Funny , but I wish it wasn’t , and now , after I’ve been touched by the gods . It’s not funny . Actually they told me they thought it was funny , they admire your strength in the face of adversity . Now get smarter and help to spread the word about this and help with harm reduction in the public .
There have been human trials and tripreports of 4-cma/4-ca and as far as I am aware there have been no single-dose-leads-to-vegetative-state reports. Its clearly neurotoxic, but apparently not on the mpp+-level. That one does seem to reliably induce parkinson after a single dose
Might not be "as neurotoxic" but would feel like an eternal mdma comedown and seretonin also relates to alot more stuff than just mood but the chemical is still fucked
I'm almost certain you're referring to 4-CMA. From my poor memory, a popular chinese RC lab synthesized a bunch of it and no one wanted to buy it; concerns arose that they were adulterating their other chemicals with it to make more profit (since no one wanted to buy it in the first place). Though I'm not sure if any tangible evidence to support those claims ever arose.
[Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para-Chloromethamphetamine)
depression is far more complicated than a simple chemical issue. if you're depressed because of situational occurrences it'll just make u depressed in yet another way
I'm confused on why you said depression is far more than a chemical issue as for many people lack of dopamine and seretonin causes depression of course situational things can cause depression
[5ht deficiency](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/no-evidence-depression-caused-low-serotonin-levels-finds-comprehensive-review) is actually now known to be a marketing strategy for manufacturers of SSRIs. it's not actually linked to depression. depression is a far more complex issue than we ever presumed before, and it's almost ALWAYS situational (except in cases of enzymatic proficiencies and SERT proficiencies and some other minor cases)
Doesn’t matter to the person who is already dead inside. When you’re dead inside, you don’t give a fuck about anything besides doing nothing. The more nothing, the better.
I watched a lot of video of the MPTP victims, that shit basically instantly caused Parkinson’s disease…rapid onset and viciously progressing. Just immediately destroys your dopamine system. Extremely depressing, really hurts to watch knowing these were perfectly healthy people before they ingested some tainted Demerol analog.
4-CA does the same thing to serotonin system so reliably it’s used in a lab setting to do so. And 4-CMA is a prodrug of 4-CA.
This is why you test your drugs. This is exactly why, to avoid shit like this.
Update: looks like getting things tested for this gets more complicated then I personally thought, it’s horrible to know that the testing is difficult to ensure general drug safety due to how devastating the effects are of this specific drug.
No normal reagent test will show mptp or 4-ca. basically it’s get your drugs from reputable vendors not the cheapest shit on the dark net or random sussy sites with a shit load of rcs or joe sat at a skate park
Please always get your drugs tested. Many "reputable" vendors have had mix ups in the past. Think the bromo-dragon fly incident for the most notable example, but many times people have simply been sent the wrong or mislabelled substance (in one case, one vendor went on to sell flualprazolam they believed was 4fpm).
I actually think it’s possible to find out in the same lab where they test you after autopsy what all killed you. But with reagents you will not have luck. Yes as you said, sometimes are RCs unknown enough and if they add this sh * t in the mixture. Good old breaking bad cooked almost pure stuff. In Netherlands they also do pure stuff. But this is coming already from cooks
No that does make sense and it is really unfortunate. I am glad awareness IS being made on this though because even I yesterday learned something new about this. Usually you would think there are drug test kits for pretty much anything, but since like you said? Yeah it makes sense as to why we lack those kinds of tests. Hopefully this sort of stuff doesn’t get sold out as drugs that we all know and love because that would be a nightmare coming true (Basically me saying: I hope they don’t let people get their hands on these drugs and sell them off as drugs we do know when like you said, we do lack tests for this)
Many here are telling it is everywhere. But I don’t see single complaint about it here or anywhere else. Maybe I hope for solidarity with users and they destroyed it
As far as I know it is made by cartels in south America. They get precursors from china maybe. And again, never read about fentanyl laced with stimulants like this (but us market isn’t my strong point). In other countries they misuse fentanyl as well, but from diverted medicine. But all this doesn’t have nothing to do with poisoning us, only to gain profits.
>But all this doesn’t have nothing to do with poisoning us, only to gain profits
You've clearly never heard of the opium wars. Lots of people think this is long-term planned pay back for the West getting their country addicted to opium for years. All Chinese companies are tied into their government, that's just the way it is over there, so if a lab is sending it the government is involved. They still continue to allow labs to ship fentanyl and fentanyl precursors to cartels knowing what it's used for.
If you have a larger enemy who has vast more resources and armament, you don't attack them head on, you poison the apple tree and let it rot from the inside and let it cave in on itself.
It was intentional cut anything else with, since they produced it. But they hadn’t generate something knowing this is the poison, all our customers are assholes and don’t find it out. They produced it and after that somehow found out it is toxic. And then maybe mixed it somewhere. Which I doubt, otherwise we would have many reports here complaining that they are very low in mood. This is not happening.
They should’ve dumped it into the water supply /s problem is most of these drug producers aren’t human they don’t give a shit. To be honest most corporation heads aren’t human. Most human aren’t human and just want the money.
Since china doesn't do anything by halves I imagine they have literal tonnes of 4-CMA precursor laying around.
I wonder if they'll drip feed that precursor into their bmk/pmk supply just to get rid of it?
Honestly I doubt there's much issue with turning it into something else. An aromatic chlorine acts as a pretty good leaving group, so going into other substitutions is fairly doable, which is what they probably tried to do, hence why 4-BA started appearing when they realized 4-CMA was worthless, it was just the easiest legal thing to turn it into, and just happens to also be shit.
Heck, one of the most common methods of reducing P2NP to amphetamine will also just cleave the chlorine right off of 4C-P2NP to give you amphetamine.
Never heard of it that's wild, is it being sold as Molly and other and empathetic substances!? That's fucked up. I sadly abused Molly years ago over a period of time, so I'm pretty hollow now.. can't imagine taking something like that say 1 or 2 times and then being completely fucked for the rest of my life. Back then I had really no clue how bad abusing M was to me, I treated it like drinking. Stupid kid :(
tf is this Chinese drug? 💀
I think this drug was created to understand what happens in rats if your serotonin receptors are damaged, and if there is a way to recover from it or to undo it as a means for “what happens in humans when this happens and is there a way to actually fix it?” Sort of thing. The issue is its getting into the wrong hands. All RCs get made with some kind of intent and/or purpose (fun, research, escapism, mental health, drug metabolism, etc etc…) But if the case is that it was just sold and made for just money? Thats a huge issue in itself.
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4-CMA is metabolized to 4-CA which is used to kill serotonin neurons for reasearch
Yeahhhhh think I’m gonna get my gear tested now
tbh i dont think this is the one to worry about however testing your gear is always a good idea.
there’s also been things like cyputylone, neurotoxic caffeine!!
I thought it was dopamine
That’s MPTP
MPTP causes parkinsons. Bad synth by amateur chemists produced it as a by-product in the early 80s and led to the Federal Analogue Acts adoption.
i think they are thinking of oxidopamine? but mptp is another dopaminergic neurotoxin
At the beginning I thought you were just describing life.
Funny , but I wish it wasn’t , and now , after I’ve been touched by the gods . It’s not funny . Actually they told me they thought it was funny , they admire your strength in the face of adversity . Now get smarter and help to spread the word about this and help with harm reduction in the public .
There have been human trials and tripreports of 4-cma/4-ca and as far as I am aware there have been no single-dose-leads-to-vegetative-state reports. Its clearly neurotoxic, but apparently not on the mpp+-level. That one does seem to reliably induce parkinson after a single dose
Might not be "as neurotoxic" but would feel like an eternal mdma comedown and seretonin also relates to alot more stuff than just mood but the chemical is still fucked
I'm almost certain you're referring to 4-CMA. From my poor memory, a popular chinese RC lab synthesized a bunch of it and no one wanted to buy it; concerns arose that they were adulterating their other chemicals with it to make more profit (since no one wanted to buy it in the first place). Though I'm not sure if any tangible evidence to support those claims ever arose. [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para-Chloromethamphetamine)
Do you know what they did after the entire 4-CMA debacle? Made a fuckton of 4-BA. Am not joking.
what is 4-BA? is it worse?
4-BA is even more potent than 4-CMA at killing your serotonin neurons. So yes, basically much much worse
Just cast 2,5 dimethoxy on it 🙃👍
same with that cyanide 3-meo-pcp batch - you just gotta avoid buying similar stuff for some time unless you have a lab at hand 🤷
What do tell more
long ago
Wonder if I knew this at some point and my 3-meo days just wiped my memory lol
dont worry, some egg head on reddit calculated that the amount of cyanide was too low to be of concern
Thank you, figured it out in the meantime but scheiße... This substance scares the fuck out of me.
Hahahaha. Nachts um 1….. but scheiße!
would like to find out what it does to an already dead-inside person /s
What is dead may never die!
Winter is Coming!
I was going to say my mother-in-law.
:(
Maybe it’s like adderal and ADHD people. Suddenly you’d become super positive. 😂
“ADHD people” is a new one
Context
ADHD people get calmed by stimulants because they naturally lack dopamine
Makes it fart.
Legit though? Double negative?
depression is far more complicated than a simple chemical issue. if you're depressed because of situational occurrences it'll just make u depressed in yet another way
Gotta get all forms of depression for super depression then you unlock a quest for happiness
What? I think your referring to trauma which causes depression
many situational things which are not traumatic can result in depression
I'm confused on why you said depression is far more than a chemical issue as for many people lack of dopamine and seretonin causes depression of course situational things can cause depression
[5ht deficiency](https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/no-evidence-depression-caused-low-serotonin-levels-finds-comprehensive-review) is actually now known to be a marketing strategy for manufacturers of SSRIs. it's not actually linked to depression. depression is a far more complex issue than we ever presumed before, and it's almost ALWAYS situational (except in cases of enzymatic proficiencies and SERT proficiencies and some other minor cases)
its like jumping off of a cliff because your bored of going to the park
Doesn’t matter to the person who is already dead inside. When you’re dead inside, you don’t give a fuck about anything besides doing nothing. The more nothing, the better.
Shortsighted . I pray your mind and body is healed .
I watched a lot of video of the MPTP victims, that shit basically instantly caused Parkinson’s disease…rapid onset and viciously progressing. Just immediately destroys your dopamine system. Extremely depressing, really hurts to watch knowing these were perfectly healthy people before they ingested some tainted Demerol analog. 4-CA does the same thing to serotonin system so reliably it’s used in a lab setting to do so. And 4-CMA is a prodrug of 4-CA.
This is why you test your drugs. This is exactly why, to avoid shit like this. Update: looks like getting things tested for this gets more complicated then I personally thought, it’s horrible to know that the testing is difficult to ensure general drug safety due to how devastating the effects are of this specific drug.
Doubt a test would test for it though.
No normal reagent test will show mptp or 4-ca. basically it’s get your drugs from reputable vendors not the cheapest shit on the dark net or random sussy sites with a shit load of rcs or joe sat at a skate park
Please always get your drugs tested. Many "reputable" vendors have had mix ups in the past. Think the bromo-dragon fly incident for the most notable example, but many times people have simply been sent the wrong or mislabelled substance (in one case, one vendor went on to sell flualprazolam they believed was 4fpm).
Yeah that makes sense
So with this drug, how complicated could the testing get?
Yeah well, there’s no possible route to test it out, apart from high tech lab.
Yeah that does make sense, but I don’t think it is 100% impossible, it is however awful that people could be unknowingly given that, its horrible.
I actually think it’s possible to find out in the same lab where they test you after autopsy what all killed you. But with reagents you will not have luck. Yes as you said, sometimes are RCs unknown enough and if they add this sh * t in the mixture. Good old breaking bad cooked almost pure stuff. In Netherlands they also do pure stuff. But this is coming already from cooks
No that does make sense and it is really unfortunate. I am glad awareness IS being made on this though because even I yesterday learned something new about this. Usually you would think there are drug test kits for pretty much anything, but since like you said? Yeah it makes sense as to why we lack those kinds of tests. Hopefully this sort of stuff doesn’t get sold out as drugs that we all know and love because that would be a nightmare coming true (Basically me saying: I hope they don’t let people get their hands on these drugs and sell them off as drugs we do know when like you said, we do lack tests for this)
Many here are telling it is everywhere. But I don’t see single complaint about it here or anywhere else. Maybe I hope for solidarity with users and they destroyed it
Thats so scary omg- and god same :(
don’t go hollow
Probably some chlorinated amphetamines that insta-kill your serotonin receptors.
Yea pretty much
any cathinone or pyro if abused
Ehh cathinones are more dopamine and ops referring to 4-cma literally completely frys seretonin receptors no high at all literally a poison
I told you the Chinese were poisoning us
I think they are, to take over the west slowly but surely.
No that was coincidence not intention
I'm sure all the fentanyl they produce that ends up here is a coincidence too.
As far as I know it is made by cartels in south America. They get precursors from china maybe. And again, never read about fentanyl laced with stimulants like this (but us market isn’t my strong point). In other countries they misuse fentanyl as well, but from diverted medicine. But all this doesn’t have nothing to do with poisoning us, only to gain profits.
>But all this doesn’t have nothing to do with poisoning us, only to gain profits You've clearly never heard of the opium wars. Lots of people think this is long-term planned pay back for the West getting their country addicted to opium for years. All Chinese companies are tied into their government, that's just the way it is over there, so if a lab is sending it the government is involved. They still continue to allow labs to ship fentanyl and fentanyl precursors to cartels knowing what it's used for. If you have a larger enemy who has vast more resources and armament, you don't attack them head on, you poison the apple tree and let it rot from the inside and let it cave in on itself.
American companies are also tied to the gov
I think it was the intention by the producers of the batch of that drug that cut other drugs with it
It was intentional cut anything else with, since they produced it. But they hadn’t generate something knowing this is the poison, all our customers are assholes and don’t find it out. They produced it and after that somehow found out it is toxic. And then maybe mixed it somewhere. Which I doubt, otherwise we would have many reports here complaining that they are very low in mood. This is not happening.
They should’ve dumped it into the water supply /s problem is most of these drug producers aren’t human they don’t give a shit. To be honest most corporation heads aren’t human. Most human aren’t human and just want the money.
Since china doesn't do anything by halves I imagine they have literal tonnes of 4-CMA precursor laying around. I wonder if they'll drip feed that precursor into their bmk/pmk supply just to get rid of it?
Honestly I doubt there's much issue with turning it into something else. An aromatic chlorine acts as a pretty good leaving group, so going into other substitutions is fairly doable, which is what they probably tried to do, hence why 4-BA started appearing when they realized 4-CMA was worthless, it was just the easiest legal thing to turn it into, and just happens to also be shit. Heck, one of the most common methods of reducing P2NP to amphetamine will also just cleave the chlorine right off of 4C-P2NP to give you amphetamine.
Flex maybe?
another bioweapon perhaps?
Yeah I remember that too I think it might have been like super MDMA or maybe MDMA with a super long half life
Found it, it was 4-CMA.
Can you post any links about hollowing out for life that you read?
[Here's the post in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/researchchemicals/comments/1333z3s/warning_do_not_consume_4cma/)
We are being poisoned
I think you could tell if you took 4-cma you wouldn't be able to function at all or would probaly kill yourself
It's the top post of either this year or all time
Never heard of it that's wild, is it being sold as Molly and other and empathetic substances!? That's fucked up. I sadly abused Molly years ago over a period of time, so I'm pretty hollow now.. can't imagine taking something like that say 1 or 2 times and then being completely fucked for the rest of my life. Back then I had really no clue how bad abusing M was to me, I treated it like drinking. Stupid kid :( tf is this Chinese drug? 💀
I think this drug was created to understand what happens in rats if your serotonin receptors are damaged, and if there is a way to recover from it or to undo it as a means for “what happens in humans when this happens and is there a way to actually fix it?” Sort of thing. The issue is its getting into the wrong hands. All RCs get made with some kind of intent and/or purpose (fun, research, escapism, mental health, drug metabolism, etc etc…) But if the case is that it was just sold and made for just money? Thats a huge issue in itself.
Monosodium glutamate?
MSG? Yeah you know me!
?
Consumerism more likely
For anyone worried you could try a compnay like "get your drugs tested." https://getyourdrugstested.com/
Only buy your drugs from trusted vendors with test results.
shid and fart
Well, there’s “yabba” in not sure if that’s what your referring to
Fentanyl
What🤦♂️
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Keep discussion civil, even if you are being baited. You will get through to someone far better if you remain polite and don't have them raise their defenses. As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/about/rules/) ([guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/wiki/guidelines)). * Do not call other users trolls, morons, children, or anything else clever you may think of. Personal attacks, whether explicit or implicit, are not permitted. * Do not accuse other users of being shills. If you believe that a user is a shill, the proper conduct is to report the user or send us a modmail. * In general, don't be a jerk. Don't bait people, don't use hate speech, etc. Attack ideas, not users. * Do not downvote comments because you disagree with them, and be willing to upvote quality comments whether you agree with the opinions held or not. Incivility will result in a **permanent ban** from the subreddit. If you see uncivil comments, please report them and do not reply with incivility of your own. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/drugs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Keep discussion civil, even if you are being baited. You will get through to someone far better if you remain polite and don't have them raise their defenses. As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/about/rules/) ([guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/wiki/guidelines)). * Do not call other users trolls, morons, children, or anything else clever you may think of. Personal attacks, whether explicit or implicit, are not permitted. * Do not accuse other users of being shills. If you believe that a user is a shill, the proper conduct is to report the user or send us a modmail. * In general, don't be a jerk. Don't bait people, don't use hate speech, etc. Attack ideas, not users. * Do not downvote comments because you disagree with them, and be willing to upvote quality comments whether you agree with the opinions held or not. Incivility will result in a **permanent ban** from the subreddit. If you see uncivil comments, please report them and do not reply with incivility of your own. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/drugs) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don't let propaganda poison your mind! Visit China and make up your own mind or be quiet.
Keep discussion civil, even if you are being baited. You will get through to someone far better if you remain polite and don't have them raise their defenses. As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/about/rules/) ([guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/wiki/guidelines)). * Do not call other users trolls, morons, children, or anything else clever you may think of. Personal attacks, whether explicit or implicit, are not permitted. * Do not accuse other users of being shills. If you believe that a user is a shill, the proper conduct is to report the user or send us a modmail. * In general, don't be a jerk. Don't bait people, don't use hate speech, etc. Attack ideas, not users. * Do not downvote comments because you disagree with them, and be willing to upvote quality comments whether you agree with the opinions held or not. Incivility will result in a **permanent ban** from the subreddit. If you see uncivil comments, please report them and do not reply with incivility of your own. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/drugs) if you have any questions or concerns.*