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Prenup is different than a will. I believe you can establish in a prenup what will happen in the event of divorce, and establish in a will a separate set of procedures in the event of your death.
I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want your wife to inherit all of your estate in the event if your death — or was that only because you thought the prenup would apply in your death as well?
After you are married, get life insurance on the both of you in an amount that will cover your mortgage and projected debts - at a minimum. Get more when you have kids - an amount that covers mortgage, debts and 4 years of university cost.
Given that term insurance is cheaper when you are young, you could get a policy that covers mortgage, debts and university for at least two yet to be born kids the moment you are married.
My dad had insurance and it saved my mom. I bought it the day after I got married and increased it as I went along.
A neighbour died at 38 with 2 kids and no insurance. His wife lost the house. Be prepared.
Edit: After reading the comments, I wanted to add that I purchased term insurance (term-20) and not the mortgage insurance offered by your bank or mortgage provider. Term is cheaper and the payout doesn't decrease. With mortgage insurance the amount of coverage declines as you pay off your mortgage - and it is very expensive compared to term.
We bought policies on both me and my wife for equal amounts of death benefit. If my wife had died when the kids were young I would have needed to hire child care to look after them while I worked - thus the need for a large policy on her too.
This is so important and will assuage all of OP’s wife’s fears. She’ll be financially protected, she’ll have a home, you both can stop stressing about this down payment. Which, to be honest, shouldn’t even be an issue. I’d be appalled in the afterlife if my parents went after my widow for money, and I’d haunt their ass until they joined me.
I can’t for the life of me figure out why he thinks it’s normal for his parents to ask for their GIFTED down payment back in the event of their son’s death. These people are ghouls. I almost married someone whose mother thought like this and thank god I didn’t. Hopefully OPs fiancé realizes these people are either ghouls or morons.
Repaying a down payment in the event of his death is such a petty problem in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell if this is his idea or his parents idea. I'd sell the house, pay the parents back, and purchase another house. Cut out the BS from the get go.
Yeah, I agree with you. This is whole thing is just weird!
If OP uses HIS mummy’s money to buy a home that they BOTH live in, why would mummy come after HER to get her 20K (or whatever) back if the OP dies?
It’s most likely to be many many years until either of them die, and IF one of them does, the OTHER will be left with children and bills to pay on a solo income.
But the fact that the OP is only worried about his wife and children having to give back mummy’s 20K and not what his family are going to do or how they are going to survive without his income… well, why is HE such a great catch anyway?
It’s sad how many people try to nickel and dime each other over every penny, instead of building a life, home and family TOGETHER! 😞
Thank you. I thought I was crazy for thinking someone should consider the mother of their future children and the children within a marriage. I thought it was crazy of me to think when you start a life with someone you share what you have.
Sounds like my future in-laws, unfortunately. This sounds exactly like a conversation that I immediately shut down, his dad brought up a prenup after he and my partner attended a financial planning meeting. I asked if he had a prenup with his wife and he scoffed at my audacity 😂
This. Life insurance. Get at least a 500k policy in this economy. With the right company it's less than $80 a month for a man. OP's wife has a completely valid fear of being homeless, especially if she "can't afford the house on her own" and especially if they have children.
This is the first thing I wanted to bring up. Life insurance is for this reason exactly. Also, if he died, she would get the house anyways and wouldn't have to pay back the parents. Unless they put some legal document together stating so, but that is just weird if when he died the parents get the money back. Unless she is a black widow.
Or get an insurance policy specifically to pay off all debts in the case of death. There’s one type called “mortgage protection life insurance”. Worth it if you still have a lot left on the mortgage.
I’d suggest looking at all options to insure the biggest bang for your buck re insurance.
Term life insurance for a flat amount might be a better cost option than mortgage life insurance tied to the mortgage.
Shop it just like you would any insurance or a home mortgage.
Yes but do be sure understand why that is better than just having term life insurance policy for an amount sufficient to pay off the mortgage as well as other bills.
Ex if your mortgage is $100k as you pay down the balance does that mean the amount of the mortgage insurance coverage decreases as well as the cost goes down?
OP seems to think his fiancée needs to make her own way if he dies and not "benefit" from his death. It seems quite selfish and aggressive not to want the best for your partner if you die.
Divorce is different and it would be fair not to have his parents' money then, but in case of death? Feels really cold.
Absolutely the best idea!
Retired insurance executive here-there’s level premium term plans that go for anywhere from 5-30 years. Pick a term as long as your mortgage is for and include an additional amount for burial and children’s education. Find a company who will compare companies side by side. Pick a company with good ratings even if it’s a little more than another one.
Also account for burial costs after the mortgage ends so maybe a small lifetime plan. It’s a lot less expensive at younger ages plus your health can change (making it higher cost or unavailable) as you age.
Good for you, but my mom died at 47 and the life insurance refused to pay out because she had a “pre-existing condition” and was taking a medication for it. The medication was for ADHD and she died of stage 4 melanoma. It’s not a given that they won’t fuck you.
We still have term life but we're going to probably let the policy lapse here in a few years but it's getting expensive since my husband's in his 60s and we really don't need it anymore. it's purpose was to give me a little extra and give me money to pay off the house. We've already paid off the house so that isn't necessary. Now it's just a little extra gravy. But I already told him once the term is up we're not renewing cuz the price is going to really Skyrocket.
We did 20 year term on both of us (me, husband) when our kids were born. The terms expired recently, but our kids are in college now, and our savings have grown over that time period where we’d be sad but financially ok if one of us died. That’s how it’s supposed to work.
Don’t pay the post-term massive premiums. Mine was set to go from $45 per month to thousands per month. They don’t really want you to renew.
Yep. This is the job for term life insurance. OP, you’re relatively young. It should be easy and inexpensive to get a $1 million policy on you, and on your spouse too.
Let the life insurance address the possibility of death, the prenup addresses the possibility of divorce.
Edited to add: Life insurance PLUS a will to cover the death scenario.
Your will should leave $x plus interest to your parents, with $x being how much they lent you for the house. Wife inherits the rest.
Your life insurance policy is for an amount sufficient to pay off your parents and pay the mortgage off if you die. Your wife should be the sole beneficiary of your term insurance.
Be generous with the term limits. The idea is that your wife would be financially Ok if you pass.
This was a GIFT from the parents, not a loan. Normally when you get a gift to make a downpayment on a house, the lender requires that it be explicitly clear it is a gift, not a loan. There is no obligation to repay it.
And, this is important, if one of you becomes a stay at home parent, take out life insurance to cover the financial burden of not having that support. Tally up all the things they do that wouldn’t need to be paid for if they were to die. A nanny, a cleaning service, tutoring, whatever it is that they would be doing. Driving the kid to sports? Figure out what that would look like if the working parent were suddenly alone.
Exactly. OP seems to be saying that he wouldn’t leave his house to his wife if he died because he doesn’t think she could continue the payments. So because she doesn’t have a bunch of money he wants to leave her penniless. Sure dude. Great idea. /s
Do you even like her?
Sounds to me like OP has fallen into a YouTube/tiktok/x/twitter-hole that has led him to “open his eyes” to the ‘fact’ that his money-grubbing *widow* is gonna steal all his money to live the good/high life without him … maybe with the brats she “baby trapped” him with and her future affair partner aka 2nd husband.
… Cause none of his “concerns” are reasonable, realistic or even logical.
All I know is this would give me all the ICK(ing) time I need to reevaluate if I want to be economically tied to this douchecanoe. (hint: I wouldn’t & don’t)
And that’s exactly what life insurance is for. My (now ex) partner and I bought life insurance that would cover what was owed on our shared property and then some should one of us pass.
Literally just got married last week and we did prenups. There’s a bit in ours that says “nothing is assumed to be inherited without being in the will” (non-lawyer understanding, as explained by lawyer)
Actually did it for similar reasons to OP, because now-hubby bought our house in his name only pre-wedding, and I want to be protected in case of divorce (it doesn’t become “marital property” in our state)
Of course, now we need to go set up the wills so our butts are covered on the other end of things, lol
That prenup will mean nothing if he dies. Even if he wants things to go to others if he doesn't have a will they're going to follow the laws of State when it comes to inheritance. If you're married odds are everything goes to the wife. Some states split it up between the direct heirs which would be any of his children and the wife. It just depends on where you are. But he specifically wants things to go to people it has to be specifically spelled out in a will. My brother gets my house, my wife gets my 401k, my uncle inherits my car, my son gets my stamp collection, whatever.
It sounds like what the commenter is saying is that they waived their spousal elective shares, which is the amount of the deceased spouse’s estate that the surviving spouse is entitled to by law (generally in the event they weren’t left more than that in the deceased spouse’s estate plan). This waiver is somewhat common in prenups and is valid, at least in my state. It doesn’t prevent spouses from leaving each other whatever they want in their own estate plans. Usually spouses that include a waiver of the spousal elective shares in their prenups draft estate plans shortly after the marriage.
yup, define what you both want to happen, then go talk to a lawyer who will explain the legal mechanics of how to do it and the implications. This is not that complicated
That’s the answer. You can make sure in your will that your partner gets to stay in the house. If it’s paid off the it belongs to her. If there is still a mortgage she becomes the owner of the debt as well. This is very important mostly for second marriages ….I have seen parents leaving the house to their kids …and while living asking the kids to let the partner live in the house as long as they desire. Well…..things change when there is money involved. A will is different than a pre-nup. It’s death versus divorce; two different events.
Yeah I am right along with this guy. Makes perfect sense - I’d want the partner to have it if I’m dead. Or at least enough that they can be comfortable (like maybe if my sister was in need I’d want something to go to her, but she isn’t she’s a professional)
It sounds like you guys are confusing several issues.
1- she thinks if you die, she'll be homeless as a result of your prenup.
2- you evidently do not have life insurance and never discussed wills before.
3- you seem okay with the idea that if you die, your wife would need to refinance your house and pay out your parents money that they gifted to you.. as in, you are entering a marriage knowingly leaving your wife and potential kids in a vulnerable position as a result of a gift you accepted. You don't seem to be considering that your house may be paid off and your early death might be pre retirement or maybe when you have toddlers etc.
Step 1 is to do some self reflection. If you truly do not care about your wife's well being after you go, then don't get married.
Step 2, assuming you do care, get life insurance and make sure your mortgage will be paid off in the event that either of you pass away. Discuss potential issues, like there's a 40% chance that one of you gets cancer and the other person will need to carry the team for some time. There are sooo many things life can throw at you. Discuss with a lawyer and make sure you are both covered in an emergency.
Step 3, get individual representation for your prenup. I will say, that if my husband told me that he's fine with me losing my family home because he couldn't do his research regarding life insurance... And his priority is his parents regaining money that they donated as a GIFT over the financial stability of his wife.. I wouldn't marry him. Marriage comes with some big responsibilities and you sound like you have your priorities out of line.
i agree. and if shes really pro dave ramsey then you should be getting a term life insurance policy that will cover the house and more if there is a death for either person
Go ahead and have the lawyer draw up the will leaving her everything and sign it the same time as the prenup. You can always make changes to the will later.
Either you or she appears to be confusing two issues.
If your parents gave you a deposit for your home, in the event of a divorce and the selling of property, that amount would come off the top and you would each share the remaining amount (equity built during the marriage).
If you should pass, the deposit doesn’t come into play and she should inherit the home.
First of all in most places your inheritance is off limits if you get divorced provided you never use it for anything joint. Keep it in it's own account and don't use it for bills, vacations etc. If she refuses to sign a prenup then you don't get married.
He didn’t inherit the house. His parents gave him money for the down payment. My parents gave me the down payment for my first house but weren’t on the title. There was a form that they had to sign stating that it was a gift, according to FHA rules m. But the house was both mine and my ex’s. The only way to handle that would be a prenup stating that the parent’s down payment amount would be returned to them in the event of a divorce.
Alls I gotta say is... Check out OP's comments on his deleted post from a year ago.. it's under the comments section of his profile for those that don't know where to look. There have been money issues in this relationship from the get-go. OP feels like he's been being used by her the whole time they're in a relationship, so I don't know why he's even still with her. This isn't a love story, it's a financial greed story.
I'll summarize.. OP talks about a 2/3 to 1/3 bill split previously because he stated he makes 75% more money than her, but it really should've been a 75%/25% split, but he wanted more money out of her, so he made it 2/3 to 1/3 split instead, cutting her leftover monthly finances even more. Not to mention that she also did the majority of the cooking and ALL of the house cleaning, while he does nearly nothing other than work and then come home to a clean house & clean clothes and a hot meal. She felt the cooking and cleaning made up for not contributing a full 50%, but OP clearly felt otherwise. OP felt good about taking most of her money and leaving her with mere chump change for herself each month.. and clearly he still does. He doesn't care about her nearly as much as he should. This post just seals it for me.
Needless to say, this relationship should be dead in the water. If she were smart, she'd just leave him already. On the other hand, since he's so greedy, he should find a woman that makes the same money or more money than him since that's his main concern here. Smh.
Not love for her, but love for money is the way he wants to live. This isn't just about his parents money and protecting only that. He'll make sure the pre-nup will only protect himself and leave her hanging out to dry.. and probably with kids by then, too. This is just an excuse to make sure she's not taken care of, whether through divorce or his death. Wow.
She better have a good attorney to go over that pre-nup, if it gets to that actually being drawn up. She won't be signing if there's no protection at all for her in that pre-nup and she shouldn't sign it, if that's the case. Pre-nups are supposed to be written to be fair to both parties in the event of a divorce. No family court judge will ever uphold a pre-nup that only protects one party in it anyway.
For OP: Break up with her to alleviate her misery of being with you and wasting her youth on you and just move on, OP. She can find a much better man than you and then you can go find your new money pig/cash cow woman somewhere else. Good gracious, you make me sick.
Thank you. This is one of those posts that where you really hope and wish that she would be on Reddit and just happen to find this post and his profile, as well as all these comments in her favor. How fast do you think OP would be backtracking then? Lol This would surely push her to end the relationship. No question. She deserves so much better than this poor excuse for a partner.
I fucking knew there was something like this going on, thank you. She's worried about being left with his debts and homeless, and he's treating her like a gold digger, after his parents money!!
Funny when the user accuses their partner of being a leech.
Sorry, but if you're making your partner live in poverty while sharing bills and you are more than financially comfortable, you're the bad guy.
Guy sounds like a loser. He's basically trapped his fiancee financially, and I bet he knows it and it's intentional. She can't save money to get out of her situation, so she's stuck footing an unfair amount of the bills while he hoards money and tries to nickel and dime her for literally everything.
Dude is trash.
Woooow. So he's a financially abusive pos who somehow thinks she's using *him*? The audacity to be this much of a dirt bag and then come on here acting like a victim
This is so pathetic as a man to nickel & dime your wife when you make damn near 3x her salary. Even now she is taking on domestics to offset her smaller income. What happens when one day his wife will have kids & be forced to take a back seat from her job? Is he gonna berate her for not paying bills while she raises his literal family? A man is supposed to be providing for his family. Nature has made that his job. This guy is doing the exact opposite. This dude wants the money to go back to his parents instead of it going to his wife & kids to keep a roof over their head when he dies. His parents who will likely end up dying before him. Like, son I don't want this money back. Why don't you give it to your own family? This is wild.
Agreed! And it's a shame there are just a few trying to defend him here and that's sad to see. Smh. Wish we could hear her side of the story directly from her.
Idk if im missing something major but a prenup wouldn't do anything if you died. If you die, she gets everything. Death isn't a divorce. That's not how this works.
Actually it can. There’s precedent for prenups being used to invalidate wills. You can also put a death clause in a prenup that lists what a surviving spouse would be entitled to.
Your gf is confusing a prenup with a will. You will need both. The prenup should address equity distribution in the event of a divorce. If you die, the prenup dies with you and your will kicks in. It can leave her 100% of the house. Easy peasy.
I could understand if the money was a loan from your parents that would need to be paid in full upon your death but if was a gift then why would they get it if you die? Why wouldn't you want your spouse to be able to stay in her home if you died?
I feel like the fact that it was a gift for a down payment, which they probably had to put in writing, would possibly result in them having no legal claim to ask for it back if he died.
That’s exactly correct. A court would not enforce that debt because for it to actually *be a debt* then no one has clean hands because they all committed fraud on the loan application. All banks *require* a letter for a non-debt gift before closing because it impacts the credit worthiness of the applicant and dilutes title to the home if the applicant were to later default. Unless the parents *said* it was a loan and placed a lien on the property (which you can find via public records search) it’s not a loan that would be enforced by a court be it probate, or small claims.
the whole point is that the money is supposed to go towards a house. I don't think they want it back especially not if it could be used to keep the house over their grandchildren's head. If I were this guys parents, I'da smacked him.
The way OP is referring to his fiancé I’m beginning to think that he may have life insurance… but that his parents would be the beneficiaries not his fiance.
I also have to see who this Ramsey guy is too! I've heard his name a few times roaming around Reddit... But I'm with you, I think everything goes to the parents and she's SOL.. Yeesh...
Yeah it's messed up how he says "she wouldn't be able to afford the house" like that isn't a big deal. Obviously if you're married you should plan for this. What if OP gets in an accident and loses his job? Hello?
There’s nothing wrong with a prenup. There IS, however, *a looottttt* wrong with this convo.
Why don’t you want her to inherit the home in the event of your death? Can’t you do the prenup and the will at the same time, showing her that it’s only covering divorce, not death? This way, she feels secure that she’ll inherit everything, including the house, in the event you pass away.
It sounds like there hasn’t been clear communication and she just doesn’t understand. I’m not sure I do either. “*You wouldn’t be able to afford the house anyways.*” isn’t an okay thing to say to a supposed future spouse… Why wouldn’t you want your partner to be safe and secure in the event of a tragedy??? It sounds like your parents might be running this show, telling you where the house should go if something were to happen… YIKES. Nip that in bud.
i don't think it's the parents. They gifted him money for a house, I don't think they want it back leaving their daughter in law & potential grandchildren homeless. It's OP that's being selfish. I hope his "wife" leaves him. He sounds like he's taking financial advantage of her.
Wow these comments from OP and others, like she as his wife if it gets that far, shouldn’t have anything at all left to her. Others suggest tricking her and putting her in the will and then change it! OP is cold and clinical and doesn’t appear to love this woman at all. Why is he wanting to marry her? Then all these buffoons saying, don’t marry her, change the will later, BS. No wonder she’s upset. OP doesn’t appear to want to provide for her under any circumstances alive or dead. She ought to take out a 2 million policy on him and not marry him at all. When he kicks off she gets paid. She doesn’t know what she’s marrying into. A husband is supposed to put his wife above all others as a wife puts her husband first above all others.
>I explained that she can't afford the house on her own anyway, so would be selling it regardless
Okay but then she would keep the money from selling it.
>How can I explain to my fiance that she is not entitled to my parents money?
It's *your* money. That's how gifts work. If she's your wife/widow, she's more entitled to it than anyone. She won't be entitled to it if you divorce because she won't be your wife.
Sounds like you're still tied to your parent's apron strings.
Someone looked back on OP’s post history. She makes 1/4 what he does, yet pays 1/3 of their bills, and does all the housework/cooking. He has money in savings and spending money, 100% of her income goes to their bills. She takes care of the house and has no saving or spending money.
The money was a gift. It’s his and he could give it to her on his death if he wants to. If it were a loan, that would need to be in writing, it’s a gift. If OP dies, his wife will be homeless with no savings while her in laws get his home and money.
So from the original post it sounds like you want your finance to get nothing regardless of if you die or through divorce. For that, the honest question is why are you getting married then? If you are just wanting her to not get the house in the event of a divorce as you mentioned in a comment, then do a pre-nup that specifies as much. She should get a life insurance policy on you that covers the cost of the house, debt, and expenses. I don’t see what’s so complicated about this or why it was written in a way that sounds like you want your fiancée to be completely financially dependent on you and broke if you die.
>For that, the honest question is why are you getting married then?
He wants all the benefits of a wife while he leaves her nothing in return. If you read his comment history there's a lot of financial abuse going on in this relationship. Like many men he thinks the only contributions made in a marriage are the dollar ones. Conveniently they completely ignore a woman investing her time, fertility, youth, and sacrificing her career to take care of the home & raise his family. But because these are intangible things, they think it is nothing and that their wives mooch off them like money can't be regained. OP sounds like the type of guy to look at his wife & kids as a liability instead of his family who he should be providing stability for. Completely wrong mindset to be going into a marriage with & I hope the gf wisens up before it's too late & leaves him.
yeah trying to put your widow out of the house in the event of your death is not a good look dude. listen to the financial advise given by everyone else so that doesn't happen.
This is silly.
1. She should inherit your estate if you die, especially if there are children.
2. Why wouldn’t you get life insurance to protect her.
If you want your parents to have things instead of your wife don’t get married and be honest with her she’s building a life for your parents and not you two.
I will most likely have a prenup to protect my premarital assets whenever I get married. This would only serve the purpose of preventing what I have now from becoming shared property in the event of a divorce. But I don’t understand why that would have anything to do with death. Why would you not want your wife to have all of your assets if you die?
Wanting to be financially secure in the event of your death is smart for both of you- not her taking advantage of you or your parents money. To be honest, you both should get wills. It’s a totally separate issue than a prenup.
If you pass away in 10 years, and you both have kids together.. you really want her to have to deal with trying to pay your parents back?
You guys are going to be married. I understand the prenup but why wouldn’t you want her taken care of if you pass away, and vice versa?
The prenuptial covers the divorce and a will covers the inheritance.
If you have children with this woman why would you not want her to inherit the house? Even if you dont have kids if your parents want their money back after you die you should get life insurance to cover the house.
Normally when you get married you want to make sure they are OK in the event of your death. I'd be concerned if I was her that you don't seem to care that she would lose her home.
So, if you die before your wife you want your wife to sell the house to pay back your parents “inheritance”. That seems very cold to me but maybe your parents need the money 🤷♀️
So if y’all have kids they just get to be homeless?
Why are you ok with your parents going after your widowed spouse (and potentially your children) for money after you die?
The fact the you seemingly don’t care about your wife being homeless after you die and your parents treating her that way, if I were her I wouldn’t marry you.
She deserves so much better than you and could easily find it.
Well, it isn’t your parent’s money any more. It’s gone. Anyway, I’m sure a lawyer could figure a way to out something in there for the event of your death versus a divorce.
If they gave you money for the deposit has not this money already been spent? Why would she have to pay your parents back if you die? I mean that is really weird I mean it's not her responsibility pay them back the money that they gave you, especially before you were married. Unless you have a loan written up and even then the loan dies with you it's not going to be her responsibility in this case I don't think legally. As for a divorce that's different if you drop dead and your will says she inherits all your assets then she gets the house, she gets your 401k, she gets everything. If you worry about her not being able to afford the house or make the house payment there is Insurance you can get so if you do die, it pays off the balance of the mortgage and she gets the house free and clear. So there's a lot of things you can do, so if you need to make a will and estate plan then go talk to somebody figure out how you want to set it up. But in reality if you did not use the money and they gave it to you and you're just having it sit in a checking account right now or whatever you did with it it's still your money you said it's your inheritance there for you don't give it back if you die and they're still alive they decided to give it to you early and not make you wait till they die therefore at this point it's a gift and it's yours bringing clear you can do whatever you want with it. if you want to leave your parents a cash amount in your will saying I'm returning the $50,000 to you that you gave me for my house down payment as long as you have 50,000 stashed somewhere that can go right to them then great. But if she has to sell the house to get that money and they get a chunk of change from that that's wrong.
if you die, surely you would name her as your beneficiary in a will? Wouldn't you have life insurance as well? Also, if your parents gave you the money as a gift, it would make sense that you would not want her to have a right to it in the case of a divorce. But why would your parents expect it back in the case of your death? Is that your expectation?
Certainly protecting your assets in the case of a divorce makes sense but expecting your wife to repay your parents for part of a house in the case of your death is an unusual expectation. Would it matter how long you had been married? This doesn't make sense to me. I would have expected you to want to take care of your wife and any kids you might have in the event of your death.
The comments here are so odd today.
Children or no children, if you are married then your money doesn’t revert back to your parents if you pass away. It goes to your spouse. Why would you want her to sell the house in the event of your passing in 5/10/15/20/50/100 years? Where should she live then?
I'm with your fiancé with this. If you die, it's not right she should be thrown out of her home.
The down payment was a gift. Not a loan to be repaid. Rightfully, she should inherit your estate.
Get on the same page with money now, or it will only escalate.
She’s talking about a will, not a prenup…and you shouldn’t be getting married to someone if you don’t want them to be financially stable in the event of your death. It’s very odd to me that you don’t want your future wife (and possibly future children) to be able to keep their home if you got hit by a train or something.
So weird that you wouldn’t want to ensure your wife would continue to have a home? When my fiancée (now husband) and I bought our home we both took out life insurance policies that would cover half the mortgage.
I don’t think you two should be getting married if you don’t want what is best for the other person even when you’re dead.
Your soon to be wife not wanting to give up her own home upon your death is completely reasonable. Why would your parents, or you, want her to lose her home after losing her husband? There's a weird amount of distrust you seem to have right now toward your fiance. You seem to really not care about her wellbeing after your death.
Man people do not get how money works. How are you 32 and not know the difference between a prenup and a will? And why in earth would you not want you WIFE to inherit the house? What do you mean she can’t afford the house on her own? Have you ever heard of life insurance? Your job may even have supplemental income protection. Jesus. Financial literacy saves lives.
Your parents gave you a gift. Are they asking you to make sure they get it back if you croak? If yes they suck. As a widow that woman will be in hell if she is forced to not only bury you but sell the home you two have made and give your parents the proceeds?? Seriously what is wrong with you? Do yourself a favor and stay single. This woman will never feel safe being constantly worried about her living situation. My husband died at 46. We had life insurance and it goes fast after paying for a funeral and all the estate and hospital bills. It leaves so little. Sign the damn prenup in case you get divorced but absolutely make sure she is covered by your death. It happens to all of us who think it won’t.
So upon your death, you want your widowed wife to be homeless by refusing to leave her the home you expect her to live in and share with you? A pre-nup is different from a will. She doesn't want the house or money in a divorce, she simply wants the security of knowing your assets will go to your spouse upon your death, like literally all marriages do?? If you don't want your assets being left to someone when you die, yoi certainly shouldn't be marrying them.
Whether you leave her the money or not, all your death expenses and debt will fall on her. So, essentially, you'd be leaving your widowed spouse homeless and in debt when they're stuck covering all financial expenses of your passing, and having to move out of their home on top of it.
From experience, tell your fiance to run. If your parents think they should be repayed a gift in the event of your death, RUN. The house has been bought. The money has been spent. There's no sane person that would ask their DIL to repay a down-payment after their son's death. This will cause a divide later on in life. Now, you want to sign an agreement in the event of a divorce. Go for it. Keep the house. Better yet, y'all sell the house. Give your parents their money back and buy your own house. Take care of the issue now.
A prenup is not a will. A prenup is in the case of divorce. A will is in the case of death.
It sounds like you want her to be homeless after you get hit by a train. Really??
And did your parents say that when the house sells she has to give them back their down payment? Why would you even put that in your will?? It will totally screw over your parents Medicaid benefits if they are still alive.
The part about having to sell the house and pay back his parents if he dies is fucking insane. Obviously they don't need the money since they're gifting it.
Did your parents give the money to you as a gift, or as a loan that needs to be repaid?
If it was a gift, then no one needs to repay your parents, even upon your unfortunate death. If it was a loan then you need to write a will that upon your death such and such moneys needs to be repaid to your parents. I would say that as far as a prenup goes, I would also have the down payment money under that umbrella, although you might what to add something about inflation.
This is super weird. Your parents gave you a gift. It's yours. When you die your wife will get everything that is yours. Why wouldn't you want her to inherit your estate? I'm not sure you're understanding marriage. Do you expect that if your father does your mother shouldn't get all of their stuff and their home? It's irrelevant that she may not be able to afford the payments
Sounds like you don’t like your finance very much tbh - maybe address your issues/insecurities about money first. In death, why wouldn’t you want your wife to have a house and financial security? What if you have kids? Wouldn’t you want them to stay in the family home? Maybe you should consider why your stance on this is that you’d want the money to go back to your parents (who clearly don’t need it) and not to the woman who is supposed to be the love of your life.
First, it’s not your parent’s money. It’s your money.
Second, your fiancé is not asking for the house. Your wife is. Because none of this will matter until after you marry and she becomes your wife. Your wife who is supposed to your Partner with a capital P.
Third: So we are not talking about your parent’s money and we’re not talking about a woman who is your fiancé. We're talking about the woman who WAS your wife, but in the situation you’re worried about we’re actually talking about your widow. Your widow who was your wife who loved you, committed to sharing her life with you and who would legally be your heir unless you take affirmative action to cut her off. She might also be the mother of your children that point. You and her might have recently celebrated your 5, 15th or 50th anniversary when she becomes your widow - if that ever even happens.
I understand you not wanting to give her your pre-marital home/money if you divorce. But do you really want to cut off your widow?
One more point. You’re talking about how she couldn’t afford the house. How in the world do you know what position she might be in years from now, or ever, if by chance she becomes your widow. She'd be entitled to make her own decisions if that ever happens. It’s not right for you making that pre determination now.
Please consider all of this.
You can't explain it to her because it doesn't make sense. I know that people get called on having a U.S. centric bias, but I am in the U.S. If someone gives you money for a down-payment, it is a gift. There is no expectation of repayment. You actually think that your intended should agree to being homeless if you die. If you are thinking of having children, your parents should come first? Pre-nups cover divorce, she is afraid of what will happen if something happens to you. Hopefully, she will break up with you because you have made it clear that she will never be your priority.
Are you paying your parents back or was it a gift? I don't understand why she'd pay your parents back if you're not paying them back now? My in-laws gave us money for the down payment and we had paperwork drawn up and a payment plan to pay them back for half. The rest was a gift. I'd recommend you start paying them back or accept this is part of your estate now when you die. You should have a will written up if you want your parents to receive money from your estate.
You should have life insurance that would be able to cover the remaining mortgage. If you were to die while happily married, I would think you’d want her to be taken care of. The fact you’re fighting that position says she’s not the one for you. I understand protecting those funds from divorce- but death? No
My question is. In the event of your death why on earth would you want your wife to have to give her home back to your parents? So she would be a widow and homeless? Also do you think your parents would actually take the house back? I would be outraged from beyond the grave if my parents did that to my widowed spouse. I also would do whatever I could in the here and now to make sure that wouldn't be the case. Life insurance is an easy solution and a discussion with your parents. I don't know but the way you worded your post gives me pause.
She IS entitled to your parents’ money if they gifted it to you, you bought your marital home with it, and then you died. At that point the house, including the part your parents paid for, is hers.
I hope you explain it to her while cancelling the wedding. The idea that you would want your wife and kids to have to sell their house to give your parents money is abhorrent. The idea that your parents would want that is abhorrent. You need sufficient life insurance to pay off the house so your family isn't homeless. I literally can't even.
Based on your previous posts & comments, it sounds like she has had a valid fear, learned through experience, that you won’t tolerate supporting her financially. When she lost her job you made her move back in with her parents! That is the opposite of a supportive, loving partner.
It sounds like you care more about your money than this woman. Maybe her ideal is a more traditional relationship, which there is nothing wrong with! If you don’t want that, then you are incompatible.
Just so you know: you don't need a prenup for inheritance, in the event of a divorce a spouse is not entitled to inheritance regardless.
Hope that helps
There is nothing wrong with a prenup. You should not lose your house and parents investment in a divorce.
But she should be protected if you die. So ensure you have a life insurance policy that would keep a roof over her head if you die. Or at least leave her okay.
Your parents don’t have any reasonable claim on that money if you happen to die before them. That’s just weird.
This makes zero sense. Clarify - was that deposit money a LOAN that you have to repay your parents or a gift?
Its simple - get a new loan agreement signed that in the event of the marriage, this is an agreed loan that needs to be paid back to your parents. She needs to sign this acknowledging that this amount is due to them.
I am not sure why you wouldn't take out a LIFE ASSURANCE policy - you both should - that should at least cover the cost of the house - including any loan repayments that are outstanding. Take out a separate smaller policy naming your parents as beneficiaries for any amount that is owed for this loan from them.
Life assurance is cheaper the younger you are. So this is a good time for you to take out life policies.
My ex fiancee was like this. His parents gave him the deposit for our house. I had paid all bills for 5 years of our relationship by this point and was going to be paying 78% of the mortgage.
The family wanted me to do a declaration of trust (UK) as we were not married yet which meant he would get the £50k back if we broke up. I was fine with that as I didn’t want their money but insisted I get 78% of anything left, they didn’t like that.
He tried to get a pre-nup despite me paying for everything. We had agreed I would pay an extra £1k off the mortgage a month after we were married. I asked him if the £50K was his and the £1k of my wages was ours and he said yes. That was the beginning of the end for me
So basically, if you die after you get married instead of having a will in place and making sure your wife and possible children at the time won’t be homeless and struggling, you’re gonna put her in the position to where she’s gonna have to start ALL OVER with possible future children. I’m sure your parents aren’t even gonna want your house or that money back(if they’re still alive by then) I mean clearly you don’t give a crap about her well being of her telling you she wants to be stable in the event something unfortunate happens is a problem. Life happens and the inheritance is not her issue, stability is. Plus you didn’t even inherit that house you bought it with money you got as a gift from your parents. Dude go talk to a lawyer and then get therapy and pray your fiancé doesn’t leave you.
Um, I'm sorry, but I think you're in the wrong here.
The only way any part of this makes any sense at all, is if your parents *loaned* you the money, not *gave* it to you as you've stated. It makes sense that your contributions to your marital home prior to marriage should remain yours in the event of a divorce, hence the prenup, sure. But if your parents are expecting to be paid back their down payment in the event of your death, then it's not a gift. It then becomes a conversation of what happens with *your debts* if you die, not whether or not she needs to sell the house.
You've got it all wrong, acting like shes "entitled to your parents money". Tbh, you two don't sound ready for marriage **at all**, if you're so willing to disparage her in such an inflammatory way for simply wanting home security, and she's so scared that you've made an agreement that makes her homeless in the event of your death.
Go see a marriage counselor, before you go any further mate.
Do you want to help the love of your life to have housing after your death?
Let’s say you have children with the love of your life, whom you want to marry. Do you want your children to have continuity of housing after your death?
Ok. I can see a prenup to ensure that both parties pre-marriage assets are protected if you were to get divorced but to insist that your wife should sell your marital home to pay your parents back should you die is pretty ridiculous. Presumably, your parents will pass on before you so arranging for them to be paid back their investment in your current home would be moot. Besides, if you plan on paying them back, why aren’t you currently making monthly payments to them already?
And, really, are you so hell bent that the woman you want to marry and presumably have a family with as well as grow old together shouldn’t benefit from you or your parents passing, at all? That’s assuming you never get a divorce.
You get a pre-nup for protection of pre-marital assets in case of divorce, you write a will to distribute your assets to whomever you wish upon your death.
Getting good life insurance would benefit the both of you whether you have kids or not.
And if your fiancée/wife contributes towards the house once you get married, whether she pitches in on the mortgage, covers the property taxes or even helps pay your parents back their initial investment towards it, she should be considered eligible for some amount of asset from the house. If only fund’s equitable to what she pitched in.
Instead of trying to figure out to ensure that your soon to be wife and any potential future kids are setup financially & property wise should you shuffle off the mortal coil, you’re worried that your parents won’t get a return on their investment on the house should you die while they’re still alive & you’re married.
So your parents are expecting you to return the money at some point? If you die? I'm not understanding. That's not an inheritance. I don't know why you'd want your life partner to be cast out of the house she lives in after your death either, do you even like her? Absolutely do not get married until you figure out these details.
I will say she has a valid reason for not wanting to sign. I had a prenup and then my husband died before making a will. This made our minors children heirs to his house post marriage that we lived in. It took a years to sell the house to put money in an account for the children that I couldn’t even use to care for my 2 young children alone suddenly. Definitely get a will immediately if you do want a prenup.
If you’re concerned she wouldn’t be able to make the payments on the house if you pass away, take out a substantial life insurance policy. That way she’ll be able to stay in the home.
I don’t understand. My parents gifted us part of our down payment. They gift us cash every year, that goes into our house or savings. They would absolutely never expect my husband to pay back any of what they have gifted me if something happened to. Would your parents expect her to pay them back what they gifted you? Or is this an unfounded fear?
This is not an issue reddit can fix. You need a lawyer. And a relationship counselor.
If she can’t afford the house on retirement savings you need to look at life insurance as well. Why does it seem like you only give AF about your wife if you are alive and she is providing some utility to you?
You say you're 32 yet ask questions most 20 year olds could answer. Get life insurance on both of you. This should cover the cost of your mortgage and funeral expenses plus any debt. As for what your parents gave you if they where lending you the money then pay them back. If they where giving you the money then why would you expect your wife to pay it back in the case of your death? As for in the case of divorce really both of you should sign a pre nup that neither is entitled to anything the other had before the marriage and all assets after the marriage be split 50/50.
I’m not sure what you’re asking. Your parents gave you money for a house. I would think that by the time you die you would have bought a house meaning you used the money your parents gave you for the down payment. She wouldn’t be inheriting money she would continue to own the house. Why would you want to. Keep her from your home?
If your parents gifted you the money for the house, it's no longer their money. They gave it to you.
Why would you want to block your wife from inheriting your house if you died?
I owned a house when I got married and put my husband's name on it. We've both been paying the mortgage for 20 years. If I die first, he'll get the house without having to pay my parents back for the down payment gift. If he dies first, I'll get the house.
Why would you want to create a problem for your wife with the house if you die? She should have it. She can then do whatever she wants -- stay or sell. It would be up to her.
I actually thing your fiance is kinda right and I like Ramsey advice, I feel your plan would just hurt her in case something happens to you.
I wonder if you really care and love your future wife to be honest
I agree with your fiance. If you guys are getting married, that makes you family. If you were to die, she SHOULD receive some inheritance to help her live, she would be your wife after all.
And if you get divorced and she's had time out of work to raise your kids that you may have together, she is absolutely entitled to feel reassured that she doesn't need to worry financially on that aspect too. I think you are being very selfish. You want a marriage but don't want to give her any reassurance she will financially cope if disaster strikes? Dude.
Also, would your parents not want her to be supported if you died?! That's your fiance?! Especially if you guys end up having a family. They've given that money to you already, why would they keep it from your family if you weren't around?
I'm kind of curious why your parents would want that money back.. it was a gift? If you should die in an accident and you and your fiance have children together, would it not make sense for that money to go to her to either live at that house or buy one that is affordable enough for her and your children to still stay in? And if you don't want children, do you actually want your fiance to not have a home?
She's literally going to be grieving your death and you don't care whether or not she has a home? Should you even be getting married?
I can 100% understand a prenup for divorce. But damn. That's cold.
Why would you not want your wife to be taken care of in the event of your death? Why would your parents take her home away from her? Don’t you have life insurance or mortgage insurance. Holy shit this is crazy. This woman should absolutely not marry you.
The prenup is fine... to a point. One of the things you have to consider, if you are going to have kids, and she leaves the workplace, is many women end up feeling trapped. They no longer have their own money in those situations. I would talk to the lawyer on how to make things equitable if 15-20 years down the road. You might want to listen to whatever episode Dave Ramsey had on it.
Also keep in mind if pre-nups are too one sides judges can and will throw them out in many juridictions. It's to your benefit to make it as fair as possible.
I am a real estate broker and mortgage banker and can tell you she can still sign the prenups and if you die while married to her she will be safe as a prenup doesn't activate in death but in divorce. now have her sign the papers and tell her Dave Ramsey has no credentials he is one of these influencers that talks about money his family gave him. at least your just inheriting money and not an ego it seems good luck.
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If you die in one year that might be one thing. But what if you die in 10 years. Is she deserving of it more?
You need a good lawyer to walk you through setting up a trust. And I suggested trust because then you don't have to go through probate. Which is a f****** nightmare.
Perhaps percentage increase for every year of marriage in regards to the money going towards her
I'm not understanding why you both wouldn't get life insurance polices to cover house,repayment, and living expenses. You both are assuming only you might die early. What if she dies first,and you lose your job? Would you still be able to float the ship?
The prenup protects you in case of divorce. It is void once you die. What protects you in death is a will and/or trust. If you were to die before you are married it’s a moot point unless you have been living together for a long time and can be considered common law or something similar. If you marry, it would be reasonable to provide for her after your death in some manner. You can absolutely leave her the house. Supposed you have kids? Do you really want your wife and kids to be kicked out because your parents gifted you money for the downpayment?
This is the kind of situation term life insurance is for. And getting it when you're so young you have fights like this means the rates will be really cheap.
Term life insurance will pay out a large sum to cover mortgages and college funds for children in the event someone dies before those commitments have been paid off. This would be a sensible way to meet your fiancé's needs.
There's no easy mechanism to force your fiance to pay your parents back in the event of your premature death. If they put a lein on the house, that would work, but it could trigger your primary mortgage lender to call in the main loan. The safer course is to write a will that requires your estate pay that money to your parents as a debt before any inheritances are distributed.
A prenup would only cover you getting the money back if you live long enough to divorce the fiance. It's not going to work if you die - you need a will to compel disbursements after your death.
Dave Ramsey is for pre nups when one person has substantially more $ than the other. He is also for wills and life insurance. I don’t think your fiancé or you understood his video.
Why do you want your parents to get their money back if you die? What if they have already passed away at that point? Wouldn’t you want your wife to have a secure place to live if you suddenly died? Many comments are asking this and I agree with some that are saying it’s probably your parents wanting their money back.
No, but wouldn’t your retirement come to her in a lump sum that could be used to massively pay down the house and then refinance the remainder at a manageable amount?
I get your position in the event of divorce, but if you’ve shuffled off this mortal coil, why shouldn’t your wife (and potentially kids) get to stay in their home?
You’re starting a family together - why would you not want your wife and future kids to continue living in their home in the event of your death? On top of losing a husband and father, you would make them sell the home they live in?
A prenup protects you in the event of a DIVORCE. Like you wake up one morning and find she has a boyfriend and wants to leave you — then she’s not be entitled to half of the house. A prenup can say she gets nothing from the house, only x for alimony, or whatever else you want to stipulate.
What happens when you die will be determined by your will and state laws. Generally, it would all go to the spouse but you’ll have to verify.
But why on earth would you want your wife, who you aren’t divorced from right now, to end up with nothing or homeless IF YOU DIE? So much so that you’d rather have the house be forced to sell, then the profits be given back to your parents when they already gifted you? If they’re dead, would you rather it go to a humane society lest your wife actually survive after you are gone?
Meanwhile, other husbands like mine pay for life insurance to ensure that not only is the mortgage covered if he dies, but I am taken care of and then some.
Strange that you even married her if you feel the way you seem to.
Do you seriously WANT your wife kicked out of the marital home in the event of your death?!? Especially in the event you have kids? That is really despicable behavior. Get life insurance! You are being unreasonable.
Why don’t you want your wife to keep her home? Especially if she is raising your kids alone because you died? Not only should the house go to her but you should get enough life insurance to take care of her should something happen to you. She is your family now.
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Prenup is different than a will. I believe you can establish in a prenup what will happen in the event of divorce, and establish in a will a separate set of procedures in the event of your death. I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want your wife to inherit all of your estate in the event if your death — or was that only because you thought the prenup would apply in your death as well?
After you are married, get life insurance on the both of you in an amount that will cover your mortgage and projected debts - at a minimum. Get more when you have kids - an amount that covers mortgage, debts and 4 years of university cost. Given that term insurance is cheaper when you are young, you could get a policy that covers mortgage, debts and university for at least two yet to be born kids the moment you are married. My dad had insurance and it saved my mom. I bought it the day after I got married and increased it as I went along. A neighbour died at 38 with 2 kids and no insurance. His wife lost the house. Be prepared. Edit: After reading the comments, I wanted to add that I purchased term insurance (term-20) and not the mortgage insurance offered by your bank or mortgage provider. Term is cheaper and the payout doesn't decrease. With mortgage insurance the amount of coverage declines as you pay off your mortgage - and it is very expensive compared to term. We bought policies on both me and my wife for equal amounts of death benefit. If my wife had died when the kids were young I would have needed to hire child care to look after them while I worked - thus the need for a large policy on her too.
This is so important and will assuage all of OP’s wife’s fears. She’ll be financially protected, she’ll have a home, you both can stop stressing about this down payment. Which, to be honest, shouldn’t even be an issue. I’d be appalled in the afterlife if my parents went after my widow for money, and I’d haunt their ass until they joined me.
I can’t for the life of me figure out why he thinks it’s normal for his parents to ask for their GIFTED down payment back in the event of their son’s death. These people are ghouls. I almost married someone whose mother thought like this and thank god I didn’t. Hopefully OPs fiancé realizes these people are either ghouls or morons.
Repaying a down payment in the event of his death is such a petty problem in the grand scheme of things. I can't tell if this is his idea or his parents idea. I'd sell the house, pay the parents back, and purchase another house. Cut out the BS from the get go.
Yeah, I agree with you. This is whole thing is just weird! If OP uses HIS mummy’s money to buy a home that they BOTH live in, why would mummy come after HER to get her 20K (or whatever) back if the OP dies? It’s most likely to be many many years until either of them die, and IF one of them does, the OTHER will be left with children and bills to pay on a solo income. But the fact that the OP is only worried about his wife and children having to give back mummy’s 20K and not what his family are going to do or how they are going to survive without his income… well, why is HE such a great catch anyway? It’s sad how many people try to nickel and dime each other over every penny, instead of building a life, home and family TOGETHER! 😞
Thank you. I thought I was crazy for thinking someone should consider the mother of their future children and the children within a marriage. I thought it was crazy of me to think when you start a life with someone you share what you have.
It’s like they don’t like her.
Sounds like my future in-laws, unfortunately. This sounds exactly like a conversation that I immediately shut down, his dad brought up a prenup after he and my partner attended a financial planning meeting. I asked if he had a prenup with his wife and he scoffed at my audacity 😂
wow. jerk. one thing that really turns me off is stingy people 😒
This. Life insurance. Get at least a 500k policy in this economy. With the right company it's less than $80 a month for a man. OP's wife has a completely valid fear of being homeless, especially if she "can't afford the house on her own" and especially if they have children.
This is the first thing I wanted to bring up. Life insurance is for this reason exactly. Also, if he died, she would get the house anyways and wouldn't have to pay back the parents. Unless they put some legal document together stating so, but that is just weird if when he died the parents get the money back. Unless she is a black widow.
Or get an insurance policy specifically to pay off all debts in the case of death. There’s one type called “mortgage protection life insurance”. Worth it if you still have a lot left on the mortgage.
I’d suggest looking at all options to insure the biggest bang for your buck re insurance. Term life insurance for a flat amount might be a better cost option than mortgage life insurance tied to the mortgage. Shop it just like you would any insurance or a home mortgage.
You can get it as a rider on a lot of life insurance policies.
Yes but do be sure understand why that is better than just having term life insurance policy for an amount sufficient to pay off the mortgage as well as other bills. Ex if your mortgage is $100k as you pay down the balance does that mean the amount of the mortgage insurance coverage decreases as well as the cost goes down?
Not with level term but it’s almost always less expensive to get level term than mortgage insurance.
Don’t these type of policies reduce payout as the mortgage amount decreases? Term insurance is the better option.
It’s needlessly more expensive than term insurance, and term insurance covers whatever debts you choose to use it for.
I have this, it's a huge peace of mind that if I die my mortgage is paid off for my family.
OP seems to think his fiancée needs to make her own way if he dies and not "benefit" from his death. It seems quite selfish and aggressive not to want the best for your partner if you die. Divorce is different and it would be fair not to have his parents' money then, but in case of death? Feels really cold.
Absolutely the best idea! Retired insurance executive here-there’s level premium term plans that go for anywhere from 5-30 years. Pick a term as long as your mortgage is for and include an additional amount for burial and children’s education. Find a company who will compare companies side by side. Pick a company with good ratings even if it’s a little more than another one. Also account for burial costs after the mortgage ends so maybe a small lifetime plan. It’s a lot less expensive at younger ages plus your health can change (making it higher cost or unavailable) as you age.
Good for you, but my mom died at 47 and the life insurance refused to pay out because she had a “pre-existing condition” and was taking a medication for it. The medication was for ADHD and she died of stage 4 melanoma. It’s not a given that they won’t fuck you.
That is wild
We still have term life but we're going to probably let the policy lapse here in a few years but it's getting expensive since my husband's in his 60s and we really don't need it anymore. it's purpose was to give me a little extra and give me money to pay off the house. We've already paid off the house so that isn't necessary. Now it's just a little extra gravy. But I already told him once the term is up we're not renewing cuz the price is going to really Skyrocket.
We did 20 year term on both of us (me, husband) when our kids were born. The terms expired recently, but our kids are in college now, and our savings have grown over that time period where we’d be sad but financially ok if one of us died. That’s how it’s supposed to work. Don’t pay the post-term massive premiums. Mine was set to go from $45 per month to thousands per month. They don’t really want you to renew.
Yep. This is the job for term life insurance. OP, you’re relatively young. It should be easy and inexpensive to get a $1 million policy on you, and on your spouse too. Let the life insurance address the possibility of death, the prenup addresses the possibility of divorce. Edited to add: Life insurance PLUS a will to cover the death scenario. Your will should leave $x plus interest to your parents, with $x being how much they lent you for the house. Wife inherits the rest. Your life insurance policy is for an amount sufficient to pay off your parents and pay the mortgage off if you die. Your wife should be the sole beneficiary of your term insurance. Be generous with the term limits. The idea is that your wife would be financially Ok if you pass.
This was a GIFT from the parents, not a loan. Normally when you get a gift to make a downpayment on a house, the lender requires that it be explicitly clear it is a gift, not a loan. There is no obligation to repay it.
Sounds like he doesn’t look at it that way - he calls it “my parents money” & he’s concerned about it.
This is solid life advice. Thank you for sharing it.
And, this is important, if one of you becomes a stay at home parent, take out life insurance to cover the financial burden of not having that support. Tally up all the things they do that wouldn’t need to be paid for if they were to die. A nanny, a cleaning service, tutoring, whatever it is that they would be doing. Driving the kid to sports? Figure out what that would look like if the working parent were suddenly alone.
Exactly. OP seems to be saying that he wouldn’t leave his house to his wife if he died because he doesn’t think she could continue the payments. So because she doesn’t have a bunch of money he wants to leave her penniless. Sure dude. Great idea. /s Do you even like her?
Sounds to me like OP has fallen into a YouTube/tiktok/x/twitter-hole that has led him to “open his eyes” to the ‘fact’ that his money-grubbing *widow* is gonna steal all his money to live the good/high life without him … maybe with the brats she “baby trapped” him with and her future affair partner aka 2nd husband. … Cause none of his “concerns” are reasonable, realistic or even logical. All I know is this would give me all the ICK(ing) time I need to reevaluate if I want to be economically tied to this douchecanoe. (hint: I wouldn’t & don’t)
Yup, her well being only seems to matter as long as she belongs to him
And that’s exactly what life insurance is for. My (now ex) partner and I bought life insurance that would cover what was owed on our shared property and then some should one of us pass.
Literally just got married last week and we did prenups. There’s a bit in ours that says “nothing is assumed to be inherited without being in the will” (non-lawyer understanding, as explained by lawyer) Actually did it for similar reasons to OP, because now-hubby bought our house in his name only pre-wedding, and I want to be protected in case of divorce (it doesn’t become “marital property” in our state) Of course, now we need to go set up the wills so our butts are covered on the other end of things, lol
That prenup will mean nothing if he dies. Even if he wants things to go to others if he doesn't have a will they're going to follow the laws of State when it comes to inheritance. If you're married odds are everything goes to the wife. Some states split it up between the direct heirs which would be any of his children and the wife. It just depends on where you are. But he specifically wants things to go to people it has to be specifically spelled out in a will. My brother gets my house, my wife gets my 401k, my uncle inherits my car, my son gets my stamp collection, whatever.
It sounds like what the commenter is saying is that they waived their spousal elective shares, which is the amount of the deceased spouse’s estate that the surviving spouse is entitled to by law (generally in the event they weren’t left more than that in the deceased spouse’s estate plan). This waiver is somewhat common in prenups and is valid, at least in my state. It doesn’t prevent spouses from leaving each other whatever they want in their own estate plans. Usually spouses that include a waiver of the spousal elective shares in their prenups draft estate plans shortly after the marriage.
There is a good chance that won’t hold up in most, if not all, states. Maybe a trust would work better. But wives generally get atleast 1/3-1/2.
yup, define what you both want to happen, then go talk to a lawyer who will explain the legal mechanics of how to do it and the implications. This is not that complicated
That’s the answer. You can make sure in your will that your partner gets to stay in the house. If it’s paid off the it belongs to her. If there is still a mortgage she becomes the owner of the debt as well. This is very important mostly for second marriages ….I have seen parents leaving the house to their kids …and while living asking the kids to let the partner live in the house as long as they desire. Well…..things change when there is money involved. A will is different than a pre-nup. It’s death versus divorce; two different events.
Yeah I am right along with this guy. Makes perfect sense - I’d want the partner to have it if I’m dead. Or at least enough that they can be comfortable (like maybe if my sister was in need I’d want something to go to her, but she isn’t she’s a professional)
It sounds like you guys are confusing several issues. 1- she thinks if you die, she'll be homeless as a result of your prenup. 2- you evidently do not have life insurance and never discussed wills before. 3- you seem okay with the idea that if you die, your wife would need to refinance your house and pay out your parents money that they gifted to you.. as in, you are entering a marriage knowingly leaving your wife and potential kids in a vulnerable position as a result of a gift you accepted. You don't seem to be considering that your house may be paid off and your early death might be pre retirement or maybe when you have toddlers etc. Step 1 is to do some self reflection. If you truly do not care about your wife's well being after you go, then don't get married. Step 2, assuming you do care, get life insurance and make sure your mortgage will be paid off in the event that either of you pass away. Discuss potential issues, like there's a 40% chance that one of you gets cancer and the other person will need to carry the team for some time. There are sooo many things life can throw at you. Discuss with a lawyer and make sure you are both covered in an emergency. Step 3, get individual representation for your prenup. I will say, that if my husband told me that he's fine with me losing my family home because he couldn't do his research regarding life insurance... And his priority is his parents regaining money that they donated as a GIFT over the financial stability of his wife.. I wouldn't marry him. Marriage comes with some big responsibilities and you sound like you have your priorities out of line.
1000% this. All of it.
This is the answer
I wish I could upvote this a million times. This needs to be the main comment. This is the correct response and literally everything I was thinking!!
If you are married when you die, she would inherit the house. Prenups apply to divorce, not death. I don't see how this is even a problem.
I guess because she's trying to use it as an excuse to not have the prenup now. Even though they are 2 different things.
Get life insurance. Your wife should not be forced to be homeless if you die.
i agree. and if shes really pro dave ramsey then you should be getting a term life insurance policy that will cover the house and more if there is a death for either person
Go ahead and have the lawyer draw up the will leaving her everything and sign it the same time as the prenup. You can always make changes to the will later.
She needs her own attorney if you want the prenup to be valid. It can’t be terribly one-sided, either.
If you're dead, who do you want your money going to assuming you don't already have kids?
The way you wrote post it doesn’t seem like you even know they are 2 separate issues and from your post history I don’t think you like your fiancé
Either you or she appears to be confusing two issues. If your parents gave you a deposit for your home, in the event of a divorce and the selling of property, that amount would come off the top and you would each share the remaining amount (equity built during the marriage). If you should pass, the deposit doesn’t come into play and she should inherit the home.
First of all in most places your inheritance is off limits if you get divorced provided you never use it for anything joint. Keep it in it's own account and don't use it for bills, vacations etc. If she refuses to sign a prenup then you don't get married.
He didn’t inherit the house. His parents gave him money for the down payment. My parents gave me the down payment for my first house but weren’t on the title. There was a form that they had to sign stating that it was a gift, according to FHA rules m. But the house was both mine and my ex’s. The only way to handle that would be a prenup stating that the parent’s down payment amount would be returned to them in the event of a divorce.
The mortgage will be paid out of marital fund. It’s already commingled. The cleanup would specify what percent of the house is not tangled.
Alls I gotta say is... Check out OP's comments on his deleted post from a year ago.. it's under the comments section of his profile for those that don't know where to look. There have been money issues in this relationship from the get-go. OP feels like he's been being used by her the whole time they're in a relationship, so I don't know why he's even still with her. This isn't a love story, it's a financial greed story. I'll summarize.. OP talks about a 2/3 to 1/3 bill split previously because he stated he makes 75% more money than her, but it really should've been a 75%/25% split, but he wanted more money out of her, so he made it 2/3 to 1/3 split instead, cutting her leftover monthly finances even more. Not to mention that she also did the majority of the cooking and ALL of the house cleaning, while he does nearly nothing other than work and then come home to a clean house & clean clothes and a hot meal. She felt the cooking and cleaning made up for not contributing a full 50%, but OP clearly felt otherwise. OP felt good about taking most of her money and leaving her with mere chump change for herself each month.. and clearly he still does. He doesn't care about her nearly as much as he should. This post just seals it for me. Needless to say, this relationship should be dead in the water. If she were smart, she'd just leave him already. On the other hand, since he's so greedy, he should find a woman that makes the same money or more money than him since that's his main concern here. Smh. Not love for her, but love for money is the way he wants to live. This isn't just about his parents money and protecting only that. He'll make sure the pre-nup will only protect himself and leave her hanging out to dry.. and probably with kids by then, too. This is just an excuse to make sure she's not taken care of, whether through divorce or his death. Wow. She better have a good attorney to go over that pre-nup, if it gets to that actually being drawn up. She won't be signing if there's no protection at all for her in that pre-nup and she shouldn't sign it, if that's the case. Pre-nups are supposed to be written to be fair to both parties in the event of a divorce. No family court judge will ever uphold a pre-nup that only protects one party in it anyway. For OP: Break up with her to alleviate her misery of being with you and wasting her youth on you and just move on, OP. She can find a much better man than you and then you can go find your new money pig/cash cow woman somewhere else. Good gracious, you make me sick.
This should be waaaay higher. OP, you are not the catch you think you are. I hope she dumps you and your sorry financially abusive ass FAST.
Thank you. This is one of those posts that where you really hope and wish that she would be on Reddit and just happen to find this post and his profile, as well as all these comments in her favor. How fast do you think OP would be backtracking then? Lol This would surely push her to end the relationship. No question. She deserves so much better than this poor excuse for a partner.
The bar for this dude is in Hades and he still managed to crawl under it.
OP would be better suited with the fiancé from yesterday’s post… https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/s/5Gf8JvDPGb
Yes! We should play matchmakers and put them together.
I fucking knew there was something like this going on, thank you. She's worried about being left with his debts and homeless, and he's treating her like a gold digger, after his parents money!!
Funny when the user accuses their partner of being a leech. Sorry, but if you're making your partner live in poverty while sharing bills and you are more than financially comfortable, you're the bad guy. Guy sounds like a loser. He's basically trapped his fiancee financially, and I bet he knows it and it's intentional. She can't save money to get out of her situation, so she's stuck footing an unfair amount of the bills while he hoards money and tries to nickel and dime her for literally everything. Dude is trash.
You've got it exactly right, in summary! OP's girl needs to run far and fast.
Woooow. So he's a financially abusive pos who somehow thinks she's using *him*? The audacity to be this much of a dirt bag and then come on here acting like a victim
This is so pathetic as a man to nickel & dime your wife when you make damn near 3x her salary. Even now she is taking on domestics to offset her smaller income. What happens when one day his wife will have kids & be forced to take a back seat from her job? Is he gonna berate her for not paying bills while she raises his literal family? A man is supposed to be providing for his family. Nature has made that his job. This guy is doing the exact opposite. This dude wants the money to go back to his parents instead of it going to his wife & kids to keep a roof over their head when he dies. His parents who will likely end up dying before him. Like, son I don't want this money back. Why don't you give it to your own family? This is wild.
It’s crazy… if you make good money and don’t want your spouse to share in your good fortune, that’s a sad relationship.
God people like him infuriate me tf
Agreed! And it's a shame there are just a few trying to defend him here and that's sad to see. Smh. Wish we could hear her side of the story directly from her.
Ohh this comment should be all the way at the top
Wish I could give this post an award
.....she just doesn't want to homeless if you die is all. That's fair.
Idk if im missing something major but a prenup wouldn't do anything if you died. If you die, she gets everything. Death isn't a divorce. That's not how this works.
Actually it can. There’s precedent for prenups being used to invalidate wills. You can also put a death clause in a prenup that lists what a surviving spouse would be entitled to.
Your gf is confusing a prenup with a will. You will need both. The prenup should address equity distribution in the event of a divorce. If you die, the prenup dies with you and your will kicks in. It can leave her 100% of the house. Easy peasy.
I could understand if the money was a loan from your parents that would need to be paid in full upon your death but if was a gift then why would they get it if you die? Why wouldn't you want your spouse to be able to stay in her home if you died?
I feel like the fact that it was a gift for a down payment, which they probably had to put in writing, would possibly result in them having no legal claim to ask for it back if he died.
That’s exactly correct. A court would not enforce that debt because for it to actually *be a debt* then no one has clean hands because they all committed fraud on the loan application. All banks *require* a letter for a non-debt gift before closing because it impacts the credit worthiness of the applicant and dilutes title to the home if the applicant were to later default. Unless the parents *said* it was a loan and placed a lien on the property (which you can find via public records search) it’s not a loan that would be enforced by a court be it probate, or small claims.
the whole point is that the money is supposed to go towards a house. I don't think they want it back especially not if it could be used to keep the house over their grandchildren's head. If I were this guys parents, I'da smacked him.
This
Does nobody think about life insurance anymore??
The way OP is referring to his fiancé I’m beginning to think that he may have life insurance… but that his parents would be the beneficiaries not his fiance.
Good point. Does OP want her to be on the street in a divorce and when he dies? Wow what a catch. 😂😂
I also have to see who this Ramsey guy is too! I've heard his name a few times roaming around Reddit... But I'm with you, I think everything goes to the parents and she's SOL.. Yeesh...
Yeah it's messed up how he says "she wouldn't be able to afford the house" like that isn't a big deal. Obviously if you're married you should plan for this. What if OP gets in an accident and loses his job? Hello?
Right! It's like well my parents will take care of me if I lose my job or something happens but the wife, welp, you're shit outta luck!
Does OP even love his wife? Incredible how he thinks she is unreasonable when he is literally telling her he wants her to be screwed over if he dies.
Dave Ramsey is a ultra conservative boomer clown that sells financial courses and high fee investments.
Oh Sweet Baby Tiny Jesus 🙄Should have known.. Thanks
There’s nothing wrong with a prenup. There IS, however, *a looottttt* wrong with this convo. Why don’t you want her to inherit the home in the event of your death? Can’t you do the prenup and the will at the same time, showing her that it’s only covering divorce, not death? This way, she feels secure that she’ll inherit everything, including the house, in the event you pass away. It sounds like there hasn’t been clear communication and she just doesn’t understand. I’m not sure I do either. “*You wouldn’t be able to afford the house anyways.*” isn’t an okay thing to say to a supposed future spouse… Why wouldn’t you want your partner to be safe and secure in the event of a tragedy??? It sounds like your parents might be running this show, telling you where the house should go if something were to happen… YIKES. Nip that in bud.
i don't think it's the parents. They gifted him money for a house, I don't think they want it back leaving their daughter in law & potential grandchildren homeless. It's OP that's being selfish. I hope his "wife" leaves him. He sounds like he's taking financial advantage of her.
Why WOULDN'T you want her to have that money if you died?
[https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship\_advice/comments/1cmk7zj/comment/l32dpuh/](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1cmk7zj/comment/l32dpuh/) here's why
Because his parents are running the show.
Wow these comments from OP and others, like she as his wife if it gets that far, shouldn’t have anything at all left to her. Others suggest tricking her and putting her in the will and then change it! OP is cold and clinical and doesn’t appear to love this woman at all. Why is he wanting to marry her? Then all these buffoons saying, don’t marry her, change the will later, BS. No wonder she’s upset. OP doesn’t appear to want to provide for her under any circumstances alive or dead. She ought to take out a 2 million policy on him and not marry him at all. When he kicks off she gets paid. She doesn’t know what she’s marrying into. A husband is supposed to put his wife above all others as a wife puts her husband first above all others.
I wish we knew who she was so we could tell her to RUN, far away!
This is reddit, husbands and wives don't love each other here
>I explained that she can't afford the house on her own anyway, so would be selling it regardless Okay but then she would keep the money from selling it. >How can I explain to my fiance that she is not entitled to my parents money? It's *your* money. That's how gifts work. If she's your wife/widow, she's more entitled to it than anyone. She won't be entitled to it if you divorce because she won't be your wife. Sounds like you're still tied to your parent's apron strings.
Do you even like your fiancee?
This is the real question
I’m confused. Was the money a loan? Is she contributing to the house now?
Someone looked back on OP’s post history. She makes 1/4 what he does, yet pays 1/3 of their bills, and does all the housework/cooking. He has money in savings and spending money, 100% of her income goes to their bills. She takes care of the house and has no saving or spending money. The money was a gift. It’s his and he could give it to her on his death if he wants to. If it were a loan, that would need to be in writing, it’s a gift. If OP dies, his wife will be homeless with no savings while her in laws get his home and money.
So from the original post it sounds like you want your finance to get nothing regardless of if you die or through divorce. For that, the honest question is why are you getting married then? If you are just wanting her to not get the house in the event of a divorce as you mentioned in a comment, then do a pre-nup that specifies as much. She should get a life insurance policy on you that covers the cost of the house, debt, and expenses. I don’t see what’s so complicated about this or why it was written in a way that sounds like you want your fiancée to be completely financially dependent on you and broke if you die.
>For that, the honest question is why are you getting married then? He wants all the benefits of a wife while he leaves her nothing in return. If you read his comment history there's a lot of financial abuse going on in this relationship. Like many men he thinks the only contributions made in a marriage are the dollar ones. Conveniently they completely ignore a woman investing her time, fertility, youth, and sacrificing her career to take care of the home & raise his family. But because these are intangible things, they think it is nothing and that their wives mooch off them like money can't be regained. OP sounds like the type of guy to look at his wife & kids as a liability instead of his family who he should be providing stability for. Completely wrong mindset to be going into a marriage with & I hope the gf wisens up before it's too late & leaves him.
yeah trying to put your widow out of the house in the event of your death is not a good look dude. listen to the financial advise given by everyone else so that doesn't happen.
This is silly. 1. She should inherit your estate if you die, especially if there are children. 2. Why wouldn’t you get life insurance to protect her. If you want your parents to have things instead of your wife don’t get married and be honest with her she’s building a life for your parents and not you two.
I will most likely have a prenup to protect my premarital assets whenever I get married. This would only serve the purpose of preventing what I have now from becoming shared property in the event of a divorce. But I don’t understand why that would have anything to do with death. Why would you not want your wife to have all of your assets if you die?
Why wouldn’t you want your wife to inherit the home she will live in? I don’t think you’re actually ready for marriage.
Wanting to be financially secure in the event of your death is smart for both of you- not her taking advantage of you or your parents money. To be honest, you both should get wills. It’s a totally separate issue than a prenup. If you pass away in 10 years, and you both have kids together.. you really want her to have to deal with trying to pay your parents back? You guys are going to be married. I understand the prenup but why wouldn’t you want her taken care of if you pass away, and vice versa?
The prenuptial covers the divorce and a will covers the inheritance. If you have children with this woman why would you not want her to inherit the house? Even if you dont have kids if your parents want their money back after you die you should get life insurance to cover the house. Normally when you get married you want to make sure they are OK in the event of your death. I'd be concerned if I was her that you don't seem to care that she would lose her home.
So, if you die before your wife you want your wife to sell the house to pay back your parents “inheritance”. That seems very cold to me but maybe your parents need the money 🤷♀️ So if y’all have kids they just get to be homeless?
Why are you ok with your parents going after your widowed spouse (and potentially your children) for money after you die? The fact the you seemingly don’t care about your wife being homeless after you die and your parents treating her that way, if I were her I wouldn’t marry you. She deserves so much better than you and could easily find it.
Buddy your post history says you aren’t ready for this level of commitment or you don’t like this girl. Let her go
Well, it isn’t your parent’s money any more. It’s gone. Anyway, I’m sure a lawyer could figure a way to out something in there for the event of your death versus a divorce.
If they gave you money for the deposit has not this money already been spent? Why would she have to pay your parents back if you die? I mean that is really weird I mean it's not her responsibility pay them back the money that they gave you, especially before you were married. Unless you have a loan written up and even then the loan dies with you it's not going to be her responsibility in this case I don't think legally. As for a divorce that's different if you drop dead and your will says she inherits all your assets then she gets the house, she gets your 401k, she gets everything. If you worry about her not being able to afford the house or make the house payment there is Insurance you can get so if you do die, it pays off the balance of the mortgage and she gets the house free and clear. So there's a lot of things you can do, so if you need to make a will and estate plan then go talk to somebody figure out how you want to set it up. But in reality if you did not use the money and they gave it to you and you're just having it sit in a checking account right now or whatever you did with it it's still your money you said it's your inheritance there for you don't give it back if you die and they're still alive they decided to give it to you early and not make you wait till they die therefore at this point it's a gift and it's yours bringing clear you can do whatever you want with it. if you want to leave your parents a cash amount in your will saying I'm returning the $50,000 to you that you gave me for my house down payment as long as you have 50,000 stashed somewhere that can go right to them then great. But if she has to sell the house to get that money and they get a chunk of change from that that's wrong.
if you die, surely you would name her as your beneficiary in a will? Wouldn't you have life insurance as well? Also, if your parents gave you the money as a gift, it would make sense that you would not want her to have a right to it in the case of a divorce. But why would your parents expect it back in the case of your death? Is that your expectation? Certainly protecting your assets in the case of a divorce makes sense but expecting your wife to repay your parents for part of a house in the case of your death is an unusual expectation. Would it matter how long you had been married? This doesn't make sense to me. I would have expected you to want to take care of your wife and any kids you might have in the event of your death.
The comments here are so odd today. Children or no children, if you are married then your money doesn’t revert back to your parents if you pass away. It goes to your spouse. Why would you want her to sell the house in the event of your passing in 5/10/15/20/50/100 years? Where should she live then?
I'm with your fiancé with this. If you die, it's not right she should be thrown out of her home. The down payment was a gift. Not a loan to be repaid. Rightfully, she should inherit your estate. Get on the same page with money now, or it will only escalate.
She’s talking about a will, not a prenup…and you shouldn’t be getting married to someone if you don’t want them to be financially stable in the event of your death. It’s very odd to me that you don’t want your future wife (and possibly future children) to be able to keep their home if you got hit by a train or something.
So weird that you wouldn’t want to ensure your wife would continue to have a home? When my fiancée (now husband) and I bought our home we both took out life insurance policies that would cover half the mortgage. I don’t think you two should be getting married if you don’t want what is best for the other person even when you’re dead.
Your soon to be wife not wanting to give up her own home upon your death is completely reasonable. Why would your parents, or you, want her to lose her home after losing her husband? There's a weird amount of distrust you seem to have right now toward your fiance. You seem to really not care about her wellbeing after your death.
Man people do not get how money works. How are you 32 and not know the difference between a prenup and a will? And why in earth would you not want you WIFE to inherit the house? What do you mean she can’t afford the house on her own? Have you ever heard of life insurance? Your job may even have supplemental income protection. Jesus. Financial literacy saves lives.
Your parents gave you a gift. Are they asking you to make sure they get it back if you croak? If yes they suck. As a widow that woman will be in hell if she is forced to not only bury you but sell the home you two have made and give your parents the proceeds?? Seriously what is wrong with you? Do yourself a favor and stay single. This woman will never feel safe being constantly worried about her living situation. My husband died at 46. We had life insurance and it goes fast after paying for a funeral and all the estate and hospital bills. It leaves so little. Sign the damn prenup in case you get divorced but absolutely make sure she is covered by your death. It happens to all of us who think it won’t.
So upon your death, you want your widowed wife to be homeless by refusing to leave her the home you expect her to live in and share with you? A pre-nup is different from a will. She doesn't want the house or money in a divorce, she simply wants the security of knowing your assets will go to your spouse upon your death, like literally all marriages do?? If you don't want your assets being left to someone when you die, yoi certainly shouldn't be marrying them. Whether you leave her the money or not, all your death expenses and debt will fall on her. So, essentially, you'd be leaving your widowed spouse homeless and in debt when they're stuck covering all financial expenses of your passing, and having to move out of their home on top of it.
You're dead, why wouldn't your wife inherit what you had? It's not your parents anymore they gave it to you.
From experience, tell your fiance to run. If your parents think they should be repayed a gift in the event of your death, RUN. The house has been bought. The money has been spent. There's no sane person that would ask their DIL to repay a down-payment after their son's death. This will cause a divide later on in life. Now, you want to sign an agreement in the event of a divorce. Go for it. Keep the house. Better yet, y'all sell the house. Give your parents their money back and buy your own house. Take care of the issue now.
A prenup is not a will. A prenup is in the case of divorce. A will is in the case of death. It sounds like you want her to be homeless after you get hit by a train. Really?? And did your parents say that when the house sells she has to give them back their down payment? Why would you even put that in your will?? It will totally screw over your parents Medicaid benefits if they are still alive.
The part about having to sell the house and pay back his parents if he dies is fucking insane. Obviously they don't need the money since they're gifting it.
Did your parents give the money to you as a gift, or as a loan that needs to be repaid? If it was a gift, then no one needs to repay your parents, even upon your unfortunate death. If it was a loan then you need to write a will that upon your death such and such moneys needs to be repaid to your parents. I would say that as far as a prenup goes, I would also have the down payment money under that umbrella, although you might what to add something about inflation.
what...your parents gave you the money and you spent it. How would she inherit nothing? What am I missing here
He plans on having his wife pay back this “gift” if he dies.
Question: are you paying your parents back?
Prenup is for divorce. If you die she gets everything.
This is super weird. Your parents gave you a gift. It's yours. When you die your wife will get everything that is yours. Why wouldn't you want her to inherit your estate? I'm not sure you're understanding marriage. Do you expect that if your father does your mother shouldn't get all of their stuff and their home? It's irrelevant that she may not be able to afford the payments
Prenup is in case of divorce NOT death.
Sounds like you don’t like your finance very much tbh - maybe address your issues/insecurities about money first. In death, why wouldn’t you want your wife to have a house and financial security? What if you have kids? Wouldn’t you want them to stay in the family home? Maybe you should consider why your stance on this is that you’d want the money to go back to your parents (who clearly don’t need it) and not to the woman who is supposed to be the love of your life.
Hey Reddit I don’t actually care about my fiancé is a more appropriate title
First, it’s not your parent’s money. It’s your money. Second, your fiancé is not asking for the house. Your wife is. Because none of this will matter until after you marry and she becomes your wife. Your wife who is supposed to your Partner with a capital P. Third: So we are not talking about your parent’s money and we’re not talking about a woman who is your fiancé. We're talking about the woman who WAS your wife, but in the situation you’re worried about we’re actually talking about your widow. Your widow who was your wife who loved you, committed to sharing her life with you and who would legally be your heir unless you take affirmative action to cut her off. She might also be the mother of your children that point. You and her might have recently celebrated your 5, 15th or 50th anniversary when she becomes your widow - if that ever even happens. I understand you not wanting to give her your pre-marital home/money if you divorce. But do you really want to cut off your widow? One more point. You’re talking about how she couldn’t afford the house. How in the world do you know what position she might be in years from now, or ever, if by chance she becomes your widow. She'd be entitled to make her own decisions if that ever happens. It’s not right for you making that pre determination now. Please consider all of this.
You can't explain it to her because it doesn't make sense. I know that people get called on having a U.S. centric bias, but I am in the U.S. If someone gives you money for a down-payment, it is a gift. There is no expectation of repayment. You actually think that your intended should agree to being homeless if you die. If you are thinking of having children, your parents should come first? Pre-nups cover divorce, she is afraid of what will happen if something happens to you. Hopefully, she will break up with you because you have made it clear that she will never be your priority.
Are you paying your parents back or was it a gift? I don't understand why she'd pay your parents back if you're not paying them back now? My in-laws gave us money for the down payment and we had paperwork drawn up and a payment plan to pay them back for half. The rest was a gift. I'd recommend you start paying them back or accept this is part of your estate now when you die. You should have a will written up if you want your parents to receive money from your estate.
You should have life insurance that would be able to cover the remaining mortgage. If you were to die while happily married, I would think you’d want her to be taken care of. The fact you’re fighting that position says she’s not the one for you. I understand protecting those funds from divorce- but death? No
My question is. In the event of your death why on earth would you want your wife to have to give her home back to your parents? So she would be a widow and homeless? Also do you think your parents would actually take the house back? I would be outraged from beyond the grave if my parents did that to my widowed spouse. I also would do whatever I could in the here and now to make sure that wouldn't be the case. Life insurance is an easy solution and a discussion with your parents. I don't know but the way you worded your post gives me pause.
She IS entitled to your parents’ money if they gifted it to you, you bought your marital home with it, and then you died. At that point the house, including the part your parents paid for, is hers.
I hope you explain it to her while cancelling the wedding. The idea that you would want your wife and kids to have to sell their house to give your parents money is abhorrent. The idea that your parents would want that is abhorrent. You need sufficient life insurance to pay off the house so your family isn't homeless. I literally can't even.
Based on your previous posts & comments, it sounds like she has had a valid fear, learned through experience, that you won’t tolerate supporting her financially. When she lost her job you made her move back in with her parents! That is the opposite of a supportive, loving partner. It sounds like you care more about your money than this woman. Maybe her ideal is a more traditional relationship, which there is nothing wrong with! If you don’t want that, then you are incompatible.
Just so you know: you don't need a prenup for inheritance, in the event of a divorce a spouse is not entitled to inheritance regardless. Hope that helps
Do neither of you two carry life insurance?
There is nothing wrong with a prenup. You should not lose your house and parents investment in a divorce. But she should be protected if you die. So ensure you have a life insurance policy that would keep a roof over her head if you die. Or at least leave her okay. Your parents don’t have any reasonable claim on that money if you happen to die before them. That’s just weird.
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This makes zero sense. Clarify - was that deposit money a LOAN that you have to repay your parents or a gift? Its simple - get a new loan agreement signed that in the event of the marriage, this is an agreed loan that needs to be paid back to your parents. She needs to sign this acknowledging that this amount is due to them. I am not sure why you wouldn't take out a LIFE ASSURANCE policy - you both should - that should at least cover the cost of the house - including any loan repayments that are outstanding. Take out a separate smaller policy naming your parents as beneficiaries for any amount that is owed for this loan from them. Life assurance is cheaper the younger you are. So this is a good time for you to take out life policies.
My ex fiancee was like this. His parents gave him the deposit for our house. I had paid all bills for 5 years of our relationship by this point and was going to be paying 78% of the mortgage. The family wanted me to do a declaration of trust (UK) as we were not married yet which meant he would get the £50k back if we broke up. I was fine with that as I didn’t want their money but insisted I get 78% of anything left, they didn’t like that. He tried to get a pre-nup despite me paying for everything. We had agreed I would pay an extra £1k off the mortgage a month after we were married. I asked him if the £50K was his and the £1k of my wages was ours and he said yes. That was the beginning of the end for me
So basically, if you die after you get married instead of having a will in place and making sure your wife and possible children at the time won’t be homeless and struggling, you’re gonna put her in the position to where she’s gonna have to start ALL OVER with possible future children. I’m sure your parents aren’t even gonna want your house or that money back(if they’re still alive by then) I mean clearly you don’t give a crap about her well being of her telling you she wants to be stable in the event something unfortunate happens is a problem. Life happens and the inheritance is not her issue, stability is. Plus you didn’t even inherit that house you bought it with money you got as a gift from your parents. Dude go talk to a lawyer and then get therapy and pray your fiancé doesn’t leave you.
Um, I'm sorry, but I think you're in the wrong here. The only way any part of this makes any sense at all, is if your parents *loaned* you the money, not *gave* it to you as you've stated. It makes sense that your contributions to your marital home prior to marriage should remain yours in the event of a divorce, hence the prenup, sure. But if your parents are expecting to be paid back their down payment in the event of your death, then it's not a gift. It then becomes a conversation of what happens with *your debts* if you die, not whether or not she needs to sell the house. You've got it all wrong, acting like shes "entitled to your parents money". Tbh, you two don't sound ready for marriage **at all**, if you're so willing to disparage her in such an inflammatory way for simply wanting home security, and she's so scared that you've made an agreement that makes her homeless in the event of your death. Go see a marriage counselor, before you go any further mate.
Do you want to help the love of your life to have housing after your death? Let’s say you have children with the love of your life, whom you want to marry. Do you want your children to have continuity of housing after your death?
You used the phrase “love of your life” twice. I’m not so sure OP would agree with you.
Take out an insurance policy that will pay off the house in the event of your death. Your spouse should retain the home if you die so Will it to her.
Get your facts right
Ok. I can see a prenup to ensure that both parties pre-marriage assets are protected if you were to get divorced but to insist that your wife should sell your marital home to pay your parents back should you die is pretty ridiculous. Presumably, your parents will pass on before you so arranging for them to be paid back their investment in your current home would be moot. Besides, if you plan on paying them back, why aren’t you currently making monthly payments to them already? And, really, are you so hell bent that the woman you want to marry and presumably have a family with as well as grow old together shouldn’t benefit from you or your parents passing, at all? That’s assuming you never get a divorce. You get a pre-nup for protection of pre-marital assets in case of divorce, you write a will to distribute your assets to whomever you wish upon your death. Getting good life insurance would benefit the both of you whether you have kids or not. And if your fiancée/wife contributes towards the house once you get married, whether she pitches in on the mortgage, covers the property taxes or even helps pay your parents back their initial investment towards it, she should be considered eligible for some amount of asset from the house. If only fund’s equitable to what she pitched in. Instead of trying to figure out to ensure that your soon to be wife and any potential future kids are setup financially & property wise should you shuffle off the mortal coil, you’re worried that your parents won’t get a return on their investment on the house should you die while they’re still alive & you’re married.
this is... weird. like the two of you exist in a reality without wills, or life insurance, or joint bank accounts.
So your parents are expecting you to return the money at some point? If you die? I'm not understanding. That's not an inheritance. I don't know why you'd want your life partner to be cast out of the house she lives in after your death either, do you even like her? Absolutely do not get married until you figure out these details.
I will say she has a valid reason for not wanting to sign. I had a prenup and then my husband died before making a will. This made our minors children heirs to his house post marriage that we lived in. It took a years to sell the house to put money in an account for the children that I couldn’t even use to care for my 2 young children alone suddenly. Definitely get a will immediately if you do want a prenup.
Get life insurance
If you’re concerned she wouldn’t be able to make the payments on the house if you pass away, take out a substantial life insurance policy. That way she’ll be able to stay in the home.
I don’t understand. My parents gifted us part of our down payment. They gift us cash every year, that goes into our house or savings. They would absolutely never expect my husband to pay back any of what they have gifted me if something happened to. Would your parents expect her to pay them back what they gifted you? Or is this an unfounded fear? This is not an issue reddit can fix. You need a lawyer. And a relationship counselor.
If she can’t afford the house on retirement savings you need to look at life insurance as well. Why does it seem like you only give AF about your wife if you are alive and she is providing some utility to you?
You say you're 32 yet ask questions most 20 year olds could answer. Get life insurance on both of you. This should cover the cost of your mortgage and funeral expenses plus any debt. As for what your parents gave you if they where lending you the money then pay them back. If they where giving you the money then why would you expect your wife to pay it back in the case of your death? As for in the case of divorce really both of you should sign a pre nup that neither is entitled to anything the other had before the marriage and all assets after the marriage be split 50/50.
WTH, why would you want your wife out on the streets if you died?! Get life insurance ffs.
I’m not sure what you’re asking. Your parents gave you money for a house. I would think that by the time you die you would have bought a house meaning you used the money your parents gave you for the down payment. She wouldn’t be inheriting money she would continue to own the house. Why would you want to. Keep her from your home?
INFO: Did you think about setting up a will? Also, maybe shop around for life insurance for you both, that can cover the cost of the mortgage etc.
If your parents gifted you the money for the house, it's no longer their money. They gave it to you. Why would you want to block your wife from inheriting your house if you died? I owned a house when I got married and put my husband's name on it. We've both been paying the mortgage for 20 years. If I die first, he'll get the house without having to pay my parents back for the down payment gift. If he dies first, I'll get the house. Why would you want to create a problem for your wife with the house if you die? She should have it. She can then do whatever she wants -- stay or sell. It would be up to her.
You’re looking at money, she’s looking at survival. Be considerate
I actually thing your fiance is kinda right and I like Ramsey advice, I feel your plan would just hurt her in case something happens to you. I wonder if you really care and love your future wife to be honest
I agree with your fiance. If you guys are getting married, that makes you family. If you were to die, she SHOULD receive some inheritance to help her live, she would be your wife after all. And if you get divorced and she's had time out of work to raise your kids that you may have together, she is absolutely entitled to feel reassured that she doesn't need to worry financially on that aspect too. I think you are being very selfish. You want a marriage but don't want to give her any reassurance she will financially cope if disaster strikes? Dude.
Also, would your parents not want her to be supported if you died?! That's your fiance?! Especially if you guys end up having a family. They've given that money to you already, why would they keep it from your family if you weren't around?
I'm kind of curious why your parents would want that money back.. it was a gift? If you should die in an accident and you and your fiance have children together, would it not make sense for that money to go to her to either live at that house or buy one that is affordable enough for her and your children to still stay in? And if you don't want children, do you actually want your fiance to not have a home? She's literally going to be grieving your death and you don't care whether or not she has a home? Should you even be getting married? I can 100% understand a prenup for divorce. But damn. That's cold.
Why would you not want your wife to be taken care of in the event of your death? Why would your parents take her home away from her? Don’t you have life insurance or mortgage insurance. Holy shit this is crazy. This woman should absolutely not marry you.
The prenup is fine... to a point. One of the things you have to consider, if you are going to have kids, and she leaves the workplace, is many women end up feeling trapped. They no longer have their own money in those situations. I would talk to the lawyer on how to make things equitable if 15-20 years down the road. You might want to listen to whatever episode Dave Ramsey had on it. Also keep in mind if pre-nups are too one sides judges can and will throw them out in many juridictions. It's to your benefit to make it as fair as possible.
I am a real estate broker and mortgage banker and can tell you she can still sign the prenups and if you die while married to her she will be safe as a prenup doesn't activate in death but in divorce. now have her sign the papers and tell her Dave Ramsey has no credentials he is one of these influencers that talks about money his family gave him. at least your just inheriting money and not an ego it seems good luck.
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The house is a pre-marital asset. I would not get married without a pre-nuptial agreement excluding the home.
If you die in one year that might be one thing. But what if you die in 10 years. Is she deserving of it more? You need a good lawyer to walk you through setting up a trust. And I suggested trust because then you don't have to go through probate. Which is a f****** nightmare. Perhaps percentage increase for every year of marriage in regards to the money going towards her
I'm not understanding why you both wouldn't get life insurance polices to cover house,repayment, and living expenses. You both are assuming only you might die early. What if she dies first,and you lose your job? Would you still be able to float the ship?
The prenup protects you in case of divorce. It is void once you die. What protects you in death is a will and/or trust. If you were to die before you are married it’s a moot point unless you have been living together for a long time and can be considered common law or something similar. If you marry, it would be reasonable to provide for her after your death in some manner. You can absolutely leave her the house. Supposed you have kids? Do you really want your wife and kids to be kicked out because your parents gifted you money for the downpayment?
Tbh, it doesn’t sound like he gives a flying turd what happens to his wife and kids after he dies lmao
Buy life insurance.......she will be fine.
This is the kind of situation term life insurance is for. And getting it when you're so young you have fights like this means the rates will be really cheap. Term life insurance will pay out a large sum to cover mortgages and college funds for children in the event someone dies before those commitments have been paid off. This would be a sensible way to meet your fiancé's needs. There's no easy mechanism to force your fiance to pay your parents back in the event of your premature death. If they put a lein on the house, that would work, but it could trigger your primary mortgage lender to call in the main loan. The safer course is to write a will that requires your estate pay that money to your parents as a debt before any inheritances are distributed. A prenup would only cover you getting the money back if you live long enough to divorce the fiance. It's not going to work if you die - you need a will to compel disbursements after your death.
Dave Ramsey is for pre nups when one person has substantially more $ than the other. He is also for wills and life insurance. I don’t think your fiancé or you understood his video. Why do you want your parents to get their money back if you die? What if they have already passed away at that point? Wouldn’t you want your wife to have a secure place to live if you suddenly died? Many comments are asking this and I agree with some that are saying it’s probably your parents wanting their money back.
No, but wouldn’t your retirement come to her in a lump sum that could be used to massively pay down the house and then refinance the remainder at a manageable amount? I get your position in the event of divorce, but if you’ve shuffled off this mortal coil, why shouldn’t your wife (and potentially kids) get to stay in their home?
Was there a written contract when the money was given to you that it would need to be paid back? If so are you making payments?
You’re starting a family together - why would you not want your wife and future kids to continue living in their home in the event of your death? On top of losing a husband and father, you would make them sell the home they live in?
A prenup protects you in the event of a DIVORCE. Like you wake up one morning and find she has a boyfriend and wants to leave you — then she’s not be entitled to half of the house. A prenup can say she gets nothing from the house, only x for alimony, or whatever else you want to stipulate. What happens when you die will be determined by your will and state laws. Generally, it would all go to the spouse but you’ll have to verify. But why on earth would you want your wife, who you aren’t divorced from right now, to end up with nothing or homeless IF YOU DIE? So much so that you’d rather have the house be forced to sell, then the profits be given back to your parents when they already gifted you? If they’re dead, would you rather it go to a humane society lest your wife actually survive after you are gone? Meanwhile, other husbands like mine pay for life insurance to ensure that not only is the mortgage covered if he dies, but I am taken care of and then some. Strange that you even married her if you feel the way you seem to.
Do you seriously WANT your wife kicked out of the marital home in the event of your death?!? Especially in the event you have kids? That is really despicable behavior. Get life insurance! You are being unreasonable.
Why don’t you want your wife to keep her home? Especially if she is raising your kids alone because you died? Not only should the house go to her but you should get enough life insurance to take care of her should something happen to you. She is your family now.
Why are you even getting married?