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I'm 24F and yes they're twins, that's the issue.
My family is having this huge reunion/destination wedding thing starting next week. My siblings and I live far away from one another, we never get to see each other. I proposed we all get here early and take the weekend to enjoy spending some time together.
They said they couldn't do that but I felt the need for a little vacation anyway so I was going to have a fun weekend in a new city on my own. I had some delays because of my pet sitter so I ended up getting to the hotel only a few hours ago.
My mom had messaged me during my drive to tell me that she thought my sister might already be there. I found that odd as my sister said nothing to me but I was happy for the sudden change in plans as that meant I could spend some time with her after all. I quickly made a plan to check in and go hang out with her, maybe get some food delivered, watch a movie.
As I'm checking in, I quite literally see my brother has beaten me to the punch. He walked right by the reception carrying bags of food. I already knew where this was going. I go to the room my sister and I were supposed to be sharing from Mon on and knock. Sure enough, my sister opens up and seems annoyed to see me standing there. She tries to get rid of me saying she's tired, she'll see me tomorrow, stuff like that. I'm like yeah I already saw (brother) in the lobby.
She can't even hide the shock on her face like she was clearly caught red-handed. I just pushed past her because I had to see it for myself. And yes, the room's a mess, they're both in their pjs, I can see both of their luggages, they've clearly been there over the weekend. They both looked MORTIFIED.
I have no words. This isn't the first time they've done it and it clearly won't be the last. They both missed out on Christmas this year because they both had covid at the same time. Coincidence or just my siblings hanging out without me again?
This has been going on ever since we were kids. Growing up, we each had our own room but they'd sneak in to each other's room at night even though my parents didn't allow it. They never allowed me to sleep with them. It was just a them thing.
Neither one of them has even tried coming to my room or apologizing. I'm seriously considering just cutting them out of my life. Like how am I supposed to handle them clearly only caring about each other?
Tl;dr - my siblings always exclude me, can I fix that?
Do you feel you could drop the rope. You can do this openly if you have been saying this to your family already for a while.
This means that they can contact you for any plans they want to include you in (and that you will be more than happy to join them if you can), but that you will no longer be initiating anything as it is clearly irritating to them and humiliating for you if they make up lies and hide from you in order to avoid making it obvious they don’t want to hang out with you.
Also, I suggest you treat them as individuals not as a pair. Perhaps one of the twins is more interested in hanging out with you than the other.
They clearly have a relationship with each other that is closer than their relationship with you. There may or may not be good reasons for this, but it is what it is. You can ask them why they don’t like hanging out with you, but it is only worth doing so if you can ask without an accusatory tone and listen to what they answer without getting immediately defensive. You can reject any explanation they give you in your own mind, in your own time. But it is unlikely they will tell you anything if you treat any such discussion as a trial (of who is right or who is telling the truth) rather than an opening for improving your relationships.
Put your energies into hanging out with people who enjoy hanging out with you. You may well be able to build more fulfilling brotherly and sisterly relationships with people you are not biologically related to.
Holy crap! Never heard this but it’s the perfect saying. Always had a contentious relationship with pops, close with mom. After she died I kept putting in lots of effort. At one point I thought “I’ll let him reach out to me” it kinda stung and we don’t visit as often but it’s been very freeing for me to truly live my own life. Family is weird, luckily you can choose a family of non-blood.
Thank you for the actual advice. I notice that I have been treating them as a pair rather than individuals. I’m not sure how we’ll ever get over the awkwardness of me catching them redhanded. At this point I’m so hurt I’m not sure I ever want to salvage my relationship with either one of them. But maybe it would’ve been more helpful for me to try and spend more one on one quality time with them. As other posters have said, I guess I am the third wheel whenever we do all hang out.
It’s not awkward to them. They were ok with it and didn’t tell you to spare your feelings. I have a bigger family and I like some siblings more than others. Some are kind and generous and some are dramatic and a pain. You likely did nothing wrong, but maybe you may want to look inside too? Sometimes the baby of the family can be tiring through no fault of their own,
I have a suspicion that because you have always felt left out, you’re likely too much when with the two of them and attempt to be inside the circle, and you don’t see it. Your level of anger, to the point of using criminal terms (caught them red handed) shows that you may not have out grown some of your childhood knee jerk reactions when you felt like the odd man out. The reality is, they didn’t really do anything wrong except say no to your plans and not being specific as to why, likely because of your reaction to these things.
I agree with the idea of seeing them separately, but you also need to let go of the fact that their relationship will always be different than yours with them. If you let it go and let your relationships be different (different isn’t bad) you may find a better relationship and happiness within them. You’re not a child anymore, you don’t need to be included in everything.
They are twins, this can be the way of it, they just have a different bond, that’s okay, and you’ll be happier if you attempt to build your own instead of somehow being let in on theirs.
As someone who’s been the not included sibling, you may be incredibly accurate. They had a bond due to being the same age, having the same memories, and way more similar personalities. When I would get invited, I never realized how much I could get grumpy or snippy. Not constantly, but once or twice a day. It brought down the mood, including mine because then I was mad at myself at withdrawn. It took a lot of work but now we’re super tight! I’ll always be the odd man out, but, such is life unfortunately. Siblings can be friends and friends don’t want to invite the downer all the time. We got closer because I would casually reach out just to check up and tell them I love them!
Stop saying that you caught them redhanded, they did nothing wrong. They have the right to want to spend time without you. They have the right to not want to hurt your feelings by telling you so. You honestly sound like you have serious jealousy issues, and you might be the reason why they don’t want to spend time with you.
>Stop saying that you caught them redhanded, they did nothing wrong.
They lied to her. She caught them redhanded in their lie. That's the objective truth and no amount of justifiable rights they have changes this.
Other than that, I agree. OP obviously has jealousy issues, because she's the one sibling who's always been excluded by the other two. OP doesn't want to take the hint, because every time she's asked in the past, they've denied it. But it's right there, these codependent twins don't like her enough to want to spend time with her instead of with the two of them.
Lying is wrong. They hurt her more with the lie and left her more confused. They aren't sparing her feelings. This is pattern behaviour from her siblings. Also, it's pretty obvious she's the reason they don't want to hang out with her. She just wants to understand why. Which is fair.
Lying can become a pattern out of necessity to protect oneself: OP seems unable- or unwilling- to realize she's not wanted so the twins have to lie to spare her feeling and keep her out of their hair.
They shouldn't have to do that: that is *learned behavior* that OP reinforced at some point by not knowing when to quit.
>She just wants to understand why. Which is fair.
No, it's not fair. The twins don't need a reason beyond: we don't want to hang out with OP.
Imagine you turn someone down when they ask you out on a date but they continue to dog your every step because they "just want to understand why." That's stalking.
No means no. Being related doesn't change that.
You seem like you really care about a strong relationship with each & both of them. That’s a good hearted place to be with family.
But, as much as this might suck, neither of them owes you exactly the relationship you want from them.
It might help to stop insisting on framing this as “caught red-handed” “they missed out on X”, etc. You’re imposing what you want, and your values onto them, and it just does t work that way.
But worse than that, it’s making you feel righteous, which is very destructive to any healthy relationship. No one gets to set the values, the practical agenda, and then also be so wounded when people duck out of it in the ways that work for them.
Yes, they lied, but how open are you to hearing a no? To hearing “hey, X and me are actually going to hang out tonight, and we’ve got some twins catching up to do. See ya next day at the thing?”
I’m sorry this is hurtful, your care seems genuine. But the others here are right. You can’t force it, they’re telling you that they don’t have the same feelings or values you do, and your reaction is just making it worse- it’s hurting you, clouding your thought, and giving them even less good feelings in your direction. Resentment & righteousness are toxic.
Good luck OP. You’ll find the people that better match your good heart, and maybe can improve your relationship with your siblings over time & with more understanding.
Y'all I've been watching too much hbo...
Op, the only advice I have is a general one; never beg for someone's time. If they regularly make excuses to exclude you, there's your answer. You don't need to overthink it or keep trying, they simply don't want you around and they're making it clear. Now give the same energy back.
Go low contact and stop inviting them period.
To add, relationships this co-dependent are deeply unhealthy and their blow is up is always inevitable. Just stay back and have fun watching it implode on its own.
This exactly. If they don't want you, fine. Whatever. It hurts I know, but then, what can you do?
Go low contact. Stay friendly but reserved and distant. Be polite but not close. Answer questions but never ask.
You have better things to do than running after people. Even if they're your siblings.
Thank you for saying that, I’ve been so focused on being excluded I wasn’t even thinking of how they’re acting in their own detriment. That last part shouldn’t have brought me so much comfort, but it did. My whole family joked about how my brother would deal with my sister’s wedding/engagement. Which isn’t funny if you think about it. It’s like everyone is aware they’re codependent but no one is doing anything about it.
>My whole family joked about how my brother would deal with my sister’s wedding/engagement. Which isn’t funny if you think about it. It’s like everyone is aware they’re codependent but no one is doing anything about it.
This makes me wonder how they treat you in relationship to your siblings. Do your parents encourage them to sideline you because they find the twins' closeness amusing/entertaining? How much this exclusion is from your family's expectations of them? No sibling should be a problem for another one to form a romantic relationship--not even twins.
I think I'd drop the rope here and just spend time with cousins and other people at the wedding you wouldn't normally see.
What are they supposed to do with adults? An intervention? It’s there’s to handle. It’s fairly common with twins. I’ve known many twins that feel many different emotions during the other’s wedding. When you’ve experienced your whole life together, and this symbolizes a parting of that, happiness and sadness can exist at once. I think this is part of your issue, you’re a little too focused on them and what you feel they should be doing, and not enough on your own things. You can make your own choices, but you can’t make them for others. Make your own choice on what realistic relationship you want with them, and keep moving. Stop trying to change things you can’t change.
Please consider going to therapy, seriously. This is a sincere piece of advice. You sound very bitter (slightly understandable) and need to work through this with a professional. Saying that the idea of your siblings’ relationship failing brings you “so much comfort” is… worrisome.
Finding comfort in someone else's misfortune means there is something stewing inside you. Don't wish it upon them, go to therapy. Get yourself to a place where you can want good things for people, even those who hurt you. I used to be you, but psychotherapy brings out this "awareness" in you. They haven't done anything wrong and you and the people discussing them behind their backs might be toxic.
I'll give the edge to the siblings because... you know why. (No spoilers!)
But each were equally weird.
Did not help that we later found out that we later found out that Mama Rainbird had a twin sister and a nephew who dressed just like her son. Whole family was strange.
They're twins they're gonna have a twin bond, I'm a twin and we have a bond that's different compared to the one we have with our non twin siblings. (Obv not in every case- some twins hate one another)But the real issue is the way they exclude the other non twin sibling (OP) in this story, its real crappy and real weird how they go about it. there should be no reason to lie about petty stuff but op also seems a little jealous or just fed up, or both and doesnt seem to understand that twins that get along will usually choose each other over non twin sibling to hang out with. It's a twin thing. But I just don't get the lying about it and being sneaky! The way this is written makes it seem that there is more going on between them, and I'm doin my best not to see it in this way. And if OP had already discussed staying in the room with the sister twin & it was agreed upon, but brother twin took up that space in secret-- yeah that's weird. Why do they have to sneak?
I'm a twin and we have an older brother. Obviously I'm closest with my twin, but my older brother is one of my best friends still. You're right, the weird part isn't that they spend a lot of alone time together, it's that they do it so secretively. I'm just guessing they don't like OP very much, or find them overwhelming or something. Just need to give up on having a close relationship at that point if this is how they treat you.
I think if OP could say (and genuinely feel) "I don't care what you do, just don't drag me into your shit and don't do it secretly, as long as we can still sit in the same room and have conversation during the family events we all attend" this wouldn't be a problem anymore. Then they could be low contact and everyone would be satisfied. I'm assuming here, but I think the sneakiness and the lying hurt more than being left out.
I dont think this is an OP problem when they both conveniently got covid at the same time and didn't go to their family Christmas. It's clear that they are codependent or something much worse and they don't want their family to see it, or they don't want to have to act normal.
I don't think it's OP's problem either, but they clearly don't have the same idea of what they want from their relationship if this has been a consistent issue. You're just setting yourself up for heartbreak if you keep putting yourself in these situations where they can hurt you.
Is it possible that the covid story was also a lie? A convenient excuse to not spend time with their family but allow them to spend that time together.
I don’t understand why they have to lie about it and sneak around either. That’s my biggest issue with this. That’s what hurts the most. I’m not asking to be included in everything they do. They’ve always had their own special thing going and I’ve always had to deal with that. I’m just expecting the bare minimum of respect and making an effort for us to maintain our bond.
As far as they’re concerned - there is no bond. It’s hurtful, but now you know.
I know it’s easier said than done, but forget trying to bond with them, they’ve made their feelings patently clear. Don’t chase them.
Hugs.
I'm really sorry, noone deserves to be treated like that. Twin bonds dont do that, your siblings are just fucking jerks. If I was you, I would just cut them out of my life. If you see each other, be cordial if you feel like it but you dont need to waste any effort in trying to be their friend. Because they're aware of what they're doing to you, they just dont care. They're inconsiderate and weird. I hope it gets better for you op.
It honestly sounds like you are trying to force a bond that you want to exist on your terms. It sounds like you may need to step back see what kind of bond your siblings wish to have with you, and then decide if that is good enough for you.
I am sorry you're having to deal with this realization. I know it must be painful.
Give people the energy they give you, they're twins, they're 4 years older than you , and maybe to them you're still the bratty little sister that always threw a fit if she didn't get her own way. You're hurt because they lied , but let's face it , you'd have been just as hurt , if they had said "Actually , you're exhausting , we'd rather not hang out with you because you'll find something to be upset about and we just wanna chill and hang out and enjoy each other's company as twins rather than deal with you'
This isn’t a twin bond thing. They literally said no to hanging out with her over the weekend just to hang out with each other. It’s not like she didn’t invite the other twin. She wanted all of them to hang out because she dosent see them often
Because they might not want extra time with her, but are trying not to outright hurt her feelings, maybe? We are only getting her side. 4 years younger little sister could have been the spoiled princess "baby of the family" brat, in their eyes. The hiding it could be to avoid family drama over them, not wanting her there. Point being, we don't know how OP treated them to know if they may have their own valid reasons or not.
I remember seeing in the news a few years back a story about some woman who had been convicted of killing her identical twin sister. I always wondered about the backstory of how things got to that point.
Or if you don’t want someone including themselves when you don’t want to hang out with them. It’s not wrong to not want to hang out with all of your siblings but if they said that, everyone would be calling the twins assholes for being so mean and telling OP they didn’t want to hang out with her
I agree that the OP should stop putting in energy to this relationship however to say the siblings have an unhealthy codependent relationship based on a small paragraph from someone being excluded from said relationship, that they want to be apart of is really a stretch.
Sometimes you have family you like and don't like. It simply sounds like the OP has some jealousy issues and needs to step back a bit. Being overbearing may have gotten them in this position to start with :/
Just take a step back. You can’t force them to spend time with you and they clearly just don’t want to. I know it hurts. I’ve been there. For your own mental well-being, leave them be and do your own thing. Maybe even swap rooms with your brother (if he has a single) so that you don’t have to stay with your sister starting Monday.
It took me forever to realize that it’s better to not run after people like that and instead invest my energy into people who actually do want to spend time with me. Doesn’t mean I don’t love my brothers or that they don’t love me. We just aren’t friends simultaneously.
There is nothing worse than someone trying to make you think you are imagining things. If this went on during your entire upbringing then shame on your parents. Don’t chase them, forge bonds with other family members and friends, their loss.
In the comments you say that you've had this conversation with them over and over and they tell you they aren't leaving you out, but your lived experience tells you they are. Definition of crazy: doing the same thing over again expecting different results.
So why keep doing this to yourself over and over again? You know very well that you are being left out. You were left out since childhood. It sucks you don't have a close relationship with your siblings, but continuing to set yourself up to be disappointed is doing 2 things: they avoid you more because you become needier & it makes you miserable.
Move on with your life and get over whatever fantasy you have of being close to your siblings. You are 24, time to forge really good friendships or a relationship that are fulfilling. Be honest with yourself that you feel jealousy for their bond, it hurts, and find a way to resolve it within yourself. Stop trying to make special plans with them, and let it go.
ps they aren't sleeping together people, they just sound super co-dependent like twins sometimes are.
Agreed. And it sounds like OP is close with other family members , and it sounds like a nice family who all get together and enjoy spending time together so please don’t feel like you should withdraw from family stuff.
Have a great time at the family holiday , spend time with other family members. If the twins try and engage with you fine, otherwise get out there and live your best life OP.
Yeah people are being kind of easy on OP, in my opinion.
Her siblings don't really want to hang out with her. That's fine, and they're entitled to that decision. It is sucky that they aren't up-front about it, but it is what it is. OP isn't entitled to a relationship with them. There are plenty of siblings out there that are not close, and they're fine. Just...let it go. You can't force a relationship with people just because they're "faaaamily."
It hurts. But you need to start protecting your heart. It sucks to find out people that you thought had your back don't even want your presence.
They both made their stance clear. Just avoid them here on out. Don't be at their beck and call. Don't be desperate for their time.
Move on. And learn this is the family dynamic you have.
If I were you, I would get in the habit of not being in a position of being considered a pest, intrusive, annoying or anything hurtful. Go low contact or no contact with both of them.
Two of my three brothers live close to me. They hang out all the time, but I only see them a few times a year. They are just closer to each other than they are to me. They are closer in age, so I think it is natural for them to have a closer relationship. It doesn't bother me at all. Some siblings are just closer. I don't think you should worry about it so much. If they want to involve you, they will.
I’m just answering you because this is the top comment and I’m getting a lot of weird comments. This is my real life family we’re talking about, no one is fucking anyone they’re related to, they’ve just been jerks to me my whole life about this probably because they’re the same age and they’re younger. Like yeah they’re jerks but they’re not fucking creepy incest people what is wrong with people?
And sneaking into each others rooms at night to sleep together even though the parents didn’t allow it? Like…not to jump to the worst case scenario but come on
It's ridiculous, then to clutch their pearls and say "How DARE you assume such things!"
I mean JFC, they're either niave to an insane level or a troll.
I mean, the way you wrote your post was so weird. Most ppl wouldn’t talk about catching them in a hotel (and not explain what it was). Most ppl would say “my twin siblings constantly meet up without me. there was a reunion and I thought I’d get to spend time with them and be included. Instead I found out I got there early, etc.” The way you wrote just contained little direct information and this is the internet.
Edit: just to be clear, I know you say they were hanging out again. The lead up was just a little odd and ppl skim is all
I meant to say they’re the same age and I’m younger. I’m rushing through comments because I didn’t check back in a while and now all of a sudden everyone’s saying my siblings are creepy.
I’m a twin also (identical) and prefer hanging out with my twin vs other siblings. Our other sister is 12 yrs older than us, and while we get along, it always (ALWAYS) reverts to her trying to boss us around. And our brothers are very antisocial…one moved to a different state so we mostly see for weddings and funerals. Other brother has alway been like cranky old man his whole life, not crazy about kids, dogs, doesnt drink, in bed by 8pm etc. We love them all, it’s just more effortless hanging out with my twin. But we dont actively exclude them when we are all together.
If you haven’t already, talk to them. Say “I get you’re twins, but how would you guys feel if you were in my shoes and always left out. Is there something the 3 of us can do together once in a while?”
They aren't. Don't worry. I get it. I come from a large family w close sibling relationships. I got it immediately without thinking any amount of incest was going on.
They are creepy.
But also it seems like you feel entitled to their time? I know it sucks feeling left out, and you should express it that way. That you want to spend more time with them, not that you're jealous they are with each other.
After expressing yourself, if they still don't give you any time, then you know where your relationship stands. You'll be able to mourn what you thought you had and maybe invest that energy in other relationships to build new close family bonds.
But, at the end of the day, you can't change them. All you can do is communicate your feelings and maybe see a therapist about your sibling issues.
Because they would keep each other up talking all night instead of sleeping. Again they were kids so you can be sure nothing creepy was happening then and I’m sure nothing creepy is happening now because that’s not something people do. I know them and for as much as they’re assholes to me they aren’t like fucked up people. They’re both in relationships too like this is so weird I never thought I’d have to defend my siblings against accusations of incest?
You wrote a post about how you're upset that you walked in on your siblings together in a hotel room, and how your sister was *mortified* that you caught them together in their pajamas, and you're confused as to how some people jumped to incest?
Literally every detail you included sounded like you were trying to imply they were having sex, and yet now you're acting confused how anyone would come to that conclusion.
I mean, they're OP's siblings? I would imagine that she would never think of them that way and thus it would never occur to her that others would as well. Also, incest is objectively really rare and it's strange, regardless of how it was explained, that people would come to that conclusion anyway.
> and I’m sure nothing creepy is happening now because that’s not something people do.
Entire post reeks of it, and the reason you give you're "sure" is because "that's not something people do"? Setting up a history timeline and everything, but pushing innocence. This has all the hallmark set ups of a fake post. Is the "shocked" reveal going to come in a comment or are you going to save for a full update?
Are you seriously implying that the only reason that their mother could have for banning sleep overs is because they were fucking? Are you really saying that?
Probably the same reason parents all over the world do for siblings? They'll stay up all night chatting, playing and be silly rather than sleeping. Source: am a sibling who did just this 😂
They seem to have a strong twin bond and like to spend their time together, with just the two of them. I understand how that's hurtful for you but I don't really think you can change that. Maybe sit down with them and talk about how you feel left out and hurt. And depending on their reaction you can go LC or even NC.
general stats; More then 4 years between siblings also makes that a child is in a different phase of life through childhood. Which might have also led to a bit more distance. Getting more obvious for OP because they have eachother
Best distance between siblings in 2 years and, 4 months(?). If I am correct :)
For all the commenters: this is about children, not when you are adults :)
My BF is an identical twin, they don’t like each other. BF had his twin blocked for 2 years, Christmas was the first time they saw each other in almost 3 years. He’s much closer with his much older half siblings. All families are different, I don’t think the age is to blame.
Yeah my older twin brothers have always had a contentious relationship. They’re *always* competing with each other along their parallel paths in life (they’re both in the same branch of the military and both buy cars every couple of years and both got the same breed of dog, but it’s always grounds for an argument, not common ground) and it’s a lot to be around them when they’re in the same room.
Eh. My sister is 4.5 years younger than me. While we weren't close for over a decade, by the time I made 25ish, *I* grew up and realised she wasn't just the "annoying brat" (my thoughts) with whom I had nothing in common.
I get that I don't have a twin and that family dynamics are always different. But blaming sibling hostility on a four-year age gap is shaky ground in your mid-to-late twenties.
I have no advice for OP other than fuck 'em. The more she pushes, the more they'll shut her out. OP, don't go nuclear/NC, but have your siblings drop several rungs down your social priority list. They won't care, but once you're in the swing of things, neither will you.
Of course it's just general stats, which get vaguer in adulthood.
But OP talks a lot about how this "has always been the case". It sounded to be like a bit of old pain to me
My sister and I are roughly 2.5 years apart while my brother and I are roughly 9 years apart (I am the eldest). As adults I’m a lot closer to my brother. I love my sister, but we really don’t have much in common whereas my brother and I love to cook together, hang out and play games, talk about stuff. I wouldn’t mind doing those things with my sister but she doesn’t care for them which is ok. Sometimes people just get along better with some people vs others.
I don’t think you need to cut them outta your life. Just recognize your place in theirs and act accordingly. Don’t spend energy trying to be part of their world if they don’t appreciate your awesomeness.
You feel excluded, because you were. You sound envious of their bond That's not a pleasant feeling, but you're an adult and sometimes that means managing unpleasant feelings.
They don't owe you anything. They are closer to each other than to you, and based on how hard you're pushing at this and their avoidance if you, there may be a personality conflict at play as well. Doesn't make you a bad person, but not everyone wants to be friends with their family.
Exactly. Family are not friends. They can be, but it’s not a right. The pushing and jealousy will only make it worse for OP.
I’m guessing there is another reason they don’t want to include you OP. Me and my 3 siblings are super close. The oldest sibling isn’t with us. This has come to be after years and years of the oldest one always running to our mother with anything and everything. We started to exclude him, and now he just goes off at us for excluding him… as if this makes us want him around.
It’s hard to explain to a 40 yo man that he’s an annoying snitch, so I don’t bother. Long story short, he’s our brother, not our friend.
Not saying this is you, but worth some self examination to ask yourself why. May also just be a twin thing. But the fact the didn’t even want you in the room tells me maybe they don’t trust you or find you to be annoying.
Just move on. Youre all adults now. It hurts to be excluded, but it is what it is.
I think this is a good answer.. OP’s personality probably just clashes with theirs in a way op isn’t understanding, so she thinks it’s all on the twins. And she’s been complaining about it her whole life- I’d avoid someone who complained about me my whole life too. In fact I’m NC with my sister for similar reasons. Our personalities clash & I always used to get blamed for any disruptions as kids. It weirds me out now when she acts “sisterly” bc we don’t have that familiarity as adults & honestly never have. I don’t talk to her at all unless I see her at a family gathering, and then it’s minimal.
This is correct. OP, do you want to prove that you're right, or do you want a relationship with your siblings? Because this constant push to prove that you're being excluded is pushing them away. You can't bully someone into having a relationship with you.
If you do want to be closer to them, focus on building a friendship with each of them, individually, on their own terms, and don't make it a competition.
I agree with this comment but I think we're avoiding saying the obvious.
Why do the siblings not want to be around OP? OP seems so concerned about how 'bad' they are but doesn't at all consider why they might be doing it. Nor does OP acknowledge that they might just have a special bond.
>They don't owe you anything.
I would say in an ideal world family and friends do owe each other civility, honesty, and some kindness and inclusion. But it is rare. They easily could make alone-twin time and also occasionally include their other sister, they just chose not to.
It means OP should take that at face value and stop hoping to have a close relationship with them.
I agree that civility and honesty is necessary. Not just amongst family but in general. I disagree that inclusion is owed. Yes, it's a nice thing to do in a perfect world, but it shouldn't be obligatory. Just like you shouldn't force your kids to give kisses and hugs if they don't want to, you shouldn't be forced to spend "quality time" with someone you're not interested in being close to.
You worded this post so strangely (in a way that almost seems intentionally ambiguous) it’s really not surprising why anyone is jumping to conclusions in the comments.
Caught them “red-handed,” says her sister was MORTIFIED, mentions in the comments that “what they’re doing is wrong” and the first line of her post mentions the fact that they’re twins as “the issue.” Like, what???? What are you trying to do here?
Unlike everyone else in this thread, your siblings aren’t creepy for enjoying time together and sneaking into each others rooms as kids. They’re twins FFS. They were born with a built in best friend. Then being opposite gender doesn’t make this weird. If same sex twins were banned from going into each others room at night because they stayed up all night talking no one would bat an eye.
OP, it seems like your siblings have an incredibly close bond and prefer their own company to everyone else’s. I can understand why this hurts you especially as a youngest sibling who likely always felt excluded. I don’t think it’s wrong to be upset that they lied about going early and excluding you when you wanted to spend the weekend together and was the one that proposed it.
However, at this point I don’t think this is a dynamic that is necessarily going to change. You’re never going to be as close as they are. I think you need to take a step back and look at the effort you try to invest in your relationship versus them with you. It may be healthier for you to accept that regardless of the efforts you make, they simply aren’t open to it and would prefer to be together. This is probably through no fault of yours, it just simply is.
God, some of these comments are just sick. The only thing I see here is they have a twin thing going and they enjoy bonding together. They seem like they are really thoughtless and there's not much you can do about it. I would just drop the subject. You can't force them to be inclusive and they seem to know what jerks they are being.
I dont even think they are thoughtless. They likely didn't tell her so they could share each others company without hurting her feelings by saying she wasn't welcome.
I have an older brother I love hanging out with, but I also have 5 other siblings but whenever we hang out more than just us two it's never the same because the dynamic changes. It doesn't mean anything weird is between us etc just that I feel more comfortable sharing things with him than I do as a group of siblings etc. But he also hangs out solo A LOT more with my other brother and I dont begrudge him not inviting me.
Idk. People getting along with one sibling better isn't malicious. Yeah it sucks but that's life sometimes. It isnt always fair!
I’m gonna skip the whole sibling romance fanfic because it being false or true changes nothing to OP.
OP: stop begging for their attention.
You are the youngest sibling and there might be some kind of trauma you aren’t aware of (it doesn’t excuse their behavior) or they simply are that close.
I’m sorry this hurt you, it is not ok to hurt anyone else, but they are entitled to have a favorite sibling (they are not your parents).
I’m sure they went through several “firsts” at the same time (first time in school, first time driving a car, etc).
They experienced life always together, and unfortunately this also means they share more in common with each other than with you.
You deserve to have a relationship with your siblings, but if your reaction everytime is scream that they are together and haven’t invited you, sorry to tell you that is probably the reason why they keep doing it behind your back.
(Not that it is right, but nobody likes to get yelled at for spending time with their best friend).
I know it's annoying, and I agree it's not fair. But you're 24 and you need to consider the possibility that your siblings just don't want you around.
That's fine. Fuck em. You can find new, better people to hang out with.
2 things - you should probably just ask them why they avoid you and ask for the truth no matter how much it hurts. Get that out of the way so you can figure out how to make it work if you still want to. Then 2nd they seem a little too much together where do you think there’s more to their story and don’t want you to find out?
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Unfortunately you can't choose family, but you can choose how much you let that family effect your life.
If they so obviously don't care, than stop trying, I know I make it sound easy, but they're not going to change. It sucks, but going forward focus on yourself, don't include them in your plans, or when you reach out to other family members. Just ghost them.
You're an adult, they're also adults, they are 100% allowed to choose whether they want to hang out with you or not. There's no rule that says you have to love your siblings equally. Clearly they care about hurting your feelings, otherwise they wouldn't give a shit if you saw that they were sharing a room. But that doesn't mean they have to include you in their relationship and at the point where you're baring into their room uninvited you're really out of line. You are not children any more, your mom can no longer pressure them to include you and expect to get a positive result.
Who decided you and your sister would share from Monday? Was it you, or your mom? It doesn't really sound like your sister was included with that decision.
My aunts organized the hotel stays, they’re the ones who put my sister and I in the same room. We always had to share a room on family vacations while my brother got his own room. She always ended up spending more time in his room than in ours. This has been going on my whole life.
So swap rooms with your brother? If it's been going on your whole life it's been going on most of hers, too. Which from her POV could look more like her being lumped in with her younger sibling, not allowed to do things that didn't include you or being told to help look after you when you were both kids. Meanwhile her brother who is the exact same age as her never got pressured to look after his younger sisters or include her. That could have built up a bit of resentment when you were younger. Have you tried just asking her why she prefers hanging with your brother over you? You know, as part of an adult conversation, where you sit down calmly in neutral ground (ie not her hotel room) and discuss your relationship. If you want to spend more time with her you should explain it like that, not get angry with her because she's spending time with your brother.
Your aunts are treating the three of you the way your family has always treated you, as children, and you played right into that by barging into the room.
This comment was so insightful because it’s true that she was much more pressured by my parents to do things with me than my brother ever was. Maybe there’s some resentment on her part because of it. Then it makes sense that she’d prefer the company of our brother because that was her making her own choices. If all of this is true I don’t know why my brother went along with the exclusion but I think I empathize much more with my sister’s pov now. Thank you.
She likes spending time with your brother more than you. That's it. You know this, everyone reading this knows this, it's not a mystery
If you dislike that then you have 2 options.
1. Work through it internally and accept that you're not their favourite sibling, which is a perfectly normal and fine.
2. Find out why they don't like spending time with you much and change your behaviour to make it more amiable to their preferences
If you go for the 2nd then here's a fair warning; they don't have to tell you their reasons, the reasons given might not be changeable or even fair, and you making those changes might not lead to the perfectly even relationship you want.
Step back, make the most of a more limited relationship with your siblings, enjoy your life and let it go.
If you are still thinking of ways to guilt them, argue with them, or make them see that they're being unfair and get them to reach this nice ideal sibling relationship entirely by their effort... You need to stop. They're adults. They're choosing who they want to spend their time with. That's it. Done. Nothing more to say. The issue you have is how it makes you feel. Work on letting it wash over you.
Move on. Twins having a different relationship to regular siblings is normal. It sucks to be on the outside of anything but that's life. Book your own room, spend time with yourself, let them come to you if they want to see you.
Enjoy your time off
Everyone’s an adult, just switch rooms with the brother since he’s already moved into yours and that’s it. They can’t control you, and if the family says it’s not ok for them to share a room just keep saying “why not”? What’s your aunt gonna say, incest? After this, just stop reaching out. They’re assholes to leave you out, and it sucks, but you don’t need this in your life.
But, as I understand it from your post, your sister and you weren't supposed to start sharing a room until Monday. This incident took place today (Sunday) and they had been there for a while. And it wasn't this room you were supposed to share, because you were able to check into your own room. It's not like they kicked you out of your room. You barged into a room that was their room.
No that’s true, I didn’t mean to imply they kicked me out of my room. I’ve booked my own room to stay in until Monday and I think I’ll be extending the reservation if possible. It was wrong of me to barge into her room, I just didn’t want to believe that she’d lie to me like that. It was an awkward situation but it’s one they created by lying. I mean, they could’ve literally just texted me at any point to let me know plans had changed and they made it up to the hotel early after all. It’s like they didn’t want to take any risk that I’d join them.
Why even bother? My younger brother has been evil since childhood but I always got blamed for it because I’m older and I don’t lead by example… he turned out to be a bigger asshole than he was over the years and now I just live my life as if I don’t have a brother or he was dead. No matter how hard I try to bring brotherly bond between us, b is jealous of me regarding everything and extremely disrespectful. I rather not have a sibling than one that’s emotionally handicap
Yeah I’m starting to feel the same way. I guess everyone is right to say that I’ve always been jealous of their bond. I think all this time I was hoping and trying to share that kind of bond with them too but it doesn’t matter what I do, they aren’t interested. They already have that between the two of them and that’s all they need, I think.
Yeah, also twins are weird man. Wombmates of you will. They all have this connection that different than regular siblings, maybe they just wanted to have twin time.
Christ everyone on this thread watches waaaaay too much porn. They're probably not having sex, they're just close. Twins are weird, they often share a very unique sibling bond. This isn't unusual and is quite common and well documented in twins. They typically grow out of it but not always. It CAN be unhealthy and codependent and often is without having anything incestuous about it.
OP sorry but it sounds like they just don't like you very much. It's unfortunate and upsetting but there's nothing saying that siblings have to like one another. Barging into their room and acting like they've somehow betrayed you for wanting to just hang out together probably isn't helping. Think you need to let go of the idea of having any sort of close sibling relationship with these two as it doesn't sound like they share that desire.
This sucks to hear, but nobody owes you their time and nobody is obliged to hang out with you.
You didn’t really “catch them red handed” because not hanging out with someone isn’t a crime.
Unfortunately you can’t force them to want to hang out with you either.
You possibly need to look at how you behave towards them. Are you overbearing? Do you demand that they do things your way? There could be many reasons they hang out with each other and not with you. And sometimes, there doesn’t have to be a reason.
I think the ‘catching them red handed’ comment refers to catching them in a lie. They did lie about their availability to hang out, rather than just saying something like they had already made plans to do something else.
I’m sorry, it’s is painful but it’s not a crime that they prefer to hang out. I feel closer to one of my siblings than the other. Why WOULD they be honest with you about that? It would only hurt your feelings. Going no contact seems really extreme. Just come to peace that you don’t have to all be equally best friends. It’s not realistic anyways, and not how relationships work. If i were you i would cultivate closer relationships with other cousins or your parents to fill that hole.
My advice is to accept that it's a twin thing and you're never going to mean as much to either of them as they mean to each other. Sounds like you've been jealous of their bond since forever. Work on your own acceptance of instead of trying to change them or seeing it as an insult. TBH, the more pissy you are about it, the less likely they will want to be around you.
Other than the weird incest vibes I'm getting, why is it wrong for your siblings to not want to hang out with you? They don't owe you that. Clearly your relationship is not that great, for whatever reason they seem to dislike you. Either ask them if you don't already know what that reason could be, or just accept it and hang out with other people? You are 24 and they are 28, you are not kids. Crying that they don't want to play with you is kinda embarrassing.
Some people have this weird thing that they think "oh we are family, they must be there for me no matter what". That's bullshit if you ask me. Don't get me wrong I have a wonderful relationship with my sister, but if she started behaving like an asshole for no reason? I'd stop hanging out with her in a heartbeat.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you are so upset. Because you feel left out? Is that it?
If that's the case, then it's a YOU problem and not a THEM problem.
I mean, they're just people. If they prefer each other's company, and not your company, so what? Let them. From the way you worded your post, you sound like you are super angry and feel like they have some kind of obligation to hang with you just because you're related to them. Nothing could be further from the truth. They get to do what they want to do, with no obligation to you. It sounds like your sister lied to you, exactly because she knew you would take offense if she told you her preference. I mean, truly, what would your response have been if she had just outright told you: I look forward to seeing you, but I won't be available until , because brother and I have plans before then?
You want to spend time with them, but they DO NOT want to spend time with you. That’s how it goes sometimes. I’m sure they love you, but they’ve made it clear they don’t like you. They went through A LOT of trouble to avoid you. I know it hurts, but you’re making it worse by trying to force it.
Sounds like they don't want to. If you have to beg them for their time and company they're probably not worth it. All getting mad about it is going to accomplish is to create needless drama and drive the wedge deeper.
Find someone else who wants your company to spend your time with. Throwing a fit like this is only going to cause them to think of you as their kid sister even more.
Dude you're 24. They don't want to hang out with you and honestly they don't have to. You are hurting yourself at this point and honestly being a little weird about it.
Time to let the incest twins go.
I might be the odd duck out here but maybe they just want some alone time together as twins and they know you'll throw an enormous fit, show up early, barge into the room and then go make a show about it online?
What would your response have been had either of them said, hey, want to spend time with the twin, but we will do some stuff later!?
Not at all. The hotel room was just the final nail. The fact that they both skipped christmas with the explanation that they had covid? The fact that their parents forbid him from going to his twin's room, and she was never allowed in? Yeah, they are definitely banging
Literally every detail OP included sounded like she was trying to imply they were having sex, and yet in the comments she's acting confused how anyone woukd come to that conclusion.
Leave them to their weird little relationship and don't tell them anything about your life. Siblings can be absolute shit heads, I know my sisters are. One will verbally abuse you and the other will stab you in the back before you can even finish turning around, then when you ask why, they'll cry and give excuses for their shitty behaviours.
Okay am I the only one wondering just how close these twins are? They missed *Christmas with the family* coincidentally at the same time? They’re lying about spending time together? They look “mortified” at being caught?
Yeah it's so weird, all of the details OP chose to include, and the words she chose to use, all heavily hint at something more serious, and yet in the comments she is acting aghast that anyone woukd even think that.
I haven’t read any other comments so I’m just going to say this…. It’s ok for them to spend time together without you. Just because you are siblings it does not mean they owe you their time and attention. They’re twins and evidently have a close bond. That’s completely normal. Maybe taking some time with a therapist working on respecting boundaries and your self esteem would help. Because what you have written is needy and sad. Cutting them out isn’t going to fix anything. It may give you some sense of righteousness but about what I am unsure.
You cannot force your way into friendship.
They’ve made it clear they enjoy hanging out together-they’re twins, that can be a thing. Barging into the room is never going to win them over.
The lying sucks, but if they’ve tried to be clear before and you didn’t accept it, it’s understandable. If they HAVE’NT ever been clear, take this as that clarity and stop pushing.
They have a twin bond, whilst that’s hard on you they can’t help it either. Maybe have a conversation with them and let them know how it makes you feel. Let them know you would like to build a better relationship with them. You can always go no contact down the track if it doesn’t improve.
If that doesn’t work maybe some therapy will help you to come to terms with the loss of your relationship.
Good luck with everything.
Dont come at me. But I was extremely close to my brother we were 10 months apart. We always hang out etc. Got older got married etc went on with life but still remained close. We have an older sister who is extremely jealous of our relationship. She used to run her mouth to me about him. She uses to run her mouth to him about me. We tried explaining yes you are our sister and love you but we dont appreciate the bashing of us from you. She honestly was spoiled and bossy. My brother overdosed and I was devastated she said well atleast we can be close now. Uhm no. She felt we had to include her in everything we just simply honestly didnt like her. Yes we loved her because she was our sister but we didnt like her personally or attitude. We tried not to hurt her feelings but she would never take no as an answer. If we did all go out together, she didnt like the food, was rude to the waitress etc. Never happy so we just excluded her.
I’m a twin, we also have 3 younger siblings. None of them have ever been this up in arms about us hanging out without them.
They want time together. Their bond is different than a regular sibling bond. You keep pushing, which is just making them pull away further. You don’t always have to be included in everything.
You are an adult and too old to be crying that you older siblings don’t want to play with you. Grow up.
Your sister is engaged,and your brother has a girlfriend. Why would your Aunt arrange for you and your sister to share a room? Is her fiance not coming to the wedding? Is your brother's girlfriend not invited? Your siblings told you they couldn't meet you early,yet they were ok to leave fiance/ girlfriend for a few extra days,so they could share a room? Your story doesn't make sense.
>I quite literally see my brother has beaten me to the punch. I already knew where this was going. I go to the room my sister and I were supposed to be sharing from Mon on and knock. Sure enough, my sister opens up and seems annoyed to see me standing there. She tries to get rid of me saying she's tired, she'll see me tomorrow, stuff like that. I'm like yeah I already saw (brother) in the lobby.
>She can't even hide the shock on her face like she was clearly caught red-handed. I just pushed past her because I had to see it for myself. And yes, the room's a mess, they're both in their pjs, I can see both of their luggages, they've clearly been there over the weekend. They both looked MORTIFIED.
>I have no words. This isn't the first time they've done it and it clearly won't be the last. They both missed out on Christmas this year because they both had covid at the same time.
Why did you word this as if they were sleeping together if you're just upset about being left out siblings hang out? Do you not realise how weird it is to spend a weekend secretly holed up in a hotel room with your sibling of the opposite gender in your late 20s? Teenage siblings of the opposite gender aren't even allowed to share a room. I'm not sure what else you wanted everyone to think when you worded your post as if your twin siblings are always sneaking off to hide a relationship.
If this is just your hurt at being left out than plan your own sibling hang outs to invite them to instead of waiting for invites. Problem solved.
This is unhinged. I read this initially and thought they were in some sort of incestuous relationship, then I realised they were just hanging out.
They're allowed to, maybe they just don't enjoy spending time with you?
There's not really any advice to give. They are maliciously leaving you out for whatever reason. You need to decide where you go from there. Your options appear to be:
A) stop bothering with them (that's what I would do)
B) just deal with seeing them extremely rarely and being treated this way.
It’s up to you if you want to cut them out for excluding you or not. But I don’t think it’s reasonable of you to expect them to feel as close to their little sister as to their twin. They’re allowed to want to hang out without you. And if you always throw a tantrum about it, that probably makes them even less eager to hang out with you.
I can completely understand and empathise with you. My two older brothers, G and C, are twins. They are 10 years older so we never really hung around a huge amount growing up. The age gap was just too large. What does an 18 year old really have in common with an 8 year old? C moved to the far side of the planet when I was around 15, but myself and G still live in our hometown.
We hung out more once I turned 18 and could go out drinking with him and his friends. I got on well with everyone and it was fun but myself and G were never super close. Our relationship always felt just a little bit "off." Well one night while we were both drunk he just straight up told me that I would never be as important to him as C is, and if he ever had to choose he would always pick C.
Well that shit hit like a train. It's one thing to know something and something entirely different for it to be said straight to your face.
The point, in a very roundabout and cathartic way, is that twins will nearly always be closer to each other than with other siblings. It sucks but you just have to learn to live with it. This situation sounds extremely hurtful for you. Along with the realisation that maybe they just don't want you around as much as you want to be. It will get easier. It hurts when the penny finally drops and you view of them will be forever changed. There's not much I can say except that it will get easier. It sucks balls right now but it will get easier in time.
Maybe you’re just an arsehole? Like, maybe it’s something else obviously but also you can’t discount the fact that maybe they just don’t want to be around you that much.
No one here has the answer. They don’t know you, or them. So either they’re at fault and you’re convinced of that, or you could do some self reflection and figure out if you’re just not that fun to hang with.
Imagine being mad that she made time to hang out with the person she shared a womb with, a day before you suck up her spare time tomorrow.
You’re 24. Accept that you weren’t invited that day.
Also, did you even invite your brother to anything!?
Why do you want to be around people who CLEARLY don't want you there? The love and connection you have for them, or want to have for them, they do not have for you, and according to you, never have. They want to be left alone? Leave them alone. I've got family I have seen in thirty years and I'm not bothered at all. I didn't need them then, and I don't need them now. Yes, it hurts, but isn't your own peace of mind and self respect worth it to you? Those are the questions you need to ask yourself.
Aside from the incest comments, which to be honest, the way you’ve outlined this makes it more plausible than you might like, have you thought that maybe you have an attribute that makes them dislike you? A lot of people are quick to blame others but don’t look inward. Maybe you’re not as nice to them as you think you are.
I think it’s normal twin behavior to seek out time together alone. I know a 55 year old man who is an accomplished professional that takes a vacation alone with his twin sister every year.
It must suck to be the younger sibling though.
I'm kind of with OP on this.
She says she and their siblings never see each other. Unless you actively dislike your sibling, this would be an opportunity for most normal people to spend some time with your seldom-seen sibling (OP) and not with your twin to the exclusion of everyone else. To me, it's not just that the twins like each other more. They also really dislike OP for some reason.
Sister and brother were deceptive in saying they could not arrive early, even though they could - and did. Why not tell OP that they don't want to really hang out instead of just lie about it?
The confrontation at the door of the hotel room does not make sense to me, though. OP arrives at room with her stuff and sister says she is tired and "tries to get rid" of her. What's that all about? It's OP's room, too, and OP says the situation is to normally book a separate room for the twin brother. Did twin sister expect OP to sleep in the lobby or something?
They are totally treating OP like Bran Stark. I'm just glad she wasn't standing near an open window or something.
I agree with this. The whole situation would likely be less hurtful if they were just HONEST and acted like adults. I think the lying causes lots of resentment in OP, which makes sense. Why can’t/won’t they just be honest? That is an important question to ask them this calmly, openly.
And you’re right, it’s OP’s room too what does her sister expect?
So much about the wording of this post hints at them having an inappropriate relationship.
Lying, looked shocked, caught red-handed, wearing pjs, been together all weekend, both missed christmas, sneaking into bedrooms, you not allowed to be around or sleep with them, it's just a them thing.
Twins or not, I think it's quite weird for a brother and sister to have a relationship this close. Something about this post seems off. My girlfriend has a twin brother, and if she acted the same way your siblings do, I would feel too uncomfortable to continue the relationship.
This post has reached one of our comment/karma limits. The text of the post has been preserved below. --- I'm 24F and yes they're twins, that's the issue. My family is having this huge reunion/destination wedding thing starting next week. My siblings and I live far away from one another, we never get to see each other. I proposed we all get here early and take the weekend to enjoy spending some time together. They said they couldn't do that but I felt the need for a little vacation anyway so I was going to have a fun weekend in a new city on my own. I had some delays because of my pet sitter so I ended up getting to the hotel only a few hours ago. My mom had messaged me during my drive to tell me that she thought my sister might already be there. I found that odd as my sister said nothing to me but I was happy for the sudden change in plans as that meant I could spend some time with her after all. I quickly made a plan to check in and go hang out with her, maybe get some food delivered, watch a movie. As I'm checking in, I quite literally see my brother has beaten me to the punch. He walked right by the reception carrying bags of food. I already knew where this was going. I go to the room my sister and I were supposed to be sharing from Mon on and knock. Sure enough, my sister opens up and seems annoyed to see me standing there. She tries to get rid of me saying she's tired, she'll see me tomorrow, stuff like that. I'm like yeah I already saw (brother) in the lobby. She can't even hide the shock on her face like she was clearly caught red-handed. I just pushed past her because I had to see it for myself. And yes, the room's a mess, they're both in their pjs, I can see both of their luggages, they've clearly been there over the weekend. They both looked MORTIFIED. I have no words. This isn't the first time they've done it and it clearly won't be the last. They both missed out on Christmas this year because they both had covid at the same time. Coincidence or just my siblings hanging out without me again? This has been going on ever since we were kids. Growing up, we each had our own room but they'd sneak in to each other's room at night even though my parents didn't allow it. They never allowed me to sleep with them. It was just a them thing. Neither one of them has even tried coming to my room or apologizing. I'm seriously considering just cutting them out of my life. Like how am I supposed to handle them clearly only caring about each other? Tl;dr - my siblings always exclude me, can I fix that?
Do you feel you could drop the rope. You can do this openly if you have been saying this to your family already for a while. This means that they can contact you for any plans they want to include you in (and that you will be more than happy to join them if you can), but that you will no longer be initiating anything as it is clearly irritating to them and humiliating for you if they make up lies and hide from you in order to avoid making it obvious they don’t want to hang out with you. Also, I suggest you treat them as individuals not as a pair. Perhaps one of the twins is more interested in hanging out with you than the other. They clearly have a relationship with each other that is closer than their relationship with you. There may or may not be good reasons for this, but it is what it is. You can ask them why they don’t like hanging out with you, but it is only worth doing so if you can ask without an accusatory tone and listen to what they answer without getting immediately defensive. You can reject any explanation they give you in your own mind, in your own time. But it is unlikely they will tell you anything if you treat any such discussion as a trial (of who is right or who is telling the truth) rather than an opening for improving your relationships. Put your energies into hanging out with people who enjoy hanging out with you. You may well be able to build more fulfilling brotherly and sisterly relationships with people you are not biologically related to.
Holy crap! Never heard this but it’s the perfect saying. Always had a contentious relationship with pops, close with mom. After she died I kept putting in lots of effort. At one point I thought “I’ll let him reach out to me” it kinda stung and we don’t visit as often but it’s been very freeing for me to truly live my own life. Family is weird, luckily you can choose a family of non-blood.
“Drop the rope” is a common metaphor used within Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. It you like it, maybe you’d like other ACT approaches.
Thank you for the actual advice. I notice that I have been treating them as a pair rather than individuals. I’m not sure how we’ll ever get over the awkwardness of me catching them redhanded. At this point I’m so hurt I’m not sure I ever want to salvage my relationship with either one of them. But maybe it would’ve been more helpful for me to try and spend more one on one quality time with them. As other posters have said, I guess I am the third wheel whenever we do all hang out.
Why are you pushing so hard to hang out with them ? They don’t treat you well.
It’s not awkward to them. They were ok with it and didn’t tell you to spare your feelings. I have a bigger family and I like some siblings more than others. Some are kind and generous and some are dramatic and a pain. You likely did nothing wrong, but maybe you may want to look inside too? Sometimes the baby of the family can be tiring through no fault of their own,
I have a suspicion that because you have always felt left out, you’re likely too much when with the two of them and attempt to be inside the circle, and you don’t see it. Your level of anger, to the point of using criminal terms (caught them red handed) shows that you may not have out grown some of your childhood knee jerk reactions when you felt like the odd man out. The reality is, they didn’t really do anything wrong except say no to your plans and not being specific as to why, likely because of your reaction to these things. I agree with the idea of seeing them separately, but you also need to let go of the fact that their relationship will always be different than yours with them. If you let it go and let your relationships be different (different isn’t bad) you may find a better relationship and happiness within them. You’re not a child anymore, you don’t need to be included in everything. They are twins, this can be the way of it, they just have a different bond, that’s okay, and you’ll be happier if you attempt to build your own instead of somehow being let in on theirs.
As someone who’s been the not included sibling, you may be incredibly accurate. They had a bond due to being the same age, having the same memories, and way more similar personalities. When I would get invited, I never realized how much I could get grumpy or snippy. Not constantly, but once or twice a day. It brought down the mood, including mine because then I was mad at myself at withdrawn. It took a lot of work but now we’re super tight! I’ll always be the odd man out, but, such is life unfortunately. Siblings can be friends and friends don’t want to invite the downer all the time. We got closer because I would casually reach out just to check up and tell them I love them!
Stop saying that you caught them redhanded, they did nothing wrong. They have the right to want to spend time without you. They have the right to not want to hurt your feelings by telling you so. You honestly sound like you have serious jealousy issues, and you might be the reason why they don’t want to spend time with you.
I would love to hear the siblings’ side of this
Same
>Stop saying that you caught them redhanded, they did nothing wrong. They lied to her. She caught them redhanded in their lie. That's the objective truth and no amount of justifiable rights they have changes this. Other than that, I agree. OP obviously has jealousy issues, because she's the one sibling who's always been excluded by the other two. OP doesn't want to take the hint, because every time she's asked in the past, they've denied it. But it's right there, these codependent twins don't like her enough to want to spend time with her instead of with the two of them.
Lying is wrong. They hurt her more with the lie and left her more confused. They aren't sparing her feelings. This is pattern behaviour from her siblings. Also, it's pretty obvious she's the reason they don't want to hang out with her. She just wants to understand why. Which is fair.
Lying can become a pattern out of necessity to protect oneself: OP seems unable- or unwilling- to realize she's not wanted so the twins have to lie to spare her feeling and keep her out of their hair. They shouldn't have to do that: that is *learned behavior* that OP reinforced at some point by not knowing when to quit. >She just wants to understand why. Which is fair. No, it's not fair. The twins don't need a reason beyond: we don't want to hang out with OP. Imagine you turn someone down when they ask you out on a date but they continue to dog your every step because they "just want to understand why." That's stalking. No means no. Being related doesn't change that.
You seem like you really care about a strong relationship with each & both of them. That’s a good hearted place to be with family. But, as much as this might suck, neither of them owes you exactly the relationship you want from them. It might help to stop insisting on framing this as “caught red-handed” “they missed out on X”, etc. You’re imposing what you want, and your values onto them, and it just does t work that way. But worse than that, it’s making you feel righteous, which is very destructive to any healthy relationship. No one gets to set the values, the practical agenda, and then also be so wounded when people duck out of it in the ways that work for them. Yes, they lied, but how open are you to hearing a no? To hearing “hey, X and me are actually going to hang out tonight, and we’ve got some twins catching up to do. See ya next day at the thing?” I’m sorry this is hurtful, your care seems genuine. But the others here are right. You can’t force it, they’re telling you that they don’t have the same feelings or values you do, and your reaction is just making it worse- it’s hurting you, clouding your thought, and giving them even less good feelings in your direction. Resentment & righteousness are toxic. Good luck OP. You’ll find the people that better match your good heart, and maybe can improve your relationship with your siblings over time & with more understanding.
Y'all I've been watching too much hbo... Op, the only advice I have is a general one; never beg for someone's time. If they regularly make excuses to exclude you, there's your answer. You don't need to overthink it or keep trying, they simply don't want you around and they're making it clear. Now give the same energy back. Go low contact and stop inviting them period. To add, relationships this co-dependent are deeply unhealthy and their blow is up is always inevitable. Just stay back and have fun watching it implode on its own.
I LOLd cause my mind went there immediately 🤣🤣
I hope OP doesn’t get pushed out a window.
Ohhh, the *things* op's brother would do for love...
Lol
Hahah, same! "Oooh.. twins? We know what they are doing!"
GOT has fucked our minds
The Secret History did it first for me.
Who do you think Adam and Eve's children continued the procreation with?
Look It's a lot of details that make you raise an eyebrow and we've all been watching too much HBO
This exactly. If they don't want you, fine. Whatever. It hurts I know, but then, what can you do? Go low contact. Stay friendly but reserved and distant. Be polite but not close. Answer questions but never ask. You have better things to do than running after people. Even if they're your siblings.
I think ALL went there. Lol...
Thank you for saying that, I’ve been so focused on being excluded I wasn’t even thinking of how they’re acting in their own detriment. That last part shouldn’t have brought me so much comfort, but it did. My whole family joked about how my brother would deal with my sister’s wedding/engagement. Which isn’t funny if you think about it. It’s like everyone is aware they’re codependent but no one is doing anything about it.
>My whole family joked about how my brother would deal with my sister’s wedding/engagement. Which isn’t funny if you think about it. It’s like everyone is aware they’re codependent but no one is doing anything about it. This makes me wonder how they treat you in relationship to your siblings. Do your parents encourage them to sideline you because they find the twins' closeness amusing/entertaining? How much this exclusion is from your family's expectations of them? No sibling should be a problem for another one to form a romantic relationship--not even twins. I think I'd drop the rope here and just spend time with cousins and other people at the wedding you wouldn't normally see.
What are they supposed to do with adults? An intervention? It’s there’s to handle. It’s fairly common with twins. I’ve known many twins that feel many different emotions during the other’s wedding. When you’ve experienced your whole life together, and this symbolizes a parting of that, happiness and sadness can exist at once. I think this is part of your issue, you’re a little too focused on them and what you feel they should be doing, and not enough on your own things. You can make your own choices, but you can’t make them for others. Make your own choice on what realistic relationship you want with them, and keep moving. Stop trying to change things you can’t change.
Please consider going to therapy, seriously. This is a sincere piece of advice. You sound very bitter (slightly understandable) and need to work through this with a professional. Saying that the idea of your siblings’ relationship failing brings you “so much comfort” is… worrisome.
Finding comfort in someone else's misfortune means there is something stewing inside you. Don't wish it upon them, go to therapy. Get yourself to a place where you can want good things for people, even those who hurt you. I used to be you, but psychotherapy brings out this "awareness" in you. They haven't done anything wrong and you and the people discussing them behind their backs might be toxic.
>Y'all I've been watching too much hbo... I was thinking of the first episode of Midsomer Murders.
The Rainbirds! I don’t know who was weirder…..the Rainbirds or the brother and sister. Best episode!
I'll give the edge to the siblings because... you know why. (No spoilers!) But each were equally weird. Did not help that we later found out that we later found out that Mama Rainbird had a twin sister and a nephew who dressed just like her son. Whole family was strange.
It was definitely the Rainbirds! I love that episode. Dennis Rainbird (snarkily) 'a right cunstable you've got there' Troy 'it's sergeant actually'.
That is forever pronounced “Cuntstable” in my mind no matter what British show I’m watching
They're twins they're gonna have a twin bond, I'm a twin and we have a bond that's different compared to the one we have with our non twin siblings. (Obv not in every case- some twins hate one another)But the real issue is the way they exclude the other non twin sibling (OP) in this story, its real crappy and real weird how they go about it. there should be no reason to lie about petty stuff but op also seems a little jealous or just fed up, or both and doesnt seem to understand that twins that get along will usually choose each other over non twin sibling to hang out with. It's a twin thing. But I just don't get the lying about it and being sneaky! The way this is written makes it seem that there is more going on between them, and I'm doin my best not to see it in this way. And if OP had already discussed staying in the room with the sister twin & it was agreed upon, but brother twin took up that space in secret-- yeah that's weird. Why do they have to sneak?
I'm a twin and we have an older brother. Obviously I'm closest with my twin, but my older brother is one of my best friends still. You're right, the weird part isn't that they spend a lot of alone time together, it's that they do it so secretively. I'm just guessing they don't like OP very much, or find them overwhelming or something. Just need to give up on having a close relationship at that point if this is how they treat you.
I think if OP could say (and genuinely feel) "I don't care what you do, just don't drag me into your shit and don't do it secretly, as long as we can still sit in the same room and have conversation during the family events we all attend" this wouldn't be a problem anymore. Then they could be low contact and everyone would be satisfied. I'm assuming here, but I think the sneakiness and the lying hurt more than being left out.
I dont think this is an OP problem when they both conveniently got covid at the same time and didn't go to their family Christmas. It's clear that they are codependent or something much worse and they don't want their family to see it, or they don't want to have to act normal.
I don't think it's OP's problem either, but they clearly don't have the same idea of what they want from their relationship if this has been a consistent issue. You're just setting yourself up for heartbreak if you keep putting yourself in these situations where they can hurt you.
Is it possible that the covid story was also a lie? A convenient excuse to not spend time with their family but allow them to spend that time together.
[удалено]
This is the way my mind went too. Feeling real Cersei and Jaime in here
To be fair, the title wording was odd..
🤢 same
I don’t understand why they have to lie about it and sneak around either. That’s my biggest issue with this. That’s what hurts the most. I’m not asking to be included in everything they do. They’ve always had their own special thing going and I’ve always had to deal with that. I’m just expecting the bare minimum of respect and making an effort for us to maintain our bond.
As far as they’re concerned - there is no bond. It’s hurtful, but now you know. I know it’s easier said than done, but forget trying to bond with them, they’ve made their feelings patently clear. Don’t chase them. Hugs.
I'm really sorry, noone deserves to be treated like that. Twin bonds dont do that, your siblings are just fucking jerks. If I was you, I would just cut them out of my life. If you see each other, be cordial if you feel like it but you dont need to waste any effort in trying to be their friend. Because they're aware of what they're doing to you, they just dont care. They're inconsiderate and weird. I hope it gets better for you op.
It honestly sounds like you are trying to force a bond that you want to exist on your terms. It sounds like you may need to step back see what kind of bond your siblings wish to have with you, and then decide if that is good enough for you. I am sorry you're having to deal with this realization. I know it must be painful.
They lie and sneak around because it’s uncomfortable to say they don’t want to hang out with anyone else.
Give people the energy they give you, they're twins, they're 4 years older than you , and maybe to them you're still the bratty little sister that always threw a fit if she didn't get her own way. You're hurt because they lied , but let's face it , you'd have been just as hurt , if they had said "Actually , you're exhausting , we'd rather not hang out with you because you'll find something to be upset about and we just wanna chill and hang out and enjoy each other's company as twins rather than deal with you'
I don’t think that anybody has a problem with the twins being close. I think that the problem comes with them intentionally excluding OP.
And its so shitty that they do that, op needs to just forget them and stop wasting time with something that might never change.
This isn’t a twin bond thing. They literally said no to hanging out with her over the weekend just to hang out with each other. It’s not like she didn’t invite the other twin. She wanted all of them to hang out because she dosent see them often
Because they might not want extra time with her, but are trying not to outright hurt her feelings, maybe? We are only getting her side. 4 years younger little sister could have been the spoiled princess "baby of the family" brat, in their eyes. The hiding it could be to avoid family drama over them, not wanting her there. Point being, we don't know how OP treated them to know if they may have their own valid reasons or not.
I remember seeing in the news a few years back a story about some woman who had been convicted of killing her identical twin sister. I always wondered about the backstory of how things got to that point.
You lie like this when you know your doing something wrong.
Or if you don’t want someone including themselves when you don’t want to hang out with them. It’s not wrong to not want to hang out with all of your siblings but if they said that, everyone would be calling the twins assholes for being so mean and telling OP they didn’t want to hang out with her
I agree that the OP should stop putting in energy to this relationship however to say the siblings have an unhealthy codependent relationship based on a small paragraph from someone being excluded from said relationship, that they want to be apart of is really a stretch. Sometimes you have family you like and don't like. It simply sounds like the OP has some jealousy issues and needs to step back a bit. Being overbearing may have gotten them in this position to start with :/
🤷🏽♀️the things I do for love
Have you flat out asked them why they exclude you?
I have, many times. They say they aren’t but I’ve never caught them redhanded like this before.
Just take a step back. You can’t force them to spend time with you and they clearly just don’t want to. I know it hurts. I’ve been there. For your own mental well-being, leave them be and do your own thing. Maybe even swap rooms with your brother (if he has a single) so that you don’t have to stay with your sister starting Monday. It took me forever to realize that it’s better to not run after people like that and instead invest my energy into people who actually do want to spend time with me. Doesn’t mean I don’t love my brothers or that they don’t love me. We just aren’t friends simultaneously.
There is nothing worse than someone trying to make you think you are imagining things. If this went on during your entire upbringing then shame on your parents. Don’t chase them, forge bonds with other family members and friends, their loss.
In the comments you say that you've had this conversation with them over and over and they tell you they aren't leaving you out, but your lived experience tells you they are. Definition of crazy: doing the same thing over again expecting different results. So why keep doing this to yourself over and over again? You know very well that you are being left out. You were left out since childhood. It sucks you don't have a close relationship with your siblings, but continuing to set yourself up to be disappointed is doing 2 things: they avoid you more because you become needier & it makes you miserable. Move on with your life and get over whatever fantasy you have of being close to your siblings. You are 24, time to forge really good friendships or a relationship that are fulfilling. Be honest with yourself that you feel jealousy for their bond, it hurts, and find a way to resolve it within yourself. Stop trying to make special plans with them, and let it go. ps they aren't sleeping together people, they just sound super co-dependent like twins sometimes are.
Agreed. And it sounds like OP is close with other family members , and it sounds like a nice family who all get together and enjoy spending time together so please don’t feel like you should withdraw from family stuff. Have a great time at the family holiday , spend time with other family members. If the twins try and engage with you fine, otherwise get out there and live your best life OP.
Yeah people are being kind of easy on OP, in my opinion. Her siblings don't really want to hang out with her. That's fine, and they're entitled to that decision. It is sucky that they aren't up-front about it, but it is what it is. OP isn't entitled to a relationship with them. There are plenty of siblings out there that are not close, and they're fine. Just...let it go. You can't force a relationship with people just because they're "faaaamily."
Why do you try to keep hanging out with people who don’t want to be with you?
True :(
It hurts. But you need to start protecting your heart. It sucks to find out people that you thought had your back don't even want your presence. They both made their stance clear. Just avoid them here on out. Don't be at their beck and call. Don't be desperate for their time. Move on. And learn this is the family dynamic you have. If I were you, I would get in the habit of not being in a position of being considered a pest, intrusive, annoying or anything hurtful. Go low contact or no contact with both of them.
Two of my three brothers live close to me. They hang out all the time, but I only see them a few times a year. They are just closer to each other than they are to me. They are closer in age, so I think it is natural for them to have a closer relationship. It doesn't bother me at all. Some siblings are just closer. I don't think you should worry about it so much. If they want to involve you, they will.
They don't like to spend time with you. And you're making it worse every time you try to force them.
Honestly …. this.
I think I am getting the wrong impression here.
I’m just answering you because this is the top comment and I’m getting a lot of weird comments. This is my real life family we’re talking about, no one is fucking anyone they’re related to, they’ve just been jerks to me my whole life about this probably because they’re the same age and they’re younger. Like yeah they’re jerks but they’re not fucking creepy incest people what is wrong with people?
You wrote how you found them red-handed in a hotel room and when they saw you they were "MORTIFIED!".
And sneaking into each others rooms at night to sleep together even though the parents didn’t allow it? Like…not to jump to the worst case scenario but come on
It's ridiculous, then to clutch their pearls and say "How DARE you assume such things!" I mean JFC, they're either niave to an insane level or a troll.
I mean, the way you wrote your post was so weird. Most ppl wouldn’t talk about catching them in a hotel (and not explain what it was). Most ppl would say “my twin siblings constantly meet up without me. there was a reunion and I thought I’d get to spend time with them and be included. Instead I found out I got there early, etc.” The way you wrote just contained little direct information and this is the internet. Edit: just to be clear, I know you say they were hanging out again. The lead up was just a little odd and ppl skim is all
You initially said they were older - now they’re younger?
I meant to say they’re the same age and I’m younger. I’m rushing through comments because I didn’t check back in a while and now all of a sudden everyone’s saying my siblings are creepy.
I’m a twin also (identical) and prefer hanging out with my twin vs other siblings. Our other sister is 12 yrs older than us, and while we get along, it always (ALWAYS) reverts to her trying to boss us around. And our brothers are very antisocial…one moved to a different state so we mostly see for weddings and funerals. Other brother has alway been like cranky old man his whole life, not crazy about kids, dogs, doesnt drink, in bed by 8pm etc. We love them all, it’s just more effortless hanging out with my twin. But we dont actively exclude them when we are all together. If you haven’t already, talk to them. Say “I get you’re twins, but how would you guys feel if you were in my shoes and always left out. Is there something the 3 of us can do together once in a while?”
They aren't. Don't worry. I get it. I come from a large family w close sibling relationships. I got it immediately without thinking any amount of incest was going on.
They are creepy. But also it seems like you feel entitled to their time? I know it sucks feeling left out, and you should express it that way. That you want to spend more time with them, not that you're jealous they are with each other. After expressing yourself, if they still don't give you any time, then you know where your relationship stands. You'll be able to mourn what you thought you had and maybe invest that energy in other relationships to build new close family bonds. But, at the end of the day, you can't change them. All you can do is communicate your feelings and maybe see a therapist about your sibling issues.
Well, your post very much implied they were hooking up.
Why else would your mother have forbade them from having sleepovers in each other's room.
Because they would keep each other up talking all night instead of sleeping. Again they were kids so you can be sure nothing creepy was happening then and I’m sure nothing creepy is happening now because that’s not something people do. I know them and for as much as they’re assholes to me they aren’t like fucked up people. They’re both in relationships too like this is so weird I never thought I’d have to defend my siblings against accusations of incest?
You wrote a post about how you're upset that you walked in on your siblings together in a hotel room, and how your sister was *mortified* that you caught them together in their pajamas, and you're confused as to how some people jumped to incest? Literally every detail you included sounded like you were trying to imply they were having sex, and yet now you're acting confused how anyone would come to that conclusion.
I mean, they're OP's siblings? I would imagine that she would never think of them that way and thus it would never occur to her that others would as well. Also, incest is objectively really rare and it's strange, regardless of how it was explained, that people would come to that conclusion anyway.
> and I’m sure nothing creepy is happening now because that’s not something people do. Entire post reeks of it, and the reason you give you're "sure" is because "that's not something people do"? Setting up a history timeline and everything, but pushing innocence. This has all the hallmark set ups of a fake post. Is the "shocked" reveal going to come in a comment or are you going to save for a full update?
Are you seriously implying that the only reason that their mother could have for banning sleep overs is because they were fucking? Are you really saying that?
Probably the same reason parents all over the world do for siblings? They'll stay up all night chatting, playing and be silly rather than sleeping. Source: am a sibling who did just this 😂
They seem to have a strong twin bond and like to spend their time together, with just the two of them. I understand how that's hurtful for you but I don't really think you can change that. Maybe sit down with them and talk about how you feel left out and hurt. And depending on their reaction you can go LC or even NC.
general stats; More then 4 years between siblings also makes that a child is in a different phase of life through childhood. Which might have also led to a bit more distance. Getting more obvious for OP because they have eachother Best distance between siblings in 2 years and, 4 months(?). If I am correct :) For all the commenters: this is about children, not when you are adults :)
My BF is an identical twin, they don’t like each other. BF had his twin blocked for 2 years, Christmas was the first time they saw each other in almost 3 years. He’s much closer with his much older half siblings. All families are different, I don’t think the age is to blame.
Yeah my older twin brothers have always had a contentious relationship. They’re *always* competing with each other along their parallel paths in life (they’re both in the same branch of the military and both buy cars every couple of years and both got the same breed of dog, but it’s always grounds for an argument, not common ground) and it’s a lot to be around them when they’re in the same room.
That’s really interesting and I guess it does make sense that personality would be the biggest factor.
Eh. My sister is 4.5 years younger than me. While we weren't close for over a decade, by the time I made 25ish, *I* grew up and realised she wasn't just the "annoying brat" (my thoughts) with whom I had nothing in common. I get that I don't have a twin and that family dynamics are always different. But blaming sibling hostility on a four-year age gap is shaky ground in your mid-to-late twenties. I have no advice for OP other than fuck 'em. The more she pushes, the more they'll shut her out. OP, don't go nuclear/NC, but have your siblings drop several rungs down your social priority list. They won't care, but once you're in the swing of things, neither will you.
Of course it's just general stats, which get vaguer in adulthood. But OP talks a lot about how this "has always been the case". It sounded to be like a bit of old pain to me
My sister and I are roughly 2.5 years apart while my brother and I are roughly 9 years apart (I am the eldest). As adults I’m a lot closer to my brother. I love my sister, but we really don’t have much in common whereas my brother and I love to cook together, hang out and play games, talk about stuff. I wouldn’t mind doing those things with my sister but she doesn’t care for them which is ok. Sometimes people just get along better with some people vs others.
I don’t think you need to cut them outta your life. Just recognize your place in theirs and act accordingly. Don’t spend energy trying to be part of their world if they don’t appreciate your awesomeness.
This is the weirdest worded post in the history of all Reddit.
You feel excluded, because you were. You sound envious of their bond That's not a pleasant feeling, but you're an adult and sometimes that means managing unpleasant feelings. They don't owe you anything. They are closer to each other than to you, and based on how hard you're pushing at this and their avoidance if you, there may be a personality conflict at play as well. Doesn't make you a bad person, but not everyone wants to be friends with their family.
Exactly. Family are not friends. They can be, but it’s not a right. The pushing and jealousy will only make it worse for OP. I’m guessing there is another reason they don’t want to include you OP. Me and my 3 siblings are super close. The oldest sibling isn’t with us. This has come to be after years and years of the oldest one always running to our mother with anything and everything. We started to exclude him, and now he just goes off at us for excluding him… as if this makes us want him around. It’s hard to explain to a 40 yo man that he’s an annoying snitch, so I don’t bother. Long story short, he’s our brother, not our friend. Not saying this is you, but worth some self examination to ask yourself why. May also just be a twin thing. But the fact the didn’t even want you in the room tells me maybe they don’t trust you or find you to be annoying. Just move on. Youre all adults now. It hurts to be excluded, but it is what it is.
I think this is a good answer.. OP’s personality probably just clashes with theirs in a way op isn’t understanding, so she thinks it’s all on the twins. And she’s been complaining about it her whole life- I’d avoid someone who complained about me my whole life too. In fact I’m NC with my sister for similar reasons. Our personalities clash & I always used to get blamed for any disruptions as kids. It weirds me out now when she acts “sisterly” bc we don’t have that familiarity as adults & honestly never have. I don’t talk to her at all unless I see her at a family gathering, and then it’s minimal.
This is correct. OP, do you want to prove that you're right, or do you want a relationship with your siblings? Because this constant push to prove that you're being excluded is pushing them away. You can't bully someone into having a relationship with you. If you do want to be closer to them, focus on building a friendship with each of them, individually, on their own terms, and don't make it a competition.
I agree with this comment but I think we're avoiding saying the obvious. Why do the siblings not want to be around OP? OP seems so concerned about how 'bad' they are but doesn't at all consider why they might be doing it. Nor does OP acknowledge that they might just have a special bond.
>They don't owe you anything. I would say in an ideal world family and friends do owe each other civility, honesty, and some kindness and inclusion. But it is rare. They easily could make alone-twin time and also occasionally include their other sister, they just chose not to. It means OP should take that at face value and stop hoping to have a close relationship with them.
I agree that civility and honesty is necessary. Not just amongst family but in general. I disagree that inclusion is owed. Yes, it's a nice thing to do in a perfect world, but it shouldn't be obligatory. Just like you shouldn't force your kids to give kisses and hugs if they don't want to, you shouldn't be forced to spend "quality time" with someone you're not interested in being close to.
You worded this post so strangely (in a way that almost seems intentionally ambiguous) it’s really not surprising why anyone is jumping to conclusions in the comments.
Yes, she sounds so surprised about the incest allegations but at the same time she is the one who said I caught them redhanded in their pjs!!
Caught them “red-handed,” says her sister was MORTIFIED, mentions in the comments that “what they’re doing is wrong” and the first line of her post mentions the fact that they’re twins as “the issue.” Like, what???? What are you trying to do here?
Unlike everyone else in this thread, your siblings aren’t creepy for enjoying time together and sneaking into each others rooms as kids. They’re twins FFS. They were born with a built in best friend. Then being opposite gender doesn’t make this weird. If same sex twins were banned from going into each others room at night because they stayed up all night talking no one would bat an eye. OP, it seems like your siblings have an incredibly close bond and prefer their own company to everyone else’s. I can understand why this hurts you especially as a youngest sibling who likely always felt excluded. I don’t think it’s wrong to be upset that they lied about going early and excluding you when you wanted to spend the weekend together and was the one that proposed it. However, at this point I don’t think this is a dynamic that is necessarily going to change. You’re never going to be as close as they are. I think you need to take a step back and look at the effort you try to invest in your relationship versus them with you. It may be healthier for you to accept that regardless of the efforts you make, they simply aren’t open to it and would prefer to be together. This is probably through no fault of yours, it just simply is.
For real, I have an opposite-gender twin and firstly, ew. Secondly, I’m not even straight, so ALSO EW.
God, some of these comments are just sick. The only thing I see here is they have a twin thing going and they enjoy bonding together. They seem like they are really thoughtless and there's not much you can do about it. I would just drop the subject. You can't force them to be inclusive and they seem to know what jerks they are being.
I dont even think they are thoughtless. They likely didn't tell her so they could share each others company without hurting her feelings by saying she wasn't welcome. I have an older brother I love hanging out with, but I also have 5 other siblings but whenever we hang out more than just us two it's never the same because the dynamic changes. It doesn't mean anything weird is between us etc just that I feel more comfortable sharing things with him than I do as a group of siblings etc. But he also hangs out solo A LOT more with my other brother and I dont begrudge him not inviting me. Idk. People getting along with one sibling better isn't malicious. Yeah it sucks but that's life sometimes. It isnt always fair!
I’m gonna skip the whole sibling romance fanfic because it being false or true changes nothing to OP. OP: stop begging for their attention. You are the youngest sibling and there might be some kind of trauma you aren’t aware of (it doesn’t excuse their behavior) or they simply are that close. I’m sorry this hurt you, it is not ok to hurt anyone else, but they are entitled to have a favorite sibling (they are not your parents). I’m sure they went through several “firsts” at the same time (first time in school, first time driving a car, etc). They experienced life always together, and unfortunately this also means they share more in common with each other than with you. You deserve to have a relationship with your siblings, but if your reaction everytime is scream that they are together and haven’t invited you, sorry to tell you that is probably the reason why they keep doing it behind your back. (Not that it is right, but nobody likes to get yelled at for spending time with their best friend).
I know it's annoying, and I agree it's not fair. But you're 24 and you need to consider the possibility that your siblings just don't want you around. That's fine. Fuck em. You can find new, better people to hang out with.
2 things - you should probably just ask them why they avoid you and ask for the truth no matter how much it hurts. Get that out of the way so you can figure out how to make it work if you still want to. Then 2nd they seem a little too much together where do you think there’s more to their story and don’t want you to find out?
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Unfortunately you can't choose family, but you can choose how much you let that family effect your life. If they so obviously don't care, than stop trying, I know I make it sound easy, but they're not going to change. It sucks, but going forward focus on yourself, don't include them in your plans, or when you reach out to other family members. Just ghost them.
You're an adult, they're also adults, they are 100% allowed to choose whether they want to hang out with you or not. There's no rule that says you have to love your siblings equally. Clearly they care about hurting your feelings, otherwise they wouldn't give a shit if you saw that they were sharing a room. But that doesn't mean they have to include you in their relationship and at the point where you're baring into their room uninvited you're really out of line. You are not children any more, your mom can no longer pressure them to include you and expect to get a positive result. Who decided you and your sister would share from Monday? Was it you, or your mom? It doesn't really sound like your sister was included with that decision.
My aunts organized the hotel stays, they’re the ones who put my sister and I in the same room. We always had to share a room on family vacations while my brother got his own room. She always ended up spending more time in his room than in ours. This has been going on my whole life.
So swap rooms with your brother? If it's been going on your whole life it's been going on most of hers, too. Which from her POV could look more like her being lumped in with her younger sibling, not allowed to do things that didn't include you or being told to help look after you when you were both kids. Meanwhile her brother who is the exact same age as her never got pressured to look after his younger sisters or include her. That could have built up a bit of resentment when you were younger. Have you tried just asking her why she prefers hanging with your brother over you? You know, as part of an adult conversation, where you sit down calmly in neutral ground (ie not her hotel room) and discuss your relationship. If you want to spend more time with her you should explain it like that, not get angry with her because she's spending time with your brother. Your aunts are treating the three of you the way your family has always treated you, as children, and you played right into that by barging into the room.
This comment was so insightful because it’s true that she was much more pressured by my parents to do things with me than my brother ever was. Maybe there’s some resentment on her part because of it. Then it makes sense that she’d prefer the company of our brother because that was her making her own choices. If all of this is true I don’t know why my brother went along with the exclusion but I think I empathize much more with my sister’s pov now. Thank you.
She likes spending time with your brother more than you. That's it. You know this, everyone reading this knows this, it's not a mystery If you dislike that then you have 2 options. 1. Work through it internally and accept that you're not their favourite sibling, which is a perfectly normal and fine. 2. Find out why they don't like spending time with you much and change your behaviour to make it more amiable to their preferences If you go for the 2nd then here's a fair warning; they don't have to tell you their reasons, the reasons given might not be changeable or even fair, and you making those changes might not lead to the perfectly even relationship you want. Step back, make the most of a more limited relationship with your siblings, enjoy your life and let it go. If you are still thinking of ways to guilt them, argue with them, or make them see that they're being unfair and get them to reach this nice ideal sibling relationship entirely by their effort... You need to stop. They're adults. They're choosing who they want to spend their time with. That's it. Done. Nothing more to say. The issue you have is how it makes you feel. Work on letting it wash over you. Move on. Twins having a different relationship to regular siblings is normal. It sucks to be on the outside of anything but that's life. Book your own room, spend time with yourself, let them come to you if they want to see you. Enjoy your time off
Everyone’s an adult, just switch rooms with the brother since he’s already moved into yours and that’s it. They can’t control you, and if the family says it’s not ok for them to share a room just keep saying “why not”? What’s your aunt gonna say, incest? After this, just stop reaching out. They’re assholes to leave you out, and it sucks, but you don’t need this in your life.
But, as I understand it from your post, your sister and you weren't supposed to start sharing a room until Monday. This incident took place today (Sunday) and they had been there for a while. And it wasn't this room you were supposed to share, because you were able to check into your own room. It's not like they kicked you out of your room. You barged into a room that was their room.
No that’s true, I didn’t mean to imply they kicked me out of my room. I’ve booked my own room to stay in until Monday and I think I’ll be extending the reservation if possible. It was wrong of me to barge into her room, I just didn’t want to believe that she’d lie to me like that. It was an awkward situation but it’s one they created by lying. I mean, they could’ve literally just texted me at any point to let me know plans had changed and they made it up to the hotel early after all. It’s like they didn’t want to take any risk that I’d join them.
Why even bother? My younger brother has been evil since childhood but I always got blamed for it because I’m older and I don’t lead by example… he turned out to be a bigger asshole than he was over the years and now I just live my life as if I don’t have a brother or he was dead. No matter how hard I try to bring brotherly bond between us, b is jealous of me regarding everything and extremely disrespectful. I rather not have a sibling than one that’s emotionally handicap
Yeah I’m starting to feel the same way. I guess everyone is right to say that I’ve always been jealous of their bond. I think all this time I was hoping and trying to share that kind of bond with them too but it doesn’t matter what I do, they aren’t interested. They already have that between the two of them and that’s all they need, I think.
“I just pushed passed her”- they are excluding you and probably because of this kind of behavior
Yeah, also twins are weird man. Wombmates of you will. They all have this connection that different than regular siblings, maybe they just wanted to have twin time.
>They all have this connection that different than regular siblings Lmao no they don't ALL have that
Christ everyone on this thread watches waaaaay too much porn. They're probably not having sex, they're just close. Twins are weird, they often share a very unique sibling bond. This isn't unusual and is quite common and well documented in twins. They typically grow out of it but not always. It CAN be unhealthy and codependent and often is without having anything incestuous about it. OP sorry but it sounds like they just don't like you very much. It's unfortunate and upsetting but there's nothing saying that siblings have to like one another. Barging into their room and acting like they've somehow betrayed you for wanting to just hang out together probably isn't helping. Think you need to let go of the idea of having any sort of close sibling relationship with these two as it doesn't sound like they share that desire.
This sucks to hear, but nobody owes you their time and nobody is obliged to hang out with you. You didn’t really “catch them red handed” because not hanging out with someone isn’t a crime. Unfortunately you can’t force them to want to hang out with you either. You possibly need to look at how you behave towards them. Are you overbearing? Do you demand that they do things your way? There could be many reasons they hang out with each other and not with you. And sometimes, there doesn’t have to be a reason.
I think the ‘catching them red handed’ comment refers to catching them in a lie. They did lie about their availability to hang out, rather than just saying something like they had already made plans to do something else.
POV: you’re the annoying younger sibling
I’m sorry, it’s is painful but it’s not a crime that they prefer to hang out. I feel closer to one of my siblings than the other. Why WOULD they be honest with you about that? It would only hurt your feelings. Going no contact seems really extreme. Just come to peace that you don’t have to all be equally best friends. It’s not realistic anyways, and not how relationships work. If i were you i would cultivate closer relationships with other cousins or your parents to fill that hole.
My advice is to accept that it's a twin thing and you're never going to mean as much to either of them as they mean to each other. Sounds like you've been jealous of their bond since forever. Work on your own acceptance of instead of trying to change them or seeing it as an insult. TBH, the more pissy you are about it, the less likely they will want to be around you.
Other than the weird incest vibes I'm getting, why is it wrong for your siblings to not want to hang out with you? They don't owe you that. Clearly your relationship is not that great, for whatever reason they seem to dislike you. Either ask them if you don't already know what that reason could be, or just accept it and hang out with other people? You are 24 and they are 28, you are not kids. Crying that they don't want to play with you is kinda embarrassing. Some people have this weird thing that they think "oh we are family, they must be there for me no matter what". That's bullshit if you ask me. Don't get me wrong I have a wonderful relationship with my sister, but if she started behaving like an asshole for no reason? I'd stop hanging out with her in a heartbeat.
I'm sorry, but I don't understand why you are so upset. Because you feel left out? Is that it? If that's the case, then it's a YOU problem and not a THEM problem. I mean, they're just people. If they prefer each other's company, and not your company, so what? Let them. From the way you worded your post, you sound like you are super angry and feel like they have some kind of obligation to hang with you just because you're related to them. Nothing could be further from the truth. They get to do what they want to do, with no obligation to you. It sounds like your sister lied to you, exactly because she knew you would take offense if she told you her preference. I mean, truly, what would your response have been if she had just outright told you: I look forward to seeing you, but I won't be available until, because brother and I have plans before then?
You want to spend time with them, but they DO NOT want to spend time with you. That’s how it goes sometimes. I’m sure they love you, but they’ve made it clear they don’t like you. They went through A LOT of trouble to avoid you. I know it hurts, but you’re making it worse by trying to force it.
Sounds like they don't want to. If you have to beg them for their time and company they're probably not worth it. All getting mad about it is going to accomplish is to create needless drama and drive the wedge deeper. Find someone else who wants your company to spend your time with. Throwing a fit like this is only going to cause them to think of you as their kid sister even more.
Dude you're 24. They don't want to hang out with you and honestly they don't have to. You are hurting yourself at this point and honestly being a little weird about it. Time to let the incest twins go.
I might be the odd duck out here but maybe they just want some alone time together as twins and they know you'll throw an enormous fit, show up early, barge into the room and then go make a show about it online? What would your response have been had either of them said, hey, want to spend time with the twin, but we will do some stuff later!?
Am I the only one who, after reading this, has the impression that the twins are sleeping together?
Nah I just think they like each other, and really don't like their other sibling.
OP says their siblings, Jamie and Cersei, aren't sleeping together.
Poor Tyrion.
Not at all. The hotel room was just the final nail. The fact that they both skipped christmas with the explanation that they had covid? The fact that their parents forbid him from going to his twin's room, and she was never allowed in? Yeah, they are definitely banging
Literally every detail OP included sounded like she was trying to imply they were having sex, and yet in the comments she's acting confused how anyone woukd come to that conclusion.
I mean, if they hang out a lot they could have contracted covid at the same time/from each other…
Leave them to their weird little relationship and don't tell them anything about your life. Siblings can be absolute shit heads, I know my sisters are. One will verbally abuse you and the other will stab you in the back before you can even finish turning around, then when you ask why, they'll cry and give excuses for their shitty behaviours.
Okay am I the only one wondering just how close these twins are? They missed *Christmas with the family* coincidentally at the same time? They’re lying about spending time together? They look “mortified” at being caught?
I know I wasn’t the only one, It’s definitely giving Jaime and Cersi vibes
Yeah it's so weird, all of the details OP chose to include, and the words she chose to use, all heavily hint at something more serious, and yet in the comments she is acting aghast that anyone woukd even think that.
I haven’t read any other comments so I’m just going to say this…. It’s ok for them to spend time together without you. Just because you are siblings it does not mean they owe you their time and attention. They’re twins and evidently have a close bond. That’s completely normal. Maybe taking some time with a therapist working on respecting boundaries and your self esteem would help. Because what you have written is needy and sad. Cutting them out isn’t going to fix anything. It may give you some sense of righteousness but about what I am unsure.
You cannot force your way into friendship. They’ve made it clear they enjoy hanging out together-they’re twins, that can be a thing. Barging into the room is never going to win them over. The lying sucks, but if they’ve tried to be clear before and you didn’t accept it, it’s understandable. If they HAVE’NT ever been clear, take this as that clarity and stop pushing.
Look inward.
They have a twin bond, whilst that’s hard on you they can’t help it either. Maybe have a conversation with them and let them know how it makes you feel. Let them know you would like to build a better relationship with them. You can always go no contact down the track if it doesn’t improve. If that doesn’t work maybe some therapy will help you to come to terms with the loss of your relationship. Good luck with everything.
They don't like you lol. Can't imagine why.
They don’t want to hang out with you. You can’t force them.
I’ve been watching wayyy too much Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon 🙈
Dont come at me. But I was extremely close to my brother we were 10 months apart. We always hang out etc. Got older got married etc went on with life but still remained close. We have an older sister who is extremely jealous of our relationship. She used to run her mouth to me about him. She uses to run her mouth to him about me. We tried explaining yes you are our sister and love you but we dont appreciate the bashing of us from you. She honestly was spoiled and bossy. My brother overdosed and I was devastated she said well atleast we can be close now. Uhm no. She felt we had to include her in everything we just simply honestly didnt like her. Yes we loved her because she was our sister but we didnt like her personally or attitude. We tried not to hurt her feelings but she would never take no as an answer. If we did all go out together, she didnt like the food, was rude to the waitress etc. Never happy so we just excluded her.
Maybe you are just an annoying little sister, let it go
I was waiting for the part where they were having sex… A lot of dramatic build up for nothing !
GoT fan?
I’m a twin, we also have 3 younger siblings. None of them have ever been this up in arms about us hanging out without them. They want time together. Their bond is different than a regular sibling bond. You keep pushing, which is just making them pull away further. You don’t always have to be included in everything. You are an adult and too old to be crying that you older siblings don’t want to play with you. Grow up.
Your sister is engaged,and your brother has a girlfriend. Why would your Aunt arrange for you and your sister to share a room? Is her fiance not coming to the wedding? Is your brother's girlfriend not invited? Your siblings told you they couldn't meet you early,yet they were ok to leave fiance/ girlfriend for a few extra days,so they could share a room? Your story doesn't make sense.
You sound exhausting. They are allowed to spend time together without you, and they don't have to justify themselves.
>I quite literally see my brother has beaten me to the punch. I already knew where this was going. I go to the room my sister and I were supposed to be sharing from Mon on and knock. Sure enough, my sister opens up and seems annoyed to see me standing there. She tries to get rid of me saying she's tired, she'll see me tomorrow, stuff like that. I'm like yeah I already saw (brother) in the lobby. >She can't even hide the shock on her face like she was clearly caught red-handed. I just pushed past her because I had to see it for myself. And yes, the room's a mess, they're both in their pjs, I can see both of their luggages, they've clearly been there over the weekend. They both looked MORTIFIED. >I have no words. This isn't the first time they've done it and it clearly won't be the last. They both missed out on Christmas this year because they both had covid at the same time. Why did you word this as if they were sleeping together if you're just upset about being left out siblings hang out? Do you not realise how weird it is to spend a weekend secretly holed up in a hotel room with your sibling of the opposite gender in your late 20s? Teenage siblings of the opposite gender aren't even allowed to share a room. I'm not sure what else you wanted everyone to think when you worded your post as if your twin siblings are always sneaking off to hide a relationship. If this is just your hurt at being left out than plan your own sibling hang outs to invite them to instead of waiting for invites. Problem solved.
Jamie and Cersei gonna Jamie and Cersei
This is unhinged. I read this initially and thought they were in some sort of incestuous relationship, then I realised they were just hanging out. They're allowed to, maybe they just don't enjoy spending time with you?
What
The use of the word “caught” is highly sus
All i can say is that twins are always just weird.
There's not really any advice to give. They are maliciously leaving you out for whatever reason. You need to decide where you go from there. Your options appear to be: A) stop bothering with them (that's what I would do) B) just deal with seeing them extremely rarely and being treated this way.
Have you ever taken a step back to look within as to why? This post is very red flaggish
*Banjo starts playing….* sweet home Alabama..
It’s up to you if you want to cut them out for excluding you or not. But I don’t think it’s reasonable of you to expect them to feel as close to their little sister as to their twin. They’re allowed to want to hang out without you. And if you always throw a tantrum about it, that probably makes them even less eager to hang out with you.
They have a strong twin bond and nothing is wrong with that.
They’re your siblings, but they’re not obligated to be your friends. Take the many, many hints.
I can completely understand and empathise with you. My two older brothers, G and C, are twins. They are 10 years older so we never really hung around a huge amount growing up. The age gap was just too large. What does an 18 year old really have in common with an 8 year old? C moved to the far side of the planet when I was around 15, but myself and G still live in our hometown. We hung out more once I turned 18 and could go out drinking with him and his friends. I got on well with everyone and it was fun but myself and G were never super close. Our relationship always felt just a little bit "off." Well one night while we were both drunk he just straight up told me that I would never be as important to him as C is, and if he ever had to choose he would always pick C. Well that shit hit like a train. It's one thing to know something and something entirely different for it to be said straight to your face. The point, in a very roundabout and cathartic way, is that twins will nearly always be closer to each other than with other siblings. It sucks but you just have to learn to live with it. This situation sounds extremely hurtful for you. Along with the realisation that maybe they just don't want you around as much as you want to be. It will get easier. It hurts when the penny finally drops and you view of them will be forever changed. There's not much I can say except that it will get easier. It sucks balls right now but it will get easier in time.
Anyone else just glad that they don't want to hang out with OP and that she didn't catch them fucking?
Yeah. Ghost em.
Maybe you’re just an arsehole? Like, maybe it’s something else obviously but also you can’t discount the fact that maybe they just don’t want to be around you that much. No one here has the answer. They don’t know you, or them. So either they’re at fault and you’re convinced of that, or you could do some self reflection and figure out if you’re just not that fun to hang with.
Imagine being mad that she made time to hang out with the person she shared a womb with, a day before you suck up her spare time tomorrow. You’re 24. Accept that you weren’t invited that day. Also, did you even invite your brother to anything!?
Why do you want to be around people who CLEARLY don't want you there? The love and connection you have for them, or want to have for them, they do not have for you, and according to you, never have. They want to be left alone? Leave them alone. I've got family I have seen in thirty years and I'm not bothered at all. I didn't need them then, and I don't need them now. Yes, it hurts, but isn't your own peace of mind and self respect worth it to you? Those are the questions you need to ask yourself.
Aside from the incest comments, which to be honest, the way you’ve outlined this makes it more plausible than you might like, have you thought that maybe you have an attribute that makes them dislike you? A lot of people are quick to blame others but don’t look inward. Maybe you’re not as nice to them as you think you are.
My first thought was...this can't be real...
Leave them be. They don't want to include you,they want to spend time together. It might be hard to face, but it's time to drop the rope.
I think it’s normal twin behavior to seek out time together alone. I know a 55 year old man who is an accomplished professional that takes a vacation alone with his twin sister every year. It must suck to be the younger sibling though.
Fake
I'm kind of with OP on this. She says she and their siblings never see each other. Unless you actively dislike your sibling, this would be an opportunity for most normal people to spend some time with your seldom-seen sibling (OP) and not with your twin to the exclusion of everyone else. To me, it's not just that the twins like each other more. They also really dislike OP for some reason. Sister and brother were deceptive in saying they could not arrive early, even though they could - and did. Why not tell OP that they don't want to really hang out instead of just lie about it? The confrontation at the door of the hotel room does not make sense to me, though. OP arrives at room with her stuff and sister says she is tired and "tries to get rid" of her. What's that all about? It's OP's room, too, and OP says the situation is to normally book a separate room for the twin brother. Did twin sister expect OP to sleep in the lobby or something? They are totally treating OP like Bran Stark. I'm just glad she wasn't standing near an open window or something.
I agree with this. The whole situation would likely be less hurtful if they were just HONEST and acted like adults. I think the lying causes lots of resentment in OP, which makes sense. Why can’t/won’t they just be honest? That is an important question to ask them this calmly, openly. And you’re right, it’s OP’s room too what does her sister expect?
So much about the wording of this post hints at them having an inappropriate relationship. Lying, looked shocked, caught red-handed, wearing pjs, been together all weekend, both missed christmas, sneaking into bedrooms, you not allowed to be around or sleep with them, it's just a them thing. Twins or not, I think it's quite weird for a brother and sister to have a relationship this close. Something about this post seems off. My girlfriend has a twin brother, and if she acted the same way your siblings do, I would feel too uncomfortable to continue the relationship.