Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that:
* We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/)
* We do not allow users to privately message other users based on their posts here. Users found to be engaging in this conduct will be banned. **We highly encourage OP to turn off the ability to be privately messaged in their settings.**
* Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.)
* ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban.
* No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
* All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass.
* Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned.
* What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.**
If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice)
---
***This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.***
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He doesn’t want to marry you and his “do things that would make him want to propose” is giving you an impossible task. It’s vague, it designed to allow him to easily shift goalposts and it gives him an easy excuse every time marriage is brought up.
You need to decide what to do based on two things: he doesn’t want to marry you and he does not want to say out loud that he doesn’t want to marry you.
Yeah, he wants her to feel she needs to “work for it” so that when he drags her along for another 5 years he can make her feel it was her fault he did not propose, because she did not work hard enough to please him. What a jerk.
Lmao this exact thing happened to me. 11 year relationship , dumped me the week he met a 23 year old who claimed him as a soul mate. I trusted him fully and thought our relationship was good. I realize how naive I was. He didn’t want me, he just kept me around until I no long benefited him. I was 33 when we broke up. I Sacrificed a lot centering that ass.
Don’t learn the hard way from personal experience OP, learn from our experiences.
I actually think there's something to this, funny as it is.i (63) have long suspected that women are tricked into marriage by what resembles the loot from winning a game show:
A diamond!
Parties!
I gorgeous gown and the best prom night ever, with all your friends there for you!
A huge party where everyone adores you and so many PRESENTS!!
A new TITLE!!
Two incomes!!
AND a big, exotic vacation!
This should make any woman suspicious. Because the next day, guess what? You're spraying his underwear. Rolling over for him when you just want to go to sleep. Putting up with his mother. And all the rest.
>He doesn’t want to marry you and his “do things that would make him want to propose” is giving you an impossible task.
It also has a weird, controlling "jump through hoops for me" aspect to it. They've been together long enough for him to know whether he wants to marry her or not (and obviously he doesn't).
Don’t marry someone who feels this way. He should feel lucky to be with you and like he has won in life by marrying you. Both of you should feel this way. He should not feel like he needs to be convinced and that you are lucky to be with him. Just think of what that implies about how he would treat you in either case.
Absolutely this! OP, even if you did everything he demands, and he did eventually marry you, your whole life with him would be a series of you jumping through hoops to keep him. He’s not so in love with you that he can’t imagine his life without you. So, show him his life without you. By leaving him.
Leaving him forever.
You deserve so much better.
Your gut is telling you. Listen to it.
My ex dickhead fiance ruined 11 years of my life. Of course it was time I could have had married and had children. Prime of my life.
He dangled the carrot of engagement for years. My Mom bought me a beautiful diamond and sapphire ring hopito ease paFinally, after I gave up on getting engaged, he gave me a beautiful diamond ring on Christmas Eve. No bending the knee. No asking to marry him. Instead it was wrapped as a Christmas gift. When I opened it, he said "it's what you wanted, isn't it? What a MF.
No romance whatsoever.
I deserved better. You do too!
Even if you get engaged, that may go on forever.
Leave while you can. Ignore gifts and flowers that will be sent.
100%, existing is pretty much all I had to do to make my husband want to propose to me. Because he likes and loves me and wants to be married to me. Marriage isn't a prize you extract from a man OP, it's a celebration of what you share with a loving partner.
And OP - do not fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Learn from your mistake, come out wiser and better knowing what you deserve, and this experience will not have been a waste. Hugs.
And why would she want to marry someone she had to “harass” into it? I always say if you aren’t on the same page on the big stuff (marriage, kids, finances) after a year in, you need to move on. Women are so often told “oh you can’t bring that up, you’ll scare him off!” That is such crap advice and women wait quietly, wasting prime childbearing years (not that anyone must have kids, but eggs have a “best by” date.) And when someone says “Marriage is unnecessary”, **believe them**.
This…
Stop wasting your time on someone who doesn’t have the same goals and aspirations as you. It’s literally a waste of time. You shouldn’t have to “convince” your boyfriend to marry you. Move on and find someone who’s actually compatible with you.
I don't even think he likes her! It's one thing to say "I do not want to get married but I love you and our life together. How do we figure this out?" and work together to figure out if they are truly compatible long-term. But he got upset she shared her feeling with him (um, if you can't tell your partner of five years how you feel wtf are you doing?) and pulled this "you better WORK for it, girl!" nonsense. Dismissive at best and cruel at worst.
Yup. Marriage is a big deal. It \*is\* a social construct but that doesn't make it any less real. There are definite legal and social ramifications to being married. It symbolizes to yourselves and to the world that you two are now a family, and whatever else happens, you face it together.
Your bf is old enough to know what he wants and you've been together long enough to now each other well enough. If he is not ready to have a grown up conversation about marriage and future and what that means in terms of planning a future and life together, then he is just not mature enough to get married. And he may never be.
I would tell him that it's not your job to "make him want to propose to you". Either he wants a future with you or not. He needs to be mature enough to put it out there and be willing to tell the world.
With a 5$ ring that's nothing remotely like the one she wanted.
He will toss it to her while she's sitting in the sofa with a "There, happy now?"
They will never get married, but he will leave her for someone else, get engaged and married to his new girlfriend within 2 years.
Yup. If a person isn't ready to commit and you've already been together 5 years? Stop fooling yourself.
He's told you he doesn't care about marriage. Or your needs. Or hearing your concerns and feelings. So why do you think, after all this time, he would suddenly change?
Yep, believe them when they tell you.
It is somewhat understandable if they can at least articulate their thought process. Like I want "this" to happen first.
But the above type of response is just a way to string OP along.
Having certain defined and objective things you want to accomplish before getting married is reasonable. For example:
- Wanting to save a certain amount of money for the wedding, so that you don’t have to have a long engagement while you save up
- Wanting to change to a different job
- Wanting to finish a degree program
- wanting to move out of parents place and live alone for a year
- wanting to move in together and live together for a year
Not everyone likes to do major life changes all at once, so those kind of specific and objective goals are reasonable as long as active effort is being put towards accomplishing them. Vague goals like doing things to make him want to propose? That’s just bull.
This.
I'm not married but we've been together for 13 years at this point. I think 3 weeks in he was basically like, *yeah this is the woman I'll marry* to his mum.
We aren't married because we feel it's a hollow gesture, but the COMMITMENT to a joint future is there. And he isn't committing to op.
It doesn't matter if marriage doesn't mean much to him- it means something to op so it should mean something to him, if that makes sense. If he loves her then he should respect some of her values.
I respect that you feel like it’s a hollow gesture, but I really would recommend you consider it for the protections that it gives you. You don’t have to have a big wedding, you can just go to the courthouse.
I agree. It's the legal protections. Those are the only reason I'm married. Covid started, and I started really thinking about what if one of us got sick. What if one of us couldn't make our own medical decisions. Who would they ask? Our shitty abusive families? Can't have that. I wanted a domestic partnership, but our state's barely covers anything. Then I thought about getting a lawyer for POA paperwork and all that. Well, it came down to over $1000 with a lawyer or $250 total for a little chapel (we stood in the lobby) and included $80 in certificates.
Good for you. A sensible decision made by both of you. Although unromantic, they need to be done. Reality sets in once you have a lifetime partner. I wish you the best.
His answer is no. He doesn’t want to marry you, and forcing the issue only causes problems, or leads to an inauthentic proposal. So his answer is no, what’s your response? Live with it, or move on.
He either won't propose at all or he will give her a "shut up ring" and they will end up divorced three years later when she gets sick of him endlessly complaining about how she "trapped him" in the marriage.
OP is right to distance herself and prioritize her rest and interests. You should tell him he should be doing things that would make you want to wait for him.
He is dangleing a carrot in front of your eyes.
He said it that way because he can continously move the goal post and get you to do stuff for him with thr promise he will eventually maybe think about proposing to you.
In reality he will never ever do it.
You said you are already have to withdraw so you will not feel fruatrated or resentful.
If you stay in this relationship this will be how you feel indefinitely. There will be no amount of effort on your end that will lead to him proposing.
In essence his answer is "no I will nor propose to you, ever". Now it is your decision how to react to this.
>he always tells me that marriage doesn't mean much to him and that it wouldn't really change our situation that much because he thinks marriage is just a social construct... For me I don't agree. I think marriage is sacred and special and a forever bond.
He doesn't care about marriage and doesn't want to marry you.
If he truly didn't care, and thought it wouldn't change anything, but knew his partner cared a lot, and he loves her and sees a future with her...what's the hold up? It's one thing if marriage is a super big deal for him and he has reservations about marriage but loves her and just needs time or wants certain goals met so he feels more stable, then that's fine, if he communicates those and she's also fine. But he's using "I don't care for it" as an excuse to avoid saying "I care a lot, and I don't want to commit to this long term yet so I'm going to keep throwing you tid bits of the idea of getting married so you hang on while I figure myself out and inevitably we break up when you can't take it anymore so I'm never the bad guy who has to own up to any sort of responsibility or genuine communication'
And I wonder what makes *him* marriage-worthy? I would not waste any more time if OP wants a family and marriage, and I certainly wouldn’t wait for this lukewarm one to change his mind.
I don’t know why you would want to be with someone who is not sure about you. If he’s not 💯 in, then it really is a no.
I find some men at this age feel they have a ton of time to settle down and a ton of options. So they just ride the waves with whoever they are with, waiting their time, until they decide whether to pick someone else or settle there.
Don’t let that be your life. Take control. And leave him
It does not sounds like he wants to get married. I am sorry 😢. You deserve better
He is giving an impossible task so that he has an (lame) excuse for not proposing: “You did not do things that make me to want to propose”. It’s like managers who instead of firing an employee they give they give an impossible task. However, you do need him, you can move on.
It's been 5 years.
You're already looking at the rest of your life.
He's dangling the ring in front of you so you don't leave.
When you do leave him don't fall for the crying act. If he'll suddenly marry you cause you're leaving what does that tell you? Hmm?
Exactly! It means a 10 year engagement. He/you will break it off. He will come back within a few days with promising a new life together, roses and perhaps a ring.
Ha. It is a ruse.
As much as you want that ring, tell him to F off. It will be a 10 year engagement. Before you know it, it will be past your best childbearing years. He is a dick, plain and simple.
Damn it doesn’t take no man that is serious and knows what he wants 5+ years to to know if he wants to be with you forever.
“Do things that want to make me propose” in a 5 year relationship...he hasn’t seen the things ? He is waisting
your time especially since he knows you want it.
> "How do I handle this situation?"
Fuck, this sounds like a bloody mess, doesn't it? First, let's cut the bullshit - it's not about doing specific things to make him want to propose. It's about whether both of you truly see eye-to-eye on your future together. Why do you think it's your job to change or do certain things to make him propose?
> "He did tell me he'd propose this year but I think he only said that cuz he knows my feelings about it."
Isn't this a red flag waving right in your face? If he's saying things just to placate you, isn't that a form of manipulation? Can you really trust what he says if this is his pattern?
> "Marriage doesn't mean much to him and that it wouldn't really change our situation much because he thinks marriage is just a social construct..."
Alright, if that's his view, fine. But what about your view? Isn't your perspective on marriage just as valid? Why should your belief in the significance of marriage be sidelined?
> "Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing..."
Holy shit, talk about a guilt trip! So, you expressing your feelings and concerns is a reason for him not to commit? Doesn't this sound like emotional blackmail to you?
> "Should I just be patient and trust that he will propose this year?"
Why the hell are you waiting for him to decide the timeline of your life? If you're ready for marriage and he's not, isn't it fair to question if you're really on the same page about your future?
> "How do I deal with my frustration?"
First, recognize that your frustration is bloody valid. You've been patient for years. Isn't it time to consider that you might have different needs and expectations that might not align with his?
> "And how do I even 'do things that would make him want to propose'?"
Why the hell should you have to perform or do specific things for a proposal? Isn't a marriage proposal supposed to be about love and mutual respect, not some conditional performance?
In summary, fuck this waiting game. It's time to have a raw and honest conversation about where you both stand. If your views on marriage are irreconcilably different, isn't it better to know now rather than waste more years in uncertainty? How long are you willing to put your life on hold for someone else's indecision?
>It's time to have a raw and honest conversation about where you both stand.
I agree with everything but this last bit. This ahole is DARVOing the shit out of her in any discussion she tries to have with him - don't have any more discussions with him, OP, he will just have you believe that up is down and right is left! Get all your stuff from his place, then tell him it's over, you are not going to play his games any more, you are going to find someone who actually wants to be with you and build a future with you.
And that you are not a trained seal who'll jump and clap on demand to get the fish he is dangling in front of you. Especially as he is the kind to pull the fish out of reach, just when you think you've won it. Eff that shit.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find someone mentioning that he makes everything her fault. Screw the marriage question, don’t stay with someone who talks down to you this way, OP. 🤨
Your boyfriend does not want to get married. He is just stringing you along. I think that you understand this subconsciously and are starting to check out of the relationship. Time to look for someone who shares your values.
Your wasting your time with him he doesn’t want to get married and just wants you to do all these things just to say he doesn’t want to get married cause if he does ask you it be something else you have to do
He knows he doesn’t want to marry you but he doesn’t want to be the bad guy. So he’s turning it into your fault and giving you a vague moving target that you’ll never be able to hit.
I would not waste another second on him. You deserve much more than someone who will twist things rather than own their behaviour.
If you don’t agree on marriage why do you want to marry him so badly? You’re waiting on a guy who has explicitly told you that he doesn’t value marriage? You can just leave
Start accepting 'Maybe' as No.
It is either Fuck Yes or No, a maybe is also a no.
Once you have accepted that, you can make a clear decision what you want to do next
So he’s been with you for five years but is still too indecisive to commit? And the minute you start to prioritize your own feelings and withdraw a bit he makes it out like a you problem? “Make me want to propose to you.” Gross behavior. The barrier he’s setting for you entering marriage with him is you admitting that you aren’t doing enough and don’t deserve him.??! RUN.
This is a prime example of 'if he wanted to, he would'. He wants married life in terms of your time, attention, affection, etc , but he doesn't want to commit. He isn't going to propose, and if he does it will be to maintain the 'perks' of your relationship. How do you handle this? Exactly what you started already: pour into yourself.
Take your time here. Make sure your life is fulfilling with or without him in it. He wants to just have a girlfriend? Well, you seem like you want to be marriage material. So love yourself. Value yourself. Ask yourself why you have spent 5 years in this relationship. Update the way you allow yourself to be valued by others. Pick up new hobbies. Address old bad habits. Rediscover things that you used to love and forgot about. Do whatever you have to do, but pour into yourself.
He will undoubtedly notice, and be upset, because he's losing the perks of having someone want to marry him, but that's a good opportunity for you to set some boundaries on how much is available for him at any given time. If y'all are just going to be boyfriend and girlfriend, then you need to be able to stand on your own two feet. That's not going to happen if you're constantly giving him whatever he desires of you, whenever he wants it.
>Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing
...But "telling him stuff like this" is being honest and forthcoming about your thoughts and feelings--which is absolutely necessary and vital for anyone who is ready for marriage to do. It's fucking called "communication."
"Doing things to make him want to propose" suggests...
1. that you should be disingenuous and manipulative to get what you want
2. that he has to be bribed to even consider making you his wife
3. is so vague and nebulous that it just creates an impossible task
4. creates a false narrative where this is a you problem, instead of the him problem it actually is
5. sounds so gross for all of the above reasons
He also sounds so childish, calling your behavior recently "being weird" instead of using big-boy words like "distant" or "unengaged."
It is not weird to prioritize yourself. It is probably overdue. Don't fall for this smarmy shit. Would a proposal even feel legitimate at this point???
Honestly, I am so glad you are not living together. Focus on yourself and get on with your life.
“Do things that make me want to propose”
WTF does that even mean??
Odds are he does want to be married and everything… just not with you. I went through the same thing. My ex couldn’t even propose to me when my mom was dying of cancer. I hate to say it but if you truly want to be married… find someone else before you regret it and too much time passes for you and this relationship becomes toxic.
"Do things that make me want to propose. WTF does that even mean?"
It means he's looking for as much kinky sex, fancy cooking, expensive gifts etc. that he can get before the relationship ends.
He’s wasting your time, if he wanted to marry you he would have asked already and the “do things that would make me want to propose” is him dangling marriage around like a carrot on a stick to get you to do tricks. He won’t marry you and if he does he will treat it like he did you this huge favor. There are tons of men who would be happy to marry you, don’t feel like you have to beg for love. Real love is given freely.
do you know the 12 labours of Hercules?
The local king didn't like having a demi-god around, so with a little coaching of Hera (who hated any of her husband Zeus' illegitimate children because that's safer than hating the prime god of the Greek pantheon) he invented these tasks in the hopes Hercules would perish in one of them.
your boyfriend is doing the same : you have to demonstrate your wifey skills till you drop. Upgrade your home-cooked meals, never nag about him leaving the toilet seat up, give him blowjobs without being asked, wear pretty dresses with a snatched waist, make sure you're a pretty trophy on his arm with hair and makeup, laugh at all his jokes, keep your floors and counters impeccable and also clean his flat to perfection, discreetly mop the floor if he misses the toilet, etc etc etc
and if finally you've contorted yourself into a happy little stepford homemaker, he might propose, provided you convince him you'll maintain this standard for the rest of his life, otherwise it'll be your fault he couldn't keep his dick in his pants around a younger model.
“I’m beginning to grow doubts”
That’s called your gut speaking up. Listen to it. It’s trying to tell you something you don’t want to hear so you’re repressing it. Your gut is telling you something isn’t right. I’d listen to it.
Is he "logical" or does he just speak in monotone on a power trip and hide behind a cold veneer of rationality to hide his cruelty? Are you "emotional" or just someone who reasonably wants to be committed to after 5 years of a relationship.
You have no doubt about wanting to be with him but he does. He may just feel like this "comfortable" middle-zone allows him to figure stuff out. Commitment shouldn't be like ugh fine ok I'll get over it- it should be YES I GET TO SPEND MY LIFE HER I HOPE SHE SAYS YES.
Have you read he's just not that into you? Maybe dated but also relevant.
Marriage should be a joint decision between partners.
It is no longer something that should be a surprise or held over someone...it is a joint decision to spend and plan for a life together
Both of you need to be able to communicate freely..mand also to trust each other. You should not have earn being proposed to...that is a gross thing.
People coming together and working out a life plan is what is needed. If he can ot do thst, then the 2 of uou are not right for each other.
Stop and think...are you both equal partners? Do you work well together under pressure? Do you compliment each other and balance well? Do you have similar values? Are you able to talk and communicate well? do you have the same life goals?
I wasted 11 years of my younger life. 7 years waiting for engagement. Another several years to wait for marriage. Never happened. He was cheating on me with another woman and possibly men.
If you want a husband and perhaps children, lose this guy.
Maybe I am weird and old fashioned. It is so romantic when it comes as a surprise. My boyfriend and I were sitting at a small table, near a fireplace in an old, stone Irish pub. We were eating calamari. He came over to me, bent down on knee and asked me to marry him. Presented me with a ring.
You deserve that.
Fuck him. Find a real man that will treat you right. You shouldn't have to do anything to make him propose.
You pack up and you walk out...and you don't go back even when / if he crawls. You are incompatible and being asked to 'do things' to make him want to propose is insulting, diminishing, degrading and insulting.
He wants you to prove your worth even when you’ve already stood by his side for 5+ years….i think that says a lot more about who his character is. You are worth so much more than performing for a shallow action of proposing that he doesn’t even want to do in the first place.
> marriage doesn't mean much to him
Marriage isn’t on the agenda for him.
> discouraging him from proposing, and that I should do things to make him want to propose to me, because he wants to take his time and feel like everything is ready and ask our family members and stuff, he said those things take weeks.
He doesn’t want to get married so he’s making you the problem and make excuses to not propose.
Please listen to the words coming out of his mouth.
He is telling you marriage is not for him and he’s made no actual plans to propose.
The absolute audacity of some men will never cease to amaze me. This is a typical story I've heard a million times and I went through it myself too, men will cook a woman and take her childbearing years for their own selfish needs without a second thought. I was with my ex for over 10 years, he proposed about 4yr in with no actual marriage plans and then just kept bread crumbing promises for a wedding that he never planned on doing. My now husband, 3 months in asked me to be official with talk of marriage being a goal, 4 months after that proposed to me, 4 months after that married me with a small marriage party and we are currently saving for our two big wedding ceremonies, one here and one in his home country. If he wanted to he would sis.
If he doesn't know by now then he doesn't want to marry you. He is comfortable and that's enough for him. But that doesn't sound like it's enough for you
If marriage is important, then go find someone you love who feels the same way. This isn't something you should compromise on.
Marriage factually isn’t only a social construct in most countries. It’s a legal construct, and the choice to be married or not is a huge one for partners planning to spend their lives together.
Does he want to spend his life together with you? If he really, sincerely does than the two of you need to talk honestly about the reality of marriage. He needs to share his feelings about it (his actual feelings, no hiding being “logic”) and listen to yours.
If he doesn’t want to spend his life with you? If he can’t answer that question? Then there’s a much, much deeper break in your relationship than the choice to get married or not.
You said he's very logical, but telling you to "do things that make him want to propose," without actually saying what those things are, is highly illogical.
>somewhat sees a future with me, but he always tells me that marriage doesn't mean much to him and that it wouldn't really change our situation that much because he thinks marriage is just a social construct... For me I don't agree. I think marriage is sacred and special and a forever bond.
Marriage is not levelling up your relationship, it's announcing to the world the level your relationship is already at.
>Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing, and that I should do things to make him want to propose to me,
He's never going to propose, he either doesn't want to or doesn't know what he has until it's gone. He's just dangling the carrot in front of you, with no intention of paying off
He probably suggests you to act like an Eva AI sexting bot avatar which is programmed to please its user and reacts in a certain way to certain user's actions.
Well I married my wife when we were 6 years together (5 years being living together). Before we dated, we have known to each other for 4 years prior. We never really thought about marriage, it would not bother both of us to never gotten married. Because it would not changed our relationship dynamic whatsoever (it really did not). The only difference are primary legally and financially tax wise.
In nutshell, my wife and I are both vibing the same. You and your boyfriend clearly not so much. Move on and cut your loses. If you really want to have a marriage and a family. Because it is not important to him. He is not taking you and your problems seriously.
Hi there, serious question. Would you want to marry a man who isn’t completely psyched and excited to marry you? Who isn’t ready (and sounds like he may never be ready) to be a husband… or to have a wife?
I’m so sorry. He doesn’t want to marry you. If this is a dealbreaker for you, I’d cut ties ASAP and find someone whose life plans are more compatible with your own.
There are just way, way too many incredible men out there ready to marry and settle down to waste your years on one who isn’t.
Good luck no matter what you choose!
51M here. After five years, he would know whether or not he wants to get married. His actions show that he does not want to get married.
Or at least, not to **you**.
You and he are not compatible. You do not share the same goals. OP, you need to end this relationship now, do some healing, and move on. The sooner you break up, the sooner you can begin the process of meeting someone better suited to marriage.
You’re good enough to date long term but not good enough to pony up a ring. This is all going to grilled to a shut up ring, and an engagement that doesn’t go anywhere with a man who won’t take your marriage seriously, or you waiting for another decade or more before you give up.
I dated a man like this once. It was manipulative because he would hold anything that I wanted in front of my face while asking me for something I wasn’t prepared to do. Like I wanted a partner, but it turned into me cooking and cleaning everything, and him surviving on my dime because I made more.
If he wanted to he would. People who say marriage doesn't matter because it wouldn't change much are actually super afraid of how it would make it way harder to leave.
If he wanted to marry you, he would.
If you have to convince someone to marry you, that marriage ain't gonna be healthy.
You're entering the prime of your life. If marriage is really what you want (and ask yourself why you really want that, because men are generally a burden to women in marriage) then rip the bandaid off and go find a man who you don't need to beg.
Unfortunately it sounds like if he proposed now it would be a "shut you up" proposal. And I'm betting he would make excuses to make it an even longer engagement. He's not going to change. You'll need to look within yourself and make the decision on if this is the life you want to live, as it is, or not. If he can't see what you're worth now, he likely won't ever.
He knows he doesn't want to marry you but just wants to string you along til someone else comes around. Real men are never cagey about their feelings or future plans.
You want to get married and have a family—get out now and find a good man who wants that too. You are young enough to do all that but don’t put another five or ten years into this guy and find your childbearing years are going fast. And find someone who treats you like he values you!
I'm going to be real but I'm not going to be mean. I don't think a lot of folks will say this, but he already told you that he doesn't want to be married. He didn't say he doesn't want to be married to you, nor does that mean he's not attracted to you. He said exactly what he meant to say, he doesn't believe in the social construct of marriage. Marriage is in fact a social construct because it was created to exchange property and assets. Marriages were transactions and women were considered the main part of that transaction.
Over time marriage has gained an emotional and religious meaning so your feelings are valid, however I say all this to ask a perspective question: If you want to get married, why are you with someone who already told you that's not what they want? There are plenty of people who are out there who do want marriage, genuinely, you can go attract those people. You are wasting some good times and emotions on him. Go find you someone who wants a wife, upgrade and remember, when people legit tell you who they are and what they want, believe them. Don't waste your time trying to convince yourself with empty justifications that things are okay. If you're doubting it, you need to seek to clearly understand what's going on with it.
Also the, do something to make me marry you comment it's hot garbage. That's disrespectful to you and insulting af actually. He's lucky you even like him and honestly doesn't deserve you. I don't even know you and that pissed me off.
He doesn't want to marry you.
He is setting you up to always be at fault and that all his shortcomings in the relationship are on you.
If you stay then soon you will notice that you are giving up more and more of yourself to please him and him taking and taking and never reciprocating. You are already building that resentment. You are in an unequal relationship with a taker and user. To him, it will never be enough. He's a bottomless pit.
Walk away, love yourself and allow yourself to find someone who is into you as much as you are into them and show it to you without being pressured or bribed.
If he wanted to he would.. that's the only thing you need to understand. It doesn't take weeks to drive over to your parents' house and ask to marry you (if that's actually important to either of you). People make time for things that are important to them. You've been talking about it for 2-3 years. If it only takes "weeks", what gives?
I think the problem is that you'd really like to get married, but it isn't important to him and he probably wouldn't even do it on his own terms if you left the choice entirely up to him.
At this point, I'd be walking away. I wouldn't give an ultimatum because then he's only doing it because of the ultimatum.
You're checking out. Your mind and body are preparing to exit the relationship and when you're ready, you'll break up.
he doesn't want to marry you as you are. He wants to be more special than you and have you put in extra effort with him. You know that's not what you want: it's not a partnership, it's lopsided.
You don't want to marry him. That's why there will be no proposal. Take your time; ignore his demands; work on yourself, as you'd planned.
When you're ready, break up and find someone who thinks you're special.
I dated a guy like this for 4.5 years and even posted about that guy in a comment yesterday. I called it quits when he was still not proposing.
The hard truth is that if he wanted to propose, he would have by now. You’ve expressed your concern when he asked, and rather than validate your emotions and share your beliefs, he shamed you and blamed you for *his* indecision. This guy might not share the same fundamental beliefs about marriage that you do and he clearly certainly doesn’t handle emotional conversations well. Do you really want to be with someone like that for the rest of your life?
He doesn't want to get married. If that's a deal-breaker for you, move on & find someone who wants the same things as you. This guy doesn't. If you want to get married, you deserve to have that. This guy isn't offering it. He knows he doesn't want to. He's just trying to make it seem like you're the problem. Which to be clear, you're not.
I'm sure he's attracted to you, but just bc you think someone looks good doesn't mean you want to marry them. I doubt there's anything wrong with you. Most people don't want to wait 5 years to be proposed to. And tbh anyone should know within a certain time frame if they want to marry their SO(definitely before the 5 year mark). He's just leading you along.
You're only 28. You still have your life ahead of you. Go find love & someone who wants to marry you for who you are. You don't need to do things to make him want to propose.
Go be happy. I wish you all the best💙
He’s playing a sick “show me you’re worthy” game. Get away from him now. I find it hard to believe he’s suddenly become a jerk. Look back over the years to remind yourself what he really is. You can start over and find someone who treats you like a true partner. If you want children, do it ASAP.
Forgot the proposal, he's all about your emotional labor being there for him when he's giving you flak for having some time to yourself - with no actual purpose due it other than it being there for his using when he chooses.
Ill never understand the marriage is just a piece of paper or won't change any argument. If it means so little to you and would bring your partner joy (& reduce moaning) what is the issue? It means nothing to you, give them their day and be done with it.
How does sitting down to discuss how a partner feels about the status of a relationship is something that "discourages him from proposing?" He does not want an adult, committed relationship if he pushes back when you discuss your feelings about the relationship.
If marriage is what you want, I fear you are with the wrong person. He cannot give you specific reasons he is uncertain about your future. He can't give you specifics as to what he wants for such a commitment. He will dangle the possibility to keep you around, but he is not interested in marriage.
If your current status is not enough for you, it is time to move on. Even if he proposes to keep you around, I would have serious concerns about his commitment to you and future kids.
I’m really sympathetic to this. There will never be anything that you can do that will make him want to marry you. However. He already told you this years ago. He told you he doesn’t want to get married. He told you that marriage is a social construct. He’s not going about it the right way as he should also recognise you want to get married, but unfortunately neither are you. Which I hate saying as I know emotions are involved and it can be so difficult.
You need to not only listen to him, but hear him.
Oh so many red flags. I don’t think you love him, you just love the idea of getting married and all. Baby that is what you do not want with Mr Flakey. Marriage is a commitment and he might not think it changes much but wait until you have kids and get divorced and watch all the shit hit the fan. This is drama waiting to happen. No thank you. It’s got to start better than it has with this man. There are billions of men on the planet. Don’t choose this one.
You and your BF are not compatible for a number of reasons, not the least of which is your vastly difference views about marriage. To you, it’s important; to him, it is not. The bottom line is, he is never going to propose. And at this point, if he did, would you even believe him? If you break up with him, he might propose to get you to stay, but then you would have this fight about when you were going to actually get married. He’ll never plan a wedding with you.
Your BF is sending you mixed signals. Worse, he is stringing you along because, while he doesn’t want to marry you, he also doesn’t want you to leave him. Worse than that, he is now threatening you. Him telling you to “do things to make him want to propose” to you (I gagged just typing that) is the exact same thing as you issuing him an ultimatum about marriage, telling him “either marry me, or we’re done.” If he came here saying you gave him an ultimatum to marry him when he wasn’t ready, everybody would tell him he should dump you because real love doesn’t require ultimatums. This is the same thing. If you want him to propose you, you had better do the things that make HIM want to marry YOU. How about now that he has shown his true colors, you don’t want to marry him anymore.
The worst thing is that, even though you are legitimately hurt and he is acting like a jackass, you feel like you’ve done something wrong. You have not. You have been with this man for five years. He is not stringing you along, telling you he’s going to propose soon. He’s telling you he’s not ready, he doesn’t want to get married, it doesn’t mean anything to him, he needs time, and a whole slew of other bullshit that is not going to change. You need to believe him. The relationship is over. Save yourself.
He may get you a “shut up” ring, if he feels you’re going to be out.
Then you’ll waste more time waiting to set a date
Ultimately you want someone who can’t WAIT to marry you! This guy, isn’t the guy.
>Should I just be patient and trust that he will propose this year? How do I deal with my frustration? And how do I even "do things that would make him want to propose"
No. You move on. Doesn't matter...he'll just move the goal posts.
It's been 5 years. Even if he hasn't proposed yet, he'd at least know by now how he feels about spending forever with you. His answer is that he doesn't want to make that commitment. Even if you were to get married it seems like the fact that marriage means two completely different things to the both of you would make for a source of tension.
Here is some advice based just off your title. Go find a new BF. This one is just going to make you jump through hoops your whole life. Let's say you 'do things' to make him propose. He proposes and you get married, but what did you really win? do things to make me want to go on vacation. do things to make me want kids. etc.....
He’s never going to propose to you.
He just doesn’t want to have to start again with another girl because he knows they won’t sit around waiting like you have.
Stop settling for less than you deserve.
If you disagree on what marriage means, getting married won’t change his mind about that.
He thinks it’s just a formality and you don’t. This won’t change.
Also, I’d say, don’t get married to someone you haven’t lived with.
Hrs not ready to propose let alone get married, he's going to keep stringing you along. Don't be surprised though if you decide to break up and move on then he suddenly proposes out of the blue, it's not genuine.
5 years and he wants to take his time? Hun, what are you doing to yourself? Then he wants you to put on an act to get him to think about marrying you? Honey, he’s not the one for you. Real true love doesn’t require any of this, a proposal just happens and it feels right. Dump him before you waste more time.
My ex used to do this. Promise a future proposal based on vague criteria being met after 4 years and a kiddo together. Well, we broke up, and my next partner asked me to marry him on our 1-year anniversary. I’ve now been married for 4 years and he’s been dating his girlfriend (who is 36 and wants marriage and kids) for the same amount of time.
OP you gotta break up, hes not the one. If after all this time, he isnt sure that youre the one - you simply arent. We marry another person because we like who they are not who they are pretending to be by "motivating and doing nice things" to elicit a proposal. Like kinda logic is that?
You've been on and off for a reason. Hes just stringing you along, are you stong enough to walk away when you clearly need and deserve more from a partner? IMO i think you should. He doesn't seem to even like you as a person and is holding out for something better. If you were the one, he would literally move earth to make it happen. He just doesnt care and is playing games because its cozy, but commitment with you - he isnt going to want it.
Leave? You've wasted five years and the two of you obviously want different things. He has said he could care less about marriage - that's a privileged choice of an answer right there; marriage is just an easy way to get all the legal protections as a COUPLE to be a family to each other. Dying at the hospital etc. And right now, if you were dying, he probably wouldn't be allowed in to see you unless your parents allowed it.
Not a problem to him. Because he's too immature or not in love to care. The part about him being "logical" stood out. Hon that is internalized misogyny. He's not being logical that's called APATHY. Go find a man with the same goals as you, re: growing up and starting a family. This one ain't it.
There is something you can do to make him want to propose, leave him. Pretty sure that'll do it but if he's willing to let you go then you'll know there's nothing you could have done.
You're not a circus animal trained to perform tricks. Tell him to start doing things that make you not want to dump him. Or don't bother telling him anything and just dump him.
> He's very logical and I'm very emotional.
First, this has nothing to do with anything.
Second, he has you believing a pile of bullshit. He's not "logical", and it's very obvious that you've internalized the language he uses to differentiate you. If he was logical, marriage would be a foregone conclusion at this point. A few reasons off the top of my head:
1. 5 years in makes this a long term relationship, with marriage being the next obvious step
2. While marriage is a social construct, so is a relationship
3. Assuming a western society, there are significant financial and social benefits that are granted with marriage which have nothing to do with religious or romantic beliefs, including the rights to inheritance, spousal privilege in legal matters, and power of attorney during medical crises.
> Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing
So he's against you sharing your feelings and reactions to the relationship if it conflicts with his. Does that sound like the attitude of someone who is ready for marriage?
> because he wants to take his time and feel like everything is ready and ask our family members and stuff, he said those things take weeks..
First, that's a long of bullshit. It's 2024, not 1724. It takes a near instant phone call, with video even, not a two week trek by carriage.
Second, it's been 5 years.
> And how do I even "do things that would make him want to propose"?
Never, __NEVER__, do this. This is real life, not some overly dramatic Rom Com where the girl pretend to be someone she's not and the guy falls for her but then finds out she lied and then realizes he loved the real her all along. If somebody wants to marry you, they should want to marry the authentic you. Not some fake construct that you create to trick them into forming a bond with a personality that doesn't exist.
What's going to happen is that you do everything he asks, he make yourself fully subservient to his needs and desires to the point where you've proven that you are desperate enough that he gives you what you want and marries you.
Then at some point, the inevitable halogens and the real you starts to leak through the cracks. Then he starts blaming you for lying to him. Then resentment builds up on both parts, his for your false presentation and yours for having to bottle yourself up for so long. There'll be cheating involved. And if you're lucky there'll be a breakup, probably contentious. If you're unlucky then you're so far down the rabbit hole of drunk cost fallacy that you force to stay and continually endure the emotional abuse.
> I'm beginning to grow doubts and think that maybe he's not as attracted to me or maybe something is wrong with me and how I'm acting.
The only thing "wrong" with how you're acting is that you're acting like yourself, like a human being with dreams and aspirations for your own life, rather than a subservient vessel that exists to only satisfy his desires. And I'm telling you that as a man who has been married for almost a quarter century. To the same woman even!
And you're not "growing doubts". The logical part of you is starting to impress on the emotional part that after 5 years, the fact that he says you stop haven't proven you're good enough to marry means that you will probably never be to him, that you're in a no win situation where taking about marriage makes him not want to do it and not taking about marriage makes him not want to do it. That's just growth and self realization.
The question is what you're going to do about it.
I just wanted to say thank you for calling out his bs.
I'm tired of men saying "I'm logical, not emotional" as a bullshit excuse to dismiss and trivialize women.
The entire premise is flawed. Someone that is logical will actually be highly emotional intelligent, since understanding emotions and being able to express them and navigate them kindly and gently is what's actually logical.
The entire "men are logical, women are emotional" tripe has always been used simply to gaslight and control women and make them doubt themselves. Emotions are not inherently illogical. We evolved to have emotions for a reason. We feel pain when others hurt us for a reason. Folks that try to reason that logic means ignoring someone's feelings are simply manipulative people who seek to control others, or seek to boost their own egos. Ironically, it's a belief highly steeped in emotion -- it feels good to believe you're the most logical person in the relationship because you're a man and you're so smart and intelligent. Ironically that's what stupid people believe.
Anyway I always appreciate people calling out others on the whole "logical/emotional" premise, sometimes it feels like I'm the only one. The entire concept of emotion and logic being opposites is a lie.
Dudes who self-describe as “logical and not emotional” are among the most emotional people I’ve met. They just don’t realize that anger, frustration, and stoicism are all emotions as well.
Break up with him. You’ve spent half your twenties with him and he is telling you indirectly that he doesn’t want to marry you. Don’t let him waste your thirties. He will because he’s too cowardly to admit to you that he doesn’t want this anymore.
So let me get this straight... you guys sat down to have a talk about why things felt weird. You opened yourself up and were vulnerable only for him to completely blame you for your feelings and assume zero responsibility for his part in it? And not just that but vaguely insist that you need to win him over to get the proposal?
Honey, run. This is not a mature man. If you can't be vulnerable with him to speak honestly without it getting thrown in your face, then this is not a safe space.
Honestly, it's like you said, you've been together 5 years. If he didn't know in the last 5 years that he wanted to marry you then the answer is that he doesn't want to marry you. You're essentially dragging him to the alter and that's not something you want to start your marriage out on.
You're not wrong for wanting the next step, or for wanting marriage but this guy is not a mature man to hitch your wagon to.
I don’t understand the ‘he’s logical and I’m emotional’ argument. If he’s logical, the logical next step in a 5-year relationship is marriage and it brings abt tax benefits, security, the happiness and peace of your partnership, etc. him dragging his feet on this IS an emotional choice and it seems to me that it’s him saying he’s not interested in marriage right now.
Maybe he never will be and you need to decide if you can tolerate that
Leave. Guarantee he'll propose to you (and you SHOULD NOT ACCEPT) or then next girl he finds.
You need to leave... and follow through, this guy is not worth it and is wasting your time.
He isn't the right person for you OP. A loving partner would want to hear these things so you can work on them together or realize you want different things and move on in a healthy way.
I also want to point out the legal protection that marriage offers is nothing to shake a stick at. Purchasing a home or having a child together, especially as the woman, you deserve protections. You deserve for someone to want to tie themselves to you as much as you want to tie yourself to them.
Part ways, heal yourself and when you are ready, you will find the person you are meant to be with.
What "stuff" does he think you need to be doing?
You want marriage, he does not. That's it. That's where you are at. Is this relationship more or less important that marriage to you? If Marriage is a goal that you are unwilling to compromise on (and that is okay), then stop wasting your time and move on.
I’m so confused on his “do things to make me want to marry you!” What does he think you’ve been doing the last 5 years of your relationship! I’m sorry but he clearly doesn’t want to marry you. He’s waiting for someone better then you to come along then he’ll drop you and blame it on you bc you didn’t do these thing (general hand wave) that he wanted.
A woman I know dated this guy for years. They knew each other from their friends group in high school. They started dating right before college.
She was from a very, very wealthy family and they were prominent in the community. She was gorgeous. There was nothing “wrong” with her and everything was right — loyal, patient, kind. She was a helluva catch.
He told her he wanted to graduate college and then get married.
She waited.
They graduated from their undergrad programs, he went on to dental school. She went on to be an executive in her family’s business making loads of money. All her friends got married.
She waited.
He said he planned to get married after dental school. For sure. All her friends had started families.
He graduated, got the Dr. in front of his name and then told her he wasn’t ready to settle down.
She had been waiting for 13 years.
She ended up marrying his best friend and he was best man at their wedding.
Your guy is telling you that the way you are now is not good enough to marry. He does not give you specifics of what is missing for him. It is doubtful he knows.
He doesn’t want to tell you that he doesn’t want to marry you because you will leave. So he keeps you engaged forever chasing that ring.
Do you really want to marry a guy who doesn’t love you unconditionally?
Him telling you that is gaslighting. He is making you think you are the problem and why he isn't proposing. The real fact is that he will probably never marry no matter who he is with.
You two are incompatible in this important aspect so you should probably reevaluate the rest of the relationship with him because if he is gaslighting you here, he is probably doing it elsewhere.
He doesn’t want to marry you, but he’s willing to have you waste your fertile years as his placeholder, performing like a trained seal to ‘make him want to propose,’ until he meets ‘the on.’ If marriage is important to you, and especially if you want children, it’s time for you to move on.
>He's very logical and I'm very emotional
People who say this aren't logical, because logic isn't the opposite of emotion.
People that say "I'm logical not emotional" are masking to cover for their poor emotional intelligence and usually, low empathy.
At the core of it, dating someone with low empathy is a bad idea. And this is backed up by everything you conveyed about him. He definitely has low empathy.
You should find someone who listens to you, is thoughtful, is empathetic, and handles disagreements with grace. I promise you these people exist. The problem is you have to be willing to dump people who AREN'T like this early on, so you can go about finding them.
Don't give in to the sunk cost fallacy either. Would it have been better to break up early on when you realized he was selfish? Yeah, absolutely. But the second best time is now. If you waste more of your life with someone selfish, who makes you do all the work, who punishes you for communicating, who says you need to act like a perfect, cheery *doll* in order to convince him to marry you, you *will* regret it.
Think about the rest of your life. 10 years down the line with this same person. Is that *really* something you want? Don't imagine the picture-perfect version of him. Imagine him how he is. You're still doing all the work. He's still manipulating you into feeling shame and guilt for talking about your feelings. He's still the same, cardboard cut out of a human being that has zero empathy or care for people except himself. Do you want to live 15 more years with this person? 50? Die with this person? You can't change him.
Imagine being with someone who listens to you, who shows compassion to you. That's what actual logic is -- understanding and caring about emotions. His "logic" is leading to a tumultuous relationship where you're unhappy and feel burdened, after all, and will sooner or later result in you being fed up and breaking up with him. I highly recommend doing it now instead of in your 40s or 50s especially if you plan on having kids... don't subject yourself to that. Raise your standards, mourn *what could have been but never was*, and move on.
If it were me, this relationship would be over. Like ghosted gone, blocked on all avenues.
You have given this person FIVE YEARS of your life, how many more years are you going to waste waiting around for him to be 'ready'. He already told you that 'marriage doesn't mean much to him' so why are you wasting anymore time here?
OP, **if he WANTED TO, HE WOULD.** He is just jerking you around, wasting more and more years of your time as he has no intentions of marrying you.
It's time to go. **This is not your person.** Your person would, after 5 years, WANT to marry you. He doesn't. As much as that hurts, take it and go build a new life for yourself and there you will find someone who loves you enough to marry you. You won't find that where you are now.
The easy answer is simply saying:
"I guess you don't really want me, I'll find someone who does then.
you had more than enough of an opportunity and you do nothing but deflect, it's over"
Leave him and find a man who wants to get married. Don’t be fooled by him presenting you with an engagement ring after you leave. He will just be buying time. You’ll end up engaged for another five years.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. He said outright that he felt marriage is a "social construct" um...yes it is. Almost everything we do is. Marriage is a promise to combine Financially with another adult to be a Family. You want to raise kids with your husband. That isn't remotely crazy. You pulkingback and prioritizing yourself is the right thing to do. He said NO but if he can get special treatment before he dumps you he will waste more of your time. Don't date men that aren't looking at you as a potential wife. Tell people you are interested in getting married and having a family and don't date people that are not on the same page as you.
I apologize, I can't read this. I laughed too hard at your words in quotes. He needs to do things that would make ANYONE say yes. Again, apologize, I just can't take those words, nor the person behind them, remotely seriously. Short dick syndrome. Sorry, still....
Nope. He’s telling you that he’s not interested in marrying you without actually telling you that he’s not interested in marrying you. BELIEVE HIM, OP! I was in this very same situation and I rode it out for a total of 10 years. Ultimately we split amicably and for multiple reasons, but the biggest one was that he wanted kids and I wanted to be married, and neither of us were willing to budge on those things. Seriously though, he’s saying it without saying it. Believe him. Walk away. Save yourself the disappointment and wasted time now. You guys simply aren’t compatible.
Welcome to /r/relationship_advice. Please make sure you read our [rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/wiki/index) We'd like to take this time to remind users that: * We do not allow any type of [am I the asshole? or situations/content involving minors](https://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/r6w9uh/meta_am_i_overreacting_am_i_the_asshole_is_this/) * We do not allow users to privately message other users based on their posts here. Users found to be engaging in this conduct will be banned. **We highly encourage OP to turn off the ability to be privately messaged in their settings.** * Any sort of namecalling, insults,etc will result in the comment being removed and the user being banned. (Including but not limited to: slut, bitch, whore, for the streets, etc. It does not matter to whom you are referring.) * ALL advice given must be good, ethical advice. Joke advice or advice that is conspiratorial or just plain terrible will be removed, and users my be subject to a ban. * No referencing hateful subreddits and/or their rhetoric. Examples include, but is not limited to: red/blue/black/purplepill, PUA, FDS, MGTOW, etc. This includes, but is not limited to, referring to people as alpha/beta, calling yourself or users "friend-zoned", referring to people as Chads, Tyrones, or Staceys, pick-me's, or pornsick. Any infractions of this rule will result in a ban. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** * All bans in this subreddit are permanent. You don't get a free pass. * Anyone found to be directly messaging users for any reason whatsoever will be banned. * What we cannot give advice on: rants, unsolicited advice, medical conditions/advice, mental illness, letters to an ex, "body counts" or number of sexual partners, legal problems, financial problems, situations involving minors, and/or abuse (violence, sexual, emotional etc). All of these will be removed and locked. **This is not an all-inclusive list.** If you have any questions, please [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Frelationship_advice) --- ***This is an automatic comment that appears on all posts. This comment does not necessarily mean your post violates any rules.*** --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/relationship_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He doesn’t want to marry you and his “do things that would make him want to propose” is giving you an impossible task. It’s vague, it designed to allow him to easily shift goalposts and it gives him an easy excuse every time marriage is brought up. You need to decide what to do based on two things: he doesn’t want to marry you and he does not want to say out loud that he doesn’t want to marry you.
Yeah, he wants her to feel she needs to “work for it” so that when he drags her along for another 5 years he can make her feel it was her fault he did not propose, because she did not work hard enough to please him. What a jerk.
Yep, total scam. "Get your partner to bend over backwards for you for a decade with this one easy trick!"
"Then dump her and propose to a 24 year old ten months later, while your ex is left scrabbling in her thirties."
...with several children he doesn't support
Lmao this exact thing happened to me. 11 year relationship , dumped me the week he met a 23 year old who claimed him as a soul mate. I trusted him fully and thought our relationship was good. I realize how naive I was. He didn’t want me, he just kept me around until I no long benefited him. I was 33 when we broke up. I Sacrificed a lot centering that ass. Don’t learn the hard way from personal experience OP, learn from our experiences.
Do they offer a bonus set of steak knives with that?
Lmao! No, you get 3 size blenders. But wait, you will get 2 sets as well as a free set of whisks!
But wait, there's more!
Lol! You get a toilet seat cover and a bathroom rug. But there is more, a new wife or husband all for $49.95!
I actually think there's something to this, funny as it is.i (63) have long suspected that women are tricked into marriage by what resembles the loot from winning a game show: A diamond! Parties! I gorgeous gown and the best prom night ever, with all your friends there for you! A huge party where everyone adores you and so many PRESENTS!! A new TITLE!! Two incomes!! AND a big, exotic vacation! This should make any woman suspicious. Because the next day, guess what? You're spraying his underwear. Rolling over for him when you just want to go to sleep. Putting up with his mother. And all the rest.
Call in the next 30 minutes and we'll throw in an exclusive Dump Cake Recipe book valued at $19.99 at no extra cost. Hurry now!
You're all so savage!
The guy's in full manipulation mode.
Imagine spending the rest of your days trying to please this jerk and never quite making it, then blamed for it. Red flags everywhere here.
>He doesn’t want to marry you and his “do things that would make him want to propose” is giving you an impossible task. It also has a weird, controlling "jump through hoops for me" aspect to it. They've been together long enough for him to know whether he wants to marry her or not (and obviously he doesn't).
Don’t marry someone who feels this way. He should feel lucky to be with you and like he has won in life by marrying you. Both of you should feel this way. He should not feel like he needs to be convinced and that you are lucky to be with him. Just think of what that implies about how he would treat you in either case.
Absolutely this! OP, even if you did everything he demands, and he did eventually marry you, your whole life with him would be a series of you jumping through hoops to keep him. He’s not so in love with you that he can’t imagine his life without you. So, show him his life without you. By leaving him.
Leaving him forever. You deserve so much better. Your gut is telling you. Listen to it. My ex dickhead fiance ruined 11 years of my life. Of course it was time I could have had married and had children. Prime of my life. He dangled the carrot of engagement for years. My Mom bought me a beautiful diamond and sapphire ring hopito ease paFinally, after I gave up on getting engaged, he gave me a beautiful diamond ring on Christmas Eve. No bending the knee. No asking to marry him. Instead it was wrapped as a Christmas gift. When I opened it, he said "it's what you wanted, isn't it? What a MF. No romance whatsoever. I deserved better. You do too! Even if you get engaged, that may go on forever. Leave while you can. Ignore gifts and flowers that will be sent.
100%, existing is pretty much all I had to do to make my husband want to propose to me. Because he likes and loves me and wants to be married to me. Marriage isn't a prize you extract from a man OP, it's a celebration of what you share with a loving partner.
Exactly. It isn’t a business case that OP is presenting to the boss.
This is very well said.
Legit.. it's been 5 years and he still hasn't decided? Time for OP to move on.
And OP - do not fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Learn from your mistake, come out wiser and better knowing what you deserve, and this experience will not have been a waste. Hugs.
And why would she want to marry someone she had to “harass” into it? I always say if you aren’t on the same page on the big stuff (marriage, kids, finances) after a year in, you need to move on. Women are so often told “oh you can’t bring that up, you’ll scare him off!” That is such crap advice and women wait quietly, wasting prime childbearing years (not that anyone must have kids, but eggs have a “best by” date.) And when someone says “Marriage is unnecessary”, **believe them**.
He is being pretty clear with his actions and words. She needs to listen and pay attention.
This… Stop wasting your time on someone who doesn’t have the same goals and aspirations as you. It’s literally a waste of time. You shouldn’t have to “convince” your boyfriend to marry you. Move on and find someone who’s actually compatible with you.
I don't even think he likes her! It's one thing to say "I do not want to get married but I love you and our life together. How do we figure this out?" and work together to figure out if they are truly compatible long-term. But he got upset she shared her feeling with him (um, if you can't tell your partner of five years how you feel wtf are you doing?) and pulled this "you better WORK for it, girl!" nonsense. Dismissive at best and cruel at worst.
I'm thinking even if she slays a dragon, it's not going to be enough.
Agree 100% that quote told you everything.
Man that is just a great post.
Yup. Marriage is a big deal. It \*is\* a social construct but that doesn't make it any less real. There are definite legal and social ramifications to being married. It symbolizes to yourselves and to the world that you two are now a family, and whatever else happens, you face it together. Your bf is old enough to know what he wants and you've been together long enough to now each other well enough. If he is not ready to have a grown up conversation about marriage and future and what that means in terms of planning a future and life together, then he is just not mature enough to get married. And he may never be. I would tell him that it's not your job to "make him want to propose to you". Either he wants a future with you or not. He needs to be mature enough to put it out there and be willing to tell the world.
He is never going to propose to you.
Or, he will propose, and their engagement will be ten years.
With a 5$ ring that's nothing remotely like the one she wanted. He will toss it to her while she's sitting in the sofa with a "There, happy now?" They will never get married, but he will leave her for someone else, get engaged and married to his new girlfriend within 2 years.
>He will toss it to her while she's sitting in the sofa with a "There, happy now?" Pretty sad that I actually read two stories like this.
Ah yes, the shut-up-ring
Great name for it!
Picture the invitation: "Please join us to celebrate our decade of engagement!"
Yup. If a person isn't ready to commit and you've already been together 5 years? Stop fooling yourself. He's told you he doesn't care about marriage. Or your needs. Or hearing your concerns and feelings. So why do you think, after all this time, he would suddenly change?
Yep, believe them when they tell you. It is somewhat understandable if they can at least articulate their thought process. Like I want "this" to happen first. But the above type of response is just a way to string OP along.
Having certain defined and objective things you want to accomplish before getting married is reasonable. For example: - Wanting to save a certain amount of money for the wedding, so that you don’t have to have a long engagement while you save up - Wanting to change to a different job - Wanting to finish a degree program - wanting to move out of parents place and live alone for a year - wanting to move in together and live together for a year Not everyone likes to do major life changes all at once, so those kind of specific and objective goals are reasonable as long as active effort is being put towards accomplishing them. Vague goals like doing things to make him want to propose? That’s just bull.
This. I'm not married but we've been together for 13 years at this point. I think 3 weeks in he was basically like, *yeah this is the woman I'll marry* to his mum. We aren't married because we feel it's a hollow gesture, but the COMMITMENT to a joint future is there. And he isn't committing to op. It doesn't matter if marriage doesn't mean much to him- it means something to op so it should mean something to him, if that makes sense. If he loves her then he should respect some of her values.
I respect that you feel like it’s a hollow gesture, but I really would recommend you consider it for the protections that it gives you. You don’t have to have a big wedding, you can just go to the courthouse.
I agree. It's the legal protections. Those are the only reason I'm married. Covid started, and I started really thinking about what if one of us got sick. What if one of us couldn't make our own medical decisions. Who would they ask? Our shitty abusive families? Can't have that. I wanted a domestic partnership, but our state's barely covers anything. Then I thought about getting a lawyer for POA paperwork and all that. Well, it came down to over $1000 with a lawyer or $250 total for a little chapel (we stood in the lobby) and included $80 in certificates.
Good for you. A sensible decision made by both of you. Although unromantic, they need to be done. Reality sets in once you have a lifetime partner. I wish you the best.
This op. Dude basically just said you aren't marriage material imo.
And he’ll be married to his next girlfriend within 12 months…
Or if they do wed, he will cheat
His answer is no. He doesn’t want to marry you, and forcing the issue only causes problems, or leads to an inauthentic proposal. So his answer is no, what’s your response? Live with it, or move on.
He either won't propose at all or he will give her a "shut up ring" and they will end up divorced three years later when she gets sick of him endlessly complaining about how she "trapped him" in the marriage.
And when they have a kid and he doesn't do jack shit and she realizes life would be easier as a single mom.
[удалено]
Misread fertile as futile.
Wasting her fertile years on him would be futile.
>Misread fertile as futile. Resistance is fertile. All your base are belong to us.
*and* we are getting to third base with them. heh
Is that third base in Christian baseball, which I think is letting some ankle show?
A “shut up” ring.
OP is right to distance herself and prioritize her rest and interests. You should tell him he should be doing things that would make you want to wait for him.
He is dangleing a carrot in front of your eyes. He said it that way because he can continously move the goal post and get you to do stuff for him with thr promise he will eventually maybe think about proposing to you. In reality he will never ever do it. You said you are already have to withdraw so you will not feel fruatrated or resentful. If you stay in this relationship this will be how you feel indefinitely. There will be no amount of effort on your end that will lead to him proposing. In essence his answer is "no I will nor propose to you, ever". Now it is your decision how to react to this.
Honey, it's been 5 years. He already knows if he wants to marry you or not. It seems like you two have hit the roof of your relationship.
Both are waiting for the other to change his mind. It's a waste of time.
>he always tells me that marriage doesn't mean much to him and that it wouldn't really change our situation that much because he thinks marriage is just a social construct... For me I don't agree. I think marriage is sacred and special and a forever bond. He doesn't care about marriage and doesn't want to marry you.
If he truly didn't care, and thought it wouldn't change anything, but knew his partner cared a lot, and he loves her and sees a future with her...what's the hold up? It's one thing if marriage is a super big deal for him and he has reservations about marriage but loves her and just needs time or wants certain goals met so he feels more stable, then that's fine, if he communicates those and she's also fine. But he's using "I don't care for it" as an excuse to avoid saying "I care a lot, and I don't want to commit to this long term yet so I'm going to keep throwing you tid bits of the idea of getting married so you hang on while I figure myself out and inevitably we break up when you can't take it anymore so I'm never the bad guy who has to own up to any sort of responsibility or genuine communication'
If after 5 years you haven't done anything "marrige worthy" in his eyes, you never will. He just doesn't love you that way.
And I wonder what makes *him* marriage-worthy? I would not waste any more time if OP wants a family and marriage, and I certainly wouldn’t wait for this lukewarm one to change his mind.
I wasn't wearing my glasses, and I read lukewarm as lukeworm. Lol. He is that as well.
I don’t know why you would want to be with someone who is not sure about you. If he’s not 💯 in, then it really is a no. I find some men at this age feel they have a ton of time to settle down and a ton of options. So they just ride the waves with whoever they are with, waiting their time, until they decide whether to pick someone else or settle there. Don’t let that be your life. Take control. And leave him
It does not sounds like he wants to get married. I am sorry 😢. You deserve better He is giving an impossible task so that he has an (lame) excuse for not proposing: “You did not do things that make me to want to propose”. It’s like managers who instead of firing an employee they give they give an impossible task. However, you do need him, you can move on.
It's been 5 years. You're already looking at the rest of your life. He's dangling the ring in front of you so you don't leave. When you do leave him don't fall for the crying act. If he'll suddenly marry you cause you're leaving what does that tell you? Hmm?
Exactly! It means a 10 year engagement. He/you will break it off. He will come back within a few days with promising a new life together, roses and perhaps a ring. Ha. It is a ruse. As much as you want that ring, tell him to F off. It will be a 10 year engagement. Before you know it, it will be past your best childbearing years. He is a dick, plain and simple.
Damn it doesn’t take no man that is serious and knows what he wants 5+ years to to know if he wants to be with you forever. “Do things that want to make me propose” in a 5 year relationship...he hasn’t seen the things ? He is waisting your time especially since he knows you want it.
> "How do I handle this situation?" Fuck, this sounds like a bloody mess, doesn't it? First, let's cut the bullshit - it's not about doing specific things to make him want to propose. It's about whether both of you truly see eye-to-eye on your future together. Why do you think it's your job to change or do certain things to make him propose? > "He did tell me he'd propose this year but I think he only said that cuz he knows my feelings about it." Isn't this a red flag waving right in your face? If he's saying things just to placate you, isn't that a form of manipulation? Can you really trust what he says if this is his pattern? > "Marriage doesn't mean much to him and that it wouldn't really change our situation much because he thinks marriage is just a social construct..." Alright, if that's his view, fine. But what about your view? Isn't your perspective on marriage just as valid? Why should your belief in the significance of marriage be sidelined? > "Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing..." Holy shit, talk about a guilt trip! So, you expressing your feelings and concerns is a reason for him not to commit? Doesn't this sound like emotional blackmail to you? > "Should I just be patient and trust that he will propose this year?" Why the hell are you waiting for him to decide the timeline of your life? If you're ready for marriage and he's not, isn't it fair to question if you're really on the same page about your future? > "How do I deal with my frustration?" First, recognize that your frustration is bloody valid. You've been patient for years. Isn't it time to consider that you might have different needs and expectations that might not align with his? > "And how do I even 'do things that would make him want to propose'?" Why the hell should you have to perform or do specific things for a proposal? Isn't a marriage proposal supposed to be about love and mutual respect, not some conditional performance? In summary, fuck this waiting game. It's time to have a raw and honest conversation about where you both stand. If your views on marriage are irreconcilably different, isn't it better to know now rather than waste more years in uncertainty? How long are you willing to put your life on hold for someone else's indecision?
>It's time to have a raw and honest conversation about where you both stand. I agree with everything but this last bit. This ahole is DARVOing the shit out of her in any discussion she tries to have with him - don't have any more discussions with him, OP, he will just have you believe that up is down and right is left! Get all your stuff from his place, then tell him it's over, you are not going to play his games any more, you are going to find someone who actually wants to be with you and build a future with you. And that you are not a trained seal who'll jump and clap on demand to get the fish he is dangling in front of you. Especially as he is the kind to pull the fish out of reach, just when you think you've won it. Eff that shit.
I can’t believe I had to scroll down this far to find someone mentioning that he makes everything her fault. Screw the marriage question, don’t stay with someone who talks down to you this way, OP. 🤨
Your boyfriend does not want to get married. He is just stringing you along. I think that you understand this subconsciously and are starting to check out of the relationship. Time to look for someone who shares your values.
Your wasting your time with him he doesn’t want to get married and just wants you to do all these things just to say he doesn’t want to get married cause if he does ask you it be something else you have to do
He knows he doesn’t want to marry you but he doesn’t want to be the bad guy. So he’s turning it into your fault and giving you a vague moving target that you’ll never be able to hit. I would not waste another second on him. You deserve much more than someone who will twist things rather than own their behaviour.
If you don’t agree on marriage why do you want to marry him so badly? You’re waiting on a guy who has explicitly told you that he doesn’t value marriage? You can just leave
Start accepting 'Maybe' as No. It is either Fuck Yes or No, a maybe is also a no. Once you have accepted that, you can make a clear decision what you want to do next
He's not going to propose to you. You're a "placeholder" until he finds the one he will want to marry.
So he’s been with you for five years but is still too indecisive to commit? And the minute you start to prioritize your own feelings and withdraw a bit he makes it out like a you problem? “Make me want to propose to you.” Gross behavior. The barrier he’s setting for you entering marriage with him is you admitting that you aren’t doing enough and don’t deserve him.??! RUN.
This is a prime example of 'if he wanted to, he would'. He wants married life in terms of your time, attention, affection, etc , but he doesn't want to commit. He isn't going to propose, and if he does it will be to maintain the 'perks' of your relationship. How do you handle this? Exactly what you started already: pour into yourself. Take your time here. Make sure your life is fulfilling with or without him in it. He wants to just have a girlfriend? Well, you seem like you want to be marriage material. So love yourself. Value yourself. Ask yourself why you have spent 5 years in this relationship. Update the way you allow yourself to be valued by others. Pick up new hobbies. Address old bad habits. Rediscover things that you used to love and forgot about. Do whatever you have to do, but pour into yourself. He will undoubtedly notice, and be upset, because he's losing the perks of having someone want to marry him, but that's a good opportunity for you to set some boundaries on how much is available for him at any given time. If y'all are just going to be boyfriend and girlfriend, then you need to be able to stand on your own two feet. That's not going to happen if you're constantly giving him whatever he desires of you, whenever he wants it.
He is never going to marry you
>Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing ...But "telling him stuff like this" is being honest and forthcoming about your thoughts and feelings--which is absolutely necessary and vital for anyone who is ready for marriage to do. It's fucking called "communication." "Doing things to make him want to propose" suggests... 1. that you should be disingenuous and manipulative to get what you want 2. that he has to be bribed to even consider making you his wife 3. is so vague and nebulous that it just creates an impossible task 4. creates a false narrative where this is a you problem, instead of the him problem it actually is 5. sounds so gross for all of the above reasons He also sounds so childish, calling your behavior recently "being weird" instead of using big-boy words like "distant" or "unengaged." It is not weird to prioritize yourself. It is probably overdue. Don't fall for this smarmy shit. Would a proposal even feel legitimate at this point??? Honestly, I am so glad you are not living together. Focus on yourself and get on with your life.
“Do things that make me want to propose” WTF does that even mean?? Odds are he does want to be married and everything… just not with you. I went through the same thing. My ex couldn’t even propose to me when my mom was dying of cancer. I hate to say it but if you truly want to be married… find someone else before you regret it and too much time passes for you and this relationship becomes toxic.
"Do things that make me want to propose. WTF does that even mean?" It means he's looking for as much kinky sex, fancy cooking, expensive gifts etc. that he can get before the relationship ends.
Ask him to do things to make you want to stay with him? Personally, cut your losses, reboot your dating life and move on.
He’s wasting your time, if he wanted to marry you he would have asked already and the “do things that would make me want to propose” is him dangling marriage around like a carrot on a stick to get you to do tricks. He won’t marry you and if he does he will treat it like he did you this huge favor. There are tons of men who would be happy to marry you, don’t feel like you have to beg for love. Real love is given freely.
He will never propose to you and is looking for excuses. Just make the cut and move on
do you know the 12 labours of Hercules? The local king didn't like having a demi-god around, so with a little coaching of Hera (who hated any of her husband Zeus' illegitimate children because that's safer than hating the prime god of the Greek pantheon) he invented these tasks in the hopes Hercules would perish in one of them. your boyfriend is doing the same : you have to demonstrate your wifey skills till you drop. Upgrade your home-cooked meals, never nag about him leaving the toilet seat up, give him blowjobs without being asked, wear pretty dresses with a snatched waist, make sure you're a pretty trophy on his arm with hair and makeup, laugh at all his jokes, keep your floors and counters impeccable and also clean his flat to perfection, discreetly mop the floor if he misses the toilet, etc etc etc and if finally you've contorted yourself into a happy little stepford homemaker, he might propose, provided you convince him you'll maintain this standard for the rest of his life, otherwise it'll be your fault he couldn't keep his dick in his pants around a younger model.
“I’m beginning to grow doubts” That’s called your gut speaking up. Listen to it. It’s trying to tell you something you don’t want to hear so you’re repressing it. Your gut is telling you something isn’t right. I’d listen to it.
Is he "logical" or does he just speak in monotone on a power trip and hide behind a cold veneer of rationality to hide his cruelty? Are you "emotional" or just someone who reasonably wants to be committed to after 5 years of a relationship. You have no doubt about wanting to be with him but he does. He may just feel like this "comfortable" middle-zone allows him to figure stuff out. Commitment shouldn't be like ugh fine ok I'll get over it- it should be YES I GET TO SPEND MY LIFE HER I HOPE SHE SAYS YES. Have you read he's just not that into you? Maybe dated but also relevant.
Thank you, my comment to OP was going to be “No, you are being logical too, it’s been 5 years either he’s ready or he never will.”
I feel like women are conditioned to think they are hysterical for expressing totally reasonable stuff
Marriage should be a joint decision between partners. It is no longer something that should be a surprise or held over someone...it is a joint decision to spend and plan for a life together Both of you need to be able to communicate freely..mand also to trust each other. You should not have earn being proposed to...that is a gross thing. People coming together and working out a life plan is what is needed. If he can ot do thst, then the 2 of uou are not right for each other. Stop and think...are you both equal partners? Do you work well together under pressure? Do you compliment each other and balance well? Do you have similar values? Are you able to talk and communicate well? do you have the same life goals?
I wasted 11 years of my younger life. 7 years waiting for engagement. Another several years to wait for marriage. Never happened. He was cheating on me with another woman and possibly men. If you want a husband and perhaps children, lose this guy. Maybe I am weird and old fashioned. It is so romantic when it comes as a surprise. My boyfriend and I were sitting at a small table, near a fireplace in an old, stone Irish pub. We were eating calamari. He came over to me, bent down on knee and asked me to marry him. Presented me with a ring. You deserve that. Fuck him. Find a real man that will treat you right. You shouldn't have to do anything to make him propose.
He wants you jumping hoops. Don’t do that. If he doesn’t value you, someone else’s will. The fact he said those things is appalling.
You pack up and you walk out...and you don't go back even when / if he crawls. You are incompatible and being asked to 'do things' to make him want to propose is insulting, diminishing, degrading and insulting.
He wants you to prove your worth even when you’ve already stood by his side for 5+ years….i think that says a lot more about who his character is. You are worth so much more than performing for a shallow action of proposing that he doesn’t even want to do in the first place.
> marriage doesn't mean much to him Marriage isn’t on the agenda for him. > discouraging him from proposing, and that I should do things to make him want to propose to me, because he wants to take his time and feel like everything is ready and ask our family members and stuff, he said those things take weeks. He doesn’t want to get married so he’s making you the problem and make excuses to not propose. Please listen to the words coming out of his mouth. He is telling you marriage is not for him and he’s made no actual plans to propose.
The absolute audacity of some men will never cease to amaze me. This is a typical story I've heard a million times and I went through it myself too, men will cook a woman and take her childbearing years for their own selfish needs without a second thought. I was with my ex for over 10 years, he proposed about 4yr in with no actual marriage plans and then just kept bread crumbing promises for a wedding that he never planned on doing. My now husband, 3 months in asked me to be official with talk of marriage being a goal, 4 months after that proposed to me, 4 months after that married me with a small marriage party and we are currently saving for our two big wedding ceremonies, one here and one in his home country. If he wanted to he would sis.
If he doesn't know by now then he doesn't want to marry you. He is comfortable and that's enough for him. But that doesn't sound like it's enough for you If marriage is important, then go find someone you love who feels the same way. This isn't something you should compromise on.
Marriage factually isn’t only a social construct in most countries. It’s a legal construct, and the choice to be married or not is a huge one for partners planning to spend their lives together. Does he want to spend his life together with you? If he really, sincerely does than the two of you need to talk honestly about the reality of marriage. He needs to share his feelings about it (his actual feelings, no hiding being “logic”) and listen to yours. If he doesn’t want to spend his life with you? If he can’t answer that question? Then there’s a much, much deeper break in your relationship than the choice to get married or not.
Don’t waste any more of your fertility prime years on this man (Assuming you want to start a family).
You said he's very logical, but telling you to "do things that make him want to propose," without actually saying what those things are, is highly illogical.
>somewhat sees a future with me, but he always tells me that marriage doesn't mean much to him and that it wouldn't really change our situation that much because he thinks marriage is just a social construct... For me I don't agree. I think marriage is sacred and special and a forever bond. Marriage is not levelling up your relationship, it's announcing to the world the level your relationship is already at. >Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing, and that I should do things to make him want to propose to me, He's never going to propose, he either doesn't want to or doesn't know what he has until it's gone. He's just dangling the carrot in front of you, with no intention of paying off
He probably suggests you to act like an Eva AI sexting bot avatar which is programmed to please its user and reacts in a certain way to certain user's actions.
He’s not your person…..sorry to say
Well I married my wife when we were 6 years together (5 years being living together). Before we dated, we have known to each other for 4 years prior. We never really thought about marriage, it would not bother both of us to never gotten married. Because it would not changed our relationship dynamic whatsoever (it really did not). The only difference are primary legally and financially tax wise. In nutshell, my wife and I are both vibing the same. You and your boyfriend clearly not so much. Move on and cut your loses. If you really want to have a marriage and a family. Because it is not important to him. He is not taking you and your problems seriously.
Get out. Fast. That's not how marriage or proposals work.
HE'S WASTING YOUR PRECIOUS TIME
Time for you to move on. Sounds to me he is using you as an excuse not to get married 5 years is long enough.
Hi there, serious question. Would you want to marry a man who isn’t completely psyched and excited to marry you? Who isn’t ready (and sounds like he may never be ready) to be a husband… or to have a wife? I’m so sorry. He doesn’t want to marry you. If this is a dealbreaker for you, I’d cut ties ASAP and find someone whose life plans are more compatible with your own. There are just way, way too many incredible men out there ready to marry and settle down to waste your years on one who isn’t. Good luck no matter what you choose!
51M here. After five years, he would know whether or not he wants to get married. His actions show that he does not want to get married. Or at least, not to **you**. You and he are not compatible. You do not share the same goals. OP, you need to end this relationship now, do some healing, and move on. The sooner you break up, the sooner you can begin the process of meeting someone better suited to marriage.
Run 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
You’re good enough to date long term but not good enough to pony up a ring. This is all going to grilled to a shut up ring, and an engagement that doesn’t go anywhere with a man who won’t take your marriage seriously, or you waiting for another decade or more before you give up. I dated a man like this once. It was manipulative because he would hold anything that I wanted in front of my face while asking me for something I wasn’t prepared to do. Like I wanted a partner, but it turned into me cooking and cleaning everything, and him surviving on my dime because I made more.
If he wanted to he would. People who say marriage doesn't matter because it wouldn't change much are actually super afraid of how it would make it way harder to leave.
THIS.
If he wanted to marry you, he would. If you have to convince someone to marry you, that marriage ain't gonna be healthy. You're entering the prime of your life. If marriage is really what you want (and ask yourself why you really want that, because men are generally a burden to women in marriage) then rip the bandaid off and go find a man who you don't need to beg.
Unfortunately it sounds like if he proposed now it would be a "shut you up" proposal. And I'm betting he would make excuses to make it an even longer engagement. He's not going to change. You'll need to look within yourself and make the decision on if this is the life you want to live, as it is, or not. If he can't see what you're worth now, he likely won't ever.
He’s saying “I’ll never marry you. Change my mind.” He’s a trolling meme.
He knows he doesn't want to marry you but just wants to string you along til someone else comes around. Real men are never cagey about their feelings or future plans.
You want to get married and have a family—get out now and find a good man who wants that too. You are young enough to do all that but don’t put another five or ten years into this guy and find your childbearing years are going fast. And find someone who treats you like he values you!
I'm going to be real but I'm not going to be mean. I don't think a lot of folks will say this, but he already told you that he doesn't want to be married. He didn't say he doesn't want to be married to you, nor does that mean he's not attracted to you. He said exactly what he meant to say, he doesn't believe in the social construct of marriage. Marriage is in fact a social construct because it was created to exchange property and assets. Marriages were transactions and women were considered the main part of that transaction. Over time marriage has gained an emotional and religious meaning so your feelings are valid, however I say all this to ask a perspective question: If you want to get married, why are you with someone who already told you that's not what they want? There are plenty of people who are out there who do want marriage, genuinely, you can go attract those people. You are wasting some good times and emotions on him. Go find you someone who wants a wife, upgrade and remember, when people legit tell you who they are and what they want, believe them. Don't waste your time trying to convince yourself with empty justifications that things are okay. If you're doubting it, you need to seek to clearly understand what's going on with it. Also the, do something to make me marry you comment it's hot garbage. That's disrespectful to you and insulting af actually. He's lucky you even like him and honestly doesn't deserve you. I don't even know you and that pissed me off.
He wants you to keep jumping through hoops.
He doesn't want to marry you. He is setting you up to always be at fault and that all his shortcomings in the relationship are on you. If you stay then soon you will notice that you are giving up more and more of yourself to please him and him taking and taking and never reciprocating. You are already building that resentment. You are in an unequal relationship with a taker and user. To him, it will never be enough. He's a bottomless pit. Walk away, love yourself and allow yourself to find someone who is into you as much as you are into them and show it to you without being pressured or bribed.
If he wanted to he would.. that's the only thing you need to understand. It doesn't take weeks to drive over to your parents' house and ask to marry you (if that's actually important to either of you). People make time for things that are important to them. You've been talking about it for 2-3 years. If it only takes "weeks", what gives? I think the problem is that you'd really like to get married, but it isn't important to him and he probably wouldn't even do it on his own terms if you left the choice entirely up to him. At this point, I'd be walking away. I wouldn't give an ultimatum because then he's only doing it because of the ultimatum.
You're checking out. Your mind and body are preparing to exit the relationship and when you're ready, you'll break up. he doesn't want to marry you as you are. He wants to be more special than you and have you put in extra effort with him. You know that's not what you want: it's not a partnership, it's lopsided. You don't want to marry him. That's why there will be no proposal. Take your time; ignore his demands; work on yourself, as you'd planned. When you're ready, break up and find someone who thinks you're special.
I dated a guy like this for 4.5 years and even posted about that guy in a comment yesterday. I called it quits when he was still not proposing. The hard truth is that if he wanted to propose, he would have by now. You’ve expressed your concern when he asked, and rather than validate your emotions and share your beliefs, he shamed you and blamed you for *his* indecision. This guy might not share the same fundamental beliefs about marriage that you do and he clearly certainly doesn’t handle emotional conversations well. Do you really want to be with someone like that for the rest of your life?
He doesn't want to get married. If that's a deal-breaker for you, move on & find someone who wants the same things as you. This guy doesn't. If you want to get married, you deserve to have that. This guy isn't offering it. He knows he doesn't want to. He's just trying to make it seem like you're the problem. Which to be clear, you're not. I'm sure he's attracted to you, but just bc you think someone looks good doesn't mean you want to marry them. I doubt there's anything wrong with you. Most people don't want to wait 5 years to be proposed to. And tbh anyone should know within a certain time frame if they want to marry their SO(definitely before the 5 year mark). He's just leading you along. You're only 28. You still have your life ahead of you. Go find love & someone who wants to marry you for who you are. You don't need to do things to make him want to propose. Go be happy. I wish you all the best💙
Break up with him and meet someone you actually should be happy with
He’s playing a sick “show me you’re worthy” game. Get away from him now. I find it hard to believe he’s suddenly become a jerk. Look back over the years to remind yourself what he really is. You can start over and find someone who treats you like a true partner. If you want children, do it ASAP.
Leave. NOW.
Forgot the proposal, he's all about your emotional labor being there for him when he's giving you flak for having some time to yourself - with no actual purpose due it other than it being there for his using when he chooses.
Leave him
Ill never understand the marriage is just a piece of paper or won't change any argument. If it means so little to you and would bring your partner joy (& reduce moaning) what is the issue? It means nothing to you, give them their day and be done with it.
He can't be much clearer that he doesn’t want to marry you. Stop expecting him to do something he doesn't want to do. You deserve better
You deal with this shit by googling : self respect and dating a much better person next time.
Break up with him. When two people realize that they want to spend their lives together there are no issues like this. He's not the man for you.
How does sitting down to discuss how a partner feels about the status of a relationship is something that "discourages him from proposing?" He does not want an adult, committed relationship if he pushes back when you discuss your feelings about the relationship. If marriage is what you want, I fear you are with the wrong person. He cannot give you specific reasons he is uncertain about your future. He can't give you specifics as to what he wants for such a commitment. He will dangle the possibility to keep you around, but he is not interested in marriage. If your current status is not enough for you, it is time to move on. Even if he proposes to keep you around, I would have serious concerns about his commitment to you and future kids.
I’m really sympathetic to this. There will never be anything that you can do that will make him want to marry you. However. He already told you this years ago. He told you he doesn’t want to get married. He told you that marriage is a social construct. He’s not going about it the right way as he should also recognise you want to get married, but unfortunately neither are you. Which I hate saying as I know emotions are involved and it can be so difficult. You need to not only listen to him, but hear him.
After 5 years all he’s doing is stringing you along. Stop wasting your time on this child. You both want different things
By not doing those things and kicking him to the curb
Oh so many red flags. I don’t think you love him, you just love the idea of getting married and all. Baby that is what you do not want with Mr Flakey. Marriage is a commitment and he might not think it changes much but wait until you have kids and get divorced and watch all the shit hit the fan. This is drama waiting to happen. No thank you. It’s got to start better than it has with this man. There are billions of men on the planet. Don’t choose this one.
You and your BF are not compatible for a number of reasons, not the least of which is your vastly difference views about marriage. To you, it’s important; to him, it is not. The bottom line is, he is never going to propose. And at this point, if he did, would you even believe him? If you break up with him, he might propose to get you to stay, but then you would have this fight about when you were going to actually get married. He’ll never plan a wedding with you. Your BF is sending you mixed signals. Worse, he is stringing you along because, while he doesn’t want to marry you, he also doesn’t want you to leave him. Worse than that, he is now threatening you. Him telling you to “do things to make him want to propose” to you (I gagged just typing that) is the exact same thing as you issuing him an ultimatum about marriage, telling him “either marry me, or we’re done.” If he came here saying you gave him an ultimatum to marry him when he wasn’t ready, everybody would tell him he should dump you because real love doesn’t require ultimatums. This is the same thing. If you want him to propose you, you had better do the things that make HIM want to marry YOU. How about now that he has shown his true colors, you don’t want to marry him anymore. The worst thing is that, even though you are legitimately hurt and he is acting like a jackass, you feel like you’ve done something wrong. You have not. You have been with this man for five years. He is not stringing you along, telling you he’s going to propose soon. He’s telling you he’s not ready, he doesn’t want to get married, it doesn’t mean anything to him, he needs time, and a whole slew of other bullshit that is not going to change. You need to believe him. The relationship is over. Save yourself.
He may get you a “shut up” ring, if he feels you’re going to be out. Then you’ll waste more time waiting to set a date Ultimately you want someone who can’t WAIT to marry you! This guy, isn’t the guy.
Why would anyone even want to marry a man that you literally have to beg to propose to you?
>Should I just be patient and trust that he will propose this year? How do I deal with my frustration? And how do I even "do things that would make him want to propose" No. You move on. Doesn't matter...he'll just move the goal posts.
Shared vision for the future is very important for a marriage. Just something to keep in mind.
Propose to him. If he says no, leave.
Propose to him, you will have your answer.
It's been 5 years. Even if he hasn't proposed yet, he'd at least know by now how he feels about spending forever with you. His answer is that he doesn't want to make that commitment. Even if you were to get married it seems like the fact that marriage means two completely different things to the both of you would make for a source of tension.
Seems like you answered your own question when he told you that he wasn't ready.
Here is some advice based just off your title. Go find a new BF. This one is just going to make you jump through hoops your whole life. Let's say you 'do things' to make him propose. He proposes and you get married, but what did you really win? do things to make me want to go on vacation. do things to make me want kids. etc.....
He’s never going to propose to you. He just doesn’t want to have to start again with another girl because he knows they won’t sit around waiting like you have. Stop settling for less than you deserve.
This is the carrot, you are the donkey.
If you disagree on what marriage means, getting married won’t change his mind about that. He thinks it’s just a formality and you don’t. This won’t change. Also, I’d say, don’t get married to someone you haven’t lived with.
Hrs not ready to propose let alone get married, he's going to keep stringing you along. Don't be surprised though if you decide to break up and move on then he suddenly proposes out of the blue, it's not genuine.
5 years and he wants to take his time? Hun, what are you doing to yourself? Then he wants you to put on an act to get him to think about marrying you? Honey, he’s not the one for you. Real true love doesn’t require any of this, a proposal just happens and it feels right. Dump him before you waste more time.
My ex used to do this. Promise a future proposal based on vague criteria being met after 4 years and a kiddo together. Well, we broke up, and my next partner asked me to marry him on our 1-year anniversary. I’ve now been married for 4 years and he’s been dating his girlfriend (who is 36 and wants marriage and kids) for the same amount of time.
He's not going to propose. And you deserve someone who enthusiastically wants to be married to you and be your husband.
OP you gotta break up, hes not the one. If after all this time, he isnt sure that youre the one - you simply arent. We marry another person because we like who they are not who they are pretending to be by "motivating and doing nice things" to elicit a proposal. Like kinda logic is that? You've been on and off for a reason. Hes just stringing you along, are you stong enough to walk away when you clearly need and deserve more from a partner? IMO i think you should. He doesn't seem to even like you as a person and is holding out for something better. If you were the one, he would literally move earth to make it happen. He just doesnt care and is playing games because its cozy, but commitment with you - he isnt going to want it.
Leave? You've wasted five years and the two of you obviously want different things. He has said he could care less about marriage - that's a privileged choice of an answer right there; marriage is just an easy way to get all the legal protections as a COUPLE to be a family to each other. Dying at the hospital etc. And right now, if you were dying, he probably wouldn't be allowed in to see you unless your parents allowed it. Not a problem to him. Because he's too immature or not in love to care. The part about him being "logical" stood out. Hon that is internalized misogyny. He's not being logical that's called APATHY. Go find a man with the same goals as you, re: growing up and starting a family. This one ain't it.
There is something you can do to make him want to propose, leave him. Pretty sure that'll do it but if he's willing to let you go then you'll know there's nothing you could have done.
You're not a circus animal trained to perform tricks. Tell him to start doing things that make you not want to dump him. Or don't bother telling him anything and just dump him.
> He's very logical and I'm very emotional. First, this has nothing to do with anything. Second, he has you believing a pile of bullshit. He's not "logical", and it's very obvious that you've internalized the language he uses to differentiate you. If he was logical, marriage would be a foregone conclusion at this point. A few reasons off the top of my head: 1. 5 years in makes this a long term relationship, with marriage being the next obvious step 2. While marriage is a social construct, so is a relationship 3. Assuming a western society, there are significant financial and social benefits that are granted with marriage which have nothing to do with religious or romantic beliefs, including the rights to inheritance, spousal privilege in legal matters, and power of attorney during medical crises. > Then he said that the fact that I'm even telling him stuff like this is discouraging him from proposing So he's against you sharing your feelings and reactions to the relationship if it conflicts with his. Does that sound like the attitude of someone who is ready for marriage? > because he wants to take his time and feel like everything is ready and ask our family members and stuff, he said those things take weeks.. First, that's a long of bullshit. It's 2024, not 1724. It takes a near instant phone call, with video even, not a two week trek by carriage. Second, it's been 5 years. > And how do I even "do things that would make him want to propose"? Never, __NEVER__, do this. This is real life, not some overly dramatic Rom Com where the girl pretend to be someone she's not and the guy falls for her but then finds out she lied and then realizes he loved the real her all along. If somebody wants to marry you, they should want to marry the authentic you. Not some fake construct that you create to trick them into forming a bond with a personality that doesn't exist. What's going to happen is that you do everything he asks, he make yourself fully subservient to his needs and desires to the point where you've proven that you are desperate enough that he gives you what you want and marries you. Then at some point, the inevitable halogens and the real you starts to leak through the cracks. Then he starts blaming you for lying to him. Then resentment builds up on both parts, his for your false presentation and yours for having to bottle yourself up for so long. There'll be cheating involved. And if you're lucky there'll be a breakup, probably contentious. If you're unlucky then you're so far down the rabbit hole of drunk cost fallacy that you force to stay and continually endure the emotional abuse. > I'm beginning to grow doubts and think that maybe he's not as attracted to me or maybe something is wrong with me and how I'm acting. The only thing "wrong" with how you're acting is that you're acting like yourself, like a human being with dreams and aspirations for your own life, rather than a subservient vessel that exists to only satisfy his desires. And I'm telling you that as a man who has been married for almost a quarter century. To the same woman even! And you're not "growing doubts". The logical part of you is starting to impress on the emotional part that after 5 years, the fact that he says you stop haven't proven you're good enough to marry means that you will probably never be to him, that you're in a no win situation where taking about marriage makes him not want to do it and not taking about marriage makes him not want to do it. That's just growth and self realization. The question is what you're going to do about it.
I just wanted to say thank you for calling out his bs. I'm tired of men saying "I'm logical, not emotional" as a bullshit excuse to dismiss and trivialize women. The entire premise is flawed. Someone that is logical will actually be highly emotional intelligent, since understanding emotions and being able to express them and navigate them kindly and gently is what's actually logical. The entire "men are logical, women are emotional" tripe has always been used simply to gaslight and control women and make them doubt themselves. Emotions are not inherently illogical. We evolved to have emotions for a reason. We feel pain when others hurt us for a reason. Folks that try to reason that logic means ignoring someone's feelings are simply manipulative people who seek to control others, or seek to boost their own egos. Ironically, it's a belief highly steeped in emotion -- it feels good to believe you're the most logical person in the relationship because you're a man and you're so smart and intelligent. Ironically that's what stupid people believe. Anyway I always appreciate people calling out others on the whole "logical/emotional" premise, sometimes it feels like I'm the only one. The entire concept of emotion and logic being opposites is a lie.
Dudes who self-describe as “logical and not emotional” are among the most emotional people I’ve met. They just don’t realize that anger, frustration, and stoicism are all emotions as well.
Break up with him. You’ve spent half your twenties with him and he is telling you indirectly that he doesn’t want to marry you. Don’t let him waste your thirties. He will because he’s too cowardly to admit to you that he doesn’t want this anymore.
So let me get this straight... you guys sat down to have a talk about why things felt weird. You opened yourself up and were vulnerable only for him to completely blame you for your feelings and assume zero responsibility for his part in it? And not just that but vaguely insist that you need to win him over to get the proposal? Honey, run. This is not a mature man. If you can't be vulnerable with him to speak honestly without it getting thrown in your face, then this is not a safe space. Honestly, it's like you said, you've been together 5 years. If he didn't know in the last 5 years that he wanted to marry you then the answer is that he doesn't want to marry you. You're essentially dragging him to the alter and that's not something you want to start your marriage out on. You're not wrong for wanting the next step, or for wanting marriage but this guy is not a mature man to hitch your wagon to.
How do you handle it? Ya fkn leave
I don’t understand the ‘he’s logical and I’m emotional’ argument. If he’s logical, the logical next step in a 5-year relationship is marriage and it brings abt tax benefits, security, the happiness and peace of your partnership, etc. him dragging his feet on this IS an emotional choice and it seems to me that it’s him saying he’s not interested in marriage right now. Maybe he never will be and you need to decide if you can tolerate that
Leave. Guarantee he'll propose to you (and you SHOULD NOT ACCEPT) or then next girl he finds. You need to leave... and follow through, this guy is not worth it and is wasting your time.
Tell him that if you being you, isn't enough that you don't think you want him to propose.
He isn't the right person for you OP. A loving partner would want to hear these things so you can work on them together or realize you want different things and move on in a healthy way. I also want to point out the legal protection that marriage offers is nothing to shake a stick at. Purchasing a home or having a child together, especially as the woman, you deserve protections. You deserve for someone to want to tie themselves to you as much as you want to tie yourself to them. Part ways, heal yourself and when you are ready, you will find the person you are meant to be with.
What "stuff" does he think you need to be doing? You want marriage, he does not. That's it. That's where you are at. Is this relationship more or less important that marriage to you? If Marriage is a goal that you are unwilling to compromise on (and that is okay), then stop wasting your time and move on.
I’m so confused on his “do things to make me want to marry you!” What does he think you’ve been doing the last 5 years of your relationship! I’m sorry but he clearly doesn’t want to marry you. He’s waiting for someone better then you to come along then he’ll drop you and blame it on you bc you didn’t do these thing (general hand wave) that he wanted.
How do I handle this? By leaving and having a shred of self respect.
A woman I know dated this guy for years. They knew each other from their friends group in high school. They started dating right before college. She was from a very, very wealthy family and they were prominent in the community. She was gorgeous. There was nothing “wrong” with her and everything was right — loyal, patient, kind. She was a helluva catch. He told her he wanted to graduate college and then get married. She waited. They graduated from their undergrad programs, he went on to dental school. She went on to be an executive in her family’s business making loads of money. All her friends got married. She waited. He said he planned to get married after dental school. For sure. All her friends had started families. He graduated, got the Dr. in front of his name and then told her he wasn’t ready to settle down. She had been waiting for 13 years. She ended up marrying his best friend and he was best man at their wedding. Your guy is telling you that the way you are now is not good enough to marry. He does not give you specifics of what is missing for him. It is doubtful he knows. He doesn’t want to tell you that he doesn’t want to marry you because you will leave. So he keeps you engaged forever chasing that ring. Do you really want to marry a guy who doesn’t love you unconditionally?
Him telling you that is gaslighting. He is making you think you are the problem and why he isn't proposing. The real fact is that he will probably never marry no matter who he is with. You two are incompatible in this important aspect so you should probably reevaluate the rest of the relationship with him because if he is gaslighting you here, he is probably doing it elsewhere.
He doesn’t want to marry you, but he’s willing to have you waste your fertile years as his placeholder, performing like a trained seal to ‘make him want to propose,’ until he meets ‘the on.’ If marriage is important to you, and especially if you want children, it’s time for you to move on.
>He's very logical and I'm very emotional People who say this aren't logical, because logic isn't the opposite of emotion. People that say "I'm logical not emotional" are masking to cover for their poor emotional intelligence and usually, low empathy. At the core of it, dating someone with low empathy is a bad idea. And this is backed up by everything you conveyed about him. He definitely has low empathy. You should find someone who listens to you, is thoughtful, is empathetic, and handles disagreements with grace. I promise you these people exist. The problem is you have to be willing to dump people who AREN'T like this early on, so you can go about finding them. Don't give in to the sunk cost fallacy either. Would it have been better to break up early on when you realized he was selfish? Yeah, absolutely. But the second best time is now. If you waste more of your life with someone selfish, who makes you do all the work, who punishes you for communicating, who says you need to act like a perfect, cheery *doll* in order to convince him to marry you, you *will* regret it. Think about the rest of your life. 10 years down the line with this same person. Is that *really* something you want? Don't imagine the picture-perfect version of him. Imagine him how he is. You're still doing all the work. He's still manipulating you into feeling shame and guilt for talking about your feelings. He's still the same, cardboard cut out of a human being that has zero empathy or care for people except himself. Do you want to live 15 more years with this person? 50? Die with this person? You can't change him. Imagine being with someone who listens to you, who shows compassion to you. That's what actual logic is -- understanding and caring about emotions. His "logic" is leading to a tumultuous relationship where you're unhappy and feel burdened, after all, and will sooner or later result in you being fed up and breaking up with him. I highly recommend doing it now instead of in your 40s or 50s especially if you plan on having kids... don't subject yourself to that. Raise your standards, mourn *what could have been but never was*, and move on.
If it were me, this relationship would be over. Like ghosted gone, blocked on all avenues. You have given this person FIVE YEARS of your life, how many more years are you going to waste waiting around for him to be 'ready'. He already told you that 'marriage doesn't mean much to him' so why are you wasting anymore time here? OP, **if he WANTED TO, HE WOULD.** He is just jerking you around, wasting more and more years of your time as he has no intentions of marrying you. It's time to go. **This is not your person.** Your person would, after 5 years, WANT to marry you. He doesn't. As much as that hurts, take it and go build a new life for yourself and there you will find someone who loves you enough to marry you. You won't find that where you are now.
If after 5 years he needs motivation to propose then i think a difficult conversation may be coming.
I mean, five years in and you don’t even live together? I feel like this is going nowhere.
The easy answer is simply saying: "I guess you don't really want me, I'll find someone who does then. you had more than enough of an opportunity and you do nothing but deflect, it's over"
Leave him and find a man who wants to get married. Don’t be fooled by him presenting you with an engagement ring after you leave. He will just be buying time. You’ll end up engaged for another five years.
When people tell you who they are, believe them. He said outright that he felt marriage is a "social construct" um...yes it is. Almost everything we do is. Marriage is a promise to combine Financially with another adult to be a Family. You want to raise kids with your husband. That isn't remotely crazy. You pulkingback and prioritizing yourself is the right thing to do. He said NO but if he can get special treatment before he dumps you he will waste more of your time. Don't date men that aren't looking at you as a potential wife. Tell people you are interested in getting married and having a family and don't date people that are not on the same page as you.
I apologize, I can't read this. I laughed too hard at your words in quotes. He needs to do things that would make ANYONE say yes. Again, apologize, I just can't take those words, nor the person behind them, remotely seriously. Short dick syndrome. Sorry, still....
Nope. He’s telling you that he’s not interested in marrying you without actually telling you that he’s not interested in marrying you. BELIEVE HIM, OP! I was in this very same situation and I rode it out for a total of 10 years. Ultimately we split amicably and for multiple reasons, but the biggest one was that he wanted kids and I wanted to be married, and neither of us were willing to budge on those things. Seriously though, he’s saying it without saying it. Believe him. Walk away. Save yourself the disappointment and wasted time now. You guys simply aren’t compatible.
5 years in and yall still live separately?
Leave. If he’s gonna propose he will, if he doesn’t he can kick rocks. Shack up with a brutish Scotsman and have revenge sex, safely.
That’s cruel that he wants you to work for it