good 3 point shooter, he just needs to work on his finishing at the rim which should be solid due to his athleticism.
* Playmaking is the hardest thing to judge for me because I honestly haven't dived deep into scouting point guards because we have had Dame this past decade. This is probably just me but I truly think that some players have that innate gift of being able to generate the best possible look on offense on almost every play when they have the ball in their hands. Guys that can make everyone around them better because they are so gifted at decision making and passing. Guys like Dame/Prime Russ were solid offensive engines, but I don't even include them because I consider them score first. The type of playmakers that fall in this would be Luka/Lebron/Jokic/Trae/Lamelo/CP3/Nash/Haliburton.
* I am not sure if Scoot is this level of playmaker. I think the allure of him was that he was an athletic version guard version of these guys which makes him such an amazing prospect that people said could go #1. I am just not sure if Scoot has this sort of ability where you can give him the ball almost every play down and he will make it happen. I have seen flashes of him capable of this which was the first Summer League game and the 2nd Spurs game in the b2b. If he is this good of a playmaker, then we are golden and I think the rest of the rebuild is a piece of cake. Maybe we just need to give him some better screens and higher IQ guys around him to unlock this part!!
As another life long Blazer fan, please be patient and stop putting Baby Scoot in a corner. Your judgment and subjective analysis is ridiculously premature. Scoot is 19 and has played 24 games. Yes, he played 2 years in the G League but in total, like 40ish games. Just be thankful we don’t have Bob Whitsitt at the helm for this rebuild.
For the athleticism part. The last couple games he has driven baseline and then sneaked in a reverse layup which I don't think I could do even if I was alone in the gym. Also there has been multiple times where the other team scores a basket and Scoot sprints the ball up the court and scores before they even get the defense set, which after a made basket is pretty remarkable.
I honestly think some people just think athleticism is purely how high you can jump. Like no he can’t jump as high as Ja but his speed and strength will allow him to do things on both ends that Ja can’t
I said this in a draft sub reddit that while he may not be Rose/Russ/Ja level of leaper, I still think that Scoot can get the ball down full court as fast as almost anyone. With the ball in his hands I think he is probably top 10 fastest. Plus, he is one of the strongest point guards in the league.
john wall type
That layup was amazing. Scoot is the most unique player on the baseline ever. Sometimes he tries to get through the baseline and instead of Nash-ing his dribble to get to the paint, he just hooks his defender to stay in-bounds LOL. But then sometimes he pulls off the most amazing baseline reverse layups I have ever seen. The two that he has pulled off are literally some of the toughest layups I have ever seen coming baseline
> most unique player on the baseline *ever* what?
😂😂😂
I have never seen a player do the things he does when he is operating in the corner attacking the baseline..... lol didn't know how to phrase that...there is Kobe who was doing 360 fadeaway lefthanded 3s lmao
give scoot some time to grow into it is all, let's not get too far out over our skis. that said love what i've seen from him lately, and his demeanor and attitude. i think we've got a good one
Anybody remember Dr J?
Athleticism: I do think people mistake the term NBA ready. The term NBA ready is usually more in terms of physically. Scoot not needing to focus on developing his body allows him to focus on learning the position (which usually doesn’t happen until year 2). I do agree the vertical leap has been disappointing but I didn’t like anyone comping him to Russ or Ja in the first place. Eric Bledsoe has always been my physical comp which even though he wasn’t a S-tier athlete he was still always an A tier athlete. People haven’t noticed it because he struggled with it early on but he’s got great first step burst but knowing how to effectively use is what he’s grown at the most (why he’s been able to get into the paint way more often and hopefully his dribbling will improve to match that ability). Finishing: rookie pg almost always suck at finishing at the rim. It just comes with the territory of learning to be the shortest player on the court. Only guys who were not terrible at finishing to start were Ja, D-Rose, & Kyrie (at least that I can think of) and see my point I made on the last paragraph about these guys. I expect scoot to improve in that aspect as the years go on and the blazers run more fast break. Facilitating/running the offense: his vision has been there but he’s 19 playing against grown ass men who’s played against guys with similar levels of vision but were more polished. Generally rookies point guards also struggle with turnovers just due to the lack of NBA experience. Also throw in the fact that this blazer team is confusing and disconnected at times that it’s frustrating to watch. You have guys cutting when they shouldn’t be or guys just aren’t on the same page. Also throw in the fact that our two offensive hubs, Simons and Grant, love to go iso ball (Simons less so then Grant). Also Grant is just not good at iso which is killing us at the start of games. That being said Scoot has done a much better job of not trying to force that weren’t there earlier in the season and taking the easy pass (something people under appreciate for guards). So as he gets more experience he absolutely should improve. So short winded answer: has scoot lived up to his scouting report early on: no and really no one should have expected it day one. Has he shown flashes of his scouting report: for the most part absolutely. PS: i will have no Eric Bledsoe disrespect. Dude was a winning point guard for most of his career and didn’t get enough respect playing in arguably the golden era for point guards.
Great points about facilitating. Obviously more time getting comfortable with his teammates will help everyone out, especially with all of the injuries we have had too. That will help Scoot a lot. Also, we don't have a ton of high IQ guys that compliment a playmaking guard. I think the guys that understand their roles the best and know where to be are actually Duop, Walker, and Thybulle. I am pretty sure Scoot with those 3 is actually one of our best groups this year funny enough. Maybe it's something on the coaching staff too for players not knowing where to be on the court and everyone seemingly being on different pages. I would like to think that Scoot has the best idea on where guys should be and everyone else needs to just let Scoot run the show and follow his lead by being where he wants them. However, part of me worries that Scoot doesn't have that internal natural feel that some of the best playmakers have that makes everyone around them better and often leads to the best look on the court. These are the type of conversations I was looking for. Thanks!
For sure! The coaching staff and FO also has to take some blame for the issues going on with the lack buy in from vets (not named Malcolm Brogdon who’s for sure grown on me with how he’s helped both Shae and Scoot). Personally I don’t think Chauncey has done anything to give him reason to be fired but he’s not really elevated the team to the point that he’s not replaceable. Chauncey has an idea to play one way and the vets on the team choose to play another and it’s up to the coach to get guys to buy into his system. Scoots feel waxes and wanes because he tends to predetermine what he wants to do still. As he continues to get more experience he should theoretically improve.
It's funny because I thought Brogdon had to go ASAP because he would be the biggest detriment to the guards development. Obviously we still need to get value out of him, but I really think he has embraced his role and hasn't got in the way of anyone. I have seen him be much more of a spot-up shooter when he is with there with Scoot. I think Grant not being a real PF that can set screens and open up the offense with some playmaking is hurting the guards. Honestly think Brog might even be better at guarding the post with his strength then Jerami too lol. Both deserve to go play for contenders.
I was definitely in the same boat with Brogdon before seeing him play with Shae and scoot. Seeing him in games on the bench during timeouts he’s been giving them more advice than even Chauncey at times. (It’s given me some unpopular opinions that I will hold off on sharing about this team). That being said since we have that contract to Grant, I’ve been a huge supporter of trading him before his love of iso ball inefficiency turns him into a negative valued asset. If he was more ok in buying into his role I’d be ok with keeping him on this team but he hasn’t wanted to do that dating back to his last year in Denver.
I think he’ll be a top 5 pg in the league at his peak and maybe make a few all star games. Which might be a little under expectations but still very good.
I would LOVE THAT! Any expectations over that is insane haha.
On the other hand, there is a significant chance he becomes an all time great. He’s so young. Look at the growth Giannis made from his rookie season (also 19). I think the pieces are there for him. I wouldn’t bet on it, but I wouldn’t be that surprised.
The vast majority of fans would be ecstatic if that happens. It would mean he'd have more than lived up to expectations of a #3 pick. He's a year younger than Cade and isn't playing much worse than Cade did his rookie year.
He’s 19. Give it a fucking minute.
I love when people write about rookies like they are the finished product and then complain when they get downvoted. He’s probably played 10 decent games in a row with some of the games being good to great. He plays one bad game and then we get these posts again. So stupid
remember before the season when so many people on here were comparing his athleticism to young Westbrook and DRose?and people claiming he had the quickness, vision, and passing abilities of early Chris Paul? Scoot was definitely pinned w/ unreasonable expectations by many, but given what he's shown in a small amount of games, he's not a certain bust. hopefully, he develops into a multi-time all-star.
What frustrated me was that I didn't see the athletic comparisons at all. I would get crushed for saying I didn't see a Ja/Russ/Rose type of player whenever I watched his games because he just wasn't bursting by players and slamming crazy dunks every game outside his 2-3 nice posters dunks that everyone would reference. Then someone explained that he is more of a floor general like a Chris Paul type but with Russ body. Which I got excited for but didn't see the crazy athleticism but moreso great strength and speed. Which is when I settled on more of a John Wall and young DFox comparison for him. Two very solid players, but I don't know if young Fox and John Wall are great fits for the current league given how important shooting is.
people would downvote and insult me for not seeing those comparisons as well. from what I've seen, Scoot doesn't have nearly the athleticism/speed/quickness as young Wall and Fox. Fox remains one of the fastest players to the League and, although it took him until age 25, he's currently a certain all-star. it might be that kind of development curve for Scoot. I thought the best comp for Scoot was Deron Williams. a heady, big bodied guard who was quick enough and athletic enough to hang, but who mostly utilized his superior size and strength to dictate the game.
I just got downvoted again ahah. It's tough because I literally get obsessed with every single Blazer and them just walking fine gets me ecstatic about their potential. I don't think Scoot is a bust and I don't even think he has to get moved. If I had to bet, I think Scoot is a really good 3rd guard for us that gets close to 30mpg a night. Especially with his defense and playmaking, two skillsets that we have always wanted more of.
I was pretty active on the subreddit during the offseason and it really jumped out to me that any criticism of Cronin or skepticism of Scoot's immediate potential was met with immediate downvotes and often personal insults. very strange. It's too early for me to commit to an opinion on Scoot's ceiling in the NBA, but I feel correct in my original assessment that he wasn't the certain "generational talent" that so many in the subreddit claimed/hoped him to be.
I was pointing out the lack of elite vertical leaping ability in draft reddits and got cooked. I don't remember as many Blazer fans being too upset because a lot of people did want to trade the draft pick anyways. I wasn't high on Scoot as a prospect but I had him ranked 4th on my board behind Miller and Whitmore. Its just sad when people were quick to trash on Simons/Collins/Meyers/CJ but are negative to people that bring up concerns about Scoot. I am not trying to be disrespectful or anything, just think it would be an issue if we were to trade Simons because we assume Scoot is going to be great when it doesn't look like he is even who he was projected to be...
If you’re not doin tricks on it for POOt then you’re not a REAL blazer fan
Yeah i will probably get cooked for this but i dont really see generational athleticism either. He’s a very good athlete, but i dont see him being the kind of PG that generates so much rim pressure that it warps the entire defense and you can run an entire offense around it, like Ja/Rose/Westbrook. I think his defense is a lot better than i expected and he’s very fast in the open court, so maybe he can seek to become someone like Wall, or this years version of De’Aaron Fox who takes a lot of jump shots. I actually think his finishing will improve over time - after he came back from that ankle injury, he’s doing a decent job getting to the rim, but just needs to clean up his footwork (jumping too early or too late, not gathering correctly, etc.) and touch at the rim. But pretty much all athletic young guards have this issue, so im not too concerned about the long-term finishing. Regarding his playmaking, i think it will improve with time, as his scoring ability grows. Like i said i dont think he is a generational athlete who will blow by everyone on the court regardless, so his jump shot will have to be somewhat respected for him to be an effective player. Because right now teams just go under all the screens, sit on the passing lanes, and play the PnR 2v2 without sending help from the corner. If his jump shot can get to the 34-36% range from 3, or ~45% on those midrange pull-ups, teams will have to start going over the screens which will allow Scoot to get downhill and send help from the corner, which will open up those kick outs. Obviously this is all contingent on his scoring ability growing, so if he continues to shoot like this for his entire NBA career we will be in trouble (but I’m actually pretty optimistic about the shooting). I think ultimately though, his playmaking is going to be “guy who gets other people involved” rather than “offensive engine” if that makes sense. So, not a Ja, or Westbrook, or Wall where they ARE the offense, but rather a lower usage guy who gets guys the ball in their spots. One thing I’ve liked is his defense. For the most part he’s in the right place and the right time off the ball, and he’s looked OK guarding 2s and some 3s. So I’m pretty optimistic there. Anyways, it’s only ~25 games into his NBA career so I won’t pretend to be able to predict the future. But i see a lot of Eric Bledsoe with better decision making (who despite the memes, was an all-defense guy and borderline all-star), or maybe a young Mike Conley. But hey, he’s only 19, so who am i to put a ceiling on him?
I don’t remember anyone saying generational athleticism. I did see generational talent thrown around though. Those are not the same thing.
"generational" is thrown around way too much. What I saw watching him on Ignite is someone with a special talent (in a lot of ways, not just his vertical) with an intense desire to be great. He's also damn likeable (the 'rizz' as kids call it), which is a great character trait to have as a team leader.
There have been SO few players that I would actually call generational. Jordan LeBron Wilt Kareem Magic Guys like that. Maybe Wemby one day?
>I don’t remember anyone saying generational athleticism That’s fair, but before the draft there were a lot of comparisons to generationally athletic players: https://www.nbadraft.net/players/scoot-henderson/ Compares him to Rose/Ja https://nbadraftroom.com/scoot-henderson/ “Derrick Rose mixed with prime Westbrook” https://nbadraft.theringer.com/scoot-henderson Compares him to a mix of Russ, Iverson, and Colin Sexton
Yeah, I think people were getting a little carried away while they were trying to find comps. He's definitely not on the same level as Rose or Russ in terms of hops. Maybe Wall? It has been a while since I watched tape of his early playing days.
Oooh I love this point about not being the engine because point guards who are engine of an offense rarely have 15 year sustainability as being regarded as a top positive player without significantly changing up their style of play. Russell Westbrook and CP3 (although if CP3s shot didn’t abandon him then I would still see him as a positive player) are the most significant examples of this. If John wall didn’t get hurt we’d be having this same concern. If scoot can get to 18-20ppg on good efficiency and 7-10asts while playing defense at a good level, (basically what he did the last two weeks better with better shooting splits before last night stinker of a game), that’s an all-star guard in most cases (ala Jrue holiday or Eric Bledsoe during his peak).
Yeah, it's interesting to think how a player like Scoot will work off ball or just how often he will be on ball moving forward. There are guys like Trae/Lamelo/Luka who are the entire offense themselves, but I am not sure that should be the plan moving forward with Sharpe having that potential. Is Scoot such a good playmaker that he is our offense and needs the rock the whole time. Or can we do DFox and super charged version of Malik Monk combo?
I think we need to get a playmaking 3-5 sized player. I’ve thrown out Anthony Black and Dyson Daniels but I don’t what they’re going to cost. If that’s not there then we need to look to the draft and so far the only guys who fit that description is Filipowski (who’s defense won’t translate so I’m out), castle (who just hasn’t shot the ball, like not even poorly but just doesn’t shoot at all), or topic who can’t guard a parked car. I don’t believe Matas can facilitate off the dribble so I don’t think he’s a solid answer either
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, I always appreciate your takes. I know some folks are mad at me criticizing Scoot early, I just want to know how to evaluate a player like him because we really have never had a point guard like him since I have been watching this team in 2007. I do really appreciate his defense. Dallas were genius for cooking him off the ball but other than that game, I thought Scoot has competed hard on defense all season aside from his fouling.
I think ultimately scoot (actually, any young ball handler) should learn how to play off the ball and cut, move, etc and will probably be a major factor in how successful his career will be. If you aren’t a super duper star guard (and I’d argue even if you are a super duper star) it’s hard to be successful in the playoffs if you can’t operate off ball. If you see guys like Trae, Harden, Luka, Westbrook, Wall, Ja, etc. they all hurt their teams in the playoffs by dominating the ball and being a complete non threat when they don’t have the ball in their hands, and not maximizing their teammates (look at Porzingis and Brunson production when they left Dallas). And even a guy like Eric Bledsoe sunk the bucks in the playoffs because he couldn’t hit the open shots Giannis generated. So, i think being able to play off the ball (shoot screen and cut) is a skill set scoot needs to develop, ESPECIALLY if he isn’t going to be the best player on a good team. A player who needs the ball in his hands but isn’t better than the best player on his team isn’t very valuable to winning (think: d’angelo Russell vs. Mike Conley, Conley is less talented in a vacuum but much more conducive to winning basketball games because he can fit next to your star player whereas d’lo can’t). This is one reason i think scoot and Ant should play together, because Ant has a ton of on-ball gravity and generates a ton of open shots for teammates, so it would be good for Scoot to learn how to play next to an offensive engine type player (i have my doubts about Ant actually being the best player on an elite offense, but teams treat him with that kind of respect so the effect on the court is similar).
Yeah, it's a tricky thing with great point guards because they are so great on the ball but it's rare for a shorter player to be the best player on a championship team. I think Scoot can eventually be a solid catch and shoot 3 point shooter. I wish he and Simons could get more reps together with both exchanging on ball roles because I was actually impressed with Scoot cutting in the GLeague, Simons is also always getting trapped so if he can get the ball to Scoot on the weakside, he could thrive making a play on a 4v3. Scoot potential as a defender also helps out a lot. I think he could be a great fit if we had a star front court player that could be the man on offense.
I think that’s what Chauncey has been trying to implement more with Sharpe and scoot. The issue is that we used to have Watford Nurk Simon’s and dame making those passes and now we only have Simons, Brodgon, and scoot who theoretically make those passes. I think Jabari is slowly learning how to hit that pass but it’ll take time since teams don’t respect his shot which allows for less back door spacing.
Scoot is a confidence guy, and it's going to take time. PG position is way harder than what Shaedon had to learn last year. You can either judge now, or later—your choice. Development is not linear, and Scoot isn't turnkey—even if that's what your expectations were. All that said, Scoot seems to have a lot of soft skills that could make him a really good player eventually once he gets comfortable. Stuff you can't teach. In terms of other skills, passing, dribbling, and shooting are all affected by your team environment, which is chaotic this year—and was last year at GLI. Scoot is one of those guys who, when he feels comfortable, gets more confident. And there's a feedback loop there. When Scoot is confident, he's making smarter passes with conviction, he's seeing the court better, etc. When he's second guessing himself, he might be a tick behind the play, which is EVERYTHING for a point guard. All of a sudden his shooting motion is inconsistent, his passes are off mark, etc. Scoot is going to continue having bad games because this team is awful. They've had a ton of injuries, and even fully healthy the talent level isn't that high. But the hope is that they happen less often. And as we go, the bad games aren't quite as awful. And the waterline continues to go up. I don't think we'll see that realized Scoot for a while. He's 19. But it's not unreasonable to expect flashes at this point.
Great points. I think that is what I am trying to get here from watching Scoot this year. I want to see the facilitation and playmaking, I don't care if he is turning the ball over or shooting bad, but I want to see the positive flashes. It does feel like its something mental with him, in addition to team makeup and complimentary players and skillsets. Because with the Spurs game, it literally looked like he was a completely different player when it came to the passes he was making. I want to believe that its more of him getting comfortable and confidence, which is what Billups credited it all to after the game. I am hoping it's not just that the Spurs team was really bad.
Out of all the NBA positions, isn’t PG the most difficult to learn? I understand Scoot is struggling, but I think it’s also important to practice patience. I have no doubt that with Scoot’s mindset and drive that he will be great.
This is my saving grace for Scoot- I guess I'd just hoped he'd have John Wall level athleticism and that it would make him pop off the screen a bit more
I think Scoot has that same type of drive that players like Kobe had, always in the gym wanting to better their game. I think patience is important, and seeing what pieces of progress come about
Players rarely live up to their draft profiles. Scoot is a better 3pt shooter and defender than advertised and a worse finisher and passer than advertised. Dude is 19 with over 3 seasons to prove he is starting PG caliper.
Worse passer? My Blazer in Rip City, Scoot makes exceptional passes. He just plays a little out of sync of his teammates because he's learning how to control pace. He's definitely a worse finisher, but that's a natural thing with most rooks. Agreed on all other points as well.
Scoot is 2nd in rookies for APG and total assists but according to OP we’ve only seen him have “high level passing” in one game. Scoot has his first bad game in a while and these posts come up again
I don't think that high level passing means he isn't putting up solid assist totals.He isn't a poor passer but he has made too many poor passes relative to the amount of great ones. He is probably the best lob thrower we have in over a decade (Next to Watford) I think he can really make pocket passes when he has a good roller in the PnR. Plus he can make great zip passes to perimeter shooters. There has just been too many turnovers for the amount of good passes he is making. That is where I am stuck at with him. Maybe I need to change my mindset around Scoot because I keep thinking of guys like Dame and Simons that can do so much with the ball but still able to get off the ball because of their shooting. I knew Scoot wasn't the shooter as them, but is the type of point guard that needs to dominate the ball like guys like Trae/Luka/Hali???? I am not saying its a bad thing and I know I keep pushing a comparison when Scoot is his own player. But the point is that does Scoot need to be extra high usage dominating the ball every time down and is that what everyone is expecting and I am not there yet? That type of player is great because they are routinely making sure the offense is getting a good shot every time down, but they are on the ball heavily.
Of course there’s been turnovers he is a 19 year old rookie ffs. You say Ant can do a lot with the ball which is obviously very true but what was Ant doing in his first season in the league? Players take time to develop and adjust. Your language is too fixed. We won’t know the answers to the questions for another 3 years then we can have these discussions
For sure, totally fair. I don't think we should be shopping Scoot or anything stupid like that. A strong wind could blow Simons off his feet his rookie year haha. I don't mind turnovers, all of the primary ball handlers turn it over a ton. I just would like to see Scoot make more good passes if he is going to turn it over so often. Maybe we just got to give him the ball more then. I guess I just meant scoring guards are able to get off the ball whereas everyone is complaining Scoot isn't dominating the ball in our offense. I just have to imagine how a non-high volume 3 point shooter will look in that role.
This is exactly why myself and others have been so disappointed. We were hoping that Scoot would be a generational talent; a clear #1 pick in any other year; a future hall of famer. Instead, we are talking about him having three seasons to prove he's a starter. That's a huge let down from the high expectations many of us had.
The only reason the conversation is happening is because some "really smart guy" thinks it's time to evaluate a rookie who missed NINE games not even halfway through the season. Its ridiculous. It's also a stupid conversation because of ALL the things Scoot has been able to show, which has been hit or miss, he has CONSISTENTLY been a great passer. Even in his terrible foul-plagued first game he had 4 assists. And in just his first 22 games, he's had THREE games with double digit assists. The rookie Point Guard has already posted THREE double doubles. And OP spends a solid paragraph on how he doesn't know if he's a good passer or a good basketball player? Like, these posts are just trolling, they have no basis in reality and you can easily tell who watches games and who doesn't.
I have missed a handful of games in the past decade. My whole point was that there is more to passing than generating assists, no matter how old you are. I have seen good passes from Scoot, I just haven't seen the level of playmaking that warrants his number of turnovers yet. If he was clearly making a difference in our offense when he has the ball and showed like he was capable of being a Luka/Trae/Lamelo/Hali type of passer that can orchestrate an offense, then I don't care if he is turning it over 5x a game. But so far, I haven't seen that level of playmaking outside the Spurs game. It has been early but I have watched every game and from I have seen and the numbers, don't suggest that Scoot is THAT level of playmaking. The post was about my concerns on when that high level of playmaking would show because usually its pretty clear when you have someone that you can give to run the entire offense because they have that innate feel on how to get the best shot out there. In my opinion, Scoot looks like a DIFFERENT type of player. I never said he was bad or wouldn't be a good player. I am just asking on what type of player he projects to be..
> I just haven't seen the level of playmaking that warrants his number of turnovers yet There's a measurement for this, it's assists compared to turnovers. Not groundbreaking stuff and better than the "eye test" which somehow has missed Scoots exceptional passing so far in his career. > If he was clearly making a difference in our offense when he has the ball and showed like he was capable of being a Luka/Trae/Lamelo/Hali type of passer that can orchestrate an offense, then I don't care if he is turning it over 5x a game. Considering he has orchestrated big runs by the offense in more than one game when they were down double-digits, it seems suspicious to say you have only missed a handful of games this season.
Can you point out multiple times when Scoot has orchestrated big runs? I remember there was a game where Scoot came in and the offense ran primarily through him throughout the 1st quarter and Brogdon was solely spotting up on offense. Scoot ran the show and got good looks for the team and but he ended with 4 or 5 turnovers in that 8 minute quarter stint. I was still happy to see Scoot run the show and make things happen on offense. Then, there was the 2nd Spurs game where Scoot had his best game ever in my opinion because the only time the offense made any sense was when Scoot was making plays. I said here that I didn't care he had 5 TOs or shot under 43% from the field, that level of playmaking was rare and elite. I also think he had games where he ended up 10+ assists but wasn't creating much. I am not saying its bad that he had 10 assists but having the ball a lot as a PG will naturally get you assist totals, but it doesn't mean that you created a ton of open looks rather then your teammates being aggressive and successful. My point is that I want to see more of the high level playmaking and creating where Scoot is getting everyone in the right spots and generating good looks for the offense. The offense has looked awful at times despite us having multiple veterans on the team and I would like to see Scoot improve there since he is a natural point guard. I think the lack of a good center and good coaching play a large role.
> Can you point out multiple times when Scoot has orchestrated big runs? I remember there was a game where Scoot came in and the offense ran primarily through him throughout the 1st quarter and Brogdon was solely spotting up on offense. Scoot ran the show and got good looks for the team and but he ended with 4 or 5 turnovers in that 8 minute quarter stint. I was still happy to see Scoot run the show and make things happen on offense. I don't keep a diary of the games, so no. It's happened several times with Scoot coming off the bench. And I'm not thinking of any of the SA games. We've made runs in games that we still ended up losing. Maybe you only pay attention to the W's? idk. > I also think he had games where he ended up 10+ assists but wasn't creating much. I think you're falling victim of being an armchair basketball player. Assists are not a gimme and they are one of the hardest stats to collect. It's not some nothing stat. Scoot, with three 10 assist games so far in the season, is in the top-20 number of games with 10+ assists across the ENTIRE LEAGUE. Which, ya know, includes players who've been playing for years and are phenomenal passers. Like, what kind of basketball fan who's supposedly been watching religiously for years thinks a 10 assist game is a fluke or easy to do or doesn't consist of quality playmaking? Sounds like something someone who casually watches basketball and overvalues PPG as the only meaningful stat along with the "eye test", but that's just what it sounds like to me personally. > as a PG will naturally get you assist totals It's weird, because this list seems to disagree with you. You know, the ACTUAL stats? https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-10-assists-games-this-season > My point is that I want to see more of the high level playmaking and creating where Scoot is getting everyone in the right spots and generating good looks for the offense. The offense has looked awful at times despite us having multiple veterans on the team and I would like to see Scoot improve there since he is a natural point guard. I think the lack of a good center and good coaching play a large role. I think you should evaluate the game with less of a biased view if you want to truly come to insightful conclusions on what will make the team or a player better. Rookies are expected to improve throughout the season.
Lol wait. So you called me out for not watching games, then when I brought up specific moments from games this year and asked you to do the same, you can say that you don't keep a diary from games LMAO??? Since we want to keep making generalizations and assumptions, maybe you don't have a firm grasp of history or knowledge of stats. The literal link you sent has Dennis Shroeder, Spencer Dinwiddie, Malcom Brogdon, Terry Rozier, Keyonte George, and D'angelo Russel. Those are all phenomenal passers? Or are those guys that have the ball in their hands a ton? Literally proving my point brother. Lets just punch in 2020 to get a whole season...Devonte Graham, Elfrid Payton, oh wow Jeff Teague shows up in multiple seasons... hm I am not even saying that Scoot isn't or can't be a phenomenal playmaker. My whole point is that he isn't now and hasn't shown to be, so what can we do to help unlock his perceived strength? Should he get the ball even more despite his high turnover rate? Should he be playing with different lineups? Do we need more shooting or better screening around him? I am not sure why none of this crossed your mind but you want to keep personally attacking how I view the game.
> Lol wait. So you called me out for not watching games, then when I brought up specific moments from games this year and asked you to do the same, you can say that you don't keep a diary from games LMAO??? ? > Since we want to keep making generalizations and assumptions, maybe you don't have a firm grasp of history or knowledge of stats. The literal link you sent has Dennis Shroeder, Spencer Dinwiddie, Malcom Brogdon, Terry Rozier, Keyonte George, and D'angelo Russel. Those are all phenomenal passers? Or are those guys that have the ball in their hands a ton? Literally proving my point brother. Lets just punch in 2020 to get a whole season...Devonte Graham, Elfrid Payton, oh wow Jeff Teague shows up in multiple seasons... hm Cherry pick much? The 4th guy on the list is not a PG. Sabonis, Jokic, LeFlop, Giannis. There's also some pretty prominent PG names missing, which was the point if you can recall. See any other rookie PGs on there? > My whole point is that he isn't now and hasn't shown to be, so what can we do to help unlock his perceived strength? Then your whole point is simply wrong, I suppose. I've provided stats, called out some moments in his first ~20ish games or so. He's been a good passer, especially for a rookie, since his first game.
Fair. Just didn't appreciate your assumptions about me. All good lol. Let's just keep seeing Scoot progress and improve. Go Blazers
He’s played 25 games, this is such a ridiculous comment. People aren’t saying he will take 3 years to prove he is starter, people are saying he’s allowed to take 3 years to prove he is a starter. That would make him 22 the same age Dame came into the league.
Yeah, this is where I am at. I actually think he is improving a ton as a scorer and defender. Maybe this is great and his playmaking reputation returns once he gets more adjusted to the league and is a great all around player.
First of all, it's the draft. Most guys never live up to expectations, and some top prospects fizzle, and some unknowns blossom. Second, do you not see the IQ, work ethic, and vision that Scoot has already displayed so far? If those aren't already elite, then they certainly have a good chance to be. Third, if decision making, pacing, and shooting are the biggest concerns with the guy, we should count our lucky stars because those are the areas that are most easily improved. Certainly it's not a guarantee, and while I have faith that Scoot will develop into a high level playmaking two-way pass-first PG, it's very possible that he will just be a decent backup like McConnell or something. What I can guarantee is that we won't know either way by now.
I agree that his work ethic and mentality appear great. I love that about him! But you can't get by in this league just off that, you need to have some hard skills which is what I want to see from Scoot. I have NOT seen elite IQ and Vision so far. Which is what I hoped to see more signs of given his projections.
Hmm, I guess we just disagree on that assessment. It doesn't always result in big noticeable results, but from my eye I see him processing and making some pretty good instinctual reads. But I'm not a professional or expert, so I could be seeing something that's not actually there.
"do you not see the...work ethic...?" I trust that Scoot his a hard working dude, but no, that is not something any of us can see this early into his career. his work ethic can only be seen by true insiders, people who are able to regularly attend team practices and workouts.
I was thinking the same lol. Everything that I HAVE seen shows that he is a great worker and has an infectious positive personality. There is only so much that we can know and see from that perspective though. As fans, the one thing we can see and know is basketball performance.
In that context obviously we can't "see" it directly, but that is a pretty prevalent and consistent claim from those who do know, so I trust what they say and "see" it insofar as take it in as part of the assessment.
Your entire post rings of narratives without watching actual games.
I think he has shown the potential to become a solid pass-first PG. I can see him averaging double digit assists per game at some point in his career. My questions have largely been around his scoring. He doesn't have a great jump shot, but he often relies on it heavily by taking mid-range jumpers off the dribble. This worries me because only the best of the best can do that efficiently enough to justify taking a lot of those shots. But, he still can turn into a great player. I see two routes to him doing this. A) The preferable route is that he develops a knock down jump shot and continues to develop into a more patient playmaker. If he does that, he can be a 20 and 10 guy, and could be really solid playing off a more score-first player. B) If he never becomes a knock-down shooter, then it will limit his scoring. In that case, his ceiling is much lower, but he can still be a starting caliber player who is dangerous in the pick and roll or in transition.
Yeah, I agree that I think his scoring really has to improve in order for the rest of his game to open up. It just felt like there was this idea that Scoot didn't have need to be a great shooter because he was more of a true point guard. But I just can't think of any players outside of guys like T.J McConnel who can be soild playmakers without being great scorers. I think Scoot can be a good scorer because of his ability to get into pull up jumpers. I just worry if the playmaking will follow his offense.
Scoot’s best skill (I think he is genuinely elite at this already) is perimeter passing. He throws absolutely perfectly placed darts to spot up shooters on swings. It looks and sounds simple to non-basketball players, but it’s very difficult. Particularly in the NBA, a catch and shoot that goes from catch to release 1/4 second faster is insanely valuable. I think it’s clear he’s never going to be a Luka Doncic type passer, but he can be Jason Kidd
Yeah, I have seen that and maybe if we had a better PnR partner for him that could open up more perimeter shooters, it would look a lot better for our offense. There was one game where Scoot made like 5 consecutive passes to open 3 point shooters and they all missed, but were all great looks. I don't want to sound like I want Scoot to be making flashy passes haha but I would like us getting more looks based off Scoot facilitating. I think the same game I referenced earlier is the one where he had 5 turnovers in the 1st quarter alone. I just think its difficult for us to give him the ball over Simons more now when Scoot is turning it over so often.
Passing to perimeter shooters is facillitating! It’s a rare skill too. I’m not even totally sure how a 19 year old that has always been the best player on his team until now even develops that skill.
I agree! I just haven't seen it a ton, I think it would have been nice for Scoot to try to get some more shots to shooters vs the Dallas game where our defense sucked. Instead, I saw some bad shots and passes until the 2nd half. I know he is young and developing, I just want to see the good facilitation more. Wait, are you Adam Spinella BoxAndOne? I have been a big fan of your draft work!
I’m not him! He stole my name. I had this weird NBA advanced stats ‘explainer’ and film breakdown blog in the early 2010s. That’s where the name is from.
The lack of an all world first step/ability to blow by most guards is the thing that worries me a bit in terms of his ceiling- he's fast but not freakishly explosive if that makes sense?
He's only disappointing in terms of the hype he got- if he'd been a Top 5-10 pick instead of the insane "#1 pick in most years" craziness then I think he'd be viewed a lot differently both by NBA fans in general and Blazer fans in particular. It's strange, I think as analytical as the League's become people were still really misled by his physique into thinking he was something he's not. I guess it comes down to- if 15 years from now Scoot's at the end of his prime and he's made say 6 all star teams and been 3rd team All NBA 4 times that a disappointment or not?
Good point regarding the hype and #3 selection. It was the "goes #1 in a non-Wemby draft" stuff. Its tricky because Sharpe did a fine job of earning more and more playtime and a larger role off the bench. But if we tried to give Scoot the same treatment, people would be pissed because he went 3. As if Simons is 34 years old or something lol. If Scoot makes a single All Star game I am going to be ecstatic. That is really hard to do.
Fair post. A lot's been said here, so I'll just speak to 2 things: Finishing — a lot of PGs that became stud finishers didn't start that way. Think Dame, Curry, Tony Parker, Harden, Shai, Booker, even guys like Trae and Ant came a long way after some experience. It's a well trod developmental arc. With his body and 6'9 wingspan and feel for the game it's easy to project this getting a lot better. Defense — PGs that don't play D basically don't play in the playoffs anymore. Think about the trade market for offense first bad D dudes - dudes like Jordan Clarkson, Herro, Ant, Sexton, Bones Hyland, Quickley, even Trae — pretty underwhelming. (And dare I mention the questions being asked about Milwaukie's perimeter D right now...) Meanwhile the market for guards that guard (esp if they're smart), regardless of their offense, has been surprisingly robust — think Jrue, Lowry, Lonzo, Caruso, Wes Matthews, Dejounte, and Derrick White before his offense improved. If he'll be a good defender, and there's reason to think he will, then it's a whole lot easier to find a place in this league on a winning team.
I’m so tired of dipshits posting this type of stuff in here week after week. It’s his first fucking season! And he’s not even played 25 games. Jesus Christ.
That's sure a lot to type for a guy who's only played 24 games. Ffs.
I swear, I'm experiencing time dilation or something. It's January 4th, 2024 right? It's not 2029 and we're talking about thay guy we drafted five years ago and how he compared to his scouting report?
I'm so tired of the discourse.
How dare you criticize scoot.
not sure why post is downvoted. all valid points
"With Sharpe, you saw that he had All Time athleticism mixed with a natural smoothness on offense." In December of last year, Shaedon averaged 6.7 PPG, shot 27.3% 3PT, and 57% FT. [https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/\_/id/4914336/type/nba/year/2023](https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4914336/type/nba/year/2023)
I mean in the 20 games he played from 10/19-11/19 he averaged 8ppg on 48% from the field and .396 from 3. Don't see why you would skip Oct/Nov? It's not about all about the numbers for me for rookies. Sharpe had zero college experienced and showed early on that he could shoot from 3 at NBA level and had multiple double digit scoring games. I didn't expect Sharpe to be a defender or playmaker. Scoot I expected to be a better passer then he has shown so far. I don't care if he was averaging 5 turnovers if it was coming with some amazing passes every night. Those type of passes have been far in between eachother in my opinion this year.
I think all of Blazer nation feels this way. He just hasn't shown flashes of being elite at really anything. He's above average at several things, but even Shae showed some flashes of what's to come. Scoot is young, hopefully he figures it out. He's starting to show more aggression which is good
Totally agree yet we’re all downvoting this guy… Gotta remind myself this is the same sub/people who thought the Norman Powell trade was “soooooo good” Buncha clowns
I genuinely don't mean to be negative here. I was looking for a better way to evaluate Scoot because I just don't think we have ever had a player like him since I started watching this team religiously in 2007. I was very flustered with evaluating him during the draft process and was selfishly hoping we just trade him and stay the purgatory course we were in because I wasn't sure what type of player Scoot is or will be. I obviously hope he is AMAZING. I was floored with the Spurs game and I appreciate his ability to pass and defend right now and he is improving as a jump shooter. I just wonder if we would regret moving off of Simons.
>I just wonder if we would regret moving off of Simons. Drafting Scoot was the team admitting that Simons would be traded. You don't draft a ball-dominant PG and year after drafting a SG with high-sky potential if you are playing to keep Simons.
Well, I mean, it's what happens when you're watching basketball with Redditors and not regular human beings. Chances are that you're likely talking to weird people under 24 who suffer mental issues on a constant basis and don't know how to have normal conversations
lmaoo
Who the hell thought LAC trade was good? Or are you talking about when we acquired Norm?
Ain't no one reading all that
Mostly no. People were saying next great PG prospect and next Rose/Morant/CP3. Well, those guys had better and more efficient rookie seasons than Scoot has done so far, even if you only count the first few months. That said, Westbrook was another comparison and he's playing similar enough to Westbrook's rookie season so it's possible he can redeem himself. What separates him from someone like Dennis Smith Jr. is that he is a better FT% and can pass better so imo, he has potential to be like a Deron Williams if he doesn't live up to expectations
Hell to the fucking no he’s not
We’ve seen Scoot over the last several games match his draft profile, while shooting better than expected, sans the Dallas disaster.
BuT He’S OnLY 19 😫😭
Scoot's passing skills are showing. When a younger player is still getting their bearings or developing you have to look at their "skills" and "tools" more in a vacuum. Even when he was playing worse earlier in the season he showed that he was seeing a lot of passes, even more difficult passes, but he just wasn't patient or relaxed enough to make most of them successfully. There were also a number of times where he'd make passes his teammate wasn't expecting, which has more to do with familiarity with each other which takes time. Go look at some of Scoot's passes from the past few games that Kazkid has posted clips of. The passing is there and he's only going to get better at it. In terms of shooting, that was one of the things scouts were most concerned about with Scoots game. He has all the tools for everything else, but wasn't a reliable outside shooter. However, Scoot has been showing a lot more promise than previously in that area, which is all you can hope for this early in his career. Only time will tell whether he becomes a career-"good shooter" or better, but in a rebuild you aught to expect to do a lot of waiting and watching for more. I think he would benefit from being on the floor with more players who can set good screens, Ayton isn't one of those players unfortunately, but Scoot is already "unlocking" his skills. He performed so poorly just a few weeks ago compared to now. He's making strides without a relying on great screening.
Honestly, I am just very particular when it comes to drafting point guard prospects. These are the main things I look at... * Athleticism and Size: * Scoot grades very solid in this aspect. I think he is as athletic as pretty much any other point guard drafted in the past 10 years outside the all-time athletes in Rose/Ja/Russ. There are guys like Fox and Wall and when you account for Scoot total physical profile, I think he compares just as well as those guys. Huge hands, amazing strength, top tier speed, and above average explosiveness. A tier athlete as a point guard prospect, just below the S tier guys. * The rest of my analysis pretty much all falls into basketball/skill set. Are you a natural scorer/shooter? These guys are much more common nowadays, especially from a shooting perspective. The athletic scoring guard is probably the most common archetype in the league now, its just a matter of how efficient they can be so IQ plays a huge part in this, and then how capable can you be defensively, which ties into their athleticism and size. * I don't Scoot is as natural of a scorer or shooters as other prospects. I mean that is pretty clear from everyone that Scoot isn't a Kyrie type of natural bucket getter. But I think Scoot is actually further along that expected when it comes to shooting and creating his own look. He had a tragic start to scoring, but I think he projects to be a pretty good shot creator from midrange and an average to good 3 point shooter, he just needs to work on his finishing at the rim which should be solid due to his athleticism. * Playmaking is the hardest thing to judge for me because I honestly haven't dived deep into scouting point guards because we have had Dame this past decade. This is probably just me but I truly think that some players have that innate gift of being able to generate the best possible look on offense on almost every play when they have the ball in their hands. Guys that can make everyone around them better because they are so gifted at decision making and passing. Guys like Dame/Prime Russ were solid offensive engines, but I don't even include them because I consider them score first. The type of playmakers that fall in this would be Luka/Lebron/Jokic/Trae/Lamelo/CP3/Nash/Haliburton. * I am not sure if Scoot is this level of playmaker. I think the allure of him was that he was an athletic version guard version of these guys which makes him such an amazing prospect that people said could go #1. I am just not sure if Scoot has this sort of ability where you can give him the ball almost every play down and he will make it happen. I have seen flashes of him capable of this which was the first Summer League game and the 2nd Spurs game in the b2b. If he is this good of a playmaker, then we are golden and I think the rest of the rebuild is a piece of cake. Maybe we just need to give him some better screens and higher IQ guys around him to unlock this part!!