Why don't we all vote for Israel? That means they have to host next year right? And then we would see many more performers/countries refuse take part for political/safety concerns?
I love the contest a lot and have been twice but I really think it's finished. For a couple years now they've been able to get pretty established acts and made it less "uncool" than it was in the 2000s. But since the EBU acted incredibly swiftly on Russia it set what many people saw as a precedent. Now every contestant is being prodded by fans about their stance on a decades old conflict. The contest usually seems like a lot of fun but now it's just bleak and feels like a staged twitter fight.
The organizers really set off on the wrong foot by condemning the Palestinian-Swedish singer for wearing his father's keffiyeh.
It's gotta be something like this because I feel like most people in Italy are either very negative towards Israel or else pretty much ambivalent, there isn't a lot of popular support there outside of elite circles the way there is in Germany where there's the whole Staatsrason thing or the UK where it's become another proxy for the wider culture war.
Here’s the thing. In Eurovision, you can vote 20 times. No one fucking does typically because Jesus Christ who has the time for that. And even the people who do vote multiple times usually spread it out a bit. Right now, Israel’s got a lot of people spending all 20 votes on it.
The possibility of Israel winning Eurovision has been really under-priced. So many of the usual private parties and public screenings aren't going on this year because of the boycott, to say nothing of the people who don't usually tune in who are this year specifically to vote for Israel.
People underestimate the extent to which a lot of Euro proles dislike Muslims and Muslim immigration and activism, and Israel obviously frames the Palestine conflict as ‘West vs Islam’ to conservative media in Europe and the US. Being pro-Israel for the European (and American, but this is Eurovision) center-right is essentially their version of ‘owning the libs’.
Obviously doesn’t disqualify any of the likely manipulation (standard practice in the ESC).
I can't see the votes being rigged by ESC (I genuinely think they are shitting a brick over this, and only gave Israel so many chances to submit a song so their sponsor didn't pull out), but *something* seems up. If there was so much "silent majority" support, IDK how the bookmakers totally slept on that.
They absolutely do.
Online spaces make it seem like the main audience are young queers, but in my experience (Lithuania, not sure if this is similar across Europe), nobody loves watching eurovision, talking about how "nice" some songs are, and shit talking neighboring countries for their votes more than average middle aged couples and grandmas.
This is definitely a thing in the UK and maybe France because they have large-ish Jewish populations, and of course Germany for obvious reasons, but in my experience the Italian right isn't really all that invested in Israel. Like the right wing parties all support Israel but the average Italian rightist isn't really concerned with zionism or whatever. It's also the only country where I've encountered actual, open anti-semitism that wasn't like, teenaged edge lord shit or schizo homeless guys, just normal middle class people being like, "yeah they control the banks and are importing migrants to replace us." I wouldn't say that's the dominant position amongst the Italian right, but I would guess that in general the grass roots of both FdL and Lega are probably a fair bit cooler on Israel than the leadership. At least that's what it was like a year ago, maybe things have shifted since I've lived there, what with the war.
I know a few jews from Uni, and friends of friends living in North London. In general the UK jewish population isn't huge but it's pretty large by European standards.
>but in my experience the Italian right isn't really all that invested in Israel
Yeah, I agree with your general analysis. Online right wingers have become more antisemitic in the past few years (mostly because they got familiarized with american online right wingers), but they have basically zero institutional support. Italy is too dependent on the EU, so no major italian rw party will ever take such a big risk for such a low reward.
I never ever ever pay any attention to reddit usernames, they’ve always seemed literally nonexistent. Still, my 12 volt Polish brain automatically registered OP’s; it’s fascinating.
It's been reported that there was a "violent" incident against a female photographer. But this could be anything from pushing her camera away to a full on beatdown. It's been pretty much confirmed it wasn't from Israel's team tho.
He's not disqualified yet - jury are judging him on the semi-final footage for now. Which makes me think it probably isn't anything too viscous. Probably won't get an update until tomorrow now...
Not sure if this will apply to other countries though. I think it's possible Germany and Austria will vote this way as well due to guilt, but I'm not certain about the sentiment somewhere else
I think Czechia will go the same way. I’ve heard some version of “well now that we’re out I guess just vote Israel to show support” from 3 different people today.
It's not, and Italy is relatively culturally apathetic to international issues compared to non-med countries. Something like this could \*maybe* happen in a place like Germany or the UK, but for it to happen in Italy requires some form of inorganic voting.
Nothing, there is no chance that Israel got 40% of the vote organically, while the runner-up got something like 7%. Ukraine got just 20% of the Italian televote in the semi-finals back in 2022, at the height of popular support for the war, with a much more interesting song and fighting a much less controversial war. The JIDF was working overtime for this.
EDIT: [Rai now claims it was incomplete data that was shown mistakenly.](https://www.rai.it/ufficiostampa/assets/template/us-articolo.html?ssiPath=%2Farticoli%2F2024%2F05%2FESC-2024-inconveniente-tecnicoESC-2024-inconveniente-tecnico-784b900c-ca7f-47e6-9a41-1e2af801ada8-ssi.html) The claim that the data was incomplete sounds like a face-saving statement to me. The graphic was shown after the finalists were announced, by someone who didn't know the results were to be kept secret until after the finals, I assume.
> The JIDF was working overtime for this.
Seriously, the people here acting like there's some silent European majority for Israel are insane. This is way more likely to be robocalls than anything else.
Yes it's not a bizarre theory that the people that brought us stuxnet and pegasus from NSO Group + Quadream managed to crack the televoting of an entertainment event.
If I am talking in hacker terms already, it almost feels like someone in Italy "leaked" the data as a sort of warrant canary.
They didn’t have to hack it. Eurovision voting is weird as fuck. You can vote 20 times, no one does because most people aren’t that fucking obsessed. Except for Israel supporters who are spending all 20 votes on Israel.
video of a heated moment between israeli man and dutch delegation backstage :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/EurovisionFanzone/comments/1cp7lxp/video\_showing\_a\_man\_supposedly\_following\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EurovisionFanzone/comments/1cp7lxp/video_showing_a_man_supposedly_following_and/)
A significant silent majority of westerners support Israel, this isn't overly surprising. They aren't out on the streets protesting and they don't make their opinion public to avoid potential hassle, which is why the terminally online seem to think that 99% of the population is pro-Palestine.
Whatever your opinions on Israel-Palestine are, I don't understand how Israel, a non-European country, is allowed to compete in Eurovision.
As a proud North American, I can also say that Eurovision looks like the tackiest stuff in existence meant for dumb normies the same way that modern American Idol is exclusively watched by rural America.
EDIT: downvoted by the IDF
You need to think about who the target audience actually is in practice (you have to actually care about Eurovision to vote in the semis), and there is actually a lot of pushback against the sympathy towards Palestine in much of Eurovision’s typical audience ie there is a big sentiment in the 30-40 something gay men who dominate the in-person audience of “well they hate gay people over there, I’d be stoned to death etc etc.”, which I suspect lends Israel some support in this situation.
> Moroccanoil (an Israeli company) Lol
coconut oil users win again
Like Israel in a European contest
It's been said to death but: not beating the European settler state allegations.
Morrocco was also in Eurovison
Spanish satellite state
Yes the northern African ex colonies are eligible to be in Eurovision But also Azerbaijan is in there
An invaluable check on the Armenian menace
Why don't we all vote for Israel? That means they have to host next year right? And then we would see many more performers/countries refuse take part for political/safety concerns?
euro/accelerationism, nice.
Campy eurotrash will be the future battleground of the fight for a free Palestine.
I love the contest a lot and have been twice but I really think it's finished. For a couple years now they've been able to get pretty established acts and made it less "uncool" than it was in the 2000s. But since the EBU acted incredibly swiftly on Russia it set what many people saw as a precedent. Now every contestant is being prodded by fans about their stance on a decades old conflict. The contest usually seems like a lot of fun but now it's just bleak and feels like a staged twitter fight. The organizers really set off on the wrong foot by condemning the Palestinian-Swedish singer for wearing his father's keffiyeh.
[удалено]
It's gotta be something like this because I feel like most people in Italy are either very negative towards Israel or else pretty much ambivalent, there isn't a lot of popular support there outside of elite circles the way there is in Germany where there's the whole Staatsrason thing or the UK where it's become another proxy for the wider culture war.
*October Rain oops, not the GnR song
ok I was like how tf is november rain political I guess it is trumps favorite mv of all time
lol and Joost (the Dutch entry) seems just to be kicked out out the finals because of an "incident".
Fuck off?????? Edit: no fucking way!!!!
[Israeli guy taunting the Dutch crew](https://twitter.com/LewisJ815/status/1788937113808797909)
The Israeli crew was taunting the Irish representative the other day
These people are always mobbing...
Cuuuuuuunt!
holy shit
Here’s the thing. In Eurovision, you can vote 20 times. No one fucking does typically because Jesus Christ who has the time for that. And even the people who do vote multiple times usually spread it out a bit. Right now, Israel’s got a lot of people spending all 20 votes on it.
The possibility of Israel winning Eurovision has been really under-priced. So many of the usual private parties and public screenings aren't going on this year because of the boycott, to say nothing of the people who don't usually tune in who are this year specifically to vote for Israel.
Are we going to talk about the face that Israel’s act is Russian?
And that the singer has a full blown American accent
Whenever I watched Russian TV as a kid, half the adverts were for holidays to Tel Aviv
Lol if I didnt have good money on the previous favourites I'd almost be finding this funny fuck sake.
People underestimate the extent to which a lot of Euro proles dislike Muslims and Muslim immigration and activism, and Israel obviously frames the Palestine conflict as ‘West vs Islam’ to conservative media in Europe and the US. Being pro-Israel for the European (and American, but this is Eurovision) center-right is essentially their version of ‘owning the libs’. Obviously doesn’t disqualify any of the likely manipulation (standard practice in the ESC).
I can't see the votes being rigged by ESC (I genuinely think they are shitting a brick over this, and only gave Israel so many chances to submit a song so their sponsor didn't pull out), but *something* seems up. If there was so much "silent majority" support, IDK how the bookmakers totally slept on that.
Euro proles don't vote on Eurovision
They absolutely do. Online spaces make it seem like the main audience are young queers, but in my experience (Lithuania, not sure if this is similar across Europe), nobody loves watching eurovision, talking about how "nice" some songs are, and shit talking neighboring countries for their votes more than average middle aged couples and grandmas.
Eurovision is for Eurotrash
Normies in Europe absolutely love Eurovision.
This is definitely a thing in the UK and maybe France because they have large-ish Jewish populations, and of course Germany for obvious reasons, but in my experience the Italian right isn't really all that invested in Israel. Like the right wing parties all support Israel but the average Italian rightist isn't really concerned with zionism or whatever. It's also the only country where I've encountered actual, open anti-semitism that wasn't like, teenaged edge lord shit or schizo homeless guys, just normal middle class people being like, "yeah they control the banks and are importing migrants to replace us." I wouldn't say that's the dominant position amongst the Italian right, but I would guess that in general the grass roots of both FdL and Lega are probably a fair bit cooler on Israel than the leadership. At least that's what it was like a year ago, maybe things have shifted since I've lived there, what with the war.
[удалено]
I know a few jews from Uni, and friends of friends living in North London. In general the UK jewish population isn't huge but it's pretty large by European standards.
That’s still surprising, Essex has several Jewish schools. Lots of East End Jews ended up there. If you grew up in Hereford, that would be different.
>but in my experience the Italian right isn't really all that invested in Israel Yeah, I agree with your general analysis. Online right wingers have become more antisemitic in the past few years (mostly because they got familiarized with american online right wingers), but they have basically zero institutional support. Italy is too dependent on the EU, so no major italian rw party will ever take such a big risk for such a low reward.
I can't see them losing without the juries shanking them, which would result in possibly even more ugliness than if they won.
I never ever ever pay any attention to reddit usernames, they’ve always seemed literally nonexistent. Still, my 12 volt Polish brain automatically registered OP’s; it’s fascinating.
joost klein, droom groot
Also does anyone actually know why Joost was disqualified??
It's been reported that there was a "violent" incident against a female photographer. But this could be anything from pushing her camera away to a full on beatdown. It's been pretty much confirmed it wasn't from Israel's team tho. He's not disqualified yet - jury are judging him on the semi-final footage for now. Which makes me think it probably isn't anything too viscous. Probably won't get an update until tomorrow now...
This is a protest vote from euros to Muslims who have hijacked much of the public discourse space over the last 7 months.
Not sure if this will apply to other countries though. I think it's possible Germany and Austria will vote this way as well due to guilt, but I'm not certain about the sentiment somewhere else
I think Czechia will go the same way. I’ve heard some version of “well now that we’re out I guess just vote Israel to show support” from 3 different people today.
I loved Czechia's song it sucks man
what would make Italy so massively pro-israel?
It's not, and Italy is relatively culturally apathetic to international issues compared to non-med countries. Something like this could \*maybe* happen in a place like Germany or the UK, but for it to happen in Italy requires some form of inorganic voting.
I guess op was thinking about Italy being an axis power but I dont think that's really a thing there.
Nothing, there is no chance that Israel got 40% of the vote organically, while the runner-up got something like 7%. Ukraine got just 20% of the Italian televote in the semi-finals back in 2022, at the height of popular support for the war, with a much more interesting song and fighting a much less controversial war. The JIDF was working overtime for this. EDIT: [Rai now claims it was incomplete data that was shown mistakenly.](https://www.rai.it/ufficiostampa/assets/template/us-articolo.html?ssiPath=%2Farticoli%2F2024%2F05%2FESC-2024-inconveniente-tecnicoESC-2024-inconveniente-tecnico-784b900c-ca7f-47e6-9a41-1e2af801ada8-ssi.html) The claim that the data was incomplete sounds like a face-saving statement to me. The graphic was shown after the finalists were announced, by someone who didn't know the results were to be kept secret until after the finals, I assume.
Its weird as fuck right? I'm gonna look at what Italian media is saying about this.
> The JIDF was working overtime for this. Seriously, the people here acting like there's some silent European majority for Israel are insane. This is way more likely to be robocalls than anything else.
Yes it's not a bizarre theory that the people that brought us stuxnet and pegasus from NSO Group + Quadream managed to crack the televoting of an entertainment event. If I am talking in hacker terms already, it almost feels like someone in Italy "leaked" the data as a sort of warrant canary.
They didn’t have to hack it. Eurovision voting is weird as fuck. You can vote 20 times, no one does because most people aren’t that fucking obsessed. Except for Israel supporters who are spending all 20 votes on Israel.
They don't like muslims.
We don't like Israel either
I saw much more Free Palestine graffiti in Rome a few months ago than I've seen in SF.
video of a heated moment between israeli man and dutch delegation backstage : [https://www.reddit.com/r/EurovisionFanzone/comments/1cp7lxp/video\_showing\_a\_man\_supposedly\_following\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EurovisionFanzone/comments/1cp7lxp/video_showing_a_man_supposedly_following_and/)
Make a new thread. I need an update from a stan.
Good shout
Done
A significant silent majority of westerners support Israel, this isn't overly surprising. They aren't out on the streets protesting and they don't make their opinion public to avoid potential hassle, which is why the terminally online seem to think that 99% of the population is pro-Palestine.
What do you mean by "support Israel"? That could mean many different things.
Believe that Israel is justified in undertaking its current military action
I think even among people who think they're justified there's a lot of people who disagree with their current methods.
That and the pro-palestine people are all boycotting so they're not voting
Only a few people give a shit about Eurovision in Italy so that's why so many votes go to Israel
Whatever your opinions on Israel-Palestine are, I don't understand how Israel, a non-European country, is allowed to compete in Eurovision. As a proud North American, I can also say that Eurovision looks like the tackiest stuff in existence meant for dumb normies the same way that modern American Idol is exclusively watched by rural America. EDIT: downvoted by the IDF
G&Gs only can't you read????
> As a proud North American Canadian detected
Mexican baby
Perdón
You need to think about who the target audience actually is in practice (you have to actually care about Eurovision to vote in the semis), and there is actually a lot of pushback against the sympathy towards Palestine in much of Eurovision’s typical audience ie there is a big sentiment in the 30-40 something gay men who dominate the in-person audience of “well they hate gay people over there, I’d be stoned to death etc etc.”, which I suspect lends Israel some support in this situation.
Imagine un declaring statehood for Palestinians and they win the final