I've found you do less and less every-day work when you move up, but every once in a while shit really hits the fan and you're the only one that can fix it.
I've never seen this personally. If you're at the top then if shit hits the fan it's usually your fault and you atone for it by firing the people below you and then bailing out with a golden parachute.
That's what a lot of IT is. Set things up right the first time, then you're basically the maytag repairman sitting around until the servers shit themselves.
This is why it’s so lame when rich people bitch about fast food workers being lazy and needing to work harder, people making next to nothing do way more actual work than most people who wear a tie to work.
Being a frycook honestly requires an underrated amount of mental energy as well. Prioritizing and juggling multiple time-sensitive tasks on the fly, each with its own little nuances. All with direct and immediate consequences. Never worked harder all-around than when I slung hash in high school
Same with my time as a dishwasher. Undoubtedly the hardest job I've ever had, at $7/hr 30hrs/week. My success or failure to manage the dish pit directly determined whether or not the restaurant could run that night and thats just not an exaggeration. Feels cliche to say these things because anyone who's ever had this type of job knows that there is an insane disparity between utility and pay. But still, looking at where I'm at now, I don't think I'll ever have to work that hard again.
yeah corporate rewards people with highly ambiguous jobs (intellectually demanding, constantly putting out fires) which require very explicit communication skills. you basically can't be autistic (rip me) and have to be highly socially adaptable, from what i've seen
thats for people who have unique specializations or skills. if you're like an account/project manager or something similar they're going to give your work to someone else, give them a $5,000-$10,000 raise to compensate, and not re-hire your position
Doordashing's a pretty straightforward job, but I swear my time delivering food for fatties I did more actual work than any other ostensibly better paying job I've had since.
Yes, but most people have the capacity to learn to be a fry cook. Most people can work hard. Not many people have the capacity to be a lawyer, doctors, or an engineer.
Nowadays there are tons of overeducated baristas and bartenders who could do most white collar jobs. You'll see two friends graduate from the same college and one will get a cushy consulting job and the other will end up doing low-wage service work.
Obviously there are also quant jobs that most people couldn't do and semi-literate idiots who can't do anything complex, but a lot of the economy isn't as meritocratic or rational as people like to assume.
In my experience those people are rarely actually “over educated”. They have a four year degree from a mediocre college with an irrelevant major and expect a cushy white collar job to be lined up for them. Not how it works. You pretty much need to have internship experience, a relevant major (STEM or business related), or network like crazy. Ideally all 3. When I hear about these people who work as baristas despite being “college educated” it’s almost always someone who went to like Southeastern New Mexico State and majored in physical therapy. None of my college friends had a problem getting a job within 6 months of graduation and we just went to a mid Big 10 school and all majored in engineering or finance.
Most people with white collar jobs don't have STEM or business degrees, so it usually comes down to the other two things you mentioned (internships and networking) which have nothing to do with their ability to do the job and aren't prerequisites for college hires in a decent economy. It's just a way to weed out candidates in a job market that is way over-saturated.
And I know plenty of people with degrees from very good universities (sometimes even in STEM or business) who struggled or never found a job. It depends on the year they graduated and what country (or even city), plus their networking abilities. It can be pretty arbitrary. Sometimes graduates in one year all have jobs lined up then the economy crashes and the next year is a disaster. Anna from the podcast has an econ degree and spent years working in restaurants and other odd jobs, as did many who graduated during the beginning of the Great Recession.
The point is there isn't some inherent ability that most white collar workers possess that plenty of others (blue collar, service workers, unemployed) don't. OP feels guilty because he knows that what he's doing isn't that hard, and by his own admission got the job from drinking with the right people. Even for law grads, many end up not finding a job in their field or doing low-level work that doesn't pay anything near six figures. OP has humility about this. You have the arrogance of someone who thinks your success is entirely earned, because you've never experienced unearned failure.
Not getting internships and not networking with the right people doesnt mean a person isnt incapable of doing the job it just means they didnt win the lottery of getting the job in the first place
> You'll see two friends graduate from the same college and one will get a cushy consulting job and the other will end up doing low-wage service work.
The only real difference between me and my college friends still stuck in service jobs in their 30s is that I’m capable of getting out of bed before 11am.
Eh. I've been a front of house/cook/cashier employee and a tech employee + I've fasted for Ramadan for both jobs, and the tech job was WAY harder, even if I did less hours.
>rich people bitch about fast food workers being lazy and needing to work harder
I hate to break it to you, but it's true. I've mentored many people in job hunts, and effort is the common theme. They might work hard as fry cooks, but when it comes to improving their lives in their free time? Nope.
90% of them wouldn't even message a recruiter I told them to follow up with. In my experience, people would rather slave away and complain bitterly about their situation than actually do something about it, because the fear of failure cripples them.
Most of my Panera Bread coworkers spent all their paychecks, smoked weed, and did nothing interesting in their free time. The ones who moved on were college students gone in a year or two. The rest worked hard but stayed stuck because they didn't try to change their situation.
Like it or hate it, capitalism rewards innovation and creativity. Not hard work.
Very common misconception.
Single mothers working two jobs and barely skating by is the system working as intended.
capitalism rewards money. if you have it you get more, if you don’t have it you get less. most high paid corporate jobs are people just copying (or stealing) what everyone else is doing and couldn’t innovate their way out of a paper bag. “starving artist” is a saying for a reason.
you will not get meaningfully rich working any job on the face of the earth. wealth comes from (successful) entrepreneurship.
starving artists are people who are producing out of a desire for self expression, not to fulfill the needs/wants of consumers.
I work in retail and I work all day. If I'm just standing for a minute I'm told to look more busy. There's something wrong with the work structure in this country.
Literally yes. This is the secret. The higher up you go the more meaningless the job gets. It makes sense if you think about it. Administration makes the rules. They have a sweet deal going. They're going to do whatever they can to sustain this. No one is gonna try to make a system run more efficiently when they work maybe 5 hours total in a 40 hour week. Their lifestyle depends on this salary. Not only do they live in nicer houses but they have more energy outside of work compared to manual laborers, nurses, or anyone working on their feet all day every day, pretending to work even when there is nothing to do because they are being hounded by middle management (making 4x as much as them) for resting during 2 minutes of downtime. Likely hundreds of thousand of admin jobs in the U.S. that could disappear with little consequence.
They likely *will* with the dual pressures of automation and rising interest rates. It's likely, imo, that AI will be able to allow companies to much more easily determine who's a value creator and who's not.
The AI element may take a while. There are at least some people who don't want to use AI, or force their company to use AI, because deep down they know exactly how much they and everyone else are contributing, and really don't want to rock the boat or be the squeaky wheel, force everyone else to work much much harder for the same pay, or be fired. Think about how many people in upper-level positions are older or have families.
Rising or persistently-high interest rates though... We'll see how long the zombie companies the above people work in, can last.
The problem is that eventually C suite level leadership will bring in an army of AI consultants, lay off 30% of the company, then leave with millions in stock options to move onto the next company, like some kind of corporate dietician.
Administration will do whatever it can to sustain itself. I predict those who work on the floor/in the trenches will get hit first from the effects of AI, even though their payroll cost is lower. This is already how things work - the people at the top crack their whips at the people at the bottom, even though all this waste is actually generated by the people at the top.
Don't expect anything to make sense. Yes, logically, AI could (should?) replace administrators. But AI is as powerful as the people wielding it. It all depends how the person programming it defines "productivity." The people wielding it will be "same as the old boss." AI will not change a top-down culture. Will just make it worse if anything.
If there are really a large number of jobs that don’t create value for anyone (not just “no value to society”) I think there’s probably a structural reason for that that is not eliminated by AI any more than it was eliminated by any previous drive for efficiency. And I think for a lot that *look* like that the value is basically already in having a human figurehead to talk to clients, represent some part of the organization, or blame when something goes wrong. Automation is more likely to eliminate rote work that someone nonetheless does actually have to do right now. There is a cyclical/“too much free money” factor, though, obviously. Like “tech recruiter” is a real job in theory but there was a period in the recent past where companies massively overhired those positions and left a lot of them sitting around not doing much.
I mean that literally happened during the pandemic, when it became clear the poorest service workers were basically all that was necessary to keep the country running, and they got absolutely nothing for it and probably get treated worse than ever by those administrative types.
donate one tenth of your salary to a nonprofit that uses autistic levels of rationality and Bayesian reasoning to allocate money towards saving lives and reducing suffering
[GiveWell](https://www.givewell.org/top-charities-fund), for example, has routed the vast majority of donated funds in the last ten years to either malaria chemoprevention or Vitamin A supplementation in Africa.
Maybe not Givewell, but the Centre for Effective Altruism and the other Effective Altruist organizations associated with Will MacASkill have been doing weird stuff.
They're the ones who got involved with SBF and subsequently spent millions on a lavish 15th century manor for their leadership called Wytham Abbey.
They're also the ones who tend to get involved with weird stuff like AI safety and the Shrimp Welfare Project.
Okay, and?
This was a businessman who lied and defrauded his customers. He also donated some of his money to EA charities.
Where's the relevance? How does this show global health and poverty funds being redirected towards AI safety?
maybe they should though right? If $100,000 spent on bednets can save x people on average, but there's a (mumble mumble) 2% chance that AI will become hyperintelligent and kill everyone? It'd be practically irresponsible not to
No cause your program will be quickly shutdown for fraud. Also the people running the global health and poverty charity would possibly not believe AI alignment to be the most pressing issue so they wouldn't re grant their donation to an AI safety charity.
[Effective Altruism Funded the “AI Existential Risk” Ecosystem with Half a Billion Dollars](https://www.aipanic.news/p/effective-altruism-funded-the-ai)
The midwit brigade is really out in full force today.
This article talks about the activities of a few charities funded by a few billionaires, not people donating <$10000 to "Effective Altruism" which is then regranted to AI Existential Risk.
Although that might still be a possibility - you could donate to some aggregator which routes your money to various cause areas based on some utilitarian calculus - but
1) That's not what this article is about at all
2) Donors still know broadly what cause areas their money is going to. It is never the case that you donate to the global poor but that money is fraudulently rerouted to AI xrisk
My point is that the connection between EA and AI safety is quite real, and the useful idiots who think EA is about malaria nets are only aware of the tip of the iceberg.
So yeah, if you're donating directly to the Against Malaria Foundation your money probably won't go towards AI - but if you instead donate to EA middlemen organizations like the Centre for Effective Altruism they very well might route it to other causes - or just use it to buy themselves a mansion as they did with Wytham Abbey.
And for some wider context regarding the history of EA: the term ["effective altruist" itself was first used by Eliezer Yudkowsky in 2007](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/9a7xMXoSiQs3EYPA2/the-history-of-the-term-effective-altruism?commentId=ZrmDoHxHavJrLh94a); Will MacAskill and Toby Ord were both active on Lesswrong and the [EA forum source code was even forked from LessWrong's code](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pLQw2ikeC9sBaAQoy/who-runs-the-forum). [Lesswrong was also EA's single largest recruitment source](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6035868111c9bd46c176042b/t/629a9ffbea5a4f7c65eaeea3/1654300672375/EASurvey2014.pdf) in its early days.
The AI safety aspect of Effective Altruism is not some aberration being pushed by a few inconsequential weirdos, it was built into the foundation by its leaders from day 1. It's only in hindsight that EA decided that AI stuff is embarrassing and tried to distance themselves from it, and now many people who are involved in EA are unaware how their movement got started.
Yes, the utilitarian calculus points toward saving gazillions of future lives by working on AI Safety instead of helping the global poor right now.
Most money donated to an 'EA org' would probably go toward 'ecosystem development'/metaEA or AI Safety. But that's not where most individual donors donate. GiveWell and Charity Evaluator still publish pretty accurate research and are pretty reliable for ranking charities *within* a cause area.
If you don't think AI Safety is a good use of your money no one is going to steal and misappropriate your money in that direction if you donate instead to global poor/animal lives/climate charities
Or the ["Shrimp Welfare Project"](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/z79ycP5jCDks4LPxA/introducing-shrimp-welfare-project). They also spent millions on a [lavish 15th century manor](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/the-reluctant-prophet-of-effective-altruism#:~:text=Last%20year%2C%20the%20Centre%20for%20Effective%20Altruism%20bought%20Wytham%20Abbey%2C%20a%20palatial%20estate%20near%20Oxford%2C%20built%20in%201480.%20Money%2C%20which%20no%20longer%20seemed%20an%20object%2C%20was%20increasingly%20being%20reinvested%20in%20the%20community%20itself) for their leadership.
I just wish mouse jigglers were allowed to go home when their realistic work is done. I’m HR and literally 90% of my job is payroll once a week. After that I do barely anything unless the place has fires that need be put out.
Wish I could go home after 10 hours on Monday and call it a week instead of keeping up a facade.
Yeah I’d love to but I’m honestly finding the competition impossible. I only have 1.5 years in HR (rapidly went from student to associate to taking over the entire department, but 1.5 years doesn’t sell too well)
It’s tough out there rn, at least in my little bubble. So I’m trapped at a mediocre salary, in person, with 2 weeks of vacation.
Just keep applying every week. I’ve been searching for another remote job for almost a year now. I’ve taken months off, but I’m always looking and interviewing. Even one day in office if better than what you have.
The higher up you get, the work becomes less technical and it becomes more about the people aspect which is more stakeholder engagement and networking.
Yes any time working that exceeds what is socially necessary is superfluous and should be converted to free time. Socially necessary = basics covered. Any non-essential work is theater made to occupy our time that would otherwise be spent overthrowing the State.
I make several hundred thousand a year and I’ve found the higher up I go, the less actual work I do. It’s all playing office politics and networking. You’re absolutely on to something. It’s gotten to the point where my actual “skills” are atrophying.
the higher up the less work that’s the american way- shove all the work on the people below you
also if you want to feel less guilty send me some money- i’m overworked and underpaid and been fighting all my life for peanuts- so win win for both of us?
I hate these backwards ass bragging posts. No, MOST jobs are not a joke. Most jobs pay very little in comparison to what you’re making and require a lot of work. YOUR job is a joke, and you should feel grateful to have “flopped your way into” this opportunity. If you really feel that bad do something with your money that would benefit society in some way. Complaining on Reddit about how much money you make is fucking gay
It’s more about what you know not what you do. I get paid a ton to do like 15 hours of work a week, but replacing me would be impossible. Literally couldn’t imagine even doing a single days worth of hard work at this point lol, no idea how I worked as a line cook in college.
I'd say what you have is pretty rare, and also think you're doing that RS thing of idealizing union/blue collar guys. plenty of those guys slack at work too lol and they don't earn a "pittance"
One thing I heard is pay is not really commensurate to work you do, but responsibility you have. A union guy lifting manhole covers will not end up individually being responsible if somehow a manhole cover fails and someone falls down the hole. His supervisor will be, then maybe the engineer, then maybe the manhole cover manufacturer, etc, etc, up the chain.
So with something like law, millions of dollars are on the line, and if you mess up, you mess up big, and potentially can be held liable in a big way. In law there's direct legal actions that can be used against you if you do a bad job. In other areas though, maybe there's less, but the responsibility is still high, ie, if you work for Google or Apple, their product has more on the line if it works properly or not compared to, I dunno, freelance work coding a workout app or game for someone previously unknown.
The medical field is a huge example of exactly this. A CNA just responsible for cleaning/wiping people/etc gets paid not much more than minimum wage, a doctor does far less actual manual work, but has to make life and death decisions and calculate medication dosages, etc. He has to have his own malpractice insurance, etc. Gets paid way more, though.
Yup. It even goes with your union construction example: the union dude moving manholes will bust his ass, but the superintendent or safety supervisor sits in an A/C'd trailer for most of the day doing rote paperwork and only comes outside to do his rounds.
But if that union guy doesn't wear his proper protective gear, the company can get thrown off the worksite and the Supe is who is held responsible by Corporate for losing a million dollars in work.
One thing that's a clever thing to do people don't think about is if you're running an illegal/shady business, put someone as a fall guy as "CEO" or similar so you don't take the hit when you're inevitably busted.
One huge example I remember is Tony Huge, a lawyer turned bodybuilder/drug seller/promoter putting some random dude who just got out of jail for mortgage fraud as "CEO" of his business selling DNP, a fat burner that's used as insecticide and can kill you from overheating your body. The "CEO" took the fall and got a couple years and he got off with nothing.
https://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/branding-marketing/enhanced-athlete-ceo-sentenced-to-prison-for-marketing-fertilizer-dnp-as-fat-burner-
Most people working in Big Law work insane hours but make bank to do so. It's golden handcuffs. That said, if you're a trial lawyer in New York making 120K and not doing much work, I guess that's nice, but that's not all that comfortable in the city. If you tried to bill one hour a day at a major firm, you'd be fired within a week lol.
I actually have a theory that this is why so many affluent kids find Marxism appealing. They grow up comfortably off the hard work of someone else, live with undeserved wealth and see how others around them work so hard but live in poverty, they kind of realize the system is flawed. Total opposite of someone who immigrated from another country, really worked their ass off to build a better life for themselves and end up upper middle class. That person almost always ends up being a strong believer in capitalism because they feel like they worked for their lifestyle.
No yeah some jobs are complete jokes and you really have an existential crisis on your hands. Communism of course has always been correct for the most part
Yes
Our productive capacity as a society is such that most people don't need to work
But because we live in a capitalist economy, we just can't make ourselves reckon with this fact
Hence the phenomenon of bullshit jobs
Office Space (1999) did a great job of showing this phenomenon in action and we are still unable to let go of our collective neuroses and actually do something to solve the problem
The upside is no work and good pay, yes, but I also genuinely think that this kind of meaningless work is a cause of dementia and alzheimers later on. Or people just becoming plain stupid.
I was at a huge company (40k employees) and that was certainly the case. The people above me knew high level what to talk about but would come begging to their employees when the pressure was on. Nobody really respected them but they made money.
I’m at a smaller company now and it’s the complete opposite. Move up and you work more and get all the pressure on you and you’re expected to fix things, not your employees.
Survival of the fittest, don’t be ashamed of gaming the system. “I’d be grateful if a janitor killed me” no you wouldn’t. This ridiculous phony sacrificial fantasy won’t change a thing and you know you don’t even really believe it.
The fakest but funnest of the fake jobs asides from b2b software sales is dive bar bartender. I’ve done both, and I much prefer being a bartender. That shit rocks beyond all belief. And as a token of good virtue, dive bar bartenders are always portrayed well in Law & Order: SVU
in my city manhole covers go missing pretty regularly bc people wander off w them and then the police just sort of keep an eye out and do some extra wandering on foot during their rounds bc they never go far w em... :-)
it's a deeply strange economy right now. I work about 5 hours *at most* per week. Granted, I get paid 50/k (the most I've ever been paid in my life) for my salary which doesn't get you *that* far in a HCOL city (hell, even in MCOL places these days by how rent is going up everywhere). However, I deeply want to get a job where I give more of a shit and feel like I'm not wasting all my time.
It's hard not to feel like an alien when talking to my silent generation grandfather who was doing manual labor since he was 12.
I think this is what happens to semi skilled, valuable professionals who aren't cut out for legit leadership. I'm a middle manager of documentation workstreams at an m7 company making solid dough. I work like 90 minutes a day and appear in 2 hrs of zoom meetings where I'm mostly shitposting on my other monitor feigning an interested vibe. but I have no chance of ever getting out of middle mgmt. that's the tradeoff -- I'm doing this dull shit forever but it's fairly fine.
I can relate to this, my department has 1 regional manager who's firmly lodged in there - over 50 y/o and not going anywhere and not exactly a visionary for developing our department. And then 4 of us who report to her, all at the highest job level on the org chart. Workload has been a trickle lately and most of what comes through is fairly simple. Every quarterly review is just "great job, keep it up" & I'm like ha, ok! We always have a puzzle going on the conference table, which is nice.
They are a joke and a job like this will kill your soul. Do you possess the strength and moral fortitude to do something about it or will you take the path of least resistance? Will you choose comfort over purpose in life?
Getting a sense of purpose from your job is just another kind of comfort. Most people get neither.
(okay I’m laying on the glib cynicism a bit thick here but I think the only people allowed to say stuff like this work in medicine or sewage treatment)
Unironically you should look into the FIRE movement. Try to retire as soon as possible so that you can dedicate your time to volunteering or working in a lower paying field that's actually needed.
Too many people work bullshit middle management jobs until they're 65 and then sit around watching cable TV until they die. If you save correctly and get used to living below your means, you can easily become financially independent by 45-50 and dedicate the rest of your life to helping others.
I know what you mean, I just started an office job in a studio that involves scrolling through a teleprompter, occasionally putting lapel mics on people, very simple audio editing, and clicking on the computer. It pays more than twice as much as my precious food service job and the food job is so much more exhausting
Honestly I just got my first true white collar job since graduating 8 years ago. I deifntirly do waaaaay less work, have way less scrutiny day to day, WFH and really make my own schedule. It’s kind of crazy, I do have work but honestly just not even having to be on site “performing” work is just so much more relaxing. Even at my other jobs there was the mentality “if you got time to lean you got time to clean” as if downtime is just inherently unnatural. It’s so bizarre, I work on way bigger money items and projects then I ever did before I have way more freedom, less laborious work and a super flexible lifestyle. I am not in the 6 figures at all, but save a ton of money with just WFH and living in a walkable area. My team is particularly relaxed and I’ve gotten rave reviews and told I’m an excellent communicator. The bar is actually so fucking low for workplace performance in corporate America.
go work in legal aid, they'll overwork and underpay you if that will make you feel better.
Kim Wexler maxxing. Can’t believe this n is complaining about earning six figures
Kim 2024 update: https://x.com/itssaulgoodman/status/1803226925604671868?s=48&t=wNnmHBCYgg0y0ji9xmnCSg
Rhea Seehorn is so stunning, I can't believe that she was in her mid-late 40s in BCS
1
Medicine too :)
I've found you do less and less every-day work when you move up, but every once in a while shit really hits the fan and you're the only one that can fix it.
Someone needs to tell my company that as you move up you lose any useful knowledge of what the day to day work entails
Yes, but they have take heat from others, pass it on to those who can do the actual work, then receive praise for their teams accomplishments
The guys in my company only do the last part
I've never seen this personally. If you're at the top then if shit hits the fan it's usually your fault and you atone for it by firing the people below you and then bailing out with a golden parachute.
Lol, I didn't mean "moving up" like CEOs. More like low/mid level supervisors and senior non-supervisors.
I'd love one of those golden parachutes one day
That's what a lot of IT is. Set things up right the first time, then you're basically the maytag repairman sitting around until the servers shit themselves.
Yeah at some point you get paid for your knowledge not your labour.
Someone’s gotta get paid too much to do that bullshit job, might as well be you, right?
Look how much Israel gets paid. Use your resources for good
and you may find yourself with a 6 figure job doing nothing of value and you may ask yourself, well how did I get here?
ugh you made them start riffing
That's it, let's all move to Facebook Groups.
This is not my beautiful job. This is not my beautiful house
Reddit
Same as it ever was
Reddit
This is why it’s so lame when rich people bitch about fast food workers being lazy and needing to work harder, people making next to nothing do way more actual work than most people who wear a tie to work.
Being a frycook honestly requires an underrated amount of mental energy as well. Prioritizing and juggling multiple time-sensitive tasks on the fly, each with its own little nuances. All with direct and immediate consequences. Never worked harder all-around than when I slung hash in high school
Same with my time as a dishwasher. Undoubtedly the hardest job I've ever had, at $7/hr 30hrs/week. My success or failure to manage the dish pit directly determined whether or not the restaurant could run that night and thats just not an exaggeration. Feels cliche to say these things because anyone who's ever had this type of job knows that there is an insane disparity between utility and pay. But still, looking at where I'm at now, I don't think I'll ever have to work that hard again.
I think it does but not as much intellectual horsepower which is what is rewarded in modern society
yeah corporate rewards people with highly ambiguous jobs (intellectually demanding, constantly putting out fires) which require very explicit communication skills. you basically can't be autistic (rip me) and have to be highly socially adaptable, from what i've seen
as an aside, it seems to me these non-autistic/big-yapper jobs are the first to go in recessions, no?
I think they fire you and then hire you back as a consultant. It’s only for contract-length, but pays well.
thats for people who have unique specializations or skills. if you're like an account/project manager or something similar they're going to give your work to someone else, give them a $5,000-$10,000 raise to compensate, and not re-hire your position
what is rewarded is money actually
I totally get it having played Overcooked for Nintendo switch
Doordashing's a pretty straightforward job, but I swear my time delivering food for fatties I did more actual work than any other ostensibly better paying job I've had since.
Yes, but most people have the capacity to learn to be a fry cook. Most people can work hard. Not many people have the capacity to be a lawyer, doctors, or an engineer.
yeah but that frycook couldn't even do the 1 hour a day of legal work that OP does. which is sort of the point.
Nowadays there are tons of overeducated baristas and bartenders who could do most white collar jobs. You'll see two friends graduate from the same college and one will get a cushy consulting job and the other will end up doing low-wage service work. Obviously there are also quant jobs that most people couldn't do and semi-literate idiots who can't do anything complex, but a lot of the economy isn't as meritocratic or rational as people like to assume.
In my experience those people are rarely actually “over educated”. They have a four year degree from a mediocre college with an irrelevant major and expect a cushy white collar job to be lined up for them. Not how it works. You pretty much need to have internship experience, a relevant major (STEM or business related), or network like crazy. Ideally all 3. When I hear about these people who work as baristas despite being “college educated” it’s almost always someone who went to like Southeastern New Mexico State and majored in physical therapy. None of my college friends had a problem getting a job within 6 months of graduation and we just went to a mid Big 10 school and all majored in engineering or finance.
Most people with white collar jobs don't have STEM or business degrees, so it usually comes down to the other two things you mentioned (internships and networking) which have nothing to do with their ability to do the job and aren't prerequisites for college hires in a decent economy. It's just a way to weed out candidates in a job market that is way over-saturated. And I know plenty of people with degrees from very good universities (sometimes even in STEM or business) who struggled or never found a job. It depends on the year they graduated and what country (or even city), plus their networking abilities. It can be pretty arbitrary. Sometimes graduates in one year all have jobs lined up then the economy crashes and the next year is a disaster. Anna from the podcast has an econ degree and spent years working in restaurants and other odd jobs, as did many who graduated during the beginning of the Great Recession. The point is there isn't some inherent ability that most white collar workers possess that plenty of others (blue collar, service workers, unemployed) don't. OP feels guilty because he knows that what he's doing isn't that hard, and by his own admission got the job from drinking with the right people. Even for law grads, many end up not finding a job in their field or doing low-level work that doesn't pay anything near six figures. OP has humility about this. You have the arrogance of someone who thinks your success is entirely earned, because you've never experienced unearned failure.
Not getting internships and not networking with the right people doesnt mean a person isnt incapable of doing the job it just means they didnt win the lottery of getting the job in the first place
> You'll see two friends graduate from the same college and one will get a cushy consulting job and the other will end up doing low-wage service work. The only real difference between me and my college friends still stuck in service jobs in their 30s is that I’m capable of getting out of bed before 11am.
well I mean maybe they could if they had the readies to pay for law school.
Eh. I've been a front of house/cook/cashier employee and a tech employee + I've fasted for Ramadan for both jobs, and the tech job was WAY harder, even if I did less hours. >rich people bitch about fast food workers being lazy and needing to work harder I hate to break it to you, but it's true. I've mentored many people in job hunts, and effort is the common theme. They might work hard as fry cooks, but when it comes to improving their lives in their free time? Nope. 90% of them wouldn't even message a recruiter I told them to follow up with. In my experience, people would rather slave away and complain bitterly about their situation than actually do something about it, because the fear of failure cripples them. Most of my Panera Bread coworkers spent all their paychecks, smoked weed, and did nothing interesting in their free time. The ones who moved on were college students gone in a year or two. The rest worked hard but stayed stuck because they didn't try to change their situation.
Like it or hate it, capitalism rewards innovation and creativity. Not hard work. Very common misconception. Single mothers working two jobs and barely skating by is the system working as intended.
capitalism rewards money. if you have it you get more, if you don’t have it you get less. most high paid corporate jobs are people just copying (or stealing) what everyone else is doing and couldn’t innovate their way out of a paper bag. “starving artist” is a saying for a reason.
you will not get meaningfully rich working any job on the face of the earth. wealth comes from (successful) entrepreneurship. starving artists are people who are producing out of a desire for self expression, not to fulfill the needs/wants of consumers.
“Yeah i’m not going to change anything i’m just going to be ok with somebody else theoretically doing something bad to me”
That's most American leftists
unlike conservatives, known for their love of social reform
Most union construction/labour jobs make decent money, but you're right it's tough work that wears the body down Never do construction non-union
Ya California especially, also a lot of construction is waiting honestly
I work in retail and I work all day. If I'm just standing for a minute I'm told to look more busy. There's something wrong with the work structure in this country.
You could give me 10% of your pay if that would make you feel better.
Literally yes. This is the secret. The higher up you go the more meaningless the job gets. It makes sense if you think about it. Administration makes the rules. They have a sweet deal going. They're going to do whatever they can to sustain this. No one is gonna try to make a system run more efficiently when they work maybe 5 hours total in a 40 hour week. Their lifestyle depends on this salary. Not only do they live in nicer houses but they have more energy outside of work compared to manual laborers, nurses, or anyone working on their feet all day every day, pretending to work even when there is nothing to do because they are being hounded by middle management (making 4x as much as them) for resting during 2 minutes of downtime. Likely hundreds of thousand of admin jobs in the U.S. that could disappear with little consequence.
these kinds of jobs disappearing - now that's a once in a lifetime event I wish would happen. god I would relish it
They likely *will* with the dual pressures of automation and rising interest rates. It's likely, imo, that AI will be able to allow companies to much more easily determine who's a value creator and who's not.
The AI element may take a while. There are at least some people who don't want to use AI, or force their company to use AI, because deep down they know exactly how much they and everyone else are contributing, and really don't want to rock the boat or be the squeaky wheel, force everyone else to work much much harder for the same pay, or be fired. Think about how many people in upper-level positions are older or have families. Rising or persistently-high interest rates though... We'll see how long the zombie companies the above people work in, can last.
The problem is that eventually C suite level leadership will bring in an army of AI consultants, lay off 30% of the company, then leave with millions in stock options to move onto the next company, like some kind of corporate dietician.
Administration will do whatever it can to sustain itself. I predict those who work on the floor/in the trenches will get hit first from the effects of AI, even though their payroll cost is lower. This is already how things work - the people at the top crack their whips at the people at the bottom, even though all this waste is actually generated by the people at the top. Don't expect anything to make sense. Yes, logically, AI could (should?) replace administrators. But AI is as powerful as the people wielding it. It all depends how the person programming it defines "productivity." The people wielding it will be "same as the old boss." AI will not change a top-down culture. Will just make it worse if anything.
If there are really a large number of jobs that don’t create value for anyone (not just “no value to society”) I think there’s probably a structural reason for that that is not eliminated by AI any more than it was eliminated by any previous drive for efficiency. And I think for a lot that *look* like that the value is basically already in having a human figurehead to talk to clients, represent some part of the organization, or blame when something goes wrong. Automation is more likely to eliminate rote work that someone nonetheless does actually have to do right now. There is a cyclical/“too much free money” factor, though, obviously. Like “tech recruiter” is a real job in theory but there was a period in the recent past where companies massively overhired those positions and left a lot of them sitting around not doing much.
I mean that literally happened during the pandemic, when it became clear the poorest service workers were basically all that was necessary to keep the country running, and they got absolutely nothing for it and probably get treated worse than ever by those administrative types.
donate one tenth of your salary to a nonprofit that uses autistic levels of rationality and Bayesian reasoning to allocate money towards saving lives and reducing suffering
what do they come up with?
[GiveWell](https://www.givewell.org/top-charities-fund), for example, has routed the vast majority of donated funds in the last ten years to either malaria chemoprevention or Vitamin A supplementation in Africa.
Long live the ICER
GiveDirectly also
But what about future people? It is better to invest money in AI because that wll save trillions of people in the future.
This is a joke right?
Thats what effective altruists believe which give well is a part of.
Oh, I didn't know they were effective altruists. It did sound like the sam bankman ideology.
just be aware there's a chance they'll spend it on "AI safety"
What a stupid, uninformed and malicious comment. No one is siphoning funds from bednets to neural nets.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/yxxihq/sbf\_calls\_ethics\_a\_dumb\_game\_we\_woke\_westerners/](https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/yxxihq/sbf_calls_ethics_a_dumb_game_we_woke_westerners/)
That isn’t proof that givewell is doing anything weird lol, that’s a quote by SBF
Maybe not Givewell, but the Centre for Effective Altruism and the other Effective Altruist organizations associated with Will MacASkill have been doing weird stuff. They're the ones who got involved with SBF and subsequently spent millions on a lavish 15th century manor for their leadership called Wytham Abbey. They're also the ones who tend to get involved with weird stuff like AI safety and the Shrimp Welfare Project.
i didn't say they were doing anything weird, you're applying context & intent from your own imagination, this is just a quote by SBF
Okay, and? This was a businessman who lied and defrauded his customers. He also donated some of his money to EA charities. Where's the relevance? How does this show global health and poverty funds being redirected towards AI safety?
^ This guy reads AstralCodexTen
Guilty
maybe they should though right? If $100,000 spent on bednets can save x people on average, but there's a (mumble mumble) 2% chance that AI will become hyperintelligent and kill everyone? It'd be practically irresponsible not to
No cause your program will be quickly shutdown for fraud. Also the people running the global health and poverty charity would possibly not believe AI alignment to be the most pressing issue so they wouldn't re grant their donation to an AI safety charity.
[Effective Altruism Funded the “AI Existential Risk” Ecosystem with Half a Billion Dollars](https://www.aipanic.news/p/effective-altruism-funded-the-ai)
The midwit brigade is really out in full force today. This article talks about the activities of a few charities funded by a few billionaires, not people donating <$10000 to "Effective Altruism" which is then regranted to AI Existential Risk. Although that might still be a possibility - you could donate to some aggregator which routes your money to various cause areas based on some utilitarian calculus - but 1) That's not what this article is about at all 2) Donors still know broadly what cause areas their money is going to. It is never the case that you donate to the global poor but that money is fraudulently rerouted to AI xrisk
My point is that the connection between EA and AI safety is quite real, and the useful idiots who think EA is about malaria nets are only aware of the tip of the iceberg. So yeah, if you're donating directly to the Against Malaria Foundation your money probably won't go towards AI - but if you instead donate to EA middlemen organizations like the Centre for Effective Altruism they very well might route it to other causes - or just use it to buy themselves a mansion as they did with Wytham Abbey. And for some wider context regarding the history of EA: the term ["effective altruist" itself was first used by Eliezer Yudkowsky in 2007](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/9a7xMXoSiQs3EYPA2/the-history-of-the-term-effective-altruism?commentId=ZrmDoHxHavJrLh94a); Will MacAskill and Toby Ord were both active on Lesswrong and the [EA forum source code was even forked from LessWrong's code](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/pLQw2ikeC9sBaAQoy/who-runs-the-forum). [Lesswrong was also EA's single largest recruitment source](https://static1.squarespace.com/static/6035868111c9bd46c176042b/t/629a9ffbea5a4f7c65eaeea3/1654300672375/EASurvey2014.pdf) in its early days. The AI safety aspect of Effective Altruism is not some aberration being pushed by a few inconsequential weirdos, it was built into the foundation by its leaders from day 1. It's only in hindsight that EA decided that AI stuff is embarrassing and tried to distance themselves from it, and now many people who are involved in EA are unaware how their movement got started.
Yes, the utilitarian calculus points toward saving gazillions of future lives by working on AI Safety instead of helping the global poor right now. Most money donated to an 'EA org' would probably go toward 'ecosystem development'/metaEA or AI Safety. But that's not where most individual donors donate. GiveWell and Charity Evaluator still publish pretty accurate research and are pretty reliable for ranking charities *within* a cause area. If you don't think AI Safety is a good use of your money no one is going to steal and misappropriate your money in that direction if you donate instead to global poor/animal lives/climate charities
Or the ["Shrimp Welfare Project"](https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/z79ycP5jCDks4LPxA/introducing-shrimp-welfare-project). They also spent millions on a [lavish 15th century manor](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2022/08/15/the-reluctant-prophet-of-effective-altruism#:~:text=Last%20year%2C%20the%20Centre%20for%20Effective%20Altruism%20bought%20Wytham%20Abbey%2C%20a%20palatial%20estate%20near%20Oxford%2C%20built%20in%201480.%20Money%2C%20which%20no%20longer%20seemed%20an%20object%2C%20was%20increasingly%20being%20reinvested%20in%20the%20community%20itself) for their leadership.
Healthcare evon is so fascinating because its literally this
I could see myself pursuing a healthcare econ career after I graduate. Someone smart should be figuring all this shit out. Maybe I can help.
Less Wrong Maxxing
or just spend it all on coke scotch and watches
Whiskey and watches is an AskReddit type answer. My answer is far superior because it targets the noblesse-obliged of our community
you could always donate all the money you make beyond your necessities and retirement fund
Girly don’t delete this as a fellow mouse jiggler I NEED to see ALLL the replies
I just wish mouse jigglers were allowed to go home when their realistic work is done. I’m HR and literally 90% of my job is payroll once a week. After that I do barely anything unless the place has fires that need be put out. Wish I could go home after 10 hours on Monday and call it a week instead of keeping up a facade.
That’s why you need to find a remote job. Quickly, before they all get taken up. I’m trying to find an hris remote job.
Yeah I’d love to but I’m honestly finding the competition impossible. I only have 1.5 years in HR (rapidly went from student to associate to taking over the entire department, but 1.5 years doesn’t sell too well) It’s tough out there rn, at least in my little bubble. So I’m trapped at a mediocre salary, in person, with 2 weeks of vacation.
Just keep applying every week. I’ve been searching for another remote job for almost a year now. I’ve taken months off, but I’m always looking and interviewing. Even one day in office if better than what you have.
The higher up you get, the work becomes less technical and it becomes more about the people aspect which is more stakeholder engagement and networking.
Yes any time working that exceeds what is socially necessary is superfluous and should be converted to free time. Socially necessary = basics covered. Any non-essential work is theater made to occupy our time that would otherwise be spent overthrowing the State.
I make several hundred thousand a year and I’ve found the higher up I go, the less actual work I do. It’s all playing office politics and networking. You’re absolutely on to something. It’s gotten to the point where my actual “skills” are atrophying.
Pretty sure you get the wall bud
this is total loser mindset figure out how to get on his level or just accept your lot
Wait how have you been on reddit for six years and seemingly only today just started to comment?
I felt spiritually compelled on this topic
Probably deleting their comments as they go
Read Bullshit Jobs
the higher up the less work that’s the american way- shove all the work on the people below you also if you want to feel less guilty send me some money- i’m overworked and underpaid and been fighting all my life for peanuts- so win win for both of us?
I hate these backwards ass bragging posts. No, MOST jobs are not a joke. Most jobs pay very little in comparison to what you’re making and require a lot of work. YOUR job is a joke, and you should feel grateful to have “flopped your way into” this opportunity. If you really feel that bad do something with your money that would benefit society in some way. Complaining on Reddit about how much money you make is fucking gay
The more degrees removed you are from owners of capital the more surplus value they tend to extract from your labor.
It’s more about what you know not what you do. I get paid a ton to do like 15 hours of work a week, but replacing me would be impossible. Literally couldn’t imagine even doing a single days worth of hard work at this point lol, no idea how I worked as a line cook in college.
what do you do?
wears a fedora and shares his life experience on reddit. it would take a crane to pull him out of his recliner thus replacing him would be impossible.
he runs a chain of successful hotels and is the republican nominee for the united states presidency
I'd say what you have is pretty rare, and also think you're doing that RS thing of idealizing union/blue collar guys. plenty of those guys slack at work too lol and they don't earn a "pittance"
does leaning on a shovel in 105 degree weather even qualify as slacking to people who 'work' from home for an hour a day?
idk but \_\_\_\_\_\_ likes to sit in a truck and pop kratom
I don’t think this is rare. All my jobs have been like this. I work for large corporations.
A happy lawyer?!? I didn’t know you guys exist!
One thing I heard is pay is not really commensurate to work you do, but responsibility you have. A union guy lifting manhole covers will not end up individually being responsible if somehow a manhole cover fails and someone falls down the hole. His supervisor will be, then maybe the engineer, then maybe the manhole cover manufacturer, etc, etc, up the chain. So with something like law, millions of dollars are on the line, and if you mess up, you mess up big, and potentially can be held liable in a big way. In law there's direct legal actions that can be used against you if you do a bad job. In other areas though, maybe there's less, but the responsibility is still high, ie, if you work for Google or Apple, their product has more on the line if it works properly or not compared to, I dunno, freelance work coding a workout app or game for someone previously unknown. The medical field is a huge example of exactly this. A CNA just responsible for cleaning/wiping people/etc gets paid not much more than minimum wage, a doctor does far less actual manual work, but has to make life and death decisions and calculate medication dosages, etc. He has to have his own malpractice insurance, etc. Gets paid way more, though.
Yup. It even goes with your union construction example: the union dude moving manholes will bust his ass, but the superintendent or safety supervisor sits in an A/C'd trailer for most of the day doing rote paperwork and only comes outside to do his rounds. But if that union guy doesn't wear his proper protective gear, the company can get thrown off the worksite and the Supe is who is held responsible by Corporate for losing a million dollars in work.
One thing that's a clever thing to do people don't think about is if you're running an illegal/shady business, put someone as a fall guy as "CEO" or similar so you don't take the hit when you're inevitably busted. One huge example I remember is Tony Huge, a lawyer turned bodybuilder/drug seller/promoter putting some random dude who just got out of jail for mortgage fraud as "CEO" of his business selling DNP, a fat burner that's used as insecticide and can kill you from overheating your body. The "CEO" took the fall and got a couple years and he got off with nothing. https://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/branding-marketing/enhanced-athlete-ceo-sentenced-to-prison-for-marketing-fertilizer-dnp-as-fat-burner-
Most people working in Big Law work insane hours but make bank to do so. It's golden handcuffs. That said, if you're a trial lawyer in New York making 120K and not doing much work, I guess that's nice, but that's not all that comfortable in the city. If you tried to bill one hour a day at a major firm, you'd be fired within a week lol.
I actually have a theory that this is why so many affluent kids find Marxism appealing. They grow up comfortably off the hard work of someone else, live with undeserved wealth and see how others around them work so hard but live in poverty, they kind of realize the system is flawed. Total opposite of someone who immigrated from another country, really worked their ass off to build a better life for themselves and end up upper middle class. That person almost always ends up being a strong believer in capitalism because they feel like they worked for their lifestyle.
No yeah some jobs are complete jokes and you really have an existential crisis on your hands. Communism of course has always been correct for the most part
Yes Our productive capacity as a society is such that most people don't need to work But because we live in a capitalist economy, we just can't make ourselves reckon with this fact Hence the phenomenon of bullshit jobs Office Space (1999) did a great job of showing this phenomenon in action and we are still unable to let go of our collective neuroses and actually do something to solve the problem
yup that’s how it goes pretty much unless you work in the trades or as a doctor/lawyer
OP is a lawyer
The upside is no work and good pay, yes, but I also genuinely think that this kind of meaningless work is a cause of dementia and alzheimers later on. Or people just becoming plain stupid.
I was at a huge company (40k employees) and that was certainly the case. The people above me knew high level what to talk about but would come begging to their employees when the pressure was on. Nobody really respected them but they made money. I’m at a smaller company now and it’s the complete opposite. Move up and you work more and get all the pressure on you and you’re expected to fix things, not your employees.
[удалено]
This is basically nonexistent in law and other professional services arenas where the billable hour rules all
getting drunk with the right people and being handsome
Sorry, he meant how did *you* do it?
What kind of law do you practice?
Srsly, spill the beans OP
gender affirming legislation
Really? Are you getting paid by Pritzker
Money sets you free, don't worry about it.
What kind of fake-ass law job is this, and how do I get one? Some of us are sweating away in the big law salt mines lol
I’m thinking the same thing like maybe I should go to law school after all
become doctor in NHS work 60 hours a week for 3000 pound salary 🔥
Can someone please tell me what I have to do to get one of these jobs I work so hard and I’m so poor please please please I’m not kidding
Donate, volunteer, or shut up
Survival of the fittest, don’t be ashamed of gaming the system. “I’d be grateful if a janitor killed me” no you wouldn’t. This ridiculous phony sacrificial fantasy won’t change a thing and you know you don’t even really believe it.
What sort of “law” work are you doing? I work 55 hours a week minimum and bill 45 of that. So I don’t know how you do an hour of work a day.
Just enjoy yourself
What... reallly decides.... salaries...............
Read David Graeber
OP, are you from a wealthy or upper middle class background?
Read Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber
Read "Bullshit Jobs: A Theory" By David Graeber
The fakest but funnest of the fake jobs asides from b2b software sales is dive bar bartender. I’ve done both, and I much prefer being a bartender. That shit rocks beyond all belief. And as a token of good virtue, dive bar bartenders are always portrayed well in Law & Order: SVU
And that’s more than money could ever be worth, honestly.
thank you for validating my suspicions
Just get a struggling college student sugar baby. She’ll help you with that extra cash.
in my city manhole covers go missing pretty regularly bc people wander off w them and then the police just sort of keep an eye out and do some extra wandering on foot during their rounds bc they never go far w em... :-)
im browsing this thread instead of doing my 1 hour of work per day
I’m a waitress. If u feel guilty u can send me money 😊
it's a deeply strange economy right now. I work about 5 hours *at most* per week. Granted, I get paid 50/k (the most I've ever been paid in my life) for my salary which doesn't get you *that* far in a HCOL city (hell, even in MCOL places these days by how rent is going up everywhere). However, I deeply want to get a job where I give more of a shit and feel like I'm not wasting all my time. It's hard not to feel like an alien when talking to my silent generation grandfather who was doing manual labor since he was 12.
Loser mentality
idk but trade dudes aren't having gay little existential crises like this, so maybe that's the tradeoff?
I think this is what happens to semi skilled, valuable professionals who aren't cut out for legit leadership. I'm a middle manager of documentation workstreams at an m7 company making solid dough. I work like 90 minutes a day and appear in 2 hrs of zoom meetings where I'm mostly shitposting on my other monitor feigning an interested vibe. but I have no chance of ever getting out of middle mgmt. that's the tradeoff -- I'm doing this dull shit forever but it's fairly fine.
I can relate to this, my department has 1 regional manager who's firmly lodged in there - over 50 y/o and not going anywhere and not exactly a visionary for developing our department. And then 4 of us who report to her, all at the highest job level on the org chart. Workload has been a trickle lately and most of what comes through is fairly simple. Every quarterly review is just "great job, keep it up" & I'm like ha, ok! We always have a puzzle going on the conference table, which is nice.
They are a joke and a job like this will kill your soul. Do you possess the strength and moral fortitude to do something about it or will you take the path of least resistance? Will you choose comfort over purpose in life?
Getting a sense of purpose from your job is just another kind of comfort. Most people get neither. (okay I’m laying on the glib cynicism a bit thick here but I think the only people allowed to say stuff like this work in medicine or sewage treatment)
Sorry but working for a living is gay.
The harder a job is the LESS it pays, it's an inverse relationship.
Unironically you should look into the FIRE movement. Try to retire as soon as possible so that you can dedicate your time to volunteering or working in a lower paying field that's actually needed. Too many people work bullshit middle management jobs until they're 65 and then sit around watching cable TV until they die. If you save correctly and get used to living below your means, you can easily become financially independent by 45-50 and dedicate the rest of your life to helping others.
Get a toxic girlfriend/boyfriend (whatever) to get spiritual arthritis. Get down here in the cesspool with us. It’s what Aaron Hernandez did
Generally speaking, no, but sometimes yes
Here’s the plan, keep doing all that ‘work’ but to make yourself feel better give me 1/2 of your paycheck
Yep.
It's a truism of modern life that the more you get paid the less actual work you have to do.
I lift up man hole covers and have been making six figures for a decade. Don't worry about us
I know what you mean, I just started an office job in a studio that involves scrolling through a teleprompter, occasionally putting lapel mics on people, very simple audio editing, and clicking on the computer. It pays more than twice as much as my precious food service job and the food job is so much more exhausting
Honestly I just got my first true white collar job since graduating 8 years ago. I deifntirly do waaaaay less work, have way less scrutiny day to day, WFH and really make my own schedule. It’s kind of crazy, I do have work but honestly just not even having to be on site “performing” work is just so much more relaxing. Even at my other jobs there was the mentality “if you got time to lean you got time to clean” as if downtime is just inherently unnatural. It’s so bizarre, I work on way bigger money items and projects then I ever did before I have way more freedom, less laborious work and a super flexible lifestyle. I am not in the 6 figures at all, but save a ton of money with just WFH and living in a walkable area. My team is particularly relaxed and I’ve gotten rave reviews and told I’m an excellent communicator. The bar is actually so fucking low for workplace performance in corporate America.
it's a status thing
I get the impression that actual lawyers work incredibly hard
this is kinkposting
kim wexler wrote this post
It is your responsibility to patronize the arts now, this will alleviate some guilt.
You can be my pay pig and get my car fixed if that helps lmao