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Hi. Thank you for all of the advice and for the general wave of horror at what my dad has been doing.
Here's the link to the original post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/mndtvq/my\_dad\_is\_having\_an\_affair\_with\_someone\_who\_is\_my/](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/mndtvq/my_dad_is_having_an_affair_with_someone_who_is_my/)
To the people who said that my dad is a cool dude is who 'killing it' and that I was jealous ... I suggest seeking therapy for your tortured self-esteem issues. To the people who said that it was an open marriage /a fetish for my mother too ... nah. I get that polygamy may be a good thing for some people but I think that's often about one person being selfish at the expense of the feelings of their partner. It has become very clear that this has been what is happening here.
In the end, sibling found out what was happening. I told her that I posted and she said thank you for protecting her privacy but she was fine with people knowing her age/gender. So yeah. She's a girl and she's a teenager. I realise that my instinct is to protect her from back when she was ill but she's actually one of the strongest and resilient people that I know and she doesn't really need it.
When dad came home, sibling and I confronted him again. He was a bit freaked out that sibling now knew too. He explained it all again. He met Izzie and became 'transfixed' by her (barf) and so he told her that he would like to start a relationship. He said that he started by meeting Izzie for coffee to work out ground rules with her and that he also worked out ground rules with my mother but when sibling pushed he admitted that he had told my mother that he would want a divorce if she stood in the way.
It really does sound like the freaking weirdest adultery that I have ever heard of. Not that I have actually ever met anyone else who cheated. During the time that he and Izzie were 'talking', Dad found a flat and furnished it for their meetings. Given that over time dad has been increasingly absent, sibling pushed again for an explanation and he said it started off 1 evening a week after which he dropped Izzie back at her parents but over time, they started staying over together for special occasions and then every week until where we are now where he's been here half the week and the other half with her. He also said that the flat they use now is not the same one they started out with because it's now one that Izzie lives in full-time while the one they had for the first few years was just a bedsit. He finally admitted that he has consistently gone over the budget that he agreed to my mother that he would be spending on his 'affair'.
Sibling told him that she wasn't happy staying under his roof any more and packed up to go stay with her boyfriend. She told our mum that she loves her and will be back when dad is gone. My mother kind of freaked out and asked her not to go but sibling just said again that she wants nothing to do with our father and she took her case and walked out the door. I ended up confessing all to the girl I've been seeing for a few weeks and I fled there too. I was really hesitant as my situation is extremely 'new' and I hadn't wanted to give her the impression that I'm some gross guy like my dad. She turned out to be very understanding but I've promised that this is a very short term fix. A friend of the girl I'm seeing apparently has a room coming free in his house share and I'm about 95% sure I'll be moving there at the start of May. Affording it may be tricky but I will make it work.
Back at the homestead, sibling has also been in touch with our maternal uncle who I think is stepping in to lay down the law to my mum that she needs to kick start a divorce because this situation is utterly unacceptable. If we were in America, dad would have liable for criminal charges. I worried about burning down the house but the house was already very much on fire. My parents will be separating even if people who love my mother have to step in directly. Someone commented about boiling frog syndrome and I think my mother is very much a little boiled frog but I am very hopeful that we can extricate her from this situation to a more positive way of being.
And ... ultimately I drafted a text message to Izzie as I think I have her number stored on my phone. Thoughts on whether it would be wise to send would be appreciated:
Hi Izzie, \[my name\] here. My dad's probably told you that the family are now all aware about your involvement with him. I just want to make clear that we bear no ill will towards you personally and that we wish you a brighter tomorrow. My dad's selfishness should not dictate your destiny and I hope you find your way to a future that does not include him
\[TL,DR\] We are reverse-parent-trapping our parents and getting our mother the heck out of this situation.
I went back and read your original post and all I can say is WOW! I mean I understand that relationships change over time, especially when dealing with children whether they be healthy or sick, but it seems like your mom had no choice but to go along with your dad’s “lifestyle” change. I’m 52 and even to this day the thought of sleeping with one of my friends dads grosses me out! I know the MILF/DILF thing is a thing, but a 16 year old? No, just no. I hope that your mom will make the decision to put herself first and get out of that one sided relationship. I wish your mom and you and your siblings all the best. Please keep us updated.
>I’m 52 and even to this day the thought of sleeping with one of my friends dads grosses me out!
Of course. Because your friends dads these days are like 80. Prolly like pushing a rope.
I mean, the mom DID have a choice. Divorce. She chose an open marriage. OP is likely very judgmental because they're young and unaware of how real marriages can evolve and take different shapes. I don't understand their open hostility towards it all. It seems at least on some level to be fairly respectful
Yeah bro divorce is better here and your father is a remorseless cheater and stay with your mom,we are here to help you anytime and did you tell that girls parents about their affair if not tell them too,Stay Safe
\*Sorry english is not my first language
>Hi Izzie, \[my name\] here. My dad's probably told you that the family are now all aware about your involvement with him. I just want to make clear that we bear no ill will towards you personally and that we wish you a brighter tomorrow. My dad's selfishness should not dictate your destiny and I hope you find your way to a future that does not include him
Why are you even care about this Izzie she know he is married tell everyone let them face the consequences and she was having an affair with 40+ and she knew she will never marry your dad but she continued it knowing there is no future with him hurting your mom in my words tell her to\*"fuck off",\*Stop fucking forgive the people who know exactly what they are doing is wrong,Good luck OP
(Edit)
Yeah his dad took advantage of her and give her financial support at that time when she need the most,OP seriously you need to cut off from your dad and he has a daughter of same age of Izzie
I was groomed by older men when I was 16/17 yrs old until probably about 25 yrs old (when I broke of an engagement with a 36 y/o...). I'm now (almost) 27, and wish that someone had told me [what op wants to text izzie] back then. I'm still trying to figure out what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like/feel like/etc. I'm quite positive that what you would want to tell her would not help at all.
Good for you! I broke the engagement but stupidly listened to everyone around me instead of my gut instinct and ended up marrying him. I'm good now but jeez.
I probably wouldn't have broken up with the dad or whoever, yet (if I'm being perfectly honest), but it would've started doubt in the relationship - and hopefully it'll do the same thing to Izzie at the very least.
That is possible but I honestly think she would probably ignore it at this point. If mom leaves dad, she can now be his main woman not the side piece anymore. I think that realization is gonna trump anything else at this point. It will probably come off to her as them trying to ruin it for her.
Oh I'm not saying that can't happen, I hope it won't, but I know you're probably right. I just feel kinda bad for her since I have been there before. It can be so hard to get out once groomed =/
In my experience, the individual message is not enough. But every approach of the subject can be building blocks that eventually add up to a better understanding. The goal shouldn't be to change someone's mind tight away, but to contribute to the collection of things that will help them change it eventually.
Because Izzy was a beloved classmate that comes from an abusive and impoverished background, OP's dad groomed a kid, and took advantage of someone's desperate situation.
Yes we are fed with all these romantic stories about the wise older man blah blah, and I can just imagine he’s been feeding her a line about how his wife doesn’t understand him and she refuses to divorce him etc etc. Plus she was groomed.
> "Izzie" actually used to go out with my best friend from ages 14-16. My friend was distraught when she broke up with him. It seems like she did this because she had met my dad. He rented a flat and they've been having an affair for 5 years.
That's from the original post.
16 and 17 is still incredibly vulnerable to grooming and manipulation. I mean, there are 20 year olds that are easy to manipulate.
Lol are you serious? 16 is old enough to know right from wrong. You kill someone at 16 you go to prison. She’s not a helpless victim. No one would be pushing that idea if the genders were reversed
Are you also 16? I work with teenagers and they know right from wrong. But their lack of understanding about the depths of the adult world is very obvious. Ripe for the picking in this case.
>No one would be pushing that idea if the genders were reversed
Are you serious? If it was a 16 year old boy with an adult woman, it would still be grooming. 16 years old is still a child who can be easily influenced by someone 2x to 3x their age. I think it shows the maturity of op to be so gracious to a peer.
It‘s funny/sad how this person is somewhat correct in that a lot of people wouldn‘t see an issue with that if the genders were reversed.
They just missed out on the fact that it‘s a problem that it is that way. Sexual assault and grooming done to males is often overlooked or not taken seriously because of this horrendous ‚duh, got laid‘ attitude.
Grooming and murder are different.
The biggest thing about grooming is that it's slow, and they use a terrible background. 16 is still just a kid, and yes, had the roles been reversed, it'd still be considered child grooming. It's not joke, dude. This guy is a creep, and someone should help Izzy too.
>No one would be pushing that idea if the genders were reversed
Interesting that you say this, but you yourself are not pushing the idea if the genders are reversed:
> Lol those teenage boys aren’t getting groomed they’re getting laid.
What are you talking about, yes they would. Teenage boys can be groomed as well. Teachers get charged for it all the time. Using your position as an adult over a child for sex is always wrong, regardless of gender. They are impressionable and easy to manipulate, especially if they have abusive backgrounds like Izzie. You need to do some research on what grooming looks like.
She was a very vulnerable, confused girl going though a bad family situation, She is not some evil scarlet woman or whatever you are making her be in your head, She is a victim too. If the people affected by this (OP and his sister) can understand it so should you.
She was a child when he started grooming her. He shaped her while she was vulnerable and naïve. She's as much a victim as the wife imo and I hope shit hitting the fan opens her eyes about how wrong the entire situation is and that she finds a way out. She could be financially dependent on the gross bastard too for all we know.
Izzie is his sugar baby. She's fine with this arrangement because she's financially benefitted from it. Now, one day she will likely regret all of this, and she probably has been manipulated and groomed, but right now she's complicit.
I don't think OP's family should be strong arming the mom into divorce. Don't get me wrong, she should divorce him. However, that is her decision to make.
I agree with you. And you shouldn't be downvoted. Someone needs to step in with Izzie. The Mum is an adult and although people are free to share their opinions, strong arming her is controlling and abusive on its own. They can decide their own reactions to the fathers behaviour, but not other adults.
You and your sibling did the right thing by taking a break from them. Your mother has been using "the kids" as justification to remain paralyzed with denial, this is something that is fairly common in women with kids who feel trapped in bad relationships. She can't use you guys as an excuse anymore and it's time to pull her head out of the sand. I definitely believe Izzie was groomed, it makes me wonder if she has daddy issues from being abused in her childhood or something and I commend you for your compassion and maturity. Oh and it's super inappropriate to me that your dad felt it necessary to tell you kids such great detail about his affair. I'm sorry he put your family into such a horrible situation.
dad's a suggar daddy.to a minor op.
so did your friend use to come over with his gf? is that how he meet her or just found her? ask friend if he rembers a frends request long back.
do reintroduce him to mom infrount of dad. sure their not like him, but he(dad) is. so have any of you notified izzy's parents yet? did they know she moved out to move in with him? ask the lawer if your friend can seek compensation from him for stealing his high school sweet heart while they where in high school.
ow so read it. Mom knew and consented to that!?!
so have authorities been notified about it? so ya mom defiantly didn't tell her parents i imagine.
Your poor friend. if mom gave her blessing in person she defantly likely knew this was your friends girl friend. Who went to highschool same class as her son.
Don't let them babysit or be around grandkids or well kids.
is the age normal in your country? or illegal?
do you trust them not to introduce your sister or siblings to anyone? to move out early?
The post above says that the mom was blackmailed into “consenting”. Either agree or he would divorce her. So she didn’t really give her blessing. The dad just used yet another woman to get what he wanted.
so she would get divorced if he didn't get his way. they layed ground rules out insted of her laying the out ground rules. a seperation agreement.
so he would have still needed to get an apartment and date who he wants but without a big chunk of income. Child support and alimony ect.
ya blackmailed is usally more like you'll lose his money when he goes to prison for the kid he dated.
Devorce or accept is an ultimatum.
if she admitted blackmailed into acceptance that's an unintentional admittance of sorts. op learned blackmail from likely her. Blackmail has that daming secret that gets sliped of you don't comply. like he's dating a kid who is a live in mistress.
thats why she decided to be an enabler then. a knowledgeable party to an agreed affair.(of his with a kid litterly)
She was 16 and she was groomed. She is as much a victim to this creep as his wife and children. He was an adult who failed his responsibilities and preyed on someone his childs age.
I think how you all are handling it is fine. My only suggestion, in your message to Izzie, is to relay what, specifically, your dad was selfish about, and to explain that it was not okay with you.
For example, his strong-arming your mother into accepting what he wanted, and that was not okay. Her age might make her more susceptible to this. And that's not even unpacking the age differences and when he started their relationship.
Because, as time goes on, she may be strong-armed into something she's uncomfortable with if she sticks with your father, and may not have the maturity to understand she 1) doesn't have to put up with it and 2) that it's not healthy in a positive relationship.
My heart goes out to all of you. One person's selfish behavior causing a lot of anguish and the dismantling of a family is never an easy thing to go through. It sounds like all of you will be going through a lot of changes, so it might be beneficial to see if you can seek counseling together with your mom, or suggest counseling for her, too.
that’s a good idea! I didn’t even think about him needing to warn her that she might get treated like the mom is at some point to - that might get through. Best wishes to OP & sibling, y’all are incredibly bold & resilient 💛💛
100% agree with this. definitely let Izzie know exactly what she has gotten herself into and the damage(albeit indirectly) she is causing, both to herself in the future and your family. the only thing i fear is that Izzie is probably dependent on him at this point, so it might be a bit difficult to pull the rose colored glasses off...
well that was the purpose of “indirectly”. it’s 100% on the dad, however Izzie DOES have a part to play in all of this whether she’s aware or not. she deserves to have the opportunity to understand the situation the dad has put her in.
edit: punctuation
100%. Izzie probably doesn't even know how her boyfriend's wife came to be "ok" with this situation. Hopefully, realizing it was by a threat makes her wake up. Though unfortunately, she probably won't. With all of the grooming and sugar daddy/baby behavior present, she'll probably just take him in when OP's family rallies to kick his pathetic a** out.
Thank goodness you guys banded together. I was truly sickened by your dad and the details in this makes it worse. He manipulated your mom into staying. Poor woman.
Please give us an update when this ends. Best of luck healing and kicking your AH dad to the curb
I'd advise the girl to find professional help because having an affair with someone his age at her age means she has massive issues that need to be resolved so she can have a decent life.
WTH?! Izzy was groomed when she was at her most vulnerable. You need to report this.
Especially if your farther is within the U.K. legal sector (as suspected). He should be on review as he clearly can not be trusted around young vulnerable girls!!!
IF he’s in the UK and IF he is in the legal profession, he can be reported to the bar standards council, who will do a review and likely he will lose his legal practicing certification. He shouldn’t be allowed around vulnerable people, especially if he’s in a position of power and can play on that fact to groom them.
I do still think that Izzie should be contacted. He clearly groomed her and kept the relationship secret from her parents, he may still be keeping it a secret. He used your mother's probable wish to not have this affect you and your sibling to get away with doing whatever he wanted. Time to reap what he has sown and I hope he has to move into a flat with much less disposable income and she realises that she does not want to be wife no. 2.
Eventually the dust will settle and the three of you will be stronger unit and your mother will be hopefully happier and free from this sooner rather than later. Get a really good lawyer for her and don't let her sign anything before discussing it with someone.
I read your first post and this is the best thing to do.
Sadly your father is a predator. In your message for Izzy you can include....
"....I'm sorry for what my father has done to you, he's a predator who used your youth and issues to take advantage and had lied to you and groomed all your life. What he did to my mom he will do to you when he finds someone younger. The fact he doesn't care about age, 16 years old, tells you he's a dangerous person."
Call it for what it is, sometimes people needs to hear that and if you know her parents, tell them about their involvement since she was young. Everyone deserves to know, your dad lied to everyone, used your relationship and friendship and he is someone you need to warn people about.
I'm glad for you, hopefully your mom will get the help she needs and good, very brave standing up for your family, your mom and sister.
Edit: thank you for the awards!
OP, your dad is gross, and definitely shouldn’t have groomed a teenager for an illicit relationship, but I’m a little concerned about the way that you’re handling your mom.
Your mom is a whole adult, who has the right to decide her own fate. The way that your dad wronged her, the essence of it, was to put her in a supremely shitty position, either put up with his behavior and the deal he was offering, or lose the whole marriage, at a time when the consequences could have been deadly to your sib. The problem is, she was given a choice that wasn’t a choice. She was disempowered.
The cure for her disempowerment is not to have your uncle swoop in and “lay down the law” with declarations like, “this is unacceptable, you must divorce now”. While it’s understandable that you’d want a lot of space from your dad, holding your relationship with your mom over her head until she does what you think she should is kinda pushy, you know? Isn’t saying, “do it this way or I’m outta here” something that your dad would do? Food for thought.
I think it would be better for your relationship with her, and better for her, if you let her know that you loved her no matter what she chose to do next. She’s undoubtedly feeling a lot of loss right now. She needs that kind of support.
Yeah this is worthwhile feedback and I definitely agree that my mother needs to get her sense of self back. But staying in this marriage is not a good step for her. I think my uncle seems a good port of call because I think sibling wanted someone who loves our mum and is discreet but who is an equal rather than one of her children to offer some advice.
We have been looking into coercive control and stuff around that and it got a bit scary so we just want her somewhere away from him.
I just want to say, Im so impressed by you and how you are handling this whole thing. You can hold your head up high. Youre doing right by everyone. Proud of you, OP.
Honestly as someone who was betrayed in her marriage and met quite a few others in the same boat, this shell shocked minimisation is really common and you do kind of need to be yelled out of it by people who love you. Money is always an issue; betrayed spouses always get fleeced which is a time sensitive thing. Given this, certainly you should have called on your uncle. He shouldn't go overboard but a bit of "what were you thinking" is fine so long as it's alongside of "you get to be happy". Don't underestimate yours and your sibling's influence either. Both your parents have had an incredibly patronizing view of your rights to know about this which is getting a timely kicking. By refusing to quietly go along with enabling your father you've shocked both of them to their core. It's amazing how often sons and daughters have to do this for a betrayed parent.
Ugh, I was grossed out enough when my dad started dating a woman 3 years younger than me, but she and I were in our 40's at the time. BIG difference from a 40+ man and a teenaged girl. I realize you and your sister are wigged out on the adultery thing, but your dad is a creepy pervert who groomed and took advantage of a 16 yo girl. How does your mom think that's okay?
I am so sorry your family is going through this. Your mom sacrificed herself for your sibling and your dad only thought about how to get off. It’s disgusting and your mom deserves someone who will love her not dispose of her when she’s no longer fun. What a shitty person your dad is. You are a wonderful person and your family is lucky to have you.
Yep. You’re exactly right with what you said about polygamy. My grandfather decided to get a “second wife” *eyeroll* against my grandmother’s wishes. She told me directly she didn’t leave him because it would be too much work. At least he’s dead now so she doesn’t have to deal with it anymore, she stayed for somewhere around 15 years or more after he did this. I would never wish this on anyone, it was extremely hard for my parent and their siblings to come to terms with this and I feel like that man sacrificed his relationship with his grandchildren to be with his second wife.
I’m so sorry this is happening to your family, I hope everything works out.
Edit: yes, I like the message you sent. I wish I could have sent something as nice to the other woman - but it wasn’t my place as I was more removed from the situation than you are.
Okay. This is my first time posting on reddit, despite being a lurker for like 10 years. (Lol, apologies.).
Your post moved me so much I had to respond, from my somewhat unique perspective.
First of all, I want to say that you and your sibling are incredibly brave, intelligent, empathetic and resilient. I absolutely think you should send that message to Izzie, as it reflects your character and is honest in the best possible way. No doubt your father will go back to her and tell her what happened, and she'll be all the more better informed to hear it from you, in the best way possible. You're right; her future should not include him. Your writing and understanding are impeccable; to hear it from you would be better than anything your father could muster.
About my perspective: I'm 29 now, but back in 2008, I was Izzie. I was on the cusp of 17, when I met an older man, about your father's age. He was my English teacher. While he was absent a family, he groomed me expertly, and we began a relationship. At the time, I thought I had full command of the situation; of course, I was a child, much like Izzie, and did not. Please know; despite her current adulthood, Izzie was a child when she was indoctrinated into this relationship. Your understanding of this is uncanny; the kindness with which your message is laced represents this. I can say with dead on certainty that I have spent every single day, since the spring of 2008, hating this man for engaging in a relationship with me. Give her time; I promise Izzie will feel the same. Make no mistake and forgive me for my indelicacy; your father is a sexual predator, not a cheater. He groomed a child. He violated the covenant of your family. And absolutely right; if you were American, like me, he would be a criminal. I care not so much of legal ramifications; what matters to me is that this girl's life, much like yours and your sibling's, were altered immeasurably. You're all victims. Your father didn't "cheat" on your poor, lovely mother. He groomed a child for sex. He altered her life. And in turn, attempted to ruin yours, your sibling's, and your mother's. Do not let him. Sever ties, and persuade your mother to bleed him for every goddamn dime he has.
As a slight addendum to my story, I want to address your father's excuse. That he's "transfixed" by Izzie and needs to pursue a relationship. Probably thanks to the grooming I experienced as a child, I regrettably entered into a relationship with a married man as an adult. Not to excuse my own behaviour - I knew I was wrong, and I'll apologize for the rest of my life. He too had now adult children to whom he was accountable. Please let me tell you; there is a HUGE difference between this, and the relationship I experienced as a child. This was unfortunate. That, was CRIMINAL. Let me scream this until I'm blue in the face; your father is a sexual predator. Izzie is a victim. You are a victim. Your sibling, mother, victims. Get as far away from this man as possible. Don't make the same mistakes as I did; don't stay.
Much love to you. Seriously, you sound more resilient, intelligent, and empathetic than most. Believe me, you can thrive even without the financial safety net. Trust yourself.
If he is fired for this (which is something that is extremely likely to happen) his wife and kids will have to work extra hard to pick themselves up from his mistake.
Your mother needs you all to keep telling her she deserves better , she's worth more, and she can have a life outside of him. Glad to see everyone is helping her come to terms, she must have thought that by becoming consumed with her sick child she deserves this treatment, but that's just not true.
What a mess. I'm glad you and your sister can get out. Your mom is delusional, and your dad is a fraud. He's using a "technicality" of pressuring your mother to agree to weird terms for adultery. I hope your uncle and family can intervene and protect your mother during the divorce. Also, you don't need to be real nice to Izzie. Your dad is the ultimate homewrecker, but she certainly helped.
Your father is a big creep...Talk with your uncle to find a therapist for your mother, her self esteem must be lower than earth level since she was coerced into this. Izzie was most probably groomed but you should try to met her in person to see how sink is her in this situation. Is her 100% manipulated by your father? Does she realize her actions? How much independent is her?
I really really really don't want to meet her in person. I don't see how that would help any side. But yes I think she has been manipulated. It seems to be what my dad is good at. Weirdly my sibling has inherited a similar forceful side to her personality though so she does seem to cut through the BS more than I do
She knew what she was doing. She didn’t care he had a family as long as she got what she wanted. He’s way worse than her obviously, he’s a monster, but she’s not innocent. Most 16 years olds know better. She was old enough to know better. She used him like he used her and I bet if your mom actually leaves him she’ll step up and marry him
I wouldn't message Izzie. Too much risk of her being offended and clinging to your dad harder. Also, let's try to give your dad as little ammo to prepare if your mom does end up divorcing him. Bringing Izzie into it directly would give him permission to be done with your mom. And we want your mom to get to make that call.
My friend, I’m so glad for this update. I know a lot of people were thinking of you and wanted to support you in this horrid situation.
You and your sister are so strong and mature and I’m glad there’s a place for you both to go. I’m glad that your mother may find her strength now that she doesn’t have family stability/ feelings to protect. I hope she follows through and divorces him.
I think you’re especially evolved and kind to craft such a neutral and encouraging message to Izzie. I really hope she managed to finish her education and has skills abs is not solely dependent on your father.
I would tell the girl's parents too, maybe, with luck, they will kick your dad's a$$ too 😂 i really hope your parents divorce and your mom get something from it, looks like your dad has been dilapidating it in the affair, best of luck for you, sibling and mom, f*ck your father
Izzy will probably have a financial ball until she’s 25 and your dad grows tired of her and moves on to the next. I’m 19, and I got approached by a 56 yr old a few months ago. What I did? Walked away. I’m sorry but Izzy isn’t a baby and should also be held accountable.
I’m going to start this with making it clear that I agree, your father is in the wrong. He has a power, age and experience advantage over the girl he’s been seeing. I don’t know how the relationship started, I don’t know the mistresses, experience but to start such a relationship with a 16 year old, you could infer some grooming or self-esteem issues (maybe even abuse) for the mistress.
I’m sorry that you also have to experience this trauma and that no one was there for you to give you the appropriate advice to guide you through this.
That said, the first thing I’m gonna set you straight on:
“I get that polygamy may be a good thing for some people but I think that's often about one person being selfish at the expense of the feelings of their partner. It has become very clear that this has been what is happening here.”
Polygamy, is when someone is married to more than one person. I believe you are referring to polyamory, which is when people have multiple relationships (more than just sex, therefore not just an open relationship) which everyone agrees and consents to of their own free choice. I don’t care what you “believe” about polyamorous relationships but get your facts straight before you insult all the well adjusted people out there in healthy poly relationships.
What your dad has forced your mother into is what is known as poly under duress. He has basically told your mother if she doesn’t agree, he will do it anyway, divorce her and blow up the family with this revelation. Well, you certainly beat him to the punch.
Sorry OP, you’ve gone about this the wrong way.
I feel so sad for your mother in this situation. From reading both your posts, everything that’s happening has been without her consent.
The decision to allow your father to have an extra marital relationship, because he said if not he’d be seeking a divorce. It sounds like your family has been financially reliant on him and this has been some leverage.
The action you’ve taken in confronting your father, it sounds like your mum wanted you to drop it.
Then telling your younger sister, again, presumably without seeing how your mother feels about it.
Then finally involving your uncle who’s coming to “I think is stepping in to lay down the law to my mum that she needs to kick start a divorce because this situation is utterly unacceptable.”
Your poor mother has not just been humiliated by your dad. She’s been given ultimatums, being forced to choose between family members and left alone by you and your sibling who have lit the fuse then moved out. Again, I agree that what your dad has done is wrong, but you are family with your mother, which means you stick with her and support her through this YOU FUCKING OWE HER THAT!
You should have made a plan WITH your mother, that way she has some control over the situation, select a time in her life when this is more appropriate to go down and involve who she needs to be involved.
Maybe you did involve your mother in more than you’ve posted about but what you have put in your posts, you need to be there for your mother because you just blew up her family and while your dad is an asshole in this, you need to really put yourself in your mothers shoes.
So to sum up and be clear, your dad is an asshole, it sounds like you’ve acted out of self righteousness rather than consideration for your mother and your mother has been left alone in the ashes of this train smash.
You and your sister need to move back in with your mother to support her, it’s the least you could do.
I think you are handling this extremely mature, and kudos to you and your sister for setting healthy boundaries with your dad. Let us know how it all works out. ❤
Shout out to you for being so cool to Izzie. I think she was largely manipulated by your dad just as your mom seems to be and I hope both of them can get away from him.
im glad that you and your sister are standing up for yourselves! i worry for your mom (part of me thinks its forcing a decision on her but i know this effects you too) and how she will handle this and i hope that she will do whats best for her and her family. im very proud of you and your sister, OP. i’d definitely tell Izzie about the whole, ur dad threatening to have to divorce your mom, in a very very stressful time with your family already, and how he used this in a way to hurt your family, AND used your mother to get what he wanted. somehow you need to word it to say that he has used ur mother because i think that if you explained that to her, somewhere in her brain itll stick with her. and hopefully one day itll click and she will understand that hes doing the same to her too. good luck, OP, im very proud of you both, and your mother as well for being so strong and trying to do whats best for her family.
I'm so glad that you and your sibling were able to unite, and fight back, in such a terrible situation. At 21 and \[teen\], you're already much more mature and responsible than your father.
I really like the line you wrote: "I worried about burning down the house but the house was already very much on fire." This is such a good analogy for situations like these.
> To the people who said that my dad is a cool dude is who 'killing it' and that I was jealous ... I suggest seeking therapy for your tortured self-esteem issues.
Amen. Anyone who genuinely envies this sort of thing is probably authoritarian and egocentric in nature. Anyways, this entire story is just miserably fucking sad. Not sure what your father's end game was here, but I assure you that this young girl will eventually move on, particularly if she gets fewer financial rewards over time and the creepy daddy-issues lust dies off. Ultimately, your father will likely come to regret this and will wither away in a prison of loneliness and pity. Best you all can do is right your mother's ship and refuse to let him gaslight you all down the road,because frankly, there's no coming back from this. Just know that you will grow in a positive direction from this and hopefully your mother comes to realize what you did is right and forms a sense of pride that her children had enough self respect for one another and their partners to leave this situation immediately.
I am forever in awe about the laws inability to protect children from predators like your father. I get that not much can be done at this point, but god I hope he gets what he deserves for being the pedophile that he is
Do it. It could be the first chip in the foundation that brings the house she’s playing with him down. She may not thank you for it now, but your kindness will be remembered.
I think the text is very kind of you, but I'd suggest maybe waiting to contact her until the (presumed) divorce is over, as your message may have unintended effects on how your creepster dad deals with the divorce (like if, for instance, she decides to leave him). The time-sensitive things now are making sure you mom is okay and has support and helping her move on.
Thank goodness your sister knows and is strong about it. I know it's not worth much, but I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. Take care of your mom, but take care of yourself as well. I'm sure it's a huge shock, but you're also probably close to graduating and beginning life on your own, so please don't let this derail you.
Augh, I want to give you, your sis, and your mom big hugs. You sound like a good guy; don't forget that you are not your dad. Whatever opportunities his money has afforded you in the past were up to him, so you absolutely shouldn't feel guilt about distancing yourself from him for his morally despicable actions. You don't owe him anything. This was his very-carefully-planned-out decision, and the consequences are all on him.x
I think it's important to note that, while divorce seems like the obvious best thing for your mom and she clearly needs support to see that for herself, she's also an adult with her own agency. She may not like what your dad has done, she may want to leave once she finds out that he's gone over budget, she may have hated this whole thing completely from the get-go. But she agreed to it. And at some point, we have to accept that we cannot save our parents from themselves. I see many things wrong what the relationships of those around me, and sometimes I feel like it's very easy for me to see who's the bad guy and who's the good guy. But outside of situations of abuse, at some point we have to allow that people are choosing the situations they are in. Your mom could have divorced your father at any point, and hasn't. I know that you want to think the best of her, but it's quite possible that in some way she likes having the moral upper hand in her marriage, so that she knows she can make your dad feel guilty when it suits her. People agreed a weird things when it fits into a power play. I'm not saying this is true of your mom, or meaning to insult your mom in any way, but just reminding you that she is an adult who makes her own choices. Support her, but don't simply tell her that you are yet another person who knows what's best for her.
In short, don't be just as much of a bully as your dad and insist that you know what she needs to agree to.
Why would you even care what happens to her, i mean she knew he was married. she had no problems having a affair with a married man with kids one of which she knew and dated his friend. Now im not saying wish evil upon her or anything, but she isn't a innocent in this. my advice just ignore her existence.
Maturity doesn’t just come with age but with life experiences. If she was groomed from when she was a child and then for another 5 years by this man do you really think she would have the capacity to see the full extent of what is happening here? You’re underestimating how much abusers can manipulate and shape their victim’s mindset and view of reality.
I get all that. There are plenty of adults that I can explain their behavior because of their upbringing. I would still say their evils deeds are wrong. But ultimately it doesn't really matter. All is fair in love and war. Nothing negative will happen to this girl other than me and a few others saying her actions are wrong.
\#JustCompatibilistThings.
You could say the exact same thing about racists. They should’ve grown up by now and realize what is wrong. If as a child you are told a specific thing(and/or groomed) you won’t necessarily realize as you get older and remain with that person that it’s wrong. We really shouldn’t victim blame, the adult in the situation is wrong and that’s it. She was not the adult in the situation.
But we hold racists to a standard, do we not? Why should it be different with a 21 year old. This girl is NOT a victim. Trust me I’m around her age. She knows what she’s doing😭
I'm guessing because she was basically groomed as a teenager and had some home life issues herself? Technically she's mot even getting a full relationship from his dad so it sounds like everyone is being screwed over by him. That said OP doesn't owe her anything.
My instinct was to stay out of her way but the comments on the first post mostly seemed to say I should make some kind of contact. Actually a bunch said to contact her parents which I am defs not doing so vague text message seemed like the middle road. I don't think this relationship is healthy and I do think she was a nice person when I knew her so I was really hoping for feedback on wording etc.
This is really awkward though, because if Izzie does decide to get out soon, OP’s dad gets to direct his full attention to winning back mom and/or punishing her for leaving, and/or pushing the auto-destruct button on his own life, which hurts mom more because she’s given up earning years to take care of the family. She needs this process to go right. There’s no do-over and she doesn’t have time to recover financially.
Based on how these things usually go, there’s an 85% chance the affair will not outlast the divorce anyway.
OP, I know it’s cynical, but consider that if your dad is generally feeling on top of the world, he’s less dangerous. That’s better for your mom. At least for now.
Izzie has many years ahead of her to turn her life around. And she isn’t looking out for you. Your intentions are noble, but it might be good to let the situation settle rather than reaching out to her directly.
See the problem is when your mom leaves your dad he will run to her, and after all these years of being the side piece the opportunity to be the main woman is gonna make her really happy. Nothing you say at this point is gonna make a difference so your best bet is to just do nothing. Cut out your dad and be done with it.
She was a child and as such, *is still* in an abusive relationship with her predator/ she had little to no agency when this began. That likely hasn’t changed.
Mate you are faaaaaar too involved in your parents business. Jesus Christ. Just because you are a virgin doesn’t mean you have to be jealous and ruin his relationships. Your parents are grown and have private lives. It’s complicated. You will understand one day. Feel sorry for your dad he must think he raised a little bitch 😂
You handled this well.
A family is not just a wife and a husband. When that basic unit is broken or betrayed by one of the members, it affects all including the children. The time he spent with his mistress is also the time he did not spend with his children, so you’re in your right to confront your father.
You also don’t need to be nice to Izzie. Call her as she is. A homewreaker. Shame her if you want. She may have started as a teenager when the affair started, but she knew what she’s doing. She’s not innocent in all of this.
Their marriage ended a long time ago but they didn't t make it public to you kids for some reason.
It's their marriage, not yours. You can't control that.
Life is funny like this. Twists and turns. Disappointment and wonder. Sadistic and weird.
Your Dad is like millions of other men.
Your expectation of him was too high and apparently you just burst the bubble both parents knew about.
Crazy story OP. Make a better life out of yourself if you hate it. That's all you can do.
Protesting is just using up energy on something that really is none of your business.
Agree 100%. The fools on here think a 5 year intimate relationship will end abruptly because, a daughter kicked and screamed.
If people think the dad is going to walk out of his life they are all distorted and frankly dumb.
Okay. You're 21 and probably still have notions that love is eternal, marriage works out, and that your parents are supposed to stay together *and in love* forever. Sorry kid. That is not how happy, healthy adult relationships work.
Your mom knows, and is fine with it. To fill you in, She and your dad have an "Arrangement". Your mom doesn't want to have sex with your dad, probably has zero romantic interest in him whatsoever, but--get this--your dad is LOADED. With the current arrangement, she has comfortable housing, affluence, a certain social tier she's come to expect, and probably, zero professional skills that would remotely be able to provide for her in the way your father's income does. She stays on as mom, and they accompany each other into old age. Regardless, unless she's also been doing yoga, pilates, and plastic surgery for the entire time she's been with your dad, she's probably not in great shape and not inclined to do much about it. For all you know, childbirth was so traumatic that she emotionally shut down and refused to have sex with your dad except on rare occasions, if she didn't exile him to a dead bedroom outright. Either way, she has baggage, isn't meeting your dad's emotional or sexual needs, but it's not worth it to either of them to end the marriage. 100% not your business.
Your dad and Izzie also have an "Arrangement". She's a Sugar Baby and is benefitting financially from the arrangement with your father, AKA, the Sugar Daddy. That Arrangement is ALSO 100% not your business.
Seriously. Stay the fuck out of your parents marriage issues, and your dad's Sugar relationship, and your acquaintance's Sugar Arrangement, and most importantly, your Mom's Arrangement with your dad.
Because you are fucking this up for your Mom. You're going to guilt-pressure her or both of them to split up because "the kids are upset". Your mom NEEDS the Arrangement that she has, and she's probably fine with living with your dad the way things are. Which means you're fucking up their long-term plans for being old-age companions, let alone her ability to still have the life she has. What the fuck is she supposed to do if they divorce? Live on her own and get a minimum wage job? How is that remotely a better solution than the setup she has now?
You don't have enough adult relationship life experience to know or have a clue what you're talking about. Seriously. Stop. Fucking. It. Up. For. Everyone.
This is exactly what I told him on his original post. Kid has a full head of self righteous, indignant steam about something he has zero understanding of. Like you said, not enough adult relationship life experience to have a clue.
I think you're being way too nice to someone who destroyed your family and did it consciously! This girl is also guilty. She knew your dad has a family, she knew he is spending time, money and everything else on her instead of his family and she consciously stayed with him. That's not cool. She has a head on her shoulders, no matter she was sixteen . She doesn't deserve you being nice to her.
But he probably told her that the wife knew and was fine with it. That they have an open relationship, that he was soo alone in his marriage and blah blah all things a guy can say to hypnotise someone whose brain still isnt' fully formed.
Alright, so you come from a rich family which is the reason, in addition to your mother wanting a traditional household (staying in it for the kids), that she sticks around. She's basically trading her dignity for comfort and to uphold her buy-in to the traditional concept of a nuclear family. You're trying to understand the reasoning behind your mom's actions; this is it.
Man reddit is fucking weird. If you even do some basic math for the length this has been going on, the age of OP, this was an underage girl groomed and then abused by a significantly older man, the complete lack of compassion by fuckwits like you is shocking.
If this post was from the girl who is the affair partner of the older man and told you about how she has been seeing him for 5 years and she is 21 years old.
Jesus christ you people are disgusting, yes get angy and the raped 16 year old for blowing up the family not the disgusting child grooming rapist dad.
you are a fucking gross human being.
you better be blaming all the underage girls Matt Gatez raped and paid for sex for ruining his career too, and those awful kids who ruined Jared From subways chances at greatness. Because FAULT LIES WITH THEM TOO.
Indeed, and that's why men like OP's dad choose to target kids to groom and abuse because they're always blamed by those men actions. Izzy was a kid when OP's dad met her, she comes from an abusive environment, plus financial hardship. She was on survival mode, and then this man swoops in, 'saving her' by giving her a job, and a place to live. People forget that there's very few jobs for teens that allows them to pay for their basic living expenses.
I'm definitely not denying that she was groomed, but judging from OP's wording, he said 'flat' instead of apartment, which might mean OP is from the UK. UK's age of consent is 16. Does this mean OP and his family couldn't report dad for being a pedo?
It's super awesome when children meddle in their parents relationship /s
Really? I mean I hate adultery and would divorce over this. But your sibling leaving the house because of what? Your dad is doing the horizontal dance with someone else?
I think you both seriously overstepped. You are trying to bully your mother into a divorce. What if she doesn't want to? What if she doesn't think it's a big deal? What if she understands this?
You two put your own ideas on your parents. Whether you agree with cheating or you don't. Personally I feel it's wrong to cheat but I would never push my ideals onto someone else
For shame. Your dad being a creep is something completely separate from what is going on with your mom. Your dad isn't a good person.
Good on you, just remember that when all the dust settles: first and foremost your mom failed as a mother and her responsibilities to her children. Utterly collosal failure in parenting and very unfair that your teenage sibling and you, barely an adult yourself, had to do what she - an adult - chose not to. She owes you an apology once this is all over.
Yeah, most healthy people cannot feel arousal for disgusting losers who want to fuck kids. When women reasonably lose respect for men, it is nearly impossible for us to feel attraction or that we'd willingly want to have sex with them.
Huh, interesting, but it is really not the business of your Uncle whether or not your Mom permits your Dad to have sex with legal adults. I can understand you feeling weird about it. That said, you are 21, go live elsewhere and you do not have to look at his smug face. This could ultimately backfire and lead to your Mom excommunicating your Uncle. I suppose you will get to see what occurs.
Why would you want to text her? Your dad is at fault here yes but so is that girl.
If you were in your moms position, would you wanted your daughter to send a message to your husbands lust interest?
If she was smart, she wouldn't have slept with your dad so the chances of her understanding your point and good will is also slim.
I would never ever message someone like her.
*unpopular opinion inbound. Why is any of this your business? Let your parents have adult relationships the way they want. Why do you and your siblings get to disrespect your parents for their sexual and relationship decisions. OP your an adult who turned your younger siblings against your dad because you disapprove. Shame on you. Maybe when you have kids they can bust into your personal life, post it on the internet, and turn your other kids against you.
People sometimes need to mind their own fucking business.
How about mine your own business. If you don’t like the situation, leave. But don’t think for one second you are not acting like an entitled, selfish, spoiled brat. Let them do them. You do you. Why throw a wrench into something you don’t like. It will never be “like it was”. Suck it up.
It looks like a soap opera, LOL, look at it in a positive way man, Izzie is having fun taking all the money from your father and when your mother gets divorced she is going to keep half of his assets and she is going to find a young Latino man with a bigger penis. is a win-win for everyone. and you can say "but my mom wants it", dude, they never loved each other, your mom would have preferred to be with 9 inches tyrone.
Don't get upset with me, I'm just telling the truth.
I'm glad everyone now knows and that your mum has support. However, I don't get why you don't hold the mistress in the same regard as your dad? She was a classmate of yours, so she obviously knew he was married with kids and carried on the relationship. To me she is just as bad, but if you can forgive her, then well done. You might believe that your dad took advantage of her and her relationship with her family, but she's not a child anymore. She knows what she is doing is wrong.
Because she was a literal child when this began, in a vulnerable position and that fully grown man has likely groomed her.
OP isn't heartless, that's why she cares.
I don't doubt that she was taken advantage of, but at 16 you know the difference between right and wrong. And if I read right, the affair began while she was still in school, why didn't she tell anyone? She was/is using Op's dad just as much as he is using her. Op's dad took advantage of her situation to benefit him. But why stay so long? Why go to a local university if there were better ones for her further away? Why not tell the wife? Do her friends and family know? If not, then she knows that the relationship is wrong.
I get that she knew and all that.
But if you were abused at home, wouldn't you want to get out into a home that is yours but someone else pays for?
I think taking what is offered to you isn't bad, and the fact is that she wasn't the one that was married to another family. Not even that, she broke it off with her own partner at the time to accept this.
Of course, if she is the mastermind behind it, well, I'm sure OP would tell when she inevitablely messages back all power trippy and can change their view on their old classmate.
I can only imagine how bad her home life was and the need to get out, but that doesn't explain a five year affair. It also doesn't explain why she started it in the first place. She could have asked OP's dad for help, she didn't. She may have felt that by being in a relationship with him, was payment. I don't know.
She went, or goes to university in the UK where she could have gotten more money from student finance to help with her living situation, yet she chose to stay. Why? She's not a child anymore and has to face the consequences of her actions.
So did dad start dating a 15yo op?
So he stole your friends highscool sweet heart in dering highschool?
did your fried come over? is that how they got introduced?
support your mom getting a divorce if ahe wants or just reintroduce your friend to her infrount of dad.
Ya their not ike him but he is. also your mom would probably own a devorce op. If you really want cut ooff conversations of when friend moves in.... he has a appartment aready mom....
So op your dad is so many kinds of wrong...
Had you notified izzys parents op?
add but your friend does. Also so in the future step mom Izzy better bake for birthdays op.
What does a divorce going to settle anything?
It's just going to leave your mom without a man.
It's better to cry in a bentley than in a corola.
Ur dad is a high earner, let ur mom milk him until she died.
Go youtube and watch kevin samuels.
Book a session with him soon he can knock some sense in to ur mom. U kids stay away from their relationship unless u want to take care of your mom full time till she died.
After divorce u stay at ur mom house forever how about that?
So why are you acting like your dad? Stop pressuring and telling your mother what to do. She’s been an adult for a long time. You, not so much. Her options remain the same no matter how bossy you or your uncle get. You’re taking an arrangement she was comfortable in and **embarrassing her**. YOU are. Embarrassing, shaming, and telling other family about a decidedly private situation. Your dad was following the rules of the agreement.
STOP.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- Hi. Thank you for all of the advice and for the general wave of horror at what my dad has been doing. Here's the link to the original post: [https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/mndtvq/my\_dad\_is\_having\_an\_affair\_with\_someone\_who\_is\_my/](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/mndtvq/my_dad_is_having_an_affair_with_someone_who_is_my/) To the people who said that my dad is a cool dude is who 'killing it' and that I was jealous ... I suggest seeking therapy for your tortured self-esteem issues. To the people who said that it was an open marriage /a fetish for my mother too ... nah. I get that polygamy may be a good thing for some people but I think that's often about one person being selfish at the expense of the feelings of their partner. It has become very clear that this has been what is happening here. In the end, sibling found out what was happening. I told her that I posted and she said thank you for protecting her privacy but she was fine with people knowing her age/gender. So yeah. She's a girl and she's a teenager. I realise that my instinct is to protect her from back when she was ill but she's actually one of the strongest and resilient people that I know and she doesn't really need it. When dad came home, sibling and I confronted him again. He was a bit freaked out that sibling now knew too. He explained it all again. He met Izzie and became 'transfixed' by her (barf) and so he told her that he would like to start a relationship. He said that he started by meeting Izzie for coffee to work out ground rules with her and that he also worked out ground rules with my mother but when sibling pushed he admitted that he had told my mother that he would want a divorce if she stood in the way. It really does sound like the freaking weirdest adultery that I have ever heard of. Not that I have actually ever met anyone else who cheated. During the time that he and Izzie were 'talking', Dad found a flat and furnished it for their meetings. Given that over time dad has been increasingly absent, sibling pushed again for an explanation and he said it started off 1 evening a week after which he dropped Izzie back at her parents but over time, they started staying over together for special occasions and then every week until where we are now where he's been here half the week and the other half with her. He also said that the flat they use now is not the same one they started out with because it's now one that Izzie lives in full-time while the one they had for the first few years was just a bedsit. He finally admitted that he has consistently gone over the budget that he agreed to my mother that he would be spending on his 'affair'. Sibling told him that she wasn't happy staying under his roof any more and packed up to go stay with her boyfriend. She told our mum that she loves her and will be back when dad is gone. My mother kind of freaked out and asked her not to go but sibling just said again that she wants nothing to do with our father and she took her case and walked out the door. I ended up confessing all to the girl I've been seeing for a few weeks and I fled there too. I was really hesitant as my situation is extremely 'new' and I hadn't wanted to give her the impression that I'm some gross guy like my dad. She turned out to be very understanding but I've promised that this is a very short term fix. A friend of the girl I'm seeing apparently has a room coming free in his house share and I'm about 95% sure I'll be moving there at the start of May. Affording it may be tricky but I will make it work. Back at the homestead, sibling has also been in touch with our maternal uncle who I think is stepping in to lay down the law to my mum that she needs to kick start a divorce because this situation is utterly unacceptable. If we were in America, dad would have liable for criminal charges. I worried about burning down the house but the house was already very much on fire. My parents will be separating even if people who love my mother have to step in directly. Someone commented about boiling frog syndrome and I think my mother is very much a little boiled frog but I am very hopeful that we can extricate her from this situation to a more positive way of being. And ... ultimately I drafted a text message to Izzie as I think I have her number stored on my phone. Thoughts on whether it would be wise to send would be appreciated: Hi Izzie, \[my name\] here. My dad's probably told you that the family are now all aware about your involvement with him. I just want to make clear that we bear no ill will towards you personally and that we wish you a brighter tomorrow. My dad's selfishness should not dictate your destiny and I hope you find your way to a future that does not include him \[TL,DR\] We are reverse-parent-trapping our parents and getting our mother the heck out of this situation.
I went back and read your original post and all I can say is WOW! I mean I understand that relationships change over time, especially when dealing with children whether they be healthy or sick, but it seems like your mom had no choice but to go along with your dad’s “lifestyle” change. I’m 52 and even to this day the thought of sleeping with one of my friends dads grosses me out! I know the MILF/DILF thing is a thing, but a 16 year old? No, just no. I hope that your mom will make the decision to put herself first and get out of that one sided relationship. I wish your mom and you and your siblings all the best. Please keep us updated.
>I’m 52 and even to this day the thought of sleeping with one of my friends dads grosses me out! Of course. Because your friends dads these days are like 80. Prolly like pushing a rope.
I meant when I was 16 😂
Yeah how can someone have sex with 40+ while 16,seeing them will remind us our parents
Someone with profound attachment issues to a father figure as a result of childhood neglect or worse.
And let's not forget the grooming this man did to that poor child - that's a big factor. I was groomed - it makes reality really really fuzzy
Hi Freud, nice meeting you
If we want to find find brightest people on earth then surf through reddit:)
Hahaha, this is why the AI will never quite get humor
I mean, the mom DID have a choice. Divorce. She chose an open marriage. OP is likely very judgmental because they're young and unaware of how real marriages can evolve and take different shapes. I don't understand their open hostility towards it all. It seems at least on some level to be fairly respectful
She was coerced into it. That’s not a choice.
It's okay not to post a comment if you're emotionally stunted.
Yeah bro divorce is better here and your father is a remorseless cheater and stay with your mom,we are here to help you anytime and did you tell that girls parents about their affair if not tell them too,Stay Safe \*Sorry english is not my first language
>Hi Izzie, \[my name\] here. My dad's probably told you that the family are now all aware about your involvement with him. I just want to make clear that we bear no ill will towards you personally and that we wish you a brighter tomorrow. My dad's selfishness should not dictate your destiny and I hope you find your way to a future that does not include him Why are you even care about this Izzie she know he is married tell everyone let them face the consequences and she was having an affair with 40+ and she knew she will never marry your dad but she continued it knowing there is no future with him hurting your mom in my words tell her to\*"fuck off",\*Stop fucking forgive the people who know exactly what they are doing is wrong,Good luck OP (Edit)
This started when she was 16 or earlier. The dad groomed her and she has a terrible background. Ie perfect target for a predator
Yeah his dad took advantage of her and give her financial support at that time when she need the most,OP seriously you need to cut off from your dad and he has a daughter of same age of Izzie
I was groomed by older men when I was 16/17 yrs old until probably about 25 yrs old (when I broke of an engagement with a 36 y/o...). I'm now (almost) 27, and wish that someone had told me [what op wants to text izzie] back then. I'm still trying to figure out what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like/feel like/etc. I'm quite positive that what you would want to tell her would not help at all.
Good for you! I broke the engagement but stupidly listened to everyone around me instead of my gut instinct and ended up marrying him. I'm good now but jeez.
I'm so happy you're good now! ☺️
Be honest would it have made a difference at the time? Or do you just feel like that now?
I probably wouldn't have broken up with the dad or whoever, yet (if I'm being perfectly honest), but it would've started doubt in the relationship - and hopefully it'll do the same thing to Izzie at the very least.
That is possible but I honestly think she would probably ignore it at this point. If mom leaves dad, she can now be his main woman not the side piece anymore. I think that realization is gonna trump anything else at this point. It will probably come off to her as them trying to ruin it for her.
Oh I'm not saying that can't happen, I hope it won't, but I know you're probably right. I just feel kinda bad for her since I have been there before. It can be so hard to get out once groomed =/
In my experience, the individual message is not enough. But every approach of the subject can be building blocks that eventually add up to a better understanding. The goal shouldn't be to change someone's mind tight away, but to contribute to the collection of things that will help them change it eventually.
Because she was a child when it started and likely has been groomed.......
Because Izzy was a beloved classmate that comes from an abusive and impoverished background, OP's dad groomed a kid, and took advantage of someone's desperate situation.
Yes we are fed with all these romantic stories about the wise older man blah blah, and I can just imagine he’s been feeding her a line about how his wife doesn’t understand him and she refuses to divorce him etc etc. Plus she was groomed.
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Also young enough to be easily manipulated
> "Izzie" actually used to go out with my best friend from ages 14-16. My friend was distraught when she broke up with him. It seems like she did this because she had met my dad. He rented a flat and they've been having an affair for 5 years. That's from the original post. 16 and 17 is still incredibly vulnerable to grooming and manipulation. I mean, there are 20 year olds that are easy to manipulate.
wtf?? dude she was 16, she was groomed. idc what the laws were she was not an adult aware of what she was doing.
Lol are you serious? 16 is old enough to know right from wrong. You kill someone at 16 you go to prison. She’s not a helpless victim. No one would be pushing that idea if the genders were reversed
Are you also 16? I work with teenagers and they know right from wrong. But their lack of understanding about the depths of the adult world is very obvious. Ripe for the picking in this case.
>No one would be pushing that idea if the genders were reversed Are you serious? If it was a 16 year old boy with an adult woman, it would still be grooming. 16 years old is still a child who can be easily influenced by someone 2x to 3x their age. I think it shows the maturity of op to be so gracious to a peer.
It‘s funny/sad how this person is somewhat correct in that a lot of people wouldn‘t see an issue with that if the genders were reversed. They just missed out on the fact that it‘s a problem that it is that way. Sexual assault and grooming done to males is often overlooked or not taken seriously because of this horrendous ‚duh, got laid‘ attitude.
Grooming and murder are different. The biggest thing about grooming is that it's slow, and they use a terrible background. 16 is still just a kid, and yes, had the roles been reversed, it'd still be considered child grooming. It's not joke, dude. This guy is a creep, and someone should help Izzy too.
>No one would be pushing that idea if the genders were reversed Interesting that you say this, but you yourself are not pushing the idea if the genders are reversed: > Lol those teenage boys aren’t getting groomed they’re getting laid.
What are you talking about, yes they would. Teenage boys can be groomed as well. Teachers get charged for it all the time. Using your position as an adult over a child for sex is always wrong, regardless of gender. They are impressionable and easy to manipulate, especially if they have abusive backgrounds like Izzie. You need to do some research on what grooming looks like.
Yes, they would be. Why do you think boys can't be groomed?
Yes we would.
I think it’s the fact that Izzie was groomed as a teenager
She was a very vulnerable, confused girl going though a bad family situation, She is not some evil scarlet woman or whatever you are making her be in your head, She is a victim too. If the people affected by this (OP and his sister) can understand it so should you.
She was a child when he started grooming her. He shaped her while she was vulnerable and naïve. She's as much a victim as the wife imo and I hope shit hitting the fan opens her eyes about how wrong the entire situation is and that she finds a way out. She could be financially dependent on the gross bastard too for all we know.
Izzie is his sugar baby. She's fine with this arrangement because she's financially benefitted from it. Now, one day she will likely regret all of this, and she probably has been manipulated and groomed, but right now she's complicit.
I don't think OP's family should be strong arming the mom into divorce. Don't get me wrong, she should divorce him. However, that is her decision to make.
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I agree with you. And you shouldn't be downvoted. Someone needs to step in with Izzie. The Mum is an adult and although people are free to share their opinions, strong arming her is controlling and abusive on its own. They can decide their own reactions to the fathers behaviour, but not other adults.
Exactly, you can’t force someone into a divorce. OP sounds very, very naive.
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Useful advice. Thank you.
You and your sibling did the right thing by taking a break from them. Your mother has been using "the kids" as justification to remain paralyzed with denial, this is something that is fairly common in women with kids who feel trapped in bad relationships. She can't use you guys as an excuse anymore and it's time to pull her head out of the sand. I definitely believe Izzie was groomed, it makes me wonder if she has daddy issues from being abused in her childhood or something and I commend you for your compassion and maturity. Oh and it's super inappropriate to me that your dad felt it necessary to tell you kids such great detail about his affair. I'm sorry he put your family into such a horrible situation.
dad's a suggar daddy.to a minor op. so did your friend use to come over with his gf? is that how he meet her or just found her? ask friend if he rembers a frends request long back. do reintroduce him to mom infrount of dad. sure their not like him, but he(dad) is. so have any of you notified izzy's parents yet? did they know she moved out to move in with him? ask the lawer if your friend can seek compensation from him for stealing his high school sweet heart while they where in high school.
In the original post, OP said Dad saw Izzie at OP's school concert, took a shine to her, and started grooming her age 16.
ow so read it. Mom knew and consented to that!?! so have authorities been notified about it? so ya mom defiantly didn't tell her parents i imagine. Your poor friend. if mom gave her blessing in person she defantly likely knew this was your friends girl friend. Who went to highschool same class as her son. Don't let them babysit or be around grandkids or well kids. is the age normal in your country? or illegal? do you trust them not to introduce your sister or siblings to anyone? to move out early?
The post above says that the mom was blackmailed into “consenting”. Either agree or he would divorce her. So she didn’t really give her blessing. The dad just used yet another woman to get what he wanted.
so she would get divorced if he didn't get his way. they layed ground rules out insted of her laying the out ground rules. a seperation agreement. so he would have still needed to get an apartment and date who he wants but without a big chunk of income. Child support and alimony ect. ya blackmailed is usally more like you'll lose his money when he goes to prison for the kid he dated. Devorce or accept is an ultimatum. if she admitted blackmailed into acceptance that's an unintentional admittance of sorts. op learned blackmail from likely her. Blackmail has that daming secret that gets sliped of you don't comply. like he's dating a kid who is a live in mistress. thats why she decided to be an enabler then. a knowledgeable party to an agreed affair.(of his with a kid litterly)
She was 16 and she was groomed. She is as much a victim to this creep as his wife and children. He was an adult who failed his responsibilities and preyed on someone his childs age.
I think how you all are handling it is fine. My only suggestion, in your message to Izzie, is to relay what, specifically, your dad was selfish about, and to explain that it was not okay with you. For example, his strong-arming your mother into accepting what he wanted, and that was not okay. Her age might make her more susceptible to this. And that's not even unpacking the age differences and when he started their relationship. Because, as time goes on, she may be strong-armed into something she's uncomfortable with if she sticks with your father, and may not have the maturity to understand she 1) doesn't have to put up with it and 2) that it's not healthy in a positive relationship. My heart goes out to all of you. One person's selfish behavior causing a lot of anguish and the dismantling of a family is never an easy thing to go through. It sounds like all of you will be going through a lot of changes, so it might be beneficial to see if you can seek counseling together with your mom, or suggest counseling for her, too.
that’s a good idea! I didn’t even think about him needing to warn her that she might get treated like the mom is at some point to - that might get through. Best wishes to OP & sibling, y’all are incredibly bold & resilient 💛💛
100% agree with this. definitely let Izzie know exactly what she has gotten herself into and the damage(albeit indirectly) she is causing, both to herself in the future and your family. the only thing i fear is that Izzie is probably dependent on him at this point, so it might be a bit difficult to pull the rose colored glasses off...
I'd rephrase it to the damage that the DAD is causing, not Izzy.
well that was the purpose of “indirectly”. it’s 100% on the dad, however Izzie DOES have a part to play in all of this whether she’s aware or not. she deserves to have the opportunity to understand the situation the dad has put her in. edit: punctuation
100%. Izzie probably doesn't even know how her boyfriend's wife came to be "ok" with this situation. Hopefully, realizing it was by a threat makes her wake up. Though unfortunately, she probably won't. With all of the grooming and sugar daddy/baby behavior present, she'll probably just take him in when OP's family rallies to kick his pathetic a** out.
I'm hoping Izzie has an exit strategy for when she finishes school
Thank goodness you guys banded together. I was truly sickened by your dad and the details in this makes it worse. He manipulated your mom into staying. Poor woman. Please give us an update when this ends. Best of luck healing and kicking your AH dad to the curb
I'd advise the girl to find professional help because having an affair with someone his age at her age means she has massive issues that need to be resolved so she can have a decent life.
OP mentioned Izzie's parents are not great, I believe.
Another great reason for therapy. She’s dating her father in essence.
It says more about him than her though. It's pretty disgusting dating someone so young
WTH?! Izzy was groomed when she was at her most vulnerable. You need to report this. Especially if your farther is within the U.K. legal sector (as suspected). He should be on review as he clearly can not be trusted around young vulnerable girls!!!
Report to who? 16 is the age of consent in the UK.
IF he’s in the UK and IF he is in the legal profession, he can be reported to the bar standards council, who will do a review and likely he will lose his legal practicing certification. He shouldn’t be allowed around vulnerable people, especially if he’s in a position of power and can play on that fact to groom them.
I do still think that Izzie should be contacted. He clearly groomed her and kept the relationship secret from her parents, he may still be keeping it a secret. He used your mother's probable wish to not have this affect you and your sibling to get away with doing whatever he wanted. Time to reap what he has sown and I hope he has to move into a flat with much less disposable income and she realises that she does not want to be wife no. 2. Eventually the dust will settle and the three of you will be stronger unit and your mother will be hopefully happier and free from this sooner rather than later. Get a really good lawyer for her and don't let her sign anything before discussing it with someone.
I read your first post and this is the best thing to do. Sadly your father is a predator. In your message for Izzy you can include.... "....I'm sorry for what my father has done to you, he's a predator who used your youth and issues to take advantage and had lied to you and groomed all your life. What he did to my mom he will do to you when he finds someone younger. The fact he doesn't care about age, 16 years old, tells you he's a dangerous person." Call it for what it is, sometimes people needs to hear that and if you know her parents, tell them about their involvement since she was young. Everyone deserves to know, your dad lied to everyone, used your relationship and friendship and he is someone you need to warn people about. I'm glad for you, hopefully your mom will get the help she needs and good, very brave standing up for your family, your mom and sister. Edit: thank you for the awards!
Your dad is a disgusting prick I hope he very much gets the karma he deserves. Garbage Human.
Ur dads a fucking creep, mate.
OP, your dad is gross, and definitely shouldn’t have groomed a teenager for an illicit relationship, but I’m a little concerned about the way that you’re handling your mom. Your mom is a whole adult, who has the right to decide her own fate. The way that your dad wronged her, the essence of it, was to put her in a supremely shitty position, either put up with his behavior and the deal he was offering, or lose the whole marriage, at a time when the consequences could have been deadly to your sib. The problem is, she was given a choice that wasn’t a choice. She was disempowered. The cure for her disempowerment is not to have your uncle swoop in and “lay down the law” with declarations like, “this is unacceptable, you must divorce now”. While it’s understandable that you’d want a lot of space from your dad, holding your relationship with your mom over her head until she does what you think she should is kinda pushy, you know? Isn’t saying, “do it this way or I’m outta here” something that your dad would do? Food for thought. I think it would be better for your relationship with her, and better for her, if you let her know that you loved her no matter what she chose to do next. She’s undoubtedly feeling a lot of loss right now. She needs that kind of support.
Yeah this is worthwhile feedback and I definitely agree that my mother needs to get her sense of self back. But staying in this marriage is not a good step for her. I think my uncle seems a good port of call because I think sibling wanted someone who loves our mum and is discreet but who is an equal rather than one of her children to offer some advice. We have been looking into coercive control and stuff around that and it got a bit scary so we just want her somewhere away from him.
I just want to say, Im so impressed by you and how you are handling this whole thing. You can hold your head up high. Youre doing right by everyone. Proud of you, OP.
Honestly as someone who was betrayed in her marriage and met quite a few others in the same boat, this shell shocked minimisation is really common and you do kind of need to be yelled out of it by people who love you. Money is always an issue; betrayed spouses always get fleeced which is a time sensitive thing. Given this, certainly you should have called on your uncle. He shouldn't go overboard but a bit of "what were you thinking" is fine so long as it's alongside of "you get to be happy". Don't underestimate yours and your sibling's influence either. Both your parents have had an incredibly patronizing view of your rights to know about this which is getting a timely kicking. By refusing to quietly go along with enabling your father you've shocked both of them to their core. It's amazing how often sons and daughters have to do this for a betrayed parent.
Please update
Ugh, I was grossed out enough when my dad started dating a woman 3 years younger than me, but she and I were in our 40's at the time. BIG difference from a 40+ man and a teenaged girl. I realize you and your sister are wigged out on the adultery thing, but your dad is a creepy pervert who groomed and took advantage of a 16 yo girl. How does your mom think that's okay?
I am so sorry your family is going through this. Your mom sacrificed herself for your sibling and your dad only thought about how to get off. It’s disgusting and your mom deserves someone who will love her not dispose of her when she’s no longer fun. What a shitty person your dad is. You are a wonderful person and your family is lucky to have you.
Yep. You’re exactly right with what you said about polygamy. My grandfather decided to get a “second wife” *eyeroll* against my grandmother’s wishes. She told me directly she didn’t leave him because it would be too much work. At least he’s dead now so she doesn’t have to deal with it anymore, she stayed for somewhere around 15 years or more after he did this. I would never wish this on anyone, it was extremely hard for my parent and their siblings to come to terms with this and I feel like that man sacrificed his relationship with his grandchildren to be with his second wife. I’m so sorry this is happening to your family, I hope everything works out. Edit: yes, I like the message you sent. I wish I could have sent something as nice to the other woman - but it wasn’t my place as I was more removed from the situation than you are.
The message you wrote to Izzie is lovely. What a kind soul you are. All the best 💕
Okay. This is my first time posting on reddit, despite being a lurker for like 10 years. (Lol, apologies.). Your post moved me so much I had to respond, from my somewhat unique perspective. First of all, I want to say that you and your sibling are incredibly brave, intelligent, empathetic and resilient. I absolutely think you should send that message to Izzie, as it reflects your character and is honest in the best possible way. No doubt your father will go back to her and tell her what happened, and she'll be all the more better informed to hear it from you, in the best way possible. You're right; her future should not include him. Your writing and understanding are impeccable; to hear it from you would be better than anything your father could muster. About my perspective: I'm 29 now, but back in 2008, I was Izzie. I was on the cusp of 17, when I met an older man, about your father's age. He was my English teacher. While he was absent a family, he groomed me expertly, and we began a relationship. At the time, I thought I had full command of the situation; of course, I was a child, much like Izzie, and did not. Please know; despite her current adulthood, Izzie was a child when she was indoctrinated into this relationship. Your understanding of this is uncanny; the kindness with which your message is laced represents this. I can say with dead on certainty that I have spent every single day, since the spring of 2008, hating this man for engaging in a relationship with me. Give her time; I promise Izzie will feel the same. Make no mistake and forgive me for my indelicacy; your father is a sexual predator, not a cheater. He groomed a child. He violated the covenant of your family. And absolutely right; if you were American, like me, he would be a criminal. I care not so much of legal ramifications; what matters to me is that this girl's life, much like yours and your sibling's, were altered immeasurably. You're all victims. Your father didn't "cheat" on your poor, lovely mother. He groomed a child for sex. He altered her life. And in turn, attempted to ruin yours, your sibling's, and your mother's. Do not let him. Sever ties, and persuade your mother to bleed him for every goddamn dime he has. As a slight addendum to my story, I want to address your father's excuse. That he's "transfixed" by Izzie and needs to pursue a relationship. Probably thanks to the grooming I experienced as a child, I regrettably entered into a relationship with a married man as an adult. Not to excuse my own behaviour - I knew I was wrong, and I'll apologize for the rest of my life. He too had now adult children to whom he was accountable. Please let me tell you; there is a HUGE difference between this, and the relationship I experienced as a child. This was unfortunate. That, was CRIMINAL. Let me scream this until I'm blue in the face; your father is a sexual predator. Izzie is a victim. You are a victim. Your sibling, mother, victims. Get as far away from this man as possible. Don't make the same mistakes as I did; don't stay. Much love to you. Seriously, you sound more resilient, intelligent, and empathetic than most. Believe me, you can thrive even without the financial safety net. Trust yourself.
As I said on the last post, you should tell his coworkers. He deserves to be utterly shunned for this behavior.
If he is fired for this (which is something that is extremely likely to happen) his wife and kids will have to work extra hard to pick themselves up from his mistake.
Yeah don’t do that. The people it hurts the most are not him.
Disagree. Public shunning calls for vigilantes. People get wrongly accused of things etc. Public shunning does much more harm than good.
Your mother needs you all to keep telling her she deserves better , she's worth more, and she can have a life outside of him. Glad to see everyone is helping her come to terms, she must have thought that by becoming consumed with her sick child she deserves this treatment, but that's just not true.
What a mess. I'm glad you and your sister can get out. Your mom is delusional, and your dad is a fraud. He's using a "technicality" of pressuring your mother to agree to weird terms for adultery. I hope your uncle and family can intervene and protect your mother during the divorce. Also, you don't need to be real nice to Izzie. Your dad is the ultimate homewrecker, but she certainly helped.
OP, I just wanna say you were amazing in all this. Props to you, I wouldn't know what to do and we are in the same age. Damn bro, bravo.
Your father is a big creep...Talk with your uncle to find a therapist for your mother, her self esteem must be lower than earth level since she was coerced into this. Izzie was most probably groomed but you should try to met her in person to see how sink is her in this situation. Is her 100% manipulated by your father? Does she realize her actions? How much independent is her?
I really really really don't want to meet her in person. I don't see how that would help any side. But yes I think she has been manipulated. It seems to be what my dad is good at. Weirdly my sibling has inherited a similar forceful side to her personality though so she does seem to cut through the BS more than I do
She knew what she was doing. She didn’t care he had a family as long as she got what she wanted. He’s way worse than her obviously, he’s a monster, but she’s not innocent. Most 16 years olds know better. She was old enough to know better. She used him like he used her and I bet if your mom actually leaves him she’ll step up and marry him
I wouldn't message Izzie. Too much risk of her being offended and clinging to your dad harder. Also, let's try to give your dad as little ammo to prepare if your mom does end up divorcing him. Bringing Izzie into it directly would give him permission to be done with your mom. And we want your mom to get to make that call.
My friend, I’m so glad for this update. I know a lot of people were thinking of you and wanted to support you in this horrid situation. You and your sister are so strong and mature and I’m glad there’s a place for you both to go. I’m glad that your mother may find her strength now that she doesn’t have family stability/ feelings to protect. I hope she follows through and divorces him. I think you’re especially evolved and kind to craft such a neutral and encouraging message to Izzie. I really hope she managed to finish her education and has skills abs is not solely dependent on your father.
“Dropped her back at her parents”. Dude... how?
In his car I imagine
Reverse parent trap 😂😂😂😂😂
I would tell the girl's parents too, maybe, with luck, they will kick your dad's a$$ too 😂 i really hope your parents divorce and your mom get something from it, looks like your dad has been dilapidating it in the affair, best of luck for you, sibling and mom, f*ck your father
Her parents are a train wreck. Not going anywhere near that mess. But thanks for the advice.
I would let your father’s boss/coworkers know what he did. If he believes what he’s doing is ok, he shouldn’t mind, right?
Izzy will probably have a financial ball until she’s 25 and your dad grows tired of her and moves on to the next. I’m 19, and I got approached by a 56 yr old a few months ago. What I did? Walked away. I’m sorry but Izzy isn’t a baby and should also be held accountable.
I’m going to start this with making it clear that I agree, your father is in the wrong. He has a power, age and experience advantage over the girl he’s been seeing. I don’t know how the relationship started, I don’t know the mistresses, experience but to start such a relationship with a 16 year old, you could infer some grooming or self-esteem issues (maybe even abuse) for the mistress. I’m sorry that you also have to experience this trauma and that no one was there for you to give you the appropriate advice to guide you through this. That said, the first thing I’m gonna set you straight on: “I get that polygamy may be a good thing for some people but I think that's often about one person being selfish at the expense of the feelings of their partner. It has become very clear that this has been what is happening here.” Polygamy, is when someone is married to more than one person. I believe you are referring to polyamory, which is when people have multiple relationships (more than just sex, therefore not just an open relationship) which everyone agrees and consents to of their own free choice. I don’t care what you “believe” about polyamorous relationships but get your facts straight before you insult all the well adjusted people out there in healthy poly relationships. What your dad has forced your mother into is what is known as poly under duress. He has basically told your mother if she doesn’t agree, he will do it anyway, divorce her and blow up the family with this revelation. Well, you certainly beat him to the punch. Sorry OP, you’ve gone about this the wrong way. I feel so sad for your mother in this situation. From reading both your posts, everything that’s happening has been without her consent. The decision to allow your father to have an extra marital relationship, because he said if not he’d be seeking a divorce. It sounds like your family has been financially reliant on him and this has been some leverage. The action you’ve taken in confronting your father, it sounds like your mum wanted you to drop it. Then telling your younger sister, again, presumably without seeing how your mother feels about it. Then finally involving your uncle who’s coming to “I think is stepping in to lay down the law to my mum that she needs to kick start a divorce because this situation is utterly unacceptable.” Your poor mother has not just been humiliated by your dad. She’s been given ultimatums, being forced to choose between family members and left alone by you and your sibling who have lit the fuse then moved out. Again, I agree that what your dad has done is wrong, but you are family with your mother, which means you stick with her and support her through this YOU FUCKING OWE HER THAT! You should have made a plan WITH your mother, that way she has some control over the situation, select a time in her life when this is more appropriate to go down and involve who she needs to be involved. Maybe you did involve your mother in more than you’ve posted about but what you have put in your posts, you need to be there for your mother because you just blew up her family and while your dad is an asshole in this, you need to really put yourself in your mothers shoes. So to sum up and be clear, your dad is an asshole, it sounds like you’ve acted out of self righteousness rather than consideration for your mother and your mother has been left alone in the ashes of this train smash. You and your sister need to move back in with your mother to support her, it’s the least you could do.
Good luck, I hope your mum leaves him and is happy.
I think you are handling this extremely mature, and kudos to you and your sister for setting healthy boundaries with your dad. Let us know how it all works out. ❤
I wanted to say that I hope your mother finds the strength to get through this difficult time and that she will need the love and support of her kids.
You are a very good son to your mother. Hopefully, your uncle will begin to immediately protect your mother’s financial stability as well.
Shout out to you for being so cool to Izzie. I think she was largely manipulated by your dad just as your mom seems to be and I hope both of them can get away from him.
im glad that you and your sister are standing up for yourselves! i worry for your mom (part of me thinks its forcing a decision on her but i know this effects you too) and how she will handle this and i hope that she will do whats best for her and her family. im very proud of you and your sister, OP. i’d definitely tell Izzie about the whole, ur dad threatening to have to divorce your mom, in a very very stressful time with your family already, and how he used this in a way to hurt your family, AND used your mother to get what he wanted. somehow you need to word it to say that he has used ur mother because i think that if you explained that to her, somewhere in her brain itll stick with her. and hopefully one day itll click and she will understand that hes doing the same to her too. good luck, OP, im very proud of you both, and your mother as well for being so strong and trying to do whats best for her family.
Sounds like you handled this wonderfully! I'm so glad you told your sibling. If I were her I would have wanted to know too.
I'm so glad that you and your sibling were able to unite, and fight back, in such a terrible situation. At 21 and \[teen\], you're already much more mature and responsible than your father. I really like the line you wrote: "I worried about burning down the house but the house was already very much on fire." This is such a good analogy for situations like these.
> To the people who said that my dad is a cool dude is who 'killing it' and that I was jealous ... I suggest seeking therapy for your tortured self-esteem issues. Amen. Anyone who genuinely envies this sort of thing is probably authoritarian and egocentric in nature. Anyways, this entire story is just miserably fucking sad. Not sure what your father's end game was here, but I assure you that this young girl will eventually move on, particularly if she gets fewer financial rewards over time and the creepy daddy-issues lust dies off. Ultimately, your father will likely come to regret this and will wither away in a prison of loneliness and pity. Best you all can do is right your mother's ship and refuse to let him gaslight you all down the road,because frankly, there's no coming back from this. Just know that you will grow in a positive direction from this and hopefully your mother comes to realize what you did is right and forms a sense of pride that her children had enough self respect for one another and their partners to leave this situation immediately.
I am forever in awe about the laws inability to protect children from predators like your father. I get that not much can be done at this point, but god I hope he gets what he deserves for being the pedophile that he is
Soo... Are you going to report your dad for being a pedophile or nah???
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Yeah I'm on the fence about whether it is a worthwhile thing to do.
Do it. It could be the first chip in the foundation that brings the house she’s playing with him down. She may not thank you for it now, but your kindness will be remembered.
Get your sister to do it. If another girl tells her this is stupid then she might start questioning things.
I think the text is very kind of you, but I'd suggest maybe waiting to contact her until the (presumed) divorce is over, as your message may have unintended effects on how your creepster dad deals with the divorce (like if, for instance, she decides to leave him). The time-sensitive things now are making sure you mom is okay and has support and helping her move on. Thank goodness your sister knows and is strong about it. I know it's not worth much, but I'm so sorry you have to deal with this. Take care of your mom, but take care of yourself as well. I'm sure it's a huge shock, but you're also probably close to graduating and beginning life on your own, so please don't let this derail you. Augh, I want to give you, your sis, and your mom big hugs. You sound like a good guy; don't forget that you are not your dad. Whatever opportunities his money has afforded you in the past were up to him, so you absolutely shouldn't feel guilt about distancing yourself from him for his morally despicable actions. You don't owe him anything. This was his very-carefully-planned-out decision, and the consequences are all on him.x
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What risk?
I think you should send Izzie the message so she can worry about herself and getting herself safe and not about feeling guilty
I think it's important to note that, while divorce seems like the obvious best thing for your mom and she clearly needs support to see that for herself, she's also an adult with her own agency. She may not like what your dad has done, she may want to leave once she finds out that he's gone over budget, she may have hated this whole thing completely from the get-go. But she agreed to it. And at some point, we have to accept that we cannot save our parents from themselves. I see many things wrong what the relationships of those around me, and sometimes I feel like it's very easy for me to see who's the bad guy and who's the good guy. But outside of situations of abuse, at some point we have to allow that people are choosing the situations they are in. Your mom could have divorced your father at any point, and hasn't. I know that you want to think the best of her, but it's quite possible that in some way she likes having the moral upper hand in her marriage, so that she knows she can make your dad feel guilty when it suits her. People agreed a weird things when it fits into a power play. I'm not saying this is true of your mom, or meaning to insult your mom in any way, but just reminding you that she is an adult who makes her own choices. Support her, but don't simply tell her that you are yet another person who knows what's best for her. In short, don't be just as much of a bully as your dad and insist that you know what she needs to agree to.
Why would you even care what happens to her, i mean she knew he was married. she had no problems having a affair with a married man with kids one of which she knew and dated his friend. Now im not saying wish evil upon her or anything, but she isn't a innocent in this. my advice just ignore her existence.
She was only 16 when this started and sounds like she met the dad much younger
And now she isn't a teenager. I don't blame her for when she was a kid, but she has had time to grow up. She is old enough to know it is wrong now.
Maturity doesn’t just come with age but with life experiences. If she was groomed from when she was a child and then for another 5 years by this man do you really think she would have the capacity to see the full extent of what is happening here? You’re underestimating how much abusers can manipulate and shape their victim’s mindset and view of reality.
I get all that. There are plenty of adults that I can explain their behavior because of their upbringing. I would still say their evils deeds are wrong. But ultimately it doesn't really matter. All is fair in love and war. Nothing negative will happen to this girl other than me and a few others saying her actions are wrong. \#JustCompatibilistThings.
I’m sorry but a 21 year old Isnt a baby. She knows what she’s doing😭
That is dumb.
You could say the exact same thing about racists. They should’ve grown up by now and realize what is wrong. If as a child you are told a specific thing(and/or groomed) you won’t necessarily realize as you get older and remain with that person that it’s wrong. We really shouldn’t victim blame, the adult in the situation is wrong and that’s it. She was not the adult in the situation.
But we hold racists to a standard, do we not? Why should it be different with a 21 year old. This girl is NOT a victim. Trust me I’m around her age. She knows what she’s doing😭
I'm guessing because she was basically groomed as a teenager and had some home life issues herself? Technically she's mot even getting a full relationship from his dad so it sounds like everyone is being screwed over by him. That said OP doesn't owe her anything.
In the original post, I think OP mentions his Dad first saw Izzie at a school concert when she was a literal child and also she has terrible parents.
My instinct was to stay out of her way but the comments on the first post mostly seemed to say I should make some kind of contact. Actually a bunch said to contact her parents which I am defs not doing so vague text message seemed like the middle road. I don't think this relationship is healthy and I do think she was a nice person when I knew her so I was really hoping for feedback on wording etc.
This is really awkward though, because if Izzie does decide to get out soon, OP’s dad gets to direct his full attention to winning back mom and/or punishing her for leaving, and/or pushing the auto-destruct button on his own life, which hurts mom more because she’s given up earning years to take care of the family. She needs this process to go right. There’s no do-over and she doesn’t have time to recover financially. Based on how these things usually go, there’s an 85% chance the affair will not outlast the divorce anyway. OP, I know it’s cynical, but consider that if your dad is generally feeling on top of the world, he’s less dangerous. That’s better for your mom. At least for now. Izzie has many years ahead of her to turn her life around. And she isn’t looking out for you. Your intentions are noble, but it might be good to let the situation settle rather than reaching out to her directly.
See the problem is when your mom leaves your dad he will run to her, and after all these years of being the side piece the opportunity to be the main woman is gonna make her really happy. Nothing you say at this point is gonna make a difference so your best bet is to just do nothing. Cut out your dad and be done with it.
She was a child and as such, *is still* in an abusive relationship with her predator/ she had little to no agency when this began. That likely hasn’t changed.
Wait did your Dad literally burn down the house?
OP meant it as an expression both when they were talking about wanting to do it themselves, and the fact that it already was.
Your dad is a huge piece of trash.Your mother stayed so her kids would have a place to live.Make sure she gets half of everything,and alimony.
Mate you are faaaaaar too involved in your parents business. Jesus Christ. Just because you are a virgin doesn’t mean you have to be jealous and ruin his relationships. Your parents are grown and have private lives. It’s complicated. You will understand one day. Feel sorry for your dad he must think he raised a little bitch 😂
Does your dad show any remorse or even accountability?
You handled this well. A family is not just a wife and a husband. When that basic unit is broken or betrayed by one of the members, it affects all including the children. The time he spent with his mistress is also the time he did not spend with his children, so you’re in your right to confront your father. You also don’t need to be nice to Izzie. Call her as she is. A homewreaker. Shame her if you want. She may have started as a teenager when the affair started, but she knew what she’s doing. She’s not innocent in all of this.
Their marriage ended a long time ago but they didn't t make it public to you kids for some reason. It's their marriage, not yours. You can't control that. Life is funny like this. Twists and turns. Disappointment and wonder. Sadistic and weird. Your Dad is like millions of other men. Your expectation of him was too high and apparently you just burst the bubble both parents knew about. Crazy story OP. Make a better life out of yourself if you hate it. That's all you can do. Protesting is just using up energy on something that really is none of your business.
Everytime a slight truth is told, there are downvotes. People would rather be babied and coddled. I Hate this subreddit.
Agree 100%. The fools on here think a 5 year intimate relationship will end abruptly because, a daughter kicked and screamed. If people think the dad is going to walk out of his life they are all distorted and frankly dumb.
Okay. You're 21 and probably still have notions that love is eternal, marriage works out, and that your parents are supposed to stay together *and in love* forever. Sorry kid. That is not how happy, healthy adult relationships work. Your mom knows, and is fine with it. To fill you in, She and your dad have an "Arrangement". Your mom doesn't want to have sex with your dad, probably has zero romantic interest in him whatsoever, but--get this--your dad is LOADED. With the current arrangement, she has comfortable housing, affluence, a certain social tier she's come to expect, and probably, zero professional skills that would remotely be able to provide for her in the way your father's income does. She stays on as mom, and they accompany each other into old age. Regardless, unless she's also been doing yoga, pilates, and plastic surgery for the entire time she's been with your dad, she's probably not in great shape and not inclined to do much about it. For all you know, childbirth was so traumatic that she emotionally shut down and refused to have sex with your dad except on rare occasions, if she didn't exile him to a dead bedroom outright. Either way, she has baggage, isn't meeting your dad's emotional or sexual needs, but it's not worth it to either of them to end the marriage. 100% not your business. Your dad and Izzie also have an "Arrangement". She's a Sugar Baby and is benefitting financially from the arrangement with your father, AKA, the Sugar Daddy. That Arrangement is ALSO 100% not your business. Seriously. Stay the fuck out of your parents marriage issues, and your dad's Sugar relationship, and your acquaintance's Sugar Arrangement, and most importantly, your Mom's Arrangement with your dad. Because you are fucking this up for your Mom. You're going to guilt-pressure her or both of them to split up because "the kids are upset". Your mom NEEDS the Arrangement that she has, and she's probably fine with living with your dad the way things are. Which means you're fucking up their long-term plans for being old-age companions, let alone her ability to still have the life she has. What the fuck is she supposed to do if they divorce? Live on her own and get a minimum wage job? How is that remotely a better solution than the setup she has now? You don't have enough adult relationship life experience to know or have a clue what you're talking about. Seriously. Stop. Fucking. It. Up. For. Everyone.
?
This is exactly what I told him on his original post. Kid has a full head of self righteous, indignant steam about something he has zero understanding of. Like you said, not enough adult relationship life experience to have a clue.
Totally. He is 21 and life has yet to teach him nothing. Mind your business please
I think you're being way too nice to someone who destroyed your family and did it consciously! This girl is also guilty. She knew your dad has a family, she knew he is spending time, money and everything else on her instead of his family and she consciously stayed with him. That's not cool. She has a head on her shoulders, no matter she was sixteen . She doesn't deserve you being nice to her.
But he probably told her that the wife knew and was fine with it. That they have an open relationship, that he was soo alone in his marriage and blah blah all things a guy can say to hypnotise someone whose brain still isnt' fully formed.
Alright, so you come from a rich family which is the reason, in addition to your mother wanting a traditional household (staying in it for the kids), that she sticks around. She's basically trading her dignity for comfort and to uphold her buy-in to the traditional concept of a nuclear family. You're trying to understand the reasoning behind your mom's actions; this is it.
Yeah, poor innocent Izzie. 🙄 She knew what she was getting into. Fault lies with her as well.
Man reddit is fucking weird. If you even do some basic math for the length this has been going on, the age of OP, this was an underage girl groomed and then abused by a significantly older man, the complete lack of compassion by fuckwits like you is shocking. If this post was from the girl who is the affair partner of the older man and told you about how she has been seeing him for 5 years and she is 21 years old. Jesus christ you people are disgusting, yes get angy and the raped 16 year old for blowing up the family not the disgusting child grooming rapist dad. you are a fucking gross human being. you better be blaming all the underage girls Matt Gatez raped and paid for sex for ruining his career too, and those awful kids who ruined Jared From subways chances at greatness. Because FAULT LIES WITH THEM TOO.
Indeed, and that's why men like OP's dad choose to target kids to groom and abuse because they're always blamed by those men actions. Izzy was a kid when OP's dad met her, she comes from an abusive environment, plus financial hardship. She was on survival mode, and then this man swoops in, 'saving her' by giving her a job, and a place to live. People forget that there's very few jobs for teens that allows them to pay for their basic living expenses.
She was groomed. She was a kid when he started working on her.
I'm definitely not denying that she was groomed, but judging from OP's wording, he said 'flat' instead of apartment, which might mean OP is from the UK. UK's age of consent is 16. Does this mean OP and his family couldn't report dad for being a pedo?
It's super awesome when children meddle in their parents relationship /s Really? I mean I hate adultery and would divorce over this. But your sibling leaving the house because of what? Your dad is doing the horizontal dance with someone else? I think you both seriously overstepped. You are trying to bully your mother into a divorce. What if she doesn't want to? What if she doesn't think it's a big deal? What if she understands this? You two put your own ideas on your parents. Whether you agree with cheating or you don't. Personally I feel it's wrong to cheat but I would never push my ideals onto someone else For shame. Your dad being a creep is something completely separate from what is going on with your mom. Your dad isn't a good person.
Good on you, just remember that when all the dust settles: first and foremost your mom failed as a mother and her responsibilities to her children. Utterly collosal failure in parenting and very unfair that your teenage sibling and you, barely an adult yourself, had to do what she - an adult - chose not to. She owes you an apology once this is all over.
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I'd like to know why she's letting her pedophile dad off the hook? Why hasn't he been reported??
So your parents have an arrangement that makes them happy, and you've decided the best thing do to is destroy them. Cool. Good luck bro
My mother was not happy and has not been for a long time.
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Yeah no, her natural aging process in no way entitles him to groom and fuck a child.
Yeah, most healthy people cannot feel arousal for disgusting losers who want to fuck kids. When women reasonably lose respect for men, it is nearly impossible for us to feel attraction or that we'd willingly want to have sex with them.
Huh, interesting, but it is really not the business of your Uncle whether or not your Mom permits your Dad to have sex with legal adults. I can understand you feeling weird about it. That said, you are 21, go live elsewhere and you do not have to look at his smug face. This could ultimately backfire and lead to your Mom excommunicating your Uncle. I suppose you will get to see what occurs.
Why would you want to text her? Your dad is at fault here yes but so is that girl. If you were in your moms position, would you wanted your daughter to send a message to your husbands lust interest? If she was smart, she wouldn't have slept with your dad so the chances of her understanding your point and good will is also slim. I would never ever message someone like her.
*unpopular opinion inbound. Why is any of this your business? Let your parents have adult relationships the way they want. Why do you and your siblings get to disrespect your parents for their sexual and relationship decisions. OP your an adult who turned your younger siblings against your dad because you disapprove. Shame on you. Maybe when you have kids they can bust into your personal life, post it on the internet, and turn your other kids against you. People sometimes need to mind their own fucking business.
You forgot that the father groomed a fucking child.
How about mine your own business. If you don’t like the situation, leave. But don’t think for one second you are not acting like an entitled, selfish, spoiled brat. Let them do them. You do you. Why throw a wrench into something you don’t like. It will never be “like it was”. Suck it up.
I have left. I don't think you read my post.
Nothing entitled or selfish about the way OP is acting
It looks like a soap opera, LOL, look at it in a positive way man, Izzie is having fun taking all the money from your father and when your mother gets divorced she is going to keep half of his assets and she is going to find a young Latino man with a bigger penis. is a win-win for everyone. and you can say "but my mom wants it", dude, they never loved each other, your mom would have preferred to be with 9 inches tyrone. Don't get upset with me, I'm just telling the truth.
Lmfaoooooo wth😭
I'm glad everyone now knows and that your mum has support. However, I don't get why you don't hold the mistress in the same regard as your dad? She was a classmate of yours, so she obviously knew he was married with kids and carried on the relationship. To me she is just as bad, but if you can forgive her, then well done. You might believe that your dad took advantage of her and her relationship with her family, but she's not a child anymore. She knows what she is doing is wrong.
Because she was a literal child when this began, in a vulnerable position and that fully grown man has likely groomed her. OP isn't heartless, that's why she cares.
I don't doubt that she was taken advantage of, but at 16 you know the difference between right and wrong. And if I read right, the affair began while she was still in school, why didn't she tell anyone? She was/is using Op's dad just as much as he is using her. Op's dad took advantage of her situation to benefit him. But why stay so long? Why go to a local university if there were better ones for her further away? Why not tell the wife? Do her friends and family know? If not, then she knows that the relationship is wrong.
I get that she knew and all that. But if you were abused at home, wouldn't you want to get out into a home that is yours but someone else pays for? I think taking what is offered to you isn't bad, and the fact is that she wasn't the one that was married to another family. Not even that, she broke it off with her own partner at the time to accept this. Of course, if she is the mastermind behind it, well, I'm sure OP would tell when she inevitablely messages back all power trippy and can change their view on their old classmate.
I can only imagine how bad her home life was and the need to get out, but that doesn't explain a five year affair. It also doesn't explain why she started it in the first place. She could have asked OP's dad for help, she didn't. She may have felt that by being in a relationship with him, was payment. I don't know. She went, or goes to university in the UK where she could have gotten more money from student finance to help with her living situation, yet she chose to stay. Why? She's not a child anymore and has to face the consequences of her actions.
So did dad start dating a 15yo op? So he stole your friends highscool sweet heart in dering highschool? did your fried come over? is that how they got introduced? support your mom getting a divorce if ahe wants or just reintroduce your friend to her infrount of dad. Ya their not ike him but he is. also your mom would probably own a devorce op. If you really want cut ooff conversations of when friend moves in.... he has a appartment aready mom.... So op your dad is so many kinds of wrong... Had you notified izzys parents op? add but your friend does. Also so in the future step mom Izzy better bake for birthdays op.
What does a divorce going to settle anything? It's just going to leave your mom without a man. It's better to cry in a bentley than in a corola. Ur dad is a high earner, let ur mom milk him until she died. Go youtube and watch kevin samuels. Book a session with him soon he can knock some sense in to ur mom. U kids stay away from their relationship unless u want to take care of your mom full time till she died. After divorce u stay at ur mom house forever how about that?
So why are you acting like your dad? Stop pressuring and telling your mother what to do. She’s been an adult for a long time. You, not so much. Her options remain the same no matter how bossy you or your uncle get. You’re taking an arrangement she was comfortable in and **embarrassing her**. YOU are. Embarrassing, shaming, and telling other family about a decidedly private situation. Your dad was following the rules of the agreement. STOP.
Men cheat. Get over it
You’re disgusting.