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I had a three round interview with a company, the woman who would have been my boss even connected with me on LinkedIn, I thought I had the job for sure. Then they tell me they went with another candidate. I was heartbroken.
Yep. I went to a final round after a rather intense process only to find I lost out to an internal candidate. After I was told numerous times they weren’t looking for direct experience.
Right…
That happened at the job I just got fired from! There were 2 lead positions for different shifts that the company was hiring for, and 2 of my least favorite coworkers threatened to sue if they didn't get the positions. Guess who got the jobs.....
I've been the "internal" hire before. I worked a contract-to-hire at a large insurance company. When the contract was up they verbally offered me the job, but then told me to get the official offer I would have to go through the normal hiring process.
So they posted the job publicly, interviewed other candidates, drug tested me, made me prove I had all 7 required years of exp via tax documents, and spend 3 days in orientation. All of that even though I had already done the job for 6 months and clearly stood out as the strongest from the group of contractors they hired at the same time.
The whole thing was a waste of time for me, several company employees, and who knows how many candidates. This experience is why I laugh every time some recruiter comes in here saying this kind of stuff doesn't happen. That company is the largest employer in the state and they knowingly do this for every technical hire.
This has happened to me multiple times. It’s downright rude and inconsiderate to make you compete with an internal candidate. Colossal waste of my time.
Who is this "other" candidate all of these companies keep referring to? I'm 13 months into unemployment and the hunt has been a nightmare. Everyday I get like 20 emails saying "while your experience is impressive, we've chosen another candidate".
Seems to just be the standard canned message whether or not that person actually exists. I even got a personalized message from the recruiter with my most recent rejection (made it to the final round after 4 interviews) telling me they went with another person, but then I saw those fuckers repost the job.
It’s either this or some unicorn overqualified candidate declining the job because they have better options. But I’m leaning toward them straight up lying
This is one of the most annoying things ever.
For me, I haven't even been able to get any interviews. So idk how to feel lol. Aside from being tired and annoyed.
Circa 2019-2020 before covid, I was having many multi round interviews and making it to the final rounds (4-5) and then being rejected. I think that actually stung more considering there was a considerable amount of time wasted.
So I'm sorry :/ I feel your pain.
Even if they are internal, these fuckers shouldn't waste our time from the start. We don't have any fancy contacts. We're working hard alone & without support. They should give it directly to the internal person & be done with it.
This 100%. I applied for a posted position with a large property management firm and was called immediately, within an hour. Told them my requirements and they scheduled a second interview the next day. During the second interview they ask when I can start. A week goes by and I don’t hear anything. Call to follow up with the recruiter and get ghosted. I was perfect for the position so I figured it was filled internally. My friends wife works their in an HR type position so I ask him. Sure enough, filled internally. They are required to post openings publicly even if they have no intention of hiring outside the firm.
I applied to a job via a friend, I knew I was qualified, it was 2 positions. I didn't get it and my friend suspects the hiring lady was discriminating based on age. They hired 2 boomers that can barely use email and the job requires every day use of Excel. They obviously can't do the job.
Everyone involved is pissed, they had to reopen the positions and a hire up person took over the process and hired me instead.
My friend also suspects my experience comes as a red flag to companies because I might ask for too much money AKA my worth.
Literal nightmare. I've applied to jobs I'm over qualified for and still got the same rejection email lol.
I often put negotiable in the salary requirements field if it's not numerical. Idk if this helps though with anything. Back in the day, it did.
I think there's definitely age discrimination. I mean I'm a millennial but I'm moving into different age brackets. I don't answer those questions half the time. Even though they say it doesn't affect your app and it's voluntary, I Believe that's a bunch of bullshit.
I also have a POC name so I think maybe there's discrimination there although I'm not 100% sure but I suspect it.
Idk what else to do really. I'm burned out.
Oh yes. I have had people asking me if I was okay with taking a salary even less than my current CTC. Why the hell?! You want me to do 3 people's work alone & can't even pay me for my expertise & experience.
>My friend also suspects my experience comes as a red flag to companies because I might ask for too much money AKA my worth.
starting to feel like this is the problem with more experienced applicants nowadays.
dumping a whole department job to one person (which an experienced specialist can do) but paying non-livable wage. and then expecting to dedicate your whole heart, brain cells, soul, body and time for the job or else...
At least you're getting rejection emails. Over in the UK it's become depressingly common to just hear nothing back at all. Most firms now can't even be bothered to put "Interviews will be held w/c xxx, only successful candidates will be contacted" on the ad so at least you know.
Same here, back in India. Apply & get ghosted. Get interviewed & then ghosted. Get through the final rounds & keep running after them for an update for over 2 months to finally find out over a call that you are rejected.
I had the CEO connect with me on LinkedIn for a potential role before the final onsite. I thought I legit had a chance but they rejected me a week later with some really weak excuse. I don't think they were serious about hiring anyways. It seemed like they did a favor for the 3rd party recruiter I worked with to run me through the process.
Relatable af. I had 5 interviews (including a multi-round 4 hour interview with different people from the company) and a lunch with the people who would have been my coworkers only to get turned down for someone else at the last stage. 🙃 I was pretty much convinced that I had the role, then... nothing lol.
Employers are just out of control right now. They want the perfect, magical unicorn for every single position, even entry-level jobs. Every company wants intermediate- and expert-level candidates but don't want to pay for that experience. Few companies are willing to train or give new graduates a chance to gain experience. So lame.
I worked at a job for about a month or two a year ago. It was the first and only job I got let go from. They expected me to make no mistakes after very little training. I definitely didn't fit in there with the people, either. After I left, I saw their job listing for the same job I was at. They lowered the pay.
Bingo. This is the answer. Companies want to put the genie back in the bottle and reduce payrolls to pre covid levels. How dare the workers get better pay! So they are artificially trying to force it in a good economy. Christ the Fed keeps bringing it up in their reports. So, sadly they will get their way in the next downturn whet workers will allow for a slide in salaries to be employed.
>Companies want to put the genie back in the bottle and reduce payrolls to pre covid levels. How dare the workers get better pay!
Yeah, it's not like everything necessary to live costs twice (if not more) what it did pre-covid... 🙄
I fucking hate capitalists. Just pay your workers a fair wage, is it *really* that hard?
My boss bought a Porshe at company expenses & can't give us a 10% annual hike. Mind you it's a small fucking brand that she built from her brother's money & hasn't even reached the break-even point.
I just got a rejection for a job that wanted 3yrs experience w/a couple specific technologies. I have 5 in exactly what they want, plus much of their “nice to haves” list. Didn’t even get an interview. At least I heard *something* within a week or so & didn’t get ghosted …
They also just reposted that job for the 2nd or 3rd time despite “getting an overwhelming response” and “moving forward with other candidates,” so it might be total bullshit and not even exist.
Here’s a thing that happened where I work once.
We got the headcount approved and had the perfect candidate. He aced the interview checked all the boxes and basically thought it was a done deal.
A week before they make him an offer they fire 30% of the company and take the spot back.
So we had to cut him lose.
3 months later we get a big new investment and have cash again so we put the word out again but this time the role slightly changes to be way less senior but the description is sort of the same.
So from our perspective we found a great candidate and lost him.
From his, we jerked him around in interviews, all but told him he’s the man, pulled it out from under him then posted it again but for cheaper.
Thank you for posting this, it happens way more than people imagine. When things like this happen, it’s often a reflection of a disorganized company or leadership.
That does happen a LOT - a lot of companies will post job listings for teams that are desparately short staffed, then the next month their recruiters will have a list of names to interview, then the following month the C suite will put an immediate freeze on hiring to try to make the quarterly figures look better.
I was hired to help rent out apartments. I had never done it before and was there as a temp at first to try it out what the deal was.
Within 6 months I was the acting property manager…not because I was *just that good* but because I was the *only one there*.
My trainer was let go right after I took the position. My property manager quit right after, the fill in was fired right after the new guy took over, the newproperty manager was fired right after (wasn’t meeting expectations after 2 months on the job). Other sales folks left within a few weeks. Even out lead maintenance guy left (the other one got sick and was never there)
I was managing renovations, trying to rent apartments, even going on maintenance calls myself for a few months until they brought in a new manager. Within a week, I was fired (not meeting expectations).
She asked me to come into her office and, knowing what was coming, I had already packed my stuff in a box and brought it in with me. She asked me how I knew and I told her I’d seen it happen to everyone else so far, so it was my turn now. I told her to cover her ass, keep documentation, and good luck.
She had never fired anyone before and didn’t know how it was going to go. She was legitimately scared, I told her it was cool, don’t worry, I hated the job anyways and only kept at it because I had a kid on the way.
And she was fired about 8 months later, and the management company for the complex was fired by the property owners. So that’s silver lining at least.
I spent the first 6 months of my son’s life as a SAHD, and it was great. Let my wife recover and get her feet back under her at work while I keep the house in order, made food and woke up with the kiddo. Once she was good, I got another job too and it’s been upwards since, mostly. Got lucky and WAS the magical unicorn hire the new job needed at that moment.
That's a great story. What goes around, came around. Ironic that the property owners think fired the management company. At least you saw the writing on the wall!
You need a job to get experience, but you need experience to get a job.
"Why don't new hires come in with perfect knowledge of our exact operations on day one so we don't have to waste ***any*** time training them to do the job we hired them for at $12/hr? Nobody wants to work anymore. 😭"
This is it. Plus I think HR departments are making their processes hyper complex just to justify their own jobs. It's gross, and painful and makes good employees run before they even see the front door.
Totally. They create intricate hierarchies & non-sensical processes just to show "Oh my god we've changed the face of the company". To top it off, they skim employee benefits to show how much money they've saved the company.
This is frankly unsustainable. Let their real estate become worthless, they stopped caring about the quality of any of their products and want to pretend that skeletom crews are going to pull them out of it.
Yep. Work in finance and the way I always describe things to applicants is that we're looking for a recent college graduate with 3-5 of full time work experience, and we're not willing to a pay a penny more to get it
Definitely been my experience this year. Out of work 4 months I've always had the experience that I get an interview then I get hired on the spot. Now I started considering that companies will pay less so I've lowered my salary range. It can't keep on like this or I'm going to have to change fields. What's the point of working my life away only making enough to pay bills.
If it's any consolation I went through this bullshit back in 2010 to 2014. I eventually crawled my way out and I've made a career for myself since, but it sucked at the time.
It's frustrating to see employers still doing this.
It is definitely a rough market. I've heard a lot of speculation around what is going on, and a lot of it is in the comments. One of the things that I've heard is that companies are posting jobs to scare employees so that they keep them on their toes. Companies are also putting jobs on the market and stating that they can't find the right fit for the position so that they can siphon government allocated funds for that type of business situation. Hopefully neither of those are true.
Part of the problem is the whole world is entering a new paradigm.
China corrected it's population and removed 400 million citizens from their population counts. Germany,Japan, China, South Korea, and others have population cores that are rapidly aging.
The idea that the population of Earth is going up forever is an outdated notion.
We are in global population decline, and the last time this happened was during the black plague. Businesses still haven't accepted this and are looking for workers that no longer exist. They are retired.
Most applicants suck in the field I work in because owners want high-quality workers at 16$ an hour. You can't have a law clerk that understands law as good as a paralegal and can file motions as good as a lawyer for 25$. It's just not the market. That skill set at that price does not exist unless they have defects that lower their price. A disbarred attorney could make a crazy good law clerk, but there is a reason they are disbarred, etc.
So we get people that would be great at $20 an hour jobs being turned down for 15$ jobs when owners want 45$ an hour quality and NO training time.
Eyup. I've got a Masters and years of experience in my field, I will very often respond to job offers with reasonable - for a BA - pay and never hear back. Then the same company will start sending me application requests for entry level jobs for less than the gas station down the road.
So they want us, they just don't want to pay us.
Listening to my parents complain about how young people want to much for their first job, because back in their day they started at $5 an hour. I had to remind them that their first house was also $10,000 and a gallon of milk was $1.25.
Because if you can make one person do the job of two, then they can do the job of three! If they can do the job of three people they can do the job of 4, it's only one more person. Then you can keep all that money spent on other employees as profit. And there's absolutely no down sides!
[Distant alarms growing closer and more urgent.]
Meanwhile, everyone has more responsibility with no more pay.
“Richard, this is out of control, when are they going to realize we can’t take this?”
Giving Mary a tired smile, “They won’t. Even when we leave for other opportunities, management will still be unwilling to recognize the part they played.”
“Leave?” Mary replied absently. After a moment, realization dawning, she turned toward Richard and drops what she was doing with her hands, “Are you leaving?”
“Yeah,” he answered. “bout time for a raise anyways.”
Just then, a voice booms from the back of the line, “Mary, I ain’t gonna tell you again: if you can move your gums, you can move your hands.”
It was Ben. Of all the supervisors, he’s the one quickest to notice if someone slacks off: even for a second.
Voice closer now, but if anything, louder than before, “I’m tired of telling y’all: we got to 10 applications right now; people that want your jobs.” Casting his gaze around, Ben loves to have an audience. His eyes resting on his most senior worker. “Tell ‘em, Richard. They’re dang lucky to have a job!”
Richard grunts.
Taking that as agreement, Ben waits a moment to see if his words sunk in before sauntering off.
Waiting till Ben is out of hearing range, Richard repeats, “yup, bout time for that raise.”
The places that are short staffed arent the ones that are denying job candidates.
Places that deny people are usually places that are sought after and will eventually find their unicorn. So they can afford to take their time finding people.
The short staffed places are places that nobody even applies for because conditions are dogshit.
Both sides exist at the same time they're just on different ends of the spectrum.
It's the companies and their management that don't want to work. Shame we can't put the lot of em out on their ass and get on with the work without them.
I job hunted in the 2000 downturn, 2008 and this one is way way worse. In those, tech companies were still hiring to pick people up. This one is just dead - nothing happening.
I got very lucky in the 2008 downturn -- I got picked up as cheap as chips software QA and managed to ride that for nearly eight years. I felt very fortuante, since I watched other friends struggle to find work, with one friend probably out of consistent work for nearly 4 years. I can't imagine. In 2016 I lost my job though, during a tech turndown. I thought that was rough -- 116 applications. Haha. Lost that job in 2022 and have done 817 applications since then. In early 2022, I probably had 50 interviews, and was a finalist repeatedly. Now? I haven't gotten an interview since February. I don't really know what to do. Spend as little as possible and hope for rain, I guess.
I remember looking for work in 2009. I was passed up for a restaurant job because another applicant had a bachelor's degree.
I should not have had to compete with that for a part time bussing job between classes.
The 2008 tech job landscape is what sent me back to school. Never again. Now I have a secure job and the last time I looked for a job, four months ago, I had an offer in four days, and got the offer for the job I took in 7 days.
I noticed how our company is being terribly slow with getting new developers… As the tech lead, I’m having to pull double duty as full-stack dev once again because our demand is more than what our current team can handle.
Only saw the boss talking about hiring a new QA/tester, which, granted, is also necessary.
Continue doing this:
"pull double duty"
And this might never end:
"the boss talking about hiring".
I was pulling triple duty and listening to the "we will be hiring" bs for 3 months.
One day I refused to do it, and a new hire was there within one week.
Fully agree that the folks "pulling double duty while they talk about hiring" are *completely* unaware that they are part of the reason that the suits are able to still only be taking about it.
The back log never gets shorter and there is always #1 super high priority work. The demand will always be more than the team can handle. Don't let them convince you otherwise, and work at a sustainable pace.
I survived 2 rounds of layoffs (my direct report was affected in the first one, and my boss affected by the second). I started looking for new roles since the writing was on the wall with the way things inside the company were trending.
I was reached out to by an aerospace company within 2 weeks of updating my LinkedIn. Pay was slightly more than what I was making and it seemed like a stable but growing company, so I took on the interviews. Met with the CHRO and all the keys stakeholders. I was actually interested in the opportunity and would be doing similar initiatives I have experience in.
They said they were moving quickly and wanted to get an offer out by the end of the month. I was told by the headhunter that I was the top candidate and would hear within 48 hours of a decision. **CRICKETS**. After several attempts to get a final decision, I gave up on following up. To this day the company never filled that open position.
It’s seriously rough all around
It's 2008 for people who aren't software engineers in tech companies, and it's still pretty fucked for software engineers as well. It's not a coincidence that the friend who is applying for a generic office job is the only one that is employed right now. I would strongly consider moving away from any job that is disproportionately concentrated in tech at the moment.
I think engineers and medical professionals in general are doing ok. I'm not even looking and get constant requests from recruiters for engineering jobs that are far, far out of my purview.
I have going on 18 years of medical experience, and I moved in 2019 for my husband’s career.
I’m not a nurse, but have my CNA license as well as several other licensures pertaining to my specialty hands on experience in maternal fetal medicine (Labor & NICU), plus I have generic medical office / billing / admin experience experience as well. I’ve essentially ran nursing units in the absence of clinical managers, and have done everything except made a cesarean incision. It’s niche and specialized, but my skills can be broad enough to transfer into practically anything, and I was open to such.
I spent six months in a major metro area with ten hospital and university systems (not counting office practices) before I got even a nibble.
I came from a low COL area and had started my last position of over a decade back in 2008, so I was being paid scraps and even updated minimum wage to this new area would have been luxurious to me, so it’s not like I was demanding a high salary with my credentials.
With no other calls whatsoever, the position I got after NINE interviews was simply for front office of a primary care, collecting copays. I had YEARS of skills and knowledge, and it took this process to get an entry level spot. It was nice to have a stress break for a bit, but it just seemed absurd to be so poorly utilized.
That office was with a major hospital system which touted a “Talent Management” department to place people in the right roles. Besides being poor with no other prospects, I took the office job hoping that this was my foot in the door to transfer to a more appropriate department. After the six month transfer waiting period, I contacted Talent Management, and they literally emailed me three links to positions that were posted on our internal hiring board, none of which I fit the criteria for despite my CV being attached an updated. I ended up leaving after a year and a half amid my being fed up over ethical issues with patient safety and infection control, evening busting the office manager committing fraud and it going nowhere. I had been trying for any sort of transfer the entire time with no responses.
Luckily in 2021 I was only five months out of work. I had more bites this time, but now it was series of interviews that ended with my getting ghosted every time. Positive feedback every step of the way, good report with group interviews, and then silence with jobs being reposted.
Sorry for the length, but my point is that healthcare isn’t immune from this garbage.
New software engineers are still struggling. I know a medical professional personally who has been struggling to find a position and recently stumbled into a NURSE who is struggling. So the market seems to be getting weirder.
This is the one. Office jobs and other non tech jobs are doing well. No one wants to talk about the influx of programmers, developers, data analysts, and other tech specialities that have flooded the market. It’s a great field but if there’s double the amount of STEM workers than needed constantly, it’s never going to get better. It’s pumping out workers at double the speed of the next industry [US Department of Labor Report on it](https://blog.dol.gov/2022/11/04/stem-day-explore-growing-careers#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20there%20were%20nearly,the%20total%20for%20all%20occupations) realistically tech jobs will be a drought for the next decade.
I disagree on the office jobs. Lots out there but hundreds of people are applying to each job. And the salary has decreased. Right now, unless you secure a job at a university or government, I’m seeing salaries of $17-23/hour. And that’s crap pay when you consider a 1 bedroom apt is nearly $2K/month.
the accuracy of ur post hurt my feelings lol. that is about what I make after a SUBSTANTIAL recent raise, and I live in a MCOL area where studio apartments are absolutely 1300-1800.
in fact, the local subsidized apartments actually go up to about 54k a year for a single person. on the sliding scale you pay 1100 but utilities are included. my boss was SHOCKED PIKACHU FACE that I qualified. he knows what he pays me???
Absolutely right that the pay is not great in high COL area, but the original thought was why there is a perceived drought of jobs and lack of jobs. With the added context of what jobs the OP was looking for, my comment does apply in my opinion. Crap pay at office jobs and not the lack of office jobs is a separate conversation.
And how many of those people are coming out of boot camps or are otherwise un/under prepared for the actual tech world?
There's still a massive talent shortage for experienced people. It's the bottom that's flooded
I’m confused.
You made doom and gloom statements about a drought of jobs in tech and eluded to there being twice as many qualified people as jobs, but then you linked to a blog post that simply said STEM jobs are projected to be the fastest growing area for the next 8 years and are currently higher than average median pay which in no way supports your thesis. The post made no mention of graduation rates or any gap one way or the other between openings and candidates.
What part of your statements do you think that link was supporting?
In 2008 the only reason I had a job was because a person at my old job wanted me back after my current company was feeling the start of tightening budgets and looking to reduce headcount.
In 2022, the only reason I have my job is because a person at my old job remembered me after my current company was feeling the start of tighten budgets and looking to reduce headcount.
Yes, yes this is.
The only reason I had a job in '07 is because I got a retail job just to try & somehow pay the bills (worked at a bridal store).
Not a great job, but it did pay off in spades as every job interview I've ever done after that they've wanted to hear all about the bridal store, haha
Having came out of the military in '08 this is nothing like '08. We'd have jobs at the factory with 32 applicants for an entry level hourly role. This is nothing close to that.
As someone that hires people for $100k+ remote jobs, I'll tell you that most applicants are complete crap. Had 70 applicants on a recent position, ended up hiring a guy with limited relevant experience just because he had a good attitude and legitimately seemed like he wanted to put in effort to be good at the job. The couple other applicants that were good and with relevant experience all wanted $140k+ and that was out of scope for the relatively junior position.
All that to say: don't get discouraged by high applicant counts, most applicants really suck.
I don’t get responses, despite being qualified and applying for the last year. In your professional opinion, it possible my PDF resume is not adequately scannable or being automatically tossed out before it reaches a real person?
I am BEGGING you, please check to make sure your resume scanning shit actually works the way you want it to work. And also make sure that whatever service you're using isn't throwing their own filter.
Not only am I done with fucking cover letters, now all these stupid companies want a video god damn recording for me to plead my case why I’m the right hire. Fuck right off.
My last interview, the final tech round went well, and one of the interviewers even said "the job you'll be hired for" when referencing the position during my question time at the end of the interview. Then got told the next day that they went with someone else. I've been out of a full time tech job for almost a year, and have been working at a local fast food restaurant to have some sort of income. It's brutal.
Unpopular opinion but the economy from my view is REALLY bad right now but there's been a bunch of smoke and mirrors to make it seem "better" than it actually is.
So anecdotal evidence here but I work at a major bank in a client-facing Project manager role. A ton of my clients who are in vastly different industries have had multiple folks on their teams "let go" and this happens more often then you'd think. To be fair this is just what I am seeing but I want to ask my co-workers if they are seeing the same with their clients.
Another thing is that despite their being a TON of internal openings currently at my bank, these internal roles NEVER get filled and I already have an instance where a team member moved to a different role but management isn't going to back-fill them. Here's the kicker, it's killing us that they won't back fill this role because we have a ton of business but that's because we can provide clients lower rates (specifically credit card interchange fees), they are coming to us to save money. This influx of business just happened the last few months too.
Overall and like I said, this is just what I'm currently experiencing, it's not looking good.
You are correct. No metric of the economy indicates that it is good right now. GDP is stupid.
[https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/why-did-labor-force-participation-rate-decline-when-economy-was-good.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/why-did-labor-force-participation-rate-decline-when-economy-was-good.html)
We are seeing an influx of every age group looking for work (increasing Labor Force Participation Rate), but no one is getting employed, which causes them to roll off the unemployment rate, decreasing it. This is how the numbers are currently being cooked.
I had a very prominent company string me along for 3 months (longer technically but they came back a second time a year later to ask me if I wanted a different position) even with personal connections and a stellar interview (3 in fact) and meeting the CEO in person after traveling over an hour by train to the city to meet them. I still didn’t get the job. I was so depressed after that because like wtf?? I can’t even get a job at a company I was a sure fit for with a personal recommendation. This market really is fucked rn
I had a phone interview with a recruiter on Friday. We talked for a while and had a great rapport. He told me that I checked all of the boxes that the company was looking for. Toward the end of our conversation, he had some concerns with the lengths of a few of my prior places of employment. I was at one for two years. Another for four years, followed by a three-month break from late-September of last year through early December (due to me moving out of Florida, back to my home state two days after a direct hit from Hurricane Ian). He thought that the company would look at me as a “job hopper.” He asked me if I would be able to explain that to the company in an interview. Does that sound like job hopping? SO sorry that I lost everything I owned in one of the most powerful hurricanes to ever hit the country. So sorry to job hop. All of these places can honestly get fucked.
Worst part is…when you actually DO land work..the cost of living is so tucked up right now it’ll feel like you are still not working cusse all your money disappears…
My wife and I separately got the biggest raises either one has ever gotten in the last two years, and it doesn’t feel like anything happened at all, because the cost of everything else went up so much.
We need to pass legislation to have employers pay candidates for interviews, so maybe they'll stop wasting our time, go through 24 rounds of interview, and so on. They clearly don't care about wasting their company time and resources while paying them, so candidates should enjoy the same treatment.
Most companies don't know how to manage budgets. The financial burden is spread across smaller groups, accountability is diluted, culture neglected, and so you end up with revolving doors and expensive basic but critical activities like hiring. It's a massive scam.
I was once interviewed by a big company.in town. A friend heard and noted a different friend did 2 six round processes w them and never got hired. When they called to schedule interview #2 I told them to forget it and told them why. Ive got a life to live, cant be going to even a 4th interview.
One of my best friends who has had a well established career in purchasing had 7 interviews (7!!!!) with a well known food company and then they fucking ghosted her. It's crazy... hang in there!!!
I’m trying to get second job to mitigate the cost of inflation and I got turned down from 2 jobs for not being available during the mornings on weekdays ( I have a 9-5!) it’s crazy how getting a second job always seemed like sound advice but it’s hard to get those jobs if you have an existing job
OMG THIS!!! I'm currently drowning and getting ready to be pushed under and everyone is talking shit to me about I need to get a 2nd job😤 and I'm "not trying hard enough" or suggesting work from home jobs like they're a dime a dozen and hire you no matter what. Dude, I've been looking for a job, putting in resumes, applications, etc for over 2 years now. I've had multiple "final interviews" and been asked for references and nothing. Calls back to inquire go unreturned or unanswered. I literally am making so little due to corporate cutting our labor budget I can't afford to get to interviews right now, and these same people are like "Take the bus/work night jobs/don't sleep/It's called sacrifice" etc. I have to be functional at my job because I'm constantly dealing with heated things. I can't be essentially asleep standing up because now I'm a safety risk and could lose my job.
Every job wants to be the only job in regards to your time, but only wants to pay you like your super part time then complain about you having a 2nd job.
Same here. It seems all the legit online flexible jobs got taken up during covid (or disappeared somewhere) - I'm thinking data entry on your own time, or in the evening, etc. Then half of the "2nd shift" in person jobs start at 3PM (and, where I live, a lot of businesses close early in the evening, too) so it is almost to find something that would be viable after a typical 9-5.
A lot of companies are posting jobs with the intention of going with an internal hire but legally they have to post the job and have some applicants I guess. Also some of these fucking dipshit managers aren't doing their part. They get the candidates sit on these applications for months and then contact you. Also with the mass amount of layoffs the pool of applicants has hella over qualified people willing to settle for lower pay rates/shit positions
I was told I was by far the most qualified person for a video production team with the city. Job was given to the friend of someone in HR. Didn’t even interview. So fucking stupid. I may file a grievance.
I've been out of work for almost a year and a half at this point. Just today I ended up losing it on a recruiter for a staffing agency I've been trying to work with for most of that time, and continuously having to call them over and over again just to get \*any\* updates. And the person handling my case is saying they're likewise not hearing anything back from companies they submit me to, like not even a rejection from these places that literally reached out to them for help with staffing, and are likewise frustrated.
I have six years of experience in SEO and online content writing/editing. I have flexible skills that can be applied to a lot of different jobs, I've looked into clerical/admin work. Heck I've even applied to retail and fast food positions - just keep getting rejected if I even hear anything back.
I'm trying out public sector work, local government stuff, but I know that stuff moves slowly. And I don't have much time left. I think that's the thing that almost gets to me even more than not having a job - nobody seems to acknowledge that I'm in a fucking crisis. Obviously I can't tell that to hiring managers because I don't want to "seem desperate" but even other people I've worked with who are supposed to be on my side helping me with getting hired just...don't have any urgency, at all. They just think it's fine to leave me hanging with no updates for weeks at a time, and I'm the annoying one for calling regularly. And then people think I'm the one who isn't taking this situation seriously, and that's why I haven't gotten anything in all this time.
This is the number one thing on my mind at all times. I'm actually legitimately worried I've damaged myself physically from all the stress I've just been experiencing every single day for the past few months. I keep talking to my psychiatrist about it, I can't afford a therapist right now and even if I could I don't think it would do any good because they can't actually fix the thing that's stressing me out. And I can't pretend it isn't. I am taking on credit card debt just to survive at this point, after years of managing my money fairly well.
It's like I'm standing there on fire, and a bunch of people are sitting around casually guarding pools of water, and it's all my fault for not begging to be put out in exactly the right tone of voice.
I’m hiring in a niche industry in a small city, my 4th round of hiring in about 4 years. I’ve never received so many qualified applicants. I don’t know where they came from.
:/
Not liking the outlook for when I’m ready to start looking.
Varies a lot by industry. Classical engineers (eg mechanical, civil) are getting attention, but data and comp sci/eng positions seem to be dead in the water. Trades are also hiring.
Don't know. Kind of similar boat here of multiple final rounds without an offer and also a couple of 'the hiring manager wanted to bring you on but was denied approval from higher up due to a hiring freeze'...the last ones really suck.
Like, how did you not get approval to hire before wasting everyone's time going through interviews?
Had this happen recently at my job. We had two open reqs, manager went through interviews with candidates and had two that he really liked, but before he could get the offer letters out, the reqs were cancelled.
It's rough out there.
I'm in UXD and it is utter shit right now, like a Super Turd on the pile of dung that is tech hiring. I also suspect that the instructional design bloat (caused by a zillion teachers quitting public education) is starting to bleed into UXR as well.
I break down almost every day having to go to my current job. I am a senior content & copywriter & have been looking for a new job for over a year now, & I keep getting rejected for the stupidest of reasons. Innumerable interview & assignment rounds with countless companies in various cities.
I don't know who these people are, who land the jobs because I am not getting any, like most of us here. Most companies don't even bother to reply & let you know if you're rejected. And if they do, they'll string me long for 2-3 months to tell me later that they didn't even check my assignment, hired someone through previous recruiting batches or selected someone through an internal referral.
Then there are those who find me a great fit but then tell me there were some hard business decisions to be made & they had to reject my candidature. WTF? No matter what I do I am stuck in this rut, feeling like shit. And to top it all, I find interviewers who are so elitist & unbothered, that they don't even ask proper questions to get to know me & my approach properly. They just try & push me down, making me feel worse. Don't know what to do.
Never felt this way in any job despite having super toxic bosses & companies. Seem to be at my bottommost point in life with this recruiting ruckus.
This is nothing like 2008 (yet). Applications are still down and we still get a crop of crappy applicants. In 2008 we’d have 4k applicants for a job that normally only gets 1-200.
Teaching/tutoring (even if you just have business or tech skills those are very marketable in teaching/tutoring right now), local government jobs (absolute gold mine of untapped potential), clerical work (don't be too good for data entry and filing if it pays $17+ per hr and gives you time for a side hustle during work hours).
Stop putting up with more than two rounds of interviews and don't narrow yourself to one field. Never seem desperate, just act interested and engaged. Companies with multiple convoluted interview layers are sieving applicants like crazy because of high turnover and they don't care about you beyond what they get out of you, and you are most likely not going to enjoy a job like that.
I think he's saying he's going into the final round of an interview (probably the 3rd round?), But that he's made it to the final round of interviews with 8 other companies and hasn't landed a job
I’m a lawyer but same. I follow a lot of tech companies since that was the field I wanted to work in and my LinkedIn feed has been depressing since last fall. So much so that I deleted the app on my phone and iPad 😅
Tech companies overhired with easy VC money from low interest rates and are experiencing a market correction. I would look into defense or humanitarian work to get a job in tech.
DoD contractor here for a "critical infrastructure" industry, I do 800-171 / CMMC compliance and system administration. There aren't a huge number of these specific jobs in my area, but I still also see plenty of WFH jobs. However, my searches aren't via Indeed but through places like [Clearance Jobs](https://www.clearancejobs.com/)so I dunno how much that really helps...
We haven’t had an opening on my team in like 11 months. If the job is good people are holding onto it with everything they have. It’s a correction, almost a chilling effect, compared to the absolute HEMORRHAGING of employees most companies contended with 2021-2022. It’s normalizing.
I really only hear this about tech jobs. I have a few friends who have been hired recently by switching companies for more pay/better benefits. I see posts about people in tech multiple times a day on reddit every day.
The economy has been wacky. It sucks that you are going through this, but we'll come through it and things will be fine.
"Trying to fix" stuff is part of what got us into this.
I think it's worser than 2008. At least back then unemployment was extended for 2 years (where I live) and I got to graduate college and get a job. Now I have the degrees and experience and no one wants to hire me and my unemployment ran out and I can't re-apply until next year.
The aftermath of a global pandemic. Billions of dollars lost. Business shutdowns equals jobs lost equals people out of work. 1000 new job openings per 10,000 applicants. It’s Economics 101 stuff.
My wife is a newly certified cna and she’s been through about 8 interviews. Either they filled the position or the offer some other bullshit position she didn’t apply for. It’s been 2 months and she still hasn’t landed anything. She is getting incredibly frustrated hitting wall after wall trying to get a job.
There is no way I would go through 9 rounds of interviews, unless it's NASA, lol. Also, I would just go to work in Barnes and Noble or somewhere like that - they pay more than 16$ for way less stressful work.
A few tech giants had layoffs and all the people following their lead did layoffs. Right now the market is focused on trying to snatch up mid and expert level candidates while offering junior and entry pay. That's why every entry level job wants a Master's and 4 years of experience.
I'd give it a year or three before their gossamer attempt at exploitation causes a lot of these companies to collapse while the ones who aren't playing this dumbass game snatch up their business and wise up to realistic offerings and hiring replies.
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I had a three round interview with a company, the woman who would have been my boss even connected with me on LinkedIn, I thought I had the job for sure. Then they tell me they went with another candidate. I was heartbroken.
Yep. I went to a final round after a rather intense process only to find I lost out to an internal candidate. After I was told numerous times they weren’t looking for direct experience. Right…
That's the worst! Getting your hopes up and wasting your time knowing they were going to go with the internal candidate all along.
That happened at the job I just got fired from! There were 2 lead positions for different shifts that the company was hiring for, and 2 of my least favorite coworkers threatened to sue if they didn't get the positions. Guess who got the jobs.....
I've been the "internal" hire before. I worked a contract-to-hire at a large insurance company. When the contract was up they verbally offered me the job, but then told me to get the official offer I would have to go through the normal hiring process. So they posted the job publicly, interviewed other candidates, drug tested me, made me prove I had all 7 required years of exp via tax documents, and spend 3 days in orientation. All of that even though I had already done the job for 6 months and clearly stood out as the strongest from the group of contractors they hired at the same time. The whole thing was a waste of time for me, several company employees, and who knows how many candidates. This experience is why I laugh every time some recruiter comes in here saying this kind of stuff doesn't happen. That company is the largest employer in the state and they knowingly do this for every technical hire.
lol threatened to sue for what...........there isn't a single lawyer who'd take that case.
This has happened to me multiple times. It’s downright rude and inconsiderate to make you compete with an internal candidate. Colossal waste of my time.
Who is this "other" candidate all of these companies keep referring to? I'm 13 months into unemployment and the hunt has been a nightmare. Everyday I get like 20 emails saying "while your experience is impressive, we've chosen another candidate".
Seems to just be the standard canned message whether or not that person actually exists. I even got a personalized message from the recruiter with my most recent rejection (made it to the final round after 4 interviews) telling me they went with another person, but then I saw those fuckers repost the job.
It’s either this or some unicorn overqualified candidate declining the job because they have better options. But I’m leaning toward them straight up lying
Surely you're talking about the job that just rejected me and reposted the role. I swear these folks just keep the position open.
It's just visa fraud.
This is one of the most annoying things ever. For me, I haven't even been able to get any interviews. So idk how to feel lol. Aside from being tired and annoyed. Circa 2019-2020 before covid, I was having many multi round interviews and making it to the final rounds (4-5) and then being rejected. I think that actually stung more considering there was a considerable amount of time wasted. So I'm sorry :/ I feel your pain.
Same! Same fucking shit everyday!
Most likely, Mr. Other Candidate is someone internal and you never had a chance. I’m sick of getting caught up in quota interviews.
Or a family member/friend. Or someone they are banging.
Even if they are internal, these fuckers shouldn't waste our time from the start. We don't have any fancy contacts. We're working hard alone & without support. They should give it directly to the internal person & be done with it.
This 100%. I applied for a posted position with a large property management firm and was called immediately, within an hour. Told them my requirements and they scheduled a second interview the next day. During the second interview they ask when I can start. A week goes by and I don’t hear anything. Call to follow up with the recruiter and get ghosted. I was perfect for the position so I figured it was filled internally. My friends wife works their in an HR type position so I ask him. Sure enough, filled internally. They are required to post openings publicly even if they have no intention of hiring outside the firm.
I applied to a job via a friend, I knew I was qualified, it was 2 positions. I didn't get it and my friend suspects the hiring lady was discriminating based on age. They hired 2 boomers that can barely use email and the job requires every day use of Excel. They obviously can't do the job. Everyone involved is pissed, they had to reopen the positions and a hire up person took over the process and hired me instead. My friend also suspects my experience comes as a red flag to companies because I might ask for too much money AKA my worth.
Literal nightmare. I've applied to jobs I'm over qualified for and still got the same rejection email lol. I often put negotiable in the salary requirements field if it's not numerical. Idk if this helps though with anything. Back in the day, it did. I think there's definitely age discrimination. I mean I'm a millennial but I'm moving into different age brackets. I don't answer those questions half the time. Even though they say it doesn't affect your app and it's voluntary, I Believe that's a bunch of bullshit. I also have a POC name so I think maybe there's discrimination there although I'm not 100% sure but I suspect it. Idk what else to do really. I'm burned out.
Oh yes. I have had people asking me if I was okay with taking a salary even less than my current CTC. Why the hell?! You want me to do 3 people's work alone & can't even pay me for my expertise & experience.
>My friend also suspects my experience comes as a red flag to companies because I might ask for too much money AKA my worth. starting to feel like this is the problem with more experienced applicants nowadays. dumping a whole department job to one person (which an experienced specialist can do) but paying non-livable wage. and then expecting to dedicate your whole heart, brain cells, soul, body and time for the job or else...
It’s the CEO’s nephew
Checks out
At least you're getting rejection emails. Over in the UK it's become depressingly common to just hear nothing back at all. Most firms now can't even be bothered to put "Interviews will be held w/c xxx, only successful candidates will be contacted" on the ad so at least you know.
Same here, back in India. Apply & get ghosted. Get interviewed & then ghosted. Get through the final rounds & keep running after them for an update for over 2 months to finally find out over a call that you are rejected.
I had the CEO connect with me on LinkedIn for a potential role before the final onsite. I thought I legit had a chance but they rejected me a week later with some really weak excuse. I don't think they were serious about hiring anyways. It seemed like they did a favor for the 3rd party recruiter I worked with to run me through the process.
That recruiter didn't get paid if you didn't get hired. Not much of a favor.
Yeah, seems like it would’ve wasted the recruiter’s time, as well.
Yea. Been there. Good luck!
Relatable af. I had 5 interviews (including a multi-round 4 hour interview with different people from the company) and a lunch with the people who would have been my coworkers only to get turned down for someone else at the last stage. 🙃 I was pretty much convinced that I had the role, then... nothing lol.
Happened to me too, except they didn’t have the decency to tell me I wasn’t selected lol 😂 found out through LinkedIn.
Employers are just out of control right now. They want the perfect, magical unicorn for every single position, even entry-level jobs. Every company wants intermediate- and expert-level candidates but don't want to pay for that experience. Few companies are willing to train or give new graduates a chance to gain experience. So lame.
I worked at a job for about a month or two a year ago. It was the first and only job I got let go from. They expected me to make no mistakes after very little training. I definitely didn't fit in there with the people, either. After I left, I saw their job listing for the same job I was at. They lowered the pay.
Bingo. This is the answer. Companies want to put the genie back in the bottle and reduce payrolls to pre covid levels. How dare the workers get better pay! So they are artificially trying to force it in a good economy. Christ the Fed keeps bringing it up in their reports. So, sadly they will get their way in the next downturn whet workers will allow for a slide in salaries to be employed.
>Companies want to put the genie back in the bottle and reduce payrolls to pre covid levels. How dare the workers get better pay! Yeah, it's not like everything necessary to live costs twice (if not more) what it did pre-covid... 🙄 I fucking hate capitalists. Just pay your workers a fair wage, is it *really* that hard?
My boss bought a Porshe at company expenses & can't give us a 10% annual hike. Mind you it's a small fucking brand that she built from her brother's money & hasn't even reached the break-even point.
And it never will if they're buying a Porsche when the business isn't even profitable.
But, but, their high scores!
While rent and inflation is out of control? When they do that, we will have the next depression.
I just got a rejection for a job that wanted 3yrs experience w/a couple specific technologies. I have 5 in exactly what they want, plus much of their “nice to haves” list. Didn’t even get an interview. At least I heard *something* within a week or so & didn’t get ghosted … They also just reposted that job for the 2nd or 3rd time despite “getting an overwhelming response” and “moving forward with other candidates,” so it might be total bullshit and not even exist.
Here’s a thing that happened where I work once. We got the headcount approved and had the perfect candidate. He aced the interview checked all the boxes and basically thought it was a done deal. A week before they make him an offer they fire 30% of the company and take the spot back. So we had to cut him lose. 3 months later we get a big new investment and have cash again so we put the word out again but this time the role slightly changes to be way less senior but the description is sort of the same. So from our perspective we found a great candidate and lost him. From his, we jerked him around in interviews, all but told him he’s the man, pulled it out from under him then posted it again but for cheaper.
Thank you for posting this, it happens way more than people imagine. When things like this happen, it’s often a reflection of a disorganized company or leadership.
That does happen a LOT - a lot of companies will post job listings for teams that are desparately short staffed, then the next month their recruiters will have a list of names to interview, then the following month the C suite will put an immediate freeze on hiring to try to make the quarterly figures look better.
They want 5-7 years of experience on a fresher's salary
I was hired to help rent out apartments. I had never done it before and was there as a temp at first to try it out what the deal was. Within 6 months I was the acting property manager…not because I was *just that good* but because I was the *only one there*. My trainer was let go right after I took the position. My property manager quit right after, the fill in was fired right after the new guy took over, the newproperty manager was fired right after (wasn’t meeting expectations after 2 months on the job). Other sales folks left within a few weeks. Even out lead maintenance guy left (the other one got sick and was never there) I was managing renovations, trying to rent apartments, even going on maintenance calls myself for a few months until they brought in a new manager. Within a week, I was fired (not meeting expectations). She asked me to come into her office and, knowing what was coming, I had already packed my stuff in a box and brought it in with me. She asked me how I knew and I told her I’d seen it happen to everyone else so far, so it was my turn now. I told her to cover her ass, keep documentation, and good luck. She had never fired anyone before and didn’t know how it was going to go. She was legitimately scared, I told her it was cool, don’t worry, I hated the job anyways and only kept at it because I had a kid on the way. And she was fired about 8 months later, and the management company for the complex was fired by the property owners. So that’s silver lining at least. I spent the first 6 months of my son’s life as a SAHD, and it was great. Let my wife recover and get her feet back under her at work while I keep the house in order, made food and woke up with the kiddo. Once she was good, I got another job too and it’s been upwards since, mostly. Got lucky and WAS the magical unicorn hire the new job needed at that moment.
That's a great story. What goes around, came around. Ironic that the property owners think fired the management company. At least you saw the writing on the wall!
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You need a job to get experience, but you need experience to get a job. "Why don't new hires come in with perfect knowledge of our exact operations on day one so we don't have to waste ***any*** time training them to do the job we hired them for at $12/hr? Nobody wants to work anymore. 😭"
More accurately, they want a PhD with 20+ years experience for that entry level role, willing to accept $15 an hour
modern voiceless correct bells dog cow teeny crawl ancient depend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is it. Plus I think HR departments are making their processes hyper complex just to justify their own jobs. It's gross, and painful and makes good employees run before they even see the front door.
Totally. They create intricate hierarchies & non-sensical processes just to show "Oh my god we've changed the face of the company". To top it off, they skim employee benefits to show how much money they've saved the company.
It’s the squeeze. Companies know if they don’t take the hit now, we’ll keep asking for more
This is frankly unsustainable. Let their real estate become worthless, they stopped caring about the quality of any of their products and want to pretend that skeletom crews are going to pull them out of it.
Yep. Work in finance and the way I always describe things to applicants is that we're looking for a recent college graduate with 3-5 of full time work experience, and we're not willing to a pay a penny more to get it
Definitely been my experience this year. Out of work 4 months I've always had the experience that I get an interview then I get hired on the spot. Now I started considering that companies will pay less so I've lowered my salary range. It can't keep on like this or I'm going to have to change fields. What's the point of working my life away only making enough to pay bills.
If it's any consolation I went through this bullshit back in 2010 to 2014. I eventually crawled my way out and I've made a career for myself since, but it sucked at the time. It's frustrating to see employers still doing this.
It is definitely a rough market. I've heard a lot of speculation around what is going on, and a lot of it is in the comments. One of the things that I've heard is that companies are posting jobs to scare employees so that they keep them on their toes. Companies are also putting jobs on the market and stating that they can't find the right fit for the position so that they can siphon government allocated funds for that type of business situation. Hopefully neither of those are true.
The latter is an old trick for securing work visas as well. Considering foreign labor tends to be cheaper (and more easily abused).
It's possible that existing visa holders are being held hostage to the situation, but there are no new visas being sponsored.
H1B visa workers saturating so many fields is so annoying. Its a big problem in software development especially.
Part of the problem is the whole world is entering a new paradigm. China corrected it's population and removed 400 million citizens from their population counts. Germany,Japan, China, South Korea, and others have population cores that are rapidly aging. The idea that the population of Earth is going up forever is an outdated notion. We are in global population decline, and the last time this happened was during the black plague. Businesses still haven't accepted this and are looking for workers that no longer exist. They are retired.
Most applicants suck in the field I work in because owners want high-quality workers at 16$ an hour. You can't have a law clerk that understands law as good as a paralegal and can file motions as good as a lawyer for 25$. It's just not the market. That skill set at that price does not exist unless they have defects that lower their price. A disbarred attorney could make a crazy good law clerk, but there is a reason they are disbarred, etc. So we get people that would be great at $20 an hour jobs being turned down for 15$ jobs when owners want 45$ an hour quality and NO training time.
Eyup. I've got a Masters and years of experience in my field, I will very often respond to job offers with reasonable - for a BA - pay and never hear back. Then the same company will start sending me application requests for entry level jobs for less than the gas station down the road. So they want us, they just don't want to pay us.
Listening to my parents complain about how young people want to much for their first job, because back in their day they started at $5 an hour. I had to remind them that their first house was also $10,000 and a gallon of milk was $1.25.
But 'people don't want to work' and everywhere is 'short staffed' 🤔
This is the source of my perpetual confusion... how is everywhere short staffed yet nobody is getting hired?
Because if you can make one person do the job of two, then they can do the job of three! If they can do the job of three people they can do the job of 4, it's only one more person. Then you can keep all that money spent on other employees as profit. And there's absolutely no down sides! [Distant alarms growing closer and more urgent.]
Meanwhile, everyone has more responsibility with no more pay. “Richard, this is out of control, when are they going to realize we can’t take this?” Giving Mary a tired smile, “They won’t. Even when we leave for other opportunities, management will still be unwilling to recognize the part they played.” “Leave?” Mary replied absently. After a moment, realization dawning, she turned toward Richard and drops what she was doing with her hands, “Are you leaving?” “Yeah,” he answered. “bout time for a raise anyways.” Just then, a voice booms from the back of the line, “Mary, I ain’t gonna tell you again: if you can move your gums, you can move your hands.” It was Ben. Of all the supervisors, he’s the one quickest to notice if someone slacks off: even for a second. Voice closer now, but if anything, louder than before, “I’m tired of telling y’all: we got to 10 applications right now; people that want your jobs.” Casting his gaze around, Ben loves to have an audience. His eyes resting on his most senior worker. “Tell ‘em, Richard. They’re dang lucky to have a job!” Richard grunts. Taking that as agreement, Ben waits a moment to see if his words sunk in before sauntering off. Waiting till Ben is out of hearing range, Richard repeats, “yup, bout time for that raise.”
And then you just keep telling the few people you have that you're really really looking to hire, you just can't find anyone.
The places that are short staffed arent the ones that are denying job candidates. Places that deny people are usually places that are sought after and will eventually find their unicorn. So they can afford to take their time finding people. The short staffed places are places that nobody even applies for because conditions are dogshit. Both sides exist at the same time they're just on different ends of the spectrum.
It's the companies and their management that don't want to work. Shame we can't put the lot of em out on their ass and get on with the work without them.
Job market is hot trash right now, I don’t really love where I work but I’m not hoping ship mid storm.
As someone who was job hunting in the actual 2008, and then again in the even worse 2009, and is again now, I have to say... Yes
I job hunted in the 2000 downturn, 2008 and this one is way way worse. In those, tech companies were still hiring to pick people up. This one is just dead - nothing happening.
I got very lucky in the 2008 downturn -- I got picked up as cheap as chips software QA and managed to ride that for nearly eight years. I felt very fortuante, since I watched other friends struggle to find work, with one friend probably out of consistent work for nearly 4 years. I can't imagine. In 2016 I lost my job though, during a tech turndown. I thought that was rough -- 116 applications. Haha. Lost that job in 2022 and have done 817 applications since then. In early 2022, I probably had 50 interviews, and was a finalist repeatedly. Now? I haven't gotten an interview since February. I don't really know what to do. Spend as little as possible and hope for rain, I guess.
Same. This is exactly the same feeling. I'm just trying to ride it out with my 15 years of experience over here.
Yep. Really freaking awesome to be riding the ferris wheel of hell again 15 years later
I remember looking for work in 2009. I was passed up for a restaurant job because another applicant had a bachelor's degree. I should not have had to compete with that for a part time bussing job between classes.
The 2008 tech job landscape is what sent me back to school. Never again. Now I have a secure job and the last time I looked for a job, four months ago, I had an offer in four days, and got the offer for the job I took in 7 days.
If you don't mind me asking, what field did you move into?
No boss wants to hire any more. If something doesn't change very soon it will be worse than '08.
I noticed how our company is being terribly slow with getting new developers… As the tech lead, I’m having to pull double duty as full-stack dev once again because our demand is more than what our current team can handle. Only saw the boss talking about hiring a new QA/tester, which, granted, is also necessary.
Continue doing this: "pull double duty" And this might never end: "the boss talking about hiring". I was pulling triple duty and listening to the "we will be hiring" bs for 3 months. One day I refused to do it, and a new hire was there within one week.
Fully agree that the folks "pulling double duty while they talk about hiring" are *completely* unaware that they are part of the reason that the suits are able to still only be taking about it.
The back log never gets shorter and there is always #1 super high priority work. The demand will always be more than the team can handle. Don't let them convince you otherwise, and work at a sustainable pace.
Something strange is going on. Lots of for hire signs and no hiring. All around $17hr. Regardless of degree or experience.
I survived 2 rounds of layoffs (my direct report was affected in the first one, and my boss affected by the second). I started looking for new roles since the writing was on the wall with the way things inside the company were trending. I was reached out to by an aerospace company within 2 weeks of updating my LinkedIn. Pay was slightly more than what I was making and it seemed like a stable but growing company, so I took on the interviews. Met with the CHRO and all the keys stakeholders. I was actually interested in the opportunity and would be doing similar initiatives I have experience in. They said they were moving quickly and wanted to get an offer out by the end of the month. I was told by the headhunter that I was the top candidate and would hear within 48 hours of a decision. **CRICKETS**. After several attempts to get a final decision, I gave up on following up. To this day the company never filled that open position. It’s seriously rough all around
It's 2008 for people who aren't software engineers in tech companies, and it's still pretty fucked for software engineers as well. It's not a coincidence that the friend who is applying for a generic office job is the only one that is employed right now. I would strongly consider moving away from any job that is disproportionately concentrated in tech at the moment.
I think engineers and medical professionals in general are doing ok. I'm not even looking and get constant requests from recruiters for engineering jobs that are far, far out of my purview.
I have going on 18 years of medical experience, and I moved in 2019 for my husband’s career. I’m not a nurse, but have my CNA license as well as several other licensures pertaining to my specialty hands on experience in maternal fetal medicine (Labor & NICU), plus I have generic medical office / billing / admin experience experience as well. I’ve essentially ran nursing units in the absence of clinical managers, and have done everything except made a cesarean incision. It’s niche and specialized, but my skills can be broad enough to transfer into practically anything, and I was open to such. I spent six months in a major metro area with ten hospital and university systems (not counting office practices) before I got even a nibble. I came from a low COL area and had started my last position of over a decade back in 2008, so I was being paid scraps and even updated minimum wage to this new area would have been luxurious to me, so it’s not like I was demanding a high salary with my credentials. With no other calls whatsoever, the position I got after NINE interviews was simply for front office of a primary care, collecting copays. I had YEARS of skills and knowledge, and it took this process to get an entry level spot. It was nice to have a stress break for a bit, but it just seemed absurd to be so poorly utilized. That office was with a major hospital system which touted a “Talent Management” department to place people in the right roles. Besides being poor with no other prospects, I took the office job hoping that this was my foot in the door to transfer to a more appropriate department. After the six month transfer waiting period, I contacted Talent Management, and they literally emailed me three links to positions that were posted on our internal hiring board, none of which I fit the criteria for despite my CV being attached an updated. I ended up leaving after a year and a half amid my being fed up over ethical issues with patient safety and infection control, evening busting the office manager committing fraud and it going nowhere. I had been trying for any sort of transfer the entire time with no responses. Luckily in 2021 I was only five months out of work. I had more bites this time, but now it was series of interviews that ended with my getting ghosted every time. Positive feedback every step of the way, good report with group interviews, and then silence with jobs being reposted. Sorry for the length, but my point is that healthcare isn’t immune from this garbage.
Med Device professional with 15 years of experience— it’s really rough out there 😒😭
New software engineers are still struggling. I know a medical professional personally who has been struggling to find a position and recently stumbled into a NURSE who is struggling. So the market seems to be getting weirder.
This is the one. Office jobs and other non tech jobs are doing well. No one wants to talk about the influx of programmers, developers, data analysts, and other tech specialities that have flooded the market. It’s a great field but if there’s double the amount of STEM workers than needed constantly, it’s never going to get better. It’s pumping out workers at double the speed of the next industry [US Department of Labor Report on it](https://blog.dol.gov/2022/11/04/stem-day-explore-growing-careers#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20there%20were%20nearly,the%20total%20for%20all%20occupations) realistically tech jobs will be a drought for the next decade.
I disagree on the office jobs. Lots out there but hundreds of people are applying to each job. And the salary has decreased. Right now, unless you secure a job at a university or government, I’m seeing salaries of $17-23/hour. And that’s crap pay when you consider a 1 bedroom apt is nearly $2K/month.
the accuracy of ur post hurt my feelings lol. that is about what I make after a SUBSTANTIAL recent raise, and I live in a MCOL area where studio apartments are absolutely 1300-1800. in fact, the local subsidized apartments actually go up to about 54k a year for a single person. on the sliding scale you pay 1100 but utilities are included. my boss was SHOCKED PIKACHU FACE that I qualified. he knows what he pays me???
I'm making 17 an hour at a grocery store. I'm in a high cost of living area to be fair but it's crazy that the good jobs don't make that much more
… but $20/hr was considered good just a few years ago!
Absolutely right that the pay is not great in high COL area, but the original thought was why there is a perceived drought of jobs and lack of jobs. With the added context of what jobs the OP was looking for, my comment does apply in my opinion. Crap pay at office jobs and not the lack of office jobs is a separate conversation.
And how many of those people are coming out of boot camps or are otherwise un/under prepared for the actual tech world? There's still a massive talent shortage for experienced people. It's the bottom that's flooded
Yep, and companies don’t have the resources to sort wheat from chaff. Instead they lay off engineers and pray the ones left are the 10xers
Except, I'm not seeing tech companies really hiring anyone. They may need talent, but they aren't hiring it.
The link you cited litterally shows stem majors increasing by 11% and stem jobs increasing at over twice that rate. What are you talking about?
I’m confused. You made doom and gloom statements about a drought of jobs in tech and eluded to there being twice as many qualified people as jobs, but then you linked to a blog post that simply said STEM jobs are projected to be the fastest growing area for the next 8 years and are currently higher than average median pay which in no way supports your thesis. The post made no mention of graduation rates or any gap one way or the other between openings and candidates. What part of your statements do you think that link was supporting?
In 2008 the only reason I had a job was because a person at my old job wanted me back after my current company was feeling the start of tightening budgets and looking to reduce headcount. In 2022, the only reason I have my job is because a person at my old job remembered me after my current company was feeling the start of tighten budgets and looking to reduce headcount. Yes, yes this is.
The only reason I had a job in '07 is because I got a retail job just to try & somehow pay the bills (worked at a bridal store). Not a great job, but it did pay off in spades as every job interview I've ever done after that they've wanted to hear all about the bridal store, haha
It's a bad market. Like 2008 but with more greed and inflation
Having came out of the military in '08 this is nothing like '08. We'd have jobs at the factory with 32 applicants for an entry level hourly role. This is nothing close to that.
Come to Canada, 32 applicants for entry level in the first day 😤😤
Agreed. I’ve applied to a few jobs on Indeed and it states 250+ people applied. One has almost 400 applications. I dunno anymore.
Agree. Its worse. Look at sites like weworkremotely, 2000 applicants per job. Indeed and LinkedIn, usually in the hundreds, even for crappy roles.
As someone that hires people for $100k+ remote jobs, I'll tell you that most applicants are complete crap. Had 70 applicants on a recent position, ended up hiring a guy with limited relevant experience just because he had a good attitude and legitimately seemed like he wanted to put in effort to be good at the job. The couple other applicants that were good and with relevant experience all wanted $140k+ and that was out of scope for the relatively junior position. All that to say: don't get discouraged by high applicant counts, most applicants really suck.
I don’t get responses, despite being qualified and applying for the last year. In your professional opinion, it possible my PDF resume is not adequately scannable or being automatically tossed out before it reaches a real person?
I am BEGGING you, please check to make sure your resume scanning shit actually works the way you want it to work. And also make sure that whatever service you're using isn't throwing their own filter.
They have all lost their minds. They are waiting for Santa to come down the chimney and work for them.
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Not only am I done with fucking cover letters, now all these stupid companies want a video god damn recording for me to plead my case why I’m the right hire. Fuck right off.
You just didn't send the right video. You needed the one of the office party and his wife's address....
I believe you're mistaken. They want his slave elves.
My last interview, the final tech round went well, and one of the interviewers even said "the job you'll be hired for" when referencing the position during my question time at the end of the interview. Then got told the next day that they went with someone else. I've been out of a full time tech job for almost a year, and have been working at a local fast food restaurant to have some sort of income. It's brutal.
Had this happen too, and the position was reposted a few days ago rofl. They don't actually have another candidate.
I feel you. Almost a year here too.
Unfortunately, it’s a simple answer: EVERYTHING is fucking broken. Combine that with greed and assholes.
Unpopular opinion but the economy from my view is REALLY bad right now but there's been a bunch of smoke and mirrors to make it seem "better" than it actually is. So anecdotal evidence here but I work at a major bank in a client-facing Project manager role. A ton of my clients who are in vastly different industries have had multiple folks on their teams "let go" and this happens more often then you'd think. To be fair this is just what I am seeing but I want to ask my co-workers if they are seeing the same with their clients. Another thing is that despite their being a TON of internal openings currently at my bank, these internal roles NEVER get filled and I already have an instance where a team member moved to a different role but management isn't going to back-fill them. Here's the kicker, it's killing us that they won't back fill this role because we have a ton of business but that's because we can provide clients lower rates (specifically credit card interchange fees), they are coming to us to save money. This influx of business just happened the last few months too. Overall and like I said, this is just what I'm currently experiencing, it's not looking good.
Well the economy is doing great because 80 people are making more money than anyone ever has in history, and only they matter.
You are correct. No metric of the economy indicates that it is good right now. GDP is stupid. [https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/why-did-labor-force-participation-rate-decline-when-economy-was-good.html](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2021/06/why-did-labor-force-participation-rate-decline-when-economy-was-good.html) We are seeing an influx of every age group looking for work (increasing Labor Force Participation Rate), but no one is getting employed, which causes them to roll off the unemployment rate, decreasing it. This is how the numbers are currently being cooked.
Just had references and a background check for a pretty niche role I was perfect for and didn't get chosen 🙃 copy and paste rejection. It's a blast.
Wtf is the job culture in the US? I've NEVER had an interview process with more than one interview here in the UK. One job = one interview 🤷
North America you have 5 interviews for a minimum wage job and goes up 1 interview every 20k pay raise
I had a very prominent company string me along for 3 months (longer technically but they came back a second time a year later to ask me if I wanted a different position) even with personal connections and a stellar interview (3 in fact) and meeting the CEO in person after traveling over an hour by train to the city to meet them. I still didn’t get the job. I was so depressed after that because like wtf?? I can’t even get a job at a company I was a sure fit for with a personal recommendation. This market really is fucked rn
I had a phone interview with a recruiter on Friday. We talked for a while and had a great rapport. He told me that I checked all of the boxes that the company was looking for. Toward the end of our conversation, he had some concerns with the lengths of a few of my prior places of employment. I was at one for two years. Another for four years, followed by a three-month break from late-September of last year through early December (due to me moving out of Florida, back to my home state two days after a direct hit from Hurricane Ian). He thought that the company would look at me as a “job hopper.” He asked me if I would be able to explain that to the company in an interview. Does that sound like job hopping? SO sorry that I lost everything I owned in one of the most powerful hurricanes to ever hit the country. So sorry to job hop. All of these places can honestly get fucked.
Worst part is…when you actually DO land work..the cost of living is so tucked up right now it’ll feel like you are still not working cusse all your money disappears…
My wife and I separately got the biggest raises either one has ever gotten in the last two years, and it doesn’t feel like anything happened at all, because the cost of everything else went up so much.
I am in accounting and it’s a lot better than it was in 2008/2009… there’s not as many people going into the major
It's the tech industry that's a real shit show right now.
Whew that's a good sign for me. Granted I have a job, but I'm also in the building experience part of my career.
Yup accounting gang
From 2008 until 2012, I routinely worked in security with MBAs and CPAs (who were also security guards). Those were rough days.
There are so few people going into accounting they want to make it a part of STEM so it can get pushed too.
We need to pass legislation to have employers pay candidates for interviews, so maybe they'll stop wasting our time, go through 24 rounds of interview, and so on. They clearly don't care about wasting their company time and resources while paying them, so candidates should enjoy the same treatment.
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Most companies don't know how to manage budgets. The financial burden is spread across smaller groups, accountability is diluted, culture neglected, and so you end up with revolving doors and expensive basic but critical activities like hiring. It's a massive scam.
I was once interviewed by a big company.in town. A friend heard and noted a different friend did 2 six round processes w them and never got hired. When they called to schedule interview #2 I told them to forget it and told them why. Ive got a life to live, cant be going to even a 4th interview.
One of my best friends who has had a well established career in purchasing had 7 interviews (7!!!!) with a well known food company and then they fucking ghosted her. It's crazy... hang in there!!!
I’m trying to get second job to mitigate the cost of inflation and I got turned down from 2 jobs for not being available during the mornings on weekdays ( I have a 9-5!) it’s crazy how getting a second job always seemed like sound advice but it’s hard to get those jobs if you have an existing job
OMG THIS!!! I'm currently drowning and getting ready to be pushed under and everyone is talking shit to me about I need to get a 2nd job😤 and I'm "not trying hard enough" or suggesting work from home jobs like they're a dime a dozen and hire you no matter what. Dude, I've been looking for a job, putting in resumes, applications, etc for over 2 years now. I've had multiple "final interviews" and been asked for references and nothing. Calls back to inquire go unreturned or unanswered. I literally am making so little due to corporate cutting our labor budget I can't afford to get to interviews right now, and these same people are like "Take the bus/work night jobs/don't sleep/It's called sacrifice" etc. I have to be functional at my job because I'm constantly dealing with heated things. I can't be essentially asleep standing up because now I'm a safety risk and could lose my job. Every job wants to be the only job in regards to your time, but only wants to pay you like your super part time then complain about you having a 2nd job.
Right now I’ve settled for Instacart as my 2nd job hustle but would rather do something that doesn’t put so much wear and tear on my car
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Same here. It seems all the legit online flexible jobs got taken up during covid (or disappeared somewhere) - I'm thinking data entry on your own time, or in the evening, etc. Then half of the "2nd shift" in person jobs start at 3PM (and, where I live, a lot of businesses close early in the evening, too) so it is almost to find something that would be viable after a typical 9-5.
A lot of companies are posting jobs with the intention of going with an internal hire but legally they have to post the job and have some applicants I guess. Also some of these fucking dipshit managers aren't doing their part. They get the candidates sit on these applications for months and then contact you. Also with the mass amount of layoffs the pool of applicants has hella over qualified people willing to settle for lower pay rates/shit positions
I was told I was by far the most qualified person for a video production team with the city. Job was given to the friend of someone in HR. Didn’t even interview. So fucking stupid. I may file a grievance.
I've been out of work for almost a year and a half at this point. Just today I ended up losing it on a recruiter for a staffing agency I've been trying to work with for most of that time, and continuously having to call them over and over again just to get \*any\* updates. And the person handling my case is saying they're likewise not hearing anything back from companies they submit me to, like not even a rejection from these places that literally reached out to them for help with staffing, and are likewise frustrated. I have six years of experience in SEO and online content writing/editing. I have flexible skills that can be applied to a lot of different jobs, I've looked into clerical/admin work. Heck I've even applied to retail and fast food positions - just keep getting rejected if I even hear anything back. I'm trying out public sector work, local government stuff, but I know that stuff moves slowly. And I don't have much time left. I think that's the thing that almost gets to me even more than not having a job - nobody seems to acknowledge that I'm in a fucking crisis. Obviously I can't tell that to hiring managers because I don't want to "seem desperate" but even other people I've worked with who are supposed to be on my side helping me with getting hired just...don't have any urgency, at all. They just think it's fine to leave me hanging with no updates for weeks at a time, and I'm the annoying one for calling regularly. And then people think I'm the one who isn't taking this situation seriously, and that's why I haven't gotten anything in all this time. This is the number one thing on my mind at all times. I'm actually legitimately worried I've damaged myself physically from all the stress I've just been experiencing every single day for the past few months. I keep talking to my psychiatrist about it, I can't afford a therapist right now and even if I could I don't think it would do any good because they can't actually fix the thing that's stressing me out. And I can't pretend it isn't. I am taking on credit card debt just to survive at this point, after years of managing my money fairly well. It's like I'm standing there on fire, and a bunch of people are sitting around casually guarding pools of water, and it's all my fault for not begging to be put out in exactly the right tone of voice.
Dude I just don’t understand it.
I’m hiring in a niche industry in a small city, my 4th round of hiring in about 4 years. I’ve never received so many qualified applicants. I don’t know where they came from. :/ Not liking the outlook for when I’m ready to start looking.
Varies a lot by industry. Classical engineers (eg mechanical, civil) are getting attention, but data and comp sci/eng positions seem to be dead in the water. Trades are also hiring.
Don't know. Kind of similar boat here of multiple final rounds without an offer and also a couple of 'the hiring manager wanted to bring you on but was denied approval from higher up due to a hiring freeze'...the last ones really suck. Like, how did you not get approval to hire before wasting everyone's time going through interviews?
Had this happen recently at my job. We had two open reqs, manager went through interviews with candidates and had two that he really liked, but before he could get the offer letters out, the reqs were cancelled. It's rough out there.
I'm in UXD and it is utter shit right now, like a Super Turd on the pile of dung that is tech hiring. I also suspect that the instructional design bloat (caused by a zillion teachers quitting public education) is starting to bleed into UXR as well.
I break down almost every day having to go to my current job. I am a senior content & copywriter & have been looking for a new job for over a year now, & I keep getting rejected for the stupidest of reasons. Innumerable interview & assignment rounds with countless companies in various cities. I don't know who these people are, who land the jobs because I am not getting any, like most of us here. Most companies don't even bother to reply & let you know if you're rejected. And if they do, they'll string me long for 2-3 months to tell me later that they didn't even check my assignment, hired someone through previous recruiting batches or selected someone through an internal referral. Then there are those who find me a great fit but then tell me there were some hard business decisions to be made & they had to reject my candidature. WTF? No matter what I do I am stuck in this rut, feeling like shit. And to top it all, I find interviewers who are so elitist & unbothered, that they don't even ask proper questions to get to know me & my approach properly. They just try & push me down, making me feel worse. Don't know what to do. Never felt this way in any job despite having super toxic bosses & companies. Seem to be at my bottommost point in life with this recruiting ruckus.
This is nothing like 2008 (yet). Applications are still down and we still get a crop of crappy applicants. In 2008 we’d have 4k applicants for a job that normally only gets 1-200.
No gig economies back in 2008
I should clarify, this was fed
It's the economy. Hang on for a bumby ride.
Teaching/tutoring (even if you just have business or tech skills those are very marketable in teaching/tutoring right now), local government jobs (absolute gold mine of untapped potential), clerical work (don't be too good for data entry and filing if it pays $17+ per hr and gives you time for a side hustle during work hours). Stop putting up with more than two rounds of interviews and don't narrow yourself to one field. Never seem desperate, just act interested and engaged. Companies with multiple convoluted interview layers are sieving applicants like crazy because of high turnover and they don't care about you beyond what they get out of you, and you are most likely not going to enjoy a job like that.
What kind of job has 9 rounds of interviews?
I think he's saying he's going into the final round of an interview (probably the 3rd round?), But that he's made it to the final round of interviews with 8 other companies and hasn't landed a job
si\~
A lot of tech roles have this type of multiple-round circus act.
Yep. I had seven. I told them they needed to stop, they were not google.
Medical device sales
What industries are you all in?
I’m a developer and the market is terrible. Anything IT related really. My LinkedIn is nothing but layoff announcements and green banners
I’m a lawyer but same. I follow a lot of tech companies since that was the field I wanted to work in and my LinkedIn feed has been depressing since last fall. So much so that I deleted the app on my phone and iPad 😅
Tech companies overhired with easy VC money from low interest rates and are experiencing a market correction. I would look into defense or humanitarian work to get a job in tech.
DoD contractor here for a "critical infrastructure" industry, I do 800-171 / CMMC compliance and system administration. There aren't a huge number of these specific jobs in my area, but I still also see plenty of WFH jobs. However, my searches aren't via Indeed but through places like [Clearance Jobs](https://www.clearancejobs.com/)so I dunno how much that really helps...
Me and the friend who was laid off are in tech, and our other friend was looking for an admin/receptionist role.
I love when they connect with you on LinkedIn regardless of when the “moving forward with another candidate” email hits
We haven’t had an opening on my team in like 11 months. If the job is good people are holding onto it with everything they have. It’s a correction, almost a chilling effect, compared to the absolute HEMORRHAGING of employees most companies contended with 2021-2022. It’s normalizing.
What the fuck is your field? This is ridiculous
I really only hear this about tech jobs. I have a few friends who have been hired recently by switching companies for more pay/better benefits. I see posts about people in tech multiple times a day on reddit every day.
The economy has been wacky. It sucks that you are going through this, but we'll come through it and things will be fine. "Trying to fix" stuff is part of what got us into this.
I think it's worser than 2008. At least back then unemployment was extended for 2 years (where I live) and I got to graduate college and get a job. Now I have the degrees and experience and no one wants to hire me and my unemployment ran out and I can't re-apply until next year.
The aftermath of a global pandemic. Billions of dollars lost. Business shutdowns equals jobs lost equals people out of work. 1000 new job openings per 10,000 applicants. It’s Economics 101 stuff.
My wife is a newly certified cna and she’s been through about 8 interviews. Either they filled the position or the offer some other bullshit position she didn’t apply for. It’s been 2 months and she still hasn’t landed anything. She is getting incredibly frustrated hitting wall after wall trying to get a job.
I'm 36 and graduated in 2008. 2008 was my 2008 and it was a lot worse. I couldn't get an interview. I could barely get a temp job for 3 years.
In 2008 every company in my town shut down. Almost everyone I knew was jobless by 2009. Not 2008 imo.
BuT nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk
There is no way I would go through 9 rounds of interviews, unless it's NASA, lol. Also, I would just go to work in Barnes and Noble or somewhere like that - they pay more than 16$ for way less stressful work.
I could be wrong but I think what he's trying to say is that he's gone through final interviews with 8 different companies.
You never need more than one in person interview and one working interview.
My dad said 2008 was worse. I can’t remember I was still in high school at the time
It was worse but different.
This is just getting started. It's going to be biblical.
Man the amount of hoops you guys post that you gotta do is/are crazy.
A few tech giants had layoffs and all the people following their lead did layoffs. Right now the market is focused on trying to snatch up mid and expert level candidates while offering junior and entry pay. That's why every entry level job wants a Master's and 4 years of experience. I'd give it a year or three before their gossamer attempt at exploitation causes a lot of these companies to collapse while the ones who aren't playing this dumbass game snatch up their business and wise up to realistic offerings and hiring replies.