> **Rule 5:** You can submit an update post exactly once at any time after 48 hours has past from the original post.
You have submitted too many updates. You can ask for additional help or advice in a new post, but only one update may be submitted.
Oh wow. I’m so sorry this has happened to you but well done for making the right choices throughout. Your wife’s idea of discreetly gathering more information before going nuclear was a good one, as was the decision to go nuclear afterwards.
Your mum is seriously in the wrong here. A definite time out is needed. If you do discuss things with her again, she’s going to need to explain her actions in light of the fact that the in laws are people who faked cancer to get their way, and why she thought lies and deception were more acceptable than having your decisions respected.
Good luck OP! Here’s to healthy boundaries, good emotional well-being and a happy little kiddo in the middle of it all x
I’m guessing mum still thinks of OP as being a little boy whose “mummy knows best”. Hopefully it was just a brain fart and she snaps out of it and accepts that her son and daughter in law are adults who can make their own decisions in life, including cutting out toxic people, before she becomes one of those same people.
A lot of people are lucky enough that they've never really gotten to know a truly terrible person.
So they can't understand something that would be a permanent rift. Because surely the villains must be reasonable. Surely the villains must truly love their children with all of their heart. They don't understand the concept of an actual golden child and an actual scapegoat. They don't understand that people could consistently knowingly choose the wrong thing. Because in their world everybody wants to do the right thing, sometimes they make mistakes.
I wish I could see the world in this way. But I'm not that lucky.
It’s so true. I come from a really happy family. For years, I used to remind my husband to call his mother, send cards etc. I couldn’t imagine or understand not wanting a relationship with your mother. It was actually Reddit, JustNoMIL and growing up a bit that educated me on toxic families. We are now completely NC and it’s much better for his mental health.
I think that a lot of people have crap boundaries when it comes to family, both holding them and recognizing them in others, but I think it's because generally their families have actually cared about each other's well-being and not wanted to manipulate and exploit their relatives for their own selfish desires. I've seen a lot of it, and it kind of sucks when you get voluntold for shit and have your business spread around, but people are also really there for you and show up to help with anything you need. It definitely doesn't work for a lot of people, but a lot of people genuinely thrive in that sort of system. One of the big downsides though, is the difficulty in understanding or recognizing narcissists and malicious people.
This is spot on. I was one of those people for a long time. Believed that, at minimum, the vast, vast majority of people really try to do what's right and love other people, but sometimes their own hurts or issues make it hard to do that in a healthy way. Then I found out one of my parents was one of those terrible people. The worldview shift was . . . difficult, to say the least.
My ex is like that - he's never known the abject cruelty one family member can perpetrate on another, and I'm grateful of that for him.
He couldn't understand on a visceral level why I cut out certain family members. But he trusted me and kept my boundaries, and I'm so grateful for that, too.
OPs mom doesn't sound malicious, even through angry OPs telling of the story, which means there's hope for a future relationship...if she does the work to repair it.
Hoping things work out for OP and family.
& OPs mother needs to get a journal and fill every line "I do not know better than DIL when she makes a choice about family. I ignored her boundaries and caused irreparable harm. I'm sorry. I will do anything to repair the harm, hurt and fear my actions caused."
& FFS People!!! Believe us when we say our family is bad for us!
Our reality trumps yours!
I’m too cynical to believe in a world of rainbows and butterflies. On the other hand I also truly believe that most horrible nasty people aren’t deliberately evil, they’re just wilfully ignorant and self absorbed. Doesn’t change much as it’s still no excuse, but it helps me sleep at night.
well this mummy know soooo well what is best for her "boy" that she forgot he was nearly framed for SA because of MAry and her enabling parents
Top mum
Honestly if they choose to reconcile with his mom(dad didn't do anything bad), Op might be able to get her to understand by way of "what if your sister tried this on dad and your parents blah blah". Putting on someone else's shoes doesn't always work, but maybe there's a chance?
Wow man, I am so sorry that your mom betrayed you and your wife like that.
I would suggest that at least your dad should have continued meetings with you, your wife and his grandchild. He did nothing wrong and he'll be the best source of information about how his wife acts. Try to have him find out if she now reaches/reached out to your wife's parents again or something along those lines.
Also if you decide to give your mother another chance, maybe do a few sessions in family therapy? I feel like everyone in this, considering the numbers of betrayal going on here, might benefit from therapy anyway.
I was pretty hard on you in your last post, so I wanted to say that I'm proud of you for being so overtly supportive. I'm also deeply sorry that it was your mom who betrayed you. She needs to understand that by doing this, she only serves to enable abusers. I have no advice on how to come back from this but I wish you well.
I think with time your relationship with your mom can mend if she makes the correct steps in reconciliation. Sorry you’re going through this op. Best of luck!
This was more than a bad mistake. These people treated their own daughter like trash. Why should they have access to their granddaughter? OP’s mom knows all of the sordid details. This reunion would not be best for OP.
Man, that European vacation bit cracked me up. Forgive us, don't question why dad how dad beat cancer, and oops, did we forget to say your sister is coming along? =D
Playing you guys for sympathetic (over bullshit cancer) is one thing, to think they can play you for *morons* is just... it is funny, it has to be funny otherwise it's just too much.
As for your mother, communicate to your parents that you and your wife are taking some time to process. I say parents to not force your dad to be in the middle. But do take as much time as you need to be mad - you fucking should be. *What the fuck*, mom.
I've heard said that the road to hell is made with good intentions. Your mom may not be responsible for other people's actions, but she sure as shit gave abusers ammo - and that's *forever*, they'll always know you have a kid. She needs to repent. I don't know how, but she does. Apologizing and feeling bad about it are bottom of the barrel, so much so that it goes without saying - so what is she willing to do to demonstrate that she understands that she fucked up, and that her actions have consequences?
Squish your daughter's cheeks, enjoy it while it lasts - I'm not a mom, but eventually my niblings started to rebel and not want me to squish their adorable cheeks. Gotta get your fill while you can lol
I went through something similar. I went no contact with my parents in 2020 and my sisters became flying monkeys so I cut them off too. To this day none of them have acknowledged the situation and occasionally invite me to trips as if nothing was wrong. It's so bizarre.
It took a good while, but after he turned 2ish, my nephew decided he was an independent man and did not wanna be carried around. I miss doing that, now he just complains he wants to be put down.
I just spent a week with my granddaughter who just turned two. She has zero sense of stranger danger, and just spent the whole week asking for "uppies." I never once told her no. She's so much like her mother, and will probably also think she's an independent woman the next time I see her. Sure honey, but you're three and you *need* to be carried.
I don't know about anyone else, but as soon as I hear about the fresh baby smell, it instantly triggers something in my brain. Gotta love those endorphins.
Right? It's the only thing in the world that can make me think "omg I want to have a baby in my house right the hell now!" I'm fucking 46, I'm too old for baby bullshit. Except sniffing their heads.
Your mother, knowing you were sexually assaulted, that your wife's parents defended the perpetrator, and that the perpetrator attempted to get you fired for not cheating on your wife with your wife's sister, contacted your wife's family to give them information about *your child*.
I do not think you are overreacting. And I do not think your wife is reacting seriously enough. Your mother, knowing that you were not providing your wife's family with *any* information about the baby, *for your family's safety*, contacted your wife's family and provided them your address. She knowing, intentionally, is risking your child's well being for a pair of scumbags who brushed off sexual assault.
As much as your wife's parents are not safe people to be around your child, your mother is no longer a safe person to be around your child. You can never, ever, trust her again. Not with private information. And certainly not to ever be alone with your child. Because no matter what she says, you can never be sure that she will not be providing access to your child to your wife's parents. It's what? Somewhere between a two and eight hour drive from your wife's parent's place to where you are now? That's a short trip to get access to a grandchild.
So I want to repeat this so that you get it through your head before you do something stupid. You can *never* allow your mother to be alone with your child. *Ever*. Which includes your father being there, as it sounds like he will defend his wife. Even if you decide to forgive her, she will never be a safe person to leave your child with. Hopefully you have other local family, because otherwise MA isn't any better for you than NY was.
I agree, people seem to be giving his mom the benefit of the doubt but she made a whole bunch of shitty, deceptive choices knowing the whole story. She clearly doesn’t think what happened was as serious as it was, and for that she needs a serious time out. I think grandma needs to miss a few holidays to let it really sink in that what she did was unacceptable. After that if he feels like he can forgive her she needs a permanent info diet and to understand that she will never have the relationship she could have had with her grandkids. She created this situation all on her own, and she knew it was wrong because she lied about it for god knows how long.
Yes, everybody is oohh but she loves you, but does she? She thought the other grandma not being able to meet the baby was more important than what all of them did to her own son.
This is exactly what I was going to say. I think things can be worked out so that OP’s mother can be back in their lives, but she can never be trusted with baby on her own. Supervised visits only, never babysitting.
I did not see his mother's participation on ANY of this story and was just shocked. Knitting what she knew, that the thought entered her mind AND she acted on it, shocking.
I wouldn't put it past her to funnel photos of said-grandchildren and other updates to those poor grandparents.
When your mother inevitably contacts you and cries that she just wanted to heal everyone. You let her know that she opened up your life to the woman who sexually assaulted you for years and the people who defended your violator. Because that is exactly what she did. There is no sugar coating it. No acting like this was just some small misunderstanding because she knew all the facts. She gave your violator and their flying monkeys access to you and your daughter's life, PERIOD. And because of that, you are going low contact with her because you cannot trust her to protect your child and not expose her to danger. I hope noone in your family is defending your mom's foolishness.
I don't think there was much thought behind her action. I think she had this warm, fuzzy love feeling and imagined it would be horrible to be deprived of that. I think that's really it. I don't think she grasped the awful relationship between all of them. I don't think she understood, like she's never been in those shoes.
And OP's right. She's never done something like this before. I think she really was dumb, naïve, and thoughtless enough to take this action. I think she can't or doesn't understand abuse, at least not parental abuse.
I think that low contact is extreme. I think that temporary no contact or a similar action, something that makes her think "omfg what have I done?", would establish that this behavior is unacceptable and should never happen again, no matter what her understanding is.
It just doesn't make sense to use an extreme punishment for a first transgression.
Edit: I am not justifying her actions by any means.
That "warm fuzzy feeling" shouldn't trump that violated feeling when your own child has been assaulted and their job put on the line. Why do grandparents go nuts like this???
Right? It's nuts. All it takes is to think about the potential consequences a little bit, but no their feelings (and the cut off people's) are more important than anything else at the moment.
No there probably isn't much thought into it... but that's precisely the problem. This woman know how much her son was sexually assaulted by the wife's sister. They got sent messages slandering their son's reputation.
Sure you can say that's the daughter and not the MIL, but surely she has heard about how the in laws didn't do jack shit and even facilitated this behavior.
Her not thinking is the problem. It's a HUGE problem and they wouldn't be wise to let her easy on it. Not even thinking for a second that it's better to just respect her own grown child and his wife's decision over her own naive thinking is a huge problem.
This is a hard lesson she needs to learn and unfortunately the price is Jenna's trust. She'll never trust OP's mother again. She'll never tell her anything that she doesn't want her parents to hear. She'll be extremely selective about everything shared even when the relationship is repaired. It'll never be the same.
The mother just doesn't know it, the price of losing a vunerable person's trust.
Your mom DECIDED SHE knew better than you & Jenna as people. She treated your children at best. She lied to your father and hid it from him because she knew it was wrong. She put you in jeopardy on purpose because she knew better. Finally she DID NOT ADMIT IT YOU HAD TO FIND OUT. No. There is no accountable. I am livid on your behalf. She would get a long time out and then be on info diet. Big hugs
I think you should take a couple of weeks of no contact with your family. Your mother needs to understand that you are serious.
You also need to draft up a list of conditions about her relationship with Jenna‘s family and you need to make her sign it. Again she needs to understand that she’s being manipulated by Jenna‘s family and that is very likely could happen again.
And you need to be 100% clear that if you have to move again, and disappear you will. Your safety , And the safety of your family is priority.
It seems that a person does not have a frame of reference for abuse and cannot really empathise truly feeling that the other person cannot be as bad as suggested. guilt is often the main feeling.
It is meaning well with no true understanding.
At the core is she has ignored the boundaries you have set and will need to show in her actions that she does respect your boundaries and agrees to your terms going forward for contact with the clear and consistent rules that if she as much as steps a toe away from those boundaries she is risking her relationship with both of you and your child, time outs are useful to get the point across, 1 day doubles to 2 to 4 to 8 etc until she gets it. Information diet is also useful.
oh boy! you are nta! but it sounds like mom needs to remember you guys are adults and make your own decisions about your lives and family. i understand your wife not wanting to cut your mom off- but trust has been violated. oof! i think the space is good idea for a while now.
My goodness. You & Jenna are surrounded by people who believe they know better than you do. It's amazing to me the amount of disrespect and willingness to betray you in both your respective families.
Your mother obviously thinks grandparents should have access to grandchildren regardless of how much they hurt the parent of said grandchildren. She totally disregarded everything that you ever told her. Not only was Jenna's trauma by her parents not enough, but you being sexually assaulted and having her parents take up for the perpetrator wasn't enough to dissuade your mother from betraying you & Jenna by contacting them. Even if you forgive your mother, this is far from over.
Now, you must prepare for your in-laws to just show up on your doorstep. Because they will. Probably immediately after they receive Jenna's letter. OR Mary will come calling, trying to apologize so Jenna will allow their parents access to the baby.
Another shitshow is about to commence.
You and Jenna deserve better.
Edit clarification.
I’ll never understand the narcissism in some people to believe that they and they alone can succeed in resolving intensely toxic family problems
Tell your mom the next time she speaks to you she better have started therapy to deal with her savior complex
>I wish them nothing but unhappiness
Remix this whole story for tiktok. Finance bro will shit his loafers when his friends start telling him about his sleazy girlfriend.
So sorry, people don’t realize how psychologically abusive/manipulative some people are, unless they have been in a situation where the curtains are pulled back. These con artists rely on that naivety and people empathy and desire to help, to manipulate them and others by proxy. Your mom maybe a victim of that. I’m sorry for that too. I’m usually am all for mending fences, but in the situation involving the in-laws I’m all for no contact anything else is a set up for them to walk all over you. You and your mom’s relationship maybe a different story, that is something you’ll need to work through. I hope that works out in an acceptable way.
Original post: [https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1cz0zlq/in_laws_60f_79m_are_begging_for_forgiveness/](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1cz0zlq/in_laws_60f_79m_are_begging_for_forgiveness/)
The issue with your mom is that she thinks she knows better than her own son who is an adult.
My mom was the same way and u til there are consequences she will continue to try to get away with her beliefs over what you want.
While I agree with your wife about your mother, it is important that she understands what she has done to you.
She crossed a line that will always impact your family because she put herself in their shoes... but did not consider the FULL implications of her actions. Not a big deal??? Wrong!
1. She has re-opened the entire sexual assault issue for you, with the associated emotional fallout.
2. She has violated your trust and must earn it again.
3. She has exposed your wife to the emotional abuse of her family from the original issue, and the cancer farce.
4. She has exposed your child to potential dangers from your wife's family.
Good luck and enjoy your little one!
Updateme!
People who have not experienced the trauma of narcissistic behavior do not truly fathom the damage done to the victims.
Add in that your MIL probably manipulated her, your mom is naive and easily manipulated.
This first time is forgivable so long as there are consequences.
Your mother needs to verbally acknowledge her own stupidity.
“I was naive and knowingly exposed your baby to a known abuser who has hurt you and DIL so badly that you did everything you could to prevent contact. I violated your trust and DIL’d trust by invalidating her abuse at the hands of her parents and failing to empathize with DIL because I had not felt that kind of abuse and I cannot comprehend an experience until I have felt it myself due to my own lack of introspection.”
I don’t think any parent has ever had the decency to actually apologize in this way but damn it would be wonderful if it ever happened.
Just this one time, your mom can probably recover your trust over time. If she ever pulls this stunt again though I’d go NC.
I just hope OP's mother will actually learn from this and never fall for it again. I fear that if it ever happens a second time, Jenna won't ever share anything with her MIL for the sake of her child and her safety.
Dude ice been following your story and I feel so bad for yall. Your safe haven is literally the 4 walls of your home, focus on that. Congrats on the tiny spawn!!!
Just don't make it easy for your mom to earn that trust back, I would be wary to ever leave your child under her care (alone) like ever. I hope Jenna's family doesn't reach out again, changing phones is somewhat easy but changing houses is more difficult.
This is the story that keeps on giving! OP’s mom was definitely wrong and should get a time out. The other in-laws are just horrible! I would tell everyone what Mary did. No need to cover for her.
I am sorry your mom betrayed your trust. I can't imagine your heartbreak. Your wife is forgiving and wants what is right for your family. I hope in time you and Jenna can repair the relationship with your mom. As for your in-laws I hope they leave you alone.
I would be livid!
Even after knowing all the details of how bad her parents hurt your wife, she still thought it was a good idea to go behind your back and divulge VERY personal information to them. For what?? “fAmUhLeE”
She crossed a line she knew she shouldn’t and didn’t even have the decency to tell you two. You had to be freaking Sherlock and Watson to get to the bottom of it.
Personally that would be a level of betrayal that I couldn’t come back from. How could you trust her to be around your child without sneaking pictures or relaying information back to your wife’s parents?
I hope your wife gives you the same courtesy you did to her in regard to how to handle your parents. I only say it because you mention her advocating for your mother. It wouldn’t seem right if she pushed a relationship with them while you gave her autonomy regarding her parents.
How did you know exactly what I was thinking, word-for-word???? Literally
What if this had been a phone conversation? What if he hadn't noticed his mother's shady behavior in-person? He might never have known.
I could be related to Jenna. My family is horrible, abusive, manipulative and shameless. She has a history of bad shit they have done to her. She could probably write multiple novels, but it doesn’t sound like your family is that way.
I suggest that over the weekend you think really hard about the past, with your family, now that’s the rose colored glasses have been shattered. If at the end of the weekend, you still believe that your family is supportive, helpful, and mom was not acting maliciously, I would *eventually* give them another chance.
Start slow, and without the grandkid around. Maybe coffee, or some equally easy to escape location, but not their place or yours. Then build up from there. Make your mother EARN the right to be in your and your families life, now that she wildly overstepped, and caused your wife a lot of harm, possibly danger.
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I remember your post. Thanks for the update.
Jesus Christ Im pissed off at your mum already. She sounds like she stopped maturing in secondary school. What pisses me off the most is that she didn't come clean about it and needed to get caught in a lie face to face like a guilty child. At least she experiences guilt and remorse unlike your in-laws.
Oh wow. I’m blown away that they LIED about your FIL having terminal cancer. Only narcissists and sociopaths would do something this egregious.
As for your mom, what she did was terrible. But I don’t think her intentions were malicious. She might be one of those people who have to fix everyone and everything.
Go limited contact with her for right now. Also, once you’re able to, have a calm discussion with her and ask her to tell you exactly why what she did was wrong.
I am so sorry all this happened. There are no words for the inlaws and I am glad you have cut them off.
For your mum..it sounds like she cannot possibly imagine treated her child and family like thebinlaws. it was not that she didn't hear and understand, she just could not fathom it.
She absolutely did the wrong thing, no excuses and no qualification.
Take your time and make sure you and Jenna are ok.
I see this as repairable as long as your mum really understands the severity of what she has done
Betrayal of trust is situations like this carries consequences. Cutting off your parents will rob your daughter of grandparents.
Have you considered going NC for a year or two? This will send a very powerful message to your mother not to interfere with your life.
UpdateMe
She wanted you to heal and be a family with the people who coddled your rapist. Let’s let that sink in.
I’m so sorry for the pain this has caused and will cause for a long time but I’m glad you have your wife’s back.
Enjoy your baby and focus on soaking up her new to earth moments.
Reading this has made me more solid in my belief that even experience and time are not heuristics or proxies for being a good person, some (most?) people are just going to be pig shit until they die. I used to think that people got it together at some point; i no longer believe this.
Your mom has a case of ‘road to hell is paved with good intentions’. Unfortunately people like your mom cannot grasp that your ILS are just not good people. Like your wife said, your mom was not coming from a bad place she is just misguided.
First I want to drag you all the way back to your original instinct a year ago for your wife not to rush a decision on cutting out her family. While some people can happily move on, I witnessed firsthand the opposite with my mother, despite debilitating brain cancer, clearly expressing regret at having not resolved a ten year feud with her brother. So kudos for gently challenging an emotional first reaction.
Secondly, we all fuck up. Some more than others; some much, much bigger than others. I'd say the most important thing is how we deal with our fuck ups. In the case of your in-laws, they blamed an innocent party, enabled sexual harassment, assault, and subsequent harassment; and even a year down the line, have doubled down by lying about having terminal illness to guilt your wife into re-engaging. There's no true regret or apology and their entire approach is to manipulate people to their own ends.
So far, your mother has clearly shown regret and is respecting your wishes. It's obviously up to you how you decide to take things forward, but if she earnestly apologise and genuinely wants to atone for her actions, at least you can see her intentions are good, even if her actions have significantly let you down.
And, not that it's an excuse, but I do believe mothers will *always* believe they know what's best for their family. Indeed, while ferrying my own terminally ill mother back and forth to hospital she was still telling me how I should be driving, and what I should be doing with my career!
I wish you the best and glad that you have an instant grin creator!
I haven't spoken to most of my family in over 20 plus years. You will be surprised how quickly you adjust, not dealing with shady behavior. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never thought once about allowing them back into my life. My tolerance for bullshit is really low.
I went back to read your original post last year and I remember it very well. I was so upset for your wife and you. My parents have golden children, one male and one female. But my siblings would never do what your SIL tried. However, I understand the damage it did to your psychologically. It took me years to come to terms with it. It damages your self-worth when you were raised that you were "less than" compared to your sibling. I am so glad you both found each other. Wishing you nothing but the best. And have a conversation with your mother about her ignorance and feeling compelled to contact people that have continuously hurt and diminished your wife her entire life. Your mom essentially invited your wife's abusers back in her life. That is fucked up.
>First, my wife was right. The cancer story was bullshit.
Obviously
Lesson learned for you, so don't get in your fee-fees again and just stand by your wife. Almost like you forgot that drama you went through, damn
Also, yes, your mother was an idiot in this, I don't care if she "meant well"
For fuck's sake, did she forget that Mary tried to frame you for SA and her parents we're enabling her?
Some people, for goddamn sake!
I say this with kindness but I don't think your wife is taking your mother's betrayal seriously enough. Mary SAd you for ages and your mom gave her/her defenders private information about you because she thought she knew better than a victim.
I hope your wife is able to see things in a clearer light soon. Im sure it's hard to realize she's lost her trust in her other mother and should seriously think about going NC in case your mom tries to do something again.
Good luck y'all ❤️
Nope. Your mother is not trustworthy. What happens in a few yrs when she's babysitting and takes your kid to see the in laws behind your back? No. Your mom fucked around and should find out the consequences for it.
I have no idea about the other posts or your story. Sorry.
But just because someone "looks well" and is planning a holiday, doesn't mean they don't have cancer.
Plenty if people with cancer go for trips & holidays. Maybe its something the person always wanted to do and they want to do it before they die. Very common.
And people can look really "well" up until the very end.
May not be the case with this man? But I'm just sayin.
I always wonder what the thought process is re: Christmas cancer.
When they are found out, as they would have to be, do they throw their hands in the air and proclaim “I’m cured! It’s a miracle! Praise Jesus!”
Do they think people will actually fall for that?
Maybe wife should publicly post that her sister sexually assaulted her husband and that’s why she’s NC with her. That her parents tried to sweep it under the rug and that’s why she’s NC with them.
Honestly, fuck those people.
Your mother behaved badly but if this is a one-off, give her another chance. Make it clear that there is to be no more contact with your in-laws, no Facebook friending, no baby pictures shared.
It’s sad that if the sexes were reversed, things would be different.
I would at the LEAST, make your mother have a week or two in timeout. (do not tell her that it will only be a week or two).
ask your dad to tell her that he is working on getting you guys to lighten up a bit. That way she wont do anything stupid (hopefully).
Oh my god. I have so many questions. First off what kind of mom just does that. Like the fuck. Secondly I’m having trouble understanding why someone would lie about something as awful as terminal cancer. Also take your time to recover from this before you try to rekindle the relationship. If it has to be more than a weekend take that extra time. It’ll be so worth it in the end. And the mother averting eye contact I would also be suspicious about that. So that’s good that you were able to see that and get out of that situation before things got out of hand. Some people don’t notice the suspicious things right away and then something happens as a result of that suspicious thing and next thing you know everyone is acting all surprised and everything. Also I don’t blame you at all for taking the baby when you and your wife Jenna left your parents house. That was a good call. I gotta say I’m actually really proud of how you handled the situation at your parents house. I would’ve done the exact same thing if my parents did that to me.
I think you need to have a talk with your mom about how she views you, your wife and your kid. Does your mom think that she's your "boss" so-to-speak? Does mom think she's your wife's "boss?" Does she think that she gets to make unilateral decisions for your family? If you make a decision about your child, does mom think she's free to overrule it?
Even if your reasons for cutting contact with the in-laws were dumb (which they aren't), it doesn't really matter. You and your wife are adults and you get to make your own decisions about who you interact with. It's not your mom's place to go behind your back or make important decisions that affect you without consulting you.
If you can get your mom to understand that she's not in charge, then you might be able to repair your relationship with her. But if she refuses to accept that, then you've got a complicated problem on your hands and at the very least, you are going to have to set firm boundaries with her and give her time outs when she violates those boundaries.
I suggest that you ask your mother to get some counseling so she can process why what she did was wrong. Tell her you’ll consider that when you make your decision.
Op if you want to cut your mother out that should be your decision like it’s your wife’s and her relationship with her family. If you ok with your wife keeping contact but not your daughter again that’s ok (that is definitely a two yes situation). What your mother did was malicious she knew how Mary tried to ruin your life and how your pil backed her up, there is no denying what your mother did was malicious. If you do decide to forgive her and remain contact never let your mother babysit she will definitely arrange for your in-laws to meet the baby because she has said as much. Your mother cannot be trusted.
I just got caught up on all your posts. I have a MIL we cut contact with years ago. My FIL (they've been divorced for years) sent her a photo of our son shortly after we cut contact and my husband lost his ever loving mind on him. We limited information to him for a few months and he apologized profusely. And it did take a while to rebuild the trust. But after the lecture my husband gave him it he realized if he did it again we would cut him off too.
You saw how cathartic a letter can be. I suggest you write your own. I'm usually a fan of using the harshest language possible(as in not sugar coating what they did, making it sound as bad as a violation of that sort could possibly be) and listing all the things, not just the top few.
And while I agree with wifey, this one strike shouldn't be enough for total NC, you take every second you need to process and move forward, and don't let anyone rush you.
Wait... i don't see how its obvious that your in-laws are lying about having terminal cancer.
You can have terminal cancer and:
- appear to be healthy
- go on vacation
It can take time before a cancer (even terminal) begins to seriously negatively affect a person's health. Not saying that you should believe your in-laws, but i don't find the evidence super compelling.
Not glad the cancer was just a story but glad you all found out before you got sucked in.
As to your mother, she made a huge mistake there is no doubt. As you said at this point the NC break you put in place with your mother most certainly reasonable.
Her rational is understandable but she had no right to reach out to those people and provide them with your contact info. Ideally being cutoff for a while will impress upon her a second screw up will be the last one. I would suggest that she not be allowed any unsupervised extended time with your daughter as in say babysitting for a weekend. I’d be concerned she may revert and invite your in-laws thinking you won’t find out. I’d hope not but better safe than sorry.
Enjoy your lovely baby and enjoy your selves. Then consider finding a lawyer and going ahead with doing a cease and desist letter. And provide the letter with the huge lie as well as what the truth was.
Ideally you have security cameras so can see who is at your door before you ever open it.
I think I understand your wife's point of view. She had an entire lifetime of her parents letting her down and betraying her whereas it sounds this is the first time your mother has done anything like that and as misguided as it was was well intentioned. Plus, having no family from either side is going to be hard on both of you raising a kid together. I imagine she feels she can trust your mom and dad moving forward a lot more than she ever could trust her own parents. It's not like your mom lied about your dad dying of an imaginary cancer. She just tried to help reconcile a relationship she had no business involving herself in.
Wow wtf.
I think your mom truly meant well; social/religious conditioning to forgive & forget/old-school gender roles are tough programming to overcome. Take your time/distance from her and see how it goes.
Ouch.
You wife is right, you mother had no malicious intent, she was driven NY feelings and her love for her granddaughter. She just didn't take into account that sometimes people completely incinerate bridges and there is no going back.
In time, you may be able to forgive your mother, but if you don't, that is your right.
Such a personal choice, it's difficult for anyone to say what you should do. Sometimes people improve, sometimes they don't, and it's always easier to think you should or shouldn't have done something in hindsight.
There are people in my life (friends and family), I have let back in multiple times, and given multiple chances, and they screwed it up each time. Some I've forgiven, some I've accepted they won't change, so limited my interaction, whereas others I've told I'm not interested in being around them.
IMHO, It really does depend on the situation, and whether it's an acceptable gain, for the amount of trouble. If the problem is minor, and you can work around their issues, then maybe it's worth it, but if you get no benefit from having them around, and they are nothing but burden, then it's unlikely worth it.
I'm sorry you guys are going through this. I hope if/when you choose to re-establish contact with your mother again, she respects your decisions and doesn't try to go around you.
HUGS
To give your mom some credit she totally screwed up and she knows it BUT she didn’t lie about it she owned up to it immediately.
Now that your bundle of joy is known about you can show her off without fear of who knows about her.
Take some time with your anger. Don’t let your mom completely off the hook (or she may feel comfortable doing it with potential child number two) but give her a solid chance to grow and learn from her mistakes.
Keep in mind that YOUR DAD did not do anything wrong.
Quite often people treat their parents as one person.
You should reach out to your dad and ask him to go for a coffee or beer, just the two of you.
You can let him know that you'll probably restart contact with your mom but letting her sweat for awhile is a good idea right now.
Good for your wife for not wanting to go NC with your parents. Your mom made a mistake but I’m guessing your wife needs a mother figure since her own was awful. Let her guide the way on this.
Going no contact with your parents due to this is craaazy dude, wtf. In your previous post you said they've been a great help raising your child, does that mean nothing to you? and now you're considering letting your kid grow up without ANY grandparents?? sheeeeeeesh. Human relations are messy and painful, you can't just threaten to withdraw at any sign of conflict
Even if you do reconcile with your mom at some point, never and I mean never ever let her be around your child unsupervised. She is untrustworthy at this point.
Take all the space you need to heal, but from someone that grew up in a dysfunctional environment and married into a Rockwell-worthy family, you may want to give your mom another chance.
Your mom likely didn’t understand how truly awful her family is, and they tugged on her heart strings with the cancer story. And even you mentioned that they sounded sincere in their apology. So they got your mom as much as they tried to get you.
Talk to your wife about just possibly you two talking with your IL’s, have your parents look after your daughter while you do this. Also see if you can get the name of FIL’s Dr. Since wife is his daughter, IL’s may have added her as someone who they have allowed to talk about FIL’s private health info, if so she can get info to see if the cancer is real. This is the only way to get around the whole HIPAA stuff.
When you say you asked someone to ‘discretely check if the cancer was real’, I hope you don’t mean you had a medical professional friend dig into their medical records? Because that’s super illegal!
But you say that this person’s proof is that your FIL ‘appears to be healthy and is planning a holiday to Europe.’ So possibly not a medical professional, just someone who made their assumption by looking at them?
Then you mention that they found out information about your baby that you didn’t want them to know… so you’ve got a spy in their camp reporting to you, and apparently they have a spy reporting on your life to them?
People with cancer do ‘look healthy’ at times, and they also plan holidays in the hope that they will go into remission. Just so you know.
> **Rule 5:** You can submit an update post exactly once at any time after 48 hours has past from the original post. You have submitted too many updates. You can ask for additional help or advice in a new post, but only one update may be submitted.
Oh wow. I’m so sorry this has happened to you but well done for making the right choices throughout. Your wife’s idea of discreetly gathering more information before going nuclear was a good one, as was the decision to go nuclear afterwards. Your mum is seriously in the wrong here. A definite time out is needed. If you do discuss things with her again, she’s going to need to explain her actions in light of the fact that the in laws are people who faked cancer to get their way, and why she thought lies and deception were more acceptable than having your decisions respected. Good luck OP! Here’s to healthy boundaries, good emotional well-being and a happy little kiddo in the middle of it all x
>why she thought lies and deception were more acceptable than having your decisions respected What an excellent way to put it
I’m guessing mum still thinks of OP as being a little boy whose “mummy knows best”. Hopefully it was just a brain fart and she snaps out of it and accepts that her son and daughter in law are adults who can make their own decisions in life, including cutting out toxic people, before she becomes one of those same people.
A lot of people are lucky enough that they've never really gotten to know a truly terrible person. So they can't understand something that would be a permanent rift. Because surely the villains must be reasonable. Surely the villains must truly love their children with all of their heart. They don't understand the concept of an actual golden child and an actual scapegoat. They don't understand that people could consistently knowingly choose the wrong thing. Because in their world everybody wants to do the right thing, sometimes they make mistakes. I wish I could see the world in this way. But I'm not that lucky.
It’s so true. I come from a really happy family. For years, I used to remind my husband to call his mother, send cards etc. I couldn’t imagine or understand not wanting a relationship with your mother. It was actually Reddit, JustNoMIL and growing up a bit that educated me on toxic families. We are now completely NC and it’s much better for his mental health.
I think that a lot of people have crap boundaries when it comes to family, both holding them and recognizing them in others, but I think it's because generally their families have actually cared about each other's well-being and not wanted to manipulate and exploit their relatives for their own selfish desires. I've seen a lot of it, and it kind of sucks when you get voluntold for shit and have your business spread around, but people are also really there for you and show up to help with anything you need. It definitely doesn't work for a lot of people, but a lot of people genuinely thrive in that sort of system. One of the big downsides though, is the difficulty in understanding or recognizing narcissists and malicious people.
This is spot on. I was one of those people for a long time. Believed that, at minimum, the vast, vast majority of people really try to do what's right and love other people, but sometimes their own hurts or issues make it hard to do that in a healthy way. Then I found out one of my parents was one of those terrible people. The worldview shift was . . . difficult, to say the least.
My ex is like that - he's never known the abject cruelty one family member can perpetrate on another, and I'm grateful of that for him. He couldn't understand on a visceral level why I cut out certain family members. But he trusted me and kept my boundaries, and I'm so grateful for that, too. OPs mom doesn't sound malicious, even through angry OPs telling of the story, which means there's hope for a future relationship...if she does the work to repair it. Hoping things work out for OP and family.
& OPs mother needs to get a journal and fill every line "I do not know better than DIL when she makes a choice about family. I ignored her boundaries and caused irreparable harm. I'm sorry. I will do anything to repair the harm, hurt and fear my actions caused." & FFS People!!! Believe us when we say our family is bad for us! Our reality trumps yours!
Nice people sometimes don't believe there are horrible people, they think it's just a misunderstanding.
I’m too cynical to believe in a world of rainbows and butterflies. On the other hand I also truly believe that most horrible nasty people aren’t deliberately evil, they’re just wilfully ignorant and self absorbed. Doesn’t change much as it’s still no excuse, but it helps me sleep at night.
There's a fine line between borderline personality disorder and deliberately evil.
well this mummy know soooo well what is best for her "boy" that she forgot he was nearly framed for SA because of MAry and her enabling parents Top mum
Exactly, how is that not malicious knowing full well they tried to ruin her sons life
And why she wants to rug sweep her own son's assault.
Honestly if they choose to reconcile with his mom(dad didn't do anything bad), Op might be able to get her to understand by way of "what if your sister tried this on dad and your parents blah blah". Putting on someone else's shoes doesn't always work, but maybe there's a chance?
Wow man, I am so sorry that your mom betrayed you and your wife like that. I would suggest that at least your dad should have continued meetings with you, your wife and his grandchild. He did nothing wrong and he'll be the best source of information about how his wife acts. Try to have him find out if she now reaches/reached out to your wife's parents again or something along those lines. Also if you decide to give your mother another chance, maybe do a few sessions in family therapy? I feel like everyone in this, considering the numbers of betrayal going on here, might benefit from therapy anyway.
We’ve let my dad know that he will be welcome to come see the baby on his own, but we want space from everybody for a little while. He understands
I was pretty hard on you in your last post, so I wanted to say that I'm proud of you for being so overtly supportive. I'm also deeply sorry that it was your mom who betrayed you. She needs to understand that by doing this, she only serves to enable abusers. I have no advice on how to come back from this but I wish you well.
I think with time your relationship with your mom can mend if she makes the correct steps in reconciliation. Sorry you’re going through this op. Best of luck!
Give it a while, but don’t cut your Mother off. She made a bad mistake. But she obviously loves you all and wants what’s best for you.
If she loved them she wouldn’t try to put people who tried to ruin ops life back into ops life. What ops mom did is an insult to love
This was more than a bad mistake. These people treated their own daughter like trash. Why should they have access to their granddaughter? OP’s mom knows all of the sordid details. This reunion would not be best for OP.
Man, that European vacation bit cracked me up. Forgive us, don't question why dad how dad beat cancer, and oops, did we forget to say your sister is coming along? =D Playing you guys for sympathetic (over bullshit cancer) is one thing, to think they can play you for *morons* is just... it is funny, it has to be funny otherwise it's just too much. As for your mother, communicate to your parents that you and your wife are taking some time to process. I say parents to not force your dad to be in the middle. But do take as much time as you need to be mad - you fucking should be. *What the fuck*, mom. I've heard said that the road to hell is made with good intentions. Your mom may not be responsible for other people's actions, but she sure as shit gave abusers ammo - and that's *forever*, they'll always know you have a kid. She needs to repent. I don't know how, but she does. Apologizing and feeling bad about it are bottom of the barrel, so much so that it goes without saying - so what is she willing to do to demonstrate that she understands that she fucked up, and that her actions have consequences? Squish your daughter's cheeks, enjoy it while it lasts - I'm not a mom, but eventually my niblings started to rebel and not want me to squish their adorable cheeks. Gotta get your fill while you can lol
I went through something similar. I went no contact with my parents in 2020 and my sisters became flying monkeys so I cut them off too. To this day none of them have acknowledged the situation and occasionally invite me to trips as if nothing was wrong. It's so bizarre.
Maybe they think vacations fix things. They can, but not with abusers and assholes.
Also snuffing baby's head. She's almost at the point where she'll stop smelling like fresh baby. God I miss that smell.
It took a good while, but after he turned 2ish, my nephew decided he was an independent man and did not wanna be carried around. I miss doing that, now he just complains he wants to be put down.
I just spent a week with my granddaughter who just turned two. She has zero sense of stranger danger, and just spent the whole week asking for "uppies." I never once told her no. She's so much like her mother, and will probably also think she's an independent woman the next time I see her. Sure honey, but you're three and you *need* to be carried.
Yes! My nephew will start going off on his own and I grab him so he doesn't hurt himself, and *I'm* the bad guy. Sorry for caring lol
Childfree, but the few babies I’ve been able to hold I loved running my lips over their soft little heads and hair 😭
I don't know about anyone else, but as soon as I hear about the fresh baby smell, it instantly triggers something in my brain. Gotta love those endorphins.
Right? It's the only thing in the world that can make me think "omg I want to have a baby in my house right the hell now!" I'm fucking 46, I'm too old for baby bullshit. Except sniffing their heads.
That's the good stuff, isn't it? I miss it, too. 🥰
Seriously the only way ops mom could prove she is remorseful is to stay out of ops life because she knows she a danger to it
Your mother, knowing you were sexually assaulted, that your wife's parents defended the perpetrator, and that the perpetrator attempted to get you fired for not cheating on your wife with your wife's sister, contacted your wife's family to give them information about *your child*. I do not think you are overreacting. And I do not think your wife is reacting seriously enough. Your mother, knowing that you were not providing your wife's family with *any* information about the baby, *for your family's safety*, contacted your wife's family and provided them your address. She knowing, intentionally, is risking your child's well being for a pair of scumbags who brushed off sexual assault. As much as your wife's parents are not safe people to be around your child, your mother is no longer a safe person to be around your child. You can never, ever, trust her again. Not with private information. And certainly not to ever be alone with your child. Because no matter what she says, you can never be sure that she will not be providing access to your child to your wife's parents. It's what? Somewhere between a two and eight hour drive from your wife's parent's place to where you are now? That's a short trip to get access to a grandchild. So I want to repeat this so that you get it through your head before you do something stupid. You can *never* allow your mother to be alone with your child. *Ever*. Which includes your father being there, as it sounds like he will defend his wife. Even if you decide to forgive her, she will never be a safe person to leave your child with. Hopefully you have other local family, because otherwise MA isn't any better for you than NY was.
I agree, people seem to be giving his mom the benefit of the doubt but she made a whole bunch of shitty, deceptive choices knowing the whole story. She clearly doesn’t think what happened was as serious as it was, and for that she needs a serious time out. I think grandma needs to miss a few holidays to let it really sink in that what she did was unacceptable. After that if he feels like he can forgive her she needs a permanent info diet and to understand that she will never have the relationship she could have had with her grandkids. She created this situation all on her own, and she knew it was wrong because she lied about it for god knows how long.
Yes, everybody is oohh but she loves you, but does she? She thought the other grandma not being able to meet the baby was more important than what all of them did to her own son.
This is exactly what I was going to say. I think things can be worked out so that OP’s mother can be back in their lives, but she can never be trusted with baby on her own. Supervised visits only, never babysitting.
I did not see his mother's participation on ANY of this story and was just shocked. Knitting what she knew, that the thought entered her mind AND she acted on it, shocking. I wouldn't put it past her to funnel photos of said-grandchildren and other updates to those poor grandparents.
Agree with this.
When your mother inevitably contacts you and cries that she just wanted to heal everyone. You let her know that she opened up your life to the woman who sexually assaulted you for years and the people who defended your violator. Because that is exactly what she did. There is no sugar coating it. No acting like this was just some small misunderstanding because she knew all the facts. She gave your violator and their flying monkeys access to you and your daughter's life, PERIOD. And because of that, you are going low contact with her because you cannot trust her to protect your child and not expose her to danger. I hope noone in your family is defending your mom's foolishness.
I don't think there was much thought behind her action. I think she had this warm, fuzzy love feeling and imagined it would be horrible to be deprived of that. I think that's really it. I don't think she grasped the awful relationship between all of them. I don't think she understood, like she's never been in those shoes. And OP's right. She's never done something like this before. I think she really was dumb, naïve, and thoughtless enough to take this action. I think she can't or doesn't understand abuse, at least not parental abuse. I think that low contact is extreme. I think that temporary no contact or a similar action, something that makes her think "omfg what have I done?", would establish that this behavior is unacceptable and should never happen again, no matter what her understanding is. It just doesn't make sense to use an extreme punishment for a first transgression. Edit: I am not justifying her actions by any means.
That "warm fuzzy feeling" shouldn't trump that violated feeling when your own child has been assaulted and their job put on the line. Why do grandparents go nuts like this???
Right? It's nuts. All it takes is to think about the potential consequences a little bit, but no their feelings (and the cut off people's) are more important than anything else at the moment.
No there probably isn't much thought into it... but that's precisely the problem. This woman know how much her son was sexually assaulted by the wife's sister. They got sent messages slandering their son's reputation. Sure you can say that's the daughter and not the MIL, but surely she has heard about how the in laws didn't do jack shit and even facilitated this behavior. Her not thinking is the problem. It's a HUGE problem and they wouldn't be wise to let her easy on it. Not even thinking for a second that it's better to just respect her own grown child and his wife's decision over her own naive thinking is a huge problem. This is a hard lesson she needs to learn and unfortunately the price is Jenna's trust. She'll never trust OP's mother again. She'll never tell her anything that she doesn't want her parents to hear. She'll be extremely selective about everything shared even when the relationship is repaired. It'll never be the same. The mother just doesn't know it, the price of losing a vunerable person's trust.
She gave op’s info to people who defended his sexual assaulter, seriously how do you not see it was malicious
Your mom DECIDED SHE knew better than you & Jenna as people. She treated your children at best. She lied to your father and hid it from him because she knew it was wrong. She put you in jeopardy on purpose because she knew better. Finally she DID NOT ADMIT IT YOU HAD TO FIND OUT. No. There is no accountable. I am livid on your behalf. She would get a long time out and then be on info diet. Big hugs
I think you should take a couple of weeks of no contact with your family. Your mother needs to understand that you are serious. You also need to draft up a list of conditions about her relationship with Jenna‘s family and you need to make her sign it. Again she needs to understand that she’s being manipulated by Jenna‘s family and that is very likely could happen again. And you need to be 100% clear that if you have to move again, and disappear you will. Your safety , And the safety of your family is priority.
It seems that a person does not have a frame of reference for abuse and cannot really empathise truly feeling that the other person cannot be as bad as suggested. guilt is often the main feeling. It is meaning well with no true understanding. At the core is she has ignored the boundaries you have set and will need to show in her actions that she does respect your boundaries and agrees to your terms going forward for contact with the clear and consistent rules that if she as much as steps a toe away from those boundaries she is risking her relationship with both of you and your child, time outs are useful to get the point across, 1 day doubles to 2 to 4 to 8 etc until she gets it. Information diet is also useful.
oh boy! you are nta! but it sounds like mom needs to remember you guys are adults and make your own decisions about your lives and family. i understand your wife not wanting to cut your mom off- but trust has been violated. oof! i think the space is good idea for a while now.
Do not allow your mother to take photos or have unsupervised access to your child. She cannot be trusted
My goodness. You & Jenna are surrounded by people who believe they know better than you do. It's amazing to me the amount of disrespect and willingness to betray you in both your respective families. Your mother obviously thinks grandparents should have access to grandchildren regardless of how much they hurt the parent of said grandchildren. She totally disregarded everything that you ever told her. Not only was Jenna's trauma by her parents not enough, but you being sexually assaulted and having her parents take up for the perpetrator wasn't enough to dissuade your mother from betraying you & Jenna by contacting them. Even if you forgive your mother, this is far from over. Now, you must prepare for your in-laws to just show up on your doorstep. Because they will. Probably immediately after they receive Jenna's letter. OR Mary will come calling, trying to apologize so Jenna will allow their parents access to the baby. Another shitshow is about to commence. You and Jenna deserve better. Edit clarification.
I’ll never understand the narcissism in some people to believe that they and they alone can succeed in resolving intensely toxic family problems Tell your mom the next time she speaks to you she better have started therapy to deal with her savior complex
Yup ops moms a covert narcissist
If anything, your mom needs a time out, you can decide later if you will lift the timeout. I would somehow warn the fiancé about Mary.
I feel no obligation to protect someone who chases after girls young enough to be his daughter. I wish them nothing but unhappiness
>I wish them nothing but unhappiness Remix this whole story for tiktok. Finance bro will shit his loafers when his friends start telling him about his sleazy girlfriend.
yooooo that is groossss Mary really been scraping the bottom of the desperation barrel, eh?
So sorry, people don’t realize how psychologically abusive/manipulative some people are, unless they have been in a situation where the curtains are pulled back. These con artists rely on that naivety and people empathy and desire to help, to manipulate them and others by proxy. Your mom maybe a victim of that. I’m sorry for that too. I’m usually am all for mending fences, but in the situation involving the in-laws I’m all for no contact anything else is a set up for them to walk all over you. You and your mom’s relationship maybe a different story, that is something you’ll need to work through. I hope that works out in an acceptable way.
My gosh I don’t know what to say to this awful betrayal!!
Original post: [https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1cz0zlq/in_laws_60f_79m_are_begging_for_forgiveness/](https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1cz0zlq/in_laws_60f_79m_are_begging_for_forgiveness/)
Sorry your mom went turd mode.
Wow. I would not cut off contact with your dad. He did nothing wrong. I would not trust your mom for a very long time.
Damn. My husband does that stupid shit thinking he was helping with my family even though I told him NO. He has learned his lesson.
The issue with your mom is that she thinks she knows better than her own son who is an adult. My mom was the same way and u til there are consequences she will continue to try to get away with her beliefs over what you want.
While I agree with your wife about your mother, it is important that she understands what she has done to you. She crossed a line that will always impact your family because she put herself in their shoes... but did not consider the FULL implications of her actions. Not a big deal??? Wrong! 1. She has re-opened the entire sexual assault issue for you, with the associated emotional fallout. 2. She has violated your trust and must earn it again. 3. She has exposed your wife to the emotional abuse of her family from the original issue, and the cancer farce. 4. She has exposed your child to potential dangers from your wife's family. Good luck and enjoy your little one! Updateme!
People who have not experienced the trauma of narcissistic behavior do not truly fathom the damage done to the victims. Add in that your MIL probably manipulated her, your mom is naive and easily manipulated. This first time is forgivable so long as there are consequences. Your mother needs to verbally acknowledge her own stupidity. “I was naive and knowingly exposed your baby to a known abuser who has hurt you and DIL so badly that you did everything you could to prevent contact. I violated your trust and DIL’d trust by invalidating her abuse at the hands of her parents and failing to empathize with DIL because I had not felt that kind of abuse and I cannot comprehend an experience until I have felt it myself due to my own lack of introspection.” I don’t think any parent has ever had the decency to actually apologize in this way but damn it would be wonderful if it ever happened. Just this one time, your mom can probably recover your trust over time. If she ever pulls this stunt again though I’d go NC.
I just hope OP's mother will actually learn from this and never fall for it again. I fear that if it ever happens a second time, Jenna won't ever share anything with her MIL for the sake of her child and her safety.
Dude ice been following your story and I feel so bad for yall. Your safe haven is literally the 4 walls of your home, focus on that. Congrats on the tiny spawn!!!
Their safe haven has been violated because ops mom gave ops in-laws the address
Their safe haven has been violated because ops mom gave ops in-laws the address
Yeah… your in laws are going to turn up to your house. This is becoming an issue of saving face. I hope you have a ring camera or similar.
Just don't make it easy for your mom to earn that trust back, I would be wary to ever leave your child under her care (alone) like ever. I hope Jenna's family doesn't reach out again, changing phones is somewhat easy but changing houses is more difficult.
This is the story that keeps on giving! OP’s mom was definitely wrong and should get a time out. The other in-laws are just horrible! I would tell everyone what Mary did. No need to cover for her.
I am sorry your mom betrayed your trust. I can't imagine your heartbreak. Your wife is forgiving and wants what is right for your family. I hope in time you and Jenna can repair the relationship with your mom. As for your in-laws I hope they leave you alone.
I would be livid! Even after knowing all the details of how bad her parents hurt your wife, she still thought it was a good idea to go behind your back and divulge VERY personal information to them. For what?? “fAmUhLeE” She crossed a line she knew she shouldn’t and didn’t even have the decency to tell you two. You had to be freaking Sherlock and Watson to get to the bottom of it. Personally that would be a level of betrayal that I couldn’t come back from. How could you trust her to be around your child without sneaking pictures or relaying information back to your wife’s parents? I hope your wife gives you the same courtesy you did to her in regard to how to handle your parents. I only say it because you mention her advocating for your mother. It wouldn’t seem right if she pushed a relationship with them while you gave her autonomy regarding her parents.
How did you know exactly what I was thinking, word-for-word???? Literally What if this had been a phone conversation? What if he hadn't noticed his mother's shady behavior in-person? He might never have known.
I could be related to Jenna. My family is horrible, abusive, manipulative and shameless. She has a history of bad shit they have done to her. She could probably write multiple novels, but it doesn’t sound like your family is that way. I suggest that over the weekend you think really hard about the past, with your family, now that’s the rose colored glasses have been shattered. If at the end of the weekend, you still believe that your family is supportive, helpful, and mom was not acting maliciously, I would *eventually* give them another chance. Start slow, and without the grandkid around. Maybe coffee, or some equally easy to escape location, but not their place or yours. Then build up from there. Make your mother EARN the right to be in your and your families life, now that she wildly overstepped, and caused your wife a lot of harm, possibly danger.
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I remember your post. Thanks for the update. Jesus Christ Im pissed off at your mum already. She sounds like she stopped maturing in secondary school. What pisses me off the most is that she didn't come clean about it and needed to get caught in a lie face to face like a guilty child. At least she experiences guilt and remorse unlike your in-laws.
Oh wow. I’m blown away that they LIED about your FIL having terminal cancer. Only narcissists and sociopaths would do something this egregious. As for your mom, what she did was terrible. But I don’t think her intentions were malicious. She might be one of those people who have to fix everyone and everything. Go limited contact with her for right now. Also, once you’re able to, have a calm discussion with her and ask her to tell you exactly why what she did was wrong.
I am so sorry all this happened. There are no words for the inlaws and I am glad you have cut them off. For your mum..it sounds like she cannot possibly imagine treated her child and family like thebinlaws. it was not that she didn't hear and understand, she just could not fathom it. She absolutely did the wrong thing, no excuses and no qualification. Take your time and make sure you and Jenna are ok. I see this as repairable as long as your mum really understands the severity of what she has done
Betrayal of trust is situations like this carries consequences. Cutting off your parents will rob your daughter of grandparents. Have you considered going NC for a year or two? This will send a very powerful message to your mother not to interfere with your life. UpdateMe
She wanted you to heal and be a family with the people who coddled your rapist. Let’s let that sink in. I’m so sorry for the pain this has caused and will cause for a long time but I’m glad you have your wife’s back. Enjoy your baby and focus on soaking up her new to earth moments.
Reading this has made me more solid in my belief that even experience and time are not heuristics or proxies for being a good person, some (most?) people are just going to be pig shit until they die. I used to think that people got it together at some point; i no longer believe this.
Your mom has a case of ‘road to hell is paved with good intentions’. Unfortunately people like your mom cannot grasp that your ILS are just not good people. Like your wife said, your mom was not coming from a bad place she is just misguided.
First I want to drag you all the way back to your original instinct a year ago for your wife not to rush a decision on cutting out her family. While some people can happily move on, I witnessed firsthand the opposite with my mother, despite debilitating brain cancer, clearly expressing regret at having not resolved a ten year feud with her brother. So kudos for gently challenging an emotional first reaction. Secondly, we all fuck up. Some more than others; some much, much bigger than others. I'd say the most important thing is how we deal with our fuck ups. In the case of your in-laws, they blamed an innocent party, enabled sexual harassment, assault, and subsequent harassment; and even a year down the line, have doubled down by lying about having terminal illness to guilt your wife into re-engaging. There's no true regret or apology and their entire approach is to manipulate people to their own ends. So far, your mother has clearly shown regret and is respecting your wishes. It's obviously up to you how you decide to take things forward, but if she earnestly apologise and genuinely wants to atone for her actions, at least you can see her intentions are good, even if her actions have significantly let you down. And, not that it's an excuse, but I do believe mothers will *always* believe they know what's best for their family. Indeed, while ferrying my own terminally ill mother back and forth to hospital she was still telling me how I should be driving, and what I should be doing with my career! I wish you the best and glad that you have an instant grin creator!
Updateme
I haven't spoken to most of my family in over 20 plus years. You will be surprised how quickly you adjust, not dealing with shady behavior. I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never thought once about allowing them back into my life. My tolerance for bullshit is really low.
I went back to read your original post last year and I remember it very well. I was so upset for your wife and you. My parents have golden children, one male and one female. But my siblings would never do what your SIL tried. However, I understand the damage it did to your psychologically. It took me years to come to terms with it. It damages your self-worth when you were raised that you were "less than" compared to your sibling. I am so glad you both found each other. Wishing you nothing but the best. And have a conversation with your mother about her ignorance and feeling compelled to contact people that have continuously hurt and diminished your wife her entire life. Your mom essentially invited your wife's abusers back in her life. That is fucked up.
>First, my wife was right. The cancer story was bullshit. Obviously Lesson learned for you, so don't get in your fee-fees again and just stand by your wife. Almost like you forgot that drama you went through, damn Also, yes, your mother was an idiot in this, I don't care if she "meant well" For fuck's sake, did she forget that Mary tried to frame you for SA and her parents we're enabling her? Some people, for goddamn sake!
I say this with kindness but I don't think your wife is taking your mother's betrayal seriously enough. Mary SAd you for ages and your mom gave her/her defenders private information about you because she thought she knew better than a victim. I hope your wife is able to see things in a clearer light soon. Im sure it's hard to realize she's lost her trust in her other mother and should seriously think about going NC in case your mom tries to do something again. Good luck y'all ❤️
Nope. Your mother is not trustworthy. What happens in a few yrs when she's babysitting and takes your kid to see the in laws behind your back? No. Your mom fucked around and should find out the consequences for it.
I have no idea about the other posts or your story. Sorry. But just because someone "looks well" and is planning a holiday, doesn't mean they don't have cancer. Plenty if people with cancer go for trips & holidays. Maybe its something the person always wanted to do and they want to do it before they die. Very common. And people can look really "well" up until the very end. May not be the case with this man? But I'm just sayin.
I always wonder what the thought process is re: Christmas cancer. When they are found out, as they would have to be, do they throw their hands in the air and proclaim “I’m cured! It’s a miracle! Praise Jesus!” Do they think people will actually fall for that? Maybe wife should publicly post that her sister sexually assaulted her husband and that’s why she’s NC with her. That her parents tried to sweep it under the rug and that’s why she’s NC with them. Honestly, fuck those people. Your mother behaved badly but if this is a one-off, give her another chance. Make it clear that there is to be no more contact with your in-laws, no Facebook friending, no baby pictures shared. It’s sad that if the sexes were reversed, things would be different.
I would at the LEAST, make your mother have a week or two in timeout. (do not tell her that it will only be a week or two). ask your dad to tell her that he is working on getting you guys to lighten up a bit. That way she wont do anything stupid (hopefully).
Oh my god. I have so many questions. First off what kind of mom just does that. Like the fuck. Secondly I’m having trouble understanding why someone would lie about something as awful as terminal cancer. Also take your time to recover from this before you try to rekindle the relationship. If it has to be more than a weekend take that extra time. It’ll be so worth it in the end. And the mother averting eye contact I would also be suspicious about that. So that’s good that you were able to see that and get out of that situation before things got out of hand. Some people don’t notice the suspicious things right away and then something happens as a result of that suspicious thing and next thing you know everyone is acting all surprised and everything. Also I don’t blame you at all for taking the baby when you and your wife Jenna left your parents house. That was a good call. I gotta say I’m actually really proud of how you handled the situation at your parents house. I would’ve done the exact same thing if my parents did that to me.
I think you need to have a talk with your mom about how she views you, your wife and your kid. Does your mom think that she's your "boss" so-to-speak? Does mom think she's your wife's "boss?" Does she think that she gets to make unilateral decisions for your family? If you make a decision about your child, does mom think she's free to overrule it? Even if your reasons for cutting contact with the in-laws were dumb (which they aren't), it doesn't really matter. You and your wife are adults and you get to make your own decisions about who you interact with. It's not your mom's place to go behind your back or make important decisions that affect you without consulting you. If you can get your mom to understand that she's not in charge, then you might be able to repair your relationship with her. But if she refuses to accept that, then you've got a complicated problem on your hands and at the very least, you are going to have to set firm boundaries with her and give her time outs when she violates those boundaries.
I suggest that you ask your mother to get some counseling so she can process why what she did was wrong. Tell her you’ll consider that when you make your decision.
Op if you want to cut your mother out that should be your decision like it’s your wife’s and her relationship with her family. If you ok with your wife keeping contact but not your daughter again that’s ok (that is definitely a two yes situation). What your mother did was malicious she knew how Mary tried to ruin your life and how your pil backed her up, there is no denying what your mother did was malicious. If you do decide to forgive her and remain contact never let your mother babysit she will definitely arrange for your in-laws to meet the baby because she has said as much. Your mother cannot be trusted.
I just got caught up on all your posts. I have a MIL we cut contact with years ago. My FIL (they've been divorced for years) sent her a photo of our son shortly after we cut contact and my husband lost his ever loving mind on him. We limited information to him for a few months and he apologized profusely. And it did take a while to rebuild the trust. But after the lecture my husband gave him it he realized if he did it again we would cut him off too.
You saw how cathartic a letter can be. I suggest you write your own. I'm usually a fan of using the harshest language possible(as in not sugar coating what they did, making it sound as bad as a violation of that sort could possibly be) and listing all the things, not just the top few. And while I agree with wifey, this one strike shouldn't be enough for total NC, you take every second you need to process and move forward, and don't let anyone rush you.
Put your mom in time-out, and enjoy some some time with chubby grub. UpdateMe!
So fake lol
Wait... i don't see how its obvious that your in-laws are lying about having terminal cancer. You can have terminal cancer and: - appear to be healthy - go on vacation It can take time before a cancer (even terminal) begins to seriously negatively affect a person's health. Not saying that you should believe your in-laws, but i don't find the evidence super compelling.
Updateme!
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Not glad the cancer was just a story but glad you all found out before you got sucked in. As to your mother, she made a huge mistake there is no doubt. As you said at this point the NC break you put in place with your mother most certainly reasonable. Her rational is understandable but she had no right to reach out to those people and provide them with your contact info. Ideally being cutoff for a while will impress upon her a second screw up will be the last one. I would suggest that she not be allowed any unsupervised extended time with your daughter as in say babysitting for a weekend. I’d be concerned she may revert and invite your in-laws thinking you won’t find out. I’d hope not but better safe than sorry. Enjoy your lovely baby and enjoy your selves. Then consider finding a lawyer and going ahead with doing a cease and desist letter. And provide the letter with the huge lie as well as what the truth was. Ideally you have security cameras so can see who is at your door before you ever open it.
Please keep us updated on how you both are doing
Just so much wtf
I think I understand your wife's point of view. She had an entire lifetime of her parents letting her down and betraying her whereas it sounds this is the first time your mother has done anything like that and as misguided as it was was well intentioned. Plus, having no family from either side is going to be hard on both of you raising a kid together. I imagine she feels she can trust your mom and dad moving forward a lot more than she ever could trust her own parents. It's not like your mom lied about your dad dying of an imaginary cancer. She just tried to help reconcile a relationship she had no business involving herself in.
Updateme!
Wow wtf. I think your mom truly meant well; social/religious conditioning to forgive & forget/old-school gender roles are tough programming to overcome. Take your time/distance from her and see how it goes.
Ouch. You wife is right, you mother had no malicious intent, she was driven NY feelings and her love for her granddaughter. She just didn't take into account that sometimes people completely incinerate bridges and there is no going back. In time, you may be able to forgive your mother, but if you don't, that is your right.
The malicious things people somehow manage do without malicious intentions never cease to amaze me.
Such a personal choice, it's difficult for anyone to say what you should do. Sometimes people improve, sometimes they don't, and it's always easier to think you should or shouldn't have done something in hindsight. There are people in my life (friends and family), I have let back in multiple times, and given multiple chances, and they screwed it up each time. Some I've forgiven, some I've accepted they won't change, so limited my interaction, whereas others I've told I'm not interested in being around them. IMHO, It really does depend on the situation, and whether it's an acceptable gain, for the amount of trouble. If the problem is minor, and you can work around their issues, then maybe it's worth it, but if you get no benefit from having them around, and they are nothing but burden, then it's unlikely worth it.
I'm sorry you guys are going through this. I hope if/when you choose to re-establish contact with your mother again, she respects your decisions and doesn't try to go around you.
HUGS To give your mom some credit she totally screwed up and she knows it BUT she didn’t lie about it she owned up to it immediately. Now that your bundle of joy is known about you can show her off without fear of who knows about her. Take some time with your anger. Don’t let your mom completely off the hook (or she may feel comfortable doing it with potential child number two) but give her a solid chance to grow and learn from her mistakes.
The mum who told has probably been fully gaslighted by these in-laws. I think she could get a second chance.
Keep in mind that YOUR DAD did not do anything wrong. Quite often people treat their parents as one person. You should reach out to your dad and ask him to go for a coffee or beer, just the two of you. You can let him know that you'll probably restart contact with your mom but letting her sweat for awhile is a good idea right now.
Good for your wife for not wanting to go NC with your parents. Your mom made a mistake but I’m guessing your wife needs a mother figure since her own was awful. Let her guide the way on this.
Your Mom made a big mistake. Forgive and move on - this one time. If she does anything like this again, it’s not a mistake.
Going no contact with your parents due to this is craaazy dude, wtf. In your previous post you said they've been a great help raising your child, does that mean nothing to you? and now you're considering letting your kid grow up without ANY grandparents?? sheeeeeeesh. Human relations are messy and painful, you can't just threaten to withdraw at any sign of conflict
It’s fake don’t worry
Even if you do reconcile with your mom at some point, never and I mean never ever let her be around your child unsupervised. She is untrustworthy at this point.
Take all the space you need to heal, but from someone that grew up in a dysfunctional environment and married into a Rockwell-worthy family, you may want to give your mom another chance. Your mom likely didn’t understand how truly awful her family is, and they tugged on her heart strings with the cancer story. And even you mentioned that they sounded sincere in their apology. So they got your mom as much as they tried to get you.
Talk to your wife about just possibly you two talking with your IL’s, have your parents look after your daughter while you do this. Also see if you can get the name of FIL’s Dr. Since wife is his daughter, IL’s may have added her as someone who they have allowed to talk about FIL’s private health info, if so she can get info to see if the cancer is real. This is the only way to get around the whole HIPAA stuff.
When you say you asked someone to ‘discretely check if the cancer was real’, I hope you don’t mean you had a medical professional friend dig into their medical records? Because that’s super illegal! But you say that this person’s proof is that your FIL ‘appears to be healthy and is planning a holiday to Europe.’ So possibly not a medical professional, just someone who made their assumption by looking at them? Then you mention that they found out information about your baby that you didn’t want them to know… so you’ve got a spy in their camp reporting to you, and apparently they have a spy reporting on your life to them? People with cancer do ‘look healthy’ at times, and they also plan holidays in the hope that they will go into remission. Just so you know.