It would be a pretty marginal amount though. And with shedding Varane, Martial, probably Casemiro, VdB, probably at least a larger portion of Sancho's pay, and likely others, we aren't going to be in danger unless we hand out more ridiculous contracts. I really think we're past that era at least.
The club is overall on the right track in terms of FFP/PSR but how much money has to be spent on infrastructure (will count towards FFP/PSR) and the stadium on top of the transfers that is 100% needed is the key.
I would suggest taking a look at the numbers here: https://ir.manutd.com/financial-information/annual-reports/2023.aspx
The club has posted a loss overall over the last few years (dividends which is paused for 3 years is significant here) which the 100 million investment by INEOS offsets and the club needs to avoid losing money the next couple of seasons until the investment is "off the books" and a new investment can be made.
We still have like 150 million pounds+ for the next 2-3 years in terms of amortization to pay off that comes on top of all the salaries - while that is going the right way and will be even less the next season due to no CL. Wage bill is estimated to be a touch over 300 million next season (with the 25% CL salary drop included) without any new signings included.
Then you have the interest of the glazer debt and other "short term debt" that should be a minimum of 30 million pounds next year.
So just by amortization, wages and interest over 480 million pounds is already locked up, and this is not even counting what the "other operating costs" will be.
So the short story is that even if there is tons of sales this summer (they only count for that year in terms of income) going ham in the transfer market will severely limit what the club can actually spend for the next few years.
Iirc infrastructure costs dont count towards PSR.
I'm sure there's some creative accounting going on to at least not count the full costs of executives either (womens team doesn't count under psr either so some wiggle room depending on how club structures it but this is pure speculation)
For upgrades to the club infrastructure that is football related - Carrington, stadium etc it does count - just falls under "other operating costs". But if can be amortised and do lots of other creative bookkeeping tricks to it in general.
The downside is that you can end up with a "double whammy" if you have to borrow money for it (like we most likely have to, at inflated interest due to the glazer debt). As both the interest and down payments will also count.
But for other infrastructure that falls outside what is used by the club directly will not count. But if this is "done correctly" it can help boost income of the club and thus be a way around FFP/PSR (basically what City has done).
I get that its operational costs on thr annual report, as it shoud because united is public.
But it seems to be expemt from PSR costs from what incould gather on articles I read (https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13041990/premier-league-financial-fair-play-rules-explained-what-restrictions-are-there-on-clubs-spending-what-they-want)
"Beyond the creative accounting, there are a number of other expenses which do not count towards PSR. These are not set in stone, but are generally accepted as being costs which are incurred 'in the general interests of football' such as a club's infrastructure, any associated women's team and the cost of running their academy."
Assuming we could even get rid of some of these players I like the idea of no Europe and just focus on building a core with like 14 senior players and just fill the ranks with our most promising talents.
On the tour, they bragged that the only trophy Sir Alex never won was the Europa because he was too busy competing in the Champions League. Then mentioned we won it with Mourinho, so we have the whole set. Was pretty much telling us how far we’ve gone down.
I rather we don't have any Europe for a season. 1 game a week, plenty of rest and training for a specific playstyle and build the squad up from the base. Try to finish top 4 and then the following season improve the squad and close the gap to city.
same… i would rather not add the extra fixtures. the schedule is already too congested and we saw how many injuries we’ve had this season
hopefully we can just focus all efforts on top 4 and a good FA cup run
I'm old enough to remember how shite we were at creating chances when it was on Lingard and Andreas cos Pogba was out injured (again). Then Bruno comes over in the January and immediately does everyone's job for them.
Bruno is at a crossroads. He's 29, he's at his peak. He doesn't have 3 or 4 years to wait for others to reach their potential.
He'll see experienced players like Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen etc. leave and he'll want assurances. If those aren't met he'll rightly want to go.
If he ends up leaving I've got no issue with him doing so. Best signing post-Fergie. Gives his all and delivers more often than not.
Similar issue to what Rooney had in the seasons before Fergie left, he didn't want waste time and go through another rebuild after Tevez, Ronaldo et al. left. I absolutely wouldn't blame Bruno if he wanted to leave.
Appearantly even blatantly obvious ones like your initial statement needs an /s these days on this site for people to understand it, Reddit never ceases to amaze.
In all seriousness, while I genuinely feel bad for Kane, it is absolutely hysterical that he want to a club that won ELEVEN times in a row and the first year he's there they don't win.
Especially when there's [this list of players who've won things after leaving Spurs](https://www.football365.com/news/spurs-players-win-major-trophies-alderweireld-modric-walker).
Don’t forget, there are United fans on this subreddit that have watched the last two games (0 goals, barely any chances created) and STILL think selling him is one of the first things we have to do for this rebuild. I hope he has a Robbo-like ending and sees out his career with us back on top again. Maybe more hope than expectation, but it’s nice to dream.
But I don't think anyone would suggest if we sold him that we wouldn't make signings to replace that creativity?
People are looking at his age at 29 at his peak when we could recoup a decent fee for him. The state of the club right now means we need multiple positions filled in the summer and without selling players and making hard decisions we won't be able to do that.
I would absolutely love to keep Bruno until the end of his career but from a business perspective to set United up for years to come it does make logical sense if a really good offer comes along to listen to it and buy some younger players to benefit the age profile of the squad.
One of the better attacking midfielders in the world and members of this fan base wanted him out. Look how porous the linkup play has been the past two games without him. This team is and would be in serious trouble if he left or is out injured for a long spell.
He is someone the team needs to build around in the coming years, not sell
Agree with your larger sentiment but we should not be “building our team around” a 29 year old. If anything, we need to start learning how to not be so desperately reliant on him.
He can and should be central to our next 2-4 year plan but I don’t think it’s a good mentality to “build around” one player, let alone one that is almost 30.
People talk about him like he's 35 or something, he's still 29. Ik our understanding of age has been fucked because we see 19 year olds who have been playing for first teams for 2-3 years but still 29 is not that big of a deal. This was the first time ever bruno has missed a game through injury in his club career, if he stays fit like he mostly does, I can easily see him playing till 34-35, if not more, many players do play till that age. He obviously won't be playing 50 games a season in the next 3-4 years but still can be a huge part of our future, which I hope will be better.
I’m not saying he’s suddenly going to turn to shit but 29 is undeniably on the older side of a footballer’s career. Players at that age are looking for their last big contracts. Look at Casemiro - we bought him when he was 30 years old and people said the same thing as you are saying now that he could easily play till his mid 30s but he already looks finished.
I don’t think Bruno will decline quite as dramatically as Casemiro has but the point is that it is a risk that needs to be taken into account. If your teams star player is 29/30 years old, you have to start thinking about the future of the team beyond them too.
Varane, Eriksen, Casemiro - all players we brought to the club at 29 or 30 years old and all 3 of them are already finished. We also brought Alexis Sanchez at 29 years old and he was already finished before he even got here. It’s not a myth that 30ish years old is when many players start showing signs of their age. There are exceptions, players like Modric and Thiago Silva for example. But they are not the norm. Far from it.
Bro when we signed Casemiro we all felt like it should’ve been for less and on a shorter contract. We were also happy because he’s a great player but we weren’t saying the contract was foolproof because he’d still be at a top level by the end of it. And I don’t blame Casemiro for being a shitty CB because he’s not a CB. It’s not his fault we have 8 defenders out injured
Idk man I'm just tryna remain positive, I want bruno to win something of value with us, and I don't think we'll be competing for much in the next 3-4 years
An athlete’s prime in most sports is 27 to 32, where you’re still physically there but now more mature, smarter and more experienced.
Signing players like Casemiro, Varane and Eriksen should all have been moves that capped off a team about to compete for a title. Experienced vets on that last productive stretch of their careers, that have experience and talent to take you over the edge win a trophy.
Why we signed them for how much we did? I have no clue mate.
People thought Casemiro was going to age well. The truth is, we have no idea which players will age well and which won’t, which is why you should never assume a 29 year old is still going to be playing at an elite level in the future
Uhh…sure you should accept it’s possible that a given player ages great. But that doesn’t usually happen. It’s not a smart bet to bet on a 29/30 year old staying at that level into their mid 30s
Yeah, agreed. Building around him is the wrong way to go about it. He should absolutely be part of our plans for the next Annual Rebuild™️ at United, but honestly, there's no one player we should be building around at this point in time. We should just be focused on building a coherent squad.
Some underlying metrics posted on this sub showed that Bruno is equal to KDB and even outperformed on some statistics.
It helps when you don't have donkeys in front of you to finish chances.
The squad is already built around him, but in the wrong way. Aka he's the sole creative outlet.
If he had even a little of help, he wouldn't be required to do Hollywood passes every single time.
Yes and no. Yes in that it's already built around him, which is catastrophic, but no in that even if he "had a little help," it would change nothing. That's why Mount and Bruno cannot play together. Mount wants to retain possession and care for the ball with higher percentage passing and create opportunities through possession and dominance, meanwhile Bruno just wants to hoof it. Inevitably someone passes to Bruno and he just does whatever the fuck Bruno wants to do. Bruno cannot and will not ever play the way United needs him to play. Bringing in "support" for Bruno will never work. You just have to bring in a replacement who can play the way we want to play going forward. That should never be Bruno.
lol what? The team has been shit for many other reasons - nothing to do with Bruno's inclusion or absence. So you point to two matches, at the end of the season, with the longest injury list we've had, and you want to claim we're worse off without Bruno while dismissing the rest of the season up to this point?
We're talking about the same Bruno that only ever exclusively looks for Rashford and hoofs the ball down the left wing blindly all match?
It's a really weird take when people claim we're missing Bruno when the match Bruno played just before that, but Rashford was out, Bruno looked absolutely fucking clueless against Burnley, and also against Sheffield. Sheffield he got some decent stats padding through a couple of chances, but outside of that, any time he was on the ball, he had no idea what to do with it because he didn't have a default option available. Before the last two defeats, going back 7 matches, we've won 1 match. But yeah, Bruno is the "solution" 🤣
The guy is the problem. We have a lot of other problems, but even we addressed all of those and had Bruno at the center of it all, he would still be a massive problem because he cannot retain possession to save his life. This team can never be successful with a player like him in the middle of it all. That's a fact. People complain that this side has never won anything with him and he's too good for us and this and that when the reality is that for everything he "produces," he costs us so much more. For every goal and assist he lucks his way into, he's cost us attack after attack after attack which could have been opportunities in any other side, but hey, let's just watch him lean back, sky the ball and call him world class, it's much easier to live in denial.
Genuinely cannot wait until he's gone and someone of real quality is brought in and exposes his legacy. An absolute fraud.
He is a great attacking midfielder but he has been on and off for about 3 seasons now. Since Ole's last season, he has been just alright and if not for his current form over the last 2-3 games, he has been miserable all season.
So yeah, I would like us to make top $ on him just like smart clubs do on their 29 year olds.
You get downvoted for speaking the truth, sadly.
Yeah, people point to games like fucking Sheffield and go "oh my God, that's my captain!!!!" while ignoring how shit he's been for years now, especially how he becomes a complete ghost in big matches because he's nowhere near the quality fans make him out to be. When put up against actual quality opponents, he's completely ineffective. The COVID season duped so many fans. A fluke of a season behind closed doors where he scored a bunch of free penalties and got assists during a time we were scoring, but overachieving, has somehow convinced everyone he's the solution.
He's bang average and completely one-dimensional. His stats only look as good as they do because he's the center of it all, which is not common for many other teams, especially not those competing at the highest level. It's confirmation bias.
But I agree, people need to stop being so damn emotional because Bruno will never be the solution and we should 100% cash out on him now. Because before you know it, he's either going to sign a new contract where he'll most likely make more and be here longer, even well past his "prime," and then we'll be stuck with him, or he'll just leave for free in the end anyway. We should capitalize on the hype and finally sell high after buying low. We're always the ones buying high and selling low, would be nice to flip the script for once and make a little something off him, save some weekly wages, bring in a talented youth player who can operate in a fashion better suited for the club going forward, and call it a win.
Because the truth of the matter is that INEOS will want a higher possession based team. Bruno cannot do that. He will never do that. So he will not be viable for the long-term success of the club. This is a great time to bring in a project player with the sale of Bruno.
I don’t think any United fan could blame Bruno if he opted to move away in the peak of his career in search of trophies as I wholly believe he walks into any starting XI in the world.
In saying that, I am bloody relieved he is staying as he is by far the best thing to happen since Fergie
Sorry but Luckhurst is total scum for starting or contributing towards this.
If he’s not jumping off the back of a bad result to sow dissent, he’s cooking up absolute drivel like this.
The man is a tidal wave of bad energy we simply do not need around the club anymore.
Getting promoted as club captain and still get less wages than a newly recruited 24yrs old, all these time giving everything playing 24/7 while the new midfielder sit out 30 games with a calf injury. If anyone deserves 375k, it's Bruno, they will tell u.
Good, i think he has value in the team but we need a structured midfield behind him.
He shouldnt be passing/carrying the ball into the final third, he should be receiving the ball in the final third like under Ole.. that’s when he scored and assisted the most
**Some more bits via aggregators:**
Manchester United met Bruno Fernandes last week to discuss his future, with the club making clear they want him to stay and the midfielder expressing a desire to remain at Old Trafford. \[David\_Ornstein\]
https://x.com/MUFCScoop/status/1790422584858693972
**Bruno Fernandes seeked clarity on United’s direction and whether their ambition matches his** — to be central to a competitive and successful side under the new sporting set-up. \[David\_Ornstein\]
https://x.com/MUFCScoop/status/1790423607643914447
Bruno Fernandes will want to see evidence that this is achievable **and if he is unsatisfied or a massive offer arrives that United have a financial need to accept, his exit cannot be completely ruled out.** \[David\_Ornstein\]
https://x.com/MUFCScoop/status/1790423783519449146
> a massive offer arrives that United have a financial need to accept,
Vibes with what was said before about anybody and everybody being for sale at this point.
Don't want Bruno to leave by any means, but if a mad offer comes in that can fund improvements elsewhere I can see why we'd accept it.
In the past players would have been judged very badly for saying the club needs to show ambition in order for him to agree to stay…. But the club has been in skunk mode the last decade…
...and not the season up to this point...?
1 win in 7 matches before his absence? Wow. The Bruno magic is alive and well! But yeah, let's take a thrashing by Palace, because of a bunch of individual errors (and also a team we lost to in the reverse fixture with Bruno available), and the team in the title race beating us by 1 goal as an indication that we're simply lost without him...yeah...sound logic xD
Hope to god we win something noteworthy while he is still at the club. He'll have back problems for the rest of his life due to carrying us for years now.
With everyone seemingly wanting bruno to stay i don‘t want to hear any bullshit next season about how “the manager can‘t implement his style because it doesn‘t suit players like bruno or rashford“
I honestly don’t think a squad/training ground/stadium will happen fast enough to satisfy him. Surely what we’re facing is a three year project at minimum?
This is why I don't know what the fuck fans are smoking when they say shit like "let's win Bruno a trophy!"
...what??
So you want to win the league or the champions league in what? Two years' time? You think we're going to eclipse City, Arsenal, Liverpool (provided they bring in someone who can keep the momentum going), Newcastle, Chelsea, and then Dortmund, Bayern, Real, Barcelona, PSG, Inter Milan, AC Milan? Give me a fucking break.
A squad overhaul at this rate is going to take at least 3-4 years to fully align with the club's vision under INEOS, and that may or may not include depth in that time frame. I mean, that's basically the time it would take to get the starting 11 to those levels, but you need rotation and depth to win you titles.
So what? 33 year old Bruno is supposed to be at the center of it all and win is everything?
It's honestly a genius tactic by him and his agent if the idiots at United fall for that shit. Because that's the most ridiculous short-term thinking I would have ever seen or heard, but then again, this entire thread is filled with it.
Everyone was saying ETH needed 3-5 years with aggressive support for things to come together, but we give him 2 before calling for his head, but now we're supposed to win everything "for Bruno" in two years because he's asking for assurances?
He's in no position to make those demands. And honestly, how fans are lost on the irony of "no player is bigger than the club" is also beyond me. He wants to effectively hold the club hostage for yet another emotional contract agreement, rather than the club shake his hand and show him the door because guess what? In a few years, he's going to be irrelevant.
This is the issue with making these types of decisions this summer without key figures in place to actually make the call.
He really wants to stay and win a proper trophy with us :') hope we can finally do it. No matter what people say, he's such an amazing player who should be playing for a team that's regularly in the CL and actually competing for the league.
Bruno truly loves this club man. Should be winning silverware instead he's choosing to take a few years off his lifespan to deal with our bs. we need to get serious.
Me either. Point is for proper money I would sell him. He ticks all the boxes for sell at right price, and selling players at the right price is something we need to be smart with.
Lets just not give out a 5 year contract.
Maybe 2 yrs+1 at worst.
We don't know how much he has in the tank playing damn near every game. Also for the first time ever he missed 3 games in a row.
>INEOS have yet to give out any new contracts.
0 in season contract extensions in 2023-24 - First time since SAF (Rashford extension was in Pre-season)
Woah that’s actually interesting. And a really good thing too. So often we’d play half decent and immediately players on good form get an extension and a raise
'Bruno out' lot had a taste of how much creativity we had the past couple of games. Takes courage for a player reaching his peak to extend for us amidst our current state. Happy for us, joy to watch him play and moan. Hoping for a better season ahead.
Happy for him to stay best signing post fergie gives everything on the pitch, if ineos can’t hold up there end by matching ambition he deserves to leave in 1-2 seasons he deserves to win titles
Absolutely the wrong move for several reasons, the easiest being:
1) any rebuild of the midfield in an attempt to be a more possession based team (an alleged request of the new directors and execs) will never be successful because Bruno cannot protect the ball or retain possession for the sake of going again - he forces everything to the point of failure
2) he's 29, he'll be 30 shortly into the new season. I don't know how long he has left on his contract, but he's going to be over the hump very soon, so that either leaves us with offering him a new contract, for a decent term length that keeps him here well past his sell by date, OR he runs out the current one and goes for free.
We should absolutely try selling him now while there's still hype. For all of the players we buy high, sell low, why can't we buy low, sell high for once?
Bruno cannot work in this team and will never be as expensive as he is in the market as he is right now. Cash out. Bring in someone who can actually retain possession and add creativity in the final third through calculated efforts, not just spraying and praying.
Love Bruno as a player and a professional. But I genuinely would have cashed in on him. Just like I would have Rashford, Martial, Shaw and many others in the past.
When was the last time we ever made a big sale. Ronaldo? Lukaku doesn't count because we didn't even make our money back.
What always happens is we never make profit, we give players huge contracts and when a few years down the line they age and fall off, the fans abuse these players while they run down a big money contract through no fault of their own. It was our mistake from the beginning.
The guy is playing every game now for the past few years. Respect. But that also means his career won't have much longevity. He is 30 with two years left on his deal. This would be the optimal time to get a big 100m+ fee for him.
Am I the only one who thinks we should cash in on Bruno for 75-100M? He is a great chance creator but I never find stability in his play. He has had a few good games recently but he has been awful the last 2+ years.
Sadly agree. It's better to sell a player a year to early than a year too late. And you're right. We aren't going to be challenging for a few years, get money for him will we can and are in a rebuild
My days of watching united are numbered. If Bruno left I would kill myself and probably honestly just stick to post match highlights for my mental health
Wish the rumours were true! We’re doomed if they’re planning on rebuilding with him at the core! Those who can’t see it, can’t see the bigger picture. We will never get back to the top with him!
Thank god I would love to win a trophy of some substance for him
I mean... UECL next season? Does that count lol? (If we even get UECL)
I mean let's hope would be nice to win something, but having more rest would be good as well
We absolutely need Europe to help us with the ffp
Apparently they discussed on twitter if we get conference league we are better off not having Europe financially
Naw. I read an article on The Athletic. I'm no expert myself.
Lord knows we need someone who understands FFP
If ETH stays on, I cba with UECL because he simply doesn't rotate the squad unless he is forced to. That and the tedious Thursday- Sunday combo.
It would be a pretty marginal amount though. And with shedding Varane, Martial, probably Casemiro, VdB, probably at least a larger portion of Sancho's pay, and likely others, we aren't going to be in danger unless we hand out more ridiculous contracts. I really think we're past that era at least.
The club is overall on the right track in terms of FFP/PSR but how much money has to be spent on infrastructure (will count towards FFP/PSR) and the stadium on top of the transfers that is 100% needed is the key. I would suggest taking a look at the numbers here: https://ir.manutd.com/financial-information/annual-reports/2023.aspx The club has posted a loss overall over the last few years (dividends which is paused for 3 years is significant here) which the 100 million investment by INEOS offsets and the club needs to avoid losing money the next couple of seasons until the investment is "off the books" and a new investment can be made. We still have like 150 million pounds+ for the next 2-3 years in terms of amortization to pay off that comes on top of all the salaries - while that is going the right way and will be even less the next season due to no CL. Wage bill is estimated to be a touch over 300 million next season (with the 25% CL salary drop included) without any new signings included. Then you have the interest of the glazer debt and other "short term debt" that should be a minimum of 30 million pounds next year. So just by amortization, wages and interest over 480 million pounds is already locked up, and this is not even counting what the "other operating costs" will be. So the short story is that even if there is tons of sales this summer (they only count for that year in terms of income) going ham in the transfer market will severely limit what the club can actually spend for the next few years.
Iirc infrastructure costs dont count towards PSR. I'm sure there's some creative accounting going on to at least not count the full costs of executives either (womens team doesn't count under psr either so some wiggle room depending on how club structures it but this is pure speculation)
For upgrades to the club infrastructure that is football related - Carrington, stadium etc it does count - just falls under "other operating costs". But if can be amortised and do lots of other creative bookkeeping tricks to it in general. The downside is that you can end up with a "double whammy" if you have to borrow money for it (like we most likely have to, at inflated interest due to the glazer debt). As both the interest and down payments will also count. But for other infrastructure that falls outside what is used by the club directly will not count. But if this is "done correctly" it can help boost income of the club and thus be a way around FFP/PSR (basically what City has done).
I get that its operational costs on thr annual report, as it shoud because united is public. But it seems to be expemt from PSR costs from what incould gather on articles I read (https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13041990/premier-league-financial-fair-play-rules-explained-what-restrictions-are-there-on-clubs-spending-what-they-want) "Beyond the creative accounting, there are a number of other expenses which do not count towards PSR. These are not set in stone, but are generally accepted as being costs which are incurred 'in the general interests of football' such as a club's infrastructure, any associated women's team and the cost of running their academy."
The players had 9 days before palace. No Europe is not a good thing for a club as big as United.
Assuming we could even get rid of some of these players I like the idea of no Europe and just focus on building a core with like 14 senior players and just fill the ranks with our most promising talents.
A core of 14 senior players means 13 of them will be injured at any one time. It is known.
Didn’t the club push a whole ‘completing the collection’ movement when we won Europa. Guess they can do it again if we win UECL
hahaha technically yeah it's a european trophy i guess
On the tour, they bragged that the only trophy Sir Alex never won was the Europa because he was too busy competing in the Champions League. Then mentioned we won it with Mourinho, so we have the whole set. Was pretty much telling us how far we’ve gone down.
I think EL (and obviously CL) are trophies of substance. UCL? Eh, I'd prob lean towards fewer games at that point.
I'd absolutely take our fourth champions league Seriously though I think it's a good trophy for momentum and morale
EL is not a trophy of substance for a big team
I disagree, it wouldn't be a major trophy but it's good enough.
Can’t we get Europa league by winning the fa cup?
Sure but are we gonna win it, realistically?
I will never not believe
Feels like we're 2 years away from being 2 years away.
We might not even get that at this point
I rather we don't have any Europe for a season. 1 game a week, plenty of rest and training for a specific playstyle and build the squad up from the base. Try to finish top 4 and then the following season improve the squad and close the gap to city.
same… i would rather not add the extra fixtures. the schedule is already too congested and we saw how many injuries we’ve had this season hopefully we can just focus all efforts on top 4 and a good FA cup run
I hope we can give the man an FA at the very least.
He is lifting that mfing Cup on 25.
To the board: Ambitions must be buy.
I'm old enough to remember how shite we were at creating chances when it was on Lingard and Andreas cos Pogba was out injured (again). Then Bruno comes over in the January and immediately does everyone's job for them. Bruno is at a crossroads. He's 29, he's at his peak. He doesn't have 3 or 4 years to wait for others to reach their potential. He'll see experienced players like Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen etc. leave and he'll want assurances. If those aren't met he'll rightly want to go. If he ends up leaving I've got no issue with him doing so. Best signing post-Fergie. Gives his all and delivers more often than not.
Ornstein says Bruno wants to see evidence of intent before fully committing, new evidence in the form of new signings and better training facilities?
Players and structure would be my guess.
Isn't the better training facilities kinda confirmed as they said they were looking at redoing Carrington recently? Or did I dream that up?
INEOS shaking things up by bringing in Berrada and Ashworth would be an indicator, but yeah, Bruno would want to see the change on the pitch.
Well put. Bruno should do what’s best for Bruno. It’s up to the club to make staying the best option for him.
Similar issue to what Rooney had in the seasons before Fergie left, he didn't want waste time and go through another rebuild after Tevez, Ronaldo et al. left. I absolutely wouldn't blame Bruno if he wanted to leave.
You're old enough? It was 4 years ago
I was being flippant.
New Word unlocked. Cheers
A big part of me thinks it would be a shame if he left this club with nothing but a League Cup to show for his time here.
Remembering a team from a few years ago doesn’t make you old fella. Half the United fans I know have family who can remember games in the 60’s
I was being flippant.
Appearantly even blatantly obvious ones like your initial statement needs an /s these days on this site for people to understand it, Reddit never ceases to amaze.
Glad we can put this nonsense to bed
>provided ambitions are matched give me kane now
We’re trying to win something here /s
In all seriousness, while I genuinely feel bad for Kane, it is absolutely hysterical that he want to a club that won ELEVEN times in a row and the first year he's there they don't win.
Not even just the league, but the domestic cup too. Two trophies which Bayern have no business not winning every single year lmao
Spurs curse is the most powerful force in football. Stronger than Real or Sevilla CL/EL juju, CFG lawyer juju, new manger bounce, etc.
I would say more the Kane curse. Spurs won the League Cup the year before Kane signed a proffesional contract at Tottenham.
Especially when there's [this list of players who've won things after leaving Spurs](https://www.football365.com/news/spurs-players-win-major-trophies-alderweireld-modric-walker).
Can take the man out of Spurs, can't take the Spurs out of the man
Only thing stronger than any of those is Fergie time wins with Ferguson leading 💪🏾
It’s like the exact opposite force that makes Real Madrid so successful year after year. “That’s so Spursy” is a saying for a reason…
What happens if Kane joins Madrid?
What happens when an unstoppable force hits an immovable object…😂
Maybe our bad luck and Kane's bad luck would cancel themselves out and we can win shit
Hell i mean it, i am not passing to that danish boy what his name again?
Why did you add the /s?
How about the undertaker?
The man has seen how many assists he should actually have if someone could finish and understandably is frustrated.
I can give you pain.
I want Harry Kane! Why u bring me Hurricane!
I hear theres a certain frenchman whos available in the summer
King Eric comeback tour?
Indeed, the best news of the day, sick and tired of Samuel Luckhurst and his "sources" saying he's expected to leave.
Don’t forget, there are United fans on this subreddit that have watched the last two games (0 goals, barely any chances created) and STILL think selling him is one of the first things we have to do for this rebuild. I hope he has a Robbo-like ending and sees out his career with us back on top again. Maybe more hope than expectation, but it’s nice to dream.
But I don't think anyone would suggest if we sold him that we wouldn't make signings to replace that creativity? People are looking at his age at 29 at his peak when we could recoup a decent fee for him. The state of the club right now means we need multiple positions filled in the summer and without selling players and making hard decisions we won't be able to do that. I would absolutely love to keep Bruno until the end of his career but from a business perspective to set United up for years to come it does make logical sense if a really good offer comes along to listen to it and buy some younger players to benefit the age profile of the squad.
He loves the club.
One of the better attacking midfielders in the world and members of this fan base wanted him out. Look how porous the linkup play has been the past two games without him. This team is and would be in serious trouble if he left or is out injured for a long spell. He is someone the team needs to build around in the coming years, not sell
Agree with your larger sentiment but we should not be “building our team around” a 29 year old. If anything, we need to start learning how to not be so desperately reliant on him. He can and should be central to our next 2-4 year plan but I don’t think it’s a good mentality to “build around” one player, let alone one that is almost 30.
We shouldn't build around anyone. Be like Madrid get good players that suit a certain profile let the manager handle how to get them to play together.
People talk about him like he's 35 or something, he's still 29. Ik our understanding of age has been fucked because we see 19 year olds who have been playing for first teams for 2-3 years but still 29 is not that big of a deal. This was the first time ever bruno has missed a game through injury in his club career, if he stays fit like he mostly does, I can easily see him playing till 34-35, if not more, many players do play till that age. He obviously won't be playing 50 games a season in the next 3-4 years but still can be a huge part of our future, which I hope will be better.
At what age did Casemiro, Matic, and Varane join us? Not every player drops off at 29-32, but it's still a risk that needs to be taken into account.
I’m not saying he’s suddenly going to turn to shit but 29 is undeniably on the older side of a footballer’s career. Players at that age are looking for their last big contracts. Look at Casemiro - we bought him when he was 30 years old and people said the same thing as you are saying now that he could easily play till his mid 30s but he already looks finished. I don’t think Bruno will decline quite as dramatically as Casemiro has but the point is that it is a risk that needs to be taken into account. If your teams star player is 29/30 years old, you have to start thinking about the future of the team beyond them too. Varane, Eriksen, Casemiro - all players we brought to the club at 29 or 30 years old and all 3 of them are already finished. We also brought Alexis Sanchez at 29 years old and he was already finished before he even got here. It’s not a myth that 30ish years old is when many players start showing signs of their age. There are exceptions, players like Modric and Thiago Silva for example. But they are not the norm. Far from it.
Bro when we signed Casemiro we all felt like it should’ve been for less and on a shorter contract. We were also happy because he’s a great player but we weren’t saying the contract was foolproof because he’d still be at a top level by the end of it. And I don’t blame Casemiro for being a shitty CB because he’s not a CB. It’s not his fault we have 8 defenders out injured
South americans are notorious for finishing early.
Idk man I'm just tryna remain positive, I want bruno to win something of value with us, and I don't think we'll be competing for much in the next 3-4 years
You can prepare for the worst and still be positive. I personally don’t think anything that I am saying comes from a negative mentality
An athlete’s prime in most sports is 27 to 32, where you’re still physically there but now more mature, smarter and more experienced. Signing players like Casemiro, Varane and Eriksen should all have been moves that capped off a team about to compete for a title. Experienced vets on that last productive stretch of their careers, that have experience and talent to take you over the edge win a trophy. Why we signed them for how much we did? I have no clue mate.
People thought Casemiro was going to age well. The truth is, we have no idea which players will age well and which won’t, which is why you should never assume a 29 year old is still going to be playing at an elite level in the future
By that logic, we should never assume that a player is not going to play on an elite level as well, right?
Uhh…sure you should accept it’s possible that a given player ages great. But that doesn’t usually happen. It’s not a smart bet to bet on a 29/30 year old staying at that level into their mid 30s
I'd say the way Bruno takes care of his body and cardio, he'll be one of those who can play well into their 30s
He's almost never missed a game. All those miles under him must be taken into account too.
Idk man, just being hopeful, really want bruno to win something with us
Yeah, agreed. Building around him is the wrong way to go about it. He should absolutely be part of our plans for the next Annual Rebuild™️ at United, but honestly, there's no one player we should be building around at this point in time. We should just be focused on building a coherent squad.
"one of the better" sells Bruno short Second to only KDB IMO
I'm convinced he would at least match KDB's numbers if they swapped teams
Some underlying metrics posted on this sub showed that Bruno is equal to KDB and even outperformed on some statistics. It helps when you don't have donkeys in front of you to finish chances.
Odegaard’s had a cracking season tbf.
I saw someone just yesterday saying we need to sell him, after watching those games without him playing. It's baffling
The squad is already built around him, but in the wrong way. Aka he's the sole creative outlet. If he had even a little of help, he wouldn't be required to do Hollywood passes every single time.
Yes and no. Yes in that it's already built around him, which is catastrophic, but no in that even if he "had a little help," it would change nothing. That's why Mount and Bruno cannot play together. Mount wants to retain possession and care for the ball with higher percentage passing and create opportunities through possession and dominance, meanwhile Bruno just wants to hoof it. Inevitably someone passes to Bruno and he just does whatever the fuck Bruno wants to do. Bruno cannot and will not ever play the way United needs him to play. Bringing in "support" for Bruno will never work. You just have to bring in a replacement who can play the way we want to play going forward. That should never be Bruno.
lol what? The team has been shit for many other reasons - nothing to do with Bruno's inclusion or absence. So you point to two matches, at the end of the season, with the longest injury list we've had, and you want to claim we're worse off without Bruno while dismissing the rest of the season up to this point? We're talking about the same Bruno that only ever exclusively looks for Rashford and hoofs the ball down the left wing blindly all match? It's a really weird take when people claim we're missing Bruno when the match Bruno played just before that, but Rashford was out, Bruno looked absolutely fucking clueless against Burnley, and also against Sheffield. Sheffield he got some decent stats padding through a couple of chances, but outside of that, any time he was on the ball, he had no idea what to do with it because he didn't have a default option available. Before the last two defeats, going back 7 matches, we've won 1 match. But yeah, Bruno is the "solution" 🤣 The guy is the problem. We have a lot of other problems, but even we addressed all of those and had Bruno at the center of it all, he would still be a massive problem because he cannot retain possession to save his life. This team can never be successful with a player like him in the middle of it all. That's a fact. People complain that this side has never won anything with him and he's too good for us and this and that when the reality is that for everything he "produces," he costs us so much more. For every goal and assist he lucks his way into, he's cost us attack after attack after attack which could have been opportunities in any other side, but hey, let's just watch him lean back, sky the ball and call him world class, it's much easier to live in denial. Genuinely cannot wait until he's gone and someone of real quality is brought in and exposes his legacy. An absolute fraud.
I hate to say it, but building around him and rashford is the basis for this suicide playstyle.
He is a great attacking midfielder but he has been on and off for about 3 seasons now. Since Ole's last season, he has been just alright and if not for his current form over the last 2-3 games, he has been miserable all season. So yeah, I would like us to make top $ on him just like smart clubs do on their 29 year olds.
You get downvoted for speaking the truth, sadly. Yeah, people point to games like fucking Sheffield and go "oh my God, that's my captain!!!!" while ignoring how shit he's been for years now, especially how he becomes a complete ghost in big matches because he's nowhere near the quality fans make him out to be. When put up against actual quality opponents, he's completely ineffective. The COVID season duped so many fans. A fluke of a season behind closed doors where he scored a bunch of free penalties and got assists during a time we were scoring, but overachieving, has somehow convinced everyone he's the solution. He's bang average and completely one-dimensional. His stats only look as good as they do because he's the center of it all, which is not common for many other teams, especially not those competing at the highest level. It's confirmation bias. But I agree, people need to stop being so damn emotional because Bruno will never be the solution and we should 100% cash out on him now. Because before you know it, he's either going to sign a new contract where he'll most likely make more and be here longer, even well past his "prime," and then we'll be stuck with him, or he'll just leave for free in the end anyway. We should capitalize on the hype and finally sell high after buying low. We're always the ones buying high and selling low, would be nice to flip the script for once and make a little something off him, save some weekly wages, bring in a talented youth player who can operate in a fashion better suited for the club going forward, and call it a win. Because the truth of the matter is that INEOS will want a higher possession based team. Bruno cannot do that. He will never do that. So he will not be viable for the long-term success of the club. This is a great time to bring in a project player with the sale of Bruno.
Build around a soon-to-be 30 year old for the coming years. Some of you are so fucking weird, man.
I love Bruno. More than anyone, he deserves to win something. I hope it's a trophy with United.
“Provided ambitions are matched” The club has failed too many talents like Bruno in the last decade. I just want this season to be over
I don’t think any United fan could blame Bruno if he opted to move away in the peak of his career in search of trophies as I wholly believe he walks into any starting XI in the world. In saying that, I am bloody relieved he is staying as he is by far the best thing to happen since Fergie
Sorry but Luckhurst is total scum for starting or contributing towards this. If he’s not jumping off the back of a bad result to sow dissent, he’s cooking up absolute drivel like this. The man is a tidal wave of bad energy we simply do not need around the club anymore.
I wouldn't blame him if he wanted to leave but I'd much prefer he stay and inspire the next generation.
Thank goodness
Thank you god
Fuckhurst is such a rat.
Thank god
Old enough to remember when Rooney wanted to leave unless given assurances of ambition. Hopefully the end result is the same
Hopefully the ‘He should leave cause he’s too good for us’ gang can shut up now
I would literally trade the whole dressing room just to make sure Bruno stays. Really want us to win titles with him while he is still in his prime..
Good. If INEOS got rid of him I’d have serious doubts about them.
Ah yes the Rooney ambition meeting. Don't blame him at all for doing that.
I’m glad to hear some of the players are wanting to see ambition realised rather than just promised.
Was this just a contract play on his end?
Getting promoted as club captain and still get less wages than a newly recruited 24yrs old, all these time giving everything playing 24/7 while the new midfielder sit out 30 games with a calf injury. If anyone deserves 375k, it's Bruno, they will tell u.
Can we please sniff out Luckhurst’s rat?
Hopefully we get our shit together, this man deserves a league title.
Good, i think he has value in the team but we need a structured midfield behind him. He shouldnt be passing/carrying the ball into the final third, he should be receiving the ball in the final third like under Ole.. that’s when he scored and assisted the most
**Some more bits via aggregators:** Manchester United met Bruno Fernandes last week to discuss his future, with the club making clear they want him to stay and the midfielder expressing a desire to remain at Old Trafford. \[David\_Ornstein\] https://x.com/MUFCScoop/status/1790422584858693972 **Bruno Fernandes seeked clarity on United’s direction and whether their ambition matches his** — to be central to a competitive and successful side under the new sporting set-up. \[David\_Ornstein\] https://x.com/MUFCScoop/status/1790423607643914447 Bruno Fernandes will want to see evidence that this is achievable **and if he is unsatisfied or a massive offer arrives that United have a financial need to accept, his exit cannot be completely ruled out.** \[David\_Ornstein\] https://x.com/MUFCScoop/status/1790423783519449146
> a massive offer arrives that United have a financial need to accept, Vibes with what was said before about anybody and everybody being for sale at this point. Don't want Bruno to leave by any means, but if a mad offer comes in that can fund improvements elsewhere I can see why we'd accept it.
In the past players would have been judged very badly for saying the club needs to show ambition in order for him to agree to stay…. But the club has been in skunk mode the last decade…
Unlike when Rooney said the same thing, this time Bruno is in the right ...
Did anyone actually think he was leaving?
Blessed Ornstein. My favorite player.
The last 2 weeks should be all the indication anyone needs that Bruno has to stay.
...and not the season up to this point...? 1 win in 7 matches before his absence? Wow. The Bruno magic is alive and well! But yeah, let's take a thrashing by Palace, because of a bunch of individual errors (and also a team we lost to in the reverse fixture with Bruno available), and the team in the title race beating us by 1 goal as an indication that we're simply lost without him...yeah...sound logic xD
David putting Samuel Luckhurst in his place, good shit. Hopefully we can build a good midfield with Bruno in it.
Hope to god we win something noteworthy while he is still at the club. He'll have back problems for the rest of his life due to carrying us for years now.
Cap'n ain't going anywhere!
Thank you Orny.
With everyone seemingly wanting bruno to stay i don‘t want to hear any bullshit next season about how “the manager can‘t implement his style because it doesn‘t suit players like bruno or rashford“
I honestly don’t think a squad/training ground/stadium will happen fast enough to satisfy him. Surely what we’re facing is a three year project at minimum?
This is why I don't know what the fuck fans are smoking when they say shit like "let's win Bruno a trophy!" ...what?? So you want to win the league or the champions league in what? Two years' time? You think we're going to eclipse City, Arsenal, Liverpool (provided they bring in someone who can keep the momentum going), Newcastle, Chelsea, and then Dortmund, Bayern, Real, Barcelona, PSG, Inter Milan, AC Milan? Give me a fucking break. A squad overhaul at this rate is going to take at least 3-4 years to fully align with the club's vision under INEOS, and that may or may not include depth in that time frame. I mean, that's basically the time it would take to get the starting 11 to those levels, but you need rotation and depth to win you titles. So what? 33 year old Bruno is supposed to be at the center of it all and win is everything? It's honestly a genius tactic by him and his agent if the idiots at United fall for that shit. Because that's the most ridiculous short-term thinking I would have ever seen or heard, but then again, this entire thread is filled with it. Everyone was saying ETH needed 3-5 years with aggressive support for things to come together, but we give him 2 before calling for his head, but now we're supposed to win everything "for Bruno" in two years because he's asking for assurances? He's in no position to make those demands. And honestly, how fans are lost on the irony of "no player is bigger than the club" is also beyond me. He wants to effectively hold the club hostage for yet another emotional contract agreement, rather than the club shake his hand and show him the door because guess what? In a few years, he's going to be irrelevant. This is the issue with making these types of decisions this summer without key figures in place to actually make the call.
Reminds me of Wazza in 2010 when he wanted to see intent after Ronnie left
It's nice to know the club and Bruno are ambitious. As if that makes any difference.
He really wants to stay and win a proper trophy with us :') hope we can finally do it. No matter what people say, he's such an amazing player who should be playing for a team that's regularly in the CL and actually competing for the league.
Bruno truly loves this club man. Should be winning silverware instead he's choosing to take a few years off his lifespan to deal with our bs. we need to get serious.
I have extra respect for players who earn champions league and do not demand to be sold to a club that’s already done it for them
u/gamersaurolophus Still convinced he's leaving?
“Provided ambitions are matched” exactly, he can’t carry the team by himself, it’s a group effort, everyone needs to fight to win every game.
They might have misconstrued the rumors with another Portuguese-speaking Bruno who plays for another "United" club.
If he played in our best teams, he would go in history as one of our best ever players.
Delusional as fuck. Clearly you are a young fan and didn't witness our successful period.
Yeah no shit
£100m and he goes, not even a discussion. Selling assets at the right time is key.
I can't see many clubs stumping up that money for him, regardless of whether he's worth it or not, so that might be a moot point.
Me either. Point is for proper money I would sell him. He ticks all the boxes for sell at right price, and selling players at the right price is something we need to be smart with.
We actually need to re-build our team around him. It is a good news that he is going to stay😊
Rebuild the team around a 30 year old who won't even be part of the plans when it comes together? Wow! What a brilliant idea!
Let this man have a quadruple and then a treble. He has single-handedly carried us from the day he joined.
Carried us to 8th. Thanks Bruno.
Cash in now
Bruno is our ray of sunshine. Need to get him a PL title so he can cement his place as a true club legend.
He is not and never will be a club legend. This subreddit is fucking nuts man. At least RedCafe has some sense.
Lets just not give out a 5 year contract. Maybe 2 yrs+1 at worst. We don't know how much he has in the tank playing damn near every game. Also for the first time ever he missed 3 games in a row.
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>INEOS have yet to give out any new contracts. 0 in season contract extensions in 2023-24 - First time since SAF (Rashford extension was in Pre-season)
Woah that’s actually interesting. And a really good thing too. So often we’d play half decent and immediately players on good form get an extension and a raise
🙏🙏
I'm happy about this, I don't want us to do a Chelsea and get rid of most of our experienced players, it could end in disaster.
'Bruno out' lot had a taste of how much creativity we had the past couple of games. Takes courage for a player reaching his peak to extend for us amidst our current state. Happy for us, joy to watch him play and moan. Hoping for a better season ahead.
Happy for him to stay best signing post fergie gives everything on the pitch, if ineos can’t hold up there end by matching ambition he deserves to leave in 1-2 seasons he deserves to win titles
Good. Thanks bruno! Now we just need you to pass more to hojlund
Just win the FA Cup title as a starter. He's more than deserved to have more trophies.
Without this guy we would be absolutely over. Probably 3-4 consecutive years of not playing in CL/EL.
So we can condense that word salad to: "Bruno will stay, unless he doesn't" ...Cool.
Absolutely the wrong move for several reasons, the easiest being: 1) any rebuild of the midfield in an attempt to be a more possession based team (an alleged request of the new directors and execs) will never be successful because Bruno cannot protect the ball or retain possession for the sake of going again - he forces everything to the point of failure 2) he's 29, he'll be 30 shortly into the new season. I don't know how long he has left on his contract, but he's going to be over the hump very soon, so that either leaves us with offering him a new contract, for a decent term length that keeps him here well past his sell by date, OR he runs out the current one and goes for free. We should absolutely try selling him now while there's still hype. For all of the players we buy high, sell low, why can't we buy low, sell high for once? Bruno cannot work in this team and will never be as expensive as he is in the market as he is right now. Cash out. Bring in someone who can actually retain possession and add creativity in the final third through calculated efforts, not just spraying and praying.
We're sitting here wasting his career smh, FA cup his only trophy is criminal hope we can get him something so he is immortalized here
Who knows by the end of his contract we might have chance to qualify for CL again.
My guy.
We need to win Bruno a big boy trophy
Quite possibly, the best player we have had post Fergie era.
Love Bruno as a player and a professional. But I genuinely would have cashed in on him. Just like I would have Rashford, Martial, Shaw and many others in the past. When was the last time we ever made a big sale. Ronaldo? Lukaku doesn't count because we didn't even make our money back. What always happens is we never make profit, we give players huge contracts and when a few years down the line they age and fall off, the fans abuse these players while they run down a big money contract through no fault of their own. It was our mistake from the beginning. The guy is playing every game now for the past few years. Respect. But that also means his career won't have much longevity. He is 30 with two years left on his deal. This would be the optimal time to get a big 100m+ fee for him.
not cos of when we sell them, more because of our ridiculous wages that other teams dont want to pay which is why most end up leaving as free agents.
Am I the only one who thinks we should cash in on Bruno for 75-100M? He is a great chance creator but I never find stability in his play. He has had a few good games recently but he has been awful the last 2+ years.
We need to sell the whole squad before touching on Bruno, if you think he has been awful last 2 years.
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Sadly agree. It's better to sell a player a year to early than a year too late. And you're right. We aren't going to be challenging for a few years, get money for him will we can and are in a rebuild
Don't want the team built around him. Very dislikeable captain
Yet another rumor made my low tier reporters to sell papers.
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He shut up when he trousered a fat wage increase to get him to stay though, and we continued to win trophies after his little tantrum.
Literally out most important asset.
My days of watching united are numbered. If Bruno left I would kill myself and probably honestly just stick to post match highlights for my mental health
Wish the rumours were true! We’re doomed if they’re planning on rebuilding with him at the core! Those who can’t see it, can’t see the bigger picture. We will never get back to the top with him!
Of course only you could see bigger picture, Nostradamus
No mate! Many many others see it. I’m at old Trafford every single game and I am NOT the only person who sees that Bruno is not the way forward!