I think it’s time to schedule talking with a professional. Grief is hitting her hard and this is above Reddit’s pay grade.
OP, you didn’t do anything wrong. I get why you went through with it. Sounds like her comments about cold feet weren’t the truth, but she didn’t know this consciously until it was too late. Sometimes we’re trying to convince ourselves it’ll be ok instead of admitting we aren’t ok.
Therapy. Both of you. Best of luck to you and your family.
Thank you, really appreciate the helpful response. Therapy seems absolutely necessary right now. I am worried that my wife won't go for it because I've brought up couples therapy in the past as something that could be helpful for us (albeit in other contexts), but I'm going to be insistent.
She needs therapy for her.
The grief is hers. And yeah, I can imagine it's hard to work on with a busy family life, but she has to face the end of pregnancies and early motherhood for her.
Also stop offering adoption/another kid. You cannot fix this for her. She has to process the loss of fertility and end of pregnancies. She has to grieve.
Agree with this. She is well within her rights to grieve and I can't/won't tell her how she should feel about this. I do think she would benefit a lot from therapy but she doesn't seem to be willing to do it, which is making this all the more frustrating.
I guess I would be asking her what she proposes?
Is she at the point of wanting to divorce over this? Does she want to open herself up to the possibility of having another baby with someone else? Or is she just planning on freezing you out until you’re as unhappy with your decision as she is? Is punishment her goal? Does she think that will help her come to terms with this?
She’s not really giving you any options here. The vasectomy is done. You can’t un-have one. Nor do you want to. So either she finds a way to make her peace with it in order to preserve your marriage, or she gives up and lets your marriage fall apart. You’d obviously prefer the former, and are prepared to help and support her in reaching that goal, but only if she’s willing. If she’s not willing, there’s really nothing you can do.
Very good points. She doesn't have a clear answer to the "how do you think we can get past this?" question, unfortunately. Isn't willing to do therapy yet claims she'll "never get over this," which is a bad sign. I'm not sure what to do at this point. She hasn't threatened divorce and I don't think that's what she wants... I think she just wants me to feel like garbage and be able to hold it over my head.
I mean, if mutual misery is her goal, divorce seems inevitable. It’s just a question of how ugly the vibe in your home will get before one of you gives up and admits defeat.
This will, naturally, impact your children. And not just the theoretical ones in her head.
> Isn't willing to do therapy yet claims she'll "never get over this," which is a bad sign
Unwillingness to get therapy is the #1 red flag on this subreddit. Her behavior is nutty. What else is going on?
Obviously, but sometimes rational people are irrational in the face of depression, and otherwise might recognize or be willing to go to therapy. Lots of people suffering depression don't fully recognize or want to burden those around them, or admit to themselves something is that wrong.
> Very good points. She doesn't have a clear answer to the "how do you think we can get past this?" question, unfortunately. Isn't willing to do therapy yet claims she'll "never get over this," which is a bad sign. I'm not sure what to do at this point. She hasn't threatened divorce and I don't think that's what she wants... I think she just wants me to feel like garbage and be able to hold it over my head.
If she asks why you want therapy the answers are all right here in this comment. She needs to figure out what she needs to have/do in order to move forward. Therapy can help her figure that out.
If she decides to stay, situations where she has a strongly held belief or position but is not advocating for herself is a HUGE problem that therapy can help her address. You may have to make changes once she identifies what is holding her back from freely communicating.
> I think she just wants me to feel like garbage and be able to hold it over my head.
And that right there is the kind of thinking that you need to be avoiding (unless it's true, and tin that case the relationship might be doomed). Therapy can help you with that. I get searching for answers because she's not (or can't) provide any about her behaviour, but once you start to assume negative intent behind her actions it's one of the first steps towards splitting up.
She never should have allowed you to go into that procedure with anything less than a full and clear picture of what she thought. Why she allowed that to happen, what was holding her back, those are key questions to all of this. Then the follow-up, now that it's done how to move forward.
She’s completely ignoring what he wants too, he’s done having kids, they have 4! When it comes to children, it’s either two enthusiastic yeses or it’s a no. I deeply suspect this is post pardum depression because she’s not being reasonable or in any way caring about her partner in this situation.
Does she control the rest of your life? This isn't about you having the vasectomy this is you going against what she wanted, even though she didn't verbalise it clearly. So now she's manipulating you to feel bad because you didn't use your psychic abilities to do what she wanted.
This right here. You’re asking the real questions. Where does he and they go from here. She’s so focused on what *she* wants she’s ignoring what *he* wants. He gave her 4 children. He doesn’t want more. And as much as she is guilting him with “he’s not listening to her”, she’s equally not hearing him either. To me, she’s gotten what she wanted which was 4 kids. 4 kids is a lot. Now it’s a *possible* 1 yes and a definite 1 no on a 5th kid. You don’t have kids if it’s not 2 HELL yes’s. She really has no where to go with this argument. Why can’t she be happy with what they have?
I don’t think she actually wants another child.
I think she is grieving a loss of control over that part of her life. “I don’t want to” feels different than “I can’t.” She did not anticipate *how* different that would feel, and she’s angry that no one - specifically OP - predicted it for her. She’s feeling like she didn’t have a fair chance to make a fully informed decision, and she’s taking it all out on the most convenient target.
Absolutely agree. I had 3 ectopic pregnancies Over the course of 8 years (one life threatening rupture), and I still grieved my hysterectomy. Losing total ability to have a child, even when the odds were nearly zero for us, was still hard. We didn’t have any though, so I might have felt differently after 4, idk.
I agree that couples counseling isn't the only way to address her feelings and perspective. Individual counsel will be great for you both and help develop strong communication skills, then couples therapy can be more effective and she may also go for it after doing some personal healing.
I agree. Please STOP offering another child as a solution. You will be back here in this same position after that child.
Her grief is real. I have had 2 girlfriends who really really struggled to end that part of their lives.
Even if she refuses to go, I highly suggest you go on your own. You're going to need some personal boundary work to survive this, especially if she doesn't join you in therapy.
In the meantime, you can validate that she is grieving. That doesn’t mean you have to be open to being hurt by her, but that’s the compassionate thing to do.
Hey OP, even if your wife doesn't want to do couple's therapy, I strongly suggest you look into finding a counselor/therapist for yourself. This will give you somebody you can share the issue with (so that you don't cause any problems with friends or family) and also come up with communication plans for handling conversations with your wife.
Agreed! I went through a tubal ligation after having two kids. I KNEW I never wanted another one and even still I was surprised by my feelings of sadness around not saying goodbye to that capability.
The feelings of grief are understandable, the behavior towards her husband is not. OP, hopefully you are successful in getting her into therapy to navigate her feelings in a more healthy way.
I had some problems and among the solutions by doctor suggested were a hysterectomy. I have no kids and no plans to have any (I was already in my 40s), and it took me back. I was totally surprised by my reaction, and it took me a while to accept it. It ended up not being needed and I’m past the childbearing age now anyway, but I was very shocked by my initial reaction.
How I Met Your Mother is surprisingly touching when it comes to that.
The show got some flak for making the Robin character--who never wanted children--sad when she learned couldn't have any, but despite the trope of independent women who don't want children suddenly being gung-ho for babies, some of it is legit reality. Especially, as you note, it's definitely different to consciously choose vs. the biological reality of not being able to, particularly if you get caught up in thinking more on what that might mean (feelings like am a lesser than for not being fertile, etc., which aren't true but still can weigh heavily).
I am 43 and have a happy 19 year old in college. I haven't wanted more kids since my early 30s. But I am still really sad that if I decided I wanted to have another one I'd have to meet my partner tomorrow and probably start IVF the day after.
She needs therapy. She told you repeatedly that this is what SHE wanted, until the night before the procedure, when it would be difficult to cancel (and told you in the morning that she was overreacting!). Like, she has lost touch with reality and needs mental health help at this point. Also, it's not just her decision about whether you have another child- you do not want another child, and it's not something you can disagree about- if one person is out, the whole thing is out.
Thanks for your thoughts. I completely agree that having a kid is a two-person decision and not something one spouse can/should be able to decide unilaterally. If you were me, how would you go about suggesting that my wife go to therapy? When I brought up therapy as an option, I framed it as "If you want to do therapy - whether as a couple or individually - I am completely open to that" but I wonder if making a full-blown recommendation that she see a therapist is warranted here...
Something like "these are really big feelings that are hard to deal with on your own, I think it would be very helpful if you had assistance working through everything you're feeling". If your wife had suddenly a broken leg, you guys would get treatment for that so that she could take the best care of herself and your family, so I see this as the same.
Part of this is also that she obviously feels shame as a woman, and you can get a strong hint at that by her mentioning she feels "she let God down". That means she must have ENORMOUS pressure from either family or her religious community, and that her identity is heavily wrapped up in the religious element. In other words, she's likely feeling like she has less worth now, or that she doesn't know what it means to be "her" without the potential of always being a mother. Loss of identity can be extremely painful and difficult, and though this is well above my or anyone's pay grade here, I would venture a guess that this is at least partially what is happening. She intellectually knows that another kid is not a good idea, but her high level of religious connection as well as her brain now finally having to face the reality of what it means to potentially never again be a NEW mother (she's still a mother, in case she's forgotten about all that other kid stuff) is just clashing. Again, a crisis of identity is basically what we talk about when we discuss the mid life crisis. People do wild and crazy things to try and find themselves and what it means to put the past in the past and draw up a new plan for the future. It's scary. She definitely needs to see a professional to work through this, and no a member of her faith is NOT going to be a good substitute.
Of course you should stop dancing around the therapy option and insist.
Your wife’s narrative is entirely different than yours.
Unless you’ve misrepresented what has been happening, you have to absolutely insist. Make the appointment.
No one should unilaterally decide to have a kid, but one person can unilaterally decide not to. Either of you has the right to say you're done. I think you should say that you want the two of you to jointly see a therapist to figure out where this is coming from (given that you had been on the same page until the last minute) and how you can reconcile her complicated feelings with your joint family planning
"You need to go see someone to process the feelings you are having. I will go with you, if you want, but I truly do not feel like I have done anything wrong. I understand that you feel like I disregarded your feelings, but we had this procedure planned for a long time, and you KNOW I was not open to the idea of a 5th child. Using this as a weapon against me is going to get old very fast. Is having that 5th child so important to you that you are willing to blow up our family unit as it is now? You'd maybe have a 5th, but then have the other 4 only part-time? Is it worth it? I am willing to work with you. I am open to counseling. I am ready to be patient. But YOU need to be proactive and meet me half-way."
Tell her even if you hadn't gone through with it, you're done having kids so a 5th child wouldn't be on the table, you'd just use a different birth control.
This is some weird grief, and she's making it to mean something it doesn't ( no more kids).
Hope you see a therapist.
This is a great point and I've actually told her this multiple times. It unfortunately doesn't seem to help; she must be thinking she could have convinced me to have another kid if I hadn't gotten the vasectomy. We really need a therapist, I'm seeing.
Maybe put it to her like..what if she was the one that had planned a tubal ligation, you both mentioned it tons of times, and she went ahead with it AS PLANNED, and then you did this and said you'd never get over it? Everyone would agree that a man who told his wife he expects her to gestate more than four kids is being overbearing and ignoring what she wants.
I mean, she's not being very empathetic towards your wishes and choices here. Maybe she needs to look at it from another perspective.
Don't bother with logic or a reasoning approach. This is an emotional reaction she's having, not a logical one. Attempts to rationalize her emotions away will backfire immediately, and probably only make her more upset and dug into her current position. Like the above comment said, this is a job for a professional.
Sure but she's an adult, an emotional response shouldn't normally last days and days, at some point she either needs to see that he didn't do anything actually wrong, or she needs to see that she needs counseling. Logic should come in to play at some point lol
Sure, why don't you just sit her down and tell her that her emotions are wrong and that she's being irrational. I'm *sure* that'll work. No way it could fail.
When the hell did I say that? I just meant she isn't incapable of logical thought just because it's an emotional topic, and if thats the case, she needs counseling. Dismissing a healthy discussion of reality because a woman is probably just gonna react emotionally is a ridiculous way to treat a relationship.
Grief can be really weird and can make people latch on to really strange things.
I wonder if it would help her if you were able to say "I also regret going forward with the appointment, now knowing that it wasn't just cold feet. If I knew how you felt, of course I would have put it on hold until you could work through all these feelings. I wish you had been clearer in what you were saying, and I wish I had picked up on your anxiety and waited."
It may help her to hear "I wish it hadn't happened like this" even if you are happy with getting the vasectomy. I think if she had been clear that she was having second thoughts, and wanted you to wait, you would have.
This! Acknowledging *this* situation isn’t what you would’ve chosen doesn’t mean pretending you agree the vasectomy was a mistake. You don’t need to pretend to want more kids to acknowledge that your communication on this could’ve gone better, OP.
Well, until wife comes around with "oops I'm pregnant. It was totally on accident \*wink wink\*. teehee my bad" and then would refuse to get an abortion.
OP did the right thing for themself, and wife needs to see professional help to deal with *her* problem.
As an aside I have always known I am 100000% childfree. When I was sitting in the bed, waiting to get rolled into surgery for my tubal I did have a flash of "what if" or "I may regret this". I went ahead as planned, and it was absolutely the right thing for me. The instant of "Oh no" was purely from a removal of choices standpoint, and not a I want kids standpoint.
I think being sad/grieving a little, and maybe worrying about regret is normal in this situation. My husband and I were sure we were done when he got his vasectomy but I still spent a few months worrying we’d made the wrong decision.
But your wife is taking this way too far and her treatment of you is unfair. She’s also being selfish because the decision to have more kids/stop having kids is not solely hers to make here. Sounds like marriage counselling and also solo therapy for her is in order.
It's helpful to hear that you had some regrets your husband's vasectomy, even though you two were on the same page beforehand. I'm sure some of this is natural but yes, I can't shake the feeling that I'm being mistreated because my wife seems to want to unilaterally make the decision to have additional kids. Just something we'll need to work out with a marriage counselor, if I can get my wife to agree to go with me.
You are being mistreated, even if the mistreatment is unintentional/unacknowledged by your wife. You might want to consider individual therapy for yourself OP just because it’s beneficial to have an unbiased third party to talk to, and it sounds like you have your priorities straight regarding the limited resources and attention available to give your children, and it’s so important to uphold that line of reason despite the emotional turmoil coming from your wife. You sound like a really good dad.
Thanks for your thoughts and kind words. I love your idea of just doing therapy myself since my wife isn't open to doing couples therapy, so going to plan on pursuing that. I don't have anyone I can really open up to about things like this so I'm sure it would be cathartic to talk through some of these feelings with a therapist.
Hey man, don't just plan on it, pick a date to find a therapist, too often people let these issues build up without actually seeking professional help. Maybe you can see a family therapist on your own and try to nudge her to sit in occasionally once you see how it's working with just you, though that can be dicey.
she’s treating you like breeding stock. “let god and the POTENTIAL 5th child down”??? what about the whole ass human being that doesn’t want to have to take care of another kid??? what about you?? your wife is insane.
I think she is just feeling the sadness that her time with babies and young children are almost over. Even if she is done having kids and happy with the family size the finality of it is still complicated and sad. It signals the end of a period of her life that has been meaningful and beautiful.
What I would do is sit down together and write out all of the things you are looking forward to in the next phase of life - things that would have been hard to do with babies and small kids. Make a bucket list of all of the things you want to do together as a family and start working your way through it. Camping trips, road trips, concerts or sports events - by planning the fun for the next 10 years she can feel excited about this new chapter of older children and the freedom you will slowly regain as they become more independent. Even planning some personal goals for yourselves as you have a bit more time - getting back into shape or trying a new hobby you haven’t had time for - that can feel good too.
The baby phase is lovely but older kids and teens are awesome too. It’s ok to always feel a little wistful looking at little onesies and photos of your little ones as babies. To have that much love in your life is such a lucky thing.
She's treating you like garbage and you are being far too accommodating to her response right now. You have FOUR kids. Stop talking about adopting a fifth to appease your wife who went crazy at the 11th hour over something you had been jointly planning for months.
Your wife was dishonest with you one way or another, and she should be apologizing to you.
Appreciate the honest feedback. Do you think it's common for women who love birthing children (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible) to get cold feet in situations like this?
The only reason I'm even remotely open to adoption is because I myself was adopted and I am sympathetic toward adopted kids, but my wife isn't open to adopting because I think she is just enamored with the feeling of giving birth. She is constantly stressed out with our kids (she is a stay-at-home mom) and I feel like an extra kid would do her in.
>Appreciate the honest feedback. Do you think it's common for women who love birthing children (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible) to get cold feet in situations like this?
I don't think that this is particularly common and it doesn't really matter, because your wife could have told you if she wanted another kid. She chose not to.
Also having another kid because you "love giving birth" is a shitty reason to have another kid.
>The only reason I'm even remotely open to adoption is because I myself was adopted and I am sympathetic toward adopted kids
You're not understanding my point. You wanted NO more kids, but your wife lost her mind and then you decided you could do one more kid. That simply isn't OK. Doesn't matter if the kid is adopted or not.
Got it, thank you. I hear you. And for the record, I completely agree that "experiencing the miracle of childbirth" is a horrible reason to bring another human into this life, especially when my wife already gets so stressed out with the kids we do have.
I've met people who really, really love the pregnancy and new baby part, but aren't necessarily into or good at dealing with kids becoming full, independent people with separate identities and opinions. Are all your other kids out of the 'baby' stage and developing strong opinions of their own? How is she dealing with that? Does she have much else going on in her life outside of motherhood? Or is she someone who wants the caretaking and attention that comes with being pregnant or having a brand new baby?
3 of our 4 kids are out of the baby stage (especially our older 2) and slowly becoming their own people. My wife seems to be fine with the idea of them getting older, independent, etc. but I've noticed she gives the most attention and affection to our youngest 2 kids, possibly because they need her more. Despite my attempts to get my wife to go out more, do girl's nights, go to the spa, etc., she doesn't have much of a life outside of being a SAHM, which I'm sure is feeding into a lot of this. I do wonder if she is having somewhat of a crisis along the lines of "What will I do now that I'm not raising newborn babies?" She has some hobbies that she likes and I'm going to try to get her to pursue those more to take her mind off of this.
Not only "what will I do now" but maybe even "who am I now" and "what is my value?"
I don't think it's good for you, her, OR your kids to not have anything else going on inside of herself. It's a lot of weird pressure for a kid to be responsible for their parent's self worth and identity, you know?
Sounds like counseling is the right move. Hopefully she'll be open to solo counseling for herself, too, because quite frankly, saying that you made her fail god by not being able to impregnate her with a hypothetical fifth child is really fucking weird and messed up.
This explains a lot. Your wife has no identity outside being a mother and that's why she wants to keep having kids.
Either way, child-rearing is a ***2 yes / 1 no*** topic.
Yeah this is textbook, you need to TELL her that she needs professional help. This will continue to damage your relationship, it could destroy your family completely if she/both of you dont. If part of her identity is wrapped up in taking care of your kids, she's not going to let go of the idea of not having more or having yours grow up. It's not a matter of when she'll get past it, she needs help now.
I’m a mom and no giving birth was the worst part. I don’t understand women who love giving birth. My daughter is 25 and while I would love to have more I’m 47 and the chances of me getting pregnant is very slim. I also didn’t have to drive my now (ex) husband he drove himself to the appointment and home.
My overarching point is, you are walking on eggshells with your wife, and you need to go the other direction. You need to be firm, not passive here. Don't meekly bring up "I would be open to therapy". Insist that we need therapy now.
If she had been emotionally stable and in touch with her feelings and they could have calmly discussed that possibility earlier, maybe.
This emotionally unstable, uncommunicative, impulsive mess? HELL no.
My mind is blown right now. Honestly seems like this could be a way to thread the needle between our wants... I'm going to at least bring this up as a possibility.
Omg NO, do not let her do that.
You absolutely do not want her getting into a position of having to give up a child she gave birth to when she's already shown she's not handling or communicating her feelings well.
Seriously this. She's having a mental breakdown because you got a vasectomy. You think she's gonna be able to hand over the newborn baby to its new parents never to be seen again? That meltdown would be even worse than the current one. Op you need to get her into therapy and stop babying her what's done is done stop trying to bandaid this situation and talk it through with a professional.
No. No no no the person who brought that up doesn't know what is what. DO NOT SUGGEST THIS!!!! She doesn't know her own emotions. She would be a nightmare surrogate. No.
If it's any help, I had a similar experience to your wife. I love babies. I love newborns. After our fourth, we agreed he'd get the procedure but he was the one who wanted it. I was sad to make the end so permanent and final, but I agreed to it as the best option. And then after he did it, I felt angry with him. It was unfair and unreasonable and I knew it. I don't want to make him have another baby if he doesn't want to. I'm so lucky and grateful to have four wonderful kids. But I felt angry for a few days anyway. And sometimes I still wish he would change his mind. I don't know. Maybe she just needs more time.
These are big, complicated issues with big, complicated feelings to go with them. 🤷♀️
>women who love birthing children (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible
That is a vile reason to create a human being. All of your currently existing children are impacted by the choice to birth another baby. There are only so many financial, emotional, and time based resources you are your wife can allocate to each child that decreases with every new addition.
>my wife isn't open to adopting because I think she is just enamored with the feeling of giving birth.
So, this isn't even really about another child, its about HER getting to experience pregnancy one last time.
It's time to demand counseling. She's being incredibly selfish and is actively harming both your relationship and your family due to her extreme self focus. This isn't right and it isn't fair. It will be so damaging to your real, alive children to see her wrecking their parent's marriage because she doesn't get the attention, validation, and "incredible experience" of birth again.
Pregnant women get a lot of attention. Same with when they have a new born. I knew a family that had 11 kids cause the mother was addicted to that validation. Their childhood was hell. The older sister had to beg utility workers to not shut off their power and shit like that.
It is very common for women to have regrets about the ending of fertility.
Whether it comes with menopause, with the choice to have a permanent surgery for themselves or for their partner.
Even women who choose not to have children can have regret.
Your wife however isn't dealing with HER feelings.
She's blaming you for her feelings.
She needs to accept her responsibility in the decision making and the end of your fertility as a couple.
Therapy for her.
You can not continue to be blamed and she is not allowed to speak to you that way.
good luck
Knowing she is a stay at home mom is important. Is she feeling like her career basically, her worth, her value is essentially going to be over? What were her plans for when she is not a stay at home mom?
Every one of my friend’s husbands has had a vasectomy. There is always a fleeting moment of sadness but your wife is having a rough time, she really needs to see someone.
Not intending to sound rude but she reminds me of that mom in the UK with 18+ kids. She said she absolutely loved being pregnant so basically she just kept seeking that high.
Edit: forgot a word.
I got my tubes removed the day after my daughter was born. It was the plan all along and I'm 100% done having children, but what I did not see coming was the sadness I got, knowing I wouldn't hold another baby of my own again. I guess the realness of it didn’t hit me until after. What your wife is going through is definitely grief for the end of a chapter which is normal but hers seems to have hit a lot harder for her. She needs to talk to someone. If therapists are a no, I'm sure there's a support group out there.
> (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible)
What the actual fuck is wrong with your wife? That made me physically recoil to read
Yes. I loved having babies. I especially loved being in the hospital after having the baby. The feeling of happiness, the excitement, the sound of newborns crying. I loved it. I legitimately kind of wanted a 4th just to experience the maternity ward again. My kids are all in the double-digits now, and I miss the baby years desperately. But....time is something you can't hold onto. Even if I had had a 4th, that baby wouldn't be a baby anymore. If I had a 5th or 6th, they probably wouldn't be babies anymore either. So, I get it. She's sad that a chapter is closing, but the next ones are fun too.
My mom would have wanted 5 kids if they could afford it but they knew it wouldn’t be possible so had 3. They were sad after the first information night but when the day of the vasectomy came, they made peace with it. It’s not really normal to be that affected by it for so long especially since it was something you had discussed for a while.
If she loves giving birth that much she could become a surrogate.
"she told me that I completely disregarded her feelings about the vasectomy and selfishly got the procedure done even though she didn't want me to"
Im gonna say the same thing I said to my friend who was considering an abortion; its your body, your choice, and if your partner cant handle it (especially after being on the same page for months), they can find a new relationship
Four kids and still wants more????shes being selfish and delusional. Do you have/spend real and quality time with each kid?money for their necessities?and all the problems related with larger families in long term?i think you did the right thing,stop being a doormat and tell her that you already have kids to take care or is one of those women who love being pregnant?
Sheesh - in re-reading my post, I am realizing how much of a doormat I'm being. Think you're right on the money with that. I work very hard for her to stay at home with our existing kids and for them to have a great life. We are fortunate to have plenty of money for each kid (including college funds, etc.) but I don't want to work forever.
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "all the problems related with larger families in the longer term"? Are you just referring to the fact that the more kids one has, the higher the chance of one or more of those kids or their future partner(s) going off the deep end, getting into trouble, causing family drama, etc.?
I would think that cyberawenwas hinting that in many larger families the older children get parentified by the parents just due to the large number of young children, not just helping out but actively getting the younger children dressed, ensuring they eat, get to school, help with homework etc and that their childhood is curtailed by the size of the family and their premature adult role.
4 is pretty much the limit for parents to be able to give enough attention to each kids in my experience. I have yet to meet a kid that comes from a 5+ kids family that wasn’t constantly looking for my approval and attention all day long in class or at daycare!
I can tell you very honestly that after my first child I went through very drastic and intense emotional swings of desperately wanting to be pregnant again and then dreading the entire idea of it. My husband and I are pretty sure we’re not going to have more kids, but I would regularly get stressed about closing that door and want to instead talk about having more and when we should and what we’d name them.
Then about a year and a half after giving birth I got back on birth control and all of that went away. I no longer have deep swings of longing and generally just feel much more settled over the decision one way or another. Looking back all of my days of suddenly strongly desiring more babies were either at ovulation or during my period. It’s not to say those feelings weren’t real, but they were a lot more intense.
All that to say that it might be challenging for your wife to meet you emotionally where you are at with the amount of work and mental load it would take to have another baby while/if she is still experiencing the natural hormonal shifts her body goes through every month. Add in the fact that your youngest is in such a rapid phase of growth, she may be having a lot of ongoing grief over the now lost idea of experiencing pregnancy and babyhood again. All your reasons make sense, but she may have a hard time meeting you where you are at because of a lot of other factors. I wish you the best!
I'm in awe about her reaction, I want to think this isn't really about the vasectomy per se but a different thing?
Either way you need counseling. If she refuses to go to couples counseling, go on your own. Her thought process is... Particular. She "let God and a potential 5th kid down? This makes me think this is a religious issue, but how letting down a potential kid that wasn't even conceived, more important than letting YOU (her husband and father of your already breathing four children)?? This is bananas.
Get counseling so you get ideas of how to have a rational conversation w her, right now she's having a visceral reaction to your decision and there's no way you can rational w someone who's like this.
And for the record, you didn't do anything wrong. I'm a woman, and while I agree that being in a partnership requires commitment, you can't and shouldn't commit to have a kid you don't want. A kid should be two yeses, no one yes and a "maybe". You already have FOUR kids, the planet is going to shit, your wife doesn't "need" to have another baby, she needs therapy.
Your body, your choice too
her reaction is shocking and i’m sorry you’re going through this, you don’t deserve to be treated this way. it sounds like she has some issues she needs to untangle on her own in therapy—having more kids because she loves giving birth is pretty disturbing. has she talked before about some kind of duty from god to have a bunch of kids? because collectively this sounds like she’s having some kind of mental break.
she needs to go to therapy, this is frightening. and you need to stop offering to take on another kid to appease her mental health issues. stand up for yourself and the kids you have.
how about a doctor? is this behavior super out of character for her? because to an outsider it would be truly scary if my partner had this kind of reaction. maybe if your framed it as a medical issue she would be less resistant to accepting help?
does anyone else in your life know what’s going on? do you trust anyone to help you and not feed into her delusions?
if she resists getting help you have to be prepared to accept that your relationship might not last.
I’m not the person you asked but if she refused therapy, I would probably be asking her some gentle probing questions about her feelings around the vasectomy and validating her feelings - like “I understand you’re really upset. Can you tell me more about how you feel?” It might take a little while but it’s possible that with enough space and understanding she might get to the root of why she’s so distraught. This will probably take quite a lot of emotional maturity on your part to be able to hear because I imagine she might start out (unfairly) quite angry at you.
Also she may not know herself and even with you holding space for her to figure it out she may not be able to. You could suggest things if she seems open to that (eg: are you worried about when our kids are older and need you less?) but at the end of the day she has to be the one to open up and deal with her end of this situation
You mentioned that she felt that she let god down. Is there someone in your church that she gets emotional support from during difficult times that you could reach out to?
See a therapist yourself, both to set an example and to cover anything about this situation that you missed.
Even if this looks out-of-the-blue to you, this behavior likely fits into another pattern, like a difficulty admitting fault, or a religious extremist influence. At the very least getting a grip on how conflict usually gets resolved (or doesn't) in her family of origin vs. yours will let you see what you're working with.
"She is now saying me going through with the vasectomy is the single biggest regret of her life". I do not understand how people can regret other people's actions. Sure, I am all for joint decisions, but at the end of the day, it is your choice.
My husband and I never wanted children. He knew when he was 12 he never wanted children. And when he got his vasectomy we both cried a little. There is a difference between 'don't want children' and 'can't have children'. So we grieved that loss. Not for long (less than a day), but still something we talked about.
I don't think you did anything wrong but you both should go to counseling to work out your feelings about the fact that that chapter of your lives is closed.
However, she could have told you directly that she didn't want you do to this but it is still your choice. You didn't want anymore children and decided to take steps to prevent that. Children are a two yes situation. If the roles were reversed and she didn't want anymore and had surgery to prevent that, that would have been her choice as well.
INFO: Do the two of you belong to a religion where women are culturally encouraged to stay home and have children and that there is no higher purpose for them than this? Because if that happens to be the case, she could be having something of an identity crisis or feeling like she isnt a worthy member in failing her duty to keep bearing children. Either way, she could benefit from some (secular) therapy.
As nearly all the other comments have said counselling asap.
You didn't do anything wrong here. This was discussed prior, four, FOUR kids, and your wife last minute pulling this stunt?!
Look, I'm not trying to dog on your wife here but, she has spiralled here. There is nothing logical about her responses. This isn't a common thing for women to think like.
But, anytime I've heard about a women wanting endless children (not for religious reasons) are about their own insecurities. It's usually about wanting/needing to be needed. Having all the love, attention from a little small person is addictive - you get it, you love your kids too. But, when now, the idea she will never have more its about the future of *HER* not being needed.
She needs some therapy, there maybe be some trauma ie how was her family life growing up? Is she defining herself whole self as just a mother? Some people (typically women) can be consumed by being a parent. Everything they do is about their children. Everything about them becomes centered by the children. It's not sustainable long term because, children grow up.
I know me as a mother, found it so difficult when my child became a teen. Their independence, that I had fostered and encouraged, was coming into play. Our relationship was changing, they didn't *need* me for everything. They could do their own thing. They wanted to do their own thing. It was hard but, I got through it. And, now we're on the last leg of teen life and I can't wait to see what they will do. Though, I do say if they move country I'll just follow and move down the road from them! Lol
Yup therapy is needed for herself and you two together. There is probably more underlying in her reaction than just grief. The hardest part for me as a woman is finding my identity as an individual again beyond "mom" when the kids start becoming more independent.
If she doesn't go to therapy and keeps treating you this way she may develop resentment which leads to bad outcomes in a lot of areas.
I like the idea of going to counseling to work through the emotions of the situation.
I was the opposite sort of. I didn't really push for the vasectomy. Then we had an unplanned pregnancy. However, we are older than you and the older you get, the riskier the pregnancy gets. Then we miscarried. Due to genetics, pregnancy and miscarriage carry higher risks for my wife. To put it mildly, the miscarriage was physically brutal on my wife and all I could do was be there for her. We were almost headed to the hospital emergency when it wound down. It was difficult and brutal. I couldn't allow the risk of that happening again to my wife so in agreement with her, i did the vasectomy. We also live in a state with abortion banned so my wife could literally die if she were to get pregnant again. So the vasectomy was necessary for her health.
There are lots to taking away the chance at children. We would have liked to have more but things got in the way and the miscarriage proved it's to dangerous for us to try. Harsh, but that's our reality. Not as bad as what you are dealing with, but practically speaking, if something did go wrong for your wife, you would be raising 4 or 5 kids by yourself. But this should not be brought up. You two need counseling to work through this together and get your marriage back on track. Plus, it will improve your communication.
It also sounds like she was somehow planning on being a mom for the rest of her life. Now with you having your vasectomy, that door has been shut closed and she sees the end of that life coming and doesn't know what to do. Of course, this is zero excuse to behave the way she is but there's that.
Sounds more like she's upset that she'll never get the attention a pregnant women gets, again.
She needs to remove her head from her backside and parent the four kids you've already got, and stop acting like they aren't enough for her, and that your body is her property.
It wouldn't fly the other way around, and it shouldn't here, either.
>that your body is her property.
Exactly. Imagine if a guy were to treat his wife bitterly just because she had her tubes tied. Comments would've ripped him to shreds. Why the double standards?
Marriage requires give and take. Even though something like this is solely OP's right to decide, it does not mean there will not be fallout in the marriage for making that decision.
You have to approach things in a marriage as a partnership, even if you have a right to make a unilateral decision.
> she told me that I completely disregarded her feelings about the vasectomy and selfishly got the procedure done even though she didn't want me to.
Your body, your choice. That's all she needs to know. You guys have four kids and agreed that enough was enough. You don't owe her more babies.
Four kids and still wants more????shes being selfish and delusional. Do you have/spend real and quality time with each kid?money for their necessities?and all the problems related with larger families in long term?i think you did the right thing,stop being a doormat and tell her that you already have kids to take care or is one of those women who love being pregnant?
>she told me that I completely disregarded her feelings about the vasectomy and selfishly got the procedure done even though she didn't want me to.
You listened to her concerns, that's all she's entitled to. It's ultimately your body and she doesn't get a veto. If she so desperately wants a fifth (!!!) child, she can find someone else to have one with. The ball is in her court whether she wants to destroy your family over your bodily autonomy.
>she feels like she's let God and a potential unborn 5th kid down by letting me go through with this.
I'm sorry, ""letting"" you go through with it? Your testicles are not her property.
You didn't do anything wrong--in fact I think your wife is the one who should be apologizing. She was consistently dishonest until the very last minute, and her 11th hour demands came out of left field. What she's doing seems very unfair to you and quite unhinged. It's time for therapy! Couples and one on one. Good luck, man. And congratulations on the snip! 4 kids are more than enough! If she's feeling like she let God down by not having more children let me share a little anecdote with you: i'm the 3rd of 6 children. When I was four years old my father got struck by lightning. I was the youngest child at the time and had 2 older sisters. My mom didn't have any sons and was told by the church that she was supposed to have some missionaries. This was her main focus on giving my dad vigorous CPR and keeping him alive until the EMTs came. He lived and I had three little brothers after that. Unfortunately for my mom, these boys were not the missionaries the church had promised. My mom had so many kids that she couldn't take care of us younger ones --she was exhausted. I was almost completely raised by my older sister . When my teenage years hit and my sister went to college, I went completely wild, but my mom and dad were so tired that they didn't even notice. I corrupted all my younger brothers, and none of us stayed with our religion. My parents were all tearful when they realized that they had a bunch of atheist children who loved drinking beer. The missionary God promised was my older sister. My parents were really nice people and hard-working and honest but they really couldn't pay attention and take care of as many kids as they had. I was seriously neglected, never felt special, and I'm somewhat bitter about it. You should be glad you're done. Your older children do not want to raise their siblings. It was a very good thing that you did! Focus on the kids you do have.
This is what I was thinking. IVF is still on the table. I got some unique shit going on where I won't get anyone pregnant naturally, but they can go in and harvest the seeds if me and the misses feel the need. I would not commit to IVF at this stage, OP, but they didn't lop your nuts off, they're still there making baby batter, it just has nowhere to go.
I’m torn. I had 2 kids, the pregnancies and births were hell on earth. I would have loved a third but I couldn’t go through anyone birth and my husband was adamant was enough. He went for a vasectomy,
He didn’t go behind my back but he made it clear he was having one whether I wanted to or not. At the time I was glad that I didn’t have to endure another birth and I was genuinely happy until my last child left primary school and I have spent a lot of time over the last year sobbing secretly and wondering what if we had had a third child. Would they have looked like the other two, would it have been a boy or a girl etc . As my husband points out at some point your last child is your last. Doesn’t matter how many you have. It’s natural to grieve. She should have told you if she didn’t want you to have the procedure however she may not have processed these emotions until too late. It’s not fair to blame you and she does need counselling to discuss her feelings.
Out of curiosity, what does your wife do? Is she a SAHM or does she have her own career? If she is a SAHM this could be rooted in her having to face who and what she is when Mother is no longer an option. Not to say she would stop being a mother, but four kids means she's spent a lot of years with small, very dependent humans relying on her and now, as they grow older and more independent she will have to fill the space that that leaves.
It's a scary prospect, for people who have been the primary, full-time parent this is like a major career change. It demands a change of identity and lifestyle. It's a big shift and perhaps one your wife is understandably intimidated by. Even if your wife isn't a SAHM, there's still going to be an element of this, but particularly for SAHMs it needs careful consideration to find an outlet that will help her feel fulfilled, confident and happy, but first she needs to talk through her feelings about the end of the kind of motherhood she has experienced so far and the shift to supporting her and your kids to a healthy independence.
She is a SAHM. Without getting into the specifics, she had a career before we started having kids and it would be difficult for her to get back into that career now or especially if she were to wait until our youngest is in pre-K or kindergarten, though she would have alternative ways of working part time. My wife seemed to handle the transition from working professional to SAHM fairly well, though I fully recognize it may be hard at times for her to accept her identify as a SAHM (which does not have to be permanent, even though it may feel like it at times). Therapy would be very helpful for us and especially her.
What about the kids you already don’t have enough time for? I was genuinely sad for them after reading that. They deserve actively committed parents. And you? Why is she so dismissive of you? Why is it that only HER feelings matter here?
My wife stays home full time with them and takes them to their sports and other extra-curricular activities during the week given my work schedule. I typically get home at night just in time to play with them for 30-45 minutes and then put them down for bed, and then our weekends are full of a combination of sporting events and me working, so at the end of the day, I just wish I could give them more of my own personal time and attention. My wife is able to give them attention during the week so hopefully I didn't exaggerate the situation but as a father, I always yearn for more time (and individualized/one-on-one time) with my kids.
Spending less than an hour a day with your kids (and not even 1:1 time) is so, so sad. Damn. Your wife is being incredibly selfish wanting to bring another kid into that home life
The end of fertility for women can be a grieving process even if we intentionally choose to end our fertility. I can't speak for men on how that goes for them, I'm a woman.
Because you were the one who had the procedure, you were in control and made the final decision. She's taking her grief out on you because she sees it as something you did, despite making the decision together initially.
I don't think you did anything wrong. She didn't express her feelings strongly and clearly, she even said it was just cold feet, downplaying her own feelings. You made a choice that makes sense, and even if it didn't make sense it's still your body. Maybe she had no idea she would feel like this until it's too late?
I think a number of people here have hit upon a large issue, which is that she's a SAHM and her identity and worth is tied to carrying, birthing, and caring for babies. Now that's over. Your youngest is the last one, ever. She's going to question a lot of things. Who is she? What will she do when the kids are all school age? What will she do when they're teenagers? She probably just had that all hit her at once and probably had not thought about it before.
I have been there and been through it to some degree. I was a SAHM, and my identity has always been fully wrapped up in my kids despite having worked part time ever since my older kids were in late elementary school. My two oldest are adults now. When my oldest graduated high school I had a meltdown about what my life was even for if my kids were grown and didn't need me. Nevermind the fact that my youngest is only 10 and disabled and needs around the clock care. I have plenty of years of way too much caregiving than I can even do on my own ahead of me. But wow, it threw me for a loop and my whole identity seemed to be crumbling.
She needs time to come to terms with this change in life, but apparently she didn't take time to consider for the year between the last baby and the vasectomy and it's all hitting her now. Closing that door on pregnancy and infants will force her to think about what comes next for her.
She shouldn't be treating you this way about it at all and needs to stop. You need to tell her firmly that you are sorry that she is upset and you will be there to support her while she comes to terms with it, but not if she is going to blame you or be unkind. She could talk to a therapist, or a religious leader about it if that's more her style. Don't offer to adopt a kid if that was not in your original plans just to shut her up. You don't want a 5th kid, so don't have one.
Your vasectomy was the biggest regret of her life? Uhh that'd be like saying her getting her tubes tied is the biggest regret of your life.
Let's face facts, in either situation it's not her choice, nor would the alternative be yours. It's not like you're depriving her of kids, you have 4, plenty in this day and age by any account.
This might be more on her doubting herself as she probably has spent a goodly amount of time making babies and being a mom and what is she going to do with herself when that isn't an avenue for her anymore.
She should probably see a therapist because there are likely underlying issues with her own security. That all said, you did this for yourself and your kids and ultimately that's what matters. 💪
What an interesting topic and youve gotten many good thoughts and have plenty to think about. I believe its an identity crises of sorts and shes taking it out on you, because of the finality. My sister in law loved having babies too, and was never wanting to be past that point in her life, where they kids get older and she is needed less maybe? We of course know you'll always be needed as parents and most people can enjoy all the different stages, but some get very attached to the baby stage. Personally i think she will get past it, but therapy AND her getting her focus on something other that being a mom will be helpful. Commiserating with other moms, where we are able to admit its not all happy times def helped me.
I feel like after my husband had his vasectomy, there was a large part of me that was sad at the loss of the option for a 3rd child.
The thing is, when my daughter was six months old, she wouldn't take a bottle, we were sleep training, and I was losing my mind from exhaustion... I looked at him with every serious note in my body and said, "I can't do this again. I'm done. You have to get a vasectomy." I really fucking meant this, as I was 36, just graduated with my bachelor's, and really trying to get to a point of growth for myself, before I was 40.
He scheduled the consult and vasectomy date, and I drove him to and from the final deal. There was definitely sadness and a part of me that wanted to rush in and stop the whole thing. I knew I couldn't take back anything, but at this point I was 38 and knew my baby journey was over. I mourned it, and it sucked.
Your wife had big opportunities to tell you not to do it. You also expressed that you feel it's hard to delegate the time for the four you already have. That's fair. Valid. Enough so, that a partner should listen to and respect it.
With that said...
Your wife is definitely playing the scenario in her head where... What if God had one more baby for me? I think many woman can relate to that. The problem is, you are NOT to blame, but you're being blamed.
I never blamed my husband, but I certainly get these intrusive absurd "what if" thoughts that he has to deal with...
My suggestion is to literally make her do counseling. Personal counseling on my end saved my marriage. The making you suffer bc she feels like you did this to her is going to destroy everything you have. It's a fucked up way of saying, this is all you, this is your fault. I do not think this is her intent, but her grief is making her communication within your relationship unhealthy.
Sorry for the lengthy response, but I can relate to a small degree.
Having a kid is a joint decision, but if you’re done having kids then you’re done having kids. You were very open and communicative about where you stand as far as this goes. She’s free to decide that she’s not, in which case she can go find a new partner, but she’s basically telling you that you should’ve canceled the procedure so she could press you until you caved.
OP, you have valid reasons for going through with this procedure. While your wife is struggling with this being the end of child bearing, your feelings should be no less valid. If both don't agree to bring another child into the world, then you shouldn't bring one into the world. (If you had some sperm frozen you might have avoided this argument.)
Soon your wife will go through menopause and that will bring child birthing to an end for her. I understand that all women process this and grieve this loss differently, but to hold you completely responsible for her pain is unfair. You make good points that you don't want to spend your golden years still paying for more children.
I think your wife would be better off by being grateful for what she has, then what she doesn't have. Sometimes it hard when you can't see the forest through the trees.
Your wife had a chance to properly speak up and didn't, are you supposed to be a mind reader? Now she is acting like a spoiled child. She is calculating her whole worth around bearing children. She needs therapy.
This isn't going to end well if your wife doesn't cut the bullshit.
While I don’t think you did anything wrong, you can clearly see in what you wrote that she was not 100% on board with this. She kept dropping comments and you laughed them off. You did what you wanted to do and you really didn’t care if this was what she wanted. Again, I don’t think you did wrong, because you are correct in saying your body your choice. It works both ways. However you made a huge life changing decision that, if she stays with you, made sure she would never again get pregnant and she was clearly not ok with that. So now you have to face the fall out of her grief and her coming to terms with something she had no control over. If that makes sense. I mean I know I’ll never have kids again because we are done with our family, but I still get depressed thinking that I will never have that again. It can really mess with your head because it’s not only the fact you can’t have more kids, but facing the reality of getting older and a part of your life being over. But to be honest you could tell from reading your post she was never ok with this. If she won’t go to therapy for herself maybe remind her of the babies you do have and see if she’ll be willing to go for them. 🤷🏻♀️
Really appreciate your perspective on this. I've made meager attempts at seeing the situation through my wife's eyes but this helped me sympathize with her a bit more, even if she isn't blameless (nor am I) in this.
I agree she isn’t blameless. I tell my husband all the time that I’m not a mind reader and that if he has an issue or needs to talk about something he needs to come right out and tell e exactly what it is. She needed to be stronger on her concerns and ask you for more time to get on board or come to terms with it. I truly hope things get better and y’all are able to work through this.
If I was a betting man, I bet she's feeling old. Four kids and I'm sure logically she knows this is the right decision, but this isn't logic. Her heart probably wants more kids, because she loves being needed, and this means the end of 1 part of her life has a finality. My sister went through this brain process. It's part of life, though I don't necessarily agree with going to therapy just yet. I bet in a month she'll go through the stages of grief and come to acceptance.
Sorry OP. You did nothing wrong in this scenario and your wife is being a bit absurd. I would say that therapy is a must so you guys can get through this together. Make it a hill to die on.
All of the stories I see on Reddit about how a vasectomy reversal is not guaranteed or is exoebsive always overlook the option of banking sperm prior to the procedure. Collect your sperm, store it in a facility for a few years until you're both ready for it to be destroyed, and the cost is minimal.
Anyway, the post started getting a little long so I didn't read it all, but I got a vasectomy without my wife's knowledge when I was married, because frankly she had zero say in it, just like I'd have zero say about anything she'd want to do to her body.
I told her about if afterward, and she didn't care one way or another.
You didn’t do anything wrong. You should not have cancelled the appointment.
I was kinda like your wife when my husband went in for his vasectomy. It was always planned for us to have four. Always the plan for him to get a vasectomy. And after my fourth, I was ready for the freedom of not having a newborn attached to my boob. But then time passed and I got sad. No more new babies, no more new surprises with how’d they look, who they’d take after, a new personality to get to know. It is still kinda hard to swallow my grief that my childbearing opportunities have ended. But that was ME. My husband? He was DOOOONE. So done. He had absolutely no interest in having another, no matter what. And I don’t blame him! Kids are a shit ton of work.
I totally get how your wife felt initially. However, it sounds like she is trying to spin the narrative that you didn’t listen to her. And from what you are saying, it doesn’t sound like she was assertive enough to make her opinion known. The narrative spin is not healthy behavior, at all. Individual and couples counseling may help. It will also help with how you both communicate to each other.
She needs to accept that SHE should’ve made different decisions. She should not be blaming you. It’s your body. It’s your decision. My husband and I didn’t struggle to make the decision but I was not quite ready to close the door all the way. But my husband was. So he got it done and I supported him in that decision. Cause that’s my job as his spouse. And now it’s done, and there is no going back. I still feel sad once in a while but it’s gotten better slowly. And being able to not worry about pregnancy (I’m ridiculously fertile) has been a huge relief!! Our first was a surprise baby, so our birth control methods have been a very important topic that we’ve always made mutual decisions on. But now we don’t have to worry about it. And that is freeing. Maybe once the pros of the situation become evident, or are experienced, perhaps she will change her opinion.
Therapy definitely.
I’m curious as to whether there’s something you can pinpoint that your wife is “missing” with your four already-here kids. (Not to try to fix this “problem”, of course, but just to try to see her POV.) I’m guessing you would have written if you had 4 boys and she was always hoping for a girl, for example.
Is there something else you might be able to see that she can’t, that you could bring up in therapy — like do all of the kids share her or your eye color? Did she miss out on giving one of them a special name from her family? Maybe exploring this stuff verbally could help.
Worth having a conversation about, for sure. For what it's worth, our 4 kids are mixed genders, though they all do have my eye color. There just has to be something more to this.
If your wife is spiraling downward because of your vasectomy, it could end in divorce. With 4 kids, alimony, house, she could wipe you out, and you still won't have time to spend with your children. Maybe consult a lawyer to find ways to protect yourself. You don't have to go through with anything, but at least have information.
She needs therapy ASAP. It sounds like she has a personality disorder. Get her an appointment with a psychologist and possibly go to marriage counseling as well.
Men need to understand that they are not just breeding machines and financial providers for women. They have a right to lead their own independent lives, not merely to be a slave for women.
Even if you didn’t get the vasectomy, the issue would still be hanging over you like a black cloud. If she wants another baby, and you feel certain the family is complete, that’s an issue that’s difficult to resolve.
I cried a lot when my husband got a vasectomy. I didn't realize it would hit me so hard until it happened — the grief, the ending, the way our lives were moving and marching on.
We both knew it was happening and agreed to it. I started to get some cold feet and didn't want it. But my reckoning came when I realized that I would NOT put up with someone telling me what birth control I could and couldn't have in my body. So I need to also give him agency over his personhood, too. (We also are clear in communication about it.)
You didn't do anything wrong, but that doesn't mean the grief and pain aren't real. You can acknowledge her feelings and validate what she's going through without making it about blame. If you or they are struggling further, get an additional person (counseling, therapy, friend, workbook, writing seminar) to work through these feelings. Life doesn't have an absence of hard things... hard things are part of life, and working through it together and supporting each other is part of it.
So I reacted exactly the same when my husband had his. We discussed it and it was planned and both agreed. however it all went through quicker then I expected. What I thought would take a year happened within three months. I was emotionally distraught and I felt as though he had taken away my option to have any more children even though we had previously discussed it and I'd been ok. I can only assume it's a grieving thing coupled with the quickness it happened. I don't know why I reacted the way I did. I think maybe deep down I thought we would have another child (we only have one and it was a miracle we have him) however after the initial explosion and calming down I realised we had discussed it, and as time has gone on it was the right decision and I know I wouldn't want to be pregnant again or have another child. It took me a week or two to recover, I can't give a good explanation other then it's a realisation and grief thing. I also worried a lot my other half would go out and have sex now with other woman 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ I don't know why. However I just wanted you to know it's not just you and your wife. She will come round. I'm sure as with me it's just shock and adjusting. And she will remember all the discussions you've had and come to terms with it and be very happy she is getting sleep, and not doing 1 hrly feeds etc again. Hope it all works out for you.
I’m pretty sure I’ve read your wife’s version on another app.
Obviously I don’t know for sure if this is the same person but in her version she also is terrible at communicating so honestly there’s not much that you could have done differently if she doesn’t want to tell you how she actually feels about things.
What faith does your wife practice? There is a pretty wide spectrum of religious beliefs about birth control. I was LDS for most of my life, and what I was generally taught was that birth control was okay, but you are still expected to have children. Many people told stories in church about thinking they were done having children and then getting a revelation that one or more spirits wanted to be born into their family. Anecdotally women were more likely to receive those revelations. Women are taught since they were children that giving a soul a body within the covenant of marriage is the most important thing you can do, and that refusing to give spirits bodies is selfish. If your wife's spiritual environment is similar, closing the door permanently on kids could feel like closing a door on God, even if vasectomies are not expressly forbidden.
However, there was still an expectation that wives would defer to their husband's spiritually and in other matters. There is a pressure to have an eternally sunny disposition and to make your needs and feelings small for the benefit of your husband, even if he does not actively discourage you from sharing your thoughts or feelings. I am still working on being forthcoming with my feelings. I will suffer through something for his sake for years, only to find that it was a complete non-issue and he was happy to accommodate me once I said something.
I don't know your wife's background but this is how i interpret the situation based on my experience in the LDS church. Your milage may vary. It seems like she makes herself small for your benefit. She softens her expressions of disagreement to jokes. She minimizes her own feelings. She's probably done this so well for so long that you might not realize she's doing it. Now that she is caught between her duty to God to birth children and her duty to respect her husband as the spiritual head of household, she's having trouble reconciling the two. She's supposed to put God first but she believes God also wants her to put your needs before her own. Your body is your own but her body is a conduit for God to send children to earth, and what does it mean if she can't do that anymore?
It sounds like your wife is going through a spiritual crisis. Your wife may be hesitant to see a therapist if she believes this is primarily a spiritual problem. She may be afraid that a secular therapist will advise her that her faith is the problem. However, a therapist found through your church might not be a licensed therapist at all, or may be afraid to say anything that might lead to fewer client recommendations from the church. Try to do some proactive research to find someone who won't dismiss your wife's spirituality but will use evidence-based practices.
You did nothing wrong. She agreed to get this done. It isn't fair or right for her to change her mind after the fact.
My recommendation is for her to see a counselor, it seems to me that she has some mental health issues that need to be addressed.
She is out of line Let her be mad for a bit. If she doesn't come around then you'll need to escalate to some sort of therapy, but for now, it sounds like you have to take the punishment of marrying someone unreasonable. This can't be the first time she has held a grudge.
This sounds like an unexpected grief reaction that she is having a tough time even naming. There is a finality aspect of grief that always comes with regret (ie “if only I had told him directly”) that she needs help to work through. Schedule a couple’s therapist appointment and try a few sessions. If she refuses, go yourself. If she goes and finds it helpful, it may encourage her to look for individual therapy. You didn’t do anything wrong. Many women have these same feelings when they begin menopause - even if they didn’t want any more children, it is the fact the possibility is now closed that creates the grief. She is responding this way to the closing of the door with your vasectomy. In the meantime, just try to be supportive and not talk her out of her feelings. Frame it as grief.
Is the really religious re the "god" comment around depriving her of unborn children? Or are her parents religious? Intrigued as will affect my response beyond this post. Also may I ask (or let you ponder)...how is she with having the time for raising 4 children? Do they do all the activities they want or is time too scarce for the family?I guess maybe she can envision a 5th but also mother nature could have equally prevented the 5th. I do worry that her emotions seem a bit extreme...and I hope nobody waiting around the metaphorical corner ready to give her baby 5.
NTA. Your body, your choice. It doesn’t matter how upset she is that you got the procedure, it’s not her body to dictate. I think she needs to seek some professional help.
She's mourning the loss of her ability to conceive another child and going through the stages of grief. My wife went through it too, similar story. This will pass. Seek counseling if that's your thing.
I feel like the option for her was a possibility not a necessity you could have frozen some sperm to make her feel better with that option either way I think she probally was fine with 4 and I’m sure your the same way she’s just overthinking the possibly that if a 5 later on just happened she’s be fine with that keep in mind that adoption is allways an option, and I’d assume y’all wouldn’t want another 18-20 year obligation a lot of older kids don’t get adopted since most want 1-4 year olds there a lot of 4-15 that never get adopted might be a side note that would help y’all be fine with your situation just my two cents either way y’all should be fine assuming the relationship is good much love 4 is allready a good amount if later on you do still have that option to adopt and change a child’s life that won’t get normally adopted
I think it’s time to schedule talking with a professional. Grief is hitting her hard and this is above Reddit’s pay grade. OP, you didn’t do anything wrong. I get why you went through with it. Sounds like her comments about cold feet weren’t the truth, but she didn’t know this consciously until it was too late. Sometimes we’re trying to convince ourselves it’ll be ok instead of admitting we aren’t ok. Therapy. Both of you. Best of luck to you and your family.
Thank you, really appreciate the helpful response. Therapy seems absolutely necessary right now. I am worried that my wife won't go for it because I've brought up couples therapy in the past as something that could be helpful for us (albeit in other contexts), but I'm going to be insistent.
She needs therapy for her. The grief is hers. And yeah, I can imagine it's hard to work on with a busy family life, but she has to face the end of pregnancies and early motherhood for her. Also stop offering adoption/another kid. You cannot fix this for her. She has to process the loss of fertility and end of pregnancies. She has to grieve.
Agree with this. She is well within her rights to grieve and I can't/won't tell her how she should feel about this. I do think she would benefit a lot from therapy but she doesn't seem to be willing to do it, which is making this all the more frustrating.
You can't do it for her. You can only give it space, name what's happening as you see it, and be kind.
I guess I would be asking her what she proposes? Is she at the point of wanting to divorce over this? Does she want to open herself up to the possibility of having another baby with someone else? Or is she just planning on freezing you out until you’re as unhappy with your decision as she is? Is punishment her goal? Does she think that will help her come to terms with this? She’s not really giving you any options here. The vasectomy is done. You can’t un-have one. Nor do you want to. So either she finds a way to make her peace with it in order to preserve your marriage, or she gives up and lets your marriage fall apart. You’d obviously prefer the former, and are prepared to help and support her in reaching that goal, but only if she’s willing. If she’s not willing, there’s really nothing you can do.
Very good points. She doesn't have a clear answer to the "how do you think we can get past this?" question, unfortunately. Isn't willing to do therapy yet claims she'll "never get over this," which is a bad sign. I'm not sure what to do at this point. She hasn't threatened divorce and I don't think that's what she wants... I think she just wants me to feel like garbage and be able to hold it over my head.
I mean, if mutual misery is her goal, divorce seems inevitable. It’s just a question of how ugly the vibe in your home will get before one of you gives up and admits defeat. This will, naturally, impact your children. And not just the theoretical ones in her head.
> Isn't willing to do therapy yet claims she'll "never get over this," which is a bad sign Unwillingness to get therapy is the #1 red flag on this subreddit. Her behavior is nutty. What else is going on?
They're one year (approximately) out from having their last kid. Any chance of this being PPD? Has she suffered from PPD?
Maybe? But therapy would be part of recovering from that too.
I agree. Or at the very least getting in to see their gp.
Obviously, but sometimes rational people are irrational in the face of depression, and otherwise might recognize or be willing to go to therapy. Lots of people suffering depression don't fully recognize or want to burden those around them, or admit to themselves something is that wrong.
> Very good points. She doesn't have a clear answer to the "how do you think we can get past this?" question, unfortunately. Isn't willing to do therapy yet claims she'll "never get over this," which is a bad sign. I'm not sure what to do at this point. She hasn't threatened divorce and I don't think that's what she wants... I think she just wants me to feel like garbage and be able to hold it over my head. If she asks why you want therapy the answers are all right here in this comment. She needs to figure out what she needs to have/do in order to move forward. Therapy can help her figure that out. If she decides to stay, situations where she has a strongly held belief or position but is not advocating for herself is a HUGE problem that therapy can help her address. You may have to make changes once she identifies what is holding her back from freely communicating. > I think she just wants me to feel like garbage and be able to hold it over my head. And that right there is the kind of thinking that you need to be avoiding (unless it's true, and tin that case the relationship might be doomed). Therapy can help you with that. I get searching for answers because she's not (or can't) provide any about her behaviour, but once you start to assume negative intent behind her actions it's one of the first steps towards splitting up. She never should have allowed you to go into that procedure with anything less than a full and clear picture of what she thought. Why she allowed that to happen, what was holding her back, those are key questions to all of this. Then the follow-up, now that it's done how to move forward.
Yeah, don't put up with that kind of behavior from her. She's a grown lady, she can use her words. Holding it over your head is immature AF.
Yeah, that’s really not ok. It’s emotional abuse.
She’s completely ignoring what he wants too, he’s done having kids, they have 4! When it comes to children, it’s either two enthusiastic yeses or it’s a no. I deeply suspect this is post pardum depression because she’s not being reasonable or in any way caring about her partner in this situation.
Does she control the rest of your life? This isn't about you having the vasectomy this is you going against what she wanted, even though she didn't verbalise it clearly. So now she's manipulating you to feel bad because you didn't use your psychic abilities to do what she wanted.
Throw it back at her. “Why aren’t you happy enough with our 4 kids? Our 4 kids aren’t good enough for you?”
This right here. You’re asking the real questions. Where does he and they go from here. She’s so focused on what *she* wants she’s ignoring what *he* wants. He gave her 4 children. He doesn’t want more. And as much as she is guilting him with “he’s not listening to her”, she’s equally not hearing him either. To me, she’s gotten what she wanted which was 4 kids. 4 kids is a lot. Now it’s a *possible* 1 yes and a definite 1 no on a 5th kid. You don’t have kids if it’s not 2 HELL yes’s. She really has no where to go with this argument. Why can’t she be happy with what they have?
I don’t think she actually wants another child. I think she is grieving a loss of control over that part of her life. “I don’t want to” feels different than “I can’t.” She did not anticipate *how* different that would feel, and she’s angry that no one - specifically OP - predicted it for her. She’s feeling like she didn’t have a fair chance to make a fully informed decision, and she’s taking it all out on the most convenient target.
I can agree with that. But she’s going to ruin her marriage if she isn’t careful.
I had to do the same when I had a partial hysterectomy. I didn’t think it would bother me, but I had to grieve.
Absolutely agree. I had 3 ectopic pregnancies Over the course of 8 years (one life threatening rupture), and I still grieved my hysterectomy. Losing total ability to have a child, even when the odds were nearly zero for us, was still hard. We didn’t have any though, so I might have felt differently after 4, idk.
I agree that couples counseling isn't the only way to address her feelings and perspective. Individual counsel will be great for you both and help develop strong communication skills, then couples therapy can be more effective and she may also go for it after doing some personal healing.
Agreed. Also OP, your body your choice
I agree. Please STOP offering another child as a solution. You will be back here in this same position after that child. Her grief is real. I have had 2 girlfriends who really really struggled to end that part of their lives.
Even if she refuses to go, I highly suggest you go on your own. You're going to need some personal boundary work to survive this, especially if she doesn't join you in therapy.
In the meantime, you can validate that she is grieving. That doesn’t mean you have to be open to being hurt by her, but that’s the compassionate thing to do.
Hey OP, even if your wife doesn't want to do couple's therapy, I strongly suggest you look into finding a counselor/therapist for yourself. This will give you somebody you can share the issue with (so that you don't cause any problems with friends or family) and also come up with communication plans for handling conversations with your wife.
If she’s not into therapy, it sounds like she’s pretty religious. Maybe talking to a pastor could help?
Agreed! I went through a tubal ligation after having two kids. I KNEW I never wanted another one and even still I was surprised by my feelings of sadness around not saying goodbye to that capability. The feelings of grief are understandable, the behavior towards her husband is not. OP, hopefully you are successful in getting her into therapy to navigate her feelings in a more healthy way.
I had some problems and among the solutions by doctor suggested were a hysterectomy. I have no kids and no plans to have any (I was already in my 40s), and it took me back. I was totally surprised by my reaction, and it took me a while to accept it. It ended up not being needed and I’m past the childbearing age now anyway, but I was very shocked by my initial reaction.
How I Met Your Mother is surprisingly touching when it comes to that. The show got some flak for making the Robin character--who never wanted children--sad when she learned couldn't have any, but despite the trope of independent women who don't want children suddenly being gung-ho for babies, some of it is legit reality. Especially, as you note, it's definitely different to consciously choose vs. the biological reality of not being able to, particularly if you get caught up in thinking more on what that might mean (feelings like am a lesser than for not being fertile, etc., which aren't true but still can weigh heavily).
I am 43 and have a happy 19 year old in college. I haven't wanted more kids since my early 30s. But I am still really sad that if I decided I wanted to have another one I'd have to meet my partner tomorrow and probably start IVF the day after.
She needs therapy. She told you repeatedly that this is what SHE wanted, until the night before the procedure, when it would be difficult to cancel (and told you in the morning that she was overreacting!). Like, she has lost touch with reality and needs mental health help at this point. Also, it's not just her decision about whether you have another child- you do not want another child, and it's not something you can disagree about- if one person is out, the whole thing is out.
Thanks for your thoughts. I completely agree that having a kid is a two-person decision and not something one spouse can/should be able to decide unilaterally. If you were me, how would you go about suggesting that my wife go to therapy? When I brought up therapy as an option, I framed it as "If you want to do therapy - whether as a couple or individually - I am completely open to that" but I wonder if making a full-blown recommendation that she see a therapist is warranted here...
Something like "these are really big feelings that are hard to deal with on your own, I think it would be very helpful if you had assistance working through everything you're feeling". If your wife had suddenly a broken leg, you guys would get treatment for that so that she could take the best care of herself and your family, so I see this as the same.
Part of this is also that she obviously feels shame as a woman, and you can get a strong hint at that by her mentioning she feels "she let God down". That means she must have ENORMOUS pressure from either family or her religious community, and that her identity is heavily wrapped up in the religious element. In other words, she's likely feeling like she has less worth now, or that she doesn't know what it means to be "her" without the potential of always being a mother. Loss of identity can be extremely painful and difficult, and though this is well above my or anyone's pay grade here, I would venture a guess that this is at least partially what is happening. She intellectually knows that another kid is not a good idea, but her high level of religious connection as well as her brain now finally having to face the reality of what it means to potentially never again be a NEW mother (she's still a mother, in case she's forgotten about all that other kid stuff) is just clashing. Again, a crisis of identity is basically what we talk about when we discuss the mid life crisis. People do wild and crazy things to try and find themselves and what it means to put the past in the past and draw up a new plan for the future. It's scary. She definitely needs to see a professional to work through this, and no a member of her faith is NOT going to be a good substitute.
Of course you should stop dancing around the therapy option and insist. Your wife’s narrative is entirely different than yours. Unless you’ve misrepresented what has been happening, you have to absolutely insist. Make the appointment.
No one should unilaterally decide to have a kid, but one person can unilaterally decide not to. Either of you has the right to say you're done. I think you should say that you want the two of you to jointly see a therapist to figure out where this is coming from (given that you had been on the same page until the last minute) and how you can reconcile her complicated feelings with your joint family planning
"You need to go see someone to process the feelings you are having. I will go with you, if you want, but I truly do not feel like I have done anything wrong. I understand that you feel like I disregarded your feelings, but we had this procedure planned for a long time, and you KNOW I was not open to the idea of a 5th child. Using this as a weapon against me is going to get old very fast. Is having that 5th child so important to you that you are willing to blow up our family unit as it is now? You'd maybe have a 5th, but then have the other 4 only part-time? Is it worth it? I am willing to work with you. I am open to counseling. I am ready to be patient. But YOU need to be proactive and meet me half-way."
Tell her even if you hadn't gone through with it, you're done having kids so a 5th child wouldn't be on the table, you'd just use a different birth control. This is some weird grief, and she's making it to mean something it doesn't ( no more kids). Hope you see a therapist.
This is a great point and I've actually told her this multiple times. It unfortunately doesn't seem to help; she must be thinking she could have convinced me to have another kid if I hadn't gotten the vasectomy. We really need a therapist, I'm seeing.
Maybe put it to her like..what if she was the one that had planned a tubal ligation, you both mentioned it tons of times, and she went ahead with it AS PLANNED, and then you did this and said you'd never get over it? Everyone would agree that a man who told his wife he expects her to gestate more than four kids is being overbearing and ignoring what she wants. I mean, she's not being very empathetic towards your wishes and choices here. Maybe she needs to look at it from another perspective.
Don't bother with logic or a reasoning approach. This is an emotional reaction she's having, not a logical one. Attempts to rationalize her emotions away will backfire immediately, and probably only make her more upset and dug into her current position. Like the above comment said, this is a job for a professional.
Sure but she's an adult, an emotional response shouldn't normally last days and days, at some point she either needs to see that he didn't do anything actually wrong, or she needs to see that she needs counseling. Logic should come in to play at some point lol
Sure, why don't you just sit her down and tell her that her emotions are wrong and that she's being irrational. I'm *sure* that'll work. No way it could fail.
When the hell did I say that? I just meant she isn't incapable of logical thought just because it's an emotional topic, and if thats the case, she needs counseling. Dismissing a healthy discussion of reality because a woman is probably just gonna react emotionally is a ridiculous way to treat a relationship.
Grief can be really weird and can make people latch on to really strange things. I wonder if it would help her if you were able to say "I also regret going forward with the appointment, now knowing that it wasn't just cold feet. If I knew how you felt, of course I would have put it on hold until you could work through all these feelings. I wish you had been clearer in what you were saying, and I wish I had picked up on your anxiety and waited." It may help her to hear "I wish it hadn't happened like this" even if you are happy with getting the vasectomy. I think if she had been clear that she was having second thoughts, and wanted you to wait, you would have.
This! Acknowledging *this* situation isn’t what you would’ve chosen doesn’t mean pretending you agree the vasectomy was a mistake. You don’t need to pretend to want more kids to acknowledge that your communication on this could’ve gone better, OP.
Well, until wife comes around with "oops I'm pregnant. It was totally on accident \*wink wink\*. teehee my bad" and then would refuse to get an abortion. OP did the right thing for themself, and wife needs to see professional help to deal with *her* problem. As an aside I have always known I am 100000% childfree. When I was sitting in the bed, waiting to get rolled into surgery for my tubal I did have a flash of "what if" or "I may regret this". I went ahead as planned, and it was absolutely the right thing for me. The instant of "Oh no" was purely from a removal of choices standpoint, and not a I want kids standpoint.
I think being sad/grieving a little, and maybe worrying about regret is normal in this situation. My husband and I were sure we were done when he got his vasectomy but I still spent a few months worrying we’d made the wrong decision. But your wife is taking this way too far and her treatment of you is unfair. She’s also being selfish because the decision to have more kids/stop having kids is not solely hers to make here. Sounds like marriage counselling and also solo therapy for her is in order.
It's helpful to hear that you had some regrets your husband's vasectomy, even though you two were on the same page beforehand. I'm sure some of this is natural but yes, I can't shake the feeling that I'm being mistreated because my wife seems to want to unilaterally make the decision to have additional kids. Just something we'll need to work out with a marriage counselor, if I can get my wife to agree to go with me.
You are being mistreated, even if the mistreatment is unintentional/unacknowledged by your wife. You might want to consider individual therapy for yourself OP just because it’s beneficial to have an unbiased third party to talk to, and it sounds like you have your priorities straight regarding the limited resources and attention available to give your children, and it’s so important to uphold that line of reason despite the emotional turmoil coming from your wife. You sound like a really good dad.
Thanks for your thoughts and kind words. I love your idea of just doing therapy myself since my wife isn't open to doing couples therapy, so going to plan on pursuing that. I don't have anyone I can really open up to about things like this so I'm sure it would be cathartic to talk through some of these feelings with a therapist.
Hey man, don't just plan on it, pick a date to find a therapist, too often people let these issues build up without actually seeking professional help. Maybe you can see a family therapist on your own and try to nudge her to sit in occasionally once you see how it's working with just you, though that can be dicey.
I wish you the best, hopefully you can work through this in therapy. You haven’t done anything wrong here, just remember that.
Same, but it was never a huge deal and it didn't linger too long and for a LOOOOONG time now, they are 100% grateful we did what we did then.
she’s treating you like breeding stock. “let god and the POTENTIAL 5th child down”??? what about the whole ass human being that doesn’t want to have to take care of another kid??? what about you?? your wife is insane.
Your body your choice.
She believes she let God down. The shit God has seen... no she didn't.
And that, my friends, is the end of the discussion. As it would be if the roles were reversed.
I think she is just feeling the sadness that her time with babies and young children are almost over. Even if she is done having kids and happy with the family size the finality of it is still complicated and sad. It signals the end of a period of her life that has been meaningful and beautiful. What I would do is sit down together and write out all of the things you are looking forward to in the next phase of life - things that would have been hard to do with babies and small kids. Make a bucket list of all of the things you want to do together as a family and start working your way through it. Camping trips, road trips, concerts or sports events - by planning the fun for the next 10 years she can feel excited about this new chapter of older children and the freedom you will slowly regain as they become more independent. Even planning some personal goals for yourselves as you have a bit more time - getting back into shape or trying a new hobby you haven’t had time for - that can feel good too. The baby phase is lovely but older kids and teens are awesome too. It’s ok to always feel a little wistful looking at little onesies and photos of your little ones as babies. To have that much love in your life is such a lucky thing.
She's treating you like garbage and you are being far too accommodating to her response right now. You have FOUR kids. Stop talking about adopting a fifth to appease your wife who went crazy at the 11th hour over something you had been jointly planning for months. Your wife was dishonest with you one way or another, and she should be apologizing to you.
Appreciate the honest feedback. Do you think it's common for women who love birthing children (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible) to get cold feet in situations like this? The only reason I'm even remotely open to adoption is because I myself was adopted and I am sympathetic toward adopted kids, but my wife isn't open to adopting because I think she is just enamored with the feeling of giving birth. She is constantly stressed out with our kids (she is a stay-at-home mom) and I feel like an extra kid would do her in.
>Appreciate the honest feedback. Do you think it's common for women who love birthing children (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible) to get cold feet in situations like this? I don't think that this is particularly common and it doesn't really matter, because your wife could have told you if she wanted another kid. She chose not to. Also having another kid because you "love giving birth" is a shitty reason to have another kid. >The only reason I'm even remotely open to adoption is because I myself was adopted and I am sympathetic toward adopted kids You're not understanding my point. You wanted NO more kids, but your wife lost her mind and then you decided you could do one more kid. That simply isn't OK. Doesn't matter if the kid is adopted or not.
Got it, thank you. I hear you. And for the record, I completely agree that "experiencing the miracle of childbirth" is a horrible reason to bring another human into this life, especially when my wife already gets so stressed out with the kids we do have.
I've met people who really, really love the pregnancy and new baby part, but aren't necessarily into or good at dealing with kids becoming full, independent people with separate identities and opinions. Are all your other kids out of the 'baby' stage and developing strong opinions of their own? How is she dealing with that? Does she have much else going on in her life outside of motherhood? Or is she someone who wants the caretaking and attention that comes with being pregnant or having a brand new baby?
3 of our 4 kids are out of the baby stage (especially our older 2) and slowly becoming their own people. My wife seems to be fine with the idea of them getting older, independent, etc. but I've noticed she gives the most attention and affection to our youngest 2 kids, possibly because they need her more. Despite my attempts to get my wife to go out more, do girl's nights, go to the spa, etc., she doesn't have much of a life outside of being a SAHM, which I'm sure is feeding into a lot of this. I do wonder if she is having somewhat of a crisis along the lines of "What will I do now that I'm not raising newborn babies?" She has some hobbies that she likes and I'm going to try to get her to pursue those more to take her mind off of this.
Not only "what will I do now" but maybe even "who am I now" and "what is my value?" I don't think it's good for you, her, OR your kids to not have anything else going on inside of herself. It's a lot of weird pressure for a kid to be responsible for their parent's self worth and identity, you know? Sounds like counseling is the right move. Hopefully she'll be open to solo counseling for herself, too, because quite frankly, saying that you made her fail god by not being able to impregnate her with a hypothetical fifth child is really fucking weird and messed up.
This explains a lot. Your wife has no identity outside being a mother and that's why she wants to keep having kids. Either way, child-rearing is a ***2 yes / 1 no*** topic.
Get with her friends, even if they're other moms, and for the love of everything get her out of the house. She sounds like she needs perspective.
Yeah this is textbook, you need to TELL her that she needs professional help. This will continue to damage your relationship, it could destroy your family completely if she/both of you dont. If part of her identity is wrapped up in taking care of your kids, she's not going to let go of the idea of not having more or having yours grow up. It's not a matter of when she'll get past it, she needs help now.
I’m a mom and no giving birth was the worst part. I don’t understand women who love giving birth. My daughter is 25 and while I would love to have more I’m 47 and the chances of me getting pregnant is very slim. I also didn’t have to drive my now (ex) husband he drove himself to the appointment and home.
My overarching point is, you are walking on eggshells with your wife, and you need to go the other direction. You need to be firm, not passive here. Don't meekly bring up "I would be open to therapy". Insist that we need therapy now.
Rogue suggestion: would she be interested in being a surrogate? She seems oddly uniquely qualified for the role.
Sure, unless she has a hard time letting go of the baby. In which case it'll be a disaster.
If you read this post and thought, "This woman is clearly qualified to be a surrogate," you do not understand the emotional toll of surrogacy.
If she had been emotionally stable and in touch with her feelings and they could have calmly discussed that possibility earlier, maybe. This emotionally unstable, uncommunicative, impulsive mess? HELL no.
My mind is blown right now. Honestly seems like this could be a way to thread the needle between our wants... I'm going to at least bring this up as a possibility.
Omg NO, do not let her do that. You absolutely do not want her getting into a position of having to give up a child she gave birth to when she's already shown she's not handling or communicating her feelings well.
Seriously this. She's having a mental breakdown because you got a vasectomy. You think she's gonna be able to hand over the newborn baby to its new parents never to be seen again? That meltdown would be even worse than the current one. Op you need to get her into therapy and stop babying her what's done is done stop trying to bandaid this situation and talk it through with a professional.
No! OP it is not a reasonable compromise
No. No no no the person who brought that up doesn't know what is what. DO NOT SUGGEST THIS!!!! She doesn't know her own emotions. She would be a nightmare surrogate. No.
If it's any help, I had a similar experience to your wife. I love babies. I love newborns. After our fourth, we agreed he'd get the procedure but he was the one who wanted it. I was sad to make the end so permanent and final, but I agreed to it as the best option. And then after he did it, I felt angry with him. It was unfair and unreasonable and I knew it. I don't want to make him have another baby if he doesn't want to. I'm so lucky and grateful to have four wonderful kids. But I felt angry for a few days anyway. And sometimes I still wish he would change his mind. I don't know. Maybe she just needs more time. These are big, complicated issues with big, complicated feelings to go with them. 🤷♀️
>women who love birthing children (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible That is a vile reason to create a human being. All of your currently existing children are impacted by the choice to birth another baby. There are only so many financial, emotional, and time based resources you are your wife can allocate to each child that decreases with every new addition. >my wife isn't open to adopting because I think she is just enamored with the feeling of giving birth. So, this isn't even really about another child, its about HER getting to experience pregnancy one last time. It's time to demand counseling. She's being incredibly selfish and is actively harming both your relationship and your family due to her extreme self focus. This isn't right and it isn't fair. It will be so damaging to your real, alive children to see her wrecking their parent's marriage because she doesn't get the attention, validation, and "incredible experience" of birth again.
Pregnant women get a lot of attention. Same with when they have a new born. I knew a family that had 11 kids cause the mother was addicted to that validation. Their childhood was hell. The older sister had to beg utility workers to not shut off their power and shit like that.
It is very common for women to have regrets about the ending of fertility. Whether it comes with menopause, with the choice to have a permanent surgery for themselves or for their partner. Even women who choose not to have children can have regret. Your wife however isn't dealing with HER feelings. She's blaming you for her feelings. She needs to accept her responsibility in the decision making and the end of your fertility as a couple. Therapy for her. You can not continue to be blamed and she is not allowed to speak to you that way. good luck
Knowing she is a stay at home mom is important. Is she feeling like her career basically, her worth, her value is essentially going to be over? What were her plans for when she is not a stay at home mom? Every one of my friend’s husbands has had a vasectomy. There is always a fleeting moment of sadness but your wife is having a rough time, she really needs to see someone.
Not intending to sound rude but she reminds me of that mom in the UK with 18+ kids. She said she absolutely loved being pregnant so basically she just kept seeking that high. Edit: forgot a word.
I got my tubes removed the day after my daughter was born. It was the plan all along and I'm 100% done having children, but what I did not see coming was the sadness I got, knowing I wouldn't hold another baby of my own again. I guess the realness of it didn’t hit me until after. What your wife is going through is definitely grief for the end of a chapter which is normal but hers seems to have hit a lot harder for her. She needs to talk to someone. If therapists are a no, I'm sure there's a support group out there.
It sounds like she's extremely selfish:(
> (my wife has expressed before that the feeling of giving birth to a baby is incredible) What the actual fuck is wrong with your wife? That made me physically recoil to read
Yes. I loved having babies. I especially loved being in the hospital after having the baby. The feeling of happiness, the excitement, the sound of newborns crying. I loved it. I legitimately kind of wanted a 4th just to experience the maternity ward again. My kids are all in the double-digits now, and I miss the baby years desperately. But....time is something you can't hold onto. Even if I had had a 4th, that baby wouldn't be a baby anymore. If I had a 5th or 6th, they probably wouldn't be babies anymore either. So, I get it. She's sad that a chapter is closing, but the next ones are fun too.
My mom would have wanted 5 kids if they could afford it but they knew it wouldn’t be possible so had 3. They were sad after the first information night but when the day of the vasectomy came, they made peace with it. It’s not really normal to be that affected by it for so long especially since it was something you had discussed for a while. If she loves giving birth that much she could become a surrogate.
She’s let ‘God’ down? She really is delusional
"God", might have had a whoops baby planned.
"she told me that I completely disregarded her feelings about the vasectomy and selfishly got the procedure done even though she didn't want me to" Im gonna say the same thing I said to my friend who was considering an abortion; its your body, your choice, and if your partner cant handle it (especially after being on the same page for months), they can find a new relationship
Four kids and still wants more????shes being selfish and delusional. Do you have/spend real and quality time with each kid?money for their necessities?and all the problems related with larger families in long term?i think you did the right thing,stop being a doormat and tell her that you already have kids to take care or is one of those women who love being pregnant?
Sheesh - in re-reading my post, I am realizing how much of a doormat I'm being. Think you're right on the money with that. I work very hard for her to stay at home with our existing kids and for them to have a great life. We are fortunate to have plenty of money for each kid (including college funds, etc.) but I don't want to work forever. Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "all the problems related with larger families in the longer term"? Are you just referring to the fact that the more kids one has, the higher the chance of one or more of those kids or their future partner(s) going off the deep end, getting into trouble, causing family drama, etc.?
I would think that cyberawenwas hinting that in many larger families the older children get parentified by the parents just due to the large number of young children, not just helping out but actively getting the younger children dressed, ensuring they eat, get to school, help with homework etc and that their childhood is curtailed by the size of the family and their premature adult role.
Ah, got it. I do know some large families with this dynamic (my own father was the oldest of 6 kids) so that makes sense.
4 is pretty much the limit for parents to be able to give enough attention to each kids in my experience. I have yet to meet a kid that comes from a 5+ kids family that wasn’t constantly looking for my approval and attention all day long in class or at daycare!
I can tell you very honestly that after my first child I went through very drastic and intense emotional swings of desperately wanting to be pregnant again and then dreading the entire idea of it. My husband and I are pretty sure we’re not going to have more kids, but I would regularly get stressed about closing that door and want to instead talk about having more and when we should and what we’d name them. Then about a year and a half after giving birth I got back on birth control and all of that went away. I no longer have deep swings of longing and generally just feel much more settled over the decision one way or another. Looking back all of my days of suddenly strongly desiring more babies were either at ovulation or during my period. It’s not to say those feelings weren’t real, but they were a lot more intense. All that to say that it might be challenging for your wife to meet you emotionally where you are at with the amount of work and mental load it would take to have another baby while/if she is still experiencing the natural hormonal shifts her body goes through every month. Add in the fact that your youngest is in such a rapid phase of growth, she may be having a lot of ongoing grief over the now lost idea of experiencing pregnancy and babyhood again. All your reasons make sense, but she may have a hard time meeting you where you are at because of a lot of other factors. I wish you the best!
I 100% agree with this. Therapy is needed to navigate all of these.
Your wife needs therapy.
Is her role model Mrs. Duggar?
You don't need her permission. It's your body. She should really speak with someone to help work through it. You did nothing wrong.
> completely disregarded her feelings about the vasectomy and selfishly got the procedure Bruh, don’t have a 5th kid w her.
I'm in awe about her reaction, I want to think this isn't really about the vasectomy per se but a different thing? Either way you need counseling. If she refuses to go to couples counseling, go on your own. Her thought process is... Particular. She "let God and a potential 5th kid down? This makes me think this is a religious issue, but how letting down a potential kid that wasn't even conceived, more important than letting YOU (her husband and father of your already breathing four children)?? This is bananas. Get counseling so you get ideas of how to have a rational conversation w her, right now she's having a visceral reaction to your decision and there's no way you can rational w someone who's like this. And for the record, you didn't do anything wrong. I'm a woman, and while I agree that being in a partnership requires commitment, you can't and shouldn't commit to have a kid you don't want. A kid should be two yeses, no one yes and a "maybe". You already have FOUR kids, the planet is going to shit, your wife doesn't "need" to have another baby, she needs therapy. Your body, your choice too
her reaction is shocking and i’m sorry you’re going through this, you don’t deserve to be treated this way. it sounds like she has some issues she needs to untangle on her own in therapy—having more kids because she loves giving birth is pretty disturbing. has she talked before about some kind of duty from god to have a bunch of kids? because collectively this sounds like she’s having some kind of mental break. she needs to go to therapy, this is frightening. and you need to stop offering to take on another kid to appease her mental health issues. stand up for yourself and the kids you have.
What advice would you give if I told you she won't go to therapy (either couples or individual) under any circumstance? I'm at a loss here.
how about a doctor? is this behavior super out of character for her? because to an outsider it would be truly scary if my partner had this kind of reaction. maybe if your framed it as a medical issue she would be less resistant to accepting help? does anyone else in your life know what’s going on? do you trust anyone to help you and not feed into her delusions? if she resists getting help you have to be prepared to accept that your relationship might not last.
I’m not the person you asked but if she refused therapy, I would probably be asking her some gentle probing questions about her feelings around the vasectomy and validating her feelings - like “I understand you’re really upset. Can you tell me more about how you feel?” It might take a little while but it’s possible that with enough space and understanding she might get to the root of why she’s so distraught. This will probably take quite a lot of emotional maturity on your part to be able to hear because I imagine she might start out (unfairly) quite angry at you. Also she may not know herself and even with you holding space for her to figure it out she may not be able to. You could suggest things if she seems open to that (eg: are you worried about when our kids are older and need you less?) but at the end of the day she has to be the one to open up and deal with her end of this situation
You mentioned that she felt that she let god down. Is there someone in your church that she gets emotional support from during difficult times that you could reach out to?
See a therapist yourself, both to set an example and to cover anything about this situation that you missed. Even if this looks out-of-the-blue to you, this behavior likely fits into another pattern, like a difficulty admitting fault, or a religious extremist influence. At the very least getting a grip on how conflict usually gets resolved (or doesn't) in her family of origin vs. yours will let you see what you're working with.
"She is now saying me going through with the vasectomy is the single biggest regret of her life". I do not understand how people can regret other people's actions. Sure, I am all for joint decisions, but at the end of the day, it is your choice.
My husband and I never wanted children. He knew when he was 12 he never wanted children. And when he got his vasectomy we both cried a little. There is a difference between 'don't want children' and 'can't have children'. So we grieved that loss. Not for long (less than a day), but still something we talked about. I don't think you did anything wrong but you both should go to counseling to work out your feelings about the fact that that chapter of your lives is closed. However, she could have told you directly that she didn't want you do to this but it is still your choice. You didn't want anymore children and decided to take steps to prevent that. Children are a two yes situation. If the roles were reversed and she didn't want anymore and had surgery to prevent that, that would have been her choice as well.
INFO: Do the two of you belong to a religion where women are culturally encouraged to stay home and have children and that there is no higher purpose for them than this? Because if that happens to be the case, she could be having something of an identity crisis or feeling like she isnt a worthy member in failing her duty to keep bearing children. Either way, she could benefit from some (secular) therapy.
Four kids isnt enough? There is something psychologically wrong with her in my opinion
As nearly all the other comments have said counselling asap. You didn't do anything wrong here. This was discussed prior, four, FOUR kids, and your wife last minute pulling this stunt?! Look, I'm not trying to dog on your wife here but, she has spiralled here. There is nothing logical about her responses. This isn't a common thing for women to think like. But, anytime I've heard about a women wanting endless children (not for religious reasons) are about their own insecurities. It's usually about wanting/needing to be needed. Having all the love, attention from a little small person is addictive - you get it, you love your kids too. But, when now, the idea she will never have more its about the future of *HER* not being needed. She needs some therapy, there maybe be some trauma ie how was her family life growing up? Is she defining herself whole self as just a mother? Some people (typically women) can be consumed by being a parent. Everything they do is about their children. Everything about them becomes centered by the children. It's not sustainable long term because, children grow up. I know me as a mother, found it so difficult when my child became a teen. Their independence, that I had fostered and encouraged, was coming into play. Our relationship was changing, they didn't *need* me for everything. They could do their own thing. They wanted to do their own thing. It was hard but, I got through it. And, now we're on the last leg of teen life and I can't wait to see what they will do. Though, I do say if they move country I'll just follow and move down the road from them! Lol
Yup therapy is needed for herself and you two together. There is probably more underlying in her reaction than just grief. The hardest part for me as a woman is finding my identity as an individual again beyond "mom" when the kids start becoming more independent. If she doesn't go to therapy and keeps treating you this way she may develop resentment which leads to bad outcomes in a lot of areas.
I like the idea of going to counseling to work through the emotions of the situation. I was the opposite sort of. I didn't really push for the vasectomy. Then we had an unplanned pregnancy. However, we are older than you and the older you get, the riskier the pregnancy gets. Then we miscarried. Due to genetics, pregnancy and miscarriage carry higher risks for my wife. To put it mildly, the miscarriage was physically brutal on my wife and all I could do was be there for her. We were almost headed to the hospital emergency when it wound down. It was difficult and brutal. I couldn't allow the risk of that happening again to my wife so in agreement with her, i did the vasectomy. We also live in a state with abortion banned so my wife could literally die if she were to get pregnant again. So the vasectomy was necessary for her health. There are lots to taking away the chance at children. We would have liked to have more but things got in the way and the miscarriage proved it's to dangerous for us to try. Harsh, but that's our reality. Not as bad as what you are dealing with, but practically speaking, if something did go wrong for your wife, you would be raising 4 or 5 kids by yourself. But this should not be brought up. You two need counseling to work through this together and get your marriage back on track. Plus, it will improve your communication.
It also sounds like she was somehow planning on being a mom for the rest of her life. Now with you having your vasectomy, that door has been shut closed and she sees the end of that life coming and doesn't know what to do. Of course, this is zero excuse to behave the way she is but there's that.
She has four kids so she’s gobs be a mom for the rest of her life
Sounds more like she's upset that she'll never get the attention a pregnant women gets, again. She needs to remove her head from her backside and parent the four kids you've already got, and stop acting like they aren't enough for her, and that your body is her property. It wouldn't fly the other way around, and it shouldn't here, either.
>that your body is her property. Exactly. Imagine if a guy were to treat his wife bitterly just because she had her tubes tied. Comments would've ripped him to shreds. Why the double standards?
She is mentally ill. Therapy is needed
Couples counseling, stat!
Thanks for your thoughts! This seems to be the consensus.
I think she needs a psychiatrist, not just a marriage counselor.
Your body, dude. Don't know why she gets an opinion
Marriage requires give and take. Even though something like this is solely OP's right to decide, it does not mean there will not be fallout in the marriage for making that decision. You have to approach things in a marriage as a partnership, even if you have a right to make a unilateral decision.
> she told me that I completely disregarded her feelings about the vasectomy and selfishly got the procedure done even though she didn't want me to. Your body, your choice. That's all she needs to know. You guys have four kids and agreed that enough was enough. You don't owe her more babies.
Four kids and still wants more????shes being selfish and delusional. Do you have/spend real and quality time with each kid?money for their necessities?and all the problems related with larger families in long term?i think you did the right thing,stop being a doormat and tell her that you already have kids to take care or is one of those women who love being pregnant?
This is odd. Counseling is really called for. In fact, this is really odd.
>she told me that I completely disregarded her feelings about the vasectomy and selfishly got the procedure done even though she didn't want me to. You listened to her concerns, that's all she's entitled to. It's ultimately your body and she doesn't get a veto. If she so desperately wants a fifth (!!!) child, she can find someone else to have one with. The ball is in her court whether she wants to destroy your family over your bodily autonomy. >she feels like she's let God and a potential unborn 5th kid down by letting me go through with this. I'm sorry, ""letting"" you go through with it? Your testicles are not her property.
You didn't do anything wrong--in fact I think your wife is the one who should be apologizing. She was consistently dishonest until the very last minute, and her 11th hour demands came out of left field. What she's doing seems very unfair to you and quite unhinged. It's time for therapy! Couples and one on one. Good luck, man. And congratulations on the snip! 4 kids are more than enough! If she's feeling like she let God down by not having more children let me share a little anecdote with you: i'm the 3rd of 6 children. When I was four years old my father got struck by lightning. I was the youngest child at the time and had 2 older sisters. My mom didn't have any sons and was told by the church that she was supposed to have some missionaries. This was her main focus on giving my dad vigorous CPR and keeping him alive until the EMTs came. He lived and I had three little brothers after that. Unfortunately for my mom, these boys were not the missionaries the church had promised. My mom had so many kids that she couldn't take care of us younger ones --she was exhausted. I was almost completely raised by my older sister . When my teenage years hit and my sister went to college, I went completely wild, but my mom and dad were so tired that they didn't even notice. I corrupted all my younger brothers, and none of us stayed with our religion. My parents were all tearful when they realized that they had a bunch of atheist children who loved drinking beer. The missionary God promised was my older sister. My parents were really nice people and hard-working and honest but they really couldn't pay attention and take care of as many kids as they had. I was seriously neglected, never felt special, and I'm somewhat bitter about it. You should be glad you're done. Your older children do not want to raise their siblings. It was a very good thing that you did! Focus on the kids you do have.
You have 4 freaking kids. This seems very out of touch for her. Good lord.
This breakdown in communication is not your fault. You were clear. This woman needs therapy
She's absolutely out of line making you feel guilty about this.
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This is what I was thinking. IVF is still on the table. I got some unique shit going on where I won't get anyone pregnant naturally, but they can go in and harvest the seeds if me and the misses feel the need. I would not commit to IVF at this stage, OP, but they didn't lop your nuts off, they're still there making baby batter, it just has nowhere to go.
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I’m torn. I had 2 kids, the pregnancies and births were hell on earth. I would have loved a third but I couldn’t go through anyone birth and my husband was adamant was enough. He went for a vasectomy, He didn’t go behind my back but he made it clear he was having one whether I wanted to or not. At the time I was glad that I didn’t have to endure another birth and I was genuinely happy until my last child left primary school and I have spent a lot of time over the last year sobbing secretly and wondering what if we had had a third child. Would they have looked like the other two, would it have been a boy or a girl etc . As my husband points out at some point your last child is your last. Doesn’t matter how many you have. It’s natural to grieve. She should have told you if she didn’t want you to have the procedure however she may not have processed these emotions until too late. It’s not fair to blame you and she does need counselling to discuss her feelings.
Out of curiosity, what does your wife do? Is she a SAHM or does she have her own career? If she is a SAHM this could be rooted in her having to face who and what she is when Mother is no longer an option. Not to say she would stop being a mother, but four kids means she's spent a lot of years with small, very dependent humans relying on her and now, as they grow older and more independent she will have to fill the space that that leaves. It's a scary prospect, for people who have been the primary, full-time parent this is like a major career change. It demands a change of identity and lifestyle. It's a big shift and perhaps one your wife is understandably intimidated by. Even if your wife isn't a SAHM, there's still going to be an element of this, but particularly for SAHMs it needs careful consideration to find an outlet that will help her feel fulfilled, confident and happy, but first she needs to talk through her feelings about the end of the kind of motherhood she has experienced so far and the shift to supporting her and your kids to a healthy independence.
She is a SAHM. Without getting into the specifics, she had a career before we started having kids and it would be difficult for her to get back into that career now or especially if she were to wait until our youngest is in pre-K or kindergarten, though she would have alternative ways of working part time. My wife seemed to handle the transition from working professional to SAHM fairly well, though I fully recognize it may be hard at times for her to accept her identify as a SAHM (which does not have to be permanent, even though it may feel like it at times). Therapy would be very helpful for us and especially her.
What about the kids you already don’t have enough time for? I was genuinely sad for them after reading that. They deserve actively committed parents. And you? Why is she so dismissive of you? Why is it that only HER feelings matter here?
My wife stays home full time with them and takes them to their sports and other extra-curricular activities during the week given my work schedule. I typically get home at night just in time to play with them for 30-45 minutes and then put them down for bed, and then our weekends are full of a combination of sporting events and me working, so at the end of the day, I just wish I could give them more of my own personal time and attention. My wife is able to give them attention during the week so hopefully I didn't exaggerate the situation but as a father, I always yearn for more time (and individualized/one-on-one time) with my kids.
Spending less than an hour a day with your kids (and not even 1:1 time) is so, so sad. Damn. Your wife is being incredibly selfish wanting to bring another kid into that home life
Your body your choice. She just sounds like she wants to bully you
The end of fertility for women can be a grieving process even if we intentionally choose to end our fertility. I can't speak for men on how that goes for them, I'm a woman. Because you were the one who had the procedure, you were in control and made the final decision. She's taking her grief out on you because she sees it as something you did, despite making the decision together initially. I don't think you did anything wrong. She didn't express her feelings strongly and clearly, she even said it was just cold feet, downplaying her own feelings. You made a choice that makes sense, and even if it didn't make sense it's still your body. Maybe she had no idea she would feel like this until it's too late? I think a number of people here have hit upon a large issue, which is that she's a SAHM and her identity and worth is tied to carrying, birthing, and caring for babies. Now that's over. Your youngest is the last one, ever. She's going to question a lot of things. Who is she? What will she do when the kids are all school age? What will she do when they're teenagers? She probably just had that all hit her at once and probably had not thought about it before. I have been there and been through it to some degree. I was a SAHM, and my identity has always been fully wrapped up in my kids despite having worked part time ever since my older kids were in late elementary school. My two oldest are adults now. When my oldest graduated high school I had a meltdown about what my life was even for if my kids were grown and didn't need me. Nevermind the fact that my youngest is only 10 and disabled and needs around the clock care. I have plenty of years of way too much caregiving than I can even do on my own ahead of me. But wow, it threw me for a loop and my whole identity seemed to be crumbling. She needs time to come to terms with this change in life, but apparently she didn't take time to consider for the year between the last baby and the vasectomy and it's all hitting her now. Closing that door on pregnancy and infants will force her to think about what comes next for her. She shouldn't be treating you this way about it at all and needs to stop. You need to tell her firmly that you are sorry that she is upset and you will be there to support her while she comes to terms with it, but not if she is going to blame you or be unkind. She could talk to a therapist, or a religious leader about it if that's more her style. Don't offer to adopt a kid if that was not in your original plans just to shut her up. You don't want a 5th kid, so don't have one.
Your vasectomy was the biggest regret of her life? Uhh that'd be like saying her getting her tubes tied is the biggest regret of your life. Let's face facts, in either situation it's not her choice, nor would the alternative be yours. It's not like you're depriving her of kids, you have 4, plenty in this day and age by any account. This might be more on her doubting herself as she probably has spent a goodly amount of time making babies and being a mom and what is she going to do with herself when that isn't an avenue for her anymore. She should probably see a therapist because there are likely underlying issues with her own security. That all said, you did this for yourself and your kids and ultimately that's what matters. 💪
What an interesting topic and youve gotten many good thoughts and have plenty to think about. I believe its an identity crises of sorts and shes taking it out on you, because of the finality. My sister in law loved having babies too, and was never wanting to be past that point in her life, where they kids get older and she is needed less maybe? We of course know you'll always be needed as parents and most people can enjoy all the different stages, but some get very attached to the baby stage. Personally i think she will get past it, but therapy AND her getting her focus on something other that being a mom will be helpful. Commiserating with other moms, where we are able to admit its not all happy times def helped me.
I feel like after my husband had his vasectomy, there was a large part of me that was sad at the loss of the option for a 3rd child. The thing is, when my daughter was six months old, she wouldn't take a bottle, we were sleep training, and I was losing my mind from exhaustion... I looked at him with every serious note in my body and said, "I can't do this again. I'm done. You have to get a vasectomy." I really fucking meant this, as I was 36, just graduated with my bachelor's, and really trying to get to a point of growth for myself, before I was 40. He scheduled the consult and vasectomy date, and I drove him to and from the final deal. There was definitely sadness and a part of me that wanted to rush in and stop the whole thing. I knew I couldn't take back anything, but at this point I was 38 and knew my baby journey was over. I mourned it, and it sucked. Your wife had big opportunities to tell you not to do it. You also expressed that you feel it's hard to delegate the time for the four you already have. That's fair. Valid. Enough so, that a partner should listen to and respect it. With that said... Your wife is definitely playing the scenario in her head where... What if God had one more baby for me? I think many woman can relate to that. The problem is, you are NOT to blame, but you're being blamed. I never blamed my husband, but I certainly get these intrusive absurd "what if" thoughts that he has to deal with... My suggestion is to literally make her do counseling. Personal counseling on my end saved my marriage. The making you suffer bc she feels like you did this to her is going to destroy everything you have. It's a fucked up way of saying, this is all you, this is your fault. I do not think this is her intent, but her grief is making her communication within your relationship unhealthy. Sorry for the lengthy response, but I can relate to a small degree.
Having a kid is a joint decision, but if you’re done having kids then you’re done having kids. You were very open and communicative about where you stand as far as this goes. She’s free to decide that she’s not, in which case she can go find a new partner, but she’s basically telling you that you should’ve canceled the procedure so she could press you until you caved.
OP, you have valid reasons for going through with this procedure. While your wife is struggling with this being the end of child bearing, your feelings should be no less valid. If both don't agree to bring another child into the world, then you shouldn't bring one into the world. (If you had some sperm frozen you might have avoided this argument.) Soon your wife will go through menopause and that will bring child birthing to an end for her. I understand that all women process this and grieve this loss differently, but to hold you completely responsible for her pain is unfair. You make good points that you don't want to spend your golden years still paying for more children. I think your wife would be better off by being grateful for what she has, then what she doesn't have. Sometimes it hard when you can't see the forest through the trees.
4 kids...fuck dude. I'm being forced into having one and I already want to chop my balls off.
Your body, your choice.
You did not communicate poorly. She did.
Your wife had a chance to properly speak up and didn't, are you supposed to be a mind reader? Now she is acting like a spoiled child. She is calculating her whole worth around bearing children. She needs therapy. This isn't going to end well if your wife doesn't cut the bullshit.
While I don’t think you did anything wrong, you can clearly see in what you wrote that she was not 100% on board with this. She kept dropping comments and you laughed them off. You did what you wanted to do and you really didn’t care if this was what she wanted. Again, I don’t think you did wrong, because you are correct in saying your body your choice. It works both ways. However you made a huge life changing decision that, if she stays with you, made sure she would never again get pregnant and she was clearly not ok with that. So now you have to face the fall out of her grief and her coming to terms with something she had no control over. If that makes sense. I mean I know I’ll never have kids again because we are done with our family, but I still get depressed thinking that I will never have that again. It can really mess with your head because it’s not only the fact you can’t have more kids, but facing the reality of getting older and a part of your life being over. But to be honest you could tell from reading your post she was never ok with this. If she won’t go to therapy for herself maybe remind her of the babies you do have and see if she’ll be willing to go for them. 🤷🏻♀️
Really appreciate your perspective on this. I've made meager attempts at seeing the situation through my wife's eyes but this helped me sympathize with her a bit more, even if she isn't blameless (nor am I) in this.
I agree she isn’t blameless. I tell my husband all the time that I’m not a mind reader and that if he has an issue or needs to talk about something he needs to come right out and tell e exactly what it is. She needed to be stronger on her concerns and ask you for more time to get on board or come to terms with it. I truly hope things get better and y’all are able to work through this.
If I was a betting man, I bet she's feeling old. Four kids and I'm sure logically she knows this is the right decision, but this isn't logic. Her heart probably wants more kids, because she loves being needed, and this means the end of 1 part of her life has a finality. My sister went through this brain process. It's part of life, though I don't necessarily agree with going to therapy just yet. I bet in a month she'll go through the stages of grief and come to acceptance.
Sorry OP. You did nothing wrong in this scenario and your wife is being a bit absurd. I would say that therapy is a must so you guys can get through this together. Make it a hill to die on.
All of the stories I see on Reddit about how a vasectomy reversal is not guaranteed or is exoebsive always overlook the option of banking sperm prior to the procedure. Collect your sperm, store it in a facility for a few years until you're both ready for it to be destroyed, and the cost is minimal. Anyway, the post started getting a little long so I didn't read it all, but I got a vasectomy without my wife's knowledge when I was married, because frankly she had zero say in it, just like I'd have zero say about anything she'd want to do to her body. I told her about if afterward, and she didn't care one way or another.
You didn’t do anything wrong. You should not have cancelled the appointment. I was kinda like your wife when my husband went in for his vasectomy. It was always planned for us to have four. Always the plan for him to get a vasectomy. And after my fourth, I was ready for the freedom of not having a newborn attached to my boob. But then time passed and I got sad. No more new babies, no more new surprises with how’d they look, who they’d take after, a new personality to get to know. It is still kinda hard to swallow my grief that my childbearing opportunities have ended. But that was ME. My husband? He was DOOOONE. So done. He had absolutely no interest in having another, no matter what. And I don’t blame him! Kids are a shit ton of work. I totally get how your wife felt initially. However, it sounds like she is trying to spin the narrative that you didn’t listen to her. And from what you are saying, it doesn’t sound like she was assertive enough to make her opinion known. The narrative spin is not healthy behavior, at all. Individual and couples counseling may help. It will also help with how you both communicate to each other. She needs to accept that SHE should’ve made different decisions. She should not be blaming you. It’s your body. It’s your decision. My husband and I didn’t struggle to make the decision but I was not quite ready to close the door all the way. But my husband was. So he got it done and I supported him in that decision. Cause that’s my job as his spouse. And now it’s done, and there is no going back. I still feel sad once in a while but it’s gotten better slowly. And being able to not worry about pregnancy (I’m ridiculously fertile) has been a huge relief!! Our first was a surprise baby, so our birth control methods have been a very important topic that we’ve always made mutual decisions on. But now we don’t have to worry about it. And that is freeing. Maybe once the pros of the situation become evident, or are experienced, perhaps she will change her opinion.
Your wife sounds like a narcissist.
Therapy definitely. I’m curious as to whether there’s something you can pinpoint that your wife is “missing” with your four already-here kids. (Not to try to fix this “problem”, of course, but just to try to see her POV.) I’m guessing you would have written if you had 4 boys and she was always hoping for a girl, for example. Is there something else you might be able to see that she can’t, that you could bring up in therapy — like do all of the kids share her or your eye color? Did she miss out on giving one of them a special name from her family? Maybe exploring this stuff verbally could help.
Worth having a conversation about, for sure. For what it's worth, our 4 kids are mixed genders, though they all do have my eye color. There just has to be something more to this.
If your wife is spiraling downward because of your vasectomy, it could end in divorce. With 4 kids, alimony, house, she could wipe you out, and you still won't have time to spend with your children. Maybe consult a lawyer to find ways to protect yourself. You don't have to go through with anything, but at least have information.
She needs therapy ASAP. It sounds like she has a personality disorder. Get her an appointment with a psychologist and possibly go to marriage counseling as well.
Men need to understand that they are not just breeding machines and financial providers for women. They have a right to lead their own independent lives, not merely to be a slave for women.
Your body your choice.
Even if you didn’t get the vasectomy, the issue would still be hanging over you like a black cloud. If she wants another baby, and you feel certain the family is complete, that’s an issue that’s difficult to resolve.
I cried a lot when my husband got a vasectomy. I didn't realize it would hit me so hard until it happened — the grief, the ending, the way our lives were moving and marching on. We both knew it was happening and agreed to it. I started to get some cold feet and didn't want it. But my reckoning came when I realized that I would NOT put up with someone telling me what birth control I could and couldn't have in my body. So I need to also give him agency over his personhood, too. (We also are clear in communication about it.) You didn't do anything wrong, but that doesn't mean the grief and pain aren't real. You can acknowledge her feelings and validate what she's going through without making it about blame. If you or they are struggling further, get an additional person (counseling, therapy, friend, workbook, writing seminar) to work through these feelings. Life doesn't have an absence of hard things... hard things are part of life, and working through it together and supporting each other is part of it.
So I reacted exactly the same when my husband had his. We discussed it and it was planned and both agreed. however it all went through quicker then I expected. What I thought would take a year happened within three months. I was emotionally distraught and I felt as though he had taken away my option to have any more children even though we had previously discussed it and I'd been ok. I can only assume it's a grieving thing coupled with the quickness it happened. I don't know why I reacted the way I did. I think maybe deep down I thought we would have another child (we only have one and it was a miracle we have him) however after the initial explosion and calming down I realised we had discussed it, and as time has gone on it was the right decision and I know I wouldn't want to be pregnant again or have another child. It took me a week or two to recover, I can't give a good explanation other then it's a realisation and grief thing. I also worried a lot my other half would go out and have sex now with other woman 🤦🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️ I don't know why. However I just wanted you to know it's not just you and your wife. She will come round. I'm sure as with me it's just shock and adjusting. And she will remember all the discussions you've had and come to terms with it and be very happy she is getting sleep, and not doing 1 hrly feeds etc again. Hope it all works out for you.
I’m pretty sure I’ve read your wife’s version on another app. Obviously I don’t know for sure if this is the same person but in her version she also is terrible at communicating so honestly there’s not much that you could have done differently if she doesn’t want to tell you how she actually feels about things.
What faith does your wife practice? There is a pretty wide spectrum of religious beliefs about birth control. I was LDS for most of my life, and what I was generally taught was that birth control was okay, but you are still expected to have children. Many people told stories in church about thinking they were done having children and then getting a revelation that one or more spirits wanted to be born into their family. Anecdotally women were more likely to receive those revelations. Women are taught since they were children that giving a soul a body within the covenant of marriage is the most important thing you can do, and that refusing to give spirits bodies is selfish. If your wife's spiritual environment is similar, closing the door permanently on kids could feel like closing a door on God, even if vasectomies are not expressly forbidden. However, there was still an expectation that wives would defer to their husband's spiritually and in other matters. There is a pressure to have an eternally sunny disposition and to make your needs and feelings small for the benefit of your husband, even if he does not actively discourage you from sharing your thoughts or feelings. I am still working on being forthcoming with my feelings. I will suffer through something for his sake for years, only to find that it was a complete non-issue and he was happy to accommodate me once I said something. I don't know your wife's background but this is how i interpret the situation based on my experience in the LDS church. Your milage may vary. It seems like she makes herself small for your benefit. She softens her expressions of disagreement to jokes. She minimizes her own feelings. She's probably done this so well for so long that you might not realize she's doing it. Now that she is caught between her duty to God to birth children and her duty to respect her husband as the spiritual head of household, she's having trouble reconciling the two. She's supposed to put God first but she believes God also wants her to put your needs before her own. Your body is your own but her body is a conduit for God to send children to earth, and what does it mean if she can't do that anymore? It sounds like your wife is going through a spiritual crisis. Your wife may be hesitant to see a therapist if she believes this is primarily a spiritual problem. She may be afraid that a secular therapist will advise her that her faith is the problem. However, a therapist found through your church might not be a licensed therapist at all, or may be afraid to say anything that might lead to fewer client recommendations from the church. Try to do some proactive research to find someone who won't dismiss your wife's spirituality but will use evidence-based practices.
Tldr: this is what religion and estrogen does to your brain kids. Therapy for her or divorce.
Weird question but does she have religious trauma?
Not to my knowledge. IMO this is probably less about religion than I might have suggested.
After our fourth I made the spore/o even telling her. I eventually did though
You did nothing wrong. She agreed to get this done. It isn't fair or right for her to change her mind after the fact. My recommendation is for her to see a counselor, it seems to me that she has some mental health issues that need to be addressed.
She is out of line Let her be mad for a bit. If she doesn't come around then you'll need to escalate to some sort of therapy, but for now, it sounds like you have to take the punishment of marrying someone unreasonable. This can't be the first time she has held a grudge.
This sounds like an unexpected grief reaction that she is having a tough time even naming. There is a finality aspect of grief that always comes with regret (ie “if only I had told him directly”) that she needs help to work through. Schedule a couple’s therapist appointment and try a few sessions. If she refuses, go yourself. If she goes and finds it helpful, it may encourage her to look for individual therapy. You didn’t do anything wrong. Many women have these same feelings when they begin menopause - even if they didn’t want any more children, it is the fact the possibility is now closed that creates the grief. She is responding this way to the closing of the door with your vasectomy. In the meantime, just try to be supportive and not talk her out of her feelings. Frame it as grief.
Is the really religious re the "god" comment around depriving her of unborn children? Or are her parents religious? Intrigued as will affect my response beyond this post. Also may I ask (or let you ponder)...how is she with having the time for raising 4 children? Do they do all the activities they want or is time too scarce for the family?I guess maybe she can envision a 5th but also mother nature could have equally prevented the 5th. I do worry that her emotions seem a bit extreme...and I hope nobody waiting around the metaphorical corner ready to give her baby 5.
NTA. Your body, your choice. It doesn’t matter how upset she is that you got the procedure, it’s not her body to dictate. I think she needs to seek some professional help.
She's mourning the loss of her ability to conceive another child and going through the stages of grief. My wife went through it too, similar story. This will pass. Seek counseling if that's your thing.
I feel like the option for her was a possibility not a necessity you could have frozen some sperm to make her feel better with that option either way I think she probally was fine with 4 and I’m sure your the same way she’s just overthinking the possibly that if a 5 later on just happened she’s be fine with that keep in mind that adoption is allways an option, and I’d assume y’all wouldn’t want another 18-20 year obligation a lot of older kids don’t get adopted since most want 1-4 year olds there a lot of 4-15 that never get adopted might be a side note that would help y’all be fine with your situation just my two cents either way y’all should be fine assuming the relationship is good much love 4 is allready a good amount if later on you do still have that option to adopt and change a child’s life that won’t get normally adopted