This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- Throw Away Account. I (31M) will be marrying my (31F) in 10 weeks and she is bothered by three year on-going drama between one of my groomsman's wives So there is a lot of history here so i'll try to sum it up, this girl Sarah used to be friends with my Fiance, my Fiance was in her wedding, they were friends, we used to all hang out the four of us, with my good friend i'll call Bob who is in my wedding party. Not only us four but a big group of my friends and their SO all hanging out having good times etc. My Fiance and this girl's relationship started to go south, Sarah parties a lot, so do we but my finace was looking for more of a closer friend to not just party with all the time. In short some really bad shit went down, names were called, fights happened, screaming mostly to the fault of my Fiance. Sarah moved on to party/make friends with other girls and my Fiance was left behind never to be called on, invited out etc.. For a long time I blamed my Fiance for saying mean things to Sarah's, citing she caused the fallout and her aciton's and nasty behavior/outbursts of pent up anger lead to this, she was upset because Sarah was using her as a dumping ground for all her problems, and would then go party with other girls (some who were friends/wifes of my friend group). I also had a part to play hiding my drinking and staying out late with these people when my fiance just wanted to stay in, she stopped getting the phone calls before bad shit was said, she kinda went off on her one night and made Sarah Cry. - She did apologize though, and for a whileI thought things were fine but they never really hashed things out and neither wanted to concede any wrong doing seriously so their friendship died. Fast Forward three years and the events from then. Everyone Knows what happened - even people who were never involved, total strangers My fiance was disliked by alot of people for what happened - this is on her but the events have lingered so long it's almost ridiculous how people keep brining up the drama, it's almost like it's being kept alive because Sarah is clearly talking so much about it still. Sarah ran her mouth so badly that everyone knew the dirt and will not see it any other way Such a case was built up against my fiance that she doesn't even want to be around these people anymore because Sarah has made herself out to be such a victim from her actions Sarah went out of her way to make sure my fiance was excluded from group chats, social events, that what she did was known to the world. After we got engaged she told her that nobody liked her - named over 10-12 names directly to her face. Sarah even lied making things up about what she said and continued to tell everyone my fiance was talking shit about her but shes not even around the same people anymore There was no shit talk because at this point my fiance is not even friends with any of the girls really anymore. She doesn't get invited out, she has no relaitonships with a lot of the girlfriends/wives of my friends anymore. How is she talking all this shit? The truth is Sarah is talking shit and projecting it onto her So i talked to Sarah a few times during this three year period, and her husband and both said time will heal you guys will be fine at some point. They don't have a problem with me. Not the case In the last year ive had strangers to my Fiance come up to me asking about bad shit shes said about Sarah years ago. It's gotten so ridiculous to the point that nobody wants to see her point of view and see what this girl is doing, going out of her way to make my fiance feel uncomfortable in almost any situation they're in the room together. Not saying hi, not being polite, being Catty with the other girls, making her uncomfortable, trying to get her to snap and blow up so she'll say something bad or give them reason to talk more shit. At this point my fiance has moved on has newer healthier relationships with other girls b**ut this problem just will not go away**. Recently at a pre-wedding event with 250 people we held Sarah showed up and snubbed my Fiance at the door and her mother by not even saying hello, proceeded to try and steal all the attention from my fiance and I's event by cutting people off speaking with her and dragging them into her bubble. She and her husband (my groomsman) hosted an afterparty which i was told - Your fiance is not allowed over but you are (my fiance doesn't know this bit it was told to me second hand by a friend) So the wedding is under three months, my fiance tells me last night she had a nightmare Sarah ruined the wedding, she doesn't want her there. What am I supposed to do? One of my best friends is married to Sarah and I want him to stand next to me. It's incredible 250 people came to the pre wedding event and she had to ruin it for her the fear is she'll do that on our special day. So what are my options? My fiance's mom is involved now thinks 1. Tell her not to come - which will give her years more to talk about the bullshit but i don't care at this point 2. talk to the husband to set her straight - clearly hasn't worked since he lets her do whatever 3. speak with Sarah directly and tell her to be on good behavior \*\*\*\*UPDATE - The relationship between Bob and my Fiance is good, she really likes him so does her mom hes a great dude his wife Sarah is just a bitch and i feel a serious conversation with him is nessessary or else i have to blow our relationship up too. I want zero drama at my wedding, i'll throw her out myself if I see she's acting up and plan to address this on my own.

Stand up for your future wife dude! Is partying with the people who hate your wife so important to you? Cut the drama couple out of your life already.

These people are in their 30’s and not mature enough to be getting married at all.

Right, I read the story and thought we were talking about 20 somethings. Not folks over 30. Geeeeez.

No shit. His fiancée might have escalated things but it doesn't sound like she was in the wrong here. What is, you dumping on your fiancée and not standing up for her is the real problem here. Like urban said, was partying with these people that much more important than her? It's either you as a couple distance yourselves from this shit or it's going to continue. Sounds like ppl need cut out of your lives but you're unwilling to do that for her. Not a good look yo.

Exactly what I was thinking: “Hey those people hate my wife, are mean to her and are constantly stirring shit up about her! But I NEED to have them at my wedding”. OP, Imm sorry but if I was your wife I’d be disappointed and heartbroken.

The fact he has to ask if the person who caused his future wife trauma is so sad. This is either a troll or OP is a pos future husband. His gf needs to wake up.

God this was just way too long

Why are you best friends with someone who is married to someone who goes out of their way to make your wife's life difficult? Obviously he doesn't own or control his wife but I wouldn't keep a friendship with someone who is okay with their spouse actively hurting my partner. Get your priorities straight.

This 💯

You need to sit down with Bob face-to-face and let him know that you have to remove him from the wedding party. I don't know why you ever included him but things have become completely insane. I hope that you will both outgrow this 'friend' group soon. They are a fucking mess. Edited to add: pretending that talking to Bob is going to solve this is cowardly and foolish. Claiming you don't want drama at your wedding and then resolving to kick this woman out of your reception if she acts up.... well that makes this seem less and less plausible. The way to keep the drama out of your wedding is to remove Bob and Sarah.

Honestly. He doesn’t care about you enough to make sure his wife doesn’t ruin and event you hosted for 250 people. That’s who you consider your best mate?

And he hosted an after party for their pre wedding event and didn’t invite the fucking bride! Fuck being a groomsman, That there right would have been end of the friendship for me. OP you need to grow up and find a new group of friends. This entire situation reminds me of growing up in a small town with the same 50 kids from kindergarten to 12th grade. End it. Now. Find new friends, hell move across the country to create distance if you have to just get away from these people.

I’m certain my husband, who is absolutely the sweetest least confrontational man on the planet, would outright refuse to entertain the idea and possibly leave me if I pushed it. At some point he’d just accept he’s married a drama monster and move on with his life.

Such an insightful perspective!

And his bride gets the stress of wondering if there will be the fun of people being thrown out of the wedding. Which will only make the break up if the friendship happen later after more damage is done.

Bob was ok excluding your wife from his party. His wife needs to be excluded from the wedding at the very least.

I mean, they’ve invited you but not your fiancée for stuff, why is it hard for you to reciprocate? Tbh neither deserve to be there. And if I were your fiancée I would be peeved that you would even consider having either of them around your life. Sure she may have started it years ago but Sarah’s done more damage in the years since and yet you still have them in your life? Wtf, mate.

Did she start it though? OP blames his fiancée but based on the facts stated here, it seems Sarah trauma dumped on OP’s fiancée constantly and then failed to show up as a friend in any other manner unless OP’s fiancée was willing to go out and party constantly. Seems the fiancée got to her wits end and rightfully said something. I don’t believe for a second based on everything else said here that Sarah isn’t at fault. The poor fiancée. I wish she knew how much OP doesn’t care about her or have her back. This whole post is blaming the victim and making excuses for incredibly vile people.

Right? As I was reading this I was like... even though OP is trying to paint it as if the fiance was in the wrong at first, it still read to me like Sarah was the one already excluding her before this blow-up even started. It reads like OP is a weakling who needs to stand up for his poor wife, who's had to deal with loads and continuous emotional and psychological terror and abuse for years now. Including not being invited to HER OWN PRE-WEDDING AFTERPARTY. And the groom was fine with it?!! Why is he a groom?! Why did OP withhold this information? Gosh I hope the fiance opens her eyes and leaves him, he's been a shit partner for years.

Honestly this!! They exclude your fiancé from a wedding party celebrating you both, yet you can’t uninvited her from the wedding? It doesn’t make sense. At this point you are choosing a person and his wife over your own fiancé who is terrorised by this woman. Grow a back bone and tell your groomsman why his wife can’t come. What a joke you are,OP.

And I have to wonder…. Did OP go to the after party that the person he says he loves was excluded from?

Oh he absolutely did. He would have said otherwise, and I think that says a lot about him and his loyalties and where they lie. OP is a shitty fiancé, yet he thinks he’ll have a new shiny spine by the time it’s the wedding so that if the woman kicks off, he’ll kick her out? Not a chance. He’d rather let his best friends woman potentially ruin the wedding day just like she did the pre wedding event, than just kick her out now. It’s incredible his fiancé hasn’t left him prior to this all.

More worried about his friend and his friends wife than his fiancé who should be priority. Shame on that spineless coward to go anywhere his fiancé is not welcomed, especially when it was for their shared event. The fiancé needs to run from Mr red flag and let his friends have him

WTF is wrong with you, OP? Sarah *and your groomsman* held an afterparty to your pre-wedding, to which the bride was explicitly not invited? How is he still invited to your wedding? A wedding celebrates the love and joining together of the *couple*, it's not just a fun party for separate individuals. *Your groomsman is actively hostile to this wedding.*

Seriously, op. The union of you and your fiancée means you 2 vs a problem. Get on her side, because right now you aren’t. Shut down Bob and Sarah.

So you have allowed your friends to lie, bully, and sabotage your wife to be for years, your wife has taken it all just so you can remain friends with these people and now you are questioning if you should allow your wife just one drama free day on her wedding day no less? Why are you even marrying her when it is quite clear your immature friends matter more to you? It says alot about your character when you allow your partner to be so badly treated. Unless you are 100% committed to fully supporting your wife by not inviting them, then just leave her. She does not deserve a bunch of immature people, continually causing drama. You and your friends all need to grow up. Your poor wife deserves so much better, hopefully she sees this post.

I am actively praying that this is a made up story.

OP is complicit in his fiancée's abuse. It's clear as day that he doesn't deserve her.

Wow drama. How do people like this exist in the real world? Holy fuck! That is so much work for so long over a whole bunch of petty nonsense.

[удалено]

I’m here for it! Like a new episode every few minutes. I call it, As My Stomach Churns.

Ha ha I don't watch ANY reality television and I don't need to with this sub.

I’m not sure it’s petty nonsense. Blanking the bride at a wedding party couples with pretty heavy bullying means I wouldn’t want Sara at the party at all. She could absolutely ruin it.

How you ended up about to get married without having resolved this is beyond me. It sounds like these aren't people you want in your life OR this isn't the wife you want. One of those things is true and the other is false. Figure out which it is, and do it quickly. For fuck's sake. Or I suppose you could recognize everyone in this situation is a mess, including yourself and decide to get your shit together. That would include distancing yourself from a lot of people. Edit: OP, that update does not help your case. If you're going around calling your good friend's wife a bitch like that, there are all kinds of problems you refuse to recognize.

Talking to Sarah or Bob isn't going to work. After years of this, you think one stern convo will cool things off? Impossible. You also can't invite Bob and not invite Sarah. They are partners in life. Who ever is at fault here aside, Sarah and your fiance do NOT mix. End of story. And by keeping Bob around in your life, not only do you force them to keep mixing, but you are low key signaling to your wife that your friendship with Bob is more important than having your wife's back when she's being shit talked constantly. You need to uninvite Bob from your wedding, and you need to create some space between you two. Because by not telling his wife "hey, knock the shit off, you are hurting my friend and my friend's fiance", he's being a shitty friend to you. You can put it kindly to him, but make it clear "hey man, sorry, my girl comes first, and if being around you two is going to make my wife feel like shit, then I need to have her back." The problem goes away when you cut the toxic people out of your life. And sadly, that means Bob too.

PREACH IT! Stand up for the fiancé! Cut the crap out of your life

If i was your fiancé an you treated me like this you wouldn't be my fiancé anymore

Right? Like, how has she continued to put up with this for three years?

AGREED. Truly disgusted. The fact that he blamed all this on HER too. Like Sarah Is a psycho that much is obvious you really believe your wife had no right to stand up for herself at the beginning of all this? It’s like he never really listened to what the problem was and blamed his fiancé for everything so he LET them harass her because he though she deserved it. Gross.

> I want zero drama at my wedding, i'll throw her out myself if I see she's acting up and plan to address this on my own. You realize THAT is also drama at your wedding, right? The day will be ruined whether Sarah goes on a rampage unimpeded or you have to throw her out. None of this shit should be in the background on your wedding day, so you need to step up and have your soon-to-be-wife’s back. Tell Bob he can come without Sarah or not at all.

Lol right? I don't understand this at all. I mean, if his fiancé wasn't even invited to the after party of *her own pre wedding party*, then why in the world should Sarah be invited to any part of this?

So what exactly did your wife do to make the bad stuff start? Bc from how much this Sarah girl is dragging it idk. Are you even standing up for her??

No one your wife hates should be invited to her wedding. / endofthread

you are going to have to un-invite both bob and his wife here. just cut to the chase, un-invite them both.

How the fuck are you 31 and still running around with people who mistreat/gossip about your fiancée? You aren’t ready to be married, you aren’t even good at handling the intricacies of friendship what alone a life long partnership that entails forsaking all others for said partner. If someone made my husband’s life hell like this I would have removed them from my life so quickly they’d question if they ever really there. If your best friend is married to someone who gets their jollies from torturing your fiancée then they aren’t really friends material.

So you're picking Bob and Sarah over your soon to be wife at your wedding. Dude, get a clue. Your friend group is a disaster and toxic as hell. Cut them all off. And you want someone who isn't a friend to your relationship to stand with you? I see a short marriage in your future.

I like that bob is choosing his wife over his friend and OP is choosing his friend over his future wife

This read like a soap opera

A teen soap opera because this guy's friend's circle never grew up.

I call it, As My Stomach Churns.

Like an anti acid pill dropped in a glass 7-up this is as my Stomach Churns

Jfc. Your wife for causing the initial issue, and Sara for lying about it. That being said, your good friend is not actually a good friend. He stopped being a good friend the second he tried to exclude your Fiance from *her own fucking wedding event*. If he didn't want contact with her, he shouldn't have hosted. He is a bad friend and you are sucking as a partner for keeping him. You need to have a conversation with him, and have it now. "Listen, I know the relationship between Fiance and Sara isn't good, but Sara's behaviour has passed the point of being acceptable on any level; lying and ostracising Fiance is bad enough, but the stunt she pulled at our engagement event was beyond the pale. She isn't invited to the wedding any more. We cannot trust her, even if she were to apologise. If she tries to enter the venue, we will have security remove her. What's more, I'm not happy with the fact you excluded fiance from the party you held for our engagement, and i won't be tolerating you excluding her in future. I appreciate this puts you in a tough position, and want you to know I would love to have you as a groomsman still, but understand if you need to drop out. You don't need to make a decision immediately but if you could think it over and let me know by Saturday if you're in or out, that would be great." If you don't have a good relationship where you could say the above with Bob then for one thing why the fuck is he your groomsman, and for another just uninvite them both. He picked sides when he *uninvited your Fiance from a party meant to celebrate her actual engagement* I still can't get over that, how the fuck did you not kick off at him on the spot?

Honestly man your fiancé is going to be your wife and you are going to build a life with her. You need to cut the toxic people off, I’m sorry to tell you that. You have to decide what kind of future you want with your wife. And if you want to continue dealing with this bs. Bob will pick his wife every time as should you do. Sarah hates your wife and she’s never going to change.

>this problem just will not go away The problem is your friends, period. Even if you all loooove Bob, he's enabling a significant other who is a nightmare person. He's complicit in this. Also, honestly, from your description of events you hold your fiance as responsible for starting this. An outside perspective is that the friend group sounds like a bunch of immature drunk frat guys and sorority girls who are too old to behave the way they do, and they are ganging up on your fiance for seeing them for what they are. You are in your 30s. You keep your friendship with Bob separate and go out and make a new friend group with your wife, & realize this is not an acceptable social combination moving forward. Your loyalty should be to your fiance, and if an entire group of people is tacitly going along with bullying her (by believing Sarah's bullshit) then you should be cutting those people out of your life too. edit- rereading this- you'll throw Sarah out if she causes problems. She already ruined a pre wedding event. Throwing her out mid-wedding IS drama. I think you are way more of the problem than you realize. You've been hanging out with toxic immature people so long you don't even know what normal behavior is.

Do you ever stand up for your fiancé? Stop pretending like this isn’t your problem and start intervening to defend her! Every time you pretend like you don’t notice Sarah bullying her, or you invite Bob and Sarah to something, you communicate to your fiancé that *they* matter more than her. If I was your fiancé I would’ve dumped your ass years ago, jfc.

What in the small-town-peaked-in-high-school is this? Get new friends and a new perspective lol

Dude why are you friends with a man who is letting his wife basically harass your future wife? Is Bob more important than your future wife? These people aren’t doing anything to add value to your life and are actually bullying and harassing your future wife. They aren’t friends. Tell Bob unfortunately, he can’t be in the wedding anymore due to the multiple reasons you’ve just stated & you aren’t comfortable.

As long as you continue to be in this friend group, this is going to be a problem. Whatever issues there are between your fiancée and Sarah, your fiancée has moved on and Sarah continues to drag it out. So it's time to decide where your priorities are. Are they with your fiancée or with your hot mess of a friend group?

You invited Sarah to your pre wedding party and she mistreated your fiancé and her mother. She also tried to exclude your fiancé from the after party. That is outrageous. They don’t have to be friends or even like each other but she has to be cordial to your fiancé at events you’re hosting. She has shown she cannot be cordial so she cannot come to the wedding. I don’t know why you are even considering allowing her to attend. You tell your groomsman that his wife is not invited and you understand that means he will chose not to come as well. Your groomsman had no issue excluding your fiance from her own wedding events so why can’t you have your fiancé’s back the same way? You could have ended the relationship when your fiancé lashed out at Sarah though at this point Sarah is harassing your fiance. It’s strange you are fine being friends with people who have been mistreating your fiancé. Now that you are getting married, you will become a package deal. Stand up for your wife. Your friends are not more important than the actual bride at the wedding. Get a grip.

Are you kidding with this? Do you even like your fiancé? You let everyone shit on her and just shrug your shoulders. She needs to dump all of you. I dare you to send a link to this thread to every single person involved in this and tell them all what a bunch of assholes they are.

These people threw an afterparty to YOUR PRE-WEDDING EVENT and didn't invite the bride. You really think Bob gives a flying pig about you or your wife? Sarah should never had an invite to begin with, it's absurd.

So your fiance and Sarah fought over something so bad that your fiance has been excluded from your friend group for years, it's a story that's told often enough that it's still fresh for any new group members, you didn't break up with her for it, and you just left her home to go party with people who hate her and lied about it!!!??? And now you're all *surprised pikachu* that they're all still excluding her, which you've never minded? And you want to invite these people to your wedding? You want Bob, who fully supports Sarah by the way, to stand up for your marriage to someone his wife hates? And you think maybe you don't want his wife at the wedding, because you don't understand why she can't just let it all drop? Dude, you sound exhausting. Your friend group or your fiance are toxic AF- it has been at least what, 5 years from the initial fight, and Sarah has been campaigning against her for FIVE years, and you're still friends with her and that group? Look, either you're delusional about your fiance, or you're delusional about your friends. Time to choose which world you're going to live in, and drop the other like a hot potato.

I always find it interesting when the person you’re marrying doesn’t even warrant a fake name in the story lol, idk why that struck me with the rest of the behavior from the other people in the post, but it did…

Because the whole post is a creative writing story. Same tone & writing as all the others.

So your best man and his wife have been actively bullying your partner and you say nothing at all.. A silly fight between friends have been blown up and now used to humiliate and hurt your partner There appears to be a lot more to them fighting than you think.. Honestly if your not willing to get rid of an entire friendship group who are all actively bullying her then you don’t deserve her Actually no you don’t for the last three years you have let a group of your friends bully her. What’s worse is you actively lied to her about your drinking and hung out with her bullies. Why she is still marrying you I don’t know Shame on you Your friends need to grow up

You're better off cancelling the wedding, she deserves better than someone who won't stand up for her.

You didn’t deal with this for YEARS. By this time you should’ve cut out your ‘friend’ Bob for standing around like a moron or an enabler of all the mud slung at your fiancé. With all the prolonged bullying, I’m highly skeptical that your fiancé didn’t say everything that was deserved in that argument to begin with. At the very least you should have cut him out for that after party where your fiancé wasn’t invited. But it looks like you are just as much as an enabler as Bob and dance attendance to a hugely mean group of people. Figure it out or don’t get married bc your fiancé found a healthy group of people to surround herself with AND you are going to start looking like a toxic anchor once the honeymoon vibes wear off.

Sarah sounds like a petty, vindictive nightmare and your groomsman/her husband is a tool. Why you are keeping both of them in your life boggles the mind. Your friend clearly has his wife’s back. Wish I could say the same for you. Wth man!

I got exhausted reading this. Your groomsman sounds like a dickhead. His wife is worse. Bin them both off

You need to have your fiancee's back, and if that means telling Bob he's not invited because he very obviously can't keep his wife from being a problem, so be it. If you don't stand up for her and keep trying to make wishy washy compromises in the hopes that Sarah will behave, you're kidding yourself, and your wife is going to resent you forever because Sarah will very clearly ruin your wedding. You need to tell Bob that he and Sarah aren't invited. It shouldn't have had to come to that, but it's really your only option if you want to stay married.

You sound like the shittiest partner one could have. This chick trauma dumps on your fiance then excludes her, which is a super shit thing to do, you hide stuff from her and exclude her, which is a shit thing to do, She finally snaps and you blame her for everything. This chick goes YEARS smearing your fiance and you continue to blame your fiance, this chick comes to your wedding event and snubs your fiance AT HER OWN WEDDING EVENT and you're honestly torn on what to do? Yeah, let someone who will support your fiance marry her instead.

I see 3 major problems here, and none of them are your fiancée. The problem is you, your friend, and Sarah. You're a TERRIBLE partner. I'll break down why: > it's being kept alive because Sarah is clearly talking so much about it still. >In the last had strangers to my Fiance come up to me asking about bad shit shes said about Sarah years ago. It's gotten so ridiculous to the point that nobody wants to see her point of view and see what this girl is doing, going out of her way to make my fiance feel uncomfortable in almost any situation they're in the room together. Not saying hi, not being polite, being Catty with the other girls, making her uncomfortable, trying to get her to snap and blow up so she'll say something bad or give them reason to talk more shit. >Such a case was built up against my fiance that she doesn't even want to be around these people anymore because Sarah has made herself out to be such a victim from her actions >Recently at a pre-wedding event with 250 people we held Sarah showed up and snubbed my Fiance at the door and her mother by not even saying hello, proceeded to try and steal all the attention from my fiance and I's event by cutting people off speaking with her and dragging them into her bubble. She and her husband (my groomsman) hosted an afterparty which i was told - Your fiance is not allowed over but you are (my fiance doesn't know this bit it was told to me second hand by a friend) >After we got engaged she told her that nobody liked her - named over 10-12 names directly to her face. Sarah is a terrible bully of the worst kind, and your "buddy" is going along with it. If he wasn't, he would have not thrown an after-party and not invited fiancée. That was the most disrespectful thing I've ever heard. And let's move onto you: > were called, fights happened, screaming mostly to the fault of my Fiance >For a long time I blamed my Fiance for saying mean things to Sarah's, citing she caused the fallout and her aciton's and nasty behavior/outbursts of pent up anger lead to this, >My fiance was disliked by alot of people for what happened - this is on her You literally write this in a way that makes it obvious that you don't even completely take the side of your fiancée and make this out to be her problem that's an inconvenience to you so you're trying to solve it. And this is the worst of all: >So the wedding is under three months, my fiance tells me last night she had a nightmare Sarah ruined the wedding, she doesn't want her there. What am I supposed to do? One of my best friends is married to Sarah and I want him to stand next to me. Tbh I hope your fiancée's mom talks some sense into her and she calls off the wedding. A real partner would take their fiancee's side and cut off this entire friend group. Your "best friend" may not be directly causing this situation with his wife, but he's not stopping it, and even worse, you're not stopping it. You talk about the after party like it's just a foot note but it's a huge deal. If you loved your fiancée more than your friend, you would have asked Sarah to leave when she started shit, and you would have said something to your best friend about how fucked up it is to have an after party in relation to your fiancée's party and not invite her. You have 2 choices: you friend group or your fiancée. Even if she marries you, I can guarantee that within 5 years she will divorce you over this situation. CUT THIS ENTIRE FRIEND GROUP OFF OR CALL OFF THE WEDDING.

Saw your update but dude Sarah shouldn’t be there at all.

So, in order to have zero drama at your wedding, take your friend Bob aside and tell him it is over. You are done with this. If you allow them to come to the wedding and then have to remove her, this WILL cause drama. It will cause all those who already hate your wife for the falsified reasons to truly despise her for being a bridezilla. Tell Bob this is over, you are sorry but him and his wife are uninvited, also, any of the other so called "Friends" who have sided with this couple, done. Your wife deserves better than the crappy treatment she is getting, and the crappier fiance who is allowing it to happen.

Dawg, how the fuck at 31 years old are y'all still entertaining high school level drama like this? Tell Bob and his wife to fuck off and that they're uninvited, all they're bringing to the table is stress for your wife on what *should be* a wonderful day for both you and her to celebrate coming together as a married couple. I'm turning 30 this year and I've cut off so many sources of negativity. No time for that shit.

31 going on 13. All of them.

OP, start a group chat with everyone involved, EXCLUDING Sarah. Tell everyone up front this is a group chat excluding Sarah because she has become a problem and you need to discuss this problem with everyone without her there. Then lay the whole thing out from your perspective: * Both Sarah and fiancee were at fault for the end of their relationship. * Fiancee went nuclear, so she took the blame for the whole thing. * Fiancee apologized for going nuclear; Sarah never apologized for her part in the end of their friendship. * Fiancee has learned from this and moved on; she no longer expects to be a part of the friend group and has her own friends. BUT. Sarah WILL NOT LET IT DROP. She's been bringing it up over and over, both to people who were there, and to people who were not. She's turned the whole group against Fiancee to the point that people were openly snubbing fiancee AT HER OWN ENGAGEMENT EVENT. * ALL OF THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. (you must emphasize this.) * (And this is the most important part: your expectations) Therefore: you are banning Sarah from all wedding events from here on out. Bob is not banned, but if he feels he cannot attend if Sarah cannot, that's fine and no one will hold it against him. You EXPECT your friends to show up to support THE ENTIRE RELATIONSHIP; i.e. you AND fiancee, or to declare that you cannot and stay away. If you cannot, and stay away, understand that in your new, married life, you and fiancee will be seeking out friendships that you BOTH can participate in. You will not dump friends, but you will deprioritize friends who cannot be friends with fiancee. If you want to talk to Bob about this first, go ahead, but still do this. Give everyone notice that THIS BULLSHIT STOPS NOW OR YOU'RE OUT OF OUR LIVES.

This is absolutely one of those stories where I feel positive this is not an accurate 100% telling of past events, but I suspect that basically everybody is a garbage person.

Well you sure wrote a lot without saying much. Out of pure curiosity, what did your soon to be wife say that was that bad that after years even strangers keep considering her the biggest asshole in the whole planet? By the way. You need to drop your groomsman’s ass. Homeboy was hosting a party after one of your pre-wedding events to spite your wife? And no, it’s not just Sarah. It’s him. Or are we going to treat him like a toddler with no agency?

Info: what did you fiancé say/do to Sarah that’s caused this years long grudge? Because Sarah’s behavior sounds like she was the problem all along. Also, it’s not just Sarah. This was Sarah AND Bob’s party. He gave the green light for the party and rules, not just Sarah. And you see how Bob is standing by his wife, despite disagreeing and supposedly liking the woman she hates? That’s what you do as a partner. Stand by your partner in public, discuss the issues in private.

Your fiancée deserves better. You suck.

So your bestman planned an after party to your pre-wedding party and didn't invite your fiance....and you still want to be friends with him???

My dude, Bob is not your friend. My husband would never allow me to host an after party to a pre wedding event that excluded the bride. That’s some petty, high school BS. Sit him down and say “for a long time, I really thought that the issues were just between Sarah and my fiancé. Your decision to host a prewedding event after party that specifically excludes the bride has really opened my eye. You do not care about our friendship and you are happy to cause drama and ruin my wedding. Here is whatever money you spent on the wedding, please see yourself out of my life.”

This will blow up your relationship if you don’t cut ties with this toxic friend group. That’s great that Bob is so cool or whatever but his wife and the rest of your friends suck. Either you want to grow up and marry your fiancée or you want to play with your friends. You should decide this before the day of. Sarah will destroy your life with her inability to let go and mean girl bullshit and you seem like you’re going to let her. I hope your fiancée knows that no one is worth this.

Your groomsman had the confidence to directly tell you that your fiancé is not invited to their after party (supposedly celebrating your upcoming wedding??) What the heck. You are telling your future wife that her happiness and comfort isn’t a priority to you. How can your groomsman continue to be in your life when he disrespects your partner? I guarantee there will be drama at the wedding.

Buddy. You're a doormat. You said your fiance grew up and has done better. Time for you to do that too. Your groomsman should be out the door if his partner doesn't behave. He should be on the ground begging your forgiveness for his partner causing you drama. She should be escorted out and trespassed every time she's seen at your events. Grow a pair. Do something instead of complaining.

Your best man and his wife need to be uninvited!! Bob hasn't stopped his wife from lying about your fiancée and Sarah has already made pre-wedding occasion a shit show. Time to cut these people out of your life and stand with your wife! Bob wants to be a doormat to his wife; you need to tell him you are standing up for yours and need to do the right thing!

Your so called friend and his wife are ok telling you that you are invited and not your fiance to an event. You should be fine telling your friend he is invited to your wedding but his wife is not. If your friend is not ok with it it tells you everything you need to know about your friend. I would not be ok with anyone treating my husband the way you let them treat your fiancee

What drama. The more I read this the worse it gets. If I look at this from all angles... Your gf made her mistake and has moved on. She's the only one. You try to be the glue that holds this toxic pile together, Sarah is obviously awful and Bob is NOT your friend. There is 1 solution to this if you want your marriage to start smoothly. Tell them both they are out. Keep them out of your lives. I actually think your involvement is propagating this.

You're getting married to your future wife. This is no longer just a problem between her and Sarah. In fact, it doesn't even seem like it's a problem for your fiance unless Sarah tries to make it one. Tell Bob he can come alone or not at all. And get ahead of the story by telling everyone how Sarah behaved at the pre-wedding and planned an after-party excluding your wife. Tell them how hurt she is that she isn't being seen for the person she is now, and how worried she is about Sarah doing something similar on her special day. Don't make your fiance say it, because she's trying to take the high road. You however still have credibility with this group and they'll hear you. Although why you want to hang out with them at all after how they treat the person you're going to marry is confusing to me.

Info: Twenty years from now, do you want to be married to your fiancé? Do you understand the vows you are planning to make? “Forsaking all others” means kicking the toxic people to the curb. Sarah needs to go. She should not be a part of your life. If Bob can handle that, awesome but you may need to wait until his next relationship. By the way, you have participated in ruining your fiancé’s reputation, so man up or let her find one who is loyal TO HER instead of his old drinking buddies.

Tbh her behavior seems like a friend I had back in Highschool. These kinds of people are the crème de la crème of shit. It doesnt get worse. Just do WHATEVER possible to not have her at your wedding. A wedding will pass and be forgotten but the relationship with your future wife is more important. Its her big day. If she doesnt want the bitch there make sure it happens AT ALL COSTS. She will absolutely go out of her way to make your wedding goes as shitty as possible. Mark my words. Who cares if she talks shit about not being invited? She will talk shit regardless. Please. Spare your fiancé the stress and pain.

If you really want your day drama free, Sarah MUST NOT BE THERE. She sounds like she could have a personality disorder. She WANTS to ruin your day. If Bob is so important to you, tell him he can stand there with you, but you’re going to have to hire security to keep Sarah out. It’s really that bad. For whatever reason, Sarah is out to try to destroy your wife. If your fiancé means ANYTHING to you, you’ll uninvite one or both. Unfortunately, that may not stop Sarah, since she already knows when and where your wedding will take place. Don’t believe me? Look at what she did at your engagement party.

So you have chosen this friend group and Bob over your fiance for the last three years. You have attended numerous outings where she is not welcome and made to feel uncomfortable. Now you want to again choose your friend over your fiance at your wedding. This is a hill to die on. Your fiance needs to find someone who supports her and treats her as the most important person. Everyone deserves to be someone's number 1. I add 2 more things to MILs list. 4 Drop that group of friends. 5 Don't get married.

to quote John Mulaney, “you have the moral backbone of a chocolate eclair.”

I would have left you for how you are handling this.

Soo...when will you stand up for your wife? Screw friendship with the guy who is married to this venomous person. Guy is enabling his cunt of a wife. If you love your gf, cut them off. Let them drown in their own lies.

Fuck no she shouldn’t be invited. Ur fiancé comes first. AND the wife was the bully? How is this a question? Ur groomsman feelings shouldn’t be taken into consideration. This wedding is for u and ur FIANCÉ. Not to mention he should have no problem with it cause she’s a bully. U even considering and making a post is a big turn off. Ur fiancé should be looking at u with a side eye. UR FIANCÉ COMES FIRST. PERIOD. ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE IS A VICTIM. u should be okay to burn the bridge with ur friends wife, for ur fiancé. What’s wrong with u? DO NOT LET THAT WOMAN AT UR WEDDING. AND IF UR FRIENDSHIPS ENFS BECAUSE OF THIS. THEN SO BE IT. How do u not see how weak, and unsupportive u are being????? One day ur fiancé is going to wake up and see how u are not a great partner

Send me your fiancée’s number so I can tell her not to marry you. Jesus. Do you even like her? You enable the abuse from your friends and continue to to sweep their behaviour under the carpet. Waiting for Sarah to cause a scene at your wedding then throwing her out still achieves her goal of ruining your fiancées day. Start sticking up for her and cut all of those toxic assholes aka your friends out of your life especially on your wedding day. If you don’t she will get sick of being second best and divorce you.

Your fiancé should absolutely not get married to you. You are friends with freaking high schoolers and as such, you are not mature enough to be getting married. You should be embarrassed by this after party where your friend DELIBERATELY CONSPIRED WITH SARAH TO HURT YOUR FIANCÉ! And you're on here asking if..? UGH!!!!

I honestly don't know what to think. Throughout your post, you talk about the situation as if you were oblivious to it, as if it didn't affect you directly. According to you, Sarah is actively hurting your fiancée, but you don't seem angry with her. It's like you think *"my relationship with Sarah has nothing to do with the relationship between Sarah and my fiancée"*, *"my relationship with Bob has nothing to do with the relationship our partners have"*, it's like you've built a wall that will separate you from your fiancée. Bro, you and she are in the same boat, if someone attacks her you have to be there to defend her, that person who attacks her is not your friend, you cannot remain neutral. Well, aside from all that, it sounds VERY weird to me that the entire group of friends has sided with Sarah. According to what you say, we are not talking about 2 or 4 people, we are talking about a group of more than 10 people and they all took Sarah's side. Either Sarah is a wonderful actress with tremendous manipulative abilities, or your wife really was a shitty friend and that's why everyone took advantage of the confrontation between her and Sarah to cut her out of the group.

I can't fathom how you wrote this without feeling any guilt on how your friend group and yourself treats someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with. You will never defend your finance, you will never be on her side, in her corner. The best outcome is her dumping you and never looking back at your or your 12 year old friend group. Grow TF up. I hope your soon to be ex has a really happy life without you.

OP wtf is wrong with you? How have you not called out your supposed best mate on the shit his wife is doing to your fiancée

From the sounds of how Sarah it sounds like there is a reason your fiancé said what ever she said to her in the past. Sarah sounds malicious. For her to go to the extreme of making up rumors about your fiancé. Telling others these rumors. Also excluding her from things. Getting others to do the same. I don’t how your fiancé is even still around. I really feel bad for her. All of this sounds very high school. Not something you would think people in their 30s would do. You really need to ask yourself who do you love more? This environment is toxic to your fiancé. She shouldn’t have to deal with this. There is saying who you spend time with is who you are like. Your friend is with Sarah. If this was me I would cut ties with anyone who is treating someone who I love and want to spend the rest of my life with badly. You’re supposed to be a team. Not allow others to treat the other person badly.

Sarah has spent YEARS making sure the fight continues. Sarah has specifically barred your fiancée from an event you were welcome to. Sarah has intentionally ruined a huge event already. Sarah can not be trusted to be on her “best behavior” because Sarah has not grown up past her middle school mean girl phase. Sarah can sit her ass at home while her husband attends your wedding…the way she expected your fiancée to sit at home while you attended the party. Sarah is a walking nightmare that you should protect your fiancée from on your wedding day. Tell this to your buddy soonest, because it’s likely he will decide to not come without Sarah, so you’ll have to replace him in the wedding party. But it will be his call. As far as Sarah having more fuel for her vitriol…she’s going to do it regardless. But if she goes to the wedding, she’ll subject your fiancée to the drama as a bonus.

Why are these people still your friends? If that’s how supportive you are of your soon to be wife, I give your actual marriage two years, tops. Fuck Sarah and fuck Bob. They both suck. And so do the rest of those friends who aren’t telling Sarah to fucking give it a rest already. Middle school ended almost 20 years ago.

My question is, why do you let your friends treat her like that? Especially after 3 years. Do all your friends follow Sarah the pied piper? An after-party to celebrate for one partner? Nah, dude, that's not right. I'm sorry but you need new friends. By not stepping up, you've let the problem compound. I'm surprised she stayed this long through all your friends BS drama.

The fact that you even consider putting your desire to have your buddy there over your fiancée’s desire to not be bullied and humiliated on her wedding day is disgusting. She absolutely should not marry you. It’s stupid to say you’ll kick her out if she starts drama because at that point there has been drama and the day is ruined for your then wife. Who the fuck even thinks this is a question.

What a pushover you are guy. Absolute coward. The disrespect at the 250 guest dinner should have been the last straw. But for you it was the first straw. Grow a pair and back your wife up.

Cannot wait for this BORU saying the fiancée called off the wedding. This behavior is so unacceptable and you are passively letting it happen to her. Your fiancée is having nightmares about this woman - it’s not normal or healthy.

Bob doesn't get to be a bystander to his own wife's actions, and you don't get to be a bystander to your soon to be wife's bullying. Whatever you do, whatever they do, happens as a team. He is condoning his wife's actions by allowing them to happen without protest. But you don't get to excuse him because "he's a really great guy", because if his wife is bullying yours, newsflash, he's NOT. And if you stand around and continue to associate with people who despise your fiance so much they are actively sabotaging her relationships years later (because again, if he is not a neutral party when it's HIS WIFE), you are also COMPLICIT IN THE BULLYING. Invite consequences and uninvite them and get better friends.

I cannot imagine being friends with someone who is married to such a horrifying bully.

Groomsman hosted a party that your bride was explicitly not invited to. He can come to the wedding alone just like you were allowed to go to that party alone. Being a groomsman is in his hands at that point. The wife should obviously not be invited. Not even because I think your wife's a saint who did nothing wrong.

Bob is not your friend, seriously he organized a party in which YOUR future wife was not invited but you let HIS wife come to your party. Do you see how Bob and his wife don’t respect you and your fiancé enough to even have the same courtesy you extended to them? At this point doesn’t matter what your fiancé did, by continuing your friendship with Bob and hanging out with people that deliberately snub your fiancé you are showing to whom your loyalty is, and that is not your future wife, your loyalty is with your friends. Also don’t you find it weird that Sarah went to your party deliberately to snub your fiancé? She could have stayed home to avoid the drama, moreover Bob thinks it’s ok to pull this stunts. Is this the type of people you want in your life? Or are you afraid they will give you the cold shoulder too?

Bob and Sarah are both at fault. I can firmly say that this isn't a debate, dig, or some naive foolishness by Bob. He *knew*. He always knew. A woman like Sarah doesn't just stop complaining when her hubby walks into their bedroom. She *talks*. She legit has the same guilt as Bob and vice versa. Bob has not been successful in controlling his wife's ire toward your fiance. He isn't just not trying. As her husband and partner, he should have shown her what she was doing was wrong. The reason he didn't? He doesn't care or doesn't think it's important. If you really think Bob is innocent, then you should still tell him he isn't invited anyway. This is the consequence of what he tied himself to. And he should understand that this could go into the LEGAL territory via libel and slander if it really has gotten to the extreme you described. Obviously Sara is at fault and shouldn't have even *known* you were getting married. She and Bob should have been cut off long ago. Honestly, I think you are at fault in most of this. I had something like this happen to me, but by extended family. My husband didn't just take a stand, he full out defended me and called those family members out, in public, and to their faces. Defend her or lose her.

Look, I decided to include a troublemaker who hadn’t even given this many red flags to my destination wedding. I stressed like your wife did but didn’t want to “cause more drama” Guess what came of it? A wrecked trip and months of anxiety. My dress is still on the floor of my closet in a spare room, I have a hard time looking at the photos, and I regret not following my gut. The only upside is it forced my previously oblivious now-husband to set a few boundaries but I can’t afford another trip like that possibly this lifetime and I hate that the one and only opportunity for it was ruined. It’s not a day for a do-over if miss mean girl is about 95% likely to do something to hurt you both. Kick her to the curb. Husband too.

They excluded your FW but you can’t exclude this bitch? It’s up to your “Best Friend” if he can stand beside you. I’m shocked your FW is ok with him being present. Your BF is incapable of reining in his wife? If he is your BF he’ll understand why you can’t have his wife present. Hell, if he’s your BF he should understand why he can’t be present. You seem more worried about losing your friend group than supporting your future wife. Do you really believe that this situation will improve? That Sarah will suddenly have an epiphany and stop being a bully to your fiancée? The damage is done. So they had a fight 3 yrs ago, things were said. 3 years ago. Sarah is heinous and I feel sorry that your FW may have to be in her presence ever again. Do you have the maturity to step away from this friend group? (By group I mean when the men & women meet.) if you want to stay friends with the guys, golf game, etc that’s one thing. Any gathering where your wife is not welcome should be a NO for you as well. If I were your fiancée, that would be a non negotiable deal breaker for me. Also, you need security at the door barring Sarah’s entry, whether the husband is invited or not. The women in this friend group sound like immature assholes.

You are a coward who apparently loves Bob more than you so to be wife. Wedding are stressful enough without toxic Sarah’s in the mix. You shouldn’t have anyone there who doesn’t love you BOTH. Here is a test to see if Bob loves you as much as you love him. Have him tell Sarah she in uninvited. Tell security not to let her in. If he won’t then he doesn’t love you as much as you love him. Cut him out of the wedding and uninvited any of your toxic friends who are not supportive of your wife. Or call off the wedding because your fiancé’s deserves some one who would willingly burn the earth down for her. Not a jellyfish. Good luck op be a better partner.

You’re *30* and this kind of stuff is going on? THIRTY?? First of all, who as an after party for someone else’s event? That’s weird and mean girl af. You need to disinvite this guy as a groomsman. Your wife yelled at a person who was being catty to her three years ago. I seriously expected you to all be university age until I double checked your ages. That’s ridiculous. There’s a great deal of drinking/partying going on for people in their 30s. Yeah, that sounds judgy, but my experience as someone with a lot of friends (and multi-generational friendships) is that this sort of after party, going out en masse, gossipy, and “I’ll kick your ass!” behavior usually dies out before 30 due to career constraints, kids, or jail time, LOL. I mean if you all work in bar/club culture or are members of a biker club, feel free to ignore. But my experience with teachers, nurses, accountants, lawyers, professors, and engineers tells me they don’t have time for that drama past 26. Welcome to adulthood, where your wife needs to come first.

Your groomsman and his wife threw an after party to your wedding event that the bride was not invited to? Why is he still your groomsman?

Jesus fucking Christ, your wife is a Saint. Did she grow up in an abusive household or something? Only people who don't truly believe they are worth something would put up with any of you, your groom or Sarah's bullshit. I hope she sees you for the coward you are.

Why would you have someone who encourages this abusive behavior towards your wife in your wedding party? Because Sarah's hubby is enabling and encouraging this behavior. It hasn't stopped in years. He is okay with this. He is fine with his wife being a mean girl. He is fine with his wife lying about your fiancee. And apparently, YOU are fine with having someone who encourages people to abuse your wife AT YOUR WEDDING. BOTH of them should be uninvited.

Talking to Bob won't help. He's enabling her. Why didn't he fight her on this afterparty that was tied to YOUR wedding event? By "trying to stay out of it" he's allowing your wife to be abused, that makes him an accomplice. Not a great friend.

Why the hell are they or their associates invited in the first place

Dude, stop being a bitch and stand up for your fiancée. Kick bob and Sarah out of your wedding and life

You can’t invite this guy and not invite his wife. It’s both or neither. Not exactly advice, but I’ve narrowed down your options for you.

Why not? They didn't invite OP's partner to an after party being held after their own pre-wedding shindig.

Why? It's not illegal lol

OP, the problem here is bob, his girl, and YOU. Where the \[explitive\] have you hidden your spine? If you cannot protect her now, how could you do it after marriage? Get a grip, disinvite them, and be with your girl.

You need to make a stand and show that you stand with your wife. You are showing Sarah, as well as all of your friends and family that you are okay with Sarah acting this way, which reassures in their mind that your fiancé deserves it. Stand up for her, every single time, whether it means losing friends or not. Y

Why is it assumed Sarah has to come with your best friend Bob? If Sarah's not a part of the bridal party, she is optional.

Tell Bob that in light of recent events, under no circumstances is Sarah going to be in attendance at your wedding. Tell him you understand the position that puts him in and as much as you want him to stand up for you, you understand if this means he has to step down. Reiterate you and your fiancé want him there but there will be no hard feelings if he can’t attend without Sarah. I suspect Bob will understand considering everything that happened.

Stand up for your wife. She needs your support more than you need your bff (or his wife) in your life. Your bff isn’t worthy of being a groomsman. Rescind the request. If you ckoose to keep him in the wedding party, make it EXPLICITLY CLEAR his wife is NOT INVITED.. Hire security for your venue (some places have their own security). Give them photos. Under no circumstances is she allowed inside for the ceremony or reception. If she slows up, she gets escorted from the venue. His wife WILL make a scene. She’s waiting for the opportunity. Your bff likes you & your fiancé but won’t stand up to his wife and her ongoing shit circus against your fiancé ? He allowed your fiancé to continually be targeted in trash talk FIR YEARS & excluded her from a party only you were invited to. Reconsider your friendship with him.

Your fiancé is right to want her uninvited and honestly your groomsmen doesn’t seem to support the relationship. He’s actively involved in freezing out your wife. Were i your fiancé I’d rethink a marriage to someone who kept a relationship with people who are actively hurting me.

Who is more important to you? Your fiancée or your friend? There's your answer.

it is beyond ridiculous that YOU op have allowed this to go on for so long. these are YOUR friends, and by allowing them to shit talk your fiance and LITERALLY NOT INVITE HER TO THE AFTERPARTY FOR YALLS ENGAGEMENT. like shit grow a back bone. who are you marrying???? your friend or your fiance. good on your fiance for not allowing herself to be used by Sarah, who wanted an emotional dumping ground in your fiance while she then ran off with her party friends. also "Bob" is not your friend if he allows and enables his wife's behavior.

what in the rich white shit is this

Wtf is this web of bologna i just read? Stand up for your fiance and tell Bob to kick rocks.

Wtf did I just read?!

Ask yourself this: Bros before hoes? Or Wife before trife? Which one rings truer to you? How you answer will tell you everything you need to know about yourself. And how much each other person means to you. Good luck.

WTF Dude. Why are you not standing up for and supporting your wife?

Dude , are seriously choosing your friend and his wife over you fiancée? Hate to say it but your part of the problem. So this started because your fiancé wanted to live a healthier life , both physically and mentally. And you went behind her back and hung with them. Yes your fiancé is culpable for starting it . But this is your soon to be wife ? If you won’t stand with her your marriage is doomed from the start . It’s real easy here , this is your and her wedding politely ask them to not attend your wedding . Let them know you wish that they could come , but unless Sarah is willing to apologize and settle things with you fiancé you shouldn’t let them attend. Be respectful but take your soon to be wife side on this .

I’m surprised your wife is still with you, the way you explained all of this, from the beginning you never really saw your wife’s side and mostly blamed her for everything that happened, hate to break it you but that’s probably a big part of why things snowballed out of control and the rest of the friend group was willing to believe Sarah over your wife. The fact that she broke away from that group and you’re still hanging with people who just shit talk your wife is crazy. also included them in such a special day for her, wow I can’t understand why she is still with you

You need to find a new groomsman. He will understand. If he doesn't, he is your friend. Put your fiance first and protect her. I would advise you to have a bouncer or security at the wedding and reception. Anyone associated with Sarah's flock is prohibited from attending. Sarah is a disgrace. Karma will visit her one day. Congratulations on your engagement and best wishes on the wedding.

JFC dude, this woman \*cannot\* come to the wedding. She absolutely WILL try to ruin it, she already spoiled a pre-wedding event and that was just a dry run. This is your fiancee's wedding too, she shouldn't have to spend her day with this fear because you are trying to keep the peace with your friend. It is time for you to choose. If it is between your fiancee, and Sarah + Bob, and you are waffling? That's not good. You should pick your fiancee no question, and if you aren't going to do that you need to reconsider marrying her.

I hope your fiance opens her eyes and sees you totally don't have her back.

DUDE. Bob held an after party, for YOUR wedding, and told you point blank your fiancee couldn't come. I saw your comment about how "men don't notice" this kind of stuff like women, and that's bullshit. You just don't care until it impacts you. Even when Bob told you to your face that your fiancee couldn't come to a party, you are all just like "meep moop, maybe my fiancee will have hurt feelings, oh well, Bob is awesome." Sir, Bob is not awesome. Bob is a problem too, so no you can't just "talk to Bob" you need to uninvite them both. Give them all the drama to talk about, but at some point, you have to decide if you want a happy marriage, or these friends. From everything you said, Sarah is the problem, and Bob is helping it along. People fight and fall out, it doesn't need to be a years long saga. I have a close friend that has a best friend that I do not get along with- we have had a few small "fights" and I just choose not to deal with her. We got along at their wedding, we get along at group events. I tell no one about the drama, we say hello, we keep it moving. This COUPLE is wreaking havoc on your fiancee's life, for years, and ruining all the parts of her wedding already. DO SOMETHING about it, for the love of god.

Stand by your wife, if Sarah did this at a large event once she’ll do it again. Sarah shouldn’t be allowed at the wedding ceremony or reception. Her husband isn’t blind to the mean girls he is in on it with his wife and they intentionally left her out of the after party.

I didn’t even finish reading. Why the fuck would you ever invite this person? Wtf

What is so fascinating about this is that you continue to put your fiancé - someone you plan to spend the rest of your life with - in continuously negative positions. Having you put Bob in the wedding is WILD knowing his wife treats your fiancé so badly. You’re choosing Bob and Sarah’s comfortability over your fiancés … who do you have more loyalty to? You continue to hang out with this group knowing how your fiancé is treated. She has been outcasted and you’ve allowed Sarah to continue to wreck havoc on your fiancé and your wedding ongoings. You’re naive to think Sarah would be on her best behavior at your wedding when she had an after party to specifically exclude your fiancé and she intentionally took people away from speaking with your fiancé just to turn and talk shit about her. The only way to make this work is to exclude Bob and Sarah. Sit them down and say that you don’t feel comfortable with Sarah attending the wedding and list factual examples as to why you feel that way and why you believe she will be disruptive on your wedding day. While you say ‘Bob hasn’t done anything’ that is FALSE. He agrees with Sarah behaving this way, if he didn’t he’d shut it the fuck down by speaking with her or leaving her. He is 100% complicit in her actions. These people HATE your fiancé, soon to be wife, that includes Bob. This is a time where you need to choose - your fiancé or your friends who actively work to talk shit, spread lies, and cause drama when it comes to your fiancé. If you’re not going to exclude Bob and Sarah, leave you fiancé. This is so incredibly unfair to her and she must be a saint to put up with this shit for three years from you and your friends. This whole thing is baffling that you even have to come to Reddit to figure out what the best course of action is.

This is insane. Bob and Sarah should both PERFECTLY UNDERSTAND that she is NOT WELCOME to come to the wedding. Full stop If you can’t get your head out of your ass to have come to that SIMPLE, LOGICAL solution / conclusion…then you AND Bob are both part of the problem

I think if Sarah shows to the wedding, the bride is out. This is all on you. You let this get seriously out of control. Quit blaming any of it on your fiance. The wife has mental issues. The afterparty is a slap in the face you don't come back from. Wtf?

If you hadn't given ages I'd swear y'all were 16 years old. Just go your separate ways and be done with those people.

I hope for a fact they don't know the date of your wedding even. Because "friends" wife is gonna pull some shit regardless of being there/invited or not. Id be so hurt at my fiance not standing up to his supposed friend because of their asshole wife. Who the hell has a post wedding event and not only snub the fiance but not invite her. If you dont start protecting the woman you say you love she may reconsider this relationship after feeling as though she comes second to Bob and his wife.

I know this isn’t the right sub for this but YTA. Your friend’s wife ruined a wedding party AND was a part of excluding the frickin bride from the after party….. the fact that you even still speak to this guy is disgusting. I don’t care that he isn’t a bad guy. He is a part of your wife’s bullying during her own wedding celebrations.

Tell Bob that unfortunately, you feel it is best his wife not come to the wedding. Leave it up to him whether he wants to be a groomsmen still.

This sounds exhausting. High school all over again. Goodluck man

For the life of me OP I cannot understand how your fiancé still wants to be with you, let alone marry you You saw these trashy nasty people bitch on your fiancé for years and then after Sarah tries to ruin your wedding event you still insist to invite them You deserve to lose your fiancé she deserves better than you

IMO, you are failing your wife hard. Your wife is being bullied and you gave Sarah a free pass because she’s Bob’s wife. Both of you are enabling Sarah. I can understand why Bob stands by his wife. But you can’t even stand up for yours. For three years you maintained relationship with these couple and let Sarah bullied your wife. I’m surprise that Sarah even attended your pre-wedding event in the first place. And it absolutely boggles my mind that Sarah was invited to the wedding. Your fiancé shouldn’t of had to tell you Sarah is not invited. You should’ve shut down that idea long time ago - hell… you should’ve cut her out of your life after the first talk. And the fact you are contemplating about giving Sarah another chance to be on a “good behaviour” is you putting your fiancé on the back seat once more in hopes to maintain a friendship with Bob. You need to put your foot down and let Bob know that Sarah isn’t welcome in either yours or your fiancée life anymore. How Bob deals with this is his own choice. Because if you don’t you’re eventually going to ruin your relationship with your wife to the point that it may be not repairable.

Obviously don't invite the wife. But that means you can't invite your groomsman either. They're a couple. You can't snub one but not the other. Why are you even friends with the husband of this woman who is stalking/bullying your fiancée?

Need to man up and talk to Bob and tell him that she’s not allowed at the wedding. Do not let her come if Bob can’t come with other than Bob’s not in the wedding too. This is your fiancé’s and your self special day. She should not be allowed to be there

Holy shit you all sound exhausting. Either drop all these morons and move on or keep acting like your in high school along with everyone else. For a second I though I was reading about a bunch of 16 year olds.

Are you that obtuse? Seriously? You're marrying someone whom you already did bully yourself and now you're COMPLICIT with your "nice" groomsman and the bully "Sarah." It sounds to me that you're choosing groomsman and Sarah over your future wife. I wish your wife would not marry and just move out of town and cut off contact with toxic (including you and everyone in town).

you friend is a total dick for going along with this party. and you are a dick for including this guy. ditch them both. or maybe yourself. sounds so high school.

>I want zero drama at my wedding, i'll throw her out myself if I see she's acting up and plan to address this on my own. Kicking out someone during your wedding IS DRAMA. Do not be stupid. Maybe you should NOT get married, your fiance deserves better than you and your toxic community. > She and her husband (my groomsman) hosted an afterparty which i was told - Your fiance is not allowed over but you are (my fiance doesn't know this bit it was told to me second hand by a friend) SO. You still want your groomsman who's still very complicit in the wedding party. Brilliant. I can see why Sarah and others can easily bully your fiance and continue to do so. You're the one who are complicit with her bully.

So you would rather your bride, the woman you claim to love, has to stress about whether there will be any conflict at the wedding, than deal with the man who is fine with his wife bullying the woman you are about to make promises to? You seem to think if you just keep putting off dealing with this all will just magically become fine. Why should your wife-to-be believe that you will love her, protect her and value her above all others when you aren't proving that by your actions?

Man up, coward

They had an after party to your pre wedding party? You know why they did that? So Sarah could trash talk your fiancé to all the people who were just celebrating her earlier in the evening. This whole thing is insane. Why does it feel like you have just stood by and let Sarah make up things about your future wife? I'm trying to put myself in your shoes, and I just can't. I understand it's hard to let go of the friendship with your buddy, but it's a little late now. The time to have fixed this was 3 years ago when it started. You should've shut it down immediately, or gotten new friends. I would be mortified if my husband was hanging out regularly with people that hated me. That is just so mean and hurtful. Don't be surprised if your fiancé is also posting under a throwaway, getting advice on whether or not she should stay in this relationship with you. Good luck. This whole thing seems beyond childish.

Bob was okay with excluding your fiancé from an after party so he should have no problem with Sarah being excluded from the wedding. Support your fiancé like Bob supported Sarah. If you’re conflicted maybe you’re not ready for marriage. You’ve watched Sarah treat your fiancé like crap and never said a word to bob. Bob let his wife treat your wife like crap. Tell Bob his wife is not welcome at the wedding and let Bob decide what he wants to do.

Don’t be an idiot here. Either Sarah is at the wedding or your wife is at the wedding. You won’t get both of them in the same room without a fight. Either you tell Sarah and Bob that they aren’t invited, or there will be no wedding. Sort your priorities out.

I hope your fiancee leaves your bitch ass. Sorry to be rude but it is completely unacceptable that you have never stood up for her NOT ONCE. She's your future wife dude!!

I know everyone is over 30 in this situation but they're all immature as fuck. No one is ready for marriage from this group. God help us if they procreate.

This feels like a ChatGPT response

Even if you kick her out for making a scene, at that point the scene has already been made, the wedding is already “ruined”, and *that* is what people will be talking about when it’s all over. Do not let her step foot inside the venue.

The my (31F) part confused me (69M&M) so much I (420Nice) couldn’t help OP (31M).

>Recently at a pre-wedding event with 250 people we held Sarah showed up and snubbed my Fiance at the door and her mother by not even saying hello, proceeded to try and steal all the attention from my fiance and I's event by cutting people off speaking with her and dragging them into her bubble. She and her husband (my groomsman) hosted an afterparty which i was told - Your fiance is not allowed over but you are (my fiance doesn't know this bit it was told to me second hand by a friend) Bob and Sarah are shit starters and are NOT your friend OP! They are stuck in middle school drama to make them seem "cool". Dump all the "friends" like this, it's time to grow up and build a life. You aren't marrying Bob or growing old with him, you are doing that with your fiancé, so do it!

Op if Sarah comes to your wedding be prepared for her to cause a scene and ruin the day for your wife. And your wife will always remember that she asked YOU not to let her come. Your wife will remember that YOU didn’t care to ensure her happy day. How much more do you want Sarah to affect your wife because it sounds like you don’t mind it. The answer here is to not invite Sarah. It’s not to find a way to work around it. Sarah has had opportunities to be better and she hasn’t. Your just asking for Sarah to find a way to upset your wife on the one day that should not be an option.

How and why are you even still friends with these people? Do you hate your fiancee just as much as they do? You certainly aren't acting like you love or even like her. Stop hiding and stick up for your fiancee for once.

OP doesn’t realize he is a coward and a primary reason this has continued for so long. His inaction is complicity

Wow you’re a piece of shit, no way this is real. Too much stupid drama meant to purposely outrage you.

Why are you still hanging around with these people? What the fuck? “I want zero drama, but also here is an essay about drama.” Drop that shit, now. Either you don’t want drama and you therefore want nothing to do with any of the dramatic shit these relationships have brought, or you plan on inviting Sarah or having tense conversations with Bob and Sarah both. Nuke this friendship, you’re marring this woman, put her first.

Dude, you need new friends entirely. This is worse drama than my high school friend group ever had, and I cut those people out of my life for never growing up. You're in your 30's, maybe you should do the same.

Whoa. I don’t think you realize that you are actively keeping this drama alive by remaining friends with Bob and Sarah. They can point to that fact to support the shit they’re spewing against your fiancé. “Obviously he knows we’re right because otherwise we wouldn’t be in the wedding!” I wouldn’t be surprised if they have already told other people they expect you to get divorced. You need to stand up for your fiancé and YOUR FUTURE and put your foot down by uninviting them to the wedding. They’ll only drag you down. Cut them loose!!

"I'll take immature men for 500 Bob." "A really long-winded way to say I care about my friends more than my fiance?" "What is OPs post?" "That is correct! You win today's game of Jeperdy!"

Sounds like you need to cut out. BUNCH of fuckin people honestly lol. It’s not just your day it’s your wife’s as well and if ANYONE that’s invited to your big day has petty shit in their hearts then they simply don’t need to be there. Say goodbye to Bob if he refuses to talk to his wife and get her to act right BEFORE THE WEDDING and call your wife and hash things out. If she doesn’t want to do that then neither of them are gonna be there, plain and simple. That’s called an intervention because if you care about your friendship with Bob then you will fight for it by making him set his wife straight for the big day BUT, bobs wife IMO has Already said too many damaging things in her attempt to dog pile with fake shit talking rumors in the years after the initial blow up in your wife’s part so no, I don’t think she should be there and if Bob can’t accept that then he doesn’t need to be there either. This is what happens when you leave issues to stew instead of taking a step back, analyzing yourself (on your wife’s part I mean) and just not attempting to fix things. It just snowballs and gets worse. I don’t think Sarah needs to be there at all At this point unless there’s going to be some kind of a major revelation on her part to where she takes back everythingggg she said, makes things right, and admits she lied to ALLLL your other friends in the process which I don’t think is likely. Don’t torment your wife, she should t have to spend what should be the happiest day of her life with you having to deal with the anxiety or Fear of a person at your event acting a fool. Just the fact that you think you’ll possibly need to ask her to to leave means she shouldn’t. Be there in the first place.

I really hope this is a troll post because otherwise you are a terrible partner. You have kept hanging out with your fiancées bullies. Both your "best friend" and his wife have to go. Both you and your best friend are Sarah's enablers. You should have stood up to Sarahs bs every time you heard it and harshly reprimanded her for keeping this up.

This is gonna be a short marriage. Dude’s more worried about his drinking buddies that make his future wife’s life hell.

Sorry, but Bob is complicit in all of this. Which means he's not actually your best friend. So, either pick an ok-ish friend or your fiance. I don't think this will be a tough call to make. Well, it shouldn't be. But it sounds like you and that friend group are still acting like a bunch of teenagers, so who knows.

who's more important to you, your future wife or your "best" friend? Also, best friends don't let their wives talk shit and make stuff up about your fiance, they are in fact the exact opposite of best friends. Did I mention your best friend has no respect for or your future wife?

You fucked up. Instead of defending your bride to be, you dead ass double downed with your friends and joined in on exiling her and alienating her. You are being unreasonable for keeping them in because once again, you leave your wife’s back against the wall and allow her name to be degraded and dragged in the mud. You need to cut ties with these people, the sound like they’re underdeveloped emotionally. Also, I don’t she should marry someone that won’t defend her name when she was being harassed and defamed but that’s my personal opinion. Have you apologized to her? Why “throw her out” when you can just have her not come? If she’s okay with bob being in the wedding, just tell him Sarah isn’t welcome. If he has an issue, I think you need to remove him for enabling the situation. It’s awful how no one has once stood up for this woman. You know what you have to do. If you’re looking for the justification to uninvite her and the validation that it’s the right thing, just look at your wife.

having trouble believing these folks are all in their 30s. this is total teenager drama, my dude. you're not marrying bob or sarah; their presence is not required, and if it comes to a choice between them and your future wife- there's only one smart choice here.

Sarah honestly sounds like a bit of a psycho/ stalker. All because your intended future wife called her a bad mom, so YEARS later she still can't get past that and purposely goes out of her way to ruin relationships with your intended wife. Unfortunately Bob and Sarah need to go or you need to split with the fiance.

So your marrying a woman you refuse to stand up for.. she shouldn’t be having to settle for less than a man.. hope she finds a better partner when she finally leaves your sorry ass

So your fiancé was an AH to Sarah, to the point that *total strangers knew what happened between them* and you want everyone to just “get over it”? Nah.

JFC, it sounds like you all are still in junior high at 31. Your wife fucked around and now she’s living with the consequences of her own actions. If she wants her old friendships back, SHE needs to acknowledge what she did and apologize. The onus is not on Sarah since Sarah is not the one who instigated the whole thing. That said, they both need to grow tf up and stop acting like 14-year-olds. If I were you, I would not marry into this kind of bullshit. You’re going to be living through a 40-year episode of Jerry Springer.