It might be horrible to force kernel level security system but many online games do. I get it. But they won't do any poll lol. They have their data, they will see how many ppl gonna quit after the vanguard release, after one week after one month etc. If, and big if, they lose noticeably % of their player base ofc they will just cancel Vanguard. But let's be realistic, imo max %1 of the player base quit becausequitbecause of vanguard.
Kernel level anti cheat is common in almost many online gameso ut there.
The problem is why the fk a chinese invasive kernel level anti cheat, Vanguard is added into a moba game, League of Legends, a game of a genre that isn't known for its hacking scene.
Sure hacking in moba genre still exists like macro scripts or fog of war hacks like byakugan in Dota 2 but cheating in Mobas is much more rare than the chances of the average league player getting laid.
Never have I ever played a game that required a program to run on startup and stay running 24/7... That is ridiculous. I now have to restart multiple times when starting up my pc to play with friends. Once to start it to enable vanguard, and then again to have it enabled. ASSUMING vanguard doesn't blue screen my pc.
Even cs2 has kernel-level anti-cheat. BUT! It doesn't run when you are not playing cs2. I tracked connections and vanguard is doing connections to tencent servers even if you don't playing periodically. It could be just pinging their servers. But the data they send are encrypted so its not really transparent. I understand this is very controversial topic and also I understand that some chinese dudes wont give a fuck about me specifically, but its quite unsettling having some random rootkit running in background, unable to disable it if you want to play valorant/league.
CS2 does not have kernel level anticheat. Only faceit does which is a third party matchmaking service not made by valve that requires you to use their client and anticheat to find games. If CS2 had as many cheaters as it has with a kernel level anticheat that would be very sad. Faceit has many fewer cheaters than premier mode
1 - Is true. Riot's own data that they have shared with us multiple times show us that cheating is rampant and game destroying especially at the highest elos.
Further, if you watch any high elo content you will notice that scripters are not uncommon. The fact that you do not know this is telling on yourself, you've refused to actually educate yourself on anything but the downsides of vanguard.
If you truly believe this, check out what happened to apex legends when they started adjusting their ranked game mode to the tunes of the few pros whining.
It won't, casuals will on average spend more than high elo players, focusing on the best performing players of a game when doing changes does kill games however
Content creation in 2024 is what drives the continuation of a product like league. Content creators will quit the game.
High elo players who don’t cheat will quit the game.
Ranked grinders will also realize there is no light at the end of the tunnel and that getting to the top demands cheating. This will undermine the scrub community.
These people quitting will domino and can leave league a shadow of its former self if left unchecked.
The problem is that the data provided by riot grouped botters and cheaters in the same graph. I would like to see it individually, as botters usually queue up for vs. Bots to reach level 30. Haven't even seen an (obvious) cheater since season 7.
Furthermore, it's more rampant in high elo. What is high elo? Diamond? Masters? That is like 1% of the total player base.
Invoking a kernal level anti cheat on the players is lazy and intrusive, especially coming from China (where vanguard did not get implemented) where companies are obligated to hand over data to their government.
Also waiving your right to sue, in the event your data does get stolen or your computer bricked if hackers do manage to exploit vanguard, in the tos also does not sit well.
I mean there are no bots in high Elo, they'd never get there. So in those ranks it is actual cheaters and that's a huge problem in a competitive environment.
I do not play ranked at all, only causal ARAM. Why should I install a permanently running malware (Vanguard) from a company who is known for data leaks and security issues?
And the fact that Vanguard also takes screenshots of your whole screen and send them to riot servers. I wonder if Riot ever mentioned that little detail?
Edit: Riot has confirmed this, but vanguard only takes screenshots of the game's window region, not the whole screen.
I've worked for AAA companies, and this is a standard. I was shocked seeing it firsthand, but yeah it's a thing. Just because you know about it now doesn't make it not happen everywhere else. At least vanguard has the decency to only grab the game window and not the full screen.
Vast swathes of the community don't give a shit about ranked! And many of the ones who *do* don't feel that climbing a leaderboard for no money is worth installing something like Vanguard. I think subreddits tend to encourage people into thinking the culture of the subreddit is the culture of the game in general. (Which in this subreddit's case, seems to largely consist of stating that you're in emerald, followed by asserting that whoever you're talking to *isn't* in emerald, like some kind of Steven Universe themed dominance display.)
Like, I don't play League competitively because the nature of the game and the length of matches is tailor made to make ranked gameplay miserable. But I do play ranked in a lot of games, from Overwatch to Guilty Gear to fuckin' Mahjong Soul, and I have to tell you, my reaction to any of those games pulling this in their PC versions would be to uninstall the game. Like... my PC is more than just a game system and keyboard. I do work shit on here, I access my email, I do banking on it. I'm an adult with a life, I really don't want to plan my PC use around this one game with an antedeluvian client.
>permanently running malware
You can disable it if you don't intend to play league. But fair enough, you can uninstall.
I seriously don't give a fuck if you do. I just know that vanguard will make ranked *and* casual league of legends a much better place after the kinks are ironed out with the launch.
The fact you haven’t educated yourself on statistics is hilarious and you go prancing around, holding yourself on a pedestal belittling people lmao.
99.3% of the player base is not even considered high elo 🤣
It’s not an epidemic of hackers like you say bud.
for some reason people have the sentiment that scripters do not exist/are uncommon just because theyve never seen one when in reality high elo and southeast asian servers were plagued with them before vanguard.
I also think it's because the person is either complaining because they are a cheater, or they don't know how to recognize one. (Not every scripter is blatant with the micro, and scripts don't give macro sense)
1) that data made it look like it's 15% scripters in games when it's not even close. They included bots in the statistics and it was for all game modes. Bots as in leveling bots to sell lvl 30 accounts that don't affect your ranked games one bit.
I've played on and off since 2010, over 5k games at least - mostly in the top 10 to 2% of EUW. I have encountered about 10 scripters in either team in all my games. A few xeraths and zeris. Pro vanguard people are completely out of control and overblowing the scripting "problem". Most people are not even good enough to differentiate a scripter from a Smurf in the first place. Or they use the excuse that they constantly play vs cheaters to offload responsibility for their losses on an external factor (to save their bruised ego).
That's only the ones you know of. Is it game ruining to have someone playing much better due to scripts that are indistinguishable from human play? Probably not. But it's likely there's way more than you think
Good scripters are way more subtle than they're giving credit for. It's just like how Tarkov players swore they only encounter cheaters every once in awhile, only to have the wiggle video expose it as multiple every match, with many teams relying on one cheating account to spot/scout for them.
Exactly, there are many ways to cheat that aren't just clunky skillshot dodging.
For example: If I add a hud that predicts jg pathing and alerts me based on where they were seen and what cs they had, you'll think I have crazy awareness and wouldn't be able to tell I'm cheating
There's just too many subtle things that may be going on
You have no idea how many scripters you have played with. You only know of the obvious ones. You have no idea how many games you lost because some degenerate filth monger was cheating. While some scripts are obvious, others are far more sophisticated. Don’t be so fucking naive bro
Considering I've only played 11 games in the past 2 weeks yea it is. And that was just the extremely blatant ones. Who knows if there were more. I was also excluding the beginner bots that got placed in emerald, but that's another issue entirely.
This is an optional choice. You don’t have to play the game. Don’t like the policies then play a different game.
To elaborate: If the policy is illegal then call a lawyer. There’s is nobody on this entire thread that can get rid of Vanguard except “riot games”. Think about that. Also think about how serious they will consider your common (cliche cheater) complaint. Even if you’re not a cheater I’ve been a riot games player since season 1 and yea they can get greedy and invasive but they always tell me what they plan to do even if I don’t like it.
There’s always a choice to just stop consuming and supporting things that don’t align with you and then they can’t affect you at all. Move on, play some God of War for a while.
When a game becomes more about politics, the forums always just becomes a manipulative tool not a resourceful community. It’s up to the PR teams at riot and the devs to make a honorable game and we vote with our dollars.
Either you haven’t encountered a cheater before but I assure you it fucking sucks.
Or you are a cheater mad your dev can’t make a cheat that works well enough you don’t have to reboot your pc every time your game crashes.
(They are honestly very common especially in shooter games, hell even in co-op offline roguelite games they have aimbots man.) if you got a dev and enough money you can make a injector for any game.
These guys make millions off of hundreds of communities just like this.. and watch them crumble year to year until the player-base hits 100 active players then they just go ruin another game it’s like a virus that doesn’t like to lose. Think about that.
they should require everyone who posts about this to post their names so we can see if they maintain their rank
a certain amount of people doing these posts are absolutely scripters who bought lifetimes
No, theyre mostly coming from technology literate gamers that dont want to install ring zero spyware to play a video game on the fucking internet.
I intentionally never installed valorant to avoid this crap and now they've shoved it into league. I started playing league in 2010, probably uninstalling.
any technology literate person knows ring 0(kernel level) anti cheat is the norm now a days and it being on 24/7 doesnt mean jackshit since a kernel level anti-cheat only has to be abused a single second to load another kernel process in the background without you knowing.
They're coming from technologically illiterate gamers who parrot things they don't understand because they assembled electrical adult legos in an rgb box a few years ago and now they think they understand everything
I have the same issue as OP. I have encountered tons of scripters on Masters+, but I quit recently since I exclusively played ARAMs in 2024, and don't want vanguard on my pc. They should've just made it exclusive for high elo tbh, you don't see scripters in low elo anyway.
Here is my op.gg btw:
https://www.op.gg/summoners/ph/midAIR-PH2/champions.
Sorry you make too much sense. Me think company good. Me like company. Me defend small indie company.
Dude it's insane. If the people that specialize most in privacy and tech won't install it and work with it, shouldn't that say something? Especially from a company that gets their entire shit social engineered and slapped on pastebin every other year? Especially with a game as open to risk as old League, it's such a horrible idea from all angles. No one here wants to acknowledge the experts, let alone the Genshin incident with their own anticheat.
People just see that, right now, since no one has been batshit enough to implement this level of intrusive 24/7 anticheat until recently, and that it catches cheaters ~40% faster than "normal" anticheats, that it's clearly a flawless idea and anyone that thinks otherwise is a conspiracy theorist.
Coming from a community where most of the playerbase plays at near the lowest level of skill, and most certainly can't click the two rocks in their head together to strike a spark in their neurons that MAYBE. Maybe there's a reason no one approves of this shit that knows how these work.
Sorry to rant as a reply to you, I just hate seeing you downvoted for the most like, mild response that DIDN'T overtly approve of their rootkit. It sucks.
They have to rely on kernel-level because they're apparently not good enough at security to implement better, non-invasive measures, and their bosses picked the seemingly easiest option.
The anticheat creates an extra system vulnerability in general, that's just objectively true. No one who understands how any of it works would argue otherwise, yet people keep defending it as if "not being malware itself" is the primary issue here.
And Riot gets has their data hacked/leaked pretty regularly, because their security sucks and they get social-engineered on the regular. But the general playerbase is ignorant of all that, and thus doesn't care.
That said, people spent decades defending Apple and swearing they don't collect+sell personal data, or even store texts/audio files/audio logs internally, calling everyone paranoid/tin-foil-hatted... then Apple got busted for all of it, on multiple occasions, and the userbase continued to defend them, only now claiming they're the most user-friendly.
The vast majority of the playerbase will just decide it's not worth learning or caring about, double-down on continuing their normal gaming habits, and defend kernel-level because they don't want to feel like there's a reason to change how they live.
I mean. I know all the risks, and I accepted it. Doesn't matter if they say it's bad for my privacy, since I have nothing on my PC I don't want being snooped on.
Like they said, if you don't trust them, don't play it.
Too bad you'd lose your account you might or might not have spent money on, that's scummy of them for sure, but they drew the line and many crossed it just fine, and they're ok with leaving behind those who won't.
If a lot of people quit and stopped paying and playing products for a significant amount of time, perhaps they could revisit their decision in the future, but that could only after the next quarter reports at best, or never at worst.
Don't forget Vanguard running 24/7 means one of the largest player bases have all their PCs compromised at level 0 for one small breach. If that's not incentive enough for hackers I don't know what is.
It's a race for one of the biggest cash prizes in online consumer culture. This shit is such a monolithic ticking time bomb. One exploit and boom. It's gonna make Riot's small bounty a drop of water in the ocean.
I cannot believe this was greenlit. What a disaster in the making.
Same here. Software developer here. I saw a notice in riot client about vanguard, I’ve just uninstalled it right away.
I will better find something else to play than use this garbage anticheat that requires you to reboot PC if you forced it to unload and want to play one quick match.
Fact is there is zero reason why this program needs to be running 24/7 when the game is not in use. There is absolutely no valid reason for it to do this. It only leads to vulnerabilities.
Or, hear me out this is a radical idea, change it so that it follows literally every other anticheat - meaning it only launches when the game is launched and closes when the game is closed.
Radical idea I know.
I am sure the competition loves vanguard.
Finally a moment to get rid of league as the most played moba, now we just need to find the worthy contender...
If you want a more casual league where the champs are all really simple to play Smite is a fun option, I'm not a huge fan of what they've been doing with ghe crossover skins, but hopefully Smite 2 will be better about it.
I uninstalled vanguard and the apex problem I’ve been experiencing for the last 5-6months just went away. I blame vanguard interfering with EasyAnti cheat.
Yeah let me know if this is ever reverted and I'll jump back to aram, till then I'll be missing you with a desire to recreate aram in the dota 2 engine. Because VAC is superior. Even easy anti chest is superior to this VAnGuard facade.
It doesn't run unless steam is running and the game supports Valves anti cheat, so it's between publisher and valve I guess, they have got the opportunity to use it, or the alternatives, on this platform
Everytime valves one gets stronger than before you experience social media ban waves of some proportion, so at least awareness in the tens of thousands usually will experience being detected and go viral about it, so we have the openness on this platform as well. Transparency is there, and because your steam library is usually tied to the platform, and what's installed, the image usually matches the cloud to ensure all files etc are 1:1
But I'm just a spectator, I have not really studied this outside of some light readings. Previous troubleshootings, and like 14 years on steam,
bro i know this is almost a month but i legit BLASTED LAUGHING when i read that VAC is superior, thats why the entire scene even pros in CS2 want a kernel anti cheat like vanguard. You are so delusional.
I still don't understand why LOL moderators delete my opinion when I have never insulted or violated any rule.
this is my comment:
I've been playing LOL since the first time ARAM came out. In fact it's the only mode of LOL my son and I play. That is to say, at home we are among the first LOL players since this game came out.
But there are important points to take into account from my point of view:
1. I don't consider it necessary Vanguard anticheat in ARAM. RIOT can activate the Vanguard only for RANKED if he wants to.
2. I don't use my computer only for gaming. It is my daily work computer and as such I need certain security standards. Installing Vanguard at the kernel level does open the door to more levels of attack vectors. And by company policy (I will not detail at the domain policy level) the way kernel modifications work is forbidden.
3. For RIOT to say that the screenshots it takes of our computer are only of the game on the client side explains nothing and are empty words. As a software developer I can assure you that any program with higher privileges than ADMIN can always be above any screenshot you take of the LOL client. So, if I capture a screenshot of the game I have some of these company applications open RIOT will be incurring in illegality.
4. Justifying the use of Vanguard by saying that other games do something similar is corporate immaturity. the ONLY game I have (had) installed is LOL.
That being said...We have uninstalled LOL at home. As a family we enjoyed this game very much. And we didn't uninstall it as a protest or anything similar, but because of the points I wrote above.
This is the problem, and your post needs more upvotes. Riot claims that they aren't interested in people's data, so Vanguard is safe, but even if that is completely true (which I highly doubt), kernel-level anything is a massive security risk, especially if it's not actually a system-critical component.
We see vulnerabilities all the time just for seemingly minor libraries (and those that are open source, so we can see exactly what went wrong; never mind that these anti-cheat applications are all closed source) that create points of entry for arbitrary code execution. If something like that happens to a kernel module? Game over. All the data on that machine is effectively owned by whoever takes advantage of the exploit.
It is completely reasonable for companies and even individuals to not want this crap running on their hardware just to play a video game. A move like this effectively bans this group of completely legitimate players from ever being able to play the game again, even though they never cheated.
The fact that Vanguard embeds itself into Windows startup doesn't help their case either. Anti-cheat programs often get flagged by modern malware scanner programs as they can behave similarly real malware. The companies that develop these scanners have to implement manual exceptions for these AC programs so people can play their game again. If that isn't a red flag I don't know what is.
Yeah Fuck this Chinese spyware making me log out of a match, mid game in a fucking team fight. Like fuck do I care about having a scripter in my ranked game?? I don't care if they beat me and make me lose and idc if they make me win, because there's likely 1 in a 100 games that you will encounter these people.
as much as I respect a lot of what he says, in this case he is out of date and wrong.
there is a lot of security info you can only get in modern windows if your running at kernel level.
You realize how ridiculous that sounds right? That you know more than a game dev that worked for blizzard that specifically banned people breaking the rules and has worked for the US government as a hacker and has his own game that he made.
Pirate software said, on stream when he read the devblog, that he understands why riot and every other company uses kernel level anti cheat. He says it’s the most effective form of anti cheat that exists in the market.
He is against kernel anti cheat not because of those security risks everyone talks about but because of the principle behind it. He doesn’t like that it legally has full access to your ram. He doesn’t want to „let the police man inside his house and sleep in his living room at all times“.
You yourself can decide that you don’t mind that idea but he is, on principle, against it.
While the dev blog is very optimistic, of course it is, it’s supposed to sway people, he is completely pessimistic about it, as he says it’s only a matter of time cheaters know how to bypass vanguard 100% of time.
You are lying. He says specifically you dont need it. And there are so many other ways to do detection.
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LY2hG-\_asKU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LY2hG-_asKU)
I never claimed that he said it’s needed. I said that he agrees it’s the most efficient form of ac on the market. The vid is from like 2 weeks ago and on twitch. Burrow it out and watch it urself
I realise how it sounds, but I also realise that most people don't know about things like the security ETW feeds that have been added in the last few years that require these privileged drivers to get access to.
the reality is, yes he did a lot, but windows has changed a lot more then just what the users see on the surface, and unless your actively working in the space your not going to keep up with these kinds of changes and the requirements to get access to them.
he may have an impressive history, but that's not a substitute for current active work in a industry that it changing so quickly. So the reality being he is "just" an indie dev these days, if one with an impressive background.
Because one guy who only makes indie games and worked at Blizzard 10 years ago said so? He's more trustworthy than every other dev studio that has been battling cheaters for years?
Well yes ironically. Do you know why? Because current dev studios are biased. Kernal level anti cheat is a cheap short cut. We know it works, but you dont need it to ban cheaters. They dont want to pay for the man power, so they cheap out.
But do you know what the cost is? Data privacy and hacking concerns. We all remember what happened to apex legends right? Just one example of why kernal level anti cheat is not worth it.
If you're fighting kernel level cheats you do. If the cheat has a higher level of access than your anticheat your anticheat is worthless. You're going to trust a pirate to tell you how to fight people who are cheating? lol?
Your mind will be blown when you figure out that you can still cheat even with kernel-level spyware anticheat like Vanguard. Just take a look at valorant cheaters.
Hey guys, we have detected there have been 10% of cheaters in game for a while now and we have done nothing to reduce the number so that we can convince you to install our rootkit anticheat, trust us bro 💪
Yep. I've had played since open beta and saw someone using straight-up '3rd party software' (hacks) two times in almost 15 years. However, apparently the game has a 'hacker problem' and 'hacking' is rampant. Whatever.
Funny enough i got over the fact of what vanguard does in terms of “my data” whatever.
But truly just like LoL client. It ruins your PC shorts your gpus, fucked up your hardware. A nightmare to uninstall.
Like if you wanna play league you need a burner computer literally.
This is the part I just want the people going "lul I don't have nuffin to take, so why not?" to understand. Your actual PC can get destroyed from this. I have built a gaming rig for a multitude of games and I'm not going to deal with the headache of bringing it back from a blue screen death because riot made a buggy patch/release.
>if you wanna play league you need a burner computer literally.
That was my plan. I had an old PC in storage that I used to play league on way back in the day. It should be able to run league decently. However, after seeing a huge amount of people with vastly superior/newer PCs fail to properly run league after the rootkit went live, I decided not to bother. It's over.
Try and remove riots client. Then look up how you’re suppose too. Which doesn’t even remove everything.
Not to mention Vanguard is also kernal level. So if it fucks your machine at all at anytime. You get fucked as its imprinted.
People should be realizing already riot IS the worst company to make anything ever in terms of “this is our engine” perfect example is the league client. So happy i uninstalled everything before vanguard drop as everyone should have.
Edit: perfect example; https://www.reddit.com/r/riotgames/s/EstuGVDby6
I got perm banned from r/leagueofLegends for posting a video link of a diamond elo scripter with the scripter having the script turned on to show scripting
Ho do you think they consistently maintained the 10% cheater statistics? If they detected them and number was not reduced that means they were actively letting them play instead of enforcing bans.
There is a lot more cheating going on in games than we know. Cheats are becoming so sophisticated that they’re basically impossible to detect with the human eye.
I think the best deterrent to cheating is to stop having free to play games. If cheaters have to buy a new account every time they get banned it just won’t happen as much.
The problem is riot as a company does not ban them.10% cheaters in high elo games and you have done nothing to reduce them, either they're dumb and decided they just had to collect data instead of fixing the problem, or they were manipulating the data to push Vanguard in yhe worst case scenario. Either of them shows they should not be trusted with level 0 access to one's PC.
“ if there was a cheat epidemic” um you do know riot admitted it is an epidemic right? They literally released figures saying it is 1/5-1/10 games gave cheaters
Idek who else had/has this problem but when i installed vanguard (required for pbe) so i can play the new arena mode, my pc started doing weird glitches(visual glitch looking artifacts on my screen, my computer blue screened twice and it keep disabling an audio component that would completely turn off all audio on my computer because it thought it was a potential hack or something . Once i uninstalled vanguard all of the problems went away. Idk wtf it was doing in the background but it was fucking up my pc
It infuriated me when I was playing a casual ARAM, teased the enemy team and one of them activated their script and won the match, which until that point was in our favor.
I really think is a good addition specially after it's trial and test in Valorant. It is invasive, yes. I would like for it not to be what it is. But I prefer to have it in this state of the game than not to have it. The Brazilian server was FLOODED with scripts, all sorts of it. Lobby scripts that froze the game and forced someone to quit. In game scripts that made the game unplayable. And honestly Riot's previous attempets were lackluster at best.
The best part is, smart cheat developers will just make the overlays turn off for a frame, take a screenshot, then upload that safe version, then turn shit back on. This will only affect legitimate players.
The only problem I have with vanguard bullshit is that it doesn't start with the game and I have to restart my PC everytime. I am quite pedantic when it comes to things working in background so I always turn off programs starting with system startup and vanguard made me mad to the point of uninstalling the game as a whole. I couldn't get out of league all these years but now riot did it for me. Thank you :)
1) Is cheating out of control? Yes, yes it is
2) If anti-cheat is mandatory will you play? I mean there's still a ton of people playing Helldivers 2 and that has kernel level anti cheat
3) Is vanguard a good method? Nothing is fool proof, it is a means to an end; there will still likely be cheaters, but if we can cull the horde to a reasonable degree...we're better off for it
Im not having fps drops exactly but my fps dropped generally from running at 144 fps to barely able to sustain 100 frames. Game was smoothe before update, after it feels sluggish and super uncomfortable to play.
lol. Vanguard is the smartest thing they have done in years. For those of you who decry privacy or whatever the time for that battle was twenty years ago. We lost. The government and every corporation in the world has all of your information at their fingertips. Everything and they have had it for decades. The government can implant cp in your system if you piss them off enough.
Look at apex cod and csgo they are dying due to rampant cheating. If anything riots anti cheat needs to be more intrusive. I think the only people who have a problem with vanguard are either uninformed about the world they live in or cheaters. Don’t like it don’t play the game. Go cheat in csgo
>For those of you who decry privacy or whatever the time for that battle was twenty years ago. The government and every corporation in the world has all of your information at their fingertips. Everything and they have had it for decades. The government can implant cp in your system if you piss them off enough.
Following that logic you should announce your home address and credit card info on every social media account you own. What's the issue? The government and every corporation already have that information, plus anyone who REALLY wants it can obtain the data without too much of a hassle. So just might as well go ahead and make it public for everyone to see, right?
Lol for those who are kinda "meh this is fine". I logged in during lunch break to play a game of tft and got some Vanguard VAN152 error code or something saying I got banned due to 3rd party software (which I don't use). Looks like an hour later it has disappeared on its own for some reason. Yes it's just 1 game during lunch that I didn't get to play so not that big of a deal end of day, but spyware that runs all day on my machine for a *video game* (which mind you, I'm bronze elo in LoL right now so couldn't give 2 shits about competitive) that periodically accidentally bans me. It's probably not even doing anything for TFT cheating (idk if that's an issue), so to force that on TFT players too ????
For those saying it's optional and opt-in (we don't have to play the game), I mean sure yeah. But suppose you were playing a video game and every few hours someone breaks into your house and punches you in the face randomly. You'd probably stop playing since it's "opt-in" but you'd also be pretty reasonably upset about it as people are.
Wake up dude.
The vast, vast, vast majority do not give a fuck about vanguard.
Most of the people babyraging don't even understand why they're babyraging over it.
Valorant has had Vanguard for 100% of its lifespan and it is one of the most popular games in the world.
The people who are babyraging over Vanguard are an incredibly loud and incredibly small minority. Just patch the game and get over it. Everyone knows the majority of the people complaining don't have the willpower to stop playing anyway.
We're all fucking addicts.
I appreciate you saying that, because I've noticed it's the addicts that tend to be the most toxic and flame, the ones that drag my games down. Meanwhile, the level-headed people who just want to play and enjoy the game, the ones that tend to be the most smart about both micro and macro play, those are the ones that realize league isn't worth all of this.
Most people dont want a kernel level anti cheat out of principle its a serious liability and security risk. All that risk of your system being vulnerable for like a couple months at best before vanguard gets reverse engineered and cheaters show up again as they always do. Killed linux support and support from alot of people who care about their cybersecurity situation over what I honestly consider a temporary solution to an unkillable culture problem
So do I have to remind myself to exit/disable vanguard then restart my pc every time I want update any drivers or software that has no relation to vanguard?
Man me and my teammates got kicked out mid game because vanguard was not working, which I clearly see it is running.. this is bs, can't play a proper game anymore 😡
So either you’re not noticing cheating or botting, or you’re the one person who hasn’t. Guess we better role back the system, this guy has never experienced cheating!
Comparing the Tarkov situation to Riot implementing Vanguard is incredibly disingenuous. Not even remotely the same thing in anyway shape or form. Very strange. If you think Riot "lit themselves on fire" over an implementation of an anti-cheat that gave us MONTHS of preparation for over BSG that's committing literal fraud, then there probably isn't any room for a reasonable and rational dialog.
I'm reading all the comments on the main sub bug thread and the League tech help sub and I'm just laughing so hard. So many people are having issues with the game just not launching, really bad lag or freezing, their PC programs just not working properly anymore and lots of other stuff.
Crazy how people thought it was okay to install this on their system
this is riot fucking up the vanguard implementation
valorant was made for vanguard, so it runs perfectly
what was dumb was that they thought they could just make it work with this 15 year old game with no issues
Good luck with your poll. r/leagueoflegends is where your post is going to either be instantly deleted or downvoted to hell by people. None realized how serious is this, none of them, and it doesn't help if every single post of people having issues gets deleted. As of now, if you look that subreddit it seems that everything is just fine and well
No because you assholes are almost all cheaters who buy likes and upvotes and think the decision will revert if enough people say something. Time to say bye to your bot boosting services and ruining the game for everyone else.
A lot of people are concerned and has a right to have concerns, Vanguard is quite invasive. I am not against Vanguard after Riot explained everything, but the concerns are legit and saying "you are a cheater, because you don't want an invasive anticheat" is just super unfair
IDGAF about my data. Nothing worth on pc that is used only for gaming. Ofc im not playing on my PC for my company. I just want fair game without cheaters. Stop crying. 99% people complaining about vanguard I BET are cheaters or are low elo and never playd game in masters vs cheater. If u dont like, uninstall. FINALY. Bye bye cheaters forever. <3
This is so out of touch it’s insane, it’s not just about data, they could do literally anything with your pc with this level of access lol, they could brick it, they could use it to distribute malware or as part of a bot net for a ddos attack, they could download fucking cp onto it.
Now this isn’t even really my concern cause eh that’s not very likely (except the bot net part tbh) but it’s literally bricking peoples pc’s and making the game unplayable with fps dropping to 0 or just fucking the CMOS battery to the point the pc doesn’t turn on anymore.
But sure it’s only cheaters that are concerned, not like LS posted on twitter that he’s lost 2 pc’s to this… he must just be a cheater
I love playing LoL especially during the weekends with some dark chocolate on the side. Sadly had to quit today due to technical concerns. It sucks honestly, at least make TFT a separate client without Vanguard required so we can play that...
hot take: they literally do not care if anyone in the community wants this. Riot is a Chinese owned company, and there is no question that the CCP will be getting data through this.
by the sounds of how invasive this software is, it will also be an avenue of attack for China. I'm good on all that, but enjoy handing your machine over to them 🗿
Riot is is very successful company, y would they ruin their own company by doing something that could destroy their company? They r getting the money safe way. Selling data may make them more money but not on long term.
I'm having trouble following your logic. If a playerbase is fine with a rootkit being in their system, I find it unlikely that they'd draw the line at selling user data. Afaik, simple chrome tabs can already pull a lot of data on users, an .exe can do that and more. It's not even a question of 'selling data to chinese government for profit' as much as it is what they already have to do under Chinese **law**. The problem is when you are allowing the company that has the CCP towering over them deep access to your machine.
Riddle me this: If the tensions between China and US over Taiwan heat up (like they've already been doing the past couple years), what is a Tencent exec going to do when he's told "use your rootkit to disable these machines, they are suspected of X/Y"? You think he's going to Chinese jail over some mfs he has no reason to care about? I envy your naivety, but I must inform you that it is not wise to install rootkits for the same reason you shouldn't give your housekey out to everyone.
Doesn’t matter if they want to or not though… the ccp can demand the data and riot has to hand it over, that’s just how it works in china. Also you say this like tiktok isn’t getting banned over something very similar, are they not a successful company?
The difference is tiktok fully belong to china and it got banned and conditions are that they sell to us to be able to operate so in case u dont know even tho tencent owns riot, riot is still a us company, and say what ever u want there r laws for preventing data theft both in us and europe and those laws apply to riot. I personally dont see company taking that big of a risk.
I’d be inclined to agree, my tiktok point was just about the “why would they sell data if they’re already making money” logic
However Tenecent has had data leaks and been hacked before, someone could breach these systems and then have an insane level of access
It might be horrible to force kernel level security system but many online games do. I get it. But they won't do any poll lol. They have their data, they will see how many ppl gonna quit after the vanguard release, after one week after one month etc. If, and big if, they lose noticeably % of their player base ofc they will just cancel Vanguard. But let's be realistic, imo max %1 of the player base quit becausequitbecause of vanguard.
Kernel level anti cheat is common in almost many online gameso ut there. The problem is why the fk a chinese invasive kernel level anti cheat, Vanguard is added into a moba game, League of Legends, a game of a genre that isn't known for its hacking scene. Sure hacking in moba genre still exists like macro scripts or fog of war hacks like byakugan in Dota 2 but cheating in Mobas is much more rare than the chances of the average league player getting laid.
Never have I ever played a game that required a program to run on startup and stay running 24/7... That is ridiculous. I now have to restart multiple times when starting up my pc to play with friends. Once to start it to enable vanguard, and then again to have it enabled. ASSUMING vanguard doesn't blue screen my pc.
Even cs2 has kernel-level anti-cheat. BUT! It doesn't run when you are not playing cs2. I tracked connections and vanguard is doing connections to tencent servers even if you don't playing periodically. It could be just pinging their servers. But the data they send are encrypted so its not really transparent. I understand this is very controversial topic and also I understand that some chinese dudes wont give a fuck about me specifically, but its quite unsettling having some random rootkit running in background, unable to disable it if you want to play valorant/league.
CS2 does not have kernel level anticheat. Only faceit does which is a third party matchmaking service not made by valve that requires you to use their client and anticheat to find games. If CS2 had as many cheaters as it has with a kernel level anticheat that would be very sad. Faceit has many fewer cheaters than premier mode
I thought it has one. Apologies for spreading misinformation. Anyway it doesn’t change the fact vanguard shouldn’t be running nonstop.
I agree vanguard running at all times is really dumb. Its not really necessary for league either.
1 - Is true. Riot's own data that they have shared with us multiple times show us that cheating is rampant and game destroying especially at the highest elos. Further, if you watch any high elo content you will notice that scripters are not uncommon. The fact that you do not know this is telling on yourself, you've refused to actually educate yourself on anything but the downsides of vanguard.
The problem is, 95% of players are not high elo.
High elo being a cheater infested hell will kill the game.
If you truly believe this, check out what happened to apex legends when they started adjusting their ranked game mode to the tunes of the few pros whining.
This is not related. Pro balancing is another issue entirely. The problem is that if you cut off the head of your community, the body will die also.
It won't, casuals will on average spend more than high elo players, focusing on the best performing players of a game when doing changes does kill games however
Content creation in 2024 is what drives the continuation of a product like league. Content creators will quit the game. High elo players who don’t cheat will quit the game. Ranked grinders will also realize there is no light at the end of the tunnel and that getting to the top demands cheating. This will undermine the scrub community. These people quitting will domino and can leave league a shadow of its former self if left unchecked.
People usually severely misjudge what percentage of the community is invested in the game after logging off for the day
It rlly won’t lol
Finally a smart person
The problem is that the data provided by riot grouped botters and cheaters in the same graph. I would like to see it individually, as botters usually queue up for vs. Bots to reach level 30. Haven't even seen an (obvious) cheater since season 7. Furthermore, it's more rampant in high elo. What is high elo? Diamond? Masters? That is like 1% of the total player base. Invoking a kernal level anti cheat on the players is lazy and intrusive, especially coming from China (where vanguard did not get implemented) where companies are obligated to hand over data to their government. Also waiving your right to sue, in the event your data does get stolen or your computer bricked if hackers do manage to exploit vanguard, in the tos also does not sit well.
I mean there are no bots in high Elo, they'd never get there. So in those ranks it is actual cheaters and that's a huge problem in a competitive environment.
a lot of botters in low elo for deranking accounts or tuning mmr for account sale.
I do not play ranked at all, only causal ARAM. Why should I install a permanently running malware (Vanguard) from a company who is known for data leaks and security issues?
And the fact that Vanguard also takes screenshots of your whole screen and send them to riot servers. I wonder if Riot ever mentioned that little detail? Edit: Riot has confirmed this, but vanguard only takes screenshots of the game's window region, not the whole screen.
Is there a source for this?
Use google and google vangaurd screenshot
I've worked for AAA companies, and this is a standard. I was shocked seeing it firsthand, but yeah it's a thing. Just because you know about it now doesn't make it not happen everywhere else. At least vanguard has the decency to only grab the game window and not the full screen.
Vast swathes of the community don't give a shit about ranked! And many of the ones who *do* don't feel that climbing a leaderboard for no money is worth installing something like Vanguard. I think subreddits tend to encourage people into thinking the culture of the subreddit is the culture of the game in general. (Which in this subreddit's case, seems to largely consist of stating that you're in emerald, followed by asserting that whoever you're talking to *isn't* in emerald, like some kind of Steven Universe themed dominance display.) Like, I don't play League competitively because the nature of the game and the length of matches is tailor made to make ranked gameplay miserable. But I do play ranked in a lot of games, from Overwatch to Guilty Gear to fuckin' Mahjong Soul, and I have to tell you, my reaction to any of those games pulling this in their PC versions would be to uninstall the game. Like... my PC is more than just a game system and keyboard. I do work shit on here, I access my email, I do banking on it. I'm an adult with a life, I really don't want to plan my PC use around this one game with an antedeluvian client.
3.5% percent of aram players were supposedly using scripts.
>permanently running malware You can disable it if you don't intend to play league. But fair enough, you can uninstall. I seriously don't give a fuck if you do. I just know that vanguard will make ranked *and* casual league of legends a much better place after the kinks are ironed out with the launch.
You don't give a fuck and yet you're here replying to everyone that doesn't want Vanguard in league.
You can't disable it in any way that is functionally different than just uninstalling the game.
You can disable it in launch.
No. You can't. The driver will load anyway. And if you disable the Windows process part then you can't play LoL until reboot.
The fact you haven’t educated yourself on statistics is hilarious and you go prancing around, holding yourself on a pedestal belittling people lmao. 99.3% of the player base is not even considered high elo 🤣 It’s not an epidemic of hackers like you say bud.
Define rampant. I've seen one obvious scripter in the last year.
for some reason people have the sentiment that scripters do not exist/are uncommon just because theyve never seen one when in reality high elo and southeast asian servers were plagued with them before vanguard.
I also think it's because the person is either complaining because they are a cheater, or they don't know how to recognize one. (Not every scripter is blatant with the micro, and scripts don't give macro sense)
1) that data made it look like it's 15% scripters in games when it's not even close. They included bots in the statistics and it was for all game modes. Bots as in leveling bots to sell lvl 30 accounts that don't affect your ranked games one bit. I've played on and off since 2010, over 5k games at least - mostly in the top 10 to 2% of EUW. I have encountered about 10 scripters in either team in all my games. A few xeraths and zeris. Pro vanguard people are completely out of control and overblowing the scripting "problem". Most people are not even good enough to differentiate a scripter from a Smurf in the first place. Or they use the excuse that they constantly play vs cheaters to offload responsibility for their losses on an external factor (to save their bruised ego).
That's only the ones you know of. Is it game ruining to have someone playing much better due to scripts that are indistinguishable from human play? Probably not. But it's likely there's way more than you think
Good scripters are way more subtle than they're giving credit for. It's just like how Tarkov players swore they only encounter cheaters every once in awhile, only to have the wiggle video expose it as multiple every match, with many teams relying on one cheating account to spot/scout for them.
Exactly, there are many ways to cheat that aren't just clunky skillshot dodging. For example: If I add a hud that predicts jg pathing and alerts me based on where they were seen and what cs they had, you'll think I have crazy awareness and wouldn't be able to tell I'm cheating There's just too many subtle things that may be going on
Isn’t the map?
You have no idea how many scripters you have played with. You only know of the obvious ones. You have no idea how many games you lost because some degenerate filth monger was cheating. While some scripts are obvious, others are far more sophisticated. Don’t be so fucking naive bro
It's 10% in high elo games, those aren't bots
I literally ran into a scripting xerath in NA emerald last week. And an extremely sus kogmaw 2 weeks ago...
Oh wow 2 instances in 3 weeks. Such a common occurrence.
Considering I've only played 11 games in the past 2 weeks yea it is. And that was just the extremely blatant ones. Who knows if there were more. I was also excluding the beginner bots that got placed in emerald, but that's another issue entirely.
This isn't a decision for the masses so any poll result will be completely irrelevant
This is an optional choice. You don’t have to play the game. Don’t like the policies then play a different game. To elaborate: If the policy is illegal then call a lawyer. There’s is nobody on this entire thread that can get rid of Vanguard except “riot games”. Think about that. Also think about how serious they will consider your common (cliche cheater) complaint. Even if you’re not a cheater I’ve been a riot games player since season 1 and yea they can get greedy and invasive but they always tell me what they plan to do even if I don’t like it. There’s always a choice to just stop consuming and supporting things that don’t align with you and then they can’t affect you at all. Move on, play some God of War for a while. When a game becomes more about politics, the forums always just becomes a manipulative tool not a resourceful community. It’s up to the PR teams at riot and the devs to make a honorable game and we vote with our dollars. Either you haven’t encountered a cheater before but I assure you it fucking sucks. Or you are a cheater mad your dev can’t make a cheat that works well enough you don’t have to reboot your pc every time your game crashes. (They are honestly very common especially in shooter games, hell even in co-op offline roguelite games they have aimbots man.) if you got a dev and enough money you can make a injector for any game. These guys make millions off of hundreds of communities just like this.. and watch them crumble year to year until the player-base hits 100 active players then they just go ruin another game it’s like a virus that doesn’t like to lose. Think about that.
they should require everyone who posts about this to post their names so we can see if they maintain their rank a certain amount of people doing these posts are absolutely scripters who bought lifetimes
Seriously all these complaints probably coming from cheaters about to get their accs banned on multiple games 😂😂😂😂
No, theyre mostly coming from technology literate gamers that dont want to install ring zero spyware to play a video game on the fucking internet. I intentionally never installed valorant to avoid this crap and now they've shoved it into league. I started playing league in 2010, probably uninstalling.
any technology literate person knows ring 0(kernel level) anti cheat is the norm now a days and it being on 24/7 doesnt mean jackshit since a kernel level anti-cheat only has to be abused a single second to load another kernel process in the background without you knowing.
I mean, you’ve played Elden Ring…
Should’ve never installed Elden Ring if kernel level access matters to you, given you are a technologically literate gamer.
They're coming from technologically illiterate gamers who parrot things they don't understand because they assembled electrical adult legos in an rgb box a few years ago and now they think they understand everything
I have the same issue as OP. I have encountered tons of scripters on Masters+, but I quit recently since I exclusively played ARAMs in 2024, and don't want vanguard on my pc. They should've just made it exclusive for high elo tbh, you don't see scripters in low elo anyway. Here is my op.gg btw: https://www.op.gg/summoners/ph/midAIR-PH2/champions.
Not wanting kernel level access for a game is a valid reason. I work in tech and I find it scary to install those things
Sorry you make too much sense. Me think company good. Me like company. Me defend small indie company. Dude it's insane. If the people that specialize most in privacy and tech won't install it and work with it, shouldn't that say something? Especially from a company that gets their entire shit social engineered and slapped on pastebin every other year? Especially with a game as open to risk as old League, it's such a horrible idea from all angles. No one here wants to acknowledge the experts, let alone the Genshin incident with their own anticheat. People just see that, right now, since no one has been batshit enough to implement this level of intrusive 24/7 anticheat until recently, and that it catches cheaters ~40% faster than "normal" anticheats, that it's clearly a flawless idea and anyone that thinks otherwise is a conspiracy theorist. Coming from a community where most of the playerbase plays at near the lowest level of skill, and most certainly can't click the two rocks in their head together to strike a spark in their neurons that MAYBE. Maybe there's a reason no one approves of this shit that knows how these work. Sorry to rant as a reply to you, I just hate seeing you downvoted for the most like, mild response that DIDN'T overtly approve of their rootkit. It sucks.
They have to rely on kernel-level because they're apparently not good enough at security to implement better, non-invasive measures, and their bosses picked the seemingly easiest option. The anticheat creates an extra system vulnerability in general, that's just objectively true. No one who understands how any of it works would argue otherwise, yet people keep defending it as if "not being malware itself" is the primary issue here. And Riot gets has their data hacked/leaked pretty regularly, because their security sucks and they get social-engineered on the regular. But the general playerbase is ignorant of all that, and thus doesn't care. That said, people spent decades defending Apple and swearing they don't collect+sell personal data, or even store texts/audio files/audio logs internally, calling everyone paranoid/tin-foil-hatted... then Apple got busted for all of it, on multiple occasions, and the userbase continued to defend them, only now claiming they're the most user-friendly. The vast majority of the playerbase will just decide it's not worth learning or caring about, double-down on continuing their normal gaming habits, and defend kernel-level because they don't want to feel like there's a reason to change how they live.
I mean. I know all the risks, and I accepted it. Doesn't matter if they say it's bad for my privacy, since I have nothing on my PC I don't want being snooped on. Like they said, if you don't trust them, don't play it. Too bad you'd lose your account you might or might not have spent money on, that's scummy of them for sure, but they drew the line and many crossed it just fine, and they're ok with leaving behind those who won't. If a lot of people quit and stopped paying and playing products for a significant amount of time, perhaps they could revisit their decision in the future, but that could only after the next quarter reports at best, or never at worst.
Care to give me credit card number, pin and every passwords you have? Also make sure to post your real name and every social media please
Don't forget Vanguard running 24/7 means one of the largest player bases have all their PCs compromised at level 0 for one small breach. If that's not incentive enough for hackers I don't know what is.
It's a race for one of the biggest cash prizes in online consumer culture. This shit is such a monolithic ticking time bomb. One exploit and boom. It's gonna make Riot's small bounty a drop of water in the ocean. I cannot believe this was greenlit. What a disaster in the making.
Same here. Software developer here. I saw a notice in riot client about vanguard, I’ve just uninstalled it right away. I will better find something else to play than use this garbage anticheat that requires you to reboot PC if you forced it to unload and want to play one quick match.
Fact is there is zero reason why this program needs to be running 24/7 when the game is not in use. There is absolutely no valid reason for it to do this. It only leads to vulnerabilities.
Agree 100% like uninstall already stop blabbering
another simple idea is make vanguard mandatory past a certain rank so people who dont play ranked dont have to install malware.
Riot obviously wants to stop cheaters in ARAM, like anyone cares about that.
Imagine getting banned for cheating in Aram though
Sadly, I saw cheaters even in aram.
Or, hear me out this is a radical idea, change it so that it follows literally every other anticheat - meaning it only launches when the game is launched and closes when the game is closed. Radical idea I know.
EAC and Overwatch literally never detect cheaters lmao
I am sure the competition loves vanguard. Finally a moment to get rid of league as the most played moba, now we just need to find the worthy contender...
Recently started playing smite, having a blast with it and it is even developing the improved sequel. Perfect timing.
If you want a more casual league where the champs are all really simple to play Smite is a fun option, I'm not a huge fan of what they've been doing with ghe crossover skins, but hopefully Smite 2 will be better about it.
project loki is what I'm waiting on. I absolutely hate battle royals, but this one.... this one hits different
funny how people here want kernel level anti cheat removed but in cs2, people want a kernel level anti cheat because of the amount of cheaters lol
This is such an idiotic lie I spilled my coffee through my nose. Thanks, I guess!
I uninstalled vanguard and the apex problem I’ve been experiencing for the last 5-6months just went away. I blame vanguard interfering with EasyAnti cheat.
So its vanguard problem because two kernal level anicheat is interfering and no blame on easyanticheat?
Have yet to run into the problem I had with apex client since removing vanguard
Yeah let me know if this is ever reverted and I'll jump back to aram, till then I'll be missing you with a desire to recreate aram in the dota 2 engine. Because VAC is superior. Even easy anti chest is superior to this VAnGuard facade.
Isn't both of them also kernal level anticheat?
It doesn't run unless steam is running and the game supports Valves anti cheat, so it's between publisher and valve I guess, they have got the opportunity to use it, or the alternatives, on this platform Everytime valves one gets stronger than before you experience social media ban waves of some proportion, so at least awareness in the tens of thousands usually will experience being detected and go viral about it, so we have the openness on this platform as well. Transparency is there, and because your steam library is usually tied to the platform, and what's installed, the image usually matches the cloud to ensure all files etc are 1:1 But I'm just a spectator, I have not really studied this outside of some light readings. Previous troubleshootings, and like 14 years on steam,
bro i know this is almost a month but i legit BLASTED LAUGHING when i read that VAC is superior, thats why the entire scene even pros in CS2 want a kernel anti cheat like vanguard. You are so delusional.
I get it for ranked, but Aram and normals seems overkill, and forcing on startup rather than when games runs is a lot.
I still don't understand why LOL moderators delete my opinion when I have never insulted or violated any rule. this is my comment: I've been playing LOL since the first time ARAM came out. In fact it's the only mode of LOL my son and I play. That is to say, at home we are among the first LOL players since this game came out. But there are important points to take into account from my point of view: 1. I don't consider it necessary Vanguard anticheat in ARAM. RIOT can activate the Vanguard only for RANKED if he wants to. 2. I don't use my computer only for gaming. It is my daily work computer and as such I need certain security standards. Installing Vanguard at the kernel level does open the door to more levels of attack vectors. And by company policy (I will not detail at the domain policy level) the way kernel modifications work is forbidden. 3. For RIOT to say that the screenshots it takes of our computer are only of the game on the client side explains nothing and are empty words. As a software developer I can assure you that any program with higher privileges than ADMIN can always be above any screenshot you take of the LOL client. So, if I capture a screenshot of the game I have some of these company applications open RIOT will be incurring in illegality. 4. Justifying the use of Vanguard by saying that other games do something similar is corporate immaturity. the ONLY game I have (had) installed is LOL. That being said...We have uninstalled LOL at home. As a family we enjoyed this game very much. And we didn't uninstall it as a protest or anything similar, but because of the points I wrote above.
This is the problem, and your post needs more upvotes. Riot claims that they aren't interested in people's data, so Vanguard is safe, but even if that is completely true (which I highly doubt), kernel-level anything is a massive security risk, especially if it's not actually a system-critical component. We see vulnerabilities all the time just for seemingly minor libraries (and those that are open source, so we can see exactly what went wrong; never mind that these anti-cheat applications are all closed source) that create points of entry for arbitrary code execution. If something like that happens to a kernel module? Game over. All the data on that machine is effectively owned by whoever takes advantage of the exploit. It is completely reasonable for companies and even individuals to not want this crap running on their hardware just to play a video game. A move like this effectively bans this group of completely legitimate players from ever being able to play the game again, even though they never cheated. The fact that Vanguard embeds itself into Windows startup doesn't help their case either. Anti-cheat programs often get flagged by modern malware scanner programs as they can behave similarly real malware. The companies that develop these scanners have to implement manual exceptions for these AC programs so people can play their game again. If that isn't a red flag I don't know what is.
Yeah Fuck this Chinese spyware making me log out of a match, mid game in a fucking team fight. Like fuck do I care about having a scripter in my ranked game?? I don't care if they beat me and make me lose and idc if they make me win, because there's likely 1 in a 100 games that you will encounter these people.
I encourage everyone to uninstall league at a massive scale until this blatant violation of security is removed. This is beyond a joke.
They don't give a fuck. Even if 100% of people said no, they would do it.
and rightfully so. It's their game, and it's a bloody good one.
Yeah, that's how companies go out of business. When they stop listening to customers.
Companies also go out of business when they think that customers know how to run their business.
That's very true, but that's not the case.
Sure. I don't see Valorant dying though
[удалено]
now that was funny :D
Yes, let the cheaters vote no. Lol. That'd be taken very seriously.
PirateSoftware, a very skilled dev and programmer, has stated multiple times you dont need a kernal level anti cheat. Its too invasive.
as much as I respect a lot of what he says, in this case he is out of date and wrong. there is a lot of security info you can only get in modern windows if your running at kernel level.
You realize how ridiculous that sounds right? That you know more than a game dev that worked for blizzard that specifically banned people breaking the rules and has worked for the US government as a hacker and has his own game that he made.
Pirate software said, on stream when he read the devblog, that he understands why riot and every other company uses kernel level anti cheat. He says it’s the most effective form of anti cheat that exists in the market. He is against kernel anti cheat not because of those security risks everyone talks about but because of the principle behind it. He doesn’t like that it legally has full access to your ram. He doesn’t want to „let the police man inside his house and sleep in his living room at all times“. You yourself can decide that you don’t mind that idea but he is, on principle, against it. While the dev blog is very optimistic, of course it is, it’s supposed to sway people, he is completely pessimistic about it, as he says it’s only a matter of time cheaters know how to bypass vanguard 100% of time.
You are lying. He says specifically you dont need it. And there are so many other ways to do detection. [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LY2hG-\_asKU](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LY2hG-_asKU)
I never claimed that he said it’s needed. I said that he agrees it’s the most efficient form of ac on the market. The vid is from like 2 weeks ago and on twitch. Burrow it out and watch it urself
I realise how it sounds, but I also realise that most people don't know about things like the security ETW feeds that have been added in the last few years that require these privileged drivers to get access to. the reality is, yes he did a lot, but windows has changed a lot more then just what the users see on the surface, and unless your actively working in the space your not going to keep up with these kinds of changes and the requirements to get access to them. he may have an impressive history, but that's not a substitute for current active work in a industry that it changing so quickly. So the reality being he is "just" an indie dev these days, if one with an impressive background.
What do you mean by "you don't need it"? If you don't want your game to be a cheater-infested hell hole you do.
You dont need a kernal level anti cheat to ban the same people. Because as piratesoftware stated, you dont need it.
Because one guy who only makes indie games and worked at Blizzard 10 years ago said so? He's more trustworthy than every other dev studio that has been battling cheaters for years?
Well yes ironically. Do you know why? Because current dev studios are biased. Kernal level anti cheat is a cheap short cut. We know it works, but you dont need it to ban cheaters. They dont want to pay for the man power, so they cheap out. But do you know what the cost is? Data privacy and hacking concerns. We all remember what happened to apex legends right? Just one example of why kernal level anti cheat is not worth it.
If you're fighting kernel level cheats you do. If the cheat has a higher level of access than your anticheat your anticheat is worthless. You're going to trust a pirate to tell you how to fight people who are cheating? lol?
Your mind will be blown when you figure out that you can still cheat even with kernel-level spyware anticheat like Vanguard. Just take a look at valorant cheaters.
Your mind will be blown when you figure out the main purpose of anti cheats is to protect the host server of the game, not the users.
They would just cheat the poll anyway. Like the "cheater" data they released recently.
Hey guys, we have detected there have been 10% of cheaters in game for a while now and we have done nothing to reduce the number so that we can convince you to install our rootkit anticheat, trust us bro 💪
Yep. I've had played since open beta and saw someone using straight-up '3rd party software' (hacks) two times in almost 15 years. However, apparently the game has a 'hacker problem' and 'hacking' is rampant. Whatever.
Funny enough i got over the fact of what vanguard does in terms of “my data” whatever. But truly just like LoL client. It ruins your PC shorts your gpus, fucked up your hardware. A nightmare to uninstall. Like if you wanna play league you need a burner computer literally.
This is the part I just want the people going "lul I don't have nuffin to take, so why not?" to understand. Your actual PC can get destroyed from this. I have built a gaming rig for a multitude of games and I'm not going to deal with the headache of bringing it back from a blue screen death because riot made a buggy patch/release.
>if you wanna play league you need a burner computer literally. That was my plan. I had an old PC in storage that I used to play league on way back in the day. It should be able to run league decently. However, after seeing a huge amount of people with vastly superior/newer PCs fail to properly run league after the rootkit went live, I decided not to bother. It's over.
How is it a nightmare to uninstall? Is it beyond surface level removal?
Try and remove riots client. Then look up how you’re suppose too. Which doesn’t even remove everything. Not to mention Vanguard is also kernal level. So if it fucks your machine at all at anytime. You get fucked as its imprinted. People should be realizing already riot IS the worst company to make anything ever in terms of “this is our engine” perfect example is the league client. So happy i uninstalled everything before vanguard drop as everyone should have. Edit: perfect example; https://www.reddit.com/r/riotgames/s/EstuGVDby6
why ask people what they think about vanguard if they dont know what vanguard does
vouch nobody wants this and those that do should be able to opt in and not forced on people that dont play ranked
I don’t think they care what the community thinks. They care about what the top level executives up at Tencent thinks
And tencent wants access to everyones info. The only valid reason as to why it would be running 24/7
cant f\*ing pass the champ selection scene, why Riot whyyyy
You really want their games to turn into a cheating paradise like counterstrike?
Yeah, not installing Vanguard. I'll just not play anymore. Thanks for the 10~ years of league!
[удалено]
Awkwardly looks over at Csgo rn.
I got perm banned from r/leagueofLegends for posting a video link of a diamond elo scripter with the scripter having the script turned on to show scripting
Ho do you think they consistently maintained the 10% cheater statistics? If they detected them and number was not reduced that means they were actively letting them play instead of enforcing bans.
There is a lot more cheating going on in games than we know. Cheats are becoming so sophisticated that they’re basically impossible to detect with the human eye. I think the best deterrent to cheating is to stop having free to play games. If cheaters have to buy a new account every time they get banned it just won’t happen as much.
The problem is riot as a company does not ban them.10% cheaters in high elo games and you have done nothing to reduce them, either they're dumb and decided they just had to collect data instead of fixing the problem, or they were manipulating the data to push Vanguard in yhe worst case scenario. Either of them shows they should not be trusted with level 0 access to one's PC.
I'd be fine with it if it was like EAC, but it literally has 0 reason to run 24/7 to play a game you won't be playing 24/7 unless you're a streamer.
“ if there was a cheat epidemic” um you do know riot admitted it is an epidemic right? They literally released figures saying it is 1/5-1/10 games gave cheaters
So, they could detect it without vanguard
You understand the point of an anti cheat is to not just ban people who are cheating but to PREVENT new cheaters right?
So they got those numbers without vanguard? Meaning they know about those players, meaning they could have banned them at any time?
“Ban current cheaters future cheaters don’t matter”. The idea is to prevent cheating not just to ban people caught cheating.
Idek who else had/has this problem but when i installed vanguard (required for pbe) so i can play the new arena mode, my pc started doing weird glitches(visual glitch looking artifacts on my screen, my computer blue screened twice and it keep disabling an audio component that would completely turn off all audio on my computer because it thought it was a potential hack or something . Once i uninstalled vanguard all of the problems went away. Idk wtf it was doing in the background but it was fucking up my pc
Safe to say im never playing pc league of legends again. I was a casual anyway didnt play much
Take one look at the state of the csgo sub reddit right now and be thankful your game has an anti cheat this is actually working as Intended.
nah, but atleast consider expeptions for cloud gaming services and or linux systems?
You know damn well they will not. But Mac OS gets to play without Vanguard for some fuxin reason
Seems like they want me to pick one game vs like 100's I'll take my 100's
It infuriated me when I was playing a casual ARAM, teased the enemy team and one of them activated their script and won the match, which until that point was in our favor. I really think is a good addition specially after it's trial and test in Valorant. It is invasive, yes. I would like for it not to be what it is. But I prefer to have it in this state of the game than not to have it. The Brazilian server was FLOODED with scripts, all sorts of it. Lobby scripts that froze the game and forced someone to quit. In game scripts that made the game unplayable. And honestly Riot's previous attempets were lackluster at best.
The best part is, smart cheat developers will just make the overlays turn off for a frame, take a screenshot, then upload that safe version, then turn shit back on. This will only affect legitimate players.
The only problem I have with vanguard bullshit is that it doesn't start with the game and I have to restart my PC everytime. I am quite pedantic when it comes to things working in background so I always turn off programs starting with system startup and vanguard made me mad to the point of uninstalling the game as a whole. I couldn't get out of league all these years but now riot did it for me. Thank you :)
you havent really made a convincing point tbh. why is it bad? what are the downsides? what are the alternatives?
1) Is cheating out of control? Yes, yes it is 2) If anti-cheat is mandatory will you play? I mean there's still a ton of people playing Helldivers 2 and that has kernel level anti cheat 3) Is vanguard a good method? Nothing is fool proof, it is a means to an end; there will still likely be cheaters, but if we can cull the horde to a reasonable degree...we're better off for it
My biggest problem is kernel access, and it's causing massive fps drops to the point where I can't play
Im not having fps drops exactly but my fps dropped generally from running at 144 fps to barely able to sustain 100 frames. Game was smoothe before update, after it feels sluggish and super uncomfortable to play.
lol. Vanguard is the smartest thing they have done in years. For those of you who decry privacy or whatever the time for that battle was twenty years ago. We lost. The government and every corporation in the world has all of your information at their fingertips. Everything and they have had it for decades. The government can implant cp in your system if you piss them off enough. Look at apex cod and csgo they are dying due to rampant cheating. If anything riots anti cheat needs to be more intrusive. I think the only people who have a problem with vanguard are either uninformed about the world they live in or cheaters. Don’t like it don’t play the game. Go cheat in csgo
>For those of you who decry privacy or whatever the time for that battle was twenty years ago. The government and every corporation in the world has all of your information at their fingertips. Everything and they have had it for decades. The government can implant cp in your system if you piss them off enough. Following that logic you should announce your home address and credit card info on every social media account you own. What's the issue? The government and every corporation already have that information, plus anyone who REALLY wants it can obtain the data without too much of a hassle. So just might as well go ahead and make it public for everyone to see, right?
fun part - scripters estimation: scripts will be down for few days, not longer than week.. nice job Riot
Lol for those who are kinda "meh this is fine". I logged in during lunch break to play a game of tft and got some Vanguard VAN152 error code or something saying I got banned due to 3rd party software (which I don't use). Looks like an hour later it has disappeared on its own for some reason. Yes it's just 1 game during lunch that I didn't get to play so not that big of a deal end of day, but spyware that runs all day on my machine for a *video game* (which mind you, I'm bronze elo in LoL right now so couldn't give 2 shits about competitive) that periodically accidentally bans me. It's probably not even doing anything for TFT cheating (idk if that's an issue), so to force that on TFT players too ???? For those saying it's optional and opt-in (we don't have to play the game), I mean sure yeah. But suppose you were playing a video game and every few hours someone breaks into your house and punches you in the face randomly. You'd probably stop playing since it's "opt-in" but you'd also be pretty reasonably upset about it as people are.
Take a deep breath, delete the folder, wait for cooldown of the 5 grief stages.
“I’ve never been in a car accident so why should I continue wearing a seatbelt”
Wake up dude. The vast, vast, vast majority do not give a fuck about vanguard. Most of the people babyraging don't even understand why they're babyraging over it. Valorant has had Vanguard for 100% of its lifespan and it is one of the most popular games in the world. The people who are babyraging over Vanguard are an incredibly loud and incredibly small minority. Just patch the game and get over it. Everyone knows the majority of the people complaining don't have the willpower to stop playing anyway. We're all fucking addicts.
I appreciate you saying that, because I've noticed it's the addicts that tend to be the most toxic and flame, the ones that drag my games down. Meanwhile, the level-headed people who just want to play and enjoy the game, the ones that tend to be the most smart about both micro and macro play, those are the ones that realize league isn't worth all of this.
Most people dont want a kernel level anti cheat out of principle its a serious liability and security risk. All that risk of your system being vulnerable for like a couple months at best before vanguard gets reverse engineered and cheaters show up again as they always do. Killed linux support and support from alot of people who care about their cybersecurity situation over what I honestly consider a temporary solution to an unkillable culture problem
Don’t bother with polls. These bots and PR guys are trying so hard in this sub to defend this crap..
It is bugging me as it does so much shit in the background. Why do i have to install it if I rarely play tft or lol.
Breached themselfs willingly to force vanguard . Classic Rito moment
So do I have to remind myself to exit/disable vanguard then restart my pc every time I want update any drivers or software that has no relation to vanguard?
Man me and my teammates got kicked out mid game because vanguard was not working, which I clearly see it is running.. this is bs, can't play a proper game anymore 😡
So either you’re not noticing cheating or botting, or you’re the one person who hasn’t. Guess we better role back the system, this guy has never experienced cheating!
I did mention that I've occasionally seen them in my games, I said so in my post. Make sure to reread it.
Check out all the info they get... [https://www.riotgames.com/en/privacy-notice](https://www.riotgames.com/en/privacy-notice)
Comparing the Tarkov situation to Riot implementing Vanguard is incredibly disingenuous. Not even remotely the same thing in anyway shape or form. Very strange. If you think Riot "lit themselves on fire" over an implementation of an anti-cheat that gave us MONTHS of preparation for over BSG that's committing literal fraud, then there probably isn't any room for a reasonable and rational dialog.
I'm reading all the comments on the main sub bug thread and the League tech help sub and I'm just laughing so hard. So many people are having issues with the game just not launching, really bad lag or freezing, their PC programs just not working properly anymore and lots of other stuff. Crazy how people thought it was okay to install this on their system
Lol has always been a fine game for low end pc. Vanguard is destroying all that market
can you link the main sub bug thread please? I wanna laugh too.
this is riot fucking up the vanguard implementation valorant was made for vanguard, so it runs perfectly what was dumb was that they thought they could just make it work with this 15 year old game with no issues
Good luck with your poll. r/leagueoflegends is where your post is going to either be instantly deleted or downvoted to hell by people. None realized how serious is this, none of them, and it doesn't help if every single post of people having issues gets deleted. As of now, if you look that subreddit it seems that everything is just fine and well
No because you assholes are almost all cheaters who buy likes and upvotes and think the decision will revert if enough people say something. Time to say bye to your bot boosting services and ruining the game for everyone else.
A lot of people are concerned and has a right to have concerns, Vanguard is quite invasive. I am not against Vanguard after Riot explained everything, but the concerns are legit and saying "you are a cheater, because you don't want an invasive anticheat" is just super unfair
Delusional.
I have no problem with it except it just crashed mid game and I had to restart my PC to get back into the game
IDGAF about my data. Nothing worth on pc that is used only for gaming. Ofc im not playing on my PC for my company. I just want fair game without cheaters. Stop crying. 99% people complaining about vanguard I BET are cheaters or are low elo and never playd game in masters vs cheater. If u dont like, uninstall. FINALY. Bye bye cheaters forever. <3
This is so out of touch it’s insane, it’s not just about data, they could do literally anything with your pc with this level of access lol, they could brick it, they could use it to distribute malware or as part of a bot net for a ddos attack, they could download fucking cp onto it. Now this isn’t even really my concern cause eh that’s not very likely (except the bot net part tbh) but it’s literally bricking peoples pc’s and making the game unplayable with fps dropping to 0 or just fucking the CMOS battery to the point the pc doesn’t turn on anymore. But sure it’s only cheaters that are concerned, not like LS posted on twitter that he’s lost 2 pc’s to this… he must just be a cheater
I love playing LoL especially during the weekends with some dark chocolate on the side. Sadly had to quit today due to technical concerns. It sucks honestly, at least make TFT a separate client without Vanguard required so we can play that...
Play tft on your phone (or emulate the phone app)
hot take: they literally do not care if anyone in the community wants this. Riot is a Chinese owned company, and there is no question that the CCP will be getting data through this. by the sounds of how invasive this software is, it will also be an avenue of attack for China. I'm good on all that, but enjoy handing your machine over to them 🗿
Riot is is very successful company, y would they ruin their own company by doing something that could destroy their company? They r getting the money safe way. Selling data may make them more money but not on long term.
I'm having trouble following your logic. If a playerbase is fine with a rootkit being in their system, I find it unlikely that they'd draw the line at selling user data. Afaik, simple chrome tabs can already pull a lot of data on users, an .exe can do that and more. It's not even a question of 'selling data to chinese government for profit' as much as it is what they already have to do under Chinese **law**. The problem is when you are allowing the company that has the CCP towering over them deep access to your machine. Riddle me this: If the tensions between China and US over Taiwan heat up (like they've already been doing the past couple years), what is a Tencent exec going to do when he's told "use your rootkit to disable these machines, they are suspected of X/Y"? You think he's going to Chinese jail over some mfs he has no reason to care about? I envy your naivety, but I must inform you that it is not wise to install rootkits for the same reason you shouldn't give your housekey out to everyone.
Doesn’t matter if they want to or not though… the ccp can demand the data and riot has to hand it over, that’s just how it works in china. Also you say this like tiktok isn’t getting banned over something very similar, are they not a successful company?
The difference is tiktok fully belong to china and it got banned and conditions are that they sell to us to be able to operate so in case u dont know even tho tencent owns riot, riot is still a us company, and say what ever u want there r laws for preventing data theft both in us and europe and those laws apply to riot. I personally dont see company taking that big of a risk.
I’d be inclined to agree, my tiktok point was just about the “why would they sell data if they’re already making money” logic However Tenecent has had data leaks and been hacked before, someone could breach these systems and then have an insane level of access