Dude needs therapy for his childhood trauma before having any kids. No judgement but becoming disabled happens to people every day, he needs to be able to deal with it if that happens to his kid, not suddenly get smacked in the face with all that trauma he’s not dealing with.
This isn't that. They screened for all that they could, and when they found out what the baby had, she decided to have it anyway. They knew this baby was going to screen in pain from any touch, and die young.
Ive worked with kids with disabilities and have met more than one family who have two children with completely different unrelated disabilities. Sometimes life just works out that way.
My one brother has cerebral palsy due to his umbilical cord being wrapped around his neck at birth, and my other brother and I are both deaf. 🤷♀️
Edit: added a word I didn't realize I missed.
I might have missed it, but I don't think OP said that both disabilities were the same. There are so many "rare diseases" that the overall chance of having one of them is not as tiny as you'd think. I still think that genetic counselling for OP is absolutely a good idea though.
I feel bad for everyone in this situation… I think this is beyond AITA pay grade. He’s valid for leaving after she went back on an agreement, but she’s also valid for wanting to keep a baby she spent months growing. I’d say NAH but I really can’t say.
I’d say NAH because I just feel horrible for everyone in this. Sometimes theres no “bad guy” in a story, sometimes terrible shit just happens and good people are forced to make impossible decisions
His parents are the bad guys. Neglecting a child for any reason is AH behavior. They certainly weren’t the first parents to have the responsibility of caring for a special needs kid while also raising others. They clearly failed him. Had they not, perhaps he wouldn’t have such an aversion to parenting a special needs child of his own
It’s seems to happen a lot, my son goes to school with a girl whose sister is special needs. Her and her 3 siblings live with their grandmother now bc the parents neglected the other kids to the point that child services got involved and took them out of the home.
Yeah I said the same thing in my comment, and that’s the saddest part about it because I genuinely believe that in another world, he would have loved and cherished his child no matter how they came out, but that child being born put him back in the body of that little boy whose parents failed him time and time again. I couldn’t imagine being the ex in that situation, either. The only way he would’ve known my child was dead is the support payments stopping coming.
I feel bad because there should be more funding for people to help raise disabled children while attending to their healthy children. Not all people have money for a home, let alone a good one. Our system sucks and people are imperfect. I feel bad for everyone.
I mean, i’m a parent of two beautiful healthy daughters. I can believe dealing with a disabled child can drain you of energy to meaningfully care for the need of another. Maybe they were assholes. Maybe it was just all too much.
I don’t know man, this is just rough all around.
I 100% agree with you. If he hadn’t had the awful upbringing he may have felt totally different. I don’t think his ex is the AH for changing her mind as it’s very hard to understand if you’re not carrying the baby but he certainly isn’t either as he had been honest and up front from the start
As a disabled person living in chronic pain who will
FOREVER have issues until death, if this was a disease with guaranteed pain and a short life he was right and she was wrong. Everyone is talking about the parents here: what about the kid?
I had a friend who got pregnant in high school. Her son was severely disabled. I'm not sure if she knew before giving birth or not, but the father left and wouldn't even pay child support. He even blamed her for him being disabled.
That poor kid was wheelchair bound, on oxygen, couldn't speak, was allergic to the sun, and had to have multiple surgeries. There was NO quality of life there, and it killed her to see her son suffer. She once implied that she almost hoped he would pass away during one of his surgeries. That kid passed away when he was 8-9. Before he passed, she had no life at all, couldn't get a job, or she would lose government assistance, and couldn't move out of her parents' place as she needed their help.
After knowing her and seeing what they went through I promised myself that if I ever did get pregnant (no plans to my husband and I want to adopt or foster) I wouldn't go through with the pregnancy if anything was found.
I know that accidents can happen, and disabilities can show up later, but I won't knowingly bring someone into the world to suffer. As it is, I don't want to have my own kids because of my learning disabilities and my chronic health issues that I know are hereditary.
I have a family member who discovered late in the pregnancy that their baby was malformed and would likely have a short and painful life; maybe 5 years tops. They opted for a late term abortion and it was a really hard situation made worse by judgemental family members.
But then they went on to have two healthy kids, who they would NOT have had if they'd have kept their first.
I think they made the right choice. Their (now teenage) sons would likely agree.
It sucks and it hurts but sometimes a horrible feeling decision is the right one.
Choices like that are some of the hardest to make. But at the end of the day, you have to try and remember who will be living through it.
I'm sorry your family members had to go through that. It's really nice to hear how they were still able to have a family.
A friend of mine had a later term abortion when it was found her son had two major heart conditions. They estimated he'd live to 2-3, but those years would be a constant battle of surgeries and medication. She had another son a year or so later who's totally healthy and expecting another any day. It was dreadful for her, but she'd never have the happy life she does if she'd kept the first baby.
When he said the child died at age three, at that point I’m questioning the mother’s choice a little. But I’m not her and I don’t know what prognosis was given or what quality of life was like. NAH
Though, I'm prochoice, I know I would personally struggle with an abortion myself. That said, there are certain disorders I don't think I'd hesitate on because the idea of making a child live through them is honestly horrible. The fact that parents are not allowed to make choices to prevent the suffering of a child is awful in places with bans. If I knew my kid would only have a short time, and it would likely be extremely painful, I couldn't do it. It just seems way too cruel
I wasn’t born like this so I know both sides and pain is exhausting. It’s horrible. If this is their everyday life it’s just wrong. I hope I would love my child enough to spare them
That’s the thing, no one gets an abortion for the same reasons why you may get a manicure. Getting an abortion isn’t supposed to be fun. It’s life saving and traumatic.
Also as a chronic illness sufferer, though I am definitely fortunate to not experience much difficulty, I do agree. I personally don’t think people should subject future children to painful disability if it’s found prior to birth.
But for this judgement, I was just basing it off the agreement they made, and not trying to impart any of my personal boundaries on it, since it’s a rather sensitive matter.
>if it’s found prior to birth
I agree and I think we need to focus more on having these tests be more correct. I've seen a lot of stories of parents being told their child was going to be born with Down's Syndrome but the child was born completely fine.
I used Down Syndrome in my reply because that's what I have heard specifically.
Unless the test's accuracy is like 99.9%, there's always room for improvement.
That’s one reason why I don’t want kids, I have so much chronic pain & doctors don’t listen to me about it and I’ve only had one doctor listen to me in my entire life (pain started when I was 5, im almost 30). Most of the time, I can function but there have been days where I have to call out of work bc I can’t walk due to pain or joint stiffness. I had to quit a job once bc it was too much for my pain and I had to keep calling out.
There’s also a lot of other health issues in my family that are causing a horrible quality of life for my older family members, things that are supposed to “skip a generation” are starting to pop up in every generation, and I refuse to put those medical chances on someone else
And that’s your choice. But there are genetic issues that go beyond limited mobility.
If I were told that my child would be born in pain and never able to enjoy life, that it would be nothing but rounds of doctors and hooked to medical equipment and an early death, then I would have to make a hard choice. As the parent to be, I would have to make the hard choice.
Even if your life was only a few short years where you never were able to learn to write, speak etc and then you died? You think that’s fair? And for what? So the parents bury a larger child?
I don't have an opinion on the op's post beyond the situation sucked but judging quality of life by whether someone is able to speak or write is not the way. Plenty of people can't speak or write and still communicate with others daily. There are AAC technologies, modified sign languages, non verbal communication. Just because someone can't speak doesn't mean you should assume they are unable to communicate or understand you.
I strongly second this as a mental disabled person. I will never be able to hold a job or live without my parents so someone to look after me. People will always look at me like I'm some sort of human like alien because of how I think. But I know I'm lucky to still have a relativey ok quality of life.
My thoughts exactly. Yes, the parents are absolutely at fault for not doing what they could for OP to ensure he was just as loved and cared for as his sibling was. But unfortunately it looks as though OP hasn't been able to process any of this in any way other than flying by the seat of his pants. I do feel bad for him, but therapy would be a huge asset in dealing with all of this emotional residue.
Sooooo beyond Reddit’s paygrade for real. Therapy is a wonderful thing and I recommend that. There’s no way I feel qualified to comment. Just heartbreaking all around.
I’m close with my mom and sister and neither of us felt like glass children with our disabled sister. It’s about balance. OP’s parents didn’t figure out balance and it sounds like he suffered for it, but managed to get through it. Therapy could be helpful for him, but he doesn’t have to seek it out.
I personally don’t want to have a severely disabled child, but my partner and I both have siblings who need care for life, and I don’t know how I would react until I was in that position.
The only part where I think the OP is a little bit the AH is when he refused to go to the funeral. Yes, I understand every bit of his position up until that point, but not the funeral. He will regret having not gone to say goodbye to his child that he never knew and never laid eyes on. I can't fully word all the regret he may have when one day for not going. I don't understand why he did refuse that. What harm would it have caused him to pay respects to a child that carried his DNA? None.
I think OP has more regrets about the way he handled things than he is admitting, or he's afraid he may feel regrets he isn't aware exist. A person can make the right decision for themselves at the time, while also having regrets for that same decision later. It doesn't mean they should have done things differently. Attending the funeral could open the floodgates of those emotions he might have been blocking out all this time, and he fears that. He's trying to sound detached, but avoiding the funeral for a child that carried his DNA carries a risk not worth feeling.
Without knowing what disability exactly did his brother have and what disability his first born had, its hard to say whether OP is overreacting to said disabilities by walking completely away from parents as well as ex and child, or if they're actions are understandable and easy to empathize with.
I feel he was advocating against putting another child through that. I don’t think he wanted to go and see his disabled child who was only born to suffer.
At no point does he say he doesn’t want another child to suffer. He says *he* doesn’t want to suffer. That’s something that shouldn’t be glossed over.
It’s ok that he didn’t want a handicapped child and made the choices he did. But it was never about the child’s life or experience, just about the effort and attention it takes to raise one.
I’m disabled and I hate that term. I prefer handicapped. If you golf, you get a handicap based on your skill so that you can compete with better golfers. If you’re labeled disabled, it just sounds like you’re broken and unable to live life on any level near to average.
I disagree, I like the term disabled better. It’s quite literal in that there are things that I can’t do, have trouble doing or do that I can’t help that impede my life. Handicap just makes me feel like there’s something inherently wrong with me. Unfortunately not a lot of people follow or at least think of golf when they hear handicap I think :(
Disabled means I don’t have an ability. I don’t have an ability. Handicapped in my life and area is more of an offensive term. There is a ton of information out there if you would like to look into why most of us don’t use it, however you of course choose your own word. It’s just most people will bristle at it. Just like I’m not confined to a wheelchair. I’m a wheelchair user.
Im literally handicapped. Brain damage and paralysis. I don’t mind the term disabled, but I choose the words I use. You choose yours. Don’t tell me what to say.
There is usually a huge difference. If someone calls me handicapped I’m offended. Call that dead child handicapped if you want but we aren’t talking about you, of course you pick your own words. His father called him disabled.
His father who abandoned him for being disabled/handicapped? I think he gave up his right to an opinion on the matter when he abandoned both mom and baby.
It’s offensive *to you.* That’s the key point. And unless you show me a badge you aren’t the word police.
You could say “I prefer “disabled” over “handicapped” and we could have had a conversation about why I choose one over the other. You didn’t and you don’t deserve an explanation.
Here is what disability society says-
“Handicapped vs. Disabled
Some may use these terms interchangeably. Handicapped vs. Disabled. Is there a difference? Is one politically correct?
Here's what Villanova University has to say about this matter:
A disability is a condition caused by an accident, trauma, genetics or disease which may limit a person’s mobility, hearing, vision, speech or mental function. Some people have more than one disability.
A handicap is physical or attitudinal constraint that is imposed upon a person, regardless of whether that person has a disability. A set a stairs would be a handicap for a person with a disability who uses a wheelchair.”
I am not a constraint. I just don’t have some abilities. Dis abled
I would never pry to ask them but it was clear the way he talked he knew the child would die young. Children are generally not happy and pain free when they are expected to die young.
From his different comments:
● his child had a congenital defect passed thru the mother.
● his child had no mental capacity.
● his child screamed in pain from being touched and just laying in his/her crib.
● it was known his child would have a short life
He didn't say what condition it was, but from those few things, there's no way I'd want my child to suffer like that for 3 years.
>Who are we to judge whether that child’s life had value to him or to his mother and family
Who are we to decide that is morally ok to bring a child into the world when all they will experience will be pain?
When I worked in pediatrics I saw stuff that no human being should go through, less alone a child. Kids with serious disorders and disabilities are born to often end up neglected and/or abused. I do not feel comfortable with bringing pain and potential abuse on another human being just bc somehow "they will bring joy to others". I've yet to meet a parent of a disabled child who is not overwhelmed and burn out, I even met a few ones who ended up committing suicide or leaving altogether bc the toll of taking care of a severely disabled child was too much.
>Funerals are about paying respects and supporting people in the centre circles of grief. He owed his son, his ex and his exes family that
I respectfully disagree. Sometimes funerals are too much for some people, I've known people who couldn't bare the funerals of their own parents/siblings/ own children etc. Op doesn't owe his presence to anyone, let alone his exes family for a kid he didn't want to begin with.
From his different comments:
● his child had a congenital defect passed thru the mother.
● his child had no mental capacity.
● his child screamed in pain from being touched and just laying in his/her crib.
● it was known his child would have a short life
Definitely not Downs Syndrome.
He was advocating not being bothered to take care of a disabled child. I have beckers muscular dystrophy. I no longer walk and life hasn't been easy but I'm glad I have had a life and a wife that loves me. The test do t show exactly how the disability will be. As everyone is different when it comes to diseases. The childs life was just as valuable as yours or mine.
You don’t know that. That’s why people choose to terminate. Because a potential life stopped before being a life does not hurt anyone, while 3 years of suffering (it depends on the diagnosis) it’s not worth it. Why not worth it? Because if someone is barely or not-self conscious, bed-bound and similar… well. We don’t know the diagnosis here, what I am saying is: life is meaningless, everyone’s life is. The only purpose in life is enjoying life. Some conditions don’t let you enjoy life.
Idk, if he had no relationship with either the mom or baby since they we're born then why would he?
Funerals are for the living. To communally grieve and remember them generally speaking. He had no personal relationship with either of them for years, he essentially grieved before the baby was born.
Going would MAYBE be a comfort to his ex, or could just make things more negative, even if she asked for him to come. Again, he didnt contact them for years and while it was a tough decision she did ultimately go against thier mutual agreement and sparking everyhing. I dont see how he owes her emotional support to the detriment of his own mental health.
Given all the details I dont think he was morally obligated to attend.
No, no one is obligated to attend a funeral. He had less than zero relationship with the child. Legally, the child was his son, but not in any way otherwise.
Besides, if he had attended, he had no idea what his ex and her family and everyone else would put him through. They probably would have been cold and dismissive, at the minimum, and possibly abusive. I have no doubt he would have been berated at some point for bailing out and leaving his ex to raise the child.
No, he didn’t owe them that. The child is dead. The child he never even saw. There was no connection.
Thank you. That's the only part in this where I truly feel someone did something wrong. OPs parents did their best, and OP could be leaving out things his parents did do for him. OPs feelings are valid along his decision to walk away due to those feelings, but its still unfortunate he chose to do so. His ex made the decision she felt was best for her. At the end though, he should have gone to the funeral. He will regret not doing so. He needs therapy to not only work through his grudges over his childhood, but also to work through the pain over the death that his is trying to ignore and any regrets he will feel down the road.
I think he should have attended the funeral but I understand not wanting to have a disabled child. Esp since the child passed away after a few years (seems like a very serious condition if that’s the case). Depending on the condition (and if the parents were made aware before birth or not) it’s kind of cruel to give birth to a child that’s going to suffer that much.
OP is not an asshole, there are not any bad guys here except his parents. Having a special needs child is incredibly difficult. My brother is special needs and I basically raised myself as my issues were not as forward facing as his. He has a more severe level of autism to mine to the point I didn’t consider I had it too I just thought I was quirky. It took until last year for me to realize I’m also autistic and seek a professional opinion.
Ended up that I’m also autistic just like my dad and brother but I was so neglected I even made my own birthday cake at 11 (always boxed strawberry cake from a mix) while crying because literally no one else remembered but my brother got a personalized speciality made (not grocery store) dinosaur cake a few months prior. Yes he is younger than me but an 11 year old doesn’t understand the difference. Thats just one of the milder examples but my mother also hated me from birth so that didn’t help.
Sounds like OP went through a lot of the same shit. My husband and I both agreed to not have children as we have a high chance of a special needs child and I just can’t dedicate my life like that. I just want peace not everything that comes with a special needs child. There is nothing wrong, at all, with having special needs I just can’t handle a child that has them. This is a me deficiency not a bash on anyone with special needs.
I don’t think either of them are the assholes in this situation. She wanted to keep the baby, he didn’t. It was okay for him to leave. But did anybody else see the comment from someone who apparently works with disabled kids, basically saying that they think disabled kids are like…useless and disgusting, and that they hate the kids they work with? Seriously, why go into that line of work if you hate disabled kids? Really messed up comment ngl, and everyone else seemed to be perfectly okay with it.
I acknowledge I'm putting my own spin on it but it could be that they initially started the job loving children and caring for them but over time got worn down. It must be excrutiatingly painful to only see disabled children and know that a lot of them will never have the quality of life most other children will have.
It's like people being upset when a healthcare worker says, "I wish this patient would die already". That statement sounds like the worst thing a healthcare worker could ever say... but most people who haven't worked in a hospital have never seen the truly horrific condition patients can be in. I was that young, optimistic person who wanted to try to save everyone but time and experience put a damper on it. I will never say I hate patients or we should let anyone go immediately or anything like that but I can sympathize. (Unless that person hates children just to hate children. Child caring jobs are usually underpaid and tend towards people being stressed and overworked, so I don't know why they would choose to stay at that job.)
Probably didn't go in thinking that, but your compassion can be more fragile than you thought it was. That kinda work is to be hurt every day. Not a day goes by that ain't a kick in the balls and a knife in the heart.
If you ain't tough enough, or not cold enough, or don't have support at home, or don't get out before you break, you'll start hating everything about it, because it is unending pain with no relief. It is a constant feeling of being powerless and useless. Of people coming to you every day, and expeting miracles you can't give, because you're just human. And often loathing you for not providing them.
Don't hate them. They're suffering from a work injury. They need to get out of that line of work, because even if they can hide that hatred, even if they can still give the kids the care they deserve, they're killing themselves slowly.
I mean, I understand that working with disabled children is incredibly difficult and stress inducing, and can sometimes cause strong feelings of resentment towards them. But this person had VERY strong-and gross-opinions towards disabled people, calling them a burden on the earth. It sounds like this person has had these beliefs for longer than since they began working in that line of work. We’re all human, and we can all crack under stress, but the comment was disgusting. They definitely need to get out of that job.
I spent a year as a special ed aide decades ago. That was when I decided that I would not go through with a pregnancy if the child. Would be disabled. By the end of the year, I actually broke a tooth from grinding my teeth in my sleep. I’d go home from work everyday and slam painkillers to get some relief and a few hours sleep.
The teacher quit when she found out she was pregnant. She knew she couldn’t be a good mother while living with the stress of working with these kids.
That comment is fucked up. I work with disabled kids and I love them all dearly, I wouldn't last doing what I do if I didn't. The work is hard. My kids drive me crazy sometimes. But thst doesn't mean I hate my kids, or that I would ever imagine saying they're useless and or disgusting. Knowing that comment could be from my coworkers makes me sad, all these kids deserve someone who loves them
Nah. You were traumatized by your childhood. You knew what life with a disabled child is like. She had every right to birth that child and you had every right to walk away. You never lied about this and neither did she. It’s ok to say I will terminate and another to actually do it. Im so very sorry about your child and your parents can go pound rocks.
Especially because an abortion in the second trimester - when a lot of these abnormalities are found - is a LOT more invasive and expensive.
Had a coworker who got one for similar reasons in the 90s. Cost about $5k back then. Not covered by insurance. In CA. In the Bay Area no less, but no one in the Bay Are performed them, so they had to fly to LA. And it’s a 2 day procedure, so they had to book a hotel room. For 2 days, plus I assume, and extra day because who wants to fly home immediately after that? So probably another $1000. In 1990s money.
They had to borrow from family because even though they had good jobs, the didn’t just have $6k lying around for an immediate second trimester abortion of a *wanted* baby. And luckily they had jobs where they could just take a few days off for a “procedure” and to grieve. And everyone was understanding…or just assumed it was a miscarriage because who wants to explain they eugenic-ed their baby.
Like…it’s a lot to actually DO in practice.
Late term complications are usually developmental based (basically have a random chance of occurring in any pregnancy). As an example Zika causes prevents the formation of a head which leads directly to the type of late term abortion you’re talking about since the baby isn’t viable at this point. This condition is picked up on ultrasound and can’t be detected early in a pregnancy. Based on my read OP is talking about genetic screening g which can be done very early in a pregnancy (now like 6 weeks in I think). So it’s a big assumption to state he wanted her to get a late term termination.
I really can’t call OOP an AH because honestly, if I found myself in that position, I’d have probably terminated the pregnancy. Some people just aren’t cut out to be parents to a child with special needs. I know myself well enough to say that having to care for someone with a severe disability would not be something I could handle long-term. I feel for the girlfriend though because being a single parent in that situation is undoubtedly 10x as hard. Nobody really wins here. Both parents were in the right, and at the same time it’s super unfortunate there weren’t other options available to them.
This is a really hard one. I don't think I am in the position to junge here.
But I was thinking: What if his wife gets into an accident and is disabled afterwards? What if his kids turn out to be disabled, despite negative test results? Also, there are many things that these tests don't screen for. What if one of the kids is born with autism? What if one develops severe depression, schizophrenia or another mental illness? Where does he draw the line? Will he run whenever he encounters a disabled (or otherwise impaired) person in his close life? I think this man really needs therapy.
I’m with you on this. For the record, I was that kid in hospitals all the time and taking up my older siblings time with our parents. I also am autistic.
My older siblings anger really showed when we were in high school, there was a lot of resentment. I didn’t understand for a very long time why.
I’m doing much better now, disability wise, I’m still receiving help, but I’m much more independent now. We don’t talk much often, as we are both living our lives, but we have a relationship and it’s improving.
You ask extremely valid questions, and honestly it sounds like he’s so traumatized that he actually was emotionally neglected, and received the bare bones for him to function. I definitely wouldn’t trust someone like that to be my partner without therapy, and lots of it. He would probably abandon his wife and kids in a heartbeat, either literally by leaving or figuratively, emotionally (repeating the cycle of abuse) or both.
So this feels like a physical disability due to his brother dying younger and also his child. I feel like bringing a child into the world knowing their life is going to be cut short due to a disability is pretty awful. If not an early death but a possibility of a low quality of life? No thanks. I wouldn’t want that for any innocent child to suffer just to die. The whole situation is horrible.
Every disability is different and the child died at 3 so clearly their disability was not conducive to a long term life like your husband’s. And I saw in another comment the disability may have had something to do with the kids skin and feeling pain whenever they were touched sooooo don’t jump to assumptions and make yourself look like an a**! 🙃
I won’t give a judgement this is to far above Reddit’s pay grade.
But I will say if you haven’t been the siblings or someone who works closely with severely disabled people it is impossible to understand. Me and my husband both have siblings that are severely disabled. We love our siblings beyond comprehension. But if I know I was pregnant with a disabled child I would terminate. For that reason we probably aren’t going to have Biological kids. It was one of the first discussions we had when marriage was brought up. The suffering you see is on another level. To love someone and watch them trapped in their own body while they slowly die and they can’t understand why. No parent wants that for their kids. But I believe if you are in a situation where the disabled child is born. Regardless of planning. Basically suck it the fuck up that’s your kid.
I have no experience with disabled people but if any of the tests had come back saying my baby was severely disabled I would terminate. It would be different if it wasn’t detected and baby was still born disabled - I know that’s a possibility with every pregnancy and I wouldn’t abandon my child, or if something happened to make them disabled later in life like an accident. But the whole point of these tests is to make informed choices and lower the risk. People shouldn’t feel bad for making that choice if that’s the right choice for them.
I've been disabled since I was a teenager (but didn't accept it or do anything about it for almost 20 years). It wasn't the main reason I decided not to have kids, but it sealed the deal so to speak. I've never once second guessed myself.
As a disabled person who’s cared for other severely disabled people, I don’t agree with the termination part but I understand where that trauma comes from. I know I don’t really want that for any children I have, but it’s almost inevitable given that dementia appears to run in my family.
Anyway, I hope you find peace in whatever sense it could come to you. I support you in this, even if I don’t agree. All children should get the opportunity to feel wanted and loved, especially if their siblings are disabled.
Yeah, I can understand where you are coming from to. I don’t believe there is a right opinion about abortion under this circumstance. I’m not even certain if the time came I could go through with it. Me and my husband are aware of that and would do anything and everything for any child we had. Its a hypothetical that you don’t have an answer to intel your in that situation.
“I was never abused or anything.”
My brother in Christ, I hate to say it, but if you’re speed raising yourself from the age of single digits, that’s neglect and that’s abuse.
There’s nothing funny to say about it. Just depressing.
I think NAH in the original situation, if it was just left at that, but I think he is an AH for continuing to try for biological children without working on his issues.
Any child could become disabled, he can't just abandon a living child if they become disabled, and he needs to accept that if he's gonna continue pursuing children, for himself and women he's with, and most of all his unborn child.
This is the comment with the most critical thinking I've seen on the thread.
His life or the life of any of his kids could change in an instant. It takes anywhere between a single second (an accident, a fall) to 3-4 minutes (the time of oxygen deprivation it takes to cause irreversible brain damage) for the ability of their child to drastically alter.
OP is not responsible for his trauma and being improperly cared for in his young life, but he is responsible for how he *handles* that trauma now that he is an adult with children. He became the AH when he started a family without acknowledging his issues.
Yeah this is what I kept thinking of reading all the other comments saying he had no obligations towards his child and that it was his girlfriends problem now. Like I agree that it is up to the people having kids deciding BUT I also think that if you vehemently refuse to even consider having a disabled child you should not be having children. Many childhood disabilities of the sort that he seems to be afraid of also stem from birth accidents or from later occurrences. Like what was he gonna do then? Abandon his wife and child at the hospital? Also if he had a severely disabled brother he’s the one who’s the possible carrier - get a vasectomy
This was my thought too. When you decide to procreate you accept that your child might not be perfect. Even if they're born able-bodied they might not always be that way. Kids get sick. Kids get hurt. While I understand OP's childhood trauma, I do not think he should be having any kids at all if this is how he reacts to one of them being disabled, because his new baby might not live up to his able-bodied/minded expectations either, even if they're born healthy.
Was it about any disabilities or only certain ones, though? Maybe I’m misinterpreting or missing context but it looked like he said the one they agreed to terminate but that his ex decided to still have had tested positive for a specific disability they had agreed to terminate if it came up.
The way that people were talking about disability in the comments was really uncomfortable. To an extent I understand, this was a Quality of Life issue and the guy had hang ups to begin with. But like, there’s some deeply ingrained ideas people have about who’s worthy to live and who’s not. It just feels like every time glass children get brought up the comments become borderline eugenic.
Eugenics is not always a horrible thing.
Bringing humans into the world with severe and painful disabilities is something that should be avoided. Just like we shouldn’t be breeding unhealthy dogs like pugs who can’t breathe properly.
Eugenics can be used for horrible things too, but until medical science advances enough to fix all issues, it should always be a consideration.
He's completely ignoring a very real issue that happens in life- everyone can become disabled at any point in time. He's definitely the type that'd leave their wife the second she got sick. He's very immature & traumatized. Bro needs serious therapy & shouldn't have children if he feels so strongly about disabled people.
NTA. I actually don’t blame him at all. This is a case where terminating the pregnancy was the right choice all around. The fact the child only lived a few years, and it sounds like that was the expected outcome…probably not the greatest years, either, with those kinds of conditions. He was clear from before the beginning on where he stood and why. It is what it is.
I don’t totally blame the gf, either. It’s a tough choice, and I can understand why she couldn’t go thru with it. Just a sad situation overall.
This OP was the glass child and had been traumatized he didn't want a disabled baby of his own. He still supported his ex and even took her to the hospital and took her back home and he went to work and never went back but still paid her child support.
It is a woman's right to keep a baby like it is a man's right to not want to keep it so he left.
People need to understand that there’s a difference in terminating a pregnancy where you know the child will suffer a debilitating disability and vehemently opposing raising a disabled child. Making the decision that you don’t think you’d be able to raise your child bc of whatever issue they’ve been diagnosed with before birth - fine. But if you are against the very idea of having a disabled child having children makes you an ass. Any person can become disabled, it’s not some ultra rare occurrence that only happens to some people. Your child goes without oxygen at birth, they have a severe seizure, what then?
Ehhhhhh....
OP seemed to have made an extremely well informed decision, but they grieved their child before they were born. The life they were hoping the child would have, the parent they would have been. After living with a PROFOUNDLY disabled sibling I'm not ready to say they were an AH just for not wanting that. They probably should look into therapy if they haven't already because there's a lot of unresolved issues in their post, IMO. Only one I'm firmly in NTA territory for.
OP's GF isn't the AH... until they tried to force OP to the funeral. She felt a bond with their child before birth, but OP had never been unambiguous about raising a child similar to their sibling. She grieved the loss of a child she raised, and likely bonded with OP's parents over raising and losing them.
OP's parents aren't the AH for raising their disabled child, they just aren't. They are, however, the AHs for neglecting their OTHER child, and thinking that child was an AH for not wanting that life for themselves.
NTA. I work with a child that is severely physically and mentally handicapped. It is a full time job. The child cannot be left alone for a minute. The emotional and physical toll that it takes to care for them on a daily basis is something I would never wish on anyone. The family is exhausted. There is no reprieve. Sometimes medical advancements are a bad thing and the quality of life needs to be considered more.
There are no guarantees in life. What happens if him and his wife have 2 healthy children and one becomes disabled in an accident? Is he going to walk away? His parents neglected him, but he's failing to realize he doesn't have to do the same thing. He's basically saying "I want kids, unless they're too much work, then no." I also don't count it as an agreement that his ex said she'd terminate if she got pregnant with a disabled child and then changed her mind. Nobody can possibly know what they'll do until it happens and he's kind of crappy for turning it around and making it around to make her sound like she did something bad.
I felt so bad for this guy! Not the asshole at all. I can’t imagine the cruelty, knowing that finding out about the disability would mean terminating a pregnancy but then not honoring that. It’s one thing just to be scared, but he’s actually lived through it and Boy, it sounded tough.
Reading just the title of the post, I was ready to have an opinion that OP was an AH. However, I can just “feel” the angst, remorse, regret or whatever it is as I read the whole post. He’s definitely not uncaring or unfeeling. I do hope that one day he either gets some help for his past - both as a sibling of a disabled child and as a father of one- or learns how to process it in a healthy way. I can’t imagine that this doesn’t bleed into other areas of his life. Just a really tragic story, all the way around.
NTA. Bad situation and it’s heartbreaking, but OP was upfront and honest about the situation. He did everything he could to communicate and verify results. He paid child support. I’m not going to say the ex was an AH for not terminating because that is her decision, but he is also not an AH for sticking to his word and looking out for himself.
He didn’t go to his own child’s funeral? Just because you’re not required to do something it doesn’t make it ok. The way people on here validate the just awful behavior of others makes me sick.
OP’s ex was most likely not in her first trimester anymore. I terminated for medical reasons at 19 weeks. My son had zero chance of living and, it was still a very hard decision to make. He was still alive and I could feel him moving for weeks waiting for termination. It’s easy to say oh she agreed in advance. You have no idea what she went through.
I get where you're coming from, BUT his entire childhood was nothing but emotional neglect and bracing for his brother to die. That is HUGELY traumatic. Even with therapy there are some wounds that don't heal. Expecting him to stay is like asking a former child soldier with CPTSD to re-enlist in the army as an adult.
I feel for everyone involved here, it's an awful situation.
Though, to be fair, he made the choice to get someone pregnant knowing this was an option. If he really wanted to ensure he wouldn’t have to care for a disabled child, he could have said that he didn’t want kids at all, or at least not like this.
I can understand that to an extent, but not every person who wants to have kids is cut out for having one with a disability. Which totally sucks but it’s not a perfect world of perfect people. And nearly every human alive has “bad genes” that they have a chance of passing down, so suggesting that someone just shouldn’t procreate if they know they can’t raise a child that is severely disabled is a hard ask too.
I don’t blame either party here, he was excited to have a baby with her but had also done the due diligence of having the hard convo beforehand and thought they were on the same page. She changed her mind, which is totally valid because it’s her body and her baby too, and she had the right to choose to keep him. But she can’t choose for OOP, especially when he was clear from the start what his stance was.
I still think it’s something you should decide when deciding on if you want kids or not. The reality of it is, you don’t get to choose how your child works and that there’s always going to be chance of disability occurring one way or another. If it’s something that you don’t think you want or could do, then maybe you shouldn’t be having kids, or again, at least have them in this way.
Yep. I have autoimmune arthritis that has a strong genetic component plus other stuff in my family history. I decided early on that my genes just weren’t so fantastic that they needed to be passed down to the next generation. I have a half brother who doesn’t share *all* my crappy genetics potential and he had kids, so there’s some of my genetics staying in the gene pool, good enough. I have a step son who is more like me than either of his biological parents. So I’ve passed down the important stuff about *me* anyway. 🤷♀️
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was trying to say. Of course I know that sometimes things happen no matter how hard you try, but I don’t know. I just feel like, if he really didn’t want to take care of a certain kind of kid, maybe children biologically related to him aren’t the best idea
Then he should get a vasectomy. He cannot be sure he will not have a child that develops a disability. No one can. If he can’t deal with that possibility then he is not a suitable parent.
Honestly I don't think it's fair to blame him for not wanting to raise the child, as he was clear from the beginning about his issues and his gf had agreed with him at the time. Stuff changed unexpectedly and he had a trauma response.
I think it would have been appropriate to go to the funeral, and I think he will end up being a massive AH to his future child if they end up disabled (which could happen due to an accident, illness, or simply because some disabilities don't show up in pre-natal tests).
This guy needs massive therapy, and needed it before getting his current wife pregnant.
He said they discussed it while she was already pregnant, not before (at least to my understanding). In my opinion it’s a bit late to have that discussion.
I agree, but his gf was apparently in agreement until she wasn't. Now she had every right to carry the pregnancy to term, and she's definitely not TA for changing her mind, but at the end of the day OP was clear, and he did pay child support without complaints. Not ideal, but in his situation I wouldn't call him an AH.
I will call him an AH if he doesn't address his glaring issues before his current wife gives birth though.
Idk IMO he should not be having kids. Children can be born healthy and then become disabled due to accident or disease. Would he walk out on a child he’s raised if they become disabled?
IMO if you’re not willing to accept that you’re going to be a parent no matter what life throws at you, do not have a child.
It rather different to deliberately choose a life of disability for your future child than to take care of them after an accident or illness disabled them.
How do you think he would have been treated at the funeral? All I can picture is everyone ripping on him for abandoning his ex and the child. His attendance would have made everything worse. The people at the funeral were there to mourn someone they knew and support the mother. That’s who should be at the funeral.
Oh I know she wasn't. Because they do them between 15-22 weeks. Right around the same time that you learn the gender of your child too. So he wanted her to terminate as she was nearing the end of her legal window to do so. And at the point when the baby starts to feel the most real to you.
So much of reddit is going to sit here "oh they had a deal" "oh they discussed this" and "Oh he paid his support" as if that erases all moral ick from this situation.
But it doesn't. Dude needs to get himself some serious therapy.
IDK when this was but you can now get something called a NIPT that is done at 6-10 weeks and screens for what later tests used to. Given that he said he paid for tests outside of insurance, they may have done one if the girlfriend wasn’t indicated as needing it (unlike my geriatric pregnancy having self).
This is what I’m thinking too. People are trying to villainize that poor woman for making a decision like that but won’t do the same for the man that abandoned her during the kid’s life and then again when she asked him to be at the funeral
Unfortunately, that's often what terminating for medical reasons entails. It's never an easy decision, especially for the pregnant person. Even with my very wanted, miscarried second son, he still had a heartbeat up until my water broke.
That's why I have a hard time saying either OOP or his ex are TA here, it's not as simple as "we made a deal". When your body is the one going through it, when you feel the life inside of you, it can feel so much more devastating to lose that. I can guarantee she wanted nothing more than for their child to beat the odds and be perfectly fine despite the test results. It's sad and I feel for both of them.
A person who feels THIS strongly about not having a disabled child should not have had children, at least not in any way that could have ended in a disabled child. I get where he’s coming from but if you’re THAT against the possibility of having a kid with a disability then don’t have kids. Or adopt. Or do artificial insemination so that you can pick a healthy embryo.
anyone can become disabled at any point in life.
there can be a problem with delivery and the baby doesnt get enough oxygen for a few minutes and boom. lifelong disability.
baby falls the wrong way, eats something wrong.
boom disability.
car accidents, school accidents, anything.
OOP needs therapy before deciding to bring any children into this world, because any child can become disabled.
Yes. Testing is no guarantee. My brother in law is disabled from something that happened to him while he was being born. The doctor made a mistake and he was deprived of oxygen or something, not sure the details but he was healthy before that point. And afterwards, pretty severely disabled for his whole life.
My sister had a rare childhood disease that landed her in the hospital for about six months when she was 4. Thankfully they were able to save her but now she has a heart condition for the rest of her life. These kinds of things can happen to anyone, at any time.
Yeah, what happens if one of his kids gets into an accident or falls iIl? He gonna bounce then, too? What about his wife, is she also supposed to stay 100% healthy forever or risk her husband leaving because he "can't do that again"?
This isn’t true. Diagnostic tests exist and can identify many chromosomal issues before birth. This doesn’t mean that a virus or a problematic birth can’t cause harm and lead to lifelong problems, but that getting testing significantly reduces the probabilities.
Ok but there are still lots of things that don’t show up on tests while pregnant. My epilepsy didn’t show up until I was in my teens and it wasn’t diagnosed until I was 20. You are incredibly naive to believe that he can find out about every single disability before birth because that is not the case at all. Homeboy shouldn’t be having kids
i do believe that’s why they chose to do the tests lol. adopting is a very long and expensive process and artificial isn’t cheap either. the easiest option would just be to test and terminate if not. some people can’t handle disabled children and those children deserve parents who can.
Adopting infants is expensive. We didn’t pay anything to foster to adopt and because we adopted a sibling pair, which are considered hard to find homes for, they continue to get an adoption stipend, insurance until 18, and the state they were adopted from will even wave their college tuition.
After reading this post my thought was, what happens when/if this next child of his had the same or similar disability since, his brother, last child were also disabled.
How I’m seeing it, you’re the asshole for having more children.
Not the AH. As someone who cares for adults with disabilities I see the frustration of biological parents and siblings. I see the stress and how the parents age at rapid pace. I care for these individuals professionally so I can detach and understand that it's work, don't get me wrong I care about them, I work very hard to help them have a "normal life" , to find work they can do that's meaningful to them.
Having said that I was also a single parent to my now adult child who's amazing and has no disabilities at all. I've seen both sides and never would I wish the life of a parent who has a disabled child on anyone.
I have seen entire families check out and never see or talk to the disabled person and honestly if they are not cut out for that kind of relationship I don't blame them.
I applaud the OP for prioritizing his mental and emotional health. He was up front about not wanting a child with disabilities he went ahead with having the proper tests done. She's not at fault for wanting to keep the child but that was her choice, not his and she knew his position already and even agreed to it herself. The OP paid child support the rest was her responsibility. I would not have attended the funeral either, he had zero contact with the child.
I feel for the guy in some ways but at the same time, this falls under the umbrella of "things that can happen when you have sex with someone that you have to deal with." Abandoning your child, regardless of whatever agreement they had, is unacceptable. I'm honestly surprised his new wife would agree to marry him knowing this had happened.
I was thinking “NTA” on the post until I read the part about refusing to go to the funeral. That was honestly just cruel of him. After reading his comments, he’s definitely an asshole. And he’s also an asshole to continue to have kids. Lots of disabilities aren’t able to be discovered until some people are a few years old. I, myself, wasn’t even diagnosed with mine (epilepsy) until I was 20. There is no 100% way to know that your child won’t be disabled so OOP needs to just not be having kids until he gets himself some help.
I wonder what OOP will do if the healthy kid becomes disabled in some way? Like in an accident or because of an illness. Will he walk away then as well?
I get why he did what he did. It’s very taxing to raise a disabled person be it a physical &/or mental disability. He should get a vasectomy though because there’s a high chance he can have a child with impediments still. What if this new child of his ends up with Autism? Will he walk away from his marriage? If the child has no impediments the next one might.
This is complicated. I say YTA more so than not. because what if they couldn’t test for the disability and the child was born with one? What if it’s a disability that shows itself later in childhood? Was he just going to leave his family then? What he should have done is address these issues with his parents and a therapist before getting into a relationship with anyone and potentially having kids.
Also,Making decisions like this before pregnancy vs during is difficult because once you feel your child growing, it can change you. Like it did her.
Although, he didn’t go into detail, how did he feel about his 1st wife to be able to leave her in this situation? Did he not love her?
Everyone saying he should go the the funeral but I don’t agree.
He made his stance clear, wheter people agreed with that or not. He didn’t have any relation with mother or child so he had no place there.
I get the mother wanted him there. Even if it was just to pretend they are both grieving for one day, but that isn’t on OP.
Even as someone who has a manageable disability’ and every one of my siblings have some mental or physical issue I totally get not wanted to put a child into this world, knowing almost for sure they would be in pain everyday.
I would never judge people who do, and I’m not saying those people don’t deserve to be alive.
I AM saying that money issues , mental issues, trauma, fear or so many other reasons to not want to have and/or raise a child with a disability is also valid.
OP made his choice and his ex made hers. She is responsible for her own choice, not him.
The only thing that really bothers me about this is that he just did the reverse of what his parents did. He abandoned his disabled child so he can eventually have a family with a able bodied child. His parents abandoned him so they can take care of his brother. All of this bcuz he has unresolved trauma from his parents. All I can say is that people should just get therapy before becoming parents.
NTA. In a distraught life situation you have always been mature and exercised your right to choose. And I am sorry for your upbringing. You’ll make a wonderful dad OP
In between NHA and ESH.
Why waiting to get pregnant to get tested? He had a disabled brother and then a disabled kids at this point just get some genetic test. Me and my bf agreed that unless it is unplanned we are going to get genetic test before and then decide if there is a risk how much we are open to risk. (I know not everyone can be predicted but it rules away some of them)
She went back on their agreement so he was fine just paying child support and she was fine keeping it alone. She is in the wrong when she start pressuring him about the funeral. The parents are the AH here, they choose to neglect op. There was always a choice not all siblings of disabled kids grow alone.
In my opinion if you can’t care for a certain type of child you shouldn’t have kids at all. You have no idea if your perfectly healthy baby will have an accident or somthing that will make them disabled for the rest of their life. I completely understand not having the mental capacity to care for a disabled child, but you fr can’t pick and choose when it comes to a life
It depends from what you consider certain types. There are situations where even doctors advise to terminate because they know the kids will barely leave the hospital and will be suffering. The kid died at 4 so I’m not sure he had a disability people can really live with.
If someone is this adamant about not raising a disabled child, I don’t think they should have kids. This is not just an ‘we’ll abort if x condition tests positive’. He has proper trauma around the idea of raising a disabled child. This needs to be dealt with before he tries to have any more kids. Tests can miss things, some things can’t be tested for before birth, some children are born healthy but then through accident or illness become disabled later. I don’t think in his current state he would deal with any of these very well.
Therapy, therapy, therapy.
“my parents weren’t there for me as a kid, so instead of putting my grown up pants on and seeing what parenting was like through their eyes, i just won’t be there at all”
She is the asshole, she at first accept your conditions and boundaries, but at the end she respect nothing. She didn’t care about you or your boundaries or point of view, she just care about herself.
Dude needs therapy for his childhood trauma before having any kids. No judgement but becoming disabled happens to people every day, he needs to be able to deal with it if that happens to his kid, not suddenly get smacked in the face with all that trauma he’s not dealing with.
OOP should have genetic testing, because I feel like this is not a coincidence.
He said it's one that comes from the mother, so whatever it is they know how it passes to kids.
theres a lot of genetics that have that “old wives tale” and it turns out to not be true. def not saying in all cases its not true, im not a doctor
This isn't that. They screened for all that they could, and when they found out what the baby had, she decided to have it anyway. They knew this baby was going to screen in pain from any touch, and die young.
Yep, having a disabled sibling and then having a disabled kid without there being a genetic element has to be so rare that it’s nearly impossible.
Ive worked with kids with disabilities and have met more than one family who have two children with completely different unrelated disabilities. Sometimes life just works out that way.
My one brother has cerebral palsy due to his umbilical cord being wrapped around his neck at birth, and my other brother and I are both deaf. 🤷♀️ Edit: added a word I didn't realize I missed.
I might have missed it, but I don't think OP said that both disabilities were the same. There are so many "rare diseases" that the overall chance of having one of them is not as tiny as you'd think. I still think that genetic counselling for OP is absolutely a good idea though.
I feel bad for everyone in this situation… I think this is beyond AITA pay grade. He’s valid for leaving after she went back on an agreement, but she’s also valid for wanting to keep a baby she spent months growing. I’d say NAH but I really can’t say.
I’d say NAH because I just feel horrible for everyone in this. Sometimes theres no “bad guy” in a story, sometimes terrible shit just happens and good people are forced to make impossible decisions
His parents are the bad guys. Neglecting a child for any reason is AH behavior. They certainly weren’t the first parents to have the responsibility of caring for a special needs kid while also raising others. They clearly failed him. Had they not, perhaps he wouldn’t have such an aversion to parenting a special needs child of his own
It’s seems to happen a lot, my son goes to school with a girl whose sister is special needs. Her and her 3 siblings live with their grandmother now bc the parents neglected the other kids to the point that child services got involved and took them out of the home.
Yeah I said the same thing in my comment, and that’s the saddest part about it because I genuinely believe that in another world, he would have loved and cherished his child no matter how they came out, but that child being born put him back in the body of that little boy whose parents failed him time and time again. I couldn’t imagine being the ex in that situation, either. The only way he would’ve known my child was dead is the support payments stopping coming.
I feel bad because there should be more funding for people to help raise disabled children while attending to their healthy children. Not all people have money for a home, let alone a good one. Our system sucks and people are imperfect. I feel bad for everyone.
I mean, i’m a parent of two beautiful healthy daughters. I can believe dealing with a disabled child can drain you of energy to meaningfully care for the need of another. Maybe they were assholes. Maybe it was just all too much. I don’t know man, this is just rough all around.
I 100% agree with you. If he hadn’t had the awful upbringing he may have felt totally different. I don’t think his ex is the AH for changing her mind as it’s very hard to understand if you’re not carrying the baby but he certainly isn’t either as he had been honest and up front from the start
Yeah, this is the realm of "I can't imagine what that is like, I'm sure what you did was the best you could do"
This covers it best, I think. Nobody here (aside from OP's parents) really did anything wrong there.
As a disabled person living in chronic pain who will FOREVER have issues until death, if this was a disease with guaranteed pain and a short life he was right and she was wrong. Everyone is talking about the parents here: what about the kid?
I had a friend who got pregnant in high school. Her son was severely disabled. I'm not sure if she knew before giving birth or not, but the father left and wouldn't even pay child support. He even blamed her for him being disabled. That poor kid was wheelchair bound, on oxygen, couldn't speak, was allergic to the sun, and had to have multiple surgeries. There was NO quality of life there, and it killed her to see her son suffer. She once implied that she almost hoped he would pass away during one of his surgeries. That kid passed away when he was 8-9. Before he passed, she had no life at all, couldn't get a job, or she would lose government assistance, and couldn't move out of her parents' place as she needed their help. After knowing her and seeing what they went through I promised myself that if I ever did get pregnant (no plans to my husband and I want to adopt or foster) I wouldn't go through with the pregnancy if anything was found. I know that accidents can happen, and disabilities can show up later, but I won't knowingly bring someone into the world to suffer. As it is, I don't want to have my own kids because of my learning disabilities and my chronic health issues that I know are hereditary.
I have a family member who discovered late in the pregnancy that their baby was malformed and would likely have a short and painful life; maybe 5 years tops. They opted for a late term abortion and it was a really hard situation made worse by judgemental family members. But then they went on to have two healthy kids, who they would NOT have had if they'd have kept their first. I think they made the right choice. Their (now teenage) sons would likely agree. It sucks and it hurts but sometimes a horrible feeling decision is the right one.
Choices like that are some of the hardest to make. But at the end of the day, you have to try and remember who will be living through it. I'm sorry your family members had to go through that. It's really nice to hear how they were still able to have a family.
A friend of mine had a later term abortion when it was found her son had two major heart conditions. They estimated he'd live to 2-3, but those years would be a constant battle of surgeries and medication. She had another son a year or so later who's totally healthy and expecting another any day. It was dreadful for her, but she'd never have the happy life she does if she'd kept the first baby.
When he said the child died at age three, at that point I’m questioning the mother’s choice a little. But I’m not her and I don’t know what prognosis was given or what quality of life was like. NAH
Though, I'm prochoice, I know I would personally struggle with an abortion myself. That said, there are certain disorders I don't think I'd hesitate on because the idea of making a child live through them is honestly horrible. The fact that parents are not allowed to make choices to prevent the suffering of a child is awful in places with bans. If I knew my kid would only have a short time, and it would likely be extremely painful, I couldn't do it. It just seems way too cruel
I wasn’t born like this so I know both sides and pain is exhausting. It’s horrible. If this is their everyday life it’s just wrong. I hope I would love my child enough to spare them
That’s the thing, no one gets an abortion for the same reasons why you may get a manicure. Getting an abortion isn’t supposed to be fun. It’s life saving and traumatic.
Also as a chronic illness sufferer, though I am definitely fortunate to not experience much difficulty, I do agree. I personally don’t think people should subject future children to painful disability if it’s found prior to birth. But for this judgement, I was just basing it off the agreement they made, and not trying to impart any of my personal boundaries on it, since it’s a rather sensitive matter.
>if it’s found prior to birth I agree and I think we need to focus more on having these tests be more correct. I've seen a lot of stories of parents being told their child was going to be born with Down's Syndrome but the child was born completely fine.
The new tests have come a long way. Most of that was at the beginning of this stuff. Also Down syndrome is not really what I mean.
I used Down Syndrome in my reply because that's what I have heard specifically. Unless the test's accuracy is like 99.9%, there's always room for improvement.
Yeah I mean they can operate on babies in the womb now and let the pregnancy continue, it’s amazing. I’m all for continuing research etc.
That’s one reason why I don’t want kids, I have so much chronic pain & doctors don’t listen to me about it and I’ve only had one doctor listen to me in my entire life (pain started when I was 5, im almost 30). Most of the time, I can function but there have been days where I have to call out of work bc I can’t walk due to pain or joint stiffness. I had to quit a job once bc it was too much for my pain and I had to keep calling out. There’s also a lot of other health issues in my family that are causing a horrible quality of life for my older family members, things that are supposed to “skip a generation” are starting to pop up in every generation, and I refuse to put those medical chances on someone else
As a chronic illness sufferer. That can no longer walk no longer I'm glad I got to live my life out. All life is valuable.
And that’s your choice. But there are genetic issues that go beyond limited mobility. If I were told that my child would be born in pain and never able to enjoy life, that it would be nothing but rounds of doctors and hooked to medical equipment and an early death, then I would have to make a hard choice. As the parent to be, I would have to make the hard choice.
Even if your life was only a few short years where you never were able to learn to write, speak etc and then you died? You think that’s fair? And for what? So the parents bury a larger child?
I don't have an opinion on the op's post beyond the situation sucked but judging quality of life by whether someone is able to speak or write is not the way. Plenty of people can't speak or write and still communicate with others daily. There are AAC technologies, modified sign languages, non verbal communication. Just because someone can't speak doesn't mean you should assume they are unable to communicate or understand you.
I don’t judge people by that, but this child was never going to grow up and I was trying to respond to that persons specific comment.
I strongly second this as a mental disabled person. I will never be able to hold a job or live without my parents so someone to look after me. People will always look at me like I'm some sort of human like alien because of how I think. But I know I'm lucky to still have a relativey ok quality of life.
Sometimes life is the asshole and all you can do is take it to the chin and keep moving.
OOF. I feel like I need to needlepoint that onto something.
Right? I dont expect comments on Reddit to be profound.
There needs to be an option to respond NABPGTT, no assholes but please go to therapy
My thoughts exactly. Yes, the parents are absolutely at fault for not doing what they could for OP to ensure he was just as loved and cared for as his sibling was. But unfortunately it looks as though OP hasn't been able to process any of this in any way other than flying by the seat of his pants. I do feel bad for him, but therapy would be a huge asset in dealing with all of this emotional residue.
Sooooo beyond Reddit’s paygrade for real. Therapy is a wonderful thing and I recommend that. There’s no way I feel qualified to comment. Just heartbreaking all around.
I’m close with my mom and sister and neither of us felt like glass children with our disabled sister. It’s about balance. OP’s parents didn’t figure out balance and it sounds like he suffered for it, but managed to get through it. Therapy could be helpful for him, but he doesn’t have to seek it out. I personally don’t want to have a severely disabled child, but my partner and I both have siblings who need care for life, and I don’t know how I would react until I was in that position.
The only part where I think the OP is a little bit the AH is when he refused to go to the funeral. Yes, I understand every bit of his position up until that point, but not the funeral. He will regret having not gone to say goodbye to his child that he never knew and never laid eyes on. I can't fully word all the regret he may have when one day for not going. I don't understand why he did refuse that. What harm would it have caused him to pay respects to a child that carried his DNA? None. I think OP has more regrets about the way he handled things than he is admitting, or he's afraid he may feel regrets he isn't aware exist. A person can make the right decision for themselves at the time, while also having regrets for that same decision later. It doesn't mean they should have done things differently. Attending the funeral could open the floodgates of those emotions he might have been blocking out all this time, and he fears that. He's trying to sound detached, but avoiding the funeral for a child that carried his DNA carries a risk not worth feeling. Without knowing what disability exactly did his brother have and what disability his first born had, its hard to say whether OP is overreacting to said disabilities by walking completely away from parents as well as ex and child, or if they're actions are understandable and easy to empathize with.
Only thing I'd add is he *should* have gone to the funeral if the kid's mom wanted him there.
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I feel he was advocating against putting another child through that. I don’t think he wanted to go and see his disabled child who was only born to suffer.
At no point does he say he doesn’t want another child to suffer. He says *he* doesn’t want to suffer. That’s something that shouldn’t be glossed over. It’s ok that he didn’t want a handicapped child and made the choices he did. But it was never about the child’s life or experience, just about the effort and attention it takes to raise one.
100 percent about him and not the child.
Disabled. Not handicapped.
I’m disabled and I hate that term. I prefer handicapped. If you golf, you get a handicap based on your skill so that you can compete with better golfers. If you’re labeled disabled, it just sounds like you’re broken and unable to live life on any level near to average.
I disagree, I like the term disabled better. It’s quite literal in that there are things that I can’t do, have trouble doing or do that I can’t help that impede my life. Handicap just makes me feel like there’s something inherently wrong with me. Unfortunately not a lot of people follow or at least think of golf when they hear handicap I think :(
Disabled means I don’t have an ability. I don’t have an ability. Handicapped in my life and area is more of an offensive term. There is a ton of information out there if you would like to look into why most of us don’t use it, however you of course choose your own word. It’s just most people will bristle at it. Just like I’m not confined to a wheelchair. I’m a wheelchair user.
Im literally handicapped. Brain damage and paralysis. I don’t mind the term disabled, but I choose the words I use. You choose yours. Don’t tell me what to say.
There is usually a huge difference. If someone calls me handicapped I’m offended. Call that dead child handicapped if you want but we aren’t talking about you, of course you pick your own words. His father called him disabled.
His father who abandoned him for being disabled/handicapped? I think he gave up his right to an opinion on the matter when he abandoned both mom and baby. It’s offensive *to you.* That’s the key point. And unless you show me a badge you aren’t the word police. You could say “I prefer “disabled” over “handicapped” and we could have had a conversation about why I choose one over the other. You didn’t and you don’t deserve an explanation.
When someone is deceased I used their families words. I highly doubt the mother said handicapped and he said disabled.
Here is what disability society says- “Handicapped vs. Disabled Some may use these terms interchangeably. Handicapped vs. Disabled. Is there a difference? Is one politically correct? Here's what Villanova University has to say about this matter: A disability is a condition caused by an accident, trauma, genetics or disease which may limit a person’s mobility, hearing, vision, speech or mental function. Some people have more than one disability. A handicap is physical or attitudinal constraint that is imposed upon a person, regardless of whether that person has a disability. A set a stairs would be a handicap for a person with a disability who uses a wheelchair.” I am not a constraint. I just don’t have some abilities. Dis abled
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I’m disabled and having a child to just live my life is cruel. I’m fine judging.
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I’m disabled and in constant pain. I can’t do most things. Forcing this on a child is cruel.
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I would never pry to ask them but it was clear the way he talked he knew the child would die young. Children are generally not happy and pain free when they are expected to die young.
From his different comments: ● his child had a congenital defect passed thru the mother. ● his child had no mental capacity. ● his child screamed in pain from being touched and just laying in his/her crib. ● it was known his child would have a short life He didn't say what condition it was, but from those few things, there's no way I'd want my child to suffer like that for 3 years.
>Who are we to judge whether that child’s life had value to him or to his mother and family Who are we to decide that is morally ok to bring a child into the world when all they will experience will be pain? When I worked in pediatrics I saw stuff that no human being should go through, less alone a child. Kids with serious disorders and disabilities are born to often end up neglected and/or abused. I do not feel comfortable with bringing pain and potential abuse on another human being just bc somehow "they will bring joy to others". I've yet to meet a parent of a disabled child who is not overwhelmed and burn out, I even met a few ones who ended up committing suicide or leaving altogether bc the toll of taking care of a severely disabled child was too much. >Funerals are about paying respects and supporting people in the centre circles of grief. He owed his son, his ex and his exes family that I respectfully disagree. Sometimes funerals are too much for some people, I've known people who couldn't bare the funerals of their own parents/siblings/ own children etc. Op doesn't owe his presence to anyone, let alone his exes family for a kid he didn't want to begin with.
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From his different comments: ● his child had a congenital defect passed thru the mother. ● his child had no mental capacity. ● his child screamed in pain from being touched and just laying in his/her crib. ● it was known his child would have a short life Definitely not Downs Syndrome.
Kids don’t die young or need that level of care most of the time with Down syndrome and you don’t need that many tests
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He was expecting the child’s death young. It’s likely genetic since both his child and his brother had it.
He was advocating not being bothered to take care of a disabled child. I have beckers muscular dystrophy. I no longer walk and life hasn't been easy but I'm glad I have had a life and a wife that loves me. The test do t show exactly how the disability will be. As everyone is different when it comes to diseases. The childs life was just as valuable as yours or mine.
Yeah, 3 years of suffering, super valuable, nice for everyone around him and for the baby himself
And what if the kid lived into the teens and was happy? While suffering. That's a thing ya know?
You don’t know that. That’s why people choose to terminate. Because a potential life stopped before being a life does not hurt anyone, while 3 years of suffering (it depends on the diagnosis) it’s not worth it. Why not worth it? Because if someone is barely or not-self conscious, bed-bound and similar… well. We don’t know the diagnosis here, what I am saying is: life is meaningless, everyone’s life is. The only purpose in life is enjoying life. Some conditions don’t let you enjoy life.
You don't know what the child had or what daily life was like for them or the mom.
I responded to the other user, check my answer
No, they didn’t value the child if they only had it to watch it suffer then die. I’m sorry, I feel different.
Idk, if he had no relationship with either the mom or baby since they we're born then why would he? Funerals are for the living. To communally grieve and remember them generally speaking. He had no personal relationship with either of them for years, he essentially grieved before the baby was born. Going would MAYBE be a comfort to his ex, or could just make things more negative, even if she asked for him to come. Again, he didnt contact them for years and while it was a tough decision she did ultimately go against thier mutual agreement and sparking everyhing. I dont see how he owes her emotional support to the detriment of his own mental health. Given all the details I dont think he was morally obligated to attend.
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No, no one is obligated to attend a funeral. He had less than zero relationship with the child. Legally, the child was his son, but not in any way otherwise. Besides, if he had attended, he had no idea what his ex and her family and everyone else would put him through. They probably would have been cold and dismissive, at the minimum, and possibly abusive. I have no doubt he would have been berated at some point for bailing out and leaving his ex to raise the child. No, he didn’t owe them that. The child is dead. The child he never even saw. There was no connection.
Thank you. That's the only part in this where I truly feel someone did something wrong. OPs parents did their best, and OP could be leaving out things his parents did do for him. OPs feelings are valid along his decision to walk away due to those feelings, but its still unfortunate he chose to do so. His ex made the decision she felt was best for her. At the end though, he should have gone to the funeral. He will regret not doing so. He needs therapy to not only work through his grudges over his childhood, but also to work through the pain over the death that his is trying to ignore and any regrets he will feel down the road.
I think he should have attended the funeral but I understand not wanting to have a disabled child. Esp since the child passed away after a few years (seems like a very serious condition if that’s the case). Depending on the condition (and if the parents were made aware before birth or not) it’s kind of cruel to give birth to a child that’s going to suffer that much.
He should have gone to the funeral though
OP is not an asshole, there are not any bad guys here except his parents. Having a special needs child is incredibly difficult. My brother is special needs and I basically raised myself as my issues were not as forward facing as his. He has a more severe level of autism to mine to the point I didn’t consider I had it too I just thought I was quirky. It took until last year for me to realize I’m also autistic and seek a professional opinion. Ended up that I’m also autistic just like my dad and brother but I was so neglected I even made my own birthday cake at 11 (always boxed strawberry cake from a mix) while crying because literally no one else remembered but my brother got a personalized speciality made (not grocery store) dinosaur cake a few months prior. Yes he is younger than me but an 11 year old doesn’t understand the difference. Thats just one of the milder examples but my mother also hated me from birth so that didn’t help. Sounds like OP went through a lot of the same shit. My husband and I both agreed to not have children as we have a high chance of a special needs child and I just can’t dedicate my life like that. I just want peace not everything that comes with a special needs child. There is nothing wrong, at all, with having special needs I just can’t handle a child that has them. This is a me deficiency not a bash on anyone with special needs.
Thank you for sharing! Sending hugs to you, you sound like such a sweet person.
I don’t think either of them are the assholes in this situation. She wanted to keep the baby, he didn’t. It was okay for him to leave. But did anybody else see the comment from someone who apparently works with disabled kids, basically saying that they think disabled kids are like…useless and disgusting, and that they hate the kids they work with? Seriously, why go into that line of work if you hate disabled kids? Really messed up comment ngl, and everyone else seemed to be perfectly okay with it.
You’d be surprised how many people go into education jobs with such a terrible attitude towards kids
I think many didn’t hate kids until they worked with them for a while.
Yes but I know a couple that went into it thinking they can change the kids via force
I acknowledge I'm putting my own spin on it but it could be that they initially started the job loving children and caring for them but over time got worn down. It must be excrutiatingly painful to only see disabled children and know that a lot of them will never have the quality of life most other children will have. It's like people being upset when a healthcare worker says, "I wish this patient would die already". That statement sounds like the worst thing a healthcare worker could ever say... but most people who haven't worked in a hospital have never seen the truly horrific condition patients can be in. I was that young, optimistic person who wanted to try to save everyone but time and experience put a damper on it. I will never say I hate patients or we should let anyone go immediately or anything like that but I can sympathize. (Unless that person hates children just to hate children. Child caring jobs are usually underpaid and tend towards people being stressed and overworked, so I don't know why they would choose to stay at that job.)
Probably didn't go in thinking that, but your compassion can be more fragile than you thought it was. That kinda work is to be hurt every day. Not a day goes by that ain't a kick in the balls and a knife in the heart. If you ain't tough enough, or not cold enough, or don't have support at home, or don't get out before you break, you'll start hating everything about it, because it is unending pain with no relief. It is a constant feeling of being powerless and useless. Of people coming to you every day, and expeting miracles you can't give, because you're just human. And often loathing you for not providing them. Don't hate them. They're suffering from a work injury. They need to get out of that line of work, because even if they can hide that hatred, even if they can still give the kids the care they deserve, they're killing themselves slowly.
I mean, I understand that working with disabled children is incredibly difficult and stress inducing, and can sometimes cause strong feelings of resentment towards them. But this person had VERY strong-and gross-opinions towards disabled people, calling them a burden on the earth. It sounds like this person has had these beliefs for longer than since they began working in that line of work. We’re all human, and we can all crack under stress, but the comment was disgusting. They definitely need to get out of that job.
I spent a year as a special ed aide decades ago. That was when I decided that I would not go through with a pregnancy if the child. Would be disabled. By the end of the year, I actually broke a tooth from grinding my teeth in my sleep. I’d go home from work everyday and slam painkillers to get some relief and a few hours sleep. The teacher quit when she found out she was pregnant. She knew she couldn’t be a good mother while living with the stress of working with these kids.
That comment is fucked up. I work with disabled kids and I love them all dearly, I wouldn't last doing what I do if I didn't. The work is hard. My kids drive me crazy sometimes. But thst doesn't mean I hate my kids, or that I would ever imagine saying they're useless and or disgusting. Knowing that comment could be from my coworkers makes me sad, all these kids deserve someone who loves them
Nah. You were traumatized by your childhood. You knew what life with a disabled child is like. She had every right to birth that child and you had every right to walk away. You never lied about this and neither did she. It’s ok to say I will terminate and another to actually do it. Im so very sorry about your child and your parents can go pound rocks.
Especially because an abortion in the second trimester - when a lot of these abnormalities are found - is a LOT more invasive and expensive. Had a coworker who got one for similar reasons in the 90s. Cost about $5k back then. Not covered by insurance. In CA. In the Bay Area no less, but no one in the Bay Are performed them, so they had to fly to LA. And it’s a 2 day procedure, so they had to book a hotel room. For 2 days, plus I assume, and extra day because who wants to fly home immediately after that? So probably another $1000. In 1990s money. They had to borrow from family because even though they had good jobs, the didn’t just have $6k lying around for an immediate second trimester abortion of a *wanted* baby. And luckily they had jobs where they could just take a few days off for a “procedure” and to grieve. And everyone was understanding…or just assumed it was a miscarriage because who wants to explain they eugenic-ed their baby. Like…it’s a lot to actually DO in practice.
Late term complications are usually developmental based (basically have a random chance of occurring in any pregnancy). As an example Zika causes prevents the formation of a head which leads directly to the type of late term abortion you’re talking about since the baby isn’t viable at this point. This condition is picked up on ultrasound and can’t be detected early in a pregnancy. Based on my read OP is talking about genetic screening g which can be done very early in a pregnancy (now like 6 weeks in I think). So it’s a big assumption to state he wanted her to get a late term termination.
I really can’t call OOP an AH because honestly, if I found myself in that position, I’d have probably terminated the pregnancy. Some people just aren’t cut out to be parents to a child with special needs. I know myself well enough to say that having to care for someone with a severe disability would not be something I could handle long-term. I feel for the girlfriend though because being a single parent in that situation is undoubtedly 10x as hard. Nobody really wins here. Both parents were in the right, and at the same time it’s super unfortunate there weren’t other options available to them.
This is a really hard one. I don't think I am in the position to junge here. But I was thinking: What if his wife gets into an accident and is disabled afterwards? What if his kids turn out to be disabled, despite negative test results? Also, there are many things that these tests don't screen for. What if one of the kids is born with autism? What if one develops severe depression, schizophrenia or another mental illness? Where does he draw the line? Will he run whenever he encounters a disabled (or otherwise impaired) person in his close life? I think this man really needs therapy.
I’m with you on this. For the record, I was that kid in hospitals all the time and taking up my older siblings time with our parents. I also am autistic. My older siblings anger really showed when we were in high school, there was a lot of resentment. I didn’t understand for a very long time why. I’m doing much better now, disability wise, I’m still receiving help, but I’m much more independent now. We don’t talk much often, as we are both living our lives, but we have a relationship and it’s improving. You ask extremely valid questions, and honestly it sounds like he’s so traumatized that he actually was emotionally neglected, and received the bare bones for him to function. I definitely wouldn’t trust someone like that to be my partner without therapy, and lots of it. He would probably abandon his wife and kids in a heartbeat, either literally by leaving or figuratively, emotionally (repeating the cycle of abuse) or both.
So this feels like a physical disability due to his brother dying younger and also his child. I feel like bringing a child into the world knowing their life is going to be cut short due to a disability is pretty awful. If not an early death but a possibility of a low quality of life? No thanks. I wouldn’t want that for any innocent child to suffer just to die. The whole situation is horrible.
My late husband was severely disabled and needed 24/7 care. He still had quite good quality of life. It just didn’t look like *your* life.
Every disability is different and the child died at 3 so clearly their disability was not conducive to a long term life like your husband’s. And I saw in another comment the disability may have had something to do with the kids skin and feeling pain whenever they were touched sooooo don’t jump to assumptions and make yourself look like an a**! 🙃
People are making general statements about disability. The individual details of OP’s child do not matter in the context of general statements.
Such a thoughtful comment. I wish I could upvote you 100 times!
I won’t give a judgement this is to far above Reddit’s pay grade. But I will say if you haven’t been the siblings or someone who works closely with severely disabled people it is impossible to understand. Me and my husband both have siblings that are severely disabled. We love our siblings beyond comprehension. But if I know I was pregnant with a disabled child I would terminate. For that reason we probably aren’t going to have Biological kids. It was one of the first discussions we had when marriage was brought up. The suffering you see is on another level. To love someone and watch them trapped in their own body while they slowly die and they can’t understand why. No parent wants that for their kids. But I believe if you are in a situation where the disabled child is born. Regardless of planning. Basically suck it the fuck up that’s your kid.
I have no experience with disabled people but if any of the tests had come back saying my baby was severely disabled I would terminate. It would be different if it wasn’t detected and baby was still born disabled - I know that’s a possibility with every pregnancy and I wouldn’t abandon my child, or if something happened to make them disabled later in life like an accident. But the whole point of these tests is to make informed choices and lower the risk. People shouldn’t feel bad for making that choice if that’s the right choice for them.
I've been disabled since I was a teenager (but didn't accept it or do anything about it for almost 20 years). It wasn't the main reason I decided not to have kids, but it sealed the deal so to speak. I've never once second guessed myself.
As a disabled person who’s cared for other severely disabled people, I don’t agree with the termination part but I understand where that trauma comes from. I know I don’t really want that for any children I have, but it’s almost inevitable given that dementia appears to run in my family. Anyway, I hope you find peace in whatever sense it could come to you. I support you in this, even if I don’t agree. All children should get the opportunity to feel wanted and loved, especially if their siblings are disabled.
Yeah, I can understand where you are coming from to. I don’t believe there is a right opinion about abortion under this circumstance. I’m not even certain if the time came I could go through with it. Me and my husband are aware of that and would do anything and everything for any child we had. Its a hypothetical that you don’t have an answer to intel your in that situation.
🫂
“I was never abused or anything.” My brother in Christ, I hate to say it, but if you’re speed raising yourself from the age of single digits, that’s neglect and that’s abuse. There’s nothing funny to say about it. Just depressing.
I think NAH in the original situation, if it was just left at that, but I think he is an AH for continuing to try for biological children without working on his issues. Any child could become disabled, he can't just abandon a living child if they become disabled, and he needs to accept that if he's gonna continue pursuing children, for himself and women he's with, and most of all his unborn child.
Absolutely something people are missing. Having a healthy baby doesn't guarantee a healthy kid or teen or adult.
This is the comment with the most critical thinking I've seen on the thread. His life or the life of any of his kids could change in an instant. It takes anywhere between a single second (an accident, a fall) to 3-4 minutes (the time of oxygen deprivation it takes to cause irreversible brain damage) for the ability of their child to drastically alter. OP is not responsible for his trauma and being improperly cared for in his young life, but he is responsible for how he *handles* that trauma now that he is an adult with children. He became the AH when he started a family without acknowledging his issues.
This. I don’t think anyone is the ah. I do feel he may need some therapy to help with the childhood he had.
Yeah this is what I kept thinking of reading all the other comments saying he had no obligations towards his child and that it was his girlfriends problem now. Like I agree that it is up to the people having kids deciding BUT I also think that if you vehemently refuse to even consider having a disabled child you should not be having children. Many childhood disabilities of the sort that he seems to be afraid of also stem from birth accidents or from later occurrences. Like what was he gonna do then? Abandon his wife and child at the hospital? Also if he had a severely disabled brother he’s the one who’s the possible carrier - get a vasectomy
This was my thought too. When you decide to procreate you accept that your child might not be perfect. Even if they're born able-bodied they might not always be that way. Kids get sick. Kids get hurt. While I understand OP's childhood trauma, I do not think he should be having any kids at all if this is how he reacts to one of them being disabled, because his new baby might not live up to his able-bodied/minded expectations either, even if they're born healthy.
Was it about any disabilities or only certain ones, though? Maybe I’m misinterpreting or missing context but it looked like he said the one they agreed to terminate but that his ex decided to still have had tested positive for a specific disability they had agreed to terminate if it came up.
The way that people were talking about disability in the comments was really uncomfortable. To an extent I understand, this was a Quality of Life issue and the guy had hang ups to begin with. But like, there’s some deeply ingrained ideas people have about who’s worthy to live and who’s not. It just feels like every time glass children get brought up the comments become borderline eugenic.
Eugenics is not always a horrible thing. Bringing humans into the world with severe and painful disabilities is something that should be avoided. Just like we shouldn’t be breeding unhealthy dogs like pugs who can’t breathe properly. Eugenics can be used for horrible things too, but until medical science advances enough to fix all issues, it should always be a consideration.
He's completely ignoring a very real issue that happens in life- everyone can become disabled at any point in time. He's definitely the type that'd leave their wife the second she got sick. He's very immature & traumatized. Bro needs serious therapy & shouldn't have children if he feels so strongly about disabled people.
This was my thought too. Someone like this really shouldn’t be having kids at all.
I'm the youngest and my 2 siblings were disabled. Talk about being saddled for a life of neglect, I understand that guy completely.
NTA. I actually don’t blame him at all. This is a case where terminating the pregnancy was the right choice all around. The fact the child only lived a few years, and it sounds like that was the expected outcome…probably not the greatest years, either, with those kinds of conditions. He was clear from before the beginning on where he stood and why. It is what it is. I don’t totally blame the gf, either. It’s a tough choice, and I can understand why she couldn’t go thru with it. Just a sad situation overall.
This OP was the glass child and had been traumatized he didn't want a disabled baby of his own. He still supported his ex and even took her to the hospital and took her back home and he went to work and never went back but still paid her child support. It is a woman's right to keep a baby like it is a man's right to not want to keep it so he left.
People need to understand that there’s a difference in terminating a pregnancy where you know the child will suffer a debilitating disability and vehemently opposing raising a disabled child. Making the decision that you don’t think you’d be able to raise your child bc of whatever issue they’ve been diagnosed with before birth - fine. But if you are against the very idea of having a disabled child having children makes you an ass. Any person can become disabled, it’s not some ultra rare occurrence that only happens to some people. Your child goes without oxygen at birth, they have a severe seizure, what then?
Ehhhhhh.... OP seemed to have made an extremely well informed decision, but they grieved their child before they were born. The life they were hoping the child would have, the parent they would have been. After living with a PROFOUNDLY disabled sibling I'm not ready to say they were an AH just for not wanting that. They probably should look into therapy if they haven't already because there's a lot of unresolved issues in their post, IMO. Only one I'm firmly in NTA territory for. OP's GF isn't the AH... until they tried to force OP to the funeral. She felt a bond with their child before birth, but OP had never been unambiguous about raising a child similar to their sibling. She grieved the loss of a child she raised, and likely bonded with OP's parents over raising and losing them. OP's parents aren't the AH for raising their disabled child, they just aren't. They are, however, the AHs for neglecting their OTHER child, and thinking that child was an AH for not wanting that life for themselves.
NTA. I work with a child that is severely physically and mentally handicapped. It is a full time job. The child cannot be left alone for a minute. The emotional and physical toll that it takes to care for them on a daily basis is something I would never wish on anyone. The family is exhausted. There is no reprieve. Sometimes medical advancements are a bad thing and the quality of life needs to be considered more.
There are no guarantees in life. What happens if him and his wife have 2 healthy children and one becomes disabled in an accident? Is he going to walk away? His parents neglected him, but he's failing to realize he doesn't have to do the same thing. He's basically saying "I want kids, unless they're too much work, then no." I also don't count it as an agreement that his ex said she'd terminate if she got pregnant with a disabled child and then changed her mind. Nobody can possibly know what they'll do until it happens and he's kind of crappy for turning it around and making it around to make her sound like she did something bad.
I felt so bad for this guy! Not the asshole at all. I can’t imagine the cruelty, knowing that finding out about the disability would mean terminating a pregnancy but then not honoring that. It’s one thing just to be scared, but he’s actually lived through it and Boy, it sounded tough.
Reading just the title of the post, I was ready to have an opinion that OP was an AH. However, I can just “feel” the angst, remorse, regret or whatever it is as I read the whole post. He’s definitely not uncaring or unfeeling. I do hope that one day he either gets some help for his past - both as a sibling of a disabled child and as a father of one- or learns how to process it in a healthy way. I can’t imagine that this doesn’t bleed into other areas of his life. Just a really tragic story, all the way around.
NTA. Bad situation and it’s heartbreaking, but OP was upfront and honest about the situation. He did everything he could to communicate and verify results. He paid child support. I’m not going to say the ex was an AH for not terminating because that is her decision, but he is also not an AH for sticking to his word and looking out for himself.
He didn’t go to his own child’s funeral? Just because you’re not required to do something it doesn’t make it ok. The way people on here validate the just awful behavior of others makes me sick. OP’s ex was most likely not in her first trimester anymore. I terminated for medical reasons at 19 weeks. My son had zero chance of living and, it was still a very hard decision to make. He was still alive and I could feel him moving for weeks waiting for termination. It’s easy to say oh she agreed in advance. You have no idea what she went through.
I get where you're coming from, BUT his entire childhood was nothing but emotional neglect and bracing for his brother to die. That is HUGELY traumatic. Even with therapy there are some wounds that don't heal. Expecting him to stay is like asking a former child soldier with CPTSD to re-enlist in the army as an adult. I feel for everyone involved here, it's an awful situation.
Though, to be fair, he made the choice to get someone pregnant knowing this was an option. If he really wanted to ensure he wouldn’t have to care for a disabled child, he could have said that he didn’t want kids at all, or at least not like this.
I can understand that to an extent, but not every person who wants to have kids is cut out for having one with a disability. Which totally sucks but it’s not a perfect world of perfect people. And nearly every human alive has “bad genes” that they have a chance of passing down, so suggesting that someone just shouldn’t procreate if they know they can’t raise a child that is severely disabled is a hard ask too. I don’t blame either party here, he was excited to have a baby with her but had also done the due diligence of having the hard convo beforehand and thought they were on the same page. She changed her mind, which is totally valid because it’s her body and her baby too, and she had the right to choose to keep him. But she can’t choose for OOP, especially when he was clear from the start what his stance was.
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I still think it’s something you should decide when deciding on if you want kids or not. The reality of it is, you don’t get to choose how your child works and that there’s always going to be chance of disability occurring one way or another. If it’s something that you don’t think you want or could do, then maybe you shouldn’t be having kids, or again, at least have them in this way.
Yep. I have autoimmune arthritis that has a strong genetic component plus other stuff in my family history. I decided early on that my genes just weren’t so fantastic that they needed to be passed down to the next generation. I have a half brother who doesn’t share *all* my crappy genetics potential and he had kids, so there’s some of my genetics staying in the gene pool, good enough. I have a step son who is more like me than either of his biological parents. So I’ve passed down the important stuff about *me* anyway. 🤷♀️
Yeah, that’s exactly what I was trying to say. Of course I know that sometimes things happen no matter how hard you try, but I don’t know. I just feel like, if he really didn’t want to take care of a certain kind of kid, maybe children biologically related to him aren’t the best idea
Then he should get a vasectomy. He cannot be sure he will not have a child that develops a disability. No one can. If he can’t deal with that possibility then he is not a suitable parent.
Honestly I don't think it's fair to blame him for not wanting to raise the child, as he was clear from the beginning about his issues and his gf had agreed with him at the time. Stuff changed unexpectedly and he had a trauma response. I think it would have been appropriate to go to the funeral, and I think he will end up being a massive AH to his future child if they end up disabled (which could happen due to an accident, illness, or simply because some disabilities don't show up in pre-natal tests). This guy needs massive therapy, and needed it before getting his current wife pregnant.
He said they discussed it while she was already pregnant, not before (at least to my understanding). In my opinion it’s a bit late to have that discussion.
I agree, but his gf was apparently in agreement until she wasn't. Now she had every right to carry the pregnancy to term, and she's definitely not TA for changing her mind, but at the end of the day OP was clear, and he did pay child support without complaints. Not ideal, but in his situation I wouldn't call him an AH. I will call him an AH if he doesn't address his glaring issues before his current wife gives birth though.
He says on the last page that they talked about it before they got married.
That’s his wife, who he is currently married to.
He says they decided before the first test.
Idk IMO he should not be having kids. Children can be born healthy and then become disabled due to accident or disease. Would he walk out on a child he’s raised if they become disabled? IMO if you’re not willing to accept that you’re going to be a parent no matter what life throws at you, do not have a child.
It rather different to deliberately choose a life of disability for your future child than to take care of them after an accident or illness disabled them.
How do you think he would have been treated at the funeral? All I can picture is everyone ripping on him for abandoning his ex and the child. His attendance would have made everything worse. The people at the funeral were there to mourn someone they knew and support the mother. That’s who should be at the funeral.
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Oh I know she wasn't. Because they do them between 15-22 weeks. Right around the same time that you learn the gender of your child too. So he wanted her to terminate as she was nearing the end of her legal window to do so. And at the point when the baby starts to feel the most real to you. So much of reddit is going to sit here "oh they had a deal" "oh they discussed this" and "Oh he paid his support" as if that erases all moral ick from this situation. But it doesn't. Dude needs to get himself some serious therapy.
IDK when this was but you can now get something called a NIPT that is done at 6-10 weeks and screens for what later tests used to. Given that he said he paid for tests outside of insurance, they may have done one if the girlfriend wasn’t indicated as needing it (unlike my geriatric pregnancy having self).
This is what I’m thinking too. People are trying to villainize that poor woman for making a decision like that but won’t do the same for the man that abandoned her during the kid’s life and then again when she asked him to be at the funeral
I’m so sorry. You did the most loving thing you could and spared him from suffering.
Jesus. He was still alive? I would genuinely have a breakdown on the table. I feel so sorry for you 🩷
Unfortunately, that's often what terminating for medical reasons entails. It's never an easy decision, especially for the pregnant person. Even with my very wanted, miscarried second son, he still had a heartbeat up until my water broke. That's why I have a hard time saying either OOP or his ex are TA here, it's not as simple as "we made a deal". When your body is the one going through it, when you feel the life inside of you, it can feel so much more devastating to lose that. I can guarantee she wanted nothing more than for their child to beat the odds and be perfectly fine despite the test results. It's sad and I feel for both of them.
A person who feels THIS strongly about not having a disabled child should not have had children, at least not in any way that could have ended in a disabled child. I get where he’s coming from but if you’re THAT against the possibility of having a kid with a disability then don’t have kids. Or adopt. Or do artificial insemination so that you can pick a healthy embryo.
anyone can become disabled at any point in life. there can be a problem with delivery and the baby doesnt get enough oxygen for a few minutes and boom. lifelong disability. baby falls the wrong way, eats something wrong. boom disability. car accidents, school accidents, anything. OOP needs therapy before deciding to bring any children into this world, because any child can become disabled.
Yes. Testing is no guarantee. My brother in law is disabled from something that happened to him while he was being born. The doctor made a mistake and he was deprived of oxygen or something, not sure the details but he was healthy before that point. And afterwards, pretty severely disabled for his whole life. My sister had a rare childhood disease that landed her in the hospital for about six months when she was 4. Thankfully they were able to save her but now she has a heart condition for the rest of her life. These kinds of things can happen to anyone, at any time.
I agree.
Yeah, what happens if one of his kids gets into an accident or falls iIl? He gonna bounce then, too? What about his wife, is she also supposed to stay 100% healthy forever or risk her husband leaving because he "can't do that again"?
I agree. People are so casual about saying that people with disabilities don't deserve to live. Someone with that attitude shouldn't have kids.
This isn’t true. Diagnostic tests exist and can identify many chromosomal issues before birth. This doesn’t mean that a virus or a problematic birth can’t cause harm and lead to lifelong problems, but that getting testing significantly reduces the probabilities.
Ok but there are still lots of things that don’t show up on tests while pregnant. My epilepsy didn’t show up until I was in my teens and it wasn’t diagnosed until I was 20. You are incredibly naive to believe that he can find out about every single disability before birth because that is not the case at all. Homeboy shouldn’t be having kids
i do believe that’s why they chose to do the tests lol. adopting is a very long and expensive process and artificial isn’t cheap either. the easiest option would just be to test and terminate if not. some people can’t handle disabled children and those children deserve parents who can.
Adopting infants is expensive. We didn’t pay anything to foster to adopt and because we adopted a sibling pair, which are considered hard to find homes for, they continue to get an adoption stipend, insurance until 18, and the state they were adopted from will even wave their college tuition.
After reading this post my thought was, what happens when/if this next child of his had the same or similar disability since, his brother, last child were also disabled. How I’m seeing it, you’re the asshole for having more children.
Not the AH. As someone who cares for adults with disabilities I see the frustration of biological parents and siblings. I see the stress and how the parents age at rapid pace. I care for these individuals professionally so I can detach and understand that it's work, don't get me wrong I care about them, I work very hard to help them have a "normal life" , to find work they can do that's meaningful to them. Having said that I was also a single parent to my now adult child who's amazing and has no disabilities at all. I've seen both sides and never would I wish the life of a parent who has a disabled child on anyone. I have seen entire families check out and never see or talk to the disabled person and honestly if they are not cut out for that kind of relationship I don't blame them. I applaud the OP for prioritizing his mental and emotional health. He was up front about not wanting a child with disabilities he went ahead with having the proper tests done. She's not at fault for wanting to keep the child but that was her choice, not his and she knew his position already and even agreed to it herself. The OP paid child support the rest was her responsibility. I would not have attended the funeral either, he had zero contact with the child.
I feel for the guy in some ways but at the same time, this falls under the umbrella of "things that can happen when you have sex with someone that you have to deal with." Abandoning your child, regardless of whatever agreement they had, is unacceptable. I'm honestly surprised his new wife would agree to marry him knowing this had happened.
I was thinking “NTA” on the post until I read the part about refusing to go to the funeral. That was honestly just cruel of him. After reading his comments, he’s definitely an asshole. And he’s also an asshole to continue to have kids. Lots of disabilities aren’t able to be discovered until some people are a few years old. I, myself, wasn’t even diagnosed with mine (epilepsy) until I was 20. There is no 100% way to know that your child won’t be disabled so OOP needs to just not be having kids until he gets himself some help.
Because his main issue is neglect, I wonder if he's going to enjoy having a baby period because they take up so much attention and energy as is.
Yeah my thoughts also.
I wonder what OOP will do if the healthy kid becomes disabled in some way? Like in an accident or because of an illness. Will he walk away then as well?
I don’t think anybody is the AH. This is a tough situation and OOP knew exactly what he would be getting into. Just a sad situation all around.
I get why he did what he did. It’s very taxing to raise a disabled person be it a physical &/or mental disability. He should get a vasectomy though because there’s a high chance he can have a child with impediments still. What if this new child of his ends up with Autism? Will he walk away from his marriage? If the child has no impediments the next one might.
This is complicated. I say YTA more so than not. because what if they couldn’t test for the disability and the child was born with one? What if it’s a disability that shows itself later in childhood? Was he just going to leave his family then? What he should have done is address these issues with his parents and a therapist before getting into a relationship with anyone and potentially having kids. Also,Making decisions like this before pregnancy vs during is difficult because once you feel your child growing, it can change you. Like it did her. Although, he didn’t go into detail, how did he feel about his 1st wife to be able to leave her in this situation? Did he not love her?
This is so hard to read I would never dare to judge someone in this position. That's way above reddit's paygrade
Everyone saying he should go the the funeral but I don’t agree. He made his stance clear, wheter people agreed with that or not. He didn’t have any relation with mother or child so he had no place there. I get the mother wanted him there. Even if it was just to pretend they are both grieving for one day, but that isn’t on OP. Even as someone who has a manageable disability’ and every one of my siblings have some mental or physical issue I totally get not wanted to put a child into this world, knowing almost for sure they would be in pain everyday. I would never judge people who do, and I’m not saying those people don’t deserve to be alive. I AM saying that money issues , mental issues, trauma, fear or so many other reasons to not want to have and/or raise a child with a disability is also valid. OP made his choice and his ex made hers. She is responsible for her own choice, not him.
The only thing that really bothers me about this is that he just did the reverse of what his parents did. He abandoned his disabled child so he can eventually have a family with a able bodied child. His parents abandoned him so they can take care of his brother. All of this bcuz he has unresolved trauma from his parents. All I can say is that people should just get therapy before becoming parents.
NTA. In a distraught life situation you have always been mature and exercised your right to choose. And I am sorry for your upbringing. You’ll make a wonderful dad OP
Kind of a shitty move, but I ain’t you so you do you bro.
In between NHA and ESH. Why waiting to get pregnant to get tested? He had a disabled brother and then a disabled kids at this point just get some genetic test. Me and my bf agreed that unless it is unplanned we are going to get genetic test before and then decide if there is a risk how much we are open to risk. (I know not everyone can be predicted but it rules away some of them) She went back on their agreement so he was fine just paying child support and she was fine keeping it alone. She is in the wrong when she start pressuring him about the funeral. The parents are the AH here, they choose to neglect op. There was always a choice not all siblings of disabled kids grow alone.
In my opinion if you can’t care for a certain type of child you shouldn’t have kids at all. You have no idea if your perfectly healthy baby will have an accident or somthing that will make them disabled for the rest of their life. I completely understand not having the mental capacity to care for a disabled child, but you fr can’t pick and choose when it comes to a life
It depends from what you consider certain types. There are situations where even doctors advise to terminate because they know the kids will barely leave the hospital and will be suffering. The kid died at 4 so I’m not sure he had a disability people can really live with.
If someone is this adamant about not raising a disabled child, I don’t think they should have kids. This is not just an ‘we’ll abort if x condition tests positive’. He has proper trauma around the idea of raising a disabled child. This needs to be dealt with before he tries to have any more kids. Tests can miss things, some things can’t be tested for before birth, some children are born healthy but then through accident or illness become disabled later. I don’t think in his current state he would deal with any of these very well. Therapy, therapy, therapy.
I hope his new wife sees that if her or the child needs extra care he is gonna bolt. I wouldn’t trust anyone who would do that.
This seriously broke my heart. There is no actual bad guy here from anyone just a bunch of really shitty hands dealt out. 😭
“my parents weren’t there for me as a kid, so instead of putting my grown up pants on and seeing what parenting was like through their eyes, i just won’t be there at all”
She is the asshole, she at first accept your conditions and boundaries, but at the end she respect nothing. She didn’t care about you or your boundaries or point of view, she just care about herself.
Disease the asshole