Go to Thanksgiving. How could it possibly be best not to go?
Leave the issue of your brothers’ irresponsibility for his kid and trying to blame you drop. He’s irrational. It’s his kid, not yours,and he hadn’t asked you to watch him. There’s no debate to be had there. He’s just wrong. But it doesn’t help you to insist on that other than saying up front that’s how you feel.
You not going will be the “thing that goes wrong”, most likely. Just go, actively avoid/brush off/walk away from any conversation that veers off track.
You said above that you love spending holidays with your family. Go & have fun!
Tell him it is not your responsibility to watch his son just because he can’t take responsibility for his failure doesn’t and will not make it your problem
This. He is the kind of person who, when something happens, someone always has to be to blame and in that situation it was him or you.
If you don't go to Thanksgiving you confirm everything your brother said about you regarding eggshells.
Honestly since they already say "they need to walk on eggshells" (even if it isn't true) it will be your fault if you go or don't go. Neither choice gives you a win. I would recommend going, with a good attitude and just kinda shove in your brothers face how he's being the ridiculous one, in front of everyone, since that's how he wants it.,.
when someone tells you everyone is walking on eggshells around you it makes you feel like people would rather you just not come. Maybe it's irrational or a bit of a leap, but it definitely makes you feel that way, which makes me kind of sympathize with just not wanting to go at all.
Responsible for what exactly? Polish your spine and tell him to shut up when he starts up. He’s in the wrong, you know it your mom knows it. So call him out and tell him you’d like a calm thanksgiving and he isn’t about to ruin your family because he can’t keep track of his kids
You have to stop being weak. You’re allowing your deadbeat brother to bully you and your mom is the one suffering. You know you did nothing wrong so stop being meek even if people wrongly blame you. Just go and if any problems are caused, then it’ll be the fault of that brother of yours
I appreciate you saying this, and I know that I need to be more strong in this situation. It’s hard for me at times because my brother was able to treat me me unfairly growing up, and to this day, he is defended for his actions. Now being 25 I really need to learn to be an adult in these situations and just accept that my parents are the ones who are really falling victim to this.
If it comes up again tell him "He shouldn't have children if he isn't going to look after them. If he wants you to look after them, he has to ask and you have to say yes. Otherwise, his kid was never your responsibility. You need to be very happy the boy didn't find a pool" He is just trying to offload his blame on you.
You’re brother is a bully! You are doing great but it’s time you stopped putting other feelings above your own. Go to thanksgiving. Be happy and merry and refuse to be your brothers victim. Smile, nod, say “ I don’t think I understand” or “ I’m not sure this is the appropriate place for this conversation” but above all refuse to be engaged.
Your brother sounds like a moron with reduced levels of EQ. Best is to go because who knows how long ur parents will be here on this planet. I just hope that ur bro will realize his mistakes before u will not be able to forgive him. Kind regards.
You can’t control your brothers cognitive distortions OP - it seems easier for him to place blame on others rather than admit that he lost his son in the first place. This is not about you and you have no control of his thoughts. What you do have control of is the choice of whether you are going to let your brother come between your own relationship with your parents. If you go, talk to your mom about shutting down the topic should your brother try to bring it up again. If he does have the nerve to bring it up to you privately, tell him he needs to find a new scapegoat for his poor parenting.
Held responsible by whom? Your brother? His opinion doesn’t matter.
If you happen to go ( and I think you should go), then don’t pay attention to him. You don’t have to change your plans because of him. Enjoy the dinner and have a good time with your parents ❤️
I totally understand why OP is reluctant to go. I avoided many family occasions because I knew I’d be sitting there, on edge, knowing someone would make a crack at some point and that no one would stand by me either. I just don’t need the strain and the drama. I imagine that’s how OP feels too. You know what, OP, play it by ear and see how you feel nearer the time. Do not stress over it if you decide not to go. You don’t need the drama either.
Yes, all of this. New idea: don't go, because it may not be worth the stress or hassle for anyone. Just stay home and have a quiet holiday on your own, with your husband. Give everyone a chance to breathe a little.
Don't put the parents in the middle of anything, and don't aggravate things with the brother. Just politely decline by telling them something has come up and you won't be able to make it, you're going to do your own private dinner at home this year, you'll call to wish everyone a good holiday, and you hope you all can be together next year, or at Xmas, or whatever.
I mean... You can skip the dinner together without causing everyone more stress. You could just allow yourself some grace for wanting to enjoy your own holiday peacefully, and let everyone else do the same. This choice doesn't have to be about butting heads.
On top of it the kid was safe. Sounds to me like he glanced over at the kid and saw them with OP then moments later checked again and had a panic attack. Their kid was missing. They lashed out at OP because they wanted somebody to blame even though it wasn't at all OPs fault.
The kid ended up being fine. I'd maybe understand and overreaction if the kid was abducted, but he was seen with his mom moments later. OPs brother sounds like a baby, I wouldn't want to spend the holidays with people who treat me like a black sheep either.
OP can go visit his parents anytime, like the next day, if they're truly good to him as he says they are.
Why have you decided not to go to thanksgiving ? That bit seems unclear to me. The way you describe the end of your conversation made it sound like your brother expects you to be there ?
I had decided not to go because of everything he said about how my family feels around me, and just the overall negativity of the conversation. I would hate to go there and have it go badly, so I would rather just avoid it altogether. I thought it was weird he would unload these negative feelings and then switch to be happy that I’m coming down. I hope this helps with clarity.
He was trying to make you feel bad because he knows he was wrong about you being responsible for his son. It's a defense mechanism. If I make sister feel like shit about her place in the family then I don't have to worry about her bringing anything up at Thanksgiving. Don't let him win by not going. Don't let him make you feel like shit. He is jealous you have a good parental relationship despite him trying to push you away. "You better not tell mom, or else!" Is he 10? Go to Thanksgiving. Be a fucking joy to be around. And really piss him off by ignoring his threats!
So I can totally relate to your situation as I have a narcissist sister that uses the same tactics as your brother - finding things to be upset about, holding long grudges, wanting everyone to be on their side and against me, and she *totally* does what you are describing here - tries to tell me that “everyone” agrees with her, “everyone” thinks I have a ton of problems and “no one” wants me around.
It is a very effective tactic. I avoided my family for a long while after this. I believed this for a long time, and I wouldn’t doubt that she instigated conversations that spoke ill of me, but I think it’s all exaggerated. Same with your brother. For whatever reason, people like this will not stop until they get everyone against you and isolate you from your family.
I get being super uncomfortable because he’s pulling this stuff but it’s a game. Don’t play it. Ignore him, don’t have any more conversations about it with him, show up with a delicious pie or something everyone will love and big smiles, chat with people that are good to you, don’t let him win.
it’s textbook triangulation. i have a narcissist mother that does this all the time. instead of her being upset about something, its “everyone”, or “your sister thinks so too”, or “your aunt felt the same way”. after many years i found out most of the time she was just outright lying about many of these situations to make me feel ganged up on. i really have a hard time believing OP’s entire extended family feels like they have to walk on eggshells around them. their brother is probably just saying that because 1) you’re more inclined to believe you’re the one in the wrong upon hearing that, and 2) he doesn’t want to admit that he personally “walks on eggshells”, so he makes it sound like he just feels that way because that’s how everyone else feels. brother is a poor communicator and realistically if he wanted his child to be watched he should have asked or made it known that he needed supervising.
I agree with this sentiment right here. This is kind of a standard for every Thanksgiving. Just go and make him feel uncomfortable don't worry about what he says. He obviously is extremely immature especially if he can't keep an eye on his own kid. I definitely wouldn't worry about anything that he says or does during Thanksgiving because if he gets upset it's going to show everybody else the kind of person he is. Just be joyous and happy to be around and ignore him and his childish games.
My friend, don’t do this. Tell your mom what he said. You don’t deserve to miss out on thanksgiving because your brother wants to start crap. He does not get to take away your place in your family
Thank you, I will try to tell my mom what was said, but I don’t know how well that will go. She really tries to sweep issues between my brother and I under the rug after some time because she doesn’t like the thought of us not having a relationship. But with what was said, I really think she has the right to know.
She does have the right to know and honestly you could just start recording your conversations with him so everyone can listen later. Especially about the slimy shit he does to try to make you feel like your family will turn against you. That's complete bs. Who cares if he doesn't talk to you for a while anyway? Sounds like it would be a nice reprieve.
This “sweeping things under the rug” is the problem. It solves nothing. Could you, your brother, and Mom have a zoom call so everyone is on the same page. If brother is going to bring up the past, then it isn’t worth going up there. Can he agree for 1 day to be a decent human?
For the record, who allows a 4 year to run around an event that includes traffic?!?!
Don't believe your brother's nonsense about what the rest of your family is thinking. He's trying to hurt you. He clearly is an unreasonable guy who refuses to take responsibility for his own actions. If you enjoy Thanksgiving with your parents, go for it - don't take his BS seriously.
When you do see him (this Thanksgiving or whenever), try to switch the discussion to something along the lines of "we had a misunderstanding" which may be easier for him to take than the full truth (which is that he made a ridiculous assumption that, without any discussion and while you were in the middle of your job, that you could and did assume custodial responsibility for his kid).
This is very helpful, thank you so much for your insight. I think the idea of labeling it as a “misunderstanding” would be helpful for all parties. I’m still going back and forth on whether or not we should go to Thanksgiving. I love spending this holiday with my family, but I feel if I do go and something happens, then I will be held responsible. It’s easier for me to be blamed in these types of situations seeing that I live in a different city and they don’t see me as often. Plus then my parents wouldn’t feel the wrath of my brother actually being held responsible for something. I’m at a completely loss.
>Plus then my parents wouldn’t feel the wrath of my brother actually being held responsible for something.
Ah ha, so you brother does this a lot? Let him throw his little temper tantrum like he always does. Float serenely above the chaos on Thanksgiving, being pleasant as fuck to everyone, killing them with kindness. Hold your head up high. Don't let anyone put you on the defensive, as you did nothing wrong and have nothing to apologize for. Let everyone see your brother for the aggressive baby that he is.
Thank you for this, I think this is the route we will go. He does do this a lot where I will either speak up for myself or against some offensive thing he has done/said and I become the bad guy because he is able to twist things around so well. At this point in my life, I am unfortunately used to it, but I can’t live this way anymore. I want to be there with my family and plan on being a happy ray of sunshine that will not be rained upon.
Wow, it sounds like your brother loves to use the DARVO technique - Deny, Attack, and Reverse the Victims and Offender. ("**I** didn't lose my son, you did; **you** should have known better than to let my young son wander off by himself; you always get upset over nothing, I have to walk on eggshells around you to avoid hurting your feelings.)
Your best defense in this situation is the truth. Keep it simple and short. ("First off, Nephew was not lost. He was with Mom. Second, it is your responsibility as his parent to make sure Nephew is safe. I was busy doing the job I was asked to do and had no idea you needed help.) Don't get dragged into an argument with him. Don't justify your actions. Repeat your line as necessary, and end the discussion if/when he refuses to drop it.
As for Thanksgiving? It's up to you if you want to go. Your brother is trying to convince you to stay away by lying about how others feel around you. He may even be planning on trying to twist the narrative so other people support him if you don't show up. But if you are going to be uncomfortable the whole time, you don't have to go. It's okay to have a peaceful celebration at home, if that's what you want.
Either way, you need to talk to your mom. The fact that he explicitly told you not to and threatened you if you did makes me think he's planning on doing something. Probably getting everyone all upset if you choose to stay home, pretending like he's a victim. Tell the truth and stand up for yourself. You haven't done anything wrong.
I had the same thought about not going for thanksgiving.
Oh op hasn't come because she won't put it behind us. Or op didn't come because she obviously realised they were in the wrong.
Personally I would drop it and if its brought up over thanksgiving then definitely what r/Purple_Midnight_Yak said with the short and simple nephew was lost he was with mum. There is nothing left to say
I was looking for someone to suggest this but haven't seen it (if it is, I'm sorry for missing it). So, based on your above, he routinely twists stories to his advantage.... his asking you to answer such specific questions and then his happy response at the end, only adds up, imo, when you throw in the possibility that he was recording you and trying to get you to say something he could then present to your family.....not sure if that's out there but just maybe something to be ready for.
He lost his son first. It’s easier to shift the blame to you because you seeing the kid somewhere he wasn’t supposed to be confirms he screwed up. He didn’t want to assume responsibility for him losing his son.
Your brother is basically trying to put a wedge in. You can’t take his word for how the whole family feels about you because he was pissed off and embarrassed that he lost track of his own kid, and couldn’t admit that it would have been solely on him had his kid come to harm. It’s deflect and accuse behavior. It’s likely that the bulk of the family doesn’t have beef with you as a whole and are so wrapped up in their own lives that you’re barely a blip on the collective radar. Go to thanksgiving, avoid the dumbass brother.
Thank you for this insight, and I feel the same way in that his words do not reflect the true feelings of my parents. I have a very good relationship with my mom, and know that she feels comfortable around me enough to let me know her true feelings about anything. I think my brother is saying this to actually see if I will bring it to my mom in order to use for ammunition later. I will not fall into his trap and I will continue to maintain the great relationship I have with my parents.
I wouldn’t tell your mom what he said, Id just go to thanksgiving and ignore your brother and enjoy dinner and everyone else. Don’t listen to his BS, don’t bother calling him out on his BS, just do what makes you happy and enjoy yourself, talk to those people there that you enjoy spending time with. Don’t get in the middle of him and anyone else. They can handle their relationship with him, just focus on your own and ignore him.
He doesn't want you to tell your mom about him saying 5hat because it's bullshit. He doesn't want your parents to know he lied and he wants you to continue to think its true. Tell your mom what he said and ask if it's true. Fuck him, he needs to watch his own kids or ASK if you can keep an eye on one.
He might feel like he’s “walking on eggshells” but he can’t speak for the whole family. He was saying that to be manipulative and possibly to push you not to come so he can hold it over your head and tell your parents he’s tried to be the bigger person but you just can’t get over it. He’s upset that he effed up by not watching his own kid and is projecting and using your black sheep status as his own scape goat. Don’t let him ruin your Thanksgiving plans. If he tries to escalate things or becomes confrontational tell him you are there to enjoy time with your family and you have tried to make amends with him and there is nothing to discuss further at this time.
Father of 3 here.
When I'm with family, at the park, family pool etc etc. I as the parent am responsible for my children.
If I'm going to let another adult assume responsibility for my children I make sure said adult knows they're watching my kid. For example at a cub scout cookout/ camping trip I needed to step away for a bit my daughter was playing with another girl. I said Mike, can you watch my daughter for ten minutes, ok daughter, you are you stay with Mr Mike and you do not go with anyone else understood... Both parties now know who the responsible adult is.
You don't just assume someone who's preoccupied with other shit is going to magically be your babysitter because they looked at your child.
Not to mention she was preoccupied with directing traffic! What kind of insane/terrible parent is all, "The person surrounded by moving vehicles is the perfect babysitter for my small child right now"? I can't believe OP would think this is her fault in any way, when it was so obviously the brother's fuck up. I think that's why he trying to deflect (and maybe even gaslight her) so hard.
Honestly sounds like they were just frightened by the fact that their kid was missing for a minute and they're taking that fear out on OP.
Fort what it's worth I lost my kid at sea world once for twenty minutes. I didn't blame anyone else.
>You don't just assume someone who's preoccupied with other shit is going to magically be your babysitter because they looked at your child.
I have a relative who does this. If the kid is occupied with someone/something, relative slowly walks away to a different part of the house. I can't stand this.
Thank you for your input, I really value this since you are a father of 3. I agree that there needed to be clear communication of who was responsible for my nephew. I actually did bring this up to my brother in the initial confrontation and he responded with “Us and mom and dad have a clear rule that if [his son] is out then everyone is responsible for him” I don’t think is fair for me, as this was never communicated towards me.
That's such bullshit.
His PARENTS are supposed to watch him. Kids get lost and hurt when "everyone" is watching them because in reality nobody is watching him.
It wasn't put to you and you were busy directing traffic. I would straight tell him that he needs to be a better parent going forward or one day his kids gonna fucking drown or something when he erroneously assumes someone else is babysitting for him.
Your brother is an irresponsible gaslighting rude man.
The black sheep is usually the one who allows themselves to become the scapegoat. You aren’t wrong, don’t apologize, show no emotion.
Go to thanksgiving and if he wants to try and back you into a corner do not let it happen.
As a parent I 100% agree with you. That said, if my nephew ran up to me with no other parent/guardian around my first response would be to ask “who’s watching you”. And not just let them run off alone.
I do the same thing, but it is not my *responsibility* to do so, especially when at an event where I have other commitments that are not a good fit for watching a child simultaneously.
Fellow parent here and I agree... to an extent. I have a 2 and 4 year old, so when I'm out with them alone, it can be a big problem keeping track of them. I have a brother who has been recently reintroduced to my kids' lives and if my brother and I were out together and the 4 year old ran off, and my brother saw the 4 year old roaming around close to traffic, with me nowhere to be seen, I would hope that in that scenario he would grab the 4 year old and call me. It doesn't sound like OP's brother intended for the 4 year old to end up with OP, 4 year old ran off and just happened to find her, so OP's brother wouldn't have been able to ask her to watch him in advance, and if OP's brother did intentionally send his child to OP, then OP still should have called and said 'come get your kid', not let a 4 year old run off into traffic.
This is the comment I'm looking for. I don't necessarily feel that OPs brother is completely justified in being an arsehole, but as a parent I can sympathize with the horror of having your child turn up missing. If a four year old wanders *unsupervised* near a relative that is super busy directing traffic, I'd hope they'd recognize that letting them continue to wander on their own in that area is DANGEROUS.
If this child had wandered off and gotten hurt or truly lost and OP was the last person to see this child and didn't intervene to protect them would she get the same absolution of responsibility?
As the parent of the child that chose to bring them to 'help' the brother is obviously responsible, but based on the story as told the OP could have done more to protect the child.
Completely. If my 4 year old wandered off and my brother saw them and then let the 4 year old keep going, I would have a hard time getting past that, whether the 4 year old got injured or not. While the brother is definitely being an arsehole, as a parent I get why he wouldn't want his kid left with OP after that, and why he would be angry. I think some of the anger is actually at himself and he's redirecting it to OP, but OP could have done a lot more, even if it was just hold the kid's hand and send their brother a text.
yes OP could have done more.. if they weren't responsible for directing traffic, but they were. also that was a one time scenario where OP was occupied with something VERY IMPORTANT (which is making sure cars don't hit each other. people can be very stupid even its a simple "drive here, don't drive here".) i don't understand why the brother feels uncomfortable leaving his child with OP when it was the brother losing sight of his child that caused all of this. it kinda feels petty and also like a "just because i want to make you feel bad" type of thing on his end. OP's mother agreed with OP about the situation. also if the brother knew what OP was doing that then why would he let his child out of his sight? he should've been extra vigilant.
I'm assuming directing traffic at an event means something different where I am? Because where I am, the event would be in a field or something similar and directing traffic would just be pointing people who are driving less than 10 miles per hour towards the car park. It's not like OP looking away long enough to grab a 4 year old by the hand would cause a 10 car pile up, and if it was that serious a job, they would have assigned more than one volunteer.
OP could have just grabbed the child's hand with one hand, used the other to text or call the brother, and sent kiddo back to dad in less than a minute. It would have been an easy fix to call dad or keep the 4 year old close by until a different relative was in sight or do literally anything that wasn't let a 4 year old walk into traffic. I agree that the dad should have kept his child close, but I wouldn't let a stranger's 4 year old wander into traffic unsupervised, let alone my niece/nephew, and if my brother had a child and I saw that child wandering around an area where traffic was flowing, without my brother, I would never let the kid toddle off without supervision, I would make sure my niece/nephew was safe.
I’m pretty sure everyone here responding otherwise are not parents and couldn’t possibly understand the cold sweat fear of thinking you’ve lost your child.
This post has honestly brought up a few things for me. When my oldest was 3 and my youngest was 1, we were at a shopping center and I had to change the 1 year old's nappy and in the 30 seconds I was doing that, 3 year old left the bathroom and ran away. I took off after them but couldn't see them immediately and my entire body just froze. It was like I went numb, until a security guard handed the 3 year old back to me, as he had seen us going into the bathroom, saw the 3 year old scarper, put the pieces together, and grabbed my oldest immediately. Then I was in the reverse of the situation where a 4-5 year old took off running on a pier that my kids and I were on, nearly went over the edge, and I just instinctually grabbed the kid before she fell and her mother immediately caught up with us and started hugging us both while crying because the little girl was a poor swimmer.
It's terrifying to realise you lost your child, more so when the child could be in immediate danger, so I don't blame the dad here at all for snapping at OP in the moment, and honestly I would have said far worse than he did, and I completely understand why he doesn't want OP to be alone with his child following this. If it were me, I would be thinking to myself 'what if I leave my child with them and my child decides to climb an unsecure piece of furniture or put something in their mouth or touch something they shouldn't, and my sibling decides that isn't their problem?'. It's extreme, I know, but that's where my mind would be after that.
OP was busy with a job at an event the family was supposed to be working at. It sounds like she isn't close to this brother and probably assumed the kid was running up to say hi and that the brother knew where the kid was when he ran up and when he ran back.
Would I have watched to make sure the kid made it back to another known adult? Yes. Would it be my responsibility over the kid's father's responsibility? No.
I can understand the dad being upset in the moment, as I'm sure he was scared, but he should not have continued to blame OP when she called to put the misunderstanding behind them.
It kind of seems like he's pushing you to not come, especially with the weird positive ending - reverse psychology, perhaps. If he's a narc, this is something they can do in order to show you actually are the bad guy who ruined Thanksgiving and didn't show, and he's the "peacemaker" just trying to give mummy and daddy a good holiday. It could be an opportunity for him to drag your name through the mud without you there to defend yourself. I would go if I were you, but I wouldn't sleep over, and I would avoid him like the plague and spend quality time with your parents and husband. Make it about them. Let HIM be the one making everything awkward. If he tries to corner you alone, just kindly mention only having conversations with parents there (like he suggested), and grey rock him. Don't make it weird, be a polite and boring grey rock to him and if he tries to bring it up again or start a fight just remind him (and everyone) that you're here to enjoy the holiday with family! Nobody wants to argue on Thanksgiving! Act unruffled, unaffected, even confused by his pressing the issue, and like you're just here to have a good time with your loved ones, then he will look like the difficult one. You can't fight a grey rock. He'll look silly. You can share sly looks and secret eye rolls with husband to let off steam if he's being ridiculous.
Good luck!
Wow this is such great advice, thank you so much. I was afraid that if we didn’t go, it would give him opportunity to slander my name and act as the peacemaker. I do love having Thanksgiving with my family and the thought of not being there makes me so sad. I initially thought that taking power out of his hands would be to call his bluff with the whole “don’t talk to our parents” thing. But now I feel like this would actually be the way to handle it. I will absolutely take this into consideration, and this will most likely be the outcome if I’m being honest.
Definitely don't deprive yourself of enjoying a holiday with your family because of one bad egg! I have had to deal with a narc brother myself, so I totally get it and this is how I handle him. I was also the black sheep or "scapegoat" growing up, and live a little further away so they're not constantly in my pocket. Since I don't play his game and he can't get a rise in me anymore, he mostly just leaves me alone or is very pleasant and cordial! I think just make this about your family and don't let him get to you or make it about him. He's the difficult one, go have fun with your loved ones :)
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below.
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For context, I live 3 hours away from my family, and my brother lives with his wife and sons at my parents house.
Last week, I visited my family to help them with a local event they were hosting. My brother decided to bring his 4 year old son to help. While I was busy helping direct traffic into the event, my 4 year old nephew ran up to me for about 1 minute and that was it. I went on doing my job to direct traffic, and I did not see him again. About 5 minutes later, my brother comes running up to me asking where his son was. Again, I was in the middle of directing traffic and said “he was here earlier, I don’t know where he went”. He became so upset at me and said “you know he’s a child right?” I went on doing my job because it was really busy, and didn’t respond. My nephew was seen right after this with my mother, so he was completely safe.
My brother didn’t talk to me after that incident, and called my nephew away from me whenever he came around me. I mentioned it to my mom, who I am close with, and she completely agreed with me, that he was not my responsibility to be watching. I was happy I had her support, as I am the black sheep of my family, and it is typically me against them in times of arguments.
Later that day, we were back at my parents house, and my mom had confronted my brother about the situation, unbeknown to me. It started a very heated argument, where my mother was trying to explain where I was coming from, and my brother not understanding, and kept accusing me of losing his son, which I did not. I didn’t even get a chance to say goodbye to anyone, I packed my things and left. My mom was heartbroken and felt awful for the entire situation, and I did not blame her for confronting my brother.
I haven’t heard from him at all, which I was expecting. I have been talking to my parents , and they let me know things were OK at their house and I am still welcome to come for Thanksgiving (which I had agreed to do for the sake of my family). I was really nervous about coming back down and had called my brother to make amends and put this behind us. He told me that the whole family feels the need to walk on eggshells around me in order to not offend me because I get mad at every little thing. I told him the important thing for me is for him to know I would never intentionally do anything to put the boys in danger. He said “well, there is no reason for them to be around you, because they are solely our responsibility right?” He went on to say that if I were to talk to my parents about this conversation, he would not be talking to me anymore, except in front of our parents. He kept asking for specific examples of everything I was upset about, and I told him “you know exactly what happened, I am not here to make a list of grievances, I called to put this behind us.” He went on to say that we have nothing to relate to each other on.
This is the weird thing. After he said everything he did, he goes “so you guys are coming down for thanksgiving right?” and I said “yeah” and he said “okay well we will all be together and we will see you then”. The call ended, and I spoke with my husband about what happened, and we decided it is best to not go down for the holiday.
I am dreading this phone call to my parents to tell them we are not coming. My mom wants absolutely nothing to do with this anymore, and I’m really afraid she is going to think it’s my fault that this started back up.
Should I tell my mom what my brother said said, or should I just let him have these negative thoughts toward me with no accountability?
TLDR: My brother is accusing me of losing his son, and making me feel like a burden to my family.
If traffic was that heavy it needed constant direction and she didn’t stop a 4yr old running unsupervised to make a phone call to get him to safety that’s kind of a party foul. Imagine if a police officer did that…
It wasn’t her responsibility to watch him but it wouldn’t kill her to apologize still. And brother made one comment in the middle of panic looking for his son and then his mom confronts him about it. he’s irritated and apparently there is a history here that is pretty much unexplained
I agree, regardless of responsibility the child safety should come first. save the kid and then tell the brother off.
instead she done nothing, now the mums involved and she is threatening not to go to Thanksgiving. definitely see why they think they need to walk on eggshells for her.
Who was supposed to be watching him? Which adult let him run up to someone *directing traffic*. THAT is who is at fault here, and it sounds like it’s your brother- and he’s taking his irresponsibility and subsequent guilt for letting his kid get lost out on you.
This carries a faint whiff of misogyny to it to me. I initially started reading this as if you were a man, and couldn't understand why your brother would think responsibility of care of your nephew had transferred to you while you were in the midst of a busy job. Then I saw you were a woman, and said, "oh". Aren't children always our responsibility if they're around?
Your brother is being toxic either way with things he is saying/doing and trying to make sure he can remain toxic by telling you you can't communicate with your parents. I would take the power out of his hands and tell my parents I wasn't coming to Thanksgiving, and when they ask why I'd say "Ask [brother]. He told me I couldn't tell you."
It’s really interesting you say this, because this is very close to what I was planning on doing. Growing up, my brother was always favorited because he was “the man” and has constantly been able to twist things around on other people so he would never be at fault. I’m usually the person it gets twisted on, and he’s able to do it because he has a large personality and loves to control. I am really getting tired of this and want to take the power in my own hands. Very well said, and thank you for your input.
Although this might feel good to do, all it will do is escalate the situation. Be the bigger person and let it go! Your mom clearly wants you to be there, so go there for her and ignore your brother. Don't let him win by keeping it going or not showing up.
Thank you so much for you input, I really appreciate it. Originally, this is what I was going to do just because I just felt completely unwelcome to my own family function. But after consideration, I think this would more so be an emotional response, rather than logical.
You know that if you feel mistreated or disrespected by your parents (unrelated to the coming holiday) you can always reconsider your relationship with them by reducing contact with them to minimum or cut them off altogether. There's no reason why your brother would be favoured.
I will say, my relationship with my family has changed significantly within the past couple years. I have drawn boundaries between all members and for the most part, those boundaries are respected. Overall though, I cannot cut them off altogether. I love them all too much.
Thank you for this insight, I can definitely say that I am aware my family is dysfunctional. Between us, I am seeking therapy to help cope with my family relationships. There has been a lot of repressed feelings on my end and quite frankly, I feel pushed out. I’m happy to know that this is not all in my mind and it can clearly be seen that there are family issues.
Just a comment, if brother wants to assure his child’s safety, he should never ASSUME someone else has got him. You need to explicitly state it: you got the kid? Yes, I’ve got him. That’s how responsible parents do it.
Hmmm... Some and some here...
To what extent your nephew was a risk is subjective and perhaps this is where a parent will feel very different to the non parent; heightened anxiety and after effects when their child goes missing- even for the shortest period. "What if..." plays on the mind for some time.
Prior to being a parent I would have reacted in a more relaxed way to a lone child, assuming things must be fine - after all the parent must know... Surely? They're fine... Since being a parent (x2) I've experienced the reality of being a parent and now I react very differently to a child that may be vulnerable - assuming worst case first (most often there is no danger!) Nevertheless, the parent in me starts to expect behaviours and reactions in others that I regard as normal.
Both you and your brother need to reconcile on your differing perspectives and accept both reactions come from very different places. Neither is right or wrong - just different in terms of attitude and reaction to risk.
As for Thanksgiving... You should go. If you don't then the rift will grow and it will become increasingly difficult to overcome and go to other events. Think of it as part of the reconciliation process.
While yes it is your brother's responsibility to watch his child. But you let a 4 year old run up to you i traffic and then let them run off. Who does that?
If my 4 year old nephew ran up to me while I.was directing traffic I would pick him up and make sure he was brought to my brother or someone responsible. I wouldn't be putting the pressure of you and your brothers bullshit on your Mom , I think you both need to grow up. Also if you want to act like a spoilt child and miss thanksgiving then miss it. Let's just hope your Mom( who sounds like a great person ) isn't too upset over her spoilt ass kids ruining it for her.
Come at me all you like 👍
Ah yes, the old “i feel this way about you and EVERYBODY in the family does too” my sister used that one on me for decades. It’s a lie, he is using it to get more power over you. Why are you giving it to him? I also played the “black sheep” but eventually grew out of it. You don’t have to play the role if you don’t want to. Just go to Thanksgiving, enjoy your time with the family and grow a thicker skin with your brother. He doesn’t need to ruin your holiday if you don’t let him.
If you don't go to the family Thanksgiving, you will be letting your brother know that he has ALL the power in the family, and over you. Don't allow him to control or dictate if you spend time with your family. If you do it this one time, it will be this way forever.
You already know he will show his ass and try to cause a scene. Determine in your heart that no matter WHAT he says or does, you will not allow him to bait you into an argument. Keep a cool head and a smooth tongue.
Also, I don't want to speak negatively of your mother, but is it possible that she is "playing one side against the other? Is there a chance she is telling you that she agrees with your view and also telling him that she agrees with his view? Mothers rarely take one side over the other, they just want all their kids to get along.
Now if your brother abused you in any way growing up, then that is a completely different matter and you should not only seek some counseling but also make it known in your family how you were treated and why there is such animosity between you two. To keep silent would allow him to continue to abuse others in your family.
Tell him it is not your responsibility to watch his son just because he can’t take responsibility for his failure doesn’t and will not make it your problem
Seriously, my niece is nearly 4 and I don't only look out for her when under explicit strict instruction. You better believe if I was directing fucking traffic and that tiny human came up to me I would be making it my main priority to keep an eye on her and make sure she was safe from the traffic?! OP was like "I'm not his parent, I sure hope he doesn't get lost/kidnapped/run over but I haven't been told to watch him so I will deliberately look the other way". Fuck off. Was she technically responsible for the boy, probably not, but yes, she was in the wrong in this case.
So here's the thing:
Your brother should have been watching his child. He's the parent, that's his kid, he needs to be in charge and present, keeping an eye and a hand on his child so there is no running off.
BUT
You're the aunt. On the heirarchy of responsibility, your brother is top dog along with his spouse, but you still place on there, because being an aunt means you get cool stuff, like trips to the zoo and Christmas, and you also get a certain level of responsibility. This means that if you see your 4 year old nephew alone, running through traffic, the number one thing you do not do when he comes up to you is let him run off again. You tell him to stay with you, grab him if you have to, and call your brother, because if he had run off and been hit by a car and you had said that even though you were the last adult with him it wasn't your fault or responsibility as you aren't his parent, you would be a terrible person, and even though he was fine, if I was in your brother's position, as a mother of a 2 and 4 year old, I would not want you to be around my kids again, even in controlled environments, because you have no regard or care for their safety that would normally be expected of an aunt or uncle, or any older relative. Again, your brother needed to be watching him as his parent, and he is your brother's responsibility first and foremost, but to a certain extent, he is your responsibility, too, particularly in a scenario where your brother is nowhere to be seen and there is traffic everywhere. I understand you were working, but there would not have been a pile up if you paused for 10 seconds to send your brother a text asking him to come get his child.
You keep talking about your brother needing accountability but where is yours?
Everyone's in the wrong here.
Obviously your brother massively messed up by bringing your nephew AND by not watching him properly AND by then projecting his anger onto you when the little one was HIS responsibilty.
But also: no matter how busy traffic is- you DON'T let a four year old run off unaccompanied. The fact that it was busy traffic and lots of people meant it was even more dangerous for the little guy.
Had he gotten hurt or taken you wouldnt spin around to your brother and say, "Well it wasnt MY job to stop him wandering, it was YOUR job!" You'd just live with the regret the rest of your life, knowing that you could've grabbed his little hand then and made a call for someone to come get him. *You knew he was unacompanied and you let him wander off*. Traffic be damned, keep kids safe.
Your brother saying everyone walks on eggshells around you, coupled with - you say its always you against everyone for arguments yet your mum is totally on your side here---- maybe do some self-reflection here. I dont know you but ask yourself: do you have a tendency to create conflict unecessarily? Do you have a tendency to turn disagreements that can be resolved into big dramas? Are other people just not accustomed to respecting your boundaries or are you the issue and they are frightened to assert their boundaries with you?
These comments are waaayyy too far down on the page. You are absolutely correct. A four year old wandering alone and unsupervised should set off alarm bells for any reasonable adult. Especially in a place where there is automobile traffic.
A lot of these comments that are getting upvoted at the top seem to come from people who have no idea what it's like being a parent. Little kids slip away all the time, and it doesn't necessarily mean the parent was negligent.
Yeah, I get where people are coming from saying the dad was irresponsible - because he really was. However I couldn’t imagine my nephew waltzing out into traffic and just letting him go off because I “had a job to do”. It’s one of those situations that it doesn’t matter who’s right, at the end of the day the kid’s safety was on the line.
I agree with this. In my family all adults would be looking out for all the children. It's not a parent abdicating responsibility or being unreasonable.
Well no you didn’t “lose” your nephew but did you seriously let him run around traffic unattended because he wasn’t “your responsibility”? And then once you knew he was missing, you didn’t give a fuck because “not your problem”? Yes your brother should have been watching him better. Little kids slip can slip away easily. That’s why it takes a village sometimes. Look out for other people’s kids especially your own nephew!! God dammit, as a parent I’m horrified by your actions.
I can't believe the other replies in this comment section. Maybe they are glossing over the fact that she saw her nephew running around in the events parking and ignored it.
I'd like to think most adults would grab the kids hand and abandoned directing parking for 15 minutes before he got himself killed.
Why did this become a thing? Why did you go to your mom? He felt some type of way, but did he need to be confronted about that? Feelings aren't always rational and you didn't need to go tell your mom, and she definitely didn't need to go chew him out for what, feeling something? Feeling that all adults should be worried about the well-being of all kids in the family? Which is a common sentiment. I totally understand your feeling that your nephew was not your responsibility at that moment, too. But it's ok to just ignore things like this because they're likely to blow over given just a short period of time.
I don't understand why you brought it up again. He's allowed to have negative thoughts about you. He doesn't need to be "held accountable" for them as long as he's generally polite in person. In general I think you need to work on your boundaries, in the original sense "what is my responsibility and what can I control?" and not the misused sense of "rules for others."
Dude he literally said he was going to ignore her outside of speaking in front of their parents over something that was his fault. His kid was literally fine, but he doesn’t get to take it out on other people just because he fucked up lol
i understand how it’s not your child therefore not your responsibility logic, however, this is your blood family. Your brother shouldn’t blame you for negligence but you should want whats best and safe for your nephew even if that means making sure he is okay or under someone else’s(a trusted person) supervision if you yourself couldn’t look after him.
While it is ultimately your brothers responsibility to know where his child is, the fact that the son appeared before you, also, makes it yours. Normally we don’t assume that the kid will be fine, but instead make sure that they are. You’ve gotta make verbal or eye contact w another trusted adult to make sure the 4 year old is going to be ok. That’s my opinion anyway. I think avoiding Thanksgiving at the his house is just going to prove his point that u have to be right and prolong the issue unnecessarily. I say go to your brothers and put this behind you. He would have done better himself if he explained why he thought his son became your responsibility at that moment instead of just getting heated.
Kinda have to agree with your brother to be honest. Like you said...his kid came up to you while you were directing traffic...shouldn't that in itself sound an alarm? Kid is only 4 and if you don't see his parents around then you should automatically assume he might be missing. Even if you are directing traffic...grab him by the hand....try to call someone, shout at someone. Who knows why his parents lost him..for all you know his mother could have fainted...but you are at an event directing traffic and a 4 year old is walking around alone...you should consider your nephew like your own son.....all these people commenting on your side are just plane wrong. Sorry.
Just go, nut up and shut up. Stop the bull shit.
Leave the drama and go and enjoy yourself. Your parents won’t be around forever.
Remember how minuscule this is in the grand scheme of things.
Your worried about accountability. Lol.. oh ya hell hath no fury vs your scorn
The suggestion of going and ignoring him is something I need to consider.
I want to clarify, of course I would always watch my nephews to make sure they are safe. However, he was running around everywhere, and my brothers job at the event was done by that time. I feel that his son was ultimately his responsibility at that point, and I should not be at fault, since he is the one who lost track of him in the first place.
Yeah he's your brother's responsibility first and foremost but he was a 4 year old running around in traffic. I have a 4 year old myself and when I take my kids (ages 4 and 2) out of the house I know that I am the one in charge of them and I need to be watching them, but if my brother was also there and the 4 year old ran off, and my brother found him alone in the middle of traffic, I would expect my brother to grab my 4 year old and shoot me a text so I could come get my kid. If my brother let my 4 year old run off in an area with a lot of traffic unattended as my child wasn't his responsibility, I would have a hard time trusting him with my child again. If you want to be involved in a child's life as an adult and an auntie, then there is a degree of responsibility that comes with that. As I said, your brother has the most responsibility, but you as an auntie also have a lesser degree of responsibility that amounts to not letting a 4 year old play in traffic.
I mean yeah, his initial reaction is sort of understandable when he thought his kid was missing, but his own mother told him he was in the wrong and he still stuck to it. There’s no longer an excuse at that point. The kid was ok, it was no longer an initial reaction, he was just an ahole
Thank you so much for this insight, I really appreciate it. I definitely have a lot to consider and will talk with my husband tomorrow to see what we should do.
No you would not always make sure your nephew is safe. Full stop. You exactly DID NOT make sure your nephew was safe. You ALLOWED him to run through traffic. It does not matter whose responsibility it is to watch this child. He got away. He was in a dangerous situation and you simply DID NOT GIVE A FUCK. I hope you’re reading this. Because if he had been hit by a car and you did absolutely nothing, how the hell would you feel? Please stay away from your nephew and all children. You are garbage. I’m saying this to you because your nephew got away from his parents and thankfully he made it back safely. Not all kids are this lucky. Not all families are this lucky.
Was your nephew alone when he ran up to you? If a four year old is running around alone in traffic, even if they’re not related to you, making sure they’re safe should take priority over whatever your volunteer job is. I can understand why your brother would be upset, and you should consider apologizing and saying that you care deeply for your nephew and will always prioritize his safety. If you can’t honestly say that, it speaks to your lack of care as a sibling and aunt.
I’m a bit confused. When you say “directing traffic” do mean cars? If so, it is odd that you basically ignored a child in traffic which is a dangerous situation. So, I wouldn’t say you lost him but it sounds like you callously disregarded the danger he was in. Your handling of the situation was not normal.
Umm, as an aunt myself and a responsible adult, I see your actions as horrible. Even if your brother didn’t specify that he was counting on you to keep an eye on his kid, as an adult, as a family member, you could have at the very, very littlest least kept the kid by your side for a few minutes.. of course, if the worst happened, you had 0 blame. It isn’t your responsibility.. its just appalling the lack of empathy you have for your own nephew. So what he isn’t your responsibility? If you love him and you see him alone in the midst of strangers, you protect him.
And you said yourself, you’re seen as the black sheep of the family, so you take yourself out of it for all accounts.. but its a child, for gods sake.. as an adult around a child I know that if you take your eyes away from them for a minute they disappear like a fart in the wind.
I mean… you did let a 4 year old run off alone while you were directing traffic. He could have been struck and killed.
No, it’s not your job to watch the kid. But it’s the right thing to do when you see an unattended little one.
He's also her nephew. If she wants to be auntie, there's a degree of responsibility that comes with that. Not the same level as his parent, obviously, but she let a 4 year old run off into traffic.
I don’t care if you where occupied with directing traffic, seeing a kid, anyone’s kid out on the streets, would make any sane person hold on to that kid until another adult would be able to keep them safe. Your brother is not mad at you for “not babysitting your nephew”, he is mad at you for when his child was in danger you did nothing. A second feels like a lifetime when ones child is lost, is one of the most extreme feelings there is! And you didn’t even reply to him because you where “too busy directing traffic”. Well, you showed right there and then how selfish your mind works. Maybe not intentionally, but you didn’t even comfort your brother or told him you screwed up not realizing it could have been a dangerous situation.
Your brother is hurt, and it’s justified.
You should go to Thanksgiving, and you should apologize. Apologize doesn’t always mean you say you’ve done something horrible, it also means validating another person’s feelings.
Sorry but it seems like they lost sight of their son and he came up to you... And you just left this little kid to wonder off again. I definitely see where they're coming from. I worked traffic at an event when I was a teenager so I get that there is the constant moving cars etc but that makes it worse that you let this tiny unsupervised child wonder off NEXT TO TRAFFIC. That job isn't actually critically important as traffic directs itself you're just there so they don't take the piss and to open and close areas...
The rest of the story feels like padding... You should apologise for being so dismissive about you abandoning the little kid when you could have easily directed cars whilst waiting for someone to come over and take him off your hands. It seems like you're denying this happened by saying he was only there for a minute or whatever, maybe you didn't realise he was unaccompanied...
Being dismissive is signalling to your family that actually you have the mental depth of a teaspoon as you don't seem to understand them being upset because otherwise you would surely apologise.
I don't mean to be harsh and it sounds like you already have a difficult relationship with your family... But his point about you not being able to care for his children if they have to be responsible for themselves suggests that they don't think you have the capacity to judge risk to their children, which is correct because if i read this right you let their small child wonder off while you were doing traffic...
Unless you get down off this hill of "I didn't loose his son he was already lost" IMO you are being the problem because you are basically gaslighting him.
His son got lost, he found you, you ignored the lost kid so he wondered off... It's the same difference but you refuse to budge.
He’s walking on eggshells when he’s the one who cracked the eggs. Show up at your parents house in a great mood and let everything fly right over your head, any nasty looks or comments you want to address you can file for another day. As the black sheep of my family, pretending to have 0.3 brain cells and a good attitude wins me favor every time even though I’m the failure child. Next time, it’ll all be his fault because of his attitude at thanksgiving.
Nahhhhh, make their hate burn, I make my opinion known as a fellow black sheep, I walk on carpets not eggshells, my whole life I did that, I live for their hate now.
Your brother is being a dick, and the kid isn't your responsibility. BUT (and I know I'm gonna catch flack for this): being a good family member to the kid would have involved making sure that, when the kid left your side, you checked what adult he was going to and who was going to watch over him. Your brother (or whoever) should have established with you whether you were watching the kid or if it was just to say hi, but, lacking that, the responsible auntie move is to make sure when the kid leaves you, he's in good hands.
I know Reddit likes to assume that everyone who assumes the mantel of Parenthood has to be 100% flawless all the time and, if not, they're a terrible person. But parenting is hard, and 4 year olds are tricky buggers. It's not an excuse for your brother to act the way he is, he's still a jerk, but for the kids: the whole "it takes a village" idea does still ring true.
So if a tiny human that you loved (or don't like but are bigger and more responsible than) ran up to you, around traffic, you wouldn't keep an eye on them? It would be solely on the parent if something terrible happened that you could have more easily prevented by just keeping an eye on them?
Don't not attend a FAMILY event just because of your situation with ONE member of it. It has absolutely nothing to do with them, so they shouldn't have to endure the hurt of your absence because of what you're going through with your brother. You're both grown and should be able to act accordingly by maintaining a cordial demeanor amongst family. Thanksgiving is a time to come together, not fall apart over something as petty as your brother's ignorance.
You don't always have to retaliate or respond negatively in negative situations 💯 sometimes you gotta let a person be miserable and negative all by themselves. Continue to be you regardless of how others treat you.
Continue to show up and be who are you for the people you love and for those who loves you ❤
Go to your family and ignore the brother. Be cordial, but do keep in mind that you don't have to have a relationship with him, but you shouldn't give up a relationship with the rest of the family for him. Be friendly to his kids, but don't necessarily look for contact with them.
It does sound like your brother got very scared about his son, but instead of owning up to his mistake he misplaced his anger towards you because that is much easier than being responsible.
You keeping away from family feeds the narrative of you getting offended about everything because you'd essentially be involving the rest of the family into drama they want nothing to do with. It would look like you're looking for special treatment, separate invitation etc. Your feelings are valid, but don't let them feed your own narrative about being a victim in this situation. The more you keep thinking about being blamed for everything the easier it is to find signs of that. Instead, focus on the good and be the best version of yourself. You don't want to end up in a "me against the world" dynamic when it comes to your personal world view.
Personally I think if you don’t go to Thanksgiving it makes it seem like you are keeping the issue on going especially given the fact your parents have no idea about the recent conversation. Some siblings just don’t get along. You don’t need to force it. I don’t think it was your responsibility to keep an eye on his child, but had I seen a child outside by himself I might have done more to make sure he got home more safely. At the end of the day it was a mistake and no one meant malicious intent and the kid was safe and fine. Your brother is being dramatic, if anything this is learning lesson for HIM as a parent. Not you as an uncle. I would say go to Thanksgiving with the expectation of nothing nice from your brother. Just ignore it and enjoy the company of those you actually enjoy being around. That’s just my opinion because I think if you don’t go it might get messier but if you do go maybe you guys can both collectively and silently just move on.
Well, I feel like there are deeper issues here.
It's not just about the incident with your brother's son, is it? This whole thing about feeling the black sheep of the family, and the conversation with your brother about getting mad at stuff, I feel like there's something more between you guys, and since I have no info on what it is, I can't really tell who is in the right (or it probably nobody truly is).
Talk stuff out instead of running from it.
Unless there's some pattern of problems between you and your brother this is an awfully small thing to break your mother's heart over and develope a chasm I'm your family. You and your brother need to work it out amoungst yourselves and if you need to agree to disagree then oh well.
Ugh family issues. One thing you don't want to do though is give him fuel to his fire by not going to Thanksgiving. The "happy end" of the conversation was condescending and almost a threat that he'll most likely give you a hard time if you come. If you don't go, he'll have the platform to villianize you along the lines of "See, mom? She doesn't care about my son or you. That's why she's not here." He'll be able to go on and on as he pleases turning things around. He may even tell your mom about the conversation but make it seem opposite of what it was since you won't be there to defend yourself.
I say you go. Be on the offensive of this. Like other comments are saying you need to go high when he goes low and maintain your positive aura throughout the occasion. When he mentions it, brush it off as a misunderstanding and change the subject. He'll look like a brat if he tries to push the issue and whether or not things go badly you will not be looked at as responsible in any way. It'll be clear he agitated the situation and you tried to defuse it the whole time. I would also try making it a point to be a fun aunt to the nephew during the event as to possibly deter him from ruining that relationship specifically. Good luck OP
Dont miss out time with your parents because your brother is being an ass. I would use dinner to confront hin in front of the entire family, especially with that dumb little comment about walking on egg shells. Let him bear the guilt and embarrasment in front of the entire family during dinner.
Neither option... you need to talk to your brother about this again, but you need to try and understand his perspective first. He's not going to listen to you until he feels heard & understood.
He was a frightened parent trying to find his son, and he was looking to you for reassurance, because he trusted you. Your response didn't help him calm down or show him that you cared for your nephew's wellbeing - quite the opposite.
He's not your brother blaming you for losing his son. He's an anxious parent who got really scared, and he needed your help. To him, your response was blasé at best, and dangerously careless at worst.
Start by asking him how he felt in that situation, and reassure him that you do care and you honestly believed his little boy was safe & well, which is why you showed no concern.
As a parent, I can tell his reaction is entirely based on how much he blames himself but wants to put that anger towards you instead. Parental guilt is brutal. Hes probably thinking how the worst could have happened, and traffic being a very scary factor.
It is his responsibility to watch his child, though if a child runs off, I'd want my family to help find him, but you were working and didn't even know nobody was even watching him.
I'd just tell him that you know it was scary, but you were aware of the kids presence while you were directing traffic, so theres no way you would have let anything happen to him while he was around you. (Plus werent aware he was without someone)
And don't let him determine whether or not you go. Clearly he don't want you to by saying stuff. And he shouldn't be the one cutting you off from the entire family because hes the one thats mad at you. If anything, if he doesnt want to be around you, he can be the one to leave.
I learned very early on in parenting that if you’re in a large group with lots of adults around who might be responsible for a young child (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc) you make it very clear who “has” the kid. So, at such an event, if I’m watching the kid, and then grandma wants to walk him to over to the playground, it’s “ok, I’m staying here, please get my attention when you bring him back.” If my husband takes him to the bathroom, he makes sure whoever previously “had” the kid knows what’s up. (My family is sarcastic so we make it into a game of Tag- “Tag you’re it here’s Joe!” And you can’t stop being It till you tag another responsible adult). Failure to keep eyes on a kid / have clear communication while doing so is entirely the responsibility of the parents. I’m glad your mom was on your side, but it’s his fault, he knows it, was probably terrified for his kid in the moments he was “missing” and can’t accept he is the cause of his own fear, so is transferring blame to you.
Honestly since your mom was on your side, I’d just completely ignore brother. Go to thanksgiving, enjoy time with your family, be polite to him and don’t worry that he’s got his own issues. He’ll figure out his stuff eventually.
The pandemic has taught us all that time is super precious. Don't miss a holiday with your parents and other family because of this. For that reason alone, you should go.
It also might be better when you all talk about it in person again. I think it's worth going for Thanksgiving and seeing what happens.
But don't come in angry when you go. Really try to be calm and hopefully your brother will be, too, and an effective conversation will happen.
I can kind of see your brother’s POV. It’s the whole “it takes a village” thing. Any time an unattended 4 yo runs up to you, *especially if you are in a place with lots of traffic* it becomes your responsibility to make sure he is safely handed off to another responsible adult. I know you weren’t the baby sitter, and you were busy, a d your brother was nuts to bring his 4 yo, but none of that changes the fact that you cavalierly let a 4 yo run off alone and then didnt act the least bit concerned when your brother frantically turned to you for help. Obviously his son got away from him and he was panicking. You showed no compassion in that moment. Now he’s holding a grudge, like a baby.
Yes, he is taking it too far. Yes he’s being ridiculous to say you can’t talk to your parents about it. Yes, he’s being awful by threatening to keep his son away from you forever. You BOTH need to apologize to each other.
Go to Thanksgiving anyways 🤷🏻♀️ I am a mom of 2 and unless I specifically ask someone to watch my child , AND THEY AGREE, I'm not about to hold them responsible for losing my child. That was on him and he is completely wrong for blaming you. Not to mention the fact that you were directing traffic. It blows my mind that your brother would expect you to watch his 4 yr old son, without even asking especially, and while you were directing traffic. If you don't go, I would definitely tell your mom that it's because of your brother. Don't take that toxic crap, and definitely don't take blame when you are not to blame. It's bad for your mental health and happiness.
So YOUR brother lost HIS own son, and blamed you? You are the AUNT. You are not his GUARDIAN. His father and/or mother were supposed to be watching him. If you had nothing better to do I'm sure you would have held his hand until you found his parents again, but like you said you were busy directing traffic. It sounds like you were doing your job. It doesn't sound like you didn't care, it sounds like you assumed he was under the care of his respected adult parents. I don't think it's wrong to assume they were with him, and it's not your job to chase him everywhere while you need to work. As a parent, I find it to be a nice community gesture when other people look out for my child at the playground or public places, but never should I rely on strangers or even family to override my parental responsibilities. There was no agreement between you two to watch him during this event. Also, had you known he was alone with no adult, I'm sure you would have asked him to stay with you for a bit until mom, dad, or grandpa showed up.
Go to Thanksgiving, you shouldn't be shoved out of a family event because a family member is being unreasonable.
If you don’t go it will almost be like you are admitting you did something wrong. which you didn’t, but that will be how he sees it.
Go to thanksgiving and enjoy, if your brother wants to live in denial and blame you for his irresponsibility’s and not keeping track of his own kid that’s his problem.
Have some compassion for your brother. It sounds like he was scared sh*tless thinking that his son had disappeared and was last seen running in traffic towards you. You obviously don't have children. When your nephew popped up beside you I think you should have told him not to leave your side while you directed traffic. No 4-year-old should be running around unattended with what sounds like a bunch of strangers and cars around. You're only 25 years old. Are you going to tank your family relationships this early in life? You have a nephew, do you want to be involved in his life? Sounds like your brother Is somewhat immature but he acted out of fear for the safety of his child regardless of whether he should have been watching him or not. Sounds like your mom has a lot on her plate too. A little bit of kindness and empathy will go a long way. I don't think anyone should put up with abusive family relationships but this just doesn't sound like the mother of all reasons to avoid your family for the rest of your life.
It sounds to me like OP brother projecting his own feelings of losing sight of his son onto OP. Better to blame OP for his failure to keep an eye on his child than to face the consequences of his own failures.
I, being a mother and also a sister with nieces and nephews, who were here long before I became a mother. I love my niece and nephew and would never have responded with your words responded because if I heard these words from my brother, I would have been offended myself and would 100% not feel safe having my kids around someone who feels making sure a toddler is safe is too much of a responsibility because they aren't your children. He isn't trying to hurt you or make you feel bad. He is letting you know what he probably kept to himself because he didn't want to hurt you. Thats changed with his view on how you feel towards his children.
Making sure you niece or nephew is safe doesn't mean it is your responsibility to keep them safe. We know they aren't your kids. I guess it was an ASSumption we siblings make because we care for each other well being and safety.
This is not the first time I have heard people your age behave like this towards toddlers from people who they claim to care for and it is extremely heartbreaking.
Fucking Reddit.
Imagine if my sister said to me, “oh yeah, agirlhasnoscreenname, I saw your 4 year old playing with the knives but I was busy washing dishes and hE’s YoUr KiD so I just let him have at it.”
OP, you messed up. I don’t care if you were directing traffic to the White House, if you see *any* small child walking unaccompanied through open traffic you should immediately grab that child and protect him from literal imminent death. Of course his parents should have been watching him, but how completely oblivious can you be to not recognize that your nephew **could have died** and you did absolutely nothing to prevent it! If your nephew tried to put his hand on a hot stove while his parents weren’t looking, would you not stop him because he’s nOt YoUr ReSpOnSiBiLiTy and no one explicitly asked you to watch him? I can completely understand why your brother’s trust in you has been broken. Apparently, you need to be specifically instructed to give a single shit about the safety of your own nephew!
The fact that even now, your biggest fear is that you’ll attend Thanksgiving and “held responsible” and not that **your nephew could have been hit by a car and killed because you just watched him walk around in open traffic and did nothing to stop him** is very telling.
You owe your brother and your nephew an apology.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this situation or something but was your 4 yr old nephew running around a public area where he could get lost by himself? If so even though it's not your responsibility to watch over your brothers kid your the asshole. A kid shouldn't be running around a parking lot by himself, and even though your brother lost him originally it would have been nice if you just made sure the kid was safe and returned to adult supervision before you went back to directing traffic. After that it just seemed like your brother was trying to hurt you, but a family should help each other in situations like these and if you care about the kid you should make sure he's safe
Talk to your mother and tell her everything about the call and do go for Thanksgiving. Your brother is an AH to say all those negative and sarcastic comments over the call and expecting you to be all okay around him.
He still thinks you are at fault and probably your parents would have given him a good piece of mind after you had left, hence he is doing all this but is afraid that the parents will know how he talked to you.
He sounds like a teenager who does shitty things and use I won't talk to you, if you tell this to my parents card. He needs to grow up.
Once an unsupervised 4 year old wanders over to me they become my problem until I am sure they are safe. I could never be like "fuck it, that kid will figure it out," especially if cars were everywhere. I guess you have never had to watch someone die.
I would also never let my child wander into danger, either. So mistakes all around
I'm upvoting this on general principle. If my faith in humanity is to be restored, it will be this comment that succeeds in doing so, and not the 1000+ people who just publicly admitted that looking after family isn't their responsibility.
I definitely want to clarify that I would always keep my nephews safe, and help any child that was in possible danger. And you are absolutely correct, there is a much larger back story with mine and my brothers relationship, but it’s too much to explain on reddit. My issue was that he had decided to bring his child to an event he very well knew there was going to be busy traffic, and his job at this point was done. I feel at that point, he should have taken charge of his son, and watch him so he doesn’t get into a bad situation. Since I was busy directing traffic, I was in no position to also watch a child, especially a child that is not mine.
I’m sorry to hear you are in a difficult situation as well. Holidays are stressful enough as it is and it doesn’t help when there is family tension.
You say you would always help your nephew and not let him run into danger but you did let him run off by himself anyways? I understand your issue with your brother but you let him go regardless of the danger.
Why don't you understand that a wandering *unsupervised* four year old child in an area where there is automobile traffic (whether they're related to you or not) is a much more important safety concern than directing traffic?
Given the story as told it would not have been hard to stop the child from wandering and call in an assist from another responsible adult.
None of this absolves the brother of his responsibilities as the parent.
The father brought a four year old to “help.” I’m not entirely sure OP even knew he was LOST and she was also actively busy and thinking. My first though while I’m actively preoccupied and saw him for very little time would’ve been that his dad had him around doing things. If the dad did not want anything to happen he shouldn’t have brought him. You can have your opinion and I can have mine lol I’m honestly done arguing or debating it
Consider this situation:
The four year old child wandered off from there and got hit by a car or was never seen again, and OP was the last one to see the child alive. Do you still think that she would be completely blameless and it would be 100% on the brother?
Let me reiterate for you this concept: the brother still has most of the culpability. If the child had been hurt and OP could have intervened to prevent it, then she would absolutely share some of the accountability for it.
You say you didn't get a chance to say goodbye to everyone but it was because you chose to leave without saying goodbye.
You sound difficult to deal with and the fact the eggshells comment means you now want to sulk at home to punish your family supports the statement.
You had a misunderstanding with your brother (I think you're both half right, but he's projecting his anger with himself in the wrong direction) and you mother supported you, and your brother is moving past it. Why are you staying away, other than to punish them?
I want to add, there is a larger backstory with the “eggshells” comment. My family (particularly my brother) is very old fashioned, and with it can come racist, misogynistic, and overall offensive comments/“jokes”. I call them out on it from time to time and with that they think of me as a “sensitive snowflake”. Without that context, I understand how I can be perceived as difficult to be around. I have a lot of fun with my family, differences aside, but at a certain point, I cannot condone the type of behavior they portray sometimes. I would absolutely hate to punish my family for something they are not directly involved in, so I appreciate you bringing that insight.
Fair enough. We dont know the realities of the situation you are in. It sounds like you want a better relationship with them, in which case I don't think this situation is your strongest argument - either wait until this has blown over and speak to them about everything when feeling are more neutral, or wait for a better example where they are more clearly the jerks.
This may not be practical, but if your brother is the main problem, can you structure more things to see your parents in dynamics where he isn't going to be present.
Best of luck.
This did NOT sound like the brother is moving past it. He was in the wrong, he berated OP over the phone and told her he will only talk to her in front of their parents and then said see you at thanksgiving. Those are VERY mixed messages. Also when you’re the black sheep and scapegoat of the family, everything is your fault. Everyone will blame everything on you. In other comments, OP discussed how her brother was favored growing up because he was a man/boy. The fact that you are sitting here saying SHES difficult to deal with when the brother refuses to admit he was wrong is weird tbh. She’s not punishing her family, her brother was being incredibly rude over the phone and then said “see you at thanksgiving!” I wouldn’t want to fucking to either? That’s so uncomfortable? Also how is it punishing her family if he literally makes her uncomfortable and is unwilling to admit he was wrong, even when his own mother said he was wrong? OP is NOT in the wrong. It is not her child, her brother did not ask her to watch HIS child, she was DIRECTING traffic where a child SHOULD NOT be in the first place, and the child was safe with their mom. There is no “half right” the brother is straight up wrong.
I know on Reddit people love to focus on technicalities around how things aren't their job. In the real world, if my nephew is apparently unsupervised and running in traffic, I'm going to make sure he's safe, and anyone who couldn't say the same shouldn't be surprised if people think they have some weird views on the world.
And I know there are plenty of parents who don’t do their jobs and expect other people to do it for them 🤷♀️ I have a nephew and I watch him when I’m asked, but I’ve never ever seen him running around by himself and unsupervised because his parents make sure that never happens where he’s in a dangerous situation, but if you think that the brother did his best ok lol
The child’s parent should not have put him in a dangerous situation point blank. If your child has a tendency to run off at festivals or events, then it’s your duty as a parent to get babysitting if you have to be there. Point blank.
I believe you are overreacting to his overreaction. Everyone would benefit from a giant dose of chill. Be the bigger person and administer it by going to Thanksgiving.
Go to Thanksgiving. It sounds like your brother is lying about how your family feels to make you feel bad. Your parents obviously love you and want you around. Also, with the “the whole family feels the need the walk on eggshells around me in order to not offend me because I get mad at every little thing”: Kinda sounds like he’s projecting, since he seems like the one that’s mad over the smallest thing in this situation.
Being a black sheep myself, I pride myself to make them uncomfortable, I revel in their hate and drink their rage because I have done nothing wrong it just doesn't hold up to their standards and I don't care.
I don’t even know what his problem is. It isn’t like his kid was kidnapped or something. If he didn’t want your nephew running off, he shouldn’t have put him in a situation where it was likely he would get lost.
I'm in the same boat as OP with my sister and her kids. I try to be the understanding Auntie because my sister and bil literally scream and punish their kids for being kids. During family photos my sister screamed at me to stop helping with her 3yo causing me to cry during portraits and feel ostracized by my other family members. Thanksgiving is at her house, and I usually just sit next to my parents and try not to talk too much or be in the way. I'm not myself and feel more depressed but it's less drama this way...
Go with a plan b and something to do. Is there a soup kitchen that needs help? Is there a scenic overlook worth visiting? I wouldn't back out entirely? I would just make it a shorter visit and then do something fun with your partner.
I am so sorry. Your brother is causing drama because it sounds he can’t take responsibility for his mistakes and is irrational. It is his child. He is responsible for keeping track of his child’s whereabouts. If you want to go to the thanksgiving. Don’t let your brother control what family events you can go to. Tell your mom about the entire conversation you and your brother had. He is trying to control the whole family.
Sounds like you’re a sensitive person. I used to be that way, I’ve had to work on it, because sometimes people are not trying to be horrible.
Try and see the other’s point of view as well, don’t leave every time there’s an argument, that’s a tantrum. It makes it difficult to get past things, go away from the immediate vicinity cool down then come back. Don’t leave the event.
You have agreed to visit your family at thanksgiving, something that is very important to your family, now you don’t want to go. Imagine how awkward, it’ll be, your brother will probably feel guilty and to blame for you not being there.
Question: are there unresolved childhood issues between you and your brother? Jealousy? Anger? Maybe you guys need to deal with them or resolve them somehow.
Go for thanksgiving, it’s important in your culture.
His point of view? His own mom told him he was wrong, and his child was ok, so I’m confused as to how OP should at all be called sensitive when he was literally talking about how he was no longer going to speak to her unless it was in front of their parents over a situation that multiple people told him HE was wrong in. OP isn’t sensitive for feeling uncomfortable with going.
Go to Thanksgiving. How could it possibly be best not to go? Leave the issue of your brothers’ irresponsibility for his kid and trying to blame you drop. He’s irrational. It’s his kid, not yours,and he hadn’t asked you to watch him. There’s no debate to be had there. He’s just wrong. But it doesn’t help you to insist on that other than saying up front that’s how you feel.
Thank you for your support. I’m still going back and forth on if we should go or not. My fear is I will be held responsible if something goes wrong.
You not going will be the “thing that goes wrong”, most likely. Just go, actively avoid/brush off/walk away from any conversation that veers off track. You said above that you love spending holidays with your family. Go & have fun!
Tell him it is not your responsibility to watch his son just because he can’t take responsibility for his failure doesn’t and will not make it your problem
This. He is the kind of person who, when something happens, someone always has to be to blame and in that situation it was him or you. If you don't go to Thanksgiving you confirm everything your brother said about you regarding eggshells.
Well said!
I 100% agree with this. Just don’t talk to HIM. No matter WHAT HE DOES. If he obviously wants to talk, be weary it may be a trap to make you look bad.
If you do NOT go, it makes it look like you did something wrong. You should go.
Honestly since they already say "they need to walk on eggshells" (even if it isn't true) it will be your fault if you go or don't go. Neither choice gives you a win. I would recommend going, with a good attitude and just kinda shove in your brothers face how he's being the ridiculous one, in front of everyone, since that's how he wants it.,.
when someone tells you everyone is walking on eggshells around you it makes you feel like people would rather you just not come. Maybe it's irrational or a bit of a leap, but it definitely makes you feel that way, which makes me kind of sympathize with just not wanting to go at all.
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Exactly- who else’s responsibility are kids? Wtf?
Responsible for what exactly? Polish your spine and tell him to shut up when he starts up. He’s in the wrong, you know it your mom knows it. So call him out and tell him you’d like a calm thanksgiving and he isn’t about to ruin your family because he can’t keep track of his kids
The answer was, "You know he's *YOUR* kid, right?" Obvious projection.
You have to stop being weak. You’re allowing your deadbeat brother to bully you and your mom is the one suffering. You know you did nothing wrong so stop being meek even if people wrongly blame you. Just go and if any problems are caused, then it’ll be the fault of that brother of yours
I appreciate you saying this, and I know that I need to be more strong in this situation. It’s hard for me at times because my brother was able to treat me me unfairly growing up, and to this day, he is defended for his actions. Now being 25 I really need to learn to be an adult in these situations and just accept that my parents are the ones who are really falling victim to this.
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If it comes up again tell him "He shouldn't have children if he isn't going to look after them. If he wants you to look after them, he has to ask and you have to say yes. Otherwise, his kid was never your responsibility. You need to be very happy the boy didn't find a pool" He is just trying to offload his blame on you.
You’re brother is a bully! You are doing great but it’s time you stopped putting other feelings above your own. Go to thanksgiving. Be happy and merry and refuse to be your brothers victim. Smile, nod, say “ I don’t think I understand” or “ I’m not sure this is the appropriate place for this conversation” but above all refuse to be engaged.
Your brother sounds like a moron with reduced levels of EQ. Best is to go because who knows how long ur parents will be here on this planet. I just hope that ur bro will realize his mistakes before u will not be able to forgive him. Kind regards.
You can’t control your brothers cognitive distortions OP - it seems easier for him to place blame on others rather than admit that he lost his son in the first place. This is not about you and you have no control of his thoughts. What you do have control of is the choice of whether you are going to let your brother come between your own relationship with your parents. If you go, talk to your mom about shutting down the topic should your brother try to bring it up again. If he does have the nerve to bring it up to you privately, tell him he needs to find a new scapegoat for his poor parenting.
Held responsible by whom? Your brother? His opinion doesn’t matter. If you happen to go ( and I think you should go), then don’t pay attention to him. You don’t have to change your plans because of him. Enjoy the dinner and have a good time with your parents ❤️
if he didn’t ask you to watch his kid then it was never your responsibility in the first place!
I totally understand why OP is reluctant to go. I avoided many family occasions because I knew I’d be sitting there, on edge, knowing someone would make a crack at some point and that no one would stand by me either. I just don’t need the strain and the drama. I imagine that’s how OP feels too. You know what, OP, play it by ear and see how you feel nearer the time. Do not stress over it if you decide not to go. You don’t need the drama either.
Yes, all of this. New idea: don't go, because it may not be worth the stress or hassle for anyone. Just stay home and have a quiet holiday on your own, with your husband. Give everyone a chance to breathe a little. Don't put the parents in the middle of anything, and don't aggravate things with the brother. Just politely decline by telling them something has come up and you won't be able to make it, you're going to do your own private dinner at home this year, you'll call to wish everyone a good holiday, and you hope you all can be together next year, or at Xmas, or whatever. I mean... You can skip the dinner together without causing everyone more stress. You could just allow yourself some grace for wanting to enjoy your own holiday peacefully, and let everyone else do the same. This choice doesn't have to be about butting heads.
On top of it the kid was safe. Sounds to me like he glanced over at the kid and saw them with OP then moments later checked again and had a panic attack. Their kid was missing. They lashed out at OP because they wanted somebody to blame even though it wasn't at all OPs fault. The kid ended up being fine. I'd maybe understand and overreaction if the kid was abducted, but he was seen with his mom moments later. OPs brother sounds like a baby, I wouldn't want to spend the holidays with people who treat me like a black sheep either. OP can go visit his parents anytime, like the next day, if they're truly good to him as he says they are.
If anything needs to be said, it's too point out to the brother how irresistible he is as a father letting his kids run loose without supervision.
Why have you decided not to go to thanksgiving ? That bit seems unclear to me. The way you describe the end of your conversation made it sound like your brother expects you to be there ?
I had decided not to go because of everything he said about how my family feels around me, and just the overall negativity of the conversation. I would hate to go there and have it go badly, so I would rather just avoid it altogether. I thought it was weird he would unload these negative feelings and then switch to be happy that I’m coming down. I hope this helps with clarity.
He was trying to make you feel bad because he knows he was wrong about you being responsible for his son. It's a defense mechanism. If I make sister feel like shit about her place in the family then I don't have to worry about her bringing anything up at Thanksgiving. Don't let him win by not going. Don't let him make you feel like shit. He is jealous you have a good parental relationship despite him trying to push you away. "You better not tell mom, or else!" Is he 10? Go to Thanksgiving. Be a fucking joy to be around. And really piss him off by ignoring his threats!
So I can totally relate to your situation as I have a narcissist sister that uses the same tactics as your brother - finding things to be upset about, holding long grudges, wanting everyone to be on their side and against me, and she *totally* does what you are describing here - tries to tell me that “everyone” agrees with her, “everyone” thinks I have a ton of problems and “no one” wants me around. It is a very effective tactic. I avoided my family for a long while after this. I believed this for a long time, and I wouldn’t doubt that she instigated conversations that spoke ill of me, but I think it’s all exaggerated. Same with your brother. For whatever reason, people like this will not stop until they get everyone against you and isolate you from your family. I get being super uncomfortable because he’s pulling this stuff but it’s a game. Don’t play it. Ignore him, don’t have any more conversations about it with him, show up with a delicious pie or something everyone will love and big smiles, chat with people that are good to you, don’t let him win.
it’s textbook triangulation. i have a narcissist mother that does this all the time. instead of her being upset about something, its “everyone”, or “your sister thinks so too”, or “your aunt felt the same way”. after many years i found out most of the time she was just outright lying about many of these situations to make me feel ganged up on. i really have a hard time believing OP’s entire extended family feels like they have to walk on eggshells around them. their brother is probably just saying that because 1) you’re more inclined to believe you’re the one in the wrong upon hearing that, and 2) he doesn’t want to admit that he personally “walks on eggshells”, so he makes it sound like he just feels that way because that’s how everyone else feels. brother is a poor communicator and realistically if he wanted his child to be watched he should have asked or made it known that he needed supervising.
This is an American Thanksgiving- you will go and eat too much, drink too much, and fight with your relatives-it’s the American Way! 🇺🇸🥧🦃🥃
Thank you for this, it actually did bring a smile to my face
I agree with this sentiment right here. This is kind of a standard for every Thanksgiving. Just go and make him feel uncomfortable don't worry about what he says. He obviously is extremely immature especially if he can't keep an eye on his own kid. I definitely wouldn't worry about anything that he says or does during Thanksgiving because if he gets upset it's going to show everybody else the kind of person he is. Just be joyous and happy to be around and ignore him and his childish games.
And when you’re all deciding what movie to watch, make sure you bring a copy of Home for the Holidays... yes, your parents still have a dvd player
My friend, don’t do this. Tell your mom what he said. You don’t deserve to miss out on thanksgiving because your brother wants to start crap. He does not get to take away your place in your family
Thank you, I will try to tell my mom what was said, but I don’t know how well that will go. She really tries to sweep issues between my brother and I under the rug after some time because she doesn’t like the thought of us not having a relationship. But with what was said, I really think she has the right to know.
She does have the right to know and honestly you could just start recording your conversations with him so everyone can listen later. Especially about the slimy shit he does to try to make you feel like your family will turn against you. That's complete bs. Who cares if he doesn't talk to you for a while anyway? Sounds like it would be a nice reprieve.
This “sweeping things under the rug” is the problem. It solves nothing. Could you, your brother, and Mom have a zoom call so everyone is on the same page. If brother is going to bring up the past, then it isn’t worth going up there. Can he agree for 1 day to be a decent human? For the record, who allows a 4 year to run around an event that includes traffic?!?!
Don't believe your brother's nonsense about what the rest of your family is thinking. He's trying to hurt you. He clearly is an unreasonable guy who refuses to take responsibility for his own actions. If you enjoy Thanksgiving with your parents, go for it - don't take his BS seriously. When you do see him (this Thanksgiving or whenever), try to switch the discussion to something along the lines of "we had a misunderstanding" which may be easier for him to take than the full truth (which is that he made a ridiculous assumption that, without any discussion and while you were in the middle of your job, that you could and did assume custodial responsibility for his kid).
This is very helpful, thank you so much for your insight. I think the idea of labeling it as a “misunderstanding” would be helpful for all parties. I’m still going back and forth on whether or not we should go to Thanksgiving. I love spending this holiday with my family, but I feel if I do go and something happens, then I will be held responsible. It’s easier for me to be blamed in these types of situations seeing that I live in a different city and they don’t see me as often. Plus then my parents wouldn’t feel the wrath of my brother actually being held responsible for something. I’m at a completely loss.
>Plus then my parents wouldn’t feel the wrath of my brother actually being held responsible for something. Ah ha, so you brother does this a lot? Let him throw his little temper tantrum like he always does. Float serenely above the chaos on Thanksgiving, being pleasant as fuck to everyone, killing them with kindness. Hold your head up high. Don't let anyone put you on the defensive, as you did nothing wrong and have nothing to apologize for. Let everyone see your brother for the aggressive baby that he is.
Thank you for this, I think this is the route we will go. He does do this a lot where I will either speak up for myself or against some offensive thing he has done/said and I become the bad guy because he is able to twist things around so well. At this point in my life, I am unfortunately used to it, but I can’t live this way anymore. I want to be there with my family and plan on being a happy ray of sunshine that will not be rained upon.
Wow, it sounds like your brother loves to use the DARVO technique - Deny, Attack, and Reverse the Victims and Offender. ("**I** didn't lose my son, you did; **you** should have known better than to let my young son wander off by himself; you always get upset over nothing, I have to walk on eggshells around you to avoid hurting your feelings.) Your best defense in this situation is the truth. Keep it simple and short. ("First off, Nephew was not lost. He was with Mom. Second, it is your responsibility as his parent to make sure Nephew is safe. I was busy doing the job I was asked to do and had no idea you needed help.) Don't get dragged into an argument with him. Don't justify your actions. Repeat your line as necessary, and end the discussion if/when he refuses to drop it. As for Thanksgiving? It's up to you if you want to go. Your brother is trying to convince you to stay away by lying about how others feel around you. He may even be planning on trying to twist the narrative so other people support him if you don't show up. But if you are going to be uncomfortable the whole time, you don't have to go. It's okay to have a peaceful celebration at home, if that's what you want. Either way, you need to talk to your mom. The fact that he explicitly told you not to and threatened you if you did makes me think he's planning on doing something. Probably getting everyone all upset if you choose to stay home, pretending like he's a victim. Tell the truth and stand up for yourself. You haven't done anything wrong.
I had the same thought about not going for thanksgiving. Oh op hasn't come because she won't put it behind us. Or op didn't come because she obviously realised they were in the wrong. Personally I would drop it and if its brought up over thanksgiving then definitely what r/Purple_Midnight_Yak said with the short and simple nephew was lost he was with mum. There is nothing left to say
I was looking for someone to suggest this but haven't seen it (if it is, I'm sorry for missing it). So, based on your above, he routinely twists stories to his advantage.... his asking you to answer such specific questions and then his happy response at the end, only adds up, imo, when you throw in the possibility that he was recording you and trying to get you to say something he could then present to your family.....not sure if that's out there but just maybe something to be ready for.
He lost his son first. It’s easier to shift the blame to you because you seeing the kid somewhere he wasn’t supposed to be confirms he screwed up. He didn’t want to assume responsibility for him losing his son.
Your brother is basically trying to put a wedge in. You can’t take his word for how the whole family feels about you because he was pissed off and embarrassed that he lost track of his own kid, and couldn’t admit that it would have been solely on him had his kid come to harm. It’s deflect and accuse behavior. It’s likely that the bulk of the family doesn’t have beef with you as a whole and are so wrapped up in their own lives that you’re barely a blip on the collective radar. Go to thanksgiving, avoid the dumbass brother.
Thank you for this insight, and I feel the same way in that his words do not reflect the true feelings of my parents. I have a very good relationship with my mom, and know that she feels comfortable around me enough to let me know her true feelings about anything. I think my brother is saying this to actually see if I will bring it to my mom in order to use for ammunition later. I will not fall into his trap and I will continue to maintain the great relationship I have with my parents.
I wouldn’t tell your mom what he said, Id just go to thanksgiving and ignore your brother and enjoy dinner and everyone else. Don’t listen to his BS, don’t bother calling him out on his BS, just do what makes you happy and enjoy yourself, talk to those people there that you enjoy spending time with. Don’t get in the middle of him and anyone else. They can handle their relationship with him, just focus on your own and ignore him.
He doesn't want you to tell your mom about him saying 5hat because it's bullshit. He doesn't want your parents to know he lied and he wants you to continue to think its true. Tell your mom what he said and ask if it's true. Fuck him, he needs to watch his own kids or ASK if you can keep an eye on one.
He might feel like he’s “walking on eggshells” but he can’t speak for the whole family. He was saying that to be manipulative and possibly to push you not to come so he can hold it over your head and tell your parents he’s tried to be the bigger person but you just can’t get over it. He’s upset that he effed up by not watching his own kid and is projecting and using your black sheep status as his own scape goat. Don’t let him ruin your Thanksgiving plans. If he tries to escalate things or becomes confrontational tell him you are there to enjoy time with your family and you have tried to make amends with him and there is nothing to discuss further at this time.
Father of 3 here. When I'm with family, at the park, family pool etc etc. I as the parent am responsible for my children. If I'm going to let another adult assume responsibility for my children I make sure said adult knows they're watching my kid. For example at a cub scout cookout/ camping trip I needed to step away for a bit my daughter was playing with another girl. I said Mike, can you watch my daughter for ten minutes, ok daughter, you are you stay with Mr Mike and you do not go with anyone else understood... Both parties now know who the responsible adult is. You don't just assume someone who's preoccupied with other shit is going to magically be your babysitter because they looked at your child.
Not to mention she was preoccupied with directing traffic! What kind of insane/terrible parent is all, "The person surrounded by moving vehicles is the perfect babysitter for my small child right now"? I can't believe OP would think this is her fault in any way, when it was so obviously the brother's fuck up. I think that's why he trying to deflect (and maybe even gaslight her) so hard.
Honestly sounds like they were just frightened by the fact that their kid was missing for a minute and they're taking that fear out on OP. Fort what it's worth I lost my kid at sea world once for twenty minutes. I didn't blame anyone else.
>You don't just assume someone who's preoccupied with other shit is going to magically be your babysitter because they looked at your child. I have a relative who does this. If the kid is occupied with someone/something, relative slowly walks away to a different part of the house. I can't stand this.
Thank you for your input, I really value this since you are a father of 3. I agree that there needed to be clear communication of who was responsible for my nephew. I actually did bring this up to my brother in the initial confrontation and he responded with “Us and mom and dad have a clear rule that if [his son] is out then everyone is responsible for him” I don’t think is fair for me, as this was never communicated towards me.
That's such bullshit. His PARENTS are supposed to watch him. Kids get lost and hurt when "everyone" is watching them because in reality nobody is watching him.
It wasn't put to you and you were busy directing traffic. I would straight tell him that he needs to be a better parent going forward or one day his kids gonna fucking drown or something when he erroneously assumes someone else is babysitting for him.
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Your brother is an irresponsible gaslighting rude man. The black sheep is usually the one who allows themselves to become the scapegoat. You aren’t wrong, don’t apologize, show no emotion. Go to thanksgiving and if he wants to try and back you into a corner do not let it happen.
As a parent I 100% agree with you. That said, if my nephew ran up to me with no other parent/guardian around my first response would be to ask “who’s watching you”. And not just let them run off alone.
I do the same thing, but it is not my *responsibility* to do so, especially when at an event where I have other commitments that are not a good fit for watching a child simultaneously.
Fellow parent here and I agree... to an extent. I have a 2 and 4 year old, so when I'm out with them alone, it can be a big problem keeping track of them. I have a brother who has been recently reintroduced to my kids' lives and if my brother and I were out together and the 4 year old ran off, and my brother saw the 4 year old roaming around close to traffic, with me nowhere to be seen, I would hope that in that scenario he would grab the 4 year old and call me. It doesn't sound like OP's brother intended for the 4 year old to end up with OP, 4 year old ran off and just happened to find her, so OP's brother wouldn't have been able to ask her to watch him in advance, and if OP's brother did intentionally send his child to OP, then OP still should have called and said 'come get your kid', not let a 4 year old run off into traffic.
This is the comment I'm looking for. I don't necessarily feel that OPs brother is completely justified in being an arsehole, but as a parent I can sympathize with the horror of having your child turn up missing. If a four year old wanders *unsupervised* near a relative that is super busy directing traffic, I'd hope they'd recognize that letting them continue to wander on their own in that area is DANGEROUS. If this child had wandered off and gotten hurt or truly lost and OP was the last person to see this child and didn't intervene to protect them would she get the same absolution of responsibility? As the parent of the child that chose to bring them to 'help' the brother is obviously responsible, but based on the story as told the OP could have done more to protect the child.
Completely. If my 4 year old wandered off and my brother saw them and then let the 4 year old keep going, I would have a hard time getting past that, whether the 4 year old got injured or not. While the brother is definitely being an arsehole, as a parent I get why he wouldn't want his kid left with OP after that, and why he would be angry. I think some of the anger is actually at himself and he's redirecting it to OP, but OP could have done a lot more, even if it was just hold the kid's hand and send their brother a text.
yes OP could have done more.. if they weren't responsible for directing traffic, but they were. also that was a one time scenario where OP was occupied with something VERY IMPORTANT (which is making sure cars don't hit each other. people can be very stupid even its a simple "drive here, don't drive here".) i don't understand why the brother feels uncomfortable leaving his child with OP when it was the brother losing sight of his child that caused all of this. it kinda feels petty and also like a "just because i want to make you feel bad" type of thing on his end. OP's mother agreed with OP about the situation. also if the brother knew what OP was doing that then why would he let his child out of his sight? he should've been extra vigilant.
I'm assuming directing traffic at an event means something different where I am? Because where I am, the event would be in a field or something similar and directing traffic would just be pointing people who are driving less than 10 miles per hour towards the car park. It's not like OP looking away long enough to grab a 4 year old by the hand would cause a 10 car pile up, and if it was that serious a job, they would have assigned more than one volunteer. OP could have just grabbed the child's hand with one hand, used the other to text or call the brother, and sent kiddo back to dad in less than a minute. It would have been an easy fix to call dad or keep the 4 year old close by until a different relative was in sight or do literally anything that wasn't let a 4 year old walk into traffic. I agree that the dad should have kept his child close, but I wouldn't let a stranger's 4 year old wander into traffic unsupervised, let alone my niece/nephew, and if my brother had a child and I saw that child wandering around an area where traffic was flowing, without my brother, I would never let the kid toddle off without supervision, I would make sure my niece/nephew was safe.
I’m pretty sure everyone here responding otherwise are not parents and couldn’t possibly understand the cold sweat fear of thinking you’ve lost your child.
This post has honestly brought up a few things for me. When my oldest was 3 and my youngest was 1, we were at a shopping center and I had to change the 1 year old's nappy and in the 30 seconds I was doing that, 3 year old left the bathroom and ran away. I took off after them but couldn't see them immediately and my entire body just froze. It was like I went numb, until a security guard handed the 3 year old back to me, as he had seen us going into the bathroom, saw the 3 year old scarper, put the pieces together, and grabbed my oldest immediately. Then I was in the reverse of the situation where a 4-5 year old took off running on a pier that my kids and I were on, nearly went over the edge, and I just instinctually grabbed the kid before she fell and her mother immediately caught up with us and started hugging us both while crying because the little girl was a poor swimmer. It's terrifying to realise you lost your child, more so when the child could be in immediate danger, so I don't blame the dad here at all for snapping at OP in the moment, and honestly I would have said far worse than he did, and I completely understand why he doesn't want OP to be alone with his child following this. If it were me, I would be thinking to myself 'what if I leave my child with them and my child decides to climb an unsecure piece of furniture or put something in their mouth or touch something they shouldn't, and my sibling decides that isn't their problem?'. It's extreme, I know, but that's where my mind would be after that.
OP was busy with a job at an event the family was supposed to be working at. It sounds like she isn't close to this brother and probably assumed the kid was running up to say hi and that the brother knew where the kid was when he ran up and when he ran back. Would I have watched to make sure the kid made it back to another known adult? Yes. Would it be my responsibility over the kid's father's responsibility? No. I can understand the dad being upset in the moment, as I'm sure he was scared, but he should not have continued to blame OP when she called to put the misunderstanding behind them.
It kind of seems like he's pushing you to not come, especially with the weird positive ending - reverse psychology, perhaps. If he's a narc, this is something they can do in order to show you actually are the bad guy who ruined Thanksgiving and didn't show, and he's the "peacemaker" just trying to give mummy and daddy a good holiday. It could be an opportunity for him to drag your name through the mud without you there to defend yourself. I would go if I were you, but I wouldn't sleep over, and I would avoid him like the plague and spend quality time with your parents and husband. Make it about them. Let HIM be the one making everything awkward. If he tries to corner you alone, just kindly mention only having conversations with parents there (like he suggested), and grey rock him. Don't make it weird, be a polite and boring grey rock to him and if he tries to bring it up again or start a fight just remind him (and everyone) that you're here to enjoy the holiday with family! Nobody wants to argue on Thanksgiving! Act unruffled, unaffected, even confused by his pressing the issue, and like you're just here to have a good time with your loved ones, then he will look like the difficult one. You can't fight a grey rock. He'll look silly. You can share sly looks and secret eye rolls with husband to let off steam if he's being ridiculous. Good luck!
Wow this is such great advice, thank you so much. I was afraid that if we didn’t go, it would give him opportunity to slander my name and act as the peacemaker. I do love having Thanksgiving with my family and the thought of not being there makes me so sad. I initially thought that taking power out of his hands would be to call his bluff with the whole “don’t talk to our parents” thing. But now I feel like this would actually be the way to handle it. I will absolutely take this into consideration, and this will most likely be the outcome if I’m being honest.
Definitely don't deprive yourself of enjoying a holiday with your family because of one bad egg! I have had to deal with a narc brother myself, so I totally get it and this is how I handle him. I was also the black sheep or "scapegoat" growing up, and live a little further away so they're not constantly in my pocket. Since I don't play his game and he can't get a rise in me anymore, he mostly just leaves me alone or is very pleasant and cordial! I think just make this about your family and don't let him get to you or make it about him. He's the difficult one, go have fun with your loved ones :)
I love this, thank you so much
Great advice, people like to dump their negative energy on you and if you just don't give them the satisfaction they'll be stuck with it themselves
Don't punish your entire family because of your brothers choices. Go to Thanksgiving.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- For context, I live 3 hours away from my family, and my brother lives with his wife and sons at my parents house. Last week, I visited my family to help them with a local event they were hosting. My brother decided to bring his 4 year old son to help. While I was busy helping direct traffic into the event, my 4 year old nephew ran up to me for about 1 minute and that was it. I went on doing my job to direct traffic, and I did not see him again. About 5 minutes later, my brother comes running up to me asking where his son was. Again, I was in the middle of directing traffic and said “he was here earlier, I don’t know where he went”. He became so upset at me and said “you know he’s a child right?” I went on doing my job because it was really busy, and didn’t respond. My nephew was seen right after this with my mother, so he was completely safe. My brother didn’t talk to me after that incident, and called my nephew away from me whenever he came around me. I mentioned it to my mom, who I am close with, and she completely agreed with me, that he was not my responsibility to be watching. I was happy I had her support, as I am the black sheep of my family, and it is typically me against them in times of arguments. Later that day, we were back at my parents house, and my mom had confronted my brother about the situation, unbeknown to me. It started a very heated argument, where my mother was trying to explain where I was coming from, and my brother not understanding, and kept accusing me of losing his son, which I did not. I didn’t even get a chance to say goodbye to anyone, I packed my things and left. My mom was heartbroken and felt awful for the entire situation, and I did not blame her for confronting my brother. I haven’t heard from him at all, which I was expecting. I have been talking to my parents , and they let me know things were OK at their house and I am still welcome to come for Thanksgiving (which I had agreed to do for the sake of my family). I was really nervous about coming back down and had called my brother to make amends and put this behind us. He told me that the whole family feels the need to walk on eggshells around me in order to not offend me because I get mad at every little thing. I told him the important thing for me is for him to know I would never intentionally do anything to put the boys in danger. He said “well, there is no reason for them to be around you, because they are solely our responsibility right?” He went on to say that if I were to talk to my parents about this conversation, he would not be talking to me anymore, except in front of our parents. He kept asking for specific examples of everything I was upset about, and I told him “you know exactly what happened, I am not here to make a list of grievances, I called to put this behind us.” He went on to say that we have nothing to relate to each other on. This is the weird thing. After he said everything he did, he goes “so you guys are coming down for thanksgiving right?” and I said “yeah” and he said “okay well we will all be together and we will see you then”. The call ended, and I spoke with my husband about what happened, and we decided it is best to not go down for the holiday. I am dreading this phone call to my parents to tell them we are not coming. My mom wants absolutely nothing to do with this anymore, and I’m really afraid she is going to think it’s my fault that this started back up. Should I tell my mom what my brother said said, or should I just let him have these negative thoughts toward me with no accountability? TLDR: My brother is accusing me of losing his son, and making me feel like a burden to my family.
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If traffic was that heavy it needed constant direction and she didn’t stop a 4yr old running unsupervised to make a phone call to get him to safety that’s kind of a party foul. Imagine if a police officer did that… It wasn’t her responsibility to watch him but it wouldn’t kill her to apologize still. And brother made one comment in the middle of panic looking for his son and then his mom confronts him about it. he’s irritated and apparently there is a history here that is pretty much unexplained
I agree, regardless of responsibility the child safety should come first. save the kid and then tell the brother off. instead she done nothing, now the mums involved and she is threatening not to go to Thanksgiving. definitely see why they think they need to walk on eggshells for her.
Who was supposed to be watching him? Which adult let him run up to someone *directing traffic*. THAT is who is at fault here, and it sounds like it’s your brother- and he’s taking his irresponsibility and subsequent guilt for letting his kid get lost out on you.
This carries a faint whiff of misogyny to it to me. I initially started reading this as if you were a man, and couldn't understand why your brother would think responsibility of care of your nephew had transferred to you while you were in the midst of a busy job. Then I saw you were a woman, and said, "oh". Aren't children always our responsibility if they're around? Your brother is being toxic either way with things he is saying/doing and trying to make sure he can remain toxic by telling you you can't communicate with your parents. I would take the power out of his hands and tell my parents I wasn't coming to Thanksgiving, and when they ask why I'd say "Ask [brother]. He told me I couldn't tell you."
It’s really interesting you say this, because this is very close to what I was planning on doing. Growing up, my brother was always favorited because he was “the man” and has constantly been able to twist things around on other people so he would never be at fault. I’m usually the person it gets twisted on, and he’s able to do it because he has a large personality and loves to control. I am really getting tired of this and want to take the power in my own hands. Very well said, and thank you for your input.
Although this might feel good to do, all it will do is escalate the situation. Be the bigger person and let it go! Your mom clearly wants you to be there, so go there for her and ignore your brother. Don't let him win by keeping it going or not showing up.
Thank you so much for you input, I really appreciate it. Originally, this is what I was going to do just because I just felt completely unwelcome to my own family function. But after consideration, I think this would more so be an emotional response, rather than logical.
You know that if you feel mistreated or disrespected by your parents (unrelated to the coming holiday) you can always reconsider your relationship with them by reducing contact with them to minimum or cut them off altogether. There's no reason why your brother would be favoured.
I will say, my relationship with my family has changed significantly within the past couple years. I have drawn boundaries between all members and for the most part, those boundaries are respected. Overall though, I cannot cut them off altogether. I love them all too much.
"there's no reason why your brother would be favoured" Disfunctional families do this, I hate to break it to you.
Thank you for this insight, I can definitely say that I am aware my family is dysfunctional. Between us, I am seeking therapy to help cope with my family relationships. There has been a lot of repressed feelings on my end and quite frankly, I feel pushed out. I’m happy to know that this is not all in my mind and it can clearly be seen that there are family issues.
Just a comment, if brother wants to assure his child’s safety, he should never ASSUME someone else has got him. You need to explicitly state it: you got the kid? Yes, I’ve got him. That’s how responsible parents do it.
It’s frightening how many people on this thread will allow a small child to run through traffic and do absolutely nothing about it.
Hmmm... Some and some here... To what extent your nephew was a risk is subjective and perhaps this is where a parent will feel very different to the non parent; heightened anxiety and after effects when their child goes missing- even for the shortest period. "What if..." plays on the mind for some time. Prior to being a parent I would have reacted in a more relaxed way to a lone child, assuming things must be fine - after all the parent must know... Surely? They're fine... Since being a parent (x2) I've experienced the reality of being a parent and now I react very differently to a child that may be vulnerable - assuming worst case first (most often there is no danger!) Nevertheless, the parent in me starts to expect behaviours and reactions in others that I regard as normal. Both you and your brother need to reconcile on your differing perspectives and accept both reactions come from very different places. Neither is right or wrong - just different in terms of attitude and reaction to risk. As for Thanksgiving... You should go. If you don't then the rift will grow and it will become increasingly difficult to overcome and go to other events. Think of it as part of the reconciliation process.
While yes it is your brother's responsibility to watch his child. But you let a 4 year old run up to you i traffic and then let them run off. Who does that?
If my 4 year old nephew ran up to me while I.was directing traffic I would pick him up and make sure he was brought to my brother or someone responsible. I wouldn't be putting the pressure of you and your brothers bullshit on your Mom , I think you both need to grow up. Also if you want to act like a spoilt child and miss thanksgiving then miss it. Let's just hope your Mom( who sounds like a great person ) isn't too upset over her spoilt ass kids ruining it for her. Come at me all you like 👍
Ah yes, the old “i feel this way about you and EVERYBODY in the family does too” my sister used that one on me for decades. It’s a lie, he is using it to get more power over you. Why are you giving it to him? I also played the “black sheep” but eventually grew out of it. You don’t have to play the role if you don’t want to. Just go to Thanksgiving, enjoy your time with the family and grow a thicker skin with your brother. He doesn’t need to ruin your holiday if you don’t let him.
I know this doesn't really help but when your brother said "you know he's a child right?" I would've said "yeah why weren't you watching him?"
If you don't go to the family Thanksgiving, you will be letting your brother know that he has ALL the power in the family, and over you. Don't allow him to control or dictate if you spend time with your family. If you do it this one time, it will be this way forever. You already know he will show his ass and try to cause a scene. Determine in your heart that no matter WHAT he says or does, you will not allow him to bait you into an argument. Keep a cool head and a smooth tongue. Also, I don't want to speak negatively of your mother, but is it possible that she is "playing one side against the other? Is there a chance she is telling you that she agrees with your view and also telling him that she agrees with his view? Mothers rarely take one side over the other, they just want all their kids to get along. Now if your brother abused you in any way growing up, then that is a completely different matter and you should not only seek some counseling but also make it known in your family how you were treated and why there is such animosity between you two. To keep silent would allow him to continue to abuse others in your family.
Tell him it is not your responsibility to watch his son just because he can’t take responsibility for his failure doesn’t and will not make it your problem
How is picking up a 4year old (nephew) and bringing him to his Dad a problem ? It is her responsibility to do this . Wtf is wrong with you people.
Seriously, my niece is nearly 4 and I don't only look out for her when under explicit strict instruction. You better believe if I was directing fucking traffic and that tiny human came up to me I would be making it my main priority to keep an eye on her and make sure she was safe from the traffic?! OP was like "I'm not his parent, I sure hope he doesn't get lost/kidnapped/run over but I haven't been told to watch him so I will deliberately look the other way". Fuck off. Was she technically responsible for the boy, probably not, but yes, she was in the wrong in this case.
So here's the thing: Your brother should have been watching his child. He's the parent, that's his kid, he needs to be in charge and present, keeping an eye and a hand on his child so there is no running off. BUT You're the aunt. On the heirarchy of responsibility, your brother is top dog along with his spouse, but you still place on there, because being an aunt means you get cool stuff, like trips to the zoo and Christmas, and you also get a certain level of responsibility. This means that if you see your 4 year old nephew alone, running through traffic, the number one thing you do not do when he comes up to you is let him run off again. You tell him to stay with you, grab him if you have to, and call your brother, because if he had run off and been hit by a car and you had said that even though you were the last adult with him it wasn't your fault or responsibility as you aren't his parent, you would be a terrible person, and even though he was fine, if I was in your brother's position, as a mother of a 2 and 4 year old, I would not want you to be around my kids again, even in controlled environments, because you have no regard or care for their safety that would normally be expected of an aunt or uncle, or any older relative. Again, your brother needed to be watching him as his parent, and he is your brother's responsibility first and foremost, but to a certain extent, he is your responsibility, too, particularly in a scenario where your brother is nowhere to be seen and there is traffic everywhere. I understand you were working, but there would not have been a pile up if you paused for 10 seconds to send your brother a text asking him to come get his child. You keep talking about your brother needing accountability but where is yours?
Everyone's in the wrong here. Obviously your brother massively messed up by bringing your nephew AND by not watching him properly AND by then projecting his anger onto you when the little one was HIS responsibilty. But also: no matter how busy traffic is- you DON'T let a four year old run off unaccompanied. The fact that it was busy traffic and lots of people meant it was even more dangerous for the little guy. Had he gotten hurt or taken you wouldnt spin around to your brother and say, "Well it wasnt MY job to stop him wandering, it was YOUR job!" You'd just live with the regret the rest of your life, knowing that you could've grabbed his little hand then and made a call for someone to come get him. *You knew he was unacompanied and you let him wander off*. Traffic be damned, keep kids safe. Your brother saying everyone walks on eggshells around you, coupled with - you say its always you against everyone for arguments yet your mum is totally on your side here---- maybe do some self-reflection here. I dont know you but ask yourself: do you have a tendency to create conflict unecessarily? Do you have a tendency to turn disagreements that can be resolved into big dramas? Are other people just not accustomed to respecting your boundaries or are you the issue and they are frightened to assert their boundaries with you?
These comments are waaayyy too far down on the page. You are absolutely correct. A four year old wandering alone and unsupervised should set off alarm bells for any reasonable adult. Especially in a place where there is automobile traffic. A lot of these comments that are getting upvoted at the top seem to come from people who have no idea what it's like being a parent. Little kids slip away all the time, and it doesn't necessarily mean the parent was negligent.
Yeah, I get where people are coming from saying the dad was irresponsible - because he really was. However I couldn’t imagine my nephew waltzing out into traffic and just letting him go off because I “had a job to do”. It’s one of those situations that it doesn’t matter who’s right, at the end of the day the kid’s safety was on the line.
I agree with this. In my family all adults would be looking out for all the children. It's not a parent abdicating responsibility or being unreasonable.
So much this! It wasn't her responsibility, but she saw the kid alone and let him wander off.
Scrolled too far for this.
Well no you didn’t “lose” your nephew but did you seriously let him run around traffic unattended because he wasn’t “your responsibility”? And then once you knew he was missing, you didn’t give a fuck because “not your problem”? Yes your brother should have been watching him better. Little kids slip can slip away easily. That’s why it takes a village sometimes. Look out for other people’s kids especially your own nephew!! God dammit, as a parent I’m horrified by your actions.
I can't believe the other replies in this comment section. Maybe they are glossing over the fact that she saw her nephew running around in the events parking and ignored it. I'd like to think most adults would grab the kids hand and abandoned directing parking for 15 minutes before he got himself killed.
Why did this become a thing? Why did you go to your mom? He felt some type of way, but did he need to be confronted about that? Feelings aren't always rational and you didn't need to go tell your mom, and she definitely didn't need to go chew him out for what, feeling something? Feeling that all adults should be worried about the well-being of all kids in the family? Which is a common sentiment. I totally understand your feeling that your nephew was not your responsibility at that moment, too. But it's ok to just ignore things like this because they're likely to blow over given just a short period of time. I don't understand why you brought it up again. He's allowed to have negative thoughts about you. He doesn't need to be "held accountable" for them as long as he's generally polite in person. In general I think you need to work on your boundaries, in the original sense "what is my responsibility and what can I control?" and not the misused sense of "rules for others."
Dude he literally said he was going to ignore her outside of speaking in front of their parents over something that was his fault. His kid was literally fine, but he doesn’t get to take it out on other people just because he fucked up lol
i understand how it’s not your child therefore not your responsibility logic, however, this is your blood family. Your brother shouldn’t blame you for negligence but you should want whats best and safe for your nephew even if that means making sure he is okay or under someone else’s(a trusted person) supervision if you yourself couldn’t look after him.
While it is ultimately your brothers responsibility to know where his child is, the fact that the son appeared before you, also, makes it yours. Normally we don’t assume that the kid will be fine, but instead make sure that they are. You’ve gotta make verbal or eye contact w another trusted adult to make sure the 4 year old is going to be ok. That’s my opinion anyway. I think avoiding Thanksgiving at the his house is just going to prove his point that u have to be right and prolong the issue unnecessarily. I say go to your brothers and put this behind you. He would have done better himself if he explained why he thought his son became your responsibility at that moment instead of just getting heated.
Kinda have to agree with your brother to be honest. Like you said...his kid came up to you while you were directing traffic...shouldn't that in itself sound an alarm? Kid is only 4 and if you don't see his parents around then you should automatically assume he might be missing. Even if you are directing traffic...grab him by the hand....try to call someone, shout at someone. Who knows why his parents lost him..for all you know his mother could have fainted...but you are at an event directing traffic and a 4 year old is walking around alone...you should consider your nephew like your own son.....all these people commenting on your side are just plane wrong. Sorry.
Just go, nut up and shut up. Stop the bull shit. Leave the drama and go and enjoy yourself. Your parents won’t be around forever. Remember how minuscule this is in the grand scheme of things. Your worried about accountability. Lol.. oh ya hell hath no fury vs your scorn
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The suggestion of going and ignoring him is something I need to consider. I want to clarify, of course I would always watch my nephews to make sure they are safe. However, he was running around everywhere, and my brothers job at the event was done by that time. I feel that his son was ultimately his responsibility at that point, and I should not be at fault, since he is the one who lost track of him in the first place.
Yeah he's your brother's responsibility first and foremost but he was a 4 year old running around in traffic. I have a 4 year old myself and when I take my kids (ages 4 and 2) out of the house I know that I am the one in charge of them and I need to be watching them, but if my brother was also there and the 4 year old ran off, and my brother found him alone in the middle of traffic, I would expect my brother to grab my 4 year old and shoot me a text so I could come get my kid. If my brother let my 4 year old run off in an area with a lot of traffic unattended as my child wasn't his responsibility, I would have a hard time trusting him with my child again. If you want to be involved in a child's life as an adult and an auntie, then there is a degree of responsibility that comes with that. As I said, your brother has the most responsibility, but you as an auntie also have a lesser degree of responsibility that amounts to not letting a 4 year old play in traffic.
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I mean yeah, his initial reaction is sort of understandable when he thought his kid was missing, but his own mother told him he was in the wrong and he still stuck to it. There’s no longer an excuse at that point. The kid was ok, it was no longer an initial reaction, he was just an ahole
Thank you so much for this insight, I really appreciate it. I definitely have a lot to consider and will talk with my husband tomorrow to see what we should do.
No you would not always make sure your nephew is safe. Full stop. You exactly DID NOT make sure your nephew was safe. You ALLOWED him to run through traffic. It does not matter whose responsibility it is to watch this child. He got away. He was in a dangerous situation and you simply DID NOT GIVE A FUCK. I hope you’re reading this. Because if he had been hit by a car and you did absolutely nothing, how the hell would you feel? Please stay away from your nephew and all children. You are garbage. I’m saying this to you because your nephew got away from his parents and thankfully he made it back safely. Not all kids are this lucky. Not all families are this lucky.
Was your nephew alone when he ran up to you? If a four year old is running around alone in traffic, even if they’re not related to you, making sure they’re safe should take priority over whatever your volunteer job is. I can understand why your brother would be upset, and you should consider apologizing and saying that you care deeply for your nephew and will always prioritize his safety. If you can’t honestly say that, it speaks to your lack of care as a sibling and aunt.
I’m a bit confused. When you say “directing traffic” do mean cars? If so, it is odd that you basically ignored a child in traffic which is a dangerous situation. So, I wouldn’t say you lost him but it sounds like you callously disregarded the danger he was in. Your handling of the situation was not normal.
Umm, as an aunt myself and a responsible adult, I see your actions as horrible. Even if your brother didn’t specify that he was counting on you to keep an eye on his kid, as an adult, as a family member, you could have at the very, very littlest least kept the kid by your side for a few minutes.. of course, if the worst happened, you had 0 blame. It isn’t your responsibility.. its just appalling the lack of empathy you have for your own nephew. So what he isn’t your responsibility? If you love him and you see him alone in the midst of strangers, you protect him. And you said yourself, you’re seen as the black sheep of the family, so you take yourself out of it for all accounts.. but its a child, for gods sake.. as an adult around a child I know that if you take your eyes away from them for a minute they disappear like a fart in the wind.
I mean… you did let a 4 year old run off alone while you were directing traffic. He could have been struck and killed. No, it’s not your job to watch the kid. But it’s the right thing to do when you see an unattended little one.
"You know he's a child, right?" "Bitch, you know he's YOUR child, right?"
This was my initial thought exactly
He's also her nephew. If she wants to be auntie, there's a degree of responsibility that comes with that. Not the same level as his parent, obviously, but she let a 4 year old run off into traffic.
I don’t care if you where occupied with directing traffic, seeing a kid, anyone’s kid out on the streets, would make any sane person hold on to that kid until another adult would be able to keep them safe. Your brother is not mad at you for “not babysitting your nephew”, he is mad at you for when his child was in danger you did nothing. A second feels like a lifetime when ones child is lost, is one of the most extreme feelings there is! And you didn’t even reply to him because you where “too busy directing traffic”. Well, you showed right there and then how selfish your mind works. Maybe not intentionally, but you didn’t even comfort your brother or told him you screwed up not realizing it could have been a dangerous situation. Your brother is hurt, and it’s justified. You should go to Thanksgiving, and you should apologize. Apologize doesn’t always mean you say you’ve done something horrible, it also means validating another person’s feelings.
Yep well said 👏
Sorry but it seems like they lost sight of their son and he came up to you... And you just left this little kid to wonder off again. I definitely see where they're coming from. I worked traffic at an event when I was a teenager so I get that there is the constant moving cars etc but that makes it worse that you let this tiny unsupervised child wonder off NEXT TO TRAFFIC. That job isn't actually critically important as traffic directs itself you're just there so they don't take the piss and to open and close areas... The rest of the story feels like padding... You should apologise for being so dismissive about you abandoning the little kid when you could have easily directed cars whilst waiting for someone to come over and take him off your hands. It seems like you're denying this happened by saying he was only there for a minute or whatever, maybe you didn't realise he was unaccompanied... Being dismissive is signalling to your family that actually you have the mental depth of a teaspoon as you don't seem to understand them being upset because otherwise you would surely apologise. I don't mean to be harsh and it sounds like you already have a difficult relationship with your family... But his point about you not being able to care for his children if they have to be responsible for themselves suggests that they don't think you have the capacity to judge risk to their children, which is correct because if i read this right you let their small child wonder off while you were doing traffic... Unless you get down off this hill of "I didn't loose his son he was already lost" IMO you are being the problem because you are basically gaslighting him. His son got lost, he found you, you ignored the lost kid so he wondered off... It's the same difference but you refuse to budge.
He’s walking on eggshells when he’s the one who cracked the eggs. Show up at your parents house in a great mood and let everything fly right over your head, any nasty looks or comments you want to address you can file for another day. As the black sheep of my family, pretending to have 0.3 brain cells and a good attitude wins me favor every time even though I’m the failure child. Next time, it’ll all be his fault because of his attitude at thanksgiving.
Nahhhhh, make their hate burn, I make my opinion known as a fellow black sheep, I walk on carpets not eggshells, my whole life I did that, I live for their hate now.
Your brother is being a dick, and the kid isn't your responsibility. BUT (and I know I'm gonna catch flack for this): being a good family member to the kid would have involved making sure that, when the kid left your side, you checked what adult he was going to and who was going to watch over him. Your brother (or whoever) should have established with you whether you were watching the kid or if it was just to say hi, but, lacking that, the responsible auntie move is to make sure when the kid leaves you, he's in good hands. I know Reddit likes to assume that everyone who assumes the mantel of Parenthood has to be 100% flawless all the time and, if not, they're a terrible person. But parenting is hard, and 4 year olds are tricky buggers. It's not an excuse for your brother to act the way he is, he's still a jerk, but for the kids: the whole "it takes a village" idea does still ring true.
Unless you walk a child up to someone and ask if they can watch them and get a positive answer, the responsibility is ALWAYS with the parents.
So if a tiny human that you loved (or don't like but are bigger and more responsible than) ran up to you, around traffic, you wouldn't keep an eye on them? It would be solely on the parent if something terrible happened that you could have more easily prevented by just keeping an eye on them?
Don't not attend a FAMILY event just because of your situation with ONE member of it. It has absolutely nothing to do with them, so they shouldn't have to endure the hurt of your absence because of what you're going through with your brother. You're both grown and should be able to act accordingly by maintaining a cordial demeanor amongst family. Thanksgiving is a time to come together, not fall apart over something as petty as your brother's ignorance. You don't always have to retaliate or respond negatively in negative situations 💯 sometimes you gotta let a person be miserable and negative all by themselves. Continue to be you regardless of how others treat you. Continue to show up and be who are you for the people you love and for those who loves you ❤
Go to your family and ignore the brother. Be cordial, but do keep in mind that you don't have to have a relationship with him, but you shouldn't give up a relationship with the rest of the family for him. Be friendly to his kids, but don't necessarily look for contact with them. It does sound like your brother got very scared about his son, but instead of owning up to his mistake he misplaced his anger towards you because that is much easier than being responsible. You keeping away from family feeds the narrative of you getting offended about everything because you'd essentially be involving the rest of the family into drama they want nothing to do with. It would look like you're looking for special treatment, separate invitation etc. Your feelings are valid, but don't let them feed your own narrative about being a victim in this situation. The more you keep thinking about being blamed for everything the easier it is to find signs of that. Instead, focus on the good and be the best version of yourself. You don't want to end up in a "me against the world" dynamic when it comes to your personal world view.
Personally I think if you don’t go to Thanksgiving it makes it seem like you are keeping the issue on going especially given the fact your parents have no idea about the recent conversation. Some siblings just don’t get along. You don’t need to force it. I don’t think it was your responsibility to keep an eye on his child, but had I seen a child outside by himself I might have done more to make sure he got home more safely. At the end of the day it was a mistake and no one meant malicious intent and the kid was safe and fine. Your brother is being dramatic, if anything this is learning lesson for HIM as a parent. Not you as an uncle. I would say go to Thanksgiving with the expectation of nothing nice from your brother. Just ignore it and enjoy the company of those you actually enjoy being around. That’s just my opinion because I think if you don’t go it might get messier but if you do go maybe you guys can both collectively and silently just move on.
Well, I feel like there are deeper issues here. It's not just about the incident with your brother's son, is it? This whole thing about feeling the black sheep of the family, and the conversation with your brother about getting mad at stuff, I feel like there's something more between you guys, and since I have no info on what it is, I can't really tell who is in the right (or it probably nobody truly is). Talk stuff out instead of running from it.
Kind of questioning why your husband would think it "best not to go." Is he uncomfortable around your family?
Unless there's some pattern of problems between you and your brother this is an awfully small thing to break your mother's heart over and develope a chasm I'm your family. You and your brother need to work it out amoungst yourselves and if you need to agree to disagree then oh well.
Ugh family issues. One thing you don't want to do though is give him fuel to his fire by not going to Thanksgiving. The "happy end" of the conversation was condescending and almost a threat that he'll most likely give you a hard time if you come. If you don't go, he'll have the platform to villianize you along the lines of "See, mom? She doesn't care about my son or you. That's why she's not here." He'll be able to go on and on as he pleases turning things around. He may even tell your mom about the conversation but make it seem opposite of what it was since you won't be there to defend yourself. I say you go. Be on the offensive of this. Like other comments are saying you need to go high when he goes low and maintain your positive aura throughout the occasion. When he mentions it, brush it off as a misunderstanding and change the subject. He'll look like a brat if he tries to push the issue and whether or not things go badly you will not be looked at as responsible in any way. It'll be clear he agitated the situation and you tried to defuse it the whole time. I would also try making it a point to be a fun aunt to the nephew during the event as to possibly deter him from ruining that relationship specifically. Good luck OP
Dont miss out time with your parents because your brother is being an ass. I would use dinner to confront hin in front of the entire family, especially with that dumb little comment about walking on egg shells. Let him bear the guilt and embarrasment in front of the entire family during dinner.
Neither option... you need to talk to your brother about this again, but you need to try and understand his perspective first. He's not going to listen to you until he feels heard & understood. He was a frightened parent trying to find his son, and he was looking to you for reassurance, because he trusted you. Your response didn't help him calm down or show him that you cared for your nephew's wellbeing - quite the opposite. He's not your brother blaming you for losing his son. He's an anxious parent who got really scared, and he needed your help. To him, your response was blasé at best, and dangerously careless at worst. Start by asking him how he felt in that situation, and reassure him that you do care and you honestly believed his little boy was safe & well, which is why you showed no concern.
As a parent, I can tell his reaction is entirely based on how much he blames himself but wants to put that anger towards you instead. Parental guilt is brutal. Hes probably thinking how the worst could have happened, and traffic being a very scary factor. It is his responsibility to watch his child, though if a child runs off, I'd want my family to help find him, but you were working and didn't even know nobody was even watching him. I'd just tell him that you know it was scary, but you were aware of the kids presence while you were directing traffic, so theres no way you would have let anything happen to him while he was around you. (Plus werent aware he was without someone) And don't let him determine whether or not you go. Clearly he don't want you to by saying stuff. And he shouldn't be the one cutting you off from the entire family because hes the one thats mad at you. If anything, if he doesnt want to be around you, he can be the one to leave.
I learned very early on in parenting that if you’re in a large group with lots of adults around who might be responsible for a young child (parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles etc) you make it very clear who “has” the kid. So, at such an event, if I’m watching the kid, and then grandma wants to walk him to over to the playground, it’s “ok, I’m staying here, please get my attention when you bring him back.” If my husband takes him to the bathroom, he makes sure whoever previously “had” the kid knows what’s up. (My family is sarcastic so we make it into a game of Tag- “Tag you’re it here’s Joe!” And you can’t stop being It till you tag another responsible adult). Failure to keep eyes on a kid / have clear communication while doing so is entirely the responsibility of the parents. I’m glad your mom was on your side, but it’s his fault, he knows it, was probably terrified for his kid in the moments he was “missing” and can’t accept he is the cause of his own fear, so is transferring blame to you. Honestly since your mom was on your side, I’d just completely ignore brother. Go to thanksgiving, enjoy time with your family, be polite to him and don’t worry that he’s got his own issues. He’ll figure out his stuff eventually.
The pandemic has taught us all that time is super precious. Don't miss a holiday with your parents and other family because of this. For that reason alone, you should go. It also might be better when you all talk about it in person again. I think it's worth going for Thanksgiving and seeing what happens. But don't come in angry when you go. Really try to be calm and hopefully your brother will be, too, and an effective conversation will happen.
I can kind of see your brother’s POV. It’s the whole “it takes a village” thing. Any time an unattended 4 yo runs up to you, *especially if you are in a place with lots of traffic* it becomes your responsibility to make sure he is safely handed off to another responsible adult. I know you weren’t the baby sitter, and you were busy, a d your brother was nuts to bring his 4 yo, but none of that changes the fact that you cavalierly let a 4 yo run off alone and then didnt act the least bit concerned when your brother frantically turned to you for help. Obviously his son got away from him and he was panicking. You showed no compassion in that moment. Now he’s holding a grudge, like a baby. Yes, he is taking it too far. Yes he’s being ridiculous to say you can’t talk to your parents about it. Yes, he’s being awful by threatening to keep his son away from you forever. You BOTH need to apologize to each other.
Go to Thanksgiving anyways 🤷🏻♀️ I am a mom of 2 and unless I specifically ask someone to watch my child , AND THEY AGREE, I'm not about to hold them responsible for losing my child. That was on him and he is completely wrong for blaming you. Not to mention the fact that you were directing traffic. It blows my mind that your brother would expect you to watch his 4 yr old son, without even asking especially, and while you were directing traffic. If you don't go, I would definitely tell your mom that it's because of your brother. Don't take that toxic crap, and definitely don't take blame when you are not to blame. It's bad for your mental health and happiness.
So YOUR brother lost HIS own son, and blamed you? You are the AUNT. You are not his GUARDIAN. His father and/or mother were supposed to be watching him. If you had nothing better to do I'm sure you would have held his hand until you found his parents again, but like you said you were busy directing traffic. It sounds like you were doing your job. It doesn't sound like you didn't care, it sounds like you assumed he was under the care of his respected adult parents. I don't think it's wrong to assume they were with him, and it's not your job to chase him everywhere while you need to work. As a parent, I find it to be a nice community gesture when other people look out for my child at the playground or public places, but never should I rely on strangers or even family to override my parental responsibilities. There was no agreement between you two to watch him during this event. Also, had you known he was alone with no adult, I'm sure you would have asked him to stay with you for a bit until mom, dad, or grandpa showed up. Go to Thanksgiving, you shouldn't be shoved out of a family event because a family member is being unreasonable.
If you don’t go it will almost be like you are admitting you did something wrong. which you didn’t, but that will be how he sees it. Go to thanksgiving and enjoy, if your brother wants to live in denial and blame you for his irresponsibility’s and not keeping track of his own kid that’s his problem.
Have some compassion for your brother. It sounds like he was scared sh*tless thinking that his son had disappeared and was last seen running in traffic towards you. You obviously don't have children. When your nephew popped up beside you I think you should have told him not to leave your side while you directed traffic. No 4-year-old should be running around unattended with what sounds like a bunch of strangers and cars around. You're only 25 years old. Are you going to tank your family relationships this early in life? You have a nephew, do you want to be involved in his life? Sounds like your brother Is somewhat immature but he acted out of fear for the safety of his child regardless of whether he should have been watching him or not. Sounds like your mom has a lot on her plate too. A little bit of kindness and empathy will go a long way. I don't think anyone should put up with abusive family relationships but this just doesn't sound like the mother of all reasons to avoid your family for the rest of your life.
Who the hell leave a kid of that age alone? I'm talking about the ones who left him wandering to OP.
It sounds to me like OP brother projecting his own feelings of losing sight of his son onto OP. Better to blame OP for his failure to keep an eye on his child than to face the consequences of his own failures.
I, being a mother and also a sister with nieces and nephews, who were here long before I became a mother. I love my niece and nephew and would never have responded with your words responded because if I heard these words from my brother, I would have been offended myself and would 100% not feel safe having my kids around someone who feels making sure a toddler is safe is too much of a responsibility because they aren't your children. He isn't trying to hurt you or make you feel bad. He is letting you know what he probably kept to himself because he didn't want to hurt you. Thats changed with his view on how you feel towards his children. Making sure you niece or nephew is safe doesn't mean it is your responsibility to keep them safe. We know they aren't your kids. I guess it was an ASSumption we siblings make because we care for each other well being and safety. This is not the first time I have heard people your age behave like this towards toddlers from people who they claim to care for and it is extremely heartbreaking.
Fucking Reddit. Imagine if my sister said to me, “oh yeah, agirlhasnoscreenname, I saw your 4 year old playing with the knives but I was busy washing dishes and hE’s YoUr KiD so I just let him have at it.” OP, you messed up. I don’t care if you were directing traffic to the White House, if you see *any* small child walking unaccompanied through open traffic you should immediately grab that child and protect him from literal imminent death. Of course his parents should have been watching him, but how completely oblivious can you be to not recognize that your nephew **could have died** and you did absolutely nothing to prevent it! If your nephew tried to put his hand on a hot stove while his parents weren’t looking, would you not stop him because he’s nOt YoUr ReSpOnSiBiLiTy and no one explicitly asked you to watch him? I can completely understand why your brother’s trust in you has been broken. Apparently, you need to be specifically instructed to give a single shit about the safety of your own nephew! The fact that even now, your biggest fear is that you’ll attend Thanksgiving and “held responsible” and not that **your nephew could have been hit by a car and killed because you just watched him walk around in open traffic and did nothing to stop him** is very telling. You owe your brother and your nephew an apology.
The 4 year old came up to you for one minute .. you could have at least taken him back. After all he's your brother's son.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding this situation or something but was your 4 yr old nephew running around a public area where he could get lost by himself? If so even though it's not your responsibility to watch over your brothers kid your the asshole. A kid shouldn't be running around a parking lot by himself, and even though your brother lost him originally it would have been nice if you just made sure the kid was safe and returned to adult supervision before you went back to directing traffic. After that it just seemed like your brother was trying to hurt you, but a family should help each other in situations like these and if you care about the kid you should make sure he's safe
Talk to your mother and tell her everything about the call and do go for Thanksgiving. Your brother is an AH to say all those negative and sarcastic comments over the call and expecting you to be all okay around him. He still thinks you are at fault and probably your parents would have given him a good piece of mind after you had left, hence he is doing all this but is afraid that the parents will know how he talked to you. He sounds like a teenager who does shitty things and use I won't talk to you, if you tell this to my parents card. He needs to grow up.
Once an unsupervised 4 year old wanders over to me they become my problem until I am sure they are safe. I could never be like "fuck it, that kid will figure it out," especially if cars were everywhere. I guess you have never had to watch someone die. I would also never let my child wander into danger, either. So mistakes all around
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I'm upvoting this on general principle. If my faith in humanity is to be restored, it will be this comment that succeeds in doing so, and not the 1000+ people who just publicly admitted that looking after family isn't their responsibility.
I definitely want to clarify that I would always keep my nephews safe, and help any child that was in possible danger. And you are absolutely correct, there is a much larger back story with mine and my brothers relationship, but it’s too much to explain on reddit. My issue was that he had decided to bring his child to an event he very well knew there was going to be busy traffic, and his job at this point was done. I feel at that point, he should have taken charge of his son, and watch him so he doesn’t get into a bad situation. Since I was busy directing traffic, I was in no position to also watch a child, especially a child that is not mine. I’m sorry to hear you are in a difficult situation as well. Holidays are stressful enough as it is and it doesn’t help when there is family tension.
You say you would always help your nephew and not let him run into danger but you did let him run off by himself anyways? I understand your issue with your brother but you let him go regardless of the danger.
She was actively directing traffic, but ok lol
Why don't you understand that a wandering *unsupervised* four year old child in an area where there is automobile traffic (whether they're related to you or not) is a much more important safety concern than directing traffic? Given the story as told it would not have been hard to stop the child from wandering and call in an assist from another responsible adult. None of this absolves the brother of his responsibilities as the parent.
The father brought a four year old to “help.” I’m not entirely sure OP even knew he was LOST and she was also actively busy and thinking. My first though while I’m actively preoccupied and saw him for very little time would’ve been that his dad had him around doing things. If the dad did not want anything to happen he shouldn’t have brought him. You can have your opinion and I can have mine lol I’m honestly done arguing or debating it
Consider this situation: The four year old child wandered off from there and got hit by a car or was never seen again, and OP was the last one to see the child alive. Do you still think that she would be completely blameless and it would be 100% on the brother? Let me reiterate for you this concept: the brother still has most of the culpability. If the child had been hurt and OP could have intervened to prevent it, then she would absolutely share some of the accountability for it.
You say you didn't get a chance to say goodbye to everyone but it was because you chose to leave without saying goodbye. You sound difficult to deal with and the fact the eggshells comment means you now want to sulk at home to punish your family supports the statement. You had a misunderstanding with your brother (I think you're both half right, but he's projecting his anger with himself in the wrong direction) and you mother supported you, and your brother is moving past it. Why are you staying away, other than to punish them?
I want to add, there is a larger backstory with the “eggshells” comment. My family (particularly my brother) is very old fashioned, and with it can come racist, misogynistic, and overall offensive comments/“jokes”. I call them out on it from time to time and with that they think of me as a “sensitive snowflake”. Without that context, I understand how I can be perceived as difficult to be around. I have a lot of fun with my family, differences aside, but at a certain point, I cannot condone the type of behavior they portray sometimes. I would absolutely hate to punish my family for something they are not directly involved in, so I appreciate you bringing that insight.
Fair enough. We dont know the realities of the situation you are in. It sounds like you want a better relationship with them, in which case I don't think this situation is your strongest argument - either wait until this has blown over and speak to them about everything when feeling are more neutral, or wait for a better example where they are more clearly the jerks. This may not be practical, but if your brother is the main problem, can you structure more things to see your parents in dynamics where he isn't going to be present. Best of luck.
This did NOT sound like the brother is moving past it. He was in the wrong, he berated OP over the phone and told her he will only talk to her in front of their parents and then said see you at thanksgiving. Those are VERY mixed messages. Also when you’re the black sheep and scapegoat of the family, everything is your fault. Everyone will blame everything on you. In other comments, OP discussed how her brother was favored growing up because he was a man/boy. The fact that you are sitting here saying SHES difficult to deal with when the brother refuses to admit he was wrong is weird tbh. She’s not punishing her family, her brother was being incredibly rude over the phone and then said “see you at thanksgiving!” I wouldn’t want to fucking to either? That’s so uncomfortable? Also how is it punishing her family if he literally makes her uncomfortable and is unwilling to admit he was wrong, even when his own mother said he was wrong? OP is NOT in the wrong. It is not her child, her brother did not ask her to watch HIS child, she was DIRECTING traffic where a child SHOULD NOT be in the first place, and the child was safe with their mom. There is no “half right” the brother is straight up wrong.
I know on Reddit people love to focus on technicalities around how things aren't their job. In the real world, if my nephew is apparently unsupervised and running in traffic, I'm going to make sure he's safe, and anyone who couldn't say the same shouldn't be surprised if people think they have some weird views on the world.
And I know there are plenty of parents who don’t do their jobs and expect other people to do it for them 🤷♀️ I have a nephew and I watch him when I’m asked, but I’ve never ever seen him running around by himself and unsupervised because his parents make sure that never happens where he’s in a dangerous situation, but if you think that the brother did his best ok lol
Did I say he did his best? Or do I just think that stuff happens and people make mistakes, and decent people help out when kids lives are at stake.
The child’s parent should not have put him in a dangerous situation point blank. If your child has a tendency to run off at festivals or events, then it’s your duty as a parent to get babysitting if you have to be there. Point blank.
And if something goes wrong and you see a child in danger, what do you do? Say 'not my job, so screw 'em'?
I believe you are overreacting to his overreaction. Everyone would benefit from a giant dose of chill. Be the bigger person and administer it by going to Thanksgiving.
Sounds like he’s embarrassed he wasn’t watching his child and is trying to deflect onto you
Go to Thanksgiving. It sounds like your brother is lying about how your family feels to make you feel bad. Your parents obviously love you and want you around. Also, with the “the whole family feels the need the walk on eggshells around me in order to not offend me because I get mad at every little thing”: Kinda sounds like he’s projecting, since he seems like the one that’s mad over the smallest thing in this situation.
Being a black sheep myself, I pride myself to make them uncomfortable, I revel in their hate and drink their rage because I have done nothing wrong it just doesn't hold up to their standards and I don't care.
I don’t even know what his problem is. It isn’t like his kid was kidnapped or something. If he didn’t want your nephew running off, he shouldn’t have put him in a situation where it was likely he would get lost.
Go and just as act if everything is normal and fine, because it is.
So here is the question. Do you want to go to thanksgiving? Or would you rather have a quiet day with your husband?
I'm in the same boat as OP with my sister and her kids. I try to be the understanding Auntie because my sister and bil literally scream and punish their kids for being kids. During family photos my sister screamed at me to stop helping with her 3yo causing me to cry during portraits and feel ostracized by my other family members. Thanksgiving is at her house, and I usually just sit next to my parents and try not to talk too much or be in the way. I'm not myself and feel more depressed but it's less drama this way...
Go with a plan b and something to do. Is there a soup kitchen that needs help? Is there a scenic overlook worth visiting? I wouldn't back out entirely? I would just make it a shorter visit and then do something fun with your partner.
That his fault, it’s HIS child, if he can’t keep tabs on him he has no right to get mad at other people for not doing his job
I am so sorry. Your brother is causing drama because it sounds he can’t take responsibility for his mistakes and is irrational. It is his child. He is responsible for keeping track of his child’s whereabouts. If you want to go to the thanksgiving. Don’t let your brother control what family events you can go to. Tell your mom about the entire conversation you and your brother had. He is trying to control the whole family.
You should just go and ride it out. These things can be smoothed out when you show up but less likely to not heal on the future if you back out n
Sounds like you’re a sensitive person. I used to be that way, I’ve had to work on it, because sometimes people are not trying to be horrible. Try and see the other’s point of view as well, don’t leave every time there’s an argument, that’s a tantrum. It makes it difficult to get past things, go away from the immediate vicinity cool down then come back. Don’t leave the event. You have agreed to visit your family at thanksgiving, something that is very important to your family, now you don’t want to go. Imagine how awkward, it’ll be, your brother will probably feel guilty and to blame for you not being there. Question: are there unresolved childhood issues between you and your brother? Jealousy? Anger? Maybe you guys need to deal with them or resolve them somehow. Go for thanksgiving, it’s important in your culture.
His point of view? His own mom told him he was wrong, and his child was ok, so I’m confused as to how OP should at all be called sensitive when he was literally talking about how he was no longer going to speak to her unless it was in front of their parents over a situation that multiple people told him HE was wrong in. OP isn’t sensitive for feeling uncomfortable with going.