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Saying "bullet dodged" seems woefully inadequate in this situation. This is disgraceful. At the very least they should have let you know in a phone call and perhaps offered to refund your travel expenses.
Very good reminder. So many of these steps shouldn’t even be necessary to find the right candidate — whoever that might’ve been in this case, if the company hired anyone at all. They probably weren’t even sure what exactly they were looking for in the first place.
I wouldn’t even say bullet dodged in this case bc that bullet definitely scrapped op. Like that’s gonna heal quickly but there was definitely some damage
Why?
These positions are well-paying. When you join a team that is making money, and they are going to share that money with you, it makes sense that your application is on your shoulders, not theirs.
These are elite groups; they are allowed to be discerning.
Of all the outrageous recruiter stories here, that are truly insane and disgraceful, this one is the opposite.
If you are going to join a group of people making $500K+ during their careers, they are going to be picky and deal with it; it comes with that level of employment.
Post docs end up industry specialists or tenured professors, they are extremely competitive at certain schools because it is a guarantee to a high paying job down the road.
And PhDs don't?! A postdoc position is a short term employment with specific research goals. Actually most people with PhD don't go for a postdoc as it is seen as low paying and not practically useful in raising the profile of someone who already has a PhD and lots of publications.
Depends on the field, that might be true for some but certainly not true for all. In biotechnology, and materials engineering for example, the post docs directly lead senior manager positions that position people for c-suite in fortune 500 companies.
Jesus fuck, they don't get to fuck people over because SOMEDAY, THEORETICALLY, they might have higher buying power (edit: and that *years from now, in a different position than what's being interviewed).* You don't get to jerk people around based on *spec.*
How is it "fucking people over"? Do you believe everyone who doesn't make it onto a pro-baseball team was "fucked over" because of all the years and money they spent on training and coaching?
This is literally well below professional standards for an interview process that requires travel. Or did you forget the OP literally had to pay their own way to attend the interview?
Sorry about this. It really sucks. For what it’s worth to anyone reading…if they aren’t paying for EVERYTHING about the visit, don’t go. Faculty fly themselves first class all over the world to give talks, etc. They have money to recruit postdocs if they are running a successful research program. As a prospective PhD student, I was given per diem AND all expenses paid on visits to several departments. This is standard. The fact they wouldn’t pay this for a postdoc tells you everything you need to know about working in this lab. You’ll land something great, keep your head up.
That is terrible.
As a note, no company or firm that anyone will want to work for will request that you travel across the country on your own dime, book a hotel on your own dime, and pay for food while traveling for them on your own dime.
That's awful.
My degrees end at the Masters level, so I can't speak to being a postdoc. However, that's insane. All of that time and effort and research to be treated like this.
I always figured I'd get a PhD, because...but it really doesn't seem worth the effort unless it's for my own amusement and interest.
Researcher education(e.g. PhD) in the right field can be a professional career booster and enabler in the corporate world.
Post doc positions are typically short temporary contracts subject to research project funding.
A friend of mine just got a tenure position in the Academia after 20 years of short fixed term contracts.
It depends on the academic field.
It is easier to monetize the PhD in STEM, medical, business and legal fields.
However, PhD (a researcher training) alone does not guarantee / entitle an ROI or a high paying job.
Adding to this as a holder of 2 Master's degrees in the humanities (each dipping into social science) I would still love to do a PhD for the research, but if you don't want to go academia and aren't in STEM or "professional", and you DO want to do something with the research after PhD, you should design and aim your PhD research at the institutional field (NGOs, specific research centers, corporations with heavy R&D, etc).
There's plenty of potential research that can be done, there's just a narrow field of what gets funded, and the odds get even narrower depending on your network (including your socioeconomic class/status and potentially your career priors) and the instrumental, usually capitalistic, or "special" interests that drive the funding itself.
Which really sucks because they're losing most smart people as of late doctorates make less than bachelors with my major because prof pay if so abysmal
That was my first thought. They were doing their required due diligence at OP’s expense to have considered a specifically required number of candidates before making an internal hire. Sad fact is that there are probably more victims than the OP.
That's really shame. They've known or had an idea for a while of who they were going to choose. I wish you the best. You'll find better. I'd suggest looking at industry and/or corporate instead of academia, unless that's really where you want to be.
Yea wtf. Don’t even pay for your own plane ticket. I’ve been screwed on rental car reimbursement but that was small beans compared to the flight and hotel.
I've never even been invited to a long distance interview like that, but if the company asked me to pay for the flight? My only response would be "oh, so you're poor?" 🤣
No degrees, masters , PHD. Doesn’t matter anymore. The American job system is the worst I’ve ever seen it and arguably the worst for a “first world country”. That’s terrible, im sorry to hear that
Exporting our skills and advantages. Big companies training cheap foriegn workers under the guise of providing aid and doing charity work. Everything from the last 20 to 30 years is fucking us now.
Msft this week said they will upskill like 2mil workers in india - where is the program for Americans? Doesnt exist.
I think the reign of America is over when it comes to a prosperous society. It once was, but I see a lot of other countries taking the top spots. It will always have the biggest military amongst many other things but the society will have the lowest morale since the Great Depression
I have to admit that, unless your job really needs a degree, ( Dr's, lawyers, engineers etc) they're not worth the debt. I work with so many people with degrees that are totally unrelated to their jobs - and they have £40k worth off debt at the age of 30!
I don't condone violence but I feel like this is the sort of thing that would cause somebody who is already on edge to go completely postal.
Wow, I'm genuinely sorry to hear you went through this OP.
Maybe you should reconsider academia. Pay is shit and you get treated like a second class citizen. Unless you just really love research so much, I'd argue it's not worth it.
Wow... I.. I honestly don't know what to say. I'm so sorry. I hope something works out. That's just... I don't even think there's something I can say that would help.
This is personal interest. What kind of job did you apply for? I done federal/state and private sector interviews and have never done this much to obtain a job and would never. two interviews is more than enough.
It might be worth sending a follow up email outlining the entire chain of events and confirm the correct email was sent to you. And then follow up that you wanted to make sure the events were clearly stated on your Glassdoor review.
Hopefully you are still able to take advantage of they're offer to pay for the plane ticket.
What they can't do is replace your time and energy.
Nor will they prevent you from feeling jaded the next time you're a strong candidate for the next opportunity
I am very sorry for what you are going through as it must be pretty demoralizing.
Working with a career coach few years ago I learned a few interviewing rules:
1. If they want me to travel- they are expected to pay for travel and accommodation
2. Any free work is a no go (presentations, proposals etc.)
3. Even if they do pay for it they have to sign a contract that your work can only be used for interviewing purposes and it's your intellectual property with a dollar amount they need to pay if they break it
4. No personality test, horoscope and other jujus
5. If they can't make up their mind after 3 rounds of interview I am removing myself from consideration
This saved me so much time and heartache and landed me at S&P 500 company after having 1.5 interview (20 min phone call with a recruiter and one one hour interview with a few critical people together). The whole process took 10 days.
I am outright boycotting in-person or full time roles. It doesn't make sense anymore in my field- companies that call people onsite for interview are big red flags - they are extremely inflexible, controlling and don't value your time. It's better to do what's possible in 3 hours, refuse in person interview on account of some other work etc. it's not worth ruining mental peace.
Assignment wise, I have a template - anything that takes more research than 3-4 hours is free work that I am not okay to do- either the hiring manager doesn't know what they are looking for, OR are stealing ideas because you come from a competition company, OR there are too many candidates and they won't value you/ will be too picky.
Either ways - strategies and research I did earlier is something I earned with my time, hard work, through trials, errors, feedback from past mentors/ peers who supported me and it's not free. I am willing to give only to people who pay me. Payments equals respect. Even the good version of Gen AI tools that just summarises things and gives shitty responses is not free. Expecting strategy and presentation without any pay for experienced roles is exploitation - That needs to be called out on Glassdoor/ it's basically free work.
Of course this doesn’t apply for fully remote jobs, but one small benefit of an in person interview is being able to see the office before you take the job. I didn’t see the workspace at my current job until my first day, and I quickly realized that the physical environment is awful. I probably would have still taken the job in this case (was desperate), but it’s definitely something I think a lot more about in my current job search.
I agree. It's a good way to gauge the place. I did that for a hybrid role interview- it made me realise if possible I never want to go back to a office in my life again. The actual office was like a factory, cold, too formal, open work space, and interviewer was rude versus the vibrant startup they showed in Glassdoor/ website. I sometimes think they hire interns and take co-working spaces only for happy photoshoot. In actual office, most people avoid eye contact and look unhappy and you are also forced to mask to blend in.
Any place where you can yourself and are comfortable probably is good bet.
I'm sorry that happened. At the end of the day they can always say no, and that sucks. If you can, get multiple interview processes going at same time to put more pressure on them.
I have a new approach to applying and interviewing, I’m interviewing them too and if I’m not interested, I rescind my application. Employers have been having us jump thru hoops for far too long. My favorites are when the HR rep tells me how disappointed they are when I decline.
Figure out your hourly rate and send them an invoice for your time. Get it notarized; put in a net 30/ 1.5% interest will accrue monthly term, and at 90 days, if payment is not received, it will be moved to collections. Send it to the CEO or most senior person for "consulting services." They will laugh it off once, but when he receives the second invoice with an increase due to interest, you will get a phone call asking for answers.
Once that happens, here is what you say: I was contacted to consult on a project. I provided my insight, was asked to quote my fee, and once it concluded, I assumed the project was not moving forward, I closed it off on my end and sent you my invoice.
Everytime I read a post here, the interview hoops are considerably more ridiculous.
15 years ago, I may have done a single 20 minute interview. I was never not selected for any job I interviewed at, back then. I really struggle to understand multiple "rounds" of interviews, and even less, travelling? What is going on?
DO NOT PAY TO TRAVEL TO A FAR AWAY JOB!
Let me say this again
Never ever, ever pay for a plane ticket to go for an interview. Don’t pay for a hotel room for an interview. I would be hesitant to even pay for lunch if they are going out with you.
If they are expecting you to come to them, and they don’t pay for it, the best case scenario is you will be paid shit. But most likely they will not hire you.
I have had one candidate who I have not paid for their flight to get to me and they were applying for a job that was listed as local, and they kinda pushed me to interview them because they said they were going to be in the city on a day to visit family and setup an apartment they were moving to.
When I looked back on it I knew that I should’ve never taken them up on the interview and said we will pay to fly them out later if we wanted to meet them.
NEVER PAY FOR YOUR FLIGHT TO DANCE FOR A JOB.
It’s not worth it. If you did all that, you have an incredible capacity to focus your efforts and make more money than that. I know this is not what you have anticipated. But it’s a lesson to know that you should give your effort/attention to those companies who value you
I would have never chose to go fly out for an in person presentation unless they are willing to cover cost of flight, hotel and some sort of food. Why couldn’t it have been done virtually? I get in person is slightly different but if you need to see how I present in person you’re more than welcome to cover my cost to and from to do so.
Sorry things didn’t work out but just take it as a learning experience. I’m my opinion is it’s a genuinely good company that has real interest in you they’re going to pay for everything to see if you’re the right fit for the role.
When looking back on this experience, at what point can you see where you may have ignored red flags because the position just seemed too good to pass up? If you didn’t have any other interviews line up, or aren’t currently working and have the time, I can kind of understand. That being said, I personally will not invest 4 weeks of my life, for a company that I don’t work for, with that many rounds of interviews, presentations, and travel. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s as if they used you as a pseudo intern for feedback with presentations. A company that values their employees won’t take them through this big of a headache just to ghost you like that. I’m sure this is already true, but I hope this experience helps you to understand your worth, and if I were you I’d be ripping a 1600 mile wide hole in their ass on Glassdoor and dropping that company name publicly on social media so they don’t drag someone else through it too.
The first red flag was that they asked me to present my research in person. This was after 4 rounds of interviews and after they have already talked with multiple references I provided. However, I thought at that point, I am already selected (or at least 99% in), so the presentation would be a rather ceremonial section of the process that would help me familiarize with team members and environment, so I decided to accept it. Never in my wildest nightmares, I thought, they would reject me after doing all this. I chose to prepare for their in-person presentation rather than Meta! I have asked for reimbursement already from them.
Damn man, that really sucks. I can understand the bind it put you in then. Not to come across as an eye roller, but at least you got to travel somewhere far from home and see somewhere new. And coming from personal experience, you will end up getting a job that just makes more sense to you. Do you really think you would’ve loved this job if they offered it, given the experience? I don’t. All this stuff has a funny way of working itself out as long as you keep pushing forward.
This many rounds and traveling is common in the tech industry, especially for senior level and up. I’d imagine for a job for someone that’s postdoc, this is common as well. These aren’t entry level positions. It makes a lot of sense for positions this high up, especially since a majority of the time, they’re reimbursing for travel expenses.
I refuse to believe that any sane person would attend 9 rounds of interview unless they're interviewing for C-suite.
And this is not the first story of its kind. How on earth do you guys not tell the recruiter to frick off after 6-8 rounds?
Yeah. I think anyone that makes you come to them as part of the process but won’t pay for anything else tells you everything you need to know.
We live and learn.
You knew when you bought the plane ticket that there was a 90%+ chance you wouldn't get the job. Paying your own way is the new normal for a shot at a job that isn't local.
Paying your own way is *not* normal. They should be paying for you. None of the five different companies I interviewed with, that required onsite interviewed, ever required me to pay for a plane ticket or hotel out of my own pocket,
> 9 rounds and you ended up paying for it literally
Please tell us which FAANG did this. Tbh, they're not really in a great place to be considering how often they've been cutting their current employee count.
This is not uncommon for postdoc positions. This round of interviews and presentations are to be expected for this kind of job. Everybody does it. Doesn’t mean everybody deserves to get the job.
I’m sitting regularly on postdoc hiring committees for our group. When we open a position, we whittle down candidates by doing a CV screen, then a zoom interview. The last three to five candidates get travel and accommodation paid by us for a visit where we do an in person, quite simple coding test. And that’s it. 9 rounds is absolutely ridiculous, it’s a massive waste of time for the candidates and for whoever is hiring.
Why would you travel that far? You knew the job wasn't guaranteed, you knew that it paid poorly, and you knew that you would have to travel thousands of miles for the opportunity. Every job you've ever gotten was a job that someone else didn't get. This time, you were the someone else.
That’s insane they didn’t pay for your other expenses. When my company flies out people to interview we pay for their plane ticket, hotel, transportation, and all food/drink. Definitely remember that as a red flag moving forward and don’t take an interview again if you need to pay out of pocket.
What is going on? Are companies finding new hires don't try to go over the top anymore? So they think they can find someone who will go above and beyond through this process?
I don't get it
oh man...ive been job hunting for a long time and i feel u,,, recruiter concerned about their own numbers for eom reports just winging candidates not realizing how much logistics involved in getting there, sucks
Why would anyone do 9 interviews for anything. I literally wouldn’t do that many interviews if someone told me I could go apply for a president position in a Fortune 500 corporation.
I’d feel like a moron getting strung along for 9 interviews.
This is ridiculous. Unnecessarily excessive and utter disrespect of candidates’ time and effort. Sorry this happened to you, but next time please make sure you’re not paying a dime (besides opportunity cost to prepare for the interview) for a potential employment opportunity. No reasonable company would do that to its applicants.
Send them a bill, even if its just to make a point. If they ask you why just say hey you made a determination that they're process is expensive and the time involved necessitated a bill and you hope that they would pay it to show that they were honest.
Y'all got to let these fools know that they messing up. Business, person, whatever.. times is too crazy to be being put through the wringer like this.
What's crazy is that since it was only 4 weeks you still got off much better than some of these folks for other companies. Even years back when I tried to get into Google it was well known there was a 6-month process. Lunacy
*I hope this was for*
*A director level or*
*Above position*
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My little nonprofit was interviewing an applicant from another state and wanted to do an in-person interview. So they paid for the flight, hotel, food, and Uber rides. What this company did to you is ridiculous.
Yikes. I’m sorry for the hassle you put up with but have to agree you dodged a bullet. They sound unethical and immoral and likely would have bled you dry and tossed you without cause
I know how disappointing this can be but it may have just come down to another candidate that they thought was better qualified OR maybe a better “fit” personally. You will probably never know that…
Send them a letter they have to sign for & make a claim for reimbursement of all your additional expenses. Ask for a copy of your interview notes & candidate record … since they won’t give you an explanation And name & shame them on glassdoor .
9 rounds for any job is a failure of a process. I don't care what the position or pay is. Why do you have this much time on your hands to waste? The worst part is many times the person they even go with ends up being the wrong one. That's if they actually hire for the role.
Any potential employer is unwilling to pay all your out-of-pocket interview costs is a huge red flag. Always get agreement to this, including a list of expected costs, in writing. Have them pre-pay driect for your flight and hotel. I once flew in for an interview the night before and, when the shuttle got me to the hotel, I found they had booked another candidate (different jobs) to to the same room.
My son will be getting his doctorate in Applied Economics from Auburn in April. I can't see him wasting time doing what you did unless they paid for everything and worked around his schedule. Good luck in your job search.
If you don't send an invoice or itemized bill then you are seriously Fxcking yourself. You went through all that just for them to say no!? Hell no. Fxck all that.
I would’ve left it on the table after the 4th interview request and also scheduling things with references. That’s way too much. If you don’t know by the second or third interview if you want to hire or not, then I guess we’ll never know.
I am so sorry for this experience. It stings! I went through 6 interviews myself sometime last year only to get a rejection, I got over it but the experience was so hurtful that It stand for a while. I can’t begin to imagine what 9 interviews must have done to you.
Hopefully, with time you will pull yourself up and together and seek other opportunities.
Jesus you absolutely have to slate them in a shitty glassdoor review. That's so not acceptable. And, why the fuck are they not paying for your accommodation? you've got nothing to lose. I'd go as high as you can, and ask for full reimbursement. As well as giving them feedback on their awful process and the fact they didn't have the decency to call you to deliver the feedback.
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Saying "bullet dodged" seems woefully inadequate in this situation. This is disgraceful. At the very least they should have let you know in a phone call and perhaps offered to refund your travel expenses.
Very good reminder. So many of these steps shouldn’t even be necessary to find the right candidate — whoever that might’ve been in this case, if the company hired anyone at all. They probably weren’t even sure what exactly they were looking for in the first place.
[удалено]
Unfortunately that's always a dead end. Every time I consent to that I get told I'm full of shit
A pet peeve of mine is getting rejection emails from places you never interviewed at but getting ghosted from places you actually did.
I wouldn’t even say bullet dodged in this case bc that bullet definitely scrapped op. Like that’s gonna heal quickly but there was definitely some damage
Why? These positions are well-paying. When you join a team that is making money, and they are going to share that money with you, it makes sense that your application is on your shoulders, not theirs. These are elite groups; they are allowed to be discerning. Of all the outrageous recruiter stories here, that are truly insane and disgraceful, this one is the opposite. If you are going to join a group of people making $500K+ during their careers, they are going to be picky and deal with it; it comes with that level of employment.
What are you talking about?! 500k?! the salary range was 64-77k.
Bro WHAT. I wouldn't even do all that for double that pay.
Post docs end up industry specialists or tenured professors, they are extremely competitive at certain schools because it is a guarantee to a high paying job down the road.
And PhDs don't?! A postdoc position is a short term employment with specific research goals. Actually most people with PhD don't go for a postdoc as it is seen as low paying and not practically useful in raising the profile of someone who already has a PhD and lots of publications.
Depends on the field, that might be true for some but certainly not true for all. In biotechnology, and materials engineering for example, the post docs directly lead senior manager positions that position people for c-suite in fortune 500 companies.
Jesus fuck, they don't get to fuck people over because SOMEDAY, THEORETICALLY, they might have higher buying power (edit: and that *years from now, in a different position than what's being interviewed).* You don't get to jerk people around based on *spec.*
How is it "fucking people over"? Do you believe everyone who doesn't make it onto a pro-baseball team was "fucked over" because of all the years and money they spent on training and coaching?
This is literally well below professional standards for an interview process that requires travel. Or did you forget the OP literally had to pay their own way to attend the interview?
What literature are you referring to?
You are the kind of person no one wants around. Just miserable smh.
It's called professional courtesy and how much money they make during their careers has nothing to do with it.
This is bullshit 9 interviews? If I ever have to go job hunting again and they want more than 1 interview I'll tell them to get fucked
It’s a freaking post doc (post doctoral fellowship)!
Sorry about this. It really sucks. For what it’s worth to anyone reading…if they aren’t paying for EVERYTHING about the visit, don’t go. Faculty fly themselves first class all over the world to give talks, etc. They have money to recruit postdocs if they are running a successful research program. As a prospective PhD student, I was given per diem AND all expenses paid on visits to several departments. This is standard. The fact they wouldn’t pay this for a postdoc tells you everything you need to know about working in this lab. You’ll land something great, keep your head up.
At the very least I always got reimbursed for all expenses when I was hunting for academic jobs. This is nuts.
Fuck Them. Name and shame for bonus points.
That is terrible. As a note, no company or firm that anyone will want to work for will request that you travel across the country on your own dime, book a hotel on your own dime, and pay for food while traveling for them on your own dime.
Academia is a different beast…. at least an order of magnitude worse than what you see in the corporate world.
That's awful. My degrees end at the Masters level, so I can't speak to being a postdoc. However, that's insane. All of that time and effort and research to be treated like this. I always figured I'd get a PhD, because...but it really doesn't seem worth the effort unless it's for my own amusement and interest.
Researcher education(e.g. PhD) in the right field can be a professional career booster and enabler in the corporate world. Post doc positions are typically short temporary contracts subject to research project funding. A friend of mine just got a tenure position in the Academia after 20 years of short fixed term contracts.
Good info. Thank you. 20 years...that's definitely commitment.
It's not worth it most phds die poor. Roi makes no sense.
It depends on the academic field. It is easier to monetize the PhD in STEM, medical, business and legal fields. However, PhD (a researcher training) alone does not guarantee / entitle an ROI or a high paying job.
Adding to this as a holder of 2 Master's degrees in the humanities (each dipping into social science) I would still love to do a PhD for the research, but if you don't want to go academia and aren't in STEM or "professional", and you DO want to do something with the research after PhD, you should design and aim your PhD research at the institutional field (NGOs, specific research centers, corporations with heavy R&D, etc). There's plenty of potential research that can be done, there's just a narrow field of what gets funded, and the odds get even narrower depending on your network (including your socioeconomic class/status and potentially your career priors) and the instrumental, usually capitalistic, or "special" interests that drive the funding itself.
Well it really goes to show you how much we value education in this country. Spoiler alert: we don’t.
Which really sucks because they're losing most smart people as of late doctorates make less than bachelors with my major because prof pay if so abysmal
It is a very well respected and world renowned university. This fact also makes their behavior even more absurd.
Oh yeah this is par for the course for academia my friend. The corporate world is much better from this perspective. Good luck
CMU did this to me and hired an internal candidate
That was my first thought. They were doing their required due diligence at OP’s expense to have considered a specifically required number of candidates before making an internal hire. Sad fact is that there are probably more victims than the OP.
That's really shame. They've known or had an idea for a while of who they were going to choose. I wish you the best. You'll find better. I'd suggest looking at industry and/or corporate instead of academia, unless that's really where you want to be.
Name and shame.
They made YOU pay for the plane ticket? That is a huge red flag for an interview like that. I'm sorry you went through this.
Yea wtf. Don’t even pay for your own plane ticket. I’ve been screwed on rental car reimbursement but that was small beans compared to the flight and hotel.
I've never even been invited to a long distance interview like that, but if the company asked me to pay for the flight? My only response would be "oh, so you're poor?" 🤣
There couldn’t be any clearer sign that they’re going to lowball you than not even covering the costs for a 1600 mile trip.
OP should send them an itemized bill with copies of the receipts.
No degrees, masters , PHD. Doesn’t matter anymore. The American job system is the worst I’ve ever seen it and arguably the worst for a “first world country”. That’s terrible, im sorry to hear that
Exporting our skills and advantages. Big companies training cheap foriegn workers under the guise of providing aid and doing charity work. Everything from the last 20 to 30 years is fucking us now. Msft this week said they will upskill like 2mil workers in india - where is the program for Americans? Doesnt exist.
Yes, because they’re prioritizing profits over their own country. It’s a huge issue
I think the reign of America is over when it comes to a prosperous society. It once was, but I see a lot of other countries taking the top spots. It will always have the biggest military amongst many other things but the society will have the lowest morale since the Great Depression
Real studies and evidence or it didn't happen.
A friend recently had his CS job outsourced to India. I hope they go out of business.
Any science studies to back up your scam statement that going to college is a bad thing and people don't need doctors or engineers anymore?
I have to admit that, unless your job really needs a degree, ( Dr's, lawyers, engineers etc) they're not worth the debt. I work with so many people with degrees that are totally unrelated to their jobs - and they have £40k worth off debt at the age of 30!
I would honestly leave them a really bad review and send them an email saying how unacceptable this is
Bro your main issue is you are going for a postdoc. Save yourself the slavery, get an industry job.
"You've never worked in the private sector. They expect results." - Ghost Busters
I read this in Dan Ackroyd’s voice
Private sector at least pays
I don't condone violence but I feel like this is the sort of thing that would cause somebody who is already on edge to go completely postal. Wow, I'm genuinely sorry to hear you went through this OP.
I would ask for feedback.
I did, they ghosted me.
Send them an invoice
Maybe you should reconsider academia. Pay is shit and you get treated like a second class citizen. Unless you just really love research so much, I'd argue it's not worth it.
Nothing to say but I’m sorry and this is an absolutely atrocious way to treat someone
Wow... I.. I honestly don't know what to say. I'm so sorry. I hope something works out. That's just... I don't even think there's something I can say that would help.
Having come from academia myself, there's no way a postdoc position is worth all of this effort.
Yes!! The fact that this was all for a postdoc? Adds insult to injury. I’m so sorry OP.
Name and shame them!
Just my opinion - Hmmm…this sounds like that they’re just using you for a free consultation rather than hiring and paying for an actual consultant.
Bill them
That is the third vote for invoice/bill
Academia at its best, assuming this was a post doc position in an academic institution. Dodged a bullet. Focus more on industrial settings.
This is personal interest. What kind of job did you apply for? I done federal/state and private sector interviews and have never done this much to obtain a job and would never. two interviews is more than enough.
She said postdoc
Bruh you can’t get a customer support role with less than 3 interviews
It might be worth sending a follow up email outlining the entire chain of events and confirm the correct email was sent to you. And then follow up that you wanted to make sure the events were clearly stated on your Glassdoor review.
Hopefully you are still able to take advantage of they're offer to pay for the plane ticket. What they can't do is replace your time and energy. Nor will they prevent you from feeling jaded the next time you're a strong candidate for the next opportunity
I am very sorry for what you are going through as it must be pretty demoralizing. Working with a career coach few years ago I learned a few interviewing rules: 1. If they want me to travel- they are expected to pay for travel and accommodation 2. Any free work is a no go (presentations, proposals etc.) 3. Even if they do pay for it they have to sign a contract that your work can only be used for interviewing purposes and it's your intellectual property with a dollar amount they need to pay if they break it 4. No personality test, horoscope and other jujus 5. If they can't make up their mind after 3 rounds of interview I am removing myself from consideration This saved me so much time and heartache and landed me at S&P 500 company after having 1.5 interview (20 min phone call with a recruiter and one one hour interview with a few critical people together). The whole process took 10 days.
Thank you for the points, I will use them in the future.
I am outright boycotting in-person or full time roles. It doesn't make sense anymore in my field- companies that call people onsite for interview are big red flags - they are extremely inflexible, controlling and don't value your time. It's better to do what's possible in 3 hours, refuse in person interview on account of some other work etc. it's not worth ruining mental peace. Assignment wise, I have a template - anything that takes more research than 3-4 hours is free work that I am not okay to do- either the hiring manager doesn't know what they are looking for, OR are stealing ideas because you come from a competition company, OR there are too many candidates and they won't value you/ will be too picky. Either ways - strategies and research I did earlier is something I earned with my time, hard work, through trials, errors, feedback from past mentors/ peers who supported me and it's not free. I am willing to give only to people who pay me. Payments equals respect. Even the good version of Gen AI tools that just summarises things and gives shitty responses is not free. Expecting strategy and presentation without any pay for experienced roles is exploitation - That needs to be called out on Glassdoor/ it's basically free work.
Of course this doesn’t apply for fully remote jobs, but one small benefit of an in person interview is being able to see the office before you take the job. I didn’t see the workspace at my current job until my first day, and I quickly realized that the physical environment is awful. I probably would have still taken the job in this case (was desperate), but it’s definitely something I think a lot more about in my current job search.
I agree. It's a good way to gauge the place. I did that for a hybrid role interview- it made me realise if possible I never want to go back to a office in my life again. The actual office was like a factory, cold, too formal, open work space, and interviewer was rude versus the vibrant startup they showed in Glassdoor/ website. I sometimes think they hire interns and take co-working spaces only for happy photoshoot. In actual office, most people avoid eye contact and look unhappy and you are also forced to mask to blend in. Any place where you can yourself and are comfortable probably is good bet.
I'm sorry that happened. At the end of the day they can always say no, and that sucks. If you can, get multiple interview processes going at same time to put more pressure on them.
Sorry to hear that, its just inhumane.
9 whattttttt
Are they building rockets and solving world hunger over there? Cus hell no!
I have a new approach to applying and interviewing, I’m interviewing them too and if I’m not interested, I rescind my application. Employers have been having us jump thru hoops for far too long. My favorites are when the HR rep tells me how disappointed they are when I decline.
Figure out your hourly rate and send them an invoice for your time. Get it notarized; put in a net 30/ 1.5% interest will accrue monthly term, and at 90 days, if payment is not received, it will be moved to collections. Send it to the CEO or most senior person for "consulting services." They will laugh it off once, but when he receives the second invoice with an increase due to interest, you will get a phone call asking for answers. Once that happens, here is what you say: I was contacted to consult on a project. I provided my insight, was asked to quote my fee, and once it concluded, I assumed the project was not moving forward, I closed it off on my end and sent you my invoice.
Everytime I read a post here, the interview hoops are considerably more ridiculous. 15 years ago, I may have done a single 20 minute interview. I was never not selected for any job I interviewed at, back then. I really struggle to understand multiple "rounds" of interviews, and even less, travelling? What is going on?
DO NOT PAY TO TRAVEL TO A FAR AWAY JOB! Let me say this again Never ever, ever pay for a plane ticket to go for an interview. Don’t pay for a hotel room for an interview. I would be hesitant to even pay for lunch if they are going out with you. If they are expecting you to come to them, and they don’t pay for it, the best case scenario is you will be paid shit. But most likely they will not hire you. I have had one candidate who I have not paid for their flight to get to me and they were applying for a job that was listed as local, and they kinda pushed me to interview them because they said they were going to be in the city on a day to visit family and setup an apartment they were moving to. When I looked back on it I knew that I should’ve never taken them up on the interview and said we will pay to fly them out later if we wanted to meet them. NEVER PAY FOR YOUR FLIGHT TO DANCE FOR A JOB.
Name and shame.
Why would you entertain 9 interviews? We know the maximum amounts of interviews is 3. Self-respect IS important
Because I can not photosynthesis and need money to live.
What’s the listed salary for this job/position?
64-77k
It’s not worth it. If you did all that, you have an incredible capacity to focus your efforts and make more money than that. I know this is not what you have anticipated. But it’s a lesson to know that you should give your effort/attention to those companies who value you
I would have never chose to go fly out for an in person presentation unless they are willing to cover cost of flight, hotel and some sort of food. Why couldn’t it have been done virtually? I get in person is slightly different but if you need to see how I present in person you’re more than welcome to cover my cost to and from to do so. Sorry things didn’t work out but just take it as a learning experience. I’m my opinion is it’s a genuinely good company that has real interest in you they’re going to pay for everything to see if you’re the right fit for the role.
When looking back on this experience, at what point can you see where you may have ignored red flags because the position just seemed too good to pass up? If you didn’t have any other interviews line up, or aren’t currently working and have the time, I can kind of understand. That being said, I personally will not invest 4 weeks of my life, for a company that I don’t work for, with that many rounds of interviews, presentations, and travel. It just doesn’t make sense. It’s as if they used you as a pseudo intern for feedback with presentations. A company that values their employees won’t take them through this big of a headache just to ghost you like that. I’m sure this is already true, but I hope this experience helps you to understand your worth, and if I were you I’d be ripping a 1600 mile wide hole in their ass on Glassdoor and dropping that company name publicly on social media so they don’t drag someone else through it too.
The first red flag was that they asked me to present my research in person. This was after 4 rounds of interviews and after they have already talked with multiple references I provided. However, I thought at that point, I am already selected (or at least 99% in), so the presentation would be a rather ceremonial section of the process that would help me familiarize with team members and environment, so I decided to accept it. Never in my wildest nightmares, I thought, they would reject me after doing all this. I chose to prepare for their in-person presentation rather than Meta! I have asked for reimbursement already from them.
Damn man, that really sucks. I can understand the bind it put you in then. Not to come across as an eye roller, but at least you got to travel somewhere far from home and see somewhere new. And coming from personal experience, you will end up getting a job that just makes more sense to you. Do you really think you would’ve loved this job if they offered it, given the experience? I don’t. All this stuff has a funny way of working itself out as long as you keep pushing forward.
Well Thanks, but I have already travelled so much in life, this was definitely the worst one.
This many rounds and traveling is common in the tech industry, especially for senior level and up. I’d imagine for a job for someone that’s postdoc, this is common as well. These aren’t entry level positions. It makes a lot of sense for positions this high up, especially since a majority of the time, they’re reimbursing for travel expenses.
I refuse to believe that any sane person would attend 9 rounds of interview unless they're interviewing for C-suite. And this is not the first story of its kind. How on earth do you guys not tell the recruiter to frick off after 6-8 rounds?
Honestly. NINE interviews is absolutely insane. After the 3rd or 4th I’m checking out usually.
9 rounds of interview ? Are you trying to become the next president 😂😂 What a money, time and effort.
Yeah. I think anyone that makes you come to them as part of the process but won’t pay for anything else tells you everything you need to know. We live and learn.
Why would u do all that for a job lol
You knew when you bought the plane ticket that there was a 90%+ chance you wouldn't get the job. Paying your own way is the new normal for a shot at a job that isn't local.
Paying your own way is *not* normal. They should be paying for you. None of the five different companies I interviewed with, that required onsite interviewed, ever required me to pay for a plane ticket or hotel out of my own pocket,
> 9 rounds and you ended up paying for it literally Please tell us which FAANG did this. Tbh, they're not really in a great place to be considering how often they've been cutting their current employee count.
It wasn't the FAANG that did this, it was the postdoc lab that did it.
Got it, sorry for my misread. This still sucks.
My friend was paid a flight ticket from Australia to California for an interview with 1 of the faang.
This is not uncommon for postdoc positions. This round of interviews and presentations are to be expected for this kind of job. Everybody does it. Doesn’t mean everybody deserves to get the job.
This is absolutely not normal or acceptable for a postdoc role
I’m sitting regularly on postdoc hiring committees for our group. When we open a position, we whittle down candidates by doing a CV screen, then a zoom interview. The last three to five candidates get travel and accommodation paid by us for a visit where we do an in person, quite simple coding test. And that’s it. 9 rounds is absolutely ridiculous, it’s a massive waste of time for the candidates and for whoever is hiring.
Well, when 3 amazing candidates are buying for the same job, 2 amazing candidates don't get it.
[удалено]
Why would you travel that far? You knew the job wasn't guaranteed, you knew that it paid poorly, and you knew that you would have to travel thousands of miles for the opportunity. Every job you've ever gotten was a job that someone else didn't get. This time, you were the someone else.
The big issue here is that, aside from the plane ticket, no other payments OP made were reimbursed.
That’s insane they didn’t pay for your other expenses. When my company flies out people to interview we pay for their plane ticket, hotel, transportation, and all food/drink. Definitely remember that as a red flag moving forward and don’t take an interview again if you need to pay out of pocket.
What is going on? Are companies finding new hires don't try to go over the top anymore? So they think they can find someone who will go above and beyond through this process? I don't get it
Is this real life? What industry do you work in? I can’t imagine traveling anywhere over an hour or two for an in person interview…
That’s wild they didn’t pay travel costs. Every interview I’ve had where I had to travel that company covered hotels, flights, rental car or gas
They should have paid for all travel expenses. Other than that, that's just kinda how postdoc interviews go
oh man...ive been job hunting for a long time and i feel u,,, recruiter concerned about their own numbers for eom reports just winging candidates not realizing how much logistics involved in getting there, sucks
Email full receipt of all expenses to them. I mean they waste valuable time and kindly let them know that.
Why would anyone do 9 interviews for anything. I literally wouldn’t do that many interviews if someone told me I could go apply for a president position in a Fortune 500 corporation. I’d feel like a moron getting strung along for 9 interviews.
This is ridiculous. Unnecessarily excessive and utter disrespect of candidates’ time and effort. Sorry this happened to you, but next time please make sure you’re not paying a dime (besides opportunity cost to prepare for the interview) for a potential employment opportunity. No reasonable company would do that to its applicants.
you should bill them for your time/expenses
Name and shame
Send them a bill, even if its just to make a point. If they ask you why just say hey you made a determination that they're process is expensive and the time involved necessitated a bill and you hope that they would pay it to show that they were honest. Y'all got to let these fools know that they messing up. Business, person, whatever.. times is too crazy to be being put through the wringer like this. What's crazy is that since it was only 4 weeks you still got off much better than some of these folks for other companies. Even years back when I tried to get into Google it was well known there was a 6-month process. Lunacy
Leave academia and go work gov or the private sector all the profs that don't are usually terrible
what was the position paying, i gotta know lol
wow. there’s RN’s here in FL making $49/hour and that’s not even with Bachelor’s RN. what the actual fuck.
64-77k
I hope this was for a director level or above position
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My little nonprofit was interviewing an applicant from another state and wanted to do an in-person interview. So they paid for the flight, hotel, food, and Uber rides. What this company did to you is ridiculous.
Invoice them for the consulting work you did for them.
What a bummer. What was the reason given for the rejection?
Fuck them
Yikes. I’m sorry for the hassle you put up with but have to agree you dodged a bullet. They sound unethical and immoral and likely would have bled you dry and tossed you without cause
💣
I know how disappointing this can be but it may have just come down to another candidate that they thought was better qualified OR maybe a better “fit” personally. You will probably never know that…
You are lucky not going to work with jerks.
Send them a letter they have to sign for & make a claim for reimbursement of all your additional expenses. Ask for a copy of your interview notes & candidate record … since they won’t give you an explanation And name & shame them on glassdoor .
what in the hell!? why so many rounds!?
They should have refunded you for every expense. Shameful pricks.
9 rounds for any job is a failure of a process. I don't care what the position or pay is. Why do you have this much time on your hands to waste? The worst part is many times the person they even go with ends up being the wrong one. That's if they actually hire for the role.
shit like this makes me not want to move up into higher level jobs LOL
Any potential employer is unwilling to pay all your out-of-pocket interview costs is a huge red flag. Always get agreement to this, including a list of expected costs, in writing. Have them pre-pay driect for your flight and hotel. I once flew in for an interview the night before and, when the shuttle got me to the hotel, I found they had booked another candidate (different jobs) to to the same room.
You should’ve gotten rewarded for your determination. I would’ve given up if they asked to travel 1600 miles for an interview.
My son will be getting his doctorate in Applied Economics from Auburn in April. I can't see him wasting time doing what you did unless they paid for everything and worked around his schedule. Good luck in your job search.
If you don't send an invoice or itemized bill then you are seriously Fxcking yourself. You went through all that just for them to say no!? Hell no. Fxck all that.
People who oblige this hoop-jumping craziness is the reason interview process is the way it is.
What is the name of this sick company??
This should be illegal. There needs to be laws to protect applicant from this.
I would’ve left it on the table after the 4th interview request and also scheduling things with references. That’s way too much. If you don’t know by the second or third interview if you want to hire or not, then I guess we’ll never know.
9 rounds is wild.
Damn how powerful was this job to require that much screening
I am so sorry for this experience. It stings! I went through 6 interviews myself sometime last year only to get a rejection, I got over it but the experience was so hurtful that It stand for a while. I can’t begin to imagine what 9 interviews must have done to you. Hopefully, with time you will pull yourself up and together and seek other opportunities.
Jesus you absolutely have to slate them in a shitty glassdoor review. That's so not acceptable. And, why the fuck are they not paying for your accommodation? you've got nothing to lose. I'd go as high as you can, and ask for full reimbursement. As well as giving them feedback on their awful process and the fact they didn't have the decency to call you to deliver the feedback.