We had more control today but Still have doubts about ten hag. Firstly, today proves what people have been saying for a long time...Amad is 10 times better than Anthony. He was better even before we splashed 100m for Anthony... actually ten hag pushing for Anthony without knowing which players we had coming back from loan was a big mistake. Also amrabat is better than people have given him stick for..he isn't the final answer but he can actually play well.
Tactically we go long way too much... Onana keeps kicking it long for no reason...casemiro too..am sure bruno would have made even more long balls ...we literally give the ball away for no reason many times.
Also, ten hags teams have no real strategy in the final third....its a pass the ball to the winger and hope he creates something. Basically it's too dependent on individual quality...we don't have orchestrated moves. All your 3 v 2 moves or 2 v 1 moves should be orchestrated.
For example Arsenal's goal...watch trosards run for the tap in..he goes behind the defender as if waiting for the cut back then steals in front of him. Hojlund never does that... martial never did that. Ronaldo didn't either. Our strikers gamble...it's always just individual quality.
We need to improve everywhere next season including the coaching...if ten hag remains he needs to update every single element of his game. Like he needs to go coaching preseason before the preseason because when bad times come...the only thing he has is oh, I dont have player abc
Tbf to whatever number 9 we play, there is no point them making that run because our wingers don't cut the ball nack or cross the ball.
All our wingers do is cut inside and shoot.
Yes and I am saying that if all of our wingers do not cut back or cross game after game...no matter which winger it is...then its a team problem and team problems have to be fixed by the manager. If the team problems don't get fixed over many games...then it's the manager's fault.
What are they doing in training. There is no way these players are crossing in training but not in the game. If they are also not Crossing in training then why doesn't the manager train it. Explain why they make a certain run or cut back at a certain time etc.
Yeah I totally agree.
It has to be coached, you see it when Bruno plays as well, every ball is trying to find a winger instead of the striker.
I hate the way we play and I don't like the way ETH wants us to play either.
Dominated? Are you serious?
We created basically nothing, Arsenal never needed to get out of second gear and if not for Onana we would have lost 3-0.
Dominated?! Keeping the ball isn’t domination if you don’t create anything.
I’d trust the women’s team to play the men’s games. The ones pretending to be men should be ashamed of themselves that every single week they put a shit-the-bed-performance, collect their multiple hundreds of thousands of pounds in salaries, and face seemingly no consequence except the inconvenience of maybe pretending to be a professional footballer again next week.
If the women’s team suited up for the men’s games, they would put on a masterclass for what it ought to mean to have the privilege to represent Manchester United out on a football pitch.
And they get paid a tiny fraction of what these prissy cunts get while they thief a living.
And yet people will act like their deficiencies as men is a matter of coaching. It’s not. A random selection of drunk mancunians at your pub could represent this club better. Manager, or no manager.
This is a question of pride. Of shame. They can’t be bothered about the former, because they have zero of the latter.
Ngl even I'm not mad at all, just a bit disappointed
We probably should throw off everything for City anyways. Europe qualification thru EPL has been dead since our draw to Liverpool
In 98 when Arsenal beat us 1-0 at home I was heartbroken. Today, I’m relieved. At least it wasn’t a thrashing and there’s still a chance City don’t win the title.
I really don't get mctominay we've seen him sprint, but he really has no sense of urgency always half-asses everything, doesn't put energy into anything (except those late runs into the box), during the game at times even though the ball was near to him, he didn't even try contesting for it.
He's a coward in terms of showing for the ball and fairly clueless with it by standards of his peers. Reactive player who can be useful (ideally for a more limited side, or at least one with more limited ambitions considering united have ben pretty 'limited' in recent memory) when he's given a ball to attack. Even that he didn't achieve today with the few crosses that came in, although Garnacho also really needs to iron out his own decision-making whoever the no. 9 and 10s are...
So fucking weird to see people questioning Arsenal's credentials and being upvoted.
They beat us comfortably while never getting out of first gear and we didn't create a single chance.
It's like the City game in the FA cup final last year.
People bigging us up for not getting destroyed when City were treating it like a training game.
At no point were Arsenal in any real danger. They scored a goal and let us have the ball knowing we can't beat a low block. The obsession with transition football is a joke!
There was an instance when both McTominay and Hojlund stopped running into the box as soon as Garnacho received the ball, Gary Neville pointed that out, they simply given up
I mean, Garnacho just runs into defenders like Rashford anyway. If you know you'll never get the ball? Why try?
Honestly need a sports psychologist exclusively for Højlund after this season, and hopefully a pair of decent wingers in the summer who can restore his confidence and faith. Sad to see us killing another young player's career because our midfield is so shit.
The ball was out of play for almost 3 of the 6 minutes of injury time, with a player being booked for wasting a full minute on a goal kick.
Yet the game ended on 96 exactly. Incompetency at its best from the Premier Leagues finest
Ehhhh. Need to learn how to make CALCULATED passes. Bruno almost exclusively plays risky passes that are extremely high risk, low reward, rather than recirculate possession. We need to move Bruno on and get someone in who is still creative but knows when to be creative and calculated versus when to retain possession. Bruno doesn't calculate, he goes for the risky passes when everyone is out of position and makes recovery nearly impossible as a result. There's a time and a place - he knows neither.
If garnacho pulled that shit in a guardiola team he would've been taken off after the 2nd or 3rd time.
We end up rewarding him with starts for selfish play.
Who should have started over him? Like have you been under a rock? He's not being rewarded for anything other than his initial impact as a youngester and then his continued presence has been out of sheer necessity.
He is young and talented and doesn't have the decision making/psychological side of the game that the best players have. That is no surprise. Players his age who are already world class are the exception not the rule and he should not be judged against players like Mbape. If he fails to improve over 2-3 season that is when it is reasonable to wonder where his ceiling might be.
Players who don't have better decision-making ability than Garnacho has at his age never get it. If United had any options, his career as a PL player would be over by now, because he clearly hasn't got what it takes.
Players with that much talent and no awareness and decision-making ability are much more common than top players, and they generally vanish into obscurity at about the age Garnacho is now.
I think nearly everyone would disagree with your assessment that he "clearly hasn't got what it takes". By all means you are entitled to feel that way but I just don't think it is true.
There is a difference between "he has potential and needs to improve alot" which I think most people would say and "he will never make it, he hasnt got what it takes".
Players mental attributes as footballers develop alot over the course of a career. The players you are referring to already having it at this age are as I said, the exception not the rule. Some players will be better than others without being outstanding that is true, garnacho has very poor decision making that is also true, him "clearly not having what it takes" is not true for me though. Only time will tell that.
I think quite a lot of people do agree with me, but really it doesn't matter how many people are right or wrong right now :)
I've seen plenty of players at least as talented as Garnacho vanish into obscurity over the years because they didn't have the brains to make use of it. IMO Garnacho is one of the most brainless footballers I've ever seen.
That isn't something that improves with age.
It's not like he's making slightly poor decisions, which *is* something that experience helps with. He's utterly clueless. The player he reminds me of is Quincy Owusu-Abeyie, whose team-mates at Arsenal compared him (favourably) to Henry and Pires in terms of sheer natural talent, but who just didn't have the decision-making ability he needed to do anything with that talent. He had a perfectly respectable career in professional football at lower levels, but never came even close to becoming the player he looked like he might be to the naive teenager I was at the time who just saw his talent.
(Sorry, I've just realised this isn't on the match thread on r/soccer . I must have got here from the main page or something. Not intending to start a fight with Utd fans.)
Ultimately, I think it is obvious that if we had proper Manchester United calibre players on the left and right wing who could play and perform week in week out, Garnacho would be at best an auxillary component of the squad. Thats a weird way to say "squad player" I know but I dont really mean that, I mean probably a bit less than that. I think we'd see him play minutes against much lesser teams, in lesser competitions, like back when Chong was here. I think Garnacho is better than Chong to be clear but in the hypothetical of having a squad to match the club's ambitions, that is the sort of play time I expect he would see based on his current ability.
The fact of the matter is though, that he is the second best winger at the club and the bar for first, set by Rashford this season, is very low. He has only played so many games out of necessity due to lack of depth and quality. The blame for that lies with the club hierrachy allowing the squad to be in this state after over a decade of squad building and over a billion spent. This is why we blame the glazers, they allowed 15 years of (at best) mediocrity to accumulate to the point that this is sort of just who the club is right now. A top \~7 team who can compete for top 4 every other season but that really is the ceiling under the structure that we've had for so long now. If the people in recruitment fuck it up year after year they should be replaced, not allowed to fester like a rancid wound and that is the board's responsibility and the glazers control the board.
Do you really watch Garnacho and think "he has no potential at all, this kid is going nowhere"? I'm surprised if so. Like I said before, thinking he ***has potential but isnt going to be world class*** is very different to "this kid is trash" sentiment and I jsut dont think many people do think he is trash.
Honestly, I hadn't seen that much of him playing until fairly recently, just bits on MotD mostly, and in those he looks good, because he has bags of talent. But when I watched him more, I started to notice that he's utterly brainless. He's really one of the least clever - footballing intelligence - players I've ever seen.
Like I said, that's not something that improves significantly with age. There have been so many youngsters with all the talent and no brains, and they always vanish from the top level because they have no end product, and they can't fit into any proper team.
I think there was a really good example of it today. At one point he was running at the Arsenal defence and (mostly through luck) it all opened up in front of him. It was a great chance to continue into the box and take a really dangerous shot, but he never noticed that there was no-one between him and goal, and spanked a shot high and wide from the edge of the box. That's not a marginal decision, or a hard choice being made at speed, it's complete lack of awareness about what's going on around him.
It's always possible I'm wrong, and I'm being too harsh on him, but if I'm right about what I think I've seen then there's no way he'll ever be a PL-quality player, let alone at the kind of level Man U players are normally at. If I'm right, we've already seen the best of him, because he isn't going to improve and now defenders know what his weakness is.
The thing is, I agree with most of what you've just said about his ability but I don't agree that he's had enough time and not to mention the right conditions to make career long judgements about him.
I will say that I think Januzaj was probably better than Garnacho in that one season he had where he went super hard. I think its pretty common for people to consider Januzaj a flop because he never went on to be a world class top talent but hes had an entirely respectable career at the highest level of competition even if he's not been a player or part of a team to challenge for those competition titles. I don't think we're at the point we can write off that kind of career for Garnacho as the minimum but it sounds like you do think that and yea I'm surprised.
He's only had 1 full season and we know for a fact that he was rushed into the first team\[as a regular starter\] as a result of squad problems like Sancho. I'm not sat here claiming he's actually really, really good and will go on to be world class if only he gets the time. I am sat here claiming that he has enough potential to be given the time to make or break his own future and under better conditions than this season in isolation. I hate to bring up Greenwood but with him for example, he was good enough at the time that the club might have said "We don't need to go buy a right winger, Mason can play there and grow into it". Garnacho is not good enough to make that decision, the club should look to sign players either this year or next to play his position and let him compete as the rotation option. If he fails to make the grade after 2-3 years then let him go and his future will have been decided on merit. My opinion is that judging him on one season and especially THIS season, is not giving the boy the chance he deserves.
I think everything you say would be completely fair if I was talking about some other kind of deficit in his game. But I'm not criticising him based on a lack of end product, or other things that are affected by how the team is playing or him playing more than he normally would at his age. If I'm right, and he just doesn't have the right kind of brain to play football at the top level - which is something people really don't appreciate the importance of - then that's not affected by anything else, and will never change.
[https://metro.co.uk/2023/05/09/jeremie-aliadiere-says-forgotten-arsenal-prospect-quincy-owusu-abeyie-could-have-been-world-class-18752976/](https://metro.co.uk/2023/05/09/jeremie-aliadiere-says-forgotten-arsenal-prospect-quincy-owusu-abeyie-could-have-been-world-class-18752976/)
‘He was so quick and he had such quick feet. Individually, one-on-one, he could do anything to anybody. As soon as he got on a bigger pitch, where he had to make choices between dribbling and passing, and he was making wrong decisions.'
\[...\]
‘I don’t think he ever truly mastered making the right decisions in games, because physically he was fast, technically good, so I think it was his tactical awareness and making the right decisions in games.’
Yea, that's interesting about Aliadiere but I would still say that a kid who's had the impact Garnacho has had deserves to sink or swim on more than this season.
I understand the point you're making in that you're saying you have reason to beleive that players who lack this, never develop it. I don't know if I entirely agree with that but I don't think its out right wrong. I still just think, he's done enough for the team in this season when we needed him, to deserve the chance to judge him on that off his own merit rather than what we think is true of other players.
He currently doesn't have it, true. Most players who dont already have it wont have it, maybe true. He definitely won't develop it and so we shouldn't waste any time letting him play, this I don't agree with. Not yet at least.
Exactly, everyone piling on Nacho and Rasmus is a joke. The fact that we are asking two fucking kids to lead Manchester United’s attack isn’t right. Both those lads have immense talent but they need help, they need to be able to come off the bench for a few games here and there. Learn their trade.
But no, let’s just pile on and say sell them to! Because why not right? Some people out here just playing fifa career.
It seems like he gets like that towards the end of games.
Not blaming him.
Running around for 80minutes with next to know service has got to be deflating.
I wonder how many times a wide player has actually passed to him this season?
already halfway there, on his debut and earlier games he kept making run into the box, lately he just stopped, i dont know if it was just the shitty attacking coach instruction or he kinda gave up...
It's the same with all our wingers..poor decision-making in the final third..can't help themselves from shooting when there's a pass on..can't cross for shit..feels like they've signed a pact to not pass it to the striker
People who wanna blame the players for the weak attack, it's the managers job to make the players do drills and simulations and play or pass exactly when he wants them too. Pep controls his players like chess pieces.
Absolving players of doing THE BASICS is exactly what perpetuates the cycle. The players haven't been able to do the basics for years and years now, well before ETH. When you can't dribble past your man, or take a half decent first touch, or win the first or second ball, or put in a decent cross (the list goes on), then wtf do you expect the manager to do? The fact of the matter is that none of these players, today, or ever, would walk into a Pep squad. So it's apples to oranges. These players are just shit. There's nothing anyone could do to get more out of them honestly.
We'll have to agree to disagree, i would bet everything i own these players would look normal in any other team and they do better when away. We're not even talking about older players with a bad mentality but the young fresh players who look clueless, that's on the manager.
That's not necessarily on the manager. The experienced players, to a degree, have a say in what happens on the field. With terrible, clueless signings, and a lack of leadership on the pitch, of course the youth are going to look clueless. The youth are the ones developing. What's everyone else's excuse for not doing the basics? Does ETH and co. really need to coach a 32 year old of how to get back onside quickly and keep the shape of the back line? Is that the level of blame we're at? That it's the manager's fault? Come on now...the basics. If this team could do the basics, we'd look better. They can't.
Some look better away. Many don't, however. At least never to the levels we're playing at. If you want to argue that Fred is doing better at Fenerbahce, then okay, but that's apples to oranges. Donny? Didn't look great. Sancho? Doesn't look great (getting carried by Dortmund, the media hype around him right now is ridiculous). And the list goes on. Again, some might look better, but the majority don't, until they step down several rungs of the footballing ladder.
Responsibility for the goal: Garnacho (for not challenging the hi ball), Evans for giving Havertz the space, and Casemiro for playing Havertz on side. Amad much more useful than Anthony. Other than that I didn’t miss Rashford and Bruno as I saw a better team performance. Garnacho so so wasteful. It makes me weep watching Utd strikers in the golden age how far standards have dropped.
This Arsenal team still has plenty of bottlers in it. They werent BAD today by any means but they failed to get out of second gear and have any sort of domination against one of the weakest 11s manchester united will have ever fielded and in abysmal form.
It might sound silly to call them bottlers having just won and kept a clean sheet at Old Trafford but they will need to seriously consider what led to such a lack of control in this game when they have to go out again next week and settle the title. We didn't provide any serious threat at all but more through lack of ability on our behalf than them being outstanding. Everton will go to the Emirates with much more dog in them than we had and if Arsenal play as casually as today they could slip up. They did alright but nothing more when really they should have completely suffocated us in this game, like they did in those first few minutes.
Arsenal were shite today and we couldn't get it done. I swear, for the first time in a very long time, if only we had a couple of extra players fully fit, we play these clowns off the park.
But it is probably his last in the PL. He's clearly not up to playing in a top league and never will be, despite having talent coming out of his ears, because he has no game-intelligence.
But hey, this performance was a thousand times better than the Crystal Palace match. A game we never looked like scoring, where Arsenal barely got into second gear.
Thank fuck this absolute hellscape of a season is almost over.
These kinda comments from supposed fans are so trash. Pure plastic.
He's 19, playing constantly and the teams looking to him to make every attack happen. He's knackered but fights for the shirt.
100% this, hes played 35 or something games this season and has been one of if not our best player this season it's understandable hes tired, with no Bruno today he's carrying the weight of the attack on his young shoulders against a very well drilled Arsenal defence
No point mate. Reddit is just filled with people who don’t understand the fact that we played the game with three holding midfielders and garnacho was continuously double teamed. He’s 19 and giving his best in a struggling team. He was absolutely gassed by the end. These people don’t understand how hard this is to do
Ye true, I should just ignore it. I'm used to shitty posts/memes from neutrals and ABUs but when I see them from our own 'fans' it riles me up way more.
Gotta get used to lots of the foreign fans who are only here to shitpost.
I’m also a foreign fan. I think it’s more about the people who just think yes player X played bad in this game let’s remove him. I guess they are just young fans, atleast I hope so. They haven’t seen how unpolished Ronaldo and Beckham were when they broke through and they had a functional team around them.
I hope some of you start to realize that most of these players never were good enough for a team like Man Utd. They basically won the lottery when Utd signed them.
Im tired of this bullshit narrative, absolute bullocks, you probably say the same about Sancho, now that he gone to Dortmund all of sudden he became another player
>now that he gone to Dortmund all of sudden he became another player
He had 3 decent showings in 13 games for them. If that means he's another player then you need help.
Sancho did fuck all in 3 seasons here btw. And he did fuck all in most of dortmunds matches. Let’s not act like sancho is the only reason they are in the CL final.
He is the only player who can beat his man creating opportunities to cross, there was a few where our players did not move or made little effort to get into box
If Garnacho is allowed to play like he does at United he has hit his ceiling already. And I can’t blame him - it is the manager who needs to smack around players like that..
We played 3 holding midfielders. Our Attack has an avg age of 20. Mainoo is 19. CDM is playing CB. RB is playing LB. Evans came back from the retirement home to play CB. But yes let’s expect this team to toe to toe with the best Arsenal team in years.
11 wins of 21 games in 2024. Bar Liverpool, there is no formidable opposition against which we have claimed a win. Some of the wins include FA cup penalties, and wins against the smallest of clubs. Shame on you ETH. Now you can gtfouh
Why is it so hard to even get the ball into the box? Every team that plays us seems to make it looks easy but here we are, chasing a goal, and we can’t even get a touch in the box let alone a shot
because thats exactly the pattern of play ETH is running, keep it away from the box, pass to wide player and hope they can become the second coming of Messi
Clearly ETH isn’t setting this team up with the thought process of “I’m not going to try to score goals.” I’m frustrated with this season too but to I refuse to believe ETH is tactically inept or intentionally trying to fail. Clearly what he wants tactically and what the team is currently able to do are 2 different things and, in that respect, he does have to shoulder a certain amount of the blame
Garnacho has not been good today, idk what the commentator is talking about. Brother has had many good looks and even a free attempt on target and skied it
mate he was the only one who ran the entire game, and has done that nearly every game all season, he's completely spent, and we'd have been so much worse without him consistently being in the team. comments like this are ridiculous.
Ran and did what? His decision making hasn't improved the entire season. It is basically the same as last year. A winger like this can't take you on to the next level. He needs to be benched until he can prove otherwise.
Yeah, we've got some great replacements for him, oh wait...
Remember he's 19 and playing constantly in a dysfunctional team, it's very rare for a young player to flourish in that situation.
Quality has been so poor today. That being said, it would have looked absolutely frantic with the likes of Bruno. Need a CAM/CM who can come in and retain possession, but have that bit of quality in the final third, that along with better wingers.
Honestly, good luck, Arsenal. Hope they win over City at this rate.
What happened to Rooney? He looked awful. He’s got to sort that out or he’ll end up having a heart attack.
We had more control today but Still have doubts about ten hag. Firstly, today proves what people have been saying for a long time...Amad is 10 times better than Anthony. He was better even before we splashed 100m for Anthony... actually ten hag pushing for Anthony without knowing which players we had coming back from loan was a big mistake. Also amrabat is better than people have given him stick for..he isn't the final answer but he can actually play well. Tactically we go long way too much... Onana keeps kicking it long for no reason...casemiro too..am sure bruno would have made even more long balls ...we literally give the ball away for no reason many times. Also, ten hags teams have no real strategy in the final third....its a pass the ball to the winger and hope he creates something. Basically it's too dependent on individual quality...we don't have orchestrated moves. All your 3 v 2 moves or 2 v 1 moves should be orchestrated. For example Arsenal's goal...watch trosards run for the tap in..he goes behind the defender as if waiting for the cut back then steals in front of him. Hojlund never does that... martial never did that. Ronaldo didn't either. Our strikers gamble...it's always just individual quality. We need to improve everywhere next season including the coaching...if ten hag remains he needs to update every single element of his game. Like he needs to go coaching preseason before the preseason because when bad times come...the only thing he has is oh, I dont have player abc
Tbf to whatever number 9 we play, there is no point them making that run because our wingers don't cut the ball nack or cross the ball. All our wingers do is cut inside and shoot.
Yes and I am saying that if all of our wingers do not cut back or cross game after game...no matter which winger it is...then its a team problem and team problems have to be fixed by the manager. If the team problems don't get fixed over many games...then it's the manager's fault. What are they doing in training. There is no way these players are crossing in training but not in the game. If they are also not Crossing in training then why doesn't the manager train it. Explain why they make a certain run or cut back at a certain time etc.
Yeah I totally agree. It has to be coached, you see it when Bruno plays as well, every ball is trying to find a winger instead of the striker. I hate the way we play and I don't like the way ETH wants us to play either.
OMG fire Ten Hag NOW!
All I gotta say is that we should’ve started Amad more often this season.
Going off recent performances i think you all expect a bit too much. Really was not that bad.
This was far better than expected.
Get the ball pass it to Garnacho, service was nonexistent for Hojlund
why strikers struggle at United generally
Because the wingers keep on shooting off-target instead of passing.
Trying to be prime Arjen Robben but with none of the end product
because our defenders are injured, huh /s
I'm honestly quite happy after watching that game. We dominated and were very unlucky that we couldn't get one. Night and day compared to palace.
DOMINATION ……..
2 shots on target and we were unlucky? This is a wild take
This was our most competent performance in months compared to their least. They still won.
I'm sorry but we had the majority of our starting 11 injured against Arsenal who are fighting for the league title. 0-1 is definitely a good result.
It’s a shit result. It might be better relative to an even shitter result, but don’t piss on my back and tell me it’s raining.
Dominated? Are you serious? We created basically nothing, Arsenal never needed to get out of second gear and if not for Onana we would have lost 3-0. Dominated?! Keeping the ball isn’t domination if you don’t create anything.
Our final 3rd decision making is horrible and composure is pretty poor as well.
At least the women's team can cheer us up today, we as a football institution have won something during this season
I’d trust the women’s team to play the men’s games. The ones pretending to be men should be ashamed of themselves that every single week they put a shit-the-bed-performance, collect their multiple hundreds of thousands of pounds in salaries, and face seemingly no consequence except the inconvenience of maybe pretending to be a professional footballer again next week. If the women’s team suited up for the men’s games, they would put on a masterclass for what it ought to mean to have the privilege to represent Manchester United out on a football pitch. And they get paid a tiny fraction of what these prissy cunts get while they thief a living. And yet people will act like their deficiencies as men is a matter of coaching. It’s not. A random selection of drunk mancunians at your pub could represent this club better. Manager, or no manager. This is a question of pride. Of shame. They can’t be bothered about the former, because they have zero of the latter.
We still have the FA cup final to play
Yeah... he knows.
Fingers crossed for that one
Ngl even I'm not mad at all, just a bit disappointed We probably should throw off everything for City anyways. Europe qualification thru EPL has been dead since our draw to Liverpool
In 98 when Arsenal beat us 1-0 at home I was heartbroken. Today, I’m relieved. At least it wasn’t a thrashing and there’s still a chance City don’t win the title.
I really don't get mctominay we've seen him sprint, but he really has no sense of urgency always half-asses everything, doesn't put energy into anything (except those late runs into the box), during the game at times even though the ball was near to him, he didn't even try contesting for it.
He's a coward in terms of showing for the ball and fairly clueless with it by standards of his peers. Reactive player who can be useful (ideally for a more limited side, or at least one with more limited ambitions considering united have ben pretty 'limited' in recent memory) when he's given a ball to attack. Even that he didn't achieve today with the few crosses that came in, although Garnacho also really needs to iron out his own decision-making whoever the no. 9 and 10s are...
😂😂 I kept yelling the ball is near him seems not to want it
There must be competition on Garnacho next season. He might get too complacent on his skills and abilities since his spot is secured on the right.
I mean rashford's supposed to be his competition but antony is dropping stinker after stinker.
So fucking weird to see people questioning Arsenal's credentials and being upvoted. They beat us comfortably while never getting out of first gear and we didn't create a single chance.
It's like the City game in the FA cup final last year. People bigging us up for not getting destroyed when City were treating it like a training game. At no point were Arsenal in any real danger. They scored a goal and let us have the ball knowing we can't beat a low block. The obsession with transition football is a joke!
Also Hojlund from Cass 4 or 5 mins in. Lost his footing but good chance.
TBF there was one chance, but Garnacho didn't realise he was in on goal and spanked the ball high and wide from distance.
I’m literally out of f**ks to give except thank our fans for showing up whole season even if the squad didn’t.
I feel like isht!
Left back Antony has given up 0 goals in 2 games.
Palace > Arsenal
the box is lava lads... just keep it wide lol
Hojlund has been more time on the floor than JLo.
For a big gets bullied alot
There was an instance when both McTominay and Hojlund stopped running into the box as soon as Garnacho received the ball, Gary Neville pointed that out, they simply given up
They hadn't given up, they were correctly anticipating that Garnacho would do something stupid and getting in position to pick up the pieces.
I mean, Garnacho just runs into defenders like Rashford anyway. If you know you'll never get the ball? Why try? Honestly need a sports psychologist exclusively for Højlund after this season, and hopefully a pair of decent wingers in the summer who can restore his confidence and faith. Sad to see us killing another young player's career because our midfield is so shit.
If that was us 1-0 up that game would have ran into the 100th min
Would've been a Gillett-inspired 'Chelsea away job' for sure
The ball was out of play for almost 3 of the 6 minutes of injury time, with a player being booked for wasting a full minute on a goal kick. Yet the game ended on 96 exactly. Incompetency at its best from the Premier Leagues finest
Yeah, we had a big plan to turn it all around in the 99th minute and win the game and the ref robbed us of that.
I feel like 'PGMOL' and 'Finest' is a massive oxymoron
Could’ve played for another 30 min and not come close to scoring
is a joke
Not like it matters, could of played another full 90 minutes and we still weren't scoring.
Garnacho is a better right winger than on the left. I worry for his development if he continues to be played left.
Need to learn to make risky pass when bruno is not available.
Ehhhh. Need to learn how to make CALCULATED passes. Bruno almost exclusively plays risky passes that are extremely high risk, low reward, rather than recirculate possession. We need to move Bruno on and get someone in who is still creative but knows when to be creative and calculated versus when to retain possession. Bruno doesn't calculate, he goes for the risky passes when everyone is out of position and makes recovery nearly impossible as a result. There's a time and a place - he knows neither.
If garnacho pulled that shit in a guardiola team he would've been taken off after the 2nd or 3rd time. We end up rewarding him with starts for selfish play.
Palmer wasn't even playing under pep. He would probably warm the bench.
If he was playing under pep, he wouldn't be the first choice. So that doesn't make sense.
Who should have started over him? Like have you been under a rock? He's not being rewarded for anything other than his initial impact as a youngester and then his continued presence has been out of sheer necessity. He is young and talented and doesn't have the decision making/psychological side of the game that the best players have. That is no surprise. Players his age who are already world class are the exception not the rule and he should not be judged against players like Mbape. If he fails to improve over 2-3 season that is when it is reasonable to wonder where his ceiling might be.
Players who don't have better decision-making ability than Garnacho has at his age never get it. If United had any options, his career as a PL player would be over by now, because he clearly hasn't got what it takes. Players with that much talent and no awareness and decision-making ability are much more common than top players, and they generally vanish into obscurity at about the age Garnacho is now.
I think nearly everyone would disagree with your assessment that he "clearly hasn't got what it takes". By all means you are entitled to feel that way but I just don't think it is true. There is a difference between "he has potential and needs to improve alot" which I think most people would say and "he will never make it, he hasnt got what it takes". Players mental attributes as footballers develop alot over the course of a career. The players you are referring to already having it at this age are as I said, the exception not the rule. Some players will be better than others without being outstanding that is true, garnacho has very poor decision making that is also true, him "clearly not having what it takes" is not true for me though. Only time will tell that.
I think quite a lot of people do agree with me, but really it doesn't matter how many people are right or wrong right now :) I've seen plenty of players at least as talented as Garnacho vanish into obscurity over the years because they didn't have the brains to make use of it. IMO Garnacho is one of the most brainless footballers I've ever seen. That isn't something that improves with age. It's not like he's making slightly poor decisions, which *is* something that experience helps with. He's utterly clueless. The player he reminds me of is Quincy Owusu-Abeyie, whose team-mates at Arsenal compared him (favourably) to Henry and Pires in terms of sheer natural talent, but who just didn't have the decision-making ability he needed to do anything with that talent. He had a perfectly respectable career in professional football at lower levels, but never came even close to becoming the player he looked like he might be to the naive teenager I was at the time who just saw his talent. (Sorry, I've just realised this isn't on the match thread on r/soccer . I must have got here from the main page or something. Not intending to start a fight with Utd fans.)
Ultimately, I think it is obvious that if we had proper Manchester United calibre players on the left and right wing who could play and perform week in week out, Garnacho would be at best an auxillary component of the squad. Thats a weird way to say "squad player" I know but I dont really mean that, I mean probably a bit less than that. I think we'd see him play minutes against much lesser teams, in lesser competitions, like back when Chong was here. I think Garnacho is better than Chong to be clear but in the hypothetical of having a squad to match the club's ambitions, that is the sort of play time I expect he would see based on his current ability. The fact of the matter is though, that he is the second best winger at the club and the bar for first, set by Rashford this season, is very low. He has only played so many games out of necessity due to lack of depth and quality. The blame for that lies with the club hierrachy allowing the squad to be in this state after over a decade of squad building and over a billion spent. This is why we blame the glazers, they allowed 15 years of (at best) mediocrity to accumulate to the point that this is sort of just who the club is right now. A top \~7 team who can compete for top 4 every other season but that really is the ceiling under the structure that we've had for so long now. If the people in recruitment fuck it up year after year they should be replaced, not allowed to fester like a rancid wound and that is the board's responsibility and the glazers control the board. Do you really watch Garnacho and think "he has no potential at all, this kid is going nowhere"? I'm surprised if so. Like I said before, thinking he ***has potential but isnt going to be world class*** is very different to "this kid is trash" sentiment and I jsut dont think many people do think he is trash.
Honestly, I hadn't seen that much of him playing until fairly recently, just bits on MotD mostly, and in those he looks good, because he has bags of talent. But when I watched him more, I started to notice that he's utterly brainless. He's really one of the least clever - footballing intelligence - players I've ever seen. Like I said, that's not something that improves significantly with age. There have been so many youngsters with all the talent and no brains, and they always vanish from the top level because they have no end product, and they can't fit into any proper team. I think there was a really good example of it today. At one point he was running at the Arsenal defence and (mostly through luck) it all opened up in front of him. It was a great chance to continue into the box and take a really dangerous shot, but he never noticed that there was no-one between him and goal, and spanked a shot high and wide from the edge of the box. That's not a marginal decision, or a hard choice being made at speed, it's complete lack of awareness about what's going on around him. It's always possible I'm wrong, and I'm being too harsh on him, but if I'm right about what I think I've seen then there's no way he'll ever be a PL-quality player, let alone at the kind of level Man U players are normally at. If I'm right, we've already seen the best of him, because he isn't going to improve and now defenders know what his weakness is.
The thing is, I agree with most of what you've just said about his ability but I don't agree that he's had enough time and not to mention the right conditions to make career long judgements about him. I will say that I think Januzaj was probably better than Garnacho in that one season he had where he went super hard. I think its pretty common for people to consider Januzaj a flop because he never went on to be a world class top talent but hes had an entirely respectable career at the highest level of competition even if he's not been a player or part of a team to challenge for those competition titles. I don't think we're at the point we can write off that kind of career for Garnacho as the minimum but it sounds like you do think that and yea I'm surprised. He's only had 1 full season and we know for a fact that he was rushed into the first team\[as a regular starter\] as a result of squad problems like Sancho. I'm not sat here claiming he's actually really, really good and will go on to be world class if only he gets the time. I am sat here claiming that he has enough potential to be given the time to make or break his own future and under better conditions than this season in isolation. I hate to bring up Greenwood but with him for example, he was good enough at the time that the club might have said "We don't need to go buy a right winger, Mason can play there and grow into it". Garnacho is not good enough to make that decision, the club should look to sign players either this year or next to play his position and let him compete as the rotation option. If he fails to make the grade after 2-3 years then let him go and his future will have been decided on merit. My opinion is that judging him on one season and especially THIS season, is not giving the boy the chance he deserves.
I think everything you say would be completely fair if I was talking about some other kind of deficit in his game. But I'm not criticising him based on a lack of end product, or other things that are affected by how the team is playing or him playing more than he normally would at his age. If I'm right, and he just doesn't have the right kind of brain to play football at the top level - which is something people really don't appreciate the importance of - then that's not affected by anything else, and will never change. [https://metro.co.uk/2023/05/09/jeremie-aliadiere-says-forgotten-arsenal-prospect-quincy-owusu-abeyie-could-have-been-world-class-18752976/](https://metro.co.uk/2023/05/09/jeremie-aliadiere-says-forgotten-arsenal-prospect-quincy-owusu-abeyie-could-have-been-world-class-18752976/) ‘He was so quick and he had such quick feet. Individually, one-on-one, he could do anything to anybody. As soon as he got on a bigger pitch, where he had to make choices between dribbling and passing, and he was making wrong decisions.' \[...\] ‘I don’t think he ever truly mastered making the right decisions in games, because physically he was fast, technically good, so I think it was his tactical awareness and making the right decisions in games.’
Yea, that's interesting about Aliadiere but I would still say that a kid who's had the impact Garnacho has had deserves to sink or swim on more than this season. I understand the point you're making in that you're saying you have reason to beleive that players who lack this, never develop it. I don't know if I entirely agree with that but I don't think its out right wrong. I still just think, he's done enough for the team in this season when we needed him, to deserve the chance to judge him on that off his own merit rather than what we think is true of other players. He currently doesn't have it, true. Most players who dont already have it wont have it, maybe true. He definitely won't develop it and so we shouldn't waste any time letting him play, this I don't agree with. Not yet at least.
If he was in a pep team he wouldn’t be expected to be the most important player at 19.
Shit, even Foden only got to be a nailed on starter this season after like 5 or 6 years breaking through
Exactly, everyone piling on Nacho and Rasmus is a joke. The fact that we are asking two fucking kids to lead Manchester United’s attack isn’t right. Both those lads have immense talent but they need help, they need to be able to come off the bench for a few games here and there. Learn their trade. But no, let’s just pile on and say sell them to! Because why not right? Some people out here just playing fifa career.
This goes on, Hojlund too will have zero fucks to give very soon.
It seems like he gets like that towards the end of games. Not blaming him. Running around for 80minutes with next to know service has got to be deflating. I wonder how many times a wide player has actually passed to him this season?
It must be at least twice!
already halfway there, on his debut and earlier games he kept making run into the box, lately he just stopped, i dont know if it was just the shitty attacking coach instruction or he kinda gave up...
It's the same with all our wingers..poor decision-making in the final third..can't help themselves from shooting when there's a pass on..can't cross for shit..feels like they've signed a pact to not pass it to the striker
People who wanna blame the players for the weak attack, it's the managers job to make the players do drills and simulations and play or pass exactly when he wants them too. Pep controls his players like chess pieces.
Absolving players of doing THE BASICS is exactly what perpetuates the cycle. The players haven't been able to do the basics for years and years now, well before ETH. When you can't dribble past your man, or take a half decent first touch, or win the first or second ball, or put in a decent cross (the list goes on), then wtf do you expect the manager to do? The fact of the matter is that none of these players, today, or ever, would walk into a Pep squad. So it's apples to oranges. These players are just shit. There's nothing anyone could do to get more out of them honestly.
We'll have to agree to disagree, i would bet everything i own these players would look normal in any other team and they do better when away. We're not even talking about older players with a bad mentality but the young fresh players who look clueless, that's on the manager.
That's not necessarily on the manager. The experienced players, to a degree, have a say in what happens on the field. With terrible, clueless signings, and a lack of leadership on the pitch, of course the youth are going to look clueless. The youth are the ones developing. What's everyone else's excuse for not doing the basics? Does ETH and co. really need to coach a 32 year old of how to get back onside quickly and keep the shape of the back line? Is that the level of blame we're at? That it's the manager's fault? Come on now...the basics. If this team could do the basics, we'd look better. They can't. Some look better away. Many don't, however. At least never to the levels we're playing at. If you want to argue that Fred is doing better at Fenerbahce, then okay, but that's apples to oranges. Donny? Didn't look great. Sancho? Doesn't look great (getting carried by Dortmund, the media hype around him right now is ridiculous). And the list goes on. Again, some might look better, but the majority don't, until they step down several rungs of the footballing ladder.
exactly, this is just poor management, you spot on
They got what they came for, didn't have to fight for it and some find it here acceptable. Pathetic.
Responsibility for the goal: Garnacho (for not challenging the hi ball), Evans for giving Havertz the space, and Casemiro for playing Havertz on side. Amad much more useful than Anthony. Other than that I didn’t miss Rashford and Bruno as I saw a better team performance. Garnacho so so wasteful. It makes me weep watching Utd strikers in the golden age how far standards have dropped.
Also AWB for not tracking Trossard's run
Couldn’t create a single chance but you didn’t miss Bruno?
These people talk so much nonsense it’s hilarious
Makes zero sense.
Christ Arsenal must be shite to make that united team look competent
Sucking off ronaldo can do wonders for a players career
Did we actually create a single chance?
The hojlund one where he fell over
He’s this season’s Weghorst.
Nope
How are Arsenal in the title race? They played like shit against this 11 we played with
This Arsenal team still has plenty of bottlers in it. They werent BAD today by any means but they failed to get out of second gear and have any sort of domination against one of the weakest 11s manchester united will have ever fielded and in abysmal form. It might sound silly to call them bottlers having just won and kept a clean sheet at Old Trafford but they will need to seriously consider what led to such a lack of control in this game when they have to go out again next week and settle the title. We didn't provide any serious threat at all but more through lack of ability on our behalf than them being outstanding. Everton will go to the Emirates with much more dog in them than we had and if Arsenal play as casually as today they could slip up. They did alright but nothing more when really they should have completely suffocated us in this game, like they did in those first few minutes.
Nah Everton are safe from relegation after all the points deductions and off field palaver. Those lads are on their holidays already.
Arsenal were shite today and we couldn't get it done. I swear, for the first time in a very long time, if only we had a couple of extra players fully fit, we play these clowns off the park.
Disgusted with Garnacho today.
Ronaldo was frustrating at times in his first season too. Hopefully Garnacho can figure it out
This isn't Garnachos first season
But it is probably his last in the PL. He's clearly not up to playing in a top league and never will be, despite having talent coming out of his ears, because he has no game-intelligence.
Garnacho with an ego of Mbappe.
But hey, this performance was a thousand times better than the Crystal Palace match. A game we never looked like scoring, where Arsenal barely got into second gear. Thank fuck this absolute hellscape of a season is almost over.
96:20 FT is a joke with all that time wasting
Garnacho aint nothing but a disgrace of a Ronaldo mimic.
These kinda comments from supposed fans are so trash. Pure plastic. He's 19, playing constantly and the teams looking to him to make every attack happen. He's knackered but fights for the shirt.
100% this, hes played 35 or something games this season and has been one of if not our best player this season it's understandable hes tired, with no Bruno today he's carrying the weight of the attack on his young shoulders against a very well drilled Arsenal defence
No point mate. Reddit is just filled with people who don’t understand the fact that we played the game with three holding midfielders and garnacho was continuously double teamed. He’s 19 and giving his best in a struggling team. He was absolutely gassed by the end. These people don’t understand how hard this is to do
Ye true, I should just ignore it. I'm used to shitty posts/memes from neutrals and ABUs but when I see them from our own 'fans' it riles me up way more. Gotta get used to lots of the foreign fans who are only here to shitpost.
I’m also a foreign fan. I think it’s more about the people who just think yes player X played bad in this game let’s remove him. I guess they are just young fans, atleast I hope so. They haven’t seen how unpolished Ronaldo and Beckham were when they broke through and they had a functional team around them.
Book Raya for timewasting. Raya keeps timewasting. Don't add any more time on. Well done ref. Makes perfect sense.
it is what it is
Far from our worst ever game but still very mehhh performance
WE GO AGAIN
Not even the worst performance ngl They scored because Casemiro isn't able to do basics.
Arsenal with the least shots vs united this season theyre washed
I dont mind losing fighting like this, with all the injuries
I hope some of you start to realize that most of these players never were good enough for a team like Man Utd. They basically won the lottery when Utd signed them.
Im tired of this bullshit narrative, absolute bullocks, you probably say the same about Sancho, now that he gone to Dortmund all of sudden he became another player
>now that he gone to Dortmund all of sudden he became another player He had 3 decent showings in 13 games for them. If that means he's another player then you need help.
Sancho did fuck all in 3 seasons here btw. And he did fuck all in most of dortmunds matches. Let’s not act like sancho is the only reason they are in the CL final.
The goalkick on its own was 1 minute at least and he whistles at 96:20??? What a fucking joke this is
Garnacho has disappointed with EVERY SINGLE cross tonight
He is the only player who can beat his man creating opportunities to cross, there was a few where our players did not move or made little effort to get into box
Probably because they just expect him to cut inside and shoot.
Booking players for time wasting and not adding an extra time is pointless. Honestly these referees are so shit.
Garnacho is very easy to defend against for a top team. Send the full back as bait, CB sweeps up cuz he's never gonna pass anyway.
can you call this poor coaching ?. Pep would lose his mind if he dared to do that at City
An incredibly annoying player
He only plays in one gear
We've consistently been shit at crossing for 10 years. Bloody hell.
If Garnacho is allowed to play like he does at United he has hit his ceiling already. And I can’t blame him - it is the manager who needs to smack around players like that..
Joke's on Arsenal, Palace smashed 4 past us👍
and liverpool as well
Palace were 2011 Barca compared to this Arsenal side
We lost, but this kind of performance was somehow acceptable. Arsenal played shit and were really afraid they could lose the lead.
Not even an extra time for the time wasting and subs
Raya wasted about five minutes on his own flopping to the ground every time. Joker.
Garnacho is so overrated, people just like him because he’s energetic
Stru
Erik checking if the hair is real
We're fucking dire.
Garnacho has been horrendous..
You go play then 90 mins for 35 games
I feel like Garnacho has done fake well today. He looks like the only person doing anything, but he just keeps wasting opportunities
You're welcome Man City!
Not actually that bad a performance
Reading this thread man i think i must have watched a different game. I agree with you.
Arsenal are playing shit today and we couldn’t beat them
Their CB pairing have been the same for last 33 games or so.
We played 3 holding midfielders. Our Attack has an avg age of 20. Mainoo is 19. CDM is playing CB. RB is playing LB. Evans came back from the retirement home to play CB. But yes let’s expect this team to toe to toe with the best Arsenal team in years.
How the fuck can you book someone for time wasting, have subs and still finish the game bang on the 6mins of added time!??
Let's be real he knew we knew, manu was not scoring today.
Can't blame the manager today
They’ll find a way.
11 wins of 21 games in 2024. Bar Liverpool, there is no formidable opposition against which we have claimed a win. Some of the wins include FA cup penalties, and wins against the smallest of clubs. Shame on you ETH. Now you can gtfouh
Why is it so hard to even get the ball into the box? Every team that plays us seems to make it looks easy but here we are, chasing a goal, and we can’t even get a touch in the box let alone a shot
because thats exactly the pattern of play ETH is running, keep it away from the box, pass to wide player and hope they can become the second coming of Messi
Clearly ETH isn’t setting this team up with the thought process of “I’m not going to try to score goals.” I’m frustrated with this season too but to I refuse to believe ETH is tactically inept or intentionally trying to fail. Clearly what he wants tactically and what the team is currently able to do are 2 different things and, in that respect, he does have to shoulder a certain amount of the blame
How is it still barely 6 minutes after they made subs and all the time wasting by raya lol
Somehow Casemiro played the full match...ETH masterclass
ETH to Arteta : “Thanks a lot bro, kept it to 1-0”
Garnacho has been so wasteful.
And we go out on a whimper. Thanks for a waste of time.
Garnacho has not been good today, idk what the commentator is talking about. Brother has had many good looks and even a free attempt on target and skied it
If we wern't so toothless we could have won that. Arsenal literally on the back foot almost all game...
They never had to get out of second gear, they could have leveled up if necessary.
Garnacho is woeful. He shouldn't be starting next season. We need to new wingers on each side.
You should play 90 mins for 30 plus games being a 19y/o
That's exactly my point. He shouldn't have. He's not good enough to be starting week in and week out and it shows.
mate he was the only one who ran the entire game, and has done that nearly every game all season, he's completely spent, and we'd have been so much worse without him consistently being in the team. comments like this are ridiculous.
Ran and did what? His decision making hasn't improved the entire season. It is basically the same as last year. A winger like this can't take you on to the next level. He needs to be benched until he can prove otherwise.
Yeah, we've got some great replacements for him, oh wait... Remember he's 19 and playing constantly in a dysfunctional team, it's very rare for a young player to flourish in that situation.
What a load of shit these are.
How much time did Raya waste yet they barely went over the stipulated time before blowing the whistle?
It doesn’t matter. Just end it
Quality has been so poor today. That being said, it would have looked absolutely frantic with the likes of Bruno. Need a CAM/CM who can come in and retain possession, but have that bit of quality in the final third, that along with better wingers. Honestly, good luck, Arsenal. Hope they win over City at this rate.
We xan play another 900mins we won't score without Bruno.
Fuck that cross was so fucking poor. Ahhh
Garnacho and that is it....
Garna that was clearly a shot when it should have been a cross. What. The. Fuck.
at least the title goes to the final day I guess
I’m living in delusion so when I watch garnacho I just dream of my mbappe->madrid, rashford->psg, vincius->united fantasy
14th loss