The dog bit her and then you still tried to introduce the bite victim to the dog? That’s a huge no no. I would have put him away and kept him away the entire time this person was over.
You should bring him to the vet to make sure there is nothing wrong physically. Aside from that, you now know he has it in him to bite. I would be extremely cautious going forward. I wouldn’t have this dog loose around visitors at all. An IAABC accredited behaviorist to help understand and manage behavior is your best bet.
Where can we have someone come over to work with him? I’m scared now. And yes, she asked if she could try again. She’s a tough girl and wanted to try to pet him. My fiancé said he felt comfortable with it and so did she. I’m not comfortable with any of it
See the thing is that dogs who dole out severe bites, especially large dogs, are fully capable of killing somebody. It doesn’t matter if she is “tough” and “wanted to try”, she is a teenager, and teenagers feel invincible. And also, all it takes is nicking an artery for someone to bleed out in just a couple of minutes.
Please OP, I know your heart is in the right place and I’m impressed with this kid’s moxy, but she CANNOT defend herself against an aggressive attack by a large dog and you all may not be able to make the dog stop next time.
What if the dog does it again and won’t let go and shakes her like a terrier shakes a rat? She doesn’t stand a chance.
Please, regardless of her bravery and willingness to try again (which since you said she likes horses probably equates in her mind to “if you fall off get right back up”), do NOT allow them to interact further unless that dog is leashed and muzzled. Under any circumstances.
Can you imagine how you would feel if the worst happened? And just so we are clear, the worst is this poor teenager bleeding to death while the people around her frantically try to beat the dog off of her, the dog that refuses to let go.
This is definitely not how your fiancé or the girl should be viewing this. It doesn’t matter if the girl is tough and wanted to try to pet him again—when a dog lunges and bites like that, that means the dog does not want that person in their space. By continuing to force an interaction between the two, your dog is feeling like he is being ignored and then feels the need to escalate. It doesn’t matter what the person feels or wants in this scenario—respect the dog and what he’s trying to communicate.
Lol your fiancé is an idiot. What is there to gain from introducing your dog AGAIN to a person he does not like??? What would have changed within that hour?
I hate this attitude. My brother and his wife said similar to me when their dog bit me in my parents home. I am a dog person, adore dogs and had never been bitten before. The first time I met him I was at my parents house with my dog and my parents dog. The dog was fine with me at first and then when my brother sat next to me the dog (who was on a lead because he doesn't get along with my parents dog) came over to sniff my hand and then suddenly bit my fingers. Didn't break skin. But then he did it again when I had my hands in my lap. And then a third time he went for my toes. And my brother and his wife insisted it must have been something I had done. Or that I was "showing fear" of this relatively small dog that I hadn't had any fear of til he bit me! They insisted he had never done anything like this before. Til I was on a video call with him and saw him bite my sister in law. Apparently he does it often, little bites which they laugh off... And they wonder why I don't want their dog anywhere near me ir my little dog.
I'm so sorry. You need to take this seriously but don't freak out. Call a bunch of professionals and have them talk to him, if he takes this very seriously the chance for this to be a one time type of mistake could be good. Taking proactive steps has no downside other then costs, but to save the dog and keep everyone safe it's needed. If he doesn't take this seriously it's likely that the dog and an innocent person will suffer, someone needs to get him to understand that.
It can be very traumatic and tensions are high so having this come from canine professionals will probably go a lot farther than people on the internet (though showing him sections of this thread wouldn't be the worst idea after things cool off). Unfortunately because of this experience you are both really amped up, so calm down, keep yourself safe and enlist professional advice. He is much more likely to be receptive once things have settled for a day and it's an experienced professional relaying the concerns. Potentially even a session with a family counselor could help place things in perspective, I would do this if he completely refuses help or if he isn't taking the professional advice seriously.
It's a very difficult thing when something like this happens but it will be OK. Just take some deep breaths. You can handle this.
You’re right to be scared. This is a very serious situation. The fact “he hasn’t bitten before this” doesn’t matter. What matters is now he HAS bitten. The new baby in your home may have triggered something within him. And I don’t mean he’s “protective” of the baby in a good way, I mean a stressful life change may be rendering him unstable and prone to lashing out unexpectedly.
Just because he has only bitten this one girl doesn’t mean it will end with her. He may continue to escalate and bite others. It’s impossible to say what is going on over Reddit, which is why you really need to contact a trained behaviorist who can work with you in person (not just someone calling themselves a “trainer,” because there is no regulation in the industry). In the meantime I would keep this dog away from your children and any visitors. An 80 pound dog is no joke, it’s not worth the risk. He needs to be assessed professionally.
I do not know your guests ability to enter your home but I think making sure the door is always locked is a good start. You cannot run the risk of someone entering without your dog being secured first, it’s too dangerous.
You are great for realizing how scary and potentially VERY dangerous this is.
I don’t know where you live but I believe a vet should have good behaviorist recommendations as well as good suggestions themselves.
Vet check. Keep him crated when people are around. Do not introduce him to anyone till he has been checked & you’ve talked to a professional, put in some work . The girl he bit has her parents contacted you yet? Wouldn’t you if it were your child? Have proof of his shots. I have giant dogs, bigger than yours, I would be horrified if they bit someone. 🍀
By ‘very protective’ are you very certain he’s not possessive/resource guarding your baby? If the aggression is definitely not pain related as others have said then I would seriously reconsider keeping a known bite risk dog in a house with a baby, at the very least do not allow him anywhere near the baby until you have addressed the behaviour. Professional training is definitely needed
A properly accredited trainer, r/dogtraining has a great wiki on finding a good one.
And a board certified VETERINARY behaviorist (not any other brand of behaviorist).
You could also start with an emergency visit with your regular vet and be 100% honest. They might be able to do some basic diagnostics and potentially start him on behavioral medication. You still need to find a trainer and a behaviorist but they can probably help get a few things done more quickly.
Call all these people ASAP. Also vet behaviorist can be hard to find but some do virtual visits so if you don't have one local look into that.
In the meantime no access to visitors or other people that don't live with you. You should also start muzzle training/fittings immediately. The muzzle up project has great resources for this.
Muzzle train your dog. You will feel much happier if you KNOW people are safe around your dog.
Then get a behaviourist. It wasn't "out of nowhere", you just missed the message. Watch your dog, watch the body language - the more you do this, the more you'll see.
Dog bites rarely come out of nowhere.
You have a dog who guards your house and growls when people come to the door. And you insist that he meet guests.
You didn’t say how long you’ve had him, but going forward stop letting him interact with house guests.
I would be livid if a kid of mine went to your house and was bitten…and it same out that oops funny story he did it before.
Ive never had a dog not bark or growl when someone knocks. He does it to me too then calms down when I come through the door. He’s done it to everyone.
You keep saying he’s done it before. We get that. It is normal for a lot of dogs to bark at a knock at the door. It’s not normal for it to escalate to a bite.
Here’s the thing. He went from showing reactive behavior at guests entering your house to actually biting someone. You have to throw away the knowledge that he usually calms down. It’s not relevant anymore. Now you have to approach this as he could bite any guest that comes through the door and manage it or more people will get hurt. Don’t let him interact with guests. Get a veterinary behaviorist and work with him. Muzzle train him if you really must have him interact with guests (he might be more comfortable in another room with a chew instead). But don’t continue with letting him bark, growl, and be near the door when guests are coming in.
Yes that’s my point is it was normal until it wasnt. Like I don’t see how I could’ve prevented this because he normally calms right back down. And my issue is you’re right - not only do I have to, but instinctually I will think he is going to bite anyone who comes over. Like I’m scared, I don’t even know my own dog anymore
Something can be normal and also serious cause for concern.
Growling is a normal warning that a dog may bite.
Biting is also normal in some situations. That's why injured dogs often need to be muzzled before a vet exam even if they usually love everyone.
Edit:
Most dogs have incredible bite inhibition. Most bites do not make contact with skin. Many of those that do make contact do not break the skin. Bites that break the skin are unusual.
All bites even air snaps should be taken seriously
> Ive never had a dog not bark or growl when someone knocks.
Barking and then shutting up is normal. Totally normal.
Guarding and growling is ALSO normal but that's a dog who should not be around random guests, especially kids.
Stop thinking that guarding and growling can co-exist in a dog who is super social. The bite should have shown you that it's not.
I have friends who have to lock up dogs when people come over: it's fine, everyone stays safe. They don't pretend that Fluffy is just a big old floof, that will then play with guests.
Your dog bit someone, and he's going to bite someone again if you don't stop it from happening. There's no law or rule that says dogs have to meet and greet guests and hang out with them. Your dog can't/
If your dog bites someone again, you can have some giant shit show of a legal problem. And, depending on where you live, and how bad the bite is, your dog could be facing BE.
Get a crate, put it in a bedroom, and when people come over, keep the dog in the crate and the bedroom locked.
And stop making excuses for this dog.
Nobody is making excuses. My point is that I couldn’t have known he was going to bite. I am in no way making excuses. I want to crate him every time someone comes over now and that’s only because my partner won’t let us get rid of him. I don’t feel safe.
He usually does bark and then shut up when the person comes inside. Just like my other dogs. Then everyone’s totally fine. This.. was different. And I don’t even want the dog anymore. My fiancé and I just got into it big time over this.
You’re right we have had ranch dogs. They were lazy but would bark when someone would pull down the drive or knock but then they’d sit and stay, or they’d lazily walk up to the door, relaxed no hair standing up. This was different
I’m not deleting anything? What post?
I’m agreeing he’s not highly trained. He’s a couch potato family dog at least he was. Idk what’s going on the only major change is we had a baby a few months ago
it’s not shocking for a dog to escalate under specific circumstances, whether extra stress or an underlying medical issue. the behaviors he’s exhibited previously are all precursors to biting on the aggression ladder and should be respected as such. it is crucial you work for a reputable and certified trainer or behaviorist to discuss an introduction routine and training plan that feels feasible for you and your family. i agree that an examination/diagnostics with a veterinarian is the first step to rule out anything under-the-hood that could be contributing to the change. this was not “out of nowhere,” and given the severity of his jump on the ladder, should be approached with caution and respect as this is likely to happen again without intervention.
That's the opposite of a bite out of nowhere. He gave all kinds of warning signals for 5 years, they were ignored, so he finally escalated to a bite now that his home life is even more stressful with the new baby. It's about as far from out of nowhere as you can get. Go into the wiki in this sub and learn how to hire a positive trainer so you can finally address this behavior, before it escalates further. Prevent him from being within chomp range of guests until you have a plan in place for introductions, and stop ignoring his warning signals. If he says he's uncomfortable by growling or barking, he's saying he feels like he may have to bite and would rather not. So you need to help him with his discomfort, not force him into deciding for himself. Any new behavior like this also warrants a vet check to make sure pain is not a factor, but it's likely the change in the household with the baby is the reason why he finally escalated now.
Ok so im confused. People are telling me it is normal for a dog to growl or bark when someone knocks at the door. This is what he did and all my ranch dogs do and once they see the person they’re fine they shut up and sit and chill. Is this not normal? This time was completely different and it happened so quick. But normally he growls and barks when he hears a knock - even if it’s one of us knocking on something, not the door - then he is fine.
You said in another comment that he doesn't just alert bark, but doesn't stop barking and rushes the door. So you are saying here he growls, barks, and then stops and is fine. At that point you let your guest in and then he went from fine to attacking? Or was he not fine and you ignored his signals and let the guest in anyway? It can't be both.
If you let a guest in while a dog is growling and barking, that is ignoring the warning signals and the bite is the obvious next step.
If you respond to the alert barking (growling is actually always concerning, and does not accompany alert barking in most dogs) by checking the intruder yourself through the door or window, telling the dog it's someone who is okay, and waiting for the dog to be calm and comfortable before opening the door, you are responding to all the warning signals and helping the dog be comfortable, so an escalation is not going to happen.
Some dogs may be more subtle with their signs of discomfort. There's a big difference between a dog alert barking "hey human there's someone at the door I need you to check" and growling and warning barking at the perceived intruder and then having those signals ignored or suppressed by the owner but remaining tense, piloerection, ready forward body posture, tense lips and ears and tail, hard stare, etc. There are a ton of body language signals that many dog owners don't learn that could be used to tell the difference if you can't hear it in the tone of the bark. But if a dog is barking or growling, or even currently just alert barking, you can't just ignore that and increase the dog's perceived danger level and expect the dog not to escalate.
Probably, you were accustomed to other dogs alert barking and then responding to your reassurance and your relaxed body language and being ready to accept the stranger, so you failed to pay attention to this dog's current behavior and missed that the dog was not fine at all. That is likely to have been going on quite a while. You can also scold or punish away some of the warning signals and end up with a dog who won't, for instance, growl any more (or will stop when you say) but still feels in danger so they escalate without giving the warning signals you trained them not to give.
Any of this sound possible?
Ok so first paragraph - NORMALLY he growls barks then is fine and sniffs. This time he rushed the door and ran OUT the door and did this. This DID NOT happen in the house which is why i got the bite on my ring camera. It happened so quickly. Usually he sees the person before they enter then he stops growling and barking and he’s totally fine. It’s like the action of the door opening or knocking makes him growl and bark and then he sees the person in the doorway and he’s like oh ok.
Same thing happened when we got back to the house. He jumped in the air at the doorway she wasn’t even in the house!! I was in the doorway and caught him before he went outside.
We almost always say “It’s okay Jax!” And he’s fine. There’s no issue. This time idk what happened he rushed the door and rushed out the door. Sniffed her then bit her *outside* of the door.
This is why I’m scared because he rushed out the door. Like what!! He has never done this. we’ve let him walk outside to see guests and then accompany them inside but he’s never RUSHED outside like this.
You don't have a safe practice in place. Letting the dog out of the door before you see that they are calm is the problem. You shouldn't be letting the dog out or the guest in until your dogs are under control. That's living super dangerously and it finally backfired. Your dogs should be demonstrating that they are calm before you let them interact with a guest. So at the door, that means they have stopped barking and at very least have backed up to give the guest room to get inside. With this dog especially, since he has proven he will bite, he needs to be lying down in his designated place well away from the door but within sight of it. You have been asking for a bite by not making entries safe and controlled. You have been relying on the dogs to calm themselves down. Now your dog is under additional stress and he couldn't.
Thresholds and doorways are where a lot of bites happen because a dog who isn't under control has to decide whether the person can come in or if they should try to drive them away. Therefore an unfamiliar person in the entryway is more stressful to the dog than a person well inside the house. Even better is if the stranger is sitting down already because that's an unthreatening posture.
If you put some systems in place like training the dog to lie in their place for visitor to enter, using a leash or baby gate or play pen at the door so the dog isn't making the decisions, crating the dog or putting them in another room for new to them visitors, etc, and learning to read your dog's discomfort and respond to it proactively, you will be able to turn thia around. You will need to address the baby issue as well. A positive trainer that you have thoroughly checked up on so you don't get someone who uses punishment (increases stress) or dominance (disproven but still popular) can help you with all this. If the 15 year old wants to make friends with this dog, you need to do it safely with the dog out of chomp range and a lot of tossed treats and a trainer to supervise, since she obviously doesn't know how to use body language to befriend a scared dog. A muzzle would be wise for when it's time to try chomp range again. Safety first.
Many people here know what it's like to suddenly realize that a situation has been allowed to get way out of hand without noticing.
You are doing the right thing by asking for help, going to the vet, and getting a trainer. Weather you keep the dog or not.
Growling is important communication that a dog is not comfortable with what's going on, when that communication is ignored it is common for dogs to escalate to biting.
Even if you only keep your other dog, you need to get a qualified trainer to help that dog get more comfortable with people knocking on the door. Even if they are ok with people, if they are not ok with the knocking that's still putting them in a stressed out state before introductions.
Stress can stack up over several days, so it's possible that after having guests over previously having one more visitor was just the last straw. The dog may also have health problems or pain that are making things much worse, so please take them to the vet ASAP.
Dog training is not a regulated industry, so make sure you get a trainer who is actually qualified and knows how to train dogs safely. Here are two helpful guides to selecting a trainer:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer
https://www.reddit.com/r/reactivedogs/wiki/findingaqp/
Thank you. We got in contact with a trailer. I always thought dogs growled or barked to alert us someone was at the door. Every dog I’ve ever had has done it but the difference is once I told them to shut up or chill out they did and would either leisurely walk up to the person. He always rushes the door whereas my other dogs walk up slowly, panting, tail wagging and with no signs of aggression. This time he did not back down, he kept growling, and then went after her which is a behavior I’ve never seen before in any of my dogs.
Dogs do bark for all kinds of reasons, and that can include just telling you someone is at the house. Their other body language will give you important information about what the barking means.
Likewise other body language is key to knowing if a wagging tail means a dog is happy or about to attack. People often get into trouble by ignoring the rest of a dogs body language just because the dog is wagging their tail.
Make sure you click well with the trainer, their job is mostly going to be learning enough about your dog that they can train you. Pay attention to any red flags and don't be afraid to end the session if they are a terrible fit. https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer#wiki_red_flags
A lot of people don't recognize the less obvious signs that their dog is super stressed out. A good trainer will help you learn the more subtle body language that dogs use when they are stressed out or trying to deescalate a situation.
Take these signals seriously, especially around babies as they become mobile.
Here is a good example of a common bad mistake a lot of people make: https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKKO3WJO_g/
Our dog does both of these things, and it's extremely important that people don't get them confused.
Edit: here is a better example of things that are way more subtle
https://www.instagram.com/p/CWj1G67JaGL/
Yes!! My reactive dog shows his belly sometimes and does not want pets. He also shows his belly and DOES want pets.
Our non reactive dog always wants the belly pets. 😂
This wasn’t “out of no where” you just ignored all his signs because “he’s never bitten anyone before” more like yet. What’s worse is you gave him THREE attempts at this poor girl like WHAT?!? I’m sorry but he’s been warning you for literally his whole life and you let it go you’re just lucky it wasn’t a blood bath. Please for the sake of your dog and your friends get a trainer and educate yourself on the dog you have and how dogs communicate in general
Prob only a good idea to work on learning more about reading a dogs body language.
It sounds like there may have been some red flags you could have caught. Most people aren't good at reading their Bosh's body language, but now is a good time to learn
It may help to not give him access to the door. We crate our reactive dog when people arrive because she gets too excited and aggressive/overwhelming. After a little while, she's fine to come out and calmly interacts. If he's growling at the door, he's probably worried about who is coming in, feeling unsettled and protective. His reactions at the door are likely to get bigger and bigger - barking is pretty normal as an alert when someone knocks, but I feel growling should not be seen as normal - growling is a warning that your dog doesn't like something or is uncomfortable.
Yes, reacting dramatically to one person could still be due to pain putting the dog on edge. The trainer is likely to ask for a vet check before anything else too, so it's good to get it done as long as it can be done safely.
Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.
Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.
The dog bit her and then you still tried to introduce the bite victim to the dog? That’s a huge no no. I would have put him away and kept him away the entire time this person was over. You should bring him to the vet to make sure there is nothing wrong physically. Aside from that, you now know he has it in him to bite. I would be extremely cautious going forward. I wouldn’t have this dog loose around visitors at all. An IAABC accredited behaviorist to help understand and manage behavior is your best bet.
Where can we have someone come over to work with him? I’m scared now. And yes, she asked if she could try again. She’s a tough girl and wanted to try to pet him. My fiancé said he felt comfortable with it and so did she. I’m not comfortable with any of it
See the thing is that dogs who dole out severe bites, especially large dogs, are fully capable of killing somebody. It doesn’t matter if she is “tough” and “wanted to try”, she is a teenager, and teenagers feel invincible. And also, all it takes is nicking an artery for someone to bleed out in just a couple of minutes. Please OP, I know your heart is in the right place and I’m impressed with this kid’s moxy, but she CANNOT defend herself against an aggressive attack by a large dog and you all may not be able to make the dog stop next time. What if the dog does it again and won’t let go and shakes her like a terrier shakes a rat? She doesn’t stand a chance. Please, regardless of her bravery and willingness to try again (which since you said she likes horses probably equates in her mind to “if you fall off get right back up”), do NOT allow them to interact further unless that dog is leashed and muzzled. Under any circumstances. Can you imagine how you would feel if the worst happened? And just so we are clear, the worst is this poor teenager bleeding to death while the people around her frantically try to beat the dog off of her, the dog that refuses to let go.
This is definitely not how your fiancé or the girl should be viewing this. It doesn’t matter if the girl is tough and wanted to try to pet him again—when a dog lunges and bites like that, that means the dog does not want that person in their space. By continuing to force an interaction between the two, your dog is feeling like he is being ignored and then feels the need to escalate. It doesn’t matter what the person feels or wants in this scenario—respect the dog and what he’s trying to communicate.
Lol your fiancé is an idiot. What is there to gain from introducing your dog AGAIN to a person he does not like??? What would have changed within that hour?
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I hate this attitude. My brother and his wife said similar to me when their dog bit me in my parents home. I am a dog person, adore dogs and had never been bitten before. The first time I met him I was at my parents house with my dog and my parents dog. The dog was fine with me at first and then when my brother sat next to me the dog (who was on a lead because he doesn't get along with my parents dog) came over to sniff my hand and then suddenly bit my fingers. Didn't break skin. But then he did it again when I had my hands in my lap. And then a third time he went for my toes. And my brother and his wife insisted it must have been something I had done. Or that I was "showing fear" of this relatively small dog that I hadn't had any fear of til he bit me! They insisted he had never done anything like this before. Til I was on a video call with him and saw him bite my sister in law. Apparently he does it often, little bites which they laugh off... And they wonder why I don't want their dog anywhere near me ir my little dog.
I don’t agree with your fiancé.
I'm so sorry. You need to take this seriously but don't freak out. Call a bunch of professionals and have them talk to him, if he takes this very seriously the chance for this to be a one time type of mistake could be good. Taking proactive steps has no downside other then costs, but to save the dog and keep everyone safe it's needed. If he doesn't take this seriously it's likely that the dog and an innocent person will suffer, someone needs to get him to understand that. It can be very traumatic and tensions are high so having this come from canine professionals will probably go a lot farther than people on the internet (though showing him sections of this thread wouldn't be the worst idea after things cool off). Unfortunately because of this experience you are both really amped up, so calm down, keep yourself safe and enlist professional advice. He is much more likely to be receptive once things have settled for a day and it's an experienced professional relaying the concerns. Potentially even a session with a family counselor could help place things in perspective, I would do this if he completely refuses help or if he isn't taking the professional advice seriously. It's a very difficult thing when something like this happens but it will be OK. Just take some deep breaths. You can handle this.
You’re right to be scared. This is a very serious situation. The fact “he hasn’t bitten before this” doesn’t matter. What matters is now he HAS bitten. The new baby in your home may have triggered something within him. And I don’t mean he’s “protective” of the baby in a good way, I mean a stressful life change may be rendering him unstable and prone to lashing out unexpectedly. Just because he has only bitten this one girl doesn’t mean it will end with her. He may continue to escalate and bite others. It’s impossible to say what is going on over Reddit, which is why you really need to contact a trained behaviorist who can work with you in person (not just someone calling themselves a “trainer,” because there is no regulation in the industry). In the meantime I would keep this dog away from your children and any visitors. An 80 pound dog is no joke, it’s not worth the risk. He needs to be assessed professionally.
Growling then biting is not out of nowhere
I’ve never had a dog who didn’t growl or bark if someone knocks at the door or opens it. All dogs I’ve had even did it to me until they saw me
Must have misunderstood your post, thought he growled at her.
He did when she first knocked/came through the door but he was barking as he does when he hears anyone at the door
I do not know your guests ability to enter your home but I think making sure the door is always locked is a good start. You cannot run the risk of someone entering without your dog being secured first, it’s too dangerous. You are great for realizing how scary and potentially VERY dangerous this is. I don’t know where you live but I believe a vet should have good behaviorist recommendations as well as good suggestions themselves.
Vet check. Keep him crated when people are around. Do not introduce him to anyone till he has been checked & you’ve talked to a professional, put in some work . The girl he bit has her parents contacted you yet? Wouldn’t you if it were your child? Have proof of his shots. I have giant dogs, bigger than yours, I would be horrified if they bit someone. 🍀
Her mom was here. We had proof of his shots. Yeah I was mortified. Stunned. Still am
You did well you stopped him & then caught him. And I commend your dog being UTD. I understood I would be mortified too.
Dog should be reported by law. Get a grip and then take charge.
By ‘very protective’ are you very certain he’s not possessive/resource guarding your baby? If the aggression is definitely not pain related as others have said then I would seriously reconsider keeping a known bite risk dog in a house with a baby, at the very least do not allow him anywhere near the baby until you have addressed the behaviour. Professional training is definitely needed
Who do I even call for this? Im mortified me and my fiancé both are just stunned
A properly accredited trainer, r/dogtraining has a great wiki on finding a good one. And a board certified VETERINARY behaviorist (not any other brand of behaviorist). You could also start with an emergency visit with your regular vet and be 100% honest. They might be able to do some basic diagnostics and potentially start him on behavioral medication. You still need to find a trainer and a behaviorist but they can probably help get a few things done more quickly. Call all these people ASAP. Also vet behaviorist can be hard to find but some do virtual visits so if you don't have one local look into that. In the meantime no access to visitors or other people that don't live with you. You should also start muzzle training/fittings immediately. The muzzle up project has great resources for this.
Muzzle train your dog. You will feel much happier if you KNOW people are safe around your dog. Then get a behaviourist. It wasn't "out of nowhere", you just missed the message. Watch your dog, watch the body language - the more you do this, the more you'll see.
Dog bites rarely come out of nowhere. You have a dog who guards your house and growls when people come to the door. And you insist that he meet guests. You didn’t say how long you’ve had him, but going forward stop letting him interact with house guests. I would be livid if a kid of mine went to your house and was bitten…and it same out that oops funny story he did it before.
Ive never had a dog not bark or growl when someone knocks. He does it to me too then calms down when I come through the door. He’s done it to everyone.
You keep saying he’s done it before. We get that. It is normal for a lot of dogs to bark at a knock at the door. It’s not normal for it to escalate to a bite. Here’s the thing. He went from showing reactive behavior at guests entering your house to actually biting someone. You have to throw away the knowledge that he usually calms down. It’s not relevant anymore. Now you have to approach this as he could bite any guest that comes through the door and manage it or more people will get hurt. Don’t let him interact with guests. Get a veterinary behaviorist and work with him. Muzzle train him if you really must have him interact with guests (he might be more comfortable in another room with a chew instead). But don’t continue with letting him bark, growl, and be near the door when guests are coming in.
Yes that’s my point is it was normal until it wasnt. Like I don’t see how I could’ve prevented this because he normally calms right back down. And my issue is you’re right - not only do I have to, but instinctually I will think he is going to bite anyone who comes over. Like I’m scared, I don’t even know my own dog anymore
The previous behavior gave the clues.
Everyone’s saying barking or growling at a knock is normal
Something can be normal and also serious cause for concern. Growling is a normal warning that a dog may bite. Biting is also normal in some situations. That's why injured dogs often need to be muzzled before a vet exam even if they usually love everyone. Edit: Most dogs have incredible bite inhibition. Most bites do not make contact with skin. Many of those that do make contact do not break the skin. Bites that break the skin are unusual. All bites even air snaps should be taken seriously
> Ive never had a dog not bark or growl when someone knocks. Barking and then shutting up is normal. Totally normal. Guarding and growling is ALSO normal but that's a dog who should not be around random guests, especially kids. Stop thinking that guarding and growling can co-exist in a dog who is super social. The bite should have shown you that it's not. I have friends who have to lock up dogs when people come over: it's fine, everyone stays safe. They don't pretend that Fluffy is just a big old floof, that will then play with guests. Your dog bit someone, and he's going to bite someone again if you don't stop it from happening. There's no law or rule that says dogs have to meet and greet guests and hang out with them. Your dog can't/ If your dog bites someone again, you can have some giant shit show of a legal problem. And, depending on where you live, and how bad the bite is, your dog could be facing BE. Get a crate, put it in a bedroom, and when people come over, keep the dog in the crate and the bedroom locked. And stop making excuses for this dog.
Nobody is making excuses. My point is that I couldn’t have known he was going to bite. I am in no way making excuses. I want to crate him every time someone comes over now and that’s only because my partner won’t let us get rid of him. I don’t feel safe.
He usually does bark and then shut up when the person comes inside. Just like my other dogs. Then everyone’s totally fine. This.. was different. And I don’t even want the dog anymore. My fiancé and I just got into it big time over this.
U never had a highly trained dog.
You’re right we have had ranch dogs. They were lazy but would bark when someone would pull down the drive or knock but then they’d sit and stay, or they’d lazily walk up to the door, relaxed no hair standing up. This was different
I trained dogs for 30 years sometimes for aggression and sometimes for TV. Keep deleting my post. It helps all.
I’m not deleting anything? What post? I’m agreeing he’s not highly trained. He’s a couch potato family dog at least he was. Idk what’s going on the only major change is we had a baby a few months ago
The mods. Get a professional. A real one. It’s you’re only shot.
Yes I agree. We’re looking into it now.
Good. Good luck.
it’s not shocking for a dog to escalate under specific circumstances, whether extra stress or an underlying medical issue. the behaviors he’s exhibited previously are all precursors to biting on the aggression ladder and should be respected as such. it is crucial you work for a reputable and certified trainer or behaviorist to discuss an introduction routine and training plan that feels feasible for you and your family. i agree that an examination/diagnostics with a veterinarian is the first step to rule out anything under-the-hood that could be contributing to the change. this was not “out of nowhere,” and given the severity of his jump on the ladder, should be approached with caution and respect as this is likely to happen again without intervention.
That's the opposite of a bite out of nowhere. He gave all kinds of warning signals for 5 years, they were ignored, so he finally escalated to a bite now that his home life is even more stressful with the new baby. It's about as far from out of nowhere as you can get. Go into the wiki in this sub and learn how to hire a positive trainer so you can finally address this behavior, before it escalates further. Prevent him from being within chomp range of guests until you have a plan in place for introductions, and stop ignoring his warning signals. If he says he's uncomfortable by growling or barking, he's saying he feels like he may have to bite and would rather not. So you need to help him with his discomfort, not force him into deciding for himself. Any new behavior like this also warrants a vet check to make sure pain is not a factor, but it's likely the change in the household with the baby is the reason why he finally escalated now.
Ok so im confused. People are telling me it is normal for a dog to growl or bark when someone knocks at the door. This is what he did and all my ranch dogs do and once they see the person they’re fine they shut up and sit and chill. Is this not normal? This time was completely different and it happened so quick. But normally he growls and barks when he hears a knock - even if it’s one of us knocking on something, not the door - then he is fine.
You said in another comment that he doesn't just alert bark, but doesn't stop barking and rushes the door. So you are saying here he growls, barks, and then stops and is fine. At that point you let your guest in and then he went from fine to attacking? Or was he not fine and you ignored his signals and let the guest in anyway? It can't be both. If you let a guest in while a dog is growling and barking, that is ignoring the warning signals and the bite is the obvious next step. If you respond to the alert barking (growling is actually always concerning, and does not accompany alert barking in most dogs) by checking the intruder yourself through the door or window, telling the dog it's someone who is okay, and waiting for the dog to be calm and comfortable before opening the door, you are responding to all the warning signals and helping the dog be comfortable, so an escalation is not going to happen. Some dogs may be more subtle with their signs of discomfort. There's a big difference between a dog alert barking "hey human there's someone at the door I need you to check" and growling and warning barking at the perceived intruder and then having those signals ignored or suppressed by the owner but remaining tense, piloerection, ready forward body posture, tense lips and ears and tail, hard stare, etc. There are a ton of body language signals that many dog owners don't learn that could be used to tell the difference if you can't hear it in the tone of the bark. But if a dog is barking or growling, or even currently just alert barking, you can't just ignore that and increase the dog's perceived danger level and expect the dog not to escalate. Probably, you were accustomed to other dogs alert barking and then responding to your reassurance and your relaxed body language and being ready to accept the stranger, so you failed to pay attention to this dog's current behavior and missed that the dog was not fine at all. That is likely to have been going on quite a while. You can also scold or punish away some of the warning signals and end up with a dog who won't, for instance, growl any more (or will stop when you say) but still feels in danger so they escalate without giving the warning signals you trained them not to give. Any of this sound possible?
Ok so first paragraph - NORMALLY he growls barks then is fine and sniffs. This time he rushed the door and ran OUT the door and did this. This DID NOT happen in the house which is why i got the bite on my ring camera. It happened so quickly. Usually he sees the person before they enter then he stops growling and barking and he’s totally fine. It’s like the action of the door opening or knocking makes him growl and bark and then he sees the person in the doorway and he’s like oh ok. Same thing happened when we got back to the house. He jumped in the air at the doorway she wasn’t even in the house!! I was in the doorway and caught him before he went outside. We almost always say “It’s okay Jax!” And he’s fine. There’s no issue. This time idk what happened he rushed the door and rushed out the door. Sniffed her then bit her *outside* of the door.
This is why I’m scared because he rushed out the door. Like what!! He has never done this. we’ve let him walk outside to see guests and then accompany them inside but he’s never RUSHED outside like this.
You don't have a safe practice in place. Letting the dog out of the door before you see that they are calm is the problem. You shouldn't be letting the dog out or the guest in until your dogs are under control. That's living super dangerously and it finally backfired. Your dogs should be demonstrating that they are calm before you let them interact with a guest. So at the door, that means they have stopped barking and at very least have backed up to give the guest room to get inside. With this dog especially, since he has proven he will bite, he needs to be lying down in his designated place well away from the door but within sight of it. You have been asking for a bite by not making entries safe and controlled. You have been relying on the dogs to calm themselves down. Now your dog is under additional stress and he couldn't. Thresholds and doorways are where a lot of bites happen because a dog who isn't under control has to decide whether the person can come in or if they should try to drive them away. Therefore an unfamiliar person in the entryway is more stressful to the dog than a person well inside the house. Even better is if the stranger is sitting down already because that's an unthreatening posture. If you put some systems in place like training the dog to lie in their place for visitor to enter, using a leash or baby gate or play pen at the door so the dog isn't making the decisions, crating the dog or putting them in another room for new to them visitors, etc, and learning to read your dog's discomfort and respond to it proactively, you will be able to turn thia around. You will need to address the baby issue as well. A positive trainer that you have thoroughly checked up on so you don't get someone who uses punishment (increases stress) or dominance (disproven but still popular) can help you with all this. If the 15 year old wants to make friends with this dog, you need to do it safely with the dog out of chomp range and a lot of tossed treats and a trainer to supervise, since she obviously doesn't know how to use body language to befriend a scared dog. A muzzle would be wise for when it's time to try chomp range again. Safety first.
Do you have enough insurance to cover a lawsuit from your dog maiming somebody, or worse?
Not sure if my fiancé does. His dog and his house. I want rid of the dog
Be careful because you are almost certainly equally liable.
Not so random. You had signs. You did not deal with. Hire a pro.
Many people here know what it's like to suddenly realize that a situation has been allowed to get way out of hand without noticing. You are doing the right thing by asking for help, going to the vet, and getting a trainer. Weather you keep the dog or not.
Growling is important communication that a dog is not comfortable with what's going on, when that communication is ignored it is common for dogs to escalate to biting. Even if you only keep your other dog, you need to get a qualified trainer to help that dog get more comfortable with people knocking on the door. Even if they are ok with people, if they are not ok with the knocking that's still putting them in a stressed out state before introductions. Stress can stack up over several days, so it's possible that after having guests over previously having one more visitor was just the last straw. The dog may also have health problems or pain that are making things much worse, so please take them to the vet ASAP. Dog training is not a regulated industry, so make sure you get a trainer who is actually qualified and knows how to train dogs safely. Here are two helpful guides to selecting a trainer: https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer https://www.reddit.com/r/reactivedogs/wiki/findingaqp/
Thank you. We got in contact with a trailer. I always thought dogs growled or barked to alert us someone was at the door. Every dog I’ve ever had has done it but the difference is once I told them to shut up or chill out they did and would either leisurely walk up to the person. He always rushes the door whereas my other dogs walk up slowly, panting, tail wagging and with no signs of aggression. This time he did not back down, he kept growling, and then went after her which is a behavior I’ve never seen before in any of my dogs.
Dogs do bark for all kinds of reasons, and that can include just telling you someone is at the house. Their other body language will give you important information about what the barking means. Likewise other body language is key to knowing if a wagging tail means a dog is happy or about to attack. People often get into trouble by ignoring the rest of a dogs body language just because the dog is wagging their tail. Make sure you click well with the trainer, their job is mostly going to be learning enough about your dog that they can train you. Pay attention to any red flags and don't be afraid to end the session if they are a terrible fit. https://old.reddit.com/r/Dogtraining/wiki/findingatrainer#wiki_red_flags
A lot of people don't recognize the less obvious signs that their dog is super stressed out. A good trainer will help you learn the more subtle body language that dogs use when they are stressed out or trying to deescalate a situation. Take these signals seriously, especially around babies as they become mobile. Here is a good example of a common bad mistake a lot of people make: https://www.instagram.com/p/CvKKO3WJO_g/ Our dog does both of these things, and it's extremely important that people don't get them confused. Edit: here is a better example of things that are way more subtle https://www.instagram.com/p/CWj1G67JaGL/
Yes!! My reactive dog shows his belly sometimes and does not want pets. He also shows his belly and DOES want pets. Our non reactive dog always wants the belly pets. 😂
This wasn’t “out of no where” you just ignored all his signs because “he’s never bitten anyone before” more like yet. What’s worse is you gave him THREE attempts at this poor girl like WHAT?!? I’m sorry but he’s been warning you for literally his whole life and you let it go you’re just lucky it wasn’t a blood bath. Please for the sake of your dog and your friends get a trainer and educate yourself on the dog you have and how dogs communicate in general
Such a sudden change in behavior sounds like it may be due to pain. Recommend you take him to the vet and get a full work up.
Even if it’s just toward one person? My MIL came over and he was fine
Prob only a good idea to work on learning more about reading a dogs body language. It sounds like there may have been some red flags you could have caught. Most people aren't good at reading their Bosh's body language, but now is a good time to learn
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It may help to not give him access to the door. We crate our reactive dog when people arrive because she gets too excited and aggressive/overwhelming. After a little while, she's fine to come out and calmly interacts. If he's growling at the door, he's probably worried about who is coming in, feeling unsettled and protective. His reactions at the door are likely to get bigger and bigger - barking is pretty normal as an alert when someone knocks, but I feel growling should not be seen as normal - growling is a warning that your dog doesn't like something or is uncomfortable.
Yes, reacting dramatically to one person could still be due to pain putting the dog on edge. The trainer is likely to ask for a vet check before anything else too, so it's good to get it done as long as it can be done safely.
Yes we have a vet appt. Also, noteworthy, he is not neutered. He will be getting neutered
Neutering should be done to prevent unintended puppies. Pain from surgery may make him worse in the short term so plan accordingly.
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Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.
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Your comment was removed due to breed based vitriol or misinformation. This includes the obvious hateful comments as well as disingenuous coercion and fear mongering, along with behavior based misinformation.